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Don’t drink, don’t smoke, and don’t watch the podcast of those that do
OK what's up everybody. We are live we are open-air theology. As you can tell pastor Habs is not with us today and he usually controls the intro music for us our good friend Dana Willie. So my name is Jeff Bryce.
I am the one of the pastors of Covenant Reform Baptist Church here in Tallahoma Tennessee. I also am co-owner of Post Turner Slux Bible Rebinding and we have a lot of things going on on YouTube. You can check us out on YouTube at my two cents with Jeffrey Rice and I'm gonna turn it over to my good brother Brayden.
Yeah thanks.
Brother my name is Pastor Brayden or Brayden Patterson. I am so privileged to pastor a small church in Hagerman Idaho. It's called Valley Baptist Church. If you're in the area I'd love for you to come check it out.
As well as have a YouTube channel called reformed ex-mormon ex LDS. Myself now am a reformed Christian who loves to glorify God and preach him crucified. So it's a privilege to be on here tonight as I this topic that we're talking about tonight Christian Liberty has been on my mind here.
Actually for the last it's been on my mind for a while now but just a couple weeks ago when we were talking about our tulip discussion our photos made it into a certain Facebook group and all they could focus on wasn't the theology that we were talking about but it sounded like they were grabbing attention to the smoking of cigars and if that's even appropriate and they were more concerned about those things versus the doctrine and theology that we were discussing.
And so from there you know there's been a lot of good thought and thinking that I've been hoping to do.
One of these podcasts on. So yeah you're the one that came up with the idea. So here we go and to answer Joshua. I don't know if you heard. So Haps is not on tonight. Haps messaged us a probably bit probably about an hour ago.
Something with his blood pressure has been pretty high most the day and so he just wouldn't feel like he was gonna be able to get on and and do anything. So keep him in prayer. I know this is an ongoing struggle for him his blood pressure.
So let's just keep him in prayer lift him up. I know he's in my prayers is in my thoughts is in my heart. Definitely a good brother to have on your side. And there's just a good brother to have on a podcast too.
I mean so amen. So yeah let's dive into it. So again we're gonna be discussing Christian liberty. Don't drink don't smoke and don't listen. Don't watch podcast of those who do so as me and Braden was discussing this issue and we were talking about.
You know how this was gonna play out. All I could think about was that old saying don't drink don't chew and don't go with girls that do. And so I just kind of made it my own flavor. Don't drink don't smoke and don't watch the podcast of those who do.
So if if you hold to that you might want to turn us off right now although I'm not smoking at the moment but it's only because I'm in my house. Like if I could.
Do this podcast outside. Oh man well later on in October I think it is. We're gonna be going to reform con and meeting up with each other and we might have to do a podcast in person smoking cigars having an hour-long smoke with each.
Other. Yeah. So if that takes place that would be great. It'd be awesome. Yeah. Absolutely. And of course once we get our church like so we're we are going to be eligible to either purchase a building or eligible to build next year.
Mm-hmm. And once we have a building of our own we are going to be having many conferences cool. Held by open-air theology. Awesome. So cool. So they'll definitely a part of the conference will definitely be alive.
Some live shows going on of podcasting. Cool. I love it. Yeah. And you're gonna have a like you.
Got to have a corner with with Bibles another one like right next to your Bibles you got all your theology books. Maybe next to that you got your tracks your gospel tracks and after that you got a humid a door right there.
Yeah I'm.
In a door and a trailer. Yeah. For those who are chiming in still got people asking where haps is haps. His blood pressure was up real high so he wasn't feeling like he was able to join us. So please be in prayer for him.
I'm sure he loves knowing that he's he's missed. You know I'm just hoping if this was to play and I wasn't here people say hey where's Jeff. Right. That's right. I'm sure they would. So back on the Christian Liberty.
Man it's it. It's a big topic it is. I came up with three questions and I'll ask the questions and I'll just you know. And then we'll riff on it. You know. Feel free to to start each one off if you won't.
However you want to do this. Yeah. But the first question that we'll deal with tonight on Christian Liberty is how to glorify. Excuse me how to glorify God while holding to Christian Liberty. I love it.
You know I think the.
The very first thing that maybe maybe even before answering the question I think the very first thing that I like to do is is to define what is sin how does sin happen who commits sin. So on and so forth.
Right. And so sin is is the breaking of God's law. Right breaking of God's commandments. Right. And in Romans chapter 14 I believe it is in the final verse there it says whatever is not done from faith is sin.
And so you can have a great example of something like this is found in Daniel chapter 2 where or Daniel chapter 3 excuse me on a Daniel chapter 3 King Nebuchadnezzar sets up a statue of himself and he says that at the sound of many different instruments and he lists out a whole bunch of instruments.
You will bow down and worship this false idol either. He doesn't call it a false idol but bow down and worship the image. And the question has to be posed is playing an instrument listening to an instrument sinful because for some if they were to bow down and worship a false image at the sound of such musical instruments absolutely because it's something that's not being done from faith.
It's something that is violating God's law in that way. But as a as a Christian as a believer in Yahweh a believer in Jesus Christ and his death burial and resurrection I can listen to the exact same musical instruments that are being played and glorify God in the process of doing those without bending a knee to a false idol.
And there's examples of this all throughout the scriptures. And so I think that's the very first thing I would say that that as a Christian I can do many of those same things as long as it's not explicitly said in the scriptures that thou shalt not do.
I can do certain things in in good conscience and in good faith that glorifies God in the process. So an example of something like this would be an atheist and a believer that are standing right next to each other.
An atheist grabs a glass of water. I go and pour glasses of water for both of them. An atheist drinks the glass of water and a believer drinks a glass of water. They both have done the exact same act they both on the exact same thing.
And yet one has done it not in faith and I hope the other the Christian believer has done it in faith to God's glory. And therefore it's the same act. But one is sinful and one is not and that is applied to many many many things.
And so I think the very first way that I would say to answer this kind of a question how to glorify God while holding the Christian liberty is that it's first realizing that as of as a Christian I have freedom I can now recognize God's blessings out in the world.
I can recognize all the all God's goodness around me and I get to take those in I get to enjoy those things and I get a glorify God in the process of those things. I get a gift thanks to him. I get to give praises to him.
