TiL- Defending Young Earth Creationism

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Join Dan and Rob as they discuss how God created the universe.

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Welcome to the truth and love podcast. Thank you for joining us again tonight We are going to be discussing and defending young earth creationism stick with us
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What's going on Dan did we get another intro Sort of sort of say it same
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British guy, but different music it's different music. Yeah, I like it I was not pleased with the other music that we had
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So I wanted to update it and I was I was trying to rush and find something Decent and I come up with that.
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So You Think it's okay. Yeah, that's good.
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I like it I'm easy, please. I'm sure somebody out there won't like it, but they can just get over it
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Yeah But we do want to strive to please the
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Lord and There's different theories tonight You wanted to talk we're taking a break
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Seems like for a couple weeks now on Reform Covenant theology not the book that we're trying to read the other
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Yep, and and you directed this toward defending young earth creation
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Because it's something that you are working on for your pastoral ministry
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Yeah, yeah, I'm taking a class in seminary right now called origins Going through with first half of the class we're looking at Oh Yeah, first half of the class our textbook is this book looking at four different views of Creation Intelligent design
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Creation evolution and Until I paid a lot of attention to it
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Creationism old earth creationism, so that it's either the the day -age theory or the the gap theory and then theistic evolution and Then the other book we're doing is four views on the historical
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Adam There's some other books. We're using in there. We're doing a lot of journal articles, so I had to read a or had to write a paper on Defending young earth creationism, so I figured hey, we'll do that and then in between there
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I had to write a sermon and present it to the Presbytery Was that last
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Friday Sustained by everyone who voted Some people walked in late and didn't vote
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They're like we're only here for the last bit of it Um, so we're not gonna we're not gonna vote but everybody who voted for me voted to sustain me
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So and that's a good thing. That means that you did. Well, okay So and that that ended one of the what part of your process and Nothing, they didn't end anything
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It ended the sermon portion. I was going to be able to I was gonna be eligible to be licensed to preach
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This time had I taken a different exam I needed to finish a history paper, and it would have been able to be licensed to preach
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However, I Did not do that one. I took I did my sermon for the second level. So I'm I've done four out of the five to be licensed to preach
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I've done one of the five in order to be eligible to receive a call to a particular gospel ministry
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Okay. All right. So if you are not familiar Or if you've heard us talk about it before and you forgot
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Dan if Dan is talking about the process of Ordination in the
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RPCNA which is the branch of a Presbyterian Church that he is a part of So it may be different in your denomination may be different your church or if you're
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Presbyterian may be a little bit different in your branch of Presbyterianism, but this is
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I enjoy hearing and listening to The steps that Dan has to follow and his process and the success that he's having the
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Lord showing him in this process of ordination Yeah, one of the things that's there's a few subordinate standards that define what the
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RPCNA believes That would be the Westminster Confession and the Westminster larger and shorter catechism
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Specific to the RPCNA. We also have the the RP testimony stands for the reformed
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Presbyterian testimony And it's a commentary basically on certain aspects of the
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Westminster Confession of Faith so where Some more modern ideas may have popped up The Westminster or the
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RP testimony defines things a little bit more specifically one of the points that They define is that their gospel ministers need to believe in a young earth creation model of creation so while some other
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Presbyterian denominations May allow for theistic evolution or an intelligent design or something of that sort our denomination requires that their ministers believe in a six -day creation model a young earth creation model
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Okay Does my mic sound different? It does now it sounds like you climbed out of that that small bathroom stall that you're podcasting from a minute ago
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And now we're speaking directly into the microphone there We did have some confusion.
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I was mostly the one that was confused Before we got started and so that interrupted the automatic connection with their correct microphone
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So I'm glad the Lord brought that to my mind and when I got that straightened out And if I didn't say before I may have can't remember but the comment line is open if you listen or watch it later
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Even years down the road leave us a comment. Let you know. Let us know that you watch this program listen to this program
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If you have a question critique we're open to that as well so so get us started on this this young earth creation
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Yeah When you look at Creation in general
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Really? What what our task is? Is to look at the world around us look at all the evidence and See, you know, how did we get here?
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What is the creation? How did it get started? There's a couple different types of evidence that you can look at there's the physical evidence the scientific evidence of it's observable measurable repeatable
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That sort of thing And that's where a lot of folks stop Especially your naturalist those who believe that there's only the natural world no atheists things like that The Christian also believes that there is a there's a some historical evidence as well
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Whether these things were actually written down for us by people who knew better who were if not there
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We're how these things revealed to them by Someone God who was there?
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so when examining the evidence Really what you're doing is you're interpreting the world around you
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So one thing I don't know if you've ever heard heard this There's like a whole bunch of blind folks
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And they all stuck out their hand to see what an elephant was like and the one grabbed on to the leg and said well, this is
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It's it looks an elephant looks like a tree. It's big and strong. No one grabbed on to the tail On the end of it said well this thing's a little bit furry
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The one grabbed on to the trunk or the ear and you know, they had different things And so they were all very dogmatic about this is exactly you know, what this elephant is, but each of them
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Only had the bit of information in front of them Each of them had their own preconceived notions of what things were going to be like Also, if you have two people who come across a number, you know
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Say a number six or a number nine It's drawn on the ground one person standing on one side of it one person standing on the other side of it
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They're both staring at it. Yeah Somebody will say hey, that's a six similar say that's a nine their preconceived
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Notions of what it is is based upon how they're approaching the subject
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Now here's one thing that's very very important There's somebody who drew that number on the ground and they know exactly what number that they drew on the ground
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So there's an objective truth there to be found But we're going to be interpreting the data that we see in front of us based upon our presuppositions.
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Yeah, right Which is it's okay presuppositions aren't necessarily a bad thing
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It's when our presuppositions are Incorrect that it can lead us down the wrong the wrong path.
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Yeah, so This was brought up in my in my class. I gotta give credit to Dr.
