Church Councils & Controversies

Contending for the Truth

So this is lesson number seven in the book forerunners of the faith. Lesson number seven is titled controversies and counsels Doctrinal debates in the late patristic period and early Middle Ages. So if you want to look at the key verse, this is from 2nd, John 2nd John only has one chapter.

So 2nd John 9 It says anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ Does not have God and the one who abides in the teaching. He has both the Father and the Son. So section number one is titled contending for the truth.

There's a lot of review in this from lesson five. So we're gonna kind of go through the first council of Nicaea we're gonna go through that quickly since we've already talked about it, but just as a An introduction it says the New Testament predicts the coming of false teachers Who seek to undermine the truth in distort sound doctrine from within the church in Matthew 7 15?

Jesus warned beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. And going through this. I mean, I really feel like I've just been talking about this so much Over the past.

I don't know how long I Start to think to myself, you know, am I talking about it too much? Obviously we had the controversy here locally this past year and I pray 2024 we don't hear any more about it.

That's probably unlikely but you know, the point of bringing it up is Here it is like just wherever you turn this subject it's in the book. It's in the Bible, whatever New Testament letter you're reading through they all address this subject except for Philemon.

So Again, I know I've said it before I'll say it again. It's a major theme in the Bible, especially the New Testament. So hey, if you feel like I'm talking about it too much you see it in the book, right?

Like this isn't just another opportunity for me to talk about my favorite subject or anything.

Larry.

Yeah, yeah.

Right, right.

Yeah, and so that everybody is kind of solid on this topic and then you can go out and just you know You'll be able to pass this along the the importance of the subject acts. 20 verses 28 through 31 says in the book the Apostle Paul Similarly similarly instructed the Ephesian elders be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock.

I know that after my departure Savage wolves will come in among you not sparing the flock. Speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after them. Therefore be on alert and I can only imagine what the Apostle Paul would say This past week when you you all heard the news that the Pope Declared that the Catholic Church will now officially bless same-sex Unions that is officially their Doctrine now.

So what would the Apostle Paul say? Yeah, man speaking perverse things this is what he said back then so I can only imagine what he would say Peter told his readers. So you see Jesus talked about a Paul talked about a Peter talked about a second Peter 2 1 but false prophets Also arose among the people just as there will also be false teachers among you who will secretly introduce Destructive heresies even denying the master who bought them bringing swift destruction upon themselves and Notice it says they will secretly introduce Destructive heresies.

Well, how gonna be secret if they're teaching it to the congregation? Here's how they start. Little, you know, it's incremental steps a pastor says something in a sermon. You're like what that doesn't sound right?

But there's plausible Deniability where if you talk to him, well, that's not really what I meant, but he gets away with it. So the next time he takes it a step further. Then a step further and then a step and then you know five years down the road the it's like the frog in the Pot of boiling water.

You don't realize that it's too late until it's too late. So that's how they do it incremental steps. Second John 7 the Apostle John explained that many deceivers have gone out into the world those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ is coming in the flesh.

This is a deceiver and the Antichrist and then Jude warns about people who crept in unaware. Okay, so Point being what? Like all the Apostles of Jesus talked about it. All the New Testament books are talking about it.

So it says as errors arose in the early centuries of church history the true church Responded by defending what Scripture teaches and clearly articulating the truth in the face of heretical Attack, so the main thing in the early church today.

We're dealing with our own issues back in the early church, who is Jesus his Person his work his nature human nature divine nature. That was the big subject early on. Today that should just be a given.

We shouldn't have to go back and Debate about because it's already been settled. So now we're dealing with new things. But back then it's mainly the person of and this is the most important subject who is Jesus.

Making sure you get that right says here. This should be in your book as well after the Emperor Constantine brought peace to Christians living in the Roman Empire in the early 4th century Church leaders were able to address the major heresies of their day by organizing.

What what did you have written in? Yes synods and councils synods and councils. Yeah, you've maybe heard of the Missouri synod if you're gonna hear that word today. It's like the council for the Lutheran Church.

I think it's one of the denominations. So synods and council somebody asked me our our church is still having councils today. Well as far as an ecumenical council where the entire church comes together.

No, because the church is fractured, right? You have the Catholic Church Protestants independent church it like it would be Impossible to bring every professing church. And of course, we're not even recognizing each other as legitimate legitimate churches anymore.