I get a worship him through these different things that he has blessed me with. No longer am I just eating a steak to fill my belly. But I'm eating a steak thinking Lord thank you for helping me go from milk to meat.
Thank you Lord. Let me remember where this this cattle has come from from the field and all the work that has gone into it Lord and God let the hands that prepared this know you let all the nation cry out for you for this steak.
I get to do that now versus where where I when I was an unbeliever I just ate it to consume it and enjoyed it in those ways. Now I get enjoy it for God's glory. I get a I get a look to Christ and the substance of those things.
And so I I would say that the very first question of how to glorify God while holding to Christian liberty is is first recognizing my freedom of sin through Christ and and enjoying those things around me to give God glory over those things to to deliberately and intentionally give him glory.
Well yeah.
Man that's very well stated very well stated. I definitely agree with everything that you said. Yeah. I think Charles Spurgeon hit it home when it came to the issue that that were. That were basically hitting on because of the yeah the the podcast that we did on tulip that was shared on a certain site instead of them listening to the theology that we presented they were more focused on the picture that had both you and I smoking a cigar.
Yep. Right. Has was just mean muggin he was just looking on gangsta. Like but you and I were smoking a cigar in the picture. And so they didn't address the theology. They could not get past the fact that we were openly professing Christians who smoked cigars.
Right. And Charles Spurgeon that that that famous quote you probably know it better than I about smoking a cigar to the glory of God. And and basically that's what you were hitting on. You know some someone could smoke a cigar and it could be a sin for them.
And it's not that the smoking itself is the sin. It's not that drink in the water that glass of water is a sin. But what the sin is is not doing it to the glory of God. You're not giving thanks to the one who created all things.
My correct is yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's definitely things that we shouldn't do. So we shouldn't go out and and instill for the glory of God. No. Right. We should we we're not to go commit adultery for the glory of God.
We're not to have sexual thoughts of our neighbor's wife for the glory of God. Right. Because these things are clearly seen in Scripture. God calls them sin. Yeah. But what God does not call sin we are not to call sin.
Right. And then you have the the idea of the the old covenant and the new covenant. Jesus came and fulfilled the old covenant by living the life we could not live and by dying a death substitutionary for us.
So he as our substitute took upon himself the punishment that we deserve. And after this takes place the new covenant the covenant of grace breaks forth. And in the covenant of grace what was. Some of the things that were prohibited under the old covenant are now permitted.
So we're you know under the old covenant the Jewish keep the the earthly kingdom people who are the Jews we're not allowed to eat pork. Now the new covenant you and I who are a part of the spiritual kingdom of God we can eat pork to the glory of God.
Mm-hmm. Right. And that's why I'm glad I'm in the new covenant versus the old covenant. Right. Because I like to you know stick some bacon in the air and scream bacon and so. But what we're saying is is where God has under the new covenant where God has now allowed certain things.
We should not be you know saying that these things are sins are saying that you know again we're at the moment we're just talking about the smoking part. So nowhere in Scripture does it say not to smoke a cigar.
Right. There's no clear verse that says not smokes. And probably there wasn't no such thing back then. I don't know. You know I mean I haven't. You know. Maybe there was maybe there wasn't. I don't know.
All I know is is that there's nothing in it that says that. Now personally when it comes to smoking I think cigars are tobacco done. Right. Yeah. All right. Now now I do believe you can do this wrong.
So if you're smoking and you are inhaling cigar smoke all right. Stop all right. That's dangerous. Don't listen. Don't inhale cigar smoke. Okay. Don't do it now. If you're puffing smoke right. You're hitting the cigar and you're blowing it out.
You're not inhaling the smoke is not entering into your lungs. All right. Now I'm not saying it's safe but it is safer. Right. But tobacco was never meant to go into your lungs. All right. It's kind of to be absorbed into your your your taste buds.
Your what is that others do your gums. And yeah.
Just it was meant to be enjoyed by your palate right. Yeah by your parent yeah.
Yeah and it does relax. You like like I don't know what it is about it. To me it's like a good transitional period from from working hard which I don't smoke it every every day. I don't smoke a cigar every day.
You know two three days a week I might have a cigar. Sundays after church service everyone leaves. I'm wrapping up everything but that's when I want one the most right. I want to relax. I've been preaching for 50 minutes to an hour cleaning up and enjoying fellowship and now it's time to relax.
Give me a cigar. I'm outside chillin to the glory.
Of God yeah and you want to be intentional about it too right. Like right you're setting that time aside that I'm gonna do this intentionally glorifying God and in X Y Z ways right. And so I think you hit it right on the top of the head I whenever and I'm sure we'll get into it a little bit.
We're as Christians we're not to be addicted to things. We're not to be succumbed by things. We're not to be held down by things. We're not beat to be under slavery in those type of means. And when I smoke a cigar or enjoy other things along those lines you know it's usually for an intentional purpose.
And so my cigar smoking history is either on a day that I have I really want to study something and I'm having a hard time studying it and it sets a time aside for an hour or 45 minutes where that's all I'm going to think about right.
All I'm gonna think right. Or whenever at work I've had a really really good call and so like something something I just God thank you so much for keeping me safe thank you for helping these ways and I'm gonna be opening the God's Word and still actually glorifying God and reading through the Bible even in those times.
And then the the most intense ways that I and I'll say intense that the times that cigars have personally helped me is when I've had experiences at work where there's a baby that dies or a young child that dies and so I love to go home and smoke a cigar and open up God's Word and understand God's sovereignty in all things right.
And that to me is how I glorify God in doing those things right. And that can look different for many many different types of people. Not everybody's gonna go to a cigar. Not everyone's gonna do these kind of things.
Your your thing might be going out and getting ice cream with the kids. Your thing might be. There's several different examples that we can use in these ways but that is personally how I view a cigar when I when I treat myself.
To one yeah yeah. To me it's you know. To me it's finding something to do. That's that. That's for me. Right. You know you know like I have my time with my wife my time with the children you know. Like I don't you know sit and watch TV or play with my children and smoke or anything like that.
Like me and my wife we don't hang out and me smoke or something like yeah. Like this is just something that I do as a transitional period where it's just me I have an hour to kill. Or or let's say I got a drive for an hour there's somewhere where I'm going and I'm gonna be on the road driving for an hour all.
