Christian liberty

OK, what's up, everybody? We are live. We are open air theology. As you can tell,

Pastor Habs is not with us today. And he usually controls the intro music for us.

Our good friend, Dana Willey. So my name is Jeff Rice. I am the one of the pastors of Covenant Reform Baptist Church here in Tallahoma, Tennessee.

I also am a co -owner of Post Turner Slucks Bible Rebinding.

And we have a lot of things going on on YouTube. You can check us out on YouTube at My2Cents with Jeffrey Rice.

And I'm going to turn it over to my good brother, Brayden. Yeah, thanks, brother. My name is

Pastor Brayden or Brayden Patterson. I am so privileged to pastor a small church in Hagerman, Idaho.

It's called Valley Baptist Church. If you're in the area, I'd love for you to come check it out. As well as I have a

YouTube channel called Reformed Ex -Mormon. I'm ex -LDS myself. Now I'm a reformed

Christian who loves to glorify God and preach Him crucified. So it's a privilege to be on here tonight.

This topic that we're talking about tonight, Christian liberty, has been on my mind here actually for the last...

It's been on my mind for a while now, but just a couple of weeks ago when we were talking about our tulip discussion, our photos made it into a certain

Facebook group. And all they could focus on wasn't the theology that we were talking about, but it sounded like they were grabbing attention to the smoking of cigars and if that's even appropriate.

And they were more concerned about those things versus the doctrine and theology that we were discussing. So from there, there's been a lot of good thought and thinking that I've been hoping to do one of these podcasts on.

Yeah, you're the one that came up with the idea. So here we go. And to answer

Joshua, I don't know if you heard, so Haps is not on tonight. Haps messaged us probably about an hour ago.

Something with his blood pressure has been pretty high most of the day. And so he just wasn't feeling like he was going to be able to get on and do anything.

So keep him in prayer. I know this is an ongoing struggle for him, his blood pressure.

So let's just keep him in prayer, lift him up. I know he's in my prayers, he's in my thoughts, he's in my heart.

Definitely a good brother to have on your side and he's just a good brother to have on a podcast too.

Amen. So yeah, let's dive into it.

So again, we're going to be discussing Christian liberty. Don't drink, don't smoke, and don't watch podcasts of those who do.

So as me and Brayden was discussing this issue and we were talking about how this was going to play out, all

I could think about was that old saying, don't drink, don't chew, and don't go with girls that do.

And so I just kind of made it my own flavor. Don't drink, don't smoke, and don't watch the podcast of those who do.

So if you hold to that, you might want to turn us off right now.

Although I'm not smoking at the moment, but it's only because I'm in my house.

If I could do this podcast outside, oh man. Well, later on in October, I think it is, we're going to be going to ReformCon and meeting up with each other and we might have to do a podcast in person, smoking cigars, having an hour -long smoke with each other.

Yeah, so if that takes place, that would be great. It would be awesome. It would be awesome, yeah, absolutely.

And of course, once we get our church, we are going to be eligible to either purchase a building or eligible to build next year.

And once we have a building of our own, we are going to be having many conferences held by Open Air Theology.

Awesome. So a part of the conference will definitely be some live shows going on of podcasting.

Cool, I love it. And your church, you've got to have a corner with Bibles, another one right next to your

Bibles. You've got all your theology books. Maybe next to that, you've got your gospel tracts. And after that, you've got a humidifier right there.

Yeah, a humidifier and a picture of a trailer. Ooh, there you go. That'd be perfect. Yeah, for those who are chiming in, still got people asking where Haps is.

Haps, his blood pressure was up real high, so he wasn't feeling like he was able to join us.

So please be in prayer for him. I'm sure he loves knowing that he's missed.

You know, I'm just hoping if this was to play and I wasn't here, people would say, hey, where's

Jeff, right? That's right. I'm sure they would. So back on the

Christian liberty. Man, it's a big topic.

It is. And so I came up with three questions and I'll ask the questions and I'll just, you know, and then we'll riff on it.

Feel free to start each one off if you want, however you want to do this.

But the first question that we'll deal with tonight on Christian liberty is how to glorify, excuse me, how to glorify

God while holding to Christian liberty. I love it.

You know, I think the very first thing that maybe even before answering the question,

I think the very first thing that I like to do is to define what is sin, how does sin happen, who commits sin, so on and so forth, right?

And so sin is the breaking of God's law, breaking of God's commandments, right? And in Romans chapter 14,

I believe it is in the final verse there, it says, whatever is not done from faith is sin. And so you can have a great example of something like this is found in Daniel chapter two, where, or Daniel chapter three, excuse me.

In Daniel chapter three, King Nebuchadnezzar sets up a statue of himself. And he says that at the sound of many different instruments, and he lists out a whole bunch of instruments, you will bow down and worship this false idol.

He doesn't call it a false idol, but bow down and worship the image. And the question has to be posed, is playing an instrument, listening to an instrument sinful?

Because for some, if they were to bow down and worship a false image at the sound of such musical instruments, absolutely, because it's something that's not being done from faith.

It's something that is violating God's law in that way. But as a Christian, as a believer in Yahweh, a believer in Jesus Christ and his death, burial and resurrection,

I can listen to the exact same musical instruments that are being played and glorify

God in the process of doing those without bending a knee to a false idol. And there's examples of this all throughout the scriptures.

And so I think that's the very first thing I would say that as a Christian, I can do many of those same things, as long as it's not explicitly said in the scripture that thou shalt not do.

I can do certain things in good conscience and in good faith that glorifies

God in the process. And so an example of something like this would be an atheist and a believer that are standing right next to each other.

An atheist grabs a glass of water. I go and pour glasses of water for both of them.

An atheist drinks the glass of water and the believer drinks a glass of water. They both have done the exact same act.

They've both done the exact same thing. And yet one has done it not in faith. And I hope the other, the

Christian believer, has done it in faith to God's glory. And therefore, it's the same act, but one is sinful and one is not.

And that is applied to many, many, many things. And so I think the very first way that I would say to answer this kind of a question, how to glorify

God while holding the Christian liberty, is that it's first realizing that as a

Christian, I have freedom. I can now recognize

God's blessings out in the world. I can recognize all

God's goodness around me. I get to take those in. I get to enjoy those things.

And I get to glorify God in the process of those things. I get to give thanks to him. I get to give praises to him.

