The Doctrine of the Trinity

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It is good to be with you today. I woke up very early this morning someplace else and that's how road tripping works and I am
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I am NOT a Lifelong RVer or anything like that So those of you who are take pity upon me pray for me as I as I learn all of the tricks of the trade
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This is my second trip. I went north the first time and Unfortunately, there is something called the
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Rocky Mountains North of me I I'm not sure there is a hill between Conway and here.
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I I didn't run into one That was pretty amazing. That was that was my truck got into a nice rhythm and just that was fun.
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That was very nice Until we got off the real nice highways and then it's like oh, this is interesting
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Look at all these you have you have so many green things here. I don't really know what those are living in Phoenix And I have to keep watching because someday the front air conditioner on my unit will be the casualty of my not watching and That's gonna be a horrible sound when it takes place.
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I can assure you but it's a good to be with you I'm on my way to Something called g3 the conference in Atlanta.
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I actually am supposed to be speaking tomorrow night So tomorrow is going to be an early morning and please pray that I don't have any issues between here and there it's a pretty long pretty long drive and but on Friday I have the assignment of being the warm -up
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For two guys, you've probably never heard of before. He'd be preaching after me some guy named
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Vodie Balcom another guy named Paul washer so I'm not really sure who they are, but Yeah, it's going to be a great time
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Hopefully there at g3 and then I've got a number of stops on the way back where I'm gonna be speaking and things like that So we're just sort of getting used to this.
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I'm sort of getting used to it and when I Have been up all day and driving. I generally don't throw on the bowtie and things like that.
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Hope you don't mind because when you have to hook up power cords and water lines and Sewer lines and things like that.
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It's just sort of like yeah, okay Well, we'll be casual for us the day after after we do all of that, but it is good to be with you
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We have two topics. We're going to be covering today, and it was interesting I just happen to notice even though I'm pretty much focused on the road and Traffic and things like that.
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You have to be By the way, if you drive like a little Prius or something, could
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I give you a piece of advice? The reason that those of us who are driving something that's over 40 feet long and in my case between seven 16 and 18 thousand pounds the reason there's space between me and the next vehicle in my lane is because I need that space to stop and So when you take your
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Prius and zip in front of me and slam on the brakes, I will turn you into a Ritz cracker Really fast it's amazing what what people do in those situations just a little common sense type thing goes on there
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But I was driving into Jonesboro, and I looked over to my right and what to my wondering eyes did appear
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Then an Islamic Center Yes a a mosque Have have any of you visited that mosque for example y 'all you have a couple of you have okay?
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and Very nicely built there. It's sort of small one. It's not real big but There's one there and I passed a
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Newman Center for the Roman Catholic Church on the way in as well. So obviously there are
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Issues to be addressed not so much with the Newman Center on this subject though I would raise some issues concerning Mary on some some aspects of things, but especially with the the
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Islamic Center there Is a real need for Christians who know what they believe why they believe and are passionate about What they believe to be able to interact with those folks.
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I have a special Love in my heart, of course for the Muslim people having had the opportunity of engaging in debates with them literally all over the world
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Those were those were that those were the before corona days Were in 2019
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I flew a hundred and sixty -five thousand miles and taught in South Africa Samara, Russia Melbourne Australia spent two months in London And we'll probably never get to do any of that ever again to be honest with you
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But in those days I got the debate in mosques in South Africa and I love the
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Muslim people and they need Christians who know what they believe and Why they believe it and are passionate about those things and can answer sometimes very challenging questions as well and so let's use that as sort of the example to to Walk us into our topic
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It does seem to me that most evangelicals in the West are
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Trinitarians of tradition, but not so much of passion
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If any of you have seen my book The Forgotten Trinity, you know that I began that book by telling a story and by raising the phrase
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I Love the Trinity and asking the question. When did you last hear anyone say I love the
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Trinity you hear people saying I love Jesus I love prophecy. I love worship.
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I love eschatology You hear all that kind of stuff, but when do you ever hear anyone saying
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I love the Trinity and I think the primary reason for that is that for most of us it is somewhat of a mystery and We feel uncomfortable with it
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We recognize You know if I write now, for example I've taught systematic theology and seminary many times and if if I write now said
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I'm going To pick one of you out and I'm going to ask you three questions
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About the doctrine of the Trinity and I started looking around What's going to happen is a number of you are all sudden going to discover that your left big toe is fascinating You'd never noticed how fascinating that was, right?
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because most of us don't want to be put in that position and One of the problems
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I think is most pastors don't want to be put in that position either and One thing
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I learned a long time ago My church history professor put it this way That which is a mist in the pulpit is a fog in the pew so if the person up here isn't overly clear about a
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Certain thing it's going to be even less clear in the pew because they are going to struggle to be able to express themselves
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They may be inconsistent and how they express themselves on these certain beliefs. And so if many of our seminary graduates are not really
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Passionate about and have a clarity of thought Concerning the doctrine of the Trinity if it's just something that's out there.
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It's historical. Well, it is historical. It's major part of the history of the church but if it's just out there if it's just in our systematic theologies and Not a part of the everyday
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Experience of a Christian let's put it this way How many of us could honestly admit that we could easily go through an entire day of our life?
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Without ever contemplating the Trinity that shouldn't be the case because for example when you pray
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Who are you praying to? Why do you pray in the way that you pray?
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Why is it that Jesus said in John chapter 14 about the time after his ascension back to the father?
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He said if you ask me anything in my name, I will do it Well, how would you ask Jesus something in his name after he's ascended back to the father?
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Well, that's why in first Corinthians Christians are known as those those who epical Oh, they call upon the name of the
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Lord the Lord. There is Jesus They were praying to Christ so how do you do that because Most people simply pray to the father or even worse
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How many times you've heard someone praying Don't want to pick on anybody here But you've heard something like this
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Oh Heavenly father we thank you for giving us this day to gather together and Oh heavenly father
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We thank you for coming and dying for us and no one even twitches
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The father didn't die for us The spirit didn't die for us it was the son who became incarnate and So I have often heard people make
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Trinitarian errors in prayer which indicates a level of confusion on their part as to What role the divine persons have had in the gospel itself?
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I think that impacts our worship I think it impacts our hymnology the worship of the church together
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Now there are some groups that are Very explicitly Trinitarian and most their people really do know the doctrine fairly.
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Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of their theology is going to be
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Balanced and and and and sound but there are certain groups that have a good strong emphasis in those areas and we can be thankful for that but We as believers
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Should recognize that historically the church has said this is the defining doctrine of the faith.