Right. That that's a good time for me to enjoy and smoke a cigar. Or let's say I have an hour to read a book you know. And I'm gonna sit on my porch read the book and just relax and smoke a cigar. You know the it's nothing's going inside my lungs.
I you know I'm a grown man you know. And and and I'm joyfully thanking God that I have this privilege to sit on my porch to drive in the car or to go to the tobacco shop by my house sit down smoke a cigar read a book study the Bible whatever that looks like or after I got done preaching and fellowshipping with the Saints on my way home you know smoking a cigar.
Just relax and thanking God that he has gifted me in this area to enjoy him and everything that I do. I want people that are.
Watching this to hear the difference between when when we're saying about intentional time that we are putting aside to do X Y Z activities such as cigar or participating in and drinking some alcohol or whatever the example is.
Yes so let's touch on the alcohol. Absolutely yes. Yeah. I was just gonna say.
With with that I hope that you're hearing a difference between somebody else that might be talking about the same actions saying man I just get that taste in the back of my throat or or I I just needed this for the day or I couldn't go another minute without that.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying that this is intentional time set aside that is not consuming us in those ways. Right. Yeah. Do you want to open up with alcohol stuff. Yeah. So you.
Know a lot of like I've been saying this for years. If the outside world was to decide that it was sinful to comb your hair then they would force Christians not to comb their hair. Right. Listen. We can't call saying what the Bible doesn't call sin.
The Bible does not condemn drinking. Right. If we say the Bible condemns drinking we also have to say the Bible condemns eating. Period. Yeah. And most places in Scripture where it talks about drunkenness it accompanies with the word gluttony.
Right now I agree that we should not overeat. Right. I also agree that we should not be drunkers. We should not amen. You know drink to get drunk. You know to be belligerent. You know because I know growing up I used to drink like that.
I've done a lot of stupid things. Blackout wake up black hour with with the busted knuckles or something like that you know you just never know. And and and so I don't want you to hear me saying that.
I condone that that. I don't. But as a pastor if I walked into a restaurant and I saw Josh is watching right now Josh is a he's a deacon at the church. So if I walk in and saw him and his wife enjoying a beer I wouldn't say oh what are you doing brother.
I'm revoking your deaconship. No absolutely not. I wouldn't. I wouldn't think a matter of fact. I wouldn't think anything about it matter of fact. I probably say I'd probably go and say your next ones on me or something like yeah.
Yeah. I mean me and Josh have sat down and enjoyed cigars together. You know as brothers in Christ. And you know we shouldn't condemn what people with the Bible doesn't. But the Bible does condemn drunkenness.
The Bible does condemn gluttony. Now now let's look at it like this real quick. So the Bible condemns drunkenness and the Bible condemns gluttony. Yet we Americans have three meals a day and snacks in between.
Hmm. Now if I told you that I had if I drank three different periods of the day with a shot in between. Are you hearing me. I'm hearing you all right. What's. But you see what I'm saying. Absolutely I love it all.
Right. Like personally like to me. So before this podcast aired I mean before we started this podcast I was I was working with being on another podcast with another group. I came up with the name for their podcast.
I was doing everything. They ended up rejecting me because I smoked cigars. And I posted a picture of me with the cigar. Yet they would have had no problem if that picture was me at a restaurant with a steak in front of me.
It's wrong brother. Like it's wrong. It's wrong to judge your brother in that way. You know whether it be a cigar or or whether it be a beer. When we as Americans have three meals a day and snacks in between.
Yeah. We're one of the richest countries in the world. There's some country there's some countries where people don't have a meal a day. The meal that they do get that it's from a it's at a dump site.
Right. But we spoiled Americans have three meals a day with snacks in between. And then we get on Facebook and we talk about someone smoking a cigar. Yeah. Two or three cigars a week and talk about their Christianity.
Mm-hmm. Or or we see them have a a beer. Or so. You know whether it be watching a fight at a at a at a at a. You know a restaurant. Like our church we serve wine. Right. If you come to the Covenant Reform Baptist Church in Tullahoma Tennessee and we have communion.
It's wine. Now there is an option for juice. But we have wine. How many churches you go to that would do that. I'm working on it. I hope to get there at some point you know. So so one of the stigmas about Christianity is the fact that that saying is true.
Don't drink. Don't smoke and don't go with girls. That do you know don't drink don't chew and don't go with girls that do. Well and that view has influenced.
Non-believers to even how they should view a Christian if they hear a Christian that is somebody that smokes or somebody that drinks or whatever those those legalistic type of mindsets are immediately you can't be a Christian.
I mean I've I even heard I've heard people say you can't be a Christian have a beard like because then their mind that's what they've shaped what a Christian is like. You can't do that in fact because in the idea is that they're there.
It's a false equivalency fallacy. Right. I see a drunkard drinking a beer and that's an unbeliever. And I'm going to view that person this way. Then I see this this Christian have a beer in his hand he has to be the same thing.
It has to be both sin. It has to be both worldly. No I just because Hitler had a mustache does not mean that you can point at me and say I'm Hitler or or associate myself in those ways to him. Right. That that's wrong.
That that's a that's a logical fallacy. And in fact you know I think some of it because a lot of a lot of Christians will have the mindset. Okay I when I when I was saved this is how I acted when I was unsaved.
I I can't have any visual like what I had before. Well why are you wearing clothes then. Because you're still wearing clothes every time. Right. And in a good example of something like that is for myself.
When I was saved prior to being saved I didn't drink coffee. I didn't smoke I didn't drink or anything. So actually when I was saved it was the complete opposite. When I do those things it doesn't look like the world to me.
It doesn't look like my.
Legalistic world. Yeah. So what people don't realize about you as a Mormon. And you know it wasn't that you didn't do him but it was the reason why you didn't.
Do. Yeah I earn in favor. Exactly. And they were using it in the same reasons that many Christians try to argue not to doing those things. Well you don't want.
To look like that you don't want to look like the world you don't want to look.
Like the world and and so you got to realize that this is legalism this is legal or legalism and a lot of it stems especially in the United States from the Prohibition days is that that's so this is what Bible is this is what it's exactly and and that's why you don't see a lot of that stuff that's in other continents from what I've been told.
