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Open Air Theology

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And we're live! Welcome everybody to Trailer Park Theology. My name is

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Jeff. I'm the pastor of Covenant Reform Baptist Church in Tallahoma, Tennessee.

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I also own a Bible rebinding business, Post Tender Bro Slux Bible Rebinding, and I'm here with my good friend

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Brayden. Brayden, introduce yourself, brother. Yeah, so Brayden, that's my first name. I have the fortunate privilege of being a pastor for a church named

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Valley Baptist Church in Hagerman, Idaho, where I'm a bivocational pastor at, and I also have a

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YouTube channel called I have a YouTube channel called Reformed Ex -Mormon. I'm ex -LDS myself after being

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LDS for 19 years. God saved me from that. Saved me from my sin, but saved me from that as well.

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And from there, I'm also a full -time firefighter where I live, and so I have the privilege of doing that as my day work, if that makes sense.

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Man, I just think that's, you know, excellent that you do that for a living.

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Me and my wife, we've been watching Chicago Fire. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

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I know it's, it is what it is, but it's so realistic. Yeah, but it's actually a really good pastime show.

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I mean, you know, it's just something for me and her to watch, but I can remember I was in kindergarten and at this time we had a fire truck and stuff like that, like they come to visit our school and I can remember leaving kindergarten thinking, man,

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I would really like to be a firefighter. And they put me in, like I was, you know, like they put the, like I stepped into the boots and, you know, and you try to walk in them as a kindergarten.

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I can remember falling. These boots were so heavy. Yeah, the funny part about that is

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I still fall in my boots today. Yeah, well, I can see that. I can see that. With my benign vertigo, my positional vertigo,

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I can really see myself falling in those boots. Yeah.

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No, it's a privilege. It is a great job to have to be able to support my family with.

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It's awesome to be able to go from one place and it's attempting to save lives and property to then go behind the pulpit and preach salvation and security in Christ.

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So it's a great reflection in both work spheres. very cool, man.

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So what are we talking about today? Yeah, so we, the last time that I was on this late night, a little

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Facebook live video that we're doing on your YouTube channel as well. We were in Daniel chapter two, just kind of going through some of the different views that different eschatologies would have, trying to be fair to everything.

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You are a partial preterist, non -theonomist post -millennialist, right?

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I'm an optimistic, partial preterist. There you go. For short, we would call it a post -mill, but I'm going to be honest with you, man.

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I have so much trouble with all of the positions. Yeah. But it's just, so it's easier for me to just, if I had to hold on to one that, you know, where I could say it would be post -mill, but then

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I would have to say, but I don't want to, you know, I have to give caveats and stuff.

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Yeah, for sure. And I think a lot of the eschatology positions, like I think, I don't know, every time

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I talk to somebody on eschatology, they usually have something that is sub -defining underneath that, that they try to hold to.

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So I totally understand that. But I'm on the all -mill side. And so it was really fun last time that we got to go through Daniel chapter two and see a lot of our similarities and then start to kind of open up where we would start disagreeing and whatnot.

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And so what we're planning on doing tonight again is going through Daniel chapter nine, working our way through that, maybe being fair like we were last time to talk about what other views that we are understanding of what other views would bring to this text.

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And then what we can, what we wrap it, what, what, what we pull from that text. So. And I think a real good thing about it is that people can click on here.

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They can see two people, two Christians who have a different view of eschatology, but very similar also in a way.

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And yeah, and we can have a conversation. We can agree and we can disagree.

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And there's in there, you know, I'm not kicking you out the kingdom. You're not kicking me out the kingdom. You know, and like, and like we really, a fellowship, we text each other throughout the week.

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We, yeah. And we, we, we, we talk to each other on the phone. We, we love each other. You know?

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Yeah. And we're not saying that these issues are something that you sweep under the rug. They're, they're, they're serious.

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They determine how you live in the faith. At the same time, we know that these are not issues where we, uh, would throw one another out the kingdom or, or, you know,

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I could serve in your church. You could serve in my church. If you were ever in Tallahoma, Tennessee, you would be welcome to preach in my pulpit.

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I mean, I mean, we're, we're, you know, we're brothers and eschatology is not separating us.

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Yep. And so I think that's good for people to see because you really don't see that a lot, you know, eschatology is one of them things where, oh, if you don't agree with me, we're going to put on the boxing gloves and go at it.

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Yeah. People really hold tight to those views. It seems like more so than some other areas it seems like.

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Uh, and so you do see a lot of that kind of division of, uh, not all the times fellowship, but sometimes very often friendship within a fellowship.

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And so, yeah, it is a blessing and those same feelings that you would have towards me coming and preaching behind your pulpit, which is, that's an honor to be told something like that.

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That would be totally reciprocated on even on a Sunday where we were going through eschatology. I would totally welcome a post mill view, even being preached behind the pulpit because it's, it's within Orthodox and it's, it's

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God glorifying, I think. So here's the thing, like, like if someone was coming to get, which a good friend of mine, a

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Presbyterian friend of mine, who's an all male, he said this to me, he, he said, if someone was going to, he's an all male.

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He said, if I was with you and someone was trying to come against post mill and a horrible way, he said,

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I would stand side by side with you and defend postman. Oh yeah, for sure. And the same with,

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I would for him with all male and with you. I mean, because I do think it's a legit position. You know, do

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I see some, some hose that I think's in it? Yeah. But I see hose and post mill and it's what

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I claim. And that, then that's like, if somebody was coming at you saying that your views heretical, that it's, it's outside of the

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Christian faith to believe in those things. That's where it just crosses the line of being a not okay conversation.

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And even with my dispensational pre -millennialist fans or my historic pre -millennialist friends, I would still jump alongside of those people and defend them if somebody was coming at them in that, in those, in those meetings.

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And, and I think that's, I think that's what I hope this kind of a little live show helps help show.

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I really do. Yeah, me too, man. Absolutely. So in Daniel nine.

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Yeah. So like the primary text that we're going to be looking at is the 70 weeks.

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Now, and we'll probably allude to the context and stuff like that, but the, the primary text where the, the disagreement between the different eschatological views comes from versus 24 through 27.

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This would be called the 70 weeks. A lot of people would, would, would know it as the 70 weeks of Daniel.

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And so if you want, we'll just read, read it first.

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Yeah. So you have a NASB, correct? Yes. Yep.

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I do. I have to mail you an ESB for this. I got an

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ESB on hand. I can grab them. I'm just messing with you. I'm pulling away. I just don't have any

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NASBs. You don't have any NASBs on you? What? Man, I'm an ESB only.

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Oh, dang dude. I'm for life. I do have a, a little

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LSB New Testament, a rebound, yeah, but it doesn't have

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Daniel and that's probably the closest to the, right. But all my Bibles, like I have a

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KJV that I keep on hand and a net, but the ESV is so similar to like accuracy, my opinion to the

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NASB. Oh yeah. I just don't have one around man. I understand. I get it.

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I get it. As long as you're not a King James only, that's, you can be an

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ESB only. No, I'm not an only, but I am a preferred. That's for sure. For sure.

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I'm a preferred. I love the ESB man. It's, it's, it's just, it still has the, it has some of the poetry of the

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King James, but like it's, it's availability and, and it comes in like just the best, in my opinion, text blocks, like, you know, depending on like, if you like verse by verse, there's verse by verse, if you like paragraphs, the paragraphs form.

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Yep. And it's just like, you know, just really nice Bibles. Like it crossways doing a really good job at, at pushing nice text box.

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It's a seventh grade reading level and it still has that, that poetry of the King James.

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And it's, it's by far easier, the easier of the two to read for sure. ESB over NASB. I, I don't know about you.

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I can't stand paragraph blocks though. I, I, I like paragraphs to read.

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I read the paragraph, but I can't preach from a paragraph. So I preach from a, a

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Topaz and saw a Topaz. I have this Navy Topaz right here that I preach from and it's, it's verse by verse.

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Okay. I don't know if you can see it. Oh, it's too bright for me. Is it done? There it is. Okay, nice.

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All right. So the references on the sides. Cool. Yeah. Cool. Cool. So, but I, I, I read from a, a, a, so I have the

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Omega, but I also have the creeds and confessions and it's the same outline, same text block, basically.

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I, I wish that's one thing that my Bible does not have it. I have the, a, a keyword, um,

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Hebrew and Greek strong's concordance, uh, with a reference. And I don't like the commentary in mind, but if there's a commentary

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Bible too, but the, uh, the one thing I'm sad that it doesn't have is this creeds and confessions, even though they're, those aren't scripture, but I love,

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I love going to the creeds and confessions to see what early church was thinking. So I'm sad that that's not after maps in my

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Bible, unfortunately. So, well, I got a bunch of them here, brother. I'll send you one. All right.

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Well, I guess, I guess I'll read it. Okay. And so I have the better translation and it was coming.

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All right. So I'll read it and then we'll, and we'll talk about it. Yeah. Sounds good. All right.

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Beginning in verse 24 of Daniel chapter nine. 70 weeks are declared about your people and your holy city to finish transgressions, to put an end to sin, to atone for iniquity, to bring about everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and profit, and to atone for, and to anoint a most holy place, known for certain and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and rebuild

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Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks.

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Then for 62 weeks, it shall be built again with square mold, but in trouble times, and after 62 weeks and anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing.

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And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy this city and the sanctuary.

