October 30, 2017 Show with Josh Buice on “Tracing the Birth of America Back to the Protestant Reformation” AND “The New Calvinists”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio

platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron.

So one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed when we

converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

Now, here's our host.

Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio.

Dot -com this is Chris Arns in your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you a happy Monday on this

30th day of October 2017.

I'm so delighted to have one of my favorite guests back on the program today.

His name is Josh Bice, he is senior pastor at Praise Mill Baptist Church of

Douglasville, Georgia.

He's a blogger at delivered by grace .com and Director of the annual g3

conference, which is coming up in just a few months January 17th through the 20th the

17th being an all Spanish version of the conference and the 18th through the 20th being all in English, but

today We are not only going to be discussing the conference a little bit but primarily our theme is going

to be tracing the birth of America back to the Protestant Reformation and then we

want to Spend a little time towards the end of the program.

Getting a sneak preview of pastor Josh's new book on the new Calvinists.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to onion sharpens iron radio pastor Josh Bice.

The lighted to be with you Chris and in studio with me is my co -host the Reverend buzz Taylor.

It's great to be here.

And you really think we're gonna accomplish all that within two hours.

Yeah, I think that we could do it.

And if anybody would like to join us our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris

Arnzen at gmail .com CH RIS a RN Z n at gmail .com and

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA when you're asking a

question and You may remain anonymous if it is about a personal and private matter.

So we will certainly allow you to Not bring attention to your identity if

it is about something that is intimately private and personal.

But otherwise, please give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

Well, first of all, I know that you've already done this a number of times but Iron sharpens iron radio seems to be

gaining new people in the listening audience every day.

So if you could let our listeners especially for the sake of those who have never heard you on this broadcast before let our listeners

know something about praise.

Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia a.

Baptist Church that's Located just west of Atlanta me five years old.

We just celebrated that Anniversary a couple of weeks ago.

So I've been serving here's the the lead pastor of the church for just over seven years.

My wife and I both grew up here as children and then I went away to study At

seminary and then pastored out of state for a number of years before in God's providence.

Being called back here to serve the church where we grew up as children.

So just privileged to serve these people and yeah, just

praise God and.

For those of you listening who might be trying to Google You might immediately think that it's

spelt Praise email Baptist Church as if it is a praise mill.

But it's PRA.

Why apostrophe s named after?

Someone involved in the founding of that church if you could explain that again briefly.

Yes, so a man named Ephraim Pray came here.

He had inheritance money from

his father and There was no church close by and so in those days he would have had to travel by, you know a

horse and buggy or something of that nature and so he donated a piece of

land and donated the lumber from his sawmill that he was running there.

A lumber mill and So the church was constituted but

he refused so they named it after his mill so they still in claim of.

That's an interesting way of getting around it.

And of course One of the things that I am excited about is the upcoming g3

conference.

This will be God willing my second G3 conference.

Manning and exhibitors booth for iron sharpens iron radio.

There and it was such a joy the last time I was so pleasantly

surprised to meet So many people who listen

to iron sharpens iron radio that I had never Heard from before.

These were not people that Had sent in questions, although I had

met a number of those folks to finally face -to -face.

People who had Contacted the program since its inception and I had never

met them physically prior to that.

But there were so many people that told me how much they loved the program and I didn't even know who they were.

I can still remember a Black brother from England shouting across the

room.

You may know who he is.

His name is Kofi.

I did not know who he was then, but he yelled out in a thick British accent

Brother odds and all in shop and Zion.

And he and he was just one of many people who told me how much they loved the show and Also

subsequently to being there Those great folks at grace life radio in Lake City,

Florida have added me to their lineup and they had as you know An exhibitors booth there as well.

And find that there are so many different relationships to have

a reunion and many.

So.

Tell us about the g3 conference.

I know it stands for grace gospel and glory.

And tell us about why you started these and something of the history of them

and also Obviously tell us something about the one that's coming up in January.

The g3 conference was started out of a desire to have a Theology

conference not a pep rally for Christians or anything like that.

But a theology conference in the Atlanta area.

This was in the year just prior to 2013.

We really started praying about it in 2011 and We started the

conference in 2013.

We thought it would be a local area conference.

But as people registered we learned very quickly that God had other plans because he not only

caused the first annual conference to sell out and.

And a waiting list was established and we had people showing up and college students sleeping in their cars in

January but What happened was we noticed that people were

registering from all over the country and even outside of the country.

So what we thought would be just a local.

The Lord changed and so that was year one and it's been that way all

through year five really.

And again year five we moved to a convention centers and

so the I'm often asked, you know by by pastors and other

people.

How did we?

Accomplish this or could we maybe lay out some blueprints so that people can see you know The

secrets behind the g3 conference.

And really I just have to be honest We prayed and God really raised up this conference for his glory.

Amen.

Mm -hmm.

Well, I'm gonna ask an audience question right away because it has to do with the g3 conferences.

We have a first -time listener and I hope I'm not mispronouncing the name of the city.

But it looks like no name.

Oh British Columbia, Canada.

And a an a IMO.

I can't even think of another way to pronounce that but no doubt there is a different way to pronounce it but Janice

and.

The name Oh British Columbia, Canada says my name is Janice and I have a question for Pastor Josh.

Can you share with us a humorous and or moving? Experience that

you have had at any of the previous g3 conferences.

There are many memories I could share with people but I guess one of the

most things that that I've been able to be.

A few years ago when we had the conference.

Here on our church campus.

We had a Bible group here that has historic Bibles and and documents from church

history and they were all in display in the exhibit hall and I went up to the group and I

said, you know I said I really want to lead off the conference tomorrow

in the first session I'm gonna be preaching about the importance and I just wanted to

know if maybe you you could come up and stand beside me in the pulpit and hold

up this first edition, you know 1560 Geneva Bible.

And.

The person looked at me and said no and I was shocked.

I thought well, you know I thought that they would at least come up there and stand beside the the pulpit with me and they said

I have.

Even I have something even better than that.

And I thought what's that.

And they said you can actually take the 1560 Geneva Bible into the pulpit with you and preach from it

and Wow, I was delighted.

Yeah.

I was delighted overjoyed to take that that Bible that Bible of the Reformation into

the pulpit and just be able to preach from that text.

It was it was a tremendous joy.

But yeah, in fact, I'm looking at it right now.

I actually took it with me.

I'm only kidding.

Yeah, yeah, you probably do have a copy of it, but I'm talking about the actual yes.

But but one of the other things, you know through the g3 is

that each year when Paul Washer comes and preaches

Again, we've had lots of different Conversations and memories to share through the years but one thing

that sticks out is that people will line up to talk to him and he

sat in it to just you know

speak to these people that have traveled to listen to the sermons preached and Instead of just

trying to say, you know, I'll talk to you tomorrow or send me an email or something of that nature.

He literally just anyone that wants to spend time there until

the very unique that you don't see with a lot of the other speakers.

