Jared Longshore should have stayed a Baptist

Open Air Theology

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You can say what you want, but you won't around me. Chief among misfits.

01:10

A misfit in the trailer park at night. A misprint with the sixth sense. Been sick ever since my brother died of an

01:17

O .D. My true sense never made sense, either to me or anyone else inside of the sheet fence.

01:24

My 9th Smith on my right side. Why you staring at your cop dot sign and my

01:29

John Hancock on the dotted line? Tell me what's the bottom line. The bottom line is

01:34

I'm not right. I'm not left, but this elephant won't fight. There's nothing left but the spotlight.

01:40

Hold my beer, you can find me in the moonlight. You can say what you want, but you won't around me.

01:50

You can say what you want, but you won't around me. I'm within the deep end and I can't find my assigned seat to sit in.

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My theology don't fit in. Black sheep of the Reformation sheep pen. To the

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Reformed, I'm just another Baptist baptized again. The bastard child of Anabaptist.

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Host to child of Reformation society. We don't need your education.

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Give me a Bible and a bookshelf of dead men. Cigars, bourbons and beer cans.

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Bow ties, tattoos and bearded men. Making Reformation great again. You can say what you want, but you won't around me.

02:46

All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Open Air Theology Show. My name is

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Jeff and I'm one of the hosts here of Open Air Theology. I am also a pastor slash elder at Covenant Reformed Baptist Church in Tallahoma, Tennessee.

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If you're ever in this area, stop by, hang out with your boy. We'll pass it down to the man, the myth, the ex -Mormon, the legend.

03:13

I am Pastor Braden of Valley Baptist Church here in southern Idaho. It's a real blessing to be able to see you guys tonight.

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Our church service is at 11 and if you live in this area, I'd love to see you every Lord's Day. It'd be a real blessing to worship our triune

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God with one another. I have a YouTube channel called Reformed Ex -Mormon and it's like I said before, it's a great blessing to be a co -host with these godly and wonderful, sometimes a little too harsh and mean and rude brothers in the faith.

03:39

I'm just joking. Hey everybody, my name is Tom Shepherd. I'm with Grace Bible Church of Birney.

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I'm an evangelist there. We head out and share the gospel in the streets of Texas. I'm a co -host here with these gentlemen here, using that word, small gentlemen, because sometimes they're rude and mean

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Calvinists, just saying. I also host a YouTube channel called

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Even If None, which is all about evangelism. So glad to be here. All right, sounds good.

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I hope everyone's having a wonderful day, a wonderful Lord's Day. I hope you were able to gather together with the saints.

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Well, since we're doing this on a Lord's Day evening, night, whatever it is that you are, we want to talk, we like to begin each show talking about how our

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Lord's Day Sabbath went. And mine was really good, man. Like I really, I really, you know, like the worship was really good.

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Man, we just sang such rich and beautiful music, man. Thanks to my co -elder

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Pastor Cal. He kind of outlines everything that we're going to do. And it's just like it just gets you where you need to be in the spirit.

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Right. I saw someone say something. I think there's quoting Alistair Begg. If you want to know someone's theology or something like that, listen to their worship music.

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I'm butchering the quote, but man, I just it just reminds me of, you know, of the music that we listen to.

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And it's just Christ exalting. I felt like my message went really good today. It flowed well last week.

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If you heard my message, I was really struggling with a migraine. This week was good. I was able to preach on the triumphant entry.

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So I got I went from John 12, verse 12 to 19. It was really good, man, through studying it this way.

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The Lord opened my eyes on some stuff that I never really saw before. Just grateful for his grace and allowing me to stand before his people and proclaim his name.

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Amen. Amen. What about you,

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Brayden? Oh, it was it was a blessed Lord's Day. I did a just just wonderful time fellowshipping with the saints.

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We had shared meal today. And so that was all. That's always a blessing to sit down and chat and joke and just just get along with one another.

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Today, I just preached from Daniel 2, 31 to 35, and then looked at the broader context.

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It was a topical message that I gave today, just looking and focusing on the kingdom of God and something that a lot of Christians, especially by my dear.

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Futurist brothers out there and sisters out there, there's there's some great spiritual realities that they are ignoring,

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I would articulate and argue for it. So it was it was a blessing to see those things that Christ has earned in this death, burial and resurrection.

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And my message was an hour long today. So was that I you're becoming a man.

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I only got through about 80 percent of my sermon to that time when I saw like the people starting to nod off.

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I was like, all right, well, you got to wrap this up because people are it's not enough. Five minutes after I get started.

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I don't care. So, yeah, it was it was a good message.

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It was fun. It was fun text. So. Cool. Well, so today we are our associate pastor,

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Frank Gutting, was preaching on the glory of Christ, the glory of God, actually.

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Went to Exodus talking about show me your glory. He stayed a little bit in there, but it was a topical sermon.

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And he went through, you know, bounced around through the Psalms, you know, scribe to Yahweh, you know, the glory he deserves, you know, and then went into Ephesians, all that.

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But on top of that, this was the first weekend that we did evangelism, both on Saturday and on the

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Lord's Day as well. And so there was a there was a kid and I showed a photo of a young man yesterday.

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I mean, I think he was maybe 12 years old and he was listening to the gospel being preached in open air.

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And and I could have punished myself for not going over to him and talking with him a little more.

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He got a Bible and he met the other evangelism that our team, which we had 11 people go out yesterday, by the way, which was awesome.

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And he was gone and he was just on my heart all night. And we went out there after the

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Lord's Day after service. And sure enough, there he was again and got to got to me.

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His name is Justin, man. He has he has a great understanding of the gospel. He was able to repeat back.

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I would ask him questions as to what he heard. And man, I just hope that the

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Lord moved on his heart. It was such a blessing. It was a great Lord's Day, man. I mean, that tops it off right there.

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Yeah. Amen. Amen. Yeah, I was able to go out evangelize on Friday and it was it was a very sweet time.

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We got a new guy at our church, Jake, and he and sometimes he gets on here and watches these.

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He's like Braden is an ex -Mormon. Jake is an ex -Jehovah Witness. And hoping to one day ever have him on here and kind of do an interview.

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So we'll interview him. I think it's really cool. Right. Like I'm really good friends with an ex -Mormon. And now

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I got an ex -Jehovah Witness who is a part of our church. He's out with me evangelizing like this is just great things that the

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Lord is doing. Right. Yeah. Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Well, I'm so blessed that the that that the

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Lord has given us this this great commission. And, you know, like a lot of people and it is right like like witnessing the people is frightening.

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But man, I'm telling you what, there's no greater joy. Yeah, there's just no greater joy.

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Right. I just love being out there doing the Lord's work, telling people about Jesus. And I try to tell people all the time, like, listen,

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I know it's scary. I know it's terrifying. But, man, if you if you just if you just put yourself out on the limb and do it, you will want to you will want to keep doing it.

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God will use you. God will use you. Yeah. I mean, he uses this broken vessel.

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I mean, you Jeff. Oh, no, they don't use me.

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Right. All right. So tonight's topic,

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Jarrett Longshore should have stayed a Baptist. What happened, brother?

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What happened? You let them press these get to you. He changed that number right there.

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He subtracted. He's trying to go to 1646, man.

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OK, so we're going to do here. We. So if you don't know, if you if you're if you aren't aware,

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James, excuse me, James White and Jarrett Longshore had a debate on.

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Who is it? It was it was it was who is what is. Yeah.

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Yeah. So to to kind of break it down for you, it was it was as if two debates was going on.

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Right. So you had James White debating from using exegetically using

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Hebrews chapter seven all the way to chapter 10. And then

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Jarrett Longshore is is not necessarily using the

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Hebrews text like James is, but he's coming at it from a theological view.

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Now, I think both of them are fine. Right. I would definitely have a debate with someone on this subject just using

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Hebrews seven through 10. Or I would definitely have a debate with someone on this subject just using the theological framework.

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The problem was, was both of them came at this the way that they wanted to.

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And it and it just left a lot of questions unanswered. So I want to give my flowers to both gentlemen.

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Right. James did what James do. I mean, James did what James how

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James did what James does. Right. James do dude. Right.

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He takes the biblical text and he presents it. Right. And then and then

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Jarrett Longshore did what he did. Right. He came at it from a theological framework. Yeah.

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And a couple a couple of things regarding the debate real quick, too. That was James White's probably 200th debate.

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It was Jarrett Longshore's first. It was correct. Yeah. Yeah. And as someone who just had their first public moderated debate.

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Right. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant guy. Yeah. Both of those guys.

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Well, I don't I can all speak for myself on this. There are a million times smarter than me.

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That's right. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah. I mean, just find your average everyday dollar.

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Right. Point cricket. Right. And before we get into it, do you have any thoughts about it?

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I haven't gotten a chance to watch the whole video yet. I know James White won the debate because he was arguing it from a Baptistic standpoint.

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And I already know that. And so I've had the great blessing to study Hebrews seven to ten in several different contexts.

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And James definitely came at it with the with the more biblical view. But I'm sure that there are some left unanswered questions.

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So you can't talk either. So, I mean, we're just a bunch of guys that can't talk. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

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No, absolutely. We are going to point out that that there are some things that were said that both of them are wrong in.

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Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Good brothers in the Lord. Absolutely.

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Both of them. Listen, I cannot I cannot tell you how much James White has done for me.

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Not not not in just my work. Right. Like he's helped me provide for my family by advertising me.

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But but on my spiritual journey. Right. James White is kind of like the godfather.

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OK. Right. Like like I love James White. If he called me right now and asked me to do something for him,

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I would 100 percent do whatever it was that he asked me to do. But the deal is, is that they're coming at this from two different frameworks.

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And so it's so when Jarrett says something, I feel like it's Jane. It's not connecting with James because James is looking at it from a different view.

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James is not looking at it from a 1689 covenant, Baptist covenant theology, or you would call a federalist, a 69 federalist.

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And so and so Jarrett Longshore is able to say things.

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And I don't think it's connecting with James. Right. And so it's not that James messed up.

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I think he just messed it. So we just had a wonderful question asked that I hope we answer later.

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But I don't think it's the right time to answer it quite yet. But that is a great question. That was just asked by Mr. Hudson on Mr.

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Hudson. Mr. Hudson, welcome. If you've not I've not seen your name here, but welcome. Thank you for joining us.

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Do you guys know Mr. Hudson? I don't. I do not. Great question. Well, well, let's try to address that later.

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But all right. Well, remind me. We'll pull it up on the thing and look at it.

