Does virtually every ancient culture have traditions about a great flood? - Podcast Episode 111

Welcome to the Got Questions podcast. Today's episode, I've got a special guest with me.

I'm Nick Liguori, the author of Echoes of Ararat. And this book is something that's really interesting to me because for so many years as a dedicated creationist,

I've heard that all around the world, there are other cultures who have flood accounts in their mythology or even other parts in early chapters of Genesis that closely match to varying degrees of the

Bible tells. I've always found that very interesting and I found it to be tremendous evidence for the biblical flood accounts.

So when I heard there was this book, Echoes of Ararat, a collection of over 300 flood legends from just North and South America, this is a conversation

I definitely wanted to have. So Nick, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me,

Shay. So Nick, in your research, in researching all these, what's maybe,

I mean, we have the biblical flood account. Is there anything that seems to be universally held in all the different flood accounts from myths, legends, other cultures that you've run across?

Anything that everyone seems to have? Yeah, well, we know about the existence of these flood traditions and histories recounting the flood for a long time.

Josephus refers to them. He says that the writers of barbarian histories make mention of this flood and of this arc.

And so we find it's all over the world. They match the Genesis account in so many specifics and it will vary from one part of the world to another, but they'll remember, for example, the

God sending a global flood in judgment for man's sin, forewarning a prophet or an old man and telling him build a great canoe, save your family and the animals and the construction of this great boat.

The coming flood drowning all mankind. And then that great canoe, they'll say, landing on a high mountain.

Then the old man sending a pair of birds to see, to search for a sign, is the flood coming to an end?

They remember the raven, they remember the dove, they remember the dove returning with something in its mouth. Now they'll change what it returned to instead of an olive leaf, they'll say it was a weight of grass or a branch.

But we find these elements that specifically match Genesis, even coming down and repopulating the earth and a rainbow, even the

Tower of Babel event happening afterward. So really it's the type of evidence that, wow, if Genesis is true, this is exactly what we'd expect to find all over the world.

If Genesis is not true, this is the last thing we expect to find. Yeah. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I would guess aside from the account of Noah and his family in Genesis chapter six through eight, probably the second most famous one would be the

Epic of Gilgamesh. But most people have heard of that and know the bits and pieces of that story. And obviously each tradition or myth or legend has its own cultural uniqueness to it.

And obviously to us, we would believe that all these exist because it actually happened.

And then over the course of thousands of years, each culture, as they're passing on their stories, mostly by oral tradition for centuries, if not millennia, different things crept in the story and parts of the story were lost.

But the idea that there was a global flood in response to humanity's sin, and that God selected one family by which to save humanity, that just seems so universal that I think it's evidence that it points back to something that actually happened.

And especially when most people don't think about Northern South America as also having these flood traditions,

I think that's powerful evidence because clearly for thousands of years, the

First Nation people in Northern South America were widely separated from anyone who could have communicated these stories to them.

And I think to me, that's powerful evidence. And maybe my second question to you, what's something that in your research, what surprised you the most?

Maybe an aspect of the story that really surprised you that it's maintained itself so well?

Well, it is impressive how well these tribes have preserved these traditions. Many of them don't have writing, and to varying degrees, some are better preserved than others.

But to see such similar points to the

Genesis Flood account, whether it's the old man being forewarned and told to build a great canoe, or the raven and the dove, the dove keeps coming up and they're returning with something, or they'll change it to maybe a beaver or a different bird.

But the signature of the Genesis Flood is there clearly matching. So I've been blown away,

I guess, by the volume of these. I didn't expect to find so many. And when I got started, I didn't know how strong the evidence would be.

Maybe it wouldn't be there, but Paul says we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth. So if something is true, as we investigate it, we're gonna find confirmation.

It's gonna hold up, we're gonna find evidence. If something's a lie, it's going to fall apart for examination.