So Catholics and Protestants wouldn't come together, but back in the early days before the Roman Catholic Church was a thing. They had ecumenical council. So all the counts all the churches in the Empire came together.

That is still happening within the Catholic Church the last Council they call it an ecumenical council. It was what and when did it happen? Who knows? It was that called Vatican to and it happened in the 1960s.

So this is where the Catholic Church radically changed in the 1960s, but denominations are still doing this. They're coming together in Discussing important issues, but again, it's within denominations that this still occurs.

Yes.

What do you call your gathering of local.

Evangelical pastors, what is that? Oh, yeah. Well, so we had I and I told you about this we had 14 different evangelical churches all come together in November and we held something like a church council and We all were in agreement except like maybe one guy was sort of in agreement, but maybe not time will tell but Churches, okay.

I would call it a council. I mean it was it was unofficial because every church is independent. So it's not it's not like we're a denomination and it's binding because any church can decide what what they want to do at any Given moment, but yeah, I would call it a council.

It's very small on a local level, but that is the right way to determine things like we can handle things in our church the pastor the deacons and the members can all get together and Deal with something if we have to deal with it.

But when it's affecting all the churches in the county or potentially could affect all the church That's the right way to do it for all the pastors to come together and that's what took place. So in a sense, we are doing that as well.

Okay. So the largest of these councils were organized by the emperors themselves and Involved church leaders from all over the Roman world. These councils are known as quote what? Ecumenical. Ecumenical councils because they included all the churches in the Empire.

So the word ecumenical back then it it has a different meaning today. When you hear the word ecumenical, what does that mean? Yeah, ecumenical.

Yeah.

What.

It is.

Originally ecumenical meant just the churches in the area came together today. We think of it as in Presbyterians working with Baptists working with Methodists working with which is Good, it's fine. As long as all these churches are actually preaching the truth so, you know, that's the sticking point but.

Because if you said that The reason why I say it's bad today or why some people think it's bad is because some churches some people want to set aside Doctrine that it really doesn't matter what you believe.

We're just gonna set doctrine aside and all come together in unity. Well, if you don't have unity in doctrine, you don't really have unity. So it's a fake superficial unity where you just smile and Get along.

Well, our unity is in what it's a it's in Christ. So it's important we have the same doctrine the doctrine of Christ, okay in church history. Seven ecumenical councils are generally recognized and there's a whole bunch of other Roman Catholic councils that we do not recognize but there are seven councils that typically Even Protestants would recognize the central theological Issues addressed at those seven councils centered on the person of Jesus Christ in this lesson.

We will focus on the three most important of these seven councils the Council of Nicaea. Who's heard of that council? Of course you have you we already covered it less than five next the Council of Constantinople in 381 who's heard of that?

Okay a few less and then the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD who's heard of Chalcedon? Okay. Now you're getting down into one or two. So the the other four councils will be summarized briefly at the end.

Okay, so it says read 2nd John 7 through 11. Someone want to look that up and.

Read it.

2nd John 7 through 11 In that passage, what was the primary Doctrinal issue that the false teachers were distorting. Who has it wants to read it. Aaron. Go ahead speak speak loudly so we can all hear.

Watch yourselves that you may not lose what we have worked for but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teachings of Christ does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching Do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting for whoever reads him takes part in his wicked works.

Okay, so what's the primary issue being this? Well the doctrine of Christ, but what seemed to be the problem? What was being denied? Yeah, they his humanity that he came in the flesh today. If the church is gonna deny Christ, usually they're denying his deity.

But back then it was it was this it was a big issue of denying his humanity.

Okay.

So let's just quickly review the Council of Nicaea because like I said we already covered it in lesson 5. So I don't want to spend a lot of time on it. It says in your book. The key issue was the deity of Christ.

The context. Go back see lesson 5, but this was basically areas the false well, he was a priest or a bishop and he areas taught the false doctrine basically denying the deity of Christ saying that Christ was Lesser than God the Father.

He was not of the same substance. So basically areas held to the view that Christ was a created being. And this is known as the Aryan heresy and today the Jehovah's Witnesses still believe in the Aryan heresy.

They deny the deity of Christ also seventh-day Adventist. There's a large section of their church that also is Aryan and denies that. Now not all of them believe that but a lot of them do so this is still a problem even.

Today. Yes.

A.

