Episode 129: Classic Cast Part 2 - All of Grace

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Welcome to the Ruled Church Podcast. This is my beloved son, with whom

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I am well pleased. He is honored, and I get the glory. And by the way, it's even better, because you see that building in Perryville, Arkansas?

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You see that one in Pechote, Mexico? Do you see that one in Tuxla, Guterres, down there in Chiapas? That building has my son's name on it.

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The church is not a democracy. It's a monarchy. Christ is king. You can't be

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Christian without a local church. You can't do anything better than to bend your knee and bow your heart, turn from your sin and repentance, believe on the

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Lord Jesus Christ, and join up with a good Bible -believing church, and spend your life serving

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Jesus in a local, visible congregation. Welcome to the Ruled Church Podcast. I am your host,

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Alan Nelson. I'm one of the pastors at Providence Baptist Church in Perryville, Arkansas.

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You can find more about us at ProvidenceBaptistAR .com.

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ProvidenceBaptistAR .com. What we're doing today is re -airing an episode from October 2022 that I had a conversation on the podcast called

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Classic Cast with my friends Cole Dixon and Danny Thursby.

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Danny's been on this podcast before, but you'll have to go. I'm not sure if by the time this comes out, it might have been a couple weeks ago when part one was released, but we're gonna continue our conversation now on All of Grace by Charles Spurgeon.

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And so we'll just jump in where we left off last time. I hope you find it edifying and helpful to your local church.

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To God be the glory. While we are on this earth, it is our desire to see people liberated from their bondage to sin.

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Yeah, that's not the task that the Lord has given his church for this time.

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We're not to judge the nations now. Today is the day of salvation.

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We've been given the ministry of reconciliation as Christ is reconciled. That's a good word, isn't it?

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Yeah. And in this case, it's good to go the step further. We don't, like you mentioned earlier, we don't just kind of throw it out there and be vague and ambiguous, but we get specific.

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Since his only and sole object is your good, when we're out on the street corner, we're preaching specifically your good.

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Since his sole and only object is your good, incline your ear and come to him.

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We're not only specific about preaching the law, what will happen to you if you don't repent from your law -breaking, but what will happen to you if you respond to the gospel that is presented to you of the

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Christ who was sent for you, the world. He goes that step further, mentioning it may be the hour and come in which you shall enter upon that new life, which is the beginning of heaven.

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And then chapter three, he starts to get into what Danny mentioned accurately earlier, the theme of the first six chapters of the book, which we have the first five chapters, which he talks about justification and the justification of the ungodly.

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Then maybe we can save some time specifically for chapter six, which is a little bit different subject than what we're talking about now, but it's really kind of the implication of what we're talking about now, deliverance from sin.

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What does he mean and how does he describe the God who justifies the ungodly?

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How is it that God justifies and what does this ungodliness look like?

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What I love about this is that, I learned this from Spurgeon.

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Well, one, it's biblical, so really I learned it from the Bible, but Spurgeon is executing kind of this tactic, if you will, put very well in here.

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Recently, I was in a counseling situation and this is fairly common and this person's not a believer and they're just recalling the guilt of so many things in their life and some of it was, by any standard, pretty wicked sin and they're regretful about it.

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You see a sense of at least some worldly sorrow and they're just like, I think

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I've just sinned too much. I think I've just sinned too much and then for the

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Christian, the best thing, I just love that opportunity. It's like somebody clearing out the field for you to throw a touchdown pass is because, oh, well that, you know, the good news about that is that that's the pre -qualification.

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That's the pre -qualification. The good news is that that's exactly who

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Christ died for is those who have sinned so much. That's the pre -qualification here and so in the, just in this book,

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I like his form in writing here in writing here because at the end of, it's like at the end of the paragraphs, you could just read the last sentence of the paragraphs and it's like he makes a case and Spurgeon can't do anything without preaching.

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So even he's sitting here writing, but it sounds like a sermon. This, to my knowledge, did not come from a sermon.

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He actually wrote this, which is unique because so many things, I think MacArthur learned from him and all of MacArthur's books are just sermons that have been repackaged, but Spurgeon actually wrote this one.

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If you just read the last lines of the paragraphs, in this chapter at least, you get, you know, you get what he's after.

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To justify the ungodly, this is a miracle worthy of God and it is.

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If you dear friend feel that you are spiritually sick, the physician has come into the world for you.

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Forgiveness must be for the sinful. It is observed to talk of forgiving those who do not need forgiveness, pardoning those who have never offended.

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He goes on to say, this is true.

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The law is for the self -righteous to humble their pride. The gospel is for the lost to remove their despair.

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The sinner is the gospel's reason for existence. Oh says he.

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Well, wait a second. That is all he is when the gospel comes to just comes to justify him.

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He's talking about the ungodly. Um, well, I'm not going to read that.

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He can abundantly pardon Jesus. Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners. Forgiveness is for the guilty.

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God justifies the ungodly and that takes you up where you are now. It meets you in your worst estate.

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I mean, just nailing it home at the end of each paragraph. You can't miss his point. No, you can't.

