Cultish: The Beatles & Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

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01:23

Welcome back ladies and gentlemen to cultish entering the kingdom of the cults My name is jeremiah roberts one of the co -hosts here

01:29

Uh, I am back. Uh, andrew the super stuff of the show is coming to us live from his super secret headquarters up in utah

01:36

Uh, we are going to be talking about we're talking about hinduism. We are going to be talking about Beatlemania the infiltrations of the beatles here.

01:45

We are ringo star George harrison paul mccartney. Here we are. It's beatlemania

01:51

Um, yeah, so we're gonna be it's very interesting Uh, this is something i've always been very intrigued by was the

01:58

Most prominent music group in the 1960s that really came on the forefront. They really changed the culture in many different ways

02:04

Uh, we were was the beatles. They they they revolutionized music just the popularity of it

02:10

But along with the beatles came, uh a worldview that was imported To the west by way, uh from east to west so i'm just very curious

02:20

We are here with uh, sandeep. You are you grew up in india. You're a former hindu Uh, you came to christ out of hinduism.

02:29

So you have a very unique perspective. So let's let's just jump into it the beatles Uh, what role did they play in all of this?

02:37

Let's just jump right into it Yeah Uh, um, I just like to say this before hinduism started to come inside the west

02:46

Uh, the beat is where when 1960s, I believe uh There was a person called swami vivekananda.

02:53

He came to the uh, he came to the u .s around 1890s, uh around that time, uh, he went to the uh, um

03:03

Religion a world religion parliament, which was organized In chicago, so people from all over the world and all different faiths.

03:14

They came in chicago in 1980 Uh, uh, sorry in 1893, I believe i'm not wrong

03:20

Yeah, and swami vivekananda He was he's a hindu monk, uh, very well known very well known he

03:28

When he stood in that parliament, he said I welcome The mother of all religion.

03:34

He started his speech like that So in a there's a common belief that hinduism is the oldest and that's why the beatles

03:43

I believe when they met uh um the yogi mahesh yogi, you know uh, mahindra yogi, uh, and He invited them to india

03:55

And they went to india. They I read uh that they even Uh read few scriptures few texts.

04:03

I don't know what scriptures exactly they let they read And what actually what verses they read but right?

04:10

Uh, they went to the place called rishikesh And that's the heart center yoga capital in in india the india

04:18

Rishikesh is the yoga capital in india and the world's yoga capital. Yeah so, uh as we know the george harrison

04:26

Uh, he was very much into it. Uh, uh, john lennon also. Yeah, uh, they even uh, harrison even uh

04:36

Composed a dedicated a song to krishna my sweet lord. Yeah, uh krishna and um

04:42

Rama, yeah Well, even like in that song And you know the song

04:47

I mean sound I think it was on the guardians of the galaxy 2 soundtrack. He says hallelujah Yeah, he well, he says hallelujah in one in one chorus the very next one.

04:56

There's a chorus This is hari krishna. So it's almost like there's this implying like hey Christianity the christian worldview and and hari krishna.

05:06

This is compatible. We're all on the same team. We're all wearing the same jersey um, yeah, what it's very compelling it was just very fascinating in hindsight, uh to see

05:16

That depicted because I mean prior to beetlemania and the beetles, you know, the beetle invasion as far as you want to call it

05:22

You know there that's not really something that was very prominent even at all in western thinking Yeah, and around that time the hippie movement also started.

05:31

Yeah, if you remember the hippies, you know Mostly they used to dress up like the indian clothing, you know the saffron kind of clothing, you know, um, so, um, well, uh,

05:44

The first question I had when I uh got to know about the my sweet, uh lord the thing, you know, uh harrison tried to maybe um tell to the world that hallelujah and uh,

05:59

Krishna and rama all are the same thing christianity is and he he's actually motive he says

06:05

Uh that he's actually motive behind that song Was he wanted to tell the world that there is a lot of similarities

06:13

But maybe he was told that by mahesh yogi who was his guru um, and and mahesh yogi george harrison and lennon were were the most to like the closest

06:25

Uh to mahesh the guru who actually, you know took the beatles to many places actually in other lands, uh where mahesh

06:34

Yogi was giving spiritual session then with him. He they they went to uh india

06:39

You know stayed there for a couple of months. I believe I learned hinduism, you know thought that they they

06:47

Maybe harrison thought he he knows everything about hinduism But i'm sure mahesh didn't give him the vedas or the upanishads

06:55

Uh, or the puranas which talks about the sin of the gods Uh, but again, who is this krishna?

07:02

Who is this rama? You know, uh, that that's the question Who are these gods you you're taking a name?

07:10

Uh, you're you're right making their songs. It shows that you're very devoted but again, uh was krishna

07:19

Same as jesus that what he tries to do. He says hallelujah in that song uh, which is a christian way of saying, you know, praise the lord, but um, which which lord are you praising, you know

07:32

Yeah, and so even like to and maybe like as a former hindu

07:38

Um, and it's just always interesting the worldview that's being depicted and we and again If you want to see the full episode you want to definitely check out sandeep's testimony full testimony we have links here in the description, but and even when you look at uh

07:50

John lennon and you look at him at and you look at uh, imagine You know where he says like imagine there's no heaven

07:57

Imagine, you know above us only sky and you just look at the language that's being articulated

08:02

And kind of like that sort of nihilism Like when you as a former hindu when you see the world, you know, you know the song the lyrics it's a compelling

08:09

It's a it's a as far as everyone knows almost universally when you hear that piano playing You know what song is being played being depicted, right?