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Thomas Gentry. He's my professor. He in a lecture. He he brought these up, you know, so there
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I go I can't get plagiarism. I done cited my source over here He brought up that there are there are two two basic types at least in this
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Discussion there's an epistemic presupposition. In other words, how do we gain knowledge?
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How do we understand and believe things? So, is there an underlying belief
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That there is no supernatural or there must be a supernatural that underlying belief is going to predetermine some extent what what sort of conclusions you can come to from your evidence and Then there's a moral presupposition
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Say you come at at The creation debate and You Say say you for whatever reason have
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I've had an abortion and you did so because You You're thinking led you to believe that what you're doing wasn't necessarily wrong but if you were to accept a creationist view of of creation then
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God would have created the world who would have endowed each and every human being with an Inherent worth and the the ending of the life of that unborn child
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Would be considered a great sin Maybe you're not ready to accept the fact that you've sinned in that way
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So people to to to salve their own consciences will come up with all sorts of things I don't want to be to be responsible before God in heaven
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So I'm just going to assume that there isn't one and I'll go about interpreting the data. However, I feel like I Mean to some extent
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Christians do that too We'll read the Bible No saying we love gender equality.
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Therefore. I'm going to go through You know first Timothy 2 and and not see
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Paul's prohibition against women pastors as being a prohibition against women pastors Yeah, I mean it happens to people not all over the place
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But I just say all that to bring up that in the interpretation of the data Our presuppositions do play a large part in in what?
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Conclusions we will allow ourselves to arrive at yeah a lot of people call that your your lens sure, this is this is the lens in which
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I see or interpret scriptural or I see the evidence through this particular lens, so Right based on my my culture my background how
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I was raised all sorts of things can influence and and be considered your lens and in how you
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View what's in front of you? Couple of things that I thought of as you were doing that little introduction there
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It's We're talking about defending young young earth creationism, and I think it's interesting to think
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It's it's not just against atheists. Sure That we defend because we think maybe
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Maybe some people think that or if you've not been introduced to this topic before you think well, there's really only
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Two views you have the eighth atheistic view which is gonna promote Evolution or you have creationism
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Yeah, but with I think the Well a young earth creationist must must defend young earth creationism with a
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Evolution because you have millions of years, but then you also have which may be a surprise to some folks that there are
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Christians Who believe in a older? So you have a young earth defense against some of your brothers and sisters in Christ who?
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because of their maybe because of their lens or maybe they're being Putting forth effort not to use their lens.
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That will be their defense. Just like it would be our defense. We we try to set aside our lenses or Biases as we interpret scripture and that's going to be their argument as well
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We want to be aware But but they find when they study scripture, I see an older.
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I See millions of years. I think Evolution and creation are compatible.
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So there's quite a different View there. There's quite a few different views and Then the other thing was you were talking about God being an eyewitness because he was there.
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I also thought about Oh Witnesses If you look at the Old Testament and the genealogies
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You've got you've got men and and women who lived hundreds and hundreds of years.
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So you have You have somebody who
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Adam and his and his sons lived hundreds of years. So they were able to recount
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The story of creation and they're they're walking with God in the garden throughout generations
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Yeah, yeah, there's a real interesting theory that touches on that a little bit I'd like to bring up later
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I don't want to get a sidetrack, but it was it was really interesting. I was reading a what seems to be a
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Conservative Jewish writer And he had some interesting thoughts.
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He's not a Christian, but he would believe that that Yahweh of the Bible created
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But yeah, he had some interesting stuff that he may be right You may he may not be but it'd be be interesting to talk about that here a little bit
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But you're absolutely right there's several different views even among atheists there's different views It's fallen out of favor
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But some atheists believe that there was an eternal cosmos It was just went on forever
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Like they had no beginning it was eternal just like we would believe God is eternal I know
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God he's always been there creations always been there That's that's fallen out of favor.
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That's gonna that would be a concept that That would break my mind to try to harmonize those two things together to have
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To have evolution or no God not to have a ultimate cause
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And but have an eternal Universe Yeah, well,
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I mean a lot of those those Weren't necessarily atheist but pagans
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Who believed that there was there was basically that creation was their God Okay, because it was eternal
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It it was the thing that gave life to them They would live in a cycle in harmony with their with their
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God and then upon upon their death they would be reunited with their God by being Decomposed back into the earth being assumed back into their creator, which is an interesting interesting
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Deception on the part of the dough, I would say. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely What you got for us first there
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I guess I guess what we should just look at the the basic Theories amongst
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Christians, okay Looked at the a couple atheistic ones, you know, they've got the
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Atheistic evolution pure naturalism where you believe that there is no supernatural or you've got your eternal
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Cosmos which you know, it was it could be a little bit Different they could add in the supernatural aspect just not necessarily call it
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God But create Christians generally break down into Four or five depending on how you you count it
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Different camps you have the young earth creationist Which says that God created by the word of his mouth in the space of six 24 hour periods with no gaps in between According to that in the genealogies found in chapter 5 of Genesis you then have an earth that's somewhere between six and ten thousand years old depending on if there are
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Some people skipped over in the genealogies or not You can stretch it out from six to ten thousand years somewhere there some people even go as far as 20 or 25 something like that saying that it was like every fifth generation was recounted in in In the genealogies or whatever, but that's the basic framework
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Is it in six 24 hour periods God spoke things into existence in the seventh day? He rested giving us the principle of the
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Sabbath period. Yeah, and that that theory relies heavily on the Genealogies the genealogies and and especially
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Genesis one Mm -hmm as it takes at face value Evening and morning the first day
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There's some some some wording in Genesis that I guess you could take a little bit differently
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And that's where these other views start to come in for instance, let's see We'll grab the big one today
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While you're looking that up it caused me to think about our last guest that we interviewed
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Gary DeMar and Some of the things that I've learned from him when it comes to Bible interpretation, you know
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People have watched us any amount of time. They know that we're both partial preterists. We would consider ourselves post -millennialist and so we see
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Many of the things that are prophesied as some would see them literally just Yet they're going to happen literally, but they've yet to happen there.
