July 10, 2023 Show with Chris Mueller on “God’s Shocking Answer to the Gender Crisis”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father

James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister

George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all happy Monday on this 10th day of July, 2023, and I'm thrilled to have a first -time guest today to discuss a vital subject.

His name is Chris Mueller, preaching minister and elder at Faith Bible Church of Marietta, California, and he's also one of the many speakers at the upcoming 2023

G3 National Conference. Today, we're going to be addressing God's shocking answer to the gender crisis, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Chris Mueller.

Chris, it's great to be here. It's an honor. Just really thrilled to be able to be with you and to be with your listening audience as well as to talk through these issues.

Amen, and have I pronounced your name correctly, Mueller? Yes, sir, that's what it is.

And is it Marietta, California? It is Marietta. We're a church right now establishing a place in Wildomar, which is right next to Marietta, but we're about 20 years of set -up, take -down church, and we're about to move on property right now by the 15 freeway in Wildomar.

And tell our listeners more about this congregation, including your theological stance and that kind of thing.

Well, my roots are from Grace Community Church, and most of our elders have had either exposure or come from Grace Community, where John MacArthur is the senior pastor.

Our doctrine and approach to Scripture would almost be identical, where we're trying to honor the author's intended message of God's Word and draw our doctrine out of the text.

And so we have just unapologetically continued to remain true to that particular stance of Scripture.

So we would be Reformed, we would be premillennial, we would be definitely those who would not burp and go on when we approach a difficult issue, but we actually try to deal with all of what the

Scripture says on everything. And so it is our guidepost, it's our light, our lamp, and we revolve around that, and of course pursuing becoming like Jesus Christ in every way we possibly can, to be light and salt on a hill, and to be a congregation that truly reaches out to our community with the love and the gospel message of Jesus Christ.

Amen. If anybody wants to learn more about Faith Bible Church of Marietta, California, go to faith -bible .net,

faith -bible .net. And tell us about exactly what you will be speaking on, if you even know it yet.

I know that very often the speakers at the G3 conference don't know until right before the conference what they're speaking on.

But the G3 conference is my favorite of all conferences. I've been manning an exhibitor's booth there for Iron Trip and Zion Radio every year for quite a number of years.

I believe I may have started when they had their first national conference outside of Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglaston, Georgia, and when they were at the conference hall there, or convention center, in Atlanta near the

Atlanta airport. But I've been enjoying that every time they have that conference.

I'm amazed at how many people, dozens and dozens of people, come up to me whom

I have never heard from before to encourage me about how much they love my show, Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

And I've also made valuable new connections and friendships there. But the theme is the sovereignty of God.

Can't think of a better theme than that. The conference will be held Thursday, September 21st, through Saturday, September 23rd, in Atlanta.

And I have a wonderful discount, a huge discount for everybody listening, which

I will mention to you momentarily using the Iron Trip and Zion Radio discount code if you register for this conference.

But tell us about your job there at the upcoming

Sovereignty of God conference. Well, this will be the second time that I've been to G3, and I was invited with a group of men from the

Master's Fellowship and the Master's Seminary and College to come and do a pre -conference.

So we were able to minister to some of the folks prior to the

G3 conference itself. I was overwhelmed by the number of people that come to G3.

It was a delightful time meeting up with brothers and sisters, some whom I know, many who

I did not. And so it was a thrill. And so Josh Busey is a wonderful man of God, and he's taken the risk of having me come back and do a breakout session this year.

And it will be seemed around what he desired was that I would talk about gender issues, but that I would also render some discussion on discipleship and training in the context of dealing with the gender crisis.

So that's why it's actually what we're talking about today would be what we're going to be talking about at G3, the shocking answer to the gender crisis.

Now, did you say Gary Busey is going to be there? I'm only kidding. Did I say that?

I said Josh. Didn't I say Josh? Yes. I was just kidding you because you actually made me feel better because I mispronounced the city where Praise Mill Baptist Church is.

It's Douglasville, Georgia, not Douglaston. Sorry about that, Praise Mill Baptist Church. But you mispronounced

Josh's last name. It's Bice, even though it's spelled like it should be Busey. Oh, my goodness.

Okay. Well, that's great. He was going to redeem that last name, so I'm glad to hear that.

So thank you for the clarification. Okay. And, folks, if you want to find out more about this conference, go to g3min .org,

G -3 -M -I -N, an abbreviation for ministries, G3 -M -I -N .org,

click on events, and when you register, if you use the promo code for Iron Trump and Zion Radio, which is

G3 -I -S -I -R, you will get 30 % off the registration fee.

So I strongly urge you to write that down so you don't forget, and I strongly urge you to register as soon as possible.

They are expecting the largest crowd ever in the history of the G3 conferences, 8 ,500 people or more, and I've never been to a conference that large.

I believe the last G3 conference was just a little over 6 ,000, maybe approaching 7 ,000, but I've never been to an event or at least a

Bible conference where there are 8 ,500 people. And so go to g3min .org

and use the promo code G3 -I -S -I -R,

G3 -I -S -I -R, and this conference, as it always does, has a mind -blowing roster of speakers.

Not only will you have Josh Bice, the founder of G3 Ministries, speaking, and by the way, he is absolutely an extraordinary preacher.

Votie Baucom will be speaking there. Steve Lawson, Paul Washer, Phil Johnson, executive director of John MacArthur's Grace to You Ministries, my dear friend of many years,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, Mike Riccardi, who is on the faculty at the

Master's Seminary, Justin Peters, who's been on this program many times, Ken Ham, who has been on this program and is also coming back to Onion Shrub and Zion Radio, and you might want to mark your calendars for this.

Tuesday, July 25th, Ken Ham will be returning to Onion Shrub and Zion Radio.

Owen Strand, who I have grown to know and love and have interviewed him, and I love hearing him preach.