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It's in shall come with the flood and to the end, there shall be war.

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Desolations are decree, and he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week.

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And for half the week, he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.

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And on the wing of an abomination shall come one who makes desolate until the decree and is poured out on the desolator.

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That says the word God right there. Good stuff. So did you want to try to break this up kind of like last time,

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Jeff, with maybe giving grace towards our premillennialist friends, maybe trying to approach it first like that.

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And then I think we're going to agree on a lot of this text again. So I think we can.

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I'm pretty sure there's going to be some things that we might disagree with, but I don't know, like I don't know the full millennial position.

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So I'm sure, you know. But yeah, like if you want to kind of introduce

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Daniel 70 weeks and we can go back and forth, like,

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I don't know the historical pre would hold to what they would hold to this, but I do know pretty sure what the because I was a dispensation at one time, right.

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They would hold to this, especially a premillennial, I mean, a premill, pre -trib.

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Yep. Excuse me, dispensational. So if you want to kick it off and we'll just kind of go back and forth.

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Yeah. And I might need your help jumping in here with the dispensational premill view, just because my background comes from an

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LDS non -orthodox dispensational premill view. And so I don't have a full grasp of what the dispensational premill truly would say.

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Do you have an idea of what the historical pre? Neither the historic or the dispensational.

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I do have an idea of both of them to a certain degree, but not enough to speak educated enough,

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I would say on. So yeah, so just going through this, I know that they would break up these 70 weeks talking about the 62 weeks would have been, well, the portion that's missing there, those seven weeks that is missing from that text, they would put that in a future sense, right?

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Talking about a seven -year tribulation and that the seven -year tribulation would be broken up into three and a half years and three and a half years.

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And that's when the rise of the antichrist would happen, him being wounded and resurrecting and so on and so forth.

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They would be pulling a lot of these ideas out of Revelation chapter 15 and 16 and just looking at what that looks like.

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As far as the, they would also, another view that they would do with this, they would bring this to speaking of the 62 weeks that they speak of, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the 62 weeks they would say is fulfilled in when

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Christ entered into Jerusalem upon the back of the donkey, that that triumphal entry was a fulfillment or that was when that happened, right?

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I think they would say that 69 weeks have been fulfilled. That's what it is. The 70th week, the last week, and for anyone that doesn't understand, a week is seven years.

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If you go back to, and I'm reading it in Genesis now, whenever Jacob works for his mother's brother

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Laban for his daughters. And so he works, it says for one week, which is seven years for each daughter.

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So he worked seven years for Rachel, but he ends up getting Leah and then he works another seven years for Rachel.

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And it's called one week. So when it says one week, it's seven years.

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And so the idea here in this, just to give some context. So Israel was told to keep the law and live in the land, earthly promises, earthly blessings.

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Break the law and you will be removed from the land. And one of the laws that they broke was the

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Sabbath year rest. So every, they were to work the ground for six years in the seventh year, they were not to work the ground.

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And they broke this for 490 years, which is 70 weeks.

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So God sends them into captivity for 70 years.

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Okay. One year for every week. Now this prophecy is for 70 weeks, 490 years.

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In my opinion, he's saying that he's going to be dealing with the people, his earthly kingdom people for 490 years.

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And this kind of gives it the flow of it. And so the Jews, I mean,

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I'm sorry, not the Jews, but the dispensational premillennial ho to the fact that 69 of the weeks have already taken place.

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But that the 70th week, the last and final week has not taken place.

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So this will take place if you're a premillennial dispensation that hosts a premillennial,

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I mean the pre -tribulational rapture, that this week will take place when the church leaves the earth because God is coming to deal with his people, the

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Jews. I mean, like if you notice what it says, it says 70 weeks are declared about your people.

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So who is he talking to? He's speaking to Daniel. So who is his people?

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Well, it's the Jews and your holy city. Well, what's their holy city?

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Jerusalem. And so it's very clear that he's speaking to Daniel about his people, the

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Jews about a certain place, which is Jerusalem. And so the dispensational would say that that's all in the future sense that that fulfillment of that 70 weeks is going to be after the second coming of Christ, right?

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Yeah. And to harken back to Daniel chapter two, remember when we started going through the different metals of the statue and then we had to, the legs of iron and then the feet were iron mingled with clay.

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And I brought out that picture and I showed that that picture didn't have the feet. And I used to have a thing where it would separate and right there where it separates, this is where they bring in Daniel's 70th week.

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So the feet of iron mingled with clay, this would be the 70th week of Daniel.

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And so God comes back and he deals with the Jews. Why? Because he's talking about your people.

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He's not dealing with the church here. So the church must have been raptured. And so they would see a parentheses, a gap.

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And so far it's been a 2000, well, close to 2000 year gap.

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I don't see a gap in the text. No. I come in from this with virgin eyes as much as you possibly can, right?

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Without trying to bring my presuppositions to this, when I first read this after being a Christian, I haven't, and I still have not ever seen that kind of gap language here in this text.

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And I just haven't seen it. And I, unless you or someone else would have explained it to me, just like how you just did.

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I just, I don't, I don't see where that's at in this text. And so, yeah. Now I used to believe it and I used to teach it, but not because it was in the text, but because this is what was handed down to me traditionally.

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And this is why I tell you now, like, I don't believe anything anyone tells me, like, you know, unless I study it for myself, right.

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I mean, because I bought into a lie, right. You know, and when it came to eschatology, right.

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And so it, you know, again, I was at a conference and someone asked me, was

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I an abolitionist? And I said, well, no, because I don't know everything that it holds to.

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Right. I said, if you're asking me, am I against abortion? Yes. Yeah. Do I believe it should end?

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Yes. But am I a part of this movement? I don't know. Right. I don't have all the information of what they hold to.

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So I don't want to just say that I'm with something, even though I'm against what they're against.

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Yep. Like, I'm not just following the crowd to follow the crowd. I'm not going to be something because someone that I highly respect is a part of something.

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I want to study it for myself to make sure that this is what I believe the scriptures teach.

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Right. Absolutely. Amen. I think that's the approach that we should have to anything.

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If we, uh, we shouldn't attach our name to something unless we fully have sought it out and understand what we're attaching our name to.

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Right. So we're called to be brands. We're called to search the scriptures. We're called to, to take an honest look at, at, at the world around us and to, you know, to walk.

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Yeah. So what do we want us to maybe start breaking this down from an all mill and post mill perspective now, or is there anything else that we should say to a dispensational pre -mill?

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I think that as we get through it, as we walk through it, we'll kind of see, uh, their perspective.

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I know, like, as I walk through my perspective, I'll kind of outline what comes to my mind.

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Cool. That would be helpful. What I might've used to believe. That would be helpful for me. So maybe what

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I'll start out with saying is so, so Daniel is, is coming about while in captivity to Babylon, that Jerusalem has been taking captive.

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Uh, he is one of those captive captivities, uh, that are in here and he's praying.

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And this is an answer to his prayer, uh, that he's, he's, he's talking about. And so in his prayer, he asks, uh, because the 70, 70 weeks have been promised that there'll be in captivity for, right.

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And that's been something that's been prophesied throughout many different prophets. And Daniel's now living that captivity.

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And so he's praying that asking in verse two, he says, in the first year of his reign,

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I, Daniel observed in the books, the numbers of the years, which was revealed as the word of the

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Lord to Jeremiah, the prophet for the completion of the desolation of Jerusalem, namely 70 years.

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And so my approach, I think one of the things that I do not apply versus 24 on to this, the triumphal entry,

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I apply those to Jesus's baptism. Um, and there's some reasoning for doing that in my personal opinion.

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I don't know where you would land on that, Jeff, but, um, part the way I would approach this text first is that if it was truly 70 years, just a timeframe that God has given and Daniel being this prophet of God knew that it was going to be 70 years.

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I find it strange that Daniel would be asking this prayer in the first place that about when is the completion of the 70 years going to be complete?

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Because if it's 70 years, that's not a, that's not a question. That's a, it started this day, 70 years later, it's this day.

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There's no question that needs to be asked in there. And so my opinion, when I come to this text is that, uh, the 70 years, the number seven, uh, with this tribulation, this, this, uh, captivity that's going on with Jerusalem is, is significant.

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And there's when we see seven throughout the Bible, I would argue that there's a theological implication that's behind the use of that number.

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And so I think what 70 is getting out in here is for the completeness of a, the completeness of the, the desolation of Jerusalem.

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That's what it says here in verse two, it's the completion of the desolation. So that could be 78 years. That could have been 69 years.

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It could have been however many years it needed to be, but 70 was the, was the way that God was using it to describe the fullness of that being done.

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Just like how, um, and we'll get into it. I'm sure a little bit more, but seven times seven and these, these year of the year of Jubilee and all these kinds of things that come out throughout the old, uh, old

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Testament, this, the seven has a, as a, as a huge, significant, uh, theological implication,

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I would say. And so I think that Daniel here understands that it's not truly going to be just a 70 year period.

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And so that's why he's asking, when is this going to be done? When is the completion of this desolation going to be finished?

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And I think that makes more sense approaching this text is that it's not going to be, uh, literally seven years, 70 years, uh, for Daniel to be in this, this, this desolation period.

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What have you ever, have you, what's your approach with this? Do you think it has to be 70 years that he's in desolation or would you?

