Laws of Logic and Social Justice | Apologetics Live 0039

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This is Apologetics Live with Matt Slick and Andrew Rappaport, part of the

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Christian Podcast Community. All right, welcome.

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We are live, Apologetics Live, here to answer your questions, even challenges, whatever you may have on your mind, we're here to help you.

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And a good way to get involved would be to go to apologeticslive .com,

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and at that website, you will be able to engage with us.

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You can watch it there. You can also get the link to join. The link always goes in shortly before 8 o 'clock

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Eastern Time on Thursday night. And that is when you could join both

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Matt Slick and I. Matt Slick is with CARM .org, C -A -R -M stands for Christian Apologetics Research Ministry.

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So CARM .org, Matt Slick has a live radio show Monday through Friday, which you can get the link at CARM .org

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for the radio show, where he does an hour every day, Monday through Friday.

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I am Andrew Rappaport with Striving for Eternity. You can go to strivingforeternity .org

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to get details about us. I have several podcasts, Andrew Rappaport's Rappaport, which is a weekly one hour, roughly, show on biblical interpretations and applications.

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And then I have a Monday through Friday two minute show because I can do what Matt can't do. I can answer things really quick.

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But not slick. And there we go. So two minutes a day,

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Monday through Friday, we give you some biblical interpretations, applications in a more devotional type level.

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And then I have this, what you're listening to now is a podcast, Apologetics Live. They're all part of the

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Christian Podcast Community. And so you can go to christianpodcastcommunity .org

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to get all of our growing podcasts. Matt, we just added a couple more. We added

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Prescribed Truth, a guy who you, I got to send you some of his stuff because I know you started looking into social justice and the intersectionality and critical race theory and all.

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And he has some excellent stuff out there. His brother Jamal has got some great content on social justice.

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And I guess because he is African American, people can't, you know, say that he's just saying it because he's white.

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You know, like you and I, they just reject what we're saying because we're white. And therefore, that's why we say what we say, because you and I have this privilege.

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We're automatically raceless races, too. Well, as Christians, we're raceless, right?

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There's one race. Oh, I don't believe in other races. That's right. So if folks want to join, do us a favor.

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Actually, you could share this with others so they know that we're live. If people have questions, I'm going to go to our

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Apologetics Live group, though, Matt, and see what questions we had in there for the week.

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I know that I did get some questions. One that came in to me for you and I to answer is, can we explain the differences between Roman Catholicism and what we believe?

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And what we would believe is I would call biblical Christianity. So how would you answer?

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The difference between Christianity, biblical Christianity, and Roman Catholicism are multitudinous.

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One, we don't pray to Mary, and thus we do not submit ourselves to the idolatrous practices of Catholicism in that.

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We don't believe that Mary is able to hear millions of prayers simultaneously in different languages all over the world.

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We don't believe that we have to be good in order to become Christians and be saved. We believe that justification is imputed and infused something into us through sacraments.

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The Roman Catholic Church is sacerdotal. We are not. That means that grace is obtained through the sacraments of the authority of the

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Roman Catholic Church. We don't believe in that because we don't believe in grace as a substance.

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We believe in grace as a forensic, well, grace is the unmerited favor of God and included in grace is the justification, which is the legal aspect of the legal work of God, where he imputes the righteousness of Christ to us,

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Philippians 3 .9. So there's many differences in that, and we don't, most Protestants who are biblical will teach that you cannot lose your salvation, but Catholicism, of course, teaches it does.

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Catholicism teaches the papacy, which we reject. There's many, many, many, many differences.

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I'd also, I mean, you got a lot of good things there. I would just add that one other difference we would have is you and I as Christians would believe in sola scriptura, the word of God alone in authority, where the

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Catholic Church adds, well, they add the church, they add tradition, and one of the concerns

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I have with that is when you add something, especially when you add something and say it is the only thing that can interpret scripture.

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In other words, they say that only the Catholic Church can properly interpret scripture. Once you put something in that position, then that becomes higher in authority.

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So even though they say tradition and the scriptures and the church are all equal in authority, when you put one of them as the only arbiter, that thing becomes superior to what it arbitrates.

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And therefore, when they put the church in that way, I would say the church is now the higher authority than God's word, which is a real problem.

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Hey, actually, before we get to the next question, Matt, you're wearing a brand new t -shirt there. So why don't you, you should at least stand up a little bit so folks can see that shirt and you can say where you got that from.

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That help? Not at all. Now you can't see it at all. Oh. We don't want to see your face.

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We want to see the shirt. The shirt. All right. There we go. Can you see it?

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Is it right or is it left? Well, it looks good on here, and it says Christ Alone, and I'm going to show the gospel tracks that come with that t -shirt.

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And this is those who are given out by Five Solas Ministries. I think that's where you got yours from.

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FiveSolasMinistries .com. And they're giving right now 25 % of all of their sales is going to support

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CARM. And so Five Solas Ministries, that's plural on both the

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Five Solas and the Ministries .com. And when you get the t -shirts that Matt's wearing, you get the tracks that go along with it.

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Right. Now you're pretty particular, so I'm curious. You're particular on the clothing that you wear because you're a little bit sensitive as far as that goes.

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How do you like those shirts? It's okay. It's a little bit too small for me. I like things that are a little bit baggy.

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And what people don't understand is I have, I'm a little autistic. I have some autistic issues I have to deal with, and one of them is hypersensitivity.

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And so I wear as much cotton as possible. And I get out of jeans as soon as I can and things like that because it's uncomfortable.

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Just the way it is. It's always been that way. And so this is a little uncomfortable for me right now, but I'm wearing it right now.

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And it's a little warm where I'm at upstairs here with all the lights on, computers and everything else in here.

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Not much circulation right now, but it's a nice shirt. It fits okay. I just like them even bigger. So you're a little bit autistic?

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A little bit. I'm high -functioning autistic. You're high -functioning, huh? Okay. Someone in the chat says that your shirt looks slick, pun intended.

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Yeah, it is slick. It is so slick. I am definitely slick. Okay. Someone's asking the price on those shirts.

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I don't know. Go to fivesolasministries .com.

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Actually, the thing is, is you can design, they have a whole bunch of shirts and other things. You can get tote bags and tumblers and all kinds of things.

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So, and they have different, they have all the five solas. They have a whole bunch of stuff and you can change the, change up how they're doing it.

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Someone's saying it's $19 .99. And I believe they all come with gospel tracks, but. That's a good song.

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$19 .99? Yeah. I didn't know it's a song. By Prince.

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Probably like it's $19 .99. Prince was the guy who was former, who also went by the name of formerly known as Prince, right?

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Yeah. For legal reasons, yeah. Oh, really? What was the legal reason? Do you know?

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Yeah, there was some, it was a, a legal way of getting some control back in his artistry and what the contract was with some company he was in.

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And if his name didn't apply, then they couldn't enforce something.

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It was some weird thing. It was a legal move. So, oh, that's brilliant. So, so basically he had, he wants to keep the name

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Prince, but then doesn't want to, at the same time, you know, have that problem.

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That's brilliant. I didn't know that. Yeah, I read, I read that. It was part of the reason, you know, he played it off as this being some weird thing, whatever, and get more attention, but whatever.

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We've got somebody who's got some, we're going to mute them. Yeah, I muted the volume down, but I think we can hear him.

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So, we'll add him in a moment. But yeah, that almost, that reminds me of in my town that I used to live in, there was a, you know, the

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Cracker Barrels down South? Yeah, we have them here too. Okay. So there was a, it's a chain of, of like stores where they have like a, they, they had a thing where they would just like a storefront and then they have a restaurant.

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Well, there was a guy in my town who had a little ice cream shop and convenience store called

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Cracker Barrel. And one of the executives came through our town, saw it and actually sued the guy.

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And because of the use of the name and the irony of it is he sued the guy because, and the lawsuit was that the, he was being sued for the franchise fees for all the years the guy was in business, which means they had to go back and find out when the guy went into business.

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And it was like his great grandfather's store. Well, it turns out they owned the name first.

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They were several years before the Cracker Barrel franchise. They turned around and countersued

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Cracker Barrel for all of the franchises they had all the years they were in existence for all of their franchise fees for using their name, which quickly ended up in a settlement of, it was like three and a half million dollars.

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The guy was almost like in his sixties, early sixties. So he just basically retired. He sold it. But part of the deal was he had to change the name.

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And so he sold it and changed it to Jim Baker's Cracker Barrel. So he kept the

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Cracker Barrel in there. It works. Yeah. Well, I don't know where manager went.

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We had someone in here who said that you invited him in to discuss the nature of logic, but he just dropped out.

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So hopefully manager will come back in. And we can discuss the nature of logic.

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So we'll go on to the next question while we wait for folks to come in and ask questions. Matt, the next question that was in our

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Apologetics Live Facebook group was, is salvation a conditional gift?

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Yes, of course it's conditional. Okay. Conditional on?

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On the work of Christ and God's saving work in us. It's all conditioned on what

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God does, not what we do. That's conditioned on that. In Roman Catholicism in paragraph 2068 of the

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Catholic Catechism, you obtain salvation by faith, baptism, and keeping the commandments, observance of the commandments, which is heresy.

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Contradicts Romans 3 .28, Romans 4 .5, Romans 5 .1, Galatians 2 .16,

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Galatians 2 .21, Titus 3 .5. The Roman Catholic Church teaches heresy upon heresy upon heresy upon heresy.

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It's a false church. You're saying they teach heresy? Yes, I am. All right. Well, I brought

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Manager01. Something tells me that's not the name his mom and dad gave him, but we'll find out.

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So I brought you in and brought up your mic. I think you're unmuted there.

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You got to try speaking there so we can hear you. Hello. Can you hear me?

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Ah, there we go. Yes. Yep. All right. So you said you had a... You can hear me. Yes, we hear you.

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You said you had a question on the nature of logic. Yeah.

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I noticed on CARM .org, Matt says that logic is conceptual.

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And I was wondering what the difference is between something that is conceptual and something that is imaginary.

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And what is the criteria for distinguishing between the two? Why are you asking the question?

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Because I don't think you can tell the difference by your definition. But what's conceptual?

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You said it's of the mind only. Something conceptual is of the mind only. And I think clearly something imaginary is also of the mind only.

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So what is the criteria that we're going to use to distinguish between something conceptual and something imaginary?

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Between imaginary and conceptual? Correct. That which is imaginary is conceptual, right?

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Well, obviously something imaginary is not real. And according, I assume that what you're saying about the laws of logic being conceptual is that they are real.

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But what is the criteria for determining that? Well, all things imaginary are conceptual, but not all things conceptual are imaginary.

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In that if you define imaginary, it's not real. Hold on one sec, Matt. Let me just... Manager, if you do me a favor, maybe turn your video off.

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We're getting a lot of lag and it's digitizing the voice. So it's hard to hear you. So go ahead, answer.

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Okay, is that better? Yes. Okay, thank you.

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Are you defining imaginary as what is not real? Sure.

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I mean, we can imagine unicorns and so forth. And obviously, unicorns are not associated with something within existence.