I have had the opportunity to do that at a number of conferences. James Coates, who is that renowned pastor in Canada that was arrested for refusing to shut down the church where he pastors during the

COVID crisis. Scott Anial, Virgil Walker, Darrell Harrison, both of whom

I love and have interviewed many times on this program. Scott Brown, who

I have interviewed as well, looking forward to having him back. As I said, the aforementioned

Chris Mueller, who's on our program today, Carl Hargrove, Tom Buck, Harry Walls, Nathan Bucinitz, and for the ladies,

Susan Heck, who's been on this broadcast. So please go to g3men .org,

click on Events, and when you register, use promo code G3ISIR for 30 % off the registration fee.

Well, we have a custom here, a tradition on Onion Shrub and Zion Radio, Pastor Chris, whenever we have a first -time guest such as yourself, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which they were raised and what kind of providential circumstances our

Sovereign Lord has raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

So we'd love to hear a summary of your story. Well, I came to know

Christ as a result of the Jesus movement that occurred in the late 60s, early 70s in California and really across the nation.

It was my brother and sister, there's three of us, who came to Christ through that movement and really radically changed the nature of our home.

There were arguments and disagreements. There was discussions about religious leaders who appeared to be criminal in their approaches, and there was all kinds of difficulty and tension.

We came from an agnostic home. My parents were not opposed to the idea of God, but they were not going to want us to walk down the road of some sort of church or etc.

And interesting enough, I was the last to come around in my family because I rebelled in my junior high and high school years, and my parents saw such a change.

Even though they disagreed with my brother and sister, they saw such a significant change in their lives.

They said, well, we better take the youngest one to church to straighten him out. So they ended up at a

Dutch Reformed church in Buena Park, California, and they came to Christ.

First my mom and then my dad, and then they started praying for me. So I think they had the entire church praying for me.

And in that process, I was awakened to the reality of the stupidness of this world.

And all that it had to offer. And even though I went to church, I wasn't a

Christian until about the end of my senior year. And the Lord brought me to a point of genuine repentance, and turned from my sin and followed

Christ at that point. Immediately got involved in student ministry, working with the junior high, and Youth for Christ Campus Life.

I also began to attend my summers at human Christian camps. Got exposed to a different level of Christendom where the

Bible teaching was really at a much higher level. And it really awakened my heart and soul and desire to begin to pursue that.

And through that course of action, in weird circumstances, Grace Church had need of a junior high pastor.

And they couldn't find anybody crazy enough to do it. And they had never hired outside, but they had come to know of me through Hugh Blake and my relationship with their student ministries that they do at Grace.

And through that process, I was hired as the first outside pastor at Grace Church.

Are you speaking of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley where John MacArthur pastored? I am with Dr.

John MacArthur, yes. And John pulled up on a motorcycle at one point and said,

I don't want to fly you down and let's talk. So that's how it happened. And anyway,

I was there for 1979 to 1989 and was trained in ministry, discipled by John.

It was an amazing time. I was his executive pastor before I left for a couple of years and then have been pastoring ever since.

So I've been at Faith Bible for now 17 years. The church has been in existence for 20. And we're having a ball.

We're seeing the Lord do some amazing things. Praise God. And how did you discover and embrace the doctrines of Sovereign Grace?

Because your description of your earlier journey before getting to Grace Community Church, which is a very solid church that believes in and declares unwaveringly the doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

But your history before that seems like it might not be quite from that background.

So how did you discover the doctrines of Grace and fall in love with them and embrace them? I think through reading the

Scripture. You can't get through Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 without beginning to realize that God is sovereign in salvation.

And there were certain books that had come out, J .I. Packer's Knowing God, etc., that began to fuel my love and affection for that.

And I didn't really have any doctrinal differences by the time I was hired at Grace.

I think there were some things that were clarified, but it's been a wonderful journey.

If you're just looking for the author's intended message in any passage, you're going to end up with sound doctrine.

You're going to end up, I believe, to be of a Reformation perspective just by letting the

Bible speak for itself. Well, praise God for that. And when did you realize

God had placed it upon your heart and extended a calling to you to enter into pastoral ministry?

You know, that was an interesting perspective and journey. I really believe that the

Lord had called me apart to be a Bible teacher. And in that process,

I grew through outside ministries of the church, a deep affection for the church, and began to study my ecclesiology and understood what

Christ had designed for His body and began to pursue that pretty intensely.

It was an interesting journey because I was really not tied into a very solid local church, but I began to realize what men taught about the church, what the

Bible described as the local church, and became very much in love with the fact that there was a great need for pastor teachers, a great need for men to open up God's Word in a very clear and unapologetic fashion, and for people to be equipped so that they could do the work of ministry and so that the gospel could be proclaimed.

And so in that whole process, I think by the time I was three years into my seminary training and three years on staff at Grace Church, it became very obvious that I should be a pastor.

That was a great deal of affection for that calling and role. It was affirmed by the elders of grace, and I was ordained there and sent from there.

Praise God for that. Now, let us enter into this very controversial theme that we are about to tackle,

God's shocking answer to the gender crisis. And please explain to us, even though this is something that seems to saturate every form of media every day, numerous times a day, but we're talking about the gender crisis.

Specifically, we're talking about God's shocking answer to it. But please explain the gender crisis in your own words.

Well, the idea that God made male and female in Genesis 1 is under attack in such a way that it's distorting

God's clear and beautiful design for male and female. And it's so obvious in the text that he says he created male and female, and both were designed for God's glory.

Both were designed to honor him, and both were designed to complement one another in marriage.

And so, this idea of more than two genders is biological insanity.

It's moral perversity. It's biblical hostility. You're going against exactly what

God has laid out in his word. And, you know, the society is wanting to silence

God's view. And I believe that it's actually driven by an agenda.

And the agenda is found in Romans 1. It's pretty clear when

God judges a society, when he pours out his wrath, and he does.

He's not waiting to pour out his wrath. He's pouring out his wrath, and it says, For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

So, how does that take place? Well, it says in verse 24 that God gave them over to the lusts of their hearts and impurity.

And then the next stage in his judgment and the revealing of his wrath is verse 26.

For this reason, God gave them over to degrading passions. And then he describes very clearly the homosexual lesbian movement.

And then verse 28, that they didn't see fit to acknowledge God any longer.

God gave them over to a depraved mind. And I believe that what you're seeing today is driven.

I don't think it's just happening. It's driven. And there is an overwhelming sense in the homosexual and lesbian movement to legitimize their behavior and their sin.

