Dealing with Depression | Rapp Report Weekly 0027 | Striving for Eternity

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All right. All right. Well, welcome to another rap report this week.

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We're gonna talk about well The topic most people don't want to talk about in the church actually not even outside of the church

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But yet many people struggle with it alone. We're gonna talk about the topic of Depression so you're really gonna want to stay tuned even if you think you're not suffering from depression

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You're gonna find that many people in your church do Welcome to the rap report with Andrew Rappaport.

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We provide biblical interpretations and applications This is a ministry of striving for eternity and the

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Christian podcast community for more content or to request a speaker for your church Go to striving for eternity dot org

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All right. Well, welcome back to the rap report. We've had some special guests on You guys have been listening.

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We've had Conversations about the role of the pastor with Gabe Hughes this week.

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We had a special episode that was supposed to drop a couple weeks ago drop midweek We gave you an extra with Pastor Josh Bice and so now we have someone who's not a pastor but is gonna have a lot of good information and I want to introduce to you to my listeners

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Amy and I'm she we already talked I'm gonna probably get the name wrong, but I'm gonna try Amy Montravada much of Okay, correct me you you started so strong it's mantra body mantra body

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That's what but you got the first part, right? Usually that's what trips people up. So yeah

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Well, so so Amy and I and and Amy did you recognize the voice by the way on the intro?

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No, I did not. Oh, well, that was one John Wilkinson And and so, you know that name

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No bringing that name up, I think don't you and I have a little beef

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I think right We we should at least you and I are honorary members of the council That is correct.

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And and yet have you been invited to they've been having meetings again. Have you been invited? So a few months back

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John Wilkinson did say to me hey You haven't been coming to the council meetings or you go to cover dad and I forget

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I probably gave him some lame excuse like I've got a bunch of stuff going on, but yeah,

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I haven't heard since then and Brian Forbes who's Also in my reform

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Baptist discussion group hasn't mentioned anything about it. So Yeah, I'm not really feeling love so much.

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Yeah. Yeah, I think I think the council's in session But they don't want their honorary members to be there.

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Maybe it's council members only Well, I am a council member because when

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I was on I told them that at the beginning of Star Wars Episode 3 revenge of the

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Sith when Anakin is Asked to be on the Jedi Council.

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They only give him sort of a pseudo position on the council

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They won't make him the rank of master and that's when everything bad that happened in that movie started happening

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And he turned into Darth Vader so I was made an honorary member of the council, but they still haven't

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Really incorporated me and acknowledged my talents So I bad things bad things are ready to happen for the council, huh?

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you know, I'm being tempted by the dark side daily and I Don't think anyone can predict what will happen

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Yeah, and for folks who are not familiar with the council council used to be a council of Google Plus they used to do a live video after Matt and I would do our show and Then they would do turn it into a podcast and Amy and I used to get on there

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Every once in a while and they it was just a free -for -all discussion on different topics

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Usually on Sunday nights they take wherever Matt and I left off And it would be a free -for -all and like we're

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Matt and I were a controlled environment theirs was not and folks who are regular listeners know

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Vincent and John their regular voices here and They're two of the members of the council that started that and so Amy and I like to used to like to get in there

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We haven't been in in a while But they are they are recording again, and I just I don't think they're podcasting it, but they are doing it

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Discord and so that's where I think I first heard of you was in the council and So you have so let's start off for folks who don't know you you have a book out at least one that I remember and It was

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I don't know if he I know you're I think working on a second But there the there are

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Chronicles right the Chronicles of Maude Where's the yes? So this is a series of historical fiction novels that I've been writing about a

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Real person her name was Empress Maude or sometimes called Empress Matilda she lived in England and for a while in Germany during the 12th century which is

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Around the period of the Crusades So she is noted for being the first and this is a spoiler alert

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So put it on mute if you don't want to hear She's noted for being the first woman to ever make a claim to the throne of England in her own, right?

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So that's part of what makes her so interesting to history that she fought a decade -long Civil war with her cousin for the throne of England But I became interested in her after I discovered that I was descended from her

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I did a lot of research in my genealogy and I had never heard of her when I found her name in my

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In my line, but then I did some research and said wow, she's got such a fascinating life so, um so I'm writing a series of three novels that tell the story of her life from her perspective and The first one was released

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Almost a year ago now it's available as an e -book on Amazon or you can have a hard copy printed and Then I've completed the draft of the second one

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I have someone set to edit that next month and then we'll see what happens from there and then

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I'm sort of working little here a little hit there on the third one, so Yeah, that that's the main kind of writing that I do and then

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I've also done I have a blog that I run and I've sucked away from that for most of this year to focus on the novels

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But I write about various Christian topics And I'm gonna link that in the show notes.

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It's as long as people can spell your last name. They can easily get to it But it's it's basically just your name .com.

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Amy Martavadi or a M y m a n t r a

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V a d i dot com. I was just trying to get make sure I got the pronunciation, right?

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It's okay You'll get it in the new heavens in the new earth Yes I'm waiting for that so so you you have some blog articles out there and So what

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I would like to do one a play commercial after that. I want to talk about the topic of depression

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It's something that you and I both have have struggled with and I think there's a lot more people in the church that struggle with it than most know

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So I want to discuss that after this commercial Looking for strategies that will help you engage in meaningful conversations with members of the

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Okay, and if I was smart I would have had my copy of that book right here so I could show it but oh

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No, I don't. Yeah, Amy's gonna show off her book. See she said I have my books over my shoulder, but But I don't have that one.

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I did contribute to that one You can also get that book if you're interested at striving for eternity store at striving fraternity org so Amy This is a topic depression.

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It's a it's one that most people don't really like to talk about and I've noticed that in the church at least my

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What I've noticed in being in church many years in Seminary and counseling classes will discuss it, but I don't see much discussed outside of Counseling sessions it with you know type of thing within the church unless the pastor struggles with it

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That's the only time I've you know see and yet when we look through history I mean you can look at almost any of the greats that you think of you

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Martin Luther Calvin is even Charles Spurgeon struggled greatly with Depression and I talked about this a little bit with Gabe Hughes when

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I had him on as far as pastors with burnout How that can it can't you can't suffer with depressions, of course

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He of course was just saying how great his church was and he has doesn't Suffer from any of that and the rest of us that have pastored and are just like being jealous, but Because we didn't experience that but give a little bit of your background as much as you want to share so folks understand your background and And I'm gonna share a little bit of mine as well.

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So they understand why we're bringing this up and how it affects folks Well my background in terms of Depression is

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I when I was in college, I went through a period of ill health and a

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Difficult time losing a member of my family. It was the first time I'd lost someone that closely related to me and Sort of out of that period.