08:16

but when you hear Those lyrics being sung like what what's being? What do you how do you interpret that?

08:23

What do you see being being told from like lennon's perspective? It is it's like a kind of hinduism, you know in the vedas in the vedanta

08:34

Uh, basically you get to see where hinduism is a little different from the puranas

08:39

Like I was saying hinduism developed over time in the vedas. We don't get to see a lot of uh today's hindu god's name, you know, um

08:49

Uh, there are many hindu gods, uh, which developed just like 70 years ago, you know

08:54

Ma santosima is a hindu deity before 1950s No one knew this goddess and within like 70 years.

09:03

She's now like a very prominent goddess in india uh, so I think lennon was uh trying to uh showcase, uh

09:13

The vedas, you know, which actually says that uh, There is like Uh, we came from nothing uh

09:22

That's the actual concept of uh, the vedanta philosophy Uh at the weight of philosophy there is dueta and there is a dueta philosophy the ved

09:32

I'm talking about the vedas. These are the oldest of all hindu scriptures Yeah, and for sure mahesh yogi who was the guru of lennon, you know

09:40

Um For sure here, you know, all hindus have very high reverence for respect for the vedas

09:46

Actually, they always say go vedas forget everything vedas And so the duata, uh adwaita philosophy.

09:53

It basically means that yourself You know yourself your atman Uh, the soul is that actually that brahman?

10:03

There's there's no difference actually Brihadaranyaka Upanishad these upanishads which literally has verses and says that The brahman is no other than the self.

10:13

The self is that ultimate reality and that's why a lot of gurus you will see uh, and uh the way the

10:20

Harrison and the beetles they had respect for uh, mahesh yogi or rajanish we see in the video

10:29

Gods of the new age, you know how devotees used to just bow down in front of rajanish and do anything for this guru

10:36

You know anything? And then the iskcon, you know the vakti

10:46

Iskcon was by the way founded, uh in in us first In in america first then today it has many centers

10:55

But all of these people they came to the west, uh Try to spread the vedanta philosophy actually, which is the more older belief of hinduism

11:07

Which is that the self is that brahman actually the newer hinduism

11:12

Which are the puranas and the later scriptures the dharma sutras the ramayana Uh, the mahabharata.

11:18

These are the later, uh hindu Um ideology the later part, um, so there's a difference the the vedanta philosophy is actually believing that the self is

11:30

Equal to god. Is that brahman? Wow, uh, andrew, what are you thinking about so far?

11:36

I know You've got a little uh beetles history in your family, uh, you can talk about whether you know now you want to whether you can but like what's

11:44

There's very and it's a very fascinating history because there's a lot with like kind of like the rise of the guru

11:49

Uh in the west specifically connected to hinduism connected to the beetles were sort of the

11:54

The uh mediator they were the catalyst for a lot of this change Yeah, I mean during the time in the 60s.

12:00

There's so Much going on we think about like the vietnam war we think about the psychedelic era.

12:06

We think about essentially A society of children whose parents I believe were in world war ii right and uh

12:15

They're growing up after this and there seems to be a distrust of government and a rebellion to the current or Older social norms that were within the united states of america, which was what our christian roots as a nation

12:28

So in that rebellion, uh during the 60s, they go off to so many different areas uh looking for truth and peace whether it be uh drugs or sex, uh

12:41

Essentially what people were doing was trying to rebel from the religion, uh that guided america thus far and So it was the perfect storm, right?

12:51

We have the beetles that come in in the 60s And it just takes our nation By beetlemania, right and I believe it was around like 1964 the ed sullivan show they play one of their first Uh concerts here

13:03

They got that bowl cut super different than a lot of a lot of the folk music that was prior in america like changed the way the music structure even worked in songwriting and from there as sandeep was saying they got more into the weird

13:17

Stuff like here's some lyrics from a song from 19. Uh, where is it? 1966 this is four years prior to the hari krishna song by george harrison.

13:27

This is called tomorrow Uh, never knows. Let me just read you some of the lyrics here This was written by paul mccartney and john lennon.

13:33

I would say mainly john lennon wrote this but it says turn off your mind Relax and float downstream

13:39

It is not dying. It is not dying lay down all thoughts surrender to the void. It is shining It is shining that you may see the meaning of within it is being it is being that love is all

13:50

That love is everyone. It is knowing it is knowing That ignorance and hate may mourn the dead.