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Yeah. All right. Well, let's get started, gentlemen. All right. We're going to go and we're going to.

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So. So, Tom, will you introduce this first section while he's pulling it up?

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Yeah. So. So this is a one minute section, one minute clip of James White basically summing up his opening statement in his argument.

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Who is in the new covenant? What is it made up of? Is it made up of just regenerate people or is it a mixed congregation the same way

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Old Testament Israel would be? So he's going to answer that question.

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What do you get your hand up for? I don't know if you can see my hand or not, just because of how small my hand is. But what's the minute marker that I'm going to with this one?

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I can get it. Let's go. Let's go. Twenty six. Forty five. And let's go through. Twenty six.

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Forty five. Yeah. And we'll go through twenty seven. Fifty five. It'll probably close before that.

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Ready? Yeah. Jesus Christ actually is.

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But this is a singular argument from Chapter seven to Chapter 10.

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Chapter eight is the longest biblical citation. So here's the issue. If we're going to identify the who is in the new covenant, who is in the new covenant in our day today, are those whose sins have been forgiven, whose iniquities have been taken away from the least of the greatest.

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And they know God. And therefore, those are the people to whom you give the covenant sign.

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You don't give the covenant sign to people who do not make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ in hopes that someday they will.

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And if you do, then you've got to ask, answer some questions. Are you saying that, for example, when when two when a

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Christian husband and wife have children, the church grows? Jared has said that we need to understand how that works, because hopefully as we form people, we don't want to go to any type of sacerdotalism.

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We don't want to go there. So how do we avoid doing that? That can be the question for the rest of our discussion.

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Since I didn't start my timer on time, I don't want to go over time. So I will stop there and hopefully remember to start the timer next time so I don't have this problem.

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But there's a quick introduction to the biblical argument, and I'm looking forward to hearing

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Jared's response. Do you want me to pause it? Yeah. That was great.

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Yeah. Amen. I would just clarify real fast for the audience. If this is completely foreign, you don't know who

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James White or Jared Longshaw are, you have no idea the differences between Reformed Baptist covenant theology versus Presbyterian covenant theology.

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It all is dealing with, especially in light of the covenant of grace, which is clarified in the

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New Testament. Who are the members of that covenant and who is to receive the sign because of those members being in that covenant?

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And so as Reformed Baptists, we're saying all the elect are part of the covenant, and you only give a sign to somebody that you can ensure is in the covenant.

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And so therefore it is credo baptism versus the pedo Baptist is saying that children are included in this covenant, regardless of profession, based off the merit of their parents.

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They're included in this, and therefore they should receive the sign before a profession of faith that shows their elect nature in God.

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Right. So that's really the argument that's going on here. And so what James has just elaborated on is saying only those that are in the covenant should be receiving the sign and only those inside the covenant are saved and none are saved outside of it.

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None aren't saved inside of it. And so it's Reformed Baptist covenant theology that you walk away with.

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Right. And one of the proofs that's outside of the verses that he used, I would go to Romans chapter eight, verse nine.

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It says, however, you are not of the flesh in the spirit, but if indeed the spirit of God dwells in you, but if anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.

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And so the spirit of Christ is only for the regenerate. So if we don't have Christ, if we don't have the

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Holy Spirit, we've not been born again. The Holy Spirit doesn't reside in us, and we should not be partaking in the sign.

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Yeah, another scriptural proof that I think it's Matthew 21, verse 43 to 47.

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I'm going to totally butcher the quote, so forgive me ahead. It's the area of scripture where Christ talks about him being the stone that is rejected by the builders and that anybody that falls upon the stone will be broken into pieces.

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And anyone that stone falls upon will be shattered to dust. It says that this this in relation to the vine grower parable, he says this kingdom is being taken and given to another nation producing the fruit of it.

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Now, if you consider that it's a singular nation, but we know that the gospel, which is what's being talked about, the kingdom of God, Mark 115 of the kingdom that Jesus goes into the city of Galilee, saying that the kingdom of God was a hand, repent and believe the gospel.

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This kingdom is the gospel going forth, right? This is this comes from my sermon today.

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The kingdom is the stone is Christ. The kingdom is all the people of God in Christ. And so when it says one nation, well, we know that Romans one, that there's no distinction between Jew or Gentile, for we're all made one in what?

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Christ Jesus. So that's the nation, the nation right there, that the

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Israel of God, the people of God, that this kingdom is being taken from the Jews in that day and given unto.

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And so there's several scriptural proofs that you can go to for this. And so what the, what Jared is trying to do before his argument, he's holding, he's trying to show continuity from the old

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Testament, from the old Testament, where, where the, where the scripture used the term, the people of God, the nation of Israel, which was made up of people who believed and who did not believe.

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There were people within that nation that were a mixed congregation of people. Some of them had saving faith, pointing to Christ.

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That's how everybody is saved is through Christ. And then there's another group of people within that nation.

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And where it gets confusing is because the scripture talks about the nation Israel, the people of God, the nation

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Israel. But within that community, within that community, there are both believing and unbelieving people.

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Yeah. And so, like, just to kind of say something that we've said before, right, because he's going to be,

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Jared's going to be walking and like talking about the continuity and discontinuity. And this is where I think

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Presbyterians actually fall on their face because it's, it's kind of like they're again, and I've used this analogy before, right?

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You have the guy chasing after the coyote, right?

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And he's trying to or the guy's not the guy that's trying to shoot the rabbit. Are you watching any of those cartoons?

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They stick a gun into the hole and the barrel comes back out and points at them. They pull the trigger and they shoot themselves.

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Right. Simply because of the continuity aspect of those that were in the old covenant, they would enter the old covenant through birth and then they will part.

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Then they would take the sign. So in the old covenant, you had to be born. If you were a male child, then you eight days later, you were circumcised.

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You were given the sign of the covenant. Right. And so the new covenant has continuity with that.

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The only discontinuity would be the sign is different. It's no longer circumcision. It's baptism.

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And it's no longer the natural birth. It's the spiritual birth.

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It's Pauline Genesea. It's regeneration. It's the new birth. You must be born again.

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And those who are born again, infants in Christ, they receive the new covenant sign, which is baptism.

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So birth before sign. Right. Old covenant, natural birth, sign, new covenant, spiritual birth, sign.

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We missed such a, Jeff, how dare you not bring up that analogy of Elmer Fudd? I know you've said it before, but that would have been the perfect thumbnail for this.

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Elmer Fudd with Jared, Jared Longshore on it. I couldn't get you to do anything.

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I can't ever get you to do nothing. We could have put above Elmer Fudd.

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Let's just stop everything right now and redo it. Just so everybody knows, the graphic, you guys might've known that it was done by an amateur this last time.

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And Jeff was just being nice, but it was found wanting.

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It wasn't very good. It was. It just wasn't funny. James White was sitting on...

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James White was sitting on... No, yeah, he was sitting on Jared Longshore. That was good.

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That was good. The idea was good. Yeah, the idea was good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was good. Melissa, you're right.

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It is absolutely Braden's fault. It is. He didn't have time for us. He's got too much going on.

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When you're always carrying these guys, it's really easy to point blame. Brother, with those hands, you couldn't carry anything.

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Look, look, do you guys see how I'm holding you guys up right now? I can't even see your hands. I'm sorry.

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Where were we? I'm trying to go like... All right, I'm pulling this back up.

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Look at that. All right. Wait, where were we at? Okay, so we need to go...

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So now we're going to go to Jared's kind of opening statement. You wanted to start, I believe, at 28, right,

25:55

Jeff? Well, if we're going to go through his whole opening statement, we're going to need to speed up his talk, right?

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And again, we might not get... I'm not sure if we're going to get done completely with this tonight. Yeah, so here's the other thing.

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Because there's a couple of... I mean, if you guys would pay attention here, minute 30, 20, we're going to hear

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Jared say something. See if you guys catch it. I caught it. These guys are going to catch it.

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And I won't say any more on there. But look through these things, and if you have any questions or say, hey, stop, or have a question, you know.

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Yeah. Hey, Brandon, do you know how to speed up the... I do.

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All right. Yeah, so speed it up a little bit, and then we'll just let him talk. You see how I'm still underneath you guys?

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I'm carrying you right now. Don't you worry. I got you. Hey, I pulled this thing up on the video stream. Look it.

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I got Jeff right there. I'm holding him up. Look. All right, y 'all.

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So just let me know when to pause. All right. Just do what we tell you to. Being able to have something to always protect myself with this

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Burna allows me to have that peace of mind no matter what. Come on. Impressive.

27:23

That's fast. Good Lord. I have to slow that down a little bit.

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1 .5. Oh, my Lord. Everybody, welcome to Open Air Theology.

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We are professionals. Good Lord. That was fast.

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That was a micromachine, man. That was good. You would have done it a lot faster. You would have done the experiment in 15 minutes on that speed.

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He's got his intellectual privilege at the door, but indeed. All right, guys. I can't get it to go too far. OK, so start around minute.

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Oh, we're losing people as we speak. All right, let's try it.

28:08

Here we go. All right. While all of our good listeners know that intersectional themes and victim identity are the devil, you must adopt them just this once for this debate only.

28:16

You got to slow it down, brother. Guys, I don't know how to get it to go back to normal speed. Try 1 .5.

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I have it. Look, Jeff. OK, try normal. 2 .5. 1 .25. Let's go normal real fast and see if it fixes it.

28:32

How about that? So, by the way, there is an echo. Proletariat over against James's hegemonic power. OK, so that is at 1 .5.

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It's just the echo. OK, do 2 .5. Yeah. The echo is going to be there. Like 0 .25, so then it goes real slow?

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He has that southern accent. No, not exactly. You mean 1 .25. Yeah. That's some rolling papers, right?

28:53

Well, getting aside, we should get right down to it. I want to get into the Hebrews. We should do that in the rebuttal. I'll touch on it here, but I have this statement

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I've prepared here. The prompt states that the New Covenant consists of only regenerate persons, and that is the crucial question.

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I grant that if this is true, then the rest of the prompt follows. So I will focus all of my attention on the central thing. Disagreeing with the prompt in favor of the claim, the

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New Covenant does not only consist of regenerate persons, but those who profess faith in Christ and their children. The first thing to do in order to determine who

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New Covenant members are is to define the New Covenant itself. A Costco member is one thing, and Costco is another.

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All right, so he's talking about a Costco member is one thing. I meant a

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Costco is one thing, but then a member is another. So he's speaking of the covenant as a membership with Costco.