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But when you're talking about conceptual, as you defined it as something of the mind only, we're never sure as to whether or not it is associated with something real or not.

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Since it could be imaginary. So when you're talking about the laws of logic, it's just as easy to say that they're imaginary as they are conceptual.

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So if you define imaginary as they don't exist or just made up, is that what you're saying about the laws of logic?

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I'm saying that your definition of conceptual as applied to laws of logic, using your definition of conceptual, that you have defined the nature of logic in a way that you cannot distinguish between the laws of logic and something imaginary.

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I can't. So how do I define the laws of logic? What do you think I said?

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You said that the laws of logic are conceptual. And according to your definition of conceptual, that means they are of the mind only.

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That is your definition of it. So the question arises, obviously something imaginary is also of the mind only, but there is no connection with the world around us, where I intend that the logic must have a connection with the world around us, which contradicts your definition of conceptual.

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Okay, so you're saying that that which is imaginary is not real, doesn't have any existence, right?

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That's correct, in accordance. Okay. All right. So do your thoughts exist? Sure.

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So then your thoughts or abstractions are of the mind? My thoughts are products of the mind.

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They're of the mind. Yeah, they're conceptual, they're of the mind, right. So then we have things that are conceptual, that are not imaginary, because we're distinguishing between them.

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Yes. So how do you distinguish according to your definitions? I just did. I just distinguished them.

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Oh, I must have missed it. Well, I asked you if your thoughts were real, and you said yes, and the thoughts are of the mind.

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And you said that which is of the mind, you distinguish between conceptual and imaginary. Your thoughts have actuality.

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You said they do. I don't know. How are you going to demonstrate that your thoughts have actuality? Okay, so I have thoughts of something that's like unicorns, or snibble dumps, or turtle wings.

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Or I have thoughts about the laws of logic. What is the difference between those thoughts?

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What is the difference between... And again, I contend that the nature of logic is that they are extractions from the world around us, or extractions from language.

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An abstract is an extraction, a concept. There is a connection between something imaginary.

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Is an extraction a conceptual event? No, an extraction begins with the world around us.

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It does not begin with something in the mind. Okay, I asked, is an extraction a conceptual event?

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Not by your definition, no, because... No, we're using your definitions, and I'm showing the problems with your definitions.

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Your definition is that conceptual is of the mind only. If we extract it from the world around us, then it violates your definition of conceptual.

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You're not making any sense. No, it's your definition. It's your definition.

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Your definition is conceptual. Okay, hold on. Whoever else is talking, hold on. I just said that the laws of logic are of the mind.

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That's what I said, that they're conceptual. They're of the mind only. Okay, they're of the mind only.

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Can we find the laws of logic under rocks? We can extract them from rocks, sure.

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I didn't ask you the question, can we extract them from rocks? I said, are they found under rocks?

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That's what I asked you. You don't answer my questions. You rephrase my question and answer something else I don't ask.

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Can you find the laws of logic under rocks? The laws of logic are not existent like rocks exist, no.

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So the answer is no? The answer is they do not exist like rocks exist.

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Okay, so let me ask you another question. Can you find the laws of logic under rocks? I just explained that to you.

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Since they do not exist like rocks exist, no, you cannot find them under rocks. So the answer is no. Can you take a picture of the law of logic?

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No, okay. Can you weigh the laws of logic? No, but I can draw them.

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You don't draw them, you draw representations. You can't weigh them, you can't measure them.

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Sure you can. But you measure the laws of logic? Sure. Okay, what instrument do you use to measure them?

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By using a metallurgical structure, you can measure the scope and range of meaning of the logical statements themselves.

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So you measure them? And the context, so the context that I was talking about was rocks and photos and weight and measurements.

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So that's the context that I asked you the question. So what instrument, which is why

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I said what instrument do you use to measure the laws of logic? I will use metallurgical tools, measurements.

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Okay, so let me go back to the context. The rocks, photos, weight, these are physical characteristics.

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What instrument do you use to measure the laws of logic in the context of the physical characteristics of these laws?

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The physical characteristics, in the same sense of rocks and so forth, you're not going to have them now.

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You broke up, couldn't you? You can't use your mind to measure them. I said, no, you're not going to find physical tools like you would measure the weight of a rock, no.

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So you don't measure the laws of logic because they're not physical, right?

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So you don't have instruments like that to measure them because they're not physical or not properties of the physical, are they? Sure they are.

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Because the properties of the physical can be measured. A property of hardness can be measured.

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A property of volume can be measured in an object. A property of energy, momentum, or color can be measured.

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Okay, am I understanding you that you're saying that the laws of logic have no connection with the world around us?

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I didn't say that. I'm asking you what you're saying. No, that's not what I'm saying.

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I'm not saying it. I'm not saying anything about that right now. Okay, I'm asking you specific questions.

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Okay. And because I'm trying to show you that you're not thinking clearly.

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Okay, go for it. So properties are such things as size and shape and texture and color and things like that.

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Those things are measurable with instruments. And the reason they're measurable with instruments is because these things are properties of objects and in the physical realm.

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So if you have, for example, a bowling ball, it has a spherical shape.

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It has, you know, we'll assume a black bowling ball. It has blackness. It has hardness.

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It may even have a scent to it if it's freshly made or whatever. And we can measure all these things because they relate the measurements of the properties relate to the physical aspects.

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So if something does not have anything that's measurable by any instrumentation, then it's not physical.

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The property is not based on a physical thing. Okay, hang on. You said the property is not based upon a physical thing.

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Or emanate out of or proceed from physical. Okay, then how do we come to a knowledge of the laws of logic if they are of the mind only?

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Because we think. I'm trying to show you that these laws of logic.

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If you're going to say that they are properties of the physical universe. Then that's why

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I ask you, what instrument do you use to measure them? Since other properties of the physical universe are measurable.

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Well, I'm not saying there are properties of the physical universe. I'm saying they are extracted models of the physical universe.

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To have an extracted model, to extract them as a model is something that occurs in the mind. So you have to presuppose their validity in order to observe them, decide about them, etc.

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It's a process of the mind. What you have to assume is that we encounter the world around us and we are existing things.

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And we are humans. And as humans, we try to find patterns in the world around us. And that's a part of finding those patterns is extracting those models, whether it be logical models, mathematical models, engineering models, scientific models.

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We extract models from the world around us to find patterns of things in the world around us.

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They're not patterns in the world itself. These are patterns that we look for and we find and we construct.

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So when you drop a rock and it accelerates and stopped by the ground, you can measure the acceleration.

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And that's a physical event. But the observation occurs in the mind.

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The analysis occurs in the mind. The postulation theorization occurs in the mind.

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The extraction of the principle occurs in the mind. That's correct. Okay. So when you say you extract the laws of logic from the universe,

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I just gave you, you extract the idea of physical object moving. You can extract certain properties and characteristics of a physical thing.

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You said, agree. Now you want to do the same thing with an object, with somehow the laws of logic.

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So can you show me how the laws of logic can fall through space so that we can measure them as these objects are?

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Show me their connection. I can tell you what we do with logic. This is how we look. We look around the world around us and we take a look at dogs and we extract from that all dogs are mammals.

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And until we find a reason to believe that that statement is false, then that universal logical statement is extracted from the world around us.

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And then we go further and we symbolize that. And then we manipulate it within a logical system.

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And that's how logic occurs. And that's how logical systems are created.

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And we develop techniques for showing its consistency or inconsistency, its completeness or incompleteness, its coherence or incoherence.

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And that's how logic works. It begins with our encounter with the world around us. And we extract models out continually, continually, and manipulate them in such a manner that helps us predict the world around us and deal with the world around us.

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These are tools. The tools are abstractions. So dogs and mammals are concepts.

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So you're presupposing the laws of logic in order to extract them. Dogs and mammals are concepts.

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By your definition, concepts are of the mind only. Dogs and mammals are obviously of the world around us.

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Wow. Are you serious? You're really serious. This is how you want to proceed.

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You're the one who has defined this map. You define conceptual as of the mind only.

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Dogs and mammals are not of the mind only. So if I perceive a dog, is my perception occurring in my mind?

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Sure. Okay. So whether the dog exists or not is irrelevant.

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Well, I'm going to say it that way. My perception occurs only in my mind, right?

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Your perception occurs only in your mind? Okay, I'll go with that. Sure. Okay.

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Is my perception the same thing as the dog? No, of course not. Okay. So perception and the object that is perceived are different in nature.

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That's correct. Okay. So when I perceive something, I'm not... Well, when

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I perceive something, it's something that only occurs in the mind. Let's just leave it at that. It's an abstraction that occurs.

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So your perception... So you say all dogs are mammals. So you see a dog, you have an abstraction that occurs.

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You identify it. You presuppose the validity of the law of identity. You're presupposing it by saying that's dog and all.

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And mammals, you're making a logical conclusion. You don't extract this. You can't extract it from the...

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You don't understand. You can't extract these logical principles out of objects.

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These things are done in the mind. No, you presuppose the laws in order to do the extraction.

29:17

Matt, the world is not someplace... The laws of logic are not things that are imposed upon the world around us.

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That's why there are so many different forms of logic. That's why there's so many different definitions of logical identity, which

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I have sent to you in emails. That's why there are so many different logical systems, so many different definitions of contradiction and identity within logical structures, because we extract different things from the world around us and we construct different logical systems to deal with those different perceptions.

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It is our encounter with the world around us where it begins. It does not begin with some ephemeral world of logical properties that everything must fit into.

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If it did that, then you would not have many different definitions of contradiction, many different definitions of identity, which indeed we do.

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To even have a definition presupposes a law of identity. You don't want a definition to have different ones.

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Okay, then how do you explain that there's many different definitions of identity and many of those definitions are contradictory to each other?

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Because people are inconsistent in their minds, as you are. Yeah, so are you.

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And that's why if you have looked at many different logical systems...

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How would you recognize an inconsistency? But by applying the law of logic. The law of logic is not produced in your mind.

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It's not the product of your mind or my mind. Our minds are different. If I died, the law of logic doesn't disappear.

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They... my point is still the same. There are many different logical systems. There are many different definitions of identity.

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These definitions are inconsistent with each other. How do you justify...

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The reason they are is because they are based upon... How do you justify the idea that there's many different systems?

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Because I've studied many different logical systems that have been created by men because of their encounters with the world around them.

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So you've studied them, but that occurs in your mind. Yeah. So you presuppose the laws of logic in order to do that.

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No, but again, we presuppose that we first encounter the world around us.

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And from that encounter, we extract different things from our sense perceptions. And again, if you are correct, then the laws of identity should not vary.

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But they do. Even Greg Bonson taught this. And he defended it vehemently. That the laws of logic vary.

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And that is what I've been trying to tell you, is that within many different logical systems, you have...

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And if they are universal, it is your job to show that they are universal and how you can have conflicting definitions of these laws and it be universal still.

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Are you saying then that something is... The law that something is what it is, is not always true?

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Correct. So there's actually times when something exists that it's not really what it is itself as it exists, but it's existing.