So I thought maybe I'd find 75, 80 flood traditions, but here we are over 300 from the

Americas, and the rest of the world promises to have just as many. I think one thing that's been interesting to me is to see many of these tribes have traditions where, well, they had a annual memorial of the flood.

They would gather with other neighboring tribes and offer sacrifices to, they say, the great spirit, thanking him for allowing their ancestors to survive the flood, and really showing an awe and that this was something seared into their memory.

And so we find that, for example, in the Northeast, the tribes of New York had an annual ceremony.

The Mandan tribe of the Sioux language family, some others of the Sioux language family in the Northern Great Plains in the

Midwest have these annual commemorations of the flood, and then complete with memory of specific things like the dove, the great canoe.

Some of them say that the Archimandite far in the West. In Texas and other places, California, we find these annual commemorations.

So it's really interesting. So let me ask you the unapologetics related question.

In doing some research and preparing for this interview and going through your books, I ran across some who are arguing that, so with, especially

Native American First Nation for the longest time did not have anything written, they have now been so exposed to Christian missionaries for hundreds of years that these flood accounts, there's no record of them predating

Christian missionaries. So what has actually happened? Christians came, shared the gospel, the biblical story, and the

Native Americans then adapted that into their own mythology, but it actually didn't predate Christian missionaries.

How do you respond to that argument? Yeah, that's a popular objection and it just doesn't hold up.

That's a narrative that's out there, but that narrative doesn't fit the data. These, the sources are too early for too many of them.

They are, they predate not only Christian missionary and European arrival, but they predate Christ, even as we see with Josephus citing this ancient material going back into the

BC era. Ancient, we have ancient rock carvings. We have ancient writings referring to the flood from the

Grand Canyon, ancient rock carvings in Venezuela, but the Tamanacs with ancient rock carvings commemorating the flood.

And so if missionaries are actually to, the cause of these flood accounts, why don't we also find traditions of famous events from the

Bible, like the virgin birth, like the Red Sea crossing, like the cross and the resurrection of Christ?

Why is it only Genesis and these events, creation, the Garden of Eden, Tower of Babel, these events in Genesis 1 through 11 that they have memory of?

So that argument cannot account for the quality and the antiquity of the data, which that was a major reason why

I wrote this book is that the argument's been around too long and it doesn't fit the data and here's the evidence and the sources are too good.

We also have signs of the genuineness of these traditions. They have clear native material, things consistent with their core beliefs.

And then when we compare traditions within a language family, for example, within the coastal

Salish language family of the Northwest or the Algonquian language family, they're consistent.

And so if they're consistent in their flood traditions, that makes it exponentially more difficult for this to have been the product of Christian influence.

I remember we had a couple who used to be missionaries to Papua New Guinea, attended our church for a while and they're members of our small group and I just love listening to him talk about his experience.

And one of the things he talked about is they were getting to know the tribe they were with and he went in fully expecting them to have a flood as part of their mythology and this particular tribe actually didn't.

So he asked, well, tell me more about basically your creation story. And this is before he'd have any opportunity to share really anything over the

Bible with them. And while they did not have a flood account, they described something that was almost identical to the

Tower of Babel account to him. So no flood account, but they definitely had a Tower of Babel where the gods came down, confused the languages to prevent humanity from doing something that God or gods didn't want them to do.

And he was just blown away by how similar it was for this extremely remote tribe that's had no other human contact for thousands of years and yet they basically have the biblical

Tower of Babel account. So you go into that a little bit in Echoes of Errat.

I know it's primarily about the flood, but maybe a little data on how often are other aspects of the

Genesis creation account also included? Is it just the flood primarily or do they have a lot of Garden of Eden or Tower of Babel stories incorporated as well?

Yeah, the flood is the most widely preserved one, but we definitely find memories of the

Garden of Eden, of creation of Tower of Babel, even Cain and Abel, these brothers quarreling and one kills the other.

And I'll be writing on New Guinea and the Pacific in my future second volume.