Ri a n. Yeah, so this is arias. A ri us is his name. It's not like Aryan ism with like the Nazis like that's a totally separate thing, right? Well, it's pronounced area what if I misspelled it before it is Aryan ism is typically how it's so denying the deity of Christ Jesus was a created being arias was condemned as a heretic at the Council of Nicaea and out came the Nicene Creed.

Which we already discussed one point. I do want to bring up again. Remember, you know, this is Christmas Eve and a lot of people have this Tradition part of Christmas where they believe in Santa Claus or tell their kids about Santa that's a whole other subject that I'd love to talk about but Then I'd make people mad so then I don't.

But Santa Claus is based on this historic figure named st Nicholas who was a bishop at the Council of Nicaea and The story goes that he actually smacked Arius in the face because Arius with us was the heretic denying the deity of Christ and st. Nicholas Clocked him one.

I we don't know if that's true and technically pastors are not supposed to be strikers. You're not supposed to be brawlers. So he probably shouldn't have done that if it happened, but we'll give him a pass.

It's Christmas time after all, right?

Yes.

Anyway, so that's the Council of Nicaea all dealing with the deity of Christ. So now let's look at the Council of Constantinople. This occurred and the year 381 and these councils lasted sometimes for months.

It wasn't like our local council that you know, two and a half hours and we were done. No, this is uh, this is a drawn-out process. So the key issue was what? The deity and humanity of Christ and the deity of the Holy Spirit, so The Holy Spirit really wasn't discussed so much at the Council of Nicaea.

Now. This is a bigger issue. So the context this should be in your book in spite of the Nicene Creed the false teachings of Arius continued to be very popular in the Roman Empire the view of homo homo a oceanus, right?

There's homo oceanus homo a oceanus. Technical terms we don't need to worry about that right now, but the view that the Son of God is of a Similar but different substance than the Father this was Popular in the Roman Empire.

It's again boil it down. It's denying the deity of Christ Athanasius along with other church leaders like Basil of Caesarea Gregory of Nyssa and Gregory of Misonius they continued to defend the doctrine of Christ's equality to the father.

So this is the idea the orthodox teaching Christ is co equal co eternal with the father in Rejecting the doctrine of the so that we call this the Trinity one God three persons Father Son Holy Spirit co eternal co equal.

In rejecting the doctrine of the Trinity the followers of Arius also denied.

Who?

The Holy Spirit.

Proponents of this view were known as Pneumato McKeon's. If I'm pronounced, there's a lot of difficult words that I've never even seen before. So pneumato McKeon's denying the Holy Spirit. It means that word means combatters against the Spirit.

Basil of Caesarea refuted their views in his work titled on the Holy Spirit. So a new heresy about Christ called a Apollinarian ism also arose. The creator of this view a Paulin Arius of Laodicea taught that although Jesus possessed a human body He did not have a human spirit or soul.

Instead his physical body was like a shell occupied by a divine mind. So if somebody if a pastor got up and Jesus didn't have a spirit He was his body was like a shell possessed by the divine mind. That would probably sound strange to you.

Well, it should sound strange because it was condemned as as a heresy. So yeah.

Right.

Right. Yeah, and I don't know if the Church of Laodicea was What I would assume it was still in existence, but they were bad in the first century. So by the time he's teaching this probably same along those same lines, yeah.

Yeah, this is how he can be our high priest like the book of Hebrews talks about Jesus. He can sympathize with our weaknesses because he lived he was a man. He lived his life and dealt with the same types of things as we do.

But this doctrine would deny that right? So because of all of this the Emperor Theodosius in 395 he called this council to convene the Council of Constantinople and it lasted for three months. So here are the positions.

Going over to the next page. This should be in your book. There was Arianism, right? We talked about that what that is a poly and Arianism and then the third position was Trinitarianism which one's correct?

Yeah trinitarian Christians today true believers are Trinitarian and when a church or a denomination is not Trinitarian they are Considered a what? Cult right. So the Mormons Jehovah's Witnesses Some of the Seventh-day Adventists Christian science.

They all deny the doctrine of the Trinity. That's why they historically have been considered a cult. They're teaching wrong things about who Christ was the nature of God. Yes.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, so there's a there are churches that have Trinitarian in the name and Back when these churches started the one in Northfield, which I don't know that much about except I saw the rainbow out front.