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So what I would used to do is I would want to go in when I was with my brothers to Costco where we lived to go get free samples.

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And what we would do is we'd say, oh, yeah, Mom and Dad are inside. And so because of Mom and Dad having the membership, we could go in without a membership to get the snacks.

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Is that kind of what he's getting at? That's it. There you go. Here's your sign.

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Can you play that at normal just because my brain is not as smart as you guys. Well, if we have to play it at normal, maybe we shouldn't go over everything because it'll take.

30:15

But there's there's good stuff in here that needs that needs to be spoken on. Yeah, I don't think

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James White touched because it was just right. It wasn't what he was talking about. OK.

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And play. So am I going normal? What am I doing? Normal play. Normal play.

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Let's go. Itself is another. So it is with the new covenant and new covenant members. And that word new and new covenant implies that there was an older version of it.

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The Bible has an Old Testament and a New Testament. But only one Lord, one one gracious redemption.

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He says that there's a new version of it. All right.

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That's not what the new covenant is. The new covenant is not a new version of the old covenant.

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Right. So this is like if you grew up, if you know, I was a child in the 80s.

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Right. And there was this this game. And I was talking about today in Sunday school. But those I can't remember. There's this game to where you had these these like little toy monkeys and their arms were shaped like this and you would connect and you would try to pick up a monkey with the monkey.

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Right. By trying to get the arms connected. Never mind, whatever. Anyway. Thank you.

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This is why I'm in Woodford, by the way. There's no brain

31:43

Bigfoot into it. Okay. He's done nothing to deserve your ridicule. Right.

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Nothing. Anyway, so they would see. All right.

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So they would say the old covenants as you know, like so. So the covenant of grace beginning in Genesis 315.

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So that is its conception. And that all the other covenants. So Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic, they're linked to the to it.

32:14

Right. Right. But they also would say that as ministrations, but they would also say that the new covenant is also just an administration of that one covenant of grace where all the other covenants are linked to.

32:29

Right. And so he's going to say that here in a minute to in minute 30. So let's play this to you about a minute.

32:35

Let's play it to a minute three. 30, 20. Both the 1689

32:42

Baptist Confession 7 -2, as well as the Westminster Confession, affirm God's one covenant of grace.

32:48

And in order to define the new covenant, we need. Okay. Now, he's saying here that both the 1689 and the

32:57

Westminster both affirm the one covenant of grace. Of grace. Yes.

33:03

Now, how he defines it. Now, you just said that it's inaugurated. It's inaugurated or its conception.

33:11

Genesis 315, which it's not. So let me read Genesis 315.

33:17

Dude. Look at you, bruh. Look at you, man. Oh, guys. With them little hands.

33:23

You can do whatever you want. Okay. So now remember, you guys remember this is that Jared is saying and James heard this that 1689 and Westminster hold to one covenant of grace.

33:39

And what he's saying is, is that one covenant of grace spans Old Covenant or Old Testament and New Testament.

33:47

That's what he's saying. And that's where he's going with that. Correct. And the argument would be that it was inaugurated.

33:55

The conception of this one covenant began in Genesis 315. Here's what Genesis 315 says.

34:02

So this is after Adam and Eve have been deceived and have eaten from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, whatever that fruit was.

34:12

It says, I will put enmity between you speaking to the serpent and the woman and between your offspring.

34:20

So that's the offspring of the serpent and her offspring, the offspring of the woman. He shall bruise your head and you shall bruise his heel.

34:29

So there's going to be coming an offspring from the woman who is going to bruise the head of the serpent.

34:35

And he is only going to bruise the heel of the serpent. So he is saying that this right here is the conception is the inauguration of the covenant of grace.

34:47

It was announced. So if you watched our previous conversations about this, we showed how there's certain things that has to be in the text in order for something to qualify as a covenant.

35:03

And we walk through all of them to show you that all these things are there. But you're told what you're going to do and what not to do.

35:13

And if you do what you're not supposed to do, then a punishment will be given. Those three things are not found in Genesis chapter three, verse 15.

35:25

And so our view as Reformed Baptists, we don't believe that the inauguration of the covenant of grace is right here.

35:34

But the announcement of it, the promise right here, we see a promise of a covenant.

35:41

The promise is that an offspring is going to come from the woman that will bruise the head of the serpent while only bruising his heel.

35:52

And that took place on Calvary's heel when Christ was crucified. So when

36:00

Christ was crucified, that's when the inauguration of the covenant of grace began.

36:07

Yeah, that's a good question, Mr. Hudson. Just real fast. He's asking if an old covenant, when a new covenant comes, if it ends that other covenant.

36:15

And no, it does not. So Noah's covenant is not ended. That covenant still exists today.

36:22

You would see that the Mosaic covenant is ratified, re -ratified in Abraham, right?

36:31

So no, a new covenant does not end an old covenant. However, in Hebrews 8, it's saying that that covenant that included law and obedience that produced life, but death upon breaking it has become obsolete because the covenant of grace has now been initiated or inaugurated.

36:50

And that was where grace and life are given, thus producing obedience. I would just look at it like this.

36:58

So the Noahic covenant is a covenant that's always going to be here, right?

37:05

All right. So you have the Adamic covenant. When the Abrahamic covenant came, it did not get rid of the

37:12

Adamic. When the Mosaic covenant come, it did not get rid of the Abrahamic or the

37:18

Adamic. And when the Davidic covenant was given, it did not get rid of so on and so forth. But when the new covenant is given, the old covenant ends.

37:27

The scriptures tells us in Goliath chapter 3 that the law was only until Christ.

37:35

Right. So I was going to say Hebrews 8 is also very clear in this.

37:41

It says, what is ever growing old and obsolete is ready to disappear. So I'll read it verbatim here.

37:48

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one, which is referring back to the laws of Moses and the covenant there in the first one obsolete.

37:59

And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. So scripture says that this covenant, the covenant of law is gone in Christ, no longer existing.

38:12

Yeah, because he fulfilled it. Right. He lived the life that we could not live. Right. That's keeping the law.

38:19

Right. Not to earn righteousness for himself. He is righteous, but so that we can be merited with righteousness.

38:27

Credit it. Well, Abraham credit it. We debit it. And then he takes upon himself the punishment that we deserve.

38:36

So are we making a distinction between the old covenant and the Mosaic covenant? OK, so that's a kind of a loaded question.

38:44

And I would say no, because in Galatians and Galatians also. So in Galatians three, it's speaking of the

38:52

Mosaic covenant being added to the Abrahamic covenant. And it says that it was that it was only until Christ.

38:59

Now, are we saying that the Ten Commandments have ended? No, that's not what we're saying.

39:05

Right. We're saying also Moses as Moses by way of covenant has ended.

39:12

So it was introduced in Genesis three and then in Genesis 12.

39:20

What happens in Genesis 12? What happens in Genesis 15? And what happens in Genesis 17?

39:26

You want to go through that? Well, I mean,

39:32

I don't I don't think it's necessary for this for this conversation. But I mean, I mean, we have previous videos that we have done so and we can do again.

39:40

If we're going to get anywhere in this tonight, we need to. Right. Yeah, it's going to be hard.

39:46

I would say just real quickly. So so Jared's argument about one covenant of grace and you are correct.

39:52

He is correct in saying that there is only one covenant of grace that is talked about here. But it's the way that the covenants, the covenant of grace is handled.

39:59

Notice I have right here a wonderful document that I would highly encourage anybody that is watching to save to your desktop or your phone browser.

40:06

It's a tabular comparison between the 1689, the

40:11

Savoy here in the center. So the 1689 is over on the right Savoy's in the center and the Westminster's on the left.

40:16

And I would just I would just show you look at what how much different each one of these paragraphs are from another, especially when it comes to paragraph three for the 1689 compared to that of the five, five and six of the others.

40:32

What's being done in here is that this is worded in a way that it was very clear that they were wanting the other reformed individuals at the time to say that they could say amen to this, but also distinguishing their view of the covenant, which then is further elaborated on in the confession.

40:46

But I do think it's helpful to read this right here. It says this covenant is revealed in the gospel. So pause.

40:51

We got to remember what the gospel is for this to make sense. The life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

40:56

Right. The good news of salvation found in that federal head. And so that that's when the covenant is revealed.

41:03

That's where the covenant is revealed at. And it says, first of all, so that covenant, which was future for Adam, was first of all to Adam in a promise of salvation by the seed of a woman and afterwards by further steps until full discovery thereof was completed in the

41:21

New Testament or inaugurated or instituted or cut in the New Testament. Right. And it is found in the eternal covenant transaction that was between the father and the son about the redemption of the elect.

41:33

So notice in here, the Baptist is trying to say that only those in the covenant of grace, this covenant, right, is the elect.

41:41

But that's the only members of this. And so that's where credo baptism is going to play into it. And it says, and it alone, by the grace of this covenant, that all the posterity of fallen

41:49

Adam that have ever, ever were saved, did obtain life and blessed immortality.

41:56

A man being now utterly incapable of acceptance with God upon those terms on which

42:02

Adam stood in a state of innocence. Now, when you look back at this Westminster in Savoy, they keep on referring to this covenant as being readministered, readministered, readministered.

42:12

Whereas the 1689 is making it very clear that no one was saved under a law covenant.

42:19

No one was saved under a covenant that required lawful obedience. So that's the distinguishing factor.

42:27

Not by it. Not by it. Not by it. Not by it. Excuse me. Not by it. We would say that Abraham was saved in the old covenant through the new covenant.

42:38

Excuse me if I misspoke on that, but that is what the 1689 is saying. Troy, real quick.

42:43

I'm sorry, Troy. He said that what we're explaining is progressive new covenant theology or progressive covenant theology.

42:50

And it's not what we're explaining to you is 1689 federalist federalism, or I just like to call it

42:58

Baptist covenant theology. Right. Just in case people don't.

43:04

Yeah. Just in case people don't understand it. So there are some reformed classic covenantalism that some reformed

43:12

Baptist that would hold to, what do they call it? What's the term?

43:19

New age. What is it? Oh. The 1689. Holy smokes. Oh my

43:24

Lord. Oh boy. Look at that good looking guys. Oh my Lord. Hey, listen,

43:30

I was doing good things. I messed up once. That's my fault. Yeah. So the classic covenantalism is a position that reformed

43:39

Baptist will hold to where they would believe and they would hold to, like Jared pointed out, that the one covenant of Christ spanning through the

43:46

Old Testament and New Testament. 1689 federalism would not say that. Yeah.

