March 20, 2019 Show with Thomas Evans & Joe Jacowitz on “What’s Happening at Family Radio?” AND “Who Ministers to the Ministers?”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown,

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania It's iron sharpens iron This is a radio platform in which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host

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Chris Arnzen Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live

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Streaming and iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio

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Wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this 20th day of March 2019 and I'm delighted to have two returning guests today

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Two very important guests who are going to be discussing new developments with family radio and family stations,

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Incorporated I'm speaking of Tom Evans the president and general manager of family radio and Joe Jackowitz the pastor -at -large for family radio and we are going to be discussing what's happening at family radio and who ministers to the

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Ministers and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you both back to iron sharpens iron radio

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Tom Evans and Joe Jackowitz Thank you very much Chris good to be here with you good to be with you my friend

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It's great to have you both back, and I'm going to give out our email address immediately For anyone who cares to join us with a question of their own our email address is

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Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris ar n ze n gmail .com

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Please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence If you live outside the

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USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter and by the way,

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I want to read with permission of Harold Camping's granddaughter

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Sarah Nunez a Beautiful letter that she wrote to me the day after Tom Evans made his debut interview on iron sharpens iron radio where he

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Publicly confessed Repentance over the heresies of Harold camping heresies that family radio and family stations,

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Incorporated had unfortunately perpetuated even after Harold Camping's death but they have now come to repentance and they are now transformed as a radio station and now a

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Friend and platform for the body of Christ for the Church of Jesus Christ Rather than an enemy of the church and it is such a thrill to know this but But Harold camping's granddaughter with permission.

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I am reading this permission from her She said dear Chris. I just wanted to say that I heard the interview

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Yesterday and Tom did a great job I think it's great for people to hear what family radio is doing after the end of the world garbage

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That was preached for so long. I'm Harold camping's granddaughter and I was born into it

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We were right in the thick of it and went to my grandpa's church and were followers of everything.

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He taught I Never even questioned it because after all I was just a child at the time and I looked up to my grandpa

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More than anyone in the world Tom Evans was actually my Sunday school teacher back in the day and was practically part of the family

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I would say that he needs a lot of prayer being in the position that he is at family radio

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There is some opposition to what he's trying to do removing my grandpa off the air completely after 2011

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I was extremely confused and started questioning everything I had ever been taught The only thing that I could come up with is that I still believe there was a

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God many kids I grew up with in our church became atheists and I knew that I still wanted to follow him by God's grace

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We my husband and our kids were able to move out of Alameda California away from my family and all the drama an hour away to the

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Central Valley We bought a little ranchette and our loving life in the country for the first time since the end of the church age

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We started looking for a church Also for the first time I felt God truly pulling me in his direction and we found an awesome church

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This church was handpicked just for us The pastor does discipleship with all the new families who come to the church

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When I was so confused about everything that it was just what I needed We started from scratch and we went over everything from the doctrines of grace to God's attributes and so forth

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Our family has come such a long way. It's amazing what God will do With you when you surrender everything to him

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Tom kept on saying how sorry he was for everything Well being in the camping family, even though I wasn't actively promoting anything

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You feel a guilt that your family was responsible for so much heartache and sorrow

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I grieved and I prayed for the families that were deeply affected for a long time for a very long time

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And praying that they didn't abandon the faith like so many did from our circle one thing

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I will say about my grandpa is that shockingly he did repent I was at their house all the time and in the hospital after his stroke

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He was deeply deeply sorrowful for what he did my husband and I would go over there and he would have his head buried in his hands and Just be saying how wrong he was about the whole thing and how sad he was

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His time on the radio was pretty much done though. They didn't let him on much after his stroke

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Yes, his memory was impaired But he didn't forget about everything he had done his memory really got better for a while before he died

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It was amazing to see the difference in the man that was running an empire and so powerful to a humbled man

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That was like a different person who is admitting that he was wrong about everything I just wanted to say that I appreciated the interview and he's speaking.

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She is speaking about the interview. I did with you Tom and The Lord is gracious and plenteous in mercy

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I thank him all the time for bringing us out of false teaching and hope to be a witness to those

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That are stuck somewhere in a cult like setting thinking they have all the answers

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Have a great week and thank you for your ministry regards Sarah Nunez Well, I just thought that that was a very moving letter and I thank

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God that she listened to that previous interview We did and that she took the time to write such a precious letter

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So let me begin with you Tom For for those of our listeners who aren't aware and of course

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I already indicated that family radio has gone through a huge transformation and I understand that Even the day after we had done our initial interview

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Where you were for the first time publicly in the media? professing repentance over the heresies of Harold camping

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I understand that the very next day anyone connected to the station or the network

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That was loyal to mr. Camping and his teachings Quit, so you are really have become fully untethered

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By anything connected to mr. Camping and have purged your airwaves from his presence and his teaching

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So I'll let you pick up where I just left off Tom Wow, yeah, indeed.

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There have been tremendous change tremendous learning. I appreciated that letter

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Sarah yeah, of course. I knew Sarah when she was a very from a very young age and Even after she became married to Jitin or husband

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God And kept tabs, but yeah, I would agree that Although I wouldn't say that everyone up and quit the next day

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I would say this that think God has removed as you mentioned the tethers holding family radio in In that back to the end of the church age in in the end of the world predictions

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We are no longer. In fact, one of the things we've really tried to do is look forward and Look at ways in which family radio

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This ministry can go forward in and in fact turn our attention towards the church itself and how we can

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Minister to the church add to the church encourage the church. That's really our aim right now.

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What can we do? understanding the ministry in our in the capability we have as a

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Broadcaster to further the gospel and to encourage the Saints encourage the body of Christ.

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That is our goal Praise God and So what new can you tell us about specific things whether they be?

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Programs whether they be about the music or whatever you have to say in regards to the developments

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That are occurring even as we speak in the trance in the continued transformation of family radio

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There indeed. I'm here with Joe Pastor Joe and in fact Joe, you know, I have spoken much about the this new one of the new arms of family radio is

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Ministry to as you mentioned Pastor to pastor we want to try to We understand looking at ourselves.

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We're all human beings and so I really want to Allow after Joe to kind of talk about this part this new part our aspect of family radio

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This new ministry opportunity we see so I agree that yep There are many things on the horizon for us and we can talk about some of those things but I really do and very encouraged by The you know the opportunity we have to encourage the body and especially pastors

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Chris one of the things that Tom and I and the leadership at family radio is very desirous is to Use as an instrument of God to support the church and to support its pastors

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I think if you sit back and watch and see what's going to come down the road the

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Lord blessing our plans and our efforts to be a tool of great edification and inspiration churches provide

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Spiritual resources to churches and to pastors in the form of encouragement especially over the airwaves and on our radio stations, but one of the most important aspects of The growth of the church and the spiritual health of the church is that of pastors?

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Pastors are a vital vital element and in terms of the growth of the church and if I could just take a couple of minutes to kind of give throughout the rest of this interview between Tom and myself give you an overview of what this new ministry is that family radio is launching here in the next few weeks and It relates to ministering to pastors it's a pastors ministry and so pastors are people like anybody else they need to be ministered to they are human being and They spend so much of their time ministering to other people

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Looking out for the welfare of the members of their church even unsafe people people outside their church that they reach out to But Chris who ministers to the minister?

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You know one of the world's greatest authorities on leadership and management I'll not say his name because I have a problem with with most of what he

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Emphasizes, but he is an expert an efficiency expert in the area of leadership and management in general and he said that the four hardest jobs in America are the president of the

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United States a University president a CEO of a hospital and a pastor

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According to the Barna group, which is a company that does surveys and statistics about Christianity in the church

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Approximately 85 % of churches in America have less than 200 people 60 % of churches are under a hundred people and the average size congregation in the u .s.