I get to worship him through these different things that he has blessed me with. No longer am I just eating a steak to fill my belly, but I'm eating a steak thinking, oh,

Lord, thank you for helping me go from milk to meat. Thank you, Lord. Let me remember where this cattle has come from, from the field and all the work that has gone into it,

Lord. And God, let the hands that prepared this know you. Let all the nation cry out for you for this steak.

I get to do that now versus where when I was an unbeliever, I just ate it to consume it and enjoyed it in those ways.

Now I get to enjoy it for God's glory. I get a look to Christ and the substance of those things.

I would say that the very first question of how to glorify God while holding to Christian liberty is first recognizing my freedom of sin through Christ and enjoying those things around me to give

God glory over those things to deliberately and intentionally give him glory.

Well, yeah, man, that's very well stated. Very well stated. I definitely agree with everything that you said.

I think Charles Spurgeon hit it home when it came to the issue that.

That were. They were basically hitting on because of the. Yeah, the the podcast that we did on Tulip that was shared on a certain site.

Instead of them listening to the theology that we presented, they were more focused on the picture that had both you and I smoking a cigar.

Yeah, right. Has was just mean mugging. He was just looking on gang. Gangster.

But you and I were smoking a cigar in the picture, and so they didn't address the theology.

They could not get past the fact that we were openly professing Christians who smoked cigars.

Right. And Charles Spurgeon, that famous quote, you probably know it better than I about smoking a cigar to the glory of God.

And and basically that's what you were hitting on. You know, some someone could smoke a cigar and it could be a sin for them.

And it's not that the smoking itself is the sin. It's not that drink in the water. That glass of water is a sin.

But what the sin is, is not doing it to the glory of God, not given thanks to the one who created all things.

Am I correct? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so there's definitely things that we shouldn't do.

So we shouldn't go out and and and steal for the glory of God.

No. Right. We should we we're not to go commit adultery for the glory of God.

We're not to have sexual thoughts of our neighbor's wife for the glory of God.

Right. Because these things are clearly seen in Scripture. God calls them sin. Yeah.

But what God does not call sin, we are not to call sin.

Right. And then you have the the idea of the the old covenant and the new covenant.

Jesus came and fulfilled the old covenant by living the life we could not live and by dying a death substitutionary for us.

So he, as our substitute, took upon himself the punishment that we deserve.

And after this takes place, the new covenant, the covenant of grace breaks forth in the covenant of grace.

What was some of the things that were prohibited under the old covenant are now permitted.

So we're you know, under the old covenant, the Jewish, the the earthly kingdom people who are the

Jews were not allowed to eat pork. Now, the new covenant, you and I, who are a part of the spiritual kingdom of God, we can eat pork to the glory of God.

Mm hmm. Right. And that's why I'm glad I'm in the new covenant versus the old covenant.

Right. Because I like to see some bacon in the air and scream bacon. My little son did years ago.

And so. But what we're saying is, is where God has under the new covenant, where God has now allowed certain things, we should not be.

You know, saying that these things are sins are saying that, you know, again, we're we're at the moment, we're just talking about the smoking part.

So nowhere in scripture does it say not to smoke a cigar. Right.

There's no clear verse that says not smoke. And probably there was no such thing back then. I don't know.

You know, I mean, I haven't, you know, maybe there was maybe there was I don't know.

All I know is, is that there's nothing in it that says that. Now, personally, when it comes to smoking,

I think cigars are tobacco done right. Yeah. All right.

Now, I do believe you can do this wrong. So if you're smoking and you are inhaling cigar smoke.

All right. Stop. All right. That's dangerous. Don't listen. Don't inhale cigar smoke.

Don't do it. Now, if you're puffing smoke, right, you're hitting the cigar and you're blowing it out.

You're not inhaling. The smoke is not entering into your lungs. All right.

Now, I'm not saying it's safe, but it is safer. Right. But tobacco was never meant to go into your lungs.

All right. It's kind of to be absorbed, absorbed into your, your, your taste buds.

Your what is that? Your gums. Yeah. Just it was meant to be enjoyed by your palate.

Right. Yeah. And it does relax you. Like, like,

I don't know what it is about it. To me, it's like a good transitional period from from working hard, which

I don't smoke it every, every, every day. I don't smoke cigar every day. You know, two, three days a week,

I might have a cigar. Sundays after church service, everyone leaves. I'm wrapping up everything.

But that's when I want one the most. Right. I want to relax. I've been preaching for 50 minutes to an hour, cleaning up and enjoying fellowship.

And now it's time to relax. Give me a cigar. I'm outside chilling to the glory of God.

Yeah. And you want to be intentional about it, too. Right. Right. You're setting that time aside that I'm going to do this intentionally glorifying

God in X, Y and Z ways. Right. And so I think you hit it right on the top of the head.

I whenever and I'm sure we'll get into it a little bit. We're as Christians, we're not to be addicted to things.

We're not to be succumbed by things. We're not to be held down by things. We're not to be under slavery in those type of means.

And when I smoke a cigar or enjoy other things along those lines, you know, it's usually for an intentional purpose.

And so my cigar smoking history is either on a day that I have.

I really want to study something and I'm having a hard time studying it. It sets a time aside for an hour or 45 minutes where that's all

I'm going to think about. Right. All I'm going to write or whenever at work, I've had a really, really good call.

And so like something, something I just God, thank you so much for keeping me safe. Thank you for helping these ways.

And I'm going to be opening God's word and still actually glorifying God and reading through the

Bible, even in those times. The most intense ways that I and I'll say intense that the times that cigars have personally helped me is when

I've had experiences at work where there's a baby that dies or a young child that dies.

And so I love to go home and smoke a cigar and open up God's word and understand God's sovereignty in all things.

Right. And that to me is how I glorify God in doing those things.

Right. And that can look different for many, many different types of people. Not everybody is going to go to a cigar.

Not everyone's going to do these kind of things. Your your thing might be going out and getting ice cream with the kids.

Your thing might be. There's several different examples that we can use in these ways. But that is personally how

I view a cigar when I when I treat myself to one. Yeah. Yeah. To me, it's you know, to me, it's finding something to do.

That's that that's for me. Right. You know, you know, like I have my time with my wife, my time with the children, you know, like I don't, you know, sit and watch

TV or play with my children and smoke or anything like that.

Like me and my wife, we don't hang out and we smoke or something like that. Like this is just something that I do as a transitional period where it's just me.

I have an hour to kill or or or let's say I got a drive for an hour or somewhere where I'm going and I'm going to be on the road driving for an hour.

