Larry McLaughlin Interview

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said,.

�But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you. In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you.

By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King. Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Meeting Larry McLaughlin and the Church Background

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry. My name is Mike Abendroth. And over the last, I don�t know, nine years since we�ve been doing the show, I probably like Wednesdays the most because I get to talk to people, usually theologians on the phone or some author or something like that.

But probably ten times I�ve interviewed people in the local church here, Bethlehem Bible Church, and talked to them about ministry or maybe a trial they�ve gone through or testimony or something. So today, it�s kind of odd.

Steve Cooley is not sitting next to me, but Larry McLaughlin is. Larry, welcome to No Compromise Radio. Thank you very much. So Larry, before we get into things like cancer and how to walk through that trial, how did we meet?

How did that all work? I know you came to this church from another church. What was the driving motivation behind all that?

The driving motivation for that was I just, it was clear to me that the leadership in the church was going in a direction I didn�t want to go, take my family. They were kind of going with what was most popular, pursuing the seekers, not necessarily pursuing teaching the scriptures verse by verse.

So that was the driving motivation for coming here. I think you had emailed me too. Did you listen to the show? Is that how you first found out about us? Oh, no, no, no. I came to the first conference you had with James White.

So we were homeschooling our kids and always looking for something solid and sound to attend.

And little did you know, fast forward a few years, you would be in this very room in a discipleship class. And I try to push the guys a little bit in the class and they have to do memory verses and read and all these other things.

And so I had right behind me in this conference table, I said to people, you have to stand up to do your verses sometimes. I'm just trying to make it harder. So in life, then it's easier, right? Because if you can do a Bible verse in front of me, you can do it in front of your coworkers a lot easier.

And so what prompted you to stand up on the desk here and do those verses right on the conference table?

I believe it was you. And you said, if I asked you to stand up and do them on the table, would you? And I didn't answer.

I just stood up on the table. And I remember you had to kind of crouch down a little bit because you're tall enough that your head was going to go into the ceiling. Right.

I didn't realize some guy was taping it.

Yeah. I have pictures of that. I think in the future, I added a component and that component was everybody has to do their verses. But for instance, if you, Larry, will do the verses on top of the table for everyone else, I, since I'm in charge of the class, will credit your obedience to all the other class by the doctrine of imputation.

So then they wouldn't have to do the verses. Only the one, the federal head would have to do the verses. Oh, really? That's what you do now? And that way, everybody's rooting for the federal head for victory, right?

Cancer, Sovereignty, and Preaching the Gospel to Yourself

So it's pretty common these days. What do people in the pews want and let's kind of craft a message for them. Now let's fast forward to your situation now. And we've got plenty of time to talk about it, but how would have that worked?

Knowing what you know now, possibly having terminal cancer, certainly cancer and a couple brain surgeries to prove it. Why is it so important? Here's my question. Why is it so important to have a God-centered preaching style, not just when things are going well, but also when things are going poorly from the human perspective?

Because you need to know who God is and who you are according to what God says in order to really understand the truth. And the only place you're going to find that is scripture. And so I'm so grateful for where God has had my wife and I over the last several years in the scriptures.

I mean, we're always in the scriptures, but maybe even more so. I remember one book that you recommended and your wife also recommended was the Gospel Primer by Vincent Milton. Yeah, Milton Vincent, yeah.

Milton Vincent, sorry. No, that's okay. And so that definitely is one of the most listened to things on my phone because he, along with others, have recommended you preach the gospel to yourself every day.

And that book was phenomenal in helping me to just look at it in several different ways and just be in awe of what God has done to secure my salvation. And being there, my wife and I weren't really very rattled when we had the news and maybe to the surprise of our oncologist and our caregivers.

And so we were just very grateful. We just kind of look at each other while we both know God is sovereign and what does He have in store? We also know that in Romans it says that He makes all things work together for our good and for our salvation.

So our hope and trust is in that and we truly believe that. So how He's going to use it in our lives, the lives of our kids, friends, co-workers, family, we don't know. Right. But we know He is going to be working.

