September 12, 2023 Show with Patti Height on “Confronting & Refuting the Lie that Homosexuality Is a Permanent Fixture in the Heart & Mind”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson,

19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports

legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning

issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the

listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 12th day of

September, 2023.

I am so excited that already we're only a few days away from

the Future of Christendom Conference in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, more

specifically at the Spooky Nook Sports and Events in Mannheim, Pennsylvania.

And this is a three -day conference featuring keynote speaker, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and

Omega Ministries, a part of this conference, which is Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, September 15th,

16th, and 17th, a part of this conference, which will be on Saturday, September 16th, will be a debate

that Dr. James R. White will be conducting with Dr. Gregory Coles.

And the theme of this debate is, Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable

Identity for a Member of Christ's Church?

Dr. Gregory Coles, who will be Dr. James R. White's opponent in this debate, identifies himself

as a gay Christian, and so that is why the theme is worded in that way.

And if you have not yet registered for this three -day conference, including the debate, please go to

futureofchristendom .org, futureofchristendom .org, to find out all the

details you need to know and also to register.

And I hope to see as many of you in my listening audience as possible there in attendance.

And please greet me at the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor's booth.

But today we have a program, an interview, that I think is a perfect venue to promote

that debate that I just mentioned.

I am so thrilled that I have for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Patti Height, who was

rescued by the mercy and grace of God from her enslavement to same -sex attraction, gender

confusion, and a lesbian lifestyle, made a new creation in Christ Jesus, and founded

Out of Egypt Ministries, and she's also a speaker at an upcoming event at Tree of Life Church in

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Today Patti is going to be addressing confronting and refuting the lie that homosexuality is a

permanent fixture in the heart and mind, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time

ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Patti Height.

Thank you so much, Chris, for having me.

I'm humbly excited to spend a little bit of time with you and with Pastor

Eric, and we'll see how the Lord leads and directs our conversation to bring him glory,

to edify the Church, and to bring truth to those who maybe are not walking in truth, because

it's the truth that sets us free.

Amen.

And before I introduce Pastor Eric Mosman of Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, why don't you tell

our listeners about Out of Egypt Ministries.

Out of Egypt Ministries is a ministry that the Lord raised up a little over 10 years ago,

maybe even 11 years ago, when the Lord asked me to step out in faith,

to go to any church or school or college or youth group or

youth camps that would have me that want to learn more about the LGBT

people so that they can minister to those in their community, those in their homes, those in

their workplaces, because we as a church, I think, need to have a better

understanding of people that we minister to so we can meet them right where they are in both grace and

truth, and that's what the Lord has called Out of Egypt Ministries to do.

Yeah, one of the things that I loved hearing from you before the program was that you are there

to equip the local church in how to best and most

effectively reach out to those entrapped by the sin of homosexuality, am I right?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

And if anybody wants more details, we'll be repeating this later on, but if you want more details on Out of

Egypt Ministries, go to outofegyptministries .org,

outofegyptministries .org.

Now I'd like to introduce someone who's also on the program for the very first time, Eric

Mosman.

Eric Mosman is the pastor of Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, not far from where

I'm sitting right now, and this church is also going to be hosting an event

in October featuring guest speaker Patty Height.

In fact, it will be the two days after my next Iron Trap and Zion radio Free

Pastors Luncheon, which is going to be held on October 5th, and Patty will be speaking at Tree of

Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania on the 6th and 7th,

Friday and Saturday of October.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you also to Iron Trap and Zion for the very first time, Pastor Eric Mosman.

It's a joy to join you and be with Patty in your program.

If you could briefly describe for our listeners Tree of Life Church of Carlisle.

It was founded in the late 90s, and I started pastoring it right

whenever COVID started, so I had a trial by fire entering into it.

I have seen God's grace and mercy help shepherd us through this time, and I'm grateful for the

opportunity to bring Patty and her ministry here to Tree of Life.

Her aim is our purpose in equipping the Saints

with conversations around a very confusing time when it comes to gender identity and sexual

inclusion, and so our aim of having Patty be a part of this ministry here, I'm

coming to equip those who come to have an open forum, an opportunity to dialogue through and have

difficulty receiving tools and help and encouragement in addressing their family

situations in the lives of so many people who are walking through the cultural

confusion of our time, to give them the tools and opportunity to have these conversations

and to know what to avoid, what pitfalls to avoid, and how to navigate

very difficult conversations.

Well if anybody wants more details about the Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, go to

tlccarlisle .church,

tlccarlisle .church, and I'm assuming you can

get all the details that you need to attend Patty Heitz's speaking

engagements there on Friday and Saturday, October 6th and 7th here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Well Patty, please if you could provide for our listeners your story going

back to your youngest age where you can actually remember

consciously wondering about your gender and so on.

I heard or saw and heard a YouTube video of your remarkable

testimony, and if you could please start with that.

Yes, yes.

Well, my first memories that I can truly

consciously have and take a hold of and say that that was truly a memory

was probably around five or six years old, probably more like five.

And what I consciously remember is that I thought I was a

boy.

I was born and raised in western New York, just southwest

of Buffalo.

So I guess my first trauma was being a Buffalo Bills fan.

I have to say that if anybody listening watched the game last night for Monday Night

Football, goodness gracious, you know my difficulties.

But in all seriousness, I didn't think I was any different than

the other boys that were in my neighborhood.

We all played together.

And so I walked the same, I talked the same, I moved the same.

I was very athletically blessed.

And so as I was out playing in the neighborhood, as you did back then, I'll be 57 years old

tomorrow.

So, you know, times were very different then.

There weren't play dates.

You played with neighborhood kids.

I fit in just like the other boys.

And so when I started hearing how language

was being brought to me different than it was to them in the sense that my best friend Johnny was addressed as

he or him or brother or son, I was being addressed as she, her daughter

and girl.

And that was before preferred pronouns, all of that.

But within myself, I still recognized that there was a difference in our

identifiers, even though on the inside, I didn't feel any different than Johnny and

Brian and Billy, our little neighborhood crew.

And so when I started expressing this to my parents, in particular, my mother,

she became very concerned.

And at eight years old, she brought me to our family doctor and said, my daughter thinks she's a boy.

What should we do?

And as per her referring to this story, she said, the doctor said, don't worry about

it.

She'll make a fine wife someday.

She'll grow out of this and she'll be fine.

What we know now is statistically that's actually accurate.

Most children who have gender confusion, if there's no affirmation

or no bullying from anyone and they just make their way through

puberty on the other side of puberty, statistically, it's the high 80s or even into the 90

percent of those children no longer have that same type of gender confusion.

However, that wasn't my story.

I continued in gender confusion, which eventually became gender

dysphoria.

And then as I got a little older and that puberty did start kicking in, that's when I realized I was attracted to

girls the same way the boys were.

So that was all very confusing for me.

There wasn't anyone for me to talk to back then concerning these issues.

So I just buried all of that deep inside.

When I hit high school, I tried to present myself in a more feminine manner, but I was

still being made fun of.

So having long hair didn't make a difference.

I was still being called derogatory names and such.

And so it was very, very difficult.

That in itself was difficult.

But there was other situations in my life that caused deep

wounds within my heart and my soul.

And that was just the communication that I saw

between my parents in the home.

And this isn't me blaming my parents or throwing them under the bus.

It's just what I experienced.

And it plays a part in my testimony.