All right. That's a good time for me to enjoy and smoke a cigar. Or let's say

I have an hour to read a book. You know, I'm going to sit on my porch, read the book and just relax and smoke a cigar.

You know, the it's nothing's going inside my lungs. I, you know,

I'm a grown man, you know, and and I'm joyfully thanking

God that I have this privilege to sit on my porch, to drive in the car or to go to the tobacco shop by my house, sit down, smoke a cigar, read a book, study the

Bible. Whatever that looks like. Or after I got done preaching and fellowshipping with the saints on my way home, you know, smoking a cigar, just relax and thanking

God that he has gifted me in this area to enjoy him in everything that I do.

I want people that are watching this to hear the difference between when we're saying about intentional time that we are putting aside to do

X, Y and Z activities such as cigar or participating and drinking some alcohol or whatever the example is.

Yeah. So let's touch on the alcohol. Absolutely. Go ahead. Yes. Yeah. I was just going to say with with that, I hope that you're hearing a difference between somebody else that might be talking about the same actions and saying, man,

I just get that taste in the back of my throat or or I just needed this for the day or I couldn't go another minute without that.

That's not what we're saying. We're saying that this is intentional time set aside that is not consuming us in those ways.

And so, yeah. Do you want to open up with alcohol stuff? Yeah. So, you know, a lot of like I've been saying this for years, if the outside world was to decide that it was sinful to comb your hair, then they would force

Christians not to comb their hair. Right. Listen, we can't call saying what the

Bible doesn't call sin. The Bible does not condemn drinking. Right.

If we say the Bible condemns drinking, we also have to say the Bible condemns eating, period.

Yeah. And most places in Scripture where it talks about drunkenness, it accompanies with the word gluttony.

Right. Now, I agree that we should not overeat. Right. I also agree that we should not be drunk or we should not, you know, drink to get drunk, you know, to be belligerent, you know, because I know growing up,

I used to drink like that. And I've done a lot of stupid things, blackout, wake up, black hour with with the busted knuckles or something like that.

You know, you just you never know. And and so I don't want you to hear me saying that I condone that, that I don't.

But as a pastor, if I walked into a restaurant and I saw Josh is watching right now,

Josh, he's a he's a deacon at the church. So if I walk in and saw him and his wife enjoying a beer,

I wouldn't say, oh, what are you doing, brother? I'm revoking your deaconship.

No, absolutely not. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. Matter of fact, I wouldn't think anything about it. Matter of fact, I'd probably say

I'd probably go and say your next one's on me or something like that. You know, sit down and enjoy one with you, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, me and Josh have sat down and enjoyed cigars together, you know, as brothers in Christ.

And, you know, we shouldn't condemn what people what the Bible doesn't. But the Bible does condemn drunkenness.

The Bible does condemn gluttony. Now, now let's look at it like this real quick. So the

Bible condemns drunkenness and the Bible condemns gluttony. Yet we

Americans have three meals a day and snacks in between. Now, if I told you that I had if I drank three different periods of the day with a shot in between, are you hearing me?

I'm hearing you. All right. What's but you see what

I'm saying? Absolutely. I love it. All right. Personally, like to me, so before this podcast aired,

I mean, before we started this podcast, I was I was working with being on another podcast with another group.

I came up with the name for their podcast. I was doing everything. They ended up rejecting me because I smoke cigars.

And I posted a picture of me with a cigar. Yet they would have had no problem if that picture was me at a restaurant with a steak in front of me.

It's wrong, brother, like it's wrong. It's wrong to judge your brother in that way.

You know, whether it be a cigar or or whether it be a beer. When we as Americans have three meals a day and snacks in between.

Yeah, we're one of the richest countries in the world. There's some there's some countries where people don't have a meal a day.

The meal that they do get, it's from a it's at a dump site. Right.

But we spoiled Americans have three meals a day with snacks in between. And then we get on Facebook and we talk about someone smoking a cigar, two or three cigars a week and talk about their

Christianity. Or or we see them have a a beer or so, you know, whether it be watching a fight at a at a at a at a, you know, a restaurant like our church.

We serve wine. Right. If you come to the Covenant Reformed Baptist Church in Tallahamma, Tennessee, and we have communion, it's wine.

Now, there is an option for juice, but we have wine. How many churches you go to that would do that?

I'm working on it. I hope to get there at some point. I really do. You know, so so one of the stigmas about Christianity is the fact that that saying is true.

Don't don't drink, don't smoke and don't go with girls that do. You know, don't drink, don't chew and don't go with girls that do.

Well, and that view has influenced nonbelievers to even how they should view a

Christian. If they hear a Christian, that is somebody that smokes or somebody that drinks or whatever those those legalistic type of mindsets are immediately.

You can't be a Christian. I mean, I've I've even heard I've heard people say you can't be a Christian, have a beard like because then their mind, that's what they've shaped what a

Christian is like. You can't do that. In fact, because the idea is, is that there it's a false equivalency fallacy, right?

I see a drunkard drinking a beer and that's an unbeliever. And I'm going to view that person this way.

Then I see this this Christian have a beer in his hand. He has to be the same thing. It has to be both sin.

It has to be both worldly. No, I just because Hitler had a mustache does not mean that you can point at me and say

I'm Hitler or or associate myself in those ways to him. That that's wrong.

That that's a that's a logical fallacy. And in fact, you know, I think some of it because a lot of a lot of Christians will have the mindset.

OK, when I when I was saved, this is how I acted when I was unsaved. I can't have any visual like what

I had before. Well, why are you wearing clothes then? Because you're still wearing clothes every time you go out of the house.

Right. Right. And a good example of something like that is is for myself when I was saved prior to being saved,

I didn't drink coffee. I didn't smoke. I didn't drink or anything. So actually, when I was saved, it was the complete opposite.

When I do those things, it doesn't look like the world to me. It doesn't look like my legalistic world.

Yeah. So what people don't realize about you as a Mormon and, you know, it wasn't that you didn't do them, but it was the reason why you didn't do it.

I earn in favor. Exactly. And they were using it in the same reasons that many

Christians try to argue not to doing those things. Well, you don't want to look like that. You don't want to look like the world.

You don't want to look like the world. And so you got to realize that this is legalism. This is legal or legalism.

And a lot of it stems, especially in the United States, from the Prohibition days. Is that that's so this is what

Bible is. This is what it's exactly. And that's why you don't see a lot of that stuff that's in other continents.