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I Mean at least up until the last few years, I suppose It's been pretty obvious that we can't have fellowship
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With for example Jehovah's Witnesses not that they were looking to have fellowship with us in the first place But we why couldn't why couldn't we have fellowship with Jehovah's Witnesses they think the
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Bible's the Word of God yeah, they've got a weird translation of it, but And yeah, they're constantly trying to convert us and wake us up on Saturday mornings and make us angry with them and things like that but why can't we have fellowship with Jehovah's Witnesses well because they believe
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Jesus is Michael the Archangel and That the Holy Spirit is an impersonal active force similar to the electricity that is
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Lighting these blinding lights that are so wonderful over on the sides of the room He's not a person.
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He's an it And so they deny the doctrine of the Trinity So we can't have fellowship with them but how can that be when most of our fellowship doesn't actually involve us really understanding what the doctrine of Trinity is in the first place and Then those
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Mormon missionaries aren't they some of the nicest young men you've ever seen I mean they are so clean -cut and they're in good shape too.
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They're riding a bike everywhere and You know, they they want to talk about families and and they wear white shirts and it's just it's just great and wonderful but we don't have fellowship with them either because they believe they can become
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God's and That God the Father was once a man lived on another planet And that his one of his first his firstborn spirit child with one of his many wives was
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Jesus And then another one of his spirit children was Lucifer and we're all his spirit children that lived on another planet
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The circle is a star named Kolob and we go. Yeah. No can't do that Okay so if it is
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Central to our Experience central to our faith then shouldn't it be something that we spend?
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more or less time understanding and studying then say
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Oh Knowing what's going on in the current popular whatever the popular
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TV series are right now, which I will have to admit I don't have a clue. I don't have any earthly idea.
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What is popular on television these days, but how many Christians know more about that than they do the
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Doctrine of the Trinity and Does that make any sense and when we then tell people outside the
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Christian faith? about what we believe and they know and can tell by the
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Well, look when when you try to explain something to someone You know, my my daughter is grand schooling my grand homeschooling my grandkids and I think it's wonderful and awesome and they're great kids and She's doing a great job, but When you're when you're a homeschooler there are certain subjects to do real well in and then there are those subjects you didn't do all that well in in school either and So you're much more dependent upon The textbook and your answers aren't so quick and they aren't so clear and you really can't give good
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Illustrations and things like that Can people tell that when we answer questions?
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About the doctrine the Trinity that we're struggling that we're having to really put a lot of thought into it and That would tell them we may say it's central, but we're not living as if it is
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Now I don't have time in the amount of time that we have together in this hour hour 15 something like that to Do a full -orbed
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Seminar on the doctrine of the Trinity I've done that many times.
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There's stuff like that online and things like that, but what I would like to do is look at what is key in defining the doctrine of the
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Trinity and Hopefully lay a foundation for you clarify some of the key issues and Also make an appeal
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I Am I'm a bit concerned about some of the stuff going on in the church today and even in what
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I would consider to be sound circles of Theological discourse and discussion in regards to this doctrine of the
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Trinity When I wrote the Forgotten Trinity and Came out I think in 1998
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How many of you were not around in? 1998 anybody here that wasn't around in Well, there you go.
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I'm sure you were not around in 1998. That's that's true. That's good So most of you around anyways but it was a while back and I Made the argument that I am a biblical
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Trinitarian and I laid out what that meant and Fundamentally my assertion was if you believe
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Scripture is the sole infallible rule of faith of the church sola scriptura and If you believe that you have to believe all of Scripture Toto scriptura
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Then the Bible teaches Three foundational doctrines that if you believe all three of them require you to believe it to be a
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Trinitarian There are some today who would find the foundation of the doctrine of Trinity in some rather abstract philosophical speculations and Would Consider my approach to be rather naive to be perfectly honest with you but the fact the matter is
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I can't see any other foundation for believing in the doctrine of Trinity and in fact I Would say one of the reasons that Liberal denominations or leftist denominations, whatever you want to call them.
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They're denominations that eventually die For example that you know
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All the mainline denominations that are just disappearing into the mists of history right now I just saw an article just this morning that the
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United Church of Christ just sold its headquarters building where over 300 people used to work and have moved into something like the size of a house and that the current collapsing rate
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They will be completely they used to have over 2 million members. They will they will disappear into history
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By 2045 there won't be anybody left There's a reason for that. They abandon any even semblance of belief in the
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Bible is Word of God they they basically abandon any semblance of belief in the supernatural and If you do not believe that this is a consistent revelation from God there is no reason to believe in the doctrine of Trinity It's none
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Why in the world would you believe that God is? One being and three persons. Why would you make that distinction?
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Why would you distinguish between the father sons? Just giving illustration. I attended a debate and I wasn't actually debating which is very unusual for me to defend a debate when
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I'm not debating But I attended a debate about five six years ago It was on subject of homosexuality, but in the process the the leftist that was
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Pushing the idea of becoming accepting of the LGBTQ movement in the in the church made the argument that we've already learned to think past and believe past what
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Paul a first century Jew believed and we need to do the same thing to recognize that we need to be able to to believe differently than Jesus a first century
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Jew believe and I This professor at the time was an adjunct for fuller theological seminary
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So I went up to him during the break, and I I said did I hear you correctly when you said that he said yeah?
