Cultish: The Cosmic Christ of the New Age (W/Steven Bancarz)

The New Age Background and Steven Bancarz’s Testimony

Alright, welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish Entering the kingdom of the cults. My name is Jeremiah Roberts. I am one of the co-hosts here as Always, I'm here the Andrew the supersuit the super sleuth of the show.

How are you man? I'm feeling blessed.

We've got a very awesome guest with us in the studio, even though I don't even feel like he's a guest really I just feel like he's Steven dude. He's our friend.

He's actually every now and then he pretty much hosts the show and we get to be.

This.

Yeah, I love it so I am yeah, I'm super excited for this episode. This is the fourth time dude. You've been on which is crazy. Yeah, and do you like the improvements? I mean, we've got the whole we got this giant sort of like curtain going on the lights.

It feels more.

I do cinematic you. I had to like check my heart. I was sensing like covetousness like Trying to creep in there. Yeah, like lord. This is awesome. So yeah, I've been making some upgrades. That's cool.

Yeah, well man, this is crazy because I mean it's funny too you think about the current circumstance the current circumstances in the world right now and. It's just funny because like the last time that you were here.

We were prepping for the episode and that was right when Trump declared this day of emergency and everyone started panic buying toilet papers flying off the shelves. At that time I was working at Costco and I had checked my phone.

Almost like this blockbuster line going around the building of people trying to just throw everything they could in their shopping cart and. Do you remember Melissa was trying to get home and she wasn't even sure she's gonna get a plane ride home.

No Melissa, she'll be very listening to this. So you remember that and glad you made it home. But it's crazy because here we are now the second time that you're recording. We're recording on the eve of the 2020 election.

So, yeah, it's just funny like we're both times we're like on the eve of we don't know what's like beyond the veil.

The first time was the eve of An international pandemic and this time it's the eve of civil war. That's right. See what's gonna happen but Yeah, I mean I think there's I'm hoping for you know Yes, God's mercy God's mercy and grace on this country that we can, you know proclaim the gospel freely and boldly and not be you know Snuffled out by policy.

So, you know, I like to think of it like I don't want to start talking politics too much we're like I like to think of in terms of who will best allow us to Fulfill the Great Commission and allow Christians to be Christians in the world.

Amen that's my first and the second is like who best fits the qualification of Romans 13 to punish what God calls evil and to reward what God calls good. And those are really my only two qualifications.

In terms of like character and so forth that can be debated and back and forth. But anyway, yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, we're like we don't know what to expect like you were saying from your hotel room where you're staying right now because The place you're staying had some flooding and like we're in the hotel room he's like he's like man, it's gonna be crazy because you we have like a Perfect view of where rioting happened in Tempe.

Oh wow months ago. Yeah. Yeah, and so we're thinking like man on the third It's they're gonna be like we don't know what to expect. And we didn't know what to expect last time either. We were like we have no idea where this is going.

I know we're gonna be viewing it from our suite. It's like with a bunch of popcorn. It's like watching the chaos unfold.

Right by Tempe Town Lake. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Wow, but um, so just it's an Elsa I just I've always said before it is this whole years been interesting where usually you know. The place where I get to talk about cultish stuff. But right now it feels like the whole world has gone mad and the whole world is cultish.

But now the exact opposite we come in here and it feels relatively normal. That's right. You go outside and it's crazy and you have people, you know walking in mass all by themselves when it's 116 degrees when they're not in.

They're not in close proximity to anyone and it's just all that being said not to give it. It's just interesting seeing that but it just feels normal to be in here. Anyway, so Steven you just people know about if people never met you before.

I know you've got the website reasonsforjesus .com. You had one of the highest profile. You you really had a huge huge following and influence in the New Age you had. Just give him a quick two-minute synopsis of your story just in case a lot of people are familiar with you.

Right just in case anyone anyone slips around the cracks. I don't want to leave them out of the loop just about your story. Give him like two minutes real quick. Sure.

Yeah born and raised Christian. Fell away into new ageism through the topic of ancient astronaut theory the program ancient aliens this idea that we've been visited in The past by extraterrestrials who they mistook for being gods coming down from the sky and chariots of fire and so forth.

This led me down a rabbit hole into channeled material or contact material given by these ETS which led to meditation. Astral projection lucid dreaming and so forth. I began teaching this stuff online.

Really my little brother's friends kept asking me all these questions that had to do with like the chakras and Reiki and the pineal gland. And I made a Facebook page for them within a year and a half.

