Sata, demons, and the Believer- Laborers' Podcast

Good evening and welcome to the laborers podcast We are a panel of brothers in Christ striving to labor together in word and in doctrine

Tonight we have Rob with the truth and love podcast We've got real talk with big John Jones and we have

Providence perspective with Jay also known as the reform Rican My name is Tyler with bread of the word podcast and tonight's topic.

We are discussing demons demonic influence demonic oppression Possession what it is worse mean do we even know find out together after the wife?

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Welcome back to the laborers podcast Just to start off and not forget at the very beginning

I want to announce the laborers conference again coming up April 26 to the 28th in Knoxville, Tennessee at Reformata Baptist Church You have a laborers conference comm you can register for free

You can attend for free on the website Links the places that you can stay hotels places to visit things to do

But we would love to see you a fellowship with you and enjoy Being soaked in the word together by our brothers in the in the laborers podcast the truth and love

Network So we we are also looking forward to that that time of fellowship and time in the word together the money

I'm sorry. Just one more thing. Yeah, it's gonna be there Rob. It was gonna be there Claude it's gonna be at pastor

Claude Ramsey Church. That is Reformata Baptist Church. He's gonna be one of the speakers

I'm gonna try to do the lineup by memory. So bear with me Jonathan Foster is gonna go first and Okay, I'm not going to try to remember the

Jonathan Foster he's gonna go first. I think I'm gonna go second Claude Ramsey he is going to go third and then

Jay, I think you're fourth. That's on Friday. I Might I might be third actually,

I think Claude might be wrapping it up. I'm not sure but anyway, okay That's day one on Friday and then

Saturday starting us off. Okay, I'm Jeremy Jeremy.

Is it Jeremy? Jeremy Hall Jeremy follow him after that Tyler and then

Big John No, Big John's third and then Dan self is

Last on Saturday, and then we're gonna wrap things up with a service We're gonna join flawed those of us who are able to stay we're gonna stay and join flawed at a service at his church

Sunday morning service and he possibly is gonna preach the morning service on Sunday and that it's everybody and and next year

We're looking To maybe come back to Newton, North Carolina and maybe even have some more speakers and different format have breakout sessions again, but This is gonna be a relaxed time of just sitting back and enjoying the word learning and fellowship.

So go check out that website Demonic demonic impression influence possession.

I think I said impression influence Son What do we think about it

We may come from different perspectives tonight, but that's what we're all about. We want to sharpen one another

What do you guys think is the the difference? Between influence oppression and possession well,

I I'm not the experts. I will say that but I did do a little bit of digging into The original languages as to what is being translated to possession and The Greek word is literally to hold

That when we find talk in the New Testament about people that are possessed by demons that are

Possessed this or possessed that it is literally that they are held by demons by an unclean spirit and so the typical

Definition I've been given from pastors before in regards to possession and oppression is

That there are times where a demon has hold of somebody you may even say within somebody if you look at like Luke 11 you have that an interesting picture there, but oppression is external

Interaction not necessarily in a person or directly moving them, but doing things around them so to speak

Yeah Pretty solid. I would agree with Tyler. I don't really make a distinction between influence and And the pressure and excuse me,

I would say that they are essentially the same thing. Maybe I mean, maybe there's a variable

I'm not really too sure but you know, I would say Oppression Primarily, although I wouldn't say uniquely but primarily is when you have a demon demonic force trying to get someone to fall into sin as specifically a

Christian You know and we can see that in Ephesians 6 11 first Peter 5 8

You know and and so that in terms of Oppression, you know what a

Christian is called to do is to resist the devil right to resist Five nine four seven

But I would say Oppression is that Christians cannot be

Possessed right? I don't see any That indicate a

Christian can be possessed And certainly, we know that we have the Holy Spirit or 26

And even the end of Matthew 24 I'm sorry, Matthew 28 20 I'm with you always

So I would say those are the distinctions Yeah, and I appreciate that because I really want us to To try to look at What we see in Scripture because that's the

Scriptures is what's going to inform us How did Satan work in the Old Testament is it different than a

New Testament New Covenant in the church as opposed to How God was working with Israel?

How was Satan and demons working at that time? Is there a difference and we we definitely want to draw from Scripture What that looks like for us obviously, you know the application

For us because that you know, that's where we are Which three of these and you were touching on this day, which three of these the believers need to be concerned with personally

I would I would say that If we're going to use

Matthew as an example Influence and oppression are probably the only things that the

Christian as a personally would need to be concerned about gravely and that's because well,

I mean influence and That's kind of a sliding scale. I think right. There's the world we live in is is

Obviously Demonically influenced in almost every environment, right? I mean so you'd have to be

I don't know completely Living under a rock to be completely absent from any kind of demonic influence on society.

However We're more than conquerors through Christ. So we we need not fear that rather than that We can just resist the devil and he'll flee from us.

We're told in Scripture. So Our in our own person

We probably ought not have reason to fear being possessed long as we're

Christian If we're talking about being cognizant and Aware of those around you if there's if there's those around you who are not saved

Then you might need to be aware of whatever kind of demonic activity that person may be a part of or may be possessed

Which I know it's not exactly the question you're asking But if we're talking about things to be concerned about and things to look out for that would be one of them

Yeah I'm gonna wrap these next two questions up together and and I'm gonna read them

But I'm gonna and I'm gonna tell you why I'm gonna wrap them up together Okay The next one is what are ways to be aware and prepared in our lives for it?