And this is an unending effort on their part. And what you're finding in society is,

I believe, the expression of unbridled lust. And secondly, then God giving over to the homosexual and lesbian movement.

And then God giving people over to sin with a depraved mind is basically reflective of the homosexual movement.

It's basically saying, if we can erase gender, then what's the deal with a man sleeping with a man and a woman sleeping with a woman?

What's the big deal? If there's no gender, then there's no issue. And so what you have is this plethora of genders, this plethora of renaming things, of moving away from a clear male and female,

God's design for the sexes, and in marriage, one male, one female in marriage.

And so what they're trying to do is just destroy that. And so what you have is a crisis where, in God's judgment, they're pushing back and they're trying to legitimize their homosexual and lesbian movement.

And they're going to do that by distorting the genders. And if they can do that, then it's very perverse and it's really horrific.

And what they're going to accomplish is ultimately that there's no morality against these issues because there's no man, there's no woman, it's not a big deal.

And it's all in a goal in which to legitimize their behavior. And so what we have is just the next step.

So you've got unbridled lust that has been now shockingly pervasive in our society since the 1960s, coming out of the closet in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s.

And now you've got this depraved mind of inventing ways in which to distort the true identity of only male and only female.

Everybody senses it. Everybody sees it. And those with any thinking mind at all are appalled by what they see and go, how can this be?

Well, again, it's, I believe, driven by evil. And it's driven by also the disintegration of our society.

As it's crumbling around us, this is a part of that process in which to legitimize it.

We're faster moving towards a Sodom and Gomorrah. And I think that we're going to have to be very, very clear as to what we believe and very vocal.

And I believe we're going to find persecution coming through this process as well. By the way, this is a perfect time for me to remind our listeners that my dear friend of many years, going on three decades,

Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries, he is going to be speaking here at a conference, a three -day conference in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, September 15th, 16th, and 17th.

And on Saturday, the 16th of September, there is a very close to finalizing and confirming debate that is going to be held,

God willing, on that day. We are 99 % certain that we are just waiting for a final approval of the debate opponent for Dr.

White. But the theme of this debate will be, is gay

Christian a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's church?

I'm not going to mention Dr. White's opponent in this debate yet because I'm still waiting for the 100 % confirmation that he is going to be involved.

But every exchange we've had via email, he has already said that he's very enthusiastic about participating and is just waiting for a staff member of his ministry to give a final confirmation.

This individual believes, just like Dr. White and I and even my guest,

Pastor Chris Mueller, he agrees with us that homosexuality is a damnable sin if you do not repent from the physical activity of this sin.

He does not believe in same -sex marriage. He believes that sex is only to be enjoyed between a married man and a marriage to a woman, and this monogamous relationship should be for life.

He would agree with many things that evangelicals and Bible -believing

Christians believe about homosexuality, but since he claims to have this same -sex attraction and also believes he is a born -again believer, he believes that it is an acceptable identity to call himself a gay

Christian. So that will be the theme of the debate, God willing, on Saturday, September 16th, and we will keep you updated on the confirmation of that debate and also the venue where the three -day conference will be held in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, featuring

Dr. James R. White. We're going to our first commercial break right now, so if you have a question for Chris Mueller, please submit it to ChrisOrenson at gmail .com.

ChrisOrenson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are struggling with same -sex attraction, and obviously you perhaps do not want to identify yourself at this point.

We understand that. Or perhaps it's because you have a complaint about your church. Perhaps you believe your church is too soft on this issue and too welcoming of this behavior.

Or perhaps you think that they're over the top in their criticism of this behavior.

Perhaps you disagree with my guest and myself. Well, whatever the issue is that would compel you to remain anonymous, we will respect your wishes, and we will not identify who you are.

But if you're asking a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

USA. Please don't go away. We are going to be going into our first commercial break.

And by the way, the email address to send a question for Chris Mueller is ChrisOrenson at gmail .com,

ChrisOrenson at gmail .com. We'll be right back. Yeah, back together again.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the

G3 National Conference. That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd.

On a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

Back together again. And there's more great news. Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 % discount off the registration fee.

Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo code

G3ISIR. That's G3ISIR for the 30 % discount.

Chris Arnson and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the

G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God. Make sure you stop by the

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor Booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 % discount off the registration fee.

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So go to royaldiadem .com soon and mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Trip and Zion Radio. We're now back with our guest today,

Pastor Chris Mueller of Faith Bible Church of Murrieta, California, who is also one of the speakers at the upcoming 2023

G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia. We are discussing God's shocking answer to the gender crisis.

And our email address, if you have a question, is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

We have an anonymous listener who says, How do we approach this situation when we have people visiting a church and confessing that they are homosexuals or same -sex attracted persons?

Do we tell them that you must completely repent of not only the activity but even the attraction in order to be a genuine

Christian? Or are there truly born -again believers that may battle this same -sex attraction for the rest of their lives?

Pastor Mueller, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Did you hear the question? I did.

Okay. So, you know, interesting enough, obviously,

I believe that we should be as loving and kind and gracious as we possibly can be, and yet at the same time, to be as truthful and direct and uncompromising.

So, I base that upon Jesus being described in John 1 as full of grace and truth.

So, we want to speak the truth, but we want to do so graciously. We want to be gracious, but we want to speak the truth.

So, in the way in which we address issues of salvation, that's really what the debate was that you were bringing up with Dr.

White that's coming up. It's pretty clear in Scripture in 1 Corinthians 6 that those who are effeminate, those who live a lifestyle of homosexuality, are not going to inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul could not be clearer that that is an issue requiring repentance.

The issue of people who battle and struggle with same -sex attraction, that is really a secondary issue.

If they have humbly come under the gospel of Jesus Christ, they have turned from their sin.

They have put their faith in Jesus Christ. They believe that he is the one who has, in a sense, opened their heart to be able to even do that.

And so, they've embraced him by saying, he's the one that I love.

He's my first love. He's the one that I want to pursue. That there's nothing more important to me than Jesus Christ. Then, all those kind of affections and attractions, etc.,

are going to be curbed under the word of God and the spirit of God. They still might be present. We all have sin bent.

