Interviews from Shepherds Conference Chris Hohnholz and Tom Buck

Andrew Rappaport's Rapp Report

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On this episode of The Rap Report, we're going to have more of the interviews that I took while I was at Shepard's Conference.

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This is going to get a little personal. I'm just saying there is something I'm going to play from another podcast later on that kind of made me cry.

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Yes. But fortunately, you didn't hear that. I didn't play it live, so you won't hear that part of it, which

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I'm so glad for. But here are some interviews coming up on today's Rap Report.

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Welcome to The Rap Report with Andrew Rappaport, where we provide biblical interpretations and applications.

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This is the Ministry of Striving for Eternity and the Christian Podcast Community. For more content or to request a speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity .org.

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Okay, we had some interviews that I took while I was out at Shepard's Conference.

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We are still playing through those. We do hope to be able to play some of the messages from the

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Sanctification Through Suffering Conference. Working on those audios, hopefully we will have those coming up for you.

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A lot of people have been wanting those and wanted to hear what Justin Peters and Frank Mullis and others had said at that conference.

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It was a great conference, and so we will try to get that to you. But what we have today is some interviews.

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First up, the guys from Theology Driven drove all the way to California, and here is my interview with them.

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Yeah, oops. They didn't drive to California, no. They didn't show up. So we have no interview with the guys at Theology Driven.

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They are still driving somewhere, probably. But it's a good podcast. They are just driving somewhere, maybe.

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But we did have an interview that I was able to get with a friend of mine. I hope that this really helps you to appreciate what we are doing at Shepard's Conference.

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Why do so many people go out there, and what are they looking for? This interview with Chris Honholz from Voice of Reason Radio, it was his first time going there, and he was very impacted.

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I hope that you will appreciate this interview. All right, so here

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I am at Shepard's Conference, and I am again with an award -winning podcaster, and this time with the

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Voice of Reason himself, Chris Honholz. It is his first time at Shepard's Conference, and we are going to get an idea of how he feels the conference is and what he has been blessed by.

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I have absolutely been blessed, although now I am stuck here listening to you mess with me again, totally twisting everything

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I say and do. But yes, I am having a wonderful time here. Thank you. What have

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I twisted? Name one thing. Well, let's see. I am not the Voice of Reason, because the show itself is

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Voice of Reason Radio, and we have always said the Voice of Reason is God's Word, not me.

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Don't ever call me that. I am nothing, not even close to the Voice of Reason. Okay, so as the one gentleman here said, you are the voice of Voice of Reason.

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Is that it? I guess if you wanted to go with that, you could, yeah. One of two voices, because my buddy

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Rich can't be here. Well, we will have to work on that. So, shout out

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Rich, you know what is coming. So, this is your first Shepard's Conference.

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What have you been most blessed by so far, and it is only day two? I think one of the biggest things that is such a huge blessing is seeing this large gathering of men dedicated to coming together to learn and be edified and strengthened for the express purpose of preaching the gospel in their churches, taking the good word back.

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So, they are coming here for a specific reason, to be informed, strengthened, edified, and taught.

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And that is so contradictory to what the rest of the world does with conferences. It is about elevating you, about making you a better person.

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These guys are coming here humbly to be taught, so they can go out and be better preachers of the Word, better undershepherds of the

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Word of God. And as Pastor MacArthur said on his first talk, the servant that you are supposed to be is like the third level lower galley slave rowing the ship.

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And nobody here balked at that, nobody got freaked out by that. They all just nodded their heads in amen, and that is what they are here for.

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And to see that kind of gathering coming together, it reminds me of Elijah standing in the wilderness going,

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God, I am all by myself, and God says, no, I have got 7 ,000 that haven't bowed the knee to Baal.

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That is what these men are. They are those who have not bowed the knee, and they have come here to go out and preach

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God's Word. That is what blesses me. And it is not just that. As you and I just experienced, as we were sitting down just to have lunch, there is a lot more than just the preaching that goes on here.

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It is also the fellowship and some of the interaction with folks. So, how is that for you?

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That is what I think is one of the more amazing aspects of it, is when you are coming together in an environment like this, you don't have to be concerned about, am

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I dealing with heretics? Am I dealing with false teaching? Everybody here, maybe there are differences in our areas of theology that we can debate and discuss, but generally we are all on the same page.

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So you can sit down and talk to someone about an issue that you are dealing with, or have questions about, and you are learning from each other.

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You are being built up by other brethren who have come here for the same reason. And so that is an amazing thing to watch unfold.

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There is not a fear. We are not going to sit here and worry about, is this guy going to judge me for this teaching or that teaching?

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They are here to learn and to grow and to build each other up. Having been here at Shepherds Conference for many years,

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I have actually found out that a lot of guys come here when they are at a point in their church where they are at frustration, ready to give up, ready to quit, and they kind of come here almost to revitalize them, to get them charged up again.

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We had seen here at lunch, just sitting and talking, and hearing one brother, a younger brother even, admonishing an older brother to do something and just receiving it well.

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I think there is a lot of that sweet fellowship. And really what it was, and we saw it around the table here, it was what we share in Christ.