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I said so you don't you don't believe for example the the Nicene confession of faith in Christ, and he said
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Do you really think the Apostles thought Jesus was God? this is this is a professor in a theological seminary and Once you once you abandon this as your foundation and once you abandon the commitment to believe
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To believe this and to believe all of it sola scriptura and tota scriptura There's no reason to believe in the doctrine of Trinity I mean you can say well traditionally this group said that and this group said that and blah blah blah
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But that's all it is it cannot have any kind of authority in your life at all and If you just in passing would like to make a obvious connection
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Between what we're talking about now, and what's going on in our society right now and for some of us
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It's sort of like we're talking about what sounds like an abstract theological concept over here but there are people in my country right now who are
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Hoping to be able to make it so that if I don't Say whatever they want me to say and do whatever they want me to do and think like they want me to think
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That there's gonna be a nice Uncomfortable gulag to stick me in very soon and sort of so we sort of go
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What's more important? You know I should be thinking about this stuff over here and not this abstract theological stuff over there
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Well, let me just point something out to you Well the primary responses that Christian people are offering
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To the rise of totalitarianism in our day is The words that we all know from Matthew chapter 28
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We all know the Great Commission Therefore go make disciples of all nations baptizing them name the
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Father Son Holy Spirit teaching them to observe Everything I've commanded you and long with you always even at the end of the age
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But there's a therefore there and the previous verse says what? All authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth
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Jesus said all authority been given to him in heaven and on earth Now if Jesus was just simply a man
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Those would be insane words They would be frightening words you don't give all authority to anyone other than someone who can bear that authority appropriately and so when
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When Christians say we are to live our lives in light of the Lordship of Christ we are making claims about this one
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We're not only claiming. He rose from the dead. We're also claiming that he was the eternal logos who took on human flesh
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He is he is the Son of God incarnate He's the maker of all things when I talk to my
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Muslim friends down the road there. I Say to them I Say you can't have a
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Jesus. Who's just simply a prophet a mere result as the Quran says The Jesus of the
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New Testament gave you every breath of your mouth and every beat of your heart you can't be neutral toward him and So what we believe about Jesus is intimately connected to what we believe about the doctrine of the
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Trinity And what we're saying to the world is there is a higher authority than any Congress than any president than any premier than any prime minister and in fact every member of every
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Congress Including that one Democrat who said that the existence of God is not relevant to this
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Congress Just about what about a year ago. He said that Boy, those are words.
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I would not want to take into heaven an answer for well Actually wouldn't be having you been answering it for but to in the judgment of it to answer for But every member of every
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Congress every premier every prime minister every president Will someday stand before the one who rose from the dead?
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to be judged the deeds done the body and So the doctrine of the Trinity is very much connected to any
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Decisions that we are making today as to how we are to respond to individuals who are attempting to establish a secular totalitarian state wherein everybody gets to think what they tell them to think and the
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Christian says that the Christian says Someday there will be a totalitarian state.
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What did what did Paul say to the Philippians? That after the resurrection of Jesus God highly exalted him and gave him the name which is above with every name that his name of Jesus What every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is courteous.
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He is Lord to the glory of God the Father That is the
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Christian message and we should not shirk back from that That is not established by military force, however
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To recognize who Jesus is at this point in time is the work of the
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Holy Spirit in a person's heart and life and Only when judgment takes place is there a mighty display of his power
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So that connection made and that short sermon delivered That connection made that short sermon delivered
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Doctrine of the Trinity I put and he you guys good back there with the with the thing there
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I Grabbed just four little slides from my normal presentation to sort of give you a
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Framework to utilize and to and to function from if you want to take notes or stuff like that like I said, there's a there's a
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Entire presentation we could do here, but I want to give you the framework of the basics as to how to Understand the there we go the doctrine the
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Trinity. This has helped a lot of folks I hope it helps you and I hope it makes it easier for you to communicate when you're talking with your your friends or or If you happen to go by the mosque or whatever if the are the
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Jehovah's Witnesses even going door -to -door anymore I have not seen them. You still got some around here.
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Okay. All right In Arizona, I honestly I know the
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Mormons went into hiding in March of 2020 and no one's seen them since I've jokingly said that they're going to finally come out of their basements and they are gonna be so pasty white is not even
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Talk about white and delights them. They will be white and delights them at that point in time No, really. I don't know what's going on with the
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Mormons. They shut down their temples They they they haven't had an in -person general conference since October of 2019
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It's it's amazing. There's going to be a huge massive splintering of Mormonism eventually
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Ear that or it's just gonna whimper and die one of the two, but anyway when talking with all those folks, it's
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Extremely helpful to recognize that there are three foundational truths that are biblical teachings
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That give us the doctrines of Trinity and once you know these biblical truths
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These three foundations then when you're talking with someone and you hear their objections or their misunderstandings or whatever else it might be
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You're able to focus in on what's really important and you're also able to take them to the key
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Text let the Word of God testify concerning its truthfulness I think a lot of folks who talk about the
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Trinity someone has an objection and we just start becoming all of a sudden philosophers There's nothing wrong with a philosophy that recognizes
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Christ as the center of philosophy, which most philosophers will not but if this is a
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Biblical doctrine if it's what this presents and by the way if you think this is inspired and consistent enough
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To give you a doctrine like the Trinity you are today in the minority in what calls itself what calls itself
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Christianity you go to most seminaries and Bible colleges maybe not necessarily around here, but I'm sure plenty of them you can find around here, too and Their their doctrine of the inspiration of Scripture will not be sufficiently high to believe that this is consistent enough to reveal something like this
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That's a sad commentary, but it helps you to explain How people end up where they end up so the first foundation the
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Bedrock of the doctrine the Trinity what is Trinity try unity is?
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That unity that is monotheism. There is only one true
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God now You and I may just sort of assume that we've just grown up with that right
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But in the history of mankind that was a radical idea and especially in the ancient
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Near East when when Israel would say Yahweh created
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The heavens and the earth That was considered incredibly offensive because what you're saying is
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Your God didn't and in fact your God doesn't even exist Everybody back, then every nation had its own gods and they they had they ruled within the borders of that particular nation that particular country and That's how you got along with everybody you worship your
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God will worship our God. It's cool and If you went to war then if you could steal their
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God hey now you win because their God can't do anything about it anyways So when when
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Israel comes along and says Yahweh made the heavens and the earth even even Great nations great empires like the
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Babylonians their gods came out of the creation The creation pre -existed them and gave rise to them
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So when you have the constant testimony of from Genesis Through Malachi or as the
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Jews would have said Genesis through second Chronicles their order of canonicity is different than ours That Yahweh is the maker of all things
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That he is the only true God he knows of no other gods all the gods of the nations are idols
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Those were incredibly offensive words to the people around them, but Everybody knows how a
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Jewish person would identify themselves right? You know, you know, what would identify a Jewish person in days of Jesus or before that was you said the
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Shema You would each day you would pray the Shema Shema means here in Hebrew So Shema Israel Yahweh Eloheinu Yahweh your
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God Here Oh Israel Yahweh is our God Yahweh is one and that's how they were identified that was their profession of faith and That was a profession of faith.