Yeah. Hopefully for their good, our good, and that's our hope and our biggest desire.

So what people can't see is Larry came in kind of with some assistance. His wife was here helping him and we had to get him seated rightly. You've got a huge scar on your head. Tell me, are those staples?

Yeah. We didn't even count them this time. This time?

I'm sorry. Well, I don't remember. I think it was 21 last time and the physical therapist came in. She goes, so how many staples do you have? And I said, I don't even know. So she counted them. This time it was only 19.

So how old are you? I just turned 62. Okay. 62. Children. You have one grandchild, right? One grandchild. She's been a wonderful visit with him this past, not this past weekend, but the weekend before.

Nice. And so you have a family and things are kind of going along with your job and you're very active here in the church with ministry. And if the doors are open here at Bethlehem Bible Church, you and your wife are usually here, whether that's prayer early on.

Sometimes you're the only two people probably at show for prayer. Once or twice. Okay. And so just, you know, things, you know, going well, and then your leg started twitching and getting hot and all this stuff.

How long was it between your leg was having problems to you were in the operating room.

For the brain cancer? So it was a week before the beginning of September. So on, on the Monday, whatever Monday that was in 2018, and I was getting surgery on the 17th of September, 2018.

All right. So right now in real time, I don't know when this will play, but in real time, this is mid November, 2019. So just over a year ago, you had the first brain surgery, brain cancer surgery, and they couldn't take it all out, right?

Because it was They actually thought they got it all out, but even, you know, when we were researching and reading on prognosis for this type of tumor, even when they get what they call a complete resection, this type of tumor, you can't get the, you know, every micron, every, every atom, every cell out of this type and the tumor is notorious for coming back.

So

I just listened to you talk some technical terms. What do you do for work?

What's your job? I work as an electrical engineer for Raytheon company. Okay. Just a small little company up the way.

When you had the first surgery diagnosis and all that stuff, did you think you'd be alive today? One year later?

I was optimistic. I thought I would make the, you know, I was hoping that I would make the statistical positive end, which is 95%. I guess the positive end is 5 Make it after five years.

Okay. And so you started to have some of the symptoms come back and went in for another surgery. Right. And so that was just within the last month, right?

Yes. So on the 16th of October, I went in for the second surgery.

Leading a Family Through Suffering

Tell me Larry, as this has been going on, how have you been trying to lead your family? Not only your wife, but your children and what kind of example do you want to set for them? What's been your strategy?

I'm sure, you know, you haven't done things perfectly, but I know you've, you've tried to do things well and have done things well. What's your strategy? So when this happens to someone else, they can kind of see the grid.

All right, this is what this man on the radio did. How should I approach it?

Pretty much what we've been doing, going to church, personal study. I used to do a lot more with the family and study, but now with everybody pretty much grown there, we don't do that as much. Hopefully they're doing that on their own.

I hope by the way we live our lives, it encourages them to do that and to pursue God on their own.

Some more than others. You know what I was after, Larry, is I was after, are there things that you haven't done? So to me, you're kind of a steady Eddie. What do you do before your cancer? You do that after your cancer.

I mean, there's not a lot of life changes in terms of you're not all of a sudden going to church and all of a sudden going to prayer meetings. You already did that. Is there something you didn't do? In other words, in front of the kids and your wife, you're not going to say things like, you know, God isn't good or I can't trust him.

You don't strike me as the kind of guy that would say that or think that. Do those thoughts go through your mind or do those words come out of your mouth?

No. I mean, I've been telling people that God is sovereign and he's been kind and gracious to us. I guess in a heightened sense over the past year, my wife and I just trying to cherish every day with one another.

I think you said something to me early on, wasn't that first month amazing? And it was. I mean, we were treating one another much more graciously than we probably did on a regular basis. I mean, you know, you still have disagreements and don't say things quite as nicely as you might have.

But we're still, you know, cherishing. We tried to cherish every day, but there's sort of an amplified sense of that when you have this type of prognosis.