They still may struggle with that, but they're not going to pursue it.

They're going to realize and know that that's a lifestyle that they no longer embrace.

And that that's a thinking and a feeling that God is going to, you know, help them to squash.

But it's going to be a battle. It's not going to be my battle. Probably not going to be your battle. But it's going to be many people's battles who come out of that lifestyle.

And they're going to be fruitful and successful in that battle. So, yes, there's going to be struggle, but they're going to be able to repent.

They're going to be able to turn from it, and they're going to be able to find a measure of victory. And in time, maybe even those feelings and thoughts will go away.

They may not, but they may. You know, we understand that Christians are redeemed, but we're not perfect until we get to heaven.

There's going to be battles with sin. Luther said that, you know, the birds can fly over. They don't have to build a nest in your hair.

Temptations are going to come. But how we respond to them is going to show whether we're actually regenerate, that we actually indwelt with the

Spirit of God, that we have the ability in which to turn from our sin. And so in these kind of situations where there is that desire and struggle, there's going to be sovereign power.

There's going to be the ability to rely on the Spirit to which to curb those issues. But they may not totally go away.

Just as Abraham had difficulty controlling his deception, David had difficulty controlling his lust,

Peter had trouble controlling his mouth. There's going to be struggles that we're going to have up until we get to heaven's door.

And being aware of that and being in the fight is going to be the issue. And God says no temptation is going to overtake you except for which is common to man.

And he's going to give us the ability in which to resist those things. And so that's what

I would say to someone. Yes, they're going to turn from their sin. They're not going to pursue that lifestyle. But they may have lingering feelings.

They may have struggles. And being aware of that, they're going to take, you know, the proper steps.

An alcoholic is typically not going to go, someone who's given over to drunkenness, is not going to go back into a bar.

They're just not going to do that because they know that it's too much of a temptation. And so there's going to be steps that are going to be taken in which to deal with that.

But that's ultimately not what's going to solve the gender crisis. The gender crisis is going to be solved within the context of the church.

Just some clarifications on that. There is a segment of society, a segment of the professed church, just as I mentioned before the commercial break, who are so dominated, it seems, by this same -sex attraction, which we do have to differentiate it from the heterosexual lust, because it appears to me that heterosexual lust, although a sin, and even a damning sin, if it's not covered by the blood of Christ, as all sin is damning, no matter how insignificant we think it is, without the blood of Christ, it will send you to the pits of hell for eternity.

But there is something different in that homosexuality is against nature.

It's unnatural. And so that's where perhaps the confusion comes in, or the uncertainty about this issue, because one wonders, if a person is a new creature in Christ, and they are indwelt by the

Holy Spirit, and they are living in obedience to Christ as best as a human can on this planet, while they are still alive, why is it that, and does

God allow somebody for decades, perhaps even for the majority of their lives until they die, to have a strong and exclusively same -sex attraction?

Why would God not deliver them from that? Because it is, as I said, not a heterosexual sin, which is a misuse of a gift.

I think that attraction to the opposite sex is a gift from God, only to be enjoyed and brought to fruition in a marriage between a man and a woman.

But people abuse and twist this gift, where they fantasize about people that are not their wife, they commit adultery, or if they're not married, they fornicate.

These are all sins, and damnable ones, without the blood of Christ. But is there not a difference between that and an unnatural sin like homosexuality?

Well, of course there is a difference. It's a whole level beyond lust.

Again, Romans 1, in God's judgment of a society and a people, it's going to be that he gives them over to lust, and that lust is going to grow uncontrolled, and it's going to lead to homosexuality and lesbianism.

And it is a different level of corruption, a different level of fallenness.

It's a serious state to be in, and therefore, there are people, though, who do repent.

They find a new life in Christ. Some, to some degree, are delivered from that same -sex attraction, the mental and emotional drive that goes on through their life, and others are battled with it.

The issue is, you know, are they going to depend upon the Lord and walk in obedience to his word?

And to curb those thoughts, like Philippians 4, 8, are they going to think about what's true, what's right, what's honorable, what is of good repute, anything worthy of praise?

Let your mind dwell on those things. They're going to be in the mental battle, and they're going to see

God and his Spirit give them a measure of victory through that process. I think this overwhelmingness of that sin may be an indication that they're not born again, because God is going to deliver them to some degree, though it may not completely go away.

They're going to have to be cautious, they're going to have to be wary, and take correct steps to make sure that they don't walk down that road again or allow their mind to go down paths that should not go down.

So, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I believe that God does deliver some.

I think that there are others, and like the rest of us, have particular bents that we will constantly have to depend upon the

Lord and rely upon him in order to have a measure of victory in our lives. And I think that's true of almost every

Christian to some degree, that we have to rely on him to overcome these propensities or weaknesses in our life.

And I'm not saying that it is different, and I think it's more intense for the homosexual, but it is definitely the same as far as sanctification and being able to pursue

Christ as well as flee sin and to do that by the power of the Spirit. They can't do it on their own strength, no one can.

It's got to be reliant upon the Spirit of God and the Word of God and walking in a dependent obedience upon him.

And therefore, that's when they're going to find some measure of victory. But again, this is just the indicator of the problem.

The solution is going to be found in the church. It's going to be, you know, we can vote, we can be vocal, we can extol biblical men and women to anyone who will listen, we can celebrate

God's clear design, and we need to. Solid marriages are an incredible testimony and witness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

It's something that the world has no idea and no understanding of how good that can be, as well as the church of Jesus Christ, that we should be one as he and the

Father are one. There's an element of the high priestly prayer where Jesus lays out an expectation for the church family to have such incredible relationships with one another that the lost look at us and go, we want to be a part of that.

And that's a part of the big answer. And the first answer, really, in the crisis is that we proclaim it.

And I find this in Titus chapter 1, where Paul talks with Titus, and he teaches him that I want you to appoint elders.

Titus wasn't really a pastor. He was a missionary church planter. When you read the end of Titus, he was going to be sent and join

Paul within six months. He's not there to stay, but he's there to appoint elders. And in those elderships, there will be preachers, pastor teachers, who are going to proclaim

God's word and really give us an understanding of what God's design is.

And what we have today is churches that are not preaching God's word concerning gender. They're embarrassed.

They're afraid. And because of that, we're finding that less and less people even understand why there's a gender crisis.

What we need is qualified men, and in those qualified men, they're supposed to be Titus 1 -9, holding fast the faithful word, which is in accordance with the teachings, so that he may be able to exhort in sound doctrine and refute those who contradict.

And basically what he's saying is to hold fast the faithful word is that these elders, pastors, and pastor teachers are supposed to refuse to let go of the author's intended message.

They're to draw out or exposit what God meant by what God said. And so that they'll be able to exhort in sound doctrine.

Sound, the word sound is where we get our word healthy. It's healthy doctrine. Healthy doctrine is that which makes you more like Christ.

And that's what has to happen within the context of our churches. The challenge of 2

Timothy 4 -2, Preach the word, be ready in season and out of season, rebuke, reprove, exhort with great patience and instructions, or they will come that day when they will not endure sound doctrine.

And they will not endure healthy doctrine. What's amazing about this challenge, about teaching the word, making sure that people hear the truth.

Honestly, Chris, how many pulpits have you heard? Wives submit and women become workers at home.

That's right out of Titus chapter 2, but it's not heard of in our pulpits today.

We're embarrassed to say it five times in the scripture. It says women are to submit to their husbands.

Now it's in the middle voice. They submit themselves. It's not something that men do, but it is definitely they're ranking themselves under.

It's a military term. They come under the leadership of their husband. And men are to be the heads of their homes.

And it's not a wish that they would be, could be, should be. It's indicative mood.

It's basically a statement of fact. They are the head. The only question is, are they a biblical head, a servant leader, one who loves his wife, one who's one with his wife, one who adores his bride, or is it a guy who's just bumping off leadership statements and saying, you know, do what

I say instead of let's do what Christ wants. Let's do what he says. So the real thing that has to happen within the context of the church to solve this crisis is we've got to be preaching the word, teaching the word on God's design for men and women.

We're not going to get clarity even on the homosexual movement until we understand what did God design.

What you have in Ephesians, what you have in Colossians is this incredible description of the role of men, the role of women, and oneness in marriage.

And it's something that emulates the Trinity to some degree, and it is fantastic the way

God designed it. And we're not extolling that. We're not having our marriages be all that they're supposed to be.

And men aren't fulfilling their design. By the way, we have to pick up right where you left off because we have to go to our midway break.

Not a problem. And please remember where you left off, that the pulpits globally are sadly inadequate in their making it clear what

God has designed men and women to be. We have to go to this midway break.

Please be patient with us, folks, because it's always in the middle of the show. The break is a bit longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us to have a longer break in the middle of the show because the

FCC requires of them to use the middle of our break to localize geographically this program to Lake City, Florida, and they do so with their own public service announcements while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So please be patient with us, and we'll be right back. Don't go away. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia, again for the

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God's Shocking Answer to the Gender Crisis. chrisarnson at gmail .com Give us a first name at least city and state and country of residence and only remain anonymous if your question is personal and private.

Your comments before the break Pastor Chris reminded me of a wedding or should

I say every wedding that I attended at the former church where I was a member on Long Island Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick I haven't been to any weddings at the church where I am currently a member after relocating to Pennsylvania Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle but at my former church whenever there was a wedding

I could immediately tell when a couple were visiting were visiting for the wedding itself because you would see whenever the pastor would give the charge to the wife to be submissive to her husband you would see the the angry looks on women whispering angrily into their husband's ears so it is interesting how you can tell who's a visitor during those circumstances the reasons that you gave or the examples that you gave as an answer to the gender crisis why are they shocking?

Well they're shocking because when we get to the last two you'll find that they're very much not practiced and so as a result of that it's a little bit shocking because we tend to marginally commit ourselves to proclaiming

God's word in its entirety concerning the role of men and women in God's perfect design but we don't necessarily follow it up with the other requirements that are actually found within the context of the scripture so you know

Titus is very clear as he lays out the Apostle Paul to Titus when he says make sure these men are teaching this sound doctrine that's coming from the text and he immediately launches into in chapter 2 what that sound doctrine is in chapter 2 verse 1 he says this sound doctrine and then he lays out the expectations for older men older women younger women and younger men in the context of the church which is part of the sound doctrine which would then glorify

God make you like Christ and do exactly what Christ has called you to do the Cretans were having a really hard time putting their beliefs into practice so there's six charges to manifest good deeds they were really having a hard time because they lived in a very corrupt culture not just ours as bad but their culture was lazy it was perverse

Paul even describes it as being always liars evil beasts lazy gluttons all true and he says for this reason reprove them severely so they may be sound again healthy in the faith and so he charges them in chapter 2 to live out your doctrine by living out

God's design and I like to focus on God's design for men and then God's design for women which is somewhat shocking today because it feels very traditional but it's actually very biblical the man is to be the head of the home a biblical head is someone who's responsible they're engaged in what their family is doing they're not just coaching from a distance so to speak they're on the field with them they're initiating servant leadership they're seeking to have their family their wife their children all honor

Christ all under the word all functioning together all loving and also serving one another he does some really strong exhortations throughout the context of the

New Testament concerning men and women in 1st Timothy chapter 2 are to lead their homes men are to lead

Christ's church and then he says in Titus 2, 6 that men are to be sensible and then he includes

Titus in his exhortation and all things to show yourself to be an example of good deeds purity in doctrine again dignified sound in speech which is beyond reproach men are to be sensible meaning thinking men men who live life through the lens of scripture they set goals and then pursue them they're guiding their families in a not an emotional way not in a popular way but in a biblical way they're an example of good deeds they basically can tell their wife and kids follow me as I follow

Christ they're pure in doctrine which means they're allowing the text of scripture to drive their doctrine they're allowing the author's intended message to drive their understanding of what's true about God they're not molding business ideas in or psychological concepts or even maybe poor parenting that they receive from their own parents but according to the scripture and men are to be socially dignified which means that they're men who are responsible and respectful and representatives of Christ and then visually sound in doctrine or sound in speech they're to be those who are healthy in what they say like Ephesians 4 29 let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth so all those things are being systematically dismantled by our media by our society men are made out to be fools misogynists macho archaically traditional instead of just saying

I want to be a biblical man I want to reflect God's character I want to be someone who is one with my spouse and yet also functioning in the way that God designed but if you really want to step on somebody's toes the preacher's got to walk through just like you said

Chris in a wedding ceremony they've got to walk through God's design for women and if you want to get a reaction or you want to get persecuted or you want to really see where people are at then just teach this through now if you're a single gal or a single guy the bible's pretty clear first corinthians 7 35 you're to secure undistracted devotion to the lord but from genesis 1 we find out that at the very get -go the lord said it's not good for man to be alone

I'll make him a helper and helper is actually not a demeaning term it's most often used of God himself as our helper it's a very dignified and come alongside and do this together but we do find that there are distinctions in both old and new testament between men and women in first timothy chapter 2 verses 11 through 15 call women in the worship service not to exercise authority over men but to remain quiet and he uses the actually the events of creation and the events of the fall to actually justify and to clarify what he means added to that I already mentioned that five times total in new testament women are to submit themselves under the headship of their husbands to rank themselves under as if they're in the military follow their loving servant leadership and then he says things that are just a powder cake of truth in verse 4 of titus 2 so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands love their children both that love there are not agape but it's phileo it's to like your husband like your children with a deep affection and commitment and relationship to be sensible to be thinking women to be pure and in this context he's talking about moral purity then that word purity is moral purity with all the freedom that christianity brought to women in the first century they were not to go about or to be unfaithful to their husbands as they ministered home to home and then he says right in the middle of all this love your husband love your children right in the middle of after be kind and subject to your husbands is be a worker at home domestically a wife is to be a worker at home now this is shocking this is a painful reality with so many women working etc it comes from true greek words that are somewhat shocking and that is it comes from to work and at home and so therefore her heart is not to focus on a career but her home where she does her work primarily is to be an efficient homemaker socially she's to be kind loving the saints and mercifully caring for those who are not in christ and spiritually she's to submit to her husband again first corinthians eleven three after the incarnation of christ the son submitted to the father and paul uses that he says i want you to understand that christ is the head of every man and the man is the head of the woman and god is the head of christ and submission can't be demeaning if christ submitted to the father after the incarnation some people have never heard that from a pulpit and this is the next generation now when i was the college pastor of grace community church a long time ago when dinosaurs still roamed on the earth i taught the collegians i was the college pastor for four and a half years and they were struggling with this idea of what god's design was for men and women they had you know not exactly the correct view and so the lord led me to titus chapter 2 i walked through that we called it let the men let the women be women let the men be men and they drank it up they just went crazy for wanting to be what god wanted them to be listen if you're regenerate then you have a heart that wants to obey roman 6 17 you want to obey the scripture you want to follow god's design so therefore we've got to have pulpits that are clearly laying out god's design unapologetically in fact that series was so remarkable that now three years ago one of the collegians has become a publisher came to me and said i want you to write two books and we wrote two books let the men be men let the women be women that lay this out much more detail than i could ever do in a broadcast that talk through god's design for men and god's design for women god's design for manhood and marriage and god's design for womanhood and marriage and so it's it's designed for junior high high school college young marriage and basically it's to help them to understand and they need a marker to go to go and pursue what god has designed the rub is if we're really preaching god's design if that were all that was needed paul wouldn't have added this phrase look what he says in titus chapter 2 verse 4 he says these older women will live out their design as god laid it out for them in order that the older women would encourage the younger women the

ESV would say train the new king james version would say admonish you have this focus of training within the context of the church now he lays out the expectation that elders would be preaching the word but the second major element and why this is asked is a crisis is that it's not happening that it is absolutely essential that the older generation disciple the next generation into god's design that's the second main point the second key and that's found right here that older women train the younger and i believe i did my doctoral thesis on discipleship and training and i believe that this is a reflection of matthew 28 and making disciples that we are to have intentional relationships for the purpose of growth the purpose of the gospel that people come to christ and the purpose of growth in christ so that they would then go home in christ and ultimately they would be impacted and that's what's missing in most churches or what they do is they say well this is the group that disciples or we have discipleship in the context of our young people but this is when jesus perpetuated and called the church to be disciple making he said make disciples going baptizing and teach them to obey all that i commanded you and he said do this unto the end of the age and we are not at the end of the age therefore this is a part of that process the word disciples disappears and doesn't after acts 21 it doesn't appear in the epistles and the reason for that is because as christ discipled his men now the body of christ disciples his men his women we are to have women ministering to women men ministering to men it is to be in this process of teaching them to obey all that i've commanded you and he's commanded us to do this sound doctrine investment that men would become men and women would become women we need discipleship we need investment we need relationship like paul said we gave you our very lives we just didn't preach at you we extended our lives we need to get alongside come alongside people and mentor them disciple them have a friendship with them to help them to become the men that god designed them to be i've been training guys for 44 years and that's layman not just seminary men but layman we have a seminary extension at our church from the master seminary we train our seminarians well but our layman need to be trained by older godly men who come alongside of them and show them what it means to be a man how what it means that i mean on the just on a basic level of social you know niceties you know how to shake a hand how to look a guy in the eye but it also means living by the scripture in every way dealing with sin in every way figuring out exactly how you proceed and represent christ in every given situation understand certain parachurches ministries have kind of warped us in our understanding of discipleship discipleship is plural the going baptizing and teaching of matthew 28 is plural the older women taking the younger women is plural it's it's all women ministering to women not necessarily a one -on -one arrangement the downside to one -on -one investment in discipleship is that they become like you and not christ the upside of it is that it really offers a lot of teeth and accountability and investment so honestly chris you probably say this i know i would say this i've had men invest into my life i had significant men investing in my life but it's always typically been more than one man there's been multiple people who've impacted me and that's part of what discipleship is it's this relational investment the word disciple means learner and follower and and it's someone who's i want to be a follower of christ we're helping them to become like christ we're helping them to become that what god intended them to be and so therefore even in parenting i know this may be radical for some people to hear there really is no new testament verb for parenting it's what god is expecting what christ is expecting of you you disciple your children you come alongside you invest in them you're constantly constantly reiterating the word of god you're teaching the word but you're showing them the word you're showing them how and investing into them iron sharpens iron gee that sounds like a great name for a podcast uh so that one man sharpens another that's what he's talking about listen iron sharpens iron but now about heat and sparks man you're you're working at it it doesn't always work right but you're going after it second divinity two two you're training faithful men first peter five five younger men are to be subject to your elders uh the older men of verse two are to disciple i believe and invest in the younger men of verses six through eight in titus two and there therefore if a family and a church is going to see the next generation really have spirit -filled males and spirit -filled females they need to be taught the word unapologetically walking through proverbs 31 walking through colossians walking through ephesians five walking through first peter for all the passages first peter three that deal with the roles of men and women very clearly laying it out unapologetically and then there needs to be discipleship that comes alongside that older men are mentoring younger women now here's the problem we're getting no reinforcement from anywhere there's no schooling no society no issues no media nothing it's all going to have to be in the church and if we don't do it it's going to fail that's where the crisis comes in because there's no more there's no more accepting of our you know basically christian worldview and so therefore this has all been slammed angered at opposed minimized so titus teaches there must be preaching in titus one there must also be discipleship and titus two and i don't know chris if you want me to go to the third i think there's a third one and that's training it's not just that we have relationship it's not just that we have and we must the tip of the spear is preaching it's that it's got to be laid out it's got to be clear it's got to be unapologetic but there's got to be that coming alongside just like paul came alongside follow me as i follow christ extending my very life to you giving you my life talking about how i'm applying the scripture showing you how to do that but along with this relational discipleship titus two talks about training this older women training the newer and and he gives them the curriculum he says love your husbands love your children and be a worker at home well it's not just telling them to do it you're going to have to show them how and so the training element is actually showing someone how to live the truth out before you tune out understand there are a lot of parents maybe who are listening to your program that that told their children okay we're gonna we're gonna tell you how to drive you're going to memorize the drive and but they showed him how to drive right they got in the car with them they just didn't let him drive you made him practice before you hand of the keys of the car you're making sure they're ready to go so you practice it how many how many wise dads have take their daughters out on dates so that they know how they will be treated and how they should be treated and how many moms have taken their sons out so later on when there is a relationship they learn how to act they practice it how many coaches make their players yes memorize the playbook watch films but they practice on the field over and over again that's what part of parenting is that's what the local church has got to buy into we we need to do this

John Calvin walked around Geneva with pastors he was training he showed them how to pastor he didn't just tell him they didn't just teach him he showed them

Luther had his table talks walking through how this is done and Jesus did it himself he showed everything he said was true we we we also believe that everything he did was the best and what he did in March chapter six is he sent his men out two by two they went out they practice ministry and when you drop back into Mark chapter 6 and chapter 6 verse 30 not only did they mark chapter 6 verse 7 sent him out two by two but when they came back at verse 30 they gathered together with Jesus and they reported to him all that they had done and all that they had taught he trained them by making them practice he did a debrief with them after his time with them and this is

I believe what Paul's calling for he's calling for the word to be taught the tip of the spirit he's talking for the discipleship in this investment and relationship to occurring in the lives of individuals this is a normative for the church it shouldn't be the exception this is the great commandment and the

Great Commission at work in the context of the church loving relationship with the and then making disciples that they're going to baptizing and teaching them to obey all that commanded they're coming under the authority of the word of God in every aspect of their lives teaching them to obey all

I've commanded and then they're being shown and made to practice the role of men and the role of women they're not going to get it no young man and no young women walk down the marriage aisle and then the moment they say

I do becomes the ultimate husband and the ultimate wife it should just doesn't happen they have to be trained in that and they're getting zero input from our society and so therefore

I think Christ trained as men we should train our men we need to give them the skills of that again if you're going to a church where there's no solid doctrine there's no solid expositional preaching you got to find another church because that without that there's no foundation at all but built upon that is where we're missing it we're missing the element of discipleship and we're context of the church and in the world and we're missing the element of actually training our young men and women how to be men and how to be women we got to show them the skills and elevate that so that they would do that well and honor

Christ and glorify him and all of that I was mentored by John McArthur and he told me that in the boxing world there's a one -two punch and in the ministry world there's a one -two punch you preach the word and you train men and we're missing the element what

I think we got to be about that process and the church has got to pick up the mantle and I have men after men after men talking to me about training because we do a lot of training in our church we're a training church and I'm telling you it's any efforts that are made in this direction are good efforts we've got to get alongside our men show them teach them and train them now we got to we got to teach them and show them and train them so that those three things have to happen within the context otherwise this crisis is never going to flip around we're just going to find that slow but sure the world's going to win out and that's that's really the crisis that that I wanted to share with you today just that that that issue must happen

I'm sure you've got questions yes we have BB in Cumberland County Pennsylvania who says

I agree with you ninety -nine point nine nine nine percent but want some clarification the description that we have of the

Proverbs thirty -one woman includes things like she buys land and sells it and is obviously involved in some kind of business fashion that is not necessarily within the confines of a home and we have

Lydia the seller of purple who is obviously making a living selling very expensive cloth how does that jive with the

Betty Crocker stereotype of a woman and I don't mean any disrespect to Betty Crocker well as long as she doesn't mean any disrespect to the scripture because I don't really care what

I say I only care what God says and so you know being a worker at home doesn't really address that issue of whether you do you work outside of that do you make efforts to earn money within the context of your home do you have home you know crafts and home businesses we have very industrious women at our church that have a lot going on they're very busy and but their home is their priority and really what you're finding here even when

Paul talks to Timothy about widows and first Timothy five he says get those women to remarry and have them be and he uses the you know the term home despot the home ruler this is their sphere listen