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Is 89 and 90 % of pastors say that the ministry was completely different regardless of the size of their church

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Then what they thought it would be like before they entered the ministry.

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That's a huge statistic 70 % of evangelical pastors that were surveyed that they have a lower self -image now than when they first started and so this

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Tells us that the pastor of a local church is a very important individual that has a big impact on the spiritual life of the local church and Therefore any negative effects on the pastor is going to roll downhill and have negative negative effects on the congregation

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But Chris many people do not understand 90 % of what a pastor boasts behind the scenes and 9 % of the struggles and sufferings.

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I know what I'm talking about I have a lot of friends across the United States around the world who are evangelical pastors

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I've been a pastor for 35 years and let me tell you this the job of a pastor takes its toll on People there are many negative effects on the pastor that most church members don't realize constantly happens even on a daily basis most of time and The work of a pastor is a very difficult job.

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It's one of the most difficult Positions a person can be in it takes them to find calling it takes

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Supernatural power of God to hold a pastor up for the long term The the work of a pastor is primarily and mostly

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Negative nature and these negative aspects of being a pastor catch up to you even doubting your calling as a pastor

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Actually, that's not a bad thing in many ways To doubt your calling which ultimately keeps you humble

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Pastors experience burnout they wear themselves out trying to help you Some some pastors are hurt because they see how much their family suffers because They so often are involved in ministry.

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It takes them away from their family. They endure a lot of criticism most of it is unfounded and What how can they handle that?

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Pastors can be criticized for a by people for a lot of things a lot of things. They also experience rejection constant rejection and so These are just a few things that make the ministry so negative oriented that it requires a divine pushback internally to console them and keep them going with a positive attitude and Trusting in the

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Lord. There's also the aspect of betrayal pastors have have get trade

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Sometimes by church members whom they've trusted with their burdens and they and these church members may end up telling the pastors

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Personal business to other people where the pastor makes light in them staff and and co -leaders in the church may may leave

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Unjustly may leave the church the pastor may trust the person in leadership with with the title or with Responsibility and that person may use their influence to actually leave the church start their own church take people away

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It's like the Judas syndrome So there's and now I'm not saying that pastors are perfect and that some some of their problems are caused by themselves

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Obviously, but a pastor can't be betrayed and it I don't know of any past that that is worth their salt

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That hasn't experienced everything talking about at one time or not Another thing is the loneliness of the ministry 70 % in a survey of pastors don't have someone they can really consider a close friend

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Someone whom that they can trust If I tell another pastor my problems Will he be able to relate to hopefully if he's a pastor he can or will he criticize me and tell others or treat me?

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Differently are my friends really my friends or a church member who is just a temporary friend

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Who may leave the church any day now, so there's this idea of loneliness this sense of detachment of where a pastor may get to a place where he really feel like he can't talk to anybody because he's been burned by Along police anytime then of course, here's the weariness back again going back to the survey 50 % of ministers start out

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That start out in the ministry will not last five years 50 % that's a huge statistic of ministers of seminary graduates

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Bible college graduates went through the ministry last tops five years

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There's that's a that's a huge statement about something. That's wrong Something that pests are missing something that they need desperately to equalize all these negative pressures and things 70 % felt

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God called them to pastoral ministry before their mission and but after three years of ministry only 50 % still feel called then there's the frustrations and disappointments in the ministry

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Disappointments come in many ways like low income There are many things pastors in this salary range of like thirty to forty thousand dollars here are not able to do for their family

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That other people do people in church members can do so There's also the added pressure of having to get a second job to provide for his family outside his work

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Pastor my own experiences and as a bivocational pastor out of 35 years

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I've had to work a second job for 18 of those years to be able to provide for my family

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But that causes another problem of frustration when you have to work Monday through Friday for 40 or 50 hours a week as a bivocational

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Pastor you can only you can only serve the church on nights and weekends but there's always a much greater need for pastors than Nights and week as weekends allow for so there's this frustration of not being able to Minister to the chief on a level that you really want to I remember in my own bed one day

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I got to a place of burnout working of a secular job and nights and weekends as a pastor

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And I I woke up Monday morning after a hard day at church preaching and ministering

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And I just couldn't get out of bed physically and spiritually and emotionally I was exhausted So I just buried my face in my pillow and I cried like a baby for deliverance

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Within a week God delivered me and it called me full -time into the ministry. So You know, there's there's this the frustration of elusiveness there are many areas of ministry in which

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Success according to the worldly definition of success is very difficult Pastors need to learn not to define their so -called

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Effectiveness by by looking around at them pastors can very hard on themselves Chris And so we work in an area that hard work and good effort

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Just does not guarantee that so let me just pause right there and see if Tom wants to jump in or before I I Can keep going for about three hours

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But do you have anything you want to add Yeah for me my perspective just looking just comparing my own experience indeed

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Being a pastor you or being someone in the congregation looking up at a pastor

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Often you don't sit down with them and and they share their heart with you It's hard but just hearing you and you're in my conversations

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Joe and just talking about this We see that Pastors are human beings just like we like we are look at our own struggles and this is something that I believe as part of the mission of family radio is to come along and Encourage comfort and edify the body including past and I think that there is a great need for us to Raise our understanding and awareness what a path to endure and you were saying we were talking about a

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Congregation is only as strong as the pastor and And I would say that about the church itself in America.

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We you know, so many pastors I've heard are talking about revival and the need for And I think that's the product of all the elements you're talking about here.

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I think that pastors teachers in fact, I was just bringing a passage where we

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Let the elders that rule. Well, this is First Timothy 5 verse 17

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Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the word and doctrine

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My own experience I know doing some study of the Bible that it takes an intense amount of study

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If you're going to stand up at the pulpit and say thus saith the Lord you had better know what you're talking about And that's one of the reasons why

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I realized God led me to the point where I realized I am NOT a teacher not a pastor not qualified It's helped me to respect and understand better the struggles that a pastor has to deal with I Immediately thought

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I just wanted to say one thing Joe. I immediately thought when we

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Had agreed to discuss who ministers to the ministers I don't know if my my dear late wife used that exact phrase

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But that was actually her question to me in the early 1990s

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If not exactly in those words pretty close to it when she came up with the idea for our annual pastors luncheons that I began in the 1990s even before I had iron trip and Zion radio and Initially we had to pay for everything out of her own pocket.

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She told me that she wanted to have She and I forgo

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The exchanging of Christmas gifts so we could afford to treat pastors to a

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Christmas luncheon every year I mean, that's what we did for years and years and the and the number of pastors that attended grew to such a

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Large number that we had to eventually get corporate sponsorship to help us And then

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I have continued the pastor's luncheon now doing them twice a year Usually in the spring and usually in the winter time somewhere between Christmas and January and I have taken up the

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The baton as it were after my wife entered into eternity with Christ and have continued to do this in her memory

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Also to be a blessing to the pastors and and it was her Vision to make this a complete time of rest relaxation and enjoyment for pastors

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There's no selling of anything In fact major publishers as you know all of the world

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I should say it all over the United Kingdom in the United States donate free books to the pastors you have shown up to Two of the luncheon so far with first love publishing and have given away books

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So I'm looking forward to seeing you again Hopefully in May on May 23rd when I'm having my next luncheon, which

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I'll be announcing in more detail later But I just wanted to say that in tribute to my wife because it was a burden to her who ministers to the ministers and She knew that I working in Christian radio

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Had a very high percentage of friends who were pastors and I still do most of my friends are pastors so Being in that unusual position.