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That was very Offensive to the people around them. Most of us would go
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Yeah I know the Bible teaches only one true God and because we assume it and unless you've Spent time witnessing the
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Mormons who don't believe there's only one true God You might struggle to find all the passages in Scripture that say it, but I would just suggest to you if you want to Read and contemplate this particular truth
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Go to what's called the trial of the false gods in Isaiah 40 through 48 chapters 40 to 48 and there
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Yahweh places the idols of the people on trial and in the process reveals so much about himself and unique attributes of his divine being by demonstrating that the gods of the peoples are just idols and Interestingly enough one of the primary arguments that that section gives is the true
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God knows the future The idols cannot tell you the future, but the true
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God knows the future because he's the creator of all things So Monotheism the fact that there is only one true
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God and that does not change in the New Testament We don't have one
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God in the Old Testament one in the New Testament if you want to see especially how this is just just For a second look at 1st
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Corinthians chapter 8 with me 1st Corinthians chapter 8 if you've not seen this before and I get to show it to you first well great then you will always thank me for this, but 1st
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Corinthians chapter 8 remember. I just quoted to you the Shema and that's what defined the
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Jewish people but in 1st Corinthians chapter 8 Paul's talking about things sacrificed to idols because back in that day if you wanted to if you want to go pick up a pound of beef to make dinner tonight you'd go to the meat market and You knew if you were in some place like like Corinth Every bit of that meat in the meat market had been offered in one of the pagan temples to one of the gods so it had been put on the altar and Sacrifice had been made and then it's taken out the back door and sent to the meat market and sold and so there were some
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Christians who knew this and their consciences were troubled by this and So Paul's discussing this in 1st
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Corinthians chapter 8 and he says you know there's no such thing as an isle the world There's no God But one there are there are so called gods whether in heaven or earth as there are many gods and many lords and so there are all sorts of Deities that people will identify
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If you were in Corinth, there was a deity on almost a temple to the deity on almost every corner
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But then he says in verse 6 yet for us there is but one God the Father From whom are all things and we exist for him and one
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Lord Jesus Christ by whom are all things and we exist through him now
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I have all sorts of cool graphics I could illustrate this but What Paul does in verse 6 is he takes the
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Shema if you look at verse 6 in Paul's writing in Greek and You look at the
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Shema from the Old Testament in Greek and was called the Greek septuagint the Greek translation the Old Testament Which is what everybody in Corinth would be reading at this point in time and you compare the two of them
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You can see Paul is taking the Shema Where it says one? God Lord is courteous
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Yahweh. He's using all the same language and he's expanding it in light of the incarnation and Here is an early most people believe early
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Christian creed some English translations even put verse 6 in Poetic form to show that that's probably what it is
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But this is an early Christian confession of faith an early Christian creed There is but one
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God the Father from whom are all things and we exist for him notice the creation aspect And one courteous, that's the
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Greek word that translated the name of God Yahweh in the Old Testament Jesus Christ by whom are all things and we exist through him so this doesn't change then there is that you don't have monotheism in the
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Old Testament and Trinitarianism in the New Testament Trinitarianism is a monotheistic belief
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And this is one of the places where our our Muslim friends can be very confused Because it seems like the author of the
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Quran was greatly confused at this very point as well Every time the Quran says do not say three referring to the
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Trinity the next line is there is only one God Allah and So the author of the
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Quran thought that whatever it was we were saying implied polytheism and That simply is not the case if you understand the doctrine the
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Trinity and it does not seem that he did So monotheism is the foundation has to be rock -solid at the bottom
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The second foundation is where most of us struggle, so let me come back to it because the third foundation we sort of understand and that is the co equality and co eternality of The person so in other words if you've ever
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Tried to demonstrate the deity of Christ the places where Jesus is called God where he's described as being the creator being eternal things like that Discuss the person of the
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Holy Spirit and You've gone to Acts 5 you've not lied to God But you've lied to the
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Holy Spirit and and so on so forth you've been defending the third foundation and as the co equality and co eternality of Father Son and Spirit and That's where the deity of Christ arguments come in with the
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Jehovah's Witnesses or or other Unitarian groups and things like that and So it's important to know those things
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But that's the third foundation Where a lot of people struggle is foundation number two the existence of three divine persons, how can you say one in the first foundation and Three in the second foundation and so there are a lot of groups
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They will try to confuse us by saying we are saying 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 3 no We're not well you said 1 in the first you saying 3 in the second and you can't tell us what the difference is well
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But we assert there is a difference. We are saying that there is one being of God and three divine persons that share perfectly that one being well
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How do you distinguish between being in person well we distinguish between being in person every single day
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It's it's a natural part of our language So I don't know if any of you
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Very few of them of you in the room are old enough to remember But back in the 1970s there have been some really
37:19
Dumb things remember mood rings If I remember mood rings that's couple you're going. Yeah, I'm not admitting that no.
37:26
I don't remember mood rings. No we had mood rings and I remember
37:33
I thought I think I was in junior high school when everybody was running around mood rings But right around the same time
37:42
Someone came up with the idea of having pet rocks pet rocks
37:49
Now the nice thing about it was They weren't expensive because they're rather plentiful
37:56
In almost anywhere you live you can find rocks of pretty much any size shape you want paint some eyes and stuff it thankfully didn't last for a long time, but The fact was you could you could take a rock and you could you could spend a lot of time
38:13
Painting it very nicely and making it very Well as attractive as a rock can be
38:18
I suppose, but if you picked up that rock and you swung it at somebody and You hit somebody with it.
38:29
You could go to jail for assault with a deadly weapon, right? Why because the rock has being it exists, and how do
38:36
I know that throw it at my face? And I will know that it exists it can prove it exists however all the painting in the world
38:47
All the the nice stories about how much your pet rock means to you Will never make it personal and how do
38:57
I know that because I could put my pet rock right there And I could go I love you pet rock
39:04
You just mean the world to me And you know what its expression would not change
39:11
It would not care because it's not personal or I could call it every name in the book
39:18
It still wouldn't care It has being but it's not personal we distinguish between the two now my cats
39:29
Have being and in a way they can tell what I'm Angry at them because they just ripped up something.
39:38
I didn't want them to rip up I remember I I still have a couple
39:43
Bibles that I bought When I was younger that my cats got to and all the spines are just those are great for sharpening those claws you know and just all torn up and They knew
39:55
I was not happy with them, but they forgot about that by the next day and They they can't see themselves as part of cat kind for example.
40:06
They cannot recognize their own personhood over against any other cat What beings do we know in Scripture are
40:18
Properly described as personal well God is uses personal pronouns the angels seem to be as well and human beings
40:27
We know that we exist in humankind We can distinguish ourselves from others, so we see the connection.
40:33
We have to all the people as far as our Humanity is concerned, but we also recognize that we are not all other people.