So that tells me something. When they started out they're called Trinitarian, so yeah, they had a correct Belief of the Trinity, but you know, that was a couple hundred years ago and they had a lot of times I'm sure they would still give lip service to the Trinity on some level if it's in the name.

But are they are they teaching the truths of Scripture? Obviously not. Okay, because every church is teaching something that's correct, right? But is is the gospel being preached? That's the first thing you want to look at.

Okay, so this is the Council of Nicaea or excuse me Constantinople. Or Chalcedon. Sorry, I'm getting mixed up Constantinople. Sorry. So those were the positions. Trinitarianism is the correct view. Okay, let's just move on here to the Council of Chalcedon so this occurred in the year 451 so we're getting we're getting a ways away from the time of the Apostles the key issue at the Church of Chalcedon is what.

Yeah, the two natures of Christ his deity and his humanity so. They're different things came up. But yeah, it's like we're still dealing with the same type of Subject. Oh, by the way, there was the Creed of Constantinople.

Which said we believe in the Holy Spirit the Lord and giver of life who proceeds from the Father and the Son. Who is to be worshiped and glorified with the Father and the Son who spoke through the prophets?

So the doctrine of the Holy Spirit should have been settled there. At Chalcedon though now we're dealing with Christ and his deity deity and his humanity. It says the Council of Constantinople had affirmed the true deity and true humanity of Christ the eternal Son of God and the second member of the Trinity.

He took on flesh and became a man in his incarnation. But questions remained. This is the Council of Chalcedon. Questions remained as to how these two natures the divine and the human nature. How they related to one another in the person of Jesus?

This question would be addressed at the Council of Chalcedon. Okay, so the Emperor Marcion, he's the one who called the council. He had denounced an earlier council that met in Ephesus and 449 as being illegitimate the Council of Chalcedon was convened to override it some 370 bishops attended including the Bishop of Rome.

Who lived from 440 to 461? Why is that significant? Because the Bishop of Rome is supposedly. Who the Pope? Okay, but this is the this is the 400s. So he wasn't the Pope back then. He was just the Bishop of Rome.

You know be like someone being a pastor in New York City there. They have a higher profile than then pastors out in the sticks, right? So some people would view them as more important and that's what happened with the Bishop of Rome.

This is the capital of the Empire. So people kind of viewed him as a little more significant because of that position. But over time it developed into this claim of the papacy where he's in charge of the whole church.

That was not the case back then. Okay. Actually, wait, it says he was unable to attend but he sent a letter. Called his to me to be read at the council. So he wasn't even there. Excuse me. Got ahead of myself and I think that's significant, but here are the positions some more difficult words Probably new tell me.

Are you familiar with these terms? Nestorianism.

No uticchianism and.

Then the hypostatic Union. What about that? You should have heard probably the hypostatic Union. All right. So let's go through these Nestorianism. This view divided the two natures of Christ putting a wall of separation Between them to the point that he was viewed as two persons.

See the correct view of God. There's one God and how many persons? Three fathers. Fathers and spirit, yep Christ though is one person but with two natures. But this teaching Nestorianism it it made Jesus into like two two people two persons.

There is a debate as to whether Nestorius who is the Archbishop of Constantinople Actually held the view associated with his name. In summary Nestorianism asserted that Christ possessed two natures and therefore was two persons,.

I mean that's just to me that's Bizarre. Like it is obviously not true. How can Christ be two people two persons? Well, I assume they had to say he was in one body, but two persons in one body again, it's This is strange doctrine.

Okay, the next Thing they had to deal with uticchianism in response to Nestorianism Eutychius. That's his name. He emphasized that Jesus Christ was a single person with a single divine nature. The human nature was either Eclipsed by the divine nature or mixed together with the divine resulting in a hybrid nature.

In summary eutychianism Argued that Christ was only one person and therefore possessed only one nature. What's the problem with this?

Right.

The correct view. Jesus is truly God and truly man. Basically Eutychius said he's not a man. He's he's truly God fully God. But this is just a fancy way of denying the humanity of Christ. Okay, so these are the two errors and now the third one this this is the correct view.

Okay, this is called the hypostatic Union. Leo who is at the council? He articulated a position that avoided the errors of both Nestorianism and Eutychianism and he affirmed that Christ in his incarnation possessed two natures Divine and human.

If Jesus is both truly God and truly man the integrity of each nature must be preserved. Yet at the same time Leo also affirmed that Christ is a single person and Becoming a man Jesus did not become Multiple persons.