And then the next one is what are ways to get through it if currently involved and the reason

Reason why I want to ask those two questions together is because J you and John both have said this

Resist the devil. Yeah, that's where we want to go. I want to go to Scripture here for tells us resist the devil

So obviously that was doing something Show demonic demonic world is doing something for the scripture to be telling us to resist him.

So let's take it from You know just the surface level I I like to dig into a little bit what that looks like.

How do we resist the devil scripturally? Oh, okay. That's great Well, let's go to Matthew 4 perfect.

My man. He's quick. He's quick Matthew 4 is actually part of the reason bread of the

Word has the name that it has Is because of Matthew 4 verse 4 man shall not live by bread alone, but on every word with that proceedeth out of the mouth of God and Specifically what is going on in Matthew 4 is

Jesus It says was led up of the spirits into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil

That's a great way to start a story. There's no it was a dark stormy night It was Jesus was led by the

Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted. I like how the King James words He was driven

And when he had fasted for 40 days and 40 nights he was afterward and hungered and The tempter came to him and he said if thou be the

Son of God Command that these stones be made bread But he answered and said it is written

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God And right off the bat we have this this this picture of this this conflict and it's a conflict that I think is somewhat reflected in in our lives

And we're told in first John that we we deal with the world the flesh and the devil and in a small way

There is something we can find related relatable in the temptations of Christ.

Well, it was colossally Different in the sense that he is

Christ. I'm not he was tempted In every way sure.

He is tempted Ultimately, this is him succeeding where Adam failed

Amen There there's a magnitude with the temptations of Christ that I will never know

But there is a small sense to which I can relate to the temptations of Christ because he was tempted in every way that I could be tempted and The way that Christ dealt with temptation.

This is the same way that I can Not because I'm perfect, but because Christ had the same scriptures

Yep Because it is written that every man shall not live by bread alone but on the words that proceedeth from the mouth of God and the

Satan follows this pattern he keeps He keeps coming back and it takes him to the the holy city and sets him on the pinnacle of the temple and says if thou be the

Son of God cast thyself down and then He quotes the Bible This for it is written He shall give his angels charge concerning thee and in their hands shall they bear thee up unless at any time thou dash thy foot

Against the stone that's Psalm 91 And Jesus says unto him it is written

Yeah, you just said it's written. It's also written Thou shalt not tempt the

Lord thy God And so it's not just that he had the scriptures, but he knew what they meant and he believed them

Yep I'd like to add to that if I can absolutely So while this is not necessarily expressly talking about dealing with Resisting the devil and demonic forces

Philippians 4 So then in this way my dear beloved brothers and my joy and my crown stand firm in the

Lord dear friends. I urge Aeolia and I urge Man, that's a tough word right there.

Somebody who knows Greek somebody knows someone's side Tachi to agree with in the

Lord Yes I also ask you true partner to help these women who have contended for the gospel at my side along with Clement And the rest of my co -workers whose names are in the book of life rejoice and the

Lord always and I'll say again rejoice Let your graciousness be known to everyone the

Lord is near don't worry about anything but in everything through prayer and petition with Thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God and Let the peace of God which surpasses every thought will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus now that's

I read that for for the sake of Context but I want you to listen to To what he's saying

Rejoicing in the Lord and taking comfort and and and pleasure and peace in in Christ finally brothers

Whatever is true. Whatever is honorable. Whatever is just whatever is pure Whatever is lovely.

Whatever is commendable if there any moral excellence and if there be any praised well on these things

Do what you have learned and received and heard in me and the God of peace will be with you

I contend that most of the time I'm going to say almost every time

But there may be an exception to the rule. You're probably not going to face a Demon face to face in a very physical sense the way that Jesus faced the devil where your battle is going to be is between your ears most of the time

It's going to be in your mind. It's going to be in a battle that you should

That you should have all kind of authority the same way Adam was supposed to have all kind of authority in the in the garden and if you find yourself in a place where I suppose

Influence or oppression seems to be bearing its head Understanding the difference between those things and possession as Tyler and and brother

Jay were saying Ponder on Scripture Read these words and put them in your heart rejoice in the

Lord rejoice in the salvation of God and the keeping power of God rejoicing the person the work of Jesus Christ and And praise him and watch these things flee from you.

That's a very practical way to To have these things be made gone from a

Pragmatic point of view there's been more than one night that the day stress or the things the fear of things coming the next day have tried to rob sleep from me and I will usually pick up one of Paul's epistles and I'll begin to read these truths to myself and find comfort in them and Usually not long after that sleep finds my my eyes so Just like Tyler was saying the

Word of God Contains what you need and you can combat the enemy with the

Word of God And this is one of the ways and in the battlefield of your mind is to praise

God because he's good and he's worth it and think on the things that are lovely and pure and peace and just and all these and And let that stay your heart in those times

Could it depend on the intensity of the influence and an oppression so to me

I'm hearing scripture say resist the devil and he will flee so in simplest terms when we say resist

Could we it'll be a circumstance where we say? No, I'm Not going to yield

I suppose it could be that simple in some cases, but then the more intense

The more we've let it in Previously, it's you could go as far as to say you need to call a brother

Mm -hmm and say I need help. I need you to pray with me I need you to to help me through this moment and there ain't a thing wrong with calling for help hmm, there is not a thing wrong with calling a trusted counsel and Somebody that you know is going to somebody who's going to give you wise biblical counsel someone who's not going to be

Persuaded to treat you Extra soft, but they're going to give you the truth in love and they're going to have y 'all would be an example of someone

I would call Right. I would I would have no reservations if I found myself in the press at calling any one of the guys on the network

