Found Faithful Bonus Lesson #1 - The Roles of Men and Women

Redeemer Bible Fellowship

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September 25, 2024

00:19: Ephesians chapter five, beginning in verse 22. Ephesians five, verse 22.
00:28: Husbands, excuse me, wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord, because the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church.
00:36: He is the savior of the body. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives are to submit to their own husbands in everything.
00:46: Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church. And gave himself for her to make her holy, cleansing her with the washing of water by the word.
00:56: He did this to present the church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or anything like that, but holy and blameless.
01:04: In the same way, husbands are to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
01:12: For no one ever hates his own flesh, but provides and cares for it just as Christ does for the church since we are members of his body.
01:21: For this reason, a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.
01:29: This mystery is profound, but I am talking about Christ and the church.
01:35: To sum up, each one of you is to love his wife as himself, and the wife is to respect her husband.
01:44: Let's pray, ask for the Lord's help, and then we will very quickly dive into this study.
01:50: Let's pray together. Well, Heavenly Father, we thank you once again for this gift of the
01:57: Lord's Day. Thank you for the opportunity to be in this day with a time of studying your word.
02:03: Pray that as we think about this subject that is easily confused in our culture, that is easily blind in our culture, pray that the scriptures would give us the clarity that we need regarding this topic.
02:19: Be with us as we study your word, and we ask it in Jesus' name and for his sake, amen. All right, so a little background as to how we have gotten to where we are.
02:29: We are obviously in a series on stewardship in our corporate ministry, and last week we talked about the subject of the stewardship of our homes, particularly focusing in on the subject of marriage.
02:46: You cannot talk about the subject of marriage without talking about the subject of the roles of men and women, because as we just read from Ephesians 5, there is a link between an understanding of the roles of men and women and the subject of marriage.
03:09: And what I realized very quickly was for us to be able to properly get into this topic wasn't gonna happen in the middle of the sermon.
03:18: So I decided, we had just finished a Sunday school class, good time as any to actually take this morning to think about this subject in a bit more detail.
03:30: Now, I am going to have to fly quite literally through this, so no doubt if you have questions, normally
03:38: I'd give time for that this morning, I just don't have that sort of time. So if you do have questions, write them down, come see me,
03:45: I'll be happy to try and work through them as best we can with an open Bible. But as you can see from the title on screen this morning, we are going to do something of a deep dive.
03:54: This is not going to be, I will try to be simple, but there will be points where I'm gonna throw out a lot of terms,
04:00: I'll do my best to explain them, but we have a lot to cover. Now, to help you in that, there are some resources
04:08: I recommend that I think are helpful on this subject. First one
04:15: I wanna recommend is a book called Man and Woman in Christ by Stephen B. Clarke. Man and Woman in Christ by Stephen B.
04:22: Clarke. You can buy it in print. If you wanna save some money, however, that little
04:27: URL at the bottom there, you can actually read the book online and I think you can even download it as a
04:33: PDF for free. So if you wanna save a few dollars, you can read it online.
04:40: This is a really excellent book on this subject of the relationship between men and women in the church.
04:47: Leaves no stone unturned, quite literally. It's a very thorough book. And I would say this is probably the most advanced book on this list, but it is the most helpful as well.
04:57: So it's worth the effort. Man and Woman in Christ by Stephen B. Clarke.
05:05: Another resource that I would recommend if you want something that's a little more introductory, and by that I mean very introductory.
05:14: Men and Women in the Church by Kevin de Young. A short, biblical, practical introduction. Kevin de
05:21: Young has this real gift of taking really complex ideas and making them very simple to understand.
05:27: And he brings that wisdom to this particular topic of men and women in the church.
05:35: I wanna say it's just under 100 pages, which is very small for a book of this subject.
05:41: But very, very, very helpful. Would recommend that as well. We're gonna talk a little bit about evangelical feminism this morning.
05:50: Not a whole lot, but if you want more answers to some of those issues. Wayne Grudem, famous for his systematic theology and other books, has written a book called
06:00: Evangelical Feminism and Biblical Truth in an analysis of more than 100 disputed questions.
06:09: I will say I disagree with his view of the Trinity quite significantly.
06:17: Thankfully, it's not a big part of this book, but he does touch on that. So bear that in mind when you read this book.
06:23: He makes the argument from submission from the Trinity, saying that the Son eternally submits to the
06:29: Father. That's not biblical. The Son submits to the Father in the incarnation.
06:36: That's not a eternal relationship. I would disagree very strongly with Grudem on that subject.
06:42: But this is still a very helpful book. It's thankfully not the main argument he makes. And then finally,
06:49: Women in the Church by Andreas Kostenberger and Tom Schreiner. Very nice German names.
06:57: Kostenberger and Schreiner are two Baptist theologians, and what they did was they did a in -depth study of 1
07:04: Timothy chapter two, verses nine to 15. And I will say about their treatment of this subject, it's again, a very thorough take on a section of scripture.
07:18: There are multiple editions of this book out there. I think they're in the third edition right now. Each of them is different.
07:25: So I would say if you can just get the most recent edition, but there are some valuable things to be found in both editions one and two, which make it worth reading.
07:37: So, Women in the Church, Andreas Kostenberger and Tom Schreiner. All right, enough book recommendations. Here's where we're going this morning in the time that we have.