43:52

And Eric Yeager might be able to answer this question for us, which I don't believe James White holds to 1689 federalism.

44:00

I believe he holds to the 1689 classical covenant.

44:07

And so, and I think that's why he didn't really give any pushback to Jared on that point.

44:14

Regarding that point. So why does, yeah, Michelle just asked, why does the old covenant remain if we are under a new covenant?

44:21

The old covenant doesn't, but the law. The old covenant is over. It's dead. The moral law remains and we can use the old covenant by way of general equity.

44:32

And so also, also the 1689 also lays out that the law existed before the covenant was given.

44:38

Right. It transcends. It transcends it. So it clarifies and it says that there's three divisions of the law.

44:45

And this is where the 1689 federalists would highly disagree with the new covenant theology because they would say that this doesn't exist.

44:52

But we would argue from a tripart division of the law being that of the moral law that always existed.

44:58

It existed in the garden when Adam was, was there created by God. It existed because it transcends from God's nature.

45:05

God has transcended. Thus is his law. And that's the moral law that holds all men bound to being falling short of the glory of God and being held to be accountable to him.

45:13

Right. From that, it is given to Moses officially formally there on the mountain. It's the very person piece of scripture that is recorded for us.

45:20

And it is by God's own finger given to Moses on Mount Sinai. And then following that, then you have two additional things that are done.

45:28

Ceremonial law that is given that we can clearly see in the New Testament has been done away with. So sacrificing animals, circumcision, so on and so forth.

45:36

Ceremonial law done away with. And then underneath that, also, you had judicial law that was a multipurposed reason for that law being given in the

45:44

Old Testament. One of the reasons it was given was it was to protect them. So Galatians 3 that Jeff already mentioned earlier, the law was added because of the transgressions formally committed.

45:54

Meaning, how could there be transgressions if there wasn't a law? There was a transcendent law that was being committed, that was being broken.

46:00

And so, therefore, additional law was given to hold them secure as a nation, to protect them as a people, to produce what?

46:07

Until the crisis, what Galatians says. So the whole purpose, one of the main purposes of the Old Testament judicial law was to protect them as a nation, to bring about and protect the promised future coming seed, which was the

46:19

Christ. Once Christ comes, that law is done away with. And there were other physical promises that were promised through the old covenant of works.

46:27

The stay in the land of Canaan, to have peace, to be fruitful and all that stuff. And if they disobeyed, well, then they would be out of the land.

46:35

They would be out of the land. So that's what happened in Judges. They disobeyed God. They went after idols, and they were oppressed by a people.

46:44

They called back on Yahweh, and so that's why it kept on going over and over. This graphic is awesome that Brayden made right here.

46:49

Yeah, so this is a graphic I put together. If you want to save it, it's on my Facebook somewhere.

46:55

You can dig through my pictures. Or you can just message Brayden, and he'll send it to you. I'm sure I can send it to you.

47:00

But so right here, 1689 Federalism, it's just showing that the umbilical cord. So in Scripture, we have the analogy given in Revelation 12 about the woman giving birth to the seed.

47:09

So that's kind of what this is playing off of. The woman is not the same thing as the seed. They're very similar in a lot of ways, but they're not the same.

47:16

They intertwine with one another in a lot of ways, but they are still distinct in nature and substance.

47:22

The Adamic, Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Davidic all give birth to the covenant of grace for different reasons. And so I just have a different comparison here of what each one of these covenants produced.

47:32

Can you pan out so he can see the whole thing? Because this will ask Mr. Hudson some questions right here. Talking about the re -administration to find the promise of Abraham.

47:40

So what is the substance of the promise? The substance of the covenant of grace is life in Christ.

47:48

So the substance is Christ. What's the substance? Look at the covenant of works there all the way back.

47:55

If you go back on your screen, the Abrahamic, these are covenant of works. The Noahic, I'm sorry, the

48:01

Adamic, right. And so that's obviously, it's all pointing.

48:09

They're subservient to the new covenant and everything. So the substance is the new covenant of grace, which is found in Christ.

48:18

And I would also say too, just to see this, if there's any work required, any work to obtain blessedness, it is by nature, it is by definition, not a covenant of grace, because grace is unmerited favor, meaning you didn't do anything for it.

48:36

By definition, if a law is given, like do keep these laws, do this and live.

48:43

Anything like that, by definition, it is a covenant of works. The only covenant spoken in scripture where there is no works required is

48:53

Hebrews 8 and Jeremiah 31, which is the covenant of grace that we were talking about. That's the whole reason by definition it's different.

49:01

If you don't understand the theology of what he was just mentioning, you can look it up. It's called law and gospel distinction.

49:09

And so we believe as Reformed Baptists, you have to have a law and gospel distinction.

49:16

If you don't have a law and gospel distinction, like Doug Wilson would say, which, again,

49:23

I love Doug Wilson. I'm not bashing on Doug Wilson. This is what he says. He says it's all law and it's all gospel.

49:30

Right. And it's not. It's just it's just it absolutely isn't. The imperative is not the indicative.

49:37

And so whenever I talk to someone and I'll say something like when

49:43

Jesus says, follow me. Is that law or gospel? Well, he's telling you to do something.

49:49

So he's giving you a positive command. It's a law. All right.

49:54

If you're unregenerate, you cannot. You know, you cannot obey that law.

50:01

Right. But if you are regenerate, you have the Holy Spirit in you. You can obey that command and follow

50:07

Christ. Now, if I was to say to you, by grace, you have been saved through faith.

50:13

That is not of your own doing. Is that law or gospel? Well, that's gospel. By grace, you have been saved.

50:19

It's not something you did. And so and so when you read scripture. So this is a part of that.

50:24

The third use of the law, we call it a flashlight. When we read scripture, we need to read scripture in light of what

50:31

Christ has done for us. So that the law, as Brayden would say, does not become the rope to hang us.

50:38

All right. Amen. Yeah. So also, he talks about, he quoted, to you and your seed.

50:47

So what is the seed? Okay. Well, there's a physical seed. That's what the Old Testament believers or the

50:53

Old Testament people of God were and people Israel. If you were born of natural generation and everything, that was a natural seed.

51:01

So Isaac, Ishmael, you know, all these. But then go, there's a spiritual seed as well. So what's the spiritual seed talking about?

51:09

Those are the people that are found in a new covenant Gentiles. That was the mystery that was known that it's not just the

51:17

Jews, but it's for all people. All nations will be saved. Everybody will come or not. Everybody, all nations will be able to come to Christ.

51:26

Those whom he appointed, appointed unto eternal life. That's right.

51:34

That graphic is incredible. Yeah. Yeah, that graphic's really good. I love it.

51:39

Yeah. Good job. Next, don't let me.

51:45

You guys have told me a lot of good things so far. And I understand it's really hard to like find bad things today with Brayden.

51:51

But, you know. Well, I mean, you want me to point some things out for you real quick? Yeah. No, we're good. Let's continue. Jeff, you did a wonderful job on that graphic, by the way.

52:01

What? Yeah, I tried. It's these big hands, right? Yeah. It's just these big old hands.

52:07

You did a good job. All right. Brayden Longshore, we're back.

52:14

Go ahead, Jeff. Hit play. Listen, this is teamwork.

52:26

Okay. Are we doing a name that mark or are we just playing this? Hold on. There's another question real quick,

52:32

Mr. Hudson. Okay, so Abraham was saved by grace. Okay, so just because he was saved by grace.

52:40

Yes, he absolutely was saved by grace and everything. And through faith. And what was the substance of his faith?

52:45

The promised seed. So Abraham was promised a seed that would come from him that would keep the law, inherit the land, and bless the nations.

52:57

And so Abraham had to believe in the seed that would come from him that would keep the law, inherit the land, and bless the nations.

53:02

And he believed that, which is Christ. He was credited with debit.

53:07

I mean, he was credited with righteousness. He was looking forward to something that has not happened yet. We're looking back at the same event that has happened.

53:15

So we are debited with righteousness. That's right. And Abraham, that's very clearly clarified in Romans 4, that Abraham was justified apart from the works, but through faith in Jesus Christ, the future, the promise, right?

53:29

He was reckoned with righteousness through faith. However, it references circumcision.

53:35

And then James 2 references the offering of Isaac. So there was still the aspect of which was required obedience in that covenant that produced life in the land.

53:47

Abraham, because of his faithfulness, received the faithful blessings there in the land. But it was only through faith in the coming covenant seed, the coming seed cutting covenant of grace.

53:59

However you want to word that to make it sound good. That's how he was reckoned with righteousness, not through the works of circumcision or offering

54:06

Isaac. I like the way Jeremiah - That's a weird way to spell Braden, Michelle.

54:11

But yeah, I agree. Braden makes the dream work. Yeah. So let's pull up Jeremiah's real quick.

54:18

Yeah. Different blood, different covenants. Jeremiah, we probably should have had you on tonight, brother.

54:26

I thought your wife had you under a leash tonight. She put the dog up.

54:37

All right. Y 'all ready? Yeah. Hit play. All right. The solid definition of this one covenant of grace, which

54:46

I define as follows. The covenant of grace is the heavenly father's solemn oath to man on earth of saving grace in and by Jesus Christ, conditioned upon faith, a bond in blood that constitutes an organization over and to whom

55:01

God says, I'm y 'all's God and y 'all are my people. I like the brilliant second person plural of the southerners there.

55:08

The new covenant then is the same in substance. It being simply a new and better form of this covenant of grace just defined.

55:15

The new covenant then is the heavenly father's solemn and better oath to man on earth of saving grace in and by Jesus Christ, conditioned upon faith, a better bond and better blood that constitutes a better organization over and to whom

55:30

God says, I'm y 'all's God and y 'all are my people. Now, that's a stout definition, but it's warranted given the word covenant appears 284 times in the

55:37

Old Testament and 33 times in the New Testament. I should highlight certain aspects of that definition before proceeding.

55:44

33 dimensions of it. First, I've made the point that is the heavenly father who comments with man on earth.

55:50

That is because the divine covenant with man is executed in history. What is in view is not the idea of a covenant.

55:57

It is not a covenant simply up in the heavens. A covenant is cut on earth. Covenants must be established or they are not divine covenants with man.

56:06

This matters because some of my 1689 Baptist brothers say that the. Okay.

56:11

I think he's missing a point at what we believe, but I think he's going to butcher it, even though he once held to it.