It grew to 500 ,000 followers. Launched a website in January 2014. Started getting millions and millions of views a month 40 grand a month and ad revenue is pretty crazy website amassed over a hundred million views and about a year and a half.

People are really searching like they're interested in these topics. Oh, yeah, like life after death and spiritual reality and so forth. And then yeah, I encountered Jesus his manifest presence. Just a supernatural encounter with him.

I didn't see him visually but he flooded me with his presence, right? And that is when I realized oh my gosh. Everything I've been teaching people is set up to keep me to keep them away from the born-again experience.

I just had to keep people away from salvation by grace through faith in Jesus. Repented online told everyone new age is a scam at best. It's wrong at worst. It's demonic. A lot of it is demonic and Yeah, I've been in Christian ministry the last five years living at home in my parents basement, which I'm getting sick of.

So I love being here in Arizona though, but yeah, so today we're gonna be talking about really the core Christology of New Age spirituality. Mm-hmm. So there's different variants like different things people will say about Jesus.

You'll have like people say Jesus is kind of a metaphor for like the Kundalini serpent traveling up a person's spine and awakening their crown chakra and Jesus was like the serpent in the Old Testament lifted up people would look upon the serpent on the cross and they'd receive healing.

So that's more of a really minority fringe view. You just have some who would say Jesus is an alien or was an extraterrestrial. The funniest I've heard is Jesus was a mushroom like he was a psilocybin mushroom and the whole story of his ministry is a story about like accessing higher consciousness through psilocybin.

And you also have Jesus of Theosophy which was started by Helena Blavatsky and Alice Bailey was her successor and Benjamin Cream was really her successor. Which is this idea that you have Jesus who was incarnate as just a man.

Like you and me and then you have the Christ who is a different entity named Maitreya and Maitreya or the Christ overshadowed Jesus. Just like Maitreya overshadowed and kind of utilized other people throughout history as kind of like a tool.

And so Jesus and the Christ are two different Persons two different spirit beings.

Right.

And we're awaiting the second coming of Maitreya or the final coming of Maitreya or the Christ who's gonna finally announce himself and reveal himself to the world, but Jesus is secondary to the Christ in Theosophy, but.

The primary doctrine which is absolutely dominant the most pervasive is that of Christ consciousness, right? And this is absolutely everywhere. You know, this is Jim Carrey. This is Russell Brand. This is Oprah Winfrey Chopra Tolley Wayne Dyer, Barbara Marx Hubbard Neil Donald Walsh even Richard Rohr.

Richard Rohr and Richard war like hundreds. The tens of millions of books have been sold teaching people this doctrine of Christ consciousness. It's a staple.

Yeah.

If there could be said like New Age ism there is this element of subjectivity where you're given permission to kind of pick and choose what elements of You know Buddhism you want to draw from or Hinduism you want to draw from or Western Gnosticism you want to draw from but if there could be something called a staple staples would be pantheism, right which acts as the theological and philosophical bedrock of the doctrine of Christ consciousness and then Christ consciousness itself would be another staple and.

So we're gonna cover both of those because you have to cover pantheism necessarily right to object to Christ consciousness. But this is what we're gonna be talking about today because it is extremely pervasive and like you said Richard Rohr is teaching this he has a whole book on it called the universal Christ, right this idea that Christ is a reference to the divine within all things right, so Christ refers to our innermost spiritual divine nature and Jesus is someone who tapped into that.

Exhibited it lived from it and He became Christ by virtue of the fact that he exhibited the Christ nature within him. Which is a synonym for the divine nature within all things, right? So we're gonna flesh this out a little bit and get more into it.

But like you said, it's even leaking its way into the church. It is Richard Rohr would be he's not a Christian. I mean, he's going. I don't want to be mean he's not even close to being saved, right? But I've also heard a worship leader very.

You know prominent worship leader to who are prominent within like kind of mainstream evangelical worship who have talked about Christ consciousness. And he exhibited, you know. The consciousness that um, you know of deity that you know.

We're supposed to exhibit and it taps into this it really taps into Eastern mysticism its roots come from Eastern philosophy and Hinduism and we're gonna get into that as well. But this is I would say by far the most pervasive view of Jesus taught in New Age spirituality.

I believed it wholeheartedly. I taught it and so it'll be good to tackle this. Head on and just put the nail in the coffin bro. Come at it from every single angle so that people are without a doubt positive that this is Not even close to the truth.