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I began to struggle a lot with Both depression and anxiety and I know we're focusing on depression this podcast but one thing

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I usually say is Depression and anxiety tend to be pretty closely linked

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It's quite common to see people have aspects of both of them. So that's why I mentioned both depression and anxiety but I really struggled for a period there in college and fortunately,

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I had some very good friends that were able to help me through that period and Also My family was very supportive of me during that period

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I had a lot of people praying for me. And so I was able to Sort of make it through that first initial difficulty and Since then

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I mean that was more than a decade ago. Now. I've had significant periods where I've been relatively normal and not had much of a struggle but Particularly if I have some big life transition

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Or a particularly stressful period I do tend to experience symptoms of depression and anxiety once again and Particularly last year

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I was going through a lot of physical difficulties I had a condition that they were not able to diagnose right away

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So I was going to all these different specialists having various tests and it was a pretty stressful experience

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And I was spending a lot of time just at home feeling sick you know just laying on the couch because I couldn't do really anything else and as part of that period

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I began to really have a significant struggle with depression again probably

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I You know, it's hard to compare because you know, it never is exactly the same but I would say probably this past year

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Has been my most significant period of depression I've had more difficult anxiety in the past but in terms of the depression.

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This is probably been my most difficult year, so That's sort of my background that I've had with that in terms of my general background

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I Grew up in a Christian family in Michigan. I went to a

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Christian College Taylor University in Indiana I did my grad school in the

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UK and I then went to live for a while in Washington DC where I met my husband the

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Air Force transferred him to Ohio and so he retired from the Air Force, but we're still here in Ohio and I Worked from home doing my writing

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That's what I'm up to now So no, and I want to definitely get to later on in in this show

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Some of the things that helped you through the depression For my background and I know you and I didn't talk about this so much

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But my background most of my depression came out of ministry related things Where it sounds like yours is more from anxiety.

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Mine was ministry related My first depression that I went into was

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I was in a church for about Well, actually when it started I was there about nine months after it began and had been there for half dozen plus years and just I knew every single person that was in that church as they came in and Discipled many of them and we brought in a pastor who wasn't qualified for ministry and I picked up on that unfortunately kind of quick and And when

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I tried to work with him on on things I saw he went into immediate damage control and started to Go after me so that no one would hear anything that I I would say

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It was very interesting. I mean, I learned a lot from him in a bad way, but He immediately said, you know use the argument of being divisive and that way if you actually say anything

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It proves this point which was very creative It's great politically, but what ended up happening was

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I had to leave the church to prevent a split because the only choice that I felt

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I had was to stay in the church and cause a split and I love the church too much

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You know, I believe too much in the unity of the church to allow Myself being the reason that there'd be a split

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So I chose to leave the church as hard as it was and then I made a decision that I wasn't going to Really say anything bad or or you know,

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I didn't want to Say anything that would cause problems in the church or possibly give others a reason to think there's there's issues and I it was a period of very of loneliness.

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I mean I went from Being involved in these people's lives Every week on a regular basis to no contact at all and I went through a good year or two of depression after that and I had come out of that and we could talk we'll talk later on how that occurred, but I came out of that and And and I wouldn't say deep depression.

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I was kind of just always kind of bobbing up and down in it but After that,

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I got into another church situation similar thing where I had to leave and when I left I it was just this just again, not having anybody to to do so much my life is discipling others and there was no one there and The fact that I could leave and people weren't trying to reach out to find out why was

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I think the thing that hurt the most people I poured my life into but they didn't Seem as interested sometimes to pour it back and and for some that did

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I was so Tentative to not want to say anything that I was I was kind of on it.

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I put a hedge up and I Because of the counseling that I have and because of the training that I have it from my seminary.

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I Knew what I needed to do and and yet going through it has actually helped me more with counseling people in depression because Knowing the thing you need to do and doing it are two very different things and so You know, one of the things

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I want to talk about is you and I've both kind of struggle with it from our different perspectives What are some ways if you were in church?

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Well, let me ask this first. Do you think there's more people in church that struggle with depression than let on?

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Um, I think there's no question that there are a lot more people struggling this with this than we would think because It's part of the nature of depression that it's a very isolating condition it's a condition that can make people feel guilty and ashamed and particularly in the church when

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People feel that you know, they're supposed to be happy Have a joy in their faith and you know

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They come into a church service where the songs we sing are all very happy and upbeat, which is great

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I mean, we should be happy and upbeat about our faith, but there can be a subtle pressure on people who are experiencing great pain to not vocalize that for fear of Sort of bringing out other people down.

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I know when I've Been struggling with depression. I've been very hesitant to talk to other people about it for various reasons sometimes because You fear some of the comments you might get from people that are not very well informed sometimes because even to talk about it is difficult and Yeah, there are just different It's a condition that sort of Causes you to almost self -sabotage because one of the things that causes depression is

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Isolation and loneliness and it sounds like that's something you've experienced in your life when you were cut off from the community were a part of that was likely part of the reason that you were experiencing this depression and Unfortunately when you have depression

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You also sometimes don't feel like going out don't feel like participating in social functions, you know, or you don't you're afraid to open up to other people for various reasons, so You end up in a way sabotaging yourself because what you really need is community and fellowship but fear of Allowing people to see your vulnerability

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Allowing them to see that you don't have it, you know, quote -unquote altogether That you're not the perfect spiritual example

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Happy all the time that people are expecting It can cause you to cut yourself off further which only makes the condition worse

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So this is something we need to be aware of in the church It's a condition from from the statistics.

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I've seen Their Women are slightly more likely or a bit more likely than men to get depression but they are more likely than men to seek out some kind of treatment whether that be medical or counseling and There can be

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I think they're still in our culture is a bit of a stigma because depression is seen as a

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Mental illness as opposed to a physical illness. There is a stigma that surrounds that and Unfortunately that sometimes keeps people from pursuing the help that they need and Makes it makes the situation worse than it would be if they had been able to seek some kind of assistance

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And in my case in my second case, it was harder when I'm in a church I'm now as a pastor or one of the pastors, you know

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Pastors not supposed to struggle with this and then I'd read I would read of guys like Spurgeon and he would talk about a deep depression and you're like, oh he struggled with this, too

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No, and it is I mean the loneliness you brought up the fact that It is self -sabotaging.

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I don't think people recognize that. I mean, I I knew enough to know That I needed the fellowship.

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I needed to find ways to to have fellowship I knew one of the first things

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I did was tell my wife I mean what I could recognize I was going into a depression.

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I would tell her and Tell her what I would actually counsel her how to counsel me

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Which is so in that case is a little different because I you know, not everyone has the background of counseling the the thing though,

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I think We can spot people even though like you said pale try to put on that happy face.

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There are signs I think we can see with folks That could be struggling with it if we're getting involved in people's lives.

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That's a different issue that we have in the church Right is people aren't getting involved in others lives enough to be able to notice it

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And I told you before we went on air I had come the church that I'm at right now When I had gotten there and I used to be

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I used to be in leadership there many many years ago I got married in this church and I left and Ended up pastoring at some other churches and now

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I've come back and coming back to the church I was there maybe two three months, I believe teaching in the in the

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Wednesday night Bible study and there's a guy that was coming on a regular basis and Hadn't seen him for a while and come to find out.

