September 12, 2023 Show with Patti Height on “Confronting & Refuting the Lie that Homosexuality Is a Permanent Fixture in the Heart & Mind”

The Future of Christendom Conference and Today’s Guest

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs, chapter 27, verse 17, tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth, who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 12th day of September, 2023.

I am so excited that already we're only a few days away from the Future of Christendom Conference in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, more specifically at the Spooky Nook Sports and Events in Mannheim, Pennsylvania.

And this is a three-day conference featuring keynote speaker, Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a part of this conference, which is Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, September 15th, 16th, and 17th, a part of this conference, which will be on Saturday, September 16th, will be a debate that Dr. James R. White will be conducting with Dr. Gregory Coles.

And the theme of this debate is, Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable Identity for a Member of Christ's Church? Dr. Gregory Coles, who will be Dr. James R. White's opponent in this debate, identifies himself as a gay Christian, and so that is why the theme is worded in that way.

And if you have not yet registered for this three-day conference, including the debate, please go to futureofchristendom .org, futureofchristendom .org, to find out all the details you need to know and also to register.

And I hope to see as many of you in my listening audience as possible there in attendance. And please greet me at the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor's booth. But today we have a program, an interview, that I think is a perfect venue to promote that debate that I just mentioned.

Patti Height’s Testimony and Out of Egypt Ministries

I am so thrilled that I have for the very first time on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Patti Height, who was rescued by the mercy and grace of God from her enslavement to same-sex attraction, gender confusion, and a lesbian lifestyle, made a new creation in Christ Jesus, and founded Out of Egypt Ministries, and she's also a speaker at an upcoming event at Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Today Patti is going to be addressing confronting and refuting the lie that homosexuality is a permanent fixture in the heart and mind, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Patti Height.

Thank you so much, Chris, for having me. I'm humbly excited to spend a little bit of time with you and with Pastor Eric, and we'll see how the Lord leads and directs our conversation to bring him glory, to edify the Church, and to bring truth to those who maybe are not walking in truth, because it's the truth that sets us free.

Amen.

And before I introduce Pastor Eric Mosman of Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, why don't you tell our listeners about Out of Egypt Ministries.

Out of Egypt Ministries is a ministry that the Lord raised up a little over 10 years ago, maybe even 11 years ago, when the Lord asked me to step out in faith, to go to any church or school or college or youth group or youth camps that would have me that want to learn more about the LGBT people so that they can minister to those in their community, those in their homes, those in their workplaces, because we as a church, I think, need to have a better understanding of people that we minister to so we can meet them right where they are in both grace and truth, and that's what the Lord has called Out of Egypt Ministries to do.

Yeah, one of the things that I loved hearing from you before the program was that you are there to equip the local church in how to best and most effectively reach out to those entrapped by the sin of homosexuality, am I right?

Yes, yes, absolutely.

And if anybody wants more details, we'll be repeating this later on, but if you want more details on Out of Egypt Ministries, go to outofegyptministries .org, outofegyptministries .org. Now I'd like to introduce someone who's also on the program for the very first time, Eric Mosman.

Eric Mosman is the pastor of Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, not far from where I'm sitting right now, and this church is also going to be hosting an event in October featuring guest speaker Patty Height.

In fact, it will be the two days after my next Iron Trap and Zion radio Free Pastors Luncheon, which is going to be held on October 5th, and Patty will be speaking at Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania on the 6th and 7th, Friday and Saturday of October.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you also to Iron Trap and Zion for the very first time, Pastor Eric Mosman.

It's a joy to join you and be with Patty in your program.

If you could briefly describe for our listeners Tree of Life Church of Carlisle.

It was founded in the late 90s, and I started pastoring it right whenever COVID started, so I had a trial by fire entering into it. I have seen God's grace and mercy help shepherd us through this time, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to bring Patty and her ministry here to Tree of Life.

Her aim is our purpose in equipping the Saints with conversations around a very confusing time when it comes to gender identity and sexual inclusion, and so our aim of having Patty be a part of this ministry here, I'm coming to equip those who come to have an open forum, an opportunity to dialogue through and have difficulty receiving tools and help and encouragement in addressing their family situations in the lives of so many people who are walking through the cultural confusion of our time, to give them the tools and opportunity to have these conversations and to know what to avoid, what pitfalls to avoid, and how to navigate very difficult conversations.

Well if anybody wants more details about the Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, go to tlccarlisle .church, tlccarlisle .church, and I'm assuming you can get all the details that you need to attend Patty Heitz's speaking engagements there on Friday and Saturday, October 6th and 7th here in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Childhood Gender Confusion, Sexual Abuse, and Early Spiritual Seeking

Well Patty, please if you could provide for our listeners your story going back to your youngest age where you can actually remember consciously wondering about your gender and so on. I heard or saw and heard a YouTube video of your remarkable testimony, and if you could please start with that.