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I don't know. And when he talks about ungodly, I just want to throw in there. He addresses the religious hypocrite too.

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Yeah. You know, in fact, it's as let me see here. I find it real quickly. He says, he says possibly you are a person of another sort.

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You have regularly attended to all the outward forms of religion and yet you have had no heart in them at all but have been really ungodly.

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Though meeting with the people of God, you've never met with God for yourself. You have been in the choir and yet have not praised the

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Lord with your heart. You have lived without any love to God in your heart or regard to his commands in your life.

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Well, you are just the kind of man to whom this gospel is sent. This gospel which says that God justifies the ungodly.

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It is very wonderful, but it is happily available for you.

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So, Amen. Yeah, he goes on that point. He says now observe further that it must be so that the salvation of God is for those who do not deserve it and have no preparation for it.

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It is reasonable that the statement should be put in the Bible for dear friend. No others need justifying but those who have no justification of their own.

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If any of my readers are perfectly righteous, they want no justifying you feel that you are doing your duty.

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Well and almost putting heaven under an obligation to you. What do you want with a Savior or with mercy?

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What do you want with justification? You will be tired of my book by this time for it will have no interest to you.

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Oh, he's just so he I mean, he's just got away with words, man. He's he's good and listen, listen to this and I put as a corrective and encouragement to us in the reform camp, but for you guys comment reading a different version, but this is the the last paragraph basically right before chapter four, but he says in my book.

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It's a long paragraph. It says come in your present state. I mean come to your

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Heavenly Father in all your sin and sinfulness come to Jesus just as you are leprous filthy naked neither fit to live nor fit to die come you that are the heavy sweepings of creation come though.

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You hardly dare to hope for anything but death come though despair is brooding over you pressing upon your bosom like a horrible nightmare come and ask the

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Lord to justify another ungodly one. Why should he not come along with you for this great mercy of God is meant for such as you are

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I put it in the language of the text and I cannot put it more strongly the Lord God himself takes to himself this gracious title him that justifies the ungodly.

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Yeah, he makes just and causes to be treated as just those who by nature are ungodly is not that a wonderful word for you reader do not rise from your seat till you have well considered this matter.

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So we see preach and that's preaching that is preaching in such short amount of time.

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He's doing a really good job of calling all to believe in a way, you know, even telling the self -righteous to turn away from their own righteousness and calling done godly to turn away from their ungodliness all for the purpose of getting them to turn to the

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God who justifies, you know, he tells as y 'all mentioned on one hand.

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He tells the self -righteous this the next paragraph after what you read

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Danny said if I called you you would not come and therefore I will not call you under that character.

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No, I bid you rather look at that righteousness of yours till you see what a delusion it is.

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It is not half so substantial as a cobweb have done with it flee from it and then on the other hand, he's telling the ungodly don't wait for personal

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Reformation. He says even so the gospel will receive you into its halls if you come as a sinner not otherwise wait not for Reformation but come at once for salvation

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God justifies the ungodly and that takes you up where you now are it meets you in your worst estate.

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So one hand he tells the self -righteous to turn away from their righteousness and he tells on the other hand the ungodly to not wait for personal

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Reformation. Because in truth the self -righteous and the ungodly are in the same state in their sin and need of salvation and they both have the same solution.

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Yeah, turning away from their own state whether it be just pure ungodliness or as what

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Henry Schugel calls carnal religion Mm -hmm and to look to the

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God who justifies now on the other side. I want to say this because we've we've kind of pushed around our camp a little bit, but I want to say this he never he never leaves his

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Calvinism. You can't you know, you can't be a faithful evangelist and leave your

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Calvinism. So he says this this is in chapter 4, but he says he says he in the splendor of his electing grace having chosen some of them before the foundation of the world will not rest till he has justified them and made them to be accepted in the beloved now some people on even on both sides.

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Some people are like this blows their minds. How can you say that God has chosen some people to give his efficacious

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Grace? Yeah, and yet you're going to be so you're in And yet you tell him people come come come we don't these truths are not intention, right?

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They're together, right? And so and so Spurgeon, you know, this is why this is why those not in the reform camp don't like to press

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Spurgeon too much because they know he goes talks about you know, God doesn't justify everybody

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God before the foundation of the world has elected his people and so Spurgeon never leaves that but he does and one of the you know, besides the

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Apostle Paul or something, you know, Spurgeon is like one of the one of the clearest examples in history of how one should hold the doctrines of grace rightly and evangelism rightly all to all together, you know, he doesn't leave one premier example of church history.

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Yeah doesn't leave one for the other. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's his basis for sure. Yeah. So what

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I just want to make clear, you know, so you're not reading this book like Oh Spurgeon in this book. He's hiding his Calvinism.

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He's hiding his he's like he's trying to do a bait -and -switch here, you know, which which which let's be real so many pastors do they try to shift gears.

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Let's be real. Yeah. There's a lot of closet Calvinist pastors in this area and I'm not saying that.

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Oh, there's pastors that are trying to be wise. I'm not talking about those men.

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I'm not talking about those brothers who aren't showing up to the churches kicking the front doors in with the doctrines of grace.