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He had committed suicide and You know, I I remember when that happened

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I at first I was like Why didn't I recognize the signs and I realized why I didn't know him well enough I had just started coming back to the church.

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I didn't know everybody and he well enough that was new to me at least and But there are these things happen in church

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And I think there are signs that those of us are close to others could could if they're paying attention spot

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So let's talk. What are some of the signs? That you would notice if someone that is struggling and I'm gonna broaden it not just to depression, but you mentioned anxiety

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First what are some signs of anxiety and then what are some signs that could be leading to depression that you've noticed?

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Well probably an important thing to say starting out is that even if you do everything right, it may not always be possible to correctly spot when someone is having depression or anxiety because People don't always that they can put on a very brave face and they're very

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Desirous of not appearing to have any Vulnerabilities. So because of that they don't always give you a lot of opportunities to spot the signs

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But I do think that you've hit on Something important and this would be the first recommendation

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I would give that there has to be some kind of pre -existing relationship with people if You're expecting that people you just sort of say hi to in the hall once a week

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That you're going to be able to spot when they're having a difficulty with this probably not, you know if you have on the other hand made the kinds of Commitment that it takes to develop a real deep friendship with someone

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Not only will you be more aware of their behaviors and therefore be more aware of something seems off But also they will feel much more comfortable opening up to you if they're going through a difficulty

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I also think it's important for Churches to acknowledge suffering and there are different ways you can do that, but we know there are some churches and Various denominations maybe in particular, but it could pop up anywhere

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Where they sort of give this impression that if you are doing everything, right then of course

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God's going to bless you and of course good things are going to happen to you and But if things are going wrong, it must be because you sinned it must be because you don't have faith

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And this kind of thinking can you know, we usually if it's big and glaring and obvious we notice it

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But sometimes it can come in in more subtle ways in the fact Like I said that we don't usually have a lot of songs that we sing that Acknowledge the broken state of our world if you look at the

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Psalms, which is really, you know The hymn book of the Bible there are so many songs that are songs of lament and that Acknowledge the suffering that we have in this world.

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I was I was gonna say you're clearly not a Presbyterian who reads out of this altar Well It's true that I do not go to a

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Presbyterian or even that you know a church that identifies as reformed But I think whether and I'm not looking to get in a debate over whether we do exclusive Psalms or not

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Yeah, but you bring up the point the Psalms are very much Yeah, I think our our hymns should at least reflect

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If you choose to use hymns or worship choruses, they should be in line with the kind of Emotional states we're seeing in the

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Psalms where we have yes We do have the joyous Psalms which are so important where we remember the blessings that the

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Lord has given us But also where we acknowledge the suffering and sometimes if you go to a church where you never hear

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Suffering not usually mentioned in sermons. It's just you know constantly upbeat and you know, there's no acknowledgement of the difficulties that Godly people can face in their lives.

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That's another thing that can make you hesitant to watch you Shatter the veneer that your church is put up but in terms of I would say signs that someone might be experiencing a difficulty would be people who start disconnecting themselves from social activities

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That could be a sign of various problematic things, but one of them could be depression or anxiety

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Sometimes people I've known Who have been experiencing depression or anxiety?

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They may be at you may be at a social function with them But they just seem to be a little bit disconnected almost like they're not quite in a daze

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But just kind of checked out and that can be because they're having a lot of internal turmoil but again, as I say, it's you know, you might not because we've seen all these cases of you know, someone like Well to pick an example

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Robin Williams who has whatever you would see have interviewed or talking to anyone and they would always say

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Oh, he was so happy and upbeat and then they find out he actually was very depressed underneath a lot of that so I really do think relationships and building close friendships and creating a situation in which people feel like they can be open about what they're going through is

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Important to give another example a couple years ago. I had two good friends who both experienced miscarriages and This is the kind of event that often is a trigger for depression and to see the different ways that they reacted to that was

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Very it was very helpful for me to see that because one of them She wanted to go on to social media tell everybody what she was experiencing ask for their prayer

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B and then go back even months or a year after the fact to come back and note that it was the anniversary of this

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Terrible about that it happened. The other friend said absolutely nothing at all I only found out through the grapevine and I had to make a point a few months later of coming up to her and saying

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Are you doing? Okay. It's been a few months now how are you feeling because our tendency is if it's out of sight it's out of mind and People go through something difficult like a job loss or a death in the family or a chronic illness and at first We're very responsive and praying for them and helping them and keeping them in our minds but as time goes by we tend to forget about what they're suffering or to assume they must be over it and Oftentimes that could be the danger zone when we're no longer

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Being as proactive and praying for people or offering to help them or being intentional and speaking to them

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So I think we need to keep that in mind as well. Not just assume it's been some time

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So they must be better because oftentimes Depression can last for a very long time and you and this is one of the things whenever I'm having to help people through grief

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Especially as you mentioned some of the things loss of a family member. I usually will mention It's really the two to three month period

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Afterwards that is the most crucial time and and so it's helpful You've given some things to for us as church members if we have other church members going through a job loss

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Going through a loss of a loved one. That's that's a big one miscarriages loss of a child is huge regardless of the age

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I've seen many parents who go into depressions because they lose a child even if the child's an adult

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Because it's just like this mindset we have that we shouldn't outlive our you know, our children and so we end up seeing there's trigger things that we should look for You brought up the thing.

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I mean one of the things I know is that people have stopped coming to church we want to reach out to them not just Because hey, why are you not coming to church like it's about church

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But that's usually an indicator of something else or if they were always going to church functions and now they're not showing up to all of them

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That and it's really important When going through if you're struggling with depression to make sure you go to those functions.

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Make sure you go where people are because Really Amy you mentioned this earlier.

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It's it's that community that's needed to big part of it That helps us out of it if we're gonna talk about it and and most people don't want to because of either the stigmas

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Because they think no one can help them and one of things I find about depression not just what I've gone through But people

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I've counseled Depression is something that always seems to put you in a past event

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You're not living in the present You you really aren't living for the future It's one of the first things

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I was taught in counseling with depression is the very first thing That you have to do with someone is give them hope

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Hope that there's gonna be a future hope there's they're gonna make it through this Because so much of the of the depression is to want to be in the past to dwell on a past event

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I Notice that people who are struggling with it and if folks are listening and they start noticing these things about themselves not only dwelling on a past event, but The desire to be alone desire to be in darkness.

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I know people that'll close their shades and just want to be in a dark house And just really cut themselves off from from everybody and everything and That's that like you mentioned earlier.

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That is probably the worst thing to do Because it's cutting off the very thing the lifeline that we need

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Which is the church for those of us that are Christians we need to to be doing the one another's

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I'm doing a Just this past week. We did it our daily podcast, which is that two -minute podcast?