Because I believe that as brothers in Christ that you first of all you'd answer the phone Right and that and that you would hear out what

I've got and you'd help me pray for it And I believe that that the factual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much

You guys you guys are touching on something that I was thinking about I did want to address

I mean we pulled up Amy Wilson Fonseca's Comment and then it went away I Wasn't sure

I'm not the one pulling it up by the way, so I didn't make it this beer Amy if you're watching Is me so You know,

I didn't quite understand the comment. What's up? Hey Leah's is here

Amy's Comment should many Christians find themselves in those tough spots. I'm not I think

She's making a statement not a question I think she's saying yeah, many

Christians can find themselves in those tough spots I think if that's what you meant, then no need for further clarification

Amy if that's not what you meant please let us know what you meant because we do want to address it, but yeah, we can definitely find ourselves in tough spots and I'm glad that you put these two questions together

Rob because Really the answer to them is the same, right? What are the ways to be aware and prepared for these kinds of it?

I guess you could say attacks in our lives What are the ways to get through it if you're in currently involved in them for me?

It's really you know, what big John was saying three things really prayer accountability and avoid isolation

I like what first Peter 5 which I already referred to But if you read it through 8 and 9 verses 8 and 9 on first Peter 5 it says this

I Know you guys are old -school English speaking guys, but I don't do that.

I do ASV so I'm gonna read it off the ESV. Hopefully you guys can keep up with me

It says this be sober -minded be watchful your adversary adversary the devil Prowls around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour

Resist him firm in your faith knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced

Excuse me by your brotherhood throughout the world You know

Why would Peter I think about why would Peter say That you should know that your brothers are suffering in similar fashion

I think he's saying in those moments when When you are isolated you need to remember you're not actually alone

Right and so sometimes we have to make that Concrete right which means sometimes you have to call a brother like Peter 5

Big John was saying, you know, you have to reach out. You cannot allow yourself to be in isolation

I believe that the devil loves it when we're alone too much. I Really do I think he loves it when we don't have things to do when we're alone when we feel isolated when we feel

Like, you know, we have no one to contact I think that's why the

New Testament pushes so much the priority of gathering together right not not

You know like Hebrews says Do not forsake gathering with the

Saints, right? There's a reason for that. It's because together we're stronger but Isolated we're like a lone sheep, you know, what can a sheep do by himself by himself or herself?

Not much now obviously, you know praise God that we have the Holy Spirit, but we are in a spiritual war at the same time and If you don't think about warfare, it would be pretty stupid to go behind enemy lines by yourself.

I Mean, that'd be pretty idiotic. You know, you don't want to go all you know, what was that meme? Leroy Jenkins.

I don't know if you guys remember that one from like a few years ago. Maybe more like 15 years ago 10 15

But you don't you know, you don't go like Cowboy on the devil and just say

I can take him on my own. I don't need any help No, you're insane bro, like if you go to war

If you go to war by yourself, you're gonna get killed and it's the same thing with spiritual warfare

Amy and you responded by the way. Yeah, I got it up there that way you can see it alright, so One of the things

I was thinking about when you was talking is in the garden It says that God come and walk with Adam in the cool of the day

Right. So let's consider how the attack against the family began how the attack against God's creation began the enemy comes into the garden and he confronts the weaker of the two right he confronts the woman and Deceives her who then she deceives her husband in any case

The the point is you notice he didn't come into the garden in the cool of the day when the

Lord would be there He didn't step on to the garden whenever the king of glory was walking through right so it's

When you say that we have the Holy Spirit, I think that that's one reason why

Christians We see no evidence in Scripture where Christians are ever possessed.

They may be They may have been possessed in the case of some and once they were delivered and God saved them

Then there's no longer ever you see a case of possession You see a warning about being delivered from demonic activity and not coming to Christ and in the book of Matthew, right?

Matthew says at 12 Something like that. I'm not sure

I found the house. It says when an unclean spirit comes out of a man at Rome's and for water places waterless

Places looking for rest But doesn't find any and it says I'll go back to my house where I came from and arrives finds a house vacant swept and put in order

Then off it goes and brings it seven others worse. So it brings seven other spirits more evil than itself and Enter and settle down there as a result.

The man's last condition is worse than his first This is how it is with this evil generation. So Had Had the house not been empty had there been a strong man in the house

It would have been like the Lord in the garden and there wouldn't have been no no way The enemy could have come in you understand. So just as well as that's what

I was thinking about when you stalking for the J Yeah, yeah, and you made me think about personal example

Absolutely. Yeah, I guess I know we've been we've been talking a lot of the scripture and kind of the theory

But to be brutally honest and kind of what does it look like to flesh this out

About About a year ago. I think it was I was blindsided by Crippling and depression in a time that I like to refer to as the week on my knees

In close to a decade of walking with Christ. I have never known a Pit that deep before and I'm looking back.

I would say it was Demonic in keeping with the spirit of many of the

Puritans with a spirit of melancholy It was a temptation to despair When my circumstances didn't justify it and it was very quick It was very hard all of a sudden and it got to a point that I was praying the

Psalms Constantly Psalm 130 Every hour on the hour and in those moments in that week that I spent on my knees going

Why art thou cast down? Oh my soul my worship became warfare

Mmm, it became a declaration of war Against what I was being told and what

I thought I wanted in the moment I was declaring war on the world the flesh and the devil hmm

And So when we talk about demonic oppression and we look at Matthew 4 and we look at Luke 11, we look at first Peter 5

Ultimately how we are prepared how we combat this is by directing our eyes to Christ, right?