But I saw my father consistently berate and degrade my mother with

names and just calling her useless and worthless and

stupid.

And so I heard that every day.

And in my little child mind, my choice was either to believe my

dad with his words, and that would make my mother stupid and worthless and crazy

or not believe my dad.

But that would make him really mean and a liar.

So what my brain chose to receive and then my heart received was that my

my mom was those things that he identified her as.

And so I detached from my mom and just grew more in wanting to identify as

a boy because that brought strength.

And these boys growing into men seemed to have more have

a stronger character and more protection and better jobs and more

fun jobs.

And so that's what I wanted.

And during that time, I was also experiencing sexual abuse.

And so, again, with my mind trying to figure out what was happening and how to make sense of all this,

the way my thoughts received it was that only little girls get sexually

molested, not little boys.

So if I could just somehow physically become this boy that I already feel like in my heart and my

mind, maybe the sexual abuse would stop.

But obviously, that's not what happened.

And so I just, again, buried all of that.

I tried, like I said, conforming to what I believe my family in the world wanted of me as

a girl.

So at 19 years old, I got married.

That was a failed marriage.

And then after that, I fully came out and started identifying and presenting.

Not really identifying, but I started presenting in the masculine, but identifying as

gay.

And that's when I actually felt relief and freedom for the first time.

I felt relief identifying in the masculine because I felt like

that if men saw me as a man, they would not

try to ever hurt me again.

So I presented in the masculine.

My armor was my male persona, my male clothing, my underclothing, my

outer clothing.

Everything that I bought was from the men's department.

So that was my suit of armor.

That was my protection because I wasn't raised in a Christian home and I didn't know anything about

the Lord.

I certainly didn't know anything about Ephesians chapter six, where I could wear the armor of God

instead of creating my own armor.

For those of you who might not know what I'm talking about in Ephesians chapter six, it's where

to stand strong in the Lord and stand in these days of evil that we're in

and have the helmet of salvation and the breastplate of righteousness and hold up the shield

of faith and wear the belt of truth and carry around walking in the shoes of peace.

And of course, have the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God in our hearts and minds at all time.

But I didn't know anything about that.

So I created my own armor.

I didn't know anything about God.

So I created my own God.

I believed in reincarnation.

I believed in mother nature.

I believed maybe UFOs carried aliens that were God -like somehow.

I wasn't an atheist.

I knew there was someone or something bigger and better and higher and stronger than me.

I just didn't know who that God was.

And I certainly didn't look into the God of Christianity because the only thing I knew about

that God was from the signs that I would see being held up at gay pride parades that would say things

like, God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, or homos will burn in hell or

God hates fags.

And so I pulled as far away from that God as I could,

but always seeking to find some type of spirituality.

And so God knew that was enough for the Lord.

He knew that in that seeking, it was truly him that I was seeking.

And so he came and made himself very known to me through two

very difficult circumstances, I believe, led me to really come to see who the

Lord was.

And that was through 9 -11, which we just, I don't want to use the word

celebrated, but we just acknowledged again yesterday, I was a flight attendant for a

major airline based out of Newark, New Jersey, and so was my girlfriend at the time.

And so we both had 9 -11 off.

And so we watched this devastation take place from our home.

Our house was 17 miles as a crow flies from the towers.

We didn't know if we knew any friends working those flights that day.

Our families couldn't get ahold of us.

They didn't know if we were working the flights that day.

And so it was very, very devastating.

It was very, very hard to get back on an airplane and work those flights again, not knowing if something like

this was going to happen on our flights.

And then just a couple of months after that, my only brother, Larry, was diagnosed with.

Lung cancer.

And so I would go, you know, I'd be in Newark, New Jersey, working

flights, not knowing if I was going to literally die that day.

And then on my days off, I would drive to Janestown, New York, and spend time with my brother and help

him, not knowing if he was going to die from the cancer.

And so death was becoming more and more real to me.

And in the process of visiting my brother, he told me one

time I came, and he's like, Patty, sit down.

I have something to tell you.

It's so exciting.

And I was like, are you in remission?

Are you going to make it through this?

He's like, no, no, no, not that.

He's like, Bruce, Bruce Nordwall, the guy across the street, has been bringing his Bible over and

reading these things called the Gospels to me.

And they talk about Jesus.

And Patty, I believe in Jesus now.

And his face just lit up, man, when I tell you, we come from a long line of

unbelievers.

And so I was so excited because I saw his excitement.

But at the same time, there was a little fear in my heart wondering if he was now going to tell me that I was going to go

to hell because I was gay.

But he didn't.

He had a conversation with Bruce and asked Bruce, you know, Larry asked me, Patty,

do you believe in God?

Do you and your girlfriend believe in God?

And I said, yes, absolutely, of course, you know, because I had made up my own.

So I answered yes.

And so Larry brought that to Bruce and said, Bruce, my sister and her girlfriend say they

believe in God.

Are they going to go to heaven?

And Bruce told my brother, he's like, Larry, there's a couple of things.

He's like, if Patty and her girlfriend truly believe in Jesus Christ, then they have the Holy

Spirit dwelling inside of them.

And the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, of righteousness and of of justice.

And the Holy Spirit will convict them of the sin that they're in.

And they'll lay that down before the Lord and walk with him instead of walking with each other.

Amos 3 3 says, can two walk together unless they are agreed?

And so he's like, there's that he's like, but if they don't believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and

Savior, then they won't be going to heaven.

But it has nothing to do, so to speak, of their homosexuality.

It has to do with the fact that they don't believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

As John the Baptist was was declaring Jesus as he was walking on the scene, as

Jesus was coming to be baptized, he says, behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

And Jesus does take away our sin as as a whole, the sin of unbelief.

And then every single sin that we've ever committed in our life, past, present and future.

Jesus died for on that that cross for our salvation.

And so now that I added a lot to that, but but it was a basic, simple conversation between

Bruce and Larry.

And my brother told me that.

And that was the first time there was ever a seed planted in my heart that said, wait.

God could love me if I just simply believe in him.

But that's as far as it went.

And then shortly after that, my brother, as I was holding his hand in the hospital, he

passed away.

My brother died right in front of me.

And that changed everything.

And so.

So one morning shortly after that, I woke up, I rolled over and I looked at my girlfriend and I just said.

Do you ever think the way we're living is wrong?

Wow.

I couldn't believe those words came out of my mouth like like, you know, you want to take them back as soon as you

say them, especially when she looked at me with the biggest eyes I'd ever seen her have in our

long relationship that we had with each other.

And she responded with this.

And it's still this is my story.

It still blows my mind.

She said, I can't believe you just asked me that.

I was literally just getting ready to ask you the same thing.

Wow.

That is who our God is.

That is who God and the Holy Spirit is.

And he came and he met us right in the midst of our sin.

And so we were very moved by that.

And we just got on our knees right in our bedroom and said, God, if you're real, will you show us?

And if the way we're living is wrong, show us.

And so I'm like, hey, I think I think we need a Bible because my brother said that that was pretty important.

So we run up into our attic and we're fishing through boxes and we find one and we come downstairs with this Bible in our

hand, not knowing what to do with it or just flipping through pages and pages and pages.

And finally, I'm like, this is ridiculous.

I point my hand in the Bible and I said, let's just see what it says right here.

And as God would have it, that happened to be Leviticus 18, 22, which says,

and you shall not lie with a male as with a woman.