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Well, well, uh, so I think that it's significant because, um, they're getting a year for every year they disobeyed.

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Yeah. And so they disobeyed for 490 years. And so they get 70 years, a year for every year that they disobeyed, um, a year for every seven that they disobeyed.

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Um, and I think that they're in a desolation, so a desolation. So like, if you just go back to, um, uh, nine verse one, one and two in the first, in the first year of, uh, of Daris, uh, the son of, uh, uh, uh,

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I always have trouble with that name. That's why I didn't read verse one. By descent of me,

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Amid, who was made King over the realm of the Chaldeans right here.

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It says in the first year, I, Daniel perceived in the book and the numbers, you know, like you just read it, but it speaks about, uh,

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I perceived in the books of the number of years, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah, the prophet must pass before the end of the desolation.

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So this desolation, like if you jump over to verse 17 and 18,

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I believe, uh, let me find it. Yeah.

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Therefore now, therefore, Oh God, listen to the prayer of your servant and his plea for mercy.

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And for your own sake, Oh Lord, make your face shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate.

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All right. Verse 18. Oh my God, incline your ear in here, open your eyes and see our desolation and the city that is called by your name.

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So a desolation is basically whenever the city of Jerusalem is in ruined, the people have been taken out.

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And so they're in the desolation. They were Babylon, the Babylonians, they came in, they captured the children of Israel.

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Now I believe that that desolation ended whenever they were allowed to go back and build the city.

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Yeah. But then I believe that another desolation is prophesied in the 70 weeks.

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I agree. Yep. Does that make sense? Yep. Which I I'm assuming we're going to land on the same page on that area for sure.

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Yeah. So, I hope so too. So, but my, so my reasoning for bringing up the symbolic nature of this is that in, in, uh, in where is it at in, um,

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Oh, I'm looking real fast. Second Chronicles 36, 22. Um, let me turn that real fast.

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Second Chronicles 36 verse 20 and I'll read verses 21, uh, through 23, but it says in here, it says to fulfill and I'll let you wait.

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I'll wait until you can get there. Tell me again. Second Chronicles. What? Yep. Second Chronicles, uh, 36, 21, uh, through 23.

30:28

All right. So it says in here to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah. So it's speaking about the same prophecy that, that Daniel's dealing with in his prayer, right?

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And Daniel nine until the land had enjoyed its Sabbaths. That's all Sabbath year rest.

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Yep. Exactly. Sabbaths and all the days of the desolation, it kept Sabbath until 70 years were complete.

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Now in the first year of Cyrus, King of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the

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Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus, King of Persia, so that he sent a proclamation through his kingdom and also put it in writing saying, thus says

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Cyrus, King of Persia, the Lord, the God of heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and has appointed me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

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Whoever there is among you, all his people may the Lord, his God be with him and let him go up.

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And so I, this might differ from a, from a dispensational pre -millennialist, what

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I hold to, I think Cyrus is the one that offered that decree. Whereas I think what's the person's name that they would say that, uh,

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I, because the issue is, is that if you do the math out, it doesn't fit with this, the triumphal entry of Jesus.

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When you do the exact math of years for when Cyrus actually did the decree for it to fit in line with when

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Jesus entered into Jerusalem. I did believe it was three, three different Kings made a decree.

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Yeah. Yeah. And so I go by the, uh, the decree of, uh, let me see.

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Uh, I can't, I'm not as educated on this as I should be right now to, to answer where I would go to exactly, but, uh, yeah, so I would say, uh, the, the word to restore and rebuild

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Jerusalem, I believe was given by King God exert season four 57 BC.

32:38

Okay. And, um, although it was separated in, I mean, if you take from four 57

32:44

BC and you add 483 years, you come to 27

32:51

AD. So this is going to be whenever I think Jesus was baptized in 27

32:58

AD. Now, if you go back, so I believe that he was 30 years old there, 27

33:05

AD. So I believe that he was born around three BC, four BC. You see what

33:11

I'm saying? And so 27 AD is when I believe that he was baptized. And that's where I believe that this prophecy comes in like the, the, the 69 weeks he was baptized at the 69 weeks.

33:27

We're going to go somewhere else now. Oh, I'm excited, which we don't have to go there right now. I just thought of something else and I cannot remember where the

33:33

Bible versus right now. Yeah. So, but, but, but, but I do believe three different Kings gave a decree, right?

33:42

And each one of them will take you right to the, around the same time. Right. I, so my, my argument is,

33:50

I think if I remember correctly, this is off the top of my head without, without looking up the actual date,

33:55

I want to say Cyrus made his decree in 539 BC or 37 or 32 or something like that, which gives a different date using those 490 years, like you made mention of, it gives a different date.

34:09

If we were to backdate from, from Jesus's birth or wherever you want to, it doesn't meet with Cyrus's decree.

34:16

I think King Artaxerxes is the one that, that meets it head on. And so if I, if I remember right,

34:23

Cyrus told the, the, the ethnic Jews to go back to the city and to rebuild the temple, he gave that decree and the

34:30

Jews didn't start until there was another King that told them you need to, you need to start building the temple.

34:36

I believe, don't quote me on that. I believe that that's correct. And so that's why we get differing dates of when a decree was issued.

34:45

I would hold to my reasoning for holding to Cyrus is, is partly because of that second

34:50

Chronicles text. I really do think in there that it's, it says that the, the, the 70 year, the 70 weeks that Daniel's talking about that have been declared for Jerusalem, this desolation period is fulfilled when

35:04

Cyrus gave a decree. And now the 490, the thing where I would go with that is that that's the, the year of Jubilee, right?

35:13

When we have this, this seven of sevens, this, this large theological number. Now, I think that is what

35:20

Christ was claiming to be. When he said that you enter into my rest, that I am that Sabbath. I am this, this,

35:26

I think what he's essentially saying in here is I'm the 490. I'm the, this, the Sabbath of Sabbaths.

35:32

I'm the rest of the rests. And, and so that's how I would approach something like this is that, that Jesus was fulfilling that theological implication of that number, regardless of, of the amount of time that span between the decree and when

35:46

Christ was born. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I see what you're saying. I'm not,

35:52

I don't think I I'm there. Yeah, for sure. But, but, but I definitely see what you're saying.

35:59

I don't know why, for some reason, I thought that Cyrus is met because I know a few years ago

36:05

I did a study and, yeah, and I, for some reason I knew that it didn't, but then for a second here,

36:14

I, I thought that, I don't know what I was thinking. And I want to say that, yeah, go ahead.

36:20

No, but, but in my study, I know like whenever I just, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty certain, you know,

36:30

I would definitely hold to King Artic Xerxes. Yeah. I mean, I mean like if you take from 457

36:36

BC and you go nine, uh, 70 weeks, 490 years, it takes you to, to 34

36:45

AD. Yep. Pretty spot on, right? Yeah. I mean, like, it's just like, there's no way to, to, to, to, to get, to get by it.

36:57

And maybe to help out our dispensational pre -millennialist friends, because they would, they would say that Jesus was baptized when he was 30 and that the triumphal entry meets that requirement found in the 400 that that's when they would say that that's the, the 490 that that completion of those years is falling upon the, the triumphal entry of Jesus.

37:19

Yeah. But they would say that the 69 weeks, that's when there were the 69. Yes. That took place. That's right.

37:25

And I would say that the entrance that the, the triumphant entering, uh, what, that would have took place, uh, you know, the week at his death.

37:34

Right. I would too. I would hold that too. Yeah. So he would have been 33.

37:42

Yep. So you would put the public ministry of Christ somewhere around a five -year period. Is that correct? No, a three -year period.

37:50

But if he was baptized at 28, I thought you said. No, he was baptized in 27. He was baptized in 27

37:56

AD. So he was baptized at 30. I thought that you said he was baptized at 28 years old.

38:02

I was, I was confused there for a second. He was baptized at 30 years old in 20, 27 AD at 30 years old.

38:07

He was born around three or four BC, baptized at 30 at 27 AD, 27

38:13

AD. I would have the 490 years. Right.

38:18

I gotcha. So that was, I thought that I heard you said that he was 27 years old when he got baptized.

38:24

So I was like, oh man, we got to talk about this now here in a second. I don't, if I said it,

38:30

I didn't mean it. No, for sure. No. And I think what you were saying was 27 AD and said that.

38:36

27 AD is when he was baptized. He would have been 30 years old. Tracking.

38:41

Yeah. Okay. And so, and I believe that he was crucified at 33. And I want to say he would have been

38:47

AD 30, probably mid range of AD 30, mid year of AD 30. Yep. So, and there's two different dates that I want to say,

38:55

I'm looking at something right now. So it says here, there was a decree from, so some people would say, so from Ezra chapter 7, 11 to 26, they would say that that decree of,

39:07

I can't pronounce his name. Arta Xerxes. Yeah. A -R -T -A -X -E -R -X -E -S.

39:13

Yep. I'm going to call him Xerxes because that's fine with me. Arta Xerxes. But then there's a second date that's given in Nahon.

39:21

Oh my goodness. I cannot talk right now. I'm rubbing off on you, brother. Yeah, you're good.

39:26

So the two different dates that are given by Arta Xerxes is 458 to 57

39:33

BC. And then the second date is 445 BC to 44 BC.

39:38

Yeah, I got 445 BC up here too. So they would pull from that 445 to meet the triumphal entry period, if I remember correctly.