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How much is that kindred spirit, how much do you sense that here at Shepherds Conference?

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I think it is palpable. You can see it. You are standing in line and you just start a conversation with someone.

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And the first thing we want to know is who are you, where are you serving, what is your story. It is not an inquisition.

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It is a genuine desire to know who you are and why you are here and why you are serving. And what are you learning and what are you gaining.

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And it is a joy. There is genuine joy between brethren getting together and talking and learning about each other.

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Like I said, it is literally palpable. You can feel it everywhere you go. Now, there has been a problem you have had at this conference,

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I think. Besides me. You have had a problem.

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There is a certain tent, I think, that you have been struggling over. Tell us about this tent that you struggle with and what you struggle with when you go in there.

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You are talking about the book tent. It is a rather small tent, right? Yeah, if you call a city block a small tent, sure.

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This is a massive tent. It is actually two components. It has got the book side and it has got the cafeteria area where we sit.

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It is one of the most massive collections of sound theological books I have ever seen.

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If you walked into a Barnes and Noble and took like the bottom floor, that is the

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Shep Kahn book tent. You do not have to worry about it. It is not like walking into a

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Lifeway. It is like 90 % of it is heresy and maybe 5 % is good stuff and 5 % we do not even know how that got in here.

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It is good, solid theological stuff. Every person I have seen has probably made multiple trips around those tables.

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One of the amazing blessings is you come here to Shepard's Conference. They send you home with books as part of the cost of coming, so you get books.

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Then they give you stuff when you walk in the door. I have already got a couple of booklets that way. Then they give you two $25 gift certificates and say go and get more books.

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By the time I go back, I have spent maybe $60 or $70. Do not let my wife hear that.

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I am going to walk back with so much good theology. I have to stay away from Crossway's ESV table because I learned what buttery soft means now.

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I now know what goatskin leather buttery soft means. Oh my! For all you all who had no idea what they were talking about last year when the

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Preacher Bible came out, I now know. Wow! It is an amazing collection of material.

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You could get anything there and nothing you would get would be a bad book. So now you know what your co -host

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Richard Storey, because he knows what buttery soft feels like. So now you could say at least you know, but you do not have.

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Okay. So the $60 you spent, was that the number you want your wife to know about, you said publicly?

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Or is there a higher number? Oh wait, the conference is not over yet. I think Chris has a couple more visits to the book table.

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I have got to stay away from it at this point. I doubt it. I think they purposely put us sitting down to eat right next to where the books are.

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It is just like, are you coveting yet? Are you coveting yet? Talk about the sermons that you have been hearing so far.

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How has it blessed you? What has been the ones that stood out to you so far? Everything I have heard has been absolutely powerful.

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I think Pastor MacArthur's sermon at the beginning where he established what being that servant, being a faithful servant means.

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And literally describing it as the lowest level of the ship, that galley slave rowing the boat.

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That is what servants, if you are a pastor or a minister in that position, that is what the

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Bible describes you as. That is the word that they use. So it is not a, we know it is a high calling from God.

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But it is so needs to be understood that that level of servanthood is what you need to understand of yourself.

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Because you are serving the Master, serving our Lord and Savior. So it is nothing to do with you.

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It is everything to do with Him. So that kind of faithfulness, that you are so willing to be humble.

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And then just recently, just heard Votie Baucom speaking, talking about faithfulness and persecution.

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That the reason we are faithful is because it is God doing that work in us.

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We can't do it of our own accord. We are faithful because it is by the power of God for the purpose of the

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Gospel. And why do we have passion for the Gospel? Because we have passion for our Savior. And that is what carries us through.

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That is why Paul could write to Timothy, I am ready to die. Instead of saying, as he jokingly said, get me the guys that prayed

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Peter out of prison. He says, no, I am trying to tell you, Timothy, to be the type of person that I am about to die.

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You are about to take my place. He can't make that kind of prayer. Because he needs Timothy to stand up and face persecution and preach the

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Gospel no matter what. And how can you then, in turn, ask for that kind of prayer?

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He is willing to put himself on the line, willing to die for the sake of the Gospel, for the Savior. By the power of God.

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Again, faithfulness is not something we muster up. It is something worked in us by God through His Word and through His Spirit.

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I think MacArthur's message was the one I am hearing everyone speak about.

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I think the thing that was amazing, he talked about the celebrity. The modern social media and the way things are with technology.

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You have all these guys that become celebrities. And there is a whole lot more that want to become celebrities.

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They are trying to become celebrities. And he really did an outstanding job of, as you said, he basically said, we are nothing,

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Christ is everything. And that is so needed. Now, you actually have, in your podcast, that is actually a major part of why you and Richard started the podcast,

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Voice of Reason, and what is really behind it. How much do you think that the message that you heard from MacArthur will impact you going back and starting to podcast now?

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Actually, I am hoping that that is something that I don't forget. Because one of the weird things of coming here,

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I have jokingly said, I am like the least qualified person to be here. I am not a minister, I am not an elder, a deacon, of anything of any sort.

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And what is funny is the church I am now attending, those pastors and the men that are there are here.

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And so I came because of people like you who are gracious enough to get me here. They are here because this is where they need to be for that job.