56:18

Right. It's funny how people do that. Yeah. All right. So he said that a covenant. Just, I want to make something real clear.

56:25

He said the covenant had to be cut on earth. Did I hear that wrong? No, that's what he said.

56:32

All right. Right. It's not there. It's not there.

56:39

No. Listen, if, listen, if you're a Presbyterian brother, listen,

56:44

I will, I'll, our church will be called covenant reform Presbyterian this week.

56:50

If you can show me in three 15, Genesis three 15, where that is the, the inauguration of the covenant of grace where it was cut.

57:00

Didn't happen. Where it was cut. I will bend the knee. Yeah. You will baptize babies.

57:08

Yeah. But I'll hold them under today. Bubble. Oh, we're not supposed to do that. Sorry. My bad. I'm bad.

57:13

I think they sprinkle. Yeah. I shoot them with a squirt gun. Yeah. All right.

57:19

He also said that it was in three 55. He said that it was the same substance. Same substance.

57:26

Yeah. Listen, the, the, the Pascal lamb was not Jesus Christ. That's right. But the Pascal lamb pointed to Jesus Christ.

57:34

Amen. It was a huge difference. That is a huge difference. They, they're messing the type antitypes, the two tier typology.

57:42

Yes. Huge. Which he knows this. He was the one that, that encouraged

57:48

Samuel Renahan to put out that book, which he put it out with founders. When he was a part, when he was a

57:55

Baptist. That one. I don't get how you can be a part of something and then misrepresent the something that you were once a part of.

58:06

Right. Well, it doesn't fit his argument. Well, I shouldn't argue that way.

58:12

Yeah. All right. Go ahead. The covenant of grace was never inaugurated, formalized, or cut on earth in the old

58:19

Testament. It's not happening until the new covenant itself in Christ. But this would leave Abraham, Moses, David, and all of our other old

58:26

Testament brothers being saved outside of God's covenant of grace, which according to them had not yet arrived on earth yet.

58:33

And I held something pretty much that position. Yeah. All right. We done answered this question. Yes. And he's, and I'm glad that we answered it earlier.

58:43

So, and he said that he used to hoe to something similar to that. No, he held to that.

58:50

Not similar. To that. So what

58:57

I have pulled up here is chapter 26 of the 1689 confession. It is on the church.

59:03

And so I would define the church just on the topic of covenant here. I would add that it is all those who are a part of the covenant of grace because therefore they are saved.

59:13

And so paragraph one says this, the Catholic, that is universal church, may be called invisible with respect to the internal working spirit and truth of grace.

59:24

It consists, listen to this, of the full number of the elect who have been, are, or will be gathered into one under Christ, her head.

59:38

The church is the spouse, the body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

59:48

Hebrews. There's several places that we can go to discuss this, but the point of that I'm trying to make with this.

59:55

Yep. Hebrews, Hebrews, listen, Hebrews is a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful book.

01:00:01

But Hebrews, Hebrews 12, 23, it says all those enrolled in heaven.

01:00:06

And it speaks to the blood of Christ, speaking a better word than the blood of Abel, Abraham, Moses, Isaac.

01:00:14

Anybody saved in the Old Testament was a part of the church through their federal head. Christ.

01:00:20

Christ. Yeah. Christ. Before Christ was even born. There's no other name. There's no other name under the, under the heavens.

01:00:28

Amen. No other name. If anyone is to be saved, they are saved through Christ. In order for Christianity to be true,

01:00:34

Christianity has to be owed. The same way that Abraham is saved is the same way we are saved.

01:00:40

Listen. By grace through faith in Jesus Christ. There was a point in time that the lamb had to be born and die.

01:00:47

That this had to happen in time at some place. Right. But it didn't happen right after the fall of Adam.

01:00:52

It happened several years after 2000 years ago for us. Right. All those saved before the cross were saved in the same exact means that the

01:01:01

New Testament post -cross church is saved. And that is through faith in the federal head,

01:01:07

Christ Jesus. Who cuts a covenant in time there through his life, death, burial, and resurrection.

01:01:13

And the people prior to that covenant being cut are credited with that same righteousness of her federal head.

01:01:19

Credited. On credit. Yep. Absolutely. It's just simple enough like that.

01:01:26

And so, like, I don't know what else to say. Because, in fact, let me go to chapter 26 of the tabular comparison real fast between 1689 and just see what.

01:01:36

Will you send me that link too? I forgot it. I've sent it to you so many times, guys. You sent it, but I haven't figured out how to save it.

01:01:43

Y 'all are crazy. This is the best website ever. Look at this. So there's not a difference between the

01:01:54

West Minister, the Savoy, or the 1689 in acknowledging this. So they, the West Minister, I'm going to just say it upright.

01:02:00

The 1689 has the correct view of the church here. And so does the Savoy. And so does the West Minister.

01:02:06

Yet they're being inconsistent in their own confession. The 1689 is holding that all the elect are in the church.

01:02:16

All the elect are a part of the covenant of grace. Period. Like, I don't know.

01:02:24

Like, is there anything else that needs to be said on this? Not that they were saved by the old covenants and the old covenant of works.

01:02:32

They were saved under it, but not by it. They were saved by, what is the substance?

01:02:38

Covenant of grace. And who did you say, Brayden? Christ. Christ. Now, to be fair, they believe that you can be in the covenant and not be of the covenant.

01:02:51

So they believe that you can be in the covenant, participate in the covenant, and not be born again.

01:02:59

And then, again, that's where we would say, you know, you quoted the verse earlier from Romans 8,

01:03:06

I think it's verse 9. If you do not have the spirit of Christ, you have no part in Christ.

01:03:15

That's right. That's right. And listen, we would say the exact same thing for the church. You cannot be a part of the invisible body of Christ without being born again and having faith in Christ.

01:03:27

You just can't be. Like, why would we be consistent? And I understand that they would say, well, the visible body is made of mothers and children, right?

01:03:37

Sure. That's true. But we're talking about the invisible, all those that are actually saved.

01:03:43

And they're saying it's only the elect, prior to Christ, post Christ, prior cross, post cross.

01:03:49

Why aren't we being consistent in our theology and saying that's the exact same language we should be using with the covenant? Yeah. I don't know.

01:03:57

It blows my mind sometimes. So, I'm going to copy this and I'll put it in the comments for everybody that's watching on YouTube.

01:04:09

And I'll try to put it on Facebook as well, because I think it's important. But we'll come back to that. We're back on that now.

01:04:20

You want me to hit play? Hit play. When I was a cradle Baptist.

01:04:26

Second, the covenant of grace and new covenant involves the creation of a constituted people. Theologians often use the language of administration, which means more than getting thing

01:04:35

A to individual B. Like, I administer lotion to my daughter's knee. We use the word administer in the

01:04:42

English language in that sense. But we use it in another sense as well, and that other sense is more faithful to the covenant administration idea.

01:04:49

This covenant administration is more like the Washington or Jefferson administration. The Washington or Jefferson administration refers to an entity, a people, an organization, or a corporate reality.

01:05:00

You can be a member of such an administration or not a member of such an administration. Covenant membership implies that a covenant is more than a promise to an individual.

01:05:10

It is an administration, an organization, or a league, like Little League. Membership in an administration involves rights and responsibility, and none of that comes through when we conceive of a covenant as a mere promise from God to an individual.

01:05:23

Can we pause that real quick? So typically, and I don't agree with him here.

01:05:30

I mean, typically when you talk about an administration, you're talking about a way in which

01:05:35

God administers grace upon his people. Another word might be dispense, dispense grace.

01:05:43

So you have the word dispensation. You have a word administration. That's why they would say that. Melissa's getting ready to say amen here in a moment.

01:05:50

I know, right. Melissa's going to be a Reformed Baptist here in a little bit. So that word dispensation, that God dispenses his grace on a certain particular people at a different time, that's where he's going with that.

01:06:06

But he's defining it completely different, not in the way that God administers grace.

01:06:14

So yes, there's grace administered to people in the Old Testament. What does that say?

01:06:22

Eric is just dropping some more good stuff. Absolutely. Eric, brother, I've been saying this for a while.

01:06:27

We need to have you on here. Yeah. Come on, bro. Yeah, what's up, man?

01:06:34

You can't hang out with us? Yeah, no, 100 % credo, yes.

01:06:41

But we just need to work on your covenant theology, Melissa. You could be 100 % confessional. It'd be a lot cooler too.

01:06:47

That's right. You can be credo, credo, covenantal, confessional,

01:06:53

Calvinistic. And cigars. Cessationist, creationist.

01:06:58

We'll just throw all the C words in there. Christocentric. Yeah, yeah, it's all good.

01:07:05

Yeah. All right, let's hit it. Wait, do you want to go ahead and fast forward to the questions?

01:07:14

I mean, I think we really have pinpointed his opening statement. I think we've nailed down his opening statement, right?

01:07:21

Let's get some of the questions. We'll try to end it at 1 .30.

01:07:26

Okay, one hour, 16 minutes, and 20 seconds. Just wait one second.

01:07:33

Trying, trying, trying. Get them little hands to working.

01:07:40

I'm trying. Those are big buttons he's got to push.

01:07:45

What is that? Oh, sorry. That's a picture of us beating a dead horse. My fault. Oh, yeah, yeah. Sorry, Jason.

01:07:55

That's a good time to chime in on Jason not representing as well. Oh, yeah, man.

01:08:02

I'll stay silent for now. But if y 'all watch Jason's videos, he did not represent what we said.

01:08:10

You want to bring that up at the end or what? Yeah, we'll just keep going right here. What minute mark am

01:08:16

I doing? 1 .16 .20. 1 .16 .20. I'm fine with 1 .16.

01:08:26

All right. Yeah. All right. Wix gives you the power of AI to build the website you need.

01:08:36

Here we go. Mark to the base. Business functionality. Oh, guys, we got a lot to ask you to build the website.

01:08:44

You I'll get through it real fast for us. So you guys don't have to listen. Take the punishment for us.

01:08:50

Are you taking the wrath of the commercials for us? I did. Y 'all are welcome. Taking one for the team.

01:08:58

Let me just do another demonstration of this ad here for us. How they dispense the ads on us.

01:09:09

That's right. Look at Dr. White. That's kind of like you,

01:09:17

Jeff. Gotcha. Gotcha, Jared.

01:09:28

Should have been a Baptist. We need a new tech boy.

01:09:35

Get out of here, Melissa. No, they don't. That is for sure. They got Braden Patterson.

01:09:42

You can't ask for that. I'll start in Hebrews.

