September 18, 2018 Show with Kyle White on “The Dark Night of the Soul: the Case & the Cure”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 18th day of September 2018.

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You know the Lord is utterly amazing with his sovereign acts of providence.

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I, as many of my listeners know right now because of my

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Facebook posts, I am battling a deep depression right now and have been for the last several days and it's just utterly amazing to me that several weeks ago without knowledge of this being my state of mind today, we had already booked an interview for today with Kyle White.

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He is a first -time guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, highly recommended by my dear friend

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Pastor Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas. Kyle White is pastor of Community Baptist Church of Elmendorf, Texas and we are going to be addressing today the dark night of the soul, the case and the cure and it's because our guest today has taken his journey through this dark night himself, has actually written a journal on it and is going to be sharing passages or entries from that journal today with us so that we may all benefit from the pain that the

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Lord has brought him through and it's my great honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Kyle White.

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Hey brother Chris, thanks a lot. It's good to be here. Well before we go in to your personal testimony of salvation, which as you know is something we do when we have first -time guests on the program, typically anyway, tell us about Community Baptist Church of Elmendorf, Texas.

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We are a church established in 1983. I'm the second pastor and we're a relatively small church.

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Our membership is around 50 members and attendance would be more than that on a

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Sunday but we refer to ourselves as Sovereign Grace Baptist Church because that really is a point of emphasis.

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We would subscribe loosely anyway to the 1689

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London Baptist Confession of Faith. By that I'm really saying we're not what is called full subscriptionists but we do mark that as the historical confession that we would relate to and we have a burden to reach the world.

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We have evangelism and missions as a big focus in our church and we work together, labor together, to accomplish the task of taking the gospel to the world.

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Well we will be, God willing, announcing the website later but just in case

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I forget our website for this church is cbcweb .net.

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Well if you could now before we go into our major theme here on the Dark Night of the

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Soul, I would appreciate it if you could give our listeners a summary of your testimony of salvation, what kind of religious atmosphere, if any, you were raised in and what providential circumstances the

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Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and eventually saved you.

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Yeah, well brother I think that my testimony of salvation is really a significant part of the whole story even into the

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Dark Night of the Soul. I was raised in a very conservative, what would be considered a strict environment where the gospel was proclaimed.

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My parents were believers and were very concerned about how we were raised as a family.

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We had daily devotions as a family, a very committed family in relationship to the

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Lord. My father eventually became a pastor so I was under his ministry, under his preaching ministry.

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I had at the age of seven years old made a public display of salvation or at least

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I went forward and was baptized and without going into all the details it was genuine as far as I understood genuineness at that time.

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But there really wasn't the soul reality to it and at about the age of 12 as I continued to live like a

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Christian, I'm sure that others probably thought that I was a Christian, but it just hit me one evening and this is not a fantastic story except that what's about it is that God didn't leave me in a place of religion.

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He struck me one night as actually upon my bed at night and just hit me with the reality that I was not saved.

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I was yet in my sin and I called upon the

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Lord that night all by myself, just cried out to him to save me. And the result of that has been demonstrated through my life that he did hear and that he did save me.

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I wasn't baptized, I was about 12 years old, I wasn't baptized until I was 15 because I was, folks assumed that I was a

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Christian so I just kept that assumption going until when I was 15 I talked to my dad and I said that you know the scripture says faith is supposed to precede baptism.

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So I did not truly believe until just a couple of years ago that I should be baptized and so he said that was my decision that I needed to make and I did and I distinctly remember that at 15 years old going out into the lake with my dad and the church and the context of the church was

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Spring Pines Baptist Church in Hartsville, South Carolina. I announced my relationship to Christ there before those that were gathered and since then you know from that time all the way up until the event that we're going to be looking at was just a matter of me growing and progressing and learning and I was brought up under the doctrines what we call the doctrines of grace.

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It wasn't something that I came to, I grew up under that. I had my doctrinal

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T's crossed and I's dotted it seemed correctly and I had a you know a lot of other things that were right in my life and then into my marriage but then then the wheels fell off in my late 40s but I don't know if you want me to go right into that.

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Well you know what I'd like you to do, I would like you to go right into that in a minute but I would like you to define for our listeners the phrase the dark night of the soul.

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There's something unique about that, it's not just your average depression, it's not just feeling melancholy, sad, this is something very unique.

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If you could define what you mean by the dark night of the soul. Yeah, it is a season in which very simply put it seems that God has departed and it seems as if no matter, it seems that everything is an effort, every act that once was engaged in with some measure of zeal and some measure of satisfaction and it just becomes an absolute struggle reading the scriptures, praying, even though one who is truly converted

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I believe continues in those things because they know they must struggle as you'll hear in my testimony but it just seems that God is gone and to the point of even wondering if indeed he has and he has just left me for good, left you for good and then a state of confusion

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I've called it, I learned a word during that time that was called discombobulated and essentially like flying a plane in the clouds, you don't know which way is up, you don't know where you are and the things that you thought and that were true and that you stood for, you defended begin to sort of slip away.

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Oh bro, it's a horrible, horrible place. Well, you can go right into your story now and by the way

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I want to quickly just give our listeners our email address if they want to send in questions it's chrisarnsen at gmail .com

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c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA, only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and I could readily understand that this topic above probably most others will lend itself to people perhaps wanting to ask personal and private questions but if it's not one of those circumstances please give us at least your first name city and state and country of residence but if you could continue now brother.

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Okay well Chris I do think it's important for me to state that that I am not addressing the kinds of depression that are set on by some sort of medical or physical reason that's another category this is not this is

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I'm not addressing medical issues here this is something that's I don't even know that I should compare

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I'll just say that this is something that is distinct from that but it could happen in conjunction with that and so for myself it wasn't just mine was circumstantial there were things that occurred in my life and it was sort of a repetitive thing that happened over a number of years and it was a family issue domestic related issue and I'm not going to go into the details of that but it eventually in 2009 an event occurred that has been described by someone else who was helping me during that season it was like running into a brick wall being hit by a

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Mack truck and being laid out on the ground and unable to get up and emotionally that's where I ended up I have some entries here in my journal that might be helpful in September of 2009

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I said this this is the morning of the fifth day Jody and I have been on our sabbatical the church allowed me a season to sort of step away we have been isolated from familiar faces in ministry but not from familiar attacks of evil thoughts and moments of despair my mind has battled nearly constantly at times

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I seem to be gaining victory and then some fiery dark comes hard faith seems very very weak at times

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I have considered it moments just giving up I trust it's the spirit of God within that will not let me my hope is entirely in my risen

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Christ who intercedes for me without him I am nothing and cannot win this morning began with intense mental soul conflict and then in 2010 another entry and I'm just sort of giving an overview of the season if that's all right of course yeah and and on I'm turning to another page here in the journal and this would be in January of 2010 it seems

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I have been in a daily battle to continue in faith so this has been going on for months some days have been almost unbearable

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I cry unto the Lord sometimes with very little confidence and he gives me sufficient to survive