We have found several flood traditions from New Guinea and that is very true that in some places we don't find the flood, but then we find the

Garden of Eden, a memory of that event or memory of the Tower of Babel. In different areas, we'll have preserved a particular element that are in certain parts of the

Americas. They sort of forgot the arc, but they remember the mountain that they remember

Noah's raven and dove or another part they'll forget the raven and dove, but they'll have very good memory of the great canoe.

And in the Southeast United States, we have a very persistent tradition of the

Tower of Babel. Also in Canada, we find a lot of Tower of Babel accounts. In the Pacific, we find a very persistent memory of creation and of creation of Adam and Eve and the woman from a rib of the man.

So because of, like you mentioned, oral preservation of these accounts, certain details were lost, but there's a core of consistency with Genesis, which is,

I think, impossible to explain other than this being a true record that we have in Genesis. So there were several of the different accounts and echoes that we were at that intrigued me.

Maybe give our audience a couple of ones that you found particularly interesting as you're doing your research and putting together a couple of the, from North or South America that you're like, wow, that really blew you away with how accurate or close to the

Bible the accounts were. Yeah, and I remember when

I was reading, I think it was the Cherokee tribe that I'm reading their traditions and I'm like, what is it?

That sounded just like the Genesis flood. What is that doing in the Cherokee Nation's history? Let me take my glasses off where you read that.

No, that's a Genesis account. What's the Genesis flood doing in the Cherokee Nation's history? And I would find that in the Apache Nation and all these tribes as I was going back to the original sources, because I really wanted to know how strong is the evidence.

And so that requires going back to the original sources, documenting it, looking at the quality of the sources. One of my favorites would be the

Wauwatai tribe though of Northern Arizona. They have, like I mentioned, these ancient rock carvings, long predating

European arrival that recount the flood and it shows eight survivors.

And then in their tradition, they say that rains fell on the earth for 45 days. The waters wiped out all people with the lone exception of an old man atop

Spirit Mountain. And then they say that a bird was sent out and on its second flight, it returned with grass in its beak to inform the man that the flood was finally coming to an end.

I like the Powhatan tribe, close to home for me.

I'm in Virginia. They say that long ago, there was an ancient flood and seven or eight people survived in a great canoe.

The Mandan tribe, they remember in their annual memorial of the flood, one of their elders acted out the role of New Monk Munkana, who was

Noah. And he came and said that he was the only man that survived the flood. He landed the great canoe on a mountain part of the

West. They refer to the turtle dove as returning with a willow branch in its beak.

I've been very amazed by the Mexican nations,

Aztecs and the Toltecs and many minor tribes of Mexico that many of them have these ancient paintings commemorating the flood and even memory of Tower of Babel.

And so we find this similar things in South America. It's interesting to me also to see some of the variations that they remember there was a flood.

They remember there was a Garden of Eden. There was a woman and something was taken from a tree, but they'll kind of mix it up.

And so they'll say that there was a serpent that tempted a woman and then a flood ensued or a fruit was taken from a tree and then a flood ensued.

And so it's fascinating how the memory of these different events is there. And at first it puzzled me, but then I saw that, wow, they remember the

Garden of Eden too. They remember creation and sometimes they mix it up. But again, the Genesis account, it really stands apart as it has all the elements to explain all these flood traditions that we find all over the world.

It truly is superior. And I believe that Noah passed down a record of a flood and Moses used that to write

Genesis. Yeah, what's most interesting to me is to think that for hundreds, if not thousands of years, these were entirely passed down through oral tradition or almost entirely.

I mean, we've all played the telephone game where you just whisper something in someone's ear and by the time it gets to the seventh or eighth person, it's barely even resembles the original story.

Yet here we have stuff being passed down over hundreds and hundreds of years. And yet it maintaining the essential details of an account that we believe based on the

Bible actually happened. And to me, that's a sign of God preserving this knowledge because it's an important foundation for them to later understand

God's plan of salvation. So maybe let's go into the Bible and the theology of it a little bit more.