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Okay. I sent you an example of this that's called temporal logic. I also sent you one that was called vague logic.

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I also sent you one that was called free logic, where you have different definitions of these things. Temporal logic, where A is identical to A within a given time...

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Hold on, hold on. A is given within a class of objects, so that they are not identical objects, but they belong to the same class.

32:54

Okay, so here's a pair of tweezers. So it's a pair of tweezers. And okay, so are you saying that there's times when this isn't what it really is?

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If you take that pair of tweezers and you put it on a table and you leave it there long enough, it will deteriorate to the point to where it's no longer a pair of tweezers.

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Therefore, it is identical to itself right now within a given time frame. Oh, well,

33:19

I don't have any problem with that. You could take a piece of wood and you can burn it and it's no longer wood. It's just carbon and then you can...

33:26

That's right. That's not a big deal. But then you would know that the wood no longer is wood.

33:37

It's something else. So now you have the law of identity being consistent. Wood is what it is.

33:43

And whatever turns into carbon is what it is. It's still true. No, because again, it's only true within a given time frame.

33:53

I've sent you emails on these things and you're simply not understanding that a law of logic is only true within a given logical structure.

34:01

You must have a metallurgical structure. Your logical system must be consistent. It must be complete.

34:07

And if you don't have that, then you don't have a logical system. And I've also shown you how if you have a universal law of logic, it is going to yield a contradiction as true.

34:19

It is by definition incomplete. And that has been proven that it's going to happen that way.

34:25

So therefore, if it's going to be universal, it's going to be incomplete and it's going to yield a contradiction as true. If you're going to have it being consistent, it is going to have to be finitely defined and have a given scope and range of meaning.

34:38

Now, I'll go back on this for a little bit. I know Andrew wants to ask some questions. Notice what I said, this is a pair of tweezers.

34:45

I didn't say what it will become. You continually misrepresent what

34:50

I say. You change things. You're not consistent in how you present your argument.

34:56

This is a pair of tweezers. Is it true that it is a pair of tweezers? Sure. Okay, so that is a true statement.

35:03

Is there any time when the statement, this is a pair of tweezers, is not true?

35:10

It is a pair of tweezers within a certain time frame. Therefore, the identity of...

35:17

We can say A is identical to a pair of tweezers. That is a logical statement. Therefore, logic deals in statements, not in objects.

35:24

Therefore, when we say A is identical to A within a certain time frame, if you set it on your table, at some point it will deteriorate to where it's not a tweezers.

35:37

So, in other words, A equals A, is that true? First of all, you're misusing your terms.

35:45

A is equal to A is not the same as saying A is identical to A. A is equal to A is an arithmetic term.

35:51

A is identical to A is a logical term. You're misusing your terms. Which term do you want to use?

35:58

Which term do you want to use? Two cherries is equal to two oranges, but they're not identical.

36:04

Which term do you want to use for the law of identity? A is identical to A.

36:10

Okay, so is it always true that A is identical to A? Within a certain time frame, yes.

36:17

Or within a certain class of objects, sure. Okay, so the statement A is identical to A can also not be true?

36:25

Correct. Blue sleeps faster than Wednesday. Well, now you're getting away from the topic.

36:36

You can have a class of apples. That includes red apples, yellow apples, and crab apples.

36:43

You can say that class is identical to that class. But to say that red apple is identical to crab apple is not also true.

36:52

So you can say A is identical to A in terms of a class, but it's not identical to A in terms of the individual parts. Matt, I think he totally missed your point.

36:58

Yeah, he does. Yeah, he doesn't get it. Let me ask you something,

37:04

Andrew, real quick. First off, you did make a statement about absolutes, and I'm curious whether the statement you made applies to the statement itself.

37:15

Well, you're about to commit the vicious circle fallacy when you're using illegitimate totalities.

37:21

It is not self -refuting to say that I can use logic to show that logic is not logical. It is not self -refuting to say that I can show using logic that the laws of logic are not universal.

37:34

It is not self -refuting because it's a level of logic. Your statement has to do with how we determine it.

37:39

But let me ask you this, because I just have one question before we move on that I'd like to work out with you.

37:47

You said that logic is the product of human minds.

37:56

No, I said it's an extraction of our intelligence. It's the law of the world around us. Where does logic come from?

38:03

It comes from humans. It is humans that do logic. It is not us. Do you believe, and I think this is where Matt was trying to go, the second law of logic, the law of non -contradiction, do you believe that's always true?

38:18

No. So you accept contradictions? No. So you're wrong. Correct.

38:25

Yes, you're wrong. No, because we have contradictions. No. You're wrong.

38:31

No. I can show that there's contradictions, a different definition of contradictions.

38:37

Manager, you accept contradictions. Therefore, in your worldview, you can be wrong and right.

38:45

If you believe that you're right and I'm wrong, then you're borrowing from my worldview and you don't accept contradictions.

38:53

So if your worldview is correct, you're wrong and I'm right in saying it. If you think

38:59

I'm wrong in saying it, then you're not living in your worldview, you're living in my worldview. So let's start with this.

39:06

Are there contradictions? Okay. Listen close.

39:12

Within different logical systems, there are different definitions of contradictions. What is a contradiction?

39:19

So you got to try to stay on topic. I know it's hard for you because you really can't...

39:26

I know you're trying to trap man and I, and it doesn't work unless you kind of do fallacies of jumping everywhere else.

39:33

So you accept contradictions, correct? I accept different definitions of contradiction.

39:38

I'm not talking about different definitions. Well, that's what I'm... I'm talking about the law of logic, the second law, or the law of non -contradiction.

39:46

You don't think that's correct. Okay, hang on. Let's assume for a moment that you are correct, that the law of non -contradiction is universal.

39:57

Then how do you explain different definitions of contradiction that contradict each other? Because we're not talking about the definition. We're talking about the law of logic.

40:06

Okay. So if you're committing a fallacy of equivocation, so... No, I'm not. Yes, you are, because you're using the word two different ways.

40:14

We're talking a law, you're talking a definition. So it's two different concepts. So you said that the logic, the laws of logic are the product of human beings.

40:24

Is that correct? Yes, it is humans that do logic. So you and I would agree there was a time before there were human beings, correct?

40:34

Correct. Okay. Could the universe have existed and not existed in the same way and the same time before there was a human being?

40:45

Sure. It could. Sure. Okay. Then you don't accept the laws of logic.

40:51

Because once you accept the contradiction... Hang on. I'm assuming your definition of the law of non -contradiction.

40:59

I am saying that I will accept that as true. Then how do you explain that there are different definitions of contradiction and identity?

41:10

How do you do that? What are the different definitions for the law of non -contradiction? Okay. Within modal logic, there's three different forms of modal logic that have different definitions of contradiction.

41:23

There is modal identity that has different definitions of contradiction. There are free logics that have different definitions of contradiction.

41:33

You haven't given them yet. So I'll try this again.

41:40

Give me the different definitions for the law of non -contradiction.

41:46

Okay. Within modal systems that use necessity and possibility, they will say that A is possibly true or A is possibly false.

41:59

And they will use the negation of that, that A is not not possibly true or A is not not possibly false.

42:11

Still waiting for the different definitions. You're talking about the possibilities which would impact in the case of non -contradiction.

42:19

So I'll ask this a third time. What are the different definitions for the law of non -contradiction?

42:27

Okay. A contradiction is A and not A in propositional logic. In modal logic, it would be not possibly not or not necessarily not is the definition of contradiction within a modal system.

42:43

Depending on the scope and range of meaning of necessity and possibility will determine whether or not it contradicts with one of the other systems.

42:50

And the systems are defined by the scope and range of meaning. So you have different definitions of contradiction within those systems.

42:58

I just gave you two of them. You gave me a wrong definition for one and a fallacy for the other.

43:07

So let's look at it. The definition for the law of non -contradiction is that you cannot have

43:13

A and not A in the same way and at the same time. Now, you then give a different definition for a different thing, not the law of non -contradiction, but the law of modal non -contradiction, which now we get into the logical fallacy of equivocation because you're trying to equivocate them as the same when they're actually different identities.

43:36

So I guess let's assume you're right. You're wrong. We all got to see that.

43:42

And you can't argue against it because you accept contradictions. And the only thing you could do is appeal to what we believe to tell us that you're right and we're wrong.

43:53

But Matt and I both agree and know that you're wrong. And you can't disagree. OK, first of all, first of all,

44:00

I'm a Christian man. So therefore, let's put that aside. So we share the common worldview.

44:06

Second of all, the... So, OK, let me let's check that. So is

44:12

Jesus Christ God? Yes. Why did he die? I am a Trinitarian, yes.

44:17

Why did he die? He died for the redemption of everything that fell in the fall.

44:26

According to the scripture. The redemption of everything that fell in the fall. OK, so all human beings?

44:33

All human beings and all of creation that fell without him.

44:39

So would all human beings be a child of God? No. Are all human beings redeemed?

44:49

No. But you just said he died for the redemption of all human beings.

44:55

That's correct. How could he have died for the redemption of all human beings, and yet they're not all redeemed? Because there's something other at play, other than because Christ died for all does not necessitate that all are saved.

45:06

What does it mean to die for all? What does it mean? Well, according to John 1, 29, behold, the

45:13

Lamb of God, which comes to take away the sin of the world. Sin is referring to the fallenness. World is referring to all of creation.

45:19

So therefore, it is a biblical mandate that and within the spectrum of how

45:25

Christ died for, in some way, he died for everything that fell.

45:36

But because he died for all does not mean that all will be redeemed. No. So he redeemed everything.

45:48

When did that happen? When did it happen? And when did everything get redeemed?

45:55

Christ died on the cross. So the universe is now redeemed? He died for the redemption at that point.

46:02

The fulfillment of the redemption could happen at death. It could happen in salvation.

46:08

It could happen at the destruction of all of creation. According to Ephesians 1, 10, at the fulfillment of time, all things in heaven and earth will be gathered up, even in him.

46:23

So all of creation has a part in redemption at some point. Can you explain?

46:32

It's interesting because each time we ask you, son, you keep switching things and not staying consistent.

46:39

So it's kind of hard. So Christ died for what purpose?

46:47

To redeem. To redeem. Why? Why? Because God loves.

46:57

Okay. Loves what? He loves his creation.

47:07

He loves—it is his nature to love. God is love. Is God wrath?

47:16

We are never told that God is wrath, even though that is an attribute of God. So is he angry with the wicked?

47:25

Well, sure. But anger is not an essential characteristic of God. Again, we are told that God is love.

47:31

We're never told that God is anger. We're never told that God is wrath. So you believe that Christ died to redeem everything that fell in the fall.

47:46

That's correct. Because of his love. According to the scripture, yes. Yeah. Yeah, I'll end up agreeing with John in the chat that your understanding of soteriology is as good as your understanding of logic, but both are failing.

48:03

So Christ died because people violated his law.

48:10

There are sinners and criminals in his sight, and he paid a fine. He paid a price.

48:18

That's only one aspect of the sacrifice of Christ. To limit it to the debt payment of sin is to water down the scope and range of meaning of the sacrifice of Christ.