So that I guess one of the early memories was year number one

the conference sold out.

We were very new at doing these conferences and really didn't know what to expect.

We had a waiting list established for people to get into the conference and There were college

students that showed up in the parking lot and were sleeping in their car.

And wow, it was January with cold.

And so I went and told them that you know, you're not going to sleep and opened up my house

brought them to my home.

And just allowed them to sleep there so that they would have a room, you know somewhere where they could get warm but you know really

good memories and or from all

around the country and outside of the country as a ministry is just a just a Wonderful treat a wonderful joy.

Amen, and I got to tell you that right now I Am only

three people away from having interviewed everybody on your speaking roster.

The only three people that I have not yet interviewed on that very long roster are

Votie Balcombe and I've met Votie on a couple of occasions and he keeps promising me.

He'll be on the program.

It just hasn't happened yet.

Keith Getty and HB Charles jr.

Those are the only three that have not been on iron.

Trip is iron and I'll let our listeners know again.

This list of speakers Stephen Lawson Votie Balcombe Phil Johnson Keith Getty HB Charles jr Tim Challis Josh

Bryce James White Tom Askew Anthony Matheny and Michael Krueger David Miller Paul Tripp Todd Friel Derek Thomas Martha

Peace and Justin Peters, so I've had all of them except for the three I mentioned.

So perhaps anything that you can do to help me get them on would be appreciated.

But it's and all of them have been Fascinating.

I think the most recent interview I had for the first time with one of those speakers was

David Miller and what a joy that was.

He is quite a brother and I look forward to having him back on the program many times.

Yeah, David Miller.

Well, as I mentioned at the outset of the program our theme today is

tracing the birth of America back to the Protestant Reformation and What was it that began?

Your.

Investigation to connect these two very.

World.

Shaking monumental events because even the birth of America had ramifications outside of

our own shores.

So if you could let us know about how the connection and how you started to become

Interested in and how you found out there was a connection.

Yeah, well, I mean again just study of church history is always intriguing to me but here recently

I was speaking on a Reformation tour all through Germany and As I was speaking

on this tour I was also having conversations with different people and one of the

Individuals had invited me to speak at another event where he asked me to address this very

issue.

And so I just wanted to as I'm thinking through these things and as I've I've thought through the

connection.

It's it's quite intriguing but at the at the Foundational level you

might say the providence of God as we think about

America's founding history and as we think about the founders and how they arrived here the separatists

the Puritans.

As we think about these these issues.

They can all be traced back to a definitive most

celebrate that moment tomorrow on Reformation Day five hundred years ago when Martin

Luther walked down those Cobblestone streets of Wittenberg and he nailed his

95cc to the castle door there.

It wasn't as many people believe, you know out of protest.

He's really just trying to engage in a local debate.

He's trying to have a conversation.

He had no Facebook.

He had no iron sharpens iron to go on.

I.

Mean he literally had no Twitter.

He had no social media.

So his social media of the day Was the front door of that castle church?

And so he posted that document

this theology students because you see Luther was a professor of theology

there in Wittenberg and some of his Theology

students.

Not an outright protest but but more or less a debate.

He was challenging the authorities over that.

Absolutely.

He was challenging them and So and they went and they took it to a

printer now.

You have to understand how the providence of God is working here.

Just a few years before there was a man named Gutenberg who took a wine press and he

Transformed this wine press into a movable type print time

now you have Printing technology that's been

instituted and so now books are Easily printed documents are easily

printed in a very can get

their hands on these documents very quickly, you know.

Technology that just revolutionized the world and God used a Catholic by the

way.

His Gutenberg was a Catholic.

He he was raised a Catholic and he died a Catholic.

But yet God used him to invent a technology that would be used to

spark this Reformation.

So documents spread about and people started having this conversation

more widespread than Luther ever thought.

What happened and So we now

know is the Protestant Reformation

and it would begin to and it would go to

various

inverted until 1519.

Now there are others that take an earlier date.

James White I know is one of your favorite guests.

He and I have this is ongoing Spirited debate.

He takes an earlier date of Luther's conversion.

I take a later date.

I believe it was 1519.

So 1520 is converted.

He received a wild

boar that's loose in God's vineyard and he's calling Luther, too.

And so he's given Luther 60 days.

This papal bull comes with the official red seal.

It signifies it's it's from the Pope himself.

So Luther waits until the end of that 60 -day period.

He goes out to the city to the edge of the city of Wittenberg takes to be

read this Papal bull and then does the unthinkable he burns it.

He burns it right there outside of the city gate of Wittenberg.

And so now what you have is you have a line that's being drawn in the sand.

What started out as an internal conversation locally there in Wittenberg.

Sparked into a widespread open debate that then was now after Luther's conversion

he's writing and preaching and stating things are very Confrontational

and so now there that there's this desire of the Pope to call this man down.

And so when he refuses to stand down instead he Publicly defies the Pope by

burning this document in the streets.

Well now there's a clear division that's taking place here.

So you move from there in 1520 to

the year 1521.

Where there was this imperial diet this very important meeting that was to be held in the city of Worms

provided there.

They said listen weeks too dangerous.

They're already You know Anti -reformation he

would be joining Luther.

He really just looks to his friends and he says

look at the rise in Burma.

So he he doesn't just slide into firms.

As many people have made it known throughout history he literally preached his way to

this and he arrived there in a covered wagon and On the very

day that he was to stay in trial two guards were just

a residence where he was staying and They were to escort him

when they they arrived.

It's a buzz everyone wanted to get a good standing

up in you know to this rope himself.

So hated Luther they were in the streets and that were just amazed.

He's like the first Christian celebrity if you will and

they marched him up the street.

They had to slide him in a back alleyway into a back door to get him into The

room where the Imperial Diet was being held

his humble monks attire Charles the

fifth the Emperor himself and he looks and he sees Luther coming and

he says to himself.

He kind of mumbled this he said I will not allow him to make a heretic out

of me.

Wow the interesting thing was at this point Luther is told to remain silent

called upon to speak and Then when he was, you know, eventually called upon to speak.

It was quite clear that it was going to be a different scenario than Luther thought.

I mean, he sees this table and all of his books there.

He thought he was going to be debating justification by faith alone or something of that nature but but at that

point they called upon him and they said are these your books and Will you recant of

everything knew that it sure he he did say

these are my books.

But he asked for additional time to consider his answer and as you well know the following day at six o 'clock.

They brought him back to stand before the same Hierarchy all of the leaders and they

went through the same routine again.

And but this time they thought maybe this monk's going to come in.

He's going to apologize for this whole scene and He's going to recant and this whole thing

of the Reformation is just going to go away.

It's just going to slide off into history.

But when they called upon Luther to speak they knew at that moment that the monk was not

planning to stand down.

Instead he speaks up with bold confidence and he refuses to recant.

He says, you know, basically that down by the scriptures.

He is quoted in his comp to God.

He said I can it is neither safe nor right to go

against conscience.

