Jesus and Politics Conference Preview

Conference Preview and the Value of In-Person Fellowship

All right, everyone, welcome once again to another edition of the conversations that matter podcast. I'm your host, John Harris, as always on a cool and I'm going to say fall. It's definitely fall morning here in upstate New York.

And I'm kind of curious where my my guest today, Tim Bushong, you're in Indiana. Is it a fall morning there?

It is. We've we've enjoyed about three weeks of the greatest weather that can possibly be. And it just now had a little rain last night. And it's one of those classic darker fall days. I might still go out and take a walk and stuff a little windier.

But man, it's just been gorgeous. And now everything's just you see in the gold and the red peak through the trees.

Don't they call that a blustery day? Isn't that what Winnie the Pooh called time for.

A little something? Yeah, yeah. A little smack girl, honey. Well, for those who don't know,.

You are the pastor of Syracuse Baptist Church here in Syracuse, Indiana. Yeah. And you're hosting the Jesus and Politics Conference, which I just got done with the truth script men's conference. And yeah, man, I'm telling you, like, it's good.

I had a good time. It's fun. But you're just like shot at the end if you're the go to guy for everything, which I know you are. So I mean, how how's that coming along? Is it are you organized? Are.

You ready? Yeah, we've got our church is just awesome. I was having a conversation with the brother last night. He's a little bigger church, quite a bit bigger. But he's like, man, it's just something about that, that smaller group, 100, 120 some people.

You know, they love each other. And they just work together really well. And that's I'm blessed to have not only deacons and another elder in the church, but just the folks are great. And, you know, sometimes you have a couple of squeaky wheels in a local church.

That's that's true. It's always average church life. But, you know, when you got a number of families that just can take the initiative and, you know, you don't have to say, hey, could you possibly they're already in the plans.

Sometimes I'll text and oh, yeah, we started that. Great. So I don't have to do it. There's still a lot, though. You're right. I mean, it's it's kind of the when you're the guy who's organizing and the point, man, where everybody wants to, you know, go through you and make sure that they get to know you and everything.

And then it is a decompression after a conference. Oh, sure. Yeah. And we were praying for you.

Guys to go. Well, we have. Yeah. Yeah. Everything went pretty well. I'd say the only thing and I realized this last night that and this is on me is I think three of the sessions we did, the mic was on mute, the recording mic.

Right. So which my heart sank. But the year before, we didn't record anything. And I've always kind of had that philosophy that it's for people who show up. And so when people ask and say, do you have out?

Well, you should have showed up, you know? Yeah, it. But I definitely it's kind of a weird thing in the Internet age. I think less people want to go to conferences because they can just hear the recording later if they want to hear the recording.

But there is something I think uniquely special about being there, not just because there's fellowship, which is should be reason enough to come to a conference. That's probably a huge reason. But also, when you're in the audience, I think the messages hit you different.

They're meant for you in a more direct way. And of course, we do Q and A's and things like that. And so you get to interact more with the speaker. And anyway, I don't want to talk about my conference.

I want to tell about your conference.

This applies to conferences everywhere. It really does. Yeah.

Jesus and Politics Conference: Dates, Theme, and Sign-Up

So so your conference, give us the dates, give us where it is. How do people sign up.

First? Yeah. So I'll I'll link you to the Eventbrite URL and you can post it. But it's October 21st, 2023. It's our fourth annual Jesus in Politics conference. And, you know, the title's a little off-putting to some people, but just consider it the Christian and culture, God and government, state, church and state, Jesus in politics.

They're all basically encompassing the same ideas and principles and topics that would be discussed. So this year we subtitled it Hail to Jesus. And that kind of coincides with the psalm that we shot the music video for earlier this year in April.

And it's a rendition of Psalm 110, the most often quoted passage of the Old Testament in the entire New Testament. And I just thought we need to come up with a banging version of that. And so that kind of is a great jumping off point for all of our speakers, you know, given the cultural climate we're in, our society seems to be just rushing headlong into Romans 1 territory.

And that's sad to see, because if you're a true patriot, if you're a true American, not just a Christian, and let's not try to make this gloss over and well, it needs to apply to every Christian who lives everywhere in the whole entire world.

No, we all live in different locations. We all have certain affinities and connections. And so if you're in northern Indiana in 2023, there are certain topics and cultural manifestations of righteousness or evil that you're going to be more in tuned with than say the things that are going on in Hungary today or even Uganda.