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They're trying to feed their people instead of just throwing it all out there, you know, trying to start with the milk, you know, exactly.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm not talking about those those brothers. I'm talking about I'm talking about pastors who actually do intentionally hide or you know, they'll never come out with you know with what they believe and because they don't want to they're trying to make everyone happy exactly and it's not just with Calvinism.

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Those guys are mostly the ones like if you ask him, you know, well, you know, well, what about a woman?

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Can she preach instead of answering that question? They'll answer it in a different way. Like oh a woman can do all these things, you know, like they're not right.

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No, I right, right, right, right. They're just yeah, it's like and by the way, no, but the but the the idea is you just going to try to split down the middle and you don't want to ruffle feathers.

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Yeah, you don't want to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so you'll or you'll be inconsistent and you'll you'll well,

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I've got a friend. I don't know if he's still like this, but I'm not going to I'm not going to mention his name, but several years ago, he said well, when it comes to preaching,

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I study John MacArthur, but when it comes to evangelism and church growth,

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I study in Andy Stanley. I'm just like, I'm just like, dude,

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I was like, dude, one of these things is not like the other and so that that's what it tells me is your pragmatist.

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Yeah, even in your preaching. Even. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that that's exact.

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That's exactly right. Or what I was trying to critique about the what I call the closet Calvinist is like they're going to keep they're going to keep that under under a you know, under a covering.

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They're going to keep that under covering knowing that well, if I actually if I actually come out with that,

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I'm going to I'm going to offend people. Yeah, and offend people but I you dig even deeper and it's for paycheck for things like I believe these things.

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I just don't want to lose my job over this or or they yeah, or they know that. It's like well,

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I want non -Calvinist and Calvinist alike to come to this church. And so therefore I'm going to keep it under covering.

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It's like which is not true either because we have non -Calvinist that go to our church and you know,

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I'm not saying we're the standard. I'm just saying look you don't have to. The best you can preach like this and be a

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Calvinist. You don't have to hide it. The best thing that I've learned, you know is yeah, that's the best thing I've learned. I'm not

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I've tried I have been in the camp of trying to be wise but I'm not trying to hurt right, you know,

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Calvinism whatever and the best thing I learned is you just got to be you just got to be who you are.

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Yeah, because there's exactly right and by the way, what I'm saying is that ought to be biblical, right?

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I'm not just saying like anybody just be who you are. What I'm saying is you ought to be biblical and then you ought to just be who you like spur again was, you know, this is connected to the book because that's what we're talking about.

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Like Spurge is just he's just real. He's like, yeah, God chose some. Yeah. Also, please come to Christ, you know.

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And he just he just holds it all out there together and and we've got we've got to be transparent, you know, and and if you if I'm if you think

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I'm saying well just be transparent about your Calvinism and you're not going to have any problems. No, there'll be problems, you know, we had a not long ago in our church.

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We had a women's Bible study and there was a someone's like, you know, I'm just really love, you know,

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I'm just really loving and understanding Calvinism more stuff and we had some people as like, you know, what what, you know, like and and then trying to explain it and stuff and some questions and you're like, well, and then, you know, then

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I have to get involved and and explain things and but there's there's some tensions, you know, like as people are coming into this understand this, you're like, look,

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I can't resolve all the tensions in your brain, right? But I can't but I just can tell you that both are true and that is

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God has chosen a people for himself. Out of the mass of fallen humanity before time began before the foundation of the world only those are going to be saved and yet we publish this good news to the nations and we plead with all to come to Christ and anybody who doesn't come to Christ.

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Well, it's only because they've rejected God, you know,

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God. Yes. God could show them his grace. Okay, but when you start talking even in the title of this book when you start talking about what

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God everybody deserves grace, you're like wait, what that's not that's not what grace is that's not grace.

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So God in his abundant grace has chosen some and yet this fuels our evangelism rather than pour cold water on it.

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I like that you I know go ahead. They said it fuels it because election is such a the doctrine of election is such a grace even to the evangelist because you don't absolutely don't sit there and go out and evangelize somebody in a walk away and go man.

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I didn't I didn't word this exactly right now, man. Maybe I wasn't good enough to because it's not it's not you it's not the because honestly you we don't preach the gospel perfectly when we go evangelizing so you can take that burden off of yourself and and trust that God will work through an imperfect evangelist.

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Yeah on that on that note, I know we need to make progress, but I think that's something that that is distinct about our day it, you know,

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I could be wrong, but if these some distinct about our day then in Spurgeon's day like Spurgeon can write this and it's people are going to buy it and people are going to read it the problem with like Spurgeon opening up and saying oh, you're ungodly good.

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Good that that's a pre qualifications. That's exactly that's exactly who the Lord saves.

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That's exactly who the Lord justifies because you you're the ungodly is who is in need of justification that message is received so differently today that it's it's and I'm sure you know, this is nothing new people, you know, people are are prideful and people are self -righteous, but I think in our day, it's more prominent that you can't even get the words out of your mouth saying you're ungodly you you can't you don't even have time to say good.