It is an abomination.

That's remarkable.

Yes.

So obviously, obviously, we don't encourage people to do their Bible study that way.

But God just in his providence happened to do that in that case.

Yes.

Now, wasn't that ironically, please, folks, don't think for a second that I am condoning the

Westboro Baptist Church and their hellish behavior, their

mockery of people who are in their sin, particularly homosexuals, with

zero compassion to want to see them come to Christ.

But isn't that the verse that the Westboro Baptist Church folks

were putting on their signs that you saw?

Yes, it is.

And I'm glad you said that, Chris, because that's the difference of First Corinthians 13, verse one.

And first, first Corinthians 13, verse eight, the first Corinthians 13, one says

that that even though we speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but

have not love, we become a sounding brass and a clanging cymbal.

And then we typically call First Corinthians 13, the love chapter and see, we see what love is and what love isn't.

And then when we get to verse eight of that chapter, it says love never fails.

And so I believe when we come to people with God's word, if we come

humbly and full of grace, and if they're the spirit of God is telling us that they're

ready to receive that particular verse because he's already been working on their heart,

then I believe we can bring God's word to people with both grace and truth.

Because First Corinthians 13 also says, I believe it's verse six that says love does

not rejoice in iniquity, but it rejoices in the truth.

So so love is truth.

But so there you had an example, just like with Joseph and his brothers

who sold him into slavery.

You have an example of in regard to the God hates fags,

folks, what you meant for evil, God meant for good.

And that verse burned in your memory that you saw in the Bible when you pointed

at it.

And people might be wondering, well, how could holding up a biblical text

be meant for evil?

Well, it's because, as I said before, the Westboro Baptist Church cult has

no desire to see homosexuals come to Christ.

They are just there to publicly taunt them and to mock them and laugh

and rejoice in their being hell bound.

They have no desire to win them to Christ.

So that's why I described it as intending it for evil, because people do

use the scriptures in evil ways.

Yes.

And we know that that's not why God has given us his his holy word.

Amen.

Well, let's pick up where you left off, because we have to go to our first commercial break.

And all right.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Patty Height, our email address is chrisarenson at

gmail dot com.

Chrisarenson at gmail dot com.

As always, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private

matter.

Perhaps you share some of the same background as our guest, Patty.

Perhaps you're struggling with same sex attraction.

Whatever the issue is that would compel you to remain anonymous, we would be more than happy to honor your request.

But if it's a general question, please give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back with Patty Height and Pastor Eric Mosman right after these messages from our sponsors.

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We're now back with our guest, Patty Height, a former lesbian and founder of Out of

Egypt Ministries and speaker at an upcoming event at Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania,

October 6th and 7th.

That's a Friday and Saturday and we also have with us, serving as a co -host,

the pastor of Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Eric Mosman and we

are discussing Patty Height's testimony and also the theme, Confronting and Refuting the Lie that

Homosexuality is a Permanent Fixture in the Heart and Mind.

If you have a question, go to chrisorensen at gmail .com, chrisorensen at gmail .com and give us your first name at

least, city and state and country of residence unless your question is personal and private and before the break,

Patty, as you may recall, we had reached the point in your testimony where you and your girlfriend at the time,

after really being convicted that the way you were living was ungodly, you got down on your knees and

began to pray and why don't you pick up from where you left off there?

Yeah, praise the Lord for conviction.

So as I said, we grabbed a Bible, the Lord through His sovereignty

led us to Leviticus 18 .22 which says, And you shall not lie with a male as with a woman.

It is an abomination.

And before I go on, I just want to pause for a second and say that that scripture says

it is an abomination, not they are an abomination.

The Lord in His Word is talking about the behavior, that it is sinful and it

is not right according to God's Word, according to creation, it is not natural.

And not only that verse, but the other verses in the Bible that talk about homosexual

sexual behavior, it only talks about it in a behavioral way,

never in an identity.

Nowhere in the Bible does it call homosexuality an identity, only a sexual behavior.

And it always describes it as sinful.

So we saw that verse.

We were very moved by that.

But neither one of us being raised in the church didn't really know what to do with that.

So after about a week, I was like, that's only talking about men.

I wonder if the Bible says anything about women being together.

So we asked a friend at work if there was any that was a Christian, if she knew about

anything in the Bible talking about women being together intimately and sexually as being

sinful.

And she told us to read Romans chapter one.

And we did because we were seeking.

So when we got to Romans chapter one, verse twenty six and twenty seven, this is what we read.

For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions for even their women

exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

Likewise, also the men.

So that word likewise is is a continuation of this thought that we see this

truth that we see in verse twenty six.

Likewise, also the men leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust for one another.

Men with men committing what is shameful and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error, which

was due.

So at that point, we knew we had to find a church, which was very scary for us.

But but that's that's it was burning in our hearts to find a church.

And so we found one in in Old Bridge, New Jersey, Calvary Chapel, Old Bridge, New

Jersey.

Pastor Lloyd Pulley was the pastor.

Then he is the pastor now.

And we we walked in and we felt welcome.

We didn't either people were really welcoming us or the Lord was shielding us

from any strange looks or anything like that.

But we walked in like anyone else.

And we looked like a gay couple, like a lesbian couple.

And so we sat down in the back in the center section.

I'm just kidding.

Like the bleachers, Yankee Stadium or something.

But yeah, so I saw what I didn't know then was what we would in our

Christian ease describe as a worship team.

I saw this band up on stage with all kinds of instruments and microphones and

pianos and drums and guitars everywhere.

And I'm like, what in the world is this?

Because I've never heard worship music before in my life.

I heard Christmas music at Christmas and I heard Easter music at Easter on the radio.

And that was about it.

So when the worship started and I saw the words to the songs on the screens

and these words were talking about the holiness and the righteousness and the power of God,

I had never heard God described that way before.

But what really got me is when the song started talking about how much he loved me.

When I saw that, I started weeping, like weeping.

And I didn't cry.

I did not cry because that indicated weakness and weakness, indicated vulnerability.

And the vulnerability to me indicated fear, fear.

So so I just I was letting it out.

I was weeping and crying.

And then I started arguing with God, saying, there's no way you could love me like these songs

say.

I'm dirty.

I'm filthy from the things that have happened to me.

I'm dirty from the things that that I've done.

I don't even know who I am in my gender.

And I'm gay.

My girlfriend is sitting right next to me.

There's no way, God, you could love me.

And when I tell you he was he was just he was washing me with the

truth that he loved me.

And that changed everything in my heart.

I came into agreement with what he said.

And then as as Calvary Chapel at that time did, Pastor Lloyd

gave an invitation to pray and just come before the

Lord in repentance and and come into the knowledge of truly

receiving him.

As John chapter one says that those who receive believe and receive Jesus to them,

they have the right to now become to be called children of God.

And so I didn't understand that.

I left that day not understanding, but knowing that I left different

than I did when I came in.

I went there the next Sunday.

The same thing happened, the worship music, weeping and crying, hearing the word of truth as

Lloyd was teaching through the word, verse by verse.

And then that struggle at the end of like, like, can I really believe in this this

God and can he really love me?

And then the following week, I I went and I stood before the

Lord.

I stood before the congregation and I cried out and asked God the father to forgive me of my sins, for

Jesus to be my my Lord and my savior and to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

And in that moment, as we know, everything changed.