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So I am the least qualified person to be here. But I walk onto this place, and within five minutes, people who have encountered me online are wanting to get to know me, which is so bizarre.

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I am telling you, you guys are strange. You actually want to meet me. But the danger of that, how quickly that can go from just to be blessed by that to, wow, that is cool, and suddenly it is about me and all this stuff.

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That is such a huge danger, even for something as small as Voice of Reason Radio. We are a small podcast with a small following.

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We are grateful for every ear that hears. And I know Andrew has been running around all over this campus trying to get more listeners for us.

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But I think I got about a dozen so far, so I am working on it. We are going for about 50.

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But that being said, it is such a great reminder. You don't have to be someone that gets a massive following to be at risk of the pride and the sin that comes with that celebrity pastor mentality.

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You can be somebody with a tiny following and still have a mega pride monster.

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I was talking with some of the guys earlier, and I don't mean to make this about me, but this is the best I can relate it.

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I looked at him and I said, I don't get it. Why are people interested in wanting to talk to me?

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Because I really don't have any business here. And he made the comment, you have a powerful presence online.

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Now, I don't see that. It is weird, which I am actually kind of grateful for. But I also know my own risk of pride.

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I know how easy it is to want that spotlight. I have dealt with it all my life. So to hear that is such a fantastic reminder.

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Faithfulness is not about getting my name in lights. Faithfulness is not about being recognized on Twitter. It is not about being recognized on Facebook or a blog or a podcast.

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Faithfulness is doing what I am supposed to do, whether anybody is listening or everybody is listening. I am doing it because I want to serve

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God. And that is what we always wanted to do with Voice of Reason Radio. Two things, glorify

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God, edify the saints. If we are not doing that, it isn't worth it. That is an important point.

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MacArthur had talked about the fact that he is 50 years faithful. You don't see that too often, staying at the same church.

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And a lot of what it is, is just sticking to those basic principles. And doing what he was called to do.

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And as we think about it, and we look at what it is like to be that long in ministry, that faithful.

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A lot of it comes down to having your priorities straight. And that is what he was talking about. That is what you talk about on your show.

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And I think that you underestimate the power, the influence, the reach that you have on your show.

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There is a lot of people who are listening. I think more than you are willing to admit. But it is because true

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Christians are hungry to hear the truth proclaimed.

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Even as you guys always say on your show, we are just a bunch of knuckleheads. I like what the one brother here said earlier, you are not.

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You are using the technology, you are proclaiming the truth of God's word. And that is important for us.

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We have a couple more days left of the conference. A couple more days for you to go to the book table. Hold on, hold on.

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Do you hear that? Do you hear that? I think I hear that. That is the sound of an ESV goatskin calling your name.

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I think I can hear it from here, and I am by the worship center. Any last things you want to say before we sign off?

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What I would say is, for those that are listening to this, Pray for every single man that has come here with a desire to grow in the knowledge of the word of God.

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And to be strengthened. Because they are going back to their churches. And they are serving.

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And they have been encouraged. They have been strengthened. And it is great to have this mountain top experience.

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Where you just get to see the glory of God extolled in everything being around you. But then you got to go back and you got to put it all into practice.

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And you got to go back and deal with those same people. And those same problems. Those things you were talking about. People come here beat down, beat up.

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And you come back and you are just on top of the world. Satan and his minions are part of the problem that we have in this world.

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They don't want the glory of God extolled. They don't want Christ preached. So they are going to come back.

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And they are going to face the difficulties of still pastoring in those environments. Pray for these men.

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Pray for them that they are going to look at something like the Shepherds Conference. This is what it is all about.

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And this is what I need to be doing. And they are going to go back. And they are going to deal with all those day to day issues. Pray that the things they learn here strengthen them.

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And build them up. And continue to do the work that they are here to be strengthened to do.

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Alright, well Chris we appreciate you. We really appreciate the ministry of Voice of Reason. What you and Richard do.

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I would like to say every week. But obviously I listen. And I know it is not quite every week.

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I would like to say every other week. But I also know that sometimes it is not exactly every other week.

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So let's stick with every month. Wait, maybe that is stretching it. Okay, so I appreciate every time you record.

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As the Lord wills. As the Lord wills. As this brother is saying. I appreciate. As the Lord wills when you record.

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It is a great show. And I hope folks will tune in to Voice of Reason radio on their podcast app.

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Okay, so that was from Chris Honholz. And he went to his show after a really long time.

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By the way folks, I gave him a hard time about how long it takes before he starts podcasting again. And if you go and listen to Voice of Reason.

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You realize they actually hadn't been recording for several weeks after Shepard's Conference. So just saying

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I think I was validated. But I have to be nice to Chris. Because I want to play for you something of what he said on his show.

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And let me give this shout out for folks. Go out, listen to Voice of Reason radio.

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And what I would say is contact them. Because Chris will not reveal the whole deal in what you're about to listen to.

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He talks about something that I did. But I did something on Friday. The last day of Shepard's Conference.

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I set him up literally to give him nothing. I did exactly what he actually had been asking for all week.