Christ Consciousness, Pantheism, and the Impersonal Self

Yeah. Yeah, in fact, um, and just just to also echo like the very beginning we we played a dialogue. From from it's an old Walter Martin video but in it like the reason why the reason why I played that quote is well because I again the New Age is a very Huge broad broad spectrum of thought and philosophy when it comes down.

Especially what is as far as when you want to actually reach someone who's in the New Age in the same way when you talk? To a cultist you want to you want to focus in on the essentials and Primarily who is Jesus.

Because I'm again I think that in the same way if you're talking to someone who's Mormon or LDS it can go into a lot of Unnecessary rabbit trails if the whole purpose is just evangelism. We're trying to reach them and and like I said with the goal our goal in this podcast I mean, we're not neutral.

We haven't been neutral since the very beginning a cultish our goal is to give the trope of the true gospel of Jesus to everyone in the kingdom of the cults and Specifically in the New Age and I think there is a level of importance to stick with the essentials.

So when it comes down to someone who's in the New Age you have to get focus in what do you think about Jesus? That that's as Walter Martin said, that's really where it's all at. And that's something you have to consider you would agree as well to when talking with someone who's in the New Age.

You've had a lot of interactions, especially since you left the New Age.

Yeah, I would say that pretty much every other topic that New Agers want to talk about and feel like to talk about maybe some are listening. I would encourage them to consider that maybe these are just deterrents and red herrings from the actual issue, which is That we don't want to get too close to the person of Jesus because he knows he reflects that we know He reflects the true God and we don't want to be morally accountable to him and we don't want you know The skeletons and our conscience being confronted.

Hmm, you know Jesus says the world hates me because I testify of it that its works are evil and Romans 1 says it's not our problem isn't that we don't know God. It's that we don't acknowledge God, right?

We suppress the truth and unrighteousness. So when it comes to talking about New Age ism with people who are in the New Age It is most advantageous to stay focused on the person and work of Jesus. Yeah, like when Jesus asked Peter who do you say I am right because there's all these other issues but we want to like we want to give The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.

Right. We want to stick to the Word of God and we as much as we can and we want to stick to that. Which the Holy Spirit has wrought forth in the God-breathed scriptures, right? And if we're talking if we're talking in scripture and keeping keeping things circulating Around what Jesus said about himself when he says my words are spirit and my words are life like it cuts.

It cuts like a knife. Right, and so yeah, who do you say I'm do you agree with Jesus in John 10 45 when he says I came to give my Life as a ransom for many that's his purpose. Mm-hmm. I lay down my life For my sheep, right?

I came to give my life as a ransom for many, right? So as Christians we want our if there's one thing our wheel house wheel house should be it should be the person work of Jesus Amen, and we only we don't need to deviate from that very much if at all when talking with New Agers.

Because I believe it's ultimately a matter of the heart and matter of the conscience not a matter of philosophy. Yeah, and Let's just stick to the person and work of Jesus, you know, and let's make sure we have a response prepared for.

These views that have become really really dominant lately. Yeah, especially yeah, especially important to you because not only is that it's there's a we've talked about it if you look if you want to know about some of the Statistics as far as the the just the explosion of New Age and and thought of just Spirituality just throughout our culture and I think you're gonna see especially Over the next year or two, especially going especially given the need the cultural climate especially, you know.

Considering that we're on the eve of this election. So I think you're gonna definitely see that even more predominantly over the next, you know, three to four years but you know, that's just gonna be a big fact, but you know, even in the church like we mentioned Richard Rohr and You know the Enneagram and in the origin of that in fact, you know, depending on when we have this episode being released We'll have had our episodes released for shuffling shuffling things around right now.

But there the idea of Christ consciousness and and sort of this cosmic Christ you're seeing it being an infiltrated. So it's very interesting because one of my favorite Musical bands was a group called page C XVI.

Which they do a lot of really cool him renditions and they've done a really good job, but I remember just recently I Listened to one of her hymns that she did like a self-written him and there's just something it was like my spidey sense went off.

So in the lyrics of this song. You know, it was almost I think I might have been like on a Pandora playlist or something. It just went to one of the song that she wrote and these this is the lyrics and just tell me if there's anything.

That is a kind of off here, right? It says father. Please forgive us for inconsistent selfish wounded ways. Spirit keep us close to your heart change us make us teach us loving grace cosmic Christ your glory unfolds in each body breathing mercies in and again, this is.