07:46: Again, you have the outline in front of you. We're gonna start by first of all, surveying evangelical positions.
07:53: So where do Bible -believing evangelicals, I'm not talking about people who are liberal or deny parts of the
07:59: Christian faith, people who believe the Bible and love the word of God, where do they land on this subject of the relationship between men and women?
08:12: We're then going to identify some key questions. So what exactly are the questions that all these positions are trying to answer?
08:20: That'll be part two. Part three, we're going to answer some objections to what I believe is the biblical view. And then number four, we'll take some time to think about implications of our view on this subject.
08:36: So survey of positions, identifying key questions, answering major objections, and then understanding implications.
08:43: So let's start right at the beginning with a survey of the various evangelical positions out there.
08:50: Within evangelicalism, there are four main views about the roles of men and women.
08:58: The first, I think in the notes, I have it as biblical patriarchy or just patriarchy. Now, this word is not popular in our culture.
09:10: Even Christians are kind of squishy when you use this word. Allow me to say this. I told you we're going to do a bit of a deep dive, so for moments in history, how many of you have heard people use the phrase the patriarchy before?
09:27: Do you know where that phrase the patriarchy comes from? Well, no, not the
09:34: English word, just the use of the phrase the patriarchy. Not even just in general, if you don't know,
09:45: I'm going to give you a brief history lesson. In 1970, a American academic called
09:50: Kate Millett wrote a book called Sexual Politics, where she sought to argue that the relationship between men and women is inherently political.
10:00: She was one of the founders of what became known as the second wave of feminism.
10:05: You know the language of first wave, second wave, and third wave feminism. And in that book, she argues that the system that oppresses women and elevates men is known as the patriarchy.
10:22: That's where that phrase entered into first academic discussion, but as is always the case, everything kind of trickles down from the academics to the guy on the street, so to speak.
10:32: And so part of the problem is even believing people can sometimes think, I don't like that word, without realizing that the reason you don't like that word is because that word was basically co -opted and made to mean something that for thousands of years has never meant.
10:51: Now, reacting to that, a movement sprang up within Christianity, which basically said, we need to get back to that.
11:00: The problem was they did, in my opinion, the same thing that the second wave of feminists did.
11:07: Went too far and basically loaded the word with more meaning than I think it biblically should have.
11:14: There is a healthy kind of patriarchy. Let's just start there. In the sense of the word literally means father's ruling.
11:23: Well, we just read it in Ephesians five, the husband is the head of the wife.
11:28: There is a sense in which husbands exercise rule. Now we need to define what that rule is, which we'll actually get to in this study this morning, but in and of itself, that word patriarchy is not a negative thing.
11:40: Unfortunately, it's been co -opted, in my opinion, and filled with a lot of negativity to where for some, the word now means all women are subject to all men, regardless of their relationship, and women should have zero authority anywhere.
11:57: I would argue that's a step too far, to put it mildly, for a number of reasons. Least of which is, did you notice in Ephesians five?
12:06: So Ephesians five, 22, wives submit to your husbands, as to the
12:12: Lord. I don't say submit to all men, wives submit to your husbands. That's a unique relationship.
12:19: Verse 24, now, as the church submits to Christ, so also wives are to submit to their husbands.
12:27: In the Greek is literally their own husbands. So while I don't like the way that's being used, the way that patriarchy is now treated as a negative word,
12:38: I think that those who have adopted it as a label for themselves, have committed the same error as the folks on the left, by making the word mean too much.
12:46: So that's one position. The next position is what's called classic, and I know this is a huge word, complementarianism.
12:58: Complementarianism, as you can tell, the word complementary is in the name. What this view says, is that God has created men and women equal, in worth and in value and in redemption.
13:09: Yet when it comes to role within the home, they do not share the same role, but they share complementary roles.
13:18: And so classic complementarianism has said, well, the husband's role is to lead and to protect and to provide.
13:25: And the wife's role is to love and to honor and to respect. Again, we see that here in Ephesians five.
13:32: So look at verse 33, Ephesians five, 33. To sum up, this is Paul's 101 view of marriage.
13:40: 33. To sum up, each one of you is to love his wife as himself, and the wife is to respect her husband.
13:49: So these are the functions or the roles which the husband and the wife fulfill within a marriage.
13:55: And they complement one another. That's where that phrase complementarianism comes from. Related to this, so there's a more classic view of this, which would then say, as a result, there are certain roles the
14:11: Bible restricts to just qualified men. We'll talk about those in just a moment, in the home and in the church.
14:18: A view in recent years has developed called soft complementarianism. This view particularly relates to the role of women in the church, where they've said, so classic complementarians would say, but biblically, women cannot serve as elders in the church.
14:38: Some would argue deacons as well. That's a debated issue, not really for our discussion this morning. Soft complementarianism came along in the last 15, 20 years and said, well, yes, we agree with the idea of men and women having complementary roles.
14:54: And yes, we would agree that in the home, without question, husbands are the head. But when it comes to women ministering in the church, there's nothing wrong with women preaching, provided they do so under the headship of the eldership.
15:09: I'm gonna try and keep my opinions to a minimum just because we have so much to cover this morning. I will say this, I feel as it's not,
15:16: I personally believe that's a bit of a compromise. It's trying to not engage the issue where I think scripture is very clear about the issue.
15:27: But that is a view, again, we're just kind of serving positions at this point. And then finally, you have what's called egalitarianism.