01:09:49

I think that would be distracting personally. But anyways, go ahead. You got all those lights back there. I want to talk about.

01:09:55

You know it. I want to talk about more than Hebrews 8 at some point, but I'll start with Hebrews. Of course he does. Do you agree that the central apologetic argument in Hebrews is don't go back to the

01:10:05

Old Covenant because there's nothing there to go back to? There's nothing there to go back to because it has been fulfilled in the incarnate

01:10:13

Son of God, who then by one sacrifice perfects those who are united with him. Yeah.

01:10:19

So it's a full argument starting all the way back in chapter one. Yeah, man. Yeah. But you said it.

01:10:25

You said it before. I've heard you said it in your opening that kind of the central thrust is don't go back because there's nothing there to go back to.

01:10:30

It's like it's a collapsing house. It's not going to. There's nothing there. Right. It's like the old, the earthly tabernacle pointed toward the heavenly tabernacle, which he has now gone through and is seated at the right hand of the

01:10:41

Father and all the rest of that stuff. And would it then? I just want to say amen. A lot of people miss that.

01:10:47

Amen. Amen. The bitterness of the

01:10:52

New Covenant is that it will remain. That's one of the aspects of the

01:10:57

New Covenant. That's not all. It's not just that it will remain. It's who it's made in.

01:11:03

Amen. What it accomplishes and the perfection of that accomplishment. Okay. Could we could we give it that the

01:11:10

New Covenant remains like pride of place? Could it be kind of like could it be like the central argument is the old will not remain.

01:11:17

And the big focus of the betterness of the new is that it will remain. Could it? It doesn't have to be the soul betterness.

01:11:22

But that's not even what the emphasis, for example, and right before he says the old obsolete about to pass away.

01:11:29

What's his emphasis? His emphasis is the covenant results in the writing of God's law upon the heart.

01:11:36

It internalizes that. That's the language of the Old Testament. Circumcised your hearts. The Old Covenant didn't bring that about for everybody in it.

01:11:45

The New Covenant does. That's its supremacy and its betterness. So what

01:11:50

Dr. White don't understand right here is that he's agreeing with us concerning that, you know, was talking about earlier about how that covenant has ended.

01:12:00

What he just said there was 1989 federalism. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like he right there.

01:12:06

Dr. White was being a federalist and he doesn't even know it. You talking about.

01:12:12

So again, you go to Hebrews eight. It says this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel. Right. And this is to the church to all the both

01:12:19

Jew and Gentile. Those in Christ. Romans two says the Gentiles who were not given these laws, they do by nature.

01:12:25

What those laws demanded. And then right after that, it says those who have been circumcised of the heart.

01:12:32

Why do you think it's talking about that? Because it's saying that the law of God was written on those Gentiles hearts. What he is arguing and says those who have been circumcised of the heart, they are

01:12:42

Jews. So the house of Israel. Right. So exactly what

01:12:47

James just said is a spot on. The covenant of grace is full of regenerate circumcised of the heart.

01:12:54

Believers in Christ. Jesus circumcision of the heart. That is regeneration.

01:13:00

That's right. That is Ezekiel 36, 25 to 27. Yeah. Now, let me ask you something,

01:13:09

Tom. Is there a point because I'm trying to figure out. Like, are we going to answer the questions or what's going on here?

01:13:17

So, yeah, I mean, so this is as far as I go. This is just where he started questioning him and he was going to go through it.

01:13:23

So this is as far as I didn't know how far you guys wanted to go. So where do you want to go,

01:13:28

Jeff? You got a time marker? I don't know. Like I saw a lot of things in his opening statement that I wanted to point out.

01:13:36

However, I can't remember everything now. You see, my problem is that as I'm working, I'm trying to listen and write things down.

01:13:44

James handles him. The way he just did here, James handles him throughout the whole thing.

01:13:50

I mean, look at his face. He's nervous. And James is like, say something.

01:13:56

Hello. Yeah, you know what? Yeah. We're at 10.

01:14:02

So I would like to get to him asking James questions. Do you have that? Because I would like to answer because I know he's going to be coming at it.

01:14:11

That's one of them right there. This again? No, no. So I know that he mentions,

01:14:19

I can't remember if it's his opening statement or what, but he mentions the, yeah, okay.

01:14:25

I can't remember the minute, Mark, but he talks about how his view works better with Hebrews simply because Hebrews has warning passages of being able to lose your position in the covenant.

01:14:40

So he's not saying that you can lose your salvation. So he's looking at the Hebrew warning passages that you can lose your position in the covenant.

01:14:51

And then he also throws in that passage from Peter where it talks about the master who bought you.

01:14:57

And so he does that in there. And then there's a couple of passages in Hebrews that he speaks about about it.

01:15:02

And then someone else talks about, I think it's in John 15 where it talks about the pruning of the vine, how you can be removed, your vine can be removed or whatever.

01:15:17

And so I was really wanting to hit on that to show that that's not what he's talking about.

01:15:24

We would say that those are professing believers, but never in the new covenant. Right. Well, so specifically in John, I think, you know, so Jesus is there, right?

01:15:36

He's there at the house of Israel and he's letting them know that a new covenant is coming.

01:15:43

Right. And them as being physical descendants of Abraham, in some sense, like they are, they were a part of that new, that old covenant.

01:15:54

The pruning takes place as this new covenant is taking place. And only those that are connected to the vine, the new

01:16:02

Jesus Christ, the new covenant are going to be a part of it. And so it has absolutely nothing to do with with those in the new covenant being taken out of the new covenant.

01:16:14

It's speaking about those that were a part of the physical descendants of Abraham. Right. They are are not necessarily taken out of the old covenant, but they have no part in the new covenant because they're not connected to the vine, which is

01:16:30

Christ. That's right. So, so just to answer Dan, let me put it up there. Yes.

01:16:36

Just send me a friend request. I don't have mine as like a, I don't consider myself a public figure.

01:16:41

So there is no follow button on my Facebook page. So, but yeah, watch your purse when you follow that guy.

01:16:50

He's got little hands. You can't even, can't even feel that it goes in. It's not good. It's not good.

01:16:55

Yeah. You have to watch my, my testimony videos, what Michelle just said. So thank you, Michelle. So Matthew 21,

01:17:02

I already brought this up earlier. It comes right after what text? The vine dresser. And he says, I'm taking this kingdom from this nation and giving it to another.

01:17:10

Well, that will be producing fruit of it. So what is that nation he's talking about? The ethnic people of Israel. Is he saying

01:17:16

I'm going to give this to the ethnic people of Israel? No, he's saying I'm giving it to the elect. This, this is going to be given to the people of God.

01:17:22

All those that are a part of the federal head, I'm giving it to you. And the reason that Christ is speaking like this is he's speaking to the

01:17:28

Pharisees. He's speaking in the front of Jews right there. And he's saying that you are a people who have been not bearing fruit.

01:17:36

You've been killing the prophets. You've killed the son. You're going to kill the son. It's being taken from you and being given to another people.

01:17:43

The way that God has brought about the Christ was through natural means, which was including a nation that was often rebellious and hateful and spiteful and evil towards him.

01:17:56

So when Christ is right, which absolutely right. There's there's aspects of grace in this that God kept on being.

01:18:04

He kept on bringing them back into the land. He kept on being kind to them. And why? Why? Listen, so, so God promises to Adam and Eve, they're in the garden.

01:18:16

I'm going to, there's going to be a seed that crushes the head of the serpent. Noah in Genesis six, it says that there was no one righteous on the earth.

01:18:23

They're all their thoughts were continually evil before him. God could have wiped out everyone, including

01:18:30

Noah and would have been completely just in doing so. However, what would have been done in the process? There would have been no promise seed left.

01:18:37

Right. God was faithful by preserving and reckoning

01:18:42

Noah with righteousness, bringing Noah and his family, the covenant, Noah being all the seven other people onto the ark.

01:18:48

And that's how the line of the seed kept on going. So then you think about it. Okay. What about Abraham?

01:18:54

Abraham was a wicked man. Yeah. So he basically treated his wife as a prostitute.

01:19:00

He should have died. Yeah. God gave him grace. He found favor in the eyes of the Lord. Unfaithful all the time.

01:19:08

I just preached in the book of Daniel and there's like four faithful men in all of Israel at this time. Yeah. All of Israel and they're all into slavery and all into captivity.

01:19:17

And if you were the devil, you would be rejoicing like, man, we got him. There's no seed coming in this people.

01:19:23

But God preserved as a people by showing them this common grace to the people that continually rejected him.

01:19:33

Hold on. What you just said goes back to Genesis 3 15. I will put enmity between your seed and his seed and hers.

01:19:41

So then what does Matthew 21 say? These Jews who I've been calling to be gathered under my wings continually, they have hated me and rejected me and they've killed the son that has been set to them.

01:19:53

The kingdom's going to another people. That's right. So Ephesians chapter 2 verse 15.

01:20:00

By abolishing in his flesh the enmity, the law, the commandments contained in the ordinance, so that he himself might create the two into one new man making peace and might reconcile them both into one body to God through the cross, having put in himself put to death the enmity.

01:20:21

That's right. Yeah. Also in Hebrews. So so who was Paul writing to in Hebrews?

01:20:30

Wait, I'm sorry. Say it again. Who was Paul writing to in the Hebrews and Hebrews? Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:20:36

He was he was writing to Jews that have converted to Christianity. All right. So who was Peter writing to in first Peter?

01:20:44

So generous. Yeah, but but specifically he speaks to the Jews. OK, so so in both cases, all three cases.

01:20:55

So you got John 15, Jesus speaking to the Jews, Hebrews, Jesus speaking to the Jews. And then

01:21:00

Peter, the master that bought that might be second Peter. He is speaking to the

01:21:06

Jews, right? Who have who who who by profession are going after Christ, but their actions, they're still looking back to temple.

01:21:16

That's right. They're still looking back to the old covenant, showing themselves that they've never really entered into the new covenant.

01:21:25

Right. Like it's not that in the text that it's talking about new covenant.

01:21:31

Regenerate members are being taken out of the new covenant.

01:21:37

But it's by with profession of mouth, because if you just look at, you know, a

01:21:43

Romans chapter, Romans chapter 10 verses nine through 10. So there's a lot of people.

01:21:48

They don't catch what's going on here. So let me read that real quick. Romans chapter 10 verses nine and 10.

01:21:57

It says, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. And so there's a second second thing that has to happen.