From what I've been told, I've never been there to other continents, but I've heard that you don't see this kind of legalism that you have here in the

United States. It would be nothing to go to Ireland and walk into a pub and the people in the pub are singing psalms, singing hymns and drinking beer.

Now I want to go to Ireland. Yeah. Right. But if but which which

I've been saying, so there's this little restaurant down the street from us and they have like a little bar area and they have a stage where you can, you know, play, play music and stuff.

Talking, you know, man, I would really love to go Ireland pub style in this place and, you know, have a night, one night a month where we read psalms and sing psalms and sing hymns while drinking beer as a church together to as a way to meet our community.

And I can just imagine all the churches around here hating us for this because they bought into American revivalism.

You know, when I meet people, especially when they see that they hear that I'm a pastor, you know, like and I'm always associated with the

American church, the American revivalism. My daughter's trying to sneak up on me and, you know, and when they ask the question, because for the most part,

I don't hide anything. Right. I am who I am. And I am this way to the glory of God.

I don't try to hide anything. I don't I don't try to shove stuff down people's throat. I just I am who

I am. I'm an ex gangbanging pimp that God saved that he's removed me from the filth.

And what I do today, whether it's when I hang out with my kids or if I'm with my wife or if I'm at the church, whatever it is right now,

I'm doing this podcast for the glory of God. Amen. Right. It's not for my glory.

It's for the glory of God. Everything that I do, I'm going to do it for the glory of God. I agree. All right.

So let's move. You have anything to say? I was going to say the exact same thing. Let's move on to the next one. All right.

So the next question is, and I do believe this is one that you are most excited about.

So you can take off with it is biblical concerns and objections.

So the two objections that I have always heard in the years

I've been saved and things that I've heard just from around me is the first one is that I got to write it right now here.

So the first one is that your body is a temple. Right. And the second one is that you're a stumbling block because many of these type of people admit,

OK, you're right. It doesn't explicitly say those things in the Bible. In fact, X, Y and Z examples.

Right. But you shouldn't do these things as a stumbling block to your brother or sister. Right. And those those verses are coming from First Corinthians, chapter 12 or chapter six, verse 12 and Romans 14, verse 21.

So I don't know if we want to open those up and talk about them a little bit or. Yeah. And I got a quote.

So I was listening to wretched radio and he named off for he was supposed to name all four things.

He only did two. I think only one was relevant. And it's about Christian liberty,

Christian liberty. He said Christian liberty must never be flaunted.

And basically what he was getting at. It's OK if you smoke your cigar.

It's OK if you have your beer, but. Don't tell anyone.

Don't show pictures. Don't do it in public. So basically what this other

Christian is wanting us to do. Is to hide, hide it.

And I've never heard that. Yeah. So to me, this is like if I have to hide something,

I shouldn't be doing it. That's hypocrisy. Yeah. All right. If I feel like I have to hide something,

I shouldn't be doing it. You know, when I used to smoke weed. I, you know, smoked it where I want no cops around.

Why? Because you're breaking the law. I was breaking the law. You didn't want to get caught. I didn't want to get caught.

You felt guilty about it, right? Yeah. I mean, there's times. Yeah. Depends on how good the weed was, right?

And so because I, you know, I knew that this is something that I could not do openly.

Especially when I became a Christian, like, you know, like I just. You know, if you have to hide, you shouldn't do it.

And so that's all I was thinking about whenever he was saying this. But the verse he gave for this was in Romans 14.

Yeah. Verse 22. If you want to read. Yeah. Read 21 and 22 together.

Absolutely. So Romans 14 verse 20 through 22.

It says, do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things are indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.

It is good not to eat meat or drink to drink wine or to do anything which which your brother stumbles.

The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

But he who doubts is condemned if he eats because he is eating not from faith and whatever is not from faith is sin.

Yeah. And so this is coming right off the heels of verse 17, where it says for the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the

Holy Spirit. Basically, what the writer is trying to get from the

Christians, what it's the same thing that most of the books are getting at is unity among the brothers. You know, so at this time, it was those who did not eat meat and those who only ate vegetables and those who ate meat, vegetables, everything.

So I could be wrong here. I haven't done too much digging, but I know at this time the

Jews did not eat meat. And so the weaker brother here could be the

Jew, while the Gentile were openly eating meat. Right.

And and so again, but this is the idea of meat. So it's not talking about cigars, though it is talking about drinking wine.

So wine is included. And Paul goes on to say, if my eating meat causes my brother to stumble, then

I shall not eat meat. But with this man who made this quote earlier, tell me to eat my meat in private.

Like when I eat a piece of steak, hide. All right.

So so let's say I have 10 vegetarians on my Facebook page.

All right. I got close to 5000 friends. I got four thousand two hundred something friends.

Right. I could have 10 people on there that don't eat meat. Yeah. All right.

So if I post a picture of me with a steak, am I am I causing them to stumble?

That's the mindset of some people is that, yes, you would be causing them to stumble. Like, I just don't know where, you know, like when you uncover where does it begin and where does it end?

Yeah. You know, in this this line that we're talking about, that's being drawn by some people.

OK, how do I know that somebody's fasting a day and I'm out eating a burger in front of them?

I don't know that. So am I causing them to break their fast because I didn't know something? What about the diabetic that is diabetic because they have self -induced eating too much sugar over the years?

And so they've had an onset of type two diabetes. And so therefore they're now dieting to save their life and they're done with sugar.

They're done with it. So to help their life out. Would it be sinful for me to be going and getting ice cream with my with my son?

Somebody that doesn't have diabetes, that's enjoying something in those ways, right? The example.

OK, another great example, a great example of an addiction, because that's what people are worried about when we talk about alcohol and smoking is addiction.

A great example of addiction is money. Spending money can be an addiction for people. And it has been for a very long time.

And it's very prevalent today. Is it OK for me to go and put gas in my vehicle, not knowing if there's somebody that's addicted to money around me or go to the store and buy clothes at the shopping mall or whatever the example is?

Is that wrong for me to do those things? Is it wrong for me to take a picture inside a store doing those things?

Is it wrong for you to be in public, holding hands with your wife, knowing there's people that have porn addictions?

A great example. Is it OK for me to bring my kids out of the house knowing that there might be pedophiles around?

Like the examples just go on and on and on and on. And where does it end?

Ultimately, if we want to take a super hard legalistic stance, I'm going to I'm going to go move up in the mountains, never come out of my house and never let anybody know where I'm at.