15:36: Egalitarianism from the word for equality. So egalitarianism or evangelical feminism.
15:42: So if we were kind of drawing this on a spectrum, which may have been a more helpful way to do this. On the far right, you would have patriarchy.
15:52: You would then have classic complementarianism, soft complementarianism, evangelical feminism.
16:03: There are various forms of this last view, but they all generally agree around the idea that men and women are fully equal, that there is no role distinction, that there is no functional distinction, that they are fully equal in every way.
16:21: And that when you, this is important, when you read the passages like Ephesians five, Colossians three, those were passages that were accommodations to the time that Paul was writing, but they're not reflective of universal principles.
16:36: We'll talk more about this when we get to the objections towards the end of our time. But that's kind of a survey of the positions.
16:43: Like I said, I'm having to fly through some of this. If you have questions, come see me after the service. I'd be happy to, in more detail, walk through some of this.
16:55: Now, of the positions that are out there, I will kind of tell you upfront, I hold to the classic complementarian view.
17:02: I think that makes the most sense of scripture without doing too much or too little. I think the patriarchal view, as much as I love my brothers who take that view,
17:10: I think it does too much. I think the soft complementarian and evangelical feminist views do too little with the biblical text.
17:20: So I think classic complementarianism, that second view, makes the most sense.
17:27: Well, why do I adopt that view? That kind of leads me to point number two this morning. The point number one, we said, we're gonna survey evangelical positions.
17:34: Point number two, we're gonna identify some key questions. We're gonna identify some key questions. And I think that there are primarily three key questions all these views are trying to answer.
17:45: And I think my view answers the best. Number one, what was God's original design for men and women in marriage?
17:53: Start at the very beginning. Two, what are the specific roles, if any, of men and women in marriage?
18:02: And then number three, what does ministry look like for men and women in the church? So those are our three big questions.
18:10: What did God design marriage to be in the beginning? What are the specific roles, if there are any, of men and women in marriage?
18:18: And then what does ministry look like for men and women in the church? So those are our three main questions.
18:27: Like I said, I'm gonna have to fly through this this morning. Let's get to question number one. Question number one, what was
18:32: God's original design for men and women in marriage? Well, as I said, we have to begin with equality.
18:40: One of the objections made to my view is that we don't believe in the equality of men and women. No, I do.
18:46: If we define what equality properly means biblically. So we believe that men and women are equal in being, in dignity, and in value.
19:00: So it is not as though women are a lesser form of humanity to men.
19:06: It is not as though women have less value than men. And it's not that women are worthy of less dignity than men.
19:16: No, they are equal in their being. They are both made in the image of God. They are equal in dignity, and they are equal in value before the
19:25: Lord. So let's look at some Bible to substantiate that. This is true, first of all, because men and women are both made, like I said, in the image of God.
19:35: So Genesis 1, Genesis 1 .26, Genesis 1 .26.
19:42: It's worth noting how God speaks of men and women in creation. So Genesis 1 .26.
19:49: Then God said, let us make man in our image according to our likeness. They, please notice this, they, man and woman, will rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the livestock, the whole earth, and the creatures that call on the earth.
20:03: So God made man in his own image. He created him in the image of God. He created them, male and female.
20:12: God blessed them and said to them, be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it.
20:20: Rule the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, and every creature that calls on the earth. Again, notice
20:26: God doesn't just say to Adam, you are made in my image, and Adam, you are to exercise, rule over creation, be fruitful and multiply.
20:37: No, that commission is given to both men and women. Why? Because they are both made, man and woman, excuse me, because both the man and the woman were made in the image of God, and that hasn't changed.
20:49: So women are, men and women, excuse me, are equal in being, dignity, and value because of the image of God.
20:56: But that's also true because it's demonstrated in the body of Christ. So in Acts chapter two,
21:05: Peter is preaching that first sermon, the New Testament church. And in Acts chapter two in verse 41, actually,
21:18: I wanna start off in verse 17.
21:27: So Acts 2 .17, I'll do that instead of verse 41 on there. Acts 2 .17,
21:32: Peter was preaching, he quotes the prophet Joel, and he says that it will be in the last day, says God, that I will pour out my spirit on all people.
21:39: Then your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.
21:46: I will even pour out my spirit on my servants in those days, both men and women.
21:54: So in creation, God creates man and woman as equal. And in redemption,
22:00: God works, God pours of his spirit both on man and woman. So Galatians 3 .28,
22:07: a verse that sometimes gets misquoted. We'll deal with that objection later. But Galatians 3 .28
22:13: does say that there is no male or female in Christ in terms of a hierarchy of distinction.
22:18: No, in terms of redemption, which is Paul's point in Galatians 3, men and women are both equally united to Christ.
22:27: First Peter 4 .10, which actually will be the text for our sermon next week. First Peter 4 .10, as each one has received a gift, use it to serve one another.
22:37: Or doesn't, excuse me, Peter doesn't make a gender distinction. Men and women are gifted to serve the
22:44: Lord. Granted, the way they serve is different, but there is an equality both in creation and in redemption that we definitely want to affirm.
22:56: So men and women are equal in being, dignity and value, but there's a flip side to this, which is that they are distinct in roles and responsibility.
23:07: So yes, they are equal, but they are distinct. There are different roles for men and women in the context of marriage.
23:18: Well, that kind of leads to our next question. So question number one is what was God's original design for men and women in marriage?