13:55

It is believing it is believing but listen to the color of your dream It is not living. It is not living all play the game existence to the end of the beginning of the beginning yada, yada, yada says the same thing over and over again very

14:05

Very interesting song the drums are pretty cool in it. Uh, I really liked this song at one point, uh of my life, but The point is even in 1966 uh due to drug use and uh, the beatles being

14:20

Influenced by these teachers these gurus Uh, their music was changing very fast and due to them being arguably the most popular band at that time

14:31

Uh, this is going to influence the rebellious culture that is trying to push away the roots of christianity

14:37

And I mean, it's not just uh, the new age essentially at this time. We have charles manson going on around this similar time we have

14:46

Uh, what is it? Jim jones going on at this time? We have so many different things

14:53

Going on at this time. We even have the government doing tests on its own citizens with mk ultra during this time

15:00

This is a crazy time the 60s were nuts. So it was just like this perfect storm for this religion that is so against god in the biblical gospel to come in and see a

15:14

Rebellious group of people that are looking for peace other than god to then give them this go say hey

15:20

This is something you've never heard about And this is going to be something that you can push towards and it's all is love love is everything

15:28

Uh, it's the self you are one with god because you are part of god consciousness

15:33

So it just is appealing to people especially when they're on drugs. Like that's just the reality of it I mean people are the same way today, especially a lot of people.

15:41

I know who take a lot of psychedelics or drugs. They Yeah, they yatter off the very same beliefs that people believed in the 60s and the 70s

15:49

Uh, it's just a different flavor Of it. So, I don't know. That's kind of some of my thoughts sandeep.

15:54

What do you think about it? Yeah, um, yeah You know, it's like when rama swami when rama swami says on the stage that uh

16:06

This is what hinduism is with no backup What's the evidence for that, you know the the beetles they thought that uh hinduism is all about uh love and and you know, everything is one and then uh,

16:24

The self is that they got right in that part that the self, you know Um is actually the ultimate reality, you know, the brahman, you know, the cosmic power.

16:35

Yeah It's it's it's all within you, you know, and you have to discover that how you do that you do meditation

16:41

You just think the bhakti yoga You know, you just keep on thinking about yourself and that there is that power within you, you know

16:50

And that power is actually can make you like god, you know And we know that that that was the same very first scene of lucifer

16:59

Uh, he he thought that he can be like god and he can sit on the same throne as god, you know

17:06

And he was beautiful But that's the pride the scene of pride and the beetles, uh were on that path

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18:30

Yes, indeed. So In this whole conversation is fascinating. We're talking about the guru in this case

18:36

The beetles brought over hinduism a lot of the eastern ideology by way name of the was the name of the guru again uh

18:43

For the beetles. Yes mahesh yogi mahesh yogi, right? And what's just interesting is that what i'm just curious about is where within the hindu scriptures, where does the idea of Like the guru, uh come in because you have again you have the different hindu scriptures.

19:01

You have the different gods within hinduism But the idea of being centered around one person that people sort of gather around with to get special light and enlightenment special knowledge special understanding

19:14

Even today there's a lot of people who are westerners who will travel over to india to seek out A particular guru you saw that depicted in by the rajneesh in wild country when they came over here and people saw that leader the guy in the rolls royce as a

19:28

Guru next to gar. Yeah. How does that where is the idea? Where does the idea come from within like the base tenets of hinduism and the hindu scriptures?

19:37

So, yeah, there's a scripture, uh in hinduism called the dharma sutra in gautama dharma sutra

19:44

Uh over there. It literally says that a guru can be worshipped as god is equal to god

19:53

And then we we find in the entire vedas actually, uh, the chandogya upanishad

19:59

Uh, the brihadaranyaka upanishad Uh etreya upanishad all of these upanishads which are the last part of the vedas these are the

20:08

You know believed to be the ancient books, uh for hindus And these are written hindus believe that thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago so all the early text of hinduism basically

20:22

Tells that like the chandogya upanishad literally says that the self is that brahman the ultimate reality

20:30

Or some people call that prajapati or the cosmic You know the god, uh

20:37

Yeah, so in other words a guru who's gone truly into their self They detach fully from their ego and other people are wanting to know how to do that, too.

20:46

Yeah, so so when you achieve moksha Uh moksha is the salvation the english term is salvation.

20:54

The sanskrit term is moksha Uh, you you get freedom from the samsara cycle, which is called as a karmic cycle the karma

21:04

If you're hindu you have to believe at least in two things. One is that your body will die for sure

21:10

So you you will die one day. So you believe in karma the reincarnation cycle

21:15

You have to believe it even in buddhism, you know hinduism and buddhism has little difference Gautama buddha was born in a hindu family

21:22

He left hinduism he was born in a kshatriya family kshatriya caste he left, uh, the uh, the hindu

21:30

Religion, he brought up his invented his own, uh belief. That's now we know as buddhism.

21:36

Yeah, so, uh, Buddhists don't believe in gods Okay, they they they are atheist kind of uh, they but they believe in karmic cycle reincarnation

21:47

Yeah, and that's uh, and that's why they believe that buddha when he was meditating, you know for years Uh, he achieved he became enlightened, you know, he he uh, he was free from the samsara cycle

22:00

So in hinduism buddhism, you believe in reincarnation uh, so, um that that's the concept, uh,

22:07

You believe yourself is the is the ultimate reality, you know Yeah, and although it doesn't seem though somewhat contradictory in terms where you'll have somebody who's a guru

22:18

For example, they'll say truth comes from within. Oh, that's a really insightful statement.

