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Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ. Based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, "...but we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.".

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome back to No Compromise Radio.

See, do we ever say welcome back? Maybe when you're here? Well, we do when we took about a 30-second pause between shows. Yeah, that's right.

So, we just did that last show, didn't seem to go over so well, but that's all right.

Are you kidding? I think those were our best Arbitron ratings ever.

No, I meant, I thought I did well, but I didn't think you contributed like you usually do. Best Arbitron ratings. Well, sometimes we get the updates on downloads. That's all we can do, but we don't have any Arbitron ratings around here, although it was interesting, Steve, last week we had those visitors on Sunday nights.

How did you find out about the church? No Compromise Radio.

Well, it's really kind of sweeping the nation.

One bristle at a time. I thought after we made those remarks about the show that's on 430 on the station, People to People, that we'd probably get our walking papers. People to people. People are people.

Last time we were talking a little bit about churches, and we get emails literally from across the world, I'm not at a great church, I'd like to be, what do I do in the meantime? So Steve, we're going to continue that theme today, and we're going to try to make penance for our last show, since we didn't think it was up to No Compromise standards.

But after all, I am what I am.

Well, I think the problem started with your first tip, which was hire Charles Spurgeon as your pastor.

I think that was a... Well, I actually, I think I misread the notes as I was talking about that, because I usually do the show with my glasses on. I misread the notes, and what I meant to say was, I meant to say, play a Charles Stanley video in lieu of the sermon.

A Charles Stanley? Yeah. Oh. It wasn't Spurgeon, it was Charles Stanley. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so... By the way, Steve, let's talk about this. When people say to you, I really love Charles Stanley, what do you say to that?

I think he's actually on this radio station too, isn't he? He probably is.

I really love him too. He's a great communicator, super voice. I like to just listen to his cadence and the way he gets his ideas across. My concerns would be twofold. Number one, his theology, which is not the strongest, shall we say.

And then number two, I'd just be like, well, the guy said he'd step down if his marriage ever broke up. It did, and he didn't.

But would you consider Charles Stanley in the camp of evangelicalism, or would you consider him out of the camp? I'd consider him in the camp. Okay. All right.

Well, I just wanted to... He's not the worst. I just... He's not somebody I wouldn't listen to for a couple of reasons. One is, I don't think, obviously, he knows how to run his own household, so how can he run the household of faith?

Right. Well, then you ask a congregational-led church with a megastar, a national, international face, author, writer, effective speaker, should we keep him or should we not? And what do you think? They're going to vote.

They're going to vote, yeah, we want to keep him. Yeah, of course we want to keep him. He's been our pastor for 40-whatever years, or whatever.

I will say that when I was in Atlanta, probably 20 years ago for business, that I decided to go to that church. I think it was First Baptist Church, if I'm not mistaken. And I pretty much was distracted, whatever year it was, I can't remember.

I think it was about 20 years ago. I was distracted, and it was pretty much less than worshipful because of all the cameras. You know, it's just like the studio we have here for No Compromised Video.

Seriously, people want to take pictures of Charles Stanley. Sorry, video cameras.

Oh, I see. Because it's a TV event, so it's all recorded for TV, and so you've got the—it's like going to Saddleback, and they've got all those cameras all around, and people, and it's some kind of video shoot.

So you've got too many cameras, too many people, too much makeup, too much lighting, and so it distracted me, right? There are distractions that I can formulate in my own mind. Oh, see that guy up there in the choir with the robe?

Oh, he just got a new haircut. He looks sharp today. You know, that other lady, she didn't comb her hair today, or whatever. My own distractions. But then it's just exacerbated by the TV production. So it made me think, this is TV first, worship second.

Yeah, and I think you mentioned this before, when he made some kind of mistake while he was talking, he said, can we just roll that back and, you know, take another run at it? You know, and the director said, yeah, go ahead.

Steve, I think one of the reasons why this popped into my mind, just recently, about a month ago, we had a couple visit the church. And I went up to them afterwards, and they didn't have any kids, and they were probably a little younger than I am.