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We recently did one on I'm just being spiritually depressed But this week we're dealing with why show up to church and one of the things

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I'm dealing with this week We're dealt with this week. I should say is the fact that there's all these one another 60 one another's in the epistles

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These are what the church does. We love one another we bear one another's burdens

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We edify one another we exhort one another we lift one another up all of these things but we can't do that if a

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We're not seeking those people who may be struggling and if we're struggling we're not seeking the people who need it

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To help us I really think that if you look at James a Lot of people have differing views on this but in James where he talks about if you're sick

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I think the word actually should be weak if you're so weak Like there is a point where you could be so depressed.

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You can't even pray And he says call the elders to pray for you there is a time where you need somebody else to come alongside us and Lift us up in prayer

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But also in practical things like you're saying Amy just Being there would be one.

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I find often for Women who lose loved ones something like meals

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Not just immediately after but months after Because even something like cooking

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Can be a difficult thing for for someone who does the bulk of the cooking. I Have found like cases where people they don't even they don't eat right now because they don't feel like cooking

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They don't want to do anything they won't curl up in a ball on their bed and or than the couch and Do nothing or just sit and watch

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TV So, what are some what are some other things that that you see as And and I want to get into the issue of medical in a bit, but other than the medical

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What are some things you see that are helpful to help others to come through this you talked about having friends in your past That helped you through your your depression.

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What are some other things that you'd that could help and what how did your friends help you? Yeah, I think yeah, it's it's a good thing to consider because depression it's essentially as if someone was able to Take all the joy and the hope and the meaning out of your body somehow if that was possible

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That's what it feels like when you're depressed it It's sort of a condition not only being

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You know feeling despairing emotionally, but also just feeling that there isn't a point and you can feel overwhelmed by the smallest task and I know many times when

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I felt very depressed. I sort of wake up in the morning. It's like, okay Why am I gonna get out of bed today? What's the point?

36:00

You could start to feel That way and sometimes making decisions or doing small things like cleaning the house or cooking a meal can start to feel overwhelming so I remember

36:13

I'm reminded of Something Dietrich Bonhoeffer wrote in his book life together, which was about Christian community

36:20

And he talked about that. Sometimes the the Word of God is stronger

36:27

When it comes from your fellow Christian than it is from it's stronger in your fellow

36:32

Christian than it is in yourself And he wasn't meaning that it's different coming from them But there are times when we're very low in spirit where you know, it's hard for us to really

36:45

For those spiritual truths to sink into us as we read them in Scripture But sometimes if we have you know a brother or a sister in Christ who comes up and just reminds us of the simple truth

36:56

You know God loves you and you know, you're part of our congregation You're part of his body and we're praying for you and and reminds you of your hope that you have in Christ sometimes to have someone who comes into your life and speaks that truth into you can be very powerful and It does become difficult because of course you don't want to just smother a person

37:19

But sometimes you do have to be a little proactive in dealing with a person with depression

37:26

Because they're not necessarily going to take the initiative. I remember sometimes when

37:31

I felt depressed I felt almost as if I were toxic to other people like if I spent time you know trying to You know engage in friendship with other people that maybe

37:44

The depression I was struggling with would start to affect them and drag them down so there are all kinds of reasons that a person would be hesitant to reach out to others and That's when you need to you know demonstrate to the person that You're willing to for that point in the relationship to be more the giver than the receiver

38:08

Usually we want our friendships to be kind of an ideal mix where we're both giving and receiving

38:13

But sometimes when you have someone in a very dark time you have to be a giver to them and that giver to them for a while and That can be overwhelming.

38:23

Sometimes. I've had times in my life where someone is going through a struggle and I'm giving a lot to them emotionally and it becomes such a weight on me to be the person who's trying to you know kind of hold them up and That's when you say you need more than just one person and you need even if you're the one who's supporting someone else

38:42

Maybe you need someone to support you. So there are lots of things to Consider but I would say yes, definitely practical things.

38:51

Let them know if they haven't been come to church You know, it could be for a totally benign reason that they haven't been coming

38:56

But just you know Think of it as if you had a member of your family who all of a sudden started not coming to family events

39:04

You would probably call them and say hey, we noticed you weren't here. You know, what what's going on?

39:10

Is everything? Okay, and I think we should have that same Frame of mind about our church family that you know

39:18

And sometimes it can become more difficult the bigger the church is you don't always notice when people are gone

39:24

That's when you need to be intentional about developing community within the church having

39:30

You know built having smaller groups of people who can be looking out for one another Maybe you can have you know

39:37

Some of your deacons be assigned to a particular group of the congregation I've had that at some of the churches

39:43

I've been to where they really try to focus on that group and build relationships with those people

39:48

Because the church is sort of too big for them to be At a really close level with everyone so there are different Strategies you can consider

39:58

But I definitely think offering practical help with you know yard work and maybe if they're a parent, you know

40:05

Do you need me to help with bringing your kids to this or that activity so that you can have a chance to go?

40:11

You know speak with a pastor or a counselor or whatever the case may be And it will really depend on the person so You could you know

40:20

You can ask the person what they need help with but understand you might have to ask a couple times

40:27

Before they really feel comfortable Telling you because we all have you know This sense of pride that you know,

40:33

I don't want to ask someone to make a meal for me unless I think it's really you know a serious Situation because otherwise

40:40

I feel bad that they're you know going out of their way for me So that's when you need to just make it very clear to this person

40:46

I'm serious when I said I was willing to help you. I wasn't just saying that as a social nicety

40:51

I really did mean that I'm ready to sacrifice my time my energy my resources on your behalf and I think once people start to understand that then they might be more willing to actually tell you what would be

41:05

Helpful, but if they just get the feeling that You're being polite.

41:11

Yeah that you're just being polite They might think well I'm not gonna ask you to do something big because you know or and also sometimes people have this mentality where they really feel like They need to repay one for one everything that someone does for them

41:26

And oh if you're gonna come Work on my yard, and I'm not feeling physically fit to later work on your yard or do something else for you then

41:33

I better say no because I can't repay you and that's what we need to remind people that our

41:39

Service to one another is a gift and God has given us so many gifts that we can never repay and that should be the

41:45

Spirit that we have toward other Christians as well You know one of the groups that I have find in the church who struggle not always with depression

41:54

But they're like borderline a lot is single mothers and One of the things

42:00

I've done is I often will when I have single mothers. I'm usually trying to do things especially if they have boys

42:07

You know, I'm trying to be a male role model in in their boys life and so I'll take them to ballgames

42:14

I don't like ballgames, but I'm not a big baseball fan But I'll take their their sons there do something with them.

42:21

It gives them a break So many people don't understand what for especially for the single mothers who are working one two, maybe three jobs

42:30

Trying to raise the kids They want to be home with the kids the kids are and there's so much frustration they can sometimes get into a depression

42:39

Even though they seem functional They they're struggling and so that would be one group.

