July 10, 2023 Show with Chris Mueller on “God’s Shocking Answer to the Gender Crisis”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson,

19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports

legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning

issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man

sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener,

with your own questions.

And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all happy Monday on this 10th day of

July 2023, and I'm thrilled to have a first -time guest today

to discuss a vital subject.

His name is Chris Mueller, preaching minister and elder at Faith Bible Church

of Marietta, California, and he's also one of the many speakers at

the upcoming 2023 G3 National Conference.

Today, we're going to be addressing God's shocking answer to the gender crisis, and

it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Chris

Mueller.

Chris, it's great to be here.

It's an honor.

Just really thrilled to be able to be with you and to be with your listening audience as well as to talk through these issues.

Amen, and have I pronounced your name correctly, Mueller?

Yes, sir, that's what it is.

And is it Marietta, California?

It is Marietta.

We're a church right now establishing a place in Wildomar, which is right next to

Marietta, but we're about 20 years of set -up, take -down church, and we're about to move on property right now by the 15

freeway in Wildomar.

And tell our listeners more about this congregation, including your theological stance and that

kind of thing.

Well, my roots are from Grace Community Church, and most of our elders have had either

exposure or come from Grace Community, where John MacArthur is the senior pastor.

Our doctrine and approach to Scripture would almost be identical, where we're trying

to honor the author's intended message of God's Word and draw our doctrine out of the

text.

And so we have just unapologetically continued to remain

true to that particular stance of Scripture.

So we would be Reformed, we would be premillennial, we would be definitely

those who would not burp and go on when we approach a difficult issue, but we actually try to deal with

all of what the Scripture says on everything.

And so it is our guidepost, it's our light, our lamp, and we revolve around that, and

of course pursuing becoming like Jesus Christ in every way we possibly can, to be light and

salt on a hill, and to be a congregation that truly reaches out to our community with the

love and the gospel message of Jesus Christ.

Amen.

If anybody wants to learn more about Faith Bible Church of Marietta, California,

go to faith -bible .net, faith -bible

.net.

And tell us about exactly what you will be speaking on, if you even know it yet.

I know that very often the speakers at the G3 conference don't know until right before the

conference what they're speaking on.

But the G3 conference is my favorite of all conferences.

I've been manning an exhibitors booth there for Iron Trip and Zion Radio every year

for quite a number of years.

I believe I may have started when they had their first

national conference outside of Praise Mill Baptist Church in

Douglaston, Georgia, and

when they were at the conference hall there, or convention center, in Atlanta

near the Atlanta airport.

But I've been enjoying that every time they have that conference.

I'm amazed at how many people, dozens and dozens of people, come up to me

whom I have never heard from before to encourage me about how much they love my show, Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

And I've also made valuable new connections and friendships there.

But the theme is the sovereignty of God.

Can't think of a better theme than that.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 21st through Saturday, September

23rd in Atlanta.

And I have a wonderful discount, a huge discount for everybody listening,

which I will mention to you momentarily using the Iron Trip and Zion Radio discount code if you

register for this conference.

But tell us about your job there at the upcoming

Sovereignty of God conference.

Well, this will be the second time that I've been to G3, and I was invited

with a group of men from the Master's Fellowship and the Master's Seminary

and College to come and do a pre -conference.

So we were able to minister to some of the folks prior to the G3 conference

itself.

I was overwhelmed by the number of people that come to G3.

It was a delightful time meeting up with brothers and sisters, some whom I know, many who I did not.

And so it was a thrill.

And so Josh Busey is a wonderful man of God, and he's

taken the risk of having me come back and do a breakout session this year.

And it will be seemed around what he desired was that I would talk about gender

issues, but that I would also render some discussion on

discipleship and training in the context of dealing with the gender crisis.

So that's why it's actually what we're talking about today would be what we're going to be talking about at G3, the

shocking answer to the gender crisis.

Now, did you say Gary Busey is going to be there?

I'm only kidding.

Did I say that?

I said Josh.

Didn't I say Josh?

Yes.

I was just kidding you because you actually made me feel better because I mispronounced the city

where Praise Mill Baptist Church is.

It's Douglasville, Georgia, not Douglaston.

Sorry about that, Praise Mill Baptist Church.

But you mispronounced Josh's last name.

It's Bice, even though it's spelled like it should be Busey.

Oh, my goodness.

Okay.

Well, that's great.

He was going to redeem that last name.

So I'm glad to hear that.

So thank you for the clarification.

Okay.

And folks, if you want to find out more about this conference, go to

g3min .org, G -3 -M -I -N, an abbreviation for ministries,

G3 -M -I -N .org.

Click on events.

And when you register, if you use the promo code for Iron Trump and Zion Radio, which is

G3 -I -S -I -R, you will get 30 off the

registration fee.

So I strongly urge you to write that down so you don't forget.

And I strongly urge you to register as soon as possible.

They are expecting the largest crowd ever in the history of the G3 conferences, 8 ,500

people or more.

And I've never been to a conference that large.

I believe the last G3 conference was just a little over 6 ,000, maybe approaching

7 ,000.

But I've never been to an event where there – or at least a Bible conference where there are 8 ,500 people.

And so go to g3min .org and use the promo code

G3 -I -S -I -R, G3 -I -S -I -R.

And this conference, as it always does, has a mind -blowing roster of

speakers.

Not only will you have Josh Bice, the founder of G3 Ministries, speaking.

And by the way, he is absolutely an extraordinary preacher.

Vodie Baucom will be speaking there.

Steve Lawson, Paul Washer, Phil Johnson, executive director of John

MacArthur's Grace to You Ministries.

My dear friend of many years, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

Mike Riccardi, who is on the faculty at the Master's Seminary.

Justin Peters, who's been on this program many times.

Ken Ham, who has been on this program and is also coming back

to Iron Trip and Zion.

Radio.

And you might want to mark your calendars for this.

Tuesday, July 25th, Ken Ham will be returning to Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Owen Strand, who I've grown to know and love and have interviewed him and I love hearing him preach.

I have had the opportunity to do that at a number of conferences.

James Coates, who is that renowned pastor in Canada that was arrested for refusing to shut

down the church where he pastors during the COVID crisis.

Scott Anial, Virgil Walker, Daryl Harrison, both of whom I love and have

interviewed many times on this program.

Scott Brown, who I have interviewed as well.

Looking forward to having him back.

As I said, the aforementioned Chris Mueller, who's on our program today.

Carl Hargrove, Tom Buck, Harry Walls, Nathan Bucinitz.