40:40
We are distinguished from all other people and So when we're talking about the doctrine of the
40:46
Trinity we are distinguishing between being and person so Keeping those in mind then when we talk about the three divine persons
40:57
We are saying that we can distinguish between divine persons, and there's two different ways
41:02
We can distinguish between that we can distinguish between them between what they've done In Redemption, so it was the son who became incarnate not the father not the spirit
41:11
It's the spirit who's been sent by the father and the son to indwell the church It's the father who sent the son to be the
41:19
Redeemer and the Savior of Mankind each has taken a different role in what's called the
41:25
Economic Trinity or the the actions of the Trinity in redeeming mankind, but theologians have also said that there are
41:35
Intrinsic differences that distinguish the persons even before creation itself
41:41
Now I'm not going to all that today if you want to read the Forgotten Trinity you can get into a discussion of those things but there are distinctions between father son and spirit, and how they relate to one another and This is where people struggle
41:57
Because have you ever talked to someone who's for example a oneness Pentecostal? Jesus only and They will at least if they're part of the
42:07
UPC I They will believe that Jesus is two persons
42:13
He's both the father and the son the father is the divine aspect of Jesus the son is the human aspect of Jesus Hence the son came into existence at his birth in Bethlehem.
42:23
He's not an eternal person and There's some confusion as to exactly
42:29
How to identify the Holy Spirit? Especially in regards to the resurrection of Christ, but anyway
42:36
This is a form of what's called Modalism Dynamic Monarchian ism. This was an actual error error of the early church in fact by the second century there was a great deal of consternation about this particular teaching, but If you've talked to those types of folks
42:51
You know that they'll point to verses and they'll say well Jesus said if you've seen me you've seen the father
42:58
Jesus said I and the father are one and So there Jesus was identify himself as the father well.
43:04
No he wasn't Even in John 1030 when Jesus said I and the father one the verb there is plural
43:09
I And the father we are one in the context It's one in the salvation of God's people not the same person
43:17
Jesus always distinguished himself from the father He referred to the father and used
43:22
Different personal pronouns one person speaking to another person John chapter 17
43:29
He said father glorify me with the glory which I had in your presence Before the world was that's one person talking to another person.
43:38
There's no question about that and so foundation number two is where There's a lot of confusion in people's prayers
43:49
There's confusion and songs There are well -known singing groups today in contemporary
43:56
Christian music Made up of people who used to be one to spend a castles, and now they now their churches go
44:03
We're not really sure We're not really sure what to believe about that But these are your three foundations and so when you're when someone starts objecting to what you believe
44:16
What your mind should do is immediately go these foundations which one of these foundations is this person confused on have they been misinformed about However, you want whatever the situation is your mind should go to them.
44:30
Let's go to the next next one and When you see a triangle you automatically start thinking of that graphic where you've got
44:38
God in the middle and says is not is not is not is Is is etc.
44:43
Etc. So that's not what this is You already got that one. I don't need to give you that one these are the three doctrines and Monotheism is on the bottom the foundation
44:57
The three divine persons is over there on the left side the equality the persons is on the right side and So if you
45:09
Write this down and put it like that if you cross out monotheism if you deny monotheism if you if you deny there's only one true
45:19
God like the Mormons do and Then you take the other two sides you have three divine persons
45:25
They're equal to one another but you don't have the affirmation of monotheism. What's the result polytheism?
45:31
You're gonna have three gods Maybe more but at least three because if you've got three divine persons and they're equal with one another
45:39
But you don't have the foundation of monotheism. The result is polytheism a belief in more than one
45:46
God So let's go to the next one if you negate the existence of the three divine persons then you have monotheism and Any quality of those persons and the result is modalism or oneness?
46:02
so either you have the idea that Jesus is multiple persons or the more ancient idea that God sort of Behaved in different ways and so he would take different modes of existence
46:17
And so he'd have a mode of existence as a father But then he'd have a mode of existence as a son a mode of existence as a spirit and it's frightening how many?
46:27
Christians default to this by mistake I I've said for decades that I would be concerned to give a test
46:40
To most people attending church is coming Sunday Because a large number of those folks would test positive for oneness
46:52
Not for that other thing but would test positive for oneness and And I Remember I was in a in a church in Florida Was it
47:05
Florida? I think it was anyways, and this is before YouTube and Yes young people there was a world before YouTube it was a dark and lonely place
47:17
Windswept plains nothing to do Dinosaurs walking by outside had to be very quiet when they came by but and before YouTube I Could roleplay with people because who wouldn't who in the world would know who in the world
47:32
I am my picture wouldn't be all over the place that wouldn't be hundreds of debates that I've done wandering around the internet and so It's really fun.
47:41
It was fun to do I can't do it anymore But it was fun to do especially with junior high schoolers
47:48
You know any junior high schoolers Good yes, he's saying yes, no
47:55
Junior high school see you're born. You're human. You're human junior high school backed up the humanity in high school.
48:02
It's just it's just Anyone who works with junior high schoolers God bless you. I mean no purgatory for you so Anyway trying to keep junior high schoolers attention is really difficult to do and So I was in this junior high school class and the youth minister was in there and the youth minister introduced me as elder somebody from the local
48:27
Kingdom Hall one of Jehovah's Witnesses and so I'd get up there, and I would start speaking and and they're freaking out of course and Honestly with this poor youth minister guy
48:40
I Had him spouting oneness heresy within about 34 seconds
48:46
Was that easy to do? Well, you know Jesus said he you know he would see me as seen the father right so so Jesus and a father one person well
48:57
Yeah, I guess well, then how can this be true and just tied the guy up in a knot so fast and the kids are just like Absolutely they don't have any phones to be looking at back then so they are fascinated by this, but they're also freaking out
49:15
And then you know halfway through you stop and tell them what's really going on and they go oh And then you lose their attention for the rest of the time, but at least you tried
49:22
So that's that's the best you can do, but I think Most I would
49:28
I would estimate minimally 70 % of people attending conservative
49:35
Baptist churches across the United States would Fail a quiz and fall into this camp not because they have a conviction of it
49:46
But they just don't know how to distinguish being in person. It's that second foundation. That's the issue
49:51
I Really think that would happen so the last one then obviously if you deny the equality the persons you have monotheism
49:59
You have three divine persons, and so what you have to do is you have to subordinate? Because you don't have equality you have to subordinate one to the other and so Subordination ism the denial of full deity of Christ People saying that Jesus is a great messenger.
50:16
Whatever else it might be Unitarianism if you want to see how this sort of fleshes out in one example
50:25
The debate that Michael Brown and I did against two Unitarians Anthony buzzard and Joseph good on the
50:32
Jewish voice broadcast 2011 I think I think it was 10 years ago May have an even 2010.