I've never been there to other continents but I've heard that that you don't see this kind of legalism that you you have here.
In the United States yeah it would be nothing to go to Ireland and walk into a pub and the people in the pub are singing Psalms singing hymns and drinking beer. Oh now I want to go to Ireland. Yeah right.
But if but uh which which I've been saying so there's this little restaurant down the street from us and and they have a like a little bar area and they have a stage where you can you know play play music and stuff and I've been talking you know man I would really love to go Oh Ireland pub style in this place and you know have a night one night a month where we read Psalms and sing Psalms and sing hymns while drinking beer.
As a church together to as a way to meet our community. Yeah and I can just imagine all the churches around here hating us for this because they bought into American revivalism. You know when I meet people especially when they see that they hear that I'm a pastor you know like and I'm always associated with the the American church the American revivalism.
My daughter's trying to sneak up on me and you know and when they ask the question because for the most part I don't hide anything. Right. I am who I am and I am this way to the glory of God. I don't try to hide anything.
I don't I don't try to shove stuff down people's throat like I just I am who I am I'm an ex-gang banging pimp that God saved that he he's removed me from the filth and that in what I do today whether it's when I hang out with my kids or if I'm with my wife or if I'm at the church whatever it is.
Right now I'm doing this podcast for the glory of God. Amen. Right. It's not for my glory it's for the glory of God. Everything that I do I'm gonna do it for the glory of God. I agree all. Right. So let's move.
You have anything. I was gonna say the exact same thing. Let's move on to the.
Next one all right. So the next question is and I do believe this is one that you are most excited about so you can yeah take off with. It is biblical.
Concerns and objections. So the the two objections that I have always heard in the years I've been saved and things that I've heard just from around me is the first one is that I gotta write it right now here.
So the first one is that your body is a temple right. And the second one is that you're a stumbling block because many of these type of people admit okay yep you're right. It doesn't explicitly say those things in the Bible.
In fact it X Y Z examples right. But you shouldn't do these things as a stumbling block to your brother or sister right. And those those verses are coming from 1st Corinthians chapter 12 or chapter 6 verse 12 and Romans 14 verse 21 so I don't know if we want to.
Open those up and talk about them a little bit or. Yeah. And I got a quote so I was listening to wretched radio and he named off. For he was supposed to name off four things. He only did two. I think only one was relevant.
And it's about Christian Liberty. Christian Liberty. He said Christian Liberty must never be flaunted. And basically what he was getting at it's okay if you smoke your cigar. It's okay if you have your beer.
But don't tell anyone. Don't show pictures. Don't do it in public. So basically what this other Christian is wanting us to do is to hide. Hide it. And I've never heard that. Yeah. So to me this is like if I have to hide something I shouldn't be doing it.
That's hypocrisy. Yeah. All right. If I feel like I have to hide something I shouldn't be doing it. You know when I used to smoke weed I you know smoked it where I want. No cops around. Why. Because you're breaking the law.
And so because I you know I knew that this is something that you can't I could not do. Open. Especially when I became a Christian. Like you know like I just you know there's if you have to you shouldn't do it.
Mm-hmm. And so that's all I was thinking about whenever he was saying this. But the verse he gave for this was in Romans 14. Yeah verse 22 if.
You want to read. Yeah 21 and 22 together. Absolutely so. Romans 14 verse 20 through 22 it says do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food all things are indeed are clean but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense it is good not to eat meat or drink to drink wine or to do anything which which your brother stumbles the faith which you have have as your own convention before God.
Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves but he who doubts is condemned if he eats because he is eating not from faith and whatever is not from faith is sin. Yeah. And so this is coming right off the.
Heels of verse 17 where it says. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness peace and joy and the Holy Spirit. Basically what the writer is trying to get from the Christians.
What. It's the same thing that most of the books are getting at is unity among the brothers you know. So at this time it was those who did not eat me and those who only ate vegetables and those who ate me vegetables are thing.
So I could be wrong here I haven't done too much digging. But I know at this time the Jews did not eat meat and so the weaker brother here could be the Jew while the Gentile were openly eating meat. Right.
And and so again. But this is the idea of meat. So it's not talking about cigars though. It is talking about drinking wine. So wine is included. And Paul goes on to say if my eating meat causes my brother to stumble then I shall not eat meat.
But would this man who made this quote earlier tell me to eat my meat in private. Like when I eat a piece of steak hide all right. So let's say I have 10 vegetarians on my Facebook page. All right. I got close to 5 ,000 friends.
I got 4 ,200 something. Friends. Right. I could have 10 people on there that don't eat meat. Yeah. All right. So if I post a picture of me with a steak am I am I causing them to stumble. That's the mindset of some people's that yes you would be causing them to stumble.
Like I just don't know where you know. Like when you uncover where does it begin and where does it end. Yeah you know. And this.
This line that we're talking about that's being drawn by some people. How do I know that somebody's fasting a day and I'm out eating a burger in front of them. I don't know that. So am I causing them to break their fast because I didn't know something.
What about the diabetic. That is diabetic because they have self-induced eating too much sugar over the years and so they've had an onset of type 2 diabetes and so therefore they're now dieting to save their life.
And they're done with sugar. They're done with it. So to help their life out. Would it be sinful for me to be going and getting ice cream with my son somebody that doesn't have diabetes that's enjoying something in those ways.
Right. The example. Okay another great example a great example of an addiction. Because that's what people are worried about when we talk about alcohol and smoking addiction. A great example of addiction is money spending money can be an addiction for people.
And it has been for a very long time and it's very prevalent today. Is it okay for me to go and put gas in my vehicle not knowing if there's somebody that's addicted to money around me. Or go to the store and buy clothes at the shopping mall or or whatever.
The example is. Is that wrong for me to do those things. Is it wrong for me to take a picture inside a store doing those.
Things. Is it wrong for you to be in public holding hands with your wife knowing there's people that have porn addictions. A great example is it okay.
For me to bring my kids out of the house knowing that there might be pedophiles around like the. The examples just go on and on and on and on. And where does it end. Ultimately if we want to take a super hard legalistic stance I'm gonna I'm gonna go move up in the mountains never come out of my house and never let anybody know where I'm at right.