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I long to thrive with deep confidence that I know cannot be shaken by any argument

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God's Word continues to be life to my soul prayer has been difficult but necessary and then another and a couple of months few months later in May the and I'm apologize working with one hand flipping pages here but it has been a long time since I have enjoyed a season of deep soul peace free from haunting and disturbing questions relating my to my faith in Christ and his life in me

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I feel the battle intensely much of the time I'm thankful that I still have hope in him which indicates to me that he has not forsaken me

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I am seeking strength from him I am seeking to lay hold of eternal life and leave mysteries alone and skipping into 2011

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February of 2011 there is this entry as I pray

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I confess to God that I feel like I'm still recovering from this long dark hard season in which my faith has been sorely tried

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I love him but feel that I come very short in demonstrating the love he deserves

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I still am affected negatively at times with questions of theological theological nature that do not have answers that satisfy me by the way that was one of the deep problems that and I'll address that maybe a little bit more later but another entry five days later in February Lord my life is yours to do with me and mine as you please you have given and you have every right to take away or to do with me as you please

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I believe you promised that you intend good and not evil you clearly demonstrated that by sending your son into the world to live and die the most humiliating death but at the same time conquering death by way of resurrection thank you for showing mercy to me you can kind of see a a movement in a better direction as I kind of go through this overview of this period of time in 2011

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July if this past two years is to be considered a trial of faith or a crisis of faith it has been long deep and difficult often it has been almost more than I can handle

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I'm learning that this may be God's point to me he is showing me that without Jesus I am nothing my need is greater than I realize

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I'm not sufficient to succeed in the Christian life I need grace much grace God's grace in Jesus Christ and then skipping into 2012

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March of 2012 so this is nearly a year later wow it has been two months since my last entry my attitude has changed over this time

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I'm learning to be content in whatever state I am in I'm seeing God's goodness everywhere in ways

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I didn't seem able to see before all is not bleak and then in another entry in July of the next year this is another year later through many dangers toils and snares

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I have already come his grace has brought me safe thus far grace will lead me home how my mind and affection enter into these express this expression of truth at times faith has been very weak and life seemed almost gone but my poor soul has been sustained by my merciful father because his son because of his son and my savior though unbelief is all around me my soul is safe and stable due to his sustaining grace he will not let me go

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I don't want to go to whom shall I go he is my salvation my joy my strength

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I will trust in him and be glad and then one other just looking at this overview on on June 19 2013 my journey to the celestial city continues my struggles of faith are not what they once were

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I'm very thankful to my loving savior for keeping and restoring my soul I have walked through very dark and long valleys but I am now enjoying a season of refreshment in my soul and maybe maybe that's how you know

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I conclude with to God be the glory he is good and brother that's one of the things that I could not say

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I had a fellow elder during thankful about the fellow elder in it sort of skipping ahead but I'll just drop this thought in here that would say to me through the darkest of times every time he would see me he would say brother

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God is good and I would look at him and sometimes and I'm ashamed to say it but sometimes

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I got angry because frankly I could see no goodness it was dark but he kept reminded me and I am thankful that now

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I mean it's now 2018 I can say with every cup then I then I said it

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I preached it God is good but it was it was a statement of faith I knew it was so but I couldn't see it

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I couldn't sense it I couldn't feel it my affections were cut off from it and I'm thankful that now my story's very different I I not only see it and can say it by faith

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I feel that God is good praise God there's the overview yeah well uh do you

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I mean one of the things that uh is a dilemma I'm sure you would agree at times at least it's a dilemma to explain it to people or to even comprehend it in our minds we who are believers in the doctrines of sovereign grace sometimes we don't know whether to blame

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Satan for something that we're going through sometimes sometimes we think that something is coming directly to us as a chastisement or a punishment from God but the thing but the thing that we have to remind ourselves at all times is that even if Satan is attacking us our loving and merciful and gracious God is permitting that to happen for a reason that he may only know uh and we may never know especially this side of glory but how do you balance these things out in your mind obviously even when we look at the the circumstances with Job uh every time

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Satan attacked Job in in various ways it was only by the permission of our sovereign

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God sure no question about that and I you know I I want to say more specifics about some of the sins that I came to see during that season when we talk about the cure um

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I'm I'm as I as I think about the this the experience the case of the deserted soul

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I I'm convinced that when you're going through a dark season like that it's it's hard to analyze it's hard to know and uh

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I mean I can say things on the other side of it um I can speak with more clarity now than I could have then but I was wrestling with I didn't know what all

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I was wrestling with I I got an entry here for example October 6 and this would be 2009 seems

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I have wrestled all night with demons of unbelief I refer to it just as demons of I I it's it's something that I had never experienced before um and I say in here it

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I thought I was beyond this yet it came back with full force last night doubts about God the gospel everything that should be sources of peace miserable night oh

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God have mercy upon my soul and that that's you know that's where I was in my wrestlings

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I was and I think when a person is in this condition they are questioning everything

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I I questioned whether I I was really a believer I mean here's a here's an entry that same month uh continue to have strong battles in my mind and soul regarding my own relation to God uh

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I mean if I if I have a relationship with God why am I going through this you know um

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I say I believe but too many questions of unbelief flood my mind are these fiery darts from the enemy or are there are these my own reasonings in either case they are very troubling and um and so those those kinds of you know there were there were theological struggles that came and um and just not understanding

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I mean I I I would turn to the truths that I knew to be true but they didn't help me and uh um and like here's here's an entry suffered great battle of depressed spirit last evening this was

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January of 2010 thoughts of dissatisfaction with God's purpose to save only a few seemed to haunt me

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I'm struggling I mean these are things that I never I mean I had all my theological arguments in place but it was like all of those theological arguments melted away and they didn't help me and I I'm just painting the case here you know that's where I was and I and I imagine there are others who who struggle with this um the answers that once seemed clear and satisfactory now seem to trouble me what is at the root of this one thing

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I know I cannot make anyone believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved so I must preach the gospel and be satisfied with the results

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I I'm finding emotional difficulty in this help me Lord and that you know those were kind of recurring themes uh and and there were just there were times of just utter desperation um will this season ever end

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I am tormented by doubts concerning God in my soul is there a way out

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I feel trapped I want to know the presence of Christ in my soul I feel abandoned

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I'm told to walk by faith but I'm getting weary hear my cries oh

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Lord please bring peace to my soul and so I I realize that the question the natural question perhaps from some is why would

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God allow his children to go through something like that um like you said even if Satan is on the firing line and he's has his bullseye on you he's he's he's

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God's Satan God created him and and so these were things that I struggled with and when you're going through this dark season um frankly there's not too many there's not too many theological answers at least in my case there weren't too many theological answers that seemed to satisfy and um and so the struggle was intense desperation do you think that because of the fact and uh you know somebody will always wind up accusing me of broad brushing no matter what