Can I say that? Uganda?

We all have that flag, right? Yeah, yeah. But many Christians on Twitter have posted that flag on their profile.

What's going on? Yeah, I'm not going to read the Christianity Today today article, you know, I think.

Yeah, I did see that a few months ago. And that was a hot topic. They're anti. People are framing it as anti-homosexual, but it's really more of a very specific. It's if you, I think, contracted certain like venereal diseases and AIDS, you shouldn't be having sexual relationships with virgins, that kind of thing.

It's definitely common sense application of law to a society, you know. Yeah, it's so common sense.

But it's of course, you know, you have even Ted Cruz and conservatives thinking this is the worst thing in the world. Right, right. But but anyway, yeah, I mean, you think you're right there. You're in a particular situation in northern Indiana.

One of the things I've always appreciated about your conferences, and I've been to two of them, is you always have a local rep come in from Indiana who's who's explains to the people who primarily are from Indiana what's happening in their state government and what they can do and what what the issues are.

And yes, yeah, it always sounds great to me, especially coming from New York, because I'm just like, wow, you know, it's so much better. But but, you know, when you hear about the corruption of the Republican Party, it's also kind of discouraging because you're like, it's better than a blue state.

But it's also like it's not what it could be. It could be so much more. And but anyway, I mean, I've always appreciated that.

Local Political Engagement, Abortion, and the Limits of the Republican Party

Well, the first the first year you came was in twenty one. I think that's the year we had Jason Arp show up from Fort Wayne, the councilman. Yeah, we were supposed to have Kurt Knisely as well, who was our in our state representative.

He had a family emergency last minute. And we're like, fair enough. And I thought, Jason, you know, he's not he's not a public speaker. But when it came time for the Q &A, he had the most interesting stories and data to share with everyone because he'd been in the middle of it.

And and then so then last year we did have Kurt speak. Now it was his his last kind of I think within the last week of his holding that position. And he's he had done a lot of work, especially with with trying to get bills of abolition passed.

And what's what's really been disconcerting to a lot of Christians when they find this out, that one of the greatest bastions of opposition to abolishing abortion, even putting it out there, has been institutional right to life groups.

And my kids didn't know that they were like, why can't we just do it all? I said, oh, hey, I'm I'm all about that smash mouth incrementalism. You know, I get it. Yeah. But but with on the same you're on the same team, you've got a whole faction of people saying, well, you guys, you know, you're hitting too hard.

Don't hit because, you know, they they won't like it, whatever. I know it's deeper than that.

I'm just. Yeah, yeah. Characterizing it. Well, it reminds me of the meme, you know, us younger guys, I guess. Am I still a younger guy? I think so. We are. We think in memes. That's that's part of the problem with the millennials and the Gen Z is, you know, memes just come to mind.

And there's just one meme where it's a it's a format that you could put a lot of things in. But it's the child who asks his mom, you know, why can't we have that at home? And the mom says we already have that at home.

And then it's a picture of some pathetic, you know, rendition. You know, it's like I want a super soaker. We already have squirt guns at home and it's like some pathetic. Right. So I feel that way about the pro life.

Like it's like, hey, why can't we have anti-abortion organizations and legislatures? And it's like the Republican Party is like, we have that already. And then you look at what you have and you're like, this is a joke.

Right. And it's regulated baby dismemberment. Oh, great. Way to go. Yeah.

And I hated it. My eyes have been open to that more, I would say, recently, I think. I mean, I've I've always known that the Republican Party's corrupt, that there's corruption surrounding them and all the organizations.

But I think that Lizzie Marbuck thing really it was in Ohio, not Indiana. Neighboring state, though. And yeah, that really just boy. Yeah. And I talked to her a little off camera, too. And I'm just like, we're in a bad way, man.

Yeah, that was that was a that was an eye opening interview. I really appreciated that one. You know, one of the so one of the things about about our conference in particular is that although it has this kind of scandalizing title to it, what I've tried to do and like, you know, I've told people the first one was kind of last minute is 2020.

Hey, let's have a conference. It's the middle of September. Who needs months and months of planning? Let's just throw it out there and see what happens, you know. But I try to bring people that are going to either, like you say, have some skin in the game locally, have some experience in the political realm because we're not Anabaptist.

We don't believe that turn the other cheek means you can't be a police officer, you know, or a public official or county commissioner or chief of police. And so also bringing in that other perspective, it's like a like a multifaceted diamond.