It's gonna prohibit me from being able to actually share the gospel in those ways. Because I'm not I'm now too concerned about all that type of stuff. Another another great example of so somebody that's addicted to sex so adultery whatever the fornication whatever the example is in those ways is it not okay for that person to get married and have sex within the bounds of marriage with their wife or their husband.
Is that not okay because they used to be addicted to those things. You can't you can't just say just because it's X then you can't have that. That that doesn't work in those ways. Yeah there's a lot of different ways that we can go along with this but with specifically with smoking and alcohol especially in the quote that you're talking about with wretched man don't hide your don't hide what you're.
Doing because if I'm not mistaken he these four points came from Sinclair Ferguson. Okay but wretched was kind of talking about it. So Todd was kind of talking about it on the show wretched but again the whole time I was listening to it was thinking hi hiding is the answer no hi if it's wrong then we don't.
Do it all right. If you feel the need to hide it. It's probably wrong. If you feel the need to hide it from your neighbor it's probably sin. Right. Because you don't want them viewing you in those ways.
Right. Yeah I have no problem in saying that I enjoy a beer. I have no problem saying that I enjoy a cigar. I thoroughly I had a really good brother of mine in Christ. Bring me some Guinness the other day a couple weeks ago or yeah two weeks or so ago and I'm telling you man I pour a pour pour one of those Guinness stouts out and or in a in a glass.
And I study the Bible. And after three hours and I'm still sipping on it like yeah people don't understand that. Like I enjoy that kind of stuff. Like we're not having keg parties. No by no means. Are we doing that.
Just like how I would advocate for somebody to have their marriage with with sex being in the way that marriage provides. Likewise I would give that advice to an individual. Do not go into drunkenness.
Enjoy that which God has given you. Do not go into addiction and be consumed by a smoke. Don't be consumed by it. But you can consume those things safely. And for God's glory as long as you're not being consumed by it I think is a good way of looking at it.
Yeah I think it's a.
A perfect way of looking at it and so like I would add to this. So what I think would be a good application for this is let's say that I'm going out to eat with a buddy and I know that he he was an alcoholic if I order beer.
Knowing this I think I'm in the wrong. I agree with that all right now. There's nothing wrong with me having a beer but knowing that my buddy was an alcoholic and ordering a beer in front of him that's sin.
Okay. Because I'm intentionally doing something that I know he struggles with. So if I'm going to a restaurant or let's say with smoking if I'm around someone and they truly believe smoking is a sin you know what I'm not going to do around them.
Smoke. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not. Because this is something that I do to enjoy myself to the glory of God. Why am I going to do it to pick a fight with someone. Yeah it takes the enjoyment away.
Yeah I mean if you think about what a stumbling block is it a literal stumbling block. Whether it's behind a person in front of a person but it's being placed there so that the person falls intentional.
It's intentional intentional. And so if to give you a good example as I was smoking a cigar walk into the park with my wife because I was wanting to study some stuff and so I was like I'm gonna have a nice cigar as I go to the park with my family as we as I start studying these things.
And I ran into some LDS missionaries because they see it as sinful doesn't mean it is sin. And I think there's a great example of this in the text in Luke chapter 7. And this is this is where a stumbling block is meant only for the Christian.
It doesn't mean that how the world is going to perceive my actions what determines if I'm Christian or not or determines if it's sinful or not. Okay. And the reason this is and if you're thinking is okay if I if the world the the unconverted world sees a Christian walking into the liquor store the big smoke the grocery store and is getting alcohol and is walking out how does the world view that Christian that Christian is sinning.
That's how a lot of people will try to argue this. Well chapter 7 verse 7 verse 34 says this the son of man has come eating and drinking. And now this is speaking of the book the Pharisees behold and and you say behold a gluttonous man and a drunkard a friend of tax gatherers and sinners was it sinful for Jesus Christ to be eating and drinking in front of unconverted men.
No no absolutely not. Is it sinful for Jesus to be accused of being a drunkard. No that is what somebody else is accusing him of. And so likewise as a Christian we have this liberty to be free in our conscience to glorify God and the liberties that we have knowing that maybe if I am addicted to cigars I'm not going to be around cigars.
I'm not going to be smoking. And that might be what I personally have but I know that the world does not dictate what is sin and isn't sin. And so for the Christian to go into the grocery store and come out with beer just because you're being accused by the outside world does not mean that it is sin for you to be doing those things.
Right. And I guess that was.
Therefore yeah it's a it's a concept that that's really new in history. Mm-hmm. Right. I mean we're talking 1800s 1900 late 1800s early 1900s when all this came about. That you know that then having a a drink again.
Not being belligerent not having keg parties not walking around you know blacking out drunk. That that stuff's wrong. Yeah. But having a glass of wine you know at a you know at a restaurant. Having a beer at a restaurant watching the fight watching the football game whatever it is having you know having a an alcoholic beverage.
Like like the church never condemned this until revivalism came into play. Yeah. All right. Now what else came into play with this. Pietism. Not piety. Not piety. Pietism where you would look to your own self your own performance to see if you have a true relationship with God.
Ladies and gentlemen if you're looking to yourself you fail. Okay. I don't care what your best day looks like. You fail miserably. Piety. Good. You want to be holy to the glory of God. You want to live a a a a moral life for the glory of God.
Yeah. But you cannot. That's why we had. That's why we had to have a substitute. That's why we that's why Jesus came. So the church never condemned wine. Having a alcoholic beverage. But until late 1800s 1900 came in to play.
And that's really where American Christianity kicked off. And that's where you get the don't eat. I mean don't smoke. We're gonna do grape juice for communion. Yes. Yes. So they remove the wine from communion and put in grape juice.
Like in people. I think.
Are surprised by this. Ecclesiastes chapter 9 verse 7 says. Go then eat your bread and happiness and drink your wine with a chill heart. For God already approved your works. Even the priests the litical priests were commanded to drink the wine of the vineyard.
Right. Drinking is explicitly said in the Bible. Somebody posted Nick Shepard. And I completely agree with what you've been saying prior to this. As well as this give strong drink to the one who is perishing in wine.
For those in bitter distress there's even applications for alcohol to people and so to just immediately say well want drinking is associated with these kind of people. You're not to do it. No. I think as a Christian we need to actually show the world this is God's blessing.