48:31

Romans 5 .20 completely destroys that notion, because it says where sin has abounded, grace has abounded even more.

48:40

And that completely destroys the idea of debt repayment of the sacrifice of Christ.

48:47

There's more than one aspect of the sacrifice of Christ. There's an aspect of Christ that is, to use the technical terms, is propitiation, expiation, and atonement.

48:58

He expiated for all of creation, propitiated for all of mankind, and he atoned for believers.

49:04

So there's three different aspects of the sacrifice of Christ. So do you believe that God is absolute?

49:14

Yes. Do I believe that God is absolute? What do you mean by absolute? Is he a universal being that doesn't change?

49:24

I don't know. You don't know? Mm -hmm. Yet scripture describes him as being someone that doesn't change?

49:33

That's correct. But we also see that he does change in scriptures. How? Where does he change?

49:41

This is now back to the law of identity.

49:50

Well, clearly the way he redeemed mankind during the flood was very different than the way he redeemed mankind in the temple, and very clearly he redeemed differently on the cross.

50:02

That's a fallacy of a provocation. The word redeemed is not being used the same way in each of those cases.

50:12

You're saying that people have their payment of sin made and have eternal life by getting onto a boat?

50:21

No. I'm saying, again— And how are they— That God doesn't change, and that's what the scriptures said, and I agree with you.

50:30

But we also see that in scriptures that God deals with different people in different ways, redeemed in different ways, and we see that in the sacrifice of Christ in a different way.

50:44

So you're trying to say that people are redeemed the same way Noah was redeemed by getting onto a boat?

50:51

I'm saying that you're the one who raised the question. Did God change?

50:57

I gave you an example. No, but you didn't give me a proper example because you're using a logical fallacy of equivocation in your example.

51:05

Therefore, your example is flawed. For someone that wants to come in and talk about the nature of logic,

51:11

I would expect that you would not use logical fallacies in your arguments. So you're using redeemed in three different ways.

51:22

Do you recognize that? Um, actually, I'm referring to the sacrifice of Christ, and then using three different terms to describe the different aspects of the sacrifice of Christ.

51:33

Okay, so you're saying that the sacrifice of Christ was when

51:39

Noah and his family got onto a boat? Okay, let me expand this a little bit if you don't mind.

51:46

Let me get— We have— I gotta get to—I didn't mention the Super Chat, and we just got another, so let me take a timeout and do this because we should.

51:55

And Matt, there'll be a question for you. So NavTimer1884 gave two

52:03

Super Chats. He just gave—I'm going to start with his later one first,

52:09

Matt. And for folks to know that when you give a Super Chat, and you can do that just in the chat window there on YouTube with a little dollar sign, that money goes to CARM .org,

52:19

help support CARM. It does not help Striving for Eternity, who puts this on, so if you want to donate to Striving for Eternity, please go over to strivingforeternity .org

52:28

slash donate. So NavTimer gave $20, Matt, and he said he's giving $20, giving this donation, hoping we can move on from Unicorn Dude.

52:40

Yeah, I lost it just a minute ago. In a way of moving on from—I guess that is manager's nickname, is

52:48

Unicorn Dude, sorry. I guess it's from his opening. But Matt, earlier when manager came in there,

52:57

NavTimer gave $20. That's $40 that he gave total so far tonight. And here is the question that he had for you.

53:04

So this is one way you can guarantee to get a question asked is give a Super Chat. So Matt would appreciate any advice.

53:13

I work under a boss that is Catholic. He knows I'm Baptist. And I'm confident he has a grudge against me, gives me a hard time, etc.

53:25

I pray for him daily. Any advice for this situation? He's a what?

53:32

He's a Catholic. And his boss is

53:38

Catholic. He's Baptist. So he feels that his boss knows that he's a

53:43

Baptist and has a grudge against him because of the religious difference, gives him a hard time.

53:49

He prays for him but doesn't know what else he could be doing. Any advice that you could have?

53:56

And push Jesus, going just to Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins. I always tell people do that.

54:03

Pray for them, of course. I would just tell the person that what he needs to do is—I do the

54:13

Catholics. Can you trust Jesus? Can you pray to Jesus? Yes. Can you ask him to forgive you of your sins? Yes.

54:18

If you do, are all your sins forgiven? Yes. Why do you need the Catholic Church? Just do it like that.

54:25

I guess part of the thing being when you work for someone, that does make it a little bit more difficult.

54:32

I mean, the issue there would, I would think, I mean, one thing as a Christian, you want to be the best worker that you can and that way it's harder for them to give you a hard time.

54:49

But, you know, a good way of that I would say doing advice I would have, take, invite him out to lunch, offer to buy lunch if you can afford it, and just ask him straight out.

55:01

You know, to me, it seems like you hold a grudge. It seems you give me a hard time. Maybe it's because of our different religious beliefs.

55:09

You know, I pray for you daily. Let him know that and see if there really is something there.

55:16

Uh, see if he really does hold a grudge. You never know the reaction it's going to be. I had a situation with someone at a secular job many years ago who used to use

55:27

Jesus Christ's name all the time as foul language. It really bothered me. And I don't usually ask people to watch their language,

55:36

Matt. You're not going to have to. Yeah, I mean, but when it's using Christ's name, that I think is a little different.

55:42

And I decided to do something. I took the guy out for lunch, and I paid for lunch, and I said

55:47

I wanted to talk to him. And I said, listen, you know, I know you don't believe in Jesus Christ, but I do.

55:52

He's someone I love very dearly. And when you use his name as foul language, it really hurts me and bothers me.

55:59

And I care for you. That's why I wanted to take you out and let you know how it makes me feel because I'm sure you don't want to be purposely hurtful to folks.

56:12

And he ended up never doing it around me again. Now, it turns out there was a guy who claimed to be a believer who

56:18

I didn't think really was. And this guy used Christ's name as foul language, apologized to me.

56:26

The other guy was like, how come you don't ever apologize for me when you do that? And the guy turns to him and says, because Andrew actually believes what he says.

56:34

And it was like an ouch moment. But that's one of the things I would try to very tactfully just ask him and say, look,

56:44

I care about you. I pray for you. But to me, I could be wrong.

56:49

Always assume that you could be wrong in that and say, you know, maybe this is me reading into it, but, you know, is there something there?

56:56

Is there something we can work on together so we can work together in harmony? You know, one of the things

57:02

I did, I have some Mormons that have been visiting every week. And yeah,

57:08

I know it's been cool. They keep coming back. One of the tricks is before they leave, I make sure we set up the next appointment so that and, you know, what we're going to discuss the next appointment.

57:19

But they asked, why am I wanting to meet with him? And I don't shy away from it.

57:24

I said, look, I believe you're wrong. You believe I'm wrong. See, now, what do you do when you say that? That you're not saying that they're wrong without recognizing they think you're wrong.

57:33

So you're putting it on an even playing field. And I say, I believe that you're, you know, you're not going to heaven.

57:41

You believe I'm not going to heaven. And so I put it on an even playing field so we understand we both hold to these views.

57:49

And that's one way that I try to do it to say, look, we're both in this. You're Roman Catholic and you believe I'm not

57:54

Christian. I'm a Baptist. I believe you're not a Christian. We both agree this about each other.

58:00

So you could start there. I did that with the Mormons. I said, you believe, you know, you believe that I have a gospel that needs to be restored.

58:07

I believe we always have had the gospel and yours is made up. And so this is the way we both view each other.

58:14

So that's how I would approach it. And he just gave another $20 super chat that says, great advice, guys.

58:20

Really appreciate it. Never thought of lunch idea. God bless. So that's a total of $60.

58:26

Thank you very much. Carm appreciates that very much. The next one.

58:34

Well, let's see. We have a choice now because the traditional Catholic stepped out and others came in.

58:40

We go with the original order or we go to Cat. I'll leave it to you, Matt, Cat or Catholic?

58:49

Ladies first. Same three letters. Well, see, that's the whole thing. Now I don't know how to say if I look on the list now.

58:55

The list now has Cat is next. We'll go with Cat because she may be quicker.

59:03

So let me add her into broadcast and bring up her mic. And then what we'll do is we'll go to someone that may give us a commercial break.

59:14

But Cat, did you have a question for us? Well, like I said on the side there,

59:19

I don't know if quicker. Now I'm kind of inspired to take my time because of that. However.

59:26

Wow. I was born 43 years ago.

59:32

No, I guess I've been seeing a lot of this lately where people on Facebook, things like that, you know, who are

59:38

Christian, you're seeing them profess the word. And, you know, granted, we never know what's in one another's hearts unless you're really face to face with him on a pretty frequent basis.

59:48

But I'm seeing a lot of people who are now just suddenly running from God. Oh, well, you know, I believe in God.

59:54

But, you know, the Christians that say this and it's scripture, you know, it's not like I made it up and I'm saying this because of my belief.

01:00:01

But this is what the Bible is telling us and in very obvious terms.

01:00:06

And I'm seeing a lot of this lately where people who are claiming that they're Christians, they're saying that and they're saying the words,

01:00:13

I love God. And their actions are completely opposite of this and of the

01:00:19

Bible. And I guess I'm asking you guys what your thought is, your viewpoint is for people like where does that come from?

01:00:26

If you can get to the point that you say that you love God and they feel they genuinely do or you it seems genuine in a sense, but the teachings of the

01:00:37

Bible, they dismiss them, they pick and choose, but they're going to profess in a very passionate manner that love for God and for Christianity.

01:00:46

So I'm not sure. Is this that Satan has them deceived to think that they're Christian? I don't know.

01:00:53

And I don't even know if I properly explained that. You're just talking about the differences of subjectivity.

01:00:59

How do we know if someone's really saved or not? They're going to have different levels of experience, of knowledge, different levels of experience and sanctification.

01:01:05

And so it's difficult to discern who really is saved or not saved if you look at their fruit.

01:01:11

And so it just takes a while and it's not just a direct thing. So yeah,

01:01:17

I guess I mean, I just I guess for me, it's hard to go. I love God. I'm a Christian.

01:01:23

But what's in the Bible is just make believe. And, you know, well, this is make believe, but not this.

01:01:29

And and then they just walk away all of a sudden. And I know, you know, then they were truly not saved.

01:01:34

But still, you're professing that love. It's hard for me to understand to profess that, but not feel it.

01:01:40

I just wouldn't profess it, I guess. Well, people, you know, there's true and false converts, true and false repentance.

01:01:48

Second Corinthians 7, 10, I think it is or 10, 7, 7, 10. And it's just it.

01:01:53

So how do you know you judge them by the fruit? You know, and they say they love the Lord, believe what they say. If they leave the faith, then we know that they were never saved to begin with.

01:02:01

Because that's part of the revelation of Scripture. Right, right. I guess it's just hard for me to understand, because for me, it's just obvious.

01:02:08

But thank you guys for that. All right. So what

01:02:14

I'm going to do, just because I have a theory, I'm going to see if I'm right, but I'm going to bring in Five Solos Ministries before our

01:02:22

Catholic friend, just because, well, I have a feeling we may get a commercial break right now.