23:24: Question number two, well, what are these specific roles? If they are distinct in roles and responsibilities, you might want to figure out what their roles and responsibilities are.
23:34: So what are the specific roles, if any, of men and women in marriage? I put that word, if any, in there because there are some who argue the discussion of roles is kind of pointless because roles are fluid.
23:46: And I want to say, depends what you mean by that. Because I would argue biblically, there are some very clearly defined roles.
23:56: So what, if there are roles, are there? I think we can agree this much. I mean, we talked about this a little bit last week, so this might be review.
24:06: The man is tasked with loving leadership. So again, Ephesians five, he is to, he's the head of his wife, so that denotes leadership.
24:15: But that, remember I said last week that that leadership is exercised in love. It is not domination or control.
24:25: But the fact that it is not domination control does not mean that it is not actual leadership. So the man is tasked with loving leadership.
24:35: Peter gives a good explanation of this in 1 Peter 3 .7. So 1 Peter 3 .7, he says, husbands living with your wives in an understanding way.
24:47: It's interesting, he says that, he talks about the fact that the wife is a co -heir of the grace of life. Yes, she's a weaker vessel, he does say that.
24:55: But we, I'll never forget teaching on 1 Peter, back in the
25:00: UK for a Bible study, I was asked to lead. And when we got to that section, it was for a rugby team, actually.
25:08: And one of the guys saying, when we got to that section, I don't like that Peter calls him a weaker vessel. I was like, well, sorry, we don't get to argue that.
25:15: We might argue with interpretations of what that means, but what is that? But again, we kind of,
25:21: I think it's easy to fixate on those words and miss what Peter says after that, which is that they are co -heirs of the grace of life.
25:29: That's why you should live with your wife in an understanding way. He also says, so that your prayers will not be hindered.
25:35: So men, if you mistreat your wife, don't be surprised if God doesn't listen to you. That's pressure, but it's a good pressure.
25:44: Because the man is tasked with loving leadership. And I would argue from scripture that the woman is tasked with joyful, intelligent submission.
25:54: Those two words that I've used to modify that word submission are important. Let's start with the intelligent part first.
26:02: So the intelligent part implies that there is thinking involved.
26:08: She's not just an unthinking follower of her husband. I think I said this last week when
26:14: I answered the objection. Well, what if I don't agree? Well, a wise husband listens.
26:20: He hears the advice of his wife. He takes it on board. Well, for her to have it right, that means she has to be thinking about things.
26:28: So there's an intelligence involved in this. She's not a doormat as we'll talk about in just a moment. It's also joyful.
26:36: So I made the point last week in the message that this is meant to be voluntary. Let me define the word voluntary real quick by the way.
26:44: Voluntary doesn't mean I do it if I want. No, voluntary means
26:50: I do so, it's from the word volition, of my will. It is not, remember I said that Paul commands this, but he doesn't compel it.
27:00: So it is a joyful submission. So again, Ephesians 5, 22 and 23,
27:06: Colossians 3, 18, 1 Peter 3, one through six, all point out this reality of a joyful intelligent submission that the woman is tasked with.
27:15: So the man lovingly leads, he were there being loving, and the woman joyfully and intelligently submits to her husband.
27:26: Now, those, like I said last week in the message, those are ideals. Here's the problem with ideals.
27:33: They don't always work out that way. I think we can agree that in life in general. There's the way things should go, and there's the way that they go, and sometimes the two don't match.
27:46: So let's for a moment think about what happens. Tell me Genesis three, this is gonna help us in this.
27:54: Genesis chapter three, so this is in the fall. I'm gonna argue that, so if you look at this little table that's up on screen, in the middle, you have the biblical ideal.
28:20: So the biblical ideal is, and I borrow this from that Gruden book I recommended. You have loving, humble headship from the husband, joyful, intelligent submission from the wife.
28:30: That's the biblical ideal. But look at Genesis chapter three. Even in the fall, you start to see a breakdown of this.
28:41: So Genesis three, six, so after the woman sees that the tree is good for food, delightful to look at, desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took some of its fruit, verse six, and ate it.
28:51: She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it. Already you start to see a passivity creeping.
29:01: Jump down to verse 16. So Genesis 3, 16.
29:08: Now God is speaking post -fall. He said to the woman, I will intensify your labor pains.
29:14: You will bear children with painful effort. Your desire will be for your husband, yet he will rule over you.
29:23: There's a lot of debate as to what this verse means. I will say this, if you look at Genesis 4, 7, the same construction is used in the
29:32: Hebrew, and it's clearly a negative. It's desire is for you, sin's desire is for you, but you must rule over it.
29:40: Same construction. That points out that there are post -fall two potential realities, passivity on one end and aggression on the other end.
29:54: So again, this table that we have up on screen. But the husband, if he's called to loving, humble headship, but we live in a fallen world, passivity ends up being that he abdicates that leadership.
30:05: He just checks out from that responsibility of leadership. But on the other end, he can become a tyrant or domineering.
30:21: Passivity on one side, aggression on another. How about in the case of the wife?
30:28: If the wife is called to joyful and intelligent submission, passivity can look like, and here's the danger I think for us as believers, we can sometimes assume that that passivity is a good thing.
30:37: But passivity basically comes, she becomes a doormat. That's not biblical either. Because the biblical norm is an intelligent submission.