And for the ladies, Susan Heck, who's been on this broadcast.

So please go to g3men .org, click on events.

And when you register, use promo code G3ISIR for 30 off

the registration fee.

Well, we have a custom here, a tradition on Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

Pastor Chris, whenever we have a first time guest such as yourself, we have that guest give a summary of their

salvation testimony, which would include any kind of religious atmosphere in which they were raised

and what kind of providential circumstances, our sovereign Lord has raised up

in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them.

So we'd love to hear a summary of your story.

Well, I came to know Christ as a result of the Jesus movement that occurred in

the late 60s, early 70s in California and really across the

nation.

It was my brother and sister, there's three of us, who came to Christ through that

movement and really radically changed the nature of our home.

There were arguments and disagreements.

There was discussions about religious leaders who appeared to be criminal in their

approaches.

And there was all kinds of difficulty and tension.

We came from an agnostic home.

My parents were not opposed to the idea of God, but they were not going to

want us to walk down the road of some sort of church or etc.

And interesting enough, I was the last to come around in my family because I rebelled

in my junior high and high school years.

And my parents saw such a change, even though they disagreed with my brother and sister, they saw

such a significant change in their lives.

They said, well, we better take the youngest one to church to straighten him out.

So they ended up at a Dutch Reformed church in Buena Park, California, and

they came to Christ.

First, my mom and then my dad, and then they started praying for me.

So I think they had the entire church praying for me.

And in that process, I was awakened to the reality of

the stupidness of this world and all that it had to offer.

And even though I went to church, I wasn't a Christian until about the end of my senior year.

And the Lord brought me to a point of genuine repentance and turned from my sin and followed

Christ at that point.

Immediately got involved in student ministry, working with the junior high and Youth for Christ Campus Life.

I also began to attend my summers at human Christian camps, got exposed to a different

level of Christendom where the Bible teaching was really at a much higher level and really

awakened my heart and soul and desire to begin to pursue that.

And through that course of action and weird circumstances,

Grace Church had need of a junior high pastor.

And they couldn't find anybody crazy enough to do it.

And they had never hired outside, but they had come to know of me through Hugh Blake and my

relationship with their student ministries that they do at Grace.

And through that process, I was hired as the first outside pastor at Grace Church.

Are you speaking of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley where John MacArthur passed?

I am with Dr. John MacArthur, yes.

And, you know, John pulled up on a motorcycle at one point and said, I want to fly you down and let's talk.

So that's how it happened.

And anyway, I was there for 1979 to 1989 and was trained in ministry,

discipled by John.

It was an amazing time.

I was his executive pastor before I left for a couple of years and then

have been pastoring ever since.

So I've been at Faith Bible for now 17 years.

The church has been in existence for 20.

And we're having a ball.

We're seeing the Lord do some amazing things.

Praise God.

And how did you discover and embrace the doctrines of sovereign

grace?

Because your description of your earlier journey before getting to

Grace Community Church, which is a very solid church that believes

in and declares unwaveringly the doctrines of sovereign grace.

But your history before that seems like it might not be quite from that background.

So how did you discover the doctrines of grace and fall in love with them and embrace them?

I think through, you know, reading the Scripture.

You can't get through Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 without beginning to realize that God is sovereign in

salvation.

And there were certain books that had come out, J .I. Packer's Knowing God, et cetera, that began to fuel my

love and affection for that.

And I didn't really have any doctrinal differences by the time I was hired at Grace.

I think there were some things that were clarified, but it's been a wonderful journey.

If you're just looking for the author's intended message in any passage, you're going to end up with sound doctrine.

You're going to end up, I believe, to be of a Reformation perspective

just by letting the Bible speak for itself.

Well, praise God for that.

And when did you realize God had placed it upon your heart and

extended a calling to you to enter into pastoral ministry?

You know, that was an interesting perspective and journey.

I really believe that the Lord had called me apart to be a Bible teacher.

And in that process, I grew through outside ministries

of the church, a deep affection for the church, and began to study my

ecclesiology and understood what Christ had designed for His body

and began to pursue that pretty intensely.

It was an interesting journey because I was really not tied into a very

solid local church, but I began to realize what men taught

about the church, what the Bible described as the local church, and became

very much in love with the fact that there was a great need for

pastor teachers, a great need for men to open up God's Word in a very

clear and unapologetic fashion, and for people to be equipped

so that they could do the work of ministry and so that the gospel could be proclaimed.

And so in that whole process, I think by the time I was three years into my seminary training and three

years on staff at Grace Church, it became very obvious that I should be a pastor.

That was a great deal of affection for that calling and role.

It was affirmed by the elders of Grace, and I was ordained there and sent from

there.

Praise God for that.

Now, let us enter into this very controversial theme that we are about

to tackle, God's shocking answer to the gender crisis.

And please explain to us, even though this is something that seems to

saturate every form of media every day, numerous

times a day, but we're talking about the gender crisis.

Specifically, we're talking about God's shocking answer to it.

But please explain the gender crisis in your own words.

Well, the idea that God made male and female in Genesis 1 is

under attack in such a way that it's distorting

God's clear and beautiful design for male and female.

And it's so obvious in the text that he says he created male and female,

and both were designed for God's glory.

Both were designed to honor him, and both were designed to complement one

another in marriage.

And so this idea of more than two genders is biological insanity.

It's moral perversity.

It's biblical hostility.

You're going against exactly what God has laid out in his word.

And, you know, the society is wanting to silence God's view.

And I believe that it's actually driven by an agenda.

And the agenda is found in Romans chapter 1.

It's pretty clear when God judges a society, when he

pours out his wrath, and he does.

He's not waiting to pour out his wrath.

He's pouring out his wrath, and it says,.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in

unrighteousness.

So how does that take place?

Well, it says in verse 24 that God gave them over to the lusts of their hearts and impurity.

And then the next stage in his judgment and the revealing of his wrath is verse 26.

For this reason, God gave them over to degrading passions.

And then he describes very clearly the homosexual lesbian movement.

And then verse 28, that they didn't see fit to acknowledge God any longer.

God gave them over to a depraved mind.

And I believe that what you're seeing today is driven.

I don't think it's just happening, it's driven.

And there is an overwhelming sense in the homosexual and lesbian movement

to legitimize their behavior and their sin.

And this is an unending effort on their part.

And what you're finding in society is, I believe, the expression of unbridled lust, and secondly,

then God giving over to the homosexual and lesbian movement, and then God giving people over to sin

with a depraved mind, is basically reflective of the homosexual movement is basically

saying, if we can erase gender, then what's the deal with a man sleeping with a man and a woman sleeping with a woman?