I went from darkness to light, from deception to truth, truth that God loved me and that truth set me free.

So immediately.

I was, I believe, delivered from my 24 year addiction to drugs and alcohol, never to touch it

again after that day.

And praise the Lord.

You understand that, my brother?

Yes.

And I I instantly laid down and was delivered from my own

false identity and delivered into the true identity of who I was created to be in Christ Jesus

and and now identified in Christ and with Christ instead of

identifying as anything outside of that.

So I brought all of me to all of him and

left with him dwelling in me only.

And what's really beautiful about that is that my girlfriend at the time did the same thing.

So we walked into church as lovers and girlfriends and we left as

sisters in Christ, never to be with each other again in any way, shape or form in

that ungodly identity.

And when we got home, it wasn't like, oh, my goodness, I'm going to miss you as my girlfriend.

What do we do?

This is this is horrible.

We were so excited when we got home because we owned a home together.

We were like, this is awesome.

God is real.

He loves us.

I moved in almost immediately into the spare bedroom and then just started

devouring the word of God.

I knew the word of God was was where I was going to find the

truth of who he was.

And so I got saved in January, read through the whole Bible by June, read through the New Testament again

by the end of the year.

And I've been devouring God's word ever since.

You know, it says in in Jeremiah 15, 16, it says your words were found and I ate them and your

word was to me the joy and rejoicing of my heart for I'm called by your name, O Lord, God of hosts.

And so, yeah, oh, goodness, his word is Psalm 107.

I don't know which verse says that he sent his word and healed them and

delivered them from all of their destructions.

And that's exactly what he did for both myself and my girlfriend at the time.

And she's still walking with the Lord.

She's a missionary to.

Yeah, she she I can't say much about it, but she has she

does missions work in other countries that where if she gets caught

with what she does, there's a chance she might not come home.

Wow.

And so that's what happens when when you really come and meet the Lord for who he is.

Everything changes.

And so that's why I no longer carry any type of my old identity.

There is no there is no side B, gay Christian for for Patty Height.

There's not even ex -gay Christian for Patty Height, because that would mean that I was

actually gay.

And I don't believe God creates anybody homosexually.

I don't believe there is a homosexual orientation.

I believe that we're created, as Genesis chapter one says, he created them in his own image, male and female.

He created them and said, be fruitful and multiplying anything outside of that in behavior or identity

is, I believe, to be sinful.

Amen.

And so I am not an ex -gay Christian.

I am someone who was once dead that is now alive.

I am someone that was living and walking in my sin that is now forgiven of that sin.

And I have less and less of a desire to sin, even though I do still sin.

I get convicted now when I sin.

And as soon as I recognize it, I bring it before the Lord in repentance.

And I am I am free from the shame of that.

So the freedom that I have in Christ Jesus now is is greater than the freedom

that I thought I once walked in when I when I said I had I had the freedom to identify as

gay or I had the freedom to present as masculine.

That wasn't freedom.

That was deception.

And the Lord delivered me from that deception into his marvelous light, into his truth.

And that truth has set me free.

Amen.

Amen.

Yes, I misspoke earlier when I called you a former lesbian.

You are actually just somebody who formerly lived in the lifestyle of a lesbian.

But homosexuality, as you seem to be pointing out here, is not a state of being.

It is it's not a category of a human.

It is a sinful desire and activity if it is brought to fruition.

But it is not like you can categorize somebody as a homosexual, like you could categorize somebody as an Italian

or a Spaniard or a Norwegian or an or an Englishman or so on.

It's it is a wicked desire that leads to physical activity,

which will eventually lead to hell if not repented of.

Am I stating that correctly, in your opinion?

Yes, if you're born in Italian, you die in Italian.

So that's that's pretty much it.

Before I go to our midway break and then when we

return, perhaps Pastor Eric has some questions and we already do have listeners waiting to

have their questions asked and answered.

But I wanted you to clarify something about your desires.

I remember seeing in the one of the videos I watched of you giving your testimony.

Somebody from the audience asked if you still were attracted to women.

And you said with a big rejoicing smile that you're attracted to women, but

not sexually.

You're attracted to women in a godly way that has nothing to do with sex.

And I was wondering how quickly that

that total departure of that

lust that you once had, when did that how long did it take for that

to occur?

And did it occur instantly?

I know that with different people, the repentance process is not identical,

especially when it comes to the thoughts and desires that we struggle with.

But how quickly did that just completely vanish?

And also for your at that time, girlfriend?

It's a little bit of an extensive answer.

Do we have time before the break?

It would probably be best if we took the break first and then had you give the answer then.

And so let me just remind our listeners, if you do have a question for Patty Height,

our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail dot com.

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail dot com.

As always, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

But if you're asking about a personal and private matter, like several of our listeners waiting

to have their questions asked and answered, or they're sending in their questions anonymously, you can do that, too.

But if it's a general question, just give us your first name, city and state and country of residence.

Don't go away.

By the way, folks, let me remind you, this is the longer the normal break.

So please be patient with us, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us

a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them to localize Iron Sharp and

Zion Radio geographically to Lake City, Florida.

And they do so with their own public service announcements and other local things that they air while we simultaneously air

our globally heard commercials.

So please use this time wisely, write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as

you can so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

Keep in mind, folks, Iron Sharp and Zion Radio cannot exist without the financial support of our

advertisers.

So please try to respond to them.

And when you cannot respond in any way that involves money, if you can afford to buy anything or use their

services, at least thank them for sponsoring the show.

And that should go a long way to keep our advertisers happy and convinced that they are not spending their money

in vain by advertising with us.

So please at least thank them and send in your questions to Patty Height, to Chris Orensen at Gmail dot com.

We'll be right back.

Don't go away.

The Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023, The

War. September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, featuring Dr. James

White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian,

A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity.

The debate topic is gay Christian, a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's church.

So come join us for the sixth Future of Christendom conference.

The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day Saturday

with an invitation to the Sunday morning worship service of the Independence Reform Bible Church.

This will be a weekend packed with practical teaching with a theme of the gospel at war in many areas of our culture, including

government schools, the Supreme Court, missions, feminism and even the church pulpits.

Head to future of Christendom dot org.

It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly, a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show

he really loves hearing interviewed, Dr. Joe Moorcraft.

I'm Joe Reilly, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener here in Otay in County Kildare, Ireland.

Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe

Moorcraft.

If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming,

Georgia, are largely to thank since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming is in Forsyth County, a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church, unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards.

And Dr. Joe Moorcraft is the author of an eight volume commentary on the larger catechism.

Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbytery, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets,

Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant

Reformation of the 16th century.

Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the reformers, scripture alone,

grace alone, faith alone, Christ alone and God's glory alone.

Their primary goal is the worship of the triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia, visit HeritagePresbyterianChurch

.com.

That's HeritagePresbyterianChurch .com or call 678 -954

-7831.

That's 678 -954 -7831.

If you visit, tell them Joe Reilly, an Iron Sharpens Iron radio listener from Atai in County Kildare, Ireland,

sent you.

I'm Brian McLaughlin, president of the Secure Comm Group and an enthusiastic supporter of Chris

Arnson's Iron Sharpens Iron radio program.

The Secure Comm Group provides the highest level of security, close -circuit television, access control

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In addition, we provide superior networking platforms.

We'll create, maintain and secure your local network, whether it's a Wi -Fi or hardwire network.