Even when it's not easy even when it hurts Even when it's painful

It will be painful sometimes and there are times when God makes things crooked and it's okay

Part of this thing. We call the Christian life is is trials is tribulations is sufferings but God is always with us and So when we have those those low points, we have demonic oppression.

We have spirits of melancholy when we are Dealing with this we can turn our eyes to Christ And then

I mean that's that was amazing by the way, that was beautiful Absolutely, that was beautiful and I I'm gonna say something that I think you hit the nail on the head here as well

Looking to Christ is a declaration of war against demonic forces

That's exactly what it is Because what is the devil's primary objective when it comes to Christians for us not to look to Christ?

That's he will do everything in his power Not to let us look to Christ He will tempt us if we fall into a sin.

He will convince us that we this time we will not be forgiven He will lead us into seasons of depression

I mean he will do absolutely everything to make us think that we have been cut off from Christ right, so that So exactly so that we say this is it

I can't go back That's exactly what he wants and it is warfare

You know, I think of it as as Jacob wrestling with God You know saying

I will not let you go until you bless me. I will not let you go until you bless me You know, it's the same thing

We have this spiritual war and sometimes we have to fight Even even honestly even in seasons of plenty

Right what typically what happens in seasons of plenty to a Christian they say well Yeah, exactly, you know you want to relax you're like, ah, do

I really have to read the Bible? Do I really have to pray right now? You know what? I'm saying? Like that That in itself is spiritual warfare as well, you know, because sometimes the devil he's a crafty little fella

He is a little fella by the way compared to God, of course Because When when he realizes well,

I can't get this guy depressed. I can't get that this guy to get his eyes off of Christ Whenever he sins

Maybe I'll just get him to relax Yeah You know what? I mean? So yeah, and that's good.

That's why Peter tells us to be watchful always I see it and season and now there you go

Just Robbie's gonna say something well just in response to what all three of you have been saying Jay you and John both talked about location and It caused me to think of an additional

Location or place that we don't want to be in addition to isolation You you

John talked about the Lord being in the cool today in the garden location We want to avoid being putting ourselves in a situation

Absolutely to be tempted or or we can be more easily influenced or oppressed

So just in addition to isolation that would be a place to avoid And Tyler going back to what you brought up earlier

I'm glad you brought up the example of Christ and and his temptation It made me think about last night we were part of our

Evangelism initiative that we're doing a church our one of our other elders He was leading the teaching that night and he we've been talking about we were talking about the authority of Christ it's the authority of God over all things and he took us to Proverbs chapter 21 and We read verse 1 the king's heart is like channels of water in the hand of the

Lord He turns it wherever he wishes. So the question was, you know What do we see there that and how does it apply to us and I said hell in ISM If if the king who is holding the highest position in the land if The king who holds the highest position in the land if God Has authority over him.

He has authority over all men and I was thinking about that as Tyler was bringing up the temptation of Christ and how if if Satan Can go after our

Lord who are we to think that he wouldn't you know, come up those comfortable times those relaxed

He's gonna come after us who are we that he wouldn't exactly So so I want to I want to take exactly what you're talking about And I hope my internet still working because y 'all keep glitching on me and I think it's on me

And I want to uh, I want to kind of come at it from the other side of that coin The devil is not on my present

He can't be everywhere at one time, right? So People can kind of rest at ease

That we don't have a single documented case of Satan confronting Paul We have a documented case of a messenger of Satan buffeting

Paul If Paul was not important enough for the devil to show up Fortunately, we're not either right if the writer of half the

New Testament Couldn't couldn't get an appearance from old slew foot himself.

Then it's it's unlikely that You would be confronted by the devil quote -unquote as some people say all week

So oftentimes you give him too much credit Oftentimes, what is the old statements, you know, the devil made me do it just sometimes, you know, you have you had

You have to answer what you're doing sometimes being stupid as well as wine, right? I mean sometimes bad decisions follow you and they're really not anything other than bad decisions

We chalk a lot of things up to demonic activity influence for instance You would be hard -pressed.

I believe to watch a modern secular award show without seeing some kind of influence that Demonic activity has had on either the movie industry or the music industry or the award ceremony itself, right?

So I've heard I don't know that for sure because fat boy don't watch it So you can you can avoid a lot of that influence by just not partaking of that influence, right?

Do you have a television Oscar? I keep hearing about. Yeah, right. It's same guys that Mr. Jim Jim or whatever his name is

You can take your television remote and there's a circle with a line this kind of perpendicular to the top

It's not tangential to the side, but it's perpendicular with with like 12 o 'clock If you hit that button, it just cut off and then you could do a crazy thing

You could grab one of these and you can get a good light. I've got one right here.

It's fantastic Let's 60 watts of warm daylight and you can just read truth and you can believe the truth over the lie and You can find yourself

Far better served in this world in the especially the world to come So the influence you can you can remove and you can

Resist the devil a lot of times by just staying away from the things in the places that he influences

It's really sometimes it's that simple And the reason you get bound up is because you're giving the devil a foothold in your life

You you've got things you got sacred cows in your life like your music or your television programs that you really

I'm gonna watch that Television program because I got to see how it ends I've been watching it for 15 years or whatever and and somehow another every new contestant on it or not contestant

Actor or whatever. They all have to be gay now to make the cut or whatever Right, and so just just quit watching the garbage and then you don't have to worry about it but people

That find themselves oftentimes Oppressed because of the influence in their life have allowed that to happen

Yeah, you know simply a lot of it, you know, you know, what's sad about that John?