You got a lot of different lights showing it make up the one thing is a pastoral perspective as well. You know, we got people in the pews that are. Frankly, just shell shocked, if that's a good way to put it.

Pastoral Perspective, Memes, and the Need for Clear Teaching

And thinking in memes, go back to that for just a second. That's that's actually not that new. It if you think about the Reformation and some of the memes that Martin Luther had drawn up with the pope and flatulence, I mean, it it says an awful lot.

You can you can get a good point across. And that's why I'm not I'm not a huge fan of, you know, our hour and 15 sermons. You've got to be pretty, pretty on point to make those, you know, stick and be able to walk away going, yes, now that's something right.

And so in the conference, you know, leading up to it, we're going to be pushing some nuts, not sloganeering, but meme type of truths that can be communicated that are going to make some people angry and some people are going to go, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, the whole time we've we've had it. There have been people that are like more from my generation, a little older. You know, they're the traditional Reagan conservatives. You also have the the the far end of the other spectrum, not from the left.

We haven't had people. I don't know why they don't want to come to our conference. I don't get it. You know, you could just you could ask questions.

First time I came, you had a local newspaper guy there. Yeah. Trying to ask me questions. And it's funny because I was super skeptical. I was trying I did. I wanted to ignore the guy. I just my own experiences with the media have always been negative.

Yeah, there's three major events in my life. I was there and I saw what they reported and it wasn't what I saw. And I exactly. And but this he's but you still have that Norman Rockwell kind of feel to Syracuse where, you know, the local newspaper man is, you know, if he doesn't get it right, he's going to hear from you.

You know, it's like it's just interesting to me that small town dynamic. It's still alive and well in many parts of this country.

But by the way, that man's name is Ray Below and he passed away a month ago.

Oh, really? Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that.

I was, too. I'd reached out to him and, you know, because it's every year he's been very, very positive. I mean, he took flack on Facebook for even reporting that we're going to have this conference. You know, all the crazies came out.

Even even fellow Christians came out of the woodwork and were like, oh, any church that does this should lose their tax exempt status. And he stuck with it. Well, so when I reached out the the new person, oh, I'm so sorry.

He passed. I didn't I didn't even know it was it was a great. So are they going to cover it or? Yeah, actually, today paper comes out. They said they're going to run a run a feature today and then next week as well.

So nice. We'll see. We'll see how it's reported. My experience with the media has been exactly like yours. Only I'll ask you one question. You give an answer. And then the in the interview you see on television, that same answer is to a completely different question and changes everything.

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty amazing the things they there is this one. I still remember I was asked to do an interview and I didn't do it. Someone else took my place, but it was on these Confederate memorials or monuments in Raleigh, North Carolina.

They were taking them down, you know, the state capitol. They want to take them down. And the whole thing was hysterical to me because, you know, they did the zoom in with the scary music. I think it was on this this memorial that was the mother's memorial literally to moms who, you know, their sons went to war.

And it was like, you know, the shadows of white supremacy are still with us. And anyway, the guy they got to that they had originally asked me, but the guy they ended up filling in with. He's he said one thing the entire segment was like a 20 minute segment or something out of 15 minutes, maybe.

But it was the opposition. So, you know, they interview their expert, who's, of course, you know, has the same view as the interviewer, a liberal who has. And then they get, you know, their neutral citizen, who's also a hack, you know, for the left.

And then they have their one guy who's like, you know, give the conservative response. And this is all he said the entire segment. They said, well, what would you do if someone says I'm offended by these statues?

And he says, well, I'd ask him if they want to have a cup of coffee with me. Cut. That was it. That's all he said. The only pushback in the entire thing for, you know, the left's agenda was, you know, conservative wants to have a cup of coffee with you.

Well, it's kind of fitting, I suppose.

Well, for the for the entire Starbucks advertising plan that they had come up with, that's pretty helpful. But yeah, not for the not for the rest of us.

Media Manipulation, Cultural Decline, and Hope in Christ

Well, we need a white pill here. We need you know, you're you're always happy, which probably makes some people mad, I would imagine. But you do these these conferences in, you know, during Biden's presidency.

And, you know, a lot of things look kind of bleak. What you know, what gives you hope? What what do you see on the horizon that you're excited about? Why do you keep even doing this? What's the point?

Yeah, those are those are good questions. I think what first of all, they're hail to Jesus, if Jesus is truly king and he has a kingdom and that kingdom has manifestations in the world in which we live.