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I would love to have the honor and privilege of helping protect the lives and property of Iron Sharpens Iron

radio listeners and their associates.

For more details on how the Secure Comm Group may be of service to you with the very latest in security

innovations, call 718 -353 -3355.

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Or visit SecureCommGroup .com.

That's SecureCommGroup .com.

This is Brian McLaughlin of the Secure Comm Group, joining Chris Arnzen's family of advertisers to keep

Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the air.

When Iron Sharpens Iron radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

This is Darrell Bernard Harrison, co -host of the Just Thinking podcast, and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Tom Butt at First Baptist Church in Lindale, Texas, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Andrew Rapport, the founder and executive director at Striving for Eternity Ministries, and

the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Mark Romaldi, pastor of Sovereign Grace Church in Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Christopher Cookston, pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon,

and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Matt Tarr, pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep Iron Sharpens Iron radio on the.

Air.

Pastors, are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB, and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

Go to nasbible .com, that's nasbible .com to place your order.

Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

Do you know what they all have in common?

They all require training, assessments, and certifications.

But do you know what requires no training at all?

Becoming a parent.

My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s, and what I've discovered is that the majority of Christian parents have

never been biblically equipped to do the work of the ministry in their homes.

That's why Truth, Love, Parent exists.

We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.

We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of

dads and moms can use the scriptures to parent their children for life and godliness.

Please visit us at truthloveparent .com.

Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

coffee shops, and local hangouts, Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban, and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in

need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ

at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin, here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron

Sharpens Iron radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign Lord,

God, Savior, and King, Jesus Christ, today and always.

Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast, knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer

and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love, Hope

Reform Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York, pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher

McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God, like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church

in Coram, who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into

the unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim

Christ Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island, and

beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing

of being showered by their love, as I have.

For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

That's hopereformedli .net.

Or call 631 -696 -5711.

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York, that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on Iron Sharpens Iron.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past

or present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And don't forget, folks, please help solid -ground -books .com get pulled out of their

book sales slump that they are currently experiencing.

Keep in mind that they are a premier, a primary, a vital financial supporter of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,

and when they hurt financially, so do we.

So please go to solid -ground -books .com and make your largest purchase

ever if you can afford to do so.

And if you've never purchased books from solid -ground -books .com before, please do so today and mention Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

And please keep in mind, you're not only going to be doing solid -ground -books .com a favor by

purchasing books from them, and you're not only going to be doing Iron Sharpens Iron Radio a favor by keeping a very

important advertiser happy, you're going to be doing yourself and anyone for whom you are purchasing

books from solid -ground -books .com an enormous favor of incalculable value because

they bring back into print lost treasures from the past dating back to the 16th century Protestant

Reformation, and also publish for the first time new works, including such modern -day authors as Dr. James R. White

of Alpha Omega Ministries, nothing but the finest in Christian literature that has been written over the

last number of centuries.

So go to solid -ground -books .com and make sure you mention Chris Arnzen of Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio.

Before I return to Patty Height and Pastor Eric Mosman for our discussion today, I

just have a couple of very important announcements to make.

Folks, if you love this show and you don't want it to disappear, I'm just urging you please to go to ironsharpensironradio

.com, click support, then click click to donate now.

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card.

If you prefer advertising, if you want to advertise for your church, your parachurch

ministry, a special event you're having, well, send me an email to

chrisarnzen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

We are just as much urgently in need of your advertising dollars as we are in your

donations.

Always keep in mind, folks, that I never want anybody in our audience to give your

own church less money than you're ordinarily giving your church on the Lord's Day in order to

send us a financial gift.

Please never cut in to the funds that you have set aside for your own church for Lord's Day giving in

order to bless us.

Please do not do that.

Also, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, please wait until you're back on your feet and more

stable financially before you send us a gift.

The Bible is clear that we are to use our finances primarily to support our church and our family

and providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God.

But if you love the show and you don't want it to disappear and you do have extra money above and beyond your ability to

provide for church and family, you have extra money for benevolent, recreational or trivial purposes.

Please share some of that money with us if you really love the show and don't want it to disappear.

Go to ironsharpensionradio .com, click support, then click click to donate now.

And for those of you who prefer snail mail, there will also be a physical address that appears on your screen

where you can mail your checks made payable to Iron Sharpension Radio.

I also want to announce, especially due to our subject matter today, that on

Friday, October 13th, you should mark your calendars for my interview with

Rosaria Butterfield, who returns to Iron Sharpens Zion Radio to discuss her brand new book,

Five Lives of Our Anti -Christian Age.

So please mark your calendars and tune in to that on Friday, October 13th, 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern

Time.

Also, if you are a man in ministry leadership, Iron Sharpens Zion Radio is having our

next biannual free pastor's luncheon on Thursday, October 5th, 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

This is a church in Perry County, Pennsylvania, and not only will you have free admission

to this event if you're a man in ministry leadership, and not only will you be fed for free, and not only

will you be able to enjoy an opportunity for rest, relaxation, fun, and fellowship with

colleagues in ministry, some that you likely have never met, and some that perhaps are

old friends, and you can rekindle an old friendship, but on top of all of that, every person

attending will receive a heavy sack of free brand new books personally selected by me and donated

by Christian publishers all over the United States and United Kingdom.

So you can't beat that.

I hope you register, and you can do so by sending me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put Pastor's Luncheon in the subject line.

And last but not least, if you are not a member of a biblically faithful, Christ -honoring, theologically

sound, doctrinally solid church like Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, well, I

have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches, and I've helped many people in our audience all over the

planet Earth find churches, sometimes even within just a couple of minutes from where they live, and they didn't

even know they existed.

So if you're in that predicament, you do not have a biblically faithful church home, send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com

and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Patty Height, and we are talking about her testimony

of being rescued from her enslavement to same -sex attraction, gender confusion, and a

lesbian lifestyle, and her foundation of a ministry called Out of Egypt Ministries,

and her upcoming speaking engagement at Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, October 6th and 7th, which is a

Friday and Saturday.

Send in your questions to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and give us your first

name at least, city and state and country of residence, and only remain anonymous if your question is personal and private.

And before I go to any of those questions, and any question that Pastor Eric may have, pick up where

you left off if you could.

We were asking you about your

abandonment, or the parting from

your heart and mind of sexual attraction to women,

and you were about to explain exactly how that took place in your life.

Yes, so when I first came to

recognize Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and give him my life, I entered into what we might

call the honeymoon phase, where I don't think my feet, well actually I don't know if my

feet have even touched the ground since those days, because he's just that good, and it's just

that exciting to live in Christ with whom we live and move and have our being, but I thought

everything that was my life before January 19th, 2003 was done and

over, and I wouldn't have to worry about anything again after that, because God was real and he loved me,

and my life was so incredibly exciting in him.

Now until one weekend, I went to

continue playing in this women's flag football league that I was a part of, drove

there with the woman who was now my ex -girlfriend, and as we were driving home,

she's like, Patty, I have to tell you something, and I'm thinking, oh, what, you really liked that

end zone catch that I had at the end of the game?

It's like, yeah, no, that's not it.

I have to tell you that I recognized you were flirting with that girl from the other team, and I'm

like, what, are you kidding me?

And she's like, look, I'm telling you, I know you, nobody knows you as good as I do.

I know you were flirting with her, and I was so mad.

I'm like, how could you even say that?