It's going to prohibit me from being able to actually share the gospel in those ways, because I'm not I'm now too concerned about all that type of stuff.

Another another great example of of so somebody that's addicted to sex, so adultery, whatever the fornication, whatever the example is in those ways.

Is it not OK for that person to get married and have sex within the bounds of marriage with their wife or their husband?

Is that not OK? Because they used to be addicted to those things. You can't you can't just say just because it's

X, then you can't have that. That that doesn't work in those ways. Yeah, there's a lot of different ways that we can go along with this.

But with specifically with smoking and alcohol, especially in the quote that you're talking about with Wretched Man, don't hide your don't hide what you're doing, because if I'm not mistaken, he these four points came from Sinclair Ferguson.

OK, but Wretched was kind of talking about it. So Todd was kind of talking about it on the show,

Wretched. But again, the whole time I was listening to it was thinking hiding is the answer.

No, if it's wrong, then we don't do it. All right. If you feel the need to hide it, it's probably wrong.

If you feel the need to hide it from your neighbor, it's probably sin. Right. Because you don't want them viewing you in those ways.

Right. I have no problem in saying that I enjoy a beer. I have no problem saying that I enjoy a cigar.

I thoroughly I had a really good brother of mine in Christ bring me some

Guinness the other day, a couple of weeks ago or two weeks or so ago.

And I'm telling you, man, I pour one of those Guinness stouts out and or in a glass.

And I study the Bible and after three hours and I'm still sipping on it. Like people don't understand.

I enjoy that kind of stuff. We're not over here. We're having keg parties. No, by no means are we doing that.

Just like how I would advocate for somebody to have their marriage with with sex being in the way that marriage provides.

Likewise, I would give that advice to an individual. Do not go into drunkenness.

Enjoy that which God has given you. Do not go into addiction and be consumed by a smoke.

Don't be consumed by it. But you can consume those things safely. And for God's glory, as long as you're not being consumed by it,

I think is a good way of looking at it. Yeah, I think it's a perfect way of looking at it.

And so, like, I would add to this. So what

I think would be a good application for this is, let's say that I'm going out to eat with a buddy.

And I know that he he was an alcoholic. If I order beer, knowing this,

I think I'm in the wrong. I agree with that. All right. Now, there's nothing wrong with me having a beer.

But knowing that my buddy was an alcoholic and ordering a beer in front of him.

That's sin. OK, because I'm intentionally doing something that I know he struggles with.

So if I'm going to a restaurant or let's say with smoking, if I'm around someone and they truly believe smoking is a sin.

You know what I'm not going to do around them? Probably not going to smoke. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not.

Because this is something that I do to enjoy myself to the glory of God.

Why am I going to do it to pick a fight with someone? Yeah. It takes the enjoyment away.

Yep. I mean, even if you think about what a stumbling block is, a literal stumbling block, whether it's behind a person or in front of a person.

But it's being placed there so that the person falls. Yeah. It's intentional. It's intentional.

It's intentional. And so to give you a good example, as I was smoking a cigar, walking to the park with my wife because I was wanting to study some stuff.

And so I was like, I'm going to have a nice cigar as I go to the park with my family as I start studying these things. And I ran into some

LDS missionaries because they see it as sinful doesn't mean it is sin.

And I think there's a great example of this in the text in Luke chapter 7.

And this is where a stumbling block is meant only for the Christian.

It doesn't mean that how the world is going to perceive my actions determines if I'm Christian or not or determines if it's sinful or not.

And the reason this is, and if you're thinking is, okay, if the world, the unconverted world sees a

Christian walking into the liquor store, the big smoke, the grocery store and is getting alcohol and is walking out.

How does the world view that Christian? That Christian is sinning.

That's how a lot of people will try to argue this. Well, Luke chapter 7 verses, let's see here.

What did I write down? Luke 7 verse 34 says this, the son of man has come eating and drinking.

And now this is speaking of the book, the Pharisees behold. And you say, behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax gatherers and sinners.

Was it sinful for Jesus Christ to be eating and drinking in front of unconverted men?

No, no, absolutely not. Is it sinful for Jesus to be accused of being a drunkard?

No, that is what somebody else is accusing him of. And so likewise, as a

Christian, we have this liberty to be free in our conscience, to glorify

God and the liberties that we have, knowing that maybe if I am addicted to cigars,

I'm not going to be around cigars. I'm not going to be smoking them. And that might be what I personally have.

But I know that the world does not dictate what is sin and isn't sin for me.

And so for the Christian to go into the grocery store and come out with beer just because you're being accused by the outside world does not mean that it is sin for you to be doing those things.

Right. Because that's what they're there for. Yeah. It's a concept that that's really new in history.

Right. I mean, we're talking 1800s, 1900s, late 1800s, early 1900s when all this came about.

That having a drink, again, not being belligerent, not having keg parties, not walking around, blacking out drunk, that stuff's wrong.

Yep. Amen. But having a glass of wine at a restaurant, having a beer at a restaurant, watching the fight, watching the football game, whatever it is, having an alcoholic beverage.

The church never condemned this until revivalism came into play.

Yeah. All right. Now what else came into play with this? Pietism, not piety, not piety, pietism, where you would look to your own self, your own performance to see if you have a true relationship with God.

Ladies and gentlemen, if you're looking to yourself, you fail. Okay. I don't care what your best day looks like.

You fail miserably. Piety, good. You want to be holy to the glory of God.

You want to live a moral life for the glory of God.

Yeah. But you cannot. That's why we had to have a substitute.

That's why Jesus came. So the church never condemned wine, having an alcoholic beverage, but until late 1800s, 1900s came into play.

And that's really where American Christianity kicked off. And that's where you get the don't smoke.

We're going to do grape juice for communion. Yeah. So they removed the wine from communion and put in grape juice.

Like, and people I think are surprised by this. Ecclesiastes chapter nine, verse seven says,

Go then eat your bread in happiness and drink your wine with a chill heart for God already approved your works.

Even the priests, the Levitical priests were commanded to drink the wine of the vineyard. Right. Drinking is explicitly said in the

Bible. Somebody posted Nick Shepard. And I completely agree with what you've been saying prior to this as well as this. Give strong drink to the one who is perishing in wine for those in bitter distress.

There's even applications for alcohol to people. And so to just immediately say, well, drinking is associated with these kind of people.