50:39
I don't remember now, but it's on YouTube Three three some odd hours long, and you can see how that works so what this triangle allows you to do is to when you when you
50:52
Hear where the objection is you can identify? what
50:58
Section of biblical verses that you've already memorized because we're going to memorize lots of verses to be prepared right right which
51:07
Testimony of Scripture you need to be moving to to help them to understand what their error is
51:13
Or it may not even be people that are just have objections it may be something your Bible say class It just doesn't understand they've got some bad information.
51:20
They've heard some bad preaching They've listened to Phillips Craig and Dean that was the music group. I was talking about beautiful music, but they're not
51:27
Trinitarians And so they end up with some level of confusion, and you can help them
51:33
You're called to be able to help them. It's extremely important I think for you to be able to assist them and to help them
51:41
But it also is so vitally important. I think for you for us in the church when we worship
51:50
We need to have the proper biblical categories for that worship to be pleasing to God and for us to recognize
52:01
What our God has done in our own redemption the Trinity is Central to the gospel the gospel is a trinitarian belief
52:11
When you don't have the doctrine of the Trinity you're going to end up with a false gospel. What do I mean by that?
52:17
Any text where you start working through? What is being said
52:23
Ephesians chapter 1? Takes us all the way back into history blessed be the
52:30
God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and all these spiritual blessings that are then listed as coming from the decree of the
52:39
Heavenly Father and What is the only way in which they are found? Ten times in 13 verses
52:46
Paul says in him in Christ in the beloved one. They are uniquely in Christ They are the blessings that flow from the decree of the
52:56
Father they come into our possession only as we are in Christ as we are in him and Then how does it end in verse 14?
53:07
And how do we know all these things we have the Arabon the down payment in our own spirit?
53:13
And who is the Arabon the Holy Spirit of God? that makes us to understand all these things that seals us and That directs us in our worship
53:25
It's Trinitarian think about what Ephesians 1 would actually be about if you're one of Jehovah's Witnesses first of all, they don't
53:35
Joe's witnesses don't believe that I Fact I remember the first time I was talking to Jehovah's Witness and found out that they are basically open theists
53:43
Now, you know what an open theist is an open theist, but does not believe that God has exhausted knowledge of future events
53:52
Most forms of open theism would say he doesn't have exhaustive knowledge of future events Because he cannot know what free creatures will do
54:01
So you can surprise God He may know that you know
54:08
Went out with the guys to grab a bite of lunch when I got here I Am one I am one of those speakers that is extremely demanding
54:19
You know because I know some speakers When they come into a church They have to have a hotel room at a certain temperature and there has to be
54:26
These things in a basket waiting for them when they get there and all that neat kind Wonderful stuff my my hotel rooms parked right out here.
54:35
You want you passed it when you came in and We went to Arby's.
54:41
Yeah, I Saw Arby's on the way in I said that would be good. That'd be quick.
54:46
It's safe I I love Arby's, but you know what there are a couple of things at Arby's that I really like Their their chicken fingers ain't bad
54:58
They're not as good as canes though, and I'm sorry you guys got Zaxby's down here Can't touch canes with a 10 -foot pole no no no we can get we can get argument going here because all you chick -fil -a people
55:10
Go well, what about chick -fil -a? Well, let's not go there right now shall we? But they've got chicken fingers
55:17
And they've got the regular roast beef sandwich And they've got a beef and cheddar and they've got a number of of different sandwiches you can get at Arby's Now normally
55:26
I'd get the regular, but I may have surprised God today if you're an open theist Because I got a beef and cheddar instead now
55:37
The open theist is doing that for other reasons the open theist is doing that so that man can have an autonomous will there's no
55:46
Doctrine of election and and all the rest of this kind of stuff, but the price is huge That God created, but he didn't know how it was all gonna turn out at the end
55:53
And he's doing the best he can but there has been some detours along the way shall we say some you know
56:00
World Wars and things like that atomic bombs and whatever But he can't be really be blamed for that because it's it.
56:07
He didn't know that that was all gonna be here, so Leaving open theism you know off to the side
56:16
Jehovah's Witnesses Sort of embraced that idea and so in in talking with them
56:25
What I found and this is this is true of many different groups, what's one of the best ways?
56:32
Not only for us to understand the doctrine of the Trinity, but to explain to somebody else Tell you a story
56:39
Um Again before YouTube I got to meet with more Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses once YouTube came along then that became more difficult to do but I was asked to come over and meet with three elders of a
56:54
Jehovah's Witness congregation at a Christian's home and I was straight up front with them when
56:59
I met them. I I teach at the time I was scholar residents at Grand Canyon University, and I teach apologetics and in fact
57:06
I lecture people about what you believe Now some Jehovah's Witnesses.
57:12
They're straight out the door as soon as you say that Some of them others because these were elders so they they felt a little bit more comfortable others find that fascinating and So what
57:26
I said to them I said in fact could I sort of run through what you believe for you? Just to give you an idea whether I'm you know am
57:33
I being accurate No one had ever offered to do that for them before so I ran through using their own language and Gave them the most accurate representation of what they believe
57:43
I possibly could and they just sat there. They're like and one of them said You could have done that in a
57:50
Kingdom Hall and nobody would have Been the wiser Well, I try to be accurate in my understanding of what you're saying now.
57:58
What have I done? I've purchased the opportunity to have a few minutes of their attention now
58:04
I said And they said and and you're a trinitarian And I said yes, and let me explain why can
58:11
I explain why to you and since I had accurately represented them? They said yes, and so what
58:19
I demonstrated to them Really left them speechless, and this is they're not gonna
58:26
They're almost never going to take literature from you. You've got to show it to them in their own Bible the key way to To Help a
58:36
Jehovah's Witness see the truth is not to argue with him about John 1 1 whether it's
58:42
God or a God a Jehovah's Witness can argue John 1 1 with you in a comatose state. They don't even have to be conscious
58:49
You're not getting them to think about anything don't even bother It's not that it's not an important text
58:54
It's not that there isn't a way of demonstrating what it's supposed to teach the point is that in most situations
59:01
We don't have time to dig that deeply and So what I did is I said well as you know the name of God in The Old Testament is
59:11
Yahweh or as you pronounce it Jehovah in this instance. I didn't argue about the pronunciation There wasn't any reason to do it.