01:02:28

But because James from Five Solos Ministries was recording just as we went live,

01:02:35

Matt, he was he decided to use Thursday, eight o 'clock Eastern time to announce a new product.

01:02:43

So don't you think we should get him to make that announcement right here? Yeah, whatever.

01:02:48

I guess we have to. I mean, you're wearing a t -shirt he sent. Oh, that's right. I am, aren't I? Yeah. So, James, let's see.

01:02:56

Did I turn up his volume? Yes. Are you there, James? Yeah, I'm here.

01:03:03

I'm sure the Catholics are tickled about someone with the Five Solos going before them.

01:03:09

Okay. Yeah, what would be an equivalent for the Five Solos for Catholics?

01:03:16

Sola Popola? No, no, no, no, no. Sola Popola? Sola Ecclesia, because it'd be the church.

01:03:25

Sola Ecclesia, that's true. Sola Hymnola? Sola Workalata. Well, it would be, let's think about this and we'll have our, maybe correct us.

01:03:36

So wouldn't be it wouldn't be scripture alone. So it'd have to be Church since the church is the one that interprets scripture.

01:03:44

It's really church alone because they're the What's the opposite of Sola? I?

01:03:51

mean many Lotta a lot of tradition.

01:03:57

That's right a lot of heresy a lot of Not scripture, but I'd be a lot of authority a lot of a lot of authority the solar versus a lot of He's thinking of t -shirt ideas so James now that you just spun up our

01:04:17

Catholic friend here he comes in So, what do you got for us?

01:04:23

We just released a whole bunch of new shirt designs of New shirts, so Matt you actually got the last of that that shirt material.

01:04:32

We went to a much much softer This is also not cotton is it

01:04:41

It is cotton. It's that one's pretty strong cotton. So it's not gonna shrink your wife asked me if that was gonna shrink

01:04:46

I was like, it's a no danger of shrinking. The only way it's gonna get smaller is if you put on weight It's gonna get a lot bigger you want to I can nuke it

01:04:56

I can nuke it in the dryer, right? Yeah, there you go my philosophy of washing clothes is

01:05:02

Everything goes into one big lump of cold cold water and then from there everything gets lumped into a dryer

01:05:10

I nuked a crap out of it. Whatever survives. That's what I wear I have a different philosophy instead of washing the clothes.

01:05:18

We just buy new ones That works except I'm broke all the time. I do that or make new ones rather Yeah, yeah, we could you know, oh we wear our underwear

01:05:29

And socks tell you they become so hard and they're like shurikens Okay, Matt you asked for it.

01:05:36

Let me let me There I don't know if this is gonna work

01:05:43

But I got to try this and I'm gonna share my screen and Let me know if you hear this because I think this is

01:05:53

I think I have found a video It's three minutes long Matt, but I think this describes What you just What you were just saying this is this is for folks who need to find this

01:06:08

I just searched for magic magic table that cleans itself And you haven't watched this video.

01:06:15

I think this really describes Matt. So let's let's Don't make sure let me know if make me a thumbs up for chicken here

01:06:27

You gotta hit play yes, I just first have to make sure they're technical, you know Can't understand

01:06:42

Because of it because you're hearing the background noise Don't know

01:06:47

I just can't it's just it's all broken up. So can you say anything they're saying? No, I'm gonna try it again Okay, maybe

01:07:05

I have been getting it a little bit easier than you but it's just because Well, he goes

01:07:11

I've been doing something behind your back secretly Yeah, okay.

01:07:20

So there's a lot of cupboards in this room, right one that looks different from the others Expected only

01:07:29

I can say you've got to have a clear mind if you think outside the box like I do This one opens from the top.

01:07:39

Oh All right, and we're just getting warmed up You're gonna think I'm crazy, but any dirty dish pots pans plates, whatever you sit in these rack things

01:07:49

Somehow the next day they're all replaced with brand new exact replicas in these cupboards

01:07:55

Yes, very funny. I knew you wouldn't believe me. You're gonna have to see for yourself. I'm pretty sure

01:08:00

I know how it works No, you don't close it. I did that once nothing happened You just got to load up these racks back away slowly and leave the house

01:08:08

That's why I've been going to the pub in the movie so much by myself lately just to keep this thing going fast But you what

01:08:14

I don't think it means any harm. It just wants to help Like seriously, I've hidden dirty plates stacks of glasses and shit all over the house

01:08:22

And it doesn't seem to matter as long as the doors left open. It still reaches them and replaces them all brand -new

01:08:29

So you're seriously telling me that you don't know what this machine is. Don't call it a machine. It doesn't like it

01:08:34

Remember you went to Wendy's hen's weekend. I caught it that once and it stopped doing it for two days I think it was a warning it feeds off like spiritual harmony like a good version of paranormal activity paranormal activity

01:09:05

As he's putting a camera on I'm so sorry. This is all my fault.

01:09:11

I set up a hidden camera last night to catch the house spirit in action and It seems the spirit is a demon it has possessed you and is forcing you to perform its duties

01:09:24

You guys are both in that case I did all of that cleaning knowingly using oxyclean boosters a jack sanitizer dental disinfectant wipes

01:09:31

Oh my god, she's speaking in tongues. You understand any of that? Okay, so I believe that's how

01:09:42

Matt does his I actually didn't see that one There's they have a whole series of them that they had one on the magic table

01:09:50

Table and it magically disappears and and everything just is gone by the morning and then he has his

01:09:56

Laundry basket magically just throws everything it just leaves it works And it only works around the magic women too, yeah,

01:10:05

I mean it's really funny the one with the the Magic basket is classic because it's two police officers.

01:10:11

They're trying to figure out where where she she left She leaves them and he goes maybe she fell into the magic basket

01:10:19

Because on the magic table, which just everything disappears, whatever you put on there. It's appears by morning.

01:10:25

I like that I need some of that. Oh, you'll love that So maybe that's what you did.

01:10:30

So I'll bring James back up now. He's probably in his car James Yeah, I didn't know they had a whole series

01:10:37

I didn't I only knew the one until I saw there's actually three or four up there I grabbed magic cupboard because I hadn't seen that one before Yeah, so now we know what

01:10:47

Matt's gonna do later tonight Searching magic cupboard magic basket magic table.

01:10:53

He's probably he's already on YouTube now searching This is this is heavy -duty karma research that he's gonna be doing tonight

01:11:03

So that means that if I want to be a godly woman I need to stop doing the dishes

01:11:08

Stop doing the housework and all of that stuff because I really don't want to be associated with a demonic presence

01:11:16

Our Catholic friends can help you out with a priest He can help us but he was

01:11:23

I guess reincarnated as as You know Eli, so maybe maybe that's what we're gonna end up having but So James, what do you have what what you have for us tonight?

01:11:40

Oh, man, we just We're really we're launching all of our lineups for the women.

01:11:46

Evidently. There's a lot of women out there that like stuff, too. So We just released our tote bags a lot of different shirt designs phone cases.

01:11:56

That's new So, I mean, we're just we're just trying to go all in with it, you know, just trying to Have as much material as possible for everyone

01:12:05

Could you get a t -shirt that says reformed women make better sandwiches Okay, you're smiling

01:12:28

I know you're smiling I want you I want you I want to see like get a t -shirt that says

01:12:39

Reformed women make better sandwiches When he puts it on If you

01:12:46

I know James I know you've done some martial arts and I know that you know martial arts if you can throw really quick punches and kicks

01:12:53

It's a good but if you want to see quick just watch Neeks hands as she smacks him

01:13:05

Motion she stopped hitting me Cat just gave me a great idea new fundraiser for karm

01:13:26

Okay Can't smack you Matt we could we could do a fundraiser

01:13:32

Whoever bids the highest gets to smack you in her place, but it's arm hits or shoulder

01:13:39

Dollars. Okay, shoulder hits are fine. Whatever. You know, that's what it is She always hits me in the shoulder, but lately she can't because of her health, but you know,

01:13:47

I miss him So I think I think we this is a great fundraiser You know, we can do bidding to see who can who can replace

01:13:54

Nick for hitting you I like this idea Well, you know

01:14:03

James James is identifying as a girl if he gets to hit you oh no, no, I know a guy

01:14:08

I know a guy if he were to sign up he I literally watched him. This is no joke.

01:14:14

He benched 400 pounds 13 times You imagine like I won

01:14:19

I get to hit you. Oh I'm gonna be in the hospital for a week. No, you know that the the female as the female winner for for lifting power lifting man

01:14:32

Yeah, because a gender thing. Yep. Yeah, it's insane. There's a lawsuit going I heard about that where with these girls in high school and stuff.

01:14:41

They're doing great and then these Transgender guys come in and kicked their butts and they get all the awards. It's just not fair.

01:14:47

It's just for it's the end of female sports Really what we're doing is we're preventing James from finishing his commercial.

01:14:53

Yeah, it's true. He's trying James How much what percentage goes to carm of all your sales this month?

01:15:00

15 % we just did a finished up this past weekend where we did 25 % of sales

01:15:07

We're gonna end up doing that running that again for them So for right now, it's 15 % of all the pills.

01:15:14

That's the t -shirts tracks Tote bags phone cases that the thing is what what makes it different is everything that we have is dedicated to reform theology language

01:15:27

You're not gonna have universalism or anything like that on the tracks. It's Matt got some of the tracks today I don't know if you check those out.

01:15:32

Yeah, we got him. I just haven't looked at him yet I'm in no buried fact as soon as we're done here at eight in an hour or whatever

01:15:38

I gotta be on the phone with somebody else talking about something. It's just one thing after another You know what

01:15:43

Matt I mean you you do a little bit of marketing type stuff for Carmen promotion and stuff

01:15:49

I mean when people think of you know, like Matt slick they think of harm. They think of harm org, right?

01:15:57

It's funny here's a guy trying to say hey we got these great products, you know, it's been missing in everything he said

01:16:03

What's his website? I mean, where do I mention to the radio today? I mean seriously, come on James Solasministries .com.

01:16:14

That's the number five Finally we had it's like pulling teeth to get him to give us the website five solas ministries .com.

01:16:26

All right It's so awesome, you'll get one sale for sure

01:16:42

I'm gonna send both of you the They make that sandwich,

01:16:53

I'm not paying for it, but if one of you if you guys buy it for me, I'll wear it All right, so I I added

01:17:06

Eli in here We a familiar boy. He's just waving to it There is a new face though Matt that I'm adding in here

01:17:13

I mentioned him a bit earlier in the beginning of the show and this is Jamal Bradley.

01:17:19

He is with prescribed truth broadcast good So, let's see if his mic is working

01:17:29

I'm here. Hey, wait me Yeah He looks like he's got melanin in his skin.

01:17:39

I Thought I thought you talk against like social justice doesn't doesn't that mean you have white privilege

01:17:48

Yes, it's covered up hey It's a bandy by the way,

01:17:54

Andy. Sorry, forgive me It's all good it happens all the time, how you doing everybody?

01:18:02

All right, how are you doing doing good? Put little man down and He's good to go.

