July 10, 2023 Show with Chris Mueller on “God’s Shocking Answer to the Gender Crisis”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson, 19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today. Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better. It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all happy Monday on this 10th day of July 2023, and I'm thrilled to have a first-time guest today to discuss a vital subject.

His name is Chris Mueller, preaching minister and elder at Faith Bible Church of Marietta, California, and he's also one of the many speakers at the upcoming 2023 G3 National Conference. Today, we're going to be addressing God's shocking answer to the gender crisis, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Chris Mueller.

Chris, it's great to be here. It's an honor. Just really thrilled to be able to be with you and to be with your listening audience as well as to talk through these issues.

Amen, and have I pronounced your name correctly, Mueller?

Yes, sir, that's what it is.

And is it Marietta, California?

It is Marietta. We're a church right now establishing a place in Wildomar, which is right next to Marietta, but we're about 20 years of set-up, take-down church, and we're about to move on property right now by the 15 freeway in Wildomar.

And tell our listeners more about this congregation, including your theological stance and that kind of thing.

Well, my roots are from Grace Community Church, and most of our elders have had either exposure or come from Grace Community, where John MacArthur is the senior pastor. Our doctrine and approach to Scripture would almost be identical, where we're trying to honor the author's intended message of God's Word and draw our doctrine out of the text.

And so we have just unapologetically continued to remain true to that particular stance of Scripture. So we would be Reformed, we would be premillennial, we would be definitely those who would not burp and go on when we approach a difficult issue, but we actually try to deal with all of what the Scripture says on everything.

And so it is our guidepost, it's our light, our lamp, and we revolve around that, and of course pursuing becoming like Jesus Christ in every way we possibly can, to be light and salt on a hill, and to be a congregation that truly reaches out to our community with the love and the gospel message of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

If anybody wants to learn more about Faith Bible Church of Marietta, California, go to faith-bible .net, faith-bible .net. And tell us about exactly what you will be speaking on, if you even know it yet.

I know that very often the speakers at the G3 conference don't know until right before the conference what they're speaking on. But the G3 conference is my favorite of all conferences. I've been manning an exhibitors booth there for Iron Trip and Zion Radio every year for quite a number of years.

I believe I may have started when they had their first national conference outside of Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglaston, Georgia, and when they were at the conference hall there, or convention center, in Atlanta near the Atlanta airport.

But I've been enjoying that every time they have that conference. I'm amazed at how many people, dozens and dozens of people, come up to me whom I have never heard from before to encourage me about how much they love my show, Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

And I've also made valuable new connections and friendships there. But the theme is the sovereignty of God. Can't think of a better theme than that. The conference will be held Thursday, September 21st through Saturday, September 23rd in Atlanta.

And I have a wonderful discount, a huge discount for everybody listening, which I will mention to you momentarily using the Iron Trip and Zion Radio discount code if you register for this conference. But tell us about your job there at the upcoming Sovereignty of God conference.

Well, this will be the second time that I've been to G3, and I was invited with a group of men from the Master's Fellowship and the Master's Seminary and College to come and do a pre-conference. So we were able to minister to some of the folks prior to the G3 conference itself.

I was overwhelmed by the number of people that come to G3. It was a delightful time meeting up with brothers and sisters, some whom I know, many who I did not. And so it was a thrill. And so Josh Busey is a wonderful man of God, and he's taken the risk of having me come back and do a breakout session this year.

And it will be seemed around what he desired was that I would talk about gender issues, but that I would also render some discussion on discipleship and training in the context of dealing with the gender crisis.

So that's why it's actually what we're talking about today would be what we're going to be talking about at G3, the shocking answer to the gender crisis.

Now, did you say Gary Busey is going to be there? I'm only kidding.

Did I say that? I said Josh. Didn't I say Josh?

Yes. I was just kidding you because you actually made me feel better because I mispronounced the city where Praise Mill Baptist Church is. It's Douglasville, Georgia, not Douglaston. Sorry about that, Praise Mill Baptist Church.

But you mispronounced Josh's last name. It's Bice, even though it's spelled like it should be Busey.

Oh, my goodness.

Okay.

Well, that's great.

He was going to redeem that last name. So I'm glad to hear that. So thank you for the clarification.