You're not to do it. No, I think as a Christian, we need to actually show the world. This is

God's blessing. And I get to glorify him in these things. And not only that, but to the question number two with the objections.

If that's your conclusion from reading chapter 14 of Romans and chapter six of first Corinthians about your body being a temple and a stumbling block for your brother.

The issue then is that we have clear contradictions in the Bible because we are told to drink. We are told it's allowable.

We're told not to be mastered by it, but we're told to be able to partake in those things. And so if you're saying that we are to partake or that you're saying we're not to ever partake, then you're explicitly denying what the rest of scripture has said.

And you're saying that there's contradictions in it. And may it never be. The answer in these kind of texts are according to the context.

And it's saying not to be intentionally being a stumbling block for your brother. And as a temple in that text, even the context answers those things.

First Corinthians chapter six. I'm in Colossians.

First Corinthians chapter six would have helped if I was already here. First Corinthians. Yeah. First Corinthians chapter six.

I got tabs on my preaching level so I can just move it like a maneuver. My friend calls them Pharisee tabs because that way you can look whole smart because you know where all the pages are.

It's great for preaching because you can navigate real quick. So much faster.

But verses 12 on it says all things are lawful for me but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me but I will not be mastered by anything.

That's key. I will not be mastered by anything. Food is for the stomach. Yet the stomach is for the food.

But God will do away with both of them. Yet the body is not for immorality but for the Lord. And the

Lord is for the body. Now God has not only raised the Lord but will also raise us up through his power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?

Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? May it never be.

Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a harlot is one body with her?

For he says the two will become one flesh. But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with him.

Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body. But the immoral man sins against his own body.

Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

That is not speaking of anything to do with alcohol. That's speaking of you not being immoral to your own body or immoral to just saying don't be tying yourself to the member of a harlot because you're a member of Christ.

You're not a part of that anymore. You're now a member of Christ. It's not saying anything about smoking or drinking at all.

I'll tell you what does address drinking, and that's the qualification of a deacon.

It says deacons likewise must be dignified, not double -tongued, not addicted to much wine.

So it's okay to drink wine, but you're not to be addicted to much wine.

At this time, I think it was probably about 12 years ago, I was doing a study about wine and juice at the time of the first century.

And I do believe at the end of the day, my understanding was that it was almost nearly impossible to have grape juice in Jerusalem because the moment that you would bust the grape, it fermented.

Because of the humidity or something that was around there.

So having grape juice at that time was nearly unheard of. It was wine because a lot of people make the argument that it wasn't wine, that it was only grape juice.

Jesus turned wine into grape juice. No, Jesus turned water into wine.

The argument was he turned it to grape juice, but no, Jesus turned it into wine, the best wine.

Now think about the context of it. He says that people save the best wine into last.

I mean, the best wine first, because actually you have much wine.

I mean, I can remember this back when I used to drink a lot. I started out with the good stuff, and then whenever I was already wasted, bring in the red dog or whatever.

The Mad Dog 2020. Yeah, Mad Dog 2020 or whatever, the nasty stuff. But you couldn't taste it after you were lit, right?

And the master of the feast was like, you brought the best wine last.

And so this other stuff that they were drinking could not compare to what

Jesus created from water. As a matter of fact, it was probably filthy water. It was put into purification pots.

So, I mean, it is what it is. But yeah, the

Bible does not condemn drinking. If it did, then it condemns eating.

Everywhere where it does condemn, it's not drinking, but it's much drinking.

It's being a drunkard. It also condemns gluttony. And so to say that Christians are not supposed to have a glass of wine or a glass of beer is to also say we are not allowed to eat.

We are on a permanent fast. We're born and then we'll shrivel away and die.

So if you want to go on to this third question. Yeah, let's do it. Not really a question, but just something we'll...

So the pastoral care and discipleship. So you and I are pastors of a church, right?

We know how we feel about this. We have a stance that we take on this.

We do not believe it's wrong for us to have a cigar. We do not believe it's wrong for us to have a glass of wine at a restaurant to enjoy our significant other.

Now, how do we navigate our liberty and also being a pastor?

Because of these concerns we just addressed are real concerns.

We're not saying that these are not real concerns. Someone just put down here our tattoos.

Leviticus 18, 19. Do not tattoo or pierce yourselves for the dead.

I was preaching on the soapbox one day and this gentleman comes running up to me.

And he saw me preaching. He gets out of his vehicle, stops his vehicle, gets out and wants me to understand that the

Bible says that you should not tattoo yourself. And I'm up there on that box preaching.

And I said, sir, did you just cut your hair? He said, yeah, military.

I said, well, hey man, thanks for serving our country. I said, but did you just cut your hair? He said, yeah. I said, did you read the verse right above the one you quoted to me where it says not to cut the edges of your hair or tamper with your beard?

So you just shave and cut your hair. And you're dogging me because I have tattoos.

I think we need to understand the context of everything dealing with the old covenant and the new covenant.

Amen. But, yeah, so I stand in the pulpit week after week. I don't wear long sleeves.

I don't wear a suit. I'm not trying to hide at all who

I am. With tattoos, you know,

I don't smell like cigar in a pulpit, but after everyone leaves, I smoke. I mean, there's a good chance.

I mean, after after church is past the Lord's Day, I went over to a member's house and hung out with him for a minute on my way there.

I smoked a cigar, had it in my hand while I was ministering over there, hanging out with him, talking to his dad, stuff like that.

Like, I'm not like I don't know what you're looking for. Right. But at the same time, at the same time,

I knew that these guys don't struggle with this issue. Yeah. As a matter of fact, the guy that I went over and hung out with met met with me at a cigar shop and we had a cigar together before.

So I knew it was OK to go to his house smelling like a cigar because we smoked one together.

Yeah. But again, you and I as pastors, how do we navigate these waters?

Now, I know something that Haps, myself and Austin Hammers are working on is we're working on a biblical recovery discipleship program.

And so it's basically a disciple. So it's called Remedy. And so it's basically a discipleship program, a recovery program through biblical discipleship, because we want to help people that that struggle.

But we want to do it correctly. All right. We don't want to lead them to believe that they have to stop drinking because that's

Satan. Right. No, I mean, and I'm not telling them never to have a drink.

I am telling them that you never be belligerent, never be drunk. Do not drink to get drunk.

Doing that. That is sin. Stop it. All right. You know, as Christians, we were not to do that.

But just navigating these waters, I think I think first we need to personally.

