March 20, 2019 Show with Thomas Evans & Joe Jacowitz on “What’s Happening at Family Radio?” AND “Who Ministers to the Ministers?”

Family Radio’s Transformation and Repentance from Harold Camping’s Heresies

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania. It's iron sharpens iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Lake City, Florida. And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live-streaming. And iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 20th day of March 2019.

And I'm delighted to have two returning guests today. Two very important guests who are going to be discussing new developments with family radio and family stations, Incorporated. I'm speaking of Tom Evans the president and general manager of family radio and Joe Jackowitz the pastor-at-large for family radio and we are going to be discussing what's happening at family radio and who.

Ministers to the ministers and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you both back to iron sharpens iron radio Tom Evans and Joe Jackowitz.

Thank you very much Chris. Good to be here with you. Good to be with you my friend.

It's great to have you both back and I'm going to give out our email address Immediately. For anyone who cares to join us with a question of their own our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris a RN z en a gmail .com.

Please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence. If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. And by the way, I want to read with permission of Harold Camping's granddaughter Sarah Nunez a beautiful letter that she wrote to me the day after Tom Evans made his debut interview on iron sharpens iron radio where he Publicly confessed Repentance over the heresies of Harold Camping.

Heresies that family radio and family stations incorporated had unfortunately perpetuated even after Harold Camping's death but they have now come to repentance and they are now transformed as a radio station and now a Friend and platform for the body of Christ for the Church of Jesus Christ Rather than an enemy of the church and it is such a thrill to know this but But Harold Camping's granddaughter with permission.

I am reading this permission from her. She said dear Chris. I just wanted to say that I heard the interview Yesterday and Tom did a great job. I think it's great for people to hear what family radio is doing after the end of the world garbage That was preached for so long.

I'm Harold Camping's granddaughter and I was born into it we were right in the thick of it and Went to my grandpa's church and were followers of everything. He taught I Never even questioned it because after all I was just a child at the time and I looked up to my grandpa.

More than anyone in the world. Tom Evans was actually my Sunday school teacher back in the day and was practically part of the family. I would say that he needs a lot of prayer being in the position that he is at family radio.

There is some opposition to what he's trying to do. Removing my grandpa off the air completely after 2011 I was extremely confused and started questioning everything I had ever been taught. The only thing that I could come up with is that I still believe there was a God many kids I grew up with in our church became atheists and I knew that I still wanted to follow him by God's grace.

We my husband and our kids were able to move out of Alameda California away from my family and all the drama an hour away to the Central Valley. We bought a little ranchette and our loving life in the country for the first time since the end of the church age.

We started looking for a church. Also for the first time I felt God truly pulling me in his direction and we found an awesome church. This church was handpicked just for us. The pastor does discipleship with all the new families who come to the church.

When I was so confused about everything that it was just what I needed. We started from scratch and we went over everything from the doctrines of grace to God's attributes and so forth. Our family has come such a long way.

It's amazing what God will do With you when you surrender everything to him. Tom kept on saying how sorry he was for everything. Well being in the camping family, even though I wasn't actively promoting anything.

You feel a guilt that your family was responsible for so much heartache and sorrow. I grieved and I prayed for the families that were deeply affected for a long time for a very long time. And praying that they didn't abandon the faith like so many did from our circle.

One thing I will say about my grandpa is that shockingly he did repent. I was at their house all the time and in the hospital after his stroke. He was deeply deeply sorrowful for what he did. My husband and I would go over there and he would have his head buried in his hands and Just be saying how wrong he was about the whole thing and how sad he was.

His time on the radio was pretty much done though. They didn't let him on much after his stroke. Yes, his memory was impaired. But he didn't forget about everything he had done. His memory really got better for a while before he died.

It was amazing to see the difference in the man that was running an empire and so powerful to a humbled man. That was like a different person who is admitting that he was wrong about everything. I just wanted to say that I appreciated the interview and he's speaking.

She is speaking about the interview I did with you Tom and the Lord is gracious and plenteous in mercy. I thank him all the time for bringing us out of false teaching and hope to be a witness to those That are stuck somewhere in a cult-like setting thinking they have all the answers.