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But you are going to have to get the story from Chris. That pun was not intended.

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His co -host is Richard Story. And I'm telling you to go to Chris about a story. Just saying.

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But check out what he said. This is pretty humbling. And yes, I'll admit I started to cry.

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And then there was the mother load. It was going to crossway.

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The crossway table. The four large rectangle side table.

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They basically had a mile of Bibles. Let's just put it that way. And I zeroed in on the goatskin premium

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Bibles. Because I wanted to see one. See, last year,

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Steadfast Bibles came out with the preacher's Bible. The NASB Bible. And by the way,

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I got to see one of those. And yes, it's that heavy. Rich ain't joking. When he won that from Andrew and Striving for Eternity, that's a workout.

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Okay, you put that on the pulpit and you leave that there because that thing is heavy. But that's the first time

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I had heard about a goatskin leather Bible. Well, the one that I was gifted from Andrew, there's no telling what he paid just to ship that thing to me.

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It's a monster. Seriously, I mean, even in the specs, like on Amazon or wherever you can find it.

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It listed out as shipping weight something like 7 pounds. Oh, yeah. I think they said the

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Bible itself is 6 pounds. So if you include packaging material, cardboard, and all that, yeah, you're looking at about 7 pounds.

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So it's a 6 pound Bible. That thing's massive. So I zeroed in on Crossway's Bible table because I'm kind of addicted to the

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ESV. I'm sorry, folks. All my really cool and scholarly friends look down on me because I don't read the

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NASB. I read the ESV because I get it. One of these days I will spend some time in the

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NASB, I promise. Don't beat me with yours, please. But I zeroed in on theirs and I came across two of their premium

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Bibles. They have a preaching Bible, not the preacher's Bible, a preaching Bible that they put out.

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And then they have another one that's one of their premium Bibles, and they are the goatskin leather.

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And hold on a second. Where is it? Here it is. Okay. So I'm going to smell this for you on air because you can't.

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I now am the owner of a Crossway preaching Bible with the goatskin leather and the really nice pages.

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I don't know. See if you can hear this. Thanks a bunch. As you sniffed that, I started coughing. I don't know if you can hear that.

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That's the really nice pages. And it's – the smell of the goatskin.

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So what happened was – the reason I now own this is, again, I have to talk nicely about Andrew Rappaport.

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I went down there with a certain amount of money. And one of the first places

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I went was that table. Now these Bibles, the really premium goatskin ones that had multiple bookmarks and then the preaching

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Bible, they were cut down to 50 % off. The preaching

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Bible was normally $200. This was a $100 Bible now. There was another one that was slightly more expensive at $150.

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I could have bought one of those, and it would have been a fantastic investment.

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But I wanted more books. So I was tossed. And so I shared the information about trying to justify why – it's a joke.

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I realized something with you people that listen to me. I can't tell you these things. I cannot share with you, ooh,

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I would love to get that butt. Because I'm tending to share it to put out for you guys to, hey, here's something you might benefit from, and jokingly kind of talking about how

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I'd love to get a butt. See, because then you do silly things like what Andrew did. The reason

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I own a Crossway ESV preaching Bible is because Andrew, out of the kindness of his heart, bought it for me.

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And right now I'm trying not to cry. I'm not kidding. I'm going to cherish that for a long time.

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Not just because it's a goatskin ESV Bible, but because a man who, for reasons

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I don't really understand, really likes me. I give him a lot of grief on air, and I give him a lot of grief on Twitter.

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But Andrew is a genuinely kind man. And he did that, along with some other things, while I was there to make that experience special.

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Andrew, thank you. And I'm now failing it, not crying.

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Sorry, folks. Well, thanks, Chris, because now you've gotten me choked up and crying myself, even though I've just listened to it again.

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Well, the reality is, we as Christian brothers and sisters should be caring for one another. We should be doing what we can.

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And I knew that this was probably a one -time experience for Chris, and really wanted to make it as special as I possibly could for him.

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And I tried to really make it something that he would remember, and that he could enjoy.

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And no, no, Chris, sorry. I'm not done with things

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I have up my sleeve to bless you. I'm just saying, I have some things in mind.

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Let's get to another interview after this. Ding -dong! Jehovah's Witnesses.

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Ding -dong! Mormons. Christian, are you ready to defend the faith when false religions ring your doorbell?

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Do you know what your Muslim and Jewish friends believe? You will if you get

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Andrew Rappaport's book, What Do They Believe? When we witness to people, we need to present the truth.

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But it is very wise to know what they believe. And you will get Andrew Rappaport's book at WhatDoTheyBelieve .com

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The good news is, Striving for Eternity would love to come to your church to spend two days with your folks, teaching them biblical hermeneutics.

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That's right, the art and science of interpreting scripture. The bad news is, somebody attending might be really upset to discover

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Jeremiah 2911 should not be their life verse. To learn more, go to strivingforeternity .org

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to host a Bible Interpretation Made Easy seminar in your area. All right, thank you,

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Todd. And we would love to come to your area and do a Bible Interpretation Made Easy seminar, or any of the other seminars we have, whether it be the

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Ambassador of Evangelism, or Apologetics, or Church History, or Warning Your Church About Sexual Predators.