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That's exactly who Christ died for because it's so defensive on the fact that it's like people aren't willing to recognize that they're sinners anymore, but even more than that listen to this so there's no tenderness.

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There's no tenderness of. Oh, you're ungodly, but you're there's but there's even a worldly maybe there's just a worldly sorrow of it and you know in distinction between a godly sorrow and first Corinthians 7 in our day.

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There's not even a worldly sorrow over sin. Yeah, just a pain. You can't even say that it's so hard to communicate that your ungodliness in a way is good news because this is you know, you are who

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Christ has has died for and to paint add more color to that picture not to add anything else other than you have

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Christians trying to present the gospel in such a way as to show the sinner that they're not ungodly like all of a sudden the gospel is you know, you're worthy this and that and the other you're not that you're just broken.

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You're sick. Yeah, kind of like like kind of like the girlfriend who just got broken up with all her friends was just like no, you're so beautiful.

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You don't do you know, he doesn't deserve you blah blah blah found that illustration offensive, but listen to this though.

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This was think when you hear that thing about this word thing about words thing about Spurgeons day think about worldviews thing about all this and anything about our day.

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What does the word ungodly imply to our world today?

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Well, if you tell someone there, they're ungodly. You are starting the conversation by saying there is a

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God right? Right. That's you know, and so when Spurgeon writes on got the word ungodly, you know, they're my well, of course, your secret atheist, you know, you know, but but at least standard

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Society, you know, you you accept that. Okay. Yeah, there's got today.

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It today. It's like you almost have to work even you know, you say you're ungodly. It's it's not only are people pushing back against I'm not ungodly.

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I'm fine. No, they're pushing back like there's not even a God. There's not even a God and I'm God, you know, they're openly whereas people have always believed that from Genesis 3 onwards like you can be like God, right?

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So people thought that they were God nothing new. Yeah, it's nothing new but the difference is in our

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Society. It's okay. Now to be open about it. Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not.

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I'm in fact, you could imagine people saying this even I'm godly right because I'm God right, you know, and and so it's a different day step further step number two.

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There is a God that you're living against. Yeah, you're ungodly because if they do believe in a

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God he is by default on their side, right? You're right. Yeah as they view it you're ungodly meaning there is a

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God who you're living in rebellion to yeah, how many times have you heard?

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Well only God can judge and that's saying that God's not judging me.

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That's right. There's no right. Right. I am a meeting God standard God standards good enough for me, you know, you may judge me but in a sense if they say only

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God can judge me. Well, they're not scared of God's judgment, right? They don't have a fear judgment and God may not like my sin but he loves me because he loves the sinner and he hates this and you're starting to step on toes and there's a guy

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I'm gonna have to stop you there. There's a guy in our church stepping on toes. There's a guy in our church.

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He teaches the youth and he he's been known to tell young people that God hates him.

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I'm not going to say any names. I want some good thing the camera can see. Hey guys,

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I do so can't be visually identified. I like to let's protect his identification.

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He's like on here with a black face. Yeah, deep. We yeah, we have to blur his face and distort his voice.

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Yeah, what I like about these books. I like when the authors get into their own personal life because it brings out history.

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I'm starting to like history more and more. Don't let me do really but on that note,

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I just want to point out the Spurgeon is ministering in the seabeds of the world view that has led us to where we are today.

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Yeah, that's good point. So so, you know Darwin, you know marks

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Darwin marks right about this time. Also Freud there. They're killing the garden.

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It will become what you know, you know, the the what's in the water today.

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What's in the cultural thought and water today Spurgeons on the front end. We're on the back end.

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We're seeing the fruits of that garden. So I'm page 17.

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He says this I so after talking about ungodliness. Another we see this in our practice where we let the center that we're preaching to know look we were also to considered ungodly.

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There's nothing that we did to save ourselves kind of thing. He starts to do that on page 17 at the very bottom when he says

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I was myself stricken down with a horrible sense of guilt which made my life and misery to me.

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But when I heard the command turn to me and be saved all the ends of the earth for I am

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God and there is no other as at 4522. I looked and in a moment the

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Lord justified me now Tom Nettles records this moment in considerable depth in his biography on Spurgeon called living by revealed truth.

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He says this about Spurgeons conversion. It happened on January 6th 1850.

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School had dismissed early because of an outbreak of fever Spurgeons spiritual struggles were not left at Newmarket but clung to him as he made his journey home to Colchester unable to go with his father to his church in Tullysbury because of the snow

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Spurgeon made his way to a primitive Methodist Chapel on artillery

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Street. According to his recollection the minister that day did not appear and so an unlearned

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Methodist ex exhorter rose to give a brief message on Isaiah 4522 which says look into me and be saved all the ends of the earth from God is and there is no one else.

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The man recognized that a heavy -hearted visitor was among their small number and he expostulated with Spurgeon directly to look to Christ.

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He asked Spurgeon to obey this text. Christ has bled and died risen from the dead and ascended to heaven.

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He alone can save it is not a matter of lifting a finger or a foot or going to college or being rich.

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Look look look the man said look to Christ and live

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Spurgeon looked and saw it once the way of salvation one page later.

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Nettles records Spurgeon giving remarks on on this moment.