59:18
I used to went with Jehovah that's not how it was pronounced, but anyway and I said
59:26
That names used thousands of times in the Old Testament a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses Don't even realize that Christians know these types of things
59:34
And I said what's fascinating is we come into the New Testament We know that the father is identified as Jehovah, and you would agree with that and they said yes for example
59:46
Who was it that laid our sins upon the Messiah in Isaiah 53 it was Jehovah Jehovah has laid our sins upon the
59:53
Messiah I? said but where we disagree is the
01:00:00
New Testament writers frequently identified Jesus as Jehovah now for a
01:00:07
Jehovah's Witness if Jesus is Jehovah, that's the end of the debate You can talk about God and a
01:00:14
God until the cows come home if Jesus is Jehovah. They are wrong it's all there is to it and So they're very interested in where this would be and so I took them and It's it's important you do this in the right order
01:00:34
Yeah, I've got just about enough time to do this. It's important you do this in the right order I Took them to Psalm 102 25 to 27 and in Psalm 102 25 27 in their translation
01:00:49
You can you can back it up. It's talking about Jehovah because their translation uses the name Jehovah it's all all through the
01:00:56
Old Testament even in the New Testament and Their Jehovah is described as the one who of old made all things
01:01:05
But they will wear out you never change you will change them like a garment But you yourself never change your years never end.
01:01:11
It's this whole description of what's called the immutability the Unchangeableness of Jehovah, and so I asked him
01:01:21
I said okay here in Psalm 102 Jehovah is being described as unchanging
01:01:30
Would you agree with me that only Jehovah is unchanging? Well? Yeah, of course. He's the
01:01:35
Creator Exactly keep your finger in there and turn with me to Hebrews chapter 1 and I could have started earlier in Hebrews chapter 1 and we could end up having arguments about some mistranslations
01:01:49
They have in their version and not worth doing it There are a number of references the deity of Christ in Hebrews chapter 1, but if you go to verse 10
01:02:00
There the author Quotes and I backed them up a little bit and even their own translation
01:02:06
But of the Sun he says and then there's a quote and and then this quote, so it's about the
01:02:13
Sun Even their own translation says it and in fact I'm not sure if they've removed this they came up with a new edition the
01:02:20
NWT just a few years ago And I I haven't looked this up yet. I need to I Have a new a new one, but in those days anyways there was a cross -reference
01:02:30
In the center column that told people where verses 10 through 12 was being quoted from it at Psalm 102 25 27 the very same text that's about Jehovah being
01:02:41
Unchanging and eternal is applied by the author of Hebrews to the
01:02:46
Sun in Hebrews chapter 1 verses 10 through 12 and since they already read
01:02:54
The psalm passage it's identical in Hebrews. There's no way to avoid it
01:03:01
Now here is a just a very practical little thing to remember if you ever get yourself in this situation
01:03:09
Now the temptation hits you Okay, I've got him So I'm gonna get out my theological sword, and I'm gonna run through Tell me about that.
01:03:22
Mr. Jehovah's Witness, and here's the problem. They'll come up with an answer It may be the craziest dumbest thing they've ever said in their lives
01:03:30
But they'll go their grave defending it because you force them to You have to be very careful at this point
01:03:38
You've just presented something to them that if they will have the time and if there's another another
01:03:43
Jehovah's Witness with them They cannot even make it that they cannot give any indication
01:03:49
They're even hearing what you're saying because they're scared of what that other person could do So you've got to give them the freedom
01:03:58
To think about these things at another point in time when they're not under that pressure if you really want to help them the most
01:04:06
So here's what you do You say now if you've never seen that before it would be unfair of me to ask you to give a response to that So now you've taken the pressure off They're not going to forget it because they don't know how to answer it.
01:04:19
They've never seen that before So you've taken the pressure off and then what you do is Take advantage of having taken the pressure off and go, but could
01:04:28
I show you another one? I've never had a witness say no Because I took the pressure off them.
01:04:34
I didn't make them answer the first one and So now I've bought myself a few more minutes to give them a second one and the second one
01:04:44
I do is I go to John chapter 12 and This at the end of Jesus ministry
01:04:51
John's quoting from number of passages wrapping things up in regards to God's judgment upon Israel and He quotes from Isaiah 6 and I remember what
01:04:59
Isaiah 6 is. It's Isaiah's temple vision I saw the Lord lofty lifted up sitting sitting in his temple and and so on so forth and it's also where Isaiah is commissioned to be a prophet and so When you read
01:05:17
John 12 All of a sudden there's this verse on 1241 he said these things
01:05:25
Isaiah said these things Because he saw his glory and he spoke about him and Then it goes on continue to talk about Jesus.
01:05:35
Jesus is the only person in the context John says Isaiah saw
01:05:41
Jesus his glory Now, what did he had just quoted? He just quoted from Isaiah 6 10.
01:05:47
Who did Isaiah see in Isaiah 6? He saw Yahweh Jehovah sitting upon his throne
01:05:54
So if you ask Isaiah Isaiah, who did you see I saw Jehovah John who did
01:06:00
Isaiah see he saw Jesus most of us just Fly right over it.
01:06:06
Don't even notice it, but it's actually stronger than just that So how many in here have heard my presentation on this and you already know why it's stronger than that one person
01:06:20
You want to come up and explain? Nope. He says no, I'll leave it to you. I need more practice, right? Yeah, I need more practice
01:06:28
It's actually even stronger than What I just presented to you now, I didn't tell them this part.
01:06:35
Okay? So you don't have to if it's goes beyond where you want to go, but this is just for your benefit
01:06:41
Remember it says he saw his glory and he spoke about him. I remember I Was writing the
01:06:49
Forgotten Trinity, so this would be in the late 90s and I was responding to a really good
01:06:54
Jehovah's Witness who was trying to find a way around all this stuff and That's when I looked at again the
01:07:00
Greek Septuagint the Greek Septuagint the Greek translation The Old Testament was the Bible of the early church. That was the language that everyone spoke in the
01:07:07
Roman Empire at this time and So the Greek Septuagint had been translated about 200 years before Christ At least 85 to 95 percent of the quotations from the
01:07:19
Old Testament in the New Testament are from the Septuagint they're not from the Hebrew and so it was the
01:07:26
Bible of the early church and John is writing to primarily
01:07:32
Greek speaking individuals and So if you go back in the
01:07:39
Septuagint to Isaiah chapter 6 There's a fascinating textual difference between the
01:07:46
Hebrew and Greek I Remember the first time I saw it you may have memorized it from the
01:07:52
Hebrew translation and It says I saw the Lord laughing lifted up and what?