And Christians look around and we don't see, you know, like Hebrews says, we do not yet see this, but we see Jesus. And I know that's a bit of an exegetical stretch, but I'm a pastor. And in closing in three hours later.

So it's like since that's true and that means that the antithesis is a lie. Satan's not the god of this world in the sense of physical universe. He's the he's the god of the worldly world, you know, where backdoor deals and backstabbings and lying and grand armies with banners waving, that's the only thing he's got.

And we have the Lord Jesus Christ who overcame death itself. And Jesus is interested in the political systems that we have, because Jesus loves his creation. God so loved his creation that he did what he gave his son as a propitiation for all his people.

And it's not in order to instantly translate us into glory. It's so that we grow in maturity in Christ. And part of that growing in maturity in Christ is growing in maturity of your understanding of the world around you.

So I want to bring in people that are going to help the local Christians here. And this year, we've got people coming from a lot farther away than just a couple hours, which I'm just so excited about.

But we want to equip them so that they can think, first of all, outside of the the box that the pagans want to put you in, you know, the assumptions of, say, post World War Two, Enlightenment based Eisenhower.

We always you know, we knock we shouldn't say that. But because Eisenhower was a pretty decent man. But we we tend to associate the Eisenhower presidency with that lull in the spiritual battle action.

You know, our enemies have been defeated, except for Russia. And, you know, the the baby boom is going on. Unions can negotiate contracts that are completely unsustainable in reality, which is what has happened, you know.

And so all that to say, that's not the world we live in. We live in 2023. In fact, wouldn't it be nice to go back to the early 80s? Well, no, because that's not the time we live in. And that had its own problems.

You know, I was there. I remember. I remember Clarence Thomas getting thrown under the bus. There's always been this Machiavellian, you know, top down at all costs winning, you know. Well, now it's gotten to the point where, you know, people are genuinely distressed about not just their pocketbook, but about a war looming in the east.

You know, this sounds like Tolkien or something. A great power. I've seen the eye, you know. Yeah. And we have supposedly Christian conservative Republican leaders saying, well, we might have to send troops over to, you know, where I'm like, you guys have lost your minds.

What possible priority would an alliance with a group of nations take over your own country? My stars. The southern border is it's collapsed. You know, a state governor tries to do something and the feds come in and break it up.

OK.

That's that sounds familiar. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of like the stuff that makes for civil wars, really. I mean, yeah. Yeah. And I think maybe the national or the general government is too strong now and the states are too weak to do much of that.

But, you know, not that anyone wants a war, but but even just trying to nullify or saying we don't care, which, you know, we're going to arrest any federal officer that comes in here and tries to stop us from securing our border, that kind of thing.

Yeah. Which inevitably, you know, the general government wants their control. So it would probably lead to conflict.

But but there's a real gauntlet being thrown down there on that level. And all the while, you know, the people in in the boroughs of New York City that are being overrun with those same supposedly refugee.

They're not. There's no war. Right. Right. And they can't take it. So there's there's unrest there. And this is all playing into the hands of the future Napoleon. You know, if you want to say it that way, it's interesting.

Because I'm an hour and a half, two hours north of New York City. And yeah, they they desperately they've always done this. This is a there's a battle between upstate and New York City where, you know, upstate every once in a while.

The talk of splitting the state up and seceding and letting the city do their own thing comes up. And of course, it'll never happen. But well, I shouldn't say never. But in the current political paradigm, it won't happen.

And yeah, they New York City keeps trying to kind of take their problems and, you know, ship them to other parts of the state. So they'll take their homeless problem and ship their homeless people up to some small town in the middle of the Catskill Mountains.

Right. We're like Roscoe, New York. Or yeah, in this recent thing, what they did was they tried to send some of the illegal migrants up to displace veterans who are living in hotels in Newburgh, New York.

And yes, the mayor or the I should say the county supervisor got so mad and I guess put an end to it. And so it's contained now a little more, as I understand it, in New York. I'm sure the problem the problem is reaching us.

I know it is because I see it. But but but it's just interesting. Like they're having to live with the consequence of their terrible decisions and policies, whereas in years prior, they never did. It was always border states.

Yeah. You know, they've got the brunt of it. And part of me is happy to see that. So, yeah, they'll think through. But I don't think they will.

Subsidiarity, Local Responsibility, and Christian Dominion

Well, so so it sounds like we're we're painting a dire picture. And yeah. Yeah. I was trying to get away from that. I mean, exactly. Exactly. What did you what happened? OK. So there's a there's a principle of subsidiary.