30:48: So that's what passivity might look like in that context. Aggression in that context, the source of Genesis 3 .16,
30:55: resisting or usurping leadership. Both the husband and the wife have dangers on either side of their
31:06: God -given role that you have to bear in mind. And some are gonna be more prone to others.
31:15: So I'm gonna be openly transparent. I am very much a leave me alone kind of person.
31:23: Like, I'm sorry, life is hard enough. Can people not make it harder? Which means depending on the issue, sometimes
31:31: I can trend towards passivity. Which means that what I have to often do is to step up sometimes.
31:39: I don't really have a tyrant slash domineering bone in my body. I have encountered people who have.
31:47: I imagine some of you have too. But I know where my struggles are.
31:52: So I know this is the biblical ideal. I need to step up in that area. For other men, it might be, you are all too quick to take control of a situation.
32:05: And it can become tyranny or domination. In your case, it's not you need to step up, you need to step down.
32:11: Because if the biblical ideal is here, you're not down here, you're up here. It can be the same for wives.
32:19: For some, it's passivity. Doormat, do what he says. No, you're called to be intelligent in your submission.
32:28: So that might require you to step up sometimes. The temptation might be, whether through personal nature or you've been taught this way,
32:38: I just resist any male leadership whatsoever. And I want to say, no, you might need to step down.
32:48: Because the ideal is here and you're here. Both men and women are prone to this.
32:54: I think on Wednesday, I was asked the question, what do I think about like premarital counseling? I think this is one of the areas you're gonna need to discuss in our culture.
33:00: Because our culture tells us. It's interesting, our culture has, a pendulum swing is just so real.
33:08: At one point in history, you could make the case that the kind of,
33:15: I'm very wary of the narrative that's post -1960, if you know history, that basically says that all men were abusive prior to the 60s and the sexual revolution.
33:23: Okay, miss me with that, that's just not true. But was there a point in culture where there could be a tendency towards a more domineering male leadership?
33:34: Yep. But think about our culture today. Does our culture encourage that? It doesn't even encourage like the middle.
33:43: It's totally the other way. Talking with my wife the other week about this
33:50: Salmon series and getting to the subject of marriage last week. I said, think about growing up.
33:56: I watched way more TV growing up than I should have. Think about,
34:02: I'm not dating myself, but I'm of a certain age. Think about the male characters on TV at one point in history.
34:12: Married with children who is, Ted Bundy, thank you. I mean, he's kind of a bumbling oaf.
34:21: I grew up watching the Simpsons, a lot of the Simpsons. I mean, Homer Simpson is the definition of a bumbling oaf.
34:30: I mean, he means well, but he's kind of stupid, just to put it mildly. I remember
34:38: I was talking to her, I said, I can't think of a TV show when I was growing up in the 90s, early 2000s, where there wasn't a bumbling oaf father figure.
34:52: Why? Because our culture seems to trend in that direction. And I think the same is true when it comes to women as well.
34:59: There was a time in culture where, the word demure is making a comeback, which is interesting. But like, you know, the kind of the, kind of keeps quiet, let the man do everything.
35:11: But can we agree our culture has shifted the other way, where male leadership is inherently dangerous?
35:20: I would think so. And I want to say, again, we as God's people,
35:31: I think sometimes this can creep into church too. And I want to say, no, we want to pursue the biblical ideal.
35:39: The husband exercises loving, humble headship, the wife exercises joyful, intelligent submission.
35:47: Keep moving. Question number three, what about ministry? So we talked about the home. Well, what about ministry?
35:53: What does ministry look like for men and women in the church? Well, a few thoughts.
36:03: Ignore the random squiggle there. Firstly, biblically, leadership in the church, which is defined as exercising authority through word and example, leadership in the church is restricted to qualified men.
36:21: Now, the key word there is not men. The key word there is qualified. So 1
36:28: Timothy 2, 9 through 15. In fact, verse 12 is really the key verse there.
36:34: Paul's explicit. In fact, let's read it. 1 Timothy 2, 12. 1
36:44: Timothy 2, 12. Paul says, I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man.
36:51: Instead, she is to remain quiet. Again, Paul is talking about leadership or order in the church.
36:56: Really, that's that whole section from verse eight through verse 15. In the context of that, Paul says that women are not to teach or to have authority over men.
37:05: I would argue that that's a reference to the eldership office, because that's what being an elder is. You teach and you exercise authority.
37:14: Paul says that's restricted to men. I know this because, jump down to chapter three, verse two, same section.
37:22: It says an overseer, an elder, must therefore be above reproach, the husband of one wife, literally a one -woman man.
37:31: Again, I know how to be a one -woman man when you're a woman. So leadership in the church is restricted to qualified men.
37:40: It's not just men in general, because there are some men who are not qualified. That's what 1
37:46: Timothy 3 and Titus 1 teach us, the qualifications for an elder. Now, I have to qualify that by saying that this distinction, excuse me, does not mean that there aren't many avenues where women can, must, and should serve in church life.
38:04: So yes, I would argue the office of eldership is restricted to qualified men, but that does not mean ministry is restricted to qualified men.
38:14: Do you catch the difference there? That this particular area is off limits, but there are many areas that are not restricted.
38:26: So let's see some examples, Acts chapter 18. Acts chapter 18, Acts chapter 18, and verse 24.
