Two Prodigal Sons? (Special guest Brandon Workman) | Season 5 Episode 2

I Are y 'all ready? I'm assume. We've already started. Are y 'all ready? Are you good? Yeah? I mean we basically already started. Hey everybody welcome to point-taking podcast. We have new cameras. You can see the blackheads on my nose right now.

He said at the times 20 zoom which I think with my nose you probably just need like a times two. I know your nose is pretty big. It looks like a greasy bell pepper. I love you both very much guys. I say that with love a Greasy bell pepper.

I've never been insulted that way a greasy bell. So how much you like food, so I didn't.

Love bell peppers, yeah.

There are only three and a half foods. I don't eat onions mushrooms.

Tomatoes raw tomatoes I can't say tomatoes all out because I don't. You'll do like chunks of tomato and like soup like so I used to not but.

Like if someone if someone actually makes good soup like this morning. One of those it had corn ground beef and the white sauce or ever I'll eat that. No. Now look if you do a pizza do pizza sauce. Don't do them tomato chunks like those people from Chicago do that.

Oh, that's just crap for my wife. They make that crap for those bedwetters that like when I have vegan pizza, so they they can't just hand them cheese. All right, they got to put some other crap on it, too.

I want to ask you something and I had this argument. Slices of tomatoes on it, and that's how they sound. No it is. He's right giant chunks of feta cheese. We have never talked about this. You can put the feta cheese on the meatlovers, by the way.

I want to see if you agree with me on this in season one. I believe was we had an argument and as normal. Everyone disagreed with me. But I think I'm right. I Don't think there are such a thing as cheese pizza.

I don't think it exists. Let me explain. If we define I have my own definition of pizza and I admit it's my own but I think it's consistent pizza by definition in my brain is Bread and it doesn't matter if you do thin crust stuff.

There's a self-rising whatever sauce cheese and a topping so so if you just have cheese. Okay, you have cheese toast. With sauce there has to be one additional ingredient. That's how I see it. So like and here's how here's how a pepperoni pizza true or false.

Does it have cheese? Yes, nine times out of ten. Yes sausage. Yes, or no. No, does a sausage pizza have cheese? Yes meatlovers. Yes vegan. No. Technically. So here's my point. Here's my point. They all have cheese on them.

So a cheese pizza, they every one of them have cheese on it except but it's just one cheese. Let me know when you're ready for my rebuttal. So if they all have cheese on them and you take all the toppings off what kind of pizza is it if you say cheese?

They all have cheese on them. Yeah, but they have additional toppings which makes but okay.

Watch this watch this on a supreme on a supreme. They have sausage, but you're not allowed to call it a sausage pizza. I'll let so on a meatlovers. They have cheese. You don't call it a cheese pizza. That's what I'm trying to say All right, so I'm super super into just Calling it like it is.

Yeah, don't try to be something. You're not right. All right your assessment of Would you call it cheesy crust whatever? No, I love cheesy crust. Yeah, but you said what you said something a second ago.

It wasn't it wasn't cheesy bread. It wasn't pizza. It was cheesy bread. Alright, well cheesy bread does not have sauce on it. So we'll just start there. Yeah. Okay, so I think I said cheese toast with salt.

Okay a pepperoni pizza is a pizza with what on it pepperoni no, no, no a Pepperoni pizza is a pizza with pepperoni on it. Yes. Yes or no, not exclusively. No, I can't. No, I'm gonna say no because meatlovers have pepperoni.

No. Listen to me. I am a meatlovers Has all the meats so you can't you can't single out a single meat. You have to call it a meatlovers. That's why supreme is a supreme. You can't single out one ingredient, but a sausage pizza is a pizza with sausage.

I've never me is a pizza with pepperoni on it and a cheese pizza is not a cheese pizza. It's just a pizza with nothing else on it. You literally prove my point. Hold on. You are calling it. What do you what?

Cheesy crust with sauce. All right. Well, that is trying to make up another term or when the proper word is Pizza. All right. So to be clear you are agreeing with me that there's no such thing as cheese pizza.

I am agreeing with the fact that I don't know. I don't think we're in agreeance at all. So a cheese pizza a pizza is just a pizza until you add stuff to it. So a cheese pizza is a pizza. Yes, but so you it's redundant to call it a cheese pizza.