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I say but but but those of us who are theologically calvinistic reformed sovereign grace believers however you want to phrase it we tend to be uh more concerned with preciseness when it comes to doctrine and theology we seem to think that uh that doctrine is and of course we're not incorrect in thinking this uh we but we seem to be above others typically more concerned that every jot and tittle is correct in our thinking and of course sometimes because we are sinners uh sometimes that leads to an over judgmental spirit about those who disagree with us on comparatively minor issues uh non -selvific issues uh but of course you know every effort to by the spirit's guidance and through study uh to to be theologically as pure as humanly possible that's a noble and good thing but do you think that because of that very characteristic of a typical calvinist if you will that is why during your dark night of the soul it was theology that was a part of the thing that was tormenting you uh it's well i can tell you this i mean i've got some specific sins that i can point out because um but i'll say this that um uh there were there were and still are what i call cosmic questions that derailed me and uh but it but it was it was it was it was connected with circumstances in my life it was connected with family relationships it was connected with family members departing from the faith and connected and so so you know and i and i struggled with making sense of all of that and uh and and so in my and so these questions would come in a haunting way see i can ask some of those questions now and it doesn't take me into a dark place um i mean i i can deal with them i can even deal with them by saying i don't know and i can be satisfied because fundamentally i believe the fundamental reason is that my attitude toward god is what it ought to be and i believe that my attitude toward god got out of the foundation was messed up my attitude toward god was wrong during that season and that had to be straightened out and god had to teach me some things and i think he did um i one thing that i you know i preached recently on um god hiding his face the scriptures actually say a lot about that and it's something that some folks don't want to allow as a possibility but the scriptures say too much about it to say it can't be but one thing that spurgeon said is when god hides his face from his people it's almost always behind clouds of dust which they have made themselves wow yeah and i saw that in 2018 that quote had i seen that quote earlier that may have helped me um because you know i i was wrestling i was struggling with the why of it all but brother ultimately i am convinced that what i went through was a trial of faith i believe it was a crisis of faith and maybe i'll maybe i'll just say this every situation is different and like you say broad brushing this subject is is probably not healthy um but i am convinced that every true believer will face a crisis of faith and or i would prefer to use the peter's language a trial of faith and i used to think that that was sort of a you know uh i have an economic problem or i have a physical problem how am i to get past this this is such a trial well i wish that's what i'm not minimizing those sorts of trials but when you've been through something extremely deep that goes to the very core of your soul and who you are and this faith that you have always professed and held to and it's all seems to be crumbling down crumbling around you and seems to be evaporating that right there is a trial and spurgeon said also and i don't i can't someone may be able to bring up the quote but he said something to this effect um if you go through a crisis of faith at the beginning of your christian life you probably will never go through it again but if you didn't go through it in the beginning in other words if you were just if entering the kingdom seemed like sort of an easy process he said at some point in your journey you're going to face a trial that's going to bring your faith to a point of crisis to show whether it's really genuine or not wow we have to go to our uh first break right now uh and once again if anybody would like to join us our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

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chris a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com please give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa and of course as always you may remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter that you are asking but if it's not personal and private if it's just a general question on this subject then please at least give us your first name city and state and country of residence don't go away god willing we'll be right back with pastor kyle white and the dark night of the soul hello my name is james renahan and i'm the president of irbs theological seminary in mansfield texas the word of god says if a man desires the office of an overseer he desires a good thing do you have the desire to serve jesus christ in pastoral ministry 20 years ago the institute of reformed baptist studies at westminster seminary california was for those two decades these institutions worked together to train men for ministry in reformed baptist churches it's been a wonderful partnership now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to the master of divinity degree this is irbs theological seminary we believe that the scriptures of the old and new testaments are the inspired and inerrant word of god that jesus christ is god in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life death and resurrection and that the task of the church is to honor and serve the triune god in all things irbs theological seminary is dedicated by god's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to these doctrines do you sense a call to serve jesus christ in his church as a pastor why not consider irbs theological seminary you'll find more information at irbs seminary .org

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that's irbs seminary .org two s's in the middle i hope to hear from you soon god bless you chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world magazine my trusted source for news from a christian perspective try world now at no charge for 90 days by going to get world now .com

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forward slash podcast james white here co -founder of alvin omega ministries and occasional guest on iron sharpens iron radio i'm so delighted my friend chris arnson will be heading down to atlanta for the next g3 conference from january 17th to the 19th 2019 where i'll be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme a biblical understanding of missions speakers include john piper steve lawson vody balcom mark dever conrad mbewe phil johnson josh vice yours truly and many more i hope you all join chris and me for this phenomenal event for more details go to g3 conference .com

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that's g3 conference .com chris arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio here i want to tell you about a man i have personally known for many years his name is dan buttafuoco dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind dan cares about people and is a theologian himself recently he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the bible ravi zacharias wrote the foreword dan also has a master's degree in theology dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states he represents many christians in serious injury matters all over the country dan is an exceptional trial lawyer he wrote the test for the national board of trial advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more and in approximately 10 different states in illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in new york his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal if you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state i recommend that you call dan consultations are free there is no fee unless you win dan buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 or email me for dan's contact information at chris arnzen at gmail .com

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that's chris arnzen at gmail .com hi i'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune into a visit to the pastor's study every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m

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we bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions our time will be lively useful and i assure you never dull join us this saturday at 12 noon eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor charles heddon spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read he who never quotes will never be quoted he will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own you need to read solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart the mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting books for all ages we invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

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that's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio and please don't forget to continue to pray for my dear friend mike gadosh the founder of solid ground christian books as many of my listeners know he had very serious very complicated and dangerous open heart surgery not long ago he is thankfully praise be to god home recovering uh things seem to be going well and according to plan but please continue to pray for him because he's not out of the woods yet he is still in a in a period of recovery that is touch and go if you will so please continue to pray that he is quickly raised up by our great physician jesus christ to fullness of strength health and vitality and not only physically but that he is a healthier person spiritually than he ever has been before as a result of this trial that our loving and merciful and gracious god has placed him and so please keep mike adosh founder of solid ground christian books in your prayers we will keep you updated on his recovery we are now joining once again uh our guest uh kyle white and he is the pastor of community baptist church of elmendorf texas we are discussing the uh the dark night of the soul and if you'd like to join us with a question of your own our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com

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chris arnzen at gmail .com i just have to make one quick announcement that i failed to do uh because it is a new sponsor and i being a new sponsor i'm not used to announcing their their promotional material but the grace bible fellowship church of harrisburg pennsylvania is our latest sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio and i am planning on being there god willing for their conference coming up on saturday october 6th and sunday october 7th at the grace bible fellowship church on 1250 colonial road in harrisburg pennsylvania the theme of the conference is why the reformation still matters and the speaker is mike abendroth many of our listeners to the iron sharpens iron radio program may remember mike abendroth as a guest on this program a number of times he is an author he is a popular conference speaker amongst sovereign grace believing christians and he's also a pastor in massachusetts a pastor of the bethlehem bible church in west boylston massachusetts and uh the conference is saturday october 6th at 1 p .m