Have a great week and thank you for your ministry. Regards Sarah Nunez. Well, I just thought that that was a very moving letter and I thank God that she listened to that previous interview. We did and that she took the time to write such a precious letter.

Family Radio’s New Direction Toward Gospel Ministry and Support for Pastors

So let me begin with you Tom. For For those of our listeners who aren't aware and of course, I already indicated that family radio has gone through a huge transformation and I understand that. Even the day after we had done our initial interview.

Where you were for the first time publicly in the media? Professing repentance. Over the heresies of Harold camping. I understand that the very next day anyone connected to the station or the network.

That was loyal to mr. Camping and his teachings. Quit, so you are really have become fully Untethered by anything connected to mr. Camping and have purged your airwaves from his presence and his teaching.

So I'll let you pick up where I just left off Tom. Wow. Yeah.

There have been tremendous change tremendous learning. I appreciated that letter Sarah. Yeah, of course. I knew Sarah when she was a very from a very young age and Even after she became married to Jitin or husband God.

And kept tabs. But yeah, I would agree that Although I wouldn't say that everyone up and quit the next day I would say this that God has removed as you mentioned the tethers. Holding family radio in in that church age in in the end of the world prediction a radio Minister to their aim right now in the ministry, you know, they're the gospel and to encourage the Saints.

I'll praise God and.

So what new can you tell us about specific things whether they be? Programs whether they be about the music or whatever you have to say in regards to the developments That are occurring even as we speak in the transfer in the continued transformation of family radio.

There indeed. I'm here with Joe Pastor Joe and in fact Joe, you know I have spoken much about one of the new arms of family dimension stand looking at ourselves. Well, I really want to agree that yeah, there are many things on the horizon.

What's going to come down the road the Lord blessing form of encourage on our radio station? But one of the most Element and a couple of minutes to kind of calm and myself give you an over here in the next like anybody else.

People outside their church to the minister churches are under a hundred people and the average size is 89. Regardless of the spend when they first 90 Evangelical pastors. I've been a pastor and push fasting in the Lord.

There's all pastor make fight in them sleep. They leave the church and that person they use their influence. Talking about at one time or another another thing is the loneliness of someone they can read if I tell another pastor Mike Jenny day now.

So there's this idea of loneliness off to anybody because he's been burned by people a long police. Anytime then, of course, here's the weariness back. It will not last five years. 50 that's a huge statistic five years.

There's that's a that's a huge statement about something. That's wrong. Something that pests are missing something that they need desperately to equalize all these negative pressures and things 70 or their mission and but it's salary range of like 30 to $40 ,000 here are not able to do for their family that other people so there's also the added pressure of having to get Second job provide for his family outside his work as a bivocational team of those years to be able to provide for my family.

But that causes another problem through Friday for 40 or 50 hours a week as a bivocational Past and week as weekends allow for so there's this frustration of not being able to Minister to the chief on a level that you really want to I remember in my own bed.

It's and weekends of the morning at the couldn't get out of bed physically and spiritually and emotionally. I was exhausted so I just buried my face in my pillow. And I cried like a baby for deliverance and within a week God delivered me and it called me full-time into the ministry worldly definition of testers need to learn not to find their so-called Effectiveness by by looking around at them not guaranteed if Tom wants to come on for about three Yeah for me in my perspective just looking just comparing my own experience indeed.

Someone in the car again, and they sure they're hearing you and I immediately thought I just wanted to say one thing Joe. I immediately thought when.

We.

Had agreed to discuss who ministers to the ministers. I don't know if my my dear late wife used that exact phrase. But that was actually her question to me in the early 1990s. If not exactly in those words pretty close to it when she came up with the idea for our annual pastors luncheons that I began in the 1990s even before I had iron Sherpins iron radio and Initially we had to pay for everything out of her own pocket.

She told me that she wanted to have She and I forgo The exchanging of Christmas gifts so we could afford to treat pastors to a Christmas luncheon every year and that's what we did for years and years and the and the number of pastors that attended grew to such a Large number that we had to eventually get corporate sponsorship to help us.