42:45

I often will will see so often So it's like, you know, just reaching out to them seeing how you could give them a break sometimes

42:54

The the thing that really helped me a lot was I think it was RC Sproul who wrote I'm tremor.

43:00

He had a book on suffering talked about the vocation of suffering the fact that God Actually brings suffering in some people's lives as as a vocation that they're they

43:11

In the way God has designed them Can bring God glory?

43:17

Through their suffering which sounds so bizarre to us because we think no We should never suffer like because we believe the prosperity gospel that we hear right?

43:26

I mean, that's you kind of alluded to that earlier But because if it's if we're suffering it must be our our lack of faith

43:32

The reality is is sometimes God brings that suffering for his own glory. Just read through Job No one ever wants to really read it that but you think about Job Suffered for God's glory for so God would receive the glory and there are times

43:48

When we're gonna have that but there's also times in and you mentioned the physical We want to come back in a second

43:54

I want to talk about the physical aspects of depression and some things that can sometimes help that sometimes we're not so willing to to talk about in the church

44:04

The good news is striving for eternity would love to come to your church to spend two days with your folks

44:12

Teaching them biblical hermeneutics. That's right the art and science of interpreting

44:17

Scripture The bad news is somebody attending might be really upset to discover Jeremiah 29 11 should not be their life first to learn more go to striving for eternity org to host a

44:29

Bible interpretation made easy seminar in your area All right.

44:34

So Amy is a Jeremiah 29 11. Is that your life first? Just checking It's a very good first and Very useful for us to study but it probably should be right in the context of the whole letter that was sent to Jews in Exile, but yeah

44:56

Yeah I find it amazing that people struggle over trying to figure out who that verse is for if they just read one verse before it when it says those that were captive in in Babylon, hmm

45:08

Make a point though about that verse and it sort of connects with what you were saying just before the break

45:15

So that verse is saying, you know I know the plans I have for you to give you a hope in the future and the idea people get from this is

45:23

God has a wonderful plan for your life and he's going to use you for great things. I Think that's actually true, but people don't understand that that might include suffering

45:34

You know that wonderful plan God has for your life Might be for you to go, you know

45:40

Missionary in some backwater place where you'll be subject to diseases and all kinds of things that people are like Well, I'd much rather serve

45:49

God in my megachurch here in suburban America You know, so I do believe that God has great plans for people in his body but do for instance do

45:59

I think that The struggles have had with depression anxiety are part of his plan

46:05

I have to conclude that they are because you know, they've come into my life and they've Although I've often felt rather faithless going through them

46:14

I think they've had the result of strengthening my faith and I can't imagine That I would have done some of the things

46:21

I've ended up doing if I hadn't had those things in my life so it's been woven into the

46:27

Tapestry if you will of my life and I think the end picture is going to be a really beautiful thing but not

46:34

Sometimes certain moments when you're getting poked with the needle kind of hurt a little bit and we have to understand that You know when

46:42

God said to Israel in that chapter that he had plans for them His plan was for them not to immediately be relieved from their exile, but to stay there for many years, you know, he said

46:54

You know seek the good of the place you're living because you're gonna be there a long time He did say eventually

47:01

I'm going to bring you back But basically that letter was to let them know that partly they were gonna be there for a long time

47:09

Well, he said they're gonna be there for 70 years and and actually it's very interesting because just a few verses after that verses 16 17

47:16

Jeremiah 29 16 17 18 you see he says I know have plans for your plans of famine and sword and Pestilence the you're with the point you're making is valid.

47:27

I mean those are also his plan Well, we just want the ones that I just want the good plans so so let's talk about this the physical aspects of Depression because you had alluded to this earlier, but there is a there's a

47:43

I think a spiritual side to depression There's an emotional side to depression There's also a physical side to it and I want to talk briefly about the issue

47:51

Because a lot of people this becomes a controversial issue, right? Should we medicate should we use things use the technology that's now available for these mood -altering drugs?

48:05

Are they you know, so here's the gamut, right? You have some people that say hey Use it whenever whatever helps, you know

48:12

Use everything you can to the other gamut where it's it's a sin to take any kind of drug

48:18

Or even even herbal stuff like anything's a sin so there's a huge gamut and I always find that the truth is usually in the middle where we actually have to apply our thinking and our minds and reason together, so Let's talk about the physical aspects of depression talk about The the medicines that are now available.

48:42

How could they help? How could they also be a hurt or deterrent? Yes part of the problem we have with the discussion surrounding depression is that it is a more difficult condition to Understand than some other conditions and it's not even the best scientists of the day don't completely understand it

49:04

I've said before the brain is the least understood organ in the body because it's by far the most complex and we still don't understand exactly how some of the things in the brain work and You know despite what

49:18

I've heard at different points where people say this is the one thing causing depression I the best research

49:24

I can see nowadays is saying that it actually comes from a number of factors and Usually it's it can be some things are physical.

49:35

There are Environmental issues such as you know, maybe like I said job loss

49:41

Grief over the death of a loved one things like that can create a situation where you're particularly vulnerable to depression

49:48

I think what you've mentioned about the difficulties you've had in pastoral ministry really points to the fact that there may be spiritual causes of depression

49:57

Now sometimes people bring that up simply to say that your depression is a result of your sin

50:03

I think certain sins could lead you into depression for sure But I also think

50:09

I'm really convinced that people who are in Christian ministry or prominent positions of leadership within the church are uniquely vulnerable to certain

50:20

Difficulties with depression because of the nature of what they're doing and we can see that even me.

50:27

It's not just the nature what they're doing I think it's also the nature that there there's this expectation.

50:32

They're supposed to speak Seeming like they don't struggle and so they don't share their struggles.

50:38

That's one of the things that I ended up learning in ministry now I surround myself with people that I can share my struggles with so that I Haven't been as susceptible to it because there's people

50:50

I can I know I can call and say here's this I'm struggling right now Because it's it's we need people in our lives that we can bear one another's burdens with I Think that's absolutely correct when you're

51:04

The pastor or you know, particularly if you're the senior pastor or the head of a church, you know you kind of usually you seek the counsel of people who are higher up on the ladder or at the same level if You are the top person on the ladder.

51:18

You don't really have either of those presumably now depending on your denomination. You may have someone who's above you that's not part of your congregation, but oftentimes in a

51:29

Situation of you know a more congregational form of church polity

51:35

Now only yeah, you are basically very isolated by the nature of your position and in addition to that the

51:44

Expectations that people have that you will be setting a more perfect and holy Example and that you won't be having, you know normal human problems

51:53

We need to remember that pastors are people and I think that if you look at some of the letters of Paul you see that what he dealt with as far as He was so invested in the churches that he was involved with and he he felt their pain

52:11

So deeply he rejoiced so greatly When they were bearing spiritual fruit, but then if anything was going wrong with the churches, you know he talks about the daily stress he was under as a result of Everything that he was trying to do for the

52:27

Lord in the nature of his ministry. I also think that you know, sometimes you know if we believe that we're struggling not just against flesh and blood but against you know his sort of Demonic activity at times.