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forward slash conference that's grace bfc which stands for bible fellowship church .com

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forward slash conference now we are back with kyle white on our theme the dark night of the soul and we do have an anonymous listener uh pastor kyle the anonymous listener says i know that you were married at this time during this dark night of the soul you experienced i was wondering how your spouse handled this and the rest of your family and how did your congregation handle this was there any negative feedback were they all patient with you was there a mixture please let us know yeah you know that this is this is the answer to that really is is part of the part of the cure but i'll touch upon that um actually part of the part of the what i was going through was um i was alone as far as my family goes uh and i was going through it alone so i can't go into um more detail without saying things that i really don't want to say publicly about the details but as far as my family goes um they um you know i tried not to wear it publicly i tried not to demonstrate it publicly i went about my business i did the things that i i was dutiful i didn't absent myself from meals i didn't um you know i didn't uh go off and hide somewhere uh so i i kept on going as far as the church goes and that's just an amazing testimony of god's grace within a church uh they knew i would my elders knew i was struggling um more than anyone else because we were more closely and involved in working through it that season but i preached every week um and brother how i did that again it's it's a testimony to the grace of god because uh it was putting thoughts together when you were in a season like that uh depression and those i mean just trying to formulate ideas is almost impossible uh and and yet it happened and some would say that season was some powerful preaching in the pulpit here at the church and um it was again it's a testimony to god sustaining grace through it all well thank you anonymous please keep listening to iron sharpens iron radio and spreading the word about the program wherever you live and beyond uh that's and by the way uh brother if i could say god i don't want anything that i say to bring any kind of negative thoughts toward you refer to him as a loving father in heaven a loving heavenly father a kind heavenly father he is that and and i i but but i'm what i'm saying is during a dark season like that you feel disconnected and you don't see that and sense that but one thing that was ultimately probably the most helpful thing was coming to the conclusion and especially trying to answer the cosmic questions that created so much dust in my soul and darkness was that god is right just simply god is right and it so it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what is happening god is right and and and how will how will having those questions that i was struggling with answered how will that change anything it's not going to change god and and just having the answers to those questions just simply makes me smarter but it doesn't change anything and so i i had to come to the place where i released many of the questions in fact psalm 131 became very helpful lord my heart is not haughty proud nor mine eyes lofty neither do i exercise myself in great matters or in things too high for me and there's there's why i came to see that i was i was entering into a realm that was too high for me in my mind and surely the psalmist goes on to say i have behaved and quieted myself as a child that is weaned of his mother my soul is even as a weaned child and that's where ultimately i came when i settled on this on believing god which kind of gets into some of the cure to this unbelief was at the very root of my problem and i i believe that unbelief in some form probably lies at the root of the problem of a dark night of the soul uh god loves us he loves his children if there is a problem it is not on his side it's on my side and so i i came to see that and uh but but going through it uh there were some even before i came to to that place of stability there were some things that were very helpful and i if you want me to suggest some of those things i can um sure definitely okay this was huge it was immensely helpful to know that my case was not isolated and brother depression and a dark night of the soul feels very lonely i mean even as i say that i i'm getting emotional because um i i do because i know there are lots of folks who struggle with this and it is a lonely place and the question is what's happening um and has anyone else ever felt what i'm feeling has anyone else struggled with what i'm struggling with and then in my case a pastor at that i searched high and low i was looking for testimonies i was you know buying books i constantly read which was sort of an escape because while i was reading my mind was being occupied with something other than my own darkness and so i i read a lot of material but what helped me i think more than anything is what god has recorded for us about this whole matter uh the yes there are those who have experienced this and god has preserved testimony of that in his word psalm 10 verse 1 why do you stand far off oh lord why do you hide yourself in times of trouble that was a real sight of god struggling and then psalm 13 how long will you forget me oh lord forever how long will you hide your face from me how long shall i take counsel in my soul having sorrow in my heart daily how long shall my enemy be exalted over me and then psalm 22 and i know this is prophetic a prophetic psalm but it was something that it seems the psalmist experienced when he said my god my god why has thou forsaken me and that's the way i i mean it might it wasn't that every day was that deep but were those points during the season that it was that deep and i and that's the only cry that i had and and and then it and then i thought actually just recently occurred to me is you know jesus said that while he was on the cross bearing sin so there was a connection to that cry my god my god why and the bearing of sin which indicated to me that sin was in the way and i haven't worked all that out theologically um and i'm not going to do that here on this show but the connection between sin and this sense of departure from god god hasn't really forsaken any of his own he promises that he wouldn't do that he says he hasn't he says he won't but there is this sense of departure and we see it over and over in scripture and the psalms really are for me psalm 88 there is no you know there's no happy ending in psalm 88 um it's like the psalmist the one who wrote that psalm was the left in that condition um at least for that psalm i don't believe he's probably left there but that's where it ended the one prayer that was important to me was in psalm 142 and verse 7 and i would pray this regularly bring my soul out of prison that i may praise thy name i i wanted to genuinely praise the name of the lord not just mouth it um but to really from the depths of my soul in faith a faith that actually genuinely connected with the reality and the truth that he was worthy of praise and uh and i struggled with that and so i would pray that prayer from psalm and this is the encouraging thing is that god he hasn't left us in the dark on this issue he he has given so much of his word to address this very struggle that he would allow his saints to go through or would bring upon his saints in the context of sin or perhaps the context of chastening but the bottom line is god has his eye on his children every constantly and that that's so important to keep in mind he has not forsaken us though it may feel though it may feel that he has by the way we have a listener in tuscaloosa alabama ted who says it's very odd that pastor white should mention psalm 131 earlier because i've been thinking of that psalm all week for no readily apparent reason interesting yeah we have to get it you know it's just those drops of truth that kept me going through the season we have to go to our midway break right now and our midway break is our longer than normal break because grace life radio 90 .1

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fm in lake city florida requires of us a longer break so that they can air their own commercials and public service announcements during our program to localize it to the lake city florida area so please be patient as we take this longer than normal break and use this time to not only write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and more successfully patronize them because we do depend on their advertising dollars to exist and also take this time to write your questions down for pastor kyle white on the dark night of the soul our email address is chris arnson at gmail .com

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gotta tell you for my money chris arnson's radio program is just the best iron criticizing i think that's what it's called this is todd freel of wretched radio and tv with phil johnson of grace to you inviting everybody to come to the g3 conference which has almost instantly become one of the best conferences in the country and it is it's a great conference i love it and chris arnson was there last year he's been there i think every year it's great to see him there you and i actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place which is a highlight tons of stuff going on tons of great speakers and no matter where you are in the building you will hear chris arnson's laugh and that's worth the price of admission alone if you would like to join phil me chris and a cavalcade of great preachers so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers and me g3 conference .com

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.nyc they believe in a sovereign god who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel if you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching which is simply biblical preaching in new york city i'd like to recommend that you visit new covenant church nyc again their information can be found at www .ncc