I Know that I've struggled with that in the past You know what? I mean like letting go of certain things that I know

I have to let go of But when I look to Christ, it's like well, okay, it's not that hard. You know what

I mean? But it's wild to me. It's crazy to me how sometimes People who you look around you're like man.

This person is a better Christian than me And I'm not judging them right that's that's not what I'm saying, but it's wild to me like it's it's

I Almost don't understand it like how those same people have something like that in their lives and they can't seem to let it go

And I'm like, how can this person? who Almost in every way seems like a better Christian than me can't let this one thing go or like, you know

We talked about being biblical, you know Like we could we could have a Bible study with this person and I'm not trying to point fingers, you know

Again, I struggle with it myself. You know what I mean? But but I'm just saying like I'm it's not a judgmental thing

It's just like an amazement thing how how much we need God That's that's the point that I'm trying to make that you can look at somebody

So godly sometimes and then you find what their idol still is right from that that remaining corruption of the flesh where they still have some corruption and They can't let it go and they can't let it go and it's like Wow, you really are human.

You know what I mean? You know so that so that no one may boast I really truly believe that the

Lord Allows these things to happen as dark as they are so that everybody can be reminded.

Hey, no one's perfect here, but me But it is it is crazy. Anyway, we're going off on another tangent

We're not even talking about But that's practical application one of the things before we move on and I don't know what the next question is because I didn't read ahead yet, but I We've got as far into the questions as I've prepared for you know, just I'm just letting you know

Is that I mean I'm being honest confess your faults one to another anyway, so the if you're listening to this and you found yourself in a place where you are

It sound like I was being overly critical or maybe I was making fun of your condition I'm really not making fun of your condition if you're a believer

We've addressed that you you really have no fear of being possessed But you can be oppressed you can be influenced.

You're not impervious to demonic influence Not none of us can be impressed.

You can be impressed Oppressed influenced and you can be I guess you can be upset.

I don't know. There's another word I can't rap maybe maybe Tyler you could teach me from your earlier rap days anyway

There's there's a lot of things that you can do first of all is don't don't give in to despair if you find yourself in those positions where You you're against the you're in the press

Brother Tyler was given an example of how he was so depressed because of what he referred to as demonic activity or demonic influence

Or I actually forgot what you call it But for somebody that he was under a spiritual attack So he prayed the

Psalms every hour on the hour That's how he was successful. Not that he was successful, but that Christ was successful through him through his word if you're in an environment where things are

Not conducive to an active prayer life. Sometimes you need to remove yourself from that environment

I'll give you an example without naming any names. I Was delivered when

I was saved from alcoholism I don't go around people who drink not because I'm scared one bit about ever taking a drink again

Because I don't want to drink anymore there's nothing on a bone in me that wants to but I also know that I'm very weak and I'm Frail and I don't want to put myself in a position

That I don't have to be in just frankly. I don't have to be in that position So if you don't have to be then don't so if you're watching and you think

Man, I've I've sinned I fell into this trap of the enemy and now I can't be forgiven brother

Jay was talking about this a while ago. That is a lie That is 100 % unequivocally a lie.

Don't you believe it for a second? Don't you give up hope? Don't you give in to despair if you've messed up just get back up and brush your britches off and then find your word

Find a place to pray ask God to forgive you and move forward. Don't don't get don't beat yourself up about that one more minute

I'm not giving you an excuse to sin. I'm just giving you hope to have You're beyond forgiveness is a demonic attack in itself.

Sure. Yes. Let me say something about that Whenever we think that we cannot be forgiven.

We're essentially in some sense blaspheming We're saying Christ's blood is not enough

Like think about that If that doesn't come from some kind of demonic force, I don't know, you know,

I don't know where it comes from I mean, I mean, you know to say that Christ is not enough.

I mean, that's What else can I say about it? I'll tell you guys this off there.

Um, so Johnny um, you you were you brought up a topic that I wanted to ask the questions related to it

You talked about we giving Satan too much credit. Sure. So I related to that We have knowledge of Satan demons

Activity But we are limited. Also. Do you think it's possible that not only do we give

Satan too much credit in some instances? Do you think some of our? Leaders in churches

Seem to portray that they have more knowledge than then what they really do about their activity

Satan's activity demonic activity I Don't 100 % know what you're talking about.

So I don't want to feign ignorance on this I think I know an example of what you're talking about, but I don't want to use any names

To for one not because I care about defaming an individual but more than I don't want people to look him up and find

Find any snares that might be laying out there, which is it? Which I think is one one thing we can be guilty of Christians is

If you know of somebody who's a false prophet and you go to share in his name and all the things that he's doing

You might actually drive people to watch his stuff and they might accidentally believe a lie. So yeah

You know, it's a that's a personal conviction of mine I try not to yeah But but if there's there's sometimes an over over fixation with things that are demonic and I think that sometimes

Little boys get in behind pulpits and they want to talk a lot about warfare because they've never actually fought anything and from a comfortable

Position and they spend more time hollering and screaming about things They don't really know nothing about than what they find in Scripture and it's more about building up their own

Reputation and building up their own kingdom on this earth, which is going to burn Boy let me tell you something that's gonna be one of the shorts that's gonna pop up later on that Rob Rob Those shorts that you generate by the way, we got this

This troll in the chat. I don't know if we can remove This guy's having a field day with us apparently so just wanted to let you know, whoever's running the chat

I don't know if you want to go ahead and remove him or what but I will I don't know how to do that. Okay, well

He's just going off. But yeah as I was saying, yeah that mark that down.