01:18:08

And so I'm good to go wife. He's good to go. Good So so Jamal Matt is starting to look into and study intersectionality

01:18:21

Anything that you could give him for some thoughts to help him in that study I don't think

01:18:27

I've seen so far is the arguments basis item or The more you can intersect in in all the areas where you can call discrimination.

01:18:34

That's where And you're the better off you'll be so there there's a feminist movement and also to if you're a woman then if you're african -american or if some people try to say you're

01:18:47

Latino and all those things, but really it's black and so if you're black woman homosexual and You may struggle with your gender

01:18:57

Then I think you're you're pretty much the only person who can speak on anything that that matters with disabilities

01:19:03

That oh, yeah Disabilities, yeah Now see

01:19:09

Matt Matt has several. I mean, you know, I know I know that when we look at the intersectionality Matt, you know

01:19:15

Jewish people are not considered as you know, you can have a you know, someone who is even though Jews are like them you know are

01:19:25

You know Persecuted and whatnot in different places there. They don't seem to get any votes for you know intersectionality and Christianity people that are

01:19:36

Christians are Persecuted more around the world than any other religion, but that seems right you negative points for being

01:19:43

Christian But I'm wondering how many Matt would get well Matt has a point Eli can you'll verify with me if I'm right on this

01:19:51

Let's let's do the intersectionality points for Matt slicks. So we give him a point for disabilities right

01:19:58

He has some disability. I have autism or I'm autistic a little bit. Okay Age, he's he's old.

01:20:05

I'm 62 Sometimes we've seen him walk with a cane. Yeah, which is right back there.

01:20:11

Yeah, and By but by just turning and picking up socks that could throw his back.

01:20:17

So he's right. That's right picked up socks I opened the door last week and it hurt Hey, does this mean in the that paradigm the more victimized you are the more privileged you are though?

01:20:28

And it kind of a paradox yeah, it is no I was victimized because my last name is slick

01:20:35

Well, but that does that really count? Yes, it does. Oh heck. Yeah, I was beat up I was accosted because I was slick.

01:20:43

I had buck teeth and I was skinny. So I was victim I really was victimized quite a bit Oh, man

01:21:02

Well, my dad but my dad was in the but that was in the service we moved 26 times before I was 12 into 12 different elementary schools.

01:21:10

Hey, I get a lot of points cuz I had a rough childhood No, but but see what we have to take into account.

01:21:16

You're the new kid all the time I was always a new kid. You're so you're always a new kid and I Could it be that Matt Your sense of humor and style humor might get people to think you're being a jerk

01:21:38

No, because I have a great sense of humor See he's laughing so hard.

01:21:45

He doesn't want us to see it. That's why he's off -camera there like that. Oh Oh, no, I'm back in oh, oh, okay.

01:21:52

Oh the cat did that. Oh, yeah Okay, and he has a cat so that's a point because I mean smarter people have dogs

01:22:03

Cats are like a meal in Chinese, you know Just saying

01:22:14

I've got in trouble for eating cat, you know, because they were finding the neighborhood cats, but All right

01:22:23

So how many points does Matt have now three zero zero? I should have a lot Why does he have zero because all of his counseled out because he's white

01:22:40

White male white male, that's it So, I'm no I'm worthless No points.

01:22:46

I should be wiped out right? I should be killed and put in prison shouldn't I? So this is gonna get really funny because you know

01:22:51

Matt I don't know if you know that AOC is she now has a challenger for her seat Yeah, I heard and she is going to be running up because her whole argument is you know that her parents were were immigrants

01:23:03

And so she was doing all the intersectionality She's a woman and she's a child of immigrants and all this now

01:23:10

She's gonna be going up against an african -american Jamaican. So she's black Woman who actually is an immigrant not the child of an actual immigrant

01:23:19

So I think she's gonna lose all these intersectionality points. We're just gonna have to vote for her competitor

01:23:26

You know what? It sounds like she's gonna be worse I Don't know that anyone could be worse than AOC.

01:23:34

I mean we do have one one maybe redeeming quality of AOC It is entertaining to believe that she actually believes what she says

01:23:46

The things that come out of her mouth and the fact that she actually believes him is it's kind of entertaining But then it's really sad to see that people are actually thinking that's good.

01:23:55

I know it's so dangerous She's she is so ignorant of so many things

01:24:02

People voted for gosh Matt New York More yeah,

01:24:09

I know so Got a new podcast

01:24:16

He's joining us in the Christian podcast community. Well, he's not a new podcast. It's new to us. I should say and So, let me give

01:24:25

James a quick second to talk about his podcast with some of the things he discusses on there There so I started

01:24:31

I said James I met Jamal, I'm sorry The show so maybe that's it

01:24:39

I'm trying to get the old points like Matt, you know, and Just doesn't work It's not gonna work it's not gonna work.

01:24:48

Oh Yes, the podcast is called prescribed truth podcast. I started basically off of a

01:24:54

YouTube channel prescribed truth at youtube .com and Then I moved over to podcast and so I've been doing podcast in about a year now.

01:25:01

I really enjoying it just just doing apologetics and and dealing with different issues and just giving from a given my view from a reform perspective

01:25:12

So good much it good your reform. That's good like that. Oh Yeah, I used to be very charismatic

01:25:19

The Lord when the Lord saved me 2013. It was funny. I began to see in the scriptures For God's sovereignty in salvation before I even knew anything about Calvin and it is so good

01:25:31

And so and so when I began to know about reform theology, it was just like you just clicked, you know, just click

01:25:38

Why don't you for Matt's sake because Matt doesn't know your background You may describe the church that you started out in Because you were so bad bad church to start.

01:25:50

Oh Yeah, so, um Back in oh nine. I you know, I was agnostic You know,

01:25:56

I begin to just feel like I need to go back to church. So I went to a church it was rooted in Pentecostal ism

01:26:03

In apostolic church, but not like the tough apostolic where women wore pants and I mean couldn't wear pants and all that stuff like that But very charismatic

01:26:12

He was very manipulative. Our church was made up of mostly young people I think the oldest person in church was him.

01:26:18

He was 30 and he was 34 at a time. Oh and And it's very, you know very manipulative

01:26:25

He's a teach from the Old Testament a whole lot dealing with how we should obey laws and give first fruit offerings and You know sin offerings and all those things like and I remember and I tell you it's a funny story now

01:26:37

It was crazy. But I remember one time I didn't have much money and um, I know I was

01:26:43

I sinned You know, I did something wrong I can't remember exactly what I did But I knew it was wrong and I went to him and I have any money

01:26:49

It's all like I'm it's kind of it's embarrassing a little bit, but I had brought on my sneakers I had like some fresh

01:26:55

Air Forces. It's like like two or three pair and I was like I haven't worn I was like, it's like man.

01:27:01

I said I said apostle. I don't I don't have any money I said, but um, I wanted to offer these instead. He's just like, thank you

01:27:10

He's like, thank you and um That was just one But as time went on, you know

01:27:16

I live I had I was staying with my parents and then I end up living with him for you for about the remain Well about six seven months because of my parents they they knew something was wrong with the church

01:27:27

But you know, we was just we was just you know, we just felt like hey you you against our pastor you against us

01:27:32

You against God, you know And so I remember going to him and he was he would misquote the scripture where Jesus says who is my mother my brother?

01:27:39

But then they do the will of God And so when I everybody in our in our church were young we had issues with our families because of this church and he would

01:27:45

Quote that scripture well misquoted and he'll say well who is my mother or my father? But then they do the will of God So if they if they're not for you being in church

01:27:53

Then who are they if they're not for you being in God there? Who are they to you? Then you know obey God not your parents and so like completely dismissed the commandment about you know be honoring your father and your mother and Um, and we didn't know no better Like we didn't read the word, you know

01:28:07

My favorite book at the time was acts like I didn't know nothing about the laws and commandments like that You know,

01:28:13

I was very ignorant to all those things and um, he just took advantage of it the church end up going further downhill as he began to get into a lot of A fornication of church.

01:28:23

It was issues with that in the church and drugs and and all the kind of Yeah, it was um multiple people not just one, you know, he was married, you know, but it was it was tough the

01:28:38

Is you know, it's got it was it was deep, you know And I remember doing a time when I found out about it And like I said, we believe he was an apostle and we believe he had power

01:28:46

We knew we believe he had power from God that he can speak things into existence He can cause curses and all these things like that, you know, he was so we never wanted to step up against them

01:28:54

It was like, you know people were afraid to leave and I remember when I'm at a time when I found out everything else was going on like the drugs and everything else

01:29:02

It was like I wanted to go but I felt like I will be leaving my lifeline Like this is the like this is my connection to God He's all he's our voice between us and God and if I leave this church

01:29:13

And I'm gonna leave my connection with God and so I stayed in the Lord like in 2010 he passed away

01:29:22

He died in a church. He was headed out of town to a Conference he had speak at and on the way on the way there

01:29:29

Him the church. I couldn't go because I had to work that day. But um the van that was driving down the road the tire bus and it flipped and I'm he and along with three other people from the church passed away

01:29:43

Mmm, you know, I get I always kind of get a little emotional I talk about this but Yeah, yeah, they passed away and um, and I was in basically into the church the church split after that You know, yeah, so it was a couple years, you know,

01:29:58

I went to other churches after that, you know But it was just similar to the church. I was in just not as bad You know just you know still faulty teaching but just just not at all the extra stuff

01:30:08

And on in 2013, that's when I first heard the gospel But yeah, that was that church, but that church is that being in that church?

01:30:17

Is one of my driving forces behind doing prescribed truth? That's how I reason why I started it for wanting to help others who are in situations like myself

01:30:25

I'm in cults or in under manipulation strong manipulation and Is that I was trying to share the truth.

01:30:32

Does that happen a lot in a black community? um Yes it's my charismatic circles and mostly

01:30:40

I was saying that said a black community but mostly in like a lot of the black charismatic circles and and what

01:30:45

I've come to realize and you know, my the pastor I was under at the time like Think about I look at his past and who he was as an individual outside of the title.

01:30:55

He gave himself He had issues with his with his family with his father and his mother and that goes and that kind of shows to why he

01:31:02

Projected it to us as well and um, you know, he he got to a point I believe at one point he genuinely believed what he believed but at some point, you know, he just got greedy

01:31:12

You know, he saw he saw the power that he had was greedy and went forward Yeah There are other guys who

01:31:18

I know who are in charismatic circles asked like that who are just who are genuine in what they believe Don't go as far as he took it, you know

01:31:24

But that gene but that what I'm seeing is common and which which opens doors for stuff like that It's when pastors teach their flock that I am though.

01:31:33

I am the voice between you and God like I'm the pastor, right? You know, I'm you know I'm the one who you can come to if you want to get understanding if if you want to you know

01:31:42

Which you know it it's like a twist that they twist the trust of what we should have for pastors But we should be able to go to our pastors and gain understanding and get wisdom and stuff like that But it should not be the end -all be -all.

01:31:52

Well, that's how every cult starts And I mean that like we were talking earlier with the Catholic Church. That's where they started to go

01:31:58

Right, right. They started to set themselves up as the authority to interpret Scripture. And once you do that, you're done.