And then I have continued the pastors luncheon now doing them twice a year.

Usually.

In the spring and usually in the winter time somewhere between Christmas and January and I have taken up the The baton as it were after my wife entered into eternity with Christ and have continued to do this in her memory Also to be a blessing to the pastors and and it was her Vision to make this a complete time of rest relaxation and enjoyment.

For pastors, there's no selling of anything. In fact major publishers as you know all over the world I should say it all over the United Kingdom in the United States donate free books to the pastors. You have shown up to Two of the luncheon so far with first love publishing and have given away books.

So I'm looking forward to seeing you again Hopefully in May on May 23rd when I'm having my next luncheon, which I'll be announcing in more detail later. But I just wanted to say that in tribute to my wife because it was a burden to her who ministers to the ministers and She knew that I working in Christian radio Had a very high percentage of friends who were pastors and I still do most of my friends are pastors so Being in that unusual position she wanted to launch those luncheons and Thanks be to God.

They have continued ever since. But I but I interrupted you.

The Burdens and Unique Challenges of Pastoral Ministry

Radio once they have behind the scenes and how it is to the best alleviate. Their spirit talking about the frustrations and disappointments, but they find they're missing something. They love God they know the word a great content in their sermons, but somehow something's not working and they get frustrated and some days Leaders church they they can't seem to do anything, right?

And so they in their ministry they get momentum. They negative impact on on the church a couple of your biggest givers leave the church money. But you're focused on money not about the money. But it becomes about money with many churches and they get tempted to shift their focus.

From the spiritual things to the things financial or material. Let me just throw out a couple of.

In fact Joe, could you hold off. I was gonna say hold off on the statistics until we return from our first break. So we're going to our first station break right now. If you care to join us on the air with a question of your own for Tom Evans president and general manager of Family Radio and Family Stations, Incorporated or Joe Jackowitz pastor at large for Family Radio and Family Stations, Incorporated.

Send us an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And as always, please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the USA.

Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We'll be right back with Tom Evans and Joe Jackowitz on what's happening at Family Radio and who ministers to the ministers.

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Have a great day. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in. Today we have as our guests returning to Iron Sherpins Iron Radio Thomas Evans president and general manager of Family Radio and Family Stations Incorporated and Joe Jackowitz the Pastor at large at Family Radio and Family Stations Incorporated.

If you have questions for them about what's happening at Family Radio and also who ministers to the ministers. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And Joe you were going to give us some statistics Before we went to the break.

And if you could also Right before that give our listeners sort of an overview of what you do as pastor at large for Family Radio.

And what I do is I have to counseling. I'll go ahead and take care of those calls and counsel people. But I also am involved in helping with these ministries like the pastor ministry Relations heavily involved in the outreach part of Family Radio Really Very quickly or to the local church.

We want to reach out in various ways to be there much involved in that.

Aspect of the ministry of Family Radio. And you are also pastor at Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California. Why don't you share our listeners a little bit something about that?

You know Christ Bible Church. We're Calvinistic and Tri-valley area next to the East Bay in Northern California about 30 miles east of San Francisco. 30 years think of a good mix. In our congregation we focus on that expository preaching and Fellowship the love of the brethren body life and a balance between the Word of God and its teaching and the Spirit of God.

Knowing that only God can build this church. Amen, and we hope to remember to repeat this later. But the website for Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California is Christ Bible Church org. Christ Bible Church org.

Now you could pick up Joe with the statistics. You were going to share.

We're talking a lot about the frustrations and disappointments of pastors. I want to share some statistics with you from the Barna group, which is pretty accurate give or take 5 these statistics. Display why their pastors are really hurting.

First one is that 4 ,000 new churches are planted each year just closed and then over says leave the pastorate. Every month last year people a day left the church last year and then 50 up. No other way of making a living to the extent that they needed to take a leave of absence.

Absence from the ministry which is under attack and the pastoral ministry is under attack by pressures from the outside Spiritual forces as well as pressures from the inside and That's a given if any Knows anything about the church and the pastorate.