What's the big deal?

If there's no gender, then there's no issue.

And so what you have is this plethora of genders, this plethora of

renaming things, of moving away from a clear male and female, God's design

for the sexes, and in marriage, one male, one female in marriage.

And so what they're trying to do is just destroy that.

And so what you have is a crisis where, in God's judgment,

they're pushing back and they're trying to legitimize their homosexual

-lesbian movement.

And they're going to do that by distorting the genders.

And if they can do that, then it's very perverse and it's really

horrific.

And what they're going to accomplish is, ultimately, that there's no

morality against these issues because there's no man, there's no woman, it's not a big deal.

And it's all in a goal in which to legitimize their behavior.

And so what we have is just the next step.

So you've got unbridled lust that has been now shockingly pervasive in

our society since the 1960s, coming out of the closet in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, and now

you've got this depraved mind of inventing ways in which to distort the true

identity of only male and only female.

Everybody senses it, everybody sees it, and those with any thinking mind at all are

appalled by what they see and go, how can this be?

Well, again, it's, I believe, driven by evil, and it's driven by

also the disintegration of our society as it's crumbling around us.

This is a part of that process in which to legitimize it.

We're faster moving towards a Sodom and Gomorrah.

And I think that we're going to have to be very, very clear as to

what we believe and very vocal, and I believe we're going to find persecution coming through

this process as well.

By the way, this is a perfect time for me to remind our listeners that my dear

friend of many years, going on three decades, Dr.

James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, he is going to be speaking here at a conference,

a three -day conference in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, September 15th,

16th, and 17th.

And on Saturday, the 16th of September, there is a

very close to finalizing and confirming

debate that is going to be held, God willing, on that day.

We are 99 certain that we are just waiting for a final approval of the debate

opponent for Dr. White.

But the theme of this debate will be, Is gay Christian

a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's Church?

I'm not going to mention Dr. White's opponent in this debate yet because I'm still waiting for

the 100 confirmation that he is going to be involved.

But every exchange we've had via email, he has already said that he's

very enthusiastic about participating and is just waiting for

a staff member of his ministry to give a final confirmation.

This individual believes, just like Dr. White and I,

and even my guest, Pastor Chris Mueller, he agrees with us that homosexuality

is a damnable sin if you do not repent from the physical

activity of this sin.

He does not believe in same -sex marriage.

He believes that sex is only to be enjoyed between a

married man and a marriage to a woman.

And this monogamous relationship should be for life.

And he would agree with many things that evangelicals and

Bible -believing Christians believe about homosexuality.

But, since he claims to have this

same -sex attraction, and also believes he is a born -again believer, he

believes that it is an acceptable identity to call himself a gay Christian.

So that will be the theme of the debate, God willing, on Saturday, September 16th.

And we will keep you updated on the confirmation of that debate

and also the venue where the three -day conference will be held in Lancaster,

Pennsylvania, featuring Dr. James R. White.

We're going to our first commercial break right now.

So, if you have a question for Chris Mueller, please submit it to ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are struggling with same -sex attraction.

And, obviously, you perhaps do not want to identify yourself at this point.

We understand that.

Or perhaps it's because you have a complaint about your church.

Perhaps you believe your church is too soft on this issue and too welcoming of

this behavior.

Or perhaps you think that they're over the top in their criticism of

this behavior.

Perhaps you disagree with my guest and myself.

Well, whatever the issue is that would compel you to remain anonymous, we will respect your wishes,

and we will not identify who you are.

But if you're asking a general question, please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your

country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please don't go away.

We are going to be going into our first commercial break.

And, by the way, the email address to send a question for Chris Mueller is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We'll be right back.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd.

On a theme that I have been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the

sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott

Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

And there's more great news.

Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration

fee.

Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo

code G3ISIR.

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Chris Arnson and I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the G3

National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while

you're there.

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your

30 discount off the registration fee.

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We're now back with our guest today, Pastor Chris Mueller of Faith Bible Church of

Marietta, California, who is also one of the speakers at the upcoming 2023 G3

National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia.

We are discussing God's shocking answer to the gender crisis.

And our email address, if you have a question, is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

We have an anonymous listener who says, How do we approach this

situation when we have people visiting a church and confessing

that they are homosexuals or same -sex attracted persons?

Do we tell them that you must completely repent of not only the activity,

but even the attraction in order to be a genuine Christian?

Or are there truly born -again believers that may battle this same -sex attraction for the rest of

their lives?

Pastor Mueller, can you hear me?

Yes, I can.

Did you hear the question?

I did.

Okay.

So, you know, interesting enough, obviously I

believe that we should be as loving and kind

and gracious as we possibly can be, and yet at the same time to

be as truthful and direct and uncompromising.

So I base that upon Jesus being described in John 1 as full of grace

and truth.

So we want to speak the truth, but we want to do so graciously.

We want to be gracious, but we want to speak the truth.

So in the way in which we address issues of salvation,

that's really what the debate was that you were bringing up with Dr. White that's coming up.

It's pretty clear in Scripture in 1 Corinthians 6 that those who are effeminate,

those who live a lifestyle of homosexuality, are not going to inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul could not be clearer that that is an issue

requiring repentance.

The issue of people who battle and struggle with same -sex

attraction, that is really a secondary issue.

If they have humbly come under the gospel of Jesus Christ, they have turned

from their sin, they have put their faith in Jesus Christ, they believe that

He is the one who has, in a sense, opened their heart to be able to even do that, and so they've embraced Him

by saying, He's the one that I love, He's my first love, He's the one that I want to pursue,

that there's nothing more important to me than Jesus Christ, then all those kind of

affections and attractions, etc., are going to be curbed under

the Word of God and the Spirit of God.

They still might be present.

We all have sin bent.

They still may struggle with that, but they're not going to pursue it.

They're going to realize and know that that's a lifestyle that they no longer embrace, and

that that's a thinking and a feeling that God is going to help them to

squash, but it's going to be a battle.

It's not going to be my battle, probably not going to be your battle, but it's going to be many people's battles who come out of that lifestyle,

and they're going to be fruitful and successful in that battle.

So, yes, there's going to be struggle, but they're going to be able to repent, they're going to be

able to turn from it, and they're going to be able to find a measure of victory.

And in time, maybe even those feelings and thoughts will go away.

They may not, but they may.

You know, we understand that Christians are redeemed, but we're not perfect until we get to heaven.

There's going to be battles with sin.