In summary Leo's position asserted that Christ is a single person who possesses two nature. Okay, and the result of the council was Leo's position was affirmed. Okay, that's the true position of the church the writings of Eutychius and his followers.

They were condemned in the council preceded produced a creed to articulate the Orthodox position that Chalcedonian creed which I'll read in a moment, but I Understand some of you are probably thinking this, you know, you're hearing these terms.

I had never heard this before and it's really Complicated and It's like this. I know this matters. You're probably thinking like I get this is important. But what difference does this make to me today?

Well, you know just this is you you go to school and you learn things they You know, you think it doesn't matter but somehow it does and someday we'll figure out how but yes, why do you think it matters?

Explainable, right. Our minds can't grasp. Yep, and that's where we can fall into error becoming full of ourselves and our own knowledge and thinking. You've got the corner market on the information and a new thought and.

Like that Eutychian thing. I've never heard of that. But it sounds like he's trying to explain how God can be both fully God and fully man. Right, and he came up with a finite earthly explanation, which of course brings us into heresy because it isn't finite, right?

Yeah.

Today I think that's why we see so many different denominations falling away. From the pure teaching of Christ because they're trying to explain and make it fit Their concept instead of just accepting that there are things we can't understand.

Sure sure.

Mike.

Yeah.

What will AI come up with. Someone's going to put in a formula and Artificial intelligence will give us a whole new. Actually there was one article that AI was going to produce its own Bible or something like who knows what's going to happen in the future, but You know artificial intelligence.

It's supposed to be way above our intelligence and maybe it is but I think there's a there's a danger when a pastor or somebody that they're reading the Bible and Sometimes they might have the right intentions trying to explain something that's really difficult.

But there are some people they want they want to come up with something brand new there are there are some movements some churches where the pastor wants to be on the cutting edge and He wants to tell somebody he wants to tell his church something.

They've never heard before so he cooks up some. And I I've seen this before. That's a real danger. Our job is to teach The scripture not to come up with some brand new thing to amaze people because they've never heard it before.

I mean you're on some thin ice when you're doing that. Statement. You've probably heard this if it's new. It's probably not true if it's true. It's probably not new. Like we've had the Bible the church churches have had the Bible for 2 ,000 years.

You're gonna come up with something new like I don't think so. Not to say it couldn't happen. But yeah, that's that's a danger. Okay, so the yes.

When these false teachers or false prophets or whatever Come into a church They will go for the the person that's that's we for that's isolated in the same the same way that wolves or Or, you know, we'll pick off the weak in a herd that's what will happen is.

Those that are you know They're in a good sound church and then one of these guys will come in and start telling all the list. No, no. Yeah, the pastor said this but There's not that's not really a hell.

Don't worry about right, right. I'll say oh boy, that's good to hear and then I'll say yeah. You should come to our Saturday night Bible study at my house, right?

Right. Here's here's one reason that matters as long as the church is still teaching Doctrine and truth is is right up the top of importance. Once people understand that and you're used to that it guards and protects the church from all these other Heresies, but as soon as we say, oh, okay doctrine doctor just doctrine schmuck trend, you know.

We'll just kind of put that aside. Well, once a church gets used to that then you're susceptible. It's like an immune system. You lose your immune system and you can die of a thousand different diseases.

So it's important that we talk about this, even if even if you don't see the relevance of it In your personal life today. It's still important. Yes.

So for reproof. Nobody likes to be told you're wrong. For correction. Oh, no. No, I got everything, right? Yeah, so right.

Okay, the Chalcedonian Creed here. It is following the Holy Fathers We unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son our Lord Jesus Christ the same perfect Divinity and perfect inhumanity the same truly God and truly man composed of rational soul and body consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity in Consubstantial with us as to his humanity like us and all things but sin he was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and In these last days for us and for our salvation was born as to his humanity of the Virgin Mary and the.

Bearer of.

God or the Virgin Mary who is called in this Creed the bearer of God. Now that's gonna lead to a whole other thing. You've heard of Mary. Some people call her what? Mary mother of God. They have a statue a porcelain statue in the backyard.

There's the mother of God there. Right, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, okay. Last section of the Creed last part. We confess that one and the same Christ Lord and only begotten Son is to be acknowledged in two natures without confusion change division or separation.

The distinction between Natures was never abolished by their union or the hypostatic union but rather the character proper to each of the two natures was preserved as they came together in one person and.