There's a tremendous amount of pressure coming against it but thank God that some pastors survive and Endure the hardship and the conflict in ministry and if you and I say that carefully in something of all the frustrations and disappointments Of the ministry all right these negative effect in his ministry or they're not human.

They're not human. So can you can you imagine Chris hunters? Can you imagine how this would affect you all these negative things? Most people have no clue what their pastors and difficulties conflicts and the sheer pain Connected with being a pastor and there's a reason for these negative effects.

And they have a lot to do with the difficulties of the job itself. And I want to talk a little bit if if you don't and maybe Tom would like to add something I'd like to talk about the difficulties of the job, which many people do not realize are Inherent in the work itself.

Yeah, that's great. Go ahead. I.

Got to make one comment here. I think it. Transitions at the area radio in the turn toward understanding our place. Isolation to the body of Christ. There are many members edifying the body. Why did God give pastors and teachers in the first place?

Why did he call them and equip men to do these things and it is I believe Henry? I think this is part and parcel of what we should be doing as a ministry. Is not only so the body's complete history. How we can come alongside and encourage in any way we can.

Amen first with Tom. Would Tom just describe.

Yeah, I have to I have to make sure when I when I say that as well that I admit that I give a caveat.

So when I say the church of Jesus Christ, hey, right, of course. What Tom just said is all to be a light and difficulties of the job. Because I would encourage your listeners because. Though the work of the of a pastor is enormously difficult.

He does not have what it takes in and of himself. Why is the work of a pastor so difficult and challenging. Well, first of all because it's a 24 -7 job. We work 24 hours a day seven days a week. We never get away from it.

People need you when they need you Chris. Whether it's nine o 'clock at night or two o 'clock in the morning. If there's an emergency a call for the hospital a call to a sickbed people have serious problems.

You can't put that in a bottle. You can't predict that their problems can't be confined to Monday through Friday from 9 to 5. So pastors need to be available at any time and. Any pastor's unique challenges like like any other job some of these challenges are for example.

Most very small stat very great. And so the pastor finds himself torn between two very important things. Should I minister do I take care of a very important? Administrative situation that cannot be ignored right now.

So he's put time and sometimes he makes a mistake in terms of identifying his priorities. The next thing that is challenging or is that to do his job properly? He needs to be Multitalented. He must have many skill sets.

God will equip him and qualify him with these skills he must be a Bible teacher an accountant a Strategist a visionary a computer a mentor a leadership trainer a disciple maker. Sometimes it's like I fundraiser and that's not even talking about the spiritual qualifications.

That's just the many of the external ones. Another Difficulty is that the pastor's job is never complete. Or a baker where he can admire a completed Project like a big cake with people. And most of the people he ministers to and counsels.

Their Christian growth is like two steps forward one step backward not only in the good things. But in the one step backward where they call him and they've had a falling on him in this sense. Another difficulty about a pastor's job is the real work of the pastor is impossible.

Can you imagine if you applied to a job that you saw in the one ads that told you you won't be able to do? The job before you took the job.

But.

When you when he passed away, he's gotten himself in those. He does not have the ability to do the job where it really counts like 2nd Corinthians 3 says where the Apostle period the knowledge said Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves.

But our sufficiency is from God who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant not of the letter. But of the spirit is life. So unless this to create life to regenerate To sanctify and to renew life in people of me you can do nothing.

We read unless the look is falling on deaf ears, but it would be no pastor was my choice. I'd net and knowing about all the inherent difficulty many a pastor all because it's not a prod. Working through pastors is what?

Builds the kingdom of God in the hearts of people. Remember what Zechariah said. Chris. Not by might nor by power but by my spirit says the Lord of hosts. God working through him Can make him that advance that will follow the pastor into the next life and be trophies That will glorify God forever.

Praise God. We do have a listener.

With a question and. Let me go to that right now and let me remind our listeners. Also, if you'd like to join us, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. We have David in Ada, Ohio. And he says you reminded me of a study I did on dip on dispensationalists and J and Darby.

I seem to remember that he believed in all the men of the church were ministers and didn't have a place for a specific Pastor. Could you comment on this and the fallacy of it? And are you? Distinguishing.