39:51

Yeah, they would. But it just don't, but as you'll see, as we walk through here,

39:56

I'm going to show how that number doesn't work. I'm excited for that. I really am. I really, really am.

40:02

So what would be, because we're on the same page. So on, as far as this stuff goes for the most part, right?

40:08

I would say that I think it's Cyrus that offered that decree. And I think that that number is theologically important, not necessarily numerically specific.

40:17

So you and your all males, man. You must be spiritualized and everything. I know. It's a good way to be.

40:24

But I'm happy that we're on the same page. I would place, because I think verse 24 is so clear that it says in here that, well, yeah, in verse 24, it talks about him anointing his most holy.

40:34

I think that's very clearly speaking of Christ being anointed in his baptism, right? Yeah. So this is, it names off six things.

40:45

And if I'm not mistaken, which

40:50

I could be, that our dispensational brothers would say that these six things have not been fulfilled.

41:02

They're all future. And that's where I was going to say to the dispensational would say all this is future. I believe,

41:07

I don't know about the historic pre -mill, but I definitely think that the dispensational holds to a future verse 24.

41:15

Yeah. Now I believe that all these six things have been fulfilled. And let's just read those six things again.

41:21

And I'll let you riff on it a little bit. And it says, I'll start at the very beginning.

41:28

70 weeks are decreed about your people. So your here's

41:34

Daniel, the people, the Jews in your holy city, Jerusalem, to finish, right here, to finish transgressions.

41:43

That's important. To put an end to sin, to atone for iniquity, to bring about everlasting righteousness, to seal both the vision and profit and to anoint a most holy place.

42:01

Amen. And that word place isn't in the text to anoint the most holy is what that says there.

42:07

I see this all being fulfilled in the first advent of Christ.

42:12

Absolutely. 100 % without a doubt. And this is where I have, I just, if I was to read this plainly without knowing anything else about the

42:22

Bible, and I just knew about this figure, Jesus, I couldn't deny Jesus not completing this in his first coming.

42:29

I really couldn't. And I have a hard time with anybody that doesn't think that it's been fulfilled already.

42:36

Well, if you want to just, just think about the, it says to finish the transgressions.

42:43

Yeah. I want to go to Galatians chapter three real quick. Yeah. And this is one of the reasons why

42:55

I'm not a theonomist. Go ahead and put that out there. Verse 19.

43:12

Why then the law? So it's speaking about the law of Moses being added to the

43:18

Abrahamic covenant. Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made.

43:36

All right. Now this is until the offspring had come and you come up here to verse 15.

43:42

Um, let's just read verse 15 and 16 real quick to give a human example, brothers, even with a man -made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified.

43:54

Now the promises were made to Abraham to speak about the Abrahamic covenant and to his offspring.

44:01

It does not say into offsprings referring to many, but referring to one and to your offspring, who is

44:07

Christ. Now go back to verse 19. The law was added. Why then the law?

44:14

It was added to the Abrahamic covenant because of transgressions until the offspring who was

44:21

Christ should come. Why?

44:27

Because Christ puts an end to transgressions. He does away with that law that was given.

44:35

Now I'm not talking about the 10 commandments. I'm talking about the, the, uh, the, uh, what's the words

44:44

I'm looking for the ceremonial and the judicial laws that were given to the geopolitical nation of Israel.

44:52

Yep. I agree with that. So right here it says to finish transgression.

45:01

Well, he fulfilled it by living the life we couldn't live by keeping that law.

45:08

Yep. He has put an end to transgression. Amen. Well, how did he do that?

45:14

Well, it says it right here. He put an end to sin. Yeah. How did he do that? It's time for iniquity.

45:20

Yeah. Like it just kind of goes down. It really does. It really, really does. It really, really does.

45:29

And then whenever he came, he brought, well, how did he put an end to sin? So if someone wants to ask you that question, how did, how did

45:38

Jesus put an end to sin? We're still sinning. Yep. How did he put an end to sin?

45:44

That though we are still sinning, he became sin on our behalf. And when he paid the price for that sin, that means that that sin is now it's he put an end to it.

45:54

It's done. It's paid for. It's it's fully, it's fully founded and realized in Jesus Christ.

46:01

These six things represent the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yeah, absolutely.

46:07

All right. He atoned for iniquity. Well, not only was

46:12

Jesus the high priest, the mediator, he was also the sacrifice.

46:19

Yep. All right. Yep. Our mediator between God and man, our high priest after the order of Mechizedek, not only entered that sanctuary to atone for sin, but he was the sacrifice.

46:41

Well, how, how, how did he bring about everlasting righteousness?

46:46

I'm just going to keep on on the same verse I was just quoting from so that we, so that we might be made the righteousness in him.

46:53

Right. Right. Right. All right. Well, what about this one to seal both vision and profit?

47:00

Yeah. So what I like to tell people is that the old Testament prophets, they mostly prophesied two things, a coming destruction upon Jerusalem.

47:10

Why? Because they did not keep the law. I mean, it was the basic, keep the law, live in the land, earthly people, earthly promises, earthly kingdom, earthly promises, earthly blessings.

47:22

Yep. If you did not keep this, you brought upon yourself earthly curses.

47:29

Okay. It says, so they mostly did two things.

47:37

They prophesied a coming judgment because they did not keep the law and they prophesied a

47:42

Messiah figure who was to come. Yep. All right. John the Baptist was the last of these prophets to do those two things.

47:51

Luke 16, 16. He, he spoke about a coming judgment. The ax is laid to the root of the tree.

47:59

Any tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. I'm John the Baptist. I baptize you with water into repentance.

48:07

But he who comes after me, talking about the Messiah. Yep. I'm not even worthy to hold his shoes.

48:13

He's going to baptize you with Holy Spirit and fire. The whittling fork is in his hand. He will thoroughly cleanse the threshing floor.

48:19

Talking about the judgment. He will gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff, you, who's the ax is at the root of the tree.

48:25

He's going to burn with unquenchable fire. That's the kind of being baptized by fire. I don't want to be baptized.

48:32

We are doing a show on being baptized by fire. Yeah. Yeah. But that would be great.

48:39

But you see right there, he's, he's the last one that done those two things prophesied a coming judgment and the coming

48:46

Messiah. And that's what we see taking place throughout the old Testament. Jerusalem disobeyed.

48:52

They would prophesy, come in judgment. And they would also prophesy a Messiah figure who would come and rescue them.

48:59

Yeah. Which I, when he, Jesus seals that by coming. Yep. Absolutely.

49:07

And I was just going to say, I feel like there might be an inconsistency with a person that's a dispensational pre -meal that would say that we don't have prophets today, because in here it says that it's to seal up both vision and prophecy.

49:19

I would assume that if this is a future thing, why are there not prophets today that are in acting in the exact same way as in the old

49:28

Testament? My, my approach to something like this is that prophets were always prophesying forward to the first coming of Christ.

49:34

And when Christ came and fulfilled all righteousness, there is no more need of a prophet like there was in the old

49:40

Testament. And so if, if, if somebody's holding to that and a dispensational pre -meal view,

49:45

I feel like that's an inconsistency according to this text. And I would also say that all the prophets were

49:50

Jews. Yeah. Right. For sure. And so God is no longer dealing with them as his people because he, he no longer deals with an earthly kingdom people.

50:04

Yeah. His, his people are in the heavenly kingdom, which is the church.

50:10

You sound all male right now. I told you I'm a mixed bag of cookies, but I like it.

50:19

It's good. It's real good. So yeah, we're, we're on the same, same page with, with all of that. And I, I think that at Jesus's baptism, we have a fulfillment, even though we would approach this in two different ways that we're both saying that that's the fulfillment of those, those, uh, those weeks that, that the anointing of Jesus at the baptism, that's what fulfilled this.

50:41

And so I would also add that when Jesus gets asked in, in Matthew chapter three, verses 14 and 15,

50:47

I believe it is that says, uh, those, those very words that you said, I'm not worthy to tie your feet or tie your shoes.

50:52

Why, why am I baptizing you? And he says, no, it's fulfilled. It's fitting to fulfill all righteousness.

50:58

And so I think that that is calling back to a verse like this, and as well as with Christ being our high priest, the requirements that we see a priest needing to have in the old

51:09

Testament was, uh, one, you had to have a verbal blessing to, you had to be washed three.

51:15

You had to be anointed in four. You had to be of the age of 30 to 50 years old. And so when you said that he, you thought,

51:21

I thought when I thought I heard you say that Jesus was 27 years old, I was like, Whoa, what? But those, and I don't,

51:28

I did hear wrong. I did. And so those, those four points, um, I don't know where the scriptural references are off the top of my head for those things.

51:37

I know a lot of them comes out of numbers and Exodus and, and so on and so forth. So we see Christ when he enters into his public ministry, entering into his, uh,

51:45

Melchizedek priesthood rule, uh, to be able to offer a sacrifice and to fulfill all righteousness and to seal up prophecy and vision.

51:54

You see all those things taking place in those, those public ministry years of Christ. Yeah. So what would you say would be the last one?

52:03

Yeah. To anoint a most Holy place, which I know that it's the plate where place is not that in the text, but it's just to, to help the reader understand.

52:15

Yeah. So this, this text, Daniel is in the year of desolation, right?