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.nyc have a great day chris sorenson host of iron sharpens iron radio here i want to tell you about a man i have personally known for many years his name is dan buttafuco dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind dan cares about people and is a theologian himself recently he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the bible ravi zacharias wrote the foreword dan also has a master's degree in theology dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states he represents many christians in serious injury matters all over the country dan is an exceptional trial lawyer he wrote the test for the national board of trial advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more and in approximately 10 different states in illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in new york his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal if you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state i recommend that you call dan consultations are free there is no fee unless you win dan buttafuco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 or email me for dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:06:34

that's chrisarnson at gmail .com hello my name is james renahan and i'm the president of irbs theological seminary in mansfield texas the word of god says if a man desires the office of an overseer he desires a good thing do you have the desire to serve jesus christ in pastoral ministry 20 years ago the institute of reformed baptist studies at westminster seminary california was born for those two decades these institutions work together to train men for ministry in reformed baptist churches it's a wonderful partnership now we have advanced our school into an independent seminary offering a full program of courses leading to the master of divinity degree this is irbs theological seminary we believe that the scriptures of the old and new testaments are the inspired and inerrant word of god that jesus christ is god in the flesh who came to save sinners by his life death and resurrection and that the task of the church is to honor and serve the triune god in all things irbs theological seminary is dedicated by god's grace to preparing godly ministers who will be committed to these doctrines do you sense a call to serve jesus christ in his church as a pastor why not consider irbs theological seminary you'll find more information at irbsseminary .org

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that's irbsseminary .org two s's in the middle i hope to hear from you soon god bless you hi i'm buzz taylor frequent co -host with chris ironson on iron sharpens iron radio i would like to introduce you to my good friends todd and patty jennings at cvbbs which stands for cumberland valley bible book service todd and patty specialize in supplying reformed and puritan books and bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone since 1987 the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available christian books and bibles at the best possible prices unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly much of what is being printed is not worth your time that means you can get to the good stuff faster it also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic heretical and otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors their website is cvbbs .com

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browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence as todd and patty work in service to you the church and to christ that's cumberland valley bible book service at cvbbs .com

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that's cvbbs .com let todd and patty know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio and you can also call cvbbs .com

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at 800 -656 -0231 800 -656 -0231 they man that phone line monday through friday but typically between 10 a .m

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and 4 30 p .m eastern time and if you order a minimum of fifty dollars of merchandise and you mention chris arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio not only will you get free shipping on your entire order of fifty dollars or more but you'll also receive absolutely free the journalable psalm 119 published by reformation heritage books that's the journalable psalm 119 and make sure you mention chris arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio before we return to pastor kyle white of community baptist church of elmendorf texas and our topic the dark night of the soul we just have some important announcements to make this weekend friday september 21st and saturday to september 22nd the word of truth church in farmingville long island new york is hosting the creation and the authority of the bible conference with keynote speaker dr robert w carter of creation ministries international the friday night time is 6 30 p .m

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and 8 p .m and the saturday night time is 1 p .m 2 30 p .m

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and 4 p .m dinner is served at 5 45 followed by a final session at 7 p .m

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and a question and answer on saturday for more details on this conference go to wot church .com

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wot church .com which stands for word of truth church .com

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or call 631 -806 -0614 631 -806 -0614 then coming up on saturday october 6th and sunday october 7th our new sponsors grace bible fellowship church of harrisburg pennsylvania are having their reformation conference on the theme why the reformation still matters that's featuring guest speaker mike abendroth who is an author a conference speaker and a pastor at the bethlehem bible church in west boylston massachusetts the saturday october 6th session begins at 1 p .m

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then they have another session at 3 20 p .m and a final session that day at 4 35 p .m

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on sunday october 7th their first session is at 9 15 a .m for the second session at 10 30 a .m

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and then their final session at 6 30 p .m if you'd like more details on this conference at the grace bible fellowship church of harrisburg pennsylvania go to gracebfc .com

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forward slash conference that's grace bfc which stands for bible fellowship church dot com forward slash conference you could also call grace bible fellowship church of harrisburg pennsylvania at 717 -652 -5229 717 -652 -5229 god willing i will be there so i hope that you join me there then coming up in november the 9th and the 10th the alliance of confessing evangelicals is having their annual quaker town conference on reform theology at the grace bible fellowship church of quaker town pennsylvania the theme is the glory of the cross and its speakers include david garner ray ortlund richard phillips timothy gibson and carlton wynn that's november 9th and the 10th at the grace bible fellowship church of quaker town pennsylvania for more details go to alliance net .org

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alliance net .org click on events and then scroll down to the quaker town conference on reform theology god willing i will be there as well manning and exhibitors booth so i hope to see you there make sure you greet me during a break at the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth there in quaker town pennsylvania then coming up in january uh god willing this will be my third year in a row manning and exhibitors booth at the g3 conference in college park georgia which is a suburb of atlanta at the georgia international convention center the g3 stands for gospel grace and glory and this january the theme is the mission of god a biblical understanding of missions that will be held thursday january 17th through saturday january 19th on wednesday january 16th there will be a spanish speaking edition of the conference but for those of you who are going to the english speaking conference from the 17th to the 19th speakers include dr james r white john piper stephen j lawson vody baucom mark dever conrad and bayway tim challis phil johnson of uh john macarthur's ministry grace to you josh bice who is the executive director of the g3 conference todd friel of wretched tv and wretched radio stephen j nichols who is the president of reformation bible college the college founded by the late rc sproll and ligonier ministries and many more are on that roster if you would like to attend this conference go to g3 conference .com

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g3 conference .com and i urge you if you have a church a parachurch ministry or business that you want to promote amongst that crowd that they are expecting of between four and five thousand people i strongly recommend that that you also register for an exhibitor's booth just like the one i will be manning at g3 conference .com

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chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line we would love to help you launch an ad campaign as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe here by the way if you do not have a church home uh please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

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and put i need a church or something similar in the subject line because if you're not a member of a bible believing church and you're not prayerfully seeking for one you are living in rebellion against god so please allow me to help you by god's grace rectify that situation because i have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world i've already helped a number of people find churches near them all over the world so please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