I saying that right. It's that that Chesterton local is better than bigger. Whatever you can solve on a local level.

Yeah. So yeah, I think it's a Roman Catholic sort of political philosophy. But yeah, that's right. Yeah. Good one. Yeah.

Yeah. It's one of those. I mean, we can look at at the representative republic we have as a result of northern European Protestantism. Well, OK, if the Roman Catholics come up with something that's.

Well, like, you know, sphere sovereignty is pretty similar to. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can't say that either. Exactly. Subsidiary. Something. Yeah. It was it was Chesterton and his buddy who were embracing that. But so anyway, that that that said. There is a there is a principle in which you want to strengthen what remains and be able to prioritize that which you have direct contact with and even authority over.

So, for example, every every man, every father listening to us today can be scratching his head and worried about Ukraine. But the main priority is his household getting his finances in order, making sure his children are being led well, that his wife is is fulfilled spiritually and emotionally and in all the things that a man has to do in his in his household.

And start there. You know, we always talk about this in relation to missions and evangelism and somebody. So I think I'm called to be a missionary says, well, are you reaching out to anyone where you live now?

And if you're not, then you might not have a missionary evangelist calling, you know, you just don't know. And so this is why it's been helpful, guys like Michael Foster with the county before country conference and not just a conference, but actually putting these things into practice.

There's some there's a town that they they intentionally moved in the proximity of. They have business set up. They have jobs. There's a manufacturing base. So what's interesting about this area of the country is that, yeah, we've got our we've got our loony lefty contingency.

Every every community does. But by and large, this is a prosperous area because of basic fundamental Protestant work ethic going on. So when people recognize that, they go, OK, if if I am unemployed in Syracuse, it's because I don't want to work, which is different than maybe being unemployed somewhere else where it's a real desperation to have.

Yeah. Some kind of employment and income. And the other thing is that since there since the church is is God's fundamental ordained organization on earth, the local church. I'm a Baptist, so I don't think there's anything greater than the local church.

Thank you. Then it's really imperative that local churches, pastors train their people to think outside the box, think with within the box of biblical orthodoxy. You know, our our circle, that's, you know, again, presuppositions, unproven assertions, a network.

Once you get that and you're grounding in the word of God, then you need a spine to be able to stand on those principles and act those things, whether it's at the job or at school. I you know, we have a church full of homeschoolers in Christian school.

I don't think there's one one public school family at the same time. I know there are there are things situations in which, OK, that's that's the option you have to take it. Any of those things has to be considered an outpost of the kingdom of God where, OK, this is my sphere.

As for me in my house, we're going to serve the Lord. I don't know about you guys. And just in those small little steps like that, then you can get to organizing abolition movements. You can get towards actually running a candidate that is going to govern in such a way as not to bankrupt the whole entire system or bring in some of the the weirder aspects of our society today.

Yeah. So, you know, since I've always been a big fan of the the the bigger picture worldview, Schaefer Foundations and all that, that's generally where I where I come from, then a Joe Spurgeon is going to come along and give it that challenging pastoral oomph.

You know, remember his talk the time?

Yeah, he's always convicting. And I'm I just have to leave. You know, it's like I can't take this one. I came here to bash the government. What are you doing?

Exactly right. And see, that's where that's where some of the people that have brought these, you know, irrational critiques against us, they don't have any leg to stand up because they don't know what they're talking about.

And we're not about what you wait.

Hold on. Hold on. People online saying things that they don't know about.

Hold on. Reminds me of the old the Steve Martin bit where he says, my grandmother used to sing this song to me. It's all gentle. And and then the next line, criticize things you don't know about.

I bet you dating yourself a little. I know. OK, Boomer. Yeah, he's got whiter hair than I.

Well, then you all know. Yeah. Then I bring somebody like like you, who is at the time that the big issue was social justice in the church. By the way, it's it's still there. It's just percolating.

You know, you see this year, I don't think I'm going to talk about it. That's right. Right. I'm going to talk about classical liberalism and and really, you know, as it I should say, it's a particular strain that's manifested itself in the postwar consensus that it's just funny to me online right now, how guys who have never it's obvious to me they've never been exposed to this kind of language.

Yeah. Yeah. They probably knew what postwar consensus meant, you know, about two seconds ago and now, you know, the cartoon version. And now they are they're bandying it about all over the place. But of course, this has been I mean, I've read you know, I read Roger Scruton.