52:20

So there is no temple. Like Jeff said, he's waiting for that second decree to a second temple. And this anointing of the most

52:29

Holy is speaking about a temple type language. And so what was the temple always pointing forward to?

52:37

What were the priests always pointing forward to? What was the sacrifice always pointing to? And it was always pointing to Jesus Christ.

52:43

And so when John one 14, we see that the word became flesh and tabernacled amongst, amongst men.

52:50

We see that later on in, in John chapter three and John chapter five, he talks about in John chapter five, that that destroy this temple.

52:59

And I will raise it up in three days. He's speaking about himself and his crucifixion.

53:04

So Jesus very clearly makes it known that he is our temple in that regard.

53:11

He is the place where the sacrifice is going to take place. He is the sacrifice. He is the one offering that sacrifice.

53:17

So when it says to anoint, the most Holy is calling back to the old

53:22

Testament types and shadows found in the temple and the anointings that would take place there.

53:29

It's talking about the most Holy, which is going to be the fulfillment Jesus Christ. This is not, in my opinion, this is not speaking of a new third temple.

53:38

That's going to be built in the future. It's speaking about the one and only temple, Jesus Christ, his body dying upon a cross.

53:47

Okay. All right.

53:58

So I would say that I agree. Yeah, definitely with, you know, that Jesus is the temple, but I think it actually,

54:12

I mean, I mean, this is what I hate about getting new Bibles. So I sold the

54:18

Bible that I've been preaching at it with Hebrews and I had it marked up and stuff. And now, like before we got on here, we actually,

54:28

I didn't have a plan of what was going to do. So I just asked him, I said, so if you ain't going to let us talk about, we'll go to Daniel 9.

54:35

We're shooting from the hip right now. Yeah, we're shooting from the hip. And so in the

54:40

Hebrews, for some reason, I just, what are you thinking of?

54:46

Maybe I got to mark it. But so I'm just thinking that this is speaking about him going in his ascension.

55:00

So whenever he ascends to the father, he pierces through the clouds.

55:06

Like this is, it's talking about him going into the temple because the temple was actually,

55:14

I think it's in Hebrews 10, for some reason, I'm going to say 10. Moses was given a picture of the temple in order to build the tabernacle.

55:28

Yep. And so maybe it's, let me see for this.

55:35

Now this might not be it, but let me read it real quick. The law has been a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities that can never, by the same sacrifice that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near.

55:51

Otherwise would they have come and offered? Hold on. I don't know, man.

56:01

But I would say, yeah, but, but, but, but, but I would say this is definitely talking about Jesus passing through, which

56:15

I'm not saying that you're wrong. For sure. Because I do believe that he's, he's the temple, but I do believe that this is him ascending, like the fulfillment of this would be him ascending.

56:26

This is talking about his ascension. And, and, and, and maybe next time that we get on here,

56:33

I can kind of. Yeah. Harken back to this point to, to give my

56:41

Bible verse. Yeah. I did a sermon kind of connecting it to it.

56:48

Cool. So. So I have here in, in Hebrews chapter nine,

56:54

I'm just looking, I don't know if this is where you're looking for, but verses 19 to 28 talks about how we've been sprinkled or how in the

57:04

Old Testament that they would sprinkle blood goes on to talk about sprinkling both the tabernacle and the vessels of the ministry with the blood.

57:13

And then it goes on to say for Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands and mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself now to appear in the presence of God for us.

57:26

Is that the one you were looking for? I think so. Nor was it that he should. It talks about this.

57:32

Yeah. This, when he ascends, he appeared into a holy place and he's, and he's bringing, you know, his sacrifice to God.

57:41

And so I do believe that it's speaking on the ascension. And I do 100 % believe that Jesus is the temple.

57:49

For sure. I know what you mean. Yeah. And we might be cutting hairs on a lot, on all some of these verses, because we're going to be pointing at the same

57:56

Jesus Christ throughout this entire text. Right. I would hold that because it talks about the anointing, the most holy place.

58:03

I do think that that's speaking about specifically though Jesus was our temple and tabernacled with us before he was anointed by the

58:13

Holy spirit. I think that it's, it's calling out to his anointing from the Holy spirit after his baptism is how

58:20

I would apply this verse. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it's all above. True.

58:27

Except for the future sense. We're not saying this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

58:32

I mean, because it's like, well, it's Jesus, our bride, our bridegroom, or are we his body? Right.

58:38

It's like, yeah. Yeah. Amen. We're also stones being built upon one another and all these other things.

58:48

I like it. So maybe, maybe we go on to verse 25 now. Yeah. I'll read it for you.

58:54

It says, I'll read it from the, the one Paul used the 77 NASB.

59:00

So in verse 25, it says, so you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild

59:10

Jerusalem until a Messiah, the Prince, there will be 70 weeks and 62 weeks.

59:19

It will be built again with Plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

59:26

So what would, what would be your take on verse 25? Since I kind of led a little bit into verse 24.

59:33

Well, I definitely would say that, let's see, uh, verse 25,

59:41

I would see three things taking place. The word to rebuild and restore

59:46

Jerusalem, the coming of the anointed one of Prince and 70 weeks, well, seven weeks and 62 weeks.

59:54

So I would say that the word to rebuild and restore Jerusalem, I believe, which I've already said this,

59:59

I believe is given by King Art exert season four 57 BC, uh, the seven weeks, although separate in language, they are not separate in time.

01:00:10

Seven weeks, seven weeks plus 62 weeks comes to 69 weeks, which equals 483 years.

01:00:18

Trouble times is speaking of Ezra and Nehemiah. You can go back and read. They started building, working on the temple that, uh, 83 years from four 57

01:00:29

BC comes to AD where it comes to the anointed one. Uh, a

01:00:34

Prince started his ministry. So right here, I believe that this is the start of his ministry.

01:00:40

I believe that the Prince to be none other than the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen. Again, you can go to, uh, yeah, that that's basically it.

01:00:52

So what would you say when it says it will be built again with Plaza and moat, even in times of distress, would you say that that's speaking about the second temple?

01:01:03

Yeah. And again, with troubles, you would go back to, if you want to read about what happened, you would find that, that, uh, story play out in Ezra and Nehemiah.

01:01:12

Yep. I agree with, I agree with all that for sure. So I'm trying to think of if there's anything we need to address in something like this, it says the word

01:01:23

Messiah in here, verse 25 or an anointed one. So it's speaking about, uh, instead of saying the word

01:01:32

Messiah, it could be said the anointed one, the Prince, there will be seven, uh, seven weeks and 62 weeks.

01:01:38

I think that that anointed one is calling back to just the previous verse where it says to anoint the most

01:01:43

Holy. I think that, I think that there's definitely something to be said there that the word anoint is being drawn on again from there.

01:01:52

Yeah. So, yeah. So I would say that that 25, 26 and 27 are basically exegeting 24 for sure.

01:02:01

I agree with that. Yeah. So then maybe in verse 26, um, it says then after the 62 weeks, the anointed one, the

01:02:12

Messiah will be cut off and have nothing. And the people of the

01:02:17

Prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary and its end will come with flood.

01:02:25

Even to the end, there will be war. Desolations are determined.

01:02:34

What's your take on that brother Jeff? Cause I know, I know where you're going to go with this and I'm excited. Well, we have four things going on in verse 26.

01:02:44

So I believe that we have the 62 weeks. We have an anointed one that comes and is cut off and has nothing.

01:02:50

The people of the three, we have the people of the Prince who is to come destroys the city. And then we have, uh, the fourth thing that's going on is it's in comes with a flood war and desolations are decree.

01:03:03

Yeah. So to, to tackle, uh, the one, I mean, you have to go back to verse 25 in a way for the antecedent, um, the 62 weeks, uh, you have to add the seventh week.

01:03:16

So it's a 62 weeks because they're separate in language, but they're not in time.

01:03:21

So there's no parenthesis here. The 62 weeks plus one week equals 69 weeks where the anointed one comes and is cut off.

01:03:31

This anointed one that is to be cut off is the anointed one. The Prince again, hence the antecedent to verse 25, who is to come the word cut off here in verse 26 throughout church history, cut off has cut off and have nothing has always been interpreted as the crucifixion.

01:03:54

I do not take that position though. And here's why. Um, let's see.

01:04:06

I don't want to, let's see. I do not take that position and here's my reasons.

01:04:14

The 70 weeks, I'm just fixing to break it down. Okay. I'm trying not to overthink it, but the 70 weeks, 490 years, 490 years from 457

01:04:26

BC comes to 34 AD one week comes one week is minus one week is 483 years, which is 27

01:04:38

AD. I take the position that at this time, 27 AD is where Jesus is, is, is when the anointed one, the

01:04:48

Prince Jesus started his ministry, which we've already walked through that. Yep. I have

01:04:53

Jesus being crucified in 30 AD, not 27. So, so if, if, if, if, if he's cut off in the 69th week, that's 27

01:05:03

AD. That's whenever he got baptized. You see what

01:05:08

I'm saying? So by the numbers, he can't be crucified the year that he got baptized. So he started his week in 27

01:05:16

AD during the 69th week, 30 AD would be in the middle of the 70 weeks of Daniel, the 70th week of Daniel or 486 years or 86 and one and a half year.

01:05:33

So just on the timing alone gives good reasons to deny that interpretation of church history.

01:05:41

The words cut off does not have to mean to be killed, killed, to be killed, kill, or to be executed or to be crucified.