I cannot do otherwise here I stand may God help me.

Amen.

Now at crying out for blood they're calling for his life.

He's taken immediately out of the bishops palace and that was the definitive mark of the

Reformation at that point if if the 1517 mark of the 95 cc sparked

it and if the dead of the papal bull being burned in 1520 was the line being drawn

in the sand the diet of worms was the.

Because that's where Luther was saying in essence to Charles the fifth

and to the Roman Catholic Church I am standing here on the gospel and you're standing on

something else and it's not the gospel of Jesus Christ.

And that's where the Reformation literally exploded.

Well praise God.

Well, we're going to be finding out the connection between this Earth -shaking

historical event that transformed the landscape of Europe

In the 16th century and which has ripple effects continuing to this day.

We were going to find out the connection between that and the history of the founding of the

United States of America.

After these messages if anybody would like to join us our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris ar n ze n at gmail .com.

And please give us your first name your city and state in your country of Residence if you live outside of the good old

USA you may remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter over which you were asking

and I have some exciting news that Pastor Josh Bice has just let me know about.

Everyone who registers for the g3 conference through midnight tomorrow and Enters the

special promo code iron sharpens iron no spaces between words

Will receive a $45 discount on registration so enter the promo code iron

sharpens iron with no spaces in between and by the way Does it matter if the the eyes and

iron and the essence sharpens are capitalized?

It's case -sensitive so Spell it like you would if you were writing the title of my program iron

sharpens iron with all lowercase except for the eyes and iron and the essence

sharpens and You will get a $45 discount.

So thank you very much for that Pastor Bice and I hope that all of you listening make note of that

and that gives you an extra Boost and extra motivation to want to come to this conference.

You really don't want to miss this conference if any conference You want to go to

it would be?

This one if you need to sacrifice going to other conferences.

This is the one that you should be at because it's really Something that you will remember for a long

time to come.

I'm I'm confident of judging from my last experience at my first G3

conference this past January.

But we look forward to hearing from you and your questions for Josh Bice after these messages from our sponsors.

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Hi, I'm pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern Time on WLIE radio

www .wlie 540 a .m. Dot -com.

We bring biblically faithful Pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively useful and I assure you never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs

a pastor.

And here's another shout -out to pastor Bill Shishko of a visit to the pastor's

study and of Reformation Metro, New York and of Greenville Presbyterian Theological

Seminary.

He was our guest speaker our keynote speaker at the last

iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon, which took place this past Thursday and Reverend

buzz Taylor wasn't that a blessing that one sure was met a lot of people there was wonderful.

Yeah, we had about a hundred people show up, which is what we expected due to the

Registrations that were coming in more people showed up than registered which seems to be always the case,

but that's fine we did have enough food for everybody and beverages and all that, but what a wonderful time

a fellowship and I thank all of those publishers out there who donated so

many wonderful books To be given away for free at this event.

Including our friends at Ligonier ministries who donated quite a number of books in the Reformation hardback really

beautiful expensive books all free of charge and of course

we had We had Steve Bloom state representative of Pennsylvania was our guest

of honor and he's now running for Congress.

He is a fine Unwaveringly faithful Christian.

He is not somebody who just tries to fake a Christian faith to appease a

certain segment of society to win votes.

He is the real deal and a member of a PCA Presbyterian Church in America

congregation here in the area in Mechanics Berg to be exact was so great to see him there

and Pray for Steve as he's running for Congress because there was a firestorm of

Feminists attacks on Facebook after our event a lot

of angry women out there because they were not invited to this exclusively male pastor luncheon

and There were last I counted over 200 Comments the majority

of which were were nasty comments.

But there were some people coming to my defense including sisters in Christ who were coming to my defense.

But anyway, I just thank God that the event was such a wonderful wonderful event and I did promote by the way

while I was hosting that event to the g3 conference coming up this January in Atlanta,

Georgia and For all of you listening to the program and don't don't forget that the website to go

to is g3 conference .com G3 conference .com and if you put iron sharpens

iron.

In.

The promo code area all one word iron sharpens

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So the eyes in iron and the s and sharpens must be capitalized the rest

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But you'll get $45 off For your registration and I hope to see as many of you as

possible in Atlanta, Georgia this January 18th through the 20th, and of course on the

17th as I said earlier is a Spanish -speaking edition of the conference.

We are speaking now with Pastor Josh Bice senior pastor of Praise Mill Baptist

Church of Douglasville, Georgia blogger at delivered by grace calm and director of the annual g3

conference that I just mentioned and we have been addressing and will continue addressing tracing the birth of America

back to the Protestant Reformation and At some point later on we'll be getting a sneak preview of pastor Josh's

new book on the new Calvinism.

If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

And pastor Josh.

Well, it looks like the Reverend buzz Taylor has something to say.

Well, yes, as long as pastor Josh was telling us that he believes the Reformation exploded

in 1521.

Do we have an anniversary date for that?

I think that we'll probably say shit about that Church

historians once you press that, you know upon us in the upcoming days.

All right.

Well, we do have a listener another first -time listener Mel in Shelby, North

Carolina.

Mel says I grew up in the IFB movement independent fundamentalist Baptist.

I'm assuming that means right?

I'm assuming I have family who are expressing concern for me and my

family as we have Purposefully sought out a Bible Church that is reformed in their

soteriology.

My question is regarding their recent expressions as to why Luther and Calvin are

celebrated.

Who while defending justification by faith alone? also were

sacerdotal and persuaded other believers.

Instead of celebrating Baptist forefathers who seemingly had more fully separated from Roman

doctrines How do I study church history in a balanced way and are there indeed?

Baptists who should be celebrated during the Reformation?

I am listening to James White's sermons on church history.

Any other suggestions?

Well, I mean, I think that the point you raised about studying church

history and being valid.

Here's what we must understand.

Is that these were former's that God raised up He raised

them up Deformed the

gospel of the Roman Catholic Church, but here's what y 'all understand is that It would be

Unbalanced for us to raise up Luther, Calvin Zwingli, Knox

John Huss who's a pre -reformation reformer Wycliffe And the list

goes on up and make them out to be you know

Heroes in an unblemished way.

We need to understand that these people That we know from church history.

We know them because of their Commitment to the gospel their commitment to honor God, but they were

very much sinful wretched sinners that needed a Savior and

So the way that I like to point it out is like what I'm what I like to

point out the fact that Mary herself needed salvation through Christ

alone and That she was not somehow Beyond sin or beyond the stain of

sin we see that even in in Mary's own prayer where she calls Christ you

know her Savior and so as we think about those very issues we need to look

Look look to the Reformation with a proper lens and see that Luther and Calvin and these

reformers were very much men Who were sinful and they needed Christ

as their Savior.

So did they say foolish things did they say?

Things that you know we wouldn't necessarily I mean did they have

doctrinal positions that we would not agree with.

Absolutely, so we need to be balanced and so that's the key now listening to James White

you know Church history talks and things of that nature you're going to hear him reference even some

Anabaptists that We could learn from that we could celebrate their

commitment.