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She wanted to launch those luncheons and Thanks be to God. They have continued ever since But I but I interrupted you

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Joe and I'm your ministry to pastors This is what family radio wants to do is to go deeply into the ministry of pastors

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Because pastors are really unsung heroes They don't get a lot of credit and a lot of people don't

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Understand the struggles that they have behind the scenes and how it is to the best interest of church members

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To do everything they can to alleviate the burden and the work of a pastor so that they can focus on their spiritual

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Responsibility we were talking about the frustrations and disappointments of pastors Many pastors work very hard, but but they find they're missing something.

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They're very sincere believers. They love God They know the word have a great content in their sermons, but somehow something's not working and they get frustrated and some days

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Leaders church leaders pastors can't they can't seem to do anything, right? And so they in their ministry they get momentum

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They see some fruits and then something bad happens to the church a church leader falls

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Relationships become strained and then they get depressed and if they don't come out of that depression

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It could have a big negative impact on on the church Things are going well, and then a couple of your biggest givers leave the church needs money

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But the pastor doesn't want to put much focus on money not about the money But it becomes about money with many churches and they get tempted to shift their focus

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From the spiritual things to the things financial or material. Let me just throw out a couple of Statistics here.

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In fact, Joe, could you hold off? I was gonna say hold off on the statistics until we return from our first break

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So we're going to our first station break right now If you care to join us on the air with a question of your own for Tom Evans President and general manager of Family Radio and Family Stations Incorporated or Joe Jackowitz Pastor at large for Family Radio and Family Stations Incorporated send us an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

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Chris Arnzen at gmail .com And as always, please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal private matter We'll be right back with Tom Evans and Joe Jackowitz on what's happening at Family Radio and who ministers to the ministers

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That's IRBS seminary org Two s's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon.

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.nyc Have a great day. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in today, we have as our guests returning to Iron Sherpins Iron Radio Thomas Evans president and general manager of Family Radio and Family Stations Incorporated and Joe Jackowitz the pastor -at -large at Family Radio and Family Stations Incorporated If you have questions for them about what's happening at Family Radio and also who ministers to the ministers

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Our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

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and Joe you were going to give us some statistics Before we went to the break and if you could also

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Right before that give our listeners sort of an overview of what you do as pastor -at -large for Family Radio Good question.

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What I do is I have direct contact with listeners who call in with questions about the

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Bible So I'll answer those questions listeners who call in for prayer

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Counseling I'll go ahead and take care of those calls and counsel people But I also am involved in helping with the develop these

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Ministries like the pastor ministry as well as the church relations elements of Family Radio so church relations of the pastoral ministry

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Heavily involved in the outreach part of Family Radio which

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We are really moving in Very quickly to as a support to the local church and to the pastors

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We want to reach out in various ways to be there for the church and pastors

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So I'm very much involved in that aspect of the Ministry of Family Radio And you are also pastor at Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California Why don't you share our listeners a little bit something about that?

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the Christ Bible Church, we're Calvinistic and Baptistic we are in the

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Tri -valley area next to the East Bay in Northern California about 30 miles east of San Francisco We have been going since 1990.

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So next February will be a church for 30 years. Thank God and We have a good mix in our congregation we focus on that expository preaching and Fellowship the love of the brethren body life and a balance between the

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Word of God and its teaching and the Spirit of God Knowing that only God can build this church.

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Amen, and we hope to remember to repeat this later But the website for Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California is

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Christ Bible Church org Christ Bible Church org now you can pick up Joe with the statistics you were going to share

37:20

So Chris, we were talking a lot about the frustrations and disappointments of pastors I want to share some statistics with you from the

37:27

Barna group, which is pretty accurate give or take 5 % and this these statistics

37:34

Display why their pastors are really hurting First one is that 4 ,000 new churches are planted each year and 7 ,000 churches closed so that shows you that there are more churches that closed than are planted and Then over 1 ,700 pastors leave the pastorate every month last year over 3 ,500 people a day left the church last year and Then 50 % of pastors feel so discouraged that they would leave the ministry if they could but have no other way of making a living and Then 45 % of pastors say that they've experienced depression or burnout to the extent that they needed to take a leave of absence absence from the ministry

38:18

So it shows you first of all that the church is under attack and the pastoral ministry is under attack by pressures from the outside spiritual forces as well as pressures from the inside and that's a given if any

38:35

Knows anything about the church and the pastorate there's a tremendous amount of pressure coming against it but thank

38:42

God that some pastors survive and Endure the hardship and the conflict in ministry and a few and I say that carefully a few even prosper spiritually

38:52

But all pastors work their salt Experience something of all the frustrations and disappointments of the ministry all of them that I just described these

39:04

Negative effects on the pastor and on his ministry or they're not human. They're not human

39:09

So can you can you imagine Chris how this would affect you if you were a pastor? What about our listeners?

39:15

Can you imagine how this would affect you all these negative things? most people have no clue what their pastors are going through in terms of the hardships and difficulties conflicts and the sheer pain

39:27

Connected with being a pastor and there's a reason for these negative effects and they have a lot to do with the difficulties of the job itself and I want to talk a little bit if if you don't have any questions or And maybe

39:43

Tom would like to add something I'd like to talk about the difficulties of the job which many people do not realize are

39:51

Inherent in the work itself Yeah, that's great. Go ahead. I know

39:58

I got to make one comment here. I think it One of the biggest transitions at Family Radio has been the turn toward understanding our place

40:10

From complete isolation to now embracing and understanding Okay within the body of Christ, there are many members.

40:19

There are different gifts talents How can and part of that gets into this whole this whole subject of?

40:27

Edifying the body. Why did God give pastors and teachers in the first place? Why did he call them and equip men to do these things and it is to edify the body?

40:38

And one of the things that I believe family radio can do and do it quite Well is to edify the body as opposed to condemn the body

40:47

So I would I think this is part and parcel of what we should be doing as a ministry is not only declaring the

40:55

Word of God to Cast the gospel further, but also as we read in Ephesians 4 for the perfecting of the same for the work of the ministry until Christ until the body is complete.

41:08

So I I We are embracing this fully as a ministry how we can come alongside and encourage others

41:17

Teachers in any way we can amen first with Tom what Tom just described is really good news for the

41:24

Church of Jesus Christ throughout not the Mormon Church Yeah, I have to make sure when

41:35

I when I say that as well that I admit that I give a caveat So when I say the Church of Jesus Christ, I was not going to say of the

41:44

Latter -day Saint, right? Of course What Tom just said is good news because family radio has a significant platform to be able to Encourage and strengthen the church in these days of great wickedness and immoral immorality and moral decay throughout the

42:04

United States and the world family radios in an excellent position to channel its resources now in in the coming months to really

42:15

Encourage the church to persevere in our culture and in our world to be a light and salt in the earth

42:22

But let's talk about the difficulties of the job because I would encourage your listeners To do everything they can to help pastors and to help the local church

42:32

Because the work of the of a pastor is enormously difficult. He does not have what it takes in and of himself

42:40

Why is the work of a pastor so difficult and challenging? Well, first of all, because it's a 24 -7 job.

42:48

We work 24 hours a day seven days a week We never get away from it People need you when they need you

42:54

Chris Whether it's nine o 'clock at night or two o 'clock in the morning If there's an emergency a call for the hospital a call to a sick bed people have serious problems

43:03

You can't put that in a bottle. You can't predict that their problems can't be confined to Monday through Friday from 9 to 5 so pastors need to be available at any time and Any pastor worth is salt understands that the next thing the next challenge is that?