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and put i need a church in the subject line that is the same email address where you can send a question to our guest pastor kyle white of community baptist church of elmendorf texas on the dark night of the soul which is our subject today that's chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:17:31

chrisarnsen at gmail .com and we have a question from kathy in mastic long island new york and kathy says i understand the reality of spiritual battles that attack a believer's heart soul and mind i also understand that oftentimes medical conditions contribute to depression such as hypothyroidism did pastor white at any time seek a medical evaluation for a condition that may have exacerbated his depression thank you and that's kathy from mastic long island new york pastor kyle pastor kyle are you there well it looks like okay am i am i there now yes you are you got me nervous there i wanted to push the mute button or something because i was talking okay sorry about that um yeah i heard the question and i and i i did go to a physician that was willing to recommend uh antidepressants uh i i didn't uh you know any of the blood work that i've ever had done there's never been anything that has shown up uh that uh would point to a a physical problem uh i i as i said at the outset of the show i do believe that's possible but and i would encourage people even who are going through what i'm referring to as the dark night of the soul i would encourage them to um to to get examined uh medically and not to ignore the physical dimension to this to this thing uh personally i never took anything because i wanted to learn everything god wanted to teach me through the season that's just the approach that i took and i i uh so i but i did exercise i ride my bike um i you know daily tried to stay active because i know that's a that's a significant part to at least affecting the moods and i ate healthily uh so i did those kinds of things practical things uh and and would encourage that of anyone even if the root is not necessarily some medical problem those are still important things all right well thank you kathy keep listening to iron radio and keep spreading the word in mastic low island and beyond we have bobby in heart's tale new york who says when david said where why have thou forsaken me and later many years later jesus christ echoed those same words while dying on calvary's cross were either of them mistaken according to what you said earlier god never forsakes those who are truly his own can you please explain both david's crying out to god with those words and then more importantly our lord jesus christ saying the same thing okay do we have a good connection brother you're chopping up on me really um yeah uh we do have a good connection as far as i can hear i'm sorry about all right uh well first of all there is the perception of being forsaken and then there's the reality of being forsaken and uh frankly i threw out that idea as i said earlier without having fully developed the thought uh which is always a dangerous thing to do um but as far as christ on the cross uh there was a he was bearing uh in the stead of sinners the the weight of the guilt of our sin and bearing the wrath of god which would have been total separation from god forever so he was bearing that in a way that david was not david was not bearing anything for anyone and so there's a distinct difference between the two but what i'm my suggestion was that sin was related in both cases sin was involved uh sin was the issue um and and i'm suggesting that in david's case uh we of course we know of sin in his life and we know of his various times where he um spoke of the impact of sin upon his life and so i'm suggesting that that's possibly what was um provoking the cry there in psalm 22 but i i won't divide over that well thanks bobby and keep listening in hartsdale new york and spreading the word about the program there and beyond uh we have cj and lyndon hearst long island new york who said you believe who says you said earlier that you believe the root of the problem and forgive me if i'm getting this wrong but that you had unbelief or lack of faith i'm assuming you do not mean that this this in the ultimate sense of being an unbeliever how did you actually mean that phrase that's uh if if i can if i can um answer that by reading several uh inserts from my journal uh that might be helpful would you mind me doing that oh i would never mind you doing that go ahead okay because that really is one of the key things that i want to get across because uh there was the identification of sin that i can see as i worked through my journal took place uh you know it went from uh what kind of woe is me uh i'm in this dark place and what's happening to to trying to analyze and you can see that in the in the journal entries in january of 2010 um it is uh is it possible that my spirit of disappointment or discontent stems from thinking that god is not doing what i think is best am i really challenging god in my spirit oh to bow and magnify him no matter what cast my burden upon him and believe he really does care for me and is ordering what is what is best so there's a there's that you can hear the unbelief in that struggle uh there and then that kind of morphed into i guess i could say an anger or a disappointment with god which i i am saying stems from the root of unbelief uh and here's an entry of february 3rd of 2010 i am quite sure my heart has been bound up with silent anger a sort of deep disappointment with god i'm still thinking this through and want to clearly identified and repented of god is not worthy of my questioning how can i bring glory to him if i am questioning trust fear rest it has been difficult to really believe god loves me because of the way my life has unfolded i must again find the answer to my questions of his love in and at the cross and then february 15th that same uh year the this world and history is under god i must begin all thought with the premise that he has made all things and therefore can do with it as he pleases he's not merely the rightful owner he's the originator creator and sustainer if i understand this i will bow to him listen to him trust him and rejoice in his unmatched love demonstrated in the cross i must glory in the cross for it is there i will see the fullest expression of his thoughts towards sin and toward me the believing sinner god is holy god is love god is like god is faithful and um and then the the spirit of anxiety that again is all connected to this unbelief here's march 17th of the same year i have been full of anxiety over many things i've questioned god at every turn and you can hear a theme through this the questioning of god i have doubted many things i have been anxious i woke at 4 30 this morning with philippians 4 6 on my mind be anxious for nothing i was given i was given in that verse the answer to my anxiety trust god in prayer with thanksgiving i felt as if god were answering my deepest need right now i have sinned he is gracious and then the next day i wrote i wrote this have enjoyed more peace in my mind heart this morning than in a long time is this due to confession of sin yesterday with tears i let the lord know my perception of my anxiety as sin um philippians 4 6 and 7 was has impacted me applied by the spirit i see the need to take every question or concern that would lead to anxiety to the lord in prayer worshiping him alone and giving him thanks for answers that may be hidden in him he has promised to guard my heart mind with peace praise to him for the peace i presently know so maybe that helps to answer the question the struggle of unbelief wasn't a question at times there was the question am i truly one of god's children there was that i did deal with that um but i i believe that was because of that which the writer of hebrews chapter 3 warns against that evil heart of unbelief that actually separates us from god there's a there's it separates it doesn't separate him from us but us from him and creates darkness it can do nothing else but create darkness and so when the sin is recognized confession of that sin and those questions that i refer to the cosmic questions which i'm convinced cause a lot of christians problems what i began to do is just ask those questions of god i would say in prayer i would just simply go to him and i would say i mean when it was an assault when it was an all out i mean a fiery god when i could tell this is a question that's coming at me to try to destroy me i would turn that question to the lord and i would just ask that question god this is the question that's in my mind right now where it came from i don't know but i don't have an answer and i'm coming to you with it and i'm turning it over to you and if there's an answer that i need to to have please give it to me if you're not willing to give it to me now i'll wait on you but i'm going to leave it with you and that's how i dealt began to deal with those questions like that could you could you differentiate between us separating ourselves from god and god separating us himself from us because as you know there are many uh brothers and sisters in christ globally who believe a genuine christian can indeed lose his or her salvation even if they are truly regenerate we who are lovers and believers of the doctrines of sovereign grace would reject that wholeheartedly but uh people might be confused by hearing that they may think that as many armenians do for instance that you can voluntarily jump out of christ's hand but he will never uh he will never let you lose from his hand voluntarily it's us that jumps out and loses our salvation yeah i would answer that with just one scripture and that would be romans chapter eight uh which tells us that nothing can separate nothing is able to separate us from the love of god which is in christ jesus our lord and and that's so so if i am in christ jesus i didn't put myself there he put me there and i can't get myself out of something i didn't put myself into but unbelief can separate me from the sense or the realization of that relationship and it's a it's the most miserable a true believer will be just absolutely miserable in that condition and as i was and will not be willing to stay there and we'll fight and i i can say some more things about that but you know but no there is no there's you cannot lose that which you didn't earn it's a gift so when we separate ourselves from god i'm assuming then you mean that in terms of what we think and what we experience we are bringing upon ourselves when we separate ourselves from god the the emotions that would accompany somebody that is lost at least temporarily we would experience that uh yes the the that's what i believe was my experience and what i see in the scriptures i see in the psalms and i i see you know i see even the letters to the churches in revelation two and three there is that there's that sense of uh those there's a warning there of them losing losing something i don't believe it's losing their salvation but losing the sense of his presence which he calls his presence i mean he stands at the door and knock he's outside he's on the outside of a church like that that's a dark place but the and the thing is a true believer is going to feel that darkness those who aren't truly born again i don't know that they really care you know it's it's it's not much of an issue as long as they have the religious programs as long as they've got their religious trappings you know as long as they're in christian america and they're so forth so on and so forth i don't know that there's a big issue but when you know that what you have had in your relationship to god the communion you have had with god and of your soul and you feel or sense that evaporating that that's that's a place of horror for the child of god and we have to go to our final break a much shorter break than the last one if you have questions that you'd like to ask of pastor kyle white on the dark night of the soul please do so now because we're running out of time our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