I think it's redundant to call it a cheese pizza. I'll take the half agreement. Thank you, sir. If you don't mind, yeah, I Would never have taken you shake my hand that way. That was my that was my impression of Justin.

For Justin we love him. I've got a little I've got a little something on on veganism I really do and we're not gonna get off on a tan. Just eat your talk about raw food. Is that just died from starvation?

Oh, I didn't know about that one. This is just a thought poor girl because natural selection. Because. Because. Okay, let me just I've done this before there are vegans that do it for health reasons or visions that do.

There are vegans that do it for a political stance. It doesn't matter. Okay, so I'm talking about these people over here the ones that do it because they think all life is equal. Animal life plant life human like that.

Has anyone ever met someone like this? They think dude. Those are the only girls I dated. Yes, I know. I was trying to look towards you. So so here's what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the health.

I'm talking about the people that are vegans on a political stance because they believe all life and they literally mean Like flowers all life is equal. I want you to think about something I've got to say but they'll kill babies think about this for a moment.

In a sense. In a sense when you pick an apple aren't you technically killing. Yeah, you're taking it from its life. You're at least you're at least making it where that life the apple and the apple alive.

Okay, but it's a product. It's a product of the tree which you are stealing without permission. Yes, okay cutting down the tree would be the same avocados you used to make your flower you stole without toast.

Thank you. It's avocado toast. So thank you. So Okay, their food their idea is no product of any kind from animal period right mulch if they're consistent Makeup if they're consistent oil. Believe me.

I know. Yes. So here's my point. They do the only two foods that I can think of. That doesn't kill or alter life. Because like you're stealing the apples right your day, okay would be milk and honey.

Which they reject because they come from an animal. I think honey is like have I told you this before? Yeah, but I think some people are more lenient with the honey. They can't it's a product of an animal.

You're gonna be consistent or you're not. Oh, no, I totally agree with you.

There are some what's funny is they reject those even though you can get those without stopping any natural process.

And it's cruel because those poor cows have to have their udders, right?

But when they have overproduced milk that they I'm not talking about from a farming system. Yeah that they don't need because of all the cows they don't have enough cows do it. They reject those because they come from animal.

It is intriguing to me that promised land was promised up to be a land of milk and honey. Which doesn't kill life to produce. It's intriguing to me.

If nonetheless my thing is if you if you are vegan for like the political stance just like Be sad just be miserable over there like don't make a whole spectacle of it. There was actually a little girl who she was friends with my cousin and they were over at dinner with their.

They were over at dinner at my aunt's house and she's like well I can't eat that because I'm vegan and my aunt says well you can go eat the grass that's in the backyard. Yeah, it's a good or you can eat what's put in front of you, but that kills life.

Yeah. Consistency really bows inconsistency. Go ahead pretty wild. You have a lot. I mean I have so much to say. Do one. Parable of the probably are but we're not playing a game. Yes. My comment about veganism is everything everything that makes a vegan food is.

Heavily processed made with soy. Yeah.

Let's think about this for a second. All right. Let's think about this for a second. What do you have to do in order to create soy destroy molehills and caterpillars? See. You know what? We should just talk about the the argument.

All right, so it's um. It's time for the prodigal son. We don't play the game today because I won last week. So we don't have to play another game today. If I said something incorrect, you can correct me.

I mean, I wasn't playing against you. So.

I don't have anything to say because you sure had something to say last week when I was winning.

You told me a so I was a sore loser when I was winning. No, that was with the spelling. That was with the spelling.

Spelling be anyway, so so here's what we're gonna do guys. We're gonna walk through the parable of the prodigal son the lost son. And and I'm just gonna frame it for us. Anna's gonna read it and then we're all going to but primarily brother Brandon is gonna walk us through a text.

So just to give everyone a frame of reference we're in Luke 15 and Jesus actually, I don't know how many people notice this. He actually tells the same parable three times using three different analogies.

So first he starts with the lost sheep. Then he talks about a lost coin. Then he talks about a lost son. All three of the parables are just reillustrating the exact same point. Jesus was like me. Let's try it again.

I'm like Jesus in that. Repeating myself with different analogies gets the message through apparently. Yeah, so lost sheep lost coin, but then the longest section is the lost son. So that's what we're going to walk through here.