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We have a lot of different seminars that we offer at Striving for Eternity. We'd love to come to your church for a weekend seminar.

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Or if you have a conference, need a speaker, need someone to preach at your church, we have speakers that can do that.

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Both myself, I should say myself, along with Pastor Frank Mullis and Dr.

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Anthony Silvestro. And we are the three guys that do the speaking and preaching at Striving for Eternity.

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Now, this next interview that I have is with a friend of mine that I've gotten to know over the past few years, attending

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Shepherd's Conference G3. We've gotten together. Kind of just one of those things that through difficult times, you build relationships.

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I think there's a proverb that says something about that, right? That brothers are made for adversity.

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That when you have things that you go through together, you end up finding a kindred spirit.

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And that has been my experience with this next brother, Tom Buck, who I have had on the show before.

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Had a really good discussion. And when we had this discussion, he literally just got off of the dividing line with James White.

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So, hope that you will enjoy this interview. Alright, so we're here at Shepherd's Conference.

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Actually, the last day of Shepherd's Conference, I finally, finally got a hold of Tom Buck so we could talk.

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Because you've been running around crazy. I've been trying to get you on for a while. So, how have you been enjoying Shepherd's Conference this year? I'm loving it.

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I finally had nothing better to do. So, here I am, Andrew. Glad to be with you. So, no, I'm just kidding.

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But I'm loving Shepherd's Conference. This has been a great year. It really has in so many ways. Just the electricity of celebrating

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Dr. MacArthur's 50th year anniversary.

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I mean, I can't imagine missing it. And I'm thrilled to be here. 50 years of faithfulness is the theme throughout.

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We're seeing it literally everywhere. On every door it says 50. The idea of 50 years serving in one church.

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You've been around church for a long time. How unusual is it to have one man in one church for 50 years without scandal over 50 years?

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Well, first of all, I personally don't know. I'm sure they've existed. But I don't know any pastor personally that comes to mind that's been 50 years, period.

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50 years without scandal is just unthinkable in one sense or another when you look at today's landscape in the evangelical world.

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So there is nobody that I respect more than Dr.

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John MacArthur. He is an incredible man. He's been a friend to me at times when he's contacted me.

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And I've had opportunities to ask him about things that I needed to think about in ministry. And he acts like he's just one of us.

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There is nothing pretentious about that man whatsoever. He loves God. He's for the gospel. He's for the kingdom. I praise

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God for him. So as we're at Shepherds Conference, any of the sessions so far that have stood out to you that were either ones that you thought were the best ones or something that struck you as needed for the

30:18

Christian body? Well, for sure, I think one of the things that struck me the most, I would say the most moving sermon for me personally, was

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Sinclair Ferguson's message on holiness. As a pastor, I think it's easy for us to talk about everybody else's need for holiness, to not think about our own need to be examined in our hearts and our lives to make sure that we are guarding our life.

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So you have guarding the truth and guarding your doctrine, guarding your life, those things that Paul told

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Timothy. I tend to gravitate more towards understanding and quickly guarding the doctrine.

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So that impacted me greatly. The second thing, I'd say the best exposition of the week so far for me, was

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I thought Vody's exposition on 2 Timothy was powerful in multiple ways. Even if you want to learn how to preach a text, you need to listen to Vody's sermon, because he taught us how to preach expositionally in that sermon, plus ministers to your soul with the word at the same time, which is what expositional preaching does.

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I think for me, by far, so far, the best sermon was MacArthur's opening sermon.

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Dealing with the issue of just people that want to be like the celebrity Christians, with media the way it is now, it just seems like everyone can get a platform for themselves, everyone can make themselves look like they're something bigger than they are, and there's so many people trying to be the celebrity.

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John really addressed that pretty solidly in saying that we're nothing, and anyone that thinks they're something is missing the point.

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How needed do you think a message like that is for our culture in America, with what we see in the

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Christian landscape? Well, first and foremost, I'd say it's needed for myself, because I think there's within all of us a desire to have our voices heard to one degree or another, and I think that guarding that in your own life has to be done.

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I'll often say I don't have a desire to have a seat at the table, and I don't just have a desire for fame, and I think that's generally true, but when you are offered certain things, sometimes those things can shoot very quickly to your head, so I think that was very helpful for me personally.

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Secondarily, your question is regarding just that landscaping evangelicalism, and there's no doubt that that's going on, but maybe

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I'll give this aspect. I think we need to quit clamoring for the guys thinking that the guys that are at the top, that we need to clamor for their attention and all of those things, and we need to be busy about doing the work of the gospel, which is faithful pastors.

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One of the things I'd love to see in the future is for guys who handle the word well, but nobody really knows their name, that we would begin to platform those guys and give opportunities to hear the word preached by them too, and I think that would solve a lot of what we, or maybe not solve it, but it certainly would help move us in the right direction.