Between.

Then let me see. This is this is. I had to enlarge the last part of his his Email, I'm sorry. It is microscopic the typeface and are you distinguishing between? Calvinistic and Arminian pastors in your ministry if so, how and if not why?

All right. Well Jill yes.

We are not distinguishing between Calvinistic and Arminian pastors because all the pastors that are called by God whether they be Calvinistic or Arminian suffer the same difficulties and trials and Face the same challenges.

I as though we may disagree on points of between the two systems of Calvinism and Arminianism. We're talking about the spiritual nature of the work Bible We teach doctrine, but when we talk about church growth and causing believers to grow spiritually Under the ministry of a related to that in Calvinistic and Arminian creatures when we talk about the need for spiritual growth and that's what I'm primarily talking about is the difficulties and the Challenges which hinder spiritual growth and a pastor's own life and ministry and in the life and ministry of the local church.

I think the other the other aspect of the eldership you're referring to that's the ecclesiology of the Plymouth brethren.

Basically the Plymouth.

I was just going to say one of the founders and that is the Plymouth between an office of pastor as we find in Ephesians for the one that described the Qualific of a pastor there we believe that there is the alternate office of a pastor as well as the office of a deacon.

And.

We believe that if which financially is able the full-time work of the ministry or part-time paid. That it is to the benefit and spiritual prosperity and profit of the church to will not see that by the way.

I want to just throw my two cents in Having as I said before the majority of my friends my closest friends are pastors. And they have been ever since I have been working in Christian media when our listener Wants to know if you treat reformed and Arminian pastors differently.

I have to say that having to Having grown deeply in my friendships With a number of Arminian pastors or just pastors outside of the reformed faith That to be perfectly honest, there are men of God who may be in error uncertain doctrinal and theological positions.

But are more faithful to the office of a shepherd or an under shepherd under Christ Than someone who is reformed just because you have your doctrine. You know correct in in most ways does not mean that you are faithfully.

Obeying the scriptures as an office bearer in the position of a pastor. Would you agree with what I'm saying Joe and Tom?

Absolutely that there are. There are pastors that I know.

That if it came to me having to confide in them for some earth-shattering thing that I have experienced There are some Arminian men that I would prefer approaching Privately about that or even enjoying their friendship than some Professively reformed men, I'm not.

I'm not speaking about my own pastors Who I love who are reformed Baptists, and I'm not saying that these men whom whose counsel I might prefer That is because of their Arminianism, it's in spite of their Arminianism or their non Calvinistic understanding.

Yes, I think it depends on the person the man himself. I have some pastor friends who are Arminian and though we may disagree on points of doctrine I have godly jealousy for some of them because they're more filled with the love of God I see in their character and their love for me.

Then I I have and I I long for what they have. Just like George Whitfield said of John Wesley the two classic examples of the doctrinal Differences between Calvinism and Arminianism between them Whitfield said of Wesley that Wesley would probably be Much closer to the throne of God then then in heaven then Whitfield.

Well, yeah, we have to go we have to go to our midway break right now. Sorry to interrupt you again. But this is our longer than normal break because grace life radio and Lake City, Florida Requires us to have this long way this this longer break midway through the show.

Because they have to localize iron sharpens iron radio to their local city their Lake City, Florida With their own commercials and public service announcements, so I would ask of you While they are their commercials and public service announcements, and we air hours that are globally heard.

I Would urge you to use this time wisely to write down questions for Tom Evans and Joe Jack what's a family radio and also to write down the information provided by our advertisers because without our advertisers we are not going to exist and The more frequently and successfully you patronize them the more likely we are going to remain on the air obviously.

So in order to do that Please write down the information Provided by our advertisers and and try to patronize them as often as you can. But we're going to our break now and our email address for questions is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Hopefully we'll hear from you soon, and we'll be right back after these messages.

Who Ministers to the Ministers? The Burdens of Pastoral Life and Church Support

Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad, assistant professor of systematic theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas. I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in The churches of our Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture.

I'm excited to be teaching Such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ. Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths.