Exaggerations in the Tomb Show Then George Bryson

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 and now with today's topic. Here is James white.

Daylight Savings Time and the Challenge of Researching the Tomb Book

And afternoon welcome to the dividing line just a quick programming note for those of you who are Cursed with having to play with time those of you who do not honor God's creation of time and think you can play with it.

You will be playing with it this weekend or so. I have been told not that we know here, but The rest of you they're messing around with daylight savings time. Once again, you cannot save daylight as anyone ever saved a like no, no one can save daylight.

It's completely reverberate. So it cannot be saved just woke rich up and Me is totally depraved. It's totally brave to daylight is totally braved and I cannot be saved. And so I I think it starts this weekend.

That's what I've been told. I think my wife confirmed that it's a mess for the airlines to have Change all that stuff around and black. It's it's bad. You know, this could be like why 2k? You know what?

There are actually people who did say that because it's been changed from where it was. It's been moved back by like two weeks on each end of it. So that's most of the year at least eight I think what is about eight months of the year now is with this thing.

Anyway, that means that from your perspective The time of the dividing line will change it will not change from our perspective because we live in a land where we recognize you cannot change time and That time time marches on whether you play with your alarm clock or not.

And therefore we will be here at our regular time, but it's going to change depending on where you are if you play with your clocks, so just be aware of that and And you know make the the necessary adjustments.

Last night. I had the opportunity of doing something interesting. Obviously in working on the book and right now for me the biggest task I'm facing on the book Is just simply time. It's not material. I've got the material I've got I've got probably about three or four more books coming haven't gotten that one that we ordered that I ordered.

Yeah, that's that's not good. We you might want to check double check that check your orders on online, but I ordered one yesterday and The material isn't the issue in fact just a few moments ago I was sitting here in the studio queuing up the sounds at the same time.

I was Communicating through our chat channel with a student at Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary in the library and he was scanning the Greek text of the Acts of Philip from the version published by Francois Bovan of Harvard in I believe it was 1999 and with a French commentary the English version comes out in 2008 and And Then faxing me or not faxing but but sending me the PDF scans Through email and so I was able to then rotate them and and while we're still chatting and channel check the check the verses check the terms Etc etc so it's it's amazing what you can do with with technology these days and Anyway The real challenge here is going to be just getting all this information into a coherent understandable written form so that's We can get it out on time.

That's going to be that's going to be the big thing now obviously I you know, I've mentioned this numerous times on the program the Central argument of the film in the book is that Mary Omni is Mary Magdalene without that Statistics fall apart the the the family falls apart.

Everything it's gone. That is as I played for you the very first day after this all broke that first Tuesday. I played the citations from Cameron and from Yakubovich where they both said that Simca put it all together when he found out the Acts of Philip identified Mary Omni is Mary Magdalene and the book just Makes that bald statement that it they just it they definitely do so Cameron made that statement that I I really get the feeling.

These guys actually think that they probably have not even bothered. Looking at the original though the book itself at one point talks about photocopies of the Greek of The Acts of Philip so somebody went to a library got this stuff.

Mary Omni is definitely in there what's missing is Mary Magdalene and the argument connecting the two so what I happen to do is I Was doing some research last night chasing some articles. I want to thank all of you who have sent me URLs.

They have been dutifully sent to me. I've followed up on them and it's frequently been following up from those and You know wandering about sort of how you do on the web that I have found