Why do you think it's so important for us to believe in the

Noah flood account? And why do you think God preserved that account so universally in different cultures around the world?

Yeah, Paul says in Acts 14, that God has not left himself without witness to any nation and I believe this is part of it.

We see Paul even studying that the witness that God left in Athens at this altar, some of their quoting, some of their poets and seeing that God has left you a witness, therefore, here's the gospel and here's

Jesus. So it plays a role in confirming the gospel. I think that in terms of what does it matter, because, and I understand the question, it's like, what does it matter if it was truly a global flood?

And it's not just about weather, it's not about the meteorology, it actually is very significant in terms of that the flood gets to the, actually the integrity of scripture and of the gospel, because if we lose the

Genesis flood, if it was just a myth or a global or a local flood, then we're introducing myth into Genesis and we're probably gonna end up with myth in, if we have myth in Genesis six through nine, we're gonna have myth in Genesis three.

And also if we don't have a global flood, we don't have a geological event that can account for the fossils that show death, disease, decay, carnivory in the lowest layers.

Now the flood can account for that, but if we don't have that, then we're left with a secular view and we're left with actually sin, we're left with death before sin.

And so if we lose the global flood, it matters. We're gonna lose Adam, we're gonna lose the Garden of Eden, we're gonna lose the fall.

Paul in Romans five predicates his argument for why Jesus is the savior of the world on Adam. And of the fall, he cites or refers to Adam nine times in Romans five, he refers to him in 1

Corinthians 15. So Terry Mortensen has said very well, if we have a mythical flood, then we're gonna have a mythical Adam, we're gonna have a mythical Garden of Eden, a mythical sin, a mythical fall, a mythical Jesus offering a mythical salvation and a mythical hope.

But if Genesis, if the flood is true, then we have a true flood, we have a true Adam, a true

Garden of Eden, a true fall, a true introduction of sin, death and God's judgment and the flood attests to God's judgment.

We have a true deep personal need for a savior, for eternal life, for the atonement for our sins.

And then we have a true Jesus attested by prophecy and by the eyewitness testimony, a true savior offering such true hope and true eternal life.

So that's why it matters. There's other reasons, but the integrity of the gospel is the most important. Yeah, well said, well said.

So I know we talked a little bit before that you have a second volume that kind of echoes of error at two, where you're kind of exploring the different flood traditions from other parts of the world, hopefully come out within the next few years.

So look forward to that one as well. Maybe can you give us a sneak preview? What's a couple of flood accounts that you found in other parts of the world that you found particularly interesting?

I mentioned that in the Pacific, specifically the Polynesian islands, there is a well -preserved memory of the creation of Adam and Eve, even as far as Easter Island, the most remote island in the world.

I've been amazed by China. China has a very rather well -preserved memory of not only the flood, but especially creation in the

Garden of Eden. That'll be coming forth. I've been amazed that Vietnam, every tribe from Vietnam has a memory of the flood.

Taiwan, I'm working on Taiwan right now. Again, specific, you see the signature of the

Genesis flood in these tribes of accounts. And so I think this has value for missionaries too, to see that we have something, their history, their nation's history has a witness to the

Bible that can open hearts and minds to the message of Jesus in the way that we see Paul doing in Acts 14 and 17.

So Nick, this has been an amazing discussion and again, we'll include links to where you can learn more about Nick and his research.

And of course, where you can purchase Echoes of Ararat. It's an intriguing read. And Nick, let me just thank you for all the research you've done.

I know it's been a lot of work. So it's been fascinating work, but I'm in a sense glad God gave you this assignment rather than me, because I can't imagine the amount of time you've spent putting all these accounts together and then compiling it in a book in the way you did.

So thank you for that and thank you for your time today. It's been a very interesting discussion.

Thank you very much, Jay. Thank you for everything that you do at Got Questions. So this has been the Got Questions podcast with Nick Liguori, the author of Echoes of Ararat.