Luther said that, you know, the birds can fly over, they don't have to build a nest in your hair.

Temptations are going to come, but how we respond to them is going to show whether we're actually regenerate,

that we actually indwelt with the Spirit of God, that we have the ability in which to turn from our sin.

And so, in these kind of situations where there is that desire and struggle, there's going to be

sovereign power.

There's going to be the ability to rely on the Spirit to which to curb those issues, but they may not totally

go away.

Just as Abraham had difficulty controlling his deception, David had

difficulty controlling his lust, Peter had trouble controlling his mouth.

There's going to be struggles that we're going to have up until we get to heaven's door,

and being aware of that and being in the fight is going to be the issue.

And God says no temptation is going to overtake you except for which is common to man, and he's going to give us the ability

in which to resist those things.

And so, that's what I would say to someone.

Yes, they're going to turn from their sin, they're not going to pursue that lifestyle, but they may have lingering

feelings, they may have struggles.

And being aware of that, they're going to take the proper steps.

An alcoholic is typically not going to go, someone who's given over to drunkenness, is not going to go

back into a bar.

They're just not going to do that because they know that it's too much of a temptation.

And so, there's going to be steps that are going to be taken in which to deal with that.

But that's ultimately not what's going to solve the gender crisis.

The gender crisis is going to be solved within the context of the church.

Just some clarifications on that.

There is a segment of society, a segment of the professed church,

just as I mentioned before the commercial break, who are so

dominated, it seems, by this same -sex attraction,

which we do have to differentiate it from a

heterosexual lust, because it appears to me that

heterosexual lust, although a sin, and even a damning sin, if it's not

covered by the blood of Christ, as all sin is damning, no matter how insignificant we think

it is, without the blood of Christ, it will send you to the pits of hell for eternity.

But there is something different in that homosexuality is against nature.

It's unnatural.

And so that's where perhaps the confusion

comes in, or the uncertainty about this issue, because one wonders if a

person is a new creature in Christ, and they are indwelt by the Holy

Spirit, and they are living in obedience to Christ as

best as the human can on this planet, while they are still alive,

why is it that, and does God allow

somebody for decades, perhaps even for the majority of their lives until they die,

to have a strong and exclusively same -sex attraction?

Why would God not deliver them from that?

Because it is, as I said, not a heterosexual sin,

which is a misuse of a gift.

I think that attraction to the opposite sex is a gift from God, only to be enjoyed

and brought to fruition in a marriage between a man and a

woman.

But people abuse and twist this gift, where they

fantasize about people that are not their wife, they commit adultery, or if they're not married, they fornicate.

These are all sins, and damnable ones, without the blood of Christ.

But is there not a difference between that and an unnatural sin like

homosexuality?

Well, of course there is a difference.

It's a whole level beyond lust.

Again, Romans 1, in God's judgment of a society and a people, it's

going to be that he gives them over to lust, and that lust is going to grow uncontrolled, and it's going to lead to

homosexuality and lesbianism.

And it is a different level of corruption, a different level of

fallenness.

It's a serious state to be in, and therefore, there are

people, though, who do repent.

They find a new life in Christ.

Some, to some degree, are delivered from that same -sex

attraction, the mental and emotional drive

that goes on through their life, and others are battled with it.

The issue is, you know, are they going to depend upon the Lord and walk in obedience to his word?

And to curb those thoughts, like Philippians 4, 8, are they going to think about what's

true, what's right, what's honorable, what is of a good repute, anything worthy of praise?

Let your mind dwell on those things.

They're going to be in the mental battle, and they're going to see God and his

Spirit give them a measure of victory through that process.

I think this overwhelmingness of that sin may be

an indication that they're not born again, because God is going to deliver them to some degree, though it may not

completely go away.

They're going to have to be cautious, they're going to have to be wary, and take correct steps to make

sure that they don't walk down that road again or allow their mind to go down paths that should not go down.

So, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but I believe that God does deliver

some.

I think that there are others, and like the rest of us, have particular bents that we will

constantly have to depend upon the Lord and rely upon him in order to have a measure of victory in

our lives.

And I think that's true of almost every Christian to some degree, that we have to rely on him to overcome these

propensities or weaknesses in our life.

And I'm not saying that it is different, and I think it's more intense for the

homosexual, but it is definitely the same as far as sanctification and being able to

pursue Christ as well as flee sin and to do that by the power of the Spirit.

They can't do it on their own strength, no one can.

It's got to be reliant upon the Spirit of God and the Word of God and walking in a

dependent obedience upon him.

And therefore, that's when they're going to find some measure of victory.

But again, this is just the indicator of the problem.

The solution is going to be found in the church.

It's going to be, you know, we can vote, we can be vocal, we can extol biblical men and women

to anyone who will listen, we can celebrate God's clear design, and we need to.

Solid marriages are an incredible testimony and witness of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

It's something that the world has no idea and no understanding of

how good that can be, as well as the church of Jesus Christ, that we should be one as

he and the Father are one.

There's an element of the high priestly prayer where Jesus lays out an expectation for the church family to have such incredible

relationships with one another that the lost look at us and go, we want to be a part of that.

And that's a part of the big answer.

And the first answer really in the crisis is that we proclaim it.

And I find this in Titus chapter 1, where Paul talks with

Titus, and he teaches him that I want you to appoint elders.

Titus wasn't really a pastor.

He was a missionary church planter.

When you read the end of Titus, he was going to be sent and join Paul within six months.

He's not there to stay, but he's there to appoint elders.

And in those elderships, there'll be preachers, pastor -teachers who are going to proclaim God's word

and really give us an understanding of what God's design is.

And what we have today is churches that are not preaching God's word concerning gender.

They're embarrassed.

They're afraid.

And because of that, we're finding that less and less people even understand why there's a gender

crisis.

What we need is qualified men, and in those qualified men, there's supposed to be Titus 1 -9, holding fast the

faithful word which is in accordance with the teachings so that he may be able to exhort in sound doctrine and refute

those who contradict.

And basically what he's saying is to hold fast the faithful word is that these elders, pastors, and pastor -teachers are

supposed to refuse to let go of the author's intended message.

They're to draw out or exposit what God meant by what God said so that they'll be able to

exhort in sound doctrine.

Sound, the word sound is where we get our word healthy.

It's healthy doctrine.

Healthy doctrine is that which makes you more like Christ.

And that's what has to happen within the context of our churches.

The challenge of 2 Timothy 4 -2, Preach the word, be ready in season and out of season,

rebuke, reprove, exhort with great patience and instructions, or they will come

that day when they will not endure sound doctrine and they will not endure healthy doctrine.