So when you wake up in the morning now, what do you think when you first wake up? I know what happened when I had prostate cancer and since it was not out of the prostate, my prognosis is good. So we're talking something very minimal compared to what you have.

I woke up every day and I thought, I have cancer. And then I tried to set myself to think biblical things and align myself with the Word. So I'd sit and study.

What do you think when you wake up? Honestly, I never woke up thinking that. I guess all the time I spent, as I said in that other book, trying to discipline myself to think about, you know, how good I have it compared to what I deserve.

Because I mean, as a believer, I honestly understand I deserve hell and yet I get heaven. Christ is taking care of all that and, you know, He gives us His righteousness. That's the most incredible good news.

So I still wake up thinking those kind of thoughts. But I do try to think more like when we were going in for our treatments, we would just say, okay, what kind of fun things can we do? Well, we're already here in Boston.

Let's do something. Okay. Now, this is behind the scenes. Most of you don't know Larry, but maybe some of the church folks do. Well, the church folks do. You're, you know, forget the cancer and all that.

You're just kind of, to me, as I said before, steady Eddie, you're the engineer. What do you really do to let your hair down to go have some fun? What would fun be for you?

Well, after surgery, you know, my kids are always doing stuff. So right after surgery, my son said, oh, well, that leg's a little gimpy. Let's try Velcroing them together with either Peter, I don't know if it was Matthew that suggested it, but we measured between Matthew and Peter and myself whose legs matched up the best.

And so Peter Velcroed his leg to mine and we tried doing the three-legged race, but it needed a little more engineering work there. Oh, okay. See, this family of engineers. Peter said, you know, the weight needs to be centered on my leg.

I found that side load too much and it was a little, even a little klutzy, too klutzy. And then we played Frisbee golf and they had to wheel me around the yard in the wheelchair. So my leg gave out after like two holes.

Well, I don't know if you're going to live to be, live another day or two more decades, but I'm sure the kids will remember that time wheeling around dad.

And my daughter Esther has been trying to get me to tell all my stories. When my kids were little, we used to, I used to tell stories and I spent a lot of time in the ER as a kid. And so I have all these stories about getting hurt.

Just getting, oh, okay. What was the worst thing that ever happened to you? Um, probably, I had no broken bones, but I had many visits that were, um, well, I did break my nose once and I broke my nose.

I was playing basketball and I got hit with a hockey puck. So this is the story behind that. And so my daughter's recording all these stories for posterity. So that is one thing they're doing.

Evangelizing Coworkers and the Finished Work of Christ

Speaking of which, when you got the diagnosis, uh, gave you a heightened sense of, of wanting to evangelize others. And I know one of the things you did is you put together an email slash letter for some of your coworkers and, uh, I got to see that and was encouraged by it.

Um, what, what is the response of your coworkers been as you have been trying to tell them about forgiveness found in Christ and how you can trust in him for the main thing that is salvation. So you can trust in him for your life and eventually your death.

Um, so I kind of invited them to ask me about it, but as of yet, no one's really taken me up on it. Um, but, um, I mean, over the, over the past year, cause I, I did go back to work. Um, I was able to communicate with some on, you know, on a more comprehensive level, you know, what my confidence in Christ has been and some over the years more so than others, um, would let me, um, speak at much greater length.

And, um, so one gal, Kathy, um, was always, uh, she was Catholic and very outspoken and I'd always like rehearse the gospel where they should tell me about all these things she was doing. And I would say, no, what am I going to say?

Oh, and she would already know. Yeah. Well, no, it took about 30 times and, and then she'd say, it's what Christ has done that's the most important. It's not what we do. It's the finished work of Christ.

Um, when he said on the cross, it is finished, he meant it.

Well, that is great news because, you know, as we talk about all the time here at the church and the books that we're trying to read, if we had to do things to get into heaven, we just, as the confessions would talk, we'd have to perfectly do them, entirely do them exactly.