There you go 40 at 43 minutes. We have a clip for one of the shorts

So yeah Well, I don't want to give him away my secrets on air about how

I make the clips, but I'll reveal that to you later No problem. I'm just saying keep that in mind.

Okay, that was that was good Right there. Absolutely. So we can probably

Combine these next two questions together And I'm curious what you guys opinion on this as well

Can unbelievers be possessed our exes exorcisms legit is so who administers them.

So Does Hollywood get it, right What does possession look like Can't do unbelievers still

Are they still possessed today? What do you can can they be possessed? Yes.

Yes. Yes. Yes unequivocally. Yes I mean, it's all throughout scripture. There's no

As a continuationist I wouldn't draw any lines in Scripture were to say were the giftings of the Holy Spirit would cease and or would

I draw a line were to say that the That the oppression of the enemy or the possession of the enemy against unbelievers still there

How are they exercised the only way they've ever been exercised in the power of Jesus Christ?

You don't have the authority to exercise any demons Christ does That's I mean whenever you see

Paul Talk to the diviner who was the getting all these silversmiths all this money whenever that's making these

Idols of Diane or whatever name was right? What'd he say that you in the name of Jesus Christ come out of her there was no

Thing being sprinkled on her. There was no the no rosary slapped about her head. There wasn't no

You know, I don't know what no fellow with a little white square in the middle of his neck come out there and hold her down to a bedpost not like yeah, he's just a few simple words and And it turned a whole town upside down to Just same fun fact the collars the priestly collars.

Those were originally Protestant not Catholic That right. What's the white square about?

I don't remember so I'll look it up later, but we'll talk after the show I just wanted to say that because you brought up the collar well, you know,

I see these people make fun of Hollywood's version of Exorcisms where you hear them.

I'm not gonna repeat what they say because I think it's blasphemous, but they're they're just taking the sprinkling I was a holy water.

I suppose they're sprinkling on them, right and And then it's burning them like it's acid or something like that, you know, and they're the head turns around backwards and Excuse me backwards terrible slipped out

Didn't mean for completely went southern for a second there. I'm trying to do better about an unsuit

The The thing is is in Scripture. We have an example where when

Christ Exercises someone who's demonic possessed. He may ask them their name

He may just say get get away from him or come out of her It's an exercise of authority

Really is what it is. Whenever he cast the Legion into the swine. They said don't cast us into the abyss

He's like, all right, where you want to go? Just put them in the swine. They went and choked herself in the sea. I Think Hollywood sensationalized something to try to sell tickets.

Oh, yeah. Yeah And I think just to go back to the passage you referred to earlier big

John with the spirit coming out of a person and going into the parts places and Going back to the home from which he came and finding it swept in an order.

I Honestly look at that and I see a person who is The demons have gone out, but the

Holy Spirit's not come in exactly And so it just gets worse after that.

Yeah, and so with the case of Exorcism or or however, we want to define it.

I Would say that the remedy for demonic possession is Holy Spirit possession

Hmm is for the Holy Spirit to take hold of a person. Come on now. The role of the

Christian is not necessarily to Put hands on people and do some kind of Hollywood ritual and they like throw themselves off around the ground and screech and all this but We asked

God on their behalf To save them to put his spirit within them instead of an unclean spirit to put a clean spirit within them.

Yeah I've seen people I've seen people that Were prayed were the preachers were praying for them to be delivered from demonic oppression or possession in the past and I will say that If you've ever been in that position any one of you gentlemen ever been in that position where you've seen that kind of thing

Brother Rob, I have not Jay So I haven't seen anything like that, but I wouldn't

Doubt that it could happen. It's uh, it is It is something that I will put it this way

It it makes every hair on your body stand up during this I was a fairly new believer and I was

I was in the room and this particular fella Began to he began to act out during the worship service and and I knew the man and I thought well, he's not acting like himself.

I'm not gonna say his name obviously and And one of the guys at church walked over to him to one of the ushers

I guess to kind of ask him what was going on or to behave himself and he got violent

It was it was it was awful and the pastor that I was under at that time

He called it an immediate halt to the so the portion of the service of worship and he said

I'm gonna ask it all the children and any unbelievers leave the room immediately and I would like all the men who believed to stay behind and I was a believer and I stayed behind and I was

You ever been in the woods and a wildcat holler I Have heard it on YouTube So If you're ever in the woods and you hear and you hear a wildcat go off, it's it's it's

Fury, it completely makes you stop. It is the loudest and And you know,

I'm a farm boy. So anyway, I've heard it and I tell you I scared, you know and call me what you want to but in that moment

That's the closest thing I've ever experienced in my life to being just petrified in the moment and couldn't move couldn't do anything, but just stand there and and watch what happened and And they prayed for him and it wasn't a long intense thing it they in terms of the prayer.

It was a very simple prayer just kind of like what I've read and When these men prayed for him he sort of slumped down in the floor and and sit up and and he apologized he was crying and Sure dusted himself off and they said it's okay and they hugged him and loved on him and he sit down and I It's like I'm going home

So, uh, you know we can We can kind of not make light of it But we can talk about it with with with ease in our hearts now because he was delivered and and later soundly saved, you know so I have seen it and it's not not something that we should be living in fear of as Christians as I say, but when

I say things like Little boys stand and talking about spiritual warfare that haven't ever had any warfare.