What's amazing about this challenge, about teaching the word, making sure that people hear the

truth.

Honestly, Chris, how many pulpits have you heard?

Wives submit and women become workers at home.

That's right out of Titus chapter 2, but it's not heard of in our pulpits today.

We're embarrassed to say it five times in the scripture.

It says women are to submit to their husbands.

Now, it's in the middle voice.

They submit themselves.

It's not something that men do, but it is definitely they're ranking themselves under.

It's a military term.

They come under the leadership of their husband.

And men are to be the heads of their homes.

And it's not a wish that they would be, could be, should be.

It's indicative mood.

It's basically a statement of fact.

They are the head.

The only question is, are they a biblical head, a servant leader, one who loves his wife, one who's one with his wife,

one who adores his bride, or is it a guy who's just bumping off

leadership statements and saying, you know, do what I say instead of let's do what Christ wants.

Let's do what he says.

So the real thing that has to happen within the context of the church to solve this crisis is we've got to be

preaching the word, teaching the word on God's design for men and women.

We're not going to get clarity even on the homosexual movement until we understand what did God design.

What you have in Ephesians, what you have in Colossians, is this incredible description

of the role of men, the role of women, and oneness in marriage.

And it's something that emulates the Trinity to some degree, and it is fantastic the way God designed it.

And we're not extolling that.

We're not having our marriages be all that they're supposed to be.

And men aren't fulfilling their design.

By the way, we have to pick up right where you left off because we have to go to our midway break.

Not a problem.

And please remember where you left off, that the pulpits globally are sadly

inadequate in their making it clear what God has designed men

and women to be.

We have to go to this midway break.

Please be patient with us, folks, because it's always in the middle of the show.

The break is a bit longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida,

requires of us to have a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC requires of them

to use the middle of our break to localize geographically this program to Lake City, Florida,

and they do so with their own public service announcements while we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So please be patient with us, and we'll be right back.

Don't go away.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

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Before I return to Pastor Chris Mueller of Faith Bible Church of Murrieta, California, who is our guest

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God's Shocking Answer to the Gender Crisis.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Give us a first name at least, city and state, and country of residence, and only remain anonymous if your question is personal and

private.

Your comments before the break, Pastor Chris, reminded me of a wedding,

or should I say every wedding that I attended at the former church

where I was a member on Long Island, Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Long Island in Merrick.

I haven't been to any weddings at the church where I am currently a member after relocating to

Pennsylvania, Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, but at my former church, whenever there was a

wedding, I could immediately tell when a couple were visiting, were

visiting for the wedding itself, because you would see whenever the pastor would give

the charge to the wife to be submissive to her husband, you would see the angry looks on

women whispering angrily into their husband's ears.

So it is interesting how you can tell who's a visitor during those circumstances.

The reasons that you gave or the examples that you gave as an answer

to the gender crisis, why are they shocking?

Well, they're shocking because when we get to the last two, you'll find that they're very much

not practiced.

And so as a result of that, it's a little bit shocking because we tend to

marginally commit ourselves to proclaiming God's Word in its entirety

concerning the role of men and women in God's perfect design, but we don't necessarily

follow it up with the other requirements that are actually found within the context of the Scripture.

So, you know, Titus is very clear as he lays out

the Apostle Paul to Titus when he says, make sure these men are teaching this sound doctrine

that's coming from the text, and he immediately launches into in chapter 2 what that sound

doctrine is.

In chapter 2, verse 1, he says this sound doctrine, and then he lays out the expectations for older

men, older women, younger women, and younger men in the context of the Church, which is

part of the sound doctrine, which would then glorify God, make you like Christ, and do exactly what

Christ has called you to do.

The Cretans were having a really hard time putting their beliefs into practice, so there's six

charges to manifest good deeds.

They were really having a hard time because they lived in a very corrupt culture.

Not just ours is bad, but their culture was lazy.

It was perverse.

Paul even describes it as being always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons,

all true, and he says for this reason, reprove them severely so they may be sound, again, healthy

in the faith.

And so he charges them in chapter 2 to live out your doctrine

by living out God's design, and I like to focus on God's design for men and then God's design

for women, which is somewhat shocking today because it feels very traditional, but it's

actually very biblical.

The man is to be the head of the home.

A biblical head is someone who's responsible.

They're engaged in what their family's doing.

They're not just coaching from a distance, so to speak.

They're on the field with them.

They're initiating servant leadership.

They're seeking to have their family, their wife, their children, all honor Christ,

all under the word, all functioning together, all loving and also serving one another.

He does some really strong exhortations throughout the context of the New Testament concerning

men and women in 1 Timothy chapter 2 are to lead their homes.

Men are to lead Christ's church, and then he says in Titus 2, 6 that men are to be sensible,

and then he includes Titus in this exhortation and all things to show yourself to be an example of good deeds, purity and

doctrine again, dignified, sound in speech, which is beyond reproach.

Men are to be sensible, meaning thinking men, men who live life through the lens of Scripture.

They set goals and then pursue them.

They're guiding their families in not an emotional way, not in a popular way, but in a

biblical way.

They're an example of good deeds.

They basically can tell their wife and kids, follow me as I follow Christ.

They're pure in doctrine, which means they're allowing the text of Scripture to drive their doctrine.

They're allowing the author's intended message to drive their understanding of what's true about God.

They're not molding business ideas in or psychological concepts or even maybe

poor parenting that they receive from their own parents, but according to the Scripture.

And men are to be socially dignified, which means that they're men who are responsible and respectful

and representatives of Christ.

And then visually sound in doctrine or sound in speech.

They're to be those who are healthy in what they say, like Ephesians 4 .29, let no unwholesome word

proceed from your mouth.

So all those things are being systematically dismantled by our media, by our society.

Men are made out to be fools, misogynists, macho, archaically traditional.

Instead of just saying, I want to be a biblical man, I want to reflect God's character.

I want to be someone who is one with my spouse and yet also functioning in the way that

God designed.

But if you really want to step on somebody's toes, the preacher's got to walk through, just like you said, Chris,

in a wedding ceremony, they've got to walk through God's design for women.

And if you want to get a reaction or you want to get persecuted or you want to really see where people are at, then just

teach this through.

Now, if you're a single gal or a single guy, the Bible's pretty clear, 1 Corinthians 7 .35,

you're to secure undistracted devotion to the Lord.

But from Genesis 1, we find out that at the very get -go, the Lord said, it's not good for man to be alone, I'll make him a helper.