22:24

Well, but you need to follow me right, it seems like he should not be it seems self -contradictory in terms where instead of You need to find truth within but you actually need to look outside yourself and find me to tell you that right

22:39

So it seems it seems somewhat antithetical to each other. Yeah. Yeah If you remember when we went to that temple, yes to investigate, you know

22:46

What really this thing is all about you see the last thing and the very over and over the guru was saying one thing

22:54

Uh question who are you? What is the self? Yeah, that what all yoga centers real yoga centers

23:01

Okay, like who really knows yoga the vedanta philosophy, you know, not like yesterday, you know guru popped up You know saying that 60 hour yoga class

23:11

I did from india. I'm a guru. No, no, no You go to a real yoga center in india or like even in the west if there is an indian guru if you ask him what is uh

23:22

What is what is the first thing that I should do? You know, I want to learn hinduism or do start yoga, you know start doing yoga from today.

23:30

He will say you first You know the book which even the guru gave us Trying trying to tell us that you should buy this book the self the question of self the self -realization

23:40

Yeah, you have to question who are you? You know and and there is no nothing like god the superior someone like you

23:48

You are that person and you can be that person how you do that You do that by meditation by yoga by thinking that all

23:59

Power which created this universe, uh, you know, that's why before you do yoga or meditation you chant.

24:06

Oh You make this kind of noise, you know thinking that that power You you're calling that power.

24:13

You're actually trying to force yourself actually force your mind actually to think that it's all within you and you have to uh, you have to find it out you have to realize that You know, you can be that shiva kind of you can

24:33

Be that krishna, you know They they are sons of god and maybe you are one of them, you know after doing yoga for 10 years yeah, wow, what is then what is sandeep according to Hinduism, I want to get us too much off track, but I think it kind of has to go with the search for Knowledge outside of the material world right rather you do it through Yoga or transcendental meditation or meditation through yoga

25:06

Uh is reality that i'm looking right now at things this table. I can Is this an illusion right?

25:13

Is this like things aren't necessarily? uh Okay, explain that.

25:19

Yeah um You know like you were saying the illusion, you know, uh, like most of the guru gods of the new age

25:26

If you see that video the rajneesh Uh is trying to tell his devotee. It's all maya.

25:32

It's all illusion the pain which you see Uh, it's just an illusion. It's not real pain, you know, and you you should suffer, you know, and and so The ways how you

25:46

Do that is obviously through yoga and meditation um, so you try to meditate

25:53

Uh mostly on yourself and and Pre -thinking you already have in your mind that it's all within you and you have to just find it out

26:01

And so a lot of these gurus, you know in yoga centers uh, they start telling their you know followers that uh start uh

26:11

Just making your mind blank, you know, stop thinking about anything. Don't think about anything.

26:17

Just make your mind numb Again, that's not possible. You just think about something right?

26:23

You just can't sit like maybe you're sleeping then Yeah, you're not sleeping.

26:28

So you're awake. What are you exactly thinking? You think about the self and and again the the by the the meditation uh

26:37

How the bible says is you meditate on the word of god you you

26:42

Taste, you know you taste what what's coming in your mind, you know Not everything you get in your mind is is the truth, you know, what you feel like, you know

26:52

Always examine that what the bible says you taste the spirit, you know um, so uh

26:57

Mostly all of these gurus like rajneesh, uh mahesh yogi uh prabhupada vakti vedanta

27:04

Uh, you got vivekananda, uh, then helena blavatsky. I don't know a lot of people.

27:10

Uh, I think Maybe knows in your channel that blavatsky is the founder of the new age movement

27:16

If you type you'll get she was a russian She went to india read few puranas few hindu scriptures and again

27:23

She tried to mix all other religions. Also. Absolutely. She tried to mix, you know christianity like, you know

27:29

At the way the philosophy is like all are one And uh, so helena blavatsky, you know, uh, you know the theosophical the headquarter of the theosophical society

27:39

Is in the southern part of india chennai So you can see how much uh, the new age movement is related to hinduism.

27:47

Oh, yeah can you define theosophy because I know we've talked about helena blavatsky in other episodes, but Theosophy the the worldview and belief system that's being depicted behind that Can you give a clip note summary of what that is?

28:00

Yeah, uh, theosophy is basically your it's it's somewhere related to uh the ultimate reality

28:09

You try to mix everything, uh, you try to think that there is a super power uh

28:17

Maybe there is no god, but there is a super power and you are trying to get yourself attached aligned

28:25

Get connected to that super power um, how you do that you do that, uh by Obviously kundalini you do that by meditation uh blavatsky was a was a huge fan of meditation

28:41

She wrote books even uh, but again, she tried to mix that with egyptian beliefs.

28:47

Also, I believe uh, if you see the Theosophical society the symbol it has the om om sign and also, you know kind of a cross kind of sign

28:58

Also, uh, so it has different kind of signs. Uh, The whole concept is that all are one, you know, there's no difference

29:06

And and the whole question that it should be is that What is this self all about?

29:13

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30:01

No, that that's really insightful andrew, what do you think about that? yeah, in terms of like gurus even in uh,

30:08

Theosophy we can find within the new age movement itself that nobody teaches the same thing and I and I think that one of the biggest schisms or One of the biggest issues that I have even within hinduism is that there's no central.

30:24

Um stability Because of gurus, right? So if you have this one individual, let me give you an example hebrews one says

30:31

Long a long time ago in many I don't know why i'm butchering this verse long ago in many times in many ways god spoke to our fathers through the prophets

30:39

But in these last days he has spoken to us by his son I essentially through a biblical worldview see a guru as being someone who could be

30:47

What the bible would call a prophet, right? And all prophets if there are a mouthpiece for god should have a form of stability

30:56

Within what they're teaching because god says that he never changes, right? So when there's a prophet who's speaking for god what they're saying

31:04

Let's say from the old testament into the new testament with jesus It should all be cohesive at all.

31:10

It should all teach the same thing which arguably i'd say the bible does uh, but within hinduism

31:17

Gurus teach many different things these people that are like mouthpieces for god don't even teach the same concepts even about god and his

31:25

Deity, is that something that you find is an issue within hinduism? Yeah Because why they all don't say the same thing and and there are many gurus actually there's so many gurus in in india like there are gurus like Who has like millions of followers, you know, uh, like mahesh had millions millions of followers, uh,

31:50

Vivekananda, you know, he was a monk very well -known millions of followers even to this point in the northern eastern part of india from where I belong uh huge followers they they all uh, it's like, you know, my grandmother is a follower of a guru who is based in the northeast so in the

32:11

Western part no one follows this girl And they all say the different thing here is the reason why because in puranas in the hindu scriptures if you see uh different hindu scriptures are claiming that This god is the main god shiv puran

32:28

Says that shiva is the creator and he is the obviously the destroyer it also says in shiv puran

32:35

And and so he he is the supreme of all but if you read again the bhagavad gita over here krishna says over and over and again that um,

32:46

I am the creator I am I am the Life giver for everything.

32:52

I am that seed, you know, and then brahma puran says brahma, you know the creator so uh, there are so many of so much of differences, you know, uh, but again, uh,

33:02

The similarity you will find is all the gurus all of these gurus. Uh, they have the same one point

33:09

That a guru is worthy of worship gautama dharmashutra the text it says over there uh that a guru is equal for worship and then there are obviously the uh quotes from chandogya upanishad

33:23

Brihadaranyaka upanishad where it says that self is the ultimate reality so uh the gurus, yeah, they they claim that uh,

33:32

You know, I I i'm the best of all, you know, and you see how they live their lives, you know with luxury

33:38

And rajneesh had like rolls royce, right? Yeah, uh, like literally like not one He had like so many tens of rolls royce a helicopter uh

33:48

Private jet I believe and they have their helipads, you know on their little helipads and and all of these gurus, you know

33:55

Um, they they all live their luxury life, you know It's all about the self, you know, you gain more and more

34:04

Yeah, it's definitely intriguing. Um, like I think there was the I think a prime example that we can make a transition is uh, let's talk about the um,

34:15

You know even like modern day examples of that. Um andrew, did you ever hear about the documentary bikram?

34:22

Yes, I believe so. Yeah the bikram yoga. There's the bikram yoga centers and there's he was another guy who was a guru

34:28

That came over from uh from india. He and but then he started a whole

34:33

Chain, it was like huge like huge and it was like every Middle -aged woman like going through like a life crisis a midlife crisis and a bit of bikram

34:43

You watch the netflix documentary It's like they're all there But it takes a very dark the documentary takes like a very very dark turn and what you end up seeing is that You know people are doing

34:54

It's a mixture a bunch of things. Uh, so there's something by steve hassen He is a cult expert on mind control and he talks about like undue influence and group think so if you're in a group

35:05

That are all doing the same thing. It just you get into a very suggestible very vulnerable state

35:10

And I think especially in an environment where you're in a yoga in a yoga studio that's hot and i've done it before it's like after like an hour in you're just you're just in the flow like you almost have to Disassociate just to get through the the hotness and you're sweating out so much of your body water weight

35:27

And when you're doing that, but then you're also looking up to this person that you see as a guru Like as enlightened who's going to be the be all end all to help you get

35:37

You know to attain mox, yeah, what is it mox the salvation the last thing yeah

35:43

But what ends up happening in the documentary you see Like cases and cases of cases of women who were sexually abused by this person

35:51

And I think he ended up getting off scott free or he ended up getting out of jail shortly And he was in jail.

35:58

Yeah. Yeah, but I think he's out now. He's like starting another chain somewhere, but it's like in It was like thinking like bad theology hurts people and like I remember watching that documentary and seeing example like bikram

36:10

This is the logical conclusion Of where you go when you end up believing that you are god like you can do as you wilt um and and just Play like you get you get to write the rules as far as what you get to do to people

36:25

What do you do to take advantage of people? And you know, it breaks my heart to see people who go there for hope

36:32

Meaning, you know to make sense of their life for you know Enlightenment, but then they get spit out the other end with a whole boatload of trauma

36:39

And if you don't have the gospel like where do you end up? It's a lot of nihilism and despair So I think that would be another just one of the examples recently of like the you know, the guru factor

36:49

Of just how you see that affecting Just modern day America now like well,

36:55

I know what do you think about that? um, so vikram, you know, he came from Uh, he came to the us and he started his own this thing uh, vikram yoga and like you told that he already had so many allegations and which were actually proven that He sexually abused a lot of these women and and uh, is there any connection with real hinduism like many hindus, you know

37:22

Who would be listening to this would say that that the guru did? You know that doesn't come from the hindu scripture, right?

37:28

I mean you don't say Okay, you don't see the crusades and you don't see the britishers and say, okay, this is what christianity is

37:36

You know in real right, you know, but but here is the point does the bible say, you know, uh,

37:42

That you know, you go fight you go wage war, you know So that's the that's the point you investigate and what we uh know about vikram's life, you know

37:53

And there is not only vikram there the pratibha joe is uh, This guy wrote a book called uh light on yoga, you know, and he was multi many times he was accused of uh sexual, uh,

38:06

Like abusing others, you know many younger women actually uh, there are many other gurus actually people people do their research they will get so many prominent gurus were accused of uh, basically sexual abusing

38:21

And we see this thing in shimad bhagavatam where krishna is healing a hunchback woman she was on a road and krishna was passing by and And krishna saw this, uh woman and and he healed her and she became a beautiful you know normal perfect Woman now and so this uh woman invited krishna to her house and krishna goes there and the woman

38:52

Uh, you know krishna sleeps with the woman you get to see a god is involved with uh, this kind of activities

38:59

You know, so what do we expect from uh vikram? Or from uh joey's, you know, what do you expect?

39:07

It's it's so much connected, you know, yeah Yeah I mean, it's just like psalm 115.

39:13

It says that you become what you worship essentially, right actually Yeah, and and not only that not only krishna.

39:20

Okay move from krishna. Let's go to uh, The shiva, you know, I mean, uh vishnu changing, you know here i'll say one thing

39:28

There's a god in hinduism, you know hindus believe in the planets also cosmic gods and stars and and Brihaspati brihaspati is a hindu god a very prominent god.

39:39

Uh, there are mantras which are Which are given for brihaspati, uh and brihaspati raped, uh, you know, uh raped, uh, his brother's

39:51

Uh wife called mamta, you know, so you get to see all of these stories, you know I can imagine a god, you know doing this kind of things.

39:59

We have shiva, you know trying to um like um

40:04

Uh grab a mohini, you know, it was vishnu who changed to Like a female form and then shiva's wife is angry because you know, you get to see all of these stories, you know

40:16

And and it's really not nice, you know kali the goddess kali is related to fertility again

40:21

Kalika puran if anyone reads you get to see there's literally it is saying that you worship the

40:27

The female, you know private part, you know To for worshiping so this is what hinduism is what do what do we expect from the gurus, you know

40:38

And vikram is up, you know, everyone knows him millions of people

40:45

So I know not to be I don't know. I want to be careful of this Maybe if your people you have little ones listening around just want to make maybe put in your earbuds

40:53

But if I can just maybe be crass for a second The the hindu scriptures when it talks with the gods and their interactions

41:00

Specifically in relation to male and female body, you know, they're they're private parts um, there is sort of this sort of like worshiping centric part where it's like That's you have a whole you have a whole temple in india.

41:14

That's shaped like a phallus yeah, and it's like the the second like that sort of distorted view of sexuality is is deeply intertwined like within hinduism

41:23

Yes, so how It seems though When you actually look at the hindu scriptures and even the hindu gods and like and a lot of them like I think you mentioned

41:31

Was it kali? Kali. Yeah. So when you look at example, like, you know, we're just using like beacon for an example

41:38

I mean, it's it seems that it's something that's not a distortion, but it's a logical conclusion. It's inseparable

41:44

Um, yes. Uh, so, uh, like we know, you know, for example, like muhammad had you know, so many wives, right?

41:51

Uh, we go back to the scripture always, you know, that was my first thing when I was coming out from hinduism

41:56

I always went back to the hindu scriptures the stories them, you know, all of these stories how the hindu gods were, you know uh, and so the oldest uh, shiva temple that we have for the god shiva is

42:09

Uh, guddi malam temple. All right in this temple. You literally see if anyone googles

42:15

Guddi malam temple shiva temple. You will see uh a clear picture of a male phallus, you know like a phallus you get to see and people literally worships this it's exactly how you know like a

42:30

Statue idol of a phallus and people worship. I did that with my father uh, they pour milk and they touch that and they they bow in front of that and you see you get to see how the uh

42:42

The um ancient pagan gods, you know egyptian mythologies if we know or the greek mythologies, you know

42:49

They used to worship fertility deities actually So, uh is hinduism is like a lot connected with that kind of ideology

42:58

Uh, we have like shiva purana straight out over there And you know, you know when you see a shiva idol you get to see the the cylindrical phallus

43:08

Shape and underneath the phallus. There is the female private part the you know that female private part so shiva actually the god said that Shiva's phallus should be you know inserted in the phallus, you know female private part if I can if I can be again

43:24

This is uh, we're talking about this is this is an adult Immature and content as far as some of the things we're talking about here so I just want to say that and before I kind of layer my question here, but uh

43:37

When you're talking about these parts of the temple The milk what does that symbolize?

43:43

That actually doesn't symbolize anything milk. Basically people pour even water the holy water ganga when we uh took our uh water from sultan ganj, so People pour water also, but it's just you you pour on the phallus, you know

43:59

It's just so weird and the whole story is like, you know, um, uh, she was phallus

44:06

Yeah You know, the male has to be connected with the feminine. It's like a fertility worship literally

44:14

There are so many verses in the hindu scripture. There's a there's a scripture called vasistha uh vasistha sutra, okay in that uh vasistha uh sutra over there it says that uh, uh, even like the child marriage it comes out straight from um, the hindu scripture uh

44:36

Over there. It says if a if a girl is not married by the age of 12 The menstrual blood should be drinked by the family.