We're saved.

There's nothing there anymore, and so I just kind of metaphorically with my hands

on my hips, I'm like, well, you know what?

When I get home, I'm going to pray and ask God to show me.

She's like, yeah, I think you should, and so I went home and I prayed, and I asked the Lord to show me if I was flirting,

and I in fact was.

The Lord showed me that I was, but the thing is, is he showed me in such a gentle way,

and as the Lord was ministering to my heart, he said that that was just

behavior that I'd had for years and years and years, and I didn't even recognize

that I was doing that, and to not worry, just to continue to come to him, and as he shows me

things, acknowledge the truth of what he's showing me, and lay it back down at his feet, and

he'll bring healing, and what now I actually kind of call that all these years later is reveal

and heal, and that's what the Lord does.

He reveals these things to us.

We recognize them to be true in whatever aspect they come, and then

we bring that back to him in prayer, and he releases us of that, or he brings healing

through that, and so after that day that he allowed me to see that that was there, I

don't have any recognition, or the Lord never brought that to me again in that sense

that I was continuing in that behavior, so I laid it before him and was released of that.

Now, there was a season where the Lord was addressing my gender.

That was very, very hard.

The gender was a lot more frightening for me to

fully come to a deep understanding of where it came from, what it was, and then surrender that fully.

Trust the Lord in it, and so I remember being saved a couple years, and the

Lord spoke to my heart and said, I want you to ask me what it is to be a woman, and I was like, oh

gosh, if I ask the Lord what it is to be a woman, he's going to show me, and my first thought was I'm going to

fail miserably at it because I have no idea what it is to be a woman, so it was based in fear,

but it's like, okay, if the Lord wants me to pray this, I'm going to pray it, because one beautiful thing that

he just really blessed me with was God gave me the desire to be obedient, the strength

to be obedient, and then when I was, he blessed me through that obedience, so I'm like, all right, I'm going to pray.

Laid flat in my face, I was already living out of the house with my ex and living in my own apartment, and I said,

God, you asked me to pray and asked what it is for you to show me what it is to be a woman, so here we go.

Lord, show me what it is to be a woman, and I couldn't say the word woman.

I was so afraid, and so I'm like, well, I can't say it, so I'm going to spell it.

Lord, will you show me what it is to be a w -o -m, and I just started

crying, and I'm like, oh, Lord, I don't know how to do this, and so I had made some

really close friendships with other women in the church, and when I couldn't pray it, I went to them and asked

them to pray that prayer for me, and so they did.

We were all weeping, and they came before the Lord with me there and said, Lord, you

know, Patty's desire is to fulfill that prayer and to actually have you fulfill that

prayer, and so they prayed in that moment for the Lord to show me what it was to be a woman, and they continued

praying that, I'm sure, for very many days, weeks, months, and years after that so that I can

now, these more than 20 years later, say, not only do I know what it is to be a woman,

I love being a woman.

I'm thriving in my femininity.

I'm not embarrassed by it.

I get to be a woman and feminine and love it

without having to be what I mistakenly thought was, you know, covered my head in a bonnet

and a dress from shoulders to toe and knowing how to, you know,

make a cake or a meal or whatever my misunderstanding was of what it was to be a woman.

I love who I am in Christ Jesus as a woman in my femininity,

and it's one of the most beautiful experiences I've had in my life.

So that was a very long answer, but someone needed to hear that.

So come to the Lord with all that you have in your sexual desires, in your sexual identity, in your

gender confusion, in your gender identity.

Trust the Lord with it and what he brings to you in his truth through the

power of his word and the person, the Godhead of the Holy Spirit, the Lord

will give you more than you could ever even ask or think because it'll be truth.

And again, I just have to say, it's the truth that sets us free.

Amen.

And the way you answered that audience member in the video

when the person asked you if you were still attracted to women and you said, yes, I am, but not sexually.

And you were with a big smile on your face.

This has really deepened the relationships you have with women and made them better than they

ever were because they are pure and there is no ulterior motive.

There's no sinful aspect of the attraction.

If you could just explain it a little bit more.

Well, amen and yes to that.

Women are awesome.

And I get to know women in their awesomeness now for the way

God has created them in all the beauty of what it is to be a woman.

And so the more I got to know women in a godly way and the more I was

touched by women like an arm around me or a hug or arms looped together,

the more I was in friendships with women and being touched with godly women the right way, the less of a

desire I had to be intimate with a woman in an

ungodly, in an unnatural way, because I knew the healthy, godly

way.

And because of that, me trying to find it through my own sinful way was

no longer a part of my life.

And so the desire is like completely absent, the same sex desire.

I would imagine, so I don't think about it.

So I don't really think, do I have same sex?

It hasn't crossed my mind in years.

So yes, I would say that that is gone.

Hallelujah.

And before I go to any listener question, Pastor Eric, do you have a question of your own?

Yes, I do.

I swapped out my microphone.

So hopefully it's working whenever I first came on.

It wasn't working.

Man, there's so many directions.

I'd love to take the conversation, but I think I will have some time with that.

But on the radio, pastorally, I'm going to ask a lot of accused of

not being welcoming to the homosexual community,

open to them or helpful to them.

One, do you believe that narrative?

Two, what would you say to pastors who want to be able to meet

the gospel, the gospel of freedom that you're sharing with that homosexual community?

What would you give pastors?

Yes, great question, Pastor Eric.

And you are cutting in and out a little bit still.

So, but I think I got the gist of your question.

Yes, I do believe in years past, the church does have

some harsh behavior.

Towards those who identify as LGBT plus, but I do believe now that

the church is becoming caring more in the sense of becoming better

equipped on how to minister to people, right where they are in their sexual and gender

identity.

Because it's, we can't stick our heads in the sand anymore.

It's one of the most prevalent things.

One of the most prevalent discussions in every aspect of our life in this country and

throughout most of the world.

And so I do believe the church

can be better equipped in what it is to bring both grace and truth to people

from people who don't have their Christ identity, people who

are still under Adam instead of in Christ, so to speak.

And so I believe, I missed

part of your question in that.

So I'm trying to understand what it was with only part of your words.

I do believe that one of the best ways to minister to people is to

speak that truth to them.

And that truth is going to be heard most likely in our church, in the actual

building of the church.

And so we have to be willing to invite those

who look different, act different and identify different into our church so that

they will hear the word of truth.

Because there's no truth left anywhere, at least in our country,

except in Christ Jesus and in the word of God.

It's not in our schools.

It's not in the medical field anymore.

It's not university.

It's not government.

Laws are changing.

So we're literally the only truth carriers anywhere.

And so we have to invite people from the LGBT community into our church so that they can hear the

truth and let the truth make that big impact on them.

So in the sense of we're not there to fix people.

We can't fix people.

We're not called to fix people.

We're called to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and to love our neighbor as ourself and

to preach the word in season and out of season so that if God perhaps will grant them

repentance, as it says in 2 Timothy chapter two, it says that we're to come with

humility and patience and correcting those who are in opposition if God perhaps will grant them repentance

so that they may know the truth and escape the snares of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do

his will.

So I believe we do that through patient evangelism, through the

truth of the word of God and speaking the word of God from the pulpit,

not cowering to, like using a pronoun hospitality or

preferred pronouns to build a bridge, but we are to speak the truth from the pulpit and

from our homes and from our offices and then trust God, do that with grace and humility

and trust that God, if he so chooses to grant that person repentance, will do it

as his word.