And, you know, do them, uh, personally, uh, it just have to be perfect obedience. And therefore to get to heaven by doing, it's just impossible. But if the Lord Jesus came and, uh, added human flesh, which he did, and then did perfectly, and then he paid for our indiscretions, our sins for not doing things perfectly, then there's hope.

Uh, when I say to you, Larry, he did. That's right. That was, that's third class conditional. That's a sense, not an F. See, I get corrected by the lay people here at the church. You know what I love, Larry, is here at the church, there are lots of men like you and ladies as well.

You know, theology and you want to be precise and exact like an engineer would when it comes to building something. You don't want to have the gospel tinkered with. Um, how do you, how do you motivate yourself to study?

Forget, forget cancer. You just think to yourself, well, I need to learn such and such. Did all the seeker sensitive Rick Warren stuff from the old church propel you into that study or how did that come about?

Um, not really. We, uh, we had been going to conferences. I mean, the Bolton conferences began in, in, uh, my old church. So, um, and my, the first pastor that we, uh, that was there when we went was a reformed pastor taught verse by verse and was a wonderful preacher.

Um, and, um, but we, so those were the local, that was one of the local conferences we would attend every year. And, but we also attended Ligonier conferences with our whole family and would travel to, to do that.

But in addition to that, I would always be listening to sermons, um, on either podcast or way back in those days it was just a CD. So I'd get CD series and things like that. Okay.

Reading, Theology, and Trusting God Beyond Understanding

What, what kind of, speaking of study, do, what kind of books have you read in the past couple of years? Um. Probably harder for you to read now. What, besides the Gospel Primer, what do you read?

Uh, right now my wife and I are reading together and that's one thing we've been able to do much more this past year, uh, was read books together. And so we're reading, um, like a daily devotional by some of the Puritans and, um, actually two of them.

And then None Greater is, is the book. Matthew Barrett. Right. Barrett. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. Good. I like that book a lot. It's, it's just, it's super, yeah. Rocking my world.

I know. I have to stop and look up some words once in a while.

I, when, when kids were younger, I would say, you know, when we talk about God and His, you know, His nature and His attributes, when we get to some of these attributes, these are the types of things that just make your head hurt.

And I would say we, we can't, you know, our minds are finite and we can't really wrap our heads around them. So the, you're supposed to think about these things and consider what the scriptures say about them and, but you're not going to completely wrap your head about around them.

You're going to have to just trust God that this is what He says about Himself and what He says He means.

Yeah. Isn't that good? Isn't that good, Larry? Because I think some people say, well, if I can't understand it, then it can't be true. But the right response, and both you and I have been taught this, the right response is, this is amazing and this is inducing praise.

Right? Right. So Larry, while I've got you here, we don't have tons of time left. Time goes by fast. What, you've been here for a long time. What do you, what do I teach that you kind of think, you know, I don't really go for that.

Is there something that I teach that you disagree with? I want to know now. It's okay. You can tell me. Cause I know the main things we're set.

Yeah. No, I, I mean, you teach the scripture, so I don't have a problem with that.

Cause there's gotta be something that I, that I teach where you go, ah, I probably have a different view on that. Not much. Nothing's coming to mind. All right. That's fine. Do you feel with the, um, the brain, um, tumors in the, in the surgeries that you can still think the way you can, or do you feel like you're slower or your recalls worse?

No, actually, um, you know, I think one of the things we did was we changed our diet and my, and, and I, um, I think my thinker got sharper, I could, I could string longer numbers together. I wasn't as hesitant as going back, um, to numbers, double, triple checking things.

Oh, interesting.

Yeah. That was, this is all this keto for cancer diet, right?

And, um, so my coworkers would dispute that and they did it at the lunch table, you know, I say something like that and they, my good friend Scott would like roll his eyes and say, Oh yeah.

Uh huh. Well, you know, you're fun to be around, but that time we had lunch a couple of months ago, it wasn't so fun. You bring in, you know, all your olive oil from the car has to be extra virgin. Just dousing this food.

They had nothing. You put like a half of a ladle on that thing.