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Look look look why I Spurgeon thought I had a great deal to do but I found it was only to look

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I thought I had a garment to spin out for myself, but I found that if I looked

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Christ would give me a garment. That's exactly what we're talking about in these chapters.

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It's not do do do or work work work, but it is simply look to Christ for salvation because it is

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God who justifies the ungodly and in that in that record of Spurgeon's biography.

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He does away with all self -righteousness can't clothe yourself with a garment and he does also away with the issue of ungodliness getting in the way of our salvation because he admitted.

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Hey, I was ungodly too and I found this salvation in God himself.

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Yeah who commanded me look to Christ. Amen. He says it's look really what it's looking on.

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It's not doing it's looking on what Christ has done, right though you are steeped up to your throat and crime.

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He says he can give with a word remove the defilement and say

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I will now be clean. The Lord is a great forgiver. He mentions in several cases.

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I mean with the time that we have left he's talking about this justification. He's talking about the gospel and he's not being superficial with it like on page 21.

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He gives a good illustration of the gospel. He gives a good definition of a gospel.

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He gives the biblical theology of the gospel. He gives a doctrine of the atonement. He talks about how

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God's system is the perfect system even limited atonement real quick. The son of God Co equal and co -eternal with the father had of old been made the covenant head of a chosen people that he might in that capacity suffer for them and save them.

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In other words, I push back again, you know, like we're trying to we're trying to rescue from both ditches as it were, you know, for those who are the

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Armenian who thinks well, you know, you can't really be evangelistic in unless unless you're in Armenia is like no, no, no, listen to this brother.

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He's right. He has to he has the theology of the scriptures, right? And he's holds a high view of election and the doctrines of grace and yet from the other side.

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He's evangelistic. These two things go together. I mean, I would again, I push them together.

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You're not really evangelistic unless you're Calvinist and you're not really a Calvinist unless you're evangelistic.

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They go together, dude. He let me read this paragraph because it it gives the biblical in a short sense biblical theology of the gospel starts with Adam page 21 the fall by Adam left a loophole of escape another

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Adam can undo the ruin made by the first when I was anxious about the possibility of a just God pardoning me.

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I understood and saw by faith. He who is the son of God became man and in his own blessed person bore my sin in his body on the tree.

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I saw the chastisement of my peace was laid on him and that with his stripes.

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I was healed dear friend. Have you ever seen that have you ever understood how

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God can be just to the full not remitting penalty nor blunting the edge of the sword and yet can be infinitely merciful and can justify the ungodly who turn to him.

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It was because the son of God supremely glorious and his matchless person undertook to vindicate the law by bearing the sentence due to me that therefore

34:49

God is able to pass by my sin the law of God was more vindicated by the death of death of Christ than it would have been had all transgressors been sent to hell for the son of God to suffer for sin was a more glorious establishment of the government of God than for the whole race to suffer.

35:10

So that answers the question of the chapter how God can be just and the justifier of ungodly.

35:18

Come on man. Does that not pump you up and we see this intertwining you were not going to get away from it the center twining of doctrine and call of true doctrine of the gospel and the call to believe the gospel.

35:33

Yeah it for Spurgeon the doctrine of the gospel inevitably led to the call for sinners to believe the gospel.

35:41

Amen. That's right. It's like a time and time again, you know, just repeating repeating repeating but it was it wasn't that he was evangelistic in spite of his

35:50

Calvinism. It was that his understanding of the doctrines of grace. Yeah fueled is the word we used earlier fueled his evangelism and then he talks about once you know, not to push us along too far, but I love chapter 6.

36:06

I was about to yeah and and and yeah regeneration. Yeah. So let me say we gotta let me say this is going to be a lot past to you.

36:13

So I'm going to be the imaginary person asking you these questions again going back to our intro.

36:19

So Quattro you wrote this book on regeneration Danny and us. We're all talking about this grace.

36:26

That means then I can believe this and then I'm I'm sad. I can do what I want. Correct.

36:31

I can continue to live in my sin. Let me let me tell you a story about a sow and a cat.

36:37

Jesse illustration. He says he brought it but it's it's a he says a cat.

36:45

I'm going to see if I can summarize it. But basically a cat cleans itself, you know, you see a cat stays clean and all those things you say.

36:52

Well, you can clean a sow you can a pig for those not from Arkansas.

36:58

You can you can clean those city folk city folk. You can clean up a pig and you can get it real clean.

37:07

But as soon as you let that thing go, what's it going to do?

37:12

It's going to go back to the mud. Go go Waller. Yeah, and so that's that's what you're saying.

37:18

Like the other person why just believe I'll just believe that I just believe these and I'll go live in the mud. Yeah. No, your problem is you're by nature.

37:26

Still a pig. Yeah, and in Spurgeon essentially says the only way you can get a pig to act like a cat is if you change it into a cat.

37:34

Yeah, you know, and that's that's his point. If he says basically good luck training the sow how to clean it.

37:40

So it'd be funny. I'd make a good YouTube show, you know, they do that because they don't sweat found out about a month ago pigs don't sweat and I was just throwing off.