That's what I'm talking about You don't seek those kinds of things out because to see somebody you love and care for in torment like that is

Who wants to see that? who wants to experience that who wants to walk with somebody who has if you have to you have to but I praise

God for Biblical leadership that that walks with the Lord and is sensitive to what's going on around them and cares about the flock in order to ensure the safety of the of those that may be in The room who don't believe right so Have you guys heard of the haunted cosmos podcast

Yeah, I only heard about it when they were running against kid Foskey for the dead man walking Well, so that they've got a pretty interesting

I mean essentially what they do is they they take myths Supernatural stories and this and that they make sense of it from a

Christian perspective. It's really interesting really cool stuff And they even you know say well, it's plausible that this thing might exist, but it's not what we think it is, right?

How does this guy keep coming back Wesley Murray now, he's talking about Allah. This is interesting.

Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, so so You know, I do think that they are there demonic forces out there that sometimes

Make us think that there are things That aren't actually what people think it is.

Does that make sense? What I'm trying to say, you know, whether it's Aliens or You know mental illness or whatever.

I do think there's a there is a connection for example front between mental illness I used to work in a psych ward for a while and I Do believe that there's definitely something demonic happening in a lot of these people's lives

But it's not it's not uniquely a physical Ailment there there's a natural and a supernatural component to it.

Does that make sense? Of course Unbelievers can be possessed.

There's no denying that it's like John said it's it's it's in the scripture But in terms of what we ought to do for these people

I think what we ought to do is pray and pray and pray And preach the gospel to them

Now, I don't know about this last part. I don't think we should be talking to demons. I don't think we have that authority

I don't think that that would be wise. I don't think we should acknowledge them. I think we just need to keep praying

And keep praying and sharing the gospel with these people because I just touched on it. Exactly. Tyler touched on it.

He said well, what we need to do is get them Holy Spirit filled and The demon can't come back in there

Which you know that only happens through the proclamation of the gospel so This guy's got me off track

Trying to figure out what to do. Um, how does he keep coming back? That's what I'm wondering He's found he's found himself to own one of your your your youtubes,

I don't know which one it is Oh, so he's jumping around from yeah, he is not connected to mine at all

He's on I've got Twitter and rumble going and he's not there Well, I'm alone.

Don't worry about it Just resisting Don't don't worry man, it's

Still American people can say what they want to say. That's right. So I don't want to take this

Further because it lends itself to a a different topic altogether But you guys give an example of great example from scripture how you believe we should handle these situations.

So John you talked about the example

Where Paul says in the name of Jesus to leave?

What what should be our Expectation And I'm trying not to take us down that that rabbit trail to the other topic of cessation and continuation

Authority that we have You know the

Apostle Paul maybe had Apostolic authority to do that would that be our expectation that we could or our expectation our

Process should be the continued prayer the continued prayer the continued prayer and the guy All right. So let's let's think about what

Christ says for us to do Okay, go into the world preach the gospel teaching them to observe the things that I've told you and I'll be with you always

All right. So upon this Great Commission journey that you're on let's say you run into a demoniac, right?

Show me where that gives you some reason that you skirt what Christ told you to do I Preach the gospel to him

He explained to him the gospel the same way you would I don't know a homosexual, right?

Same way that you would I'm just an unbeliever who thinks he's going to get to heaven based on his good works and Whenever the opportunity arises that it's necessary I really believe that the

Holy Spirit will give you the thing you need to say when you need to say it And I think that you can be you know, you're a cessationist but I think you'd believe that wouldn't you oh sure so in any case and I'd see nowhere in any of the

Disagreements between you know, my camp and yours where Deliverance is ever given as terms of something that is

A Gifting specially for any group of people again. Christ is the one that delivers

He's the deliverer. He's he's the Redeemer. Mm -hmm. So you take them to the cross and You leave them with Jesus and and you just that that's the

I mean there is no secret sauce That's just the way it is It's not like a

Big Mac. Yeah, I mean, you know just just take them to Jesus. I Don't know how many times

I've thought that really Mary Jesus's mother Said a mouthful

Whatever he says to do just just do it Words of wisdom right there.

That's right. Yeah, another another good clip to remember Let's wrap this up with this last part and I threw it in here because it's

It's pretty Hot in some circles the these deliverance ministries deliverance conferences deliverance special services

Is it related to this topic? What are they doing in these deliverance ministries deliverance services?

Do they have a misunderstanding of What's going on in people in the demonic world how to how this process works?

Or do you guys have any any thoughts on that? There's a there's a great big umbrella over these so -called, you know

Demon hunters right the deliverance ministries, whatever they're called I wouldn't necessarily say that all of them are unsaved or not

Christian, but It's very likely that most of them are not You know, they they do a lot of weird things

I even you know, if you guys know if you've ever watched Polite leader, you know,

I had him on my show one time and we were talking about exactly this you know and so the common

Thing that they all do is that they basically blame all of your sin on having a demon, right?

So you're struggling with pornography. You have a demon you you Keep getting angry with your children.

You have a demon you you know, name it and it's a demon, right? Everything is is a demon

Beyond sins with a lot of these camps like you have glasses because you have a demon, right?

But They Isaiah Salvador, for example, he wears glasses. So I think we're touching more on maybe more like New Apostolic Reformation With those guys, although bill bill

Johnson also wears glasses, but anyway Yeah, they really just blame everything on instead of Because you know we can say

Demons can influence us and demons can try to tempt us to do to go and sin

But ultimately we're the ones that choose to sin, right? That's on us These people say no, the problem isn't you the problem is the demon that you have

Right, they're not really biblical when making their assertions They also seem to emphasize a lot of workspace salvation.

They emphasize the possibility of losing your salvation So you have to strive to keep your salvation Which you know,

I know that we can have differences on that but the the overemphasis It's like it's taking your eyes off of Jesus and putting your eyes on are you doing enough?