Yeah. Well, that's, it's good fat. So it's good for you.

Hope for Grandchildren, Marriage, and the Care of a Wife

All right. Let's think about, uh, the future. I'll die one day. You'll die one day. What do you want your grandkids to know about Larry, Grandpa. Larry? What do you want to tell them if they were to pull this up and say, I'd like to know Larry a little bit better, Grandpa, what do you, what do you want to tell your kid, your grandkids?

Um, well, mainly that I loved Christ and, um, I'd love them to love Christ as well.

Amen. How about your wife? We should mention Mary Ellen. Tell me a little bit about how she's helped you and been supportive. She's been amazing. How long have you been married? Uh, since 83. He's going to blame his tumor on you.

Yeah, that's right. They cut that part out.

And where'd you meet? Uh, we met at Grace Chapel in Lexington. Oh, you did. Okay. All right. And that was one of the stories I had to tell. So, okay. It's much, it's very long.

Okay. Well, we've already gone over, but Hey, I'm sovereign over the show. So we'll just have to keep going just a little bit more. Uh, tell me about, uh, your wife and how she's helped you through this.

Oh, um, she's been tremendous. I mean, like I said earlier, um, we were both on the same page, um, when we got the diagnosis. And I mean, when I, when I had the first symptom, I mean, talk about amazing.

We were driving home from vacation and, uh, she was driving and we were towing a trailer. It was five in the morning and I woke up screaming, you know, that my leg feels like it's on fire. It's, it's double the size and it, it really felt like it was waking up from being asleep.

And it, it was, I mean, that was nerve pain I know in hindsight. And, uh, but she said my arm was twitching as well. So she's driving down the road with her right arm in the air, like blocking my flailing arm.

And, um, she said, what do you want me to do? And I said, I don't know. We're in the middle of nowhere. I don't know where there's a hospital. Just keep driving. She said, okay. And then, um, and she's a nurse, right?

She's a nurse.

She was an OR nurse. So she really keeps her head.

She's very calm and cool and collected and she just kept driving. And in the middle of it, I was breathing so hard. I was thinking, Lord, I could die of a heart attack here. And so in the middle of all this incident that lasted like four minutes, um, by God's grace, I said, honey, I just want you to know I love you.

So I went for the brownie points.

And how about before the first brain surgery, what were your last words to her? Cause you don't, you don't know what's going to happen.

I don't, I just, I kissed her and told her I loved her.

How about the second brain cancer? Same, same thing.

Yeah. She was right there with me the second time, you know, right before they wheeled me into the OR. So that was actually better.

I know she's such a helper to you, but she's probably with her OR nurse background. If you're ever trying to be a crybaby about some kind of, Oh no, never marry, never marry.

A nurse if you want any sympathy. You are so smoked. That was such a, uh, yeah, that was one of my stories. Just like a rude awakening. I was groaning from weekend warrior pains and she said, what, what do you want me to do with that?

Well, if you'd like to get in contact with Larry, because you've got cancer and you want to talk to someone, you can email me Mike at no compromise radio. And I'm sure Larry, uh, as he's able would talk with you.

I noticed Larry in the book of first Peter, these people are suffering and it happens to be with persecution and external things, not necessarily a health issues, but he starts off with something that's good for all of us to hear.

And I just want to read a few verses and then you can comment and we'll land this plane. First Peter one, blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled and unfading kept in heaven for you who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Amen.

What could be better than that? Right? Amen. Nothing on this side of eternity, uh, holds a candle.

That's right. Well, hopefully Larry in one year we'll do another interview. How's that sound? I would love to do that. If not, we talk as, uh, as men to men, as a man to a man. And, uh, if you do die before I do, and I officiate your funeral, I'll make sure I tell people the good news of the Lord Jesus Christ and the one that has caused you to be born again.

Does that sound like a deal? It sounds like I'll hold you to that. Mike Abendroth, Larry McLaughlin, No Compromise Radio. Thanks for listening. No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text. Please come and join us.

Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at six. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbcchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.