44:44

So you get to see all of this. Uh, this like, uh, This weird verses, you know, so bad.

44:51

I mean the all of the hindu scriptures actually Going to the vedas also, you know over there in brihadaranyaka upanishad as part of a veda over there it says that a man should

45:04

If a man is offering a woman a gift Uh to lay down with him

45:10

And if the woman resists that the man can beat the woman and forcefully take her uh, yeah

45:17

That's in the hindu scriptures. That's in the hindu scripture when I first read that it sounded so much like which book now in Brihadaranyaka upanishad is part of the vedas and over there.

45:28

It literally says this thing Yeah Man that's so fascinating just because Again, a lot of these practices we see, you know

45:36

Even in the conversations of people that i'm associated with ministry partners when we we're focused on a lot of things here at cultish

45:43

But when we are using you can tell me is that when we're dealing with a specific, you know New age practice or in a cultic practice.

45:50

We're kind of looking at a modern westernized version of it We just know it through the lens of deuteronomy 18.

45:56

God says don't do this. This is a way in which you cross over This is not something you should do But then when you actually look at it through the lens of like how it originated

46:04

Like within the confines of his hinduism, it's it's really something else Yeah, I mean it's it's very interesting or we're talking about, you know

46:12

The guru and and it's just sort of this is where the conversation is You know we're looking at you know bikram or the rajneesh or just a lot of examples where you have people who've sort of been the

46:21

Guru or cult of personality even see them in there's a lot of case studies here even in the united states of people who have

46:28

Sort of adopted those cults of personality where a lot of abuse has taken place people are manipulated taken advantage of um, but as he as he was saying as cindy was saying actually showing in the hindu scriptures even specifically about the type of Just really distorted a perverted sexuality

46:46

That comes like from that. So it's not just some Arbitrary thing that we're saying like this is directly from their hindu scriptures like you decided chapter and verse

46:56

Um, so it does seem very much that you know, this is the logical conclusion when you have

47:02

Somebody who plays god like in my like five years into this Like whenever there's a cult

47:10

Cult of personality. It seems that sexual abuse and playing god They go hand in hand and it seemed it's very eye -opening

47:17

Especially given what he read as far as like even the hindu scriptures almost backing that. I don't know What do you what do you think about that andrew?

47:23

It makes me think of something sandeep was talking about much much earlier in some of our other episodes where He goes well, i'm just gonna i'm just gonna go ahead and compare jesus to shiva

47:34

Right and i'm gonna look at their lives Like just compare jesus with any guru. Let me just read something real quick from hebrews hebrews 4 14 through 16.

47:42

Okay Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens. Jesus the son of god

47:47

Let us hold fast our confession For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses

47:54

But one who who in every respect has been tempted as we are yet without sin

48:02

Let us then with confidence drawn near to the throne of grace that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need

48:09

Jesus Would be tempted in every way Right that shiva could be tempted right but without sin.

48:16

Jesus was perfect in every way. He was impeccable He was unable to sin in that regard And so when

48:23

I think about gurus or I think about shiva, I'm gonna do what sandeep's saying, right?

48:28

I'm gonna go well, let me look at the life of jesus And of course if you're gonna believe in a god

48:34

Uh who is different than the perfect god holy god the one without sin Like psalm 115 says you're gonna become like the god that you worship like us as a as a as a christian

48:45

I want to imitate Christ, right? I'm not perfect I'm a sinful human being but my aim is to be more like christ -like

48:53

And I think that's an admirable admirable thing to try to be But within hinduism if you're going to imitate shiva or if you're going to imitate bikram or bikram is going to imitate shiva

49:05

You don't get a world with peacekeepers and people who actually love their neighbors

49:11

Instead you get a world that's actually very selfish and self -fulfilling Which is something that I find very odd and contradictory within hinduism in general but I mean

49:21

We have jesus. I don't need any of that other stuff and jesus is so much greater like it's it's beautiful to me yeah, uh

49:30

Absolutely, you know all of these scriptures like vasishtha dharmashutra and all of these uh shiva puran, uh

49:38

We have the upanishads Uh, we have the bhagavata puran

49:44

Uh, there's there's two bhagavata puran. By the way, there's devi bhagavata puran. There's bhagavata puran shreemad bhagavata

49:50

I'm talking about the shreemad bhagavatam you get to see krishna like You know stealing the clothes of the girls and he's joking around with his friends

49:59

And then he's sleeping with a woman whom He healed actually and then we have uh ramayana where we get to see how rama is treating his wife so unfairly like uh, we

50:13

Like his own wife. Rama is saying that I don't want to accept her anymore And accusing her of many things.