Right? They also seem to Emphasize generational curses or like chair children inheriting the sins of their parents which honestly contradicts

What is it Ezekiel 18 20 where like the children will not be held responsible for the sins of their parents nor the parents are

Sinful of their children Each one will give an account for their own sins something like that.

I'm paraphrasing Ezekiel 18 20 But the point is that I don't believe that most of these ministries are actually

Christian I think what they are is Charlatans who want to keep people dependent on them by continuing to tell them, you know

You have a demon and we're gonna have to keep on doing deliverance on you keep coming back to me

So I can keep on doing deliverance and hey, by the way, you might want to donate some money You know that that's that's the way

I see these things. I don't think they're by and large biblical or Christian Either one of you other guys have any thoughts on that so I have absolutely zero

Idea of what goes on in a deliverance ministry. I've seen some clips on YouTube I tell you who

I think about when I see this mess. I think about the seven sons of Siva Who struck out to try to cast out demons of people and they get there and they say what?

We want to cast you out and the Jesus that Paul preaches about they said Jesus I know and Paul I know but you

I don't know strips them naked whips their hiney and runs them home, right? So I think that there's there's a strong possibility that if these men are

Looking for a devil to interact with that they're actually walking in disobedience to the clear scripture that we've given this is

Resist the enemy and he'll flee from you and instead they've gone after something

That we're warned in Scripture against which is looking for trouble. We're to be spreading the gospel

This goes along with Some of the things some of the problems that I have with discernment ministries as well

Right, if your ministry is more about casting down people than it is about preaching the gospel and I'm drawn to question

What's your motivation for what you do if your ministry and his is solely about demon hunting?

I I can't see how you can look for Christ and Look for a demon at the same time.

I mean anyway You do the you do the work God's called you to do you spread the gospel

I promise you you're running or enough interference. You won't have to go looking for trouble. It'll come find you Well, let's let's wrap things up that was

I think it was good information and I lean Towards you guys on that and I appreciate you teaching me and helping me to learn and I hope it was edifying for everybody

That was watching and helpful. And if you have legit questions or comments, we'd love to hear from you if we can pray for you

All you have to do is type that in the comments as well But we appreciate you and your support and you watching and and the the shares and and again looking

Go to the truth and love network .com website Check out all the folks who are part of the truth and love network.

Check out their podcasts. Some of them don't have podcasts They are free. They're just preaching at their church.

They're pastors check out their their churches their sermons we love all of our brothers that are in the network and We appreciate all of them and all the all the work that they're doing in the ministry

So check all those guys out check out the conference coming up Tyler would you would you mind to share the gospel tonight and Jay would you close us in prayer?

Be glad to so Ezekiel chapter 37,

I believe Is it contains a promise from God of the in the

Old Testament of something? He was going to do in the future There's now passed from our perspective and he said

I will Put my spirit within And you shall live

We we've talked about demons all night. We've talked about unclean spirits evil spirits, whatever

Fun word we like to use we've talked about spirits Entering people taking hold of people in an antagonistic manner in a way that is manipulative.

It is extortive And but we're also Recognizing that there is a good spirit.

There is a pure spirit. There is a clean spirit in God and He demonstrated that in that while we were far off from him while we were

Cut off from him because of the sins that we all love so much He sent his own son

Christ in the form of a human To live the perfect life that you and I could never live

To die a perfect death that you and I could never die and to rise from the dead in a way that you and I never could triumphantly large and in charge rises from the dead demonstrating power over even sin in the grave and While he was dead

He bore the weight of the sins that we could not pay And that debt was was carried out on his account rather than ours

And so when he rose from the dead it was finished everything. He set out to accomplish for that end was done and so he goes back to God from whence he came he goes back to the father where he is today and He leaves with us the promise of that spirit of the

Holy Spirit which proceeds from the father and bears witness to the Son Mm -hmm that spirit takes hold of us and it's in a weird way.

We are Possessed by the Holy Spirit instead of a demon living in us.

We can have the presence of God within us, sir that enables us to Be what we weren't before to be who we could never be to be a son of God To be to belong to God to be considered his child

To be forgiven to be recognized as his own and We at the truth and love network implore you to come unto

Christ to To I'm sorry. I got distracted by comment to come unto

Christ with empty hands with a broken heart empty hands

Knowing that only Christ can make you whole That Christ did all the work that is needed to reconcile you to himself

And he will put his spirit within you and you will live

There's the

Lord Gentlemen, let's go ahead and pray Heavenly father,

I want to thank you for these group of men who are with me tonight and for everybody watching and listening

Lord God, I pray that this has been a time that has That has shed some light on Some of the things that are going on around us that we don't often think about But Lord, I pray that most of all that it has been a time that has glorified you and that has been encouraging

To anyone listening including some of us men here. I know I've felt encouraged to know

Lord that Nothing can separate me from the love of Christ Jesus my lord, and that's ultimately what this is all about Lord We thank you because we cannot be separated from your love and even though We may struggle with many tribulations many attacks from the enemy or God You are in control of all things

Our Savior lives our Savior reigns And Nothing will snatch us from his hand

Father may you be glorified in this in This time that we've had to get in this podcast

May this have been may this have been edifying to those listening all for your glory in Jesus name.

Amen I'm a man. Thank you guys so much and thank you everybody for watching. We really appreciate it and as Jay reminded us tonight

Christ has set us free to make war. Let's go make war together

Join your brothers and sisters don't leave them behind stick with them and Rely on the

Holy Spirit again. Thank you for watching the labor's podcast Pepsi real soon