So miss Anna. It's a long section, but hey, it's the Bible so get over it. Miss Anna's gonna read it and then brother Brandon's gonna walk us through it. So let's go don't mess it up. Okay.

So I'm in Luke 15 11 through 32 and He said there was a man who had two sons and the younger of them said to his father Father give me a share of the property that is coming to me and he divided his property between them.

Not many days later the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into the far country Where he squandered his property and reckless living. And when he had spent everything a severe famine arose in that country and began to be In need so he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country who sent him to his fields to feed Pigs and he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate and no one gave him anything.

But when he came to himself, he said how many of my father's hired servants have more than enough bread. But I perish here in hunger. I will arise and go to my father and I will say to him father I have sinned against heaven and before you I am no longer worthy to be called of your son.

Treat me as one of your hired servants. And he arose and came to his father but while he was still a long way off his father saw him and felt compassion and ran and embraced and kissed him and Then the son said to him father.

I have sinned against heaven and before you I am no longer worthy to be called of your son. But the father said to his servants bring quickly the best robe and put on him and put a ring on his hand and shoes on His feet and bring a fattened calf and kill it and let us eat and celebrate.

For this is my for my son was dead and his alive again and was lost and now is found and they began to celebrate Yeah going 25 through 32 just finishing it up now. His older son was in the field and he came and drew near to the house.

He heard much music and dancing and he called to one of the servants and asked what these things meant. And he said to him your brother has come and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has received him back safe and sound.

But he was angry and refused to go in. His father came out and then threatened or entreated him. But he answered less father. Look these things. I'm sorry. Look these many years I have served you and never disobeyed your command yet.

You never gave me a young goat that I might celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours came who was devoured your property and prostitutes. You killed the fattened calf for him and you said to him son With me and all that mine is yours.

It was fitting to celebrate and be glad for this is your brother was dead and is alive and he was lost and now is Found. I did mess up. So You mostly did great.

He's such a bully. Brandon, no, I think you're just I'm only a bully until you get to know me. So if anybody in church doesn't know me is listening to me look at the way that he's dry. I'm only a bully for as long as you allow me to be which is mostly your fault.

Yeah you see the rings that's like.

Bully. The rings. Yeah punch him.

I'm talking about my signet ring. Yeah, that makes someone a bully. Oh, yeah, and you see his tattoos and all that stuff. He's just but the father in this exact story has a ring and he gave it to him a bully.

Okay. Let's whisper thing Brandon, okay. I used to be very intimidated of Brandon when I first met him, but then I saw him with his dogs. Oh Bowl of mush. I remember looking at him because we were over at your house for like Accountability at one point with your wife and I remember him coming in and him just being like, there's a good baby.

I'm just like it's the same. Like what's wrong with him, but no he. I'm just like he is a bowl of mush. It's just the front but now if you get to know Brandon, he's really cool. It's not just the front.

There's there's some depth a little bit. It depends on how your attitude is and where that attitude is directed. If we're being serious about it I will say it's a strong front. But if your attitude is directed towards the wrong person you'll find very quickly it's not.

That's fair. Fair argument. That's fair. Okay prodigal son.

Prodigal son. Okay, so I've been thinking about this from my own perspective in my own Experiences ever since I was asked to be on this podcast and I really don't think the prodigal son Applies to me in the sense that it's being asked because I you have to have first Been a part of the family in order to have left the family.

When I was I asked what was what was needed for me? Like what was expected of me in the podcast and it was you know I was asked to share my testimony from when I walked away with God to When I came back and I don't know that.

I I was ever really a part of God's family to begin with so I'll start by saying that I grew up in church. A lot of people like me grew up in church and they all experienced the same things and when you're young you don't realize that.

People are gonna act like people and sinners are gonna act like sinners. Even if they're Christians and they're doing the very best they can do. You're gonna find fault with them. And so naturally, you know You call them a hypocrite or whatever and you you tried to use that as your crutch to leave.

I don't wanna go to church with all those hypocrites, you know, who's heard that before? Anybody heard that before? Yes. Okay, so He Let's see here. The son goes to his father, right? And he says give me the portion of inheritance that is false to me and I was thinking about thinking about that.

The the son going to his father and asking for his inheritance is probably pretty akin to Wishing the father was dead. You know what I mean? I mean like you think about that this only doesn't come to his dad, right?

