Christianity: Religion or Relationship?

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Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

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No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ, based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the

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Apostle Paul said, But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

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In short, if you like smooth, watered -down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn't for you.

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By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we're called by the divine trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her

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King. Here's our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, ministry. Mike Abendroth in the studio, our plush, posh studio with Pastor Steve Cooley.

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Our refurbed. Yeah, I know. It's actually kind of cleaned up a little bit here. I cleaned before I went to California, and I came back and I thought, who cleaned?

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I've already forgotten. It's my COVID memory. I thought

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Pastor Steve's been cleaning my office. Oh, yeah, I did. Uh -huh. Pastor Steve's got new responsibilities as associate pastor.

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Well, somebody's got to do it, right? Maybe somebody should clean up my office. I was going to say, let's go in there,

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YouTube routine. I need somebody to give the heave -ho to a bunch of books, so I'm trying. So here's a question,

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Steve, before we get into the episode today. What do you do if you've got older books? You've kind of moved on theologically from them.

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You know, it's not like it's heretical or this, that, or the other, but you want to get rid of them. Do we give them to the congregation and just send them out in the free pile?

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Do we burn them? Do we sell them on eBay? What do we do? That's a conundrum. Well, you know, I've decided my Rick Warren books will go to the recycling just straight off.

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Okay, that's good. What was the first book you ever bought as a Christian? Do you remember?

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Well, besides the Bible, I mean, I remember I had a New King James Ryrie Study Bible. Oh. That was my first...

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My first Bible that I bought after I got saved was the New Open Bible, and it was New King James because I was at the

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Calvary Chapel, and everything's New King James. And you were open. Yeah, I was newly open. I never...

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Seriously, Steve, I was married to Kim, got saved a few months after our wedding, and it was amazing to me.

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She had this Bible. I had an old revised standard version from my Lutheran days, and she had this

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Bible that had notes in it, maps, and little offset things in the column to teach you about a word or something.

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I'd never seen anything like it. Bizarre. Uh -huh. I love that. Yeah. I'm just thinking about books.

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I mean, it might have been because I didn't jump right in buying books because I didn't know anything.

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I mean, I jumped right in buying music because I asked the guys at the store,

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I said, you know, who's something like, you know, Billy Joel or who's somebody like, you know, that or that?

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And so, you know, but yeah, books, I mean, I don't... I remember the first book

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I got given to me was Our Sufficiency in Christ by MacArthur.

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Maybe the first book, I don't know, I want to say maybe the first book I bought was The Five Points of Calvinism because Edwin was discipling me and...

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Oh, was that the Steele Thomas book? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now it's Steele Thomas Quinn, I think. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it was just mostly, you know, just scriptures back in those days.

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I was going to Calvary Chapel, West Covina, Pastor Rahl Reese, I think it's moved to some other city now.

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Maybe... No, not Whittier. Diamond Bar. Diamond Bar. And they were meeting in a refurbed

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Safeway at the time in West Covina. I think you know a little bit about West Covina. Oh, man. You probably used to shop at that Safeway.

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Yes, I did. And I got so mad when they took it over. Seriously. Seriously? I did. Yeah, because I thought...

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I used to go there and get like a quart of cream soda for a nickel. And then they, you know, they bought it and that was gone.

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I think to the right of the complex, there used to be a liquor store, then the church bought that too. And then that turned into a bookstore.

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And I saw a green book with a snake around the cross or something like that.

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And I thought, oh, that's interesting. All these faith teachers that I would watch on TV, because when you become a new

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Christian, you end up watching TBN in those days. I don't know what cable channel it is now. Was that The Agony of Deceit?

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The Agony of Deceit by Michael Horton, of all people, I think that's the first Christian book I ever bought.

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Oh, good choice. I think after that, it was Mere Christianity and Screwtape Letters. Lesser choices.