And helper is actually not a demeaning term, it's most often used of God himself as our helper.

It's a very dignified and come alongside and do this together.

But we do find that there are distinctions in both Old and New Testament between men and women.

In 1 Timothy 2, verses 11 -15, call women in the worship service not to exercise authority over

men, but to remain quiet.

And he uses the, actually, the events of creation and the events of

the fall to actually justify and to clarify what he means.

Added to that, I already mentioned that five times total in the New Testament, women are to submit themselves under the headship of their husbands,

to rank themselves under as if they're in the military, follow their loving servant leadership.

And then he says things that are just a powder keg of truth in verse 4 of Titus 2, so that

they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, love their children.

Both that love there are not agape, but it's phileo, it's to like your husband, like your children with a deep

affection and commitment and relationship, to be sensible, to be thinking women, to be pure.

And in this context, he's talking about moral purity.

And that word purity is moral purity with all the freedom that Christianity brought to women in the first century.

They were not to go about or to be unfaithful to their husbands as they ministered home to home.

And then he says, right in the middle of all this, love your husband, love your children, right in the middle of after be

kind and subject to your husbands, is be a worker at home.

Domestically, a wife is to be a worker at home.

Now, this is shocking.

This is a painful reality with so many women working, etc.

It comes from true Greek words that are somewhat shocking, and that is, it comes from to work and at home.

And so, therefore, her heart is not to focus on a career, but her home, where she does her work, primarily, is to be

an efficient homemaker.

Socially, she's to be kind, loving the saints, and mercifully caring for those who are not in Christ.

And spiritually, she's to submit to her husband.

Again, 1 Corinthians 11, 3.

After the incarnation of Christ, the son submitted to the father.

And Paul uses that.

He says, I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man.

And the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ.

And submission can't be demeaning if Christ submitted to the father after the incarnation.

Some people have never heard that from a pulpit.

And this is the next generation.

Now, when I was the college pastor at Grace Community Church a long time ago, when dinosaurs still roamed on the earth,

I taught the collegiates.

I was the college pastor for four and a half years, and they were struggling with this idea

of what God's design was for men and women.

They had, you know, not exactly the correct view.

And so, the Lord led me to Titus chapter 2.

I walked through that.

We called it, let the men, let the women be women, let the men be men.

And they drank it up.

They just went crazy for wanting to be what God wanted them to be.

Listen, if you're regenerate, then you do have a heart that wants to obey.

Romans 6, 17.

You want to obey the scripture.

You want to follow God's design.

So, therefore, we've got to have pulpits that are clearly laying out God's design unapologetically.

In fact, that series was so remarkable that now, three years ago, one of the

collegians has become a publisher, came to me and said, I want you to write two books.

And we wrote two books, let the men be men, let the women be women, that lay this out much more detail than I could ever

do in a broadcast that talk through God's design for men and God's design for women.

God's design for manhood and marriage, and God's design for womanhood and marriage.

And so, it's designed for junior high, high school, college, young marriage, and basically, it's

to help them to understand, and they need a marker to go and pursue

what God has designed.

The rub is, if we're really preaching God's design, if that were all that was needed,

Paul wouldn't have added this phrase.

Look what he says in Titus 2, verse 4.

It says, these older women are living out their design as God laid it out for them in

order that the older women would encourage the younger women.

The ESV would say train, the New King James Version would say admonish.

You have this focus of training within the context of the church.

Now, he lays out the expectation that elders would be preaching the word, but the second major

element, and why this is asked as a crisis, is that it's not happening.

That it is absolutely essential that the older generation disciple the next generation into God's

design.

That's the second main point.

The second key.

And that's found right here that older women train the younger.

And I believe I did my doctoral thesis on discipleship and training

and I believe that this is a reflection of Matthew 28 and making disciples.

That we are to have intentional relationships for the purpose of growth, the

purpose of the gospel, that people come to Christ, and the purpose of growth in Christ so that they

would then go home in Christ.

And ultimately, they would be impacted.

And that's what's missing in most churches.

Or what they do is they say, well, this is the group that disciples, or we have discipleship in the context of our young

people, but this is when Jesus perpetuated and called the church

to be disciple -making.

He said, make disciples, going baptizing and teaching them to obey all that I commanded you.

And he said, do this unto the end of the age.

And we are not at the end of the age.

Therefore, this is a part of that process.

The word disciple disappears and doesn't, after Acts 21, doesn't appear in the

epistles.

And the reason for that is because as Christ discipled his men, now the body of Christ

disciples his men, his women.

We are to have women ministering to women, men ministering to men.

It is to be in this process of teaching them to obey all that I've commanded you.

And he has commanded us to do this sound doctrine investment

that men would become men and women would become women.

We need discipleship.

We need investment.

We need relationship.

Like Paul said, we gave you our very lives.

We just didn't preach at you.

We extended our lives.

We need to get alongside, come alongside people and mentor them, disciple them,

have a friendship with them to help them to become the men that God designed them to be.

I've been training guys for 44 years and that's laymen, not just seminary men, but

laymen.

We have a seminary extension at our church from the Master Seminary.

We train our seminarians well, but our laymen need to be trained by older godly men who come

alongside of them and show them what it means to be a man.

What it means that, I mean, just on a basic level of social, you know,

how to shake a hand, how to look a guy in the eye, but it also means living by the Scripture in every way, dealing

with sin in every way, figuring out exactly how you proceed and represent Christ in

every given situation.

Understand certain parachurches' ministries have kind of warped us in our understanding of discipleship.

Discipleship is plural.

The going, baptizing, and teaching of Matthew 28 is plural.

The older women maintaining the younger women is plural.

It's all women ministering to women, not necessarily a one -on -one arrangement.

The downside to one -on -one investment in discipleship is that they become like you

and not Christ.

The upside of it is that it really offers a lot of teeth and accountability and investment.

So, honestly, Chris, you probably say this.

I know I would say this.

I've had men invest into my life.

I had significant men investing in my life, but it's always typically been more than one man.

There's been multiple people who have impacted me, and that's part of what discipleship is.

It's this relational investment.

The word disciple means learner and follower, and it's someone who's, I want to be a follower of Christ.

We're helping them to become like Christ.

We're helping them to become what God intended them to be.

And so, therefore, even in parenting, I know this may be radical for some people to hear,

there really is no New Testament verb for parenting.

It's what God is expecting, what Christ is expecting of you.

You disciple your children.

You come alongside.

You invest in them.