This is just later on in the this the lyrics of the song. It says mother keep us tender to your words of wisdom guiding us in truth spirit. Keep us close to your breath breath laying in your bosom. May we rest cosmic Christ is now unfolding in each body mending brokenness in each body.

Yes, so that's really.

Perfect transition into How we really need to tackle this right, which is how? It really comes down to ontology, right? Ontology is where that references the study of being right. So what is a thing or a person by nature?

That's a reference to their ontology. Yes, right. So in the New Age movement, we are ontologically God. We are ontologically divine and the There was a person named Jesus who was called, you know, the Christ or a Christ, but then there's like the field of universal consciousness that undergirds the universe.

Which can be called the cosmic Christ or God consciousness or Brahman which acts as the ground being at the ground of being. Out of which all fundamental particles and forces in the universe emanate and it permeates all of creation and acts as the substance of all of creation and this is what the reference thing when they say The cosmic Christ is this divine force that's fundamental to the universe Fundamental to nature that exists intrinsically within all things and this is where we need to make a distinction in Talking about Christ consciousness what they're actually what they really mean what they're referencing.

So we would understand they have this weird way of understanding The self like the personal self. They would say there's the lowercase s self and the uppercase s Self, so there's the ego the ego or the egoic self which in New Age spirituality The egoic self to the true self is what a Halloween mask would be to a human face, right?

It's just a temporary form and Just almost like a Costume the true self is really wearing. So if I were to ask either of you like Andrew, who are you? You're gonna give me a list of ideas Words thought forms you're gonna tell me about your history your personality.

Maybe your occupation all of these Descriptions you're giving me are wrapped up in form and idea. Mm-hmm. These are all just plays within consciousness these are just forms thought forms within consciousness, which is Primordial right and primary to that which emerges in consciousness, right?

So we have the ego which is this personal sense of I and it's wrapped up in form and history and labels and Deepak Chopra Describes it as the ego is not who you really are. The ego is your self-image.

It is your social mask. It is the role you are playing. Krishnamurti says that the self the me the ego is The entity that identifies itself as being separate from one another so it's the personal sense of I the personal sense of self wrapped up in history and You know ideas we have about ourselves and it's distinct.

We have this idea that it's distinct from other people and that's the egoic self.

Let me ask you a question then because it what it sounds like to me in a sense is like Everybody has to deal with something in some type of philosophical Foundation for sin so sin would be separation from God.

But in this sense, it sounds like the ego is the separation from divine consciousness. So what's the point of ego?

That's right. The point of ego. That's a good question people would have different answers about that but The most common I would understand when I was in the new age room was the purpose of the ego. Was to a help us function in the world like it's a tool we can use and pick up to kind of function.

So we're not just so spaced out. We're of no earthly good but it's also a way in which this field of consciousness can experience itself and Learn about itself from different point and collect data.

About.

Infinity from different points of view so it's for the purpose of diversity of experience but like you said It's ultimately Just kind of superfluous right to what's really going on in our true nature in our true self and in Christianity we're separated relationally from God through sin and Ontologically from God and we're gonna get into that but in the new age movement we're ontologically identical to God, which is just a title given to this field of consciousness, which we call Brahman and We're only separated from God Relationally through self-ignorance, right?

Our problem isn't that we're wicked and in need of forgiveness. Our problem is that we're ignorant and we lack wisdom and insight into our true divine nature. Right, and so the goal of new age spirituality is enlightenment to become aware of the true nature of reality the true nature of the self.

So that we can move from ego consciousness into relationship with the true self the capital S self. Which would be pure consciousness or pure awareness, right? So a catchphrase in new age spirituality that Eckhart Tolle will often use is you were not your mind, right?

You are not your mind. You can observe the content of your mind, right? Right. So if I can observe it, it's not me. So I'm not that which emerges in my emotions or my mind. I'm the awareness behind it and He would say that awareness behind it is ultimately not personal to me.

It's kind of like it's our awareness. It's a field that percolates up through our nervous system and into our brain. But it's ultimately something that we kind of share in common this Spaciousness and this awareness and this consciousness which comes from the field of consciousness.

Mm-hmm, right lying at the foundations of nature consciousness is Fundamental to the universe in the way that space time matter and energy is and the idea here Is that the true self is consciousness itself?

It's pure consciousness. So what we could describe this as I'll let you ask a question, but here's a perfect way to encapsulate this this is by Someone I used to listen to and study when I was a new age spirituality.

His name is Emmett Goswami. He was a professor of theoretical physics at the University of Oregon for 30 years. And here's what he says, right? So the new paradigm Posits a monism. Monism comes from the word monad, which means it refers to this idea in philosophy of like this irreducible Single element or particle that everything can ultimately be reduced down to one thing.

Okay, right. So the monad of reality would be more smart. Yeah that which is irreducible. Okay, right and now which is irreducible. The monad is consciousness, right. The new paradigm posits a monism based on the primacy of consciousness that consciousness Variously called spirit God and Brahman and not matter is the ground of all being it is a monism of a consciousness That is unitive and transcendent, but one that becomes many in a sentient beings such as us We are that consciousness, right?

So there's this universal field of consciousness laying at the foundation of nature which Hindus would call Brahman. And it permeates everything in creation gives rise to everything in creation. Everything create in creation emanates out of it including us including our sense of self.

And so everything can ultimately reduced down to that field of consciousness and that's our identity Brahman, right? So the personal self is Brahman. Atman's what Hindus would call it the Atman the inner self the personal self is ultimately Yeah, Brahman this impersonal force impersonal field of consciousness and that is the true self.

That's the capital S and that self in me is ultimately the self in you. There's only one being here.

So so it's interesting what I'm thinking about right now is that it's not necessarily Christ consciousness really it's like Christ is just the central figure that they need to deal with so they name it that.

When you're talking in terms of the true self, it reminds me of when we did the episodes on the Enneagram. Where there's nine points and it's to discover your true self. That's the exact words that they use if I think it was GI Gertrude who said if you use it correctly I could meet I could.

You can see the nine faces of God essentially through it and That's what it is though. It's this esoteric knowledge. That's outside of material reality. That can connect you with something at a deeper a deeper level, right?

But my question is is for consciousness. Where does where is perception involved in that in the sense of a rock a rock has being? In a sense and especially with Brahman it all emanates from this one consciousness.

But what's the perception of a rock and what's its influence to Brahman in a sense? Does that does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely. Now they would say that a rock is just as much God as I am or you are. So everything is irreducibly God and intrinsically God and so this table in front of us is God just as much as The Sun is the moon is just as much as animals are human beings are any Extraterrestrial race that may or may not exist in their worldview would also be just as equally God.

So we're talking about and since we're talking about an impersonal reality, right? We're not talking about a personal creator that has manifested himself In and as all things we're talking about an impersonal field of consciousness now how you even describe consciousness without bringing any sense of individuated mental states in that like we're just talking about like consciousness apart from any mind or any brain and any sense of like Individuality it just becomes so abstract.

But they'll say that this field of consciousness makes up the the being of the rock though. The rock doesn't have a nervous system Complex enough to actually facilitate the consciousness that is percolating up and making it up.

So our nervous system is really developed. So this field of consciousness is able to kind of like percolate up through a nervous system and it's being expressed through our brains. Right, but the ultimate self that is behind our nervous system and our experience of perception is the same self that makes up the being and The ontological grounding of that rock, right?

And so they'll use phrases like we are all God experiencing itself or there or there's only one of us here.

Wow, so that God that impersonal beings not omniscient by any means because it's constantly learning new things.

Yeah, it's knowledge. Would be. You'd be growing in knowledge. And so far as it's learning new data points through experience expressed in different individuated points of consciousness. So it wouldn't be omniscient.

It would be growing in knowledge. Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah, and so like one of the things that we're doing in here is that we're kind of this is we're kind of laying down and Defining terms right kind of laying a foundation. So you kind of know. Though there's a language barrier in many times.

So in the same way when a cultist use Christ or says Jesus they mean something fundamentally different Than what we mean as Christians we use the same thing we use the same terms or languages language barrier.

So in the same way we wanted to be able to understand that. So when the new when a new age is talking about the ego or the true self. We like I said, we want to understand. We want to make sure that you understand what they actually mean by that and that'll hopefully be a better means to communicate with them.

But what I also want to do too is to help help you also understand just the mindset of What the new wagers thinking through what they're for what their vantage point is as they're saying these particular things.

So Steven as you know, usually in someone who's in the new age, they're very Experiential they really their authority is experience. And so what kind of caught my mind when you're kind of laying out this.

This this guide is we're kind of going through it as far as this discussion goes. Is that you know when you're talking about from experiential standpoint about the ego being an illusion? But the idea is to let go of the ego and to tap until tap into this field of consciousness.

Which ultimately is an impersonal force? But from an experiential standpoint it would seem strange because it seems like it would be a struggle for the new age because they're the. You know a big a lot of people get into the new age because they want they're looking for like true identity.

They're wanting to find a real authentic sense of self. But it seems to me you it would be conflicted because while you're trying to find a unique identity. You're trying to find it in the unique in your own personhood, but that personhood is an illusion.

How do you? Hey, it seems there be conflict between trying to find your personhood and ultimately into something that's impersonal. That's right.

No, there is conflict so we would say there's kind of like the fast food version of new age spirituality, which is I'm trying to self-actualize or Self-discover and what they really what they mean at sort of like a neophyte stage of new age ism is I'm trying to find out How I truly feel about things how I truly see the world who I am in my personality.

Apart from the influence of my parents or societal expectation I want to know who Andrew is and Steven is and Jeremiah is in and of themselves apart from Programming and apart from fear and apart from Boundaries being put on me and enforced on me by society so what they're talking about there is I want to discover who I truly am as a person and discover my authentic self, but then Actual new age ism rips the rug out from under them, right?

Because that whole process is vanity. It's just an exercise in futility because in order to really achieve enlightenment and really access Higher consciousness and fulfill your actual purpose in life.

You have to let go of all personal sense of identity. You have to realize that the personal sense of identity you have and you're looking for that's just a mask. The capital S self is wearing for a temporary period of time and you have to move past this.

Striving for individual meaning an individual purpose an individual fulfillment and for love or creativity or Offering value to people they're feeling. We have to move past all of that and realize. All those things are just plays and consciousness right and but there are things that emerge in your mind emerge in your energy energy field and Beneath all of that is this dimension of pure awareness that which can observe that without putting judgment and label on it.

And they'll practice mindfulness as a way to kind of position themselves as that which is beyond mind. Beyond personal so you can you can observe in yourself. I I sense this craving this need of mine is bubbling up to the surface, right a neophyte.

New ager would say oh, that's interesting. I want to go find fulfillment in that and follow my bliss, right? Right a more refined new ager would say well, I see that emerging. That's not me. I'm the awareness that sees that which is emerging and that awareness is plugged into the universal consciousness at the foundation of the universe and that's the universal self that's me getting closer to the universal self and to access that state of Consciousness pure awareness would be to access what they would call higher consciousness or Moksha as Hindus would call it.

Yeah, just realize all is God and God is all right. It would be called God consciousness or Unity consciousness, right? So that is the goal of new ageism of Eastern mysticism. But I had a personal sort of like casual over there's thinking I just want to be the best version of myself.

But then the new age movement really comes in. It's like that that's an exercise in futility there the real self the real you is Impersonal formless Consciousness and Everything else is just a mask that you're wearing temp.

The universe right is wearing temporarily, but it would be cool to hear I want to hear you guys comments on that and then it'd be really cool to Before we move on to addressing this these worldview claims From the Bible before we actually introduce Christ consciousness.

It would be cool to hear Walter Martin Encapsulates this perfectly in his book on on the new age cult there, but I'd like to hear you guys feedback on that.

So first I was thinking like the neophyte New ager essentially it's almost like the first step because first you have to be aware of that your shortcomings In order to not exercise and futility so you can know what to conquer.

And it sounds like the new age just gives a different different definitional distinctions to trying to achieve enlightenment or nirvana like the denial of the self and all of Those struggles. But what was making me think about in a weirder level was the fact that it sounds like almost Like artificial intelligence like this collective unconscious or consciousness in itself is a form of artificial intelligence.

That's always learning learning something new through experience. But trying to plug into that is trying to get into that collective soup that collective mind. It's almost like thinking that I can see people who hold this worldview almost getting to the point to where they think that they're living in a simulation.

Right and that they're just plugged into this artificial intelligence. Is that something that people hold to you when they get really deep into the rabbit hole? I'm going off in a weird little area, but I think it's really interesting to think about they do.

They'll say that there's a whole book on this topic called the holographic universe by someone in Michael Talbot I used to read it and it does plug into this idea that consciousness is a field that lies at the fundamental you know layers of nature the most fundamental layer of nature and it will draw from certain anomalies and Quantum mechanics and use quantum notation.

Okay, such as the observer effect, which I'll talk about real quickly so the observer effect is this idea in quantum mechanics, so you know molecules are made out of atoms atoms are made out of Electrons protons and neutrons and they're made up of quarks and so forth.

But what you can do is you can isolate certain particles from an atom such as an electron and experiment with it so they'll isolate an Electron for example, it's called the double slit experiment and basically they shoot it through like this metal grating.