43:22

It has unique challenges like like any other job and Some of these challenges are for example

43:31

Most churches and pastors have very small staff or it's just the pastor himself

43:37

But the needs are very great And so the pastor finds himself torn between two very important things should

43:44

I minister? To the spiritual need of something that came up or do I take care of a very important administrative?

43:51

Situation that cannot be ignored right now so he's pulled in different direction directions all the time and sometimes he makes a mistake in terms of identifying his priorities the next thing that is challenging for and Difficult for a pastor is that to do his job properly?

44:09

He needs to be multi -talented He must have many skill sets which is inherent in his qualification

44:16

Certainly God will equip him and qualify him with these skills but for example, he must be a

44:22

Bible teacher an accountant a strategist a visionary a computer tech a counselor a public speaker a worship director a prayer warrior a mentor a leadership trainer a disciple maker sometimes a psychiatrist a bus driver and a fundraiser and that's not even

44:41

Talking about the spiritual qualifications, that's just the many of the external ones

44:47

Another difficulty is that the pastor's job is never complete. What do you mean?

44:53

It's never complete because people are always a work in progress He very rarely gets to see a completed project

45:01

It's not like a pastor is a sculptor or a baker worry He can admire a completed project like a big cake or a statue

45:09

He's always dealing with people and most of the people he ministers to and counsels

45:15

Their Christian growth is like two steps forward one step backward So he's always dealing with them not only in the good things

45:22

But in the one step backward where they call him and they've had a fall. They've gone backwards instead of forwards

45:28

It's very very difficult Emotionally on him in this sense another difficulty about a pastor's job is the real work of the pastor is impossible

45:38

Can you imagine if you applied to a job that you saw in the one ads that told you you won't be able to do?

45:45

the job before you took the job Crazy but when any pastor who's been a pastor for three to five years knows

45:53

What he's gotten himself into and the real effective nature of the job is impossible The pastor the true pastor knows he does not have the ability to do the job where it really counts

46:04

Like 2nd Corinthians 3 says where the Apostle Paul the great Apostle Paul with all his experience and knowledge said

46:10

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves But our sufficiency is from God who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant

46:21

Not of the letter but of the spirit, but the letter kills, but the spirit is life So unless the spirit of God is working through him to create life to regenerate

46:30

To sanctify and to renew life in people Everything he does will fall on the ground

46:38

Remember Jesus said without me you can do nothing We read unless the Lord builds the house they labor in vain who build it

46:45

So God must work through the pastor or his work is falling on deaf ears without God's calling

46:50

There would be no pastors up to I tell you Tom if it was my choice. I'd never ever become a pastor

46:58

Knowing what that this is really an impossible job and knowing about all the inherent difficulties that are to the work you see many of pastors approach the work as a professional a paid professional doing their work through the administrations that they go through mechanically with formalism and they utterly fall because it's not a

47:22

Profession the Spirit of God working through pastors is what builds the kingdom of God in the hearts of people

47:29

Remember what Zechariah said Chris not by might nor by power, but by my spirit says the

47:36

Lord of hosts So only the Spirit of God working through him can make him effective in doing the job that's pleasing to God that advances the kingdom and that produces fruit and The kind of works that will follow the pastor into the next life and be trophies that will glorify

47:55

God forever Praise God we do have a listener with a question and Let me go to that right now

48:05

And let me remind our listeners also if you'd like to join us our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

48:12

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence

48:20

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter we have

48:27

David in Ada, Ohio and he says you reminded me of a study

48:35

I did on dip on Dispensationalists and J and Darby I seem to remember that he believed in all the men of the church were ministers and didn't have a place for a specific pastor

48:47

Could you comment on this and the fallacy of it and are you?

48:54

distinguishing Between them. Let me see. This is this is

49:01

I had to enlarge the last part of his his Email I'm sorry.

49:07

It is microscopic the typeface and are you distinguishing between? Calvinistic and Arminian pastors in your ministry if so, how and if not why?

49:19

All right, well Joe Well, I'll answer the second question first We are not distinguishing between Calvinistic and Arminian pastors because all the pastors that have called by God Whether they be

49:32

Calvinistic or Arminian suffered the same difficulties and trials and Faced the same challenges

49:39

The reason why is though we may disagree on points of doctrine Between the two systems of Calvinism and Arminianism.

49:48

We're talking about the spiritual nature of the work Primarily we teach the

49:53

Bible we teach doctrine, but when we talk about church growth and causing

49:59

Believers to grow spiritually Under the ministry of a pastor. We all have to deal with the same issues related to that and so there's really no distinguishing between Calvinistic and Arminian preachers when we talk about the need for spiritual growth and that's what

50:15

I'm primarily talking about is the difficulties and the Challenges which hinder spiritual growth and a pastor's own life and ministry and in the life and ministry of the local church

50:25

I think the other the other aspect of Eldership you're referring to that's the ecclesiology of the

50:31

Plymouth Brethren Basically the Plymouth I was just going to say one of the founders of the

50:37

Plymouth Brethren Church They make a distinction. That is the Plymouth Brethren Church between an office of pastor as we find in Ephesians 4 first Timothy 3 and Titus chapter 1 that describe the

50:52

Qualifications and the work of a pastor there. We believe that there is the office the

50:58

New Covenant office of a pastor as well as the office of a deacon and We believe that if possible if the church financially is able to Set aside a pastor for the full -time work of the ministry or part -time paid

51:15

That it is to the benefit and spiritual prosperity and profit of the church to do that The Brethren will the

51:23

Plymouth Brethren will not see that they will see that Elders or pastors the terms really are synonymous are to work full -time and they don't see the office of a pastor as a separate work of Or office within calling within the church.

51:41

By the way, I want to just throw my two cents in Having as I said before the majority of my friends my closest friends are pastors and they have been ever since I have been working in Christian media

51:55

When our listener Wants to know if you treat reformed and Arminian pastors differently.

52:02

I have to say that having to Having grown deeply in my friendships

52:09

With a number of Arminian pastors or just pastors outside of the reformed faith that to be perfectly honest, there are men of God who may be in error on certain doctrinal and theological positions

52:24

But are more faithful to the office of a shepherd or an under shepherd under Christ Than someone who is reformed just because you have your doctrine

52:35

You know correct in in most ways does not mean that you are faithfully

52:42

Obeying the scriptures as an office bearer in the position of a pastor

52:48

Would you agree with what I'm saying Joe and Tom? Absolutely. I agree 100 %

52:53

Yes, there are there are pastors that I know That if it came to me having to confide in them for some earth -shattering thing that I have experienced

53:07

There are some Arminian men that I would prefer approaching privately about that or even enjoying their friendship than some

53:17

Professively reformed men, I'm not I'm not speaking about my own pastors Who I love who are reformed

53:22

Baptists, and I'm not saying that these men who whose counsel I might prefer That is because of their

53:30

Arminianism it's in spite of their Arminianism or their non Calvinistic understanding

53:37

Yes, I think it depends on the person the man himself I have some pastor friends who are Arminian and though we may disagree on points of doctrine

53:45

I have godly jealousy for some of them because they're more filled with the love of God I see in their character and their love for me

53:52

Then I I have and I I long for what they have just like George Whitfield said of John Wesley the two classic examples of the doctrinal

54:02

Differences between Calvinism and Arminianism between them Whitfield said of Wesley that Wesley would probably be so far

54:10

Closer to the or so much closer to the throne of God then then in heaven then

54:16

Whitfield would ever be Well, yeah, we have to go. We have to go to our midway break right now

54:23

Sorry to interrupt you again, but this is our longer than normal break because grace life radio in Lake City, Florida Requires us to have this long way this this longer break midway through the show

54:38

Because they have to localize iron sharpens iron radio to their local city their

54:44

Lake City, Florida With their own commercials and public service announcements, so I would ask of you

54:51

While they are their commercials and public service announcements, and we air hours that are globally heard.