33:11

Yeah, I mean one of the things, you know a lot, you and I actually know some of the same people, but there's a bunch of people you know, we could name names, but there's people you know that we think of them as like a celebrity, a lot of people look up to them, you know they come out here at Shepherd's Conference, they can't walk two feet without someone wanting to get a picture, and yet when you sit down with them they're regular people, they don't think of themselves as being anything special, they actually kind of get embarrassed by all the attention, and I think that that's a thing that, you know there's some people that are looking to get that attention, and there's the real guys, you know the guys that are really, as MacArthur said, the third class galley slaves that aren't looking to be anything but a third class galley slave, and I think that's really what

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MacArthur challenged us to aspire to, you know aspire to be a slave, aspire to be nothing, which is a strange message in the culture when everyone's supposed to be, you know, looking for greatness, everyone wants purpose and things like that.

34:08

Anything that from this year's Shepherd's Conference that stood out from different ones, a little bit of a special one with it being

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MacArthur's 50th year at the church, and the theme of faithfulness, anything stand out different from other years do you think?

34:23

Well I certainly think, you know, one of the things that stood out is all the people that came to celebrate what

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John has done and share the variety of things, even what Ligonier shared with R .C.'s

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friendship and John's friendship, that was one of the most moving things of the whole week for me. So seeing the impact that this man has made, just simply by faithfully preaching the word, week in, week out, year in, year out, decade in, decade out,

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I think ought to teach us a lot, and you know he always said, I may not get this right, let me see if I get this correctly,

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I heard Dr. MacArthur say this many, many times, that you worry about the depth and God will worry about the breadth of your ministry.

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And I think that we're seeing that here. His ministry is broad -reaching, and he never worked at that other than the depth of the word.

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He is living proof that that is true. Oh yeah, I mean you look at how many people from all over the world have traveled here for this conference.

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One thing I really would like to have seen is for R .C. to live long enough to be here, because I'd love to have seen what he might have said.

35:33

In your personal life though, you've hit a milestone. And so you've finished a major body of work in your life.

35:43

We're soon going to have to change what we call you soon, right? We're going to have to give you a new title soon. But talk about your dissertation you just finished up, and some of the work and the importance of that.

35:55

Yeah, they'll have to call me Dr. Jerk now instead of just Jerk. But anyway,

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I just finished my dissertation on expository preaching. And I wrote it on a defense of and definition of expository preaching in examination of the book of Hebrews.

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Viewing Hebrews as a sermon, and then examining how that preacher handled the

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Old Testament text. And he did so, I'm arguing, in a clearly strong expository way.

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I'm still excited about that. I don't know what God will use it for the future. I'm hoping that it might be beneficial to persuade people that are not expositors to become expositors.

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That even expositional preaching is not about consequential texts where you're preaching through books.

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Although I prefer that, and I think that's better. Helps you to be a better expositor. But it's about understanding that we don't say what

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God didn't say. And figuring out, understanding what that text said. And then preaching the point of that text in such a way that it impacts people's lives.

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To both understand it and apply it in a way that is according to an aspect of the personal work of Christ.

37:09

So that's what I'm explaining in my dissertation. So you figured out who wrote the book of Hebrews, didn't you?

37:17

Well, if he was a little older, I would say John MacArthur. But he's not that old, of course.

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Yeah, I haven't figured that out. I have a theory, but that would take far too long to talk about. So maybe we'll eventually see that come out as a book in the book of Hebrews.

37:35

So we'll have to see. So when do we start calling you doctor then? Well, my wife's already started.

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But anyway, I'm hoping everything works out.

37:49

It'll be May 17th. I do my defense in a couple of weeks. So if they don't kick me out and throw me out on my ear, then we'll see.

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But that's when it's supposed to be. I remember the president of Toronto Baptist Seminary.

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When he got his doctorate, his daughter, he says, Daddy, she heard herself.

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She's like, Daddy, can you fix this? And he's like, I can't help you with this. And she goes, but you're studying to be a doctor.

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And his wife says, that's a different kind of doctor, dear. Your daddy's going to be a paper doctor. Not a real doctor.

38:27

So if you get a paper cut, you might be able to help that. But other than that, we can't do much. So any things you want to share about what's going on with your church down in Texas?

38:36

Or anything that's going on that you want to let our listeners know about? Well, I mean, I'm thankful. The thing

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I am first and foremost thankful to be is a pastor of a local church. It's a privilege. I love it.

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I love my people. I love our church. I love the fact of seeing after 13 years how the Word is shaping people's lives.

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Again, that year in and year out faithful thing. And I'm hoping and praying that God will use our church to plant other like -minded churches in our area.

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Because the thing that is the most missing today, that I hear from people constantly, is they cannot find a church that just preaches the

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Word of God. They find churches that preach from the Word. Preach about the

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Word. Preach around the Word. Preach above the Word. But preaching the

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Word is few and far between. And so we need more men. Listen, Dr.

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MacArthur, we don't know how much longer the Lord gives us to bless us with him. We'll treasure every day that he's here.

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But he has less years than he's had with us. And we need men to rise up like him.

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And there's not as many as I would love to see. I want to see more and more pulpits filled with men who simply are committed to preach the

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Word of Jesus Christ. And that's what he's been committed to. We need people to carry this legacy.

40:02

Yeah, that was one of the things Dr. Lawson was trying to encourage many of us to try to...