And I said, well, welcome to the church. How'd you find out about the church? And I think it's something like, well, we listen to you on the radio a little bit, and we love you, and we love Charles Stanley.

I'm not kidding. And they're like, oh, this is wonderful. See you next week. And I haven't seen him, Steve. Did you talk to them on the way out? When I got done with them, they were affirming me. They were affirming how I am, what I do.

And then I think that I see you talk to them on the way out, and something happened there.

Yeah, well, I just said, because they said, I don't see any Charles Stanley books on the book table. And I said, we don't sell that swill around here.

Oh, that's it. See, I would have said, the eternal security book that he wrote on page 162, when he says weeping and gnashing of teeth is a place in heaven, we'd probably just tear those pages out. Weeping and gnashing of teeth.

That's what he teaches, because he's so non-Lordship, he's anti-Lordship. You know what? Let's just give fair play here for a second, Steve. We criticized him to some degree. Give me somebody on the radio station, on this particular radio station, that you really like.

Let's promote somebody well. Well, of course, we like John MacArthur. We like R .C. Sproul. I like to listen to Alistair Begg. You know, I think he's a fantastic storyteller. And I mean, I'm always engaged when I listen to him.

I'm trying to think who else I really, really like on the... Lars Larson. Lars Larson. Well, yeah. I like Lars. Yeah, he's theologically very sound.

You know what? I would hate to be ordained again and have Lars Larson ask me questions. He's a smart guy. Somebody goes up to Lars and says, you know what? By the way, this isn't one of those mamby-pamby kind of Baptistic ordinations where you just throw a bunch of guys together and ask a few questions.

Like mine. Kind of. Yeah. I'm just kidding.

This is one of those intense things. Like where maybe somebody will ask about eternal sonship or eternal spireation. Yeah.

Our friend Ted Bigelow, who we've had on the show, I asked Ted to be on Steve's Ordination Council. And the main reason I did that is because I'm kind of a tough guy. Come across as stern, because sometimes I am.

But in comparison to Ted, I seem like a deer, a fawn. And compared to Ted, I'm known as Dorcas, the gazelle, soft.

Now, Ted is a very kind man. Ted is very soft.

Ted ministered to me in such a gracious way when my mother was dying. I'll never forget Ted for that. But Ted asks—he has a great intellect, and he asks some serious questions. Yes, he does.

Like what was one of the questions? He actually asked, without using this wording, he asked about—and your listeners will certainly all understand this—he asked about the eternal spireation of the Spirit.

And again, he didn't use that. He just talked about the eternal sending of the Spirit and asked me to explain it. And I was just like, maybe I should just kind of try to impress Ted by saying, oh, yes, I remember from my seminary days the eternal spireation of the Spirit.

And then I thought, better not to egg Ted on, otherwise we'll be in the really, really.

Deep water. Well, I was sitting right next to Ted, and he had his Nestle Elan 27 Greek text open to John 16, and he was going to talk to you a little bit after that. But then he realized that you fell on the sword, and then he went on to infer in superlapsarianism, so it was fine after that.

Yeah. Yeah, just the really fluffy questions.

That was so—. All right, Steve, let's talk a little bit more about what we were talking about last Sunday—last Sunday, sorry. Not Sunday, last Tuesday. Yeah, what did you talk about last Sunday, by the way?

Just out of curiosity, you teach at Sunday school every week. You do a lot of preaching, too, but Sunday school every week, that's your deal? What have you been teaching?

Yeah, we had a missionary here. Actually, but before that, I've been talking about money, and I'm going to do what my wife calls—it's not really a filler class, I'm stealing something from Sinclair Ferguson.

I've been reading a book about grace, and I'm going to talk about grace this Sunday. Yeah.

Yeah, theft. Do they call you Steve Ramsey for any particular reason around the church?

Well, I'm big on people being good stewards of their finances and really wrestling with those issues because so many people don't, and they don't have a budget or anything else. So yeah, we spent, I think, nine, ten weeks talking about money.

Yeah, but Steve, let's just go straight for the no-compromise radio dope right here. Here's not the dope slap. I know you had to dope slap people in prison, especially. Did you ever have to draw blood while you were in prison?