He doesn't care about his father. And this is important for something that I want to follow up with later. He doesn't care about his father. He doesn't have love for the father. He just wants what is his and he wants to go off and do what he wants to do.

And that was me for years and years and years and years and years. I Grew up in church. I I was only there because my parents made me go. And I you know, I had friends there, but it wasn't Something that I didn't want to be there if I had my choice and oftentimes I would think you know when I get old enough.

Where I can make the decision not to come I'm gonna stop coming. I said that to myself a lot. And I did when I was 16, you know 17. It was those were really bad years for me, too.

Before the podcast I found out something Brandon used to do when he was 15 and that was no no, no.

That was the dresses came after that. Okay, I wasn't gonna admit that you wore dresses. Oh, I have no shame. Okay I've done a lot of stuff in my life. I learned a long time ago. Can you imagine Brandon in a dress?

And I tell you something man. It was red velvet.

Okay, those who are wondering the first dress I ever wore was red velvet and. It was at school and my science teacher who was also a it was like a retired wrestler.

I tried to look him up it what. I couldn't find anything. Do that name.

Maybe he was lying to us, but I I'll bet my paycheck. I remember he said his name was Hugo humongous. So a wrestler not a wrestler a wrestler. Yeah, I'm sorry is when my English too good. Yeah, it was.

Yeah, not southern enough. My mistake. Anyway, he he told me no, he was like not in my class. You can take that off right now.

But that was just me being stupid. Yeah. So anyway, 16 17 year old Brandon, you know, so little interesting as.

The father it doesn't really go into it because the story is a bit vague. But the father gathers together his estate and gives it to his son, right? But it doesn't talk about the pleading that no doubt the father did with his sir, you know and the mother.

Where's the mother and all this? So you've got the father pleading with his son many many many times over and over but the son will not listen. He is stubborn. He is prideful and arrogant and entitled.

Let's not forget that. That's a word that people don't want to apply to themselves pride and entitlement is something that I have dealt with a lot in my life and Still deal with and I think you know going back to that whole being opinionated thing I think there's a lot of entitlement in people that are opinionated because Nobody cares what you have to say.

Yeah, just just shut up. That's what other Brandon tells me that all the time, but I'm like mid-sentence. And so I have to commit. But nobody cares and it's that sense of entitlement that somebody really cares what you think about their outfit.

Yeah, you know, I mean Anyway, so He doesn't listen to his father he Doesn't listen to counsel. He doesn't listen to the wise a person that is Pushed himself away from God the way that I did doesn't want to hear or listen or abide by rules or Doing what they know is right now whether somebody admits it or not, you know I did when I was running around running around.

I think that's what I was gonna say. Yeah, I mean, you know anyway, so How far did he go? He went. Let's see here, where is it? He went to another Country, right? It says he into a far. Yeah, he traveled to a distant country, right?

Well, how many times have you heard pastor Jeff talk about sin? I'll take you further than you want to go and keep you there longer than you want to stay. Yeah, so I think that's an interesting distinction that he went to a far-off country where nobody knew him.

Yeah, right where his family couldn't come visit him where there wasn't anybody that knew his family that knew him that could give reports back to his family and That's so for me personally when I'm reading that passage.

I see that as sin Dividing me from the father and At that time in my life. I did not have a great relationship with my dad who is not a great communicator. But was doing everything he could do to communicate with me.

And I was also not a good communicator at that time. So I was doing whatever I wanted to do anyway. So he let's see here. He's far away, I think that is a representation of Sin keeping us from our Heavenly Father and then we've got.

It says in verse 14 that after he spent all a great famine arose in the country I think it's a I think it's a funny side note that people that don't have anything are always in famine. Yeah, that's that's kind of a hard lick on People that can't govern their finances.

Well, not just their finances, but their lives, you know what I mean? Yeah, but they're always in some sort of turmoil or peril or famine and I think it's funny that.

You know, and then when you when you have your stuff together, it's just like an inconvenience. It's not for sure.

I was falling right exactly, but a famine is always going to arise when you have spent all and he has spent all. You know what one thing that when you just said that in verse 14. So I look at it two different ways.