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Although, if I had to pick a S .C .S. Lewis book to be my favorite, I mean,

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I just reread Mere Christianity a year ago and thought it was atrocious, but I probably would think

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Screwtape Letters would be the best. Yeah, it is good. Yeah. I'd still promote that. The audiobook, though, is really good.

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Oh, what's that guy's name? With John Cleese. Oh, seriously? Yeah. Oh, I thought it was the Max McLean guy. No, John Cleese does it.

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Oh. Okay. I didn't know that. Good. All right. Anything happen this summer of note?

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It's been a while since we've sat here together. Well, I mean, a lot happened of note this summer, but I mean, one of my grandsons decided he's

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Santa Claus. That was pretty exciting. He's three and a half. Okay. Is he overweight at all?

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Does he have white hair? No, he just, everything, he turns everything into a chimney and he takes a bag of presents and he wants to go to our neighbor's homes.

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It's very, it's very cute. It's a little strange, but... You could probably fit him through the chimney at his age.

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Yeah, well, and he, you know, he'll walk into a room and just go, ho, ho, ho. I almost gave the smokers cough there, but I'll try now.

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Steve, I have some questions that someone sent me, and they wanted to know my answer, so I thought that would might be a good show.

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Okay. Compromise Radio Show. What about the slogan, it's not about religion, it's about having a relationship with God.

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What's your take on that? That's the question number one. That's, that's one of those questions, you know, if I were putting it as a true -false,

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I'd go, it's true -false. I mean, it's, it's true in the sense that ultimately we want people to believe in the

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Lord Jesus Christ, irrespective of, you know, the religious aspects of things, but you can't, you can't ultimately separate

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Jesus Christ from a religion, right? I mean, he commands certain things, and once you get into that,

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I guess you're basically talking about a religion. Well, yeah, you're exactly right, and you didn't know the question ahead of time, and I'm proud of you that you got the right answer.

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Here is Dictionary .com. Religion. Noun. A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

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A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

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S -E -C -T -X. That's almost a quote from what I said. I mean,

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I know what they're trying to say, but really, religion is a relationship, and relationship is religion.

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I think what they're trying to say is, it's not a bunch of rote externals with man -made rules governed by men, it's the relationship with God that because of the incarnation, he can be closer to me than a brother.

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Right. You think that's what they mean? Yeah. Somebody put it this way, it's not about religion, it's about loving

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God and loving neighbor. Well, that is kind of religion, isn't it?

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Isn't that the summary of the Ten Commandments? So, you know, as soon as somebody says that, you know, it's not about religion, it's about a relationship with Jesus Christ, I think to myself, okay, that's well -meaning, but it's ignorant.

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Right. When I see churches and they have on their billboards or their signs out front or their websites or their bulletins or programs, we're all about loving

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God and loving neighbor. What do I always say? Law. Yeah, that's what it is.

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That's what we're about. I mean, and you know, I think I used to think that way, but that's why on our programs it's

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Colossians 128, Him We Proclaim, right? We want to proclaim the Lord Jesus. Yeah, it's all about loving God and loving your neighbor.

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How are you, you know, how's that going for you? How's that working? I'm doing great. Every day I wake up and I love the

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Lord and I love my neighbors and I don't sin against anyone. Sure. How about James 127?

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Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this, to visit orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

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Sounds kind of like a good definition. I mean, that religion would be good in that. What did James know, though?

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Related question, Steve. Don't all people have a relationship with God? Yes, they do. That crossed my mind, too.

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Everybody has a relationship with Jesus Christ, you know. Is he your advocate or, in essence, is he going to be your prosecutor, right?

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You know, he's gonna be in a, if we think about it being a theological courtroom, he's in the courtroom, you're in the courtroom.

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The question is, is he going to be advocating for you or for your punishment? You know, swinging that gavel.

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What did Gershner say when someone would reply, I'm not mad at God? He's mad at you.