Right. I love Roger Scruton. He talks about this. This is something that's been in political philosophy for years. And and it's a particular thing. And so I just you know, I know you're you're Postmill, right?

Even though you're a Baptist, but you're a Postmill Baptist.

Well, it's the only consistent way to be. And it's fun. Let me tell you.

Well, yeah. And you're a theonomist. You take that label or you're you're.

I I'm with Askel and Bacham on this. General equity has to be in there. OK, then you'll get you'll confuse people. And but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. Sure. OK.

Because because even when you were saying, you know, outposts of the kingdom, I'm sensing that's the kind of language in that in that world. And I don't know where I was going with this. I had a question for you.

And now I've just totally lost it, which is happening at my age. So that's right.

Just just wait. Well, here's the other. You were talking about your your topic, the post-war consensus, which in a nutshell is, hey, let's not make such a big deal about this stuff. We'll just tolerate each other.

I had a I had a talk that was very foundational and in helping me flesh some of this out, man, back in the late 80s. I think it was I had it on cassette tape. It was pluralism, relativism and tolerance and the the the overlap, but also the distinctions between those three things.

And, you know, in in normal life, you could tolerate certain things, certain behaviors, as Doug Wilson says, not every sin is a crime. OK. You have to grant that because coveting is a sin. But how can you enforce that?

Right. You only enforce that what you see and observe and watch people do so. So with with pluralism, it's in one sense, it's just a fact of cultural cohesion there. It's the opposite of cohesion, but it happens to be the reality of the situation.

In other words, you could say something very strong, very convictionally based biblical. And what's the average pew sitter who doesn't know better? They're going to say, well, you know, there are people that disagree with you on that.

I had that after I preached through First Timothy two and three. Well, you know, there are some some Christians that don't agree with that as well. Yeah, that's why I'm talking about it, because I want to correct those misconceptions, you know?

Yeah. Yeah.

I think I remembered what I was where I was going with that question that I asked earlier, so I was going to say this will be interesting. So you went through kind of the speakers and I know there's more speakers.

We should probably finish that and then I'll ask you the question. Yeah. So William Wolfe is coming, right? Yes. Yes.

And thanks for recommending him, John.

Yeah. You're going to be in big trouble for having.

Oh, I know. Now I realize that. And it's just too late. You know, the tickets have been purchased. Everything's in place. No, no, no. So here here we have our our requisite conference speaker who has some experience in the realm of, yes, politics.

He actually he worked for the Trump administration.

That's right. That's right. Now, I guarantee if I had somebody coming in who had worked in the Obama administration.

There'd be more people signing up. Do you think so? And in Syracuse, Indiana, it's pretty red there.

It is. It is. I'm talking from the church.

Oh, from from the church. Universal or the church? Yes. OK. Yes. Yes. Yeah, that could be. That could be.

But obviously, the point isn't to just bring in numbers or whatever. I want I want to hear what this this young feller has to say. And I think his some of his perspectives, especially when I just started following him on on X Twitter.

Right. And, you know, yeah, the unknown. Right. You know, he'll he'll say things like again, I've I've said this in the last month a couple of times. But the the my heartbeat is not with my boomer con friends.

There there are a few older guys that I really respect and love and admire. Again, you know, Tom Askell, Voti, Doug Wilson, that list goes on. But there's a bunch of these guys that are just scrambling to try to throw their fellow Christians under the bus.

And and so when I when I read the things that a guy like like you you were very helpful to me. I'm I'm an older guy. I've been around the block a few times. But during that social justice kerfuffle in 19 and 20, very helpful.

A .D. was helpful. Yeah. And now now I'm I'm seeing William Wolfe has a lot to bring to the table. He he's no dummy. And he understands how these how the political machinations move on, grinding like a great wheel, crushing everything in his path.

Or can it be tamed and used for good? Well, obviously, we wouldn't be talking about if we thought it was only the former. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Yeah. Fun trivia here.

If A .D. would have responded to his text messages, you know, in time, he would probably be having this conversation with you because the first time I think you said you invited both of us. And I'm the only I responded.

So, yeah, I was the only one. But whoever replies first, I can only afford one of you. Yes. Yeah.

Predictions for the Church, the State, and the Next Decade

So so I this is what I wanted to ask you. I did it. You're I was asking you about kind of your eschatology and your your political or I don't even know if I want to where I fit. Theonomy, your theological public theology.