01:32:04

I mean, what right? God's word All you have That's right

01:32:11

Good stuff, man. I'm glad you're uh, I'm glad God, you know got you out of it and he's using you

01:32:18

Yeah, I'm most grateful face, especially when I started and I think what hit me the hardest Being a friend of my was talking about this we came up in the same church and I was

01:32:26

I was sharing with him Reformed theology, you know, he's coming to the faith and I was having questions about salvation

01:32:31

I'm gonna talk about God's sovereignty and salvation in election and um, it was funny man

01:32:37

He thought about something that I had thought about a long time ago He was like so you telling me like all those things that happened like so God already knew those things will happen

01:32:46

He already those things are already there You know and I was like, yeah, I said but the thing is it's like we don't understand

01:32:53

God's reasoning We don't know his reason for those things. But the way I look at it, it's like Those things happened for my good

01:33:01

They happen for my good and for his glory, you know, and I was like it wasn't for those things I wouldn't I can't say

01:33:07

I mean, I don't think I would value truth as much as I do You know, it's going through that false teaching like that You know so I know the dangers of being under false teaching under cult -like behaviors and so on so forth and If Lord to use that situation and not just myself, but there are other people's in that church

01:33:23

It was just unfortunate other people in that church who have yet to still come to the faith They've gone to other false teaching churches.

01:33:30

Just not they just they feel like they're okay because they're not in the church It's manipulative like they're not he's not being as badly.

01:33:36

He's not doing a sex He's not doing the drugs, but there's no gospel You know and they feel safe because they don't have that manipulate that manipulating pastor, you know

01:33:48

And so I just I see this is I see God's sovereignty and all of that at work You know, it was it was hard.

01:33:54

It was hard pill to swallow at first You know thinking about the people who passed away and right and everything but man, it's like at the end of day

01:33:59

I'm so I'm grateful thankful to the Lord for his grace and his mercy. Amen, man. I love hearing that Matt I mean, this is the you know, you think about for you and I we joke about being older, but I mean

01:34:12

As we look at Jamal, this is the next generation of apologists right here. How old are you Jamal? I turned 30 last

01:34:19

December December what? 20th, okay What are you

01:34:25

December 10th Matt? I'm 9th. Yeah, I'll be I'll be 63 Wow How's that do you have your

01:34:35

AARP card yet, I think I do actually and Social Security stuff.

01:34:40

Yeah, they're asking about that and things like that Yeah You see folks this is why

01:34:48

I have to buy Matt his lunch I mean, he's just yeah, he's gonna be on Social Security soon. He he can't afford lunch

01:34:54

For a lot of stuff he can't he not only is he not slick enough to buy me a meal

01:35:00

He couldn't afford it. If he did. Oh, it'll happen. And the more you you remind everybody about it when it does happen.

01:35:07

I Could be a bad day for you. I freely admit if you ever Me a meal and I will deserve all of the abuse you give me but it's gonna be plenty plenty

01:35:23

That day I am going to enjoy the fact that Actually, actually, you know, there's a clip here

01:35:31

Matt we could play and this is from the guys that did the after show and and others recognize this here

01:35:38

Let me play this for you Was the injury the one that helped you get the podcast back up?

01:35:44

Yeah, he did get the podcast. You know, he did it. Yeah dinner for that I Like the guys over there at the council, uh,

01:36:01

I agree with them You know you owe me a dinner or two. Yeah, that's right.

01:36:06

The funny thing is you Yeah, I know

01:36:12

I didn't show up to Manti that I You know, we had the best lady last year at Manti at McDonald's man.

01:36:19

Yeah, she ripped on me a lot. Yeah, that's right Everybody I try and forget about that. Oh That was great so so, uh, we got about 20 minutes left

01:36:30

Let me let me ask Jamal Jamal with with the questions you have on with apologetics and all

01:36:35

Any questions that you found really difficult to answer where maybe? You know matter

01:36:41

I might be able to help out Um, I found it very interesting when

01:36:47

I listened to you guys I think Matt was having a conversation with somebody a long time ago Wasn't that long ago?

01:36:53

Um, it was on the basis of dealing with science. I Was it's not like the dating issue.

01:37:00

I don't know. It's about people like the dating of things. Mm -hmm You know how some things are dated older and dealing with it

01:37:08

Carbon dating and stuff like that. Those are those are those are stuff that you know, I have a little difficulty with You know when they're dealing with as far as somebody acts, you know

01:37:17

But I just I just stand on what I know from scripture Well, you know, those are questions that I come up and I'm like, okay.

01:37:23

I wish I knew more about this area Yeah, I gotta study it too but what

01:37:30

I would recommend study it more go do the science section Yeah, but what I would recommend is getting some books

01:37:37

You go to Amazon look up problems with evolution and you'll find books that do

01:37:43

Various analyses and there are lots of problems with the illusionary theory Matt I'll throw this out to you.

01:37:50

By the way, I was supposed to mention to you Matt. Dr. Silvestro is in your town He just got in today.

01:37:57

Oh He did huh? Yeah, so he's gonna be trying it. He wants to get you and Mike Riddle together Okay, and you should actually

01:38:03

I mean you live in the same town as Mike I mean you you should probably try to get Mike to help write some of that stuff. He's got a bunch but dr

01:38:09

Silvestro's book I'll put it up here on the origin of kinds the full title is on the origin of kinds by means of creator

01:38:19

God and The preservation of souls for the struggle for eternity But on the origin of kinds can be you can get that at the striving for eternity striving fraternity at the store that's going to actually give you a lot of Stuff on on creation science and evangelism presuppositional apologetics.

01:38:38

So that is helpful I got a whole bunch of books. There's ones on Matt the one that you like is

01:38:44

Was it icons? Icons of evolution. I recommend that book. Yeah That's a good one

01:38:52

Andrew Andrew if you don't mind if I just interrupt real quick are what if I do mind I mean, is it

01:38:57

Jamal? Yes. Well, are you familiar with Jason Lyle? No, I'm not you want

01:39:05

I'm not sure if you are an old earth creationist or young earth creationist but Jason Lyle has a lot of stuff on Critiquing evolution from a presuppositional perspective and he is a

01:39:16

PhD astrophysicist. So he's very very well With that he is amazing

01:39:22

Down so you might want to look up the book ultimate proof for creation by Jason Lyle and anything else that he puts out

01:39:29

So, yeah, no, so that's that's all that's good and I'm more

01:39:34

I'm young earth but I was like, but um See me so difficult, right?

01:39:41

I'm trying to I'm trying to say like so is a dating issue more of an issue of evolution Anything is important because evolution needs large amounts of time in order to be justified because of information

01:39:55

Transference through mutations and progeny and things like that. And so I guess I'm just saying there's a problem.

01:40:03

No, it's okay. There's lots of problems with it There are some a lot of accuracies as well but there are some inconsistencies and there are certain assumptions that are made with dating things, but you know, they'll assume that the rate of That when they're when something's in a media like dirt dirt or granted or whatever

01:40:24

It might be different kind of media certain Minerals transfer into something while it's decaying at the same time

01:40:31

And so these things all had to be taken into account when you're making estimates dating there's

01:40:40

There's a there's a lot more complicated than that, but there's a lot of problems. Yeah, one is a with like you mentioned carbon -14 one of the issues that you have there is

01:40:51

That can only go back about 64 ,000 years. So when people try to argue that Oh, we have we carbon you use carbon -14 dating on a dinosaur and it's millions years old

01:41:05

Yeah, I do that The bigger but there's also there's we're finding fresh

01:41:10

DNA material bone marrow material in dinosaur bones, correct? I think you can't have that if the you know, well, yeah

01:41:17

And so what you end up with is you end up seeing that a lot There's a lot of assumptions that these dating methods take into account and they don't it's it's kind of interesting

01:41:28

They're skeptics about everything but their own worldview. So they don't question the

01:41:36

Basically their their own testing method. So they assume everything's universal and uniform.

01:41:43

So Nothing as if nothing ever changed Now that's a big problem because anytime you have a world catastrophe and everybody accepts that there was a worldwide catastrophe

01:41:54

Then you can't know what the earth was like we would say there was a worldwide flood.

01:41:59

They would say that there was You know several ice ages things like this, but you can't assume that Everything is the same today as it was before that worldwide catastrophe

01:42:14

Because no one would know it so there's called uniformitarianism versus catastrophism and You know,

01:42:23

I know in Anthony's book. I'm just trying to look it up real quick. He he stole well, he borrowed from Jason Lyle What he calls an

01:42:32

AP and was an APT test IP yeah

01:42:38

Consistency and preconditions of intelligibility. Yeah There are different there are different things to look for when you're hearing an argument

01:42:47

So anytime someone makes an assertion you want to see if the assertion is arbitrary is it just something that they're asserting and there's no rational justification for it and The the the assertion that they're making is there anything within the assertion that is inconsistent logically incoherent?

01:43:04

So even if you don't know much about the carbon dating like the science itself, which for myself, I'm more of a philosophical guy

01:43:10

I'm not really a science II kind of guy, but I it's a very important to point out that When people do things like carbon dating or anything for that matter in science there is involved a whole host of Presuppositions which are themselves not validated by science, right?

01:43:28

And so if you're if you feel a little uncomfortable going into the science then I think a good strategy is to focus on some of the philosophical presuppositions that are going into those assumptions and Attack those since they're holding it from within a non -christian perspective.

01:43:42

There's a lot. There's a lot of food free You know, there's a lot of areas that you could attack when it comes to science within an unbelieving worldview context

01:43:52

Mm -hmm That's good, brother We should I'm at look what

01:43:58

I found in this book In his book. Does that that chart look familiar? I remember that.

01:44:04

That's all that I Took that from karma. I have a chapter in Anthony's book on textual reliability.

01:44:11

And and what do you know? I stole something from car kind of like You know, you took something from you know,

01:44:18

Mormon Research Ministries And put that It was you had you had

01:44:24

I forgot what it was that you you got took a picture from bill Yeah, there's a picture of a temple that he took and it was no big deal.

01:44:31

He goes. Hey, did you take my picture? Yeah, what else you got you tried not to laugh Didn't you agree?

01:44:38

If my memory serves me didn't you agree to make it up to him by taking him out for lunch?

01:44:44

Yeah, and then I took my lunch. No, no No, I just owed him a lunch for something and then when I get there and I'm ready to pay

01:44:50

I don't have my wallet And it's just one of those stupid things that happen. I'm sure that never happened again.

01:44:57

Yeah, and two months later I said I owe you a lunch Let's do it. You don't even pay it make up for it, and I forgot my wallet again

01:45:04

And I just I remember seeing his face. I'm going I forgot my wallet again

01:45:10

And I and I look at his face and I could see this is gonna be forever This is gonna be something he's gonna forever.

01:45:16

He goes. Did you forget your wallet again? And I go? Yeah, he goes Okay from now on and I knew

01:45:22

I could see it Is Well, actually, you know the funny thing was for years when when

01:45:35

Matt would tell people to go check out mrm .org and you know Which just stands for Mormon research ministry.