We say we see a Almost

a happening you see you know that some Anabaptists were Persecuted by

you know years later, and so we have to make sense of these things and we have to be balanced.

We have to be willing to say that not every single issue of Luther or

Calvin or any of the Reformers That were you know not in line with the

gospel.

You know somehow out of bounds should be balanced and

was not an unblemished man.

He was in many ways especially beyond 1525 I mean Luther was

Was in many ways just a bit very troubling things about the

Jews as well.

So I think we have to be I do however.

Perhaps you agree or disagree with me.

I'm not sure I do Disagree with our listeners

description of Luther and Calvin being Sacerdotal.

First of all they did not believe in a new covenant priesthood and They did not believe

although Luther maintained baptismal regeneration in which you and I would strongly disagree with

he did not believe in priests having some kind of a supernatural power to

Transform the elements of the Eucharist even though they Lutherans maintain a view where

Christ is truly present in above and around The the elements

something that I don't even understand what they're talking about.

But they do not believe that those are elements to be worshipped.

They do not believe that it is a that the mass if you will is a Perpetuatory

sacrifice.

And of course Calvin was even farther away from those views Believing in the

spiritual presence of Christ in the Eucharist, but not In any sense like Luther did

so do you think that they could be rightly described as sacerdotal?

No, absolutely not.

I don't think so.

I think that I think that Luther and Calvin I think that they're standing firmly against

transubstantiation.

I think they're standing against the idea that there is a fresh sacrifice of Jesus

Christ on that altar however, like you mentioned Luther did

you know embrace an idea that has become known as Consubstantiation so

that the presence of Christ is there in around or beneath

the actual bread and in the You know on the table and so we have to think about

what does he mean by that now.

Luther himself would come to say That he disagreed with the idea of Consubstantiation, but if

you read the definition of what he's saying It's very close to consubstantiation and

you're right to say that Calvin moved beyond that.

He was well beyond Luther on

this in a position that on the

subject of sanctiation that there is this transforming of the

elements into the actual body and actual blood of Jesus Christ on

That altar so yeah, I would I would have to move beyond that that's one of the things that was so

troubling to the Reformers when they came to faith out of is

They looked to the cell of indulgence Substantiation and as we move on

in this discussion and talk about the connection of America's birth to the Reformation.

There are men who were burned in the streets as a result of this Reformation

movement.

Not just for their translation of the Bible but because of their unwillingness to

embrace the doctrine of Transubstantiation, so I don't believe that these Reformers were were at all test or doodle

in their their conviction.

And lastly not to belabor this one question that the listener had.

But he also says he also claims that Luther and Calvin were

involved in Persecuting other believers instead of celebrating Baptist forefathers

now.

I know that Luther sinned grievously in the area of not

offering safe passage to Anabaptists and that the that the

The throne in Germany was involved in very harsh.

Brutal.

Persecution of Anabaptists and and Calvin was involved.

In.

At the very least Condoning the execution of Michael Servetus who was a

Unitarian and also a militant anti -trinitarian.

He wasn't some passive person minding his own business.

He was somebody that after being threatened on many occasions Continued to come back to Geneva

to spread his heresy.

Not that I believe that that warranted the death penalty.

Nor do I do nor do I do nor do I?

Believe that any heretic is worthy of being executed for that

alone and I think most Christians today share that view.

But to call Luther and Calvin persecutors of Those of other religions

and specifically Baptists that would be a an error on this listeners part too, wouldn't it?

I do believe that you know, there were Troubling issues that might surround, you know the way that they true.

He he had a he had a tongue that was not all well.

He had a he had a you know, that was part of you know the the ongoing

sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in his life that never really reached a level of

great sanctification.

Unfortunately, he would say things about people like Anabaptist and whatnot, but Calvin

on the other hand.

He is oftentimes, you know linked to this Cervetus issue and

what we have to understand is that the church in Geneva in Calvin's day Was very much and

you know.

That are at play in that particular time period that we would not have in our own

context.

Especially here in America with the freedom of worship.

That's completely disconnected from Calvin is

consenting to his his execution.

We might not agree on the the issues senting but what we have to understand is it

wasn't Calvin himself that's he's literally Under

the authority who

was very own theologically with the gospel.

So he was a heretic and So, you know again, I think that we have to be balanced when we

read church history.

We don't need to let Luther and Calvin off on everything.

But we need to be careful that we don't charge them with sin or with a crime that they

certainly did not commit.

Yes, and I know that Calvin wrote a harsh treatise against the

Anabaptists, but he did not to my memory call for their torture and

execution or anything like that and In fact, he was begging The

Genevan authorities to execute Cervetus mercifully and not by burning him to

death as they did.

In fact, I heard a new spin on that.

I heard for the first time in my life by some scholar very Were very

knowledgeable of Calvin that he believes that the Genevan authorities did that on purpose to actually make

Calvin look bad.

Because they were opposed to Calvin on certain fronts.

I know that there were many people in Geneva upset with him because he he was instrumental in

transforming Geneva from an immoral sewer to a place of

Infinitely a greater.

Outward.

Piety and reverence and so on.

And there were a lot of people who I think may have been losing money because of that.

But but have you heard that.

Have you heard that theory.

Because I just heard it very recently.

Yeah, I have heard that theory and I don't know, you know what to make of it, but I do know this much.

I do know that cow that surveyed us be

Executed and in a more humane fashion such as beheading.

Sorry, right be considered torture.

But they refuse to listen to Calvin.

So, you know We have to be careful not to Calvin or just read something on

some blog site and just hold that to be.

Definitive truth.

Well, thank you Mel in Shelby, North Carolina.

And since you are a first -time Listener or should I say? Questioner because you may have been listening for years

for all I know, but you're since you're a first -time questioner and you're from the United States you receive

a Free New American Standard Bible compliments of the publishers of the NASB and also compliments of our friends

at Cumberland Valley Bible book service CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service

Comm that CV BBS comm and We thank Todd and Patty Jennings for being

faithful Supporters of Iron Trip and Zion radio and for shipping out all of our winners in our audience their free books

Bibles DVDs and other Things that they win by submitting questions.

We apologize to our listener in Canada but the offer of the free Bibles is exclusively for United States

residents because of the shipping costs and we Know that the CV BBS comm

ships out a lot of books and Bibles.

So the.

The.

Shipping costs would really mount up to a very very costly Level, in fact, it probably it

is already, but it would be really magnified many times over if we were Shipping

books out to Canada and overseas.

So we apologize for that.

But perhaps someday we could Start including Canada and other countries on the

on the winners list and We're gonna go to our midway break right now.

This is a longer break than normal.

Grace life radio in Lake City, Florida requires that we take a 12 -minute break in between

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So please be patient with us and Why don't you register for the g3 conference while

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Don't go away.

God willing.

We'll be right back after these messages with more of Josh Bice and his connection between

The founding the the birth of America and the Protestant Reformation.