38:45: Acts chapter 18 and verse 24. Now, a
38:51: Jew named Apollos, a native Alexandrian, an eloquent man who was competent in the use of the scriptures, arrived in Ephesus.
38:59: He had been instructed in the way of the Lord and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately about Jesus, although he only knew
39:07: John's baptism. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue. This is the part I want to get to.
39:13: After Priscilla and Aquila heard him, who were friends of Paul, after Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained the way of God to him more accurately.
39:28: So notice that this passage says that both Priscilla and Aquila, not just Aquila, Priscilla and Aquila together take this young man who seems to be gifted in scripture, but incomplete in his knowledge, they take him aside and they teach him the way of God more accurately.
39:49: Notice again, it doesn't say Aquila did this with Priscilla on the side. No, it says they both did this together.
39:58: So that's one way women can serve in the life of a church. Romans chapter 16 is another example.
40:11: Romans chapter 16, this is Paul's kind of wrap up to the letter. Romans chapter 16,
40:19: Romans 16, one and two. I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant, and I will know that that word servant can be translated deacon.
40:27: That opens up a whole discussion I don't have time for this morning about can women be deacons? If you want to know my opinion,
40:33: I think they can, but I recognize that's not everyone's opinion. Redeemer doesn't formally have an opinion on this.
40:41: Yeah, it's because we haven't sat down and talked about it. But this is my personal take, and this passage will be one of them where it refers to Phoebe as the word is where we got our word deacon from.
40:52: I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church in Cancria. So you should welcome her in the
40:57: Lord in a manner worthy of the saints and assist her in whatever matter she may require your help.
41:03: For indeed, she has been a benefactor of many and of me also.
41:10: So again, here's an example of a woman serving in the church to the glory of God. Acts 2 -3 -3 -5,
41:20: I won't read because of time, but again, talks about this ministry role that women have of older women, more mature women teaching younger women.
41:29: And so in our discussions about, okay, leadership in the church being restricted to qualified men, we should never take that to mean that there are no ministries women can serve in ever.
41:40: There are, I would argue, a lot of ministries where women can serve to the glory of God. And so we wanna be careful biblically that in our attempts to guard the biblical restrictions and rightfully so, that we don't overdo that.
41:55: Everyone still tracking with me so far? Okay, so those three key questions, if I can pull that slide up again, there we go.
42:07: What was God's original design for men and women in marriage? What are the specific roles, if any, of men and women in marriage?
42:13: And what does ministry look like for men and women in the church? I think the Bible is very clear about these. That doesn't stop people arguing about this though.
42:21: So for a moment, point number three, yeah, we're doing good, I think we'll get this in.
42:28: I wanna answer some of the major objections. I told you, if there are four positions, that means three of them don't agree, which means you're gonna have some objections.
42:39: So for a moment, I wanna walk through some of these objections from a biblical perspective. The first objection says that if men and women are made equal, which we agreed, if men and women are made equal, claiming roles or authority is unequal.
42:59: So the argument goes, this is the evangelical feminist argument, that the very existence of any kind of role or authority implies an imbalance.
43:11: It implies inequality. Let's, I've been talking about it, so let's kinda engage folks for a second.
43:18: What's wrong with that argument? What's wrong with that argument?
43:24: That if there are roles or authority, that automatically equals inequality. What's wrong with that argument?
43:35: Okay, so it's a cause for chaos, I would agree with that. Okay, it goes against biblical standard, would not argue that.
43:50: That's another worthy question to ask. Why do we assume all inequality is bad? Sorry?
43:58: Okay, may not be qualified. Why is it bad? Here's my answer to this objection. And it's kind of a mix of everyone's answers so far, so great answers everywhere.
44:08: The existence of authority is not in and of itself inequality. That's a, to use the fancy term, a presupposition.
44:16: You're assuming that to be true without proving it. Having a role or a function, an authority that comes with that role or function, does not change the fact that, where did we start?
44:32: Men and women are created equal in the image of God. And in redemption, men and women are equally filled with the spirit of God and are equally saved.
44:42: So if that's the case, then you can't just assume that we've denied equality because there are roles or authority.
44:58: Because I would argue God creates a world with structure and order in it. So that comes back to both
45:03: Ross and Tiffany's point, which is that if you reject that, you're basically arguing for chaos.
45:15: So actually the existence of roles and authority does not automatically mean inequality.
45:21: It simply means that there is a particular function or way things are supposed to work.
45:30: A popular argument says that male headship is a result of the fool. So let me show you the logic of this argument before I answer it.
45:39: So go back to Genesis three. I was looking at the time thing,
45:52: I was running out of time and realized that clock is fast. I've got a clock right here,
46:00: I never. Genesis chapter three.
46:06: So the argument goes, God speaks. So verse 16, he said to the woman,
46:16: I will intensify your labor pains. You will bear children with painful effort. Your desire will be for your husband, yet he will rule over you.
46:24: The argument made from this verse is, notice that God speaks like this after the fool. In Genesis 1, 28,
46:31: God speaks with perfect equality, but now the fool happens and there is a hierarchy.
46:36: Therefore, male headship is a result of the fool. In redemption, God reverses that.
46:43: So we go back, as they would argue, to where there was no headship. Are you following the logic of what they're saying?
46:53: I would argue yes, but do you get at least what they're trying to say? So Genesis one, God creates man and woman, there is no such thing as headship.