01:07:58
The train of his robe was filling the temple remember that the train of his robe was filling the temple
01:08:05
That's not what the Septuagint says his glory
01:08:11
Filled the temple is what the Septuagint says his glory the very same
01:08:18
Greek word John uses in John 12 41 When he says
01:08:23
Isaiah saw Jesus's glory So anybody with a
01:08:28
Septuagint that looks up the quotations that John has and John's been giving Knows exactly what he's saying
01:08:35
John is identifying Jesus as Jehovah the one seen by Isaiah So I presented those two the
01:08:47
Hebrews 1 psalm 102 John 12 Isaiah 6 to these three elders and again, they had never seen it and So what
01:08:57
I did then is make application. I said so What we see in the New Testament then is we have three persons
01:09:05
Who are distinguished from one another and? You would agree with me that they are distinguished fact you don't even believe the third person is a person
01:09:13
You don't believe that the Holy Spirit is a person But they are distinguished from one another and yet the
01:09:20
New Testament writers identify each one with one divine name What's the doctrine the
01:09:25
Trinity one being of God shared by three persons in the New Testament you have the name
01:09:31
Jehovah? shared by three persons That's why I'm a Trinitarian they had never heard it never heard it and So you want to present that kind of a argument?
01:09:46
Because they I've never had a Jehovah's Witness walk out of the house leaving their Bible behind they're not gonna take literature from you, but you show it to them in their scriptures and they're gonna be taking that with them and It's going to gnaw upon them and what you do is you pray that God by his spirit will help them to remember and to understand and Yes, that can be the beginning point
01:10:16
Those folks especially need to run into Christians who know what they believe and can show people what they believe in the scriptures
01:10:24
In the scriptures, and that's one way of doing it, but also helps us to understand that Identification of Jesus as Yahweh father son
01:10:34
Spirits that what's the spirit very the very phrase spirit of the Lord in the Old Testament is spirit of Yahweh and that's how
01:10:43
Yahweh speaks is by his spirit and so There are so many other.
01:10:51
I mean we could obviously spend a great great great great deal of time Looking at all the other passages that demand of us
01:11:00
I Believe in the doctrine of Trinity, but now I understand what I what I say when I say I am a biblical Trinitarian if you believe all that this book teaches and You believe it's consistent with itself not a surface level consistency, but a deep consistency from Genesis through Revelation Then you see those three doctrines are taught and you have to come to understand the early church was forced
01:11:25
To make this confession on the basis of what happened in the Incarnation one last thing then we'll wrap up one last thing
01:11:33
Some people ask well, where is the doctrine of the Trinity revealed? People want to have a certain verse.
01:11:39
I remember when I was in high school I was in a Bible study class once and somebody asked well.
01:11:44
Where is the Trinity in the Bible? You know what we all did we turn to the concordance and if you turn to the concordance, you're never going to find the word
01:11:55
Trinity and We were bothered by this We hadn't been properly instructed to understand where the terminology came from and how it developed
01:12:06
We want a chapter on the Trinity because we don't recognize the nature of what scripture is
01:12:14
We don't understand the way in which God has revealed himself, so I am going to show you
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Exactly where the doctrine the Trinity is revealed in the Bible you ready, okay?
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This is right after Malachi, and there's
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Matthew over on that side, so it's right there right there There's where the
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Trinity's room Can you see that you see the Trinity in there? You just gonna smile at me aren't you?
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The the brightly colored gentleman you see the Trinity right and he says he can all right good.
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What do I mean? I just trying to wake people up right toward the end no the
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Trinity is Primarily revealed in the historical reality of the incarnation the life ministry death burial resurrection of Jesus His ascension to heaven and the outpouring of the
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Holy Spirit upon the church Where did all that happen historically? right there every single word
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Written in the Old Testament came before that and every single word of the New Testament is written after that and So what happens in between the testaments is the revelation because it took place in history and So what that means is every writer of the
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New Testament is already a Trinitarian and so they're not going to be
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Stopping and every time they make some reference to the Trinity stopping thing Oh, by the way, you might not understand what that is.
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Let me explain to you what that is we wish they did that but that's that's not how the revelation took place and So think about Peter Peter was an experiential
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Trinitarian He had lived three years with the incarnate son.
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He stood on the Mount of Transfiguration heard the father speaking from heaven He was now indwelt by the Holy Spirit He's an experiential
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Trinitarian and so when Paul can in one sentence talk about the
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Spirit of Christ and then next sentence of the Spirit of God and then the Spirit of the Lord and he just keeps going that way and he doesn't stop and explain things
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There's no reason for it to him to stop and explain things because there's already that understanding between himself and his audience as to what has happened in History in the incarnation of Christ and outpouring of the
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Holy Spirit So that's where it's revealed right between the two and Hence the
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New Testament is a Trinitarian document. That's why Paul can say the
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Corinthians the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God the
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Father and the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all he doesn't stop and go
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Okay, I need to explain to you how I can associate these these three persons together
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So easily because you know if you're not a Trinitarian, and that's pretty weird I mean think about Jehovah's Witnesses Jehovah's Witnesses think that Jesus is
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Michael the Archangel and that the Holy Spirit doesn't exist so Baptizing them in the name of Jehovah Michael the
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Archangel and an impersonal active force The grace of Michael the
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Archangel the love of Jehovah and the fellowship of electricity be with you all Doesn't make any sense does it no and there's all sorts of texts in the
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New Testament. They're just simply Trinitarian that's the only way to understand them Because that was the context out of which they were written
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Wasn't trying to prove it the proof was in the resurrection the proof had already taken place in history
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That's why you don't have a chapter called Trinity chapter or something along those lines because that's how
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God has chosen to reveal himself So I hope that at least some of these considerations have been helpful to you and I hope that you see that The doctrine the
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Trinity should be something we do not fear. It should be something that we love Because it holds everything else together
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It's central to how we worship. It's central to how we pray. It's central to how we evangelize how we understand the entirety of God's revelation in history.
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I Hope that's been helpful to you. Let's pray. What do you have my father? We do thank you for this opportunity to gather together even in this midweek period
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To consider your truth. I thankful I'm thankful for those who have come out this day I pray that you would bless them and indeed father.
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I pray that they would be given opportunities to Speak these truths to others that you would give them a desire to do so and that you would bring to their mind
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These realities when they have the opportunity of sharing them with those who bring into their lives
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We thank you for your revelation we thank you for the freedom that we yet have to be able to meet like this and to be able to bless others through The broadcasting of these things across the internet.
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We ask that you would Be with us again this evening and we come together again to talk about the glory of your gospel