I think about us as in parenting and you can chime in when you want to. Yeah. I have to have two sons.

I have to model for them what it's like to be a man.

Right. They have to see me being a man.

Right. They need to see what a man looks like. They need to see what a man does.

They need to to to to understand hard work. They need to see daddy working.

They need to see daddy praying. They need to see daddy reading the

Bible. They need to see dad loving and taking care of things, paying bills, like like doing what

I'm supposed to do. That way, when they get old, I say, you know, well,

I'm a man. My dad was man. I, you know, I need to do what my dad was doing.

My dad was responsible. He loved Jesus. He read his Bible. He prayed.

He worked. He put food on the table. He paid. He paid the bills. What else did he do?

Well, he smoked a cigar and he drank a little. I mean, he had a beer, but but but but he never.

Like, we never saw him do this every day. We never saw him act out of character.

We never saw him throwing up in the toilet. We never saw him not waking up until the next evening because he was just hung over.

We never saw those kind of things. Right. Right. There's a huge difference there. And so that's how we have to be as pastors, too.

And as people who want to lead people into recovery is to show them how to live as humans, you know, as men and women, as as adults.

You know, a lot of people want to grow. I say this a lot. I still believe a lot of people want to grow up, but they don't want to pay bills.

Everyone wants to grow up, but no one wants to pay bills. I know a lot of grown ups who haven't.

I know a lot of adults. Yeah, let me say it this way. I know a lot of old people who haven't grown up.

I think it's a better way to say it. I know people my age who I grew up with, who never grew up, who still live the same way we lived when we were 16.

All right. But still showing like the pants never got pulled up.

You know, it's it's cussing here, cussing there. Seeing a good comment.

Yeah. How do I feel? OK, so let me answer this question real quick.

Let's do it. So this is one sensitive to me. This lady is very special to me.

I'm not sure if she wants me to acknowledge who she is. I'll respect her. So how do you feel about homosexuals?

Well, this is how I feel. I feel that homosexuality is an identity.

I used to be a gangbanger. I used to pimp my cousin out for money.

And other women. And so the Bible names off this like a list of identities that you would call sinful.

So like murderers, homosexuals, stuff like that.

What it is is an identity. So. Now that I'm in.

Now that I'm a Christian. I don't say I'm a gangbanger.

Right. Like I don't say. Hey, what's up? My name is Jeff. And I.

Present to them my click like, you know, I am, you know, like normally it's like some initials say like.

G. D. or I. G. D. or like just something like us.

A. P. G. like this is something like that that representative again. So, you know, like growing up, that's how it was, you know, seven, four, seven, four, fourteen, nine, seven, four, like just abbreviations of something you could say that people would know what you represent.

And so like, but but but what it was was my identity.

Right. Just like I'm a father of being a father is an identity. Being a husband is an identity.

All right. Being a gangbanger was an identity. But once I became a

Christian, I no longer identified myself as a gangbanger. All right.

And that's what the Bible speaks about when it comes to at this at this at this at this part where it talks about those who do this will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

The kingdom of heaven is is is being a Christian. You're on Earth.

You are a Christian. So if you're a Christian, you cannot be a murderer, active murderer.

If you're a Christian, you cannot be an active drug dealer. You cannot be an active person that steals.

You cannot be an active homosexual. All right. Now, as Christians, we are to love all people.

Right. I, I love absolutely every human being on this planet.

Homosexuals, non -homosexuals, gangbangers, non -gangbangers, non -gangbangers, murderers, non -murderers.

I love all people. Right. However, I'm not to condone the behavior of a thief.

I'm not to condone the behavior of a murderer. And I don't have to condone the behavior of homosexuality.

It's an identity is what it is. So I don't hate homosexuals at all, though.

I don't have to condone the behavior. I don't have to hate them either. I don't have to to wish harm would come to them.

As a matter of fact, I wish that they I wish nothing but good would come to them.

I wish that they would have an experience like I had where where they have been, where they are able to take off the once held identity and to put on a new identity.

And that is in Christ. So my answer would be I love homosexuals. I pray for homosexuals.

I that I have homosexual friends. I was

I was I was a Christian before they were homosexual. Right. Just because they became homosexual doesn't mean

I have to not be a Christian because because I don't want to hurt their feelings. I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings.

But my identity is in Christ. And I really don't know how else to say it.

But I do pray for the salvation of those I know that are homosexuals.

I pray that they will remove that identity and that they would take upon themselves the identity of Christ.

I love it. So, again, as a pastor, we are to live out our lives and not shy away, not shy away from from what we are.

You know, and we are to show the those who are addicts that you can live, that that you can drink communion and it be wine to the glory of God.

As a matter of fact, there's a gentleman at our church who used to be an alcoholic. The Lord took it away from him.

And guess what? He has wine for communion and it doesn't bother him at all. We model this.

This is how we are to live. We model it. Amen. I love it.

I think that question of pastoral care and discipleship.

How do we how do we do those things? Right. I think the first thing that I would encourage someone to do, whether wherever you're at in life, wherever wherever you find yourself in your walk, be intentional and giving glory to God in all things.

Starting today, whatever that might be, be intentional about it. And if you can't do something unto the glory of God, you probably ought not to be doing those things.

You know, I and it's going to come back onto a lot of alcohol and stuff that I'm talking about right here.

But in verse 12 of well, let's read first Corinthians chapter six verses.

Let's just read verse 12. It says, all things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.

If you are mastered by something day, whether it be sugar, smoking, alcohol, money, sex, stop it.

Don't be mastered by those things. You have one master, Jesus Christ. Look to him for your salvation. Be saved by him today and leave those things that are bondage, slavery and the yoke behind.

Right. Run to the cross. Run to him. Now. As a pastor.

As as as a fireman, let me give you this example as a fireman, if I go on a very bad call, very bad.

Right. And I can't drive down a road where that bad call happened anymore to get home from work.

Without bawling and crying and feeling hopeless. I probably not going to drive on that road for a little while.

Right. In fact, I'd probably want people to advise me not to ride on that road for a little while.

But because I have Christ, I know where my hope is. I know where that God is sovereign. I'm going to run to him.

And maybe, maybe in the future, I will start going down that road and be able to glorify God as I'm on that road passing that said house.

Now, if that day doesn't come for me, I'm not going to have people want to encourage me to go down that if there is not a point in time where I can't get to that.

Right. And so for the alcoholic, for the addict, for whatever example it is, you have freedom in Christ and you have liberty in him.