54:56

I Would urge you to use this time wisely to write down questions for Tom Evans and Joe Jack what's a family radio and Also to write down the information provided by our advertisers because without our advertisers we are not going to exist and The more frequently and successfully you patronize them the more likely we are going to remain on the air obviously

55:20

So in order to do that Please write down the information Provided by our advertisers and and try to patronize them as often as you can but we're going to our break now

55:31

And our email address for questions is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

55:36

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Hopefully we'll hear from you soon, and we'll be right back after these messages I'm Stephan Lindblad assistant professor of systematic theology at IRB s theological seminary in Mansfield, Texas.

55:51

I Accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in The churches of our

55:59

Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths

56:20

Indeed future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people

56:28

If you want to learn more about our program visit us online at IRB s seminary org

56:39

Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here. I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many years

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His name is Dan, but if you go Dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer

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But not the type that typically comes to mind Dan cares about people and is a theologian himself

56:57

Recently he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the Bible Ravi Zacharias wrote the forward

57:04

Dan also has a master's degree in theology Dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states

57:12

He represents many Christians in serious injury matters all over the country Dan is an exceptional trial lawyer he wrote the test for the

57:21

National Board of Trial Advocacy and Currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for 1 million dollars or more and in an approximately 10 different states in Illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in New York his case involving a paralyzed police officer

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Made the front page of the law journal if you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state

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I recommend that you call Dan Consultations are free. There is no fee unless you win

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Dan, but a few goes number is 1 -800 -669 -487 -8 1 -800 -669 -487 -8 or email me for Dan's contact information at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

58:10

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com You Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am

58:21

I now seeking the approval of man or of God? Or am I trying to please man if I were still trying to please man?

58:28

I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church We are a reformed

58:34

Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts We strive to reflect

58:42

Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

58:47

Than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity But since that wasn't the

58:53

Apostles priority, it must not be ours either We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate

58:58

Love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build

59:06

Up the body of Christ in truth and love if you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area

59:12

Please come and join us for worship and fellowship You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.

59:18

That's 508 -528 -5750 Or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our

59:26

TV program entitled resting in grace You can find us at Providence Baptist Church ma org

59:32

That's Providence Baptist Church ma org or even on sermon audio calm Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio

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One sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers

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Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century

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We're a diverse family of all ages Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship play and together.

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Of God three years ago. I discovered a poor small church outside Lusaka, Zambia in a township called

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Cabanana Who are taking care of 24 orphans? I found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding

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What was I to do? Could I just say God bless you and walk away? The situation of the children said heavily upon me as I was praying concerning this need it came to me

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Bethlehem Baptist Church will pay the fee to get the funds there So if you give a dollar a dollar we'll get to the orphans in this season of hope and giving will you consider giving hope?

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to 24 orphans Please send your gift of any amount to Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or donate through our website

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BBC Laurel calm again The address is Bethlehem Baptist Church 838

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Reed Road, Laurel, Mississippi 39443 or BBC Laurel calm.

01:04:49

Thank you Hi, I'm Stephan Lindblad assistant professor of systematic theology at IRB s theological seminary in Mansfield, Texas I Accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in The churches of our

01:05:07

Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of scripture and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths

01:05:27

Indeed future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people

01:05:36

If you want to learn more about our program visit us online at IRB s seminary org

01:05:43

My name is Steve Lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for Ligonier ministries

01:05:50

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Masters Seminary in Los Angeles I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students

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Andy Woodard serves as the pastor It's called New Covenant Church NYC. They are a reformed

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Baptist Church that meets in Midtown, Manhattan You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc

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.nyc They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel

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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching in New York City I'd like to recommend that you visit

01:06:32

New Covenant Church NYC Again, their information can be found at www .ncc

01:06:39

.nyc Have a great day Listening to Christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually even many of the major Christian networks that include

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01:11:39

We just have a few announcements regarding upcoming events that we want you to attend Let's see we have on Saturday March 30th at 6 30 p .m

01:11:48

The Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York is going to be hosting a debate on the theme purgatory

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Is it biblical between my good friend pastor Bruce Bennett the pastor of Word of Truth Church and Roman Catholic?

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Apologist Matthew Luke Broderick, that's purgatory Is it biblical on Saturday March 30th 6 30 p .m

01:12:11

At the Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York for more details. Go to WOT church .com

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WOT which stands for word of truth church .com or you could call them at 6 3 1 8 0 6 0 6 14 6 3 1 8 0 6 0 6 14

01:12:30

Then coming up on Thursday, May 23rd The event that I mentioned earlier in the program the iron sharpens iron radio pastors luncheon is going to be held

01:12:41

God willing that's Thursday, May 23rd from 11 a .m. To 2 p .m At the Carlisle, Pennsylvania fire -and -rescue banquet hall all men in ministry leadership are welcome

01:12:51

Whether you are a pastor or an elder, which I believe are the same thing a deacon a parachurch leader

01:12:58

Any man in church leadership is welcome to attend. We Unfortunately do not have the resources or the room for the wives.

01:13:06

So please this is only for men in ministry leadership and dr. Costa Dr.

01:13:12

Tony Costa is our speaker once again at the pastor's luncheon and he is going to be speaking on how the

01:13:19

Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the Holy Scriptures And this is absolutely free of charge

01:13:26

Each pastor is going to be leaving with a heavy sack of free books brand new books that I have selected for my guests from Nearly every single major Christian publisher in the

01:13:39

United States in the United Kingdom Every year twice a year. These fine folks are generous enough to provide a

01:13:47

At least a hundred copies of each book I select so that every man in attendance can leave with a heavy sack of free books

01:13:54

So you're talking typically between 20 and 30? books Per pastor who attends and my friend

01:14:02

Joe Jackowitz has been showing up with first love publications And giving away free books as well.

01:14:07

So please mark that on your calendar if you want to register for this free event Send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com

01:14:14

Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put in the subject line I want to attend the pastor's luncheon then coming up in May Actually that event was made as well but later in May I should say

01:14:28

May 28th through the 30th The banner of truth is having their East Coast ministers conference on the theme

01:14:35

I believe in the Holy Spirit and the speakers are Jeff Kingswood Terry Johnson David Vaughn a

01:14:42

Reformed Baptist missionary in France Stephen Nichols who is the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late

01:14:47

RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries Michael Morales and Chad Vegas I will be there God willing and I look forward to seeing you there if you can attend and I urge you to attend

01:14:58

For more details go to banner of truth org banner of truth org click on events and then scroll down to East Coast ministers conference

01:15:05

And the conference will be held in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania at the Elizabethtown College so I hope to see you there

01:15:13

May 28th through the 30th at the East Coast ministers conference of the banner of truth and then

01:15:20

The foundation's conference is being held December 19th and the 20th in New York City my old stomping grounds this is going to be a

01:15:29

Phenomenal conference as it always is. I'm sure And the speakers are extraordinary.

01:15:36

First of all, dr. Stephen Jay Lawson who you just heard a little while ago in the advertisement for New Covenant Church NYC a sponsor of this program.

01:15:46

He is going to be speaking there. Most of our listeners I'm sure are familiar with the powerful preaching of dr.