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chrisarnsen at gmail .com please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the usa and you may remain anonymous if your question is involving a personal and private matter don't go away god willing we'll be right back with pastor kyle white and the dark night of the soul hi phil johnson here i'm executive director of john macarthur's media ministry grace to you and i'm also an occasional guest on iron sharpens iron radio so i'm delighted that my friend chris arnson and i will be heading down to atlanta for the g3 conference where i'll be joining james white steve lawson voddie balcom mark dever conrad and bayway todd friel josh bice and a host of other speakers to address the topic a biblical understanding of missions chris arnson and i hope to see you all at this very important conference from january 17th through the 19th make sure you stop by the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth to say hi to chris for more details go to g3 conference .com

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that's g3 conference .com see you there paul wrote to the church at galatia for am i now seeking the approval of man or of god or am i trying to please man if i were still trying to please man i would not be a servant of hi i'm mark lukens pastor of providence baptist church we are reformed baptist church and we hold to the london baptist confession of faith of 1689 we are in nofolk massachusetts we strive to reflect paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how god views what we say and what we do than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity but since that wasn't the apostle's priority it must not be ours either we believe by god's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of christ in truth and love if you live near nofolk massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship you can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our tv program entitled resting in grace you can find us at providence baptist church ma .org

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that's providence baptist church ma .org or even on sermonaudio .com providence baptist church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio one sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers i know you all use batteries every day so i'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use batterydepot .com

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that's batterydepot .com linbrook baptist church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st century our church is far more than a sunday worship service it's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant it's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement it's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing we're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and together hi i'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be call linbrook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599 -9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org

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that's linbrookbaptist .org Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read he who never quotes will never be quoted he will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own you need to read solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart the mission of solid christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world since it's beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting books for all ages we invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

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that's solid - ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio my name is steve lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for ligonier ministries i serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in los angeles i would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students andy woodard serves as the pastor it's called new covenant church nyc they are a reformed baptist church that meets in midtown manhattan you can find their service times and location on their website which is www .ncc

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.nyc they believe in a sovereign god who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel if you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching which is simply biblical preaching in new york city i'd like to recommend that you visit new covenant church nyc again their information can be found at www .ncc

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.nyc have a great day listening to christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually even many of the major christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics if you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to firstloveradio .org

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they feature christ -centered programming from reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness such as dr wr downing dr peter masters pastor joe jacobs pastor robert gifford al martin edward delcourt and more firstloveradio .org

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and what perfect theme music a mighty fortress to lead into a reminder of the reformation conference why the reformation still matters to be held at grace bible fellowship church in harrisburg pennsylvania on saturday october 6th and sunday october 7th why the reformation still matters is the theme and the speaker is mike ebenbroth who is an author a conference speaker a frequent guest on iron trumpets iron radio and also the pastor of bethlehem bible church in west boylston massachusetts the sessions begin at 1 p .m

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on saturday october 6th followed by a 3 20 p .m session and a 4 35 p .m

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session and then on sunday october 7th the sessions are at 9 15 a .m 10 30 a .m

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and then 6 30 p .m for more details on the reformation conference at grace bible fellowship church of harrisburg pennsylvania go to gracebfc .com

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forward slash conference that's grace bfc which stands for biblefellowshipchurch .com