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They're going to be in our future we would see many of those things as Figurative descriptions
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So, why don't we see all these other things as Figurative or symbols or signs?
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Well, it's because we take the approach and and I think I think that he mentioned this in our interview
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But I know I've heard him say this a million times Oh We do take the
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Bible literally and the word literal means according to the literature Yeah yeah,
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I was a part of a forum discussion as part of my class work just today where somebody said that my interpretation of Zechariah 9 was in verse 10 was a a
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Spiritualized interpretation. I was like, no, I believe it says exactly what it says. They're just the
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Different understandings of how that plays out. Yeah. Yeah Could another way to say that would be authorial authors intent
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It could be yeah. Yeah Yeah, I mean, I guess one way would be literal meaning
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You Have and this is the way it's used a lot today literal being
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There's there's basically one Understanding of what a word is.
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So if you see kingdom, it's always a certain type of kingdom if you see Israel It's always the nation of Israel from the
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Old Testament. You see church. It's always a separate entity in You gather you get this there's really wooden structures
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But you can also look at things literally No in this Placing it in its genre looking at it with the figures of speech understanding the typology behind it
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And then you can understand the same things in different ways Because it's being used in a different way because language is somewhat fluid.
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I mean, it's not Complete mishmash of Jell -o, but like words have meaning but they also have what's called
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It's a semantic domain a certain range of meanings that it can have
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And so you don't go you could be over here or over there, but you're gonna be within this range
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It's up to the context to determine which specific instance you're you're using, right?
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Yeah, so look for instance some of these different views Verse 1
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Genesis 1 1 in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth And some people will just stop and say
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All right, cool. He's done that verse 2 and The earth was formless and void and let's say hey
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Something happened between verse 1 and verse 2 There's a gap here the gap of a large amount of time and they call this the gap theory
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Some people will squeeze incredible amounts of stuff that happened in between verse 1 and 2. Yeah, I'm Talking about there was how the earth was formed.
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God created the heavens in the earth He created Satan and his angels and Satan and his angels lived over the whole face of the earth
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And then while Satan was ruling the earth He gathered his angels together to the third of them to to rebel against God and God destroyed the earth and separated the angels into demons and angels and that all of that happened
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In between verses 1 & 2 So when you get to verse 2 and it says the earth was formless and void
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It was because it was a it was a chaotic structure that had already been Created and then destroyed by God and now he's starting over no more spiritual beings
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But now we're having mankind being being put on the earth. So God's remaking the earth a second time in verse 2
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So I do it. I don't I don't know where you get that Just I mean like I'm looking at all this white space in between the words and I don't see it there
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Yeah, I don't know. Oh, yeah is interesting because I Was talking in that same form
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Today like bringing up like you you wouldn't put a gap there in Genesis 1
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Talking to this particular guy. I was like, so why would you put a gap in between verses 9 and 10 of Zechariah 9?
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You don't you don't need to put a gap in places when there's there's no gap there. You look at the context you look at The words that are in front of you and if there's some if there are some words there that point to it
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No, maybe we have that discussion, but there's nothing here to suggest that there's anything other than it's saying
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Hey, this is a big topic in the beginning God did it. Yeah. How did you do it?
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Here's how I did it and That's that's how I would take it So the gap theory is that there's a big bunch of time.
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So that's how it would look like Stars are Billions of light -years away because they are they were made that long ago
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In between the time of of the first creation and in a second creation
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That's yeah, so, I don't know. What do you think about that one Robert? two creations
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Well one one creation two creation events. Some people go even further and talk about a third creation account in Genesis 2
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Wow, I don't I don't think that I've come across the that theory before the the gap theory was real popular in the earlier 1900s
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Okay, now I've heard of the gap theory, but I've not heard of that multiple different creation
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Not accounts, but just multiple different creations Yeah, like like this this is uh, this is earth 2 .0
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and One day one day Jesus will return we'll have earth 3 .0.
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Yeah. Yes Yeah, I don't know and that's not all gap theorists So I'm just theorized that there was a long period of time a long stuff to grow and spread out to where it is today so that's a the the material of the universe would then be billions of years old even though God, you know, he threw out the stuff of creation and then he spoke into existence everything you see in the six days
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They would they would say that Okay You also have the the day age theory
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We've seen in Different places where time time is like irrelevant to God.
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I mean he transcends it. He's over top of it see that in places like As if in Peter what says a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day
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They'll take that same idea and run to Like say, where are we at?
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So verse 3 And God said let there be light and there was light and God saw that the light was good and God separated the light from the darkness and God called the light day and darkness.
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He called night And there was evening and there was morning one day
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Let's say okay that was one day that was the first age of creation Where God made the light and separated it from the darkness?
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No day is like a thousand years to God So some indeterminate amount of time where God made No, separate the light from the darkness in that age.
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Yeah. Yeah, but they said well, they said here day the Hebrew word yom is
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Actually an age of time and they'll say well you say well, what do you mean?
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it says morning and evenings like well, it just means the beginning of the age in the end of the age and then
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They point to you got to go all the way down here to verse Where is it?
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14 Where it says I let there be lights in the expanse of heavens to separate the day from the night and let them be signs and For seasons and for days and for years, so you see time wasn't even really
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The way that we was the days weren't defined until day four but what's really interesting about that is
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You have God in Day one two and three saying evening and morning day one evening and morning day two evening and morning day three
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Then you come when you come to day four It says let there be lights in the expanse of the heaven to separate the day from the night and let them be for signs
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So this is going to signify the seasons the days and the years
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So instead of it's saying That you don't know how long it was for the first three days
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What verse or what verse 14 and day four tells us is? that God made the rotation of the earth and the revolution of the earth around the
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Sun the exact speed and Distance that he did to To Record for us how long that morning and evening of the first second third day actually were yeah
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So it's it's like the fourth day of creation where he puts the Sun Moon and stars the Sun Moon and stars are a witness
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To God's time stamp of his creation No, here's how long it took me to do this
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Here's some planets that are going to scream out. This is how long it took me to do this time stamp
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So I don't see where a day age theory really comes in now. There are instances where the word young Is not necessarily as Literal as as an evening in the morning, but I don't see that here at all
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You have qualified yeah And when it comes to the gap theory when it comes to the day age theory
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I can't help but think and I've not done my historical research on this. This is just me, you know right off the cuff thinking
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What would be common sense it seems like they would come from something post
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Darwin post evolution and That's when you see them pop up because they're
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You've got to have Modern science you and modern science says there's millions of years
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There's evolution and so we've got to come up. We've got to read interpret and see that in Genesis so therefore there's got to be this there either had to be gap or there had to be a day age theory and So I'm about the historical research on it.