So don't go away.

God willing.

We will be right back.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Sorenson.

And before we return to our discussion with pastor Josh Bice

of Praise Mill Baptist Church and The founder and director of the g3 conference,

which is coming up in January from the 17th through the 20th the 17th being a Spanish -speaking

edition and the 18th through the 20th being the English version of the conference.

Before I return to pastor Josh, I just have some important upcoming announcements to make

first of all next month November 17th through the

18th the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is Having their annual

Quakertown conference on reform theology at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quakertown, Pennsylvania.

I intend to be there myself with the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth

possibly the reverend buzz Taylor may be there with me if he has time to Fit that in his schedule and the

speakers include Kent Hughes Peter Jones Tom Nettles Dennis Cahill and Scott Oliphant.

The theme is for still our ancient foe and that is obviously a reference to Satan from the

classic Reformation hymn by Martin Luther a mighty fortress and If you'd like to register

for the Quakertown conference on reform theology go to Alliance net

org.

That's Alliance net org click on events and then click on Quakertown conference

on reform Theology and then coming up after that is the aforementioned

and long -awaited g3 conference January 17th through the 20th.

January 17th once again is exclusively a Spanish -speaking edition of the conference and the 18th through the 20th

is In English and the theme this January is knowing God a

biblical understanding of discipleship.

Speakers include Stephen Lawson Votie Balcom Phil Johnson Keith Getty HB Charles jr Tim Challis

Josh Bice James white Tom Askell Anthony Matheny and Michael Kruger David Miller Paul trip Todd Friel Derek

Thomas Martha piece and Justin Peters.

If you would like to register for this conference go to g3 conference calm G3 conference

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We are facing a financial crisis like iron sharpens iron radio has never known in the history of the program.

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If you want to advertise with us whether it's your church your parachurch organization your business your corporation.

Your professional practice whether you're a doctor a dentist a lawyer a chiropractor.

Well, send me an email and put advertising in the subject line just send it to Chris Arnzen at gmail

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Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and I will discuss with you launching an ad campaign.

I would love to do that because we definitely need your advertising dollars and

We will be happy to accommodate you on an ad campaign as long as whatever it is.

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Your request for an ad campaign and we would love to launch one with you as soon as possible.

But now we are back with our guest Josh Bice who is

pastor of the senior pastor of the Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia.

He is a blogger at delivered by grace Calm and director of the annual g3 conference that we've

been talking about.

We are discussing tracing the birth of America back to the Protestant Reformation.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

chris ar n ze n at gmail .com and We also have in

studio the reverend buzz Taylor who's my co -host and it's great to have you back buzz and

Let's see, oh we have a clarification from Mel in

Shelby, North Carolina.

He says thanks so much Chris for taking the time with my question.

I just wanted to clarify That these are not my accusations.

But the common things that are thrown around as facts in the independent fundamentalist

Baptist movement so That was what he was saying.

He wasn't saying that those were his opinion.

So I thought I'd clarify that for our Friend Mel in Shelby, North Carolina.

And by the way, Mel, we still have not received your full mailing address For the New American Standard Bible

unless you're afraid to get that NASB because you're out of an IF be.

A background.

Maybe you haven't shed that part of it yet.

They're not poisonous.

But in fact, they're very nice Bibles.

What are you kidding me nice?

They're the best Bibles out there.

They help support iron sharpens iron radio, and they're the finest Translation on the planet earth.

In fact, I know Quite a number of scholars who will actually tell me that they even though

that the NASB may not Currently be the the biggest seller or most popular in that sense

Bible, they will tell me and I'm truly not making this up or exaggerating.

I've heard that it is the favorite amongst a number of scholars.

I'm talking about even the leather covers.

Oh, yeah, they're beautiful.

Yeah, even The faux leather covers are really nice that you would swear they were leather.

But anyway, that's not what we're talking about right now.

And.

Let's go back to your investigation as to the connection between the Protestant Reformation and

the founding of America or the birth of our nation.

Absolutely.

Well in the previous conversation before the break we left off with

a diet of firms when he leaves firms He is kidnapped by

friends and taken to this this fortress this castle called the part bird castle.

And it would be there that he would have the safety to engage in a bearer

of the Reformation in fact if if we say that the

explosion of firms at the diet of firms is what Really just press the

Reformation forward.

I think that what happened in the year 1522 as Luther is

Hiding out in this castle what took place there really is is the engine

behind the Reformation and it's the translation of the German New

Testament by Luther from the original language into the

the common man's language in Germany the German language and so in 1522 Luther

breathed their Bible and He labored really while he was at the castle there

at about the rate of about 1 ,500 words per day.

To get this to get this Bible completed.

Certainly the Reformation is moving forward and the Bible is being brought to the people so that

and you know mumblings there in the

cathedrals now you have open Bibles and you have pulpits and you have men who are

standing there and they're Preaching the gospel on the Lord's Day in the

common man's language.

Which was

now leading their families and devotions in their homes with open Bibles now There's the spark of

congregational singing all of this came as a result of the German Bible and so this

was Tremendous as it relates to the movement of

the Rev a man who's meeting with a small group

he's he's a British man and He's he's again in

Cambridge meeting with a group of people in what's called the fight

and he's meeting there with a group of the works and

they're trying to consider whether or not

he is speaking the truth and So they're they're gathering and they're just sitting around there.

They're hanging out there and soon these these

cats they're leaving the Roman Catholic Church and one of

these individuals now William Tyndale would be

Used as a wonderful tool by God who would go off eventually and he would

He would have a similar desire as Luther.

He would commit his life to the translation of the English Bible.

So Now you have Tyndale who's standing on the shoulders of Luther and he

translates the New Testament into English.

So that what happened in 1522 with the German New Testament Sparks what happened later in

15th New Testament as

these English New Testaments are placed in cotton bales.

And they're sent down the Rhine River and they make their way into England.

I mean this was the providence of God bringing this about

so Eventually, we know the story Tyndale is hunted down.

He's found and he's he's eventually tried and he's burned at the stake.

But before they could destroy all of his works there was a man by the name of John Rogers who

took his Old Testament work that wasn't yet complete and He went and completed that work.

Finished out the translation of the Old Testament.

Printed two large letters at the end of Malachi WT in memory of William Tyndale

attached Tyndale's New Testament to it and that was what we know as the Matthew Bible and

Eventually There would be another work that would take place there in Geneva.

You have all of these people who are fleeing persecution and they're coming to this the city of

Geneva because years earlier the city of Geneva had voted in

the Reformation and so these people are fleeing there for Safety and one of those men

that was there at that time Came there for that very purpose was a man by the name of John Knox

so here in in Geneva, you have this hotbed if you will of reformers

that are being trained for the ministry that are training missionaries and sending them out and they're

also engaging in another very important work, which was called the work of the 1560

Geneva Bible and so it would be that Bible the first study Bible you

have the writings of the Reformers in the footnotes and in the margins you have

illustrations Bible that was the world's first study Bible in English and

Then it's eventually used all throughout England and so You

have 1522 the German Bible by Luther.