Yeah Luke presents this dude as He spent everything and squandered it on worthless crap. Oh for sure. Okay, the woman with the problem of blood She spent everything you had on Stuff she thought was not worthless.

She did not intend to squander it on. But she spent all I had on what ended up being worthless crap. Yeah, okay it says she went to every physician she knew and the Bible says she gave all her money to physicians and No one could help her.

Yeah, so He squanders it on Probably a bunch of bullcrap. She squanders it on things she thought she were helpful. Neither of them until later went to Jesus and they both came up empty-handed brokenhearted destitute.

Nothing. So it when you just read that I thought about that They both spent all they had on two totally different lifestyles, but without Jesus they both came up with the end same result for sure for sure so the famine arose in the country and The reason that I think that's important in this passage is not only did it push the son to come to a place where he needed to come to in order to Make the decision to go back home.

But if the famine is arose in the country His father certainly has heard about it and and it's it's covering a lot of people not just him, right? But what does that what does that mean for the father?

In this particular story, right? He says he knows. Yeah, he's aware and he's probably worried about the well-being of this son.

He thinks his son is dead, right? Probably right probably right? He's not an idiot he's the father and he knows that his son is an idiot and is out there squandering his living and It's probably going to die because of the famine because he's not not better prepared.

And I like that because when he comes back and he says, you know in the last verse your brother Was dead and is alive again. You know what? I mean? And that also is another portrayal of not portrayal.

I don't think that's the right word. Representation of us being dead in sin. Yeah. Yeah until we come to the father and he restores us and because the Bible doesn't say we were swimming in sin or we were Wandering and it says we were dead in sin.

That's exactly right. So the son is Very stubborn just like me. I was very stubborn can't still can't be told I think about this. He is broke. He's destitute. He doesn't know what to do. He's in a land that is not his home and he doesn't go back home that hasn't even entered his mind yet.

Because he's so far removed from everything that he grew up in. What does he do? He attaches himself he attaches himself to a citizen to try to get a job and the Citizen has him slopping hogs and he's jealous of the hogs.

And you know less anyone as I've heard some do for say well this dude was so unkind. Oh, it was let him feed the pigs. Just think about this for a moment. It's in the same country means means this dude Hired somebody during that during an economic depression if you want to whatever he hired somebody Of which he already had these pigs.

He probably didn't need him. He hired him in this time period And gave him a job. I wonder how many people were hiring at this point.

There's a famine in the land. How many people were jealous that he got to eat the pig slot, right?

Well, it doesn't say that he ate it and it doesn't say that he was hired.

It just says that he went to work for somebody. Mine says he went he he hired himself out to one of the citizens of That country. All right, that's what mine says.

He longed to eat his fill from the carob pods. The pigs were eating but no one would give him any. Ever heard of a Jewish boy slopping hogs. No, how far do you have to fall, dude? Right, that's pretty low and so isn't that the point that's a good point.

Yeah, the point is that God will put us into a position Whether we like it or not more than likely when we don't Myself well, he got himself into this position. Maybe he did. Yeah, maybe God allowed him to be in that position, correct?

Yeah to teach him that he needed to come back, right? Yeah, there have been many many times in my life as a young adult as a teenager as I as a friggin Full-blown at all. Yes where I needed to Come back home.

I Knew it in my mind. I kept trying to fill the void with Women or I didn't really I didn't do any drugs or alcohol or nothing. So mostly it was just women. I can't can I tell you that surprises me? It surprises a lot of people women and I mean just yeah.

Yeah, it's okay one has their thing. Yeah, I never liked it. I've never been drunk. I've never been high. Well, let me say that again I have taken prescription medicine. That has made me High yeah, and then I quit taking it like when I was when I got my butt whooped and I had to have that Collarbone surgery.

It was a cheap shot. It was it was brutal is what it was. It was kind of awesome. Really? I wish you'd been there I wish I'd been there too. You told that story three times. It gets better story. So He gave me some hydrocodone.

I think is what it was and I took it. He says hey, listen take this before you go to bed. It'll help you sleep. And so I took it and I went to bed just like I was told to do and then this next night I took it and went to bed like I was told to do but on the third night I thought I'm gonna take this pill and finish watching this movie that I love so much.

But towards the end of the movie. I'm just staring at the TV and I am feeling amazing. And I have I was like a totally new feeling for me. And other Brandon goes whoa Like we snapped out of it, you know, the Brandon says this is why people steal their grandmothers pain medication.