I get a glorifying. And not only that but the question number two and with the objections. If that's your conclusion from reading chapter 14 of Romans and chapter 6 of 1st Corinthians about your body being a temple and a stumbling block for your brother the issue then is that we have clear contradictions in the because we are told to drink we are told it's allowable.
We're told not to be mastered by it but we're told to be able to partake in those things. And so if you're saying that we're to partake or that you're saying we're not to ever partake then you're explicitly denying what the rest of scripture is said and you're saying that there's contradictions in it and may it never be the.
The answer in these kind of texts are according to the context and it's saying not to be intentionally being a stumbling block for your brother and as a temple. In that text even the context answers those things.
1st Corinthians chapter 6. I'm in Colossians. 1st Corinthians chapter 6. Would have helped if I was already here. 1st Corinthians. Yeah. 1st Corinthians chapter 6. I got.
Tabs on my preaching level so I can yeah I can maneuver. My friend calls them.
Pharisee tabs. Because that way you can look whole smart because you know where.
All the pages are so. Yeah it's great for preaching it is. You can navigate real.
Quick. So much faster. But verses 12 on it says. All things are lawful for me but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me. But I will not be mastered by anything. That's key. I will not be mastered by anything right.
Food is for the stomach. Yet the stomach is for the food but God will do away with both of them. Yet the body is not for immorality but for the Lord and the Lord is for the body. Now God has not only raised the Lord but will also raise us up through his power.
Do not. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ. Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot. May it never be. Or do you know what. Or do you not know what.
That the one who joins himself to a harlot is one body with her for he says the two will become one flesh but the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with them. Flea. Immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body.
But the immoral man sins against his own body. Or do you not know that the your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you whom you have from God. And that you are not your own. That that that is not speaking of anything to do with alcohol.
That that's speaking of you not being immoral to your own body or immoral to just in. It's saying don't be don't be tying yourself to the member of a harlot because you're a member of Christ. You're you're not in that.
You're not a part of that anymore. You're now a member of Christ. It's not saying anything about about smoking or drinking at all at all.
Okay what does address spirit is yes. Okay what does address drinking. And that's the qualification of a deacon. It says deacons likewise must be dignified not double-tongued. Not addicted to much wine.
Yep so it's okay to drink wine. But you're not to be addicted to much wine at this time. Like I think it was probably about 12 years ago I was doing a study about wine and juice in at the time of first century and I did believe at the end of the day my understanding was that it was almost nearly impossible to have grape juice in Jerusalem because the moment that you would bust the grape it firm in it.
Yep because of the the humidity or something that was around there. So like having grape juice at that time was nearly unheard of all. Right. It was wine. Because a lot of people make the argument that it wasn't wine that was only grape juice.
Jesus turned wine into grape juice. No Jesus turned water. I mean Jesus turned water into wine. Good argument was he turned it to a grape juice. But no Jesus turned it into wine. The best wine. Yep now think about the context of it.
The he says that people save the best wine. And to last I mean the best wine first. First the bad one. Because because actually you have a much wine. Yeah I mean like I can remember this back when I used to drink a lot.
You know I started out with the good stuff. And then whenever I was already wasted you know bring in the the red dog or whatever the mad dog 2020 whatever the the nasty stuff. But it did. But but but but you couldn't taste it after you were lit.
Right. And and and so and the master of the face is like he brought the best wine last. Yeah. And so this other stuff that they were drinking could not compare to what Jesus created from water. As a matter of fact it was probably filthy water.
You know it was it was put into purification pots. Yep. So I mean it is what it is. But yeah the Bible does not condemn drinking. If it did then it condemns eating. Yeah everywhere where it does condemn it's not drinking but it's much drinking.
It's being a drunkard. It also condemns gluttony. And so to say that Christians are not supposed to have a glass of wine or a glass of beer is to also say we are not allowed to eat. We are on a permanent fast we're born and then we'll shrivel away and die.
So if you want to go on to this third question. Yeah let's do it. Not really question but just something will. So the pastorial care and discipleship. Yeah. So you and I are pastors of a church. Right.
We we know how we feel about this we we have a stance that we take on this we that we we do not believe it's wrong for us to have a cigar. We do not believe it's wrong for us to have a glass of wine at a restaurant to enjoy our significant other.
We now how do we navigate our Liberty. And also being a pastor because of these I mean these concerns. We just addressed our real concerns. Hmm. Right we're not saying that these are not real concerns.
Yeah someone just put down here our tattoos. Yeah Leviticus 18 19 do not tattoos. Do not tattoo our peers yourselves for the dead. I was preaching on the soapbox one day and this gentleman comes running up to me and he you know he saw me preaching.
He gets out of his vehicle stops his vehicle gets out and wants me to under wants me to understand that the Bible says that you should not tattoo yourself. And I'm up around that box preaching and I said sir did did you just cut your hair.
Hmm. He said yeah military. So hey man thanks for serving our country. I said but did you just cut your hair. He said yeah. I said did you read the verse right above the one you quoted to me where it says not to cut the edges of your hair or tamper with your beard.
So you just shave and cut your hair. And you're dogging me because I have tattoos. Mm-hmm. I think we need to understand the context of everything dealing with the old covenant and the new covenant. Amen.
But yeah so I stand in the pulpit a week after week. I don't wear long sleeves. I don't wear a suit. I'm not trying to hide at all who I am with tattoos. You know I don't smell like cigar in a pulpit.
But after everyone leaves I smoke. I mean there's a good chance. I mean after after church is past the Lord's Day. I went over to a member's house and hung out with them for a minute on my way there I smoked the cigar had it my hand while I was ministering over there hanging out with him talking to his dad stuff like that.
Mm-hmm. Like I'm not like I don't know what you're looking for. Right. But at the same time at the same time I knew that these guys don't struggle with this issue. Yeah as a matter of fact the guy that I went over hung out with met met with me at a cigar shop and we had a cigar together before.
So I knew it was okay to go to his house smelling like a because we smoked one together. Yeah. But again you and I as pastors how do we navigate these waters now. I know something that haps myself and and Austin hammers are working on is we're working on a biblical recovery discipleship program.
And so it's basically a disciple so it's called remedy and so it's basically a discipleship program a recovery program through biblical discipleship. Because we want to help people that's you that struggle.