01:22:06

Believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead. You will be saved. Or with the heart, one believes and is justified.

01:22:13

And with the mouth, one confess and is saved. There's like I know a ton of people who have professed faith in Jesus Christ and have walked away from the faith.

01:22:26

Right. But what this is saying is, is if you believe in your heart that God actually raised this

01:22:33

Jesus from the dead, you will be saved. It's not about just professing faith.

01:22:39

Right. It's about actually believing something that is scientifically impossible in our day.

01:22:45

Right. That God himself took on flesh, became flesh, lived the perfect life, died a sinner's death, was buried and on the third day rose again.

01:22:56

Right. If you will actually believe that that that belief has to be given to you.

01:23:01

That's what regeneration is. Once you believe that you have the Holy Spirit, you're in the new covenant.

01:23:07

Someone who is in the new covenant cannot be taken out of the new covenant because they have eternal life. However, you can profess with your mouth that Jesus is

01:23:15

Lord and not believe that. That's right. And that's what we see taking place in John.

01:23:21

Well, not necessarily John 15. So he's necessarily speaking of those in the old covenant that do not go into the new covenant.

01:23:28

They've been pruned, but particularly speaking in Hebrews, they were professing with their mouth that Jesus is

01:23:36

Lord, but they were looking back at the temple. That's right. Right. If they truly believe that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, they would not be looking back at the temple.

01:23:46

So on and so forth concerning the master who bought them. And one of the questions. Go ahead. I was just going to say that the context of Hebrews really elaborates that whole point.

01:23:56

And we can speak as this Jeff and I with being pastors. Right. And knowing people who we've seen have a profession of faith, maybe even we've given the sign of baptism to.

01:24:05

And then years later they go and they fall away. Right. Right. We don't know all things.

01:24:12

We go off of professions. Right. The book of Hebrews is speaking to a people who have had a profession and through years of either struggling, having

01:24:22

Judaizers try to talk to him, and so on and so forth, they're starting to be like, man, my family is back there.

01:24:28

I could go if I join back in this old cup and I could go back to my family. Like that's a tempting thing.

01:24:33

If you've suffered the sword of Christ. And Paul in this is saying, if you do that, you're trampling upon the blood of Christ.

01:24:41

What you have. And that's what he's that's all of chapter all of chapter 10, 11, because he's comparing what we have today compared to the saints of old.

01:24:49

And then 12 and 13, he's saying you have something that is so much better, though you might not see it, though it might not be a tangible kingdom.

01:24:58

You are in something that is so much better because you're with Christ. And that's the whole point of this.

01:25:04

In fact, I would look at Jared Longshore and say, if he if he's intertwining these these these texts of Hebrews and saying this is only covenant language, that it's not talking about the church as being the elect, like we would read from the confessions.

01:25:17

He is misreading this text completely. This is the covenant of grace is intertwined identically with the church.

01:25:26

And so all these passages in here that are talking about people trampling upon the blood of Christ or falling from grace or so on and so forth.

01:25:33

It is talking about those that have had a public professional faith. And Paul is begging them, don't go back on your public profession of faith.

01:25:41

So one of the questions that Ben had. Yeah, let me let me pull it up. Right. Yeah. So so one of the questions he was asked, he believed he would baptize his unbelieving wife.

01:25:53

And he said, yes. He goes, why would he do that? The only thing I could think of the reason where he's going with that in First Corinthians, chapter seven, verse 14, it says for the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband, which is a wrong interpretation of that.

01:26:09

He's basically saying that that because their spouse is a believer, that they're going to be set apart in some way at the holiness, that more than likely that this person be.

01:26:20

And they would use that exact same argument for the children, that if you have two believing parents, that they are now qualified to be under the covenant of grace because of their parents.

01:26:32

But this is not this is not. I think there's some stipulations there. So like if an unbelieving wife, like like let's say if Jarrett was to be agreed to baptize someone's wife.

01:26:43

Right. That was an unbeliever or a husband. And Jarrett says, are you willing to be baptized?

01:26:50

And they said, yes, I am willing. He would baptize them. But if Jarrett was to say or Doug or any of them was to actually say, do you believe in Jesus Christ?

01:27:00

And they say, no, but I'm willing to be baptized. I don't I don't necessarily

01:27:05

I don't think that they would actually perform the baptism. At least I would hope not. I thought

01:27:10

I heard them say that they would not if they profess no faith. But if they didn't profess at all, if they said nothing at all, they would.

01:27:20

And again, you're baptizing. You're giving somebody the sign of the covenant before on a presumption that they will come to Christ later down the road.

01:27:29

Does this does this also span? Does that answer of saying, yes, I would baptize an unbelieving wife.

01:27:35

Does that span from that view of federal vision with them that the that that. Does that come from federal vision with Doug Wilson?

01:27:44

Federal budget is more of a sanctification thing. I know I don't think I don't I don't.

01:27:50

Yes, I would say that sanctifying in there is not in the same way that I would

01:27:57

I would take how we are being sanctified in Christ. No, they would they would use it as set apart that they're going to be set apart.

01:28:05

And so so how how how did the how how did God's people Israel, how were they set apart in a way?

01:28:12

Well, they had the oracles of God, right?

01:28:20

Because he's a believer, he's going to be raising them up in the nurture of the Lord, which whether you're Presbyterian, Baptist or if you're assemblies of God, whatever it is that you dangle with.

01:28:30

Right. You need to be having these gospel conversations. You need to be reading the Bible, having family worship, so on and so forth.

01:28:37

Right. And in one sense, you're being set apart. Right. Absolutely. What a huge bit. I mean, if you're raising up your children and you're evangelizing and you're reading the

01:28:45

Bible, I mean, golly. I mean, just imagine you're you're sharing the gospel with your children every day.

01:28:51

There's just the power of God into salvation. They didn't have that. Yes. Yes.

01:28:58

So they're being sanctified is not the same as what we're talking about as we're being sanctified, being conformed to the image of Christ.

01:29:07

Yeah. Right. They're being sanctified as being set apart, being able to be to be under something so glorious.

01:29:16

However, that also would be condemnation to them.

01:29:23

Boy, yeah. You know, at the judgment, having all that light and never coming to repentance.

01:29:30

That's right. So which person? This is a perfect segue into this. So Mr. Hudson asked a question earlier.

01:29:35

He said, thank you, pastors. Looking forward to the discussion. You might have to sift through it to be able to pull it up.

01:29:41

I don't let me get to it. So looking forward to the discussion question, New Testament slash covenant parable.

01:29:48

Was the prodigal son a participant in the covenant prior to his returning to the father?

01:29:55

It's the reason I say this is a perfect, perfect segue. Is that in that story, the brother that never left the house when the brother returns and is welcoming and given a feast and given the father's robe.

01:30:07

The son is bitter and doesn't go into the house. He had more light and yet rejected the blessings.

01:30:16

Right. We have to also understand that it was a parable. He was talking to the Pharisees. I'm trying to fix it.

01:30:25

Go ahead. Keep on going. So the brother represented the Pharisees and everything. And they were, matter of fact, and if you literally,

01:30:33

I don't know if you've ever heard John MacArthur's sermon on that, but he talks about the brother who was jealous.

01:30:39

Why are you giving it to this people? These Gentiles, that's the representative of us being saved.

01:30:47

The repentant sinner, the people who didn't deserve it, the same way the prodigal didn't deserve it. He squandered everything and you're going to dispense grace on him and not,

01:30:56

I said dispense again, administer grace on him. Sorry. I mean, she...

01:31:03

Ruined it, Tom. Ruined it. You were going to religious places, you ruined it all. Yeah, I'm sorry. You squandered the inheritance.

01:31:10

I squandered the inheritance. So yeah, so there's grace on the son who didn't deserve it.

01:31:16

And the Jew is looking at him, the self -righteous Jew is looking at him.

01:31:21

What are you doing giving it to that guy? I want it all. And so that's where that's going.

01:31:28

That's right. The kingdom is being taken and given to another nation producing fruit of it.

01:31:35

Exactly right. That's the parable. Amen. Well, we're at hour 31.

01:31:43

Y 'all feel like we did justice? Yeah, talk about Jason now. Yeah. Okay.

01:31:49

So Jason Brita, if y 'all remember last week, he was commenting back and forth with us.

01:31:57

We was having, you know, and I thought that was really cool, right? We was talking about him like, like if Jarrett would have got on here tonight, we would have, you know, had some interaction with him.

01:32:06

I mean, we don't we don't mind. We like that kind of stuff. And if he really wanted to, it would have sent him a link to get on here, as we would have

01:32:14

Jason Brita last week. Right. If you've been following us for a while now, we've done stuff like that.

01:32:19

Right. If someone has a problem, they really want to get on here and discuss it. We'll send them a link. And, you know, because that open air theology, anything can happen.

01:32:27

Right. That's just how we wrote. So he ended up doing a video on us calling him to repentance.

01:32:39

And which we did. Yeah. Which we did right to him. Like, this is not something that we was hiding behind anyone's back or anything.

01:32:48

And so he misrepresented. So first he said that that I mentioned that because because his confession had some, you know, because for the majority of the time we were looking at the confession that he sent us on salvation.

01:33:04

And so we were looking at that and picking it apart. And in this video, he says, well, it's it words things in a way in which he wouldn't have worded it.

01:33:15

But he said he said, but Jeff Rice said the same thing concerning the 1689. And I have said that.

01:33:23

However, I would not say that concerning an important, an important doctrine such as salvation, an essential, important doctrine concerning salvation.

01:33:35

But what the 1689 says about salvation, I 100 percent agree with every word.

01:33:41

Now, speaking about things that I would were different. Let's just talk about like where it says that the pope is the

01:33:47

Antichrist. I would work that different and say the pope is an

01:33:53

Antichrist, not the definite article Antichrist. Right.

01:33:58

Which has which is not an essential doctrine to the Christian faith. Right. So something like that,

01:34:05

I would rework not the like.

01:34:10

I wouldn't reword anything concerning the Trinity. I wouldn't word anything concerning justification. I wouldn't word anything concerning sanctification.

01:34:17

Right. Like these essential doctrines. And so so he misrepresented what I was saying there.

01:34:23

And also, he said that our attack on him had to do with the just what his view of justification.

01:34:29

Now, if you go back and you watch our video from last week, it wasn't about justification.

01:34:35

It was about the conflation of justification and sanctification and glorification together, because they actually believe if you have been justified, you will in your own walk be sanctified.

01:34:52

So your sanctification is by you walking and working.