But we are not to abuse those things. And if there's anything that makes you stumble, if there's anything that makes you hesitant, there's anything that you can't do in good conscience, don't do it.

Right. Don't do it. That would be sin for you to do something outside of the faith. Right.

But just like this podcast, Christian Liberty, don't smoke, don't drink, don't watch those that do. Right. Don't be on the legalism train that all

American Christians are. It seems like to accuse your brothers and sisters of committing sin when they are not.

Right. When they are doing something actually completely opposite than sin, and that is to glorify God in those said behaviors and actions and deeds.

Just because you can't do it does not mean that you can condemn somebody that does do it. Yeah. I'm going to be firm in that.

I'm going to be strong and say that is wrong and that is sinful. In fact, you're promoting legalism. You're not denying the master that bought you.

You're saying that Christ died needlessly when you're saying that that has to be done, that a Christian cannot smoke, that you that you have to do

X, Y and Z, that that is wrong. That's a false gospel. You need to stop and repent if you've done this previously.

Right. Hey, let me go back to that just for a second. Absolutely. The homosexual thing.

I don't feel like I gave it any justice. No, I think you did great on it. But yes, I just want to make a point.

And I made it earlier dealing with the old covenant and new covenant. So under the old covenant, the old covenant,

I'm trying to think of a way to explain it to where someone just coming into this understanding will understand the old covenant was made with an earthly kingdom people.

And so this would have been the Hebrews at that time. And so under the old covenant would have been the 10 commandments given at Mount Sinai.

And on the back of the commandments were written. What would what would be called depending on your translations, it would be called statutes and rules.

The the don't do is do this and don't do that type of a thing. And so and so this was the mosaic covenant, the the old covenant.

Right. And so and under that were talked about shaving your head or tattoos.

So tattoos at this time wouldn't be tattoos like we know of.

Now, the word is the same, but it's not the same. So tattoos at this time would have been ink made out of ash.

And it wouldn't have been like a needle, but it would have been like sharp rocks and they would cut into themselves.

Like, like, like, like we see this today, like someone's emotionally hurt.

They don't know how to handle the emotional pain, so they take a razor and cut themselves.

And so the verse talks about cutting yourselves for the dead, tattooing and cutting yourselves for the dead.

So someone they love would die. They would take a rock with ash on it and they would gash into themselves.

And so this is what other nations were doing. God told the

Hebrews they are not to do these things. OK, now, I don't think that they should still be doing those things.

I want to get that straight. But but but I made a comment earlier concerning pork.

So under the old covenant, the Jews were not allowed to have pork.

All right. Now, before the old covenant was ever established, the promise of a better covenant was given.

And that this promise is what theologians call the covenant of grace.

So before the Mosaic covenant was established, they were told that a covenant of grace was coming.

All right. And so the covenant of grace is actually the covenant of works.

So the old covenant is the covenant of works. The covenant of grace is the covenant of works fulfilled and accomplished on our behalf.

So so if you're living after Jesus Christ came, Jesus Christ came and he established the covenant of grace.

The covenant of grace was told that an offspring would come from a woman that would bruise the head of the serpent while only bruising his heel.

This is foreshadowing the cross of Jesus Christ. When Jesus Christ was crucified, this is him bruising the head of the serpent while only bruising his heel.

So so so this is the establishment of the covenant of grace.

After this takes place, Peter receives a vision telling him that he is now allowed to eat pork, basically.

Right. Why? Because all the rules, the rules and stipulations that were given under the old covenant,

Jesus kept. He lived the life that we could not live, and because he kept that covenant.

And he died as a substitute in our place. You my righteousness is not my righteousness.

So the righteousness that I have, I have in Christ. So when when

I'm judged, when I die and when God judges me, it won't be a a a book that comes out with all my false or my faults and failures and every bad thing that I've ever done in my life.

But it will be what Christ done on my behalf. This is the new covenant, the covenant of grace.

And under the new the new covenant, the covenant of grace, we have freedom that the old covenant people were not able to enjoy.

Now, the New Testament speaks against homosexuality.

It does not speak against eating meat. The tattoos in the

Old Testament are not what we have on us now. All right. Now, if you say that you need to get a tattoo because you're in pain and you because you have emotional pain and you just need to feel something, then you don't need a tattoo.

You're sinning badly. All right, because that's actually what it's talking about.

If if you need to cut into yourself because of emotional pain, that's what that's addressing.

Yeah. Not actually putting, you know, you know, that there was furniture in the temple.

All right. I tell people I'm just decorating the temple. But I mean, for the most part,

I had all these tattoos before I came to Christ, but I'm not against tattoos. I'm against anything.

I'm against any identity that takes me from Christ. So so so, you know,

I roof houses for. For twenty five years and for a long time when

I would introduce myself, I would introduce myself as a roofer. And then one day

I got convicted because I had that was my identity.

And once that conviction hit me, I no longer identified myself to people as a roofer. I didn't

I always identified myself as, hey, what's my name is Jeff. And if it came any further than that, you know, yeah,

I'm a Christian. My identity is in Christ, nothing else.

That's a beautiful way of saying it. I love it. Yeah. All right.

Anything else? I I feel like we thoroughly talk through this.

I really do. Yeah. Yeah, me too. I'm bummed out we didn't have haps, though.

I am bummed out about that. I'm bummed out, too. I love haps. Yeah, we definitely need to be praying for haps.

He has a lot that he has to go through with that with his ministry.

We lift him up. I'm going to be honest with you. I'm not sure if I could do what he does.

Oh, man. Right. I mean, God has gifted that man to do that work.

And it's cool. It's very cool. Now, I definitely want to I definitely want to help out in that kind of work.

That's why I came. That's why I'm writing the book Remedy. Yeah, because that's what it's about.

Biblical discipleship recovery through biblical discipleship. And haps has been implementing it.

We still have a lot of curriculum we got to get done. Stuff like that.

And come up with the money to publish it. I'm excited to see it when it's done. I really am. Yeah, me too, man.

Yeah, I am, too. But I think that's in my, I want to say two year plan, but it could be my five year plan.

So I'm kind of trying to figure it out. Right now, the only thing I can really focus on is our church getting a building.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Sweet. Sweet. So any last words?

You know, I, I'm going to just pull a Pastor Haps right now and say glorify

God and enjoy him. I think that's fitting for today's topic, too. That is fitting.

Glorify God and enjoy him forever. And as always, hallelujah, holla back.