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As an unbeliever, right? He's angry. People don't like that. I mean, they just don't want to hear it. And, but that's, sorry, you may not want to hear it, but that's what the

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Bible says, so. I know Ecclesiastes talks about, in chapter 3, eternities set in people's hearts.

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Therefore, it's not surprising when the sociologist Christian Smith says, people's religion these days, if you meet a lady named

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Sheila, she'll tell you all the things she does, a little bit of this and a little bit of that, and cut and paste, and her religion is

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Sheila -ism. Mm -hmm. Yep. I mean, to take

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Sheila -ism to its most... Sheila -istic proportions. Yes. I like to people, ask people, you know, you always get back to this.

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What's the source of your belief? And for most people, the source of their belief is, guess what?

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Themselves. So it's Sheila -ism, right? Well, I take a little bit of this and a little bit, exactly what you said, I don't know how many people

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I've had say, tell me that. Well, it's just what I believe, okay? My God would never condemn people for doing such and such.

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My God. And that's your God, and so if there are seven billion different sets of, or I guess we're moving up on eight billion, but if there are, you know, infinite number of different truths, can they all be true at the same time?

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And the answer is no. Steve, I think that's why it's so important when we talk about Christianity, that it doesn't come from within, right?

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It's external, it's outside of us, extra nos, that is, even general revelation, it's outside of us, right?

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God is powerful and wise, but then specific things about God and who He is, what the Son has done, how

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He'd like to be worshipped, what is trust and fear and all these other things, it has to be told to us from the outside because we're corrupt, right?

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We can't trust our own hearts. I think even Machen would agree with that. He's looking benignly at us right now, so.

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The screensaver guy. If I ever get another dog, it's gonna be named Machen. Seriously? Yeah. Remember Jack McRae, his dog, when he was an unbeliever, he had a dog and named it

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Diabolos. It was a Doberman Pinscher, and it was scary. It was one of those big bulky kinds, not the thin kind, and then he got saved and he couldn't call his dog

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Devil anymore, so he named it Gabriel. Wow. That's better. Just changed the dog's name.

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Yeah. Did it damage the dog? He was looking for a dog religion, not a relationship.

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Oh. Steve, Louis Burkhoff, Louis the Burkhoff, it says in his

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Systematic Theology, the word religion is derived from the Latin and not from any word that is found in the original

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Hebrew or Greek of the Bible. It is found only four times in our translation of the

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Bible, Galatians 1 18 and 14, James 1 26 and 27, what we just looked at.

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The Old Testament defines religion as the fear of the Lord. This fear is not a feeling of dread, but of reverent regard for God, akin to awe, but coupled with love and confidence.

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So again, that whole idea, Christianity is not about religion. So what? It's not about having a right view of God?

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What, you know, just a relationship with Jesus. What, we're just going to go hang with Jesus? That's what the, you know,

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I mean, that's, it just, it sounds so sweet. And again,

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I think it's well -meaning. It is just, it misses the mark substantially. Steve, when

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I consider men joining the church and men attending Bible teaching churches, lots of men here are at this church,

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I think if they were told, by the way, Bethlehem Bible Church, where you can have a relationship with Jesus.

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I just, that doesn't, maybe it doesn't even strike women well with that, but it seems like men would go, what are you talking about?

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I'm not here for some kind of, you know, relationship with Jesus. It sounds, it sounds too,

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I don't know, it just sounds awkward. It's very emotive, you know, I mean, it just sounds, if I could put it bluntly, vacuous, empty, you know, it's just, and this idea that somehow,

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I mean, it's almost like we should have Jesus posters on our wall, you know, and that's... Blue -eyed.

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Yeah. You know, just so we could just adore this person we're in a relationship with.

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And no, I mean, as we learn more about Jesus, that's the relationship.

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And as we learn more about him, that's where the religion kicks in, because we understand that there are certain truths that are just inherent in our relationship, and that the relationship very quickly turns into a religion.