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forward slash conference or you can call grace bible fellowship church of harrisburg pennsylvania at 717 -652 -5229 717 -652 -5229 grace bible fellowship church is located on 1250 colonial road in harrisburg pennsylvania please make sure you tell the folks there that you heard about them and their conference from chris arnson and iron sharpens iron radio we are now back with our guest pastor kyle white of community baptist church of elmendorf texas we are discussing the dark night of the soul and we have christian in suffolk county long island new york and christian asks i have many friends who are fundamentalist baptists who i dearly love and i believe that they are right on the money on many things but some of them not all would say that if a person is doubting their salvation that is evidence that they are not saved to begin with would you concur or disagree with this would i would i agree with that right you kind of cut out on me uh no i would not agree with that i would i would respond that there will be a lot of folks in hell because they presumed that they were saved i don't think doubting your salvation will is a ticket to hell i think doubting your salvation if you're especially if you're truly saved will lead to a confirmation of the faith that is in you yes i would agree um and of course doubting your salvation uh don't don't you think that especially if one is in the midst of unrepentant sin that's obviously something that every christian that should be the the conclusion that every christian comes to even if in the reality they are truly among god's elect they should not think that way or feel that way while they're in the middle of unrepentant sin would i be right on that no absolutely i uh that's we have i know of no scripture that would lead me to uh be satisfied with my profession of faith when i am satisfied with my sin that's right that doesn't that doesn't fit uh the view of scripture and there are many scriptures that kind of goes into another subject but yeah that's um i think the thing with it with depression or the dark night of the soul that we're talking about that it's it's and it may be on be set on um because there is sin that god is wanting to reveal in us and i think that's one of the purposes of it i don't think it's the only purpose um but coming on coming out on the other side of a season like that i can tell you is uh your faith is actually strengthened and um and your life has changed i am not the same person today that i was uh before i went through that season and i i believe that uh i am convinced that god took me through that i'm not uh i don't think that i just dove into it who would dive into something like that who would want something like that you know i didn't walk into it just the reality is i don't think i would ever want to go through that again and and yet knowing what it has produced um and what i have learned uh even in my ability to be able to minister to others it's it's changed my spirit it's changed my my attitude um increased patience with others um and being able to being able to empathize with people that i would not have been able to empathize with before and of course i'm assuming you would agree that sometimes our fundamentalist baptist friends are correct if somebody says that i don't know if i'm saved or not that they could be correct on that that they aren't that they are not safe oh sure oh absolutely yeah oh we have a okay go ahead i'm sorry what did you what did you have something else i just had another listener with a question okay we have an anonymous listener who says even if we who are reformed or sovereign grace believing christians believe in the liberty to drink alcohol moderately don't you think that in the midst of depression this could be a very dangerous thing to dabble in uh i can concur with that because unfortunately i after 18 years of sobriety as a christian fell deeply into uh alcohol addiction or drunkenness uh in a very wicked way and it really destroyed my testimony with many people i hope one day i'm able to repair my my testimony and my reputation with with some of these folks i don't know if i ever will i'm mainly speaking of unbelievers who know me uh but uh yes this is don't you think that that is absolutely correct that if you are experiencing a depression and you start thinking that you're medicating yourself by making yourself feeling making yourself feel better with alcohol or anything else for that that's a that's a drug of any kind this is a dangerous uh road well it really is what's happening is what fundamentally uh happens with most everyone is that is we're depending on our feelings we want to feel good all of us want to feel good we want to have and we want to but but god does not call us to live by our feelings uh and this is one of the points that i strong i strongly emphasize is the fight of faith we've been called to a fight of faith not a fight of feelings and our feelings cannot be depended on they can't be trusted um i believe that uh i like feelings i want them but i am not going to sacrifice what needs to be sacrificed in order to get them uh artificially and i and i think yeah you well your test i can't i can't say really than what you've already said to testify against that um so amen well what i'd like you to do now uh before we go to any more listener questions i would love for you to spend some time uninterrupted uh you can feel free to take your time uh because i really want what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today to be said before we run out of time yeah um a fundamental uh biblical truth that was given to me and it's a familiar proverbs 3 5 trust not unto your own understanding lean not unto your own understanding um that was something that was huge to me i didn't i didn't trust my own thinking i didn't trust my feelings um i was pressing myself to the word of god and i would say that anybody who is struggling with depression regardless of the degree or regardless of the label that's placed upon it um believe god just simply believe god do not separate yourself from the word of god the fight of faith faith that is anchored in the scriptures and i can you know i've got journal entries that i can show that's what happened in my own journey for the several years that it was a fight of faith and that is that is exactly what the apostle paul says we're engaged in and it was also fighting in prayer which is a part of that faith not only the word of god but prayer and a fighting in prayer because sometimes when your emotions are down and you're struggling uh it's hard to pray and so the prayers don't have to be complicated uh they just they need to be honest and they need to be i would just say simple and sometimes because you're in a season like that theologically disoriented even it can be with questions the cosmic questions um you know take that to the lord give it to him in prayer i am you know one of the things that i noticed in my journal is the expressions of prayer i i here's april first um i i continue to call upon the lord for help if he does not visit me then i am without hope i seek to apply myself to means ordained for my soul's good but continue to wrestle with emotions that are not satisfied god please forgive me and keep my mind from giving in to plaguing mysteries regarding your government of your world i want to worship you in your holiness not in my evaluation of your you are right good and worthy of praise and that's that's what i would continue to to do is just express the things that i knew to be true even though i didn't feel them you know that that's what faith is i believe it's laying hold of that which you know to be true regardless of what your feelings tell you and then hope keep hoping hope thou in god for i shall yet praise him psalm 42 and that was that was a a huge issue for me somebody uh told me along the way um don't lose hope if you lose hope you've you've lost and so i i had these expressions god is helping he has not forsaken me even in time times that i have not sensed his presence but lately i have sensed his self i have peace thank you my father for what you're doing like a raging storm thoughts questioning god came back yesterday afternoon greatly disturbing my peace i'm calling upon the lord again this morning and trusting that peace will return this is a miserable way to live faith is being challenged he will give me victory he will not lose you can hear that those expressions of hope in god and and i i would encourage that in anybody who is who is struggling with a season like this i have another entry here that may be helpful i have not written in a while my less frequent entries i trust as a sign of my spiritual improvement i once wrote out of desperation never feeling very strong and thus regularly thinking of any low estate thus regularly thinking of my lowest state i do not feel those depths of despair now i'm thinking more clearly i'm thankful to god for saving me and keeping me i am his and he is mine forever and maybe i can just throw out i know we i don't know how much time we have left but just a few practical thoughts here oh definitely it okay if someone is struggling here's here's what i would this is this is what i point to is so significant for my own journey intercessory prayers of others others knew what i was going through and they were praying for me i would get notes from people that i didn't even know knew what i was going through but word spreads and they would tell me i'm praying for you and at those times i would just it would just hit me that's why i'm being sustained that's why i haven't fallen off the wagon so to speak that's why i'm continuing on and then the faithful exhortations of saints not i mean the fellow preachers and others they would exhort me and and that was so critical and then the incredible support of the church brother i can't overemphasize i love the one spot you were talking about how people need to be committed to a local church and you wanted to help that to me is one of the most significant things people when they're going through emotional struggles often isolate and they hide themselves and they want to separate themselves that's the worst thing that you can do do what you don't feel like doing and engage and be a part i mean i was a pastor so i i guess you could say had to go to church you know and i don't know what i would have done had i not been a pastor but there were times where i came and i didn't want to come you know and but i but i did and i'm telling you this church and a faithful church is critical to the support of somebody who's going through something like this and don't keep it silent let it let others know you're going through it so they can go through it with you help to bear the burden and then look outside of yourself to the needs of others that was huge i i forced myself to be involved in the lives of others um even when i didn't feel like it and i had that's a whole other story that i could get involved with and i won't but but i but i just you know i because i knew that if i were to pack it all in and isolate my thoughts and my you know keep my vision upon myself that was that was going to be just that was going to lead to destruction and maybe let me just suggest several books that that i found excellent excellent okay the first is a a case and cure of a deserted soul by joseph simons written in the 1600s published by solideo gloria wow and it's it's probably probably was the perhaps the most helpful book that i read those men back in that day were beyond i mean they knew more than the doctors of our day amazing how some of them understood um the soul of man in relationship to god and this whole conflict very good spiritual depression by lloyd jones one that many know i read that a couple of times it was helpful no condemnation in christ jesus by octavius winslow it just stirred my soul it took my attention it put my attention upon christ and that's what is so desperately needed and then a book called depression by ed welch that is when i realized what i was experiencing was a form of depression i read that book and i couldn't put it down this man was describing everything that was going on inside of me and i just wept as if somebody understands uh depression by ed welch and then finally a book called a grace disguised by gerald sitzer s -i -t -t -s -e -r uh that was helpful a man who experienced some incredible losses of his family and the journey through his theological struggles and how he came through all of that what what i would consult what i would call a dark night of soul for him and and it's it's his journey through that it was very helpful i can add one to that dr david murray who's on the faculty at puritan reform theological seminary in grand rapids michigan he wrote an excellent a very brief volume called christians get depressed too hmm uh so if you want to make note of that uh david murray m -u -r -r -a -y and it's christians get depressed too so i hope that you've looked that up i read his book called reset and and knew that he dealt with those issues i appreciate that yes well i want to make sure that our listeners have uh everything they need to know to get a hold of you i know that your website again for community baptist church of elmendorf texas cbcweb .net

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cbcweb .net you have any other contact information well if somebody wants to email me i will respond as i have opportunity but it's uh cbcelder59 at gmail .com