Amen.

And I know that you share my view, which is very obvious, painfully obvious,

that whereas the church might have years ago been

totally insensitive and devoid of compassion when

bringing the gospel to those enslaved by homosexuality.

Today, we have an opposite problem that is equally dangerous, where we have

professing Christians and pastors and denominations catering to

the wickedness of those who are homosexual by candy

coating the severity of the situation that they are in and

by giving a message that is devoid of the call to repentance,

that is devoid of the warning of wrath and any of that.

Recently, I saw a video of Rosaria Butterfield, who I mentioned earlier,

who was being interviewed promoting her new book.

She said something very profound, I believe she said, Your job is not to see sin

from the point of view of the center.

That empathy will not help people like the person I used to be, and it will kill you.

Your job is to stand outside all of the feelings and all of the muck and

throw a rope.

I thought that was very beautifully said.

I don't know if you share my opinion on that, but I really think that was a profound statement by her.

But going back to what I was saying, I know that you are adamantly opposed to the whole

side A, side B Christianity concept that has made

homosexuality more palatable to many people in the

evangelical church.

And if you could explain those errors and why you dismiss them.

Well, and yes, I love Rosaria Butterfield.

She is so beautifully eloquent with her words.

God has definitely gifted her.

And so I'm excited to listen to your interview with her, October 13.

I just simply, as simply as I can put it, I cannot bring

what I brought to the cross as part of my repentance.

I cannot pick any part of that back up with me and say, well, I

repent over this, but it's part of who I am.

So I'm going to carry it back with me and keep it in my pocket, keep it as an identifier and

live life in that identity, but not carry out its behavior.

In its simplicity, it just doesn't make sense to me.

If I were to carry any part of my gay identity with me after

I came to Christ, I guarantee I'd be back living that life again, because part of

the identity is part of

the draw into that community.

And when I was in the LGBT plus community, it was a really, at the time, it was a great community for

me to be in.

They were my family.

And for the most part, it was a beautiful place to be.

And so I wouldn't want to, in my identity,

just even outside of the sin of it, but it would be so

confusing for not only my friends that were still part of that community, but also for my church friends.

It was like, well, wait, who are you?

Are you with us as the LGBT community?

Or are you with those church folks over there that say it's sinful?

It would be, to me, it's sitting on the fence.

As it's coming to my heart right now, it's as Jesus tells us in the book of Revelation, you know, are you

hot or are you cold?

Because if you're lukewarm, you can't really have any part of me.

And to me, that just seems very lukewarm.

What I bring to the Lord and what the Lord has asked me to bring before him in my sin behavior and in my sin

identity, he gets it all because he's worthy, because he's holy and

he's worth it.

Who do I think I am that I would carry any part of my identity

that he calls the behavior of that identity to be sinful?

It just simply does not make sense to me.

We do have an anonymous listener who has a fairly lengthy question

and also comments.

And I think that it's so important.

I want to read the whole thing.

What would you suggest that I do with the situation of my daughter being

thousands of miles away living with somebody?

And I don't want to form a relationship with that person due to the

friendly atmosphere that would develop just what we talked about,

which would then lead me to getting too comfortable myself, let alone the

other woman.

I don't want them to think that I accept their life choices in any way.

And being a mom, I would tend to be vulnerable to mothering, and I fear being

unable to show my disdain to a greater degree.

And I need your assistance and counsel.

So I guess to decipher what she's saying here

is that she has a conflict, and maybe you understood the same thing that

I did by reading this, a conflict by, on the one hand,

wanting to make it clear to her daughter and her daughter's girlfriend

that she is not at all accepting their sin.

And she is in a dilemma about not being too cold and distant and

dismissive of even the existence of the other woman.

And I don't know if you heard the same thing in that long question

comment that I read, but perhaps you could just pick up where I left off there.

Yes, yes.

And sister, I want to thank you for writing in and asking your question, and thank you for being here.

Listening, and I hear your mama heart, and it matters.

And so please know that when we do end this interview, I will be taking

time to be praying over all the questions that came in, meaning the people who sent in the questions.

So I will be praying for you.

And if you go to my website, outofegentministries .org, there is a prayer

icon there that you can fill out that prayer icon with your situation first names only.

And I have a prayer team, quite a large number of women in North Carolina

that I think it's every other week they get together and they pray over all the prayer requests.

So you will not be walking through this alone.

But as I was hearing Chris bring forth the question, my first thought was,

if you're not friendly to her, who will be?

If you're not friendly to her, you have an inroad to this particular woman that

not just anybody out there that's a Christian does.

But in that, I believe you do need to pray and ask the Lord to show you

how much a part of her life, your girlfriend's or your daughter's girlfriend, how much a part of her life the Lord wants you

to be involved in, because what I often tell people, sometimes we remember

those quick little quips.

So what I'll tell people is, let who you are point to who he is.

Let who you are point to who he is.

So I would pray and ask the Lord if he would lead you into a

friendly relationship with your daughter's girlfriend, and if you would stand

strong and healthy in who you are in Christ, that just might be the only thing this

woman sees or this young lady sees as who Christ actually is, because it's through

kindness, the kindness of who God is that leads us to repentance.

So that's something that you privately have to pray about.

And the scripture that came to my heart as you were, as Chris

was reading this question is in Luke chapter 15.

We know this is the parable of the lost sheep, the lost coin and the lost son.

And every part of Luke 15 is in my Bible written in red, which

indicates it's the words of Jesus, except the first three verses.

And so verse one of Luke 15 says, then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew

near to Jesus to hear him.

So I have to pause and think on that.

Why would tax collectors and sinners draw near to Jesus to hear him?

Well, it's because Jesus drew near to them.

And so if we cross -reference Luke 15 one to Matthew nine,

nine through 13, it's when we see Jesus actually meeting Matthew, the tax collector.

So Matthew nine, verse nine says, and Jesus passed on from there and he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax office

and Jesus said to him,.

So Matthew arose and followed Jesus.

Now it happened as Jesus sat at the table in the house that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat

down with Jesus and his disciples.

So Jesus was calling Matthew to himself.

And in that Jesus went to Matthew's house with Matthew's friends, his sinners and

other tax collectors.

And not only did Jesus go, but he had his disciples come with him.

So Jesus didn't say to his disciples, look, these people are pretty big sinners, so you better stay

away and let me handle this one on my own.

Jesus was teaching his disciples how to, I believe, love people in their

sins so that when they see the goodness and the beauty of who Jesus is, they no longer stay

in that sin.

But back in Luke 15, verse two says, and the Pharisees and the scribes

complained, saying, this man, meaning Jesus, this man receives sinners and

eats with them.

So if we continue in our story back in Matthew nine, we continue in verse 11 and it says, when the

Pharisees saw it, meaning Jesus and his disciples being with these sinners, when the Pharisees

saw it, they said to his disciples, why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?

And when Jesus heard that, he said to them, those who are well have no need of a physician, but

those who are sick.

In verse 13, but go and learn what this means.

I desire mercy and not sacrifice for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners

to repentance.

And so I believe that, again, let who we are point to who he is.

And we might be the very person that points people to Jesus by being with them or

spending enough time with them to get to know them and then having that inroad to speak the truth of

who the Lord Jesus Christ is and the fullness of who he is with both grace and

truth.