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for the doctorate of ministries. One of the things he said to us was, John's not going to be around much longer.

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It's a fact of life. And there's not many men you can learn from on expositional preaching that are alive today.

40:27

And so to be able to sit under his... It was pretty convicting, so I think I'm applying. You know, when

40:32

Steve Lawson basically says to you, don't waste another day, you kind of feel like you've got to do that.

40:39

Well, if you need a reference, let me know. Or maybe you better not let me know. Reference, this is

40:45

Dr. Jerk. So, I have always appreciated you with just the friendship we've been able to have.

40:54

We kind of see each other at these major conferences, but it's always a joy to be able to just talk with you. And the one thing

40:59

I've always appreciated is you've never sought to be anything more than a local church pastor, reaching your people.

41:06

Every time I've had conversations with you, that's where it always ends up going is to your church, what's going on.

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And that's the thing that I've always appreciated about you. I think the thing that draws me to you is the fact that you were just on James White's show, right?

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And you end up talking about your church. It's like these things happen for you and you don't seek them out.

41:27

And it's like you said, you take advantage of them when they're there, but you're about the local church. How important, and I want to close with this, is how important do you think the local church is compared to the platform that people get with social media and things like that?

41:43

I mean, that's a no -brainer. Jesus Christ said, I'll build my church, not build my podcast. And of course,

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I'm on one. But that doesn't mean that Christ doesn't use those things. But podcasts, whatever it may be.

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Blogs, whatever it may be. If they're not serving the local church, they're nothing but ashes in the end.

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And therefore, whatever we do, the bride of Christ is for whom Christ died.

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Now we know that means individually he's died for us, but I think so often we forget the collective importance of the collective nature of the body of Christ and that we are a people for whom

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Christ has died. And the local church is where it is at. I thank God for all kinds of things.

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And I mean this. And I thank God for the people that are in these roles and positions. I don't want to belittle them.

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But for me, if you offered me to be president of the largest seminary on planet earth and pastor a local church,

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I'd choose pastor a local church. We need more men like that. Now we need men that do the other. But you don't need as many men to do that as you do pastor in your local church.

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And we need institutions, even within our own convention, the Sotheby's Convention, that understand that who they work for is the local church.

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Who they're working for is to serve the local church. Who they're going to be judged before Christ someday of the effectiveness of their work is how well they served to serve the local church.

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So if they're not serving the local church and they're serving self or something else, it'll also be ashes there too.

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I think there's going to be a whole lot of ashes that are going to be on judgment day of stuff that people have done that are going to be worthless.

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Christ died for his church. And that's where our heart needs to be.

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And there's no greater job on earth than people who serve as pastors of a local church. Yeah, because it frustrates me when

43:30

I see... I have a lot of friends who are evangelists. I do a lot of evangelism. I can't stand these guys that go, well,

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I'm going to switch churches because they don't do the evangelism the way I want or they don't do enough evangelism. They don't support my evangelism.

43:44

And sometimes it's maybe because their evangelism isn't being done so well. But a lot of times it's the churches that are going through.

43:53

Every church needs evangelists. And yet some of these guys are like, well, I won't be in this church if there's not enough people or everybody doing evangelism.

44:02

And it's like, well, maybe God put you in that church so you would be the one to do that. Yeah, I think we misunderstand evangelism.

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And let me just use 2 Timothy as a point of this. We've been in 2 Timothy twice this week. And if you look at 2

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Timothy 4, and all through the book he's telling, preach the word. In season and out season. Be ready to approve, rebuke, exhort, etc.

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And then what does he say? There's 5 imperatives there at the beginning. And the emphasis is on preach the word and all those other things are how you preach the word.

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Then you go to the second part of that where he talks about fulfill your ministry. There's 4 imperatives there.

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The imperative with the most weight on it is fulfill your ministry. The other things describe that.

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Now isn't it interesting that in that description is you do the work of an evangelist. And according to Paul and his thinking, the day in, day out work of the local church, equipping men to teach the word, refuting false doctrine, all of those things he's been talking about, he sees that as doing the work of an evangelist.

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So evangelism is not some arm or branch of the church. It's the entire operation of the church.

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And so pastors are supposed to be doing that work and when they equip people who go out to do the type of witnessing, and all the people, all the people equipping them to go out and deliver the gospel, that's doing the work of an evangelist.

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You've got to guard the truth. You've got to be in the word. So this pastor's, the work of an evangelist pastor is not that he goes out 10 hours a week door to door visiting and witnessing.

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That's a wrong thought of understanding what evangelism is. Evangelism is equipping the church with sound doctrine, sound living, refuting false doctrine, equipping the saints.

45:47

If we believe the truth and we believe the truth, then we are going to tell that to everybody we know. Well, Tom, thanks for coming by.

45:53

I always appreciate the time I get to spend with you. And unfortunately this year wasn't as much because you've been running around a bit.

46:00

I have been. But I really appreciate the ministry that you have in my life and how you've helped me to mature as a believer and just the friendship that we have.

46:10

So thanks for coming on. Well, Andrew, thank you. That was hard to say, wasn't it?