47:01: Genesis three, the fool happens, headship occurs. But in redemption, God reverses back to Genesis one, where there is no headship.
47:10: So headship only exists because of the fool. Again, what's wrong with that argument? I mean, there are lots of things, but what's wrong with that argument in particular?
47:20: Okay, so it assumes that we are not, which is, oh, yeah.
47:31: Oh, yeah, I mean, that's true. It's kind of assuming that redemption hasn't happened. That's a slightly problematic position.
47:45: Well, it's interesting. Well, I should get to that. There's an objection that kind of lands at that exact point. So I'm gonna come back to that one.
47:54: Here's the issue. If you say it's a result of the fool, what do you do with the passages like Ephesians five,
48:01: Colossians three, first Peter three, that clearly talk about wives submitting to their husbands in the context of not the fool, but redemption.
48:11: Bible seems to assume that male headship is still a thing as Ephesians is being written.
48:20: So you can't say, well, that was then. No, actually,
48:25: I would say it's not a result of the fool. I would say it's the result. Male headship, I would argue, was intended to be the design from the beginning.
48:32: I would argue you see male headship in Genesis two. So Eve is created from Adam, number one.
48:38: Number two, Eve gets her name from Adam. She's called, the man names her woman.
48:47: Genesis three, she gets that name Eve, the mother of the living, from Adam. I would argue you see male headship prior to the fool.
48:57: It may be perverted as a result of the fool. A hundred percent agree there because everything gets messed up by the fool.
49:04: But that is very different from saying that there is only male headship because of the fool.
49:10: Another objection, you see women leading in the Old Testament. The classic example that gets brought up every time.
49:19: Book of Judges, you have a prophetess named Deborah. Here's the problem with, this one's a real easy one to answer.
49:29: Deborah isn't a judge, she's a prophetess. I would also argue that when you read the story of Deborah, Deborah doesn't do anything without the general
49:39: Barak going with. Now Barak is actually kind of passive in that story.
49:45: In fact, he doesn't wanna go unless Deborah goes and Deborah goes, okay, I'll go with you, but just be clear. The glory of this story is going to a woman.
49:52: She explicitly says that. So yes, you see women leading men in the
49:59: Old Testament, but define leading. I would argue, you look at the Old Testament, the priesthood is restricted to men.
50:07: Again, qualified men, you have to be a son of Aaron. Qualifications are not all men.
50:14: You see prophetesses in the Old Testament, no problem there, but prophetesses didn't automatically have a leading function.
50:21: Where you see government or order, it's typically male. If we really wanted to get controversial, we don't have time this morning.
50:29: God, a number of places in the Old Testament says that it's a curse when women rule over men. Isaiah three is one example.
50:39: So again, we do not have time to dig into those passages and what they mean. Just simply note that the argument that where you see women leading men in the
50:46: Old Testament, therefore they should be able to lead today doesn't quite hold. Another popular one,
50:54: Galatians 3 .28. I alluded to it, let's read it, we've got some time. So Galatians chapter three,
51:07: Paul is talking about our union with Christ, verse 27. For those of you who are baptized into Christ have been clothed with Christ.
51:15: Favorite verses about our union with Christ. Verse 28, there is no
51:20: Jew or Greek, slave or free, male and female, since you are all one in Christ Jesus.
51:26: And so some will take this verse, they say, Paul says that there are no male or female distinctions. If you're in Christ, there is just being in Christ.
51:40: But again, I think that's reading a lot into this passage. Paul is talking about our union with Christ.
51:47: So verse 27, that we have been baptized into Christ, we have been clothed with Christ. Yes, in that sense, when he uses these terms,
51:55: Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, he's talking about identity. The thing that identifies us is not when we come together and we worship, that's a man, that's a woman.
52:11: So it's, that's someone in Christ. But that's the great dividing line for the people of God. That's Paul's point here.
52:17: Paul's point here is not that male, female distinctions don't exist in the church. Because again, that would make no sense when he says in Ephesians and in Colossians and other places that there are male, female distinctions.
52:35: Ross touched on this. There are some who would argue, well, the
52:40: Bible, yes, it says that, but it's on a trajectory towards full egalitarianism.
52:50: So yes, Paul says what he says. I'm not making this up. This is kind of the shortened version of this study that I've done before.
52:58: In the more full version, I actually pull up quotes and all of that. I kind of shortened it for this one hour session we have.
53:04: But there are scholars who argue that yeah, Paul held this view about, make sure
53:12: I get this right. Yes, male headship and women submitting to their, that wives submitting to their husbands and women can't serve in ministry.
53:21: Paul said that, but in Paul's writings, you can also see that Paul's trying to move away from that.
53:26: So Paul is on a trajectory. You get what we mean when we use that word? That Paul is on the right track away from believing that there are male and female distinctions.
53:38: And so Paul's writings, yes, he says stuff to accommodate to the time, but really
53:43: Paul's moving away from that. Well, I think this is an easy one to answer. That's an assumption.
53:51: Paul never says I'm trying to get away from these distinctions. So we read Ephesians five to start, portions three,
54:00: Peter in first Peter. The new Testament doesn't seem to assume that I'm saying this right now because of where we are, but hopefully that's gonna change.
54:15: In one other passage that we didn't have time to look at first Corinthians 11. Actually one Timothy two, he does the same thing.