I am not in any way demeaning women at all we are women at our church are impactful for the kingdom they minister to our women we have our women minister to our women they know how to do it better than anybody we have women meeting women in parks and evangelistically and we have women training women and raising their young ones and we have a lot going on we have a lot of gals that have a lot of business sense and we do have working wives of older kids you know they're in those early formative years but they're still home when their kids are home and they're still investing into their end of their home and their husbands and they're making sure that their home is is their priority the issue is is where's your heart and there's nothing wrong with being an industrious woman man proverbs 31 proves that point so we want industrious women we want we don't want lazy women we want women who work hard and they work hard for Christ they work dependently upon the spirit of God according to the word of God and they're trying to accomplish everything they can for his glory so I'm we don't we don't have we don't divide those kind of lines it's where's your heart at and are you investing into your kids and again it's very difficult for a mom with young ones to be working outside the home because otherwise then you're giving up your motherly responsibilities to those really young ones to you know some sitter or some relative or whatever that's that's your job and so you know we we don't give an age breakdown we don't talk about that but we just say where's your heart are you going to you know pursue this and are you going to see

God bless it and and we do and we have Cindy I will ask you

Cindy's question and I'll have you answer it when we return from our final break we have Cindy Cindy in Findlay Ohio you stated and many in the church agree myself included that our country is under the judgment of God as explained in Romans 1 other than the sin of abortion what do you think has brought this judgment upon us is it sin within the church is it sin in society as a whole or a combination of the two and I'll have you answer that when we return we're going to our final break right now if anybody has any questions that they'd like to also ask please send them immediately because we're wrapping rapidly running out of time

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

give us your first name at least city and state and country of residence don't go away we'll be right back James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta Georgia again for the

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That's liyfc .org. Welcome back.

Pastor Chris, Cindy in Findlay, Ohio asked you, and I'm assuming it was based largely upon the discussion on homosexuality, why is this country, in your opinion, under judgment, this nation?

Well, our country experienced really decades and decades of unusual blessing because of the respect for biblical truth that was established at the very beginning of its founding and for almost,

I don't know, 150 plus years. But that's no longer the case, and they have drifted from God's design and are now absolutely opposed to biblical truth.

And therefore, God has let them over to lust and then to homosexuality and now to a depraved mind.

As far as the church is concerned, I would say that we are responsible as well because we have allowed the church to move away from a solid gospel that is completely by grace, through faith in Christ, that there is a gospel that doesn't just justify you and make you righteous because of the work of Christ on your behalf and his death and resurrection, but also he regenerates, he transforms and causes people to have new hearts, that all things become new and they want to follow him, they want to obey him,

Romans 6 -17. And therefore, we've really moved away from that transformational regeneration kind of gospel, that weak gospel.

We don't teach the word in the churches today. We're understanding what God meant by what

God said when God said it through his chosen apostles and prophets, and we're not discipling.

We're not coming alongside and actually mentoring and having the kind of community that actually demonstrates the oneness of God and in our relationships, really glorifying him.

And we're not training. We're not doing a good job of that as well. So, all those things would lead me to say this is why we're seeing the decline, and the thing that has to happen is the church has to step up.

And that's really the light and salt that God has given, he's put into place. And it doesn't matter where the society goes, doesn't matter where governments go, the church is going to always be the church, and it's going to be the beacon of God's ministry throughout the context of the world as well as in our own country.

So, that's really my answer to that question. It's both. And obviously, my passion would be that we would teach the word, disciple men, and train them.

And the key is that we're going to hand the keys to the next generation. No question. They're going to get it.

We're going to die. If the Lord tarries, we're going to pass on, and they're going to be running the show.

The question is, are we going to hand the keys to them, or are they going to pry them out of our cold, dead hand? The issue is, is are we going to pass on the truth, and help them, and come alongside them, and have them be all that God intends them to be?

And so, in fact, my job, my desire, even as a parent, is that my sons would exceed me in their investment for the kingdom, and that my church would actually exceed what

I've experienced with them, and go beyond that. You know, as Paul exhorted the churches to excel still more in these areas of love, and outreach, and the gospel, and the word, etc.

So we have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York. Time for a final question.

I heard earlier Chris Arnzen announce a debate that may be coming up, where a person identifies themselves as a gay

Christian. Is that ever a proper thing to do, to identify yourself as a part of the body of Christ according to a sin that you struggle with?

Yeah, I think that if you want to go announce and say, well, I'm a drunkard

Christian, or I'm a, you know, proud Christian, it's kind of an oxymoron.

It's if you're a Christian, you have been changed, transformed, and you want what

God wants. You desire to follow his word, you desire to obey his word, and therefore you're not going to want to call yourself a gay

Christian. You've repented of that. You've turned from that. They turned from idols to God.

They've turned from their sin to follow Christ. It's not something that you're identifying with.

You're now identifying with Christ, and what he wants, and not what you used to be, and not what you were.

So you calling yourself a gay Christian is saying, well, I'm still gay. You're not still gay, and plus,

I don't like that word gay anyway. So you're not still homosexual. You're not. You've repented. You say, I'm not that way anymore.

Otherwise, you didn't come to Christ according to 1 Corinthians chapter 6 verses 9 -11. So therefore, you don't want to tag on that level of label because it's identifying yourself with your past.

It's something that you should want to have put aside that you're literally ashamed of, in a sense, because we're all ashamed of our sin when we come to the cross, and we're saying,

I don't want that. I'm broken under my sin. I mourn, as the

Beatitudes say. I'm broken under that. I hate my sin, and therefore, I want to be what

Christ wants me to be. All right, well, we're out of time, and I want to make sure that I announce the websites that are relevant to my guest today,

Chris Mueller. The church where he pastors is faith -bible .net.

faith -bible .net, and that's Faith Bible Church of Marietta, California.

Also, don't forget about the G3 Conference, where he will be on the very long speaking roster.

G3men .org is the website where you can find out more about that and register as well. G3men .org,

and don't forget to use the promo code G3ISIR, which is the promo code for Iron Triple Zion Radio.

G3ISIR. That will get you 30 % off the registration fee for the

G3 Conference, which is September 21st through the 23rd in Atlanta, Georgia, on the sovereignty of God.

Well, thank you so much, Pastor Chris. You've been a remarkable guest. I look forward to you returning to the show. I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write.

I want you all to always remember, for the rest of your lives, that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.