But we want to do it correctly all. Right. We don't want to lead them to believe that they have to stop drinking. Because that's Satan. Right. No I mean and I'm not telling them never to have a drink.
I am telling them that you never be belligerent never be drunk. Do not drink to get drunk. I'm doing that. That is sin. Stop it all. Right. If you're you know as Christians we were not to do that but just navigating these waters.
I think I think first we need to personally I think about us as in parenting. And you can chime in when you want to. Yeah. I have to have two sons. I have to model for them what it's like to be a man.
Right. They have to see me being a man. Right. They need to see what a man looks like. They need to see what a man does. They need to to understand hard work. They need to see daddy working. They need to see daddy praying.
They need to see daddy reading the Bible. They need to see dad loving and taking care of things paying bills like like doing what I'm supposed to do that way when they get old. So you know. Well I'm a man.
My dad was man. I you know I need to do what my dad was doing. My dad was responsible. He loved Jesus. He read his Bible. He prayed he worked. He put food on the table. He paid. But he paid the bills.
What else did he do. Well he smoked a cigar and he drank a little. I mean he had a beer. But but but but he never like we never saw him. Do this every day. We never saw him.
Act out of character. We never saw him throwing up in the toilet. We never saw him not waking up until the next evening because he was just hungover. We never saw those kind of things. Right. Right. There's a difference there and so that's.
How we have to be as pastors too and as people who want to lead people into recovery is to show them how to live as humans. You know as men and women as as adults. You know a lot of people want to grow up.
I say this a lot. I still believe a lot of people want to grow up but they don't want to pay bills. Right. Everyone wants to grow up but no one wants to pay bills. I know a lot of grown-ups who haven't.
I know a lot of adults. I mean yeah let me say it this way. No. I know a lot of old people who haven't grown up. Mm-hmm. I think it's a better way to say it. I know people my age who I grew up with who never grew up who still live the same way we lived at when we were 16.
All right. Pant butt still showing like the pants never got pulled up. You know it's it's cussing here cussing there seeing a good comment. Yeah. Okay so let me answer this question real quick. Let's do it.
So this is a one sensitive to me. This lady's very special to me. I'm not sure if she wants me to acknowledge who she is. I'll respect her. So how do you feel about homosexuals. Well this is how I feel.
I feel that homosexuality is an identity. I used to be a gangbanger I used to pimp my cousin out for money and other women and so the Bible names off this like a list of identities that you would call sinful.
So like murderers homosexuals stuff like that what it is is an identity. So now that I'm in now that I'm a Christian I don't say I'm a gangbanger right. Like I don't say hey what's up. My name is Jeff.
And I present to them. I click like you know I am you know like normally it's like some initials say like GD or IGD or like just something like a PG like this is something like that that representative a game.
So you know like growing up that's how it was. You know seven fo seven fo fourteen nine seven fo like just abbreviations of something you could say that people would know what you represent and so like but but but what it was was my identity right.
Just like I'm a father. Being a father is an identity. Being a husband is an identity all right. Being a gangbanger was an identity. But once I became a Christian I no longer identified myself as a gangbanger all right.
And that's what the Bible speaks about when it comes to at this at this at this part where it talks about those who do this will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of heaven is is being a Christian on as you're on earth you are a Christian.
So if you're a Christian you cannot be a murderer active murderer. If you're a Christian you cannot be an active drug dealer. You cannot be an active person that steals. You cannot be an active homosexual all right.
Now as Christians we are to love all people right. I I love absolutely every human being on this planet homosexuals non-homosexuals gangbangers non-gangbangers non-gangbangers murderers non-murderers.
I love all people right. However I'm not to condone the behavior of a thief. I'm not to condone the behavior of a murderer and I don't have to condone the behavior of homosexuality. It's an identity is what it is.
So I don't hate homosexuals at all though. I don't have to condone the behavior. I don't have to hate them either. I don't have to to wish harm would come to them as a matter of fact. I wish that they I wish nothing but good to become of them.
I wish that they would have an experience like I had where where they have been where they are able to take off the once held identity and to put on a new identity and that is in Christ. So my answer would be I love homosexuals.
I pray for homosexuals I that I have homosexual friends. I was home I was I was a Christian before they were homosexual right. Just because they became homosexual doesn't mean I have to not be a Christian.
Because because I don't want to hurt their feelings. I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings but my identity is in Christ and I really don't know how else to say it. But I do pray for the salvation of those I know that are homosexuals.
I pray that they will remove that identity and that they would take upon themselves the identity of Christ. I love it. So again as a pastor we are to live out our lives and not shy away not shy away from from what we are you know.
And we are to show the those who are addicts that you can live that that you can drink communion. And it would be wine to the glory of God as a matter of fact. There's a gentleman at our church who used to be an alcoholic.
The Lord took it away from him and guess what. He has wine for communion and it doesn't bother him at all. We model this this is how we are to live. We model it. I love it. No I think.
That question the pastoral care and discipleship how do we how do we do those things. Right. I think the first thing that I would encourage someone to do whether wherever you're at in life wherever wherever you find yourself in your walk be intentional and giving glory to God in all things starting today whatever that might be be intentional about it and if you can't do something unto the glory of God you probably ought not to be doing those things right.
You know I and it's gonna come back on to a lot of alcohol and stuff that I'm talking about right here. But in verse 12 of well let's read first Corinthians chapter 6 verses let's just read verse 12 it says all things are lawful for me but not all things are profitable.
All things are lawful for me. But I will not be mastered by anything. If you were mastered by something day whether it be sugar smoking alcohol money sex stop it don't be mastered by those things. You have one master Jesus Christ.
Look to him for your salvation and be saved by him today. And leave those things that are bondage slavery and a yoke behind right. Run to the cross run to him. Now as a pastor as a as a fireman let me give you this example as a fireman if I go on a very bad call very bad right.
And I can't drive down a road where that bad call happened anymore to get home from work without bawling and crying and and and feeling hopeless. I probably not gonna drive on that road for a little while right.
In fact I probably want people to advise me not to ride on that road for a little while. But because I have Christ I know where my hope is I know that God is sovereign. I'm going to run to him. And maybe maybe in the future I will start going down that road and be able to glorify God as I'm on that road passing that said house.