Yes, yes. Well, my first memories that I can truly consciously have and take a hold of and say that that was truly a memory was probably around five or six years old, probably more like five. And what I consciously remember is that I thought I was a boy.

I was born and raised in western New York, just southwest of Buffalo. So I guess my first trauma was being a Buffalo Bills fan. I have to say that if anybody listening watched the game last night for Monday Night Football, goodness gracious, you know my difficulties.

But in all seriousness, I didn't think I was any different than the other boys that were in my neighborhood. We all played together. And so I walked the same, I talked the same, I moved the same. I was very athletically blessed.

And so as I was out playing in the neighborhood, as you did back then, I'll be 57 years old tomorrow. So, you know, times were very different then. There weren't play dates. You played with neighborhood kids.

I fit in just like the other boys. And so when I started hearing how language was being brought to me different than it was to them in the sense that my best friend Johnny was addressed as he or him or brother or son, I was being addressed as she, her daughter and girl.

And that was before preferred pronouns, all of that. But within myself, I still recognized that there was a difference in our identifiers, even though on the inside, I didn't feel any different than Johnny and Brian and Billy, our little neighborhood crew.

And so when I started expressing this to my parents, in particular, my mother, she became very concerned. And at eight years old, she brought me to our family doctor and said, my daughter thinks she's a boy.

What should we do? And as per her referring to this story, she said, the doctor said, don't worry about it. She'll make a fine wife someday. She'll grow out of this and she'll be fine. What we know now is statistically that's actually accurate.

Most children who have gender confusion, if there's no affirmation or no bullying from anyone and they just make their way through puberty on the other side of puberty, statistically, it's the high 80s or even into the 90 percent of those children no longer have that same type of gender confusion.

However, that wasn't my story. I continued in gender confusion, which eventually became gender dysphoria. And then as I got a little older and that puberty did start kicking in, that's when I realized I was attracted to girls the same way the boys were.

So that was all very confusing for me. There wasn't anyone for me to talk to back then concerning these issues. So I just buried all of that deep inside. When I hit high school, I tried to present myself in a more feminine manner, but I was still being made fun of.

So having long hair didn't make a difference. I was still being called derogatory names and such. And so it was very, very difficult. That in itself was difficult. But there was other situations in my life that caused deep wounds within my heart and my soul.

And that was just the communication that I saw between my parents in the home. And this isn't me blaming my parents or throwing them under the bus. It's just what I experienced. And it plays a part in my testimony.

But I saw my father consistently berate and degrade my mother with names and just calling her useless and worthless and stupid. And so I heard that every day. And in my little child mind, my choice was either to believe my dad with his words, and that would make my mother stupid and worthless and crazy or not believe my dad.

But that would make him really mean and a liar. So what my brain chose to receive and then my heart received was that my my mom was those things that he identified her as. And so I detached from my mom and just grew more in wanting to identify as a boy because that brought strength.

And these boys growing into men seemed to have more have a stronger character and more protection and better jobs and more fun jobs. And so that's what I wanted. And during that time, I was also experiencing sexual abuse.

And so, again, with my mind trying to figure out what was happening and how to make sense of all this, the way my thoughts received it was that only little girls get sexually molested, not little boys.

So if I could just somehow physically become this boy that I already feel like in my heart and my mind, maybe the sexual abuse would stop. But obviously, that's not what happened. And so I just, again, buried all of that.

I tried, like I said, conforming to what I believe my family in the world wanted of me as a girl. So at 19 years old, I got married. That was a failed marriage. And then after that, I fully came out and started identifying and presenting.

Not really identifying, but I started presenting in the masculine, but identifying as gay. And that's when I actually felt relief and freedom for the first time. I felt relief identifying in the masculine because I felt like that if men saw me as a man, they would not try to ever hurt me again.

So I presented in the masculine. My armor was my male persona, my male clothing, my underclothing, my outer clothing. Everything that I bought was from the men's department. So that was my suit of armor.

That was my protection because I wasn't raised in a Christian home and I didn't know anything about the Lord. I certainly didn't know anything about Ephesians chapter six, where I could wear the armor of God instead of creating my own armor.

For those of you who might not know what I'm talking about in Ephesians chapter six, it's where to stand strong in the Lord and stand in these days of evil that we're in and have the helmet of salvation and the breastplate of righteousness and hold up the shield of faith and wear the belt of truth and carry around walking in the shoes of peace.

And of course, have the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God in our hearts and minds at all time. But I didn't know anything about that. So I created my own armor. I didn't know anything about God.

So I created my own God. I believed in reincarnation. I believed in mother nature. I believed maybe UFOs carried aliens that were God-like somehow. I wasn't an atheist. I knew there was someone or something bigger and better and higher and stronger than me.