And I'm assuming you would agree that we're loving it,

pouring love on someone, even someone who is involved in

overtly, scandalously wicked behavior, pouring love on

them does not require that we give any indication that we are condoning what they're

doing.

Am I right?

Loving someone in their sin isn't condoning their sin.

It's loving them in spite of their sin, which is exactly what Jesus did for us.

And I'm assuming you would believe that in this listener's case,

if she is going to demonstrate openly compassion and

love towards the girlfriend of the daughter that she.

When the timing is right, I'm not saying that you should delay doing this at all,

but I mean in a conversation and during certain circumstances and occasions,

you have to remember to eventually bring up the fact that the Lord is

not pleased with this behavior and the seriousness of it.

And somehow, I'm not saying that every word at a dinner table needs to be a word of condemnation or

something, but there needs to be times when you are making it

clear that God does not want them to continue with that way, just as you would if you had somebody

in your home that you knew was a drug addict or involved in.

And in my case, I was formerly a drunkard, as I shared with you before the show.

If I wasn't put under church discipline, I don't think I would be alive right now.

And that involved elders that cared more about my eternal life and my physical life

than my feelings.

And I thank God for them, and I thank God what they did by putting me under church discipline over a

decade ago, which led me to enter into a rehab facility.

But am I making sense here?

That some people just want to do what they would consider the loving part,

and they don't want to do the hard part because they want to spare the feelings of those that they are

seeking to love.

Am I making sense?

Yes, and not only spare the feelings of those they love, but spare the possibility of rejection by

sharing the truth in love.

And so, you know, I would pray the woman who wrote the question said, I

believe she said there was a concern because she loves her daughter so much that she did have a concern that she

might kind of cower to maybe the gay identity

instead of the truth of what the Bible says because of her love for her daughter.

So I get that.

That's why I said, ultimately, you need to pray and ask the Lord what to do in this situation.

But when we minister to someone and we speak truth to them, again, 1 Corinthians 13, I think it's verse six says, love

does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth.

If your daughter was raised in the church, meaning if you have been a Christian for a long time and your daughter

was raised in the church and she's gone on to live her own life in her own identity, your daughter knows

what the Bible says about homosexuality.

And your daughter would probably have told, may have told her girlfriend

that her parents or her mom is a fundamental evangelical

Christian and just hates the gay community or whatever.

So possibly speaking badly about you mom as a

Christian.

And then if her girlfriend meets you and sees how kind and generous and loving and gentle you

are, she might actually think, wait, I thought you said your mom was this, but I'm actually seeing her is

this.

And it might start to form questions in her heart.

Like, wow, Christians are nice and they are kind.

And now this, I'm just making this up as a possible situation.

But when we share the truth of who God is with someone, I say, start with Jesus,

not start with their sexual sin because a person's heart needs to change before their identity

will.

And our heart only changes in Christ Jesus.

Well, we have to go to our final break.

And when we come back, we will hear from Ted in Moundsville, Alabama.

And we will get as many other questioners in the program as we

possibly can.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

Debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian, A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual

Identity.

The debate topic, is gay Christian a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's church?

So come join us for the 6th Future of Christendom Conference.

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Welcome back.

We have Ted in Moundsville, Alabama, who says, Early in the interview,

you talked about identifiers, i .e. the way people are addressed.

In a similar vein, I am particularly vexed by the term sodomite being

applied to modern homosexuals.

The pushback I usually receive is that this is the biblical term, sometimes stressing

the, the pronounced thee, as if to assert that it is, in fact,

the only biblical term and therefore the only acceptable term.

But I would only agree that it is a biblical term

and then only in the King James Version and the NKJV.

And that is not particularly useful today because it has become associated with Christians who are

unnecessarily antagonistic towards those who are caught up in this sin.

What is your take on the use of this term?

And again, he's speaking of the term sodomite.

Thank you, Tim, for...

It's actually Ted, Ted.

Ted, Ted, for joining us with your question.

I, I don't hear that term used when I go to church.

I certainly don't use that term when I'm explaining things.

And I, I don't,

I don't think it would.

I do know that in the King James Version, we can see these words.

However, I think it's where both grace and truth come in,

as if you're hearing that word coming from a pulpit.

I would, I personally would go and have a conversation with the pastor and just ask the

pastor in a gentle way, why he is using that term.

Is he trying to express what the actual

physical action, sexual action is of those engaging in this type of sexual behavior?

Or is he trying to be a bee in a bonnet and get people

buzzed up and bit over, over this particular verse or verses in the

Bible?

I would, I guess in a nutshell, I'm saying I would talk to the pastor and ask to hear his heart on the

situation and then go from there.

One thing to add, my own two cents, but isn't it also

dangerous to use candy -coated terms that make a sin more

palatable?

Like, for instance, I was a drunkard.

I don't tell people I used to be a wine connoisseur.

Don't we have to be equally careful?

Because like, for instance, in the Greek, in the New Testament, I believe the term that Paul used was

male penetrator.

It wasn't intended to be a flowery compliment.

You know what I'm saying?

Don't we have to be somewhat careful not to go the other way?

Yes, I hear what you're saying.

But I'm curious if what Ted is talking about is

people using it to really pack a punch in what is

being said.

Because I don't think homosexual is a soft

term.

I still think the word homosexual or arsenicoidae and these different words that we see in the

Bible speak at the severity of the sin in and of

themselves.

So I don't believe it's lessening the sinfulness

by using homosexual.

Right.

Well, I want you in about two minutes time to please summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our

listeners today.

And I definitely know I want you back if you're able to and desirous of coming back, because I think there's a lot

more we could talk about with the side A, side B fallacy and so on.

But if you could just summarize what you want to say today.

I believe that we have an opportunity as Christians to really show the

heart of God, the compassion of God, and the truth of God by the way we speak and

act around those inside the church and outside the church and realize that by the grace

of God, there go I, Ephesians

chapter two says, and you he made alive who were dead in trespasses and sin and went in

which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the

spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience in verse three, among whom also

we all once conducted ourselves in the lust of our flesh, fulfilling the desire of the

flesh and the mind and were by nature, children of wrath, just as the others in

verse four, but God who is rich in mercy because of his great love, which was she loved us.

Even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ by grace, you've been saved.

And that continues on because I could read forever.

But I think what I want to leave everyone with is we have to remember that we were once dead in our

trespasses and sins.

And we are only made alive in Christ Jesus.

And it is God who calls us unto himself.

And so please look at people not as gay or straight

or this or that or the other.

It's either dead in our sins or alive in Christ.

And if we see people dead in their sins, we pray for them and we point them to the only one that can

bring them life.

And that is Christ Jesus.

And we do that with grace and truth.

Hallelujah.

Amen.

Well, I want to remind our listeners that for more details about Patty Height's ministry, go to out

of Egypt, ministries .org out of Egypt, ministries .org.

Don't forget about Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, that is hosting Patty's upcoming

conference in Carlisle, Pennsylvania on October 6th and the 7th, which is a Friday and

Saturday.

For more details, go to TLC, Carlisle Church, TLC, C -A

-R -L -I -S -L -E .church.

I want to thank you so much, Patty, for being such a superb guest.

I look forward to having you back in the program.

I want to thank you, too, Pastor Eric Mosman for acting as a co -host today.

I look forward to having you back on the program as well.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater savior

than you are a sinner.