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Yeah What happened was people saw these theories they saw the science behind evolution
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Now as all this stuff was coming out before evolution was even that widely accepted people were hearing that But there's there's hard science out there that's telling us that the world
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Looks and acts older than we thought it was much much older And that doesn't line up with the
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Bible. So they went to the Bible and Tried to read it in light of the scientific evidence that they had seen
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Instead of trying to interpret the scientific evidence in light of what the scripture says, yeah
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We got a cart and a horse type of thing See their presupposition was that if the science is correct
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Then we have to make the Bible match the science because we believe that the Bible is true
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But we know this the science is true the science We have to make the Bible match the science however
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What I would contend is that they got it backwards that that Just Because the science says one thing doesn't mean it has to be interpreted the way that's presented to you
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So you've got the genealogical record that runs or geological record that runs through like say the
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Grand Canyon You got fossils and stuff like that No, well, they're saying it's it's really really old, you know, look it's old, you know radiocarbon dating all sorts of stuff and If you if you start from the assumption that The earth is that old you can come up with the understanding of no evolutionary processes that people have come up with but if you take the
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Bible as The account of how God has created the world and how the world that we have has gotten to us, you know through the flood
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Then when you look at the same evidence those same layers of rock and sediment those same fossils
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You see that the same evidence can be interpreted completely
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Compatible with the biblical narrative You don't have to throw away what the Bible has said in order to accept what the science says
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You just what your starting point your presuppositions Determine which evidence or which way you interpret that evidence
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And and I think that it helps answer the question as to why one of the reasons why? You we want to say what is defending a young earth?
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Why is it important? well, that's that's one of the reasons because you don't have to throw out science and Have science over here and biblical interpretation over here.
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Have your Have your morals and your theology here and your science over here and the two can't mix no, you don't have to throw it out and The other reason is and there may be other reasons and and you maybe can add to this but another reason it's important to defend young earth creationism is because in doing so you're defending what what
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I would consider the Better or the best hermeneutic and so therefore you want to apply that hermeneutic to the rest of scripture
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Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's even more to it than that. Um, I Think well, let's bring up these other
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Christian ideas and then that that's where you see the that the problems with those ideas really pop up and it's really
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It's really big when you look at it in light of salvation and the gospel There's some real big issues that pop up here
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For instance theistic evolution Some people they're just like well evolutionary science is
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Pretty much settled. That's what everybody says. Everything makes sense evolutionarily so we're just gonna say that that the account in Genesis is telling us a
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Poetic version of How God created the world through the use of evolution?
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So we don't have to try to interpret the data different than the atheistic evolutionist
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We can just recognize that these are the processes by which God used to to create his world
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One of the big problems with this is that in evolutionary science
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You have a progression From non life to life
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Which could be explained by God Giving life no to something they didn't have life
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I mean, that'd be consistent with with Christian theology. God gives life to things that are dead
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That's what we believe about salvation. God takes her dead hearts and give this life, but the problem you have
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Isn't that the problem you have is that those living things Would have for millions of years in order to lay down the fossil record died and decomposed
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Long before Adam and Eve and long before sin entered the world If you have death before sin
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If you have sickness and illness before sin If you have basically all the miseries of this life before sin, then what did sin actually do to us?
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No The Bible says very clearly to the wages of sin is death.
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So why was her death? Beforehand right Right, why was
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Cro -Magnon man in the Neanderthals? Why were they dying? No, and that's why you have to they have to come up with ideas of well
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Adam was just the first one that God gave a soul to There's all these ones over here was like but but it still doesn't answer the question
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How did death enter into the world if there was no sin? Yeah If the wages of sin is death if death is just a part of of life
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Then what you know, what are we being saved from? Yeah I mean, obviously not just physical death, but also it kind of ruins
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It kind of ruins gospel proclamation Why do I is Jesus's death any more special?
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Than all these other folks that died without sin, why didn't one of those guys pay for our sins, right?
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Yeah, it kind of it throws it throws it way out of whack Now, I'm not saying that every theistic evolutionist denies the gospel
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I'm not saying that they deny other things in the scripture, but it's it's extremely problematic when you look at things
39:08
It puts the cart before the horse and it kind of up ends a lot of your
39:14
Really basic Christian salvation and I would say it even leads to a lot of different errors and Even heresies somewhere down the line.
39:29
Yeah one of the things to think about too when you're talking about God God could have done things in a process, but If you think about it this way
39:40
Nothing or non life No matter how long the process is could never become life
39:48
Not by not by any natural Not by itself not by itself not by any natural forces upon it
39:56
No matter how long the process is it can never become life So there has to there had to be if God chose to use a process there had to be at some point
40:07
That that line and that spark where he that divine intervention divine intervention
40:14
Yeah It had to be miraculous where he caused the lightning bolt to hit the the primordial primordial ooze and make hit the first amoeba and make it start moving and reproducing and Make the dinosaurs or something.
40:29
I don't know And then there's a there's a
40:34
There's another camp too, they just call themselves the intelligent design camp and there it's a if you're familiar with the eschatology a thing where you've got your premillennialist then you got your amillennialist your
40:49
Postmillennialist and you've got those non -committal people who Who say it's all gonna pan out in the end the panmillennialist
40:59
That's kind of these intelligent design folks They've got people who believe in a young earth and older if they just kind of From all over the place just basically throw their hands up like well
41:10
God made the earth and everything in it so we're just gonna believe that it's like okay, but you just You kind of flaking out on us here.