Now if that day doesn't come for me I'm not gonna have people want to encourage me to go down that if there's not a point in time where I can't get to that right. And so for the alcoholic for the addict for whatever example it is you have freedom in Christ and you have liberty in him.
But we are not to abuse those things. And if there's anything that makes you stumble there's anything that makes you hesitant there's anything that you can't do in good conscience. Don't do it right. Don't do it that that that would be sin for you to do something outside of the faith right.
But just like this podcast Christian Liberty don't smoke don't drink don't watch those that do right don't be on the legalism train that all American Christians are. It seems like to accuse your brothers and sisters of committing sin when they are not right when they are doing something actually completely opposite than sin.
And that is to glorify God in those said behaviors and actions and deeds. Just because you can't do it does not mean that you can condemn somebody that does do it. Yeah I'm gonna be firm in that. I'm gonna be strong and say that is wrong and that is sinful.
In fact you're promoting legalism. You're denying the master that bought you. You're saying that Christ died needlessly. When you're saying that that has to be done that a Christian cannot smoke that you kid that you have to do X Y Z that that is wrong that's a false gospel you need to stop and repent.
If you've done this previously right. Hey.
Let me go back to that just for a second. Absolutely the homosexual thing. I don't feel like I gave it any justice. No I think you did great on it. But yes I just want to make a point and I made it earlier dealing with the old covenant and new covenant.
So under the old covenant the old covenant I'm trying to think of some way to explain it to where someone just coming into this understanding will understand. The old covenant was made with an earthly kingdom people.
And so this would have been the Hebrews at that time. And so under the old covenant would have been the Ten Commandments given at Mount Sinai and on the back of the commandments were written what would be called depending on your translations it would be called statutes and rules.
The the don't do's do this and don't do that type of a thing and so so and so this was the Mosaic Covenant the the old covenant right. And so and under that where it talked about shaving your head or tattoos.
So tattoos at this time wouldn't be tattoos like we know of now the word is the same. But it's it's it's not the same. So tattoos at this time would have been ink made out of ash and it wouldn't have been like a needle but it would have been like sharp rocks and they would cut into themselves like like like like we see this today like someone's emotionally hurt that they don't know how to handle the emotional pain.
So they take a razor and cut themselves. And so the verse talks about cutting yourselves for the dead. Tattooing and cutting yourselves for the dead. So someone they loved would die. They would take and rock with ash on it and they would gash into themselves.
And so this is what other nations were doing. God told the Hebrews they are not to do these things. Okay now I don't think that they should still be doing those things. I'm gonna get that straight but but but I made a comment earlier concerning pork.
So under the old covenant the Jews were not allowed to have pork all right. Now before the old covenant was ever established the promise of a better covenant was given and that this promise is what theologians call the covenant of grace.
So before the Mosaic covenant was established they were told that a covenant of grace was coming all right. And so the covenant of grace is actually the covenant of works. So the old covenant is the covenant of works.
The covenant of grace is the covenant of works fulfilled and accomplished on our behalf. So so if you're living after Jesus Christ came Jesus Christ came and he established the covenant of grace. The covenant of grace was told that an offspring would come from a woman that would bruise the head of the serpent while only bruising his heel.
This is foreshadowing the cross of Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ was crucified this is him bruising the head of the serpent while only bruising his heel. So so so this is the establishment of the covenant of grace.
After this takes place Peter receives a vision telling him that he is now allowed to eat pork. Basically right. Why. Because all the rules rev the rules and stipulations that were given under the old covenant.
Jesus kept he lived the life that we could not live. And because he kept that covenant and he died as a substitute in our place. You my righteousness is not my righteousness. So the righteousness that I have I have in Christ.
So when when I'm judged when I die and when God judges me it won't be a a a book that comes out with all my falls or my faults and failures and every bad thing that I've ever done in my life. But it will be what Christ done on my behalf.
This is the new covenant the covenant of grace. And under the new covenant the covenant of grace we have freedom that the old covenant people were not able to enjoy. Now the New Testament speaks against homosexuality.
It does not speak against eating meat. The tattoos in the Old Testament are not what we have on us now. All right. Now if you say that you need to get a tattoo because you're in pain and you because you have emotional pain and you just need to feel something then you don't need a tattoo.
You're sinning badly. All right. Because that's actually what it's talking about. If you need to cut into yourself because an emotional pain. That's what that's addressing. Yeah not actually putting. You know you know that there was furniture in the temple.
All right. I tell people I'm just decorating the temple. Or but I mean but for the most part I had all these tattoos before I came to Christ. But I'm not against tattoos. I'm against anything. I'm against any identity that takes me from Christ.
So so so you know I roofed houses for for 25 years and for a long time when I would introduce myself I would introduce myself as a roofer. And then one day I got convicted because I had that was my identity.
And once that conviction hit me I no longer identified myself to people as a roofer. I didn't. I always identified myself as hey what's my name is Jeff. And if it came any further than that you know yeah I'm a Christian.
You know my identity is in Christ. Nothing else. That's a beautiful way of saying it. I love it. Yeah. All right. Anything else I I feel like we thoroughly talked through this. I really know. Yeah me too I'm bummed out have haps though.
I am bummed out about that. I'm bummed out too. Yeah. We definitely need to be praying for haps. He has a a lot that he has to go through with that with his ministry we lift him him up. I'm gonna be honest with you I'm not sure if I could do what he does.
Oh man. Right. I mean God is gifted at that man to do that work and it's cool. It's very cool now. I definitely wanted I definitely want to help out in that kind of work. That's why I came. That's why I'm writing the book remedy.
Yeah. Because that's what it's about biblical discipleship. Recovery through biblical discipleship. And haps has been implementing it. We still have a lot of curriculum. We got to get done stuff like that and come up with the money to publish it.
So I'm excited to see it when it's done. I really am. Yeah. Me too. Man. Yeah. I am too but but I think that's in my I want to say two-year plan. But it could be my five-year plan. Hmm so I'm kind of trying to figure it out.
Right now only thing I can really focus on is is our church get in the building. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Sweet sweet. So.
Any last words you know. I I'm gonna just pull a pastor haps right now and say glorify God and enjoy him. I think that's fitting for today's topic to you.
It is fitting. Glorify God and enjoy him forever. And as always hallelujah. Hollaback.