01:45:41

He'd be like, oh when you talk to Bill tell him he owes me a lunch. Yeah It's it's a running joke now.

01:45:47

Tell Billy owes me a lunch, you know and So at any rate Yeah, it's all in fun

01:45:54

Yeah, but what we do notice is Matt never pays for lunch. That's that's the conclusion Yeah, yeah, well remember what happened to Manti last year you tried

01:46:04

You well what happened there was we're at McDonald's and you you weren't feeling all that great we were gonna wrestle for who pays but you didn't so I paid for my own and I walk over to the

01:46:14

Soda machine to get something and the lady goes. Hey Turn around she goes your card didn't work.

01:46:21

It failed and I'm like no because you're standing right there You whip your card out and pay for it. I'm like crap

01:46:27

So Even I thought I got it. It didn't work. That actually happened to me today

01:46:32

I was I was getting a cup of coffee with a friend and I used my Apple Pay and it didn't work and Last time

01:46:39

I bought him coffee last time we went out for coffee. So he was like, oh, I'll do it And he just paid

01:46:44

I was like it reminded me of how what happened with you at that McDonald's But that was good it was funny though It was funny because you know, it was just part and parcel of everything and we were laughing about it.

01:46:57

But yeah So Vincent popped in here. We haven't seen him in a long time.

01:47:02

So Welcome, sir How are y 'all good? We're right. We're gonna need your help.

01:47:09

I think I need to talk to you off -air It's going away in it. It is Google Hangouts goes away into this month

01:47:16

And so I was playing with OBS last night and some other things oh you and I need

01:47:24

Yep, you know Why because they don't want to support it anymore because it's

01:47:30

Google because they love to change things and Not tell you it's we're all moved over to discord.

01:47:38

That's why I mean we're rarely on here anyway, but and we Video doesn't it?

01:47:45

Yeah We actually recorded a council episode this last Saturday we liked a weekend and it's a little bit easier for most of us so We decided to do it on Saturday nights

01:47:57

And we did we did a even had Josh Smith there and his wife let him come in He was here last week

01:48:05

Josh was in last week, that's Calvinist Klein Because he kept looking over his shoulder make sure his wife wasn't there saying what are you doing?

01:48:11

I'm kidding. He was giving us wisdom in marriage.

01:48:18

Oh Oh, oh, oh, oh, I was gonna start with this Matt. I forgot about this now.

01:48:24

I gotta remember What was that? There was something you remember your book how to win win and Will and win women jerk might be yeah.

01:48:34

Okay, so I was reading an article This week and I couldn't help but to think of your book

01:48:41

So the article was this it was talking about the quite the article was titled. Why do

01:48:47

I'm trying to the full title by sound like why do high -performance women always date losers or something like that.

01:48:58

I Could have I'm reading the article and I'm like I really should have saved it for you and sent it to you because basically the the premise of the article was this

01:49:06

Matt and anyone who goes to Amazon you can get Matt's book how to woo and win women by being an obnoxious jerk and this actually is

01:49:14

What Matt wrote years ago, and they're now saying that the studies show that Matt was

01:49:23

Right, oh that was hard to say Matt was right But are the article said that when you get high

01:49:30

Performing women that like run businesses. They're used to getting things done

01:49:35

They're they're self -disciplined What ends up happening is they end up dating guys?

01:49:42

Who are complete losers? Because they want to fix them basically, which is what your argument was. They They see one that that needs some fixing and they just see it as a project to work on and There are but that's why they all date losers that no

01:50:02

That's part of it because they have what's called a mothering instinct gene and you have to activate it by doing something stupid

01:50:10

Then they want to fix it when it fixed you but it's a mothering kind of a thing We want to fix things a different way something is broken, but they want to fix men

01:50:18

And so you have the mothering instinct gene, but then you have to also Activate the bewilder filter and the bewilder filter is something that they don't they don't think logically

01:50:29

So when you say to them, hey, are you gonna wear that tonight? They mean what they understand is you think

01:50:34

I'm fat and ugly and so you're in trouble a bewilder filter kicks in well if you use it the proper way you take a

01:50:41

Bunch of your clothing with reds and whites and you head towards the washing machine while she's watching you

01:50:46

You can see the mothering instinct gene activate as your eyebrows rise up and her eyes bug out and she starts rescuing the cloth and then she's doing your laundry and Then you keep doing things like this for the next few days and then she starts thinking about you because you're so stinking

01:51:02

Irritating but because of the bewilder filter, she thinks she's thinking of you because she likes you It's science.

01:51:11

Yeah, it's science when he explained that to my daughter She actually was like that makes sense and I was like That she married

01:51:26

I Thought for sure when she thought Matt was We're at that dinner one time and I'm there with your daughter talking about two other people and I was giving her marriage advice and dating advice when you found out you were like no, but I was

01:51:41

Like I want to jump over the table and be like, yeah But I gave her a lot of good advice though what to look for in a guy stuff like that But I wrote the book actually in seminary anyway

01:51:52

No, she liked it. She thought it was good But I'm glad she didn't follow it with the guy she married because she married a really good guy

01:52:00

And I said you make sure he opens a door for you You make sure he's not checking you out all the time and that's what he's interested in You know,

01:52:06

I'm see if he guards you and watches out for your well -being I'm gonna see if he leads you in prayer.

01:52:13

Those are the kind of things I was talking to her about she goes Yeah, that's right. Oh, she he is. I'll tell you this one that I may get

01:52:19

My but fortunately neither one of them are probably listening to this podcast so, you know,

01:52:26

I had I have insurance that covers my daughter and It will continue until she's 25.

01:52:32

So I'm like, well look it's already paid for Like I figured just keep her covered under me instead of under her husband, right?

01:52:39

Because they said they would cover her and I said, okay And so I Was like well leave her under me and and to me it's just a practical thing, right you save money

01:52:51

And I was like this keeps coming up as an issue with with The two of them and uh, so finally my daughter sits me down and she's like dad

01:53:00

You don't understand You this is an issue of practicality. It saves money for us to have you pay the insurance.

01:53:07

I'm like, well, yeah What what other issues are there? She's like Well, it's he feels it's his job to take care of me and provide everything for me and I'm like, oh

01:53:19

Okay So even though like their phone bill is under me but they pay me

01:53:26

You know cuz he's gonna he takes care of everything for he opens doors for and yep So apart from good, even though they were both there when you gave that advice

01:53:34

They got married anyway, which is good. It was good advice to it really was Yeah, we should do a poll and see who thinks that's good advice, right so with that We're gonna come to a close of the show

01:53:50

Folks just to remind you you could go to Christian podcasts community org to get all of our podcasts that we have available apologetics live

01:53:59

The rap report that's wrapped with two peas the new one prescribed truth five solas our

01:54:06

Catholic friend who never actually stayed in here long enough would he should really listen to five solas and Find out what the five solos are really all about.

01:54:14

It was funny Matt Actually that our traditional Catholic friend there was in the chat much earlier was saying how you argue really well against atheists

01:54:23

But not so well against Catholics and and I commented no actually he argues both well against both

01:54:30

It's just you have confirmation bias not accepting the arguments. He makes against Catholics Um, maybe he'll come in next week, but but folks we're here every

01:54:41

Thursday night or most Thursday nights I should say 8 o 'clock to 10 o 'clock Eastern Time You could go to apologetics live comm ask any questions you have we are trying to set up a couple of debates now

01:54:51

We have oh Matt what were the debates? We have two we have a Catholic. I didn't tell you about this

01:54:57

We have a Catholic that wants to debate one of us. So I'm gonna let you Handle the Catholic. I'm gonna find that email

01:55:05

And I'll tell you what he said Willing to debate on the topic of oh wait, this is the one for me.

01:55:12

So this is the one that I'm gonna take Someone wants to debate the topic of Judaism versus Christianity And he says rabbinic

01:55:21

Judaism will side will argue Carnation is the truth There is no eternal hell we come back as animals and Isaiah 7 and 53 does not prove

01:55:34

Christianity. So that's the the topic that I will end up taking that debate and Talk But go ahead yeah

01:55:45

What is which I get I get a phone call in four minutes I gotta be at sorry

01:55:52

I didn't hear you I I was asking when is that debate? Oh, we're gonna set it up We don't

01:55:57

I don't know yet and the second debate we have to set up The second debate is going to be debating

01:56:02

Roman Catholicism So I got to set that one up with a William that one will be for Matt Okay So we'll set those two debates up here.

01:56:12

I do have a debate on the gospel truth on his channel Coming up.

01:56:19

I think it's September 29th and Matt and I both I mean Matt has loves this topic.

01:56:24

It was great I told Matt that the person actually asked this as a topic Eli He wants to debate that Secular humanism is superior to Christianity.

01:56:36

I Love the topic. I that's one where like Matt was saying that's where I'm where I just have to let the guy

01:56:42

Go and speak and anything. He says it's gonna undermine his whole world. Yeah Be a fun one.

01:56:48

Hey guys, I gotta get going here I'm gonna be a phone call in a little bit if you guys go to an after show Email it to me and I'll be done.

01:56:54

Maybe I can go on later, but I got to take off. Okay Vincent what's the American if there is one so later

01:57:00

I met so it's that Folks were just let y 'all know

01:57:08

There's Charlie So So folks if we do have we do set up debates if you want to get a formal debate on this channel just go to striving for turn actually just email

01:57:23

Info at striving for eternity dot o -r -g that's info at striving for eternity dot

01:57:30

O -r -g and we will be happy to set up a topic of debate

01:57:36

So we that's some of what we do. That's why we do this for two hours So we have enough time for formal debates if people want to do that Maybe we should get some with Eli if he wants to set some up here

01:57:47

We should get you and doing some debates here as well But I Do want to let you guys know that we thank those who gave the super chats during the show and a reminder that goes

01:57:57

That money goes toward calm org because that's why we put it on Carms YouTube channel because they can monetize and Google doesn't like us and doesn't let us so we do that for the monetizing there

01:58:09

But this is a ministry of striving for eternity. And so if you want to help striving fraternity, please go to striving for eternity o -r -g

01:58:19

Slash donate and you could donate there and So what you end up seeing there is you get a couple of gifts if you donate $2 a month gift will get you the book what do we believe and If you give five dollars a month and it usually takes us about three months to get these out

01:58:39

But you'll get the book What do they believe plus what do we believe if you give a $10 gift to get those two books plus the book that I mentioned?

01:58:46

Earlier by dr. Silvestro on the origin of kinds and a $20 donation gets those two plus The book that both

01:58:54

Matt and I contributed to sharing the good news with Mormons So if you want to get all four of those books, you just give a dollar 25 a $20 gift

01:59:04

Monthly, and we'll send those out to you. So striving for eternity dot o -r -g

01:59:09

Slash donate to help us out with that that helps us to keep this show going because we're gonna be moving off of the free

01:59:15

Google Hangouts and on to a different platform before the end of this month and Whatever platform we move to it looks like we're gonna have to pay some fees to get some some of the