I just didn't know who that God was. And I certainly didn't look into the God of Christianity because the only thing I knew about that God was from the signs that I would see being held up at gay pride parades that would say things like, God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, or homos will burn in hell or God hates fags.

And so I pulled as far away from that God as I could, but always seeking to find some type of spirituality. And so God knew that was enough for the Lord. He knew that in that seeking, it was truly him that I was seeking.

And so he came and made himself very known to me through two very difficult circumstances, I believe, led me to really come to see who the Lord was. And that was through 9 -11, which we just, I don't want to use the word celebrated, but we just acknowledged again yesterday, I was a flight attendant for a major airline based out of Newark, New Jersey, and so was my girlfriend at the time.

And so we both had 9 -11 off. And so we watched this devastation take place from our home. Our house was 17 miles as a crow flies from the towers. We didn't know if we knew any friends working those flights that day.

Our families couldn't get ahold of us. They didn't know if we were working the flights that day. And so it was very, very devastating. It was very, very hard to get back on an airplane and work those flights again, not knowing if something like this was going to happen on our flights.

And then just a couple of months after that, my only brother, Larry, was diagnosed with.

The Gospel, Leviticus 18:22, and Romans 1

Lung cancer.

And so I would go, you know, I'd be in Newark, New Jersey, working flights, not knowing if I was going to literally die that day. And then on my days off, I would drive to Janestown, New York, and spend time with my brother and help him, not knowing if he was going to die from the cancer.

And so death was becoming more and more real to me. And in the process of visiting my brother, he told me one time I came, and he's like, Patty, sit down. I have something to tell you. It's so exciting.

And I was like, are you in remission? Are you going to make it through this? He's like, no, no, no, not that. He's like, Bruce, Bruce Nordwall, the guy across the street, has been bringing his Bible over and reading these things called the Gospels to me.

And they talk about Jesus. And Patty, I believe in Jesus now. And his face just lit up, man, when I tell you, we come from a long line of unbelievers. And so I was so excited because I saw his excitement.

But at the same time, there was a little fear in my heart wondering if he was now going to tell me that I was going to go to hell because I was gay. But he didn't. He had a conversation with Bruce and asked Bruce, you know, Larry asked me, Patty, do you believe in God?

Do you and your girlfriend believe in God? And I said, yes, absolutely, of course, you know, because I had made up my own. So I answered yes. And so Larry brought that to Bruce and said, Bruce, my sister and her girlfriend say they believe in God.

Are they going to go to heaven? And Bruce told my brother, he's like, Larry, there's a couple of things. He's like, if Patty and her girlfriend truly believe in Jesus Christ, then they have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of them.

And the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, of righteousness and of of justice. And the Holy Spirit will convict them of the sin that they're in. And they'll lay that down before the Lord and walk with him instead of walking with each other.

Amos 3 3 says, can two walk together unless they are agreed? And so he's like, there's that he's like, but if they don't believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, then they won't be going to heaven.

But it has nothing to do, so to speak, of their homosexuality. It has to do with the fact that they don't believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. As John the Baptist was was declaring Jesus as he was walking on the scene, as Jesus was coming to be baptized, he says, behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

And Jesus does take away our sin as as a whole, the sin of unbelief. And then every single sin that we've ever committed in our life, past, present and future. Jesus died for on that that cross for our salvation.

And so now that I added a lot to that, but but it was a basic, simple conversation between Bruce and Larry. And my brother told me that. And that was the first time there was ever a seed planted in my heart that said, wait.

God could love me if I just simply believe in him. But that's as far as it went. And then shortly after that, my brother, as I was holding his hand in the hospital, he passed away. My brother died right in front of me.

And that changed everything. And so. So one morning shortly after that, I woke up, I rolled over and I looked at my girlfriend and I just said. Do you ever think the way we're living is wrong?

Wow.

I couldn't believe those words came out of my mouth like like, you know, you want to take them back as soon as you say them, especially when she looked at me with the biggest eyes I'd ever seen her have in our long relationship that we had with each other.

And she responded with this. And it's still this is my story. It still blows my mind. She said, I can't believe you just asked me that. I was literally just getting ready to ask you the same thing.

Wow.

That is who our God is. That is who God and the Holy Spirit is. And he came and he met us right in the midst of our sin. And so we were very moved by that. And we just got on our knees right in our bedroom and said, God, if you're real, will you show us?

And if the way we're living is wrong, show us. And so I'm like, hey, I think I think we need a Bible because my brother said that that was pretty important. So we run up into our attic and we're fishing through boxes and we find one and we come downstairs with this Bible in our hand, not knowing what to do with it or just flipping through pages and pages and pages.

And finally, I'm like, this is ridiculous. I point my hand in the Bible and I said, let's just see what it says right here. And as God would have it, that happened to be Leviticus 18, 22, which says, and you shall not lie with a male as with a woman.

It is an abomination.

That's remarkable.

Yes.

So obviously, obviously, we don't encourage people to do their Bible study that way. But God just in his providence happened to do that in that case.

Yes.

Now, wasn't that ironically, please, folks, don't think for a second that I am condoning the Westboro Baptist Church and their hellish behavior, their mockery of people who are in their sin, particularly homosexuals, with zero compassion to want to see them come to Christ.

But isn't that the verse that the Westboro Baptist Church folks were putting on their signs that you saw?

Yes, it is. And I'm glad you said that, Chris, because that's the difference of First Corinthians 13, verse one. And first, first Corinthians 13, verse eight, the first Corinthians 13, one says that that even though we speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, we become a sounding brass and a clanging cymbal.

And then we typically call First Corinthians 13, the love chapter and see, we see what love is and what love isn't. And then when we get to verse eight of that chapter, it says love never fails. And so I believe when we come to people with God's word, if we come humbly and full of grace, and if they're the spirit of God is telling us that they're ready to receive that particular verse because he's already been working on their heart, then I believe we can bring God's word to people with both grace and truth.

Because First Corinthians 13 also says, I believe it's verse six that says love does not rejoice in iniquity, but it rejoices in the truth. So so love is truth.

But so there you had an example, just like with Joseph and his brothers who sold him into slavery. You have an example of in regard to the God hates fags, folks, what you meant for evil, God meant for good.

And that verse burned in your memory that you saw in the Bible when you pointed at it. And people might be wondering, well, how could holding up a biblical text be meant for evil? Well, it's because, as I said before, the Westboro Baptist Church cult has no desire to see homosexuals come to Christ.

They are just there to publicly taunt them and to mock them and laugh and rejoice in their being hell bound. They have no desire to win them to Christ. So that's why I described it as intending it for evil, because people do use the scriptures in evil ways.

Yes. And we know that that's not why God has given us his his holy word.

Amen.

Well, let's pick up where you left off, because we have to go to our first commercial break.

And all right.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Patty Height, our email address is chrisarenson at gmail dot com. Chrisarenson at gmail dot com. As always, give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Perhaps you share some of the same background as our guest, Patty. Perhaps you're struggling with same sex attraction.

Whatever the issue is that would compel you to remain anonymous, we would be more than happy to honor your request. But if it's a general question, please give us your first name, at least city and state and country of residence.

We'll be right back with Patty Height and Pastor Eric Mosman right after these messages from our sponsors.

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That's royaldiadem .com, mention Iron Sharpen's Iron. We're now back with our guest, Patty Height, a former lesbian and founder of Out of Egypt Ministries and speaker at an upcoming event at Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, October 6th and 7th.

That's a Friday and Saturday and we also have with us, serving as a co-host, the pastor of Tree of Life Church in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, Eric Mosman and we are discussing Patty Height's testimony and also the theme, Confronting and Refuting the Lie that Homosexuality is a Permanent Fixture in the Heart and Mind.

If you have a question, go to chrisorensen at gmail .com, chrisorensen at gmail .com and give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence unless your question is personal and private and before the break, Patty, as you may recall, we had reached the point in your testimony where you and your girlfriend at the time, after really being convicted that the way you were living was ungodly, you got down on your knees and began to pray and why don't you pick up from where you left off there?

Conviction, Repentance, and New Identity in Christ

Yeah, praise the Lord for conviction. So as I said, we grabbed a Bible, the Lord through His sovereignty led us to Leviticus 18 .22 which says, And you shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

And before I go on, I just want to pause for a second and say that that scripture says it is an abomination, not they are an abomination. The Lord in His Word is talking about the behavior, that it is sinful and it is not right according to God's Word, according to creation, it is not natural.

And not only that verse, but the other verses in the Bible that talk about homosexual sexual behavior, it only talks about it in a behavioral way, never in an identity. Nowhere in the Bible does it call homosexuality an identity, only a sexual behavior.

And it always describes it as sinful. So we saw that verse. We were very moved by that. But neither one of us being raised in the church didn't really know what to do with that. So after about a week, I was like, that's only talking about men.

I wonder if the Bible says anything about women being together. So we asked a friend at work if there was any that was a Christian, if she knew about anything in the Bible talking about women being together intimately and sexually as being sinful.

And she told us to read Romans chapter one. And we did because we were seeking. So when we got to Romans chapter one, verse twenty six and twenty seven, this is what we read. For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions for even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature.

Likewise, also the men. So that word likewise is is a continuation of this thought that we see this truth that we see in verse twenty six. Likewise, also the men leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their lust for one another.

Men with men committing what is shameful and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error, which was due. So at that point, we knew we had to find a church, which was very scary for us. But but that's that's it was burning in our hearts to find a church.