41:23
Let's let's look at the scriptures and come up with an idea At least that's how I feel about it
41:30
So There's those those are about the the five major ones,
41:38
I'm Jim sure there's other different theories out there Well the last 20 minutes that we have
41:46
I do want to get that that tease that you gave me that you said there was a theory that You wanted to bring up and I really want to hear it
41:54
Sure, I'm hooked. You've got me looking forward to it, but the last 20 minutes let's let's look at a defense of Young earth creationism sure.
42:06
Yeah, I think best way to do that is just to read Read the scriptures and kind of comment on it along the way.
42:13
All right so basically what we're saying is that the account in Genesis is The account of how things took place now, what does that look like I Don't really know.
42:27
I think it probably blow our minds To To watch the transcendent
42:35
God of the universe speak things into existence it would be wild But we just take at face value what the text says so for instance
42:51
Verse two and the earth was formless and void and Darkness was over the surface of the deep
43:00
And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters so One of the really really interesting things
43:11
About the creation account is it does say that there was an earth It didn't have any form and it was empty
43:19
So what it was that even mean like it's not like it's a blob like there was no form
43:24
Was it was it it was void it was empty so I'm thinking that That what it's saying.
43:34
There is the very first thing That God did was make a space to create in Which when it says the
43:45
Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters That word water means abyss
43:55
It's like Had a friend her grandmother went to the ocean for the first time.
44:04
She's from Kansas She was like 80 something years old went to the ocean for the first time And she stood up on this hill and this dune and looked out at the ocean
44:12
Looked all the way to the left all the way to the right and just look at her said Man, that's a bunch of water
44:19
You know, she's right. It's an abyss. It is a grand wide open gigantic space of water
44:27
Now imagine that as the the blackness of space, you know in the beginning
44:34
Here was God you know, he's nudging out of a space to create in and his
44:42
Holy Spirit is Everywhere now, this is really cool because number one in the beginning
44:50
God created the heavens and the earth So you've got the Father the Spirit of God is hovering over the water and then
44:56
God spoke There's a son. There's a Trinity right there in the first two verses mm -hmm, so Verse three then
45:05
God said let there be light and there was light. So there was just darkness God said look to be light boom, there was light outside and God saw the light that was good.
45:15
He separated light from dark Said here the light it's gonna be called day darkness is gonna be called night.
45:23
There was evening and morning one day So God just separated Here's light you can see we're gonna call it day
45:32
Here is night It's dark. We're gonna call it night You can't see there.
45:38
It's simple enough. Like could God do more? Of course, he could have he's God he could have just Done, but he chose day one which can separate
45:49
Lights on lights off all by the word of his power Right Day two
45:58
Verse six Then God said let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters and let separate the waters from the waters
46:04
Now some of these translations will say firmament so God made an expanse and Separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse and it was so And God called the expanse heaven
46:21
There was evening and morning second day now, this is interesting because if you understand the waters as Being Water You're like, well, where did the water come from?
46:35
He didn't create that yet if you understand it as as that word abyss being a large
46:41
Space for him to create in you see him then creating. There's there's a there's a break
46:47
Where there's then the earthly realm and the heavenly realm So you've got the spiritual and the physical realms being created their own day, too
46:57
So he's got here's light this is where God is here's darkness night
47:03
He's there too, but it's not bright You got heaven and earth or heavens and Physical and spiritual at least that's the way
47:13
I see it in verse in day two It's the only one where he doesn't say it was good however
47:21
If God's gonna live there, he's gonna create it It's gonna be good then verse 9
47:28
Then God said let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place and then let the dry land appear
47:35
So what do you got there? That's the formation of the planets of the planet.
47:41
That is earth He's taking here's the abyss I'm gonna separate the abyss from the abyss what's gonna happen
47:47
I don't know. But what you end up with is Earth here is
47:54
God's earth on day three Let me read some more Let the dry land appear and it was so and God called the dry land earth and the gathering of the waters.
48:06
He called Seas and God saw that it was good. So God took that big abyss the expanse he
48:15
Formulated earth and sea and said it was good. And then what did he do?
48:22
And then let the earth sprout vegetation Plants yielding seed and fruits or fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind was seed in them and it was so And the earth brought forth vegetation plants yielding seed after their kind and The trees bearing fruit with seed in them after their kind and God saw that it was good
48:42
So you all of a sudden you've got plants living thing living plant matter producing Things after itself, you know bananas making bananas and pears making pears
48:53
God making all of this and what is really incredible is there's no sunlight needed for plants to photosynthesize
49:02
Now they only had to do it deal with it for a day. I mean plants can go a whole day, but I Think what
49:08
God is trying to teach us there is that everything that is made by him As it says later in the
49:13
Bible sustained by the word of his power Yeah But if God says let there be light and it's good and he creates the heaven the heavens the earth
49:22
Creates the earth itself puts plants on it and tells them to live It doesn't matter if they're natural regular processes or there or not.
49:31
They're going to live Because why because God has said that they're going to live so they're going to live, right?
49:38
So this thing is great Yeah, and and that that goes that makes a spiritual point, you know, the sure creation obeys
49:46
God Remember that spiritual point we'll come back to that. Okay. Yeah, that's your teaser
49:52
Come back to that Verse 14. We already went over this a little bit
49:58
It's day for the planets the Sun Moon and stars all things are gonna mark off the seasons, you know
50:04
Mark off the days were made to time stamp God's work of creation
50:12
If we'd been on a different planet and God wanted the days to be 36 hours.
50:18
He would have Caused or if even the same plan he wanted to be 36 hours He would have had a spin slower if God did it in four hours be whipping around there pretty pretty fast but the planets and the whole of the creation is out there proclaiming what
50:36
God has done in making it and he did it in the space of Six days the earth marking.