37:51

You know what? They don't sweat. I've never seen pigs wet. What an interesting Avenue.

37:57

We have now ventured but but yeah, but that's the point. Yeah, when God changes us. If you say man, oh this free grace,

38:07

I embrace it. So now I'm going to go back and live in the mire of the world. Yeah, you hadn't

38:13

God forbid. Yeah, you haven't understood it because people can read this in our area in our churches.

38:21

They can read chapters 1 through 5. I agree. I agree. I know I know God does justify the ungodly.

38:28

I am ungodly. God did just sinners. Yeah. And then they don't get to chapter 6 the deliverance from sin because they're still living in their sin.

38:36

So they'll hold on to the free grace of God for the ungodly, but they don't want anything to do with deliverance from sin.

38:43

Justification without sanctification would not be salvation. Man, there it is.

38:49

Simply put CH Spurgeon and he says on page 25, that's a famous quote too.

38:57

We can never be happy restful or spiritually healthy till we become holy.

39:06

Yeah. So the world is searching for happiness and it's never going to find it.

39:12

You know, people will deceive you based off of their Facebook and Instagram and make it seem like they're happy.

39:18

But the truth is their mind is eat up with the next photogenic moment. They're constantly living for the likes and retweets, which you can take some, whatever, but they claim and they try to look as if, but then that would throw off his identity and then you're going to get him killed because he's talking about how

39:41

God hates sinners. Um, yeah, the world.

39:49

I forget. Yeah. Yeah, I forgot his bag brother. I forgot.

39:55

I forgot that we were talking about gunner praise. God made. Well, he's got, he's got tattoo on his chest.

40:04

Praise God. The world wants happiness.

40:10

The world wants rest. The world wants health. You hear all the time, you know, now it's emotional health.

40:17

That's the big fad was mental health. Now it's emotional health and often claims that it doesn't want religion.

40:26

It doesn't want Christianity because it wants happiness. Spurgeon says you can't have those things unless you have holiness.

40:34

Amen. And but he's also condemning the self -righteous. Yeah, still he's not forgetting them. You can't have holiness unless you have justification.

40:43

Yeah, there's and but somebody like I just could never be happy. I just could never be happy and giving my

40:51

Sundays to the Lord could never be happy. Just reading the scriptures with my family or doing a

40:56

Vangel like I could never be happy that that goes back to what regeneration is.

41:01

Yeah, it changes us, you know, and and I'm not to get too far ahead, but I love

41:07

I love I love this. This is one of the greatest statement ahead does like I want

41:12

I want to maybe I want to put this in like the 1689 or something like because it's such a good statement, you know, that's like he says and this right before chapter 70 says he quotes like the sinner saying this

41:25

I cannot make this change says one who said you could the scripture which we have quoted speaks not of what man will do but of what

41:34

God will do. It is God's promise and it is for him to fulfill his own engagements trust in him to fulfill his word to you and it will be done.

41:43

But how is it to be done? This is it and he says what business is that of yours must the

41:50

Lord explain his methods before you will believe him come on the Lord's working in this matter is a great mystery.

41:56

The Holy Ghost performs it he who made the promise has the responsibility of keeping the promise and he is equal to the occasion.

42:04

God who promises this marvelous change will assuredly carry it out in all who receive

42:11

Jesus for to all such he gives power to become the sons of God.

42:16

Oh that you would believe it and the reason I joke, you know, it's because I think the 1689 does so good.

42:24

Yeah in some of its chapters, you know about these things. It's like this is such a great addition a great add -on here to like look, you know

42:33

Spartans like believe and they're like, well, I can't believe you know, it's like and you're just telling me God sovereign all that and like I can't explain all this and Spartans like it's not up to you explain it, right?

42:43

It's your responsibility before God to believe it. And trust

42:48

Christ. Yes, and in a mysterious way, I can't explain it other than just to say what the scripture say but a mysterious way, you know those who trust

42:56

Christ. It's because God worked in you first to bring you, you know into it to a way actually think probably for a lot of people.

43:06

I think that you know, they have this point that they say they're converted, you know, that's right.

43:11

I think probably for a lot of people like for example for Bunyan, I think probably that there are people they're actually converted before they actually realize, you know,

43:22

I'm saying like for sure because Bunyan is like wrestling wrestling wrestling and I think back to Biggie's book.

43:28

There's there's a difference between having faith and knowing you have faith, you know, you know,

43:35

I'm saying like what I mean is like there's a difference between believing faith or maybe I should put this way faith and assurance of faith are two different things.

43:43

Yeah, and so in this mysterious way God works in his elect to bring them to that to that that he regenerates him and bring them to faith and and in Spurgeon's telling us readers.

43:58

It's not your responsibility to figure this out how all this works. It's your responsibility to trust

44:04

Christ. Yeah, and I know yeah, we'll be like trust them. Why do you say if you believe this? Why are you telling people this in God just going to do it and this gets back to the whole reason

44:12

Spurgeon writes. It's everything like God is going to do it. Yes, that's true. He's going to do it through means.

44:19

Yeah, and the means by which God is going to just justify the ungodly is is

44:25

Christ and then the heralding of Christ. From the church.

44:31

Yes. Yeah, I think of First Peter chapter 2. First Peter 1 and 2 have been on my mind for a few years now really great chapters great book of the

44:43

Bible. Where Peter is almost he's almost got it switched purely to Old Testament citation mode.

44:54

It's like just citation after citation after citation. He should have unhitched. Yeah, that Peter it would add a lot bigger

45:06

Church. Yeah. No, man, you spitting now. I didn't woke up finally, which

45:12

I got that drinking the coffee. Yeah, yeah parenthetical. We realize now what happened from the same person who claimed you got to hit on his from the

45:21

Old Testament. We realize where that ends. You end up just on hitching the whole Bible right as he is done.

45:27

But that's a conversation elsewhere or not. Well, yeah, we're probably about to talk about it right now.

45:34

You already mentioned his name, but what are y 'all laughing at?

45:41

Just this is funny. Yeah, I'm just laughing at this. I'm just laughing at him.

45:48

I misunderstood his comment. I thought his comment was like, you know, like conversation elsewhere and he's like, we're not as like, yeah, let's not have it.

45:56

Let's not have that conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And you were taking it as okay. Not okay.

46:02

You mean not later now. I thought he was taking like, no, no, it's not at all.

46:08

No, what else man was? I said, we can have that later. And then I was thinking, no, we're about to mention it again.

46:15

Talk about it. So might as well have the conversation now. It's like all those times in lecture. I can say we're not to get political.

46:21

Then Danny goes on the 10 -minute political. Not to go political again, but Kamala.

46:31

Anyways, no. First Peter chapter 2.

46:40

He has this beautiful way of Old Testament citation where he combines justification and sanctification.

46:49

And sometimes it's not even in that order. Sanctification because of justification and then switch swap.

46:55

You're sanctified because you're justified. You're justified and now be sanctified kind of thing. I love it.

47:00

But he talks about how we are this spiritual Israel. We are the

47:06

Royal Nation. Come on. We are the holy priesthood. Perform Baptist right here. We are the people that are offering spiritual sacrifices to God.

47:15

And then he says why? Because you were called out of darkness into his marvelous light to proclaim the excellencies of him.

47:26

So two things there. The side note from that is people say, well,

47:31

I just don't want to share my faith. I just don't want to preach the gospel. That's there's specific people who do that.

47:37

I'm not called to do that. Actually, if you're part of the nation, you're part of the proclaimers.

47:43

You cannot help but proclaim the excellencies of God. Because he has saved you. Now again, there's a distinction between pastors and the layman, of course, but we can't help but proclaim

47:55

God. But as it pertains to chapter 6, you cannot help but live a holy life.

48:03

Because God has called you into his kingdom. Yeah, you're not a Sal anymore. You're not a

48:08

Sal anymore. Because you are no longer a spiritual Gentile, but you are spiritual

48:14

Israel. Because he has justified you, because he has snatched you out of darkness and placed you into his marvelous light, you are holy.

48:25

Holy nation, royal priesthood, a part of the priesthood that offers sacrifices to God.

48:32

There's no way that you're not, because he has changed your identity. Yeah, and by changing your identity, he's changed your actions, which, of course, change your heart, change your nature, right?

48:47

Your desires. Yeah, that's a different conversation too. Your will, your nature, your desires.

48:53

He says this, remember that the Lord Jesus came to take away sin in three ways.

48:59

He came to remove the penalty of sin, the power of sin, and the presence of sin.

49:07

Good Baptist alliteration. Yeah. You stole it from me, as usual. Oh, you were going to do it? Yeah. I don't consider stealing as a

49:14

Baptist plagiarism. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good Baptist plagiarism. Man, we're going in. He says that you know that he appeared in order to take away sins, 1

49:23

John 3, 5. The angel said of our Lord, you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins,

49:29

Matthew 1, 21. And then throughout the chapter, he also relies on Ezekiel 36, 26.

49:38

A new spirit I will put within you and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

49:49

Here's the point that I would want to make. I would want to make here is that as much as he preached what what we might come what we might call come as you are.

50:03

I think even says that in a previous chapter, you know, come as you are. In chapter six, talking about removal of sin, he's he says it.

50:17

Look, Christ calls you and offers you the grace, calls you to believe upon his grace, just just as you are.

50:26

You can't clean yourself up. You can't justify yourself. In fact, that's a prerequisite, but Christ does not leave you where you are.

50:34

Amen. And I think that that's another big distinction as well. When we're talking about modern day evangelism or modern day

50:42

Christianity. That can be a helpful corrective is that. In our gospel proclamation, we are calling sinners, not not saints to believe upon the gospel and evangelism.

50:57

We call saints to believe what saints are called to believe upon the gospel. It's still our life.

51:03

It's still our life. Our you know, it's still our it's still our bread of life.

51:10

We believe upon the gospel every day. There's an aspect though of people wanting to preach come as you are, come as you are, come as you are, come as you are.

51:24

But this regeneration, they don't preach regeneration. It's, you know, God accepts you as you are.

51:30

It's like, yes, but he does not. Keep you where you are. He, he changes you cry, you know,

51:38

Christ will change you go and sin. No more. Exactly. And let me, let me say this. This is the, if, if I may, otherwise it's cheap grace.

51:47

Yeah. Otherwise cheap grace. What do you actually have? Freedom. Yeah. Free free is not cheap.

51:54

That's good. I want to. Yeah, that, that this is why the, the biblical understanding of God's people is the reformed, the reformed

52:10

Baptist is the, is the right view. I, our, our, our Presbyterian friends and our dispensational friends.

52:19

Now they don't like it when I say it this way, but they both have the same error. It's rooted in the same air.

52:27

And that error is that the physical people of God are the people of God, right?

52:35

And the dispensation says, you know, like one Israel, you know, physical people and the

52:40

Presbyterian say, you know, the children, you know, but it's the reformed Baptist view that understands only those who have experienced what

52:51

Danny just got through talking about are in the new covenant. That's what it means. That's the promise of Jeremiah.

52:57

That, that, that, that, that they'll know God and, and, and, and that you'll remember their sins no more.

53:03

That's what it looks like. It's only those who are in the new covenant. You would open this can just at the end or just at the end, but yeah, but, but, but I'm just saying,

53:14

Hey, look, I love, I love both camps. I just mentioned, I love them. There are, there are, and there are closest brothers, brothers.

53:22

Hey, look, I'm ready. We're going to spend time in prison with them, you know, whatever, you know, but, but, uh, cause

53:28

I'm not post -meal, but, uh, but, uh, there's another, just hit them all.

53:34

Boom, boom. All the way out. I want to drop some grenades, but, but the reality is, and I love them, but the reality is this, this is why we're right.

53:44

Because this is what the new covenant promises. Uh, in closing, which we can close whenever y 'all want.

53:51

I know you got to leave soon. I got to leave. Y 'all can, y 'all can keep hanging out me. Hey, y 'all started without me. You can finish without me.

53:57

We got a bounce, but, um, I, I do want to give a plug here. Oh yeah. Y 'all got it. Y 'all got an event.

54:02

Let me say this real quick before that, but the, the quote pertaining to this and the words of Bunyan, uh,

54:08

I'm paraphrasing here. He says, I realized that the kingdom of heaven had room for one.

54:16

The kingdom of heaven had room for me, but didn't have room for me and my sin.

54:23

Hmm. Bunyan for the win again. Kingdom of God has no room for our sin brothers. Yeah.

54:28

Amen. Anyways, here's the plug. Turn it over. Yeah. I was just going to say my, as much as we, as we've picked on him, the mysterious man in the room that no one can see or hear, but Gunnar has this ministry.

54:41

These, this new thing he started called preaching and preachers. And what he wants to do is give men the opportunity to preach.

54:49

Yeah. And we have a lot, we have a big, um, situation in many churches where young men maybe feel called to preach, but don't have a lot of opportunity to reach.

54:59

And so Gunnar, I said, and he came to me about, he talked to me about, I said, you just got to run with this.

55:04

Cause I don't have time. I can't. Yeah. You want to do this? Let's do it. And so he's doing, it's called preaching and preachers.

55:10

And the inaugural date of this is going to be April 15th tax day. But, uh, basically if, if you're a young man, you feel called to preach.

55:17

You know, there's some things you need to fill out. Like it's not just open. Like. We got to know that some things about you promise not to preach heresy.

55:25

Well, you know, there's some things that, you know, but basically the idea is at least try an opportunity for young men to preach and then get feedback.

55:32

And when I say young men, that's loose to it. It doesn't necessarily have to be young men preachers. Yeah. New preachers that, that feel called to preach, but they don't have a lot of opportunity to preach and they would like to preach and they would like to maybe hear some feedback from some godly brothers.

55:45

So you can, uh, I, I guess I'll just say this. If you, if you're on Twitter, gunner is at, uh, at gunner

55:53

G U N N E R underscore made. Well, that's his last name. Really? M a

55:59

D E W E L L. So you can look him up there. And if you want more information about that, you can check him out.

56:05

But I just wanted to, uh, just want to give that plug. I think it's going to be a good deal. I don't know what it's going to look like yet.

56:10

We hadn't done it, but I think I'm, I'm encouraged by gunner taking the bull by the horns and running with it. And we'll, we'll see what happens.

56:16

And I always appreciate you brothers. Even, even early in the morning. Yeah. Yeah. We see that.

56:23

By you showing up. Well, Quatro, it was good having you on brother.

56:28

Um, listeners be on the lookout for a change of heart coming out. Um, and then in the meantime, you can pick up two other books that Quatro has written.

56:38

Um, don't Google Quatro, Google Alan Nelson, the fourth, uh, before the throne.

56:44

And then from death to life and be recognized in the meantime. Thank you for having coming on. Uh, Quatro D two

56:50

T Ford in the background. Gunner made. Well, CD coming at you. If you really believe the church is the building of churches, the house, the church is what

57:07

God's doing. This, this is his work. If we really believe what Ephesians says, we are the poem master masterpiece of God.