I don't think I was ever involved in a fight where blood was drawn. Nobody ever hit you in prison? Oh, yeah. Well, they tried to a couple times. And what'd you do? Ducked. Actually, I think early on, I think I was involved in a fight where the inmate did get a little roughed up, but he wouldn't stop fighting.

What do they call those little homemade knives, those little shags or shrugs? Shanks. Shanks, that's right. Yeah, shanks a lot. Is that your doctor's name? Dr. Shank? No, well, that shrank. A little shout out to Mark.

Okay, that's right. I'm sure he's listening. Steve, give us your scoop, your no-compromise scoop on Dave Ramsey. I know we're changing subjects here, but that's all right. It's the radio show. We'll go from one topic to the next in an ADD fashion.

Steve, seriously, a lot of Christians listen to Dave Ramsey. And what kind of pros and cons, warnings would you give us?

I think he is super practical, and when it comes to handling our finances and really doing it There's always a but, listeners. There's always a but. And really doing it in a God-honoring way, I think Dave Ramsey is really right on the money, but his theology, he's good at what he does.

And what he's not really good at is discernment, or as John MacArthur likes to say, discernment. Discernment. Quincy. Which I used to think had to do with dessert, but then I figured out it didn't. But things like he'll quote Albert Schweitzer, who was an absolute heretic, he'll quote Mother Teresa, he'll quote John Maxwell, business guy, business guru who's allegedly a Christian, who knows.

And Steve Covey, who's a Mormon, and he'll just quote different people. But who knows. He'll quote different people, and then he'll ask what kind of animal you are. Are you a beaver? Are you a lion? Are you a whatever?

So there's a certain amount of integration of psychology and all that, and a lot of funny stories. But basically, his principles, they're pretty hard to knock. I mean, when you think about basic things like living on less than what you make.

Now that sounds very commonsensical, but sadly, it's not, and a lot of Christians fail to do that.

Steve, here is my particular take on Dave Ramsey, but you know better than I do. I think I have one of his books or something. I know I have one, but I don't really know what's in it. Here's my take. My take on Dave Ramsey is he's a Christian man, Christian defined by at least what America would use for the term Christianity.

That is mainline, mainstream, main denomination, Lutheran Methodist. You're not a Buddhist. You're not a Hindu. You're not a Muslim. Therefore, you're a Christian, a theist, believing in God, and then having a lot of practical skills and discernment on finances.

Then Dave goes to the Bible to back up his facts, to clothe his advice for the Christian consumer. Whether he's saved or not, obviously I'm not Jesus, but some of the things that he says and does makes me wonder.

Well, I mean, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he probably is a Christian. I'd be surprised if he doesn't go to some kind of Southern Baptist church because he is in Texas.

Maybe a Methodist church. You know what? Maybe. I think I did hear that he went to Thomas Kincaid Baptist Church.

Okay. So, but yeah, I mean, I think that's a fairly accurate description, but he does talk about, you know, honoring the Lord with your money and about giving. And in fact, one of the things he says, one of the reasons to be out of debt and to work heartily towards getting out of debt is so that you can give more to the local church and give more to the ministry, you know, for the furtherance of the gospel.

So I think those are all good and right, you know, ways to think about what the Lord has blessed us with.

Steve, I think the listeners, in light of that, should charge on their credit card the No Compromise Radio Bethlehem Bible Church highlights of Greece, 11-day tour and excursion off to Greece, April 2013.

It's probably about $3 ,3300, and they could go with this. And my advice to get more frequent flyer mileage on their credit card mileage, I have a Southwest card, and so the more I charge, the more mileage I get.

That's really bad.

How many... How many drachmas is that? And do they need to bring an AK -47?

Well they have those on the cruise line already due to the proximity of the Somalian pirates. So they're well-versed in already how to do that. But I'll be down in the belly of the ship with all the other folks right by the luggage department.

Manning the .50 cal. So today on No Compromise Radio, we're just...I think it's turning into potpourri here, Steve. Let's talk about this because I don't think we're going to have time for the other subject.