01:15:52

Stephen Jay Lawson of one passion ministries Paul Washer has joined the lineup and if you haven't heard

01:15:58

Paul Washer, you've got to hear this brother He is truly an extraordinary man for our time

01:16:04

Reverend Jeff Thomas, what a what a powerful preacher He is to a retired pastor from Wales a dear brother so gifted and yet so humble

01:16:14

Reverend Armin Tomasian who I think is going to become a household name within the next decade amongst reformed

01:16:19

Christians He's a young man, but has a wisdom and ability in preaching far beyond his youth

01:16:26

Far beyond the years of his youth Richard Caldwell and Andrew Quigley are also on the roster if you want to register

01:16:32

I would do so quickly because they can only hold approximately 200 people in this venue so go to the foundations conference comm the

01:16:41

Foundations conference comm and you'll have all the information that you need. That's December 19th and 20th in New York City The foundations conference and last but not least if you love

01:16:52

Iron Sherpens Iron Radio, you don't want us to disappear from the airwaves, please Contribute to us as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can by going to iron

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Donate to us as frequently as you can and as heavily as you can if indeed you want us to stick around and not

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Disappear from the airwaves. That's Chris. That's iron Sherpens iron radio .com. Click support then click click to donate now if you want to email me

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With requests to advertise because we really could use your advertising dollars as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what we believe send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

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chrisarnsen at gmail .com and Put advertising in the subject line

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We will help you launch an ad campaign as soon as possible If you are without a church home, and you're not prayerfully looking for one you're living in rebellion against God.

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So please Send me an email and say in the subject line. I need help finding a church home.

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I Have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I can help you find a church home I've already helped a number of people in the iron

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Sherpens iron radio audience all over the world find churches near them that are faithful to the scriptures and I can help you to send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:18:58

and Put I need a church home in the subject line That's also the email address where you can send in a question for our guests today

01:19:05

Tom Evans president of family radio and Joe Jackowitz pastor at large at family radio

01:19:11

Our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com chrisarnsen at gmail .com

01:19:17

and as always, please give us your your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the

01:19:25

USA and Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter

01:19:32

And as you may remember Tom Evans and Joe Jackowitz, we have a question.

01:19:40

It's a specifically especially for Tom Evans But of course Joe you could chime in as well This is from a first -time

01:19:49

Questioner, but I know who he is. So I'm going to give his full name and the name of his church I typically only give the full names and churches of folks that I have very high confidence in where we have pastor

01:20:04

Austin Huggins of Christ Evangel in Baghdad, Florida interesting name for a city and he asks

01:20:14

Finding a means to genuinely minister to authentic God -ordained ministers is a tall order indeed

01:20:21

Due chiefly to the fact that their needs are a unique commingling of physical

01:20:27

Natured needs and spiritual natured needs. Is there a particular plan to target those two specific areas?

01:20:35

And I'm assuming he's talking about with family radio and it would in what ways Also, is there any long -term future plans to extend such a ministry to the pastors of the third world?

01:20:47

Where the needs are often uniquely great. That's Austin Huggins pastor of Christ Evangel in Baghdad, Florida and the website for his church is

01:20:58

Christ evangel .org Christ evangel .org, but Tom if you could start Thanks, Austin a great question

01:21:07

Lord willing Yeah, I think Well, first of all,

01:21:14

I think the signal change or shift or turning back and I for family radio.

01:21:22

I don't know if you Or any of us, you know when we're in the midst of something in there

01:21:27

We feel that we're alone in this battle and yet someone comes alongside us and says hey

01:21:35

Hey, brother. I see what you're up against and we're here and we're fighting with you and And I think of a analogy

01:21:43

I would use if you're on it in a trench during World War one and You look up and down the trench and you see your fellow soldiers there and you look at one another knowing

01:21:55

You all know the same thing. We're here together. I Think that is just we're not saving doing anything other than here.

01:22:03

We are we're Trying to come alongside and say hey brother We're here and we want to come alongside you and encourage you now as for You know some of the other needs yes, it is a tall order and yes family radio we have several things that we're

01:22:22

Attempting to do at one time but nevertheless God willing we want to embrace the body and do all we can and Continue to do praying for wisdom

01:22:33

Lord. Where would you have us go has always been our prayer of late

01:22:39

Lord What would you have us do? Long term with love all of us know our our job

01:22:46

The only reason we're here in this world is to declare the gospel and would it be that God would give us free course do that both here and overseas so international ministry to me

01:22:58

It's very dear to my heart because I've been there. I've done that. I've done quite a bit of it overseas and I've seen

01:23:05

And I've been especially blessed to hear the reports from Pastor Joe and first love of The missions that they're doing overseas and trying to come and train and encourage pastors in Africa and some of these other areas in which they have their ministry is

01:23:25

Branching out and I see the need I mean, but we have to take care of our house

01:23:31

First you gotta take care of our clean our own house get it ready And then we can pray that God would lead us and open the doors for further ministry.

01:23:40

Yeah I think that We're taking one step at a time

01:23:45

We're going to talk in just a few minutes about this pastors ministry that we're launching we're right at the beginning at the threshold of Launching this ministry here in just a couple of weeks and we're going to take one step at a time with it

01:23:59

Family radios ministry over the airwaves of preaching the gospel to every Creature works in tandem with our ministry to the local church and the pastors

01:24:10

Because when people get saved that they're added to the church and part of the Great Commission is not only to preach the gospel

01:24:17

But it's also to teach the believers all things which Christ has commanded them

01:24:22

So discipling and teaching believers church members and encouraging pastors is just a natural outflow from the ministry of preaching the gospel and family radios

01:24:34

Programs are designed to feed and nourish the sheep of Christ We have a very very strong lineup of teaching programs that do that But now we are

01:24:45

Expanding our ministry to churches and to pastors to go to the next level not just for the short term

01:24:52

But for the long term, but we have to start somewhere so we have to start with baby steps and we just Take one step at a time based on God's providence and provision

01:25:02

And so we encourage our listeners to pray for us at family radio pray that God would use family radio to be a great boon and Spiritual encouragement and channel to increase the spiritual life of the church

01:25:19

The love of the brethren and the light of God's truth through pastors and through church members

01:25:27

If I might continue Chris, yes I just want to summarize in a short period what I was going to say about the difficulties of the ministry and The nature of the pastoral ministry

01:25:39

We're talking about the need for pastors to be ministered to They need to be fed so that they in turn can go and feed others

01:25:47

We're talking about the difficulties of the ministry like the real work of a pastor is impossible for him to do

01:25:54

Naturally and in the flesh another aspect of it is as a pastor You never reach journeyman level in the most important area of the work, which is the spiritual element of the work and a pastor will occasionally forget if he experiences some measure of prosperity and Effectiveness and see some fruit that you can't rely on past successes or effectiveness in the past The Bible says let him who thinks he stands take he lets you fall pride comes before a fall.

01:26:24

So as a pastor Where the work really counts in the hearts of people

01:26:30

You have to start fresh every day and rely on the power of the Holy Spirit To build the kingdom in the hearts of people

01:26:38

You must rely upon and look to Christ each day to do the work that we can't do as human beings in the hearts

01:26:45

Of people through the power of the Spirit of God Another difficulty of the ministry is carrying the spiritual burdens of the flock.

01:26:53

This weighs the pastor down It's like I can never get away for it. I could leave The ministry of family radio or whatever

01:27:01

I'm doing and go home and I'm eating with my wife and my mind begins to drift I'm on by my wife says come back to me.