You have 1526 the English Bible By the New Testament by Tyndale.

You eventually have John Rogers finishing out the Old Testament work with the Matthew Bible and then eventually the 1560

Geneva Bible now all of this to put into perspective what happens is the

Reformation continues to ebb, so now you have the

separate against the teachings of

different ways in the Puritans where the Puritans you have to remember we're trying to

purify from within and Much the same way that the Reformers like Luther were trying

to Reform what had been deformed within bloated

into an external movement.

So now you have the separatists who take their families and they get on a boat and

in 1620 they sailed to the New World on the boat known as the Mayflower and

When they got off of that boat onto the soil of the ground that we now call America

and they planted churches.

They took with them off of that boat This Bible that we call the 1560 Geneva

Bible the Bible of the Reformation.

So eventually ten years later you have the Puritans in 1630 that make their way over and they join the

separatists and they begin to grow and they begin to To expand with the planting of churches.

This would be the the building blocks if you will of the

founding of America and All of this can be traced right back to what

happened 500 years ago tomorrow on October 31st 1517

as Luther made his way to the castle in and nailed that

95 feces there that would be the initial Spark, so all of this is connected.

So why did the separatists come to America?

Why did they come to this new world that we now know as America?

Why did the Puritans come here and give up the the purification from within?

Why did they come of this tsunami of the Reformation

that eventually pressed this new world?

So Would there be an information?

I don't believe that the America that we know today would be in existence if it were

not for the work of was raising up and bringing them from from

the shadows if you will and Taking us back to the Word of God and and in this

what we call a recovery of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

And by the way as speaking of that Door of the castle church in Wittenberg.

Didn't I just see a photograph of you and your wife standing in front of it?

Oh.

Absolutely, just about a little more than a month ago.

My wife and I were in the city of Wittenberg.

We had wonderful privilege of Worshiping in the castle church there.

We James White preached that particular session.

We had our right from Martin Luther's pulpit.

Yeah, yeah, I mean.

Literally Luther is buried beneath the pulpit just a few

days after that.

I actually preached in.

In the church in Iceland where

the last full preach in that very

church.

So it praise God.

Well, we have some more listener questions.

Let's see, we have Ronald in Eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

Who says isn't it true that The the teachings

of John Calvin were utilized by the founding fathers of

America to actually formulate their understanding of a free republic.

I don't mean all of the founding fathers, but a certain group of them who took.

Calvin's thoughts and ran

with

them of the nation eventually.

Were influenced by the reformers.

I mean, there's no by these reformers such as Luther such as Calvin.

America itself was never Founded as a

it was Founded by many Christians and it was influenced by many Christians,

but not all of those founding fathers whose signatures we find on the

On the governing documents of this nation.

Hey, they were not all in

throughout history.

But many of those men were deists and many of those men were were men that we would not

Embrace as brothers in Christ.

I know I know this for certain that the Puritans would never have

Have embraced many of those founding fathers as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

Well, thank you Ronald and Please keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio

and Suffolk County Long Island and beyond.

We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania.

And Arnie Says how do you respond to the common Roman

Catholic claim?

That it is the Reformation that brought anarchy into Christianity

and Ultimately resulted in all of the cults that have sprung up like the

Mormons the Jehovah's Witnesses and others Due to their breaking

free from any authority of Rome.

Yes,

so

then we

go back to the Reformation.

We ask ourselves cry gospel

new

predates

the Reformation.

We see that under the gospel.

So the Reformers are tried been deformed and they're bringing us

they're driving us back to the scriptures.

They're driving us back to the gospel of Jesus Christ.

When it was made clear would not Move back and repent of the

sale of indulgences and all of these evil practices.

Again, when the people are getting the Bible in their own language, they start to revolt.

This is where the Reformation start gain momentum is when the people are

reading the Word of God and hearing the Word of God in their own language.

They're saying to themselves.

We've been lied to we've

been of the gospel.

It's not an anti -authority Movement, you have to understand.

We understand when we read the Bible that we see that authority is given to the local

church by these.

This idea of it we see that taught by

Jesus himself in Matthew 8

Hierarchy such as the Romans were absolutely right to do what they did

to bring us away from that movement.

Now, could you not say that?

That freedom Always has negative baggage and that and freedom is not the

thing to blame.

It's just a necessary Unfortunate consequence of giving people

More freedom to live and believe as they choose without fear of persecution.

I can think of one example right now in Russia right now

Homosexuality is a crime and Therefore it is most likely I'm

assuming a lot less easy to live out openly a life

committed to Homosexuality and flaunting that lifestyle and and

celebrating it then it is here in the United States where you see homosexuality applauded

and celebrated on nearly every major television and radio network and

and Printed publication and internet program and and you just have a

society these days swarming with people Celebrating that now

that is an unfortunate thing that we see that happening in the United States, but I do not want to Have

a government that is more Forcefully in control over the behavior of its

citizens like Russia is right now.

I mean am I making sense here what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Why is it that the Roman Catholic Church, why were they burning people in the streets?

We have to return to that question.

I think it's a very valid question to consider in this 500th anniversary year.

We have to go back to the reality that they were competing

and they knew that if the Word of God came to the common man in in their own language and

so you're talking about the beauty and the and the you know, the The

value of the New American Standard Standard Bible you were talking about earlier again.

Having the Bible in a reliable translation that we can utilize that people can can

have in their homes and they can read with their children and Disciple their families and hear

on the Lord's Day preach in a in an elevated pulpit.

Hey, listen, this was lacking at the authority of the

Roman Catholic Church itself.

They wanted to have control of the Bible.

That's why they did not want the Bible to be translated in the common man's language.

So what they said by their own authority and by the tradition of the church

was to be The authority but we believe that the Word of God is the sufficient

word.

We believe that the Word of God is the authoritative word.

It's that that's why the the Reformers out of the Reformation emerged this idea of this

foundational issue of the five solas.

So la scripture ority or

faith and Practice and it's not the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church, and it's

not the Pope and it's not The authority of of the Roman Catholic Church.

It is the Word of God itself.

And so at the heart of the Reformation is this movement to the Word of God

the sufficient Word of God.

Well, we're gonna go work.

I think I put too many syllables in that This statement.

We're going to go to our last Station break right now, and

if you'd like to join us with a question, I would do it now because we're rapidly running out of time.

So, please send us an email to.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state.

Country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private question.

The pastor Josh.

I just forwarded you A question email to us from Joe in

Slovenia, and it's rather long.

So I figured it would help to have it right in front of you.

So when we get back from the break You can have time you will have had time to read

that over and answer it more adequately since it will be right in front of you and If

anybody else wants to join us as I said shoot us an email now or forever hold your peace.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with the conclusion of our discussion with Josh Bice on tracing the

birth of America to the Protestant Reformation.

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Well, we are back for our final 25 minutes or so of the program with pastor Josh Bice

Senior pastor of praise meal Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia blogger at delivered by grace .com and

director of the annual G3 conference.

We have been talking about tracing the birth of America back to the Protestant Reformation and Before we

conclude that subject and move on to a new book that pastor Josh has

written on the new Calvinists.

I Wanted to read the question that has already been submitted by our friend Joe in

Slovenia.

He says during recent Reformation celebrations organized by nominal Evangelicals that I witnessed

I've noticed a trend toward emphasizing the meaning and significance of the term Protestant.

Toward.

Etymological understanding of what the word means positively instead of negatively.

Specifically they were suggesting that Protestant historically meant one that was pro

testimony that is for testifying to what we believe instead of protesting

against heresy is.

This an exercise in revisionist history compared to what actually happened historically was

not the original significance of the term Protestant related to the princes who protested

against Charles the fourth's attempts to force them back into the Holy Roman Empire without

Acquiescing to their demands for Roman Catholic Church reform.

Thank you brothers for focusing on Reformation.

Yeah, so I would just simply say that I do think that you can.

How do you think that you can make some errors here when you start to?

You know go that direction with the idea of the

Protestant look.

Protestant means to protest.

Against it does have a negative Connotation to it.

So but when you go back to the Latin you do find that it's probably coming from a Latin

word Pro test a rye which literally means to hold forth or to hold the

position.

Right, so.

That's the origin of the word Protestant.

But what are they holding holding forth a position a

testimony on the gospel?

Which therefore makes it a negative testimony against the

idea that it's a was simply not

Protestant movement.

But again, the origin of the whole Reformation itself was not initially a protest.

It was a reform movement, but it was not

possible.

So therefore it eventually became an external movement that we know today.

Holding forth to

bring us back to the true gospel that the Roman Catholic Church had deformed

and.

That's what thank you.

Joe in Slovenia, and we have a question from Josh.

Just like you in aqua bog, Long Island, New York.

And Josh says do you think it is wise for those of us who believe in the doctrines of sovereign

grace?

To continue using the label reformed.

When the term actually meant according to the original Reformers

that there was an attempt to reform the Roman Catholic Church today Those who are heirs of the

Reformation are not attempting to do that.

So shouldn't we stop using the term reformed and rather just stick to other?

labels like Sovereign grace, etc.

Why do we continue using this word when our attention our?

Attentions are far from trying to reform the Church of Rome, which we believe to be apostate and

Blasphemous and heretical.

Yeah, I think that the actual use of the the title reformed theology

Again, it's just it's a stake in the ground.

We're going back.

We looked back to the teachings of a gospel Paul.

So, you know put us in a

certain place in history.

Theologically, so I'm not really against using you know that the title reformed

theology or a reformed position of salvation.

Because I do think that it's helpful to have a stake in the ground just like a confession of faith does at times.

But again, it's all about context.

So if you're in a specific location where people have baggage

Theology and and it's going to be problematic for you to use that terminology then then by all

means use doctrines of grace, you know, if that if that's what you choose to do, but I

don't think that using the title reformed theology is somehow incorrect

in the sense that we're trying or stating if you will that we're trying to Reform the Roman Catholic Church

because we certainly know that we're not doing badly on the shoulders of these these

reformers who have gone before us.

Who were not to be worshipped?

But at the same time We're taking us back to the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

So in many ways I Love that title reformed, but I do understand what the the

gentleman's asking and again I think context is the key and we need to be able to point

people back to a have you thought about using the title?

Doctrines of grace or Something of that nature.

Well, thank you.

Josh.

Keep spreading the word about iron sharpens iron radio in aqua bog, Long Island, New York and

beyond and that I I'm also immediately what has been brought

to mind here is those that object to the term Calvinist today They

will say Calvin himself would be rolling over in his grave if we if he knew that there were

heirs of his Theological movement that were calling themselves Calvinist, but

I use these terms as I'm sure you do as very helpful theological

nicknames.

They help I think not only provoke stimulating conversation with

other Christians and Those particular particularly the disagree with us

but it separates us from The pack if you will to be more

clear as to where we are standing like for instance, I know a lot of Christians who refuse

to call themselves Armenian and They will say I simply like to call myself a Bible Christian.

I'm like, well so the Jehovah's Witnesses, so so so do a lot of

people in fact, there is a I think I mentioned it earlier.

There has been a Protest to my all male pastors luncheon

That I had last Thursday by a number of local feminists who are angry and furious

accusing me of some kind of misogyny and bigotry and that kind of thing and the and some of these

women and men who are feminists Were identifying themselves as Bible

-believing Christians as well.

So I mean, you know, you isn't it helpful to use labels at times?

Even though that it's not it's not going to settle the issue because people have stereotypes as to what those labels mean

and you have To clarify what you believe but but at least it's it's some kind of a helpful nickname, isn't it?

Yeah, I think so.

I really do but again in the context in which I serve here in in the South and Georgia

within a context of Baptist churches and evangelical circles that I you know

Associate myself with.

There's a lot of baggage where people have been, you know taught false things about you know

the doctrines of grace and so the term Calvinism stirs up anger in some people because all they've ever been

taught is that Calvinism is somehow an anti missions movement when at the heart of

Calvin's own theology in Geneva is this Explosion of gospel

missions where he's sending out missionaries who many of them died for their faith.

And so the idea of confusing hyper -Calvinism with

Calvinism is always a struggle.

So in some cases, you know I think important if people when they

have a theological conversation if they could just choose to use this and

put that At play when they're having a couple times.

I find that when having a theological conversation People

theological position rather than using the same dictionary of terms that you're using so

Terms do matter.

Definitions do matter if

they claim to be a Calvinist and I find this all the time.

It's really astounding to me you have Baptists and you have evangelicals sometimes that will

actually say things like this Well, if you're a Calvinist, you're a

you're a Harris Spurgeon and you say

What you're doing, you know Spurgeon himself was a Calvinist he called

Calvinism the Gospel again terms matter

that these theological words do matter but again, we have to

be careful not to misuse those terms or to You know somehow

Use them against someone.

So again, I'm talking to someone who's not a Calvinist.

I want to be careful not to necessarily call them in Arminian because they might not be in Arminian.

They might just be an anti -Calvinist for instance, but they don't hold to the full positions of

an Arminian.

Classifying people and putting them in specific, you know categories theologically speaking.

We have to be willing to use the same.

Okay, great.

Well now you have written something that is going to be God willing Brought into

print very soon.

It is a book on the new Calvinists.

It has also been labeled the young restless and reformed movement.

If you could please define.

What that means?

Yeah, absolutely, it's been a passion of mine for the last

several

G of God in salvation.

And what we call Calvinism that's really been

Population throughout America and even beyond the borders of America

and so it's been labeled By by different groups and individuals and different

books as the young restless reformed movement.

Colin Hansen has been identified with that title and then you have

Time magazine that caused this group a few years back The new

Calvinism movement and so again, you have to wade through all these theological

nuances and these titles, but basically to summarize it it's this

Explosion this of an

interest here.

You see the founders of America held this position.

You see the reformers like Luther and Calvin and not held these positions.

You see the founders of the Southern Baptist Convention.

They held this position.

You see the Presbyterians and you see all these others who hold dear to these convictions, but

in many ways There's been a disconnect from a lot of the younger population Throughout

the last say hundred years or so and now suddenly over the past several years You've

seen this explosion of an interest where people are are starting to be disinterested in

this shallow superficial worship.

The shallow songs that have come our way through the contemporary Christian communities the

shallow preaching that's more or less just a topical sermon over super

and now there's this hunger

to meet Theologically and so these people have been connected

through media through the internet in many ways through the preaching of men like Paul Washer

and John Piper and Various other individuals who have been writing extensively on these things

these doctrines and so now they're they're starting to Connect well with it.

They're looking not just to opinions but they're opening their Bibles and they're seeing these very things

that have been silenced for so long in the pulpit and

So there's this explosion.

So This book that's coming out.

I really took it on as a project as the editor I did contribute in the first chapter.

But you have Conrad and Bayway Tim Chalies Paul Washer Stephen Lawson and

myself who are writing on these various subjects addressing the New

Calvinism movement and were Compliment complimented

but at the very same time we felt the need to critique it

need to be critiqued.

For instance when it comes to the New Calvinism movement, you see a lot of people hit in

the doctrines of grace Studying theology, but many of these

people not the leaders per se.

But many of these people, you know that the young restless reformed if you want to use that that category that title.

They might sit in at a coffee shop on the Lord's Day and listen to some sermon on

YouTube rather than being very much connected to a local and tangible

visible New Testament sure sizing their gifts within the

context of a community of brothers and sisters who have been saved by Jesus Christ

baptized and are working together to further the mission of Christ and so again.

You have that disconnect and you have some some Christian Liberty issues where people are you might

say more interested in their News or the way they dress or whatever,

you know, it might be rather than the depth of the doctrines themselves

so amen to this resurgence because in many ways as Stephen

Lawson has pointed out The Reformation has always been about the young restless and reforms I mean

if you have a college movement at the Whitehorse Inn with William Tyndale these others who are

reading Luther's works I mean look, it's always been coming as a result of these these

young people who are zealous for theology.

But one of the passions we have is this we don't want people to be Attracted to

this movement because of the peripheral issues because of the the dress the

edgy style.

The tattoos or anything like that that you see that's oftentimes being used by this group

to

pragmatism in many ways.

Amen to the rest.

Make sure that the ebb and flow of this new Calvinism movement is Actually a movement that's

driven by the depth of theology and the Spirit of God rather than the the

attraction to these peripheral sometimes edgy things and

so.

That's what the book entails.

It's published by Christian Focus.

It's right now as we speak being printed and it's going to be available Early in

2018 at the g3 conference and so again if you come to the conference I believe you'll be able to get

your hands on a copy of the book.

Yeah, I would like to obviously at some point dedicate a full two -hour program to this because it is an

important subject and One of the

things that I had spoken about With Tom Askew

who has been a guest speaker at the g3 conferences.

We were discussing this very subject quite a while ago and one of the positive things that he

brought up was a resurgence among the New Calvinists of

Complementary in Gender roles in the church and in the home apparently according to Tom.

Although there might be a lot of modern things that make.

Older.

Traditional Calvinists uncomfortable with this movement.

The thing that's refreshing is according to Tom.

Anyway, I don't know if it's your experience is that there seems to be perhaps a much stronger Emphasis on male

headship than there has been in quite some time, especially from a new movement.

That is absolutely true.

And I do believe that to be the case and and I.

Again, that's one of the things in the book from the very beginning in the opening pages that I touch on.

And I want to say amen to that.

We are very grateful for this Carianism that we see

in the New Calvinism movement and.

The thing that I have been involved in.

Pretty much as long as I have been a Christian.

Is.

Interaction with my friends and brothers in Christ who are from the

independent fundamentalist Baptist background that we were talking about earlier with Because the fact that one of our listeners

came out of that movement but I think that there is a lot of

Very biblically faithful Material and and

godly wonderful men in that movement.

I don't think that we should be throwing out the baby with the bathwater with independent fundamentalist Baptist and others in that

ilk.

Obviously, there are some that are really Majoring on the minors

and are very harsh and nasty and and so on.

I'm not speaking about them.

It's a wide movement as you know being from the south and being from the having the church background that you have

but one of the things that I try to do is I try to

Evangelize them for lack of a better term, even though I believe that they're saved men.

I try to bring to them the doctrines of sovereign grace, which many of them despise not all of them,

but many of them do and Some of the some of the things that are hurdles for them to

overcome are things that are occurring in the Young restless and reform movements.

They have a very hard time with Christian rap being brought into the church and all kinds of things like that.

And the piercings and the tattoos as you were just mentioning.

How do you respond to that kind of thing?

Well, first of all, I would just simply ask name one church that's actually using Christian hip -hop on Sunday mornings,

right?

So again, you know you may or may not agree that that type or that genre of music

has any Redeemable value at all.

That's a conversation worth having but to suggest that it's being brought per se into the

church I don't know of any church and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know if any church is actually using

hip -hop.

You know and replacing like a mighty

fortress is our God for instance with you know Some type of song from Trip Lee or

Lecrae.

I just don't know if any church is doing that.

So you're saying as I have said.

Even the rap movement or the hip -hop movement is a wide spectrum and when it was boiled down to its

essence it's really just poetry and the where you depart from.

A A.

Biblically faithful method of communicating a biblical truth.

Is when you have the the sinful elements of the hip -hop culture attached to

a Christian hip -hop artists?

Persona and spray stage presence and music like for instance the arrogance and pride

the misogyny the the the wealth.

The the what's the word I'm looking for the the greed or the flaunting of wealth and that kind of

thing which Some Christian hip -hop artists might actually

continue to wear the baggage if you will of some of the The world's most evil hip

-hop artists.

So I think that's where the main thing that is a problematic issue with me and I agree with

you.

That it's if there's a big difference between something that is being used As an outdoor

means of evangelism or entertainment and something that's being used for a worship service.

Well, we are out of time now Brother Josh, and I want to make sure once again that our listeners have the g3

conference website.

It's g3 conference comm.

G3 conference comm if you want to register.

Please make sure you use the iron sharpens iron Code to get the forty forty five dollar

discount.

It's iron sharpens iron all in one word all lowercase except for the two eyes

in the two irons and the one s and the sharpens and the

website for Praise Mill Baptist Church.

For those of you living in the Douglasville, Georgia area or intending to visit there is praise mill comm that's

pray ys mill .com and of course the blog that

Pastor Josh runs is delivered by grace calm delivered by grace calm any of further information you care to

give.

And I want all of you to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far

greater Savior Than you are a sinner.