01:05:52

It can mean to be rejected from your people, to be cut off from his people.

01:05:58

Here's two verses that I would give Leviticus 720 and Genesis 1714.

01:06:06

I think I would go there. If you want to look at one and then I'll read one.

01:06:12

Yeah. If you get Leviticus, I'll get Genesis. Leviticus and where was

01:06:17

I at? Leviticus 720. 720. Copy. Would be one reason

01:06:23

I would hold this position and I'll get Genesis 1714. Yeah.

01:06:29

1714. While you're turning there, you want me to read Leviticus 720 right now? Yeah. Okay.

01:06:35

But the person who eats the flesh of the sacrifice of peace offerings, which belong to the

01:06:40

Lord in his uncleanliness, that person shall be cut off from his people.

01:06:47

All right. So does that mean killed? It says crucify right there. You didn't say.

01:06:53

Yeah. Or how about right here? We're talking about circumcision. Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people.

01:07:06

He has broken my covenant. All right. Does that mean to be crucified?

01:07:12

Does that mean to be killed now in Isaiah chapter 53?

01:07:19

I do believe where it's based about cut off that that could be talking about him being crucified. Yep.

01:07:25

But it doesn't always have to mean that is my point. Right now, when Jesus now we know that Jesus was the anointed prince.

01:07:34

He came to his own and his own people did not receive him. John one eleven. But all who did receive him to them, he gave the right to become children of God.

01:07:43

Right. Jesus said of himself that he had nothing. Luke nine fifty eight.

01:07:49

And so I believe that that when he started his earthly ministry, he was rejected by his own people.

01:07:56

He was cut off from the Jews. They did not receive him as their earthly as the king, as the

01:08:05

Messiah. So to be clear, I take the position that the anointed one being cut off means that he was rejected by his people at the time, his earthly ministry in twenty seven a .d.

01:08:19

The next two points I would point to, I believe, jumps beyond the 70 weeks of Daniel.

01:08:26

So I believe like right here in verse twenty six where it talks about.

01:08:33

It's in shall come with a flood and to the end, there shall be war, desolations or decree.

01:08:39

I do not believe this is talking inside the 70 week perimeter that we're given.

01:08:45

I believe that this has taken us to eighty sixty six to eighty seventy whenever Jerusalem is finally destroyed.

01:08:59

Does that make sense? Yeah, I look something up real fast. Keep on going with that thought, though.

01:09:05

I agree with that that portion there. I would disagree with some of the stuff that you said earlier. But so you're saying that the halfway week or the the week or the three and a half weeks that it would be the the 70 destruction of the.

01:09:22

No, no, no, no. So right here. So let me read it and I'll kind of walk through it. I'll give very little commentary.

01:09:30

It says and after the sixty two weeks, the anointed one shall come and be cut off. So I believe that this is when

01:09:37

Jesus was was baptized and he was cut off. He was rejected by his own people and he had nothing.

01:09:44

And the people are the prince who is to come. So the prince who is to come, I believe that to be

01:09:50

Jesus, the nearest antecedent to the prince who is to come is the anointed one.

01:09:57

In verse twenty six, and it is the anointed one in verse twenty five, so the word prince here, it has not introduced anyone outside of the anointed prince.

01:10:10

You have the prince who and the prince who is to come shall destroy the city in the sanctuary.

01:10:17

I believe this is speaking of of Jesus. Jesus comes and judges his people. And I believe that in his end shall come with a with a with a flood.

01:10:27

And so it's in and I believe that this is talking about when Jesus comes on the cloud, he comes as Yahweh and he executes the judgment.

01:10:37

And this took place in 70 AD. But this this war would have broken out at the at the

01:10:45

Jewish revolt, which started in sixty six AD. OK. I like it.

01:10:51

Yeah. So what would you take on this? So likewise, since since I would start my decree from Cyrus and having that understanding,

01:11:04

I'm trying to look up real fast. I'm trying to remember where Jesus talks about us entering into his rest and him being our

01:11:12

Sabbath and talking about that. And I can't like like we said earlier, we're shooting from the hip on here.

01:11:18

So I'm I don't have all the Bible verses up. So so my take on this on this is that these numbers in here have some theological implications for starting with 490, not having a literal numerical value that's going to be given to it just like Daniel didn't take the literal 70 years.

01:11:40

And even if you were to look at and I won't go back on that, but anyway, so understanding those in a theological implication rather than an actual numerical value,

01:11:52

I would say that Christ is that that resting place that we enter into his rest. That's the 490 in here. And it's speaking of in verses and I'll read it again here in twenty five.

01:12:01

So it says, so you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree, which

01:12:06

I would say is is Cyrus to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah or the anointed one.

01:12:13

And that's calling from verse twenty four, speaking about the Christ, the prince. There will be 70 weeks and sixty two weeks.

01:12:23

It will be built again and with Plaza and Mote even in times of distress then.

01:12:29

And I agree with you with with going to Ezra and whatnot. It says even in times of distress, then after the sixty two weeks, the

01:12:36

Messiah will be cut off. And I would I would place this at the crucifixion.

01:12:42

And the reason I feel like I would be justified in doing something like this is that you don't hold to a literal

01:12:49

I don't hold to a literal numerical value that it's speaking of the theological implication is how

01:12:55

I would approach something like this. And so I would say Daniel was at the 70th. He was near in the 70th week.

01:13:01

Yeah. And then actually said that it would end in 70 weeks. Well, and the point of it is, is that Cyrus's decree,

01:13:10

I want to say it comes a couple of years shy of a literal 70 years of desolation for Jerusalem.

01:13:17

So even even in so my my takeaway on something like this is that Daniel's asking in a prayer about a number that he should already know, but he's still asking about it.

01:13:28

And he's being told about a prophetic future in reference to his numerical questions that he's asking.

01:13:35

And I think I think that the way I approach something like this is that that therefore just continuing on with it.

01:13:42

Therefore, I wouldn't have a numerical issue with saying that the Messiah being cut off is speaking about the crucifixion because I think that's the that crisis that rest and it's being through him being cut off that rejection when the

01:13:55

Jews say we have no King, but Caesar that kind of stuff. And then it would go on to say that and have nothing.

01:14:04

And the people of the Prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And it will end with will in its end will come with a flood.

01:14:15

Even to the end, there will be war. Desolation is to be determined. And then it goes on to talk about the week and a half and all that.

01:14:22

I would agree with you. I think that from the the crucifixion of Christ, that's the beginning of the three and a half week.

01:14:29

70 AD comes about at the destruction of the Jerusalem, the temple. We're not at the halfway, so we're not in 27.

01:14:37

We're not there yet. I know, I know. I would. So I would hold to verse 25 and 26 being talking about the crucifixion of Christ is where I'm talking about.

01:14:47

I guess where I was going with that was was how you were talking about 66 AD is where you would say that that that verse there at the end of verse 26 being that that there will be war and desolation, desolation determined.

01:14:58

I agree with you on that. That time placement on there. So. So what about 27 AD? Do you want to go ahead and finish your thought with that?

01:15:05

And then I'll come. Yeah. Yeah. So let me just read it real fast. So it says, and he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week.

01:15:12

But in the middle of the week, he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering. And on the wing of abomination will come one who makes desolate even until a complete destruction.

01:15:24

One that is decreed is poured out on the one who makes desolate. And so my takeaway on, on something like this, and since, since Daniel is asking, when is this temple, when is this desolation going to stop?

01:15:38

When is the temple going to be rebuilt? The angel is finishing with talking about the destruction of this new temple that will be issued here soon.

01:15:47

And I do think that I would hold to the, the, the pre -trib or not the pre -trib.

01:15:53

What am I saying? Partial preterist view on something like this, that it was speaking about the son of man coming in on clouds of judgment, destroying that temple, that blaspheme in the name of God, the one that Christ cast out the money gatherers out of walked away from gave his

01:16:09

Mount of all of that discourse upon looking at the temple, knowing all that it's speaking about that day.

01:16:15

And I think that that's the three and a half years that are the three and a half weeks that it's speaking of once again, I'm not holding to a literal taking of those numbers being three and a half weeks, three and a half years, however you want to approach that being three and a half.

01:16:29

I wouldn't hold to a literal numerical value in it, but it's just saying that in the middle point between the

01:16:34

Messiah being cut off and a second coming writer, the consummation of, of his kingdom, there's going to be some point in the middle somewhere that the, the grain offerings, those kinds of things will be completely put away.

01:16:50

And I think that that's speaking about the destruction of the temple in 70, 80. Yeah. So, so not only did it give 70 weeks, but it breaks it down into 490 years.

01:17:07

All right. Yeah. And not only does it break it down into 70 weeks, 490 years, it separates into seven weeks, 62 weeks, the 69 weeks.

01:17:20

And then it breaks the last week down into three and a half years and three and a half years.

01:17:26

That's specifically going through and breaking down these numbers. And so because of that,

01:17:32

I would definitely hold to the grammatical, like, like this is a literal time being given to us that will be fulfilled as it's laid out.

01:17:46

And so when I come to verse 27, um,

01:17:52

I see, uh, again, four things that he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week.

01:18:00

Number two, I see that halfway through the week, he shall put an end to sacrifice and offerings.

01:18:06

That should take you right back to verse 24 on the wing of abomination shall come one who makes desolate.