46:18

Not at all. I promise you it wasn't. But I appreciate the $5 you're going to give me afterwards. All right.

46:25

So I guess I got $5 I owe him on that. Wow. I didn't recognize this really until I put these two together.

46:32

I didn't plan it that way. Well, actually, I didn't also know what Chris was going to say because we recorded this before. But two guys that actually said nice things about me.

46:40

Wow. That's amazing. Let's take a look at the

46:47

Bible of God and look at what the Bible says about God. Looking for strategies that will help you engage in meaningful conversations with members of the

46:57

Mormon Church? Well, if so, take a look at Sharing the Good News with Mormons, a new book produced by Harvest House Publishers and edited by Mormonism Research Ministries' Eric Johnson and Sean McDowell.

47:09

Sharing the Good News with Mormons includes 24 helpful essays from two dozen Christian apologists, scholars and pastors.

47:17

Copy at the Utah Lighthouse Bookstore or order directly from mrm .org.

47:22

And you can also get that at strivingforeternity .org at our store because I am one of the 20 authors that contributed to that work.

47:31

I'm very honored to be able to do that. So the attribute we want to look at today is

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God's self -existence. You first see this in Exodus 3 .14.

47:43

What's the context there? You have Moses asking God what is his name?

47:48

Because the gods in Egypt all had names. And in Exodus 3 .14,

47:54

God said to Moses, I am who I am. And that is where we get the name some call

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Jehovah, some call Yahweh. That is the idea of the self -existence of God.

48:10

That he is who he is. He has no beginning and no end. We see this worded elsewhere, especially in 1

48:17

Chronicles 16 .36. Blessed be the God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting.

48:25

You see that same phrase everlasting to everlasting in other places as well. Psalm 41 .13,

48:31

Blessed is the Lord, the God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting. You will also see that same phraseology in Psalm 106 .48.

48:42

You'll see that again in Psalm 90 .2 The mountains were brought forth wherever you had formed the earth and the world from everlasting to everlasting.

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You are God. So the idea there is before there was a creation, God was there.

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Meaning that he was before there was a time. Another phrase that you end up seeing that references this same idea you can see in Isaiah 44 .6

49:11

where it says, Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, I am the first,

49:20

I am the last, besides me there is no

49:25

God. In other words, there's no one before him, there's no one after him, therefore he would know if there is another and there is no one else but him.

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He refers to himself as the first and last in other places such as in Revelation 2 .8.

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In there he will say, And the angel said to the church of Smyrna, Write the words of the first and the last who died and came to life.

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So the idea of the first and last is the idea that there is no one before him. We see this in Revelation 22 .13

49:56

where it says, Behold, I am coming soon, bringing recompense with me to repay each one for what he has done.

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And then verse 13, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.

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What is he doing in all three of those is trying to emphasize that there's no one before him and there's no one after him.

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He is the only God that there is. Now if you really want to see this most clearly, we would look at this in Isaiah 43 .10

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where it says, You are my witnesses, declares the Lord, and my servant whom

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I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he.

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Before me no God was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

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Now if you think about this, this is where everybody is talking about these other gods. The other nations had these other gods, but God is saying that he was the first, he was the last, the

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Alpha, the Omega, he was from everlasting to everlasting. He knows that there's no

51:07

God before him, there's no God after him. He is the only God that is. And all of that is precedent and what he says in Exodus 3 .14,

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I am that I am. In other words, the fact that he exists is the self existence.

51:24

He himself always existed. Now there are some who will argue that there had to be something that made

51:36

God. Now this is an idea that comes typically from unbelievers. Why? Because the fact is they want to say that something must have created

51:44

God because every cause has an effect. Every effect has a cause.

51:49

What you end up seeing is that they see God and they say well something must have caused God. Why? Because well when it comes to the universe we know it had a beginning, therefore something caused it to come into existence.

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That's a cause and effect that occurs. But philosophers would talk about that first thing that had no cause.

52:11

They would word it in different ways. The uncaused cause is the most popular. But there has to be something or person in the beginning that had no cause that caused everything else.

52:26

That is what we call God. And that's how he refers to himself when he says to Moses, as Moses is going to go back to the

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Israel people and bring them out of Egypt. And he says well who should I say send me?

52:38

And he says to him, his name is, I am that I am. The fact is what

52:44

God is saying in that is that he is self -existent. He had no beginning. He has no end.

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There is nothing and no one before him. And when everything is gone, he would still be here.

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In other words, he is the uncaused cause. And he's the only being that can make such a claim.

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Why? Because he is God. That's the idea behind that name Yahweh.

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That very special name for God that the Jews would not say. He is the self -existent one.

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That is who God is. An attribute of God. So anytime you have people that refer to God as if he had a beginning, you now know that they have a wrong deity.

53:31

A false deity. Why? Because the true deity, the one of the Bible, the God that exists, is the uncaused cause, the

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God of the universe that created everything out of nothing. But he had no beginning and has no end.

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Now, next week, on The Wrap Report, I hope to start bringing to you some of the messages from The Shepherd, some of the messages from the conference that we recently had called

54:01

Sanctification Through Suffering. We hope that these will be helpful to you and that you will gain a lot from them.