You're constantly, constantly reiterating the Word of God.

You're teaching the Word, but you're showing them the Word.

You're showing them how and investing into them.

Iron sharpens iron.

Gee, that sounds like a great name for a podcast.

One man sharpens another.

That's what he's talking about.

Listen, iron sharpens iron, but not without heat and sparks, man.

You're working at it.

It doesn't always work right, but you're going after it.

2 Timothy 2 -2, you're training faithful men.

1 Peter 5 -5, younger men are to be subject to your elders.

The older men of verse 2 aren't a disciple.

I believe and invest in the younger men of verses 6 -8 in Titus 2, and therefore if a family and a church is going to see the next

generation really have spirit -filled males and spirit -filled females, they need to be

taught the Word unapologetically, walking through Proverbs 31, walking through Colossians,

walking through Ephesians 5, walking through 1 Peter 5, all the passages 1 Peter 3 that deal

with the roles of men and women very clearly, laying it out unapologetically, and then

there needs to be discipleship that comes alongside that older men are mentoring younger women.

Now, here's the problem.

We're getting no reinforcement from anywhere.

There's no schooling, no society, no issues, no media, nothing.

It's all going to have to be in the church, and if we don't do it, it's going to fail.

That's where the crisis comes in, because there's no more accepting of our

basically Christian worldview, and so therefore this has all been slammed, angered at,

opposed, minimized, so Titus teaches there must be preaching in Titus 1, there must

also be discipleship in Titus 2, and I don't know, Christi, if you want me to go to the third, I think there's a third

one, and that's training.

It's not just that we have relationship.

It's not just that we have, and we must, the tip of the spear is preaching.

It's got to be laid out.

It's got to be clear.

It's got to be unapologetic, but there's got to be that coming alongside, just like Paul came alongside,

follow me as I follow Christ, extending my very life to you, giving you my life, talking about how I'm applying the

scripture, showing you how to do that, but along with this relational discipleship, Titus 2 talks about

training this older women, training the newer, and he gives them the curriculum.

He says, love your husbands, love your children, and be a worker at home.

Well, it's not just telling them to do it.

You're going to have to show them how, and so the training element is actually showing

someone how to live the truth out.

Before you tune out, understand there are a lot of parents, maybe, who are listening to your program

that told their children, okay, we're going to tell you how to drive.

You're going to memorize the drive manual, but they showed them how to drive, right?

They got in the car with them.

They just didn't let them drive.

You made them practice.

Before you hand them the keys of the car, you're making sure they're ready to go, so you practice it.

How many wise dads have taken their daughters out on dates so that they know how they will be

treated and how they should be treated?

How many moms have taken their sons out so later on, when there is a relationship, they learn how to act.

They practice it.

How many coaches make their players, yes, memorize the playbook, watch films, but they

practice on the field over and over again?

That's what part of parenting is.

That's what the local church has got to buy into.

We need to do this.

John Calvin walked around Geneva with pastors he was training.

He showed them how to pastor.

He didn't just tell them.

He didn't just teach them.

He showed them.

Luther had his table talks, walking through how this is done, and Jesus did it himself.

We all believe that Jesus, everything he said was true.

We also believe that everything he did was the best, and what he did in Mark chapter 6 is he sent his men

out two by two.

They went out.

They practiced ministry, and when you drop back into Mark chapter 6 and chapter 6 verse 30,

not only did they Mark chapter 6 verse 7, send them out two by two, but when they came back in

verse 30, they gathered together with Jesus, and they reported to him all that they had

done and all that they had taught.

He trained them by making them in practice.

He did a debrief with them after his time with them, and this is, I believe, what Paul's calling for.

He's calling for the word to be taught, the tip of the spear.

He's talking for the discipleship and this investment and relationship to occurring in the lives of

individuals.

This is a normative for the church.

It shouldn't be the exception.

This is the great commandment and the great commission at work in the context of the church, loving relationships

and then making disciples that they're going, baptizing and teaching them to obey all that I commanded.

They're coming under the authority of the word of God in every aspect of their lives.

Teaching them to obey all I've commanded and then they're being shown and made to

practice the role of men and the role of women.

They're not going to get it.

No young man and no young women walk down the marriage aisle, and then the

moment they say, I do, becomes the ultimate husband and the ultimate wife.

It just doesn't happen.

They have to be trained in that and they're getting zero input from our society.

Therefore, I think Christ trained his men.

We should train our men.

We need to give them the skills of that.

Again, if you're going to a church where there's no solid doctrine, there's no solid expositional

preaching, you've got to find another church because without that, there's no foundation at all.

Built upon that is where we're missing it.

We're missing the element of discipleship within the context of the church and in the world and we're missing

the element of actually training our young men and women how to be men and how to be women.

We've got to show them the skills and elevate that so that they would do that well and honor Christ

and glorify him and all of that.

I was mentored by John MacArthur and he told me that in the boxing

world, there's a one -two punch and in the ministry world, there's a one -two punch.

You preach the word and you train men.

That's what I think we've got to be about that process and the church has got to pick up the mantle.

I have men after men after men talking to me about training because we do a lot of training in our church.

We're a training church and I'm telling you it's any efforts that are made in this direction

are good efforts.

We've got to get alongside our men, show them, teach them, and train

them.

We've got to teach them and show them and train them so that those three things have to happen within the

context otherwise this crisis is never going to flip around.

We're just going to find that slow but sure the world's going to win out and that's

really the crisis that I wanted to share with you today, just that issue must happen.

I'm sure you've got questions.

Yes, we have Bebe in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania who says I

agree with you 99 .999 but want some clarification.

The.

Description that we have of the Proverbs 31 woman

includes things like she buys land and sells it and is obviously

involved in some kind of business fashion that is not necessarily within the confines of a

home.

We have Lydia, the seller of purple, who is obviously making a living selling very

expensive cloth.

How does that jive with the Betty Crocker stereotype of a woman?

I don't mean any disrespect to Betty Crocker.

As long as she doesn't mean any disrespect to the scripture because I don't really care what I say.

I only care what God says.

Being a worker at home doesn't really address that issue.

Do you work outside of that?

Do you make efforts to earn money within the context of your home?

Do you have home crafts and home businesses?

We have very industrious women at our church that have a lot going on.

They're very busy, but their home is their priority.

Really what you're finding here, even when Paul talks to Timothy about widows in

1 Timothy 5, he says get those women to remarry and have

them be, and he uses the term, home despot, the home ruler.

This is their sphere.

Listen, I am not in any way demeaning women at all.