01:18:13

And then until the end decree to support out on the desk later. So if you look, at the, uh,

01:18:21

I mean, again, I know I'm just, you know,

01:18:26

I'm probably just, uh, tearing hairs apart right now, but it says, and he, and he shall make a strong covenant.

01:18:33

Yep. So the pre -millennial dispensationals would say that this, he here is the antichrist and he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week that whenever this antichrist figure comes and he makes a covenant with 10 nations, supposedly that this is the beginning of the 70 weeks of Daniel.

01:18:58

Yeah. But if you look the, he here, where's this nearest antecedent.

01:19:06

It's still coming from the Messiah that was cut off earlier. Yes. Coming from the prince. Yep. So they're calling the

01:19:13

Messiah. They're calling Jesus, the antichrist. You cannot introduce a word like he, without giving the name first pointing to something like that's that, that doesn't work.

01:19:29

Like, like we need context of who you're talking about. Well, the context of who this is speaking about is the

01:19:37

Messiah, the prince, and he shall make a covenant with many for one week.

01:19:43

All right. So this would be, in my opinion, this was at his baptism.

01:19:51

He makes a covenant with many for one week and for half of the week, he shall be, and he shall put an end to sacrifice and offerings.

01:20:03

This is when he was, the Messiah was crucified three and a half years later into his ministry.

01:20:09

Jesus was crucified. This is whenever I would have his death. This would have been around 30

01:20:17

AD, probably in the middle. So, so 30, middle of 30 AD is when he was crucified.

01:20:23

And right here, not he shall be cut off, but right here where it says, and he shall, he shall put an end to sacrifice and offerings.

01:20:34

Well, how does he put an end to sacrifice and offerings? By him being that priest after the order of Melchizedek, not only is he the, the priest, he is the sacrifice.

01:20:50

This is whenever he was crucified. He put an end to sacrifice. No longer do we have to, the

01:20:55

Jews had to go back to temple and sacrifice lambs. Why? Because Jesus had put an end to sin by being the sacrifice.

01:21:03

Right. And so, and so, and so right here, he would make a strong covenant.

01:21:10

With, he will make a strong, hold on a minute. Yeah. He will make a strong covenant with many for one week.

01:21:17

So this is speaking about his disciples and those who are following him. And for half of the week, he shall put an end to sacrifice and offerings.

01:21:24

And right here, this half part where it says, and on the wing of an abomination, again,

01:21:29

I would point to the 70 AD on the wing of an abomination.

01:21:37

So, but I would say that the abomination right here is them, is the Jews continuing to sacrifice.

01:21:45

So he has put an end to sacrifice. They reject Jesus and they continue to sacrifice animals on the wing of abomination shall come one who makes desolate.

01:21:56

What does desolate mean? It means that Jerusalem will be emptied until the end is decreed in,

01:22:04

I don't know, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator. And then the one who comes and even he, even he is destroyed eventually.

01:22:13

So, right. I, I'm happy that you brought up the, the antichrist portion of this, because I was going to ask you a little bit more about that coming from you having come from that perspective.

01:22:23

I, I don't see that anywhere in this text. So it's not so, and it, it kind of worrying because they really are by saying that, that he is speaking of the antichrist.

01:22:34

If you and I are correct, it is blasphemy, right? It's blasphemy. They're calling Jesus the antichrist.

01:22:40

If listen, anyone who's watching this, if you're reading this and you say verse 27, he shall come make a strong covenant.

01:22:49

If you say that is the antichrist, you're called, look at me in the eyes. You're calling

01:22:55

Jesus the antichrist. Yeah. That's what you're doing. Stop it.

01:23:01

Stop it. Don't do that again. That's blasphemy. It's bad. It's real bad. So, but to continue on with, with your take on something like this.

01:23:10

So with, with Christ being crucified in 30 AD middle, somewhere in that area, right.

01:23:17

Three and a half years after the 27 AD, why would then the three and a half years then go on to 70

01:23:23

AD if that was to be a literal taking of that number? Because the 70 AD would have ended in 34

01:23:30

AD. And this would have been when the gospel would have went to the Gentiles. This would have been when Peter saw that sheet come down.

01:23:36

This will have been when, whenever Peter, I mean, whenever Paul would have been knocked off his high horse and Peter would have been sent to the house of Cornelius and preached the gospel to the

01:23:48

God fearers. Okay. So again, it's showing that, that he, the decree was set for his people to put it in.

01:23:57

All right. As soon as the 70 weeks is over with, no longer is he dealing with the

01:24:04

Jews. Jesus's ministry was for the Jews, but he said that he had other sheep, not of this folk.

01:24:12

I gotcha. You see what I'm saying? So the, so, so he's crucified at 30

01:24:18

AD, but in 34 AD, three and a half years later, he would, would have been the end of the 70 weeks.

01:24:28

Peter sees the sheep coming down with the animals. He's told him he can't eat the, eat these judicial dietary laws or no more because his covenant with the people of the

01:24:42

Jews is no more. Yeah. I'm tracking. Yeah. I've never heard that take on that with, with the three and a half years being fulfilled in 34

01:24:51

AD with the, with the Gentiles then. Yeah. I mean, if you, if you line it up, I mean, Peter goes out,

01:24:57

Peter has that dream. He, he, he sent to the God -fearers. You have Gentiles come into Christ right after Acts chapter 10,

01:25:06

Gentiles, Gentiles, Gentiles, Paul's been sent out to the Gentiles. Would you say that that's when the, the, the, the

01:25:14

Gentile people, so non -Jewish people, then therefore receive the gospel?

01:25:19

Or would you say people were receiving the gospel Gentiles prior? No, they wasn't.

01:25:25

Copy that. I mean, you had like the, the, the, the Samaritans, but they were half Jew. Yeah.

01:25:34

But it still doesn't show anywhere in the book of Acts, them, the Samaritans receiving the Holy spirit. That's not in Acts chapter 10.

01:25:43

I like it. I've, I've never heard that take on Daniel chapter nine. Yeah. So, well, it's not original with me.

01:25:52

So neither is mine. Neither is my view of this for sure.

01:25:58

But I, yeah, I thought you were going to put the, the, the later three and a half at the 70 AD. I didn't even think about it.

01:26:04

Again, there's no parenthesis now. Again, I think there's, there's stuff here that's talking about that, but it's, it's not putting those numbers there.

01:26:14

Like anytime where it talks about a destruction that's coming up, you know, the, the desolation.

01:26:20

So I believe that the desolation comes upon them. And once we go through Matthew 24, I want to walk through it verse by verse eventually.

01:26:27

And we'll come back to this where the abomination that causes desolation.

01:26:33

Again, I would say the abomination is them. They continue to sacrifice after he has put an end to sacrifice and sins.

01:26:41

And he done that by being crucified that he is our sacrifice for sins.

01:26:48

He, the, our, our, our sufficiency, the sufficiency of Christ, he has lived a life we could not live.

01:26:54

He has died the death that we should die. He stood in our stead that the acts of God's wrath that should have crushed me fell on Christ.

01:27:05

And so the desolation is whenever Jerusalem is, is, is destroyed.

01:27:11

The temple is destroyed, the temple falls. And so the reason why they're destroyed is that they, that they, because of the abomination, the continuing sacrifice, they continue to sacrifice after Christ made the sacrifice.

01:27:28

So God sent the Roman army to destroy them.

01:27:34

Now, of course, Rome went in for one reason. They went in because of their Jewish revolts.

01:27:40

It's kind of like, you know, like, like the way that I use this pencil to write notes,

01:27:46

God used Rome to execute his judgment. Absolutely. Yeah. They went in for one purpose, but God sent them for another purpose.

01:27:56

Yep. So continuing on with that, the thought of, of numbers real quickly.

01:28:04

Well, what would, because if, if I'm trying to remember the dates that we talked about with the, with 70 years or 390 years, excuse me.

01:28:14

So art is Xerxes. Yeah. Art is Xerxes would have been 457

01:28:19

BC. So would you, when would you place the captivity of Jerusalem by Babylon?

01:28:33

I don't know. I haven't, I haven't, I would,

01:28:38

I would say, I don't know.

01:28:47

Cause I'm flipping through pages right now, but I, so how I've always, how I've taken it is that there was, oh man.

01:28:58

I think I would probably be somewhere around the 600 BC timeframe without looking at, looking up the specific date.

01:29:05

But I think I would probably go to, to the guy that you were, you were referencing, referencing and say it would have been 70 years from him.

01:29:13

Cause I gotcha. Because, because he told them to go, but they did not go.

01:29:20

Yeah. Yeah. And so what happened was what, from my understanding without like, like I said, we're shooting from the hip, so I don't have study notes all the way.

01:29:28

Oh yeah. But Cyrus from the

01:29:34

East, the bird of prey from the East that's spoken of all throughout the book of Isaiah, naming him by name, which the book of Isaiah was written 730

01:29:41

BC somewhere around that timeframe, hundreds of years, not well, almost hundreds of years before the birth of Cyrus, before Cyrus was even a twinkling in his mom and dad's eye many, many years, he names out this man,

01:29:56

Cyrus that comes and is going to release the captives as he does. And he tells them to go back.

01:30:02

They go back, not only back to their land that, that God promised to give back to them, but he also sends them way with richer than what they were taken into captivity with.

01:30:13

And I, I would say that, that, that, that 70 years was fulfilled.