Why Church Can Feel Boring

Let's talk about people that say church is boring. Now if someone says church is boring, there could be a lot of responses. One, the services could be boring because maybe they have bad preaching that's not about the drama of redemption.

So could the church in fact be boring when people say, my church is boring?

Oh, it absolutely could be. I mean, imagine, you know, the...it's a horse I was looking at. There's a horse outside our studio. Here at the fine Sorry. No, it's up on the hill. I just saw something.

It looked like a rock moving and then I...because it's white and then I realized, no, it's not a rock. It's... It's a horse, of course.

It's the top half. I couldn't really see the head, but... That reminds me of that horse that Vance Havner talked about that was the evangelistic horse. And you would ask the horse, true story, how many testaments there were and he'd stomp his feet two times.

How many commandments there were, he'd stomp his hooves 10 times. And then Vance Havner laughed and when he was asked how many hypocrites there were in the church, he did a dance on all fours.

But I'm from... So... But getting back to boring, I mean, it's entirely possible. Listen, I've listened to some sermons that would...they would put anybody to sleep because, you know, even if they contain Scripture and even if they present the drama that is in Scripture, if it's done poorly and if it's done, you know, if...

Moralistically? Yeah. I mean, there are a lot of ways that the...if the pastor seems bored when he's talking to you, you know, that can be a real problem. So, you know, it could be boring in that sense.

But I think what people typically mean by boring is it's stuffy, you know, but for the most part, what they're really saying is they're not really involved. It's just kind of a little for...and I dare say that most of the people who are bored, their service probably lasts about an hour.

And they go there, they don't really want to go, they do it out of religious commitment or whatever, they feel like they have to. And so if you go there with low expectations and you're not really looking forward to anything, you're not there thinking, I'm going to worship the one who saved me, then I think you might well be bored.

Some people think boredom is, or Steve, I believe that people say they're bored in church because the music isn't peppy enough. They don't feel the spirit translation, they don't feel the bass, guitar, and the drums.

And all that stuff. Who could be motivated by, you know, a church organ? Come on.

Yeah. How much is that church organ that we have there? What do those pipes cost? It's in the millions. It's in the millions. Of drachmas. Steve, sometimes I would say it's a blessing to see sleepy people at the church.

And here's what I mean. We've all been preaching before, we all as pastors have preached before, and we've seen people do in the head nogging, nodding, their noggin is nodding. That's what I meant. Because they had too much eggnog.

Yeah. Their head can't nog, it can nod.

But their noggin was nodding. That's what I was thinking about. Use your noggin, Steve. But here's what I like. I would much rather people go to worship on Sunday, to worship the risen King, even though they had to stay up all the night before because of their child was sick, they had to go to the emergency room, there was some crisis, they couldn't sleep.

But they get up anyway and they say, the King has required my presence for corporate worship, and I will go worship Jesus Christ, even though I didn't sleep at all. Which happens to me quite a bit on Saturday nights.

It's funny, isn't it? How that happens. The pastors, you know, the sleeping problems happen only on Saturday nights. And then they show up and they're kind of sleepy. That's so much better to me than if people go, well, I didn't really get much sleep last night.

I think I'll just sleep in and I'll listen to a John Piper sermon later. So I commend the sleepy people if it's done for the right reasons. Well, you know, I can't...

Here's if I may boast for just a minute, because it really wasn't me. I just kind of, when I was working on the sheriff's department, working graveyard, you know, going to seminary and everything else, I would work Saturday night from 10 at night till six in the morning.

I would come home, eat breakfast, drink a couple of cups of coffee, and we would go to church. And I'd look around while John MacArthur is preaching, people are falling asleep. And I just find myself going, wait a minute, I was up all night.

Steve, let me be a little more biblical because you're supposed to have other people boast of you. So let me boast of you for a second. Oh, thank you. One time I remember, I think I was actually preaching and you were visiting the church.

I don't think you were associate senior editor, pastorette yet. And you came to the church and you were so tired because you didn't sleep the night before. You stood up in the back of the church just to make sure you could stay engaged.