Our women at our church are impactful for the kingdom.

They minister to our women.

We have our women minister to our women.

They know how to do it.

Better than anybody.

We have women meeting women in parks and evangelistically.

We have women training women and raising their young ones.

We have a lot going on.

We have a lot of gals that have a lot of business sense.

We do have working wives of older kids during those earlier formative years, but they're still home

when their kids are home.

They're still investing into their home and their husbands.

They're making sure that their home is their priority.

The issue is, where's your heart?

There's nothing wrong with being an industrious woman.

Proverbs 31 proves that point.

We want industrious women.

We don't want lazy women.

We want women who work hard, and they work hard for Christ.

They work dependently upon the Spirit of God, according to the Word of God, and they're trying to accomplish everything they can for His glory.

We don't divide those kind of lines.

It's, where's your heart at, and are you investing into your kids?

Again, it's very difficult for a mom with young ones to be working outside the home.

Otherwise, then you're giving up your motherly responsibilities to those really young ones,

to some sitter or some relative or whatever.

That's your job.

We don't give an age breakdown.

We don't talk about that, but we just say, where's your heart?

Are you going to pursue this, and are you going to see God bless it?

We do.

We have Cindy.

I will ask you Cindy's question, and I'll have you answer it when we return from our final break.

We have Cindy in Findlay, Ohio.

You stated, and many in the church agree, myself included, that our country is under the judgment of God, as

explained in Romans 1.

Other than the sin of abortion, what do you think has brought this judgment upon us?

Is it sin within the church?

Is it sin in society as a whole or a combination of the two?

And I'll have you answer that when we return.

We're going to our final break right now.

If anybody has any questions that they'd like to also ask, please send them immediately because we're

rapidly running out of time.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least.

City and state and country of residence.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my long -time friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd on a theme that I've been preaching, teaching,

writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Vody Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott

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Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is Dr. Joe

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If you've been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Moorcraft and Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming,

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I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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Welcome back.

Pastor Chris, Cindy in Findlay, Ohio asked you, and I'm assuming it was

based largely upon the discussion on homosexuality, why

is this country in your opinion under judgment,.

This nation?

Well, our country experienced really decades and

decades of unusual blessing because of the respect for biblical truth that was

established at the very beginning of its founding and for almost, I don't know,

150 plus years.

But that's no longer the case and they have drifted from God's

design and are now absolutely opposed to biblical truth.

And therefore, God has let them over to lust and then to homosexuality and now to a

depraved mind.

As far as the church is concerned, I would say that we are responsible as well because we have

allowed the church to move away from a solid gospel that is

completely by grace through faith in Christ, that there is a

gospel that doesn't just justify you and make you righteous because of the work of Christ on your behalf

and his death and resurrection, but also he regenerates, he transforms and

causes people to have new hearts, that all things become new and they want to follow him, they want to obey him, Romans

6, 17.

And therefore, we've really moved away from that transformational regeneration

kind of gospel.

We have weak gospel.

We don't teach the word in the churches today where we're understanding what God meant by what God

said when God said it through his chosen apostles and prophets and we're not discipling.

We're not coming alongside and actually mentoring and having the kind of community that actually demonstrates the oneness of

God and in our relationships really glorifying him and we're not training.

We're not doing a good job of that as well.

So all those things would lead me to say this is why we're seeing the decline and the thing that

has to happen is the church has to step up and that's really the light and salt

that God has given, he's put into place and it doesn't matter where the society goes, doesn't matter where governments go, the

church is going to always be the church and it's going to be the beacon of God's

ministry throughout the context of the world as well as in our own country.

So that's really my answer to that question.

It's both and obviously my passion would be that we

would teach the word, disciple men, and train them and the key is that we're going to hand the keys to the next

generation.

No question.

They're going to get it.

We're going to die.

If the Lord tarries, we're going to pass on and they're going to be running the show.

The question is are we going to hand the keys to them or are they going to pry them out of our cold, dead hand?

The issue is are we going to pass on the truth and help them and come alongside them and have

them be all that God intends them to be?

And so in fact, my job, my desire even as a parent is that my sons

would exceed me in their investment for the kingdom and that my church would actually exceed

what I've experienced with them and go beyond that.

You know, as Paul exhorted, the church is to excel still more in these areas of love and

outreach and the gospel and the word, etc.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York.

Time for a final question.

I heard earlier Chris Arnzen announce a debate that may be coming up

where a person identifies themselves as a gay Christian.

Is that ever a proper thing to do to identify yourself as a part of the

body of Christ according to a sin that you struggle with?

Yeah, I think that if you want to go announce and say, well, I'm a drunkard Christian

or I'm a.

Proud.

Christian, it's kind of an oxymoron.

If you're a Christian, you have been changed, transformed, and you want what God wants.

You desire to follow his word.

You desire to obey his word.

And therefore, you're not going to want to call yourself a gay Christian.

You've repented of that.

You've turned from that.

They turned from idols to God.

They've turned from their sin to follow Christ.

It's not something that you're identifying with.

You're now identifying with Christ and what he wants and not what you used to be and not what

you were.

So, calling yourself a gay Christian is saying, well, I'm still gay.

You're not still gay.

And plus, I don't like that word gay anyway.

So, you're not still homosexual.

You're not.

You've repented.

You say, I'm not that way anymore.

Otherwise, you didn't come to Christ according to 1 Corinthians 6 -9 -11.

So therefore, you don't want to tag on that level of label because it's

identifying yourself with your past.

It's something that you should want to have put aside that you're literally ashamed of in a

sense because we're all ashamed of our sin when we come to the cross and we're saying, I don't want

that.

I'm broken under my sin.

I mourn as the Beatitudes say.

I'm broken under that.

I hate my sin and therefore, I want to be what Christ wants me to be.

Well, we're out of time and I want to make sure that I announce the websites that are

relevant to my guest today, Chris Mueller.

The church where he pastors is faith -bible .net.

Faith -bible .net.

Faith -bible .net.

And that's Faith Bible Church of Marietta, California.

Also, don't forget about the G3 conference where he will be on the very long speaking roster.

G3men .org is the website where you can find out more about that and register as well.

G3men .org and don't forget to use the promo code.

G3ISIR.

Which is the promo code for Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

G3ISIR.

That will get you 30 off the registration fee for the G3 conference which is

September 21st through the 23rd in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Well, thank you so much, Pastor Chris.

You've been a remarkable guest.

I look forward to you returning to the show.

I want to thank everybody who listened, especially those who took the time to write.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you

are a sinner.

Amen.