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And don't we have laws in religion, and don't we have laws in relationship, right?

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You just see the crossover back and forth. I mean, I have a relationship with my wife, I'm her husband, she's my wife, and there are certain laws, right?

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Here's a law, don't commit adultery, right? I'll be faithful to you, you know, on the positive side. I just think this is some kind of slogan to try to get people away from rote externals, and maybe they've got that in their background with Anglicanism, Roman Catholicism, Lutheranism, I don't know,

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Methodism or something, and now here's this relationship. But I'd rather tell men something like this.

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The Knights of the Round Table, why would they lay down their lives for King Arthur? Because he was a good king.

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He was a wonderful king. He's an honorable king. And when you think about the fear of the Lord as a beginning of wisdom, we think our

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God is such a great God, we want to honor Him and obey Him, and there's so much reverent regard for God because He's so great that we'd like to obey

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Him and be confident in trusting Him. And I think men are driven to Jesus, the prophet, priest, and king.

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They're not driven to Jesus and attracted by Jesus as, sorry to quote this person that shouldn't be ministry,

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Jesus with the feathered hair driving a convertible cabriolet. Yeah, the old convertible cabriolet.

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It's that time of the year, by the way, in New England. It is. Burkhoff goes on to say regarding worship, sorry, religion, in the

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New Testament, religion is a response to the gospel rather than to the law and assumes the form of faith and godliness.

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Now, that's interesting. I don't really know this quote in context, but it's a response to the gospel rather than the law.

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I guess that is, this is the good news in Christ Jesus that the Father has sent the Son. The Son dies for the sins of lawbreakers and is raised from the dead to prove that He's divine, et cetera.

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And that's what this religion is. There is a set of codified facts, right? I think what he's trying to say is the gospel's outside of us.

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The gospel is true. The gospel is historical. Jesus actually was crucified outside of Jerusalem on a real cross.

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There are some objective truths, some facts, you know, and you must believe those facts.

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So we can talk about the relationship ad nauseum, but the facts are, you know, the substance of the religion and why we worship the way we worship, why we do the things we do, why we say that we believe in the

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Bible. All those things are not really germane necessarily to the quote -unquote relationship that people want to introduce you to, you know.

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I mean, they want you to fall in love with Jesus, and then they don't want you to study, you know, the entirety of the

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Bible. They just want you to, you know, just read the red words. Those are the most important. It made me think of 1

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Peter chapter 3, where we're supposed to study our wives, our spouses, you know, and get to know them. But when it comes to God, you just, you believe a couple things and you move on.

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I don't need to study any attributes, perfections, his nature, his essence, his character, his triune nature.

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We're off to something else. Well, and it's why when we preach and when we teach, we want people to learn more about Jesus Christ.

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That's why we come here, right? And the nature of the Trinity and the eternality of the power and all these things, the holiness of God, we want people to learn these things.

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And as they learn them, well, guess what? That is, it's not about the relationship, you know, this kind of romantic view of whatever.

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It's really about the essence of who God is, who we are, and it's religion. To make sure we don't miscommunicate, or at least for me not to miscommunicate, when we're talking about religion with these, you know, quotation marks around them.

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Air quotes. Air quotes. There is a real relationship though, as God is our

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Father now because of the Son's work applied by the Spirit, and we're adopted children, and we can cry out,

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Abba, Father. And we can have this true relationship with God, not stoic, not far off, not distant, not just only transcendent

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God, but a close God. Lo, I'm with you always, even at the end of the Jesus said. I had somebody say to me recently, in fact, two days ago, you know, that they'd heard that we thought we were the only true church.

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And I said, that's interesting because, you know, when we have conferences, I think most frequently we have

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Presbyterians. I don't know if we do that, if we thought we were the only true church. And the reason

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I say that is because when we talk about religions, right, there's only one true religion.

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There are many, many religions, but there's only one true religion, and that is Christianity, one that says that, you know, it's by grace alone, through faith alone that we are saved, you know, in Christ alone.