01:27:07

Come back to me In other words are the burdens of people weigh on you because we're human beings and what people share their most difficult struggles with you in such an

01:27:19

Private and confidential way. These are things that they would trust with no one else except maybe the

01:27:24

Lord and their pastor Those things weigh on you if you're a human being they weigh on you if you're a compassionate person unless you're like stone and have

01:27:32

No heart they weigh on you So these burdens are constantly before you that come into your mind day and night if they don't you're just the paid professional without compassion and sympathy you see

01:27:43

So the ninth thing is that the ministry takes an enormous physical emotional and spiritual toll on a true pastor

01:27:53

Sometimes you feel you're you're exhausted all the time unless you get relief You're always having a multitask your mind and your spirit is spread all over the place.

01:28:02

You feel overwhelmed sometimes abandoned and Loneliness loneliness is a big problem

01:28:09

You feel like you can't talk to anybody because they won't understand you as a pastor I've tried it my colleagues have tried it to share your intimate struggles and needs and people come back with well

01:28:20

Why don't you just do this and come back with some kind of medicinal position like answer to give you a remedy and they have

01:28:26

No clue what what you're trying to do So what plus there's unjust criticism and attacks on you and your family that really really hurt and it takes a lot to overcome

01:28:36

Them by God's grace the preparation for ministry and the ministry itself requires a great sacrifice on the on the part of the pastor and his family and Sometimes a pastor feels like he's on the verge of a nervous breakdown and He has to turn aside and just we constantly

01:28:55

There's almost a day that doesn't go by where we're not weeping And in a sanctified in good way in one way or another the

01:29:02

Apostle Paul said and dying we yet We live as chastened and not killed as sorrowful yet always rejoicing

01:29:09

He's talking about the fact that a pastor is not schizophrenic But he's carries these spiritual burdens on the one hand and then on the other hand

01:29:17

He has to maintain spiritual and emotional and mental sanity and those two things take place simultaneously

01:29:23

Now who can bear all that? Who can be all of that? Without a daily miracle of grace and the supernatural power of God.

01:29:32

Nobody can and that's why it's a unique calling Yeah, I I'm I mean

01:29:38

Just listening to you. I can relate to what you're talking about Very much. So any you know, we talked about just the spiritual warfare that exists you know when you're trying in this world to further the gospel in whether you're a pastor or you're

01:29:55

Someone a layman or anyone anyone who's faithfully like you said the more faithful you are the more you're going to experience persecution and or spiritual warfare but to me that Hearing what you're talking about like going down this list

01:30:13

I can relate to what you're what you're saying so all the more for us to those of us who look upon a pastor with respect and Now think

01:30:26

Hmm, what can I do to encourage him in his ministry as opposed to the other way?

01:30:33

Condemn him or like you were talking about work If I am encouraged to hear what you're talking about just the

01:30:41

Infinite struggles of a pastor for me to know how to pray for him. They're encouraging for me

01:30:50

We have a crystal Go ahead We have a question from a listener If you want to hold that thought and try to remember what you were going to say

01:30:58

Unless you want to just say what you were going to say and I could go to the listener after yeah I'll just take a few seconds. I was going to talk briefly on the nature of the pastoral ministry

01:31:06

To try to understand why a pastor has so many difficulties and afflictions and hardships in the nature of the work

01:31:14

It's because first of all ministry in general is hard work even as a Christian whatever your gift and calling it

01:31:20

But this is especially true for a pastor It was never supposed to be easy.

01:31:26

The Christian life is is we're supposed to have self -denial Another thing is in terms of the nature of the work is that there are so many pastors that have

01:31:35

Unrealistic and unbiblical Expectations and that's why many of them leave the ministry so early never to return as pastors to a church

01:31:44

Another problem is the bad examples There are so many men who are in ministry for the wrong reasons

01:31:52

I go on mission trips all the time and have pastors conferences. We preach so many of these men have unscriptural

01:32:00

Expectations and unscriptural Understanding of what what the pastor is because their self -image as a pastor is being developed by by the wrong models they're looking at where you have greedy men who are charlatans in the ministry and these

01:32:16

Young men who are called are looking at bad examples and so we have to have a biblical self -image that sees ourselves as God sees us and Is humble the pastor is called to a very high standard

01:32:30

He's he must be an example. He must walk the walk not just talk the talk He must emulate

01:32:36

Christ and what it means to be a Christian in his speech and action Others may do stuff by way of Christian Liberty that he cannot do because he would be missing misunderstood if he did them so he he called he's called to a higher standard to sacrifice more than others and If not the effect of a pastor's ministry on the church for bad and by a bad example

01:32:57

Can really affect it in a in a very negative way? You've heard of the saying as Tom mentioned so goes the pastor so goes the church

01:33:05

There's tremendous reality to the saying that as the church's spiritual life has a direct impact

01:33:10

By the man and his message so goes the church Praise God We have

01:33:18

John and Bangor Maine who says Although I am personally opposed to the hierarchical structures of denominations

01:33:27

I think that independent autonomous congregations Should have frequent and close fellowship with like -minded

01:33:36

Congregations this I am sure Would aid in the pastors having burdens lifted off of them when they need counsel and advice and even sometimes

01:33:45

The physical cooperation of other churches to help accomplish things that Christ's expects of shepherds of the flock do you agree with this

01:33:56

I Agree with that The hierarchical structure we don't see in the

01:34:01

Bible We see pastors are equal in parity and in authority

01:34:07

And that's why there's this loose Relationship among evangelical churches where every pastor even the believers like the

01:34:14

Bereans have a right to check pastors out To bring things to their attention if their behavior or their example or their teaching is wrong the

01:34:23

Bible says the spirit of the prophets is subject to the prophets and even though I may not have authority over another pastor or his church members

01:34:31

I have the right to go to someone who has bad teaching or just as a brother and Challenge him in love without condemnation and in gentleness.

01:34:41

And so I think that we should develop relationships with other pastors and other sister churches like of like faith and practice not only for the fellowship but for the check and balance and love that it provides

01:34:55

Amen, and by the way, I forgot to mention before we go to the final break pastor Austin Huggins Since you are a first -time questioner today.

01:35:03

You have won a free New American Standard Bible Compliments of the publishers of the NASB and compliments of cvbbs .com

01:35:12

That's Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service cvbbs .com who will be shipping that Bible out to you.

01:35:18

So please Email me your your full mailing address in Baghdad, Florida. We're going to our final break right now

01:35:25

It's going to be a lot more brief than the last one Please if you have an email with a question that you are intending to send us do it quickly because they're rapidly running out of Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:35:38

chrisarnson at gmail .com Don't go away. God willing. We will be right back after these messages from our sponsors

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Listen to the first love radio even when we go off the air here at iron sharpens iron radio

01:45:46

So you could be blessed by pastor Joe Jackowitz of Christ Bible Church in Dublin, California We are now back with our final segment of today's interview with Tom Evans and Joe Jackowitz of family radio

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And we have a listener Let's see here. We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York Who says it's refreshing to hear of a parachurch organization like family radio

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That is dedicated to being an arm of the church to assist the church and help the church and uplift the church

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So many parachurch organizations are all about themselves Some of them don't even mention anything about the local pastor or the local church

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They act as if they are the pastors for everybody who either listens to their radio programs or TV programs

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Or just knows about them in general. Don't you think that is very important for all parachurch organizations?

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To let those who support them know that the church is a an ordained thing for Christians to be a participant in and a

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Parachurch organization may be a help but it is no replacement or even on the same level as a church and Tom if I hope you could start

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Tom. Yeah Well, that's a pretty strong statement. And yeah, I do I certainly if anything

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I Agree and in and I would add to that that yes

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We those who of us who claim the name of Jesus Christ and have been called into the family

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Christ's family God has told us very specifically in Ephesians chapter 4 for example that he gave some

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This is verse 11 of Ephesians chapter 4 Gave some Apostles and some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers

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For the perfecting of the same for the work of the ministry and for the edifying of the body of Christ and this will happen

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Till or until all come in the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God Unto a perfect man unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ God has given us and ordained and called and called out

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Individual men for this purpose and he's equipped them and Therefore we are to give them honor honor to whom honor is due.