50:20

Uh, we have so many scriptures, you know, we see the gods, uh, how they How their character were, uh, you know, how they you know brihaspati again

50:29

Uh, we get to see like he's raping his brother's uh Wife like mamta, you know, literally,

50:36

I mean These are the gods, you know, it comes out from the hindu scriptures straight out of hindu scriptures shreem puran

50:44

So many verses, you know, and then so that's the thing, you know, what do we expect from? uh from from the hindu

50:51

Gurus, you know a lot of people might say okay. Here is a christian who has been accused of this thing

50:56

Look at this pastor. What are you saying? Yeah, you know, they might say okay There are so many christian pastors doing all of these things

51:04

But again, here is the question when I was coming out of hinduism like I was not coming out

51:10

I was in between you know struggling with what to do I straight I opened the bible and I started to read the bible look at jesus's life

51:18

And I started to do the same investigation. I was balanced when I was investigating and you always should be balanced

51:26

You know, no matter where the truth is leading you and then I started to read the hindu scriptures and I this these are huge differences, you know, these gods like Shiva, you know

51:37

Hugging, you know mohini in front of his wife His wife is angry and vishnu is is also like wondering.

51:45

What is he doing? You know shiva. This is the god of yoga, you know Hati yoga pradapika, you know all of this.

51:52

He's known as the lord of uh yoga Actually any hindu you ask shiva is the is the person whom you should follow for yoga

51:59

And this person is doing these things. I mean, what do you learn? You know, that's the question. What do you learn from these gods?

52:06

And you see jesus, you know, he was tempted but he he met a lot of women right? Yeah in the well near the well

52:13

Uh, he healed Uh a woman right who was bleeding right?

52:18

We know that He didn't go to Her place. I mean this these are huge major differences.

52:26

We can't avoid all this Uh, I mean you follow hinduism you go to the book, you know Yeah This is yeah, and then just one thing to do is realize up here we're going to probably do one more segment.

52:38

Um, but uh, Yeah, when I just think about the whole thing When it comes to the rise of the guru like modern gurus you have even modern examples like the well

52:47

Recent example in history the rasneesh that were depicting wild country in this case bikram

52:52

Um, you know people are desperately seeking out now as the west just begins to transcend

52:58

Like literally like ascend there is an ascension into neo -paganism There's a hole where it's not necessarily atheism.

53:06

It's kind of this sort of Neo -pagan pseudo -spirituality like, you know, we're hanging out with will spencer

53:11

I think a lot of history people are going to india almost to escape. Yeah, you know thousands Yeah thousands of people and if anyone googles rishikesh this place, this is a hot spot for yoga

53:21

You will see like all westerners, you know, not just from america. They're coming all over the europe germany france, you know us

53:30

Sweden and they are just coming and so fascinated with yoga But but the most sad part here is these people are never

53:37

Given the puranas to read never given the vedas, you know to read

53:43

They're just given maybe a small verse from the bhagavad -gita where krishna is so nice, you know Yeah, yeah, no, no, no and even like interesting to maybe give me your last thoughts as we wrap up here

53:54

You're talking about the guru And people kind of go to this person who's playing god and this the guru almost plays it

54:00

They play a sort of a presumptuous mediator Between you and ascension between you and defining your true inner self

54:07

But in contrast to what every guru is out there in contrast to everything you experienced growing up in india as a hindu in the highest caste system

54:15

I'm going to read this passage as we rope up here. Hebrews chapter 4 verses 14 through 16

54:21

And it says since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens

54:26

Jesus the son of god let us hold fast to our confession for we do not have a high priest

54:32

We do not have a high priest who is able to sympathize with our weaknesses But who in every respect has been tended as we are yet without sin?

54:40

Let us therefore draw with come with confidence and draw near to the throne of grace that we may receive mercy and find grace

54:49

To help and help in the time of need like when you look at that passage in contrast

54:57

To everything that's offered in hinduism and in whatever guru is out there Jesus versus all the other gurus jesus versus khali jesus versus krishna

55:08

Why why does jesus stand above as the ultimate uh mediator? Because who jesus was you know how he lived his life

55:16

Uh, you get to see in the gospels, you know, uh, like From his birth actually, you know from his birth.

55:24

He was born In a poor family, by the way, you know, not like uh, say rama, you know born in a in a rich family uh, he was born in a manger so that shows the whole concept of that god is close to the

55:40

You know poor. Yeah people of this world, you know Uh and also to the broken -hearted, you know, uh, so the whole entire life of jesus, you know, uh was the most important thing which actually

55:55

Helped me to come out of hinduism, you know when I started to study the entire life of jesus, you know, uh till Till the time he went to the cross, you know, uh, like I was telling in bhagavata purana 16

56:08

It says that there's two ways how you can die either you read the vedas while you are dying

56:13

Or you go to the war. That's the best best place Uh, the best way to die, you know while you're fighting the battle and then we have jesus, you know all of these differences, you know, jesus meeting the woman how he's uh handling uh

56:28

The whole thing and then krishna meeting healing same thing. They are doing the same thing healing

56:34

But then you have this sharp, uh difference krishna healing and then what he does Jesus heals and what he does, you know, yeah

56:41

Um Oh, absolutely, man. Well, thank you so much And if anyone wants to check out your facebook channel, we'll have links in the descriptions called.

56:49

I am an ex -hindu brahman Uh, definitely really enjoyed that. So all that being said, uh Thank you all for listening in and we'll talk to you all next time on cultist where we intend to the kingdom of the cults

56:58

Talk to you all soon What's up, everybody? It's the super sleuth here letting you know that you can go to shop cultish .com

57:04

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57:10

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57:17

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