Yeah, and I quit taking it. I had three bottles of it three bottles three bottles Forever I'm not lying. I gave it to a buddy of mine. He ate all of it in two weeks. All three bottle you were his drug dealer.

Well, no because there was no exchange of money. It's more like I was his friend that gave him a bunch of drugs.

Pizza argument from her just saying I mean, no, my mom's done that with a couple of her first. What was the movie? The movie was the duelists.

And if you haven't seen it, it's a drama. It's very boring. But I think it has one of the best endings of any film I've ever seen and I love it. It's one of my top five favorite movies, but it is for real boring.

So if anybody wants to watch that's why you had to watch it high. I was like, I you know, I'll just I'll finish this movie and then I'll go to bed. But then towards the end I was like we are so high. It's a so it's a movie during the napoleonic era about two men.

That fight a series of duels over a number of years. I want to say like 10 or 12 years 14 years something like that. They sword duels or gun duels both. Oh, they are some bad shots if they did a bunch of them.

You have to watch the movie to understand they um. It's based on true events. I've never looked them up. So I don't know how I could that is but as a piece of fiction. The movie is amazing. I really like it anyway so going back to um Him being stubborn and having to come to a place where rock bottom.

Yeah, he had to make the decision rock bottom is different for different people. Yeah, and for me It was um, I was tired of I was tired of doing stuff my way. You know, I was so tired of doing stuff my way and my whole life I had been in rebellion against god a rebellion against.

What I knew I needed to do people would ask me if I was a christian and I would say no. Why don't want to do that? And People would ask me. Um. If I was religious and I would say no I think the three Subjects that I never talk about was work.

Uh politics and religion we talk about anything else, but I wouldn't talk about those three things. And I would tell people. They would say well, why aren't you a christian and I would say well i'm not ready to submit myself to the lord.

That was my excuse. I'm like 10 years. I feel like that's an honest answer. I felt like that was the most honest that I could be. Yeah. Without getting into it now. I wouldn't volunteer that information.

But if somebody asked me that's what I would say because it felt like a lie. To say anything else not a lie against god just a lie against myself. That seems kind of arrogant, but that's what I would say.

Yeah, but that's an honest answer.

That well, I have more respect for that answer versus like some other bs answers that i've heard in the past.

Ultimately, that is the root. If somebody knows about god, especially fools that have grown up in church that have rebelled we know.

They just want to do their own thing 100 for sure.

And they'll find any means necessary to justify their poor actions. But eventually you'll find yourself slopping hogs and trying to eat out of the hog trough. And you'll make a decision to do something else which uh, you know our boy ricky he does that here.

And just make sure everyone understands we're in verse 16. He wasn't even allowed to eat the pigs. Yeah, because they needed to. He can't eat pigs because he's jewish. He is literally longing longing to eat.

The slop the pigs are eating that's that's the desperation we're talking about here.

So after he's like envying their food like right.

After he decides to do something about it That's when I think the real beauty happens. He decides to get up and go home for whatever reason right whether his raisins are selfish or whether they're righteous or whatever.

He decides to get up and go home. And when he was yet a long way off The father saw him and ran to him. Now, I don't know anything about the culture of that time. But how would that have been? Viewed by anybody watching that the father Ran out there to the son.

It also said that he felt compassion For his son as he was running out. I think that's an important thing to note.

Yeah, so the father restores him he kills the fatted calf and he Celebrates his long lost dead son's return, right? And that's that's pretty much the story. That's where everybody stops but personally I think it should be the story of the prodigal sons.

Yeah. Because there's two of them. And the older son while he gets mentioned some he doesn't really get the main focus because He wasn't lost. He didn't leave, you know, he stayed. But that's not true.

I don't think that's true. So I wanted to examine that a little bit more because I feel like now in my christian walk even though I had to come to that place that hard love where I Had to make a choice.

I can continue to do things the wrong way my way or I can. I can submit to god and do things the way he wants me to do them. And i'll say that since doing that my life has has been made, um. Has been made to be Exponentially better not easier.

Right, it's still difficult and I still face all kinds of trials mostly the ones that I put on myself, right? But god gives us the strength and the hope to persevere through those issues. Right, right.