01:34:58

By you walking and working. And that's where we came down and told him that's bootstrap theology, that's pat yourself on the back theology.

01:35:07

And then Braden mentioned how that was. Would you.

01:35:15

I can't think of the Judaizers. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

01:35:20

Yeah. Relationship. Oh, who has bewitched you? Who do you think that you are being?

01:35:26

Does it say that you are being sanctified in the spirit or. Yeah, because in Galatians, the

01:35:33

Judaizers were not saying that they didn't come to Jesus by faith. Yeah.

01:35:39

Oh, OK. Faith. OK. However, you also have to be circumcised and become a

01:35:45

Jew going back real fast. Yeah. And so you add anything to those to sanctification,

01:35:51

I mean, salvation and sanctification. My dear friend, you are a Judaizer. So let's pull that back up real quick.

01:35:57

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So real quickly, I'll read Galatians before I zoom in on this. Galatians three. Oh, foolish

01:36:02

Galatians, who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.

01:36:08

Let me ask you only this. Did you. So Paul Paul saying, let me boil down the entire part of my letter and just ask you this.

01:36:16

Right. Did you receive the spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish?

01:36:25

Having begin by the spirit, begun by the spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

01:36:31

Wow. Now, with that in mind, let's go and read Rosendale Network of Churches.

01:36:37

I'm not on the screen where I can see you guys. Is that visible for you guys? Well, it's very small, but go ahead and read it, though.

01:36:45

I personally cannot read it. I wonder if I do something like that. Yeah, but you have to move with it.

01:36:53

But it's fine. It looks better. Does that look better somewhat? I don't know.

01:37:00

All right. Let me read it for us. I'll read the whole portion. So this is this is this is a part of a network that Jason's a part of.

01:37:08

And again, this is this is a pretty court. This is salvation. This is a pretty court doctrine.

01:37:14

Right. Or I would hope it's central. A central salvation is a free gift of God's grace based on the work of Jesus Christ.

01:37:22

The shedding of his blood on the cross. His resurrection is present in a necessary ministry. Could you cut that down to normal and not 1 .5?

01:37:37

You're a fast reader. Who receive God's.

01:37:45

Brain, we just we barely graduated high school. Oh, my goodness.

01:37:56

All right. Oh, those who receive God's gift of salvation by faith become children of God, justified in their relationship to God, sanctified in their walk and work and secure in an ongoing faith, expressed and fostered by obedience to Christ.

01:38:15

It's justification. Yeah. And listen, this again, what is this?

01:38:20

We're saying that they're conflating sanctification and justification. It's in his own confession. It's here in salvation.

01:38:26

Right after talking about what we would talk about is sanctification, ongoing faith. Right. It's saying that it's expressed and fostered by obedience.

01:38:34

Justification is extended to all people in regards to the endemic guilt and by personal repentance and faith in Jesus Christ in regard to personal guilt.

01:38:45

You guys are misrepresenting him again. The problem is you cannot conflate justification, sanctification and glorification together.

01:38:55

So the way that they would put it is saved, being saved to be saved.

01:39:00

Yeah. Like those three, although are together, they're separate.

01:39:06

Right. My sanctification is not my justification. Right. Although the moment

01:39:11

I was justified, if I would have died at that moment, I would have been fully sanctified and would be glorified.

01:39:19

And that comes, a lot of that comes to from that video that we are discussing and pointing out. Right. Which I, that guy was a heretic through and through with that little.

01:39:28

Yeah. Gay beard. Listen, it was bad. If you haven't seen that show, go watch that show.

01:39:34

It was real bad. But if you want to say that there's, which there is, there's Bible verses that say you have been saved, that you are being saved and you will be saved.

01:39:41

Sure. Yeah. What should be the Christian's response? I was saved by Christ.

01:39:48

I'm being saved by Christ. I will be saved by Christ. Not, I was saved by Christ.

01:39:54

I'm being saved by myself and I'll be saved by my endurance in the future. That's garbage. That's the same thing the

01:40:00

Judaizers were saying. That's where this comes from. And really it's what it is. Sanctification and justification. It's being saved from the penalty of sin.

01:40:08

It's being saved from the power of sin. And it's being saved from the very presence of sin and glorification.

01:40:15

That's right. Yeah. Because once we're glorified, once we resurrect from the grave, there are, the way that our flesh fights against our spirit will be no more.

01:40:25

That's right. We will be perfected in a way. In real time.

01:40:31

Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what we were saying. If you go and listen to the video that he did, he totally misrepresented us in that.

01:40:41

And then what we said about our confession versus his. We need to get Jason on here. Send him a message.

01:40:48

Hit him up. Well, I will if y 'all want me to.

01:40:57

Well, I guess that's all we got for the night. Any last words? Can we get a picture of us beating a dead horse again?

01:41:06

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I told you to put one with his face on it. I can't do it that quick.

01:41:11

Give me, give me, give me 10 minutes. I get that done. No, it was a great show again.

01:41:18

You guys. Good stuff. Hey, real quick. We need to know what you guys want us to do.

01:41:25

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Go ahead. I had something pop in my mind. I'll write it down.

01:41:30

Go ahead. Oh, okay. We need to know. We need to know what kind of topics would you guys like us to discuss on here?

01:41:39

We want to keep it fun. You guys know how we are. We rag on Braden a lot because he's got teeny tiny hands, but we can't just do a show on tiny hands.

01:41:49

You can. It's just short. It's small shows. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's

01:41:56

TikTok videos. Yeah. And we could do, we could do. Gay beard shows. This is one hand.

01:42:02

So. This is two hands. Tell us, tell us what you guys want us to discuss. Yeah. If there's a topic out there that you want us to, to, to destroy, right.

01:42:12

If there's people you want us to, to beat up. Yeah. Bring it.

01:42:22

You're welcome, Tom. I want to ask everyone to be in prayer for our church.

01:42:29

There's a, an opportunity, maybe that, that, that we're looking to get in a new building.

01:42:36

I'm talking to the church that's receiving the deed. Really, really beautiful church over here where I live.

01:42:45

And it was planted in 1969. And it, and it just shut down June 30th.

01:42:53

It went from 200 people to seven people. And these seven people were unwilling to get out and reach the community.

01:43:03

And as y 'all know, we are active in our community, reaching out, preaching the gospel.

01:43:10

So on and so forth. And there's a really good chance that we could have an opportunity to get this beautiful building.

01:43:18

And if you know where my church is, it's kind of like in a hole in a wall. Like you're know, someone said, we're going to this karaoke spot.

01:43:26

It's a hole in a wall. Like this really is a hole. It's right beside a bar that has a karaoke.

01:43:31

Okay. So we're right beside a tattoo parlor and we're right beside a bar.

01:43:37

And every Sunday morning, I got to go into the church and try to get the smell of weed out of the church because people have been up partying all night.

01:43:45

And the smell has absorbed into my church. And it would be great to have a building where we wouldn't have to.

01:43:53

And I had to get out there and sweep the parking lots, clean up chicken bones, cigarette butts, beer cans.

01:44:02

Like it's just a mess every Lord's Day morning. I'm having to get out there and clean. And it would just be a blessing to not have to do that stuff and to have something that actually looked like a church.

01:44:13

Right. And it is a beautiful church, too. It's a beautiful church. And if y 'all could be praying that the

01:44:18

Lord would bless us with such a blessing, I would really appreciate it. Yeah. Prayer.

01:44:26

So I will say, Troy said more Baptist covenant theology. Melissa asked for a show about Mormons and how to reach them.

01:44:35

We can do all those things. Absolutely. Maybe next week we can do something on Mormons. Maybe not what

01:44:40

I was wanting to talk about today, but. Yeah. Testosterone, wouldn't it?

01:44:53

Do you want to talk about testosterone or something like that? I'm going to throw up. I'm going to throw up.

01:45:01

You don't make me throw up. That's what we're talking about right now. Don't explain it, Tom. No. So you had two ex -Mormons, you see.

01:45:15

Look, we were wanting to do a show on this really bad scandal that's just come out about a really well -known ex -Mormon.

01:45:25

This ex -Mormon ministry that has just completely invalidated itself from a lot of things.

01:45:34

Being in ministry and most likely even being considered brothers in Christ. It's bad, bad, bad, bad stuff.

01:45:41

They're not brothers in Christ. They're sisters in Christ. They're not even sisters in Christ. They're just sisters.

01:45:46

No. Yeah. They're just gay. They identify as sisters. Yeah. It's gross.

01:45:52

It's not good. It's not good. It wouldn't have been a good show. It would have been a great show, dude.

01:45:58

Jeff would have been throwing up. He would have thrown up. Listen, I have such a weak stomach.

01:46:04

Like, my wife scratches her finger and shows me, and I get a pain in my butt. Like, a literal pain in my butt.

01:46:11

And I start gagging. That's kind of what the show is going to be about. Changing diapers.

01:46:16

What are you talking about right now, dog? I'm just saying. Like, even changing diapers. Like, I've thrown up on my kids by changing their diapers.

01:46:25

Do you have a pain in your butt when you change your diapers? No, like the butt cheek. Like, no, no. If I see someone get cut, or if I see,

01:46:33

I mean, like, I can watch UFC all day long. Are you hearing? He's getting a pain in his butt. What butt cheek gets a nod on it?

01:46:40

Is it your left one or your right one, Jeff? Please tell. It's usually my right. It's like how people can be like, oh yeah, it's going to rain.

01:46:50

I can feel it in my bones. This is going to be real gay. I can feel it in my butt. Like, we can be watching a

01:47:04

TV show and someone gets impaled or whatever. Like, I can't even look at it. Like, I get sick.

01:47:10

I got a really weak stomach, and I do get a pain in my butt. I don't know what it is. Like, right now, Braden's a pain in my butt.

01:47:18

Jeff's mode. That's the ministry. Because it was Adam's Road that was doing all the gay stuff.

01:47:26

Well, it is what it is. I can't. I got a weak stomach. I can't handle it.

01:47:32

Way too much information. Braden's going to have to go on the Reformed Ex Mormon to talk about that one.

01:47:37

Yeah, it's bad stuff. Please do subscribe to this Open Air Theology page.

01:47:43

Share it around with people. We really enjoy it. And if you don't, we understand. I wouldn't want to associate with me either.

01:47:52

Jeff's screaming in his chair. We know what's up. Tighten it up.

01:48:03

All right. Anyways, if you're ever in Tallahoma, come check me out. We're out of here.