Was that here or was that at Grace Church?

Might have been at Grace Church. Oh, yeah, it was in the fellowship group, I think. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Well, that was Bill Shannon teaching. Yeah. That explains it. No. Yeah, but I mean, if you think I have been forgiven of all my sins, everything I've ever done and you take honest inventory and you go, I can even count that high to figure out how many sins I've committed.

And you think that God, I'm there to worship that God and serve the people who worship that same God. How can you fall asleep? How can that be? Well, you know, it just kind of doesn't move me. It doesn't move you that every lie you've ever told, every deception you've ever done, all the things that you've done in your life that were sinful, that fell sharp.

And haven't done. Right. And that you failed to love your neighbor as yourself, failed to worship God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. You stand condemned before God, but for the finished perfect work of Christ.

And you're like, yeah, this is all kind of boring to me. Then I think you need to examine yourself. I think you need to find out what you're really all about.

Consumerism, Doctrine, and the Drama of Worship

Steve, we are people who are very easily influenced. And once we are influenced by the culture of consumerism, and we are consumers and we like this brand, we don't like that brand, we go to this store, we don't go to that store, we buy this particular product, we avoid that product.

Once we start thinking about worship services like that and turn worship inside out, then to me that's where the problem starts. If you're really regenerative and you struggle with these issues, I would ask you, are you influenced by consumerism?

Because if you go to a church and then say, I didn't like that song, I like these other ones better, I like that verse better, why didn't he read this particular psalm? Why is he reading Habakkuk chapter two with all that stuff in there?

I wouldn't have done that. I want something peppier. I want, I want, I want.

That's just consumerism. This is what I want. How about this? Was God glorified? Was Christ magnified? Were the scriptures held up high and, you know, did I come away either convicted or.

Illumined by the word of God? Dorothy Sayers died in 1957 and she was an insightful lady. And Steve, I think you've heard this quote before, but it is brilliant. Official Christianity of late years has been having what is known as bad press.

We are constantly assured that the churches are empty because preachers insist too much upon doctrine, dull dogma, as people call it. The fact is the precise opposite. It is the neglect of dogma that makes for dullness.

So stop right there just for a second. Sometimes I think churches are boring because they aren't talking about doctrine. It's just all about us and we've got to get through the next week. Five pick-me-ups on Monday morning blues.

Yeah. I mean, what kind of intrigues you, what engages you more, you know, thinking about five ways to be a better neighbor or five ways that God is sovereign? Five ways that, you know, I mean, just truths about God where you just contemplate the magnificence and the glory and the immenseness of God.

I'm with you. Sayers goes on to say the Christian faith is the most exciting drama that ever staggered the imagination of man. The dogma is the drama. This is the dogma we find so dull. This terrifying drama of which God is the victim and the hero.

If this is dull, then what in heaven's name is worthy to be called exciting? And then she goes on to say the people that crucified Jesus, they thought a lot about him, but they never thought of him as boring.

Ever.

Jesus is boring. I mean, just think of all the schemes and plots and all the tricks and traps and everything that they, you know, that they set for him. Yeah, it was never boring.

I think Sunday helps for lots of reasons, Steve. One is, it helps reset my mind. It reboots my mind to realize what is important, what is full of drama, and what isn't. We would go, well, you know, I just watched the new Avengers movie.

Well, I haven't seen it, and maybe I will. But if that is drama times 10, then I think let's go back to church on Sunday to worship so we understand what real drama is. And then we say, that's just a thing to go occupy your mind for an hour and a half and go knock yourself out.

But it means nothing.

I was, I'm not a high church guy, but I was at R .C. Sproul's church a few years ago, and he, you know, before the service, you just hear his voice and talking about putting off all our worldly concerns.

And I think that is the way we need to approach church.

No Compromise Radio, info at nocompromiseradio .com. We'll see you next Tuesday with Pastor Steve Cooley. God bless.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's Word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.

The thoughts and opinions expressed on No Compromise Radio do not necessarily reflect those of WVNE, its staff or management.