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And so I would agree Family radio is not an extra You know a ministry outside of the body.

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It is a contributor to the body of Christ. So I would wholeheartedly agree And Chris, can

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I just take a minute to just give a word of encouragement because we've talked so much about the negative aspects of the

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Ministry and the difficulties connected with it. I Wanted to encourage your listeners how they might help their pastor

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I would say first of all pray for your pastor daily pray for guidance wisdom his family his marriage

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Pray for inspiration for the filling of the spirit Secondly protect your pastor.

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Don't don't allow anyone to gossip and criticize Help lighten his load ask yourself.

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How can I help my pastor number three encourage your pastor? Don't flatter him, but encourage him.

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There's Pastors live for the reward of seeing their efforts be blessed by God And so if God has used your pastor encourage him once in a while now a word to pastors

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Let me say my pastor brother Don't give up keep on keeping on your work your labor of love and your sacrifice matters

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God says in Hebrews 6 10 for God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love

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Which you have shown towards his name and that you have ministered to the saints and do minister

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Don't be weary and well -doing for in due season. You shall reap if you don't lose heart

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Secondly watch out for the comparison trap don't compare yourself or your ministry to others

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Look at the Lord Jesus number three be faithful Just be faithful in your ministry number four keep your focus on Christ And when you fail repent be renewed and Christ will recommission you send you back out just like he did

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Peter and lastly be healed God's way Earthly comforts can help take a vacation

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Take a rest have some good pastor friends But the best rehabilitation comes from Christ himself as he cleanses your heart of fresh in his blood

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To restore clean hands a good conscience and a pure heart now Chris I'd like to close because I know we only have a few minutes left in the program

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With the announcement of the launching of family radios pastors ministry We recognize the daunting and vital work of a pastor at family radio as Tom has pointed out and And the leadership has decided to reach out to pastors and help them in various ways we're launching family radios pastors ministry with the

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Beginning of a pastor's prayer breakfast here in the San Francisco Bay Area on April 6

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Saturday April 6 from 9 a .m To 1030 we're just going to be pastors praying together

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Bearing one another's burdens praying with one another and if you want to be part if you live in the

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Bay Area Or you know some pastor who does? Just send them my way. You can call family radio at eight hundred five four three 1495 give me a call and we'll send out information or you can go to family radios website

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Which is family radio org that's family radio org the phone number again is eight hundred five four three 1495

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I'm pastor Joe Jackowitz just ask for pastor Joe or send me an email at family radio org and We will we will connect with the pastor

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We hope to plant a branch of the pastor's prayer breakfast in Southern, California for our stations

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There in Northern, California and then across the country. So we hope to have God willing

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Quite a few of these pastors prayer breakfast Sponsored by family radio to bring pastors together to pray for revival to pray for the pastors and for the local church praise

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God we have Let's see here we have

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CJ and Lindenhurst Long Island, New York who says how do we convince? in your opinion in the best way a

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Reluctant skeptical friends who cannot bring themselves to trust family radio again

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After what they may have experienced personally even either in their own lives and families or their churches

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Well, I would say follow the biblical principle of forgiveness and acceptance just like if you had a brother in church who did something wrong and He comes to you and repents and asks for forgiveness

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You would be obligated to forgive them and move on if a family member a mother father sister brother came to you

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And did and after doing something wrong and asked for forgiveness you would forgive them It's the

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Christian principle of forgiveness family radio has publicly and in other ways

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Apologized and believe me friends as a pastor I know I've worked for family radio in this wonderful ministry for 20 years since 1994 and their their repentance is genuine and now they've embraced a

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Policy and a future that will will right the wrongs They've already been doing it and also a wonderful plan to be the biggest supporter

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I believe of the church and the pastor well one of the biggest supporters of the ministry of the church and pastor you will ever find so all we ask for is a second chance and Give us a chance to prove ourselves.

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This is a Ministry that will you will see by action. That is a great boon and will be a great boon to the church

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And Tom do you have anything to add? Sure. I mean in first Timothy chapter one.

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Well, first of all, I certainly Understand of course that yeah, there's been a lot of harm that has been caused in the past and But I would remind this

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Gentleman in this friend that look at the first Timothy chapter 1 in verse 13 Even the

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Apostle Paul himself People didn't trust him at first I mean look at what he had done and he said in verse 13 who was before a blasphemer a persecutor and injurious

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But I obtained mercy because I did it ignorant with me and I'm ignorantly in unbelief

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And in verse 14 and the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant With faith and love which has been

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Christ Jesus. I Mean if we examine ourselves, we're all I mean we need the mercy of God, but nevertheless like Joe said

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We got to prove what we what we say rather than just say So it's our attempt to really put feet to what we are

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Changes that have occurred and yeah, it's going to take time for people to trust us. That's okay

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We'll do our best to prove our trust And if you could now

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Tom just summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in about two minutes time

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Sure. I think the body of Christ we all in my Observation of the church.

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There are many pastors Famous and not so famous who are calling for the

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Reformation of the of the Church of Jesus Christ Our culture we can look out there and we can see that there is a huge void of truth and Can we be family radio be a messenger and encourager as opposed to what we have been?

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basically in isolation and poking and Condemning the church rather turn that around and say okay

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What can we do and be to become another voice out there to strengthen the church in the midst of a culture?

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Where the church has been greatly uneroded the presence and the not so much the presence but the influence of the

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Church of Jesus Christ in this world, I trust that God has a plan and That we are excited about what

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God is going to do. His plan can't be thwarted. He is sovereign So we can trust him and have confidence be not afraid

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Go forward and We carry the truth with with us and we don't need to be ashamed of the truth

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And pastor Joe in about one minute. Do you have anything to conclude the show with? before I conclude let me encourage you if you're interested in supporting pastors and Our ministry to pastors you can call me at eight hundred five four three 1495 that's family radios main number as for pastor

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Joe That's eight hundred five four three 1495 or go online to our website and send me an email

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Web address is family radio org family radio org Praise God.

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Well, let's also Christ that dead go ahead Joe the

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Lord Jesus Christ died for the church and The Lord is very concerned as we look through the lens of Revelation chapters 2 & 3

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Of for an interested in the spiritual health and life of the church and of pastors who feed the church and Family radio is dedicated and committed to supporting and encouraging both pastors and the local church

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This is a work that is very close to the heart of God very pleasing to God to do anything we can to build up the faith of believers and church members and to inspire and comfort and Strengthen pastors and this is a very great work if you can pray for family radios

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Ministry to pastors that will launch on April 6 We would really appreciate it because we need help

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We realize that the enemy is going to come against us, but we have the Lord Jesus Christ praying for us

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We have an intercessor in heaven. We have an intercessor within the Holy Spirit helping us

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Please pray for family radio and it's outreaches the pastors Amen and I also like to plug an excellent book that is published by solid ground

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Christian books one of our sponsors It is actually the combination of two different booklets by reformed giants of history the duties of church members to their pastors and A plea to pray for pastors by John Angel James and Gardner spring

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This is two booklets in one available through solid ground Christian books When I order some for your entire congregation at solid ground books calm solid ground books calm

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And I want to thank both you Tom Evans and you Joe Jackowitz for being my guest today I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who took the time to write in questions