Okay. And folks, if you want to find out more about this conference, go to g3min .org, G -3-M-I-N, an abbreviation for ministries, G3-M-I-N .org. Click on events. And when you register, if you use the promo code for Iron Trump and Zion Radio, which is G3-I-S-I-R, you will get 30 off the registration fee.

So I strongly urge you to write that down so you don't forget. And I strongly urge you to register as soon as possible. They are expecting the largest crowd ever in the history of the G3 conferences, 8 ,500 people or more.

And I've never been to a conference that large. I believe the last G3 conference was just a little over 6 ,000, maybe approaching 7 ,000. But I've never been to an event where there or at least a Bible conference where there are 8 ,500 people.

And so go to g3min .org and use the promo code G3-I-S-I-R, G3-I-S-I-R. And this conference, as it always does, has a mind-blowing roster of speakers. Not only will you have Josh Bice, the founder of G3 Ministries, speaking.

And by the way, he is absolutely an extraordinary preacher. Vodie Baucom will be speaking there. Steve Lawson, Paul Washer, Phil Johnson, executive director of John MacArthur's Grace to You Ministries.

My dear friend of many years, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Mike Riccardi, who is on the faculty at the Master's Seminary. Justin Peters, who's been on this program many times. Ken Ham, who has been on this program and is also coming back to Iron Trip and Zion.

Radio.

And you might want to mark your calendars for this. Tuesday, July 25th, Ken Ham will be returning to Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Owen Strand, who I've grown to know and love and have interviewed him and I love hearing him preach.

I have had the opportunity to do that at a number of conferences. James Coates, who is that renowned pastor in Canada that was arrested for refusing to shut down the church where he pastors during the COVID crisis.

Scott Anial, Virgil Walker, Daryl Harrison, both of whom I love and have interviewed many times on this program. Scott Brown, who I have interviewed as well. Looking forward to having him back. As I said, the aforementioned Chris Mueller, who's on our program today.

Carl Hargrove, Tom Buck, Harry Walls, Nathan Bucinitz. And for the ladies, Susan Heck, who's been on this broadcast. So please go to g3men .org, click on events. And when you register, use promo code G3ISIR for 30 off the registration fee.

Well, we have a custom here, a tradition on Iron Trip and Zion Radio. Pastor Chris, whenever we have a first time guest such as yourself, we have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which they were raised and what kind of providential circumstances, our sovereign Lord has raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

So we'd love to hear a summary of your story.

Well, I came to know Christ as a result of the Jesus movement that occurred in the late 60s, early 70s in California and really across the nation. It was my brother and sister, there's three of us, who came to Christ through that movement and really radically changed the nature of our home.

There were arguments and disagreements. There was discussions about religious leaders who appeared to be criminal in their approaches. And there was all kinds of difficulty and tension. We came from an agnostic home.

My parents were not opposed to the idea of God, but they were not going to want us to walk down the road of some sort of church or etc. And interesting enough, I was the last to come around in my family because I rebelled in my junior high and high school years.

And my parents saw such a change, even though they disagreed with my brother and sister, they saw such a significant change in their lives. They said, well, we better take the youngest one to church to straighten him out.

So they ended up at a Dutch Reformed church in Buena Park, California, and they came to Christ. First, my mom and then my dad, and then they started praying for me. So I think they had the entire church praying for me.

And in that process, I was awakened to the reality of the stupidness of this world and all that it had to offer. And even though I went to church, I wasn't a Christian until about the end of my senior year.

And the Lord brought me to a point of genuine repentance and turned from my sin and followed Christ at that point. Immediately got involved in student ministry, working with the junior high and Youth for Christ Campus Life.

I also began to attend my summers at human Christian camps, got exposed to a different level of Christendom where the Bible teaching was really at a much higher level and really awakened my heart and soul and desire to begin to pursue that.

And through that course of action and weird circumstances, Grace Church had need of a junior high pastor. And they couldn't find anybody crazy enough to do it. And they had never hired outside, but they had come to know of me through Hugh Blake and my relationship with their student ministries that they do at Grace.

And through that process, I was hired as the first outside pastor at Grace Church.

Are you speaking of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley where John MacArthur passed?