One.

Hypostasis or one substance. Okay now you get into the reference to Mary as the bearer of God was a title affirmed by the Council of Ephesus in 431. Now there's a term for this I think. I don't know if it's Latin Theotokos, but it means mother of God.

So, let me just ask you is Mary the mother of God? Who says no Mary is not the mother of God. Who say she. Who says she is the mother of God. Okay. Okay, so one brave soul says now she is the mother. Here's the thing.

She did give birth to Jesus Christ. Who was?

God.

Right.

Is God, right. Jesus Christ is God. Thank you. So in a sense there is truth to the statement. Right. Mary is the mother of God in the sense that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully man.

Yeah.

But it's wrong to say that Mary is the mother of God like she did not give she did not produce God. God did not come from Mary, but Mary is a creature created by God. So if mother of God Theotokos is a reference to Christ deity and that's all it was intended to be yeah, I think it creates confusion because there's Cathedral Catholic cathedrals in Europe where they have the Apostles down here Jesus is here.

God is here and Mary's on the top. Well that that's a problem. It is conveying that she's like she's it. She's at that. That's how some Catholics view it. But that's not so it depends on. What you mean by that?

Okay, I. Yeah, I think it creates more confusion so I don't think it's helpful but the line that says that Jesus possessed two natures without confusion change division or Separation is a response to both eutychianism and Nestorianism.

The Remaining Ecumenical Councils

Okay, so we talked about the church councils. We have five minutes left. Let's just finish this up. There are four other Ecumenical councils, there is the Council of Ephesus and 431 the Council of Constantinople and 553 third Council of Constantinople and 680 and then the second Council of Nicaea in 787.

Okay, so let me just go through these quickly. If you have any questions, you can raise your hand. Yeah, five minutes we need questions, okay. In 431 Council of Ephesus at this Council the church sought to protect the doctrine of Christ's deity.

Even in his incarnation. Accordingly, they affirmed that the proper title for Mary the term Theotokos Mean meaning bearer of God, so they affirmed this, okay. The purpose behind the title was not to elevate Mary but to safeguard the deity of Christ.

So if that's the case, okay, I can kind of hold my nose and say yes I I understand what you're saying in the incarnation God the Son Took on flesh and became human when Mary gave birth to Jesus the baby in the manger was God incarnate.

Okay.

That's the Council of Ephesus the second Council of Constantinople and 553 says in the east. Even after the Council of Chalcedon there remained a significant number of people who rejected the hypostatic Union.

Insisting instead that Christ possessed a single nature the advocates of this view were called what? Monophysites, here's another term mono meaning one and the second part of the word meaning nature. So Emperor Justinian convened a council to address the controversy over the issue.

The council affirmed that the council. The council affirmed the Council of Chalcedon but also condemned the writings of three earlier theologians who had been associated with Nestorius by condemning these earlier theologians.

Justinian hope to improve relations with the monophysites. Here's the problem back then with these with the Roman Empire. This was a political problem because right everybody in the Empire professed to be a Christian even though not we realized not everyone was a Christian, but if you had division over some Religious issue it actually threatened to divide the Empire.

That's not the case today. There's not some religious issue Christians are debating and you know. It's it's in the it's in the presidential debate because it's threatening to split the country like this.

It's not a problem today because Americans don't care about Doctrine and you know the majority don't but back then this was a real issue in the Roman Empire it could it could create political division as well as Division in the church because the two were kind of connected, right?

So you see how important this was overall the Third Council of Constantinople in 680. The primary question answered at this council was whether Christ possessed one will or two wills in Keeping with the church's teaching that Christ possessed two natures the council affirmed that he likewise possessed Two wills the divine and human.

The council was careful to clarify that Christ's human will is always in perfect submission to in accordance with his divine will and Then finally the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 in the 7th and 8th centuries a major debate erupted in the east over the veneration of Icons or images of Jesus and the Saints.

I'd love to take some time and talk about this. So some of the Emperor's were concerned that icons of Jesus in particular. They violated the second commandment Exodus 20 verse 4 and thus constituted idolatry.

So, you know that picture of Jesus where he's got the long brown hair and the beard and he's kind of looking off. The distance who's seen that pixel. It's like classic so a lot of churches would have had a picture like that and people would have You know done the cross or bowed in front of it and it's like whoa.