52:41

I always want to be careful because when you start talking about that it makes crazy, but the thing

52:47

I think I can say with some confidence is to the extent that we have real evil in this world,

52:53

I think that The more good you're doing and the more visible you are will probably make you only more likely to suffer some kind of Difficulty attack of that nature if you think of the book of Job Why did

53:10

Satan go after Job specifically because he was righteous and he was you know God was being glorified in his life and He wanted to get

53:20

Job to a point where he would curse God and you know where his testimony would fall apart and You know,

53:26

I think Sometimes you can get people that go the other way that say if anyone's ever criticizing them then you know

53:32

Obviously that's a Satan and I'm just completely righteous, but I do think I've seen many good people

53:40

Really their heart in the right place not perfect people but striving to do the right thing for the Lord who come up against all sorts of opposition and Difficult situations in churches where they just get absolutely burned out.

53:53

Yeah, and it's such an unfortunate thing But I think that I love it when

53:59

I see churches that you know They'll give their pastors sabbaticals or they'll bring other people on staff to help with part of their duties

54:08

They will do different things to allow them to spend more time with their family That's so critical because a lot of pastors end up giving everything in themselves to their church family and their own family suffers and their own family is going to be a balm for their soul, but In times where they're struggling with things they probably feel much more open sharing that with their family then, you know

54:32

Hey, if I was a pastor, I wouldn't go up to just any congregant and start telling them all the problems in my life

54:38

No, you can't do that There are lots of reasons why you wouldn't necessarily do that So I would say if you are a pastor make sure that you're seeking out some good accountability

54:49

Relationships and maybe other pastors or someone who was a mentor to you as you were coming up in the ministry

54:55

Have or even some a lot of a lot of areas. There's pastors who have pastors fellowships things like that So so let's do you do you think there is a

55:08

In your experience. Do you think there's a benefits that could come from? medicine

55:14

Yes, I'm just realizing I never answered that part of your question. I Got so passionate about what

55:21

I was talking about So I mentioned that there are different kinds of factors that can lead to depression.

55:27

There is research that suggests that The neurotransmitters which are used by our brain to For various reasons that have a big impact on our mood and emotions that those could be some of the culprit behind people who are having serious depression and here

55:48

I want to differentiate between People who go through a more of a temporary period of depression and people who are in a long -term

55:58

Severe depression that is really Making it difficult for them to do normal life activities.

56:04

That's usually how we define clinical depression It has to be Severe it has to be long lasting and it has to be interfering with normal life activities

56:15

So when you're talking about that kind of clinical depression I there is research that suggests that there is a you know

56:24

Neurological component where if you think of things like serotonin or dopamine that either the levels might be lower than they should be or somehow not functioning the way they should be but this is where the research fails us a little bit because we haven't

56:41

It's not perfectly understood how this works at this point. So there are a number of medicines that have

56:47

Come out over the past, you know Maybe 2025 years that have aimed to promote a better balance of these neurotransmitters in people's brains and there obviously are a host of opinions about these medications and You know,

57:05

I always take a bit of a cautious approach with them. I don't think we should absolutely

57:12

Demonize them and they say it's a sin to take them I also don't think we should ever give people the impression that if they just take a pill they're going to feel better because That's in all the research.

57:24

I've seen also suggests that Medication is only one part of a treatment plan and that Good solid

57:32

Counseling and having a good support system around you can be just as effective in combating depression

57:39

As medicine is but the one thing I would say is this there I mean and you mentioned the people who demonize it the one thing

57:46

I would say and I've seen this is Pastors as well -meaning as they may be who believe that using any kind of medicine is wrong

57:54

And I shared with you before we went live about this as I knew a pastor who? counseled someone that had been taking mood -altering drugs for over 30 years and just told him that's a sin and he had to stop it immediately or they were going to practice church discipline on and So here you had a guy who is suddenly being told like this is a this is a sin and It was something where I had to intervene because this

58:21

I've seen this way too many times with people who as well -meaning as they might Want to be take people 20 30 40 years of taking these medicines

58:30

The body is is reacting to that adjusting to that You cannot just stop that even if you want if you're on those type of medications

58:40

Maybe you are on those medications for many years now You have the support structure you have the church you want to get off those you do that with your medical doctor and you you?

58:50

Have to get off those in a you know a scheduled way These these are not the sort of drugs.

58:57

You can just stop taking it's not like an aspirin or something like that This does affect

59:03

Much of the body in a way that's different than than some other medicines

59:09

You can't just stop it and and the one danger I see is when people just say you got to just stop immediately that could be very dangerous even if Someone feels they want to stop it they want to get off the medicine and if the pastors are saying they should it has to be gradual there there has to be a plan because When the body gets used to these medicines and suddenly it's removed immediately

59:34

The there's a reaction that many pastors are not ready to handle with folks and I've had to do a lot of counseling visitations in in you know

59:47

Mental institutions and mental wards in the hospitals dealing with ramifications of people who tried stopping these medications cold turkey and I I definitely would strongly even if someone is against them.

01:00:01

I think they Could have their place as long as they're not overused but you these are something that the medicines are something that have to be dealt with with medical

01:00:15

Physicians medical doctors not just a pastor who doesn't have the medical background

01:00:21

That that's one thing I as a caution Yes, I definitely agree with you on that.

01:00:28

I think that We need to be very careful before We start giving people medical opinions when we have a hand medical training.

01:00:39

Yes. I I do understand why some people feel a bit skeptical over The the medical community or the you know, the community of psychologists or Pharmaceutical I mean there people are

01:00:57

Nervous about that kind of stuff for a lot of reasons and some of them having nothing to do with religion

01:01:02

So and I am not necessarily prepared to address all of those reasons because sometimes people just don't trust big pharmaceuticals different things like that as far as The the religious situation in the church,

01:01:19

I think we need to be careful before we tell people that Something is a sin unless we have a clear biblical warrant for that because if someone is already struggling with depression and then you come up and they're already feeling very guilty and Struggling with shame because the condition they're going through and you come up and approach them as you would someone who was

01:01:42

Abusing some kind of a legal drug as opposed to someone who's trying to take something under the you know consultation of the the oversight of medical community

01:01:54

You just can't treat those two people the same way because it's two different heart situations that are going on and I I think you're absolutely right that many psychiatric type medications are meant to build up slowly in your body and Then when you come off so you need to start them slowly and come off them slowly if you try to come off them immediately your your

01:02:22

Brain has become accustomed to having that chemical affecting it so For instance, you know, it has become accustomed to taking a drug that maybe will reduce or encourage better functioning serotonin if you then immediately stop taking the drug you're gonna have you know