50:43
Here's one That's one day You know 365 to get around the whole of the
50:52
Sun know that the galaxy The Milky Way is moving in space
50:58
We really don't know the the entirety of this this
51:06
Calendar clock of the cosmos that God has put up there To mark off these things for us.
51:12
We do know that that the way that the earth tilts Causes the the summer and the winter and fall and all of that was put into place at The word go job marked off the times the seasons everything and built it into the way that the universe around us works
51:33
Which is let me ask you this question beautiful in a flat earth field Sure You Give me a fulcrum
51:45
I can move the world the other one dude said Yes, you see what happened was it was flat and Matt asteroid hit on this side all the dinosaurs on that side just about flung off into space
51:58
That's a great theory Yeah, that's I don't know
52:03
I think we didn't get into flat earth on this one the season The seesaw theory that was great yeah hitting the
52:10
Yucatan and Let me see So he goes as far as talk about the
52:19
Sun to rule the day the moon to rule the night Evening and morning the fourth day, so then verse 20
52:31
Let the water swarm with swarms of living creatures let the birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens and God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves with which the water swarmed
52:47
After their kind and every winged bird after its kind and God saw that it was good He said be fruitful multiply fill the earth
52:55
The air and the sea there was evening and there was morning fifth day, so God created birds and fish
53:04
Both delicious, and he made he made them not not for that purpose, but he made them
53:10
For the earth and that they were good it says that It's also interesting here that you get to see a little bit of that Jewish Cosmology what that means is what did the
53:20
Jews think of the world how they think it worked? They had three different heavens so when
53:25
Paul says he got caught up into the third heaven. That's the place where God lives The first heaven being this heaven that talks about what says that the birds would fly across the face of the heavens
53:37
That's the the atmosphere that we have Then you have the second heaven which is where the stars and the planets live
53:46
And then the third heaven being where God himself lives, so that's three first second and third heavens of the the
53:54
Jewish Understanding of the way that the world works You see that bleeding out a little bit there, which also keep that in mind
54:02
For our teaser at the end from this old Jewish guy. We're gonna talk about Um then day six he creates cattle
54:13
Creeping things beasts of the earth verse 24 things after their kind And this is interesting too because it it says cotton so God made different kinds of animals
54:26
One thing that that young earth creationists need to watch out for is neglecting things from the evolutionists that are true
54:34
Um Microevolution has been documented a Lot and a micro evolution is just this it's it's different adaptations within species
54:47
That no dogs don't become whales and fish don't become You know cats or anything but Different butterflies will change their color
55:00
Certain things that need even among humans There some of us are better suited to live in certain places in in the world
55:09
We have different Micromutations and adaptations that pop up Within us that make us more suitable to living in different different areas of the world
55:22
Microevolution is is a fact And it doesn't mean that macro evolution or jumping from species to species or all of us coming from a rock that got hit by lightning
55:34
Doesn't mean that that's true Right, but we don't need to throw away the baby with the bathwater when people are coming up with the actual truth because all truth
55:42
Things are actually true is God's truth, right? So, you know, what was it?
55:47
Somebody at the Presbyterian meeting told me chew the meat spit the bones Sure Good advice, let's see
55:58
God made the beast of the earth after their kind and the cattle after their kind the creepy thing and it was good
56:05
Then said let us make man in our own image according to our likeness So that they will have dominion over the fish of the sea and the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all
56:16
The earth over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth. So all the things that God had made before The whole of the planet the fish in the sea the birds in the air the cattle everywhere
56:27
Man is kind is going to be top dog over all of them. He's supposed to take care of them You know, he's supposed to work the garden
56:35
He's supposed to make it flourish and supposed to go not just from in the garden, but spread out over the entire earth
56:43
So he tells them in verse 28 Well, let me back up this is important nowadays verse 27 and God created man in his own image
56:54
What does that mean? I mean a lot of different things Four minutes from the end we can't cover that all today
57:01
But what it does mean is that we show God to the rest of his creation at the very least it means that And he created him male and female he created them.
57:13
So he created mankind Is the image of God to All creation and how did he make us?
57:22
We are made both male and female. Yeah, that's it He made us unique among creation
57:29
Sure, he made us Uniquely over over all of creation.
57:34
Yeah, and so what you're what you end up with then is at the end of day six
57:43
Um, he says everything was very good why because it was complete and some people try to say well mankind was made
57:49
So now is very good. We're not that special I mean who are special it is talking more about God and how
57:56
God had completed creation Everything he made wasn't just good. Everything he made was very good.
58:01
He made a very good creation I mean he gave us that place to live and then he took the seventh day and he rested and he showed us
58:11
To rest in him as well Just like those plants who didn't have son to give them food They had to trust for the
58:17
Word of God for every bit of their their being We need to trust for our
58:24
God, which also is a theological point that comes out in the days of creation And so that brings us to the that is the young earth creation position that God did all of that in the space of six 24 -hour periods at the end of the seventh
58:47
It didn't say started working again, but he rested on the seventh day and then he did other stuff We know we see him later that he walked with Adam in the cool of the day.
58:56
I Talked with him. He did other things with Adam I had fellowship with us all while we were doing our job of having dominion over the creatures and tending the earth
59:06
That that is the young earth creation position and it comes right from Scripture You don't have to twist it or stretch it
59:13
You just take it at face value and that is what what we believe as young earth creationist
59:19
Yeah, that's right So what what's your theory? What did you want to share with me?
59:24
All right, this is just interesting I don't know if it's true or not. We're not gonna we're not gonna put it up on the level of Scripture although it does deal with Scripture and and There is there's a
59:36
Jewish guy named Nahum Sarna.