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And we have to have the essence of the gospel that God, the second person of the

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Trinity, that also took on a second nature as a man, lived a perfect life, died a substitutionary death, and was raised on the third day, and that we must believe in him in order to be saved.

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As you just said on Sunday, you know, salvation is not by death alone, right? It's by Christ alone.

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Muerte alone. Muerte solo. So, the content of religion matters, but I think you're exactly right.

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People are so just done with dead, nonsensical orthodoxy, just going through the...

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Well, what's called orthodoxy, just going through the motions. Stand up, sit down, kneel, sing.

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Yes. Things that have the appearance of godliness, but they don't...

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They deny its power. Well, we didn't get through too many questions today. Let's wrap it up, Steve, with this final quote from Berkhoff, religion may be defined as a conscious and voluntary relationship to God.

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Well, that kind of ties it all up, doesn't it? Which expresses itself in grateful worship and loving service.

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The manner of this religious worship and service is not left to the arbitrary will of man, but is determined by God.

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Amen. That's good. It almost reminds me of,

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I don't want just head knowledge, but I want heart knowledge too, when they don't quite understand how the

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Jews or Hebrews thought of... Yeah, like there's some massive disconnect between somebody's...

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What they know and what they feel, right? And the reality is, if your heart and your head aren't matching up, it's because you're getting flutters, or you ate too many burritos, or whatever the problem is.

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You can only love what you know, right? I mean, if you meet somebody on the street and just say,

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I've just fallen in love with you. Well, there are many things that might be, what it isn't, is love in any sensible definition of the word, right?

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And we grow in the love of knowledge of Christ. Almost could lead us into talk about...

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Excuse me. Every once in a while, I kind of have this little COVID thing. I just make this little cough.

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Have you been tested? Sorry. Many times. Many times.

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I always wanted a John Gershner smoker's cough without smoking, kind of the R .C. Sproul thing. You get the gravelly voice.

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I have no idea what I'm talking... Anyway, today we're talking about religion, relationship.

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I think it would be pastoral of us, and it would be good and right and just to do so. If someone says to you, dear listener, it's not about religion, it's about relationship.

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We don't want you to crush them and say, but Burkhoff says the exact same thing. Religion is defined as a conscience and voluntary relationship to God.

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So, what will help people along? We want you to have a relationship with God as friend, as son or daughter, adopted by the father because of the son, but we just want you to get rid of the slogan.

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Well, here's a good question for somebody who says that to you. Well, that's great. How do I enter into this relationship with Jesus?

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And as soon as they start explaining that, what are they doing? They're giving religion. Yes. This is what this religion says and does.

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And of course, unlike other religions, this is religion where God is the actor.

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He's supernatural. He's sovereign. He instigates. He initiates. He saves, and we respond because even the response that we have has been granted to us by grace versus I'm doing things to get to God.

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So, is that just predetermined by God? Matter of fact, it is. There's more to the story, but there is a predetermination.

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Oh. We could say that. Would you like to be determined or predetermined with your relationship with God?

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I guess predetermined. Are post -determined? No. Right?

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God looks at everything afterwards, then decides. That would be really bad. He's post -determined.

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Yeah, that I wouldn't like that very much. I like flag routes better than post routes. Well, all

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I know is if God looks at the sum total of everything that I've done in my life and on that basis decides whether or not

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I'm going to heaven or hell, I'm in a lot of trouble. I need that perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ counted to me.

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I need that in order to get into heaven. I think Jesus both had religion and relationship with the

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Father. Yes. Amen. Mike Abendroth, Steve Cooley. This is No Compromise Radio Ministry.

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You can email us info at nocompromiseradio .com. A few spots open for Israel. Talk to you soon.

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No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston.

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Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life -transforming power of God's word through verse -by -verse exposition of the sacred text.

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Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on route 110 in West Boylston.

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You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.