54:21: Paul doesn't tie this to the age in which he lives. He goes back to creation and says, this is the way it's supposed to be. So no, the
54:28: Bible is not on a trajectory towards any, but there's no such thing as a trajectory in the Bible period. God says what he says.
54:37: I have five minutes, which gives me enough time to get to our final point this morning. What are the implications of this?
54:43: I've said a lot, I've been drinking from a fire hose. I did say it was gonna be a deep dive this morning. What are the implications of this?
54:50: Well, there are three of them. First of all, we must beware of theologies which reject
54:56: God's ordained order. So whether it's in my opinion, the extreme of the sort of patriarchal movement, which again, let me be clear,
55:10: Christians should not be afraid of the word patriarchy. I do, I might, this might be a good way to put this.
55:16: Patriarchy with a small P is a good thing. Patriarchy with a capital
55:21: P as a movement, I have serious questions about. I would say that's kind of messing with God's ordained order too.
55:28: I definitely think that the sort of evangelical feminist perspective that says there are no male -female distinctions anymore.
55:36: I think that too is a rejection of God's order. So theologies, systems of belief that reject that we want to be careful with.
55:45: Secondly, we must learn to reject the anti -authority impulse of our culture. Our culture doesn't like authority.
55:56: Dare I say the roots of American culture are kind of anti -authority.
56:05: What's the phrase? Don't tread on me. We all have to recognize that we are products of our time and products of our culture.
56:16: And we live in a culture that seriously hates the idea of authority. But authority is inherently bad.
56:26: I'd argue that sometimes even the authority itself starts to believe that it's inherently bad. But no, authority is a good thing.
56:34: All authority comes from God who created all things. But authority is a good thing when it is used properly.
56:44: Yes, we live in a fallen world. People will abuse authority. But the abuse of a thing doesn't negate its proper use.
56:52: So as Christians, we have to reject entirely the sort of anti -authority impulse of our culture.
57:01: Finally, we must appreciate the reality that following scripture allows us to flourish.
57:09: So when we start toying with what God's design is, when we start messing with the blueprint,
57:20: I used that analogy last week, I'm gonna use it again this morning in our sermon. When we start messing with the blueprint, we shouldn't be surprised when the thing doesn't work the way it should.
57:33: So we look at our culture. There is a clear confusion on just about everything related to just being human.
57:41: I believe it's Dr. Albert Moller who talks about the idea of we are the culture of death, that in just about every conceivable way, our culture doesn't encourage human flourishing.
57:58: But I would argue that the biblical realities that husbands are called to loving leadership, wives are called to joyful, intelligent submission, that this is the way that a
58:10: God -glorifying home is ordered, I would argue that all of these, if we follow them and not just follow them, let me say this and I'll say this to conclude,
58:23: I've got two minutes. Sometimes Christians can be tempted to obedience that isn't rooted in loving the standard.
58:41: Do you know what I mean when I say that? Like God says this, so I'm going to do it, but I don't particularly like it.
58:55: And I would argue that there are lots of Christian men and women who read what the Bible says about the nature of the relationship between men and women, husbands and wives, and they will say, because they read their
59:07: Bibles, they're like, okay, that's what the Bible says, but do I like that? No, I'll do it, but I'm not going to particularly love it.
59:21: I'm going to say this and I'll wrap up. One of the ways in which you see this, we kind of make 1001 excuses and qualifications.
59:30: So if I read a passage like Ephesians 5, so Ephesians 5, Paul says, verse, right?
59:41: There you go, 24. Now, as the church submits to Christ, so also husbands are to submit to their wives in everything. What's the immediate impulse that we all kind of jump to when we read those words, in everything?
59:54: Well, yes, but everything doesn't mean, why do we do that? Because if we're honest, we kind of hear what that says.
01:00:10: But again, if God is saying this for our good, if God is saying this because this is the way in which we flourish as His people, then we have to not just obey the standards of Scripture, but we have to come to love those standards of Scripture.
01:00:27: So the husband can't resent the fact that he's called to lovingly lead his wife. The wife can't resent the fact that she's called to submit to her husband.
01:00:36: I forget being in a meeting one time and this was being discussed, and a woman got up, it was a
01:00:42: Sunday school class. She got up and said, my husband might be the head, but I'm the neck. And I remember being a kid and just thinking, at first,
01:00:53: I thought it was funny. But then we're on our way home from church, and I'm thinking, I was like, that doesn't make sense.
01:01:02: That's important to say that. I'm not even a Christian at this point, I like English. So words mean things.
01:01:10: Who didn't say that? And years later, I was thinking about this and I realized, I know the standard,
01:01:16: I just don't love it. We have to appreciate the reality that following Scripture allows us to truly flourish.
01:01:24: I am way out of time. Like I said, I wanted to allow time for questions. I knew I wasn't gonna get to. If you have questions about anything
01:01:30: I've discussed in this class, come see me after the service. I'll be happy to address the questions as best
01:01:36: I can. I'm gonna pray. Give us a few minutes before we get started for our worship gathering. Let's pray.
01:01:44: Father, we thank you that your word does help us to live in ways that glorify you and promote our flourishing as your people.
01:01:58: Father, we pray that you help us to love this standard from your word. Help us to be committed to that which leads to our flourishing, not to our death as a culture.
01:02:10: Above all, Father, give us tender hearts to submit to your word and to obey in everything. We ask all these things in Jesus' name and for his sake.