59:44
He wrote a book and he's not a He's not a hardcore conservative,
59:51
I don't think I mean just some of the stuff that he was saying He dogged pretty hard on on the what he called the literalists
59:59
Which probably us? But he did Say that this was an actual account of creation, but it shouldn't be read as a science text
01:00:13
And one want you to notice all those times we had little theological implications that were coming out on the different days
01:00:19
You know, we need to rely upon God for our sustenance in day three. We need to rely upon God for this or we need to know all those different things that we're pointing out from before He said that this is actually a creation myth story
01:00:39
Designed by Moses to record the actual historical events of creation in the same style as pagan creation myths in order to show so the purpose of it being to show the superiority of The God of the
01:01:00
Bible over those other pagan Gods and and theories of creation that were widespread in Moses's day so It's really interesting because we've seen
01:01:14
Moses do that before Well not before I guess after in Exodus you notice that Moses is recording exactly what
01:01:23
God did He's recording that God had this plague in that plague in this plague in that plague in each one of those plagues
01:01:31
Coincided with one of those Egyptian gods that they worship showing that God is over the
01:01:37
God of the flies He's over the God of the frogs. He's know the blood and everything over there
01:01:43
God has proven the superiority to each of the Egyptian gods along the way what this
01:01:50
Jewish guy is is saying is that in the Creation account you have the same thing
01:01:57
This is the way God actually did it but the purpose of the narrative
01:02:04
The purpose of the recording of it for us in Genesis 1 isn't necessarily to show us
01:02:10
Scientifically how it was made But to show us that the God who actually created and created this way is
01:02:17
Superior to any other God that we could come up with in our head so He doesn't he doesn't deny a
01:02:28
Six -day creation What he says is that all of those people who see poetic language are probably right
01:02:38
But they're probably wrong when they take away from the six -day creation account
01:02:44
So that that poetic type language those things as little theological things that we saw popping up through or because the purpose of Genesis 1 was a
01:02:58
It was to write down in mythological form the real true creation of the world in order to prove
01:03:08
God's superiority over Any other God that we can conceive of in our head?
01:03:14
Yeah Which I think would be helpful to those Jews who would hear it, you know, remember
01:03:20
Mo Moses wrote Wrote this to the Jewish people who were no sitting there in Deuteronomy circumstances as they were about to cross over You know the the
01:03:33
Jordan River into the land that God was giving them, you know, what do you want?
01:03:38
Well All those pagan gods that God's going to tell you to destroy their people And well, they say they say their
01:03:46
God did this no our God did this Our God is better than their God because our
01:03:51
God is real and our God did it this way Yeah, so he kind of gives a new perspective on the purpose of Genesis 1 isn't just to tell us
01:04:02
What God did but to show that God is superior to anything else that we could come up with That would compete with him as God All of our idols put down there in Genesis 1, right?
01:04:17
So I've not heard of him. I've not read that material. So It's hard for me to make make too many comments
01:04:25
And I feel like from what you described. It sounds like he is going to be more right of center than center or left
01:04:33
But I can't help when when you bring up he goes back He he runs back and forth across that that right left center line
01:04:40
But yeah, I can't help but think about in my own personal experience having to defend against left or leaning
01:04:49
Christians who always want to bring in ancient Aries ancient
01:04:54
Aries because I mean I I'll give credit where credit's due Where I was first exposed to hermeneutics and Bible interpretation.
01:05:05
One of the great emphasis was Context context context. Well part of their context was the ancient
01:05:14
Near East Yeah, and scripture borrowed from ancient Aries And so I don't want to say that he is tiptoeing around that but I can't help but think of that when
01:05:26
I hear parts of that conversation Right. Well what he what he's trying to get at is that that You don't have to be afraid of poetic language in Genesis 1
01:05:42
You don't have to be afraid of there being other creation accounts. You just have to recognize that When God gave us this one
01:05:52
He gave it to us for a purpose to show that he was superior over the pagan gods of The day even today because he goes into detail about it was a e
01:06:05
Inu Enos, you know something though how fun it is right here right in the front
01:06:17
Enuma Elish, it's a Babylonian Thing and They kind of go through and talks about the different You know
01:06:30
Marduk and all the Babylonian gods, you know how they were were involved in the creation and stuff
01:06:39
So although he's saying you don't have to be afraid of the Liberals they're just taking You know
01:06:45
They were in the ancient Near East and so it would make sense for them to write in the style of the ancient
01:06:50
Near East Just like the Apocalypse of John Writes in the style of apocalyptic literature that was was common in his day
01:06:58
He's writing in a style, but he's writing things that are real and true That's what that's what the dude is saying
01:07:04
So I found it interesting that they just like we don't have to we don't have to interpret the data
01:07:12
The way that the theological liberals do just because they point things out to us
01:07:17
Yeah, there are explanations and reasons why we can trust that the scriptures have given to us an accurate account
01:07:25
Even while understanding that yeah, it's a part of an ancient Near East tradition But this is the true one and this is the one that shows itself superior to all things
01:07:35
Because God has shown himself to be superior Yeah, I have no issue with the fact that that was their culture.
01:07:43
There was their context So there's going to be into blue air in the what to be fair.
01:07:49
I don't know if that's what actually happened or not It's just interesting to think about here
01:07:54
But as far as I mean when you talk about young earth creationism and defending it This this will come up.
01:08:01
Sure. You know, if you do happen to run into someone who is more theologically liberal
01:08:07
But yeah, I have no problem. There's going to be influence because of culture but what what has always blown my mind is that how can a
01:08:19
Christian who is more theologically liberal Live a life of any type of security and foundation
01:08:30
When you say Our scriptures Borrow because the the creation accounts
01:08:41
Whatever else were older from other cultures other religions
01:08:47
Their stories their accounts their writings their records were older than what we have
01:08:56
Scripture borrows from those religions. How can you continue in Christianity it is to me
01:09:03
It just seems like you're building a house that is made of sand that will just crumble.