01:30:22

And I want to say that the 70 years, it doesn't even, I want to say from when they were taken into captivity from the time of Cyrus's decree, it wasn't a legitimate 70 years.

01:30:32

It was still, it was like 68 or 73 or something along those lines that it wasn't a truly a 70 years.

01:30:39

And so that's why I, I tend to lean on the thought that, that these numbers are supposed to be having a theological implication rather than a, a historic implication is where I go with that.

01:30:53

You know, uh, to be honest with you, I haven't looked into it. Yeah. Um, but, uh,

01:31:00

I definitely will. Yeah. I I'm going to look in because the, even, even in your, even in, in that understanding of, of 27, uh, that could, that could be thrown on the on mill or the post mill side.

01:31:16

So I like it. I like those views when I can then, when I can approach a text and I'll say, Oh yeah, there's also this view and this view and this view that all fit within this, this idea.

01:31:26

Right. Yeah. So I would like, well, like if I'm just shooting at the hip, I would say that, you know, um, they were told to do something, they did not do it, but they did obey at, at, from our deserts and King art exerts.

01:31:45

Right. But I, but, but even in that, I think, I know that that's a part of God's plan. God is sovereign.

01:31:51

Um, and sometimes, you know, I mean, like Jesus tells the, uh, and, and, and, and actually tells them to go.

01:32:00

And once they received the Holy spirit, that they are to go into all the world and preach the gospel and they didn't.

01:32:08

And, and then he had to cause a persecution to take place. And then they started to scatter. And of course,

01:32:15

I know the persecution was pretty predetermined also. Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, um, but, but, but, but, but they didn't, you didn't see that happening in the book of acts.

01:32:25

Right. Um, you know, X chapter 10, you know,

01:32:30

Peter goes to the God fears, but they were, they were keeping it in Jerusalem. And so then the persecution of Saul persecution of the church started breaking out.

01:32:41

Well, then they started to tell it. Yep. So, I mean, it's one thing, you know, being told to do something, but so, so I don't think the actual clock started ticking until they actually left and started building, started building.

01:33:00

I gotcha. Yeah. So, so I wouldn't say that the 490 years began the moment the 70 years ended.

01:33:11

Ended. Okay. Yeah. Because I want to say, I want to say when

01:33:16

I studied this, I want to say they built the foundation and then they just stopped. If I remember, right. Like it was like the foundation was laid and it was in a generation past or something like that before they actually started building the temple, which once again, just shows how, how depraved the ethnic

01:33:38

Israel was not, I mean, terrible that we're not, not that we're not, I'm far worse, but it's crazy to see that in hindsight.

01:33:46

Right. Yep. Yeah. So yeah, that's where I was looking.

01:33:53

So the Luke 40 Luke four, 18 through 19, I think is where I was looking for with that year of Jubilee stuff.

01:34:00

Um, uh, so, and it would also come from Leviticus, um,

01:34:06

Leviticus 25, 54 through 55, Leviticus 25, 39 through 43, just all those good old

01:34:13

Testament verses that talk about, uh, having rest, right. We're talking about Sabbath year of rest, week of rest, so on and so forth.

01:34:22

Uh, but Luke four, I would say all that's fulfilled in Christ whenever we, you know, we come to Christ, I mean,

01:34:30

Hebrew speaks about it. Uh, he is our rest. Yep. You know, he is our Sabbath. Yep.

01:34:36

And so what is, what, what does salvation look like? It's resting in the finished work of Christ.

01:34:43

Amen. I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. So I would a hundred percent agree with that, that, that, that he fulfills, he fulfills that.

01:34:50

I mean, if you just look at the, the first four, uh, commandments of the commandments, you know, it's love

01:34:58

God and loving God. The Sabbath is, is, is in there the fourth commandment.

01:35:05

Yep. Right. And then the, the other six is loving your neighbor. Okay. So we have, um, first John chapter two, verse three says, this is how we know that we have come to know him.

01:35:19

Yeah. And it's about, and it's going to tell you how, if we keep his commandments. Now it doesn't say that this is how we come to know him, but this, it says that this is how we know that we have come to know him.

01:35:32

If we keep his commandments, whoever says that I know him and hasn't doesn't keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

01:35:40

Yep. Well, chapter three, verse 24 tells you what his commandments are.

01:35:46

It says, and this is his commandments that we believe in the name of the son,

01:35:52

Jesus Christ, and love our neighbor as ourselves. Amen. Believing in the name of the son,

01:35:58

Jesus Christ is how you fulfill the first four commandments loving God.

01:36:04

And then we are called to love our neighbor as ourselves. Yep. That's beautiful.

01:36:09

I completely agree with that. Well, I'm going to read Luke four, 18 through 19 real fast. So it says the spirit of the

01:36:15

Lord, uh, is upon me because he has anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor.

01:36:21

He is, which talking about anointing, right? We, what is the very first thing that we see

01:36:26

Jesus do when he's anointed after being baptized, he enters into Galilee preaching the gospel of God saying the kingdom of God is at hand, repent and believe the gospel.

01:36:34

Right. So we see a fulfillment of doing that, uh, to preach the gospel to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim, uh, release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to set forth, uh, to set free those who are downtrodden and to proclaim the favorable year of the

01:36:55

Lord, which is that, that year of Jubilee that I was talking about. Uh, and that comes from Isaiah 61 verse two and Leviticus 25, 10.

01:37:03

And so we see that like, like we were talking about everything that we see in the old

01:37:08

Testament, that the Jews were supposed to keep what they were supposed to do, what they had been commanded, what they had been doing.

01:37:14

Uh, it's always being fulfilled in Christ in one way or another. It, it, it is crisis of fulfillment of all those things.

01:37:20

That's why you can say, I'm the fulfillment of all righteousness is because he fulfilled every single thing of those. Yeah, I agree.

01:37:28

Yeah. I just wanted to read that. Cool. I mean,

01:37:35

I mean, I mean, we're right. Like we're really close, man, but you know, you just got this thing with numbers and I do,

01:37:42

I do. I do. I like, I like, I've tried to point it to Christ as much as I can.

01:37:48

Okay. So now that's next week. So, so, so next week,

01:37:54

I don't know if you're available next week. I know you, uh, so you're, you're scheduling with the fire department. Yeah.

01:38:00

But, um, so whenever the next time let's, let's do Matthew 24 and we'll just slowly walk through it.

01:38:08

We'll find out how, how much of a preterist you are. I would have been, I would have been more prepared for Matthew 24 than I was for Daniel chapter nine tonight.

01:38:17

That's for sure. That's good. Don't study about it.

01:38:25

No, yeah. So just as I think I've told you, but my schedule works two days on, so 48 hours and then

01:38:32

I have four days off. And so it means that I'm always having a rotating schedule. So this next Thursday I'll be off, but the week after that I'll, I'll then miss the next two podcasts and then

01:38:43

I'll be back on for four and then off to back for four off too. So, yeah, so I, I will be here next week.

01:38:50

So Matt, Matthew 24, I'm excited for that. That'll be real good. There's a lot of good language in there.

01:38:56

So, yeah, well, it's, uh, it's after midnight and in my home, it's, uh, so I better get ready, head to bed and wake up.

01:39:07

And like I said, I got a few hours of work tomorrow. Then I'll finish preparing my sermon for this coming

01:39:13

Lord's day. That's right. Preaching on Acts chapter two, you know, baptism.

01:39:25

So nice. It's good stuff. We need to do a podcast on that one day for sure.

01:39:31

Yeah. Yes. So what I'm thinking is as soon as I'm done with the reformed theology series, then maybe we'll do a reformed theology series on the, on, on here that we can kind of go through.

01:39:45

So they can cheat and be ready to go. I like it. Well, I just don't want to say something and someone in my congregation knows what

01:39:55

I believe are already had the interpretation for the Lord's day. So I know what you mean. I know what you mean.

01:40:01

Cool. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Well, sweet. Well, uh, it was a blessing being on your live video again.

01:40:08

This is, I have a good time doing this. I really do. So I appreciate your wife being able to share the time with you, with me.

01:40:14

So I really like doing it live. Like, you know, so if we mess up, then everyone gets to see it, you know, so they can see the cogs turning in each other's heads and so on and so forth.

01:40:25

So, yeah, I like it. I like it. I like it too. Well, man, it's starting, it's really starting to get easier for me at first, like doing these are tough, but it's really starting to get easier the more

01:40:37

I do it. So I'm really enjoying it. I look forward to doing it. Yep. So it was good hanging out with you, my friend and yeah.

01:40:47

And to everyone else, man, I know we didn't normally, we have a lot of interaction on Facebook.

01:40:55

I don't have any. So, so, so maybe 10 30 is not a sweet time to jump on.

01:41:01

No, I was really, I was hoping for some comments and some questions. Yeah.

01:41:08

But next time. Yeah. Next time. Well, you know, I, I, I didn't advertise it until an hour or so before.

01:41:16

Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyways, man, I'll, we'll catch everybody next week. Next week we'll have two podcasts going on.

01:41:23

And so with that get on our YouTube channels, like share, share this.

01:41:31

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01:41:39

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01:41:47

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01:41:55

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01:42:01

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01:42:08

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01:42:13

Plug into a biblical church. Yeah. If you, if you have received Christ by faith and you have not been baptized, you need to be baptized.