01:02:42

Not enough serotonin and it's going to have a big problem And I do think that's also something to consider before you start taking a drug that They can have some side effects and some of them definitely have withdrawal effects

01:02:56

So I always encourage people do your research ask your doctor What potential side effects are there if I were to stop taking this drug would

01:03:06

I potentially have withdrawal effects? You know, what are the pros and cons of this medicine? How what has been the experience of other people who take this medicine, you know

01:03:14

Go if you feel like your doctor, you know Sometimes people are feeling like there are certain doctors that will just give out pills for anything

01:03:22

I can tell you my father is a physician and he definitely is not like that at all But you know, it's a community like any other you have some people who are better and some who are worse

01:03:33

And there are some doctors who we've certainly seen over prescription of antibiotics over the years for example

01:03:39

So I think particularly when some of these drugs like maybe Prozac first came out

01:03:45

It was considered to be a kind of miracle drug and so they would prescribe it to people for all kinds of you know all the time and I think the long -term research it we have right now is helping doctors to be

01:03:59

More mindful and how they prescribe things correctly But I do understand the hesitancy people have towards drugs and I usually recommend to people that they don't immediately go to Taking a prescription medication because there are some other things that can be helpful for a person to try first for instance if you're depressed there's

01:04:22

Research that suggests that taking up Not necessarily a strenuous exercise regimen, but some kind of exercise regimen

01:04:30

Even if it's just you know going for a walk can be very helpful sometimes where I grew up we would have

01:04:38

Very long and dark winters and people tend to get with seasonal affective disorder there, which makes them depressed so there are

01:04:47

Special lights you can buy that you use and it helps to replicate, you know Duplicate the effect of the

01:04:53

Sun and where did you did you grow up in Alaska? Michigan Yeah We would have in January you pretty much would hardly see the

01:05:02

Sun all January which is clouds but um, so there are You know and you can go to all kinds of websites online that will you know, sometimes people try

01:05:13

Reducing the amount of caffeine or alcohol they're intaking eating less sugar and salt and processed foods

01:05:20

Sometimes people find that that helps their mood So there are all kinds of things you can try before going the route of medicine

01:05:27

But when you know, I have had you know maybe a friend who has suffered for a long time and they tried many of these other things and they've gone to Christian counseling and they've you know done the whole gamut of different things that could help with depression at that point

01:05:42

I say maybe you should talk to your doctor about the possibility of trying a medication and you always want to be very wise about it and do it under the supervision of a doctor and Never just change your dosage or stop taking it without asking your doctor but because also some of these medications can have interactions with other medications that You might not be aware of but your doctor might be

01:06:06

So you always need to be do your research and be very careful because you're right It's not just like taking aspirin aspirin spent to work very fast and it goes in and out of your system very quickly

01:06:17

These medications usually stick around in your system for a long time So because of that you need to be aware that it's a little different than other medications

01:06:28

All right. So I think you and I should play a game and I didn't warn you about this

01:06:37

It's time now to start the Spiritual transition game

01:06:44

And that too is John's voice And so now we get to see how much you've been listening to the rap report whether you know, what's coming or not

01:06:53

So this is a game that we're gonna play where you're gonna give me something where I have to transition to the gospel

01:07:00

So it could be anything you want And the reason we play this game is most people find it easier to share the gospel once the conversation is spiritual

01:07:07

How do they get there? and they always think or figure they got to wait for God to do some miraculous thing in a conversation to make it an

01:07:14

Easy conversation to get to the gospel and I take the position No, you could take every conversation if you so want to by practicing you can transition any conversation to the gospel and so we put that on display and I'm gonna take whatever we have not

01:07:29

Practiced or prepared for this and I see you looking around like what am I going to give him? But you give me an object or a thought or you know anything you want and I have to transition live to the gospel

01:07:42

So I can throw any kind of thought at you, okay, well, I'll just go with some things that I've Become aware of recently.

01:07:51

I think okay, and I'm starting now So I think the sex scandal in the

01:07:57

Catholic Church is horrible and the Pope should resign Well, I'm probably gonna agree which is kind of an interesting because if a

01:08:04

Pope can't resign but one just did right I mean there's a post to be for life, which is kind of interesting because one resigned and Possibly even resigned over this issue that he realized he couldn't expose it

01:08:20

There have been enough hopes at this point that Reality has presented itself.

01:08:25

So there's always a precedent. There's even been times where there's been three popes at once all excommunicating each other and but you know, isn't that so interesting that we look at a man and we we expect that they've

01:08:39

Spent years in a religious system so much that we expect them to almost be as if they're now perfect as if they could somehow leave being a human being and become something other than a human and As much as they try and I think the more that they attempt to put on the facade

01:08:55

It's kind of like we're talking with depression more a pastor puts on a facade that everything's happy The the more they end up struggling the more that you put on a facade that you're this perfect Pope and you do nothing wrong

01:09:06

The more you end up seeing a struggle if you look at the previous two popes ago

01:09:11

I guess for John Paul the second you see that he actually most a lot bill don't know this about him He would actually sleep on the floor because he was trying to earn

01:09:21

Merits to gain his salvation. He would do things to punish himself He'd whip himself

01:09:29

To try to earn his salvation to make up because he knew that even if he couldn't show it to the world

01:09:35

He knew he was not living a righteous life. And if we're gonna be honest with ourselves, we're all that way

01:09:41

We're all gonna have to admit that we really don't live in our own minds Perfect and righteous as we've tried to put on for others

01:09:48

But you know There was someone who who actually did live a perfectly righteous life and I'm gonna tell you something about this guy

01:09:54

Not only did he live a perfectly righteous life as a human being but he suffered a death

01:10:02

That was he was not guilty of he was innocent, but he suffered it for someone else

01:10:08

In fact, he suffered it for more than one person and he suffered that death and took the full consequence of that He actually did that for me

01:10:14

He suffered the death that I should have suffered because of the things I've done wrong

01:10:19

He suffered it that I could be set free. You probably know of this individual

01:10:25

He's one of the names that's used as more foul language than any other His name is Jesus Christ and he came to earth.

01:10:32

God Almighty died on a cross that we could be forgiven of sin Because you and I just like the

01:10:38

Pope are not innocent and we're not guilt -free But we struggle with the guilt.

01:10:44

He came to release us from that guilt But what we have to do is stop trusting ourself as a good person or trust our good works and trust what

01:10:50

Jesus Christ did On that cross 2 ,000 years ago as our only payment of sin So that's how

01:10:56

I would do that on short notice Oh What two for okay now she's like, okay now

01:11:05

I thought of something harder well, no, I I didn't know if I was supposed to be coming up with multiple examples, so my next example be

01:11:16

I just think that it is silly that Nike is putting

01:11:22

Colin Kaepernick and it's ads because you know, he Wasn't even that great of a quarterback and he's just famous for doing something disrespectful

01:11:33

And here I was about to say and we finally have someone that won't give me a sports Transition and there you go

01:11:43

Yeah, and I actually only know about this I saw it recently that there was this big big thing because they were paying him

01:11:48

I Guess all along and stuff and and building up the this whole thing I I haven't followed this at all folks who are regulars to know that I am for the most part sports illiterate at least on team sports but but I guess where people are calling him out is

01:12:04

I'm being a hypocrite because he's saying he's standing for something, but he's actually been getting paid for it and Now he's he's benefiting from that and we look at that and we say that that's wrong

01:12:17

We it's amazing how we always notice hypocrisy and other people what others do wrong And yet we don't notice it when we do wrong.