01:09:08
How can you live with any confidence? Yeah, well, I mean all you're doing if you take that at just very surface level is to say well this one's older so clearly
01:09:20
Genesis was based on the older one Yeah, and if you say that then you're getting into the developmental theories of how you know
01:09:29
Everybody was was a pagan and then they they developed polytheism And then the
01:09:35
Jews were just the first ones to develop a monotheistic system them or the Zora so so so so we're
01:09:42
Astray and ism. I can't get that word out But you know, there were monotheists back in the day
01:09:49
What would this guy actually brought up was that Moses did use other sources, but his sources are listed for us throughout throughout the
01:09:59
Pentateuch When he gives us different genealogies, he gives us the genealogy from from Adam to Noah Because he's giving us the source
01:10:10
His first source was written from Adam His second source came from Noah Noah's the generations of Noah As you go on into different chapters each one because throughout
01:10:24
Genesis is certain things are called the toll toll dots There are different genealogies and that list different aspects of the
01:10:33
Jewish history What this guy contends is that those were Moses's sources. They came he was given he found sources that were
01:10:44
Preserved by God for him and That he had he when he was up on Sinai he had
01:10:52
Those sources backed up as truth from God himself Well, just fascinating stuff.
01:10:59
I don't know if that's the way it actually happened, but I don't think we need The thing is that there are answers.
01:11:09
Mm -hmm. We may not always know what they are But like we like we said to start off with our presupposition as Christians has to be that God has spoken and since he has spoken we trust what he says
01:11:24
If we can't trust what he says about how he created the earth then how are we supposed to be able to trust him about how he's going to save our souls and That's really what this all breaks down breaks down to No, I guess somebody could take one of these other different theories and run with it
01:11:44
If they really truly believe that that's what God said And I'm like I said before I think some of them are problematic they put sin out of order and death out of order
01:11:53
But if you can't trust the account that God has given to you in Scripture to be truthful Then how are you going to trust him with the eternality of your soul that Jesus actually died for your sins?
01:12:04
And that you are going to one day go and be with him because Christ has taken your sin as his punishment
01:12:10
Laid it in the grave and he got up ruling over all things giving out his gifts to meant to mankind
01:12:17
You got to be able to trust his word and that has to be the Christians presupposition when we look at anything that has to do with With the early creation accounts with how we believe that the world works
01:12:29
We need to take God at his word because his own was it man does not live by bread alone
01:12:36
But only but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God if God has said it we believe that that's our presupposition that's faith and Then all these evidences when we take
01:12:48
God at his word back up what God has said in his word Other otherwise, it's meaningless.
01:12:56
Yeah, I mean it's like like shifting sands like getting blood around in the wind like you you just gonna
01:13:03
Yeah, that's right And so these are grounding in a world of uncertainty.
01:13:08
That's right. And and as Dan has brilliantly alluded to in in what he was saying,
01:13:16
I want to continue with that We we can have meaning we can't have confidence because we do have
01:13:25
God's Word Moses did give us his sources the the record the his sources from where he gets his record and so we can't have confidence that we we are hearing from God and we can
01:13:40
Know what God did and how he did things and that confidence carries over into the rest of Scripture and it carries over Into The the
01:13:51
New Testament And what we find in the New Testament is that through that one man the the first man
01:14:00
Adams sin in or enter the world and Through one man death sorrow wickedness evil
01:14:13
Through that one man but then Through the second
01:14:18
Adam as the New Testament calls him God's Son Jesus Christ because of him sin will be eradicated from this planet from this universe and It can be eradicated.
01:14:34
It can be forgiven and we can be back into a real life right relationship with God because of what
01:14:41
Jesus did just as Dan pointed out how God the
01:14:47
Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were all present and named and accounted for there at the beginning of Genesis it was their plan from the beginning as we read in Scripture that the
01:14:59
Jesus Christ who was who is the Lamb of God who was slain before the foundations of the world This plan of rescue was was set in place and set in motion from time and eternity
01:15:12
That God valued us his unique creation his image bearers so much that he would send his one and only son that everyone
01:15:24
Believing in him would not perish perish being the just and right punishment and consequence for sinning against the
01:15:34
Holy God and That Perishing is an eternal perishing. Why because is an eternally
01:15:40
Holy God God is that first calls and God has always existed as we understand him from Scripture from himself and so a
01:15:53
Just punishment is an eternal punishment because of the one whom we've sinned against but Christ took that punishment that was aimed toward us upon himself and the reason that Sin could be wiped away washed away by one man is because of the value and the person whom took that punishment and The Bible describes that person as the second person of the
01:16:30
Trinity Jesus God the Son He is God himself Though he came as the
01:16:37
God man 100 % God 100 % man fully God fully man in his divine nature
01:16:48
He is fully worthy to eradicate all sin of Those who would offend him for their trust in him
01:17:01
That's what we'd encourage you to do. That's the whole point of every Podcast that we do every discussion that we have every scripture that we look at is the point to Christ God's plan to redeem his creation otherwise, it is all meaningless and so If you've made it to the end and you do not know
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Christ as your Lord and Savior you're not submitting to him as King. He he lived a life completely
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Keeping God's law completely obedient to God in in every way obedient to the
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Father in Not just in the law, but in there in their plan of redemption obedient in every way he died on the cross
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Bearing taking on that punishment that we deserve He died just as it was prophesied raised as it was as it was prophesied.
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He ascended as it was prophesied And he sits even today at the father's right hand as it was prophesied the place of authority and he even says that to his disciples that all authority has been given to him in heaven and on earth and Those that are following him submitting to him as King We are to be going in baptizing the nations making disciples of the nation's
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Teaching them to observe all that he has commanded. He is our King. No one else And we would plead with you that you would turn to him tonight.
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Dan, will you close us in prayer? Sure Dear Heavenly Father, you're good gracious and creator of all things
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Pray that you would keep us cause your light to shine on us that you would sustain us and cause each one to come to a knowledge of you to trust in you and to Live a life of faith
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God bringing people to yourself in Christ name. I pray. Amen. Amen Thank you all for watching the truth and love podcast.
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We truly appreciate it and remember as always Jesus is King You'll live in the victory of Christ.
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Just speak with the authority of Christ and go share the gospel of Christ I hope to see you real soon
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Welcome to the truth in love podcast Join this Baptist and Presbyterian as they discuss theology and its application to life together.