I am with Dr. John MacArthur, yes. And, you know, John pulled up on a motorcycle at one point and said, I want to fly you down and let's talk.

So that's how it happened.

And anyway, I was there for 1979 to 1989 and was trained in ministry, discipled by John. It was an amazing time. I was his executive pastor before I left for a couple of years and then have been pastoring ever since.

So I've been at Faith Bible for now 17 years. The church has been in existence for 20. And we're having a ball. We're seeing the Lord do some amazing things.

Praise God. And how did you discover and embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace? Because your description of your earlier journey before getting to Grace Community Church, which is a very solid church that believes in and declares unwaveringly the doctrines of sovereign grace.

But your history before that seems like it might not be quite from that background. So how did you discover the doctrines of grace and fall in love with them and embrace them?

I think through, you know, reading the Scripture. You can't get through Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 without beginning to realize that God is sovereign in salvation. And there were certain books that had come out, J .I. Packer's Knowing God, et cetera, that began to fuel my love and affection for that.

And I didn't really have any doctrinal differences by the time I was hired at Grace. I think there were some things that were clarified, but it's been a wonderful journey. If you're just looking for the author's intended message in any passage, you're going to end up with sound doctrine.

You're going to end up, I believe, to be of a Reformation perspective just by letting the Bible speak for itself.

Well, praise God for that. And when did you realize God had placed it upon your heart and extended a calling to you to enter into pastoral ministry?

You know, that was an interesting perspective and journey. I really believe that the Lord had called me apart to be a Bible teacher. And in that process, I grew through outside ministries of the church, a deep affection for the church, and began to study my ecclesiology and understood what Christ had designed for His body and began to pursue that pretty intensely.

It was an interesting journey because I was really not tied into a very solid local church, but I began to realize what men taught about the church, what the Bible described as the local church, and became very much in love with the fact that there was a great need for pastor teachers, a great need for men to open up God's Word in a very clear and unapologetic fashion, and for people to be equipped so that they could do the work of ministry and so that the gospel could be proclaimed.

And so in that whole process, I think by the time I was three years into my seminary training and three years on staff at Grace Church, it became very obvious that I should be a pastor. That was a great deal of affection for that calling and role.

It was affirmed by the elders of Grace, and I was ordained there and sent from there.

Praise God for that. Now, let us enter into this very controversial theme that we are about to tackle, God's shocking answer to the gender crisis. And please explain to us, even though this is something that seems to saturate every form of media every day, numerous times a day, but we're talking about the gender crisis.

Specifically, we're talking about God's shocking answer to it. But please explain the gender crisis in your own words.

Well, the idea that God made male and female in Genesis 1 is under attack in such a way that it's distorting God's clear and beautiful design for male and female. And it's so obvious in the text that he says he created male and female, and both were designed for God's glory.

Both were designed to honor him, and both were designed to complement one another in marriage. And so this idea of more than two genders is biological insanity. It's moral perversity. It's biblical hostility.

You're going against exactly what God has laid out in his word. And, you know, the society is wanting to silence God's view. And I believe that it's actually driven by an agenda. And the agenda is found in Romans chapter 1.

It's pretty clear when God judges a society, when he pours out his wrath, and he does. He's not waiting to pour out his wrath. He's pouring out his wrath, and it says,. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

So how does that take place? Well, it says in verse 24 that God gave them over to the lusts of their hearts and impurity. And then the next stage in his judgment and the revealing of his wrath is verse 26.

For this reason, God gave them over to degrading passions. And then he describes very clearly the homosexual lesbian movement. And then verse 28, that they didn't see fit to acknowledge God any longer.

God gave them over to a depraved mind. And I believe that what you're seeing today is driven. I don't think it's just happening, it's driven. And there is an overwhelming sense in the homosexual and lesbian movement to legitimize their behavior and their sin.

And this is an unending effort on their part. And what you're finding in society is, I believe, the expression of unbridled lust, and secondly, then God giving over to the homosexual and lesbian movement, and then God giving people over to sin with a depraved mind, is basically reflective of the homosexual movement is basically saying, if we can erase gender, then what's the deal with a man sleeping with a man and a woman sleeping with a woman?

What's the big deal? If there's no gender, then there's no issue. And so what you have is this plethora of genders, this plethora of renaming things, of moving away from a clear male and female, God's design for the sexes, and in marriage, one male, one female in marriage.

And so what they're trying to do is just destroy that. And so what you have is a crisis where, in God's judgment, they're pushing back and they're trying to legitimize their homosexual-lesbian movement.

And they're going to do that by distorting the genders. And if they can do that, then it's very perverse and it's really horrific. And what they're going to accomplish is, ultimately, that there's no morality against these issues because there's no man, there's no woman, it's not a big deal.

And it's all in a goal in which to legitimize their behavior. And so what we have is just the next step. So you've got unbridled lust that has been now shockingly pervasive in our society since the 1960s, coming out of the closet in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, and now you've got this depraved mind of inventing ways in which to distort the true identity of only male and only female.

Everybody senses it, everybody sees it, and those with any thinking mind at all are appalled by what they see and go, how can this be? Well, again, it's, I believe, driven by evil, and it's driven by also the disintegration of our society as it's crumbling around us.

This is a part of that process in which to legitimize it. We're faster moving towards a Sodom and Gomorrah. And I think that we're going to have to be very, very clear as to what we believe and very vocal, and I believe we're going to find persecution coming through this process as well.

By the way, this is a perfect time for me to remind our listeners that my dear friend of many years, going on three decades, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, he is going to be speaking here at a conference, a three-day conference in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, September 15th, 16th, and 17th.

And on Saturday, the 16th of September, there is a very close to finalizing and confirming debate that is going to be held, God willing, on that day. We are 99 certain that we are just waiting for a final approval of the debate opponent for Dr. White.

But the theme of this debate will be, Is gay Christian a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's Church? I'm not going to mention Dr. White's opponent in this debate yet because I'm still waiting for the 100 confirmation that he is going to be involved.

But every exchange we've had via email, he has already said that he's very enthusiastic about participating and is just waiting for a staff member of his ministry to give a final confirmation. This individual believes, just like Dr. White and I, and even my guest, Pastor Chris Mueller, he agrees with us that homosexuality is a damnable sin if you do not repent from the physical activity of this sin.

He does not believe in same-sex marriage. He believes that sex is only to be enjoyed between a married man and a marriage to a woman. And this monogamous relationship should be for life. And he would agree with many things that evangelicals and Bible-believing Christians believe about homosexuality.

But, since he claims to have this same-sex attraction, and also believes he is a born-again believer, he believes that it is an acceptable identity to call himself a gay Christian. So that will be the theme of the debate, God willing, on Saturday, September 16th.

And we will keep you updated on the confirmation of that debate and also the venue where the three-day conference will be held in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, featuring Dr. James R. White. We're going to our first commercial break right now.

So, if you have a question for Chris Mueller, please submit it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. ChrisArnzen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Let's say you are struggling with same-sex attraction. And, obviously, you perhaps do not want to identify yourself at this point.

We understand that. Or perhaps it's because you have a complaint about your church. Perhaps you believe your church is too soft on this issue and too welcoming of this behavior. Or perhaps you think that they're over the top in their criticism of this behavior.

Perhaps you disagree with my guest and myself. Well, whatever the issue is that would compel you to remain anonymous, we will respect your wishes, and we will not identify who you are. But if you're asking a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please don't go away. We are going to be going into our first commercial break. And, by the way, the email address to send a question for Chris Mueller is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We'll be right back.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here. I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd. On a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries. And there's more great news. Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration fee.

Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo code G3ISIR. That's G3ISIR for the 30 discount. Chris Arnson and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there. Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your 30 discount off the registration fee.

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So go to royaldiadem .com soon and mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Triple Zion Radio. We're now back with our guest today, Pastor Chris Mueller of Faith Bible Church of Marietta, California, who is also one of the speakers at the upcoming 2023 G3 National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia.

We are discussing God's shocking answer to the gender crisis. And our email address, if you have a question, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com. Chrisarnzen at gmail .com. We have an anonymous listener who says, How do we approach this situation when we have people visiting a church and confessing that they are homosexuals or same-sex attracted persons?

Do we tell them that you must completely repent of not only the activity, but even the attraction in order to be a genuine Christian? Or are there truly born-again believers that may battle this same-sex attraction for the rest of their lives?

Pastor Mueller, can you hear me?

Yes, I can.

Did you hear the question?

I did.

Okay.

So, you know, interesting enough, obviously I believe that we should be as loving and kind and gracious as we possibly can be, and yet at the same time to be as truthful and direct and uncompromising.

So I base that upon Jesus being described in John 1 as full of grace and truth. So we want to speak the truth, but we want to do so graciously. We want to be gracious, but we want to speak the truth. So in the way in which we address issues of salvation, that's really what the debate was that you were bringing up with Dr. White that's coming up.

It's pretty clear in Scripture in 1 Corinthians 6 that those who are effeminate, those who live a lifestyle of homosexuality, are not going to inherit the kingdom of God. Paul could not be clearer that that is an issue requiring repentance.

The issue of people who battle and struggle with same-sex attraction, that is really a secondary issue. If they have humbly come under the gospel of Jesus Christ, they have turned from their sin, they have put their faith in Jesus Christ, they believe that He is the one who has, in a sense, opened their heart to be able to even do that, and so they've embraced Him by saying, He's the one that I love, He's my first love, He's the one that I want to pursue, that there's nothing more important to me than Jesus Christ, then all those kind of affections and attractions, etc., are going to be curbed under the Word of God and the Spirit of God.

They still might be present. We all have sin bent. They still may struggle with that, but they're not going to pursue it. They're going to realize and know that that's a lifestyle that they no longer embrace, and that that's a thinking and a feeling that God is going to help them to squash, but it's going to be a battle.

It's not going to be my battle, probably not going to be your battle, but it's going to be many people's battles who come out of that lifestyle, and they're going to be fruitful and successful in that battle.

So, yes, there's going to be struggle, but they're going to be able to repent, they're going to be able to turn from it, and they're going to be able to find a measure of victory. And in time, maybe even those feelings and thoughts will go away.

They may not, but they may. You know, we understand that Christians are redeemed, but we're not perfect until we get to heaven. There's going to be battles with sin. Luther said that, you know, the birds can fly over, they don't have to build a nest in your hair.

Temptations are going to come, but how we respond to them is going to show whether we're actually regenerate, that we actually indwelt with the Spirit of God, that we have the ability in which to turn from our sin.

And so, in these kind of situations where there is that desire and struggle, there's going to be sovereign power. There's going to be the ability to rely on the Spirit to which to curb those issues, but they may not totally go away.

Just as Abraham had difficulty controlling his deception, David had difficulty controlling his lust, Peter had trouble controlling his mouth. There's going to be struggles that we're going to have up until we get to heaven's door, and being aware of that and being in the fight is going to be the issue.

And God says no temptation is going to overtake you except for which is common to man, and he's going to give us the ability in which to resist those things. And so, that's what I would say to someone.

Yes, they're going to turn from their sin, they're not going to pursue that lifestyle, but they may have lingering feelings, they may have struggles. And being aware of that, they're going to take the proper steps.

An alcoholic is typically not going to go, someone who's given over to drunkenness, is not going to go back into a bar. They're just not going to do that because they know that it's too much of a temptation.

And so, there's going to be steps that are going to be taken in which to deal with that. But that's ultimately not what's going to solve the gender crisis. The gender crisis is going to be solved within the context of the church.

Just some clarifications on that. There is a segment of society, a segment of the professed church, just as I mentioned before the commercial break, who are so dominated, it seems, by this same-sex attraction, which we do have to differentiate it from a heterosexual lust, because it appears to me that heterosexual lust, although a sin, and even a damning sin, if it's not covered by the blood of Christ, as all sin is damning, no matter how insignificant we think it is, without the blood of Christ, it will send you to the pits of hell for eternity.

But there is something different in that homosexuality is against nature. It's unnatural. And so that's where perhaps the confusion comes in, or the uncertainty about this issue, because one wonders if a person is a new creature in Christ, and they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and they are living in obedience to Christ as best as the human can on this planet, while they are still alive, why is it that, and does God allow somebody for decades, perhaps even for the majority of their lives until they die, to have a strong and exclusively same-sex attraction?