01:12:23

It's a thing we find with human beings We can judge others much easier than we could judge ourselves I mean, I find it interesting that if I was to ask you if you ever told a lie

01:12:32

You you might admit to telling a lie, but most people if I asked what would that make you they don't want to say a liar

01:12:38

They want to say human or a sinner or like everybody else and then when I say if I lied What would you call me and they're very quick to say a liar

01:12:46

Because we're really good at identifying things people do wrong when it's others and we don't want to admit it to ourselves and that's part of the problem that actually keeps us in a state where we think we're a good person when we're not and Because of that pride it actually is something that we get judged by We're gonna be judged on a day of judgment when all of us are gonna face

01:13:08

God and he is gonna judge us not Based on how good we are. He's gonna judge us based on the works we do

01:13:15

He's actually gonna condemn us because those works don't compare to the work He did when he came to earth and died on a cross and he paid the fine that you and I owe we have to Stop trusting ourselves

01:13:27

Stop trust our good works our genealogy that were raised a certain religion that we have to stop trusting ourselves as a as a good

01:13:35

Person turn and trust what Jesus did on the cross So that's how I do it and notice

01:13:41

I didn't even mention anything of Him who I don't know much about Yeah, and see you could avoid all that and that's thing, you know,

01:13:54

I think you can you Anybody with practice can get into sharing the gospel

01:13:59

So so with that Amy before we wrap up anything you want to share with folks anything you're working on I know you're working on your new book, but any other things you're working on or any things you want to share with folks?

01:14:09

Um, I don't know that there's Anything I need to mention as far as I'm working on I'm really excited because I'm about to go to California to go to particular con which is a

01:14:23

Small conference for a particular Baptist at Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in La Mirada, California So I'm very excited to go out there and fellowship with some

01:14:33

Reformed Baptist friends and also I'm gonna see hopefully a few Presbyterian friends while I'm out there so I just love the unity we can have in Christ even despite our denominational differences and One thing

01:14:46

I do like to mention For those who are looking for good resources regarding depression

01:14:53

There are a lot out there but the one I've taken to mentioning is one that's been helpful to me this past year which are some of the literature put out by the

01:15:05

Christian Counseling and Educational Foundation That's a CCEF and they have a number of people who work for them

01:15:13

They actually train people in biblical counseling They add Welch is one person who's written a few several books for them and also

01:15:22

I think David Powlison and they have various people there, but so far I have The resources

01:15:28

I'm familiar with I found to be very helpful They strike a good balance between the physical the spiritual emotional

01:15:37

And I think they bring a lot of hope to people without demonizing them or their conditions so that's something

01:15:43

I'd recommend for anyone who's Looking for some good resources. Okay. Well if you have some specific ones

01:15:49

I'll get those from you and put those in the show notes. If not, we'll put the the link to CC CC F E CC So, uh, but as I appreciate you having you on and maybe maybe one day you and I'll get back into a council meeting

01:16:09

Maybe they'll invite us and let us back in so we can, you know disrupt their meetings and have fun

01:16:20

So folks, um You're going to California Amy this week.

01:16:26

Well, I go the following week, but we go to different parts of California Yes I'll be in San Francisco at Redwood City specifically

01:16:35

And if you get our newsletters, we've we put those dates out, but I'll be up in Redwood City Grace Baptist.

01:16:41

Thanks Grace Baptist With pastor Steve converse will be speaking out there

01:16:49

Then we'll be in Coronation, Washington Have a trip planned to Idaho and and I there is a plan

01:16:56

Justin Peters and I have confirmed that Next year we are going to the

01:17:04

Philippines to be doing some discernment conferences at a couple of different of the islands out there

01:17:09

So we'll probably be out there about a week and a half. It's looking like so be praying for us And I will say that this is something that we do we rely on our donors to help for that So if you care to help

01:17:23

If folks are not familiar in the Philippines, unfortunately You know bad theology is raining

01:17:31

They're they're having a big problem with the Catholic Church Making inroads into the

01:17:38

Evangelical Church. There's a lot of problems with the prosperity gospel out there new after new

01:17:44

Apostolic Reformation is big out there We're going out there to try to help folks this to teach them how to identify some of these false doctrines

01:17:52

What to do about it give them good solid teaching So if you want to help support Justin and I to get out to the

01:17:58

Philippines to be able to to help these churches You can support us at the website striving for training org.

01:18:05

Just go to the donate tab and Donate there you can put in the comments. It's for the Philippines. That'll get directed toward that trip

01:18:13

Because we're gonna need your help to be able to get out there where there's actually a couple different islands we're looking to go to so if you could help us that would be a big help and if you choose to donate at Justin Peters dot org you could do that.

01:18:28

Just make sure he'll understand this in the comment section put Hashtag Justin I win

01:18:34

He'll know that that means he lost to me again that we've been having this ongoing battle who can out give each other

01:18:42

I need your help in out giving so everyone go there donate to Justin but hashtag

01:18:47

Justin I win and he'll know he even though he won he lost so do that.

01:18:53

I Get myself in such trouble. So So folks if there's anything else we got a bunch of new things going on.

01:19:00

I should mention I should have mentioned this much earlier September 27th We will finally be announcing this for folks who used to like Matt slick and I getting together doing our apologetics

01:19:12

Live. Well, that's actually what it's now called Apologetics live with Matt slick and Andrew rapid port.

01:19:18

It will start on Thursday nights It'll be on Thursday nights from now on Thursdays at 8 o 'clock

01:19:24

Eastern Time. It'll be two hours long You could come up and you could challenge Well challenge

01:19:29

Matt ask me the softball questions, but you can we're gonna do the same format We used to do where Matt's gonna do debates

01:19:35

Or I'll do some debates, but it's mostly gonna be Matt doing a lot of debates a lot of being challenged

01:19:40

Then we're gonna talk about apologetic issues Maybe we'll have Matt debating someone for a while and then explain why he asks the questions.

01:19:48

He asked to help train new apologists. So We will have a website for this Apologetics live .com

01:19:55

there's where we're gonna put the links on how to join the links on how to watch and also that we're gonna have

01:20:03

Hopefully a chat in there, but we'll see so we're still working some of those things out Look for that September 27th, that'll start so until then remember to strive to make today an eternal day for the glory of God This podcast is part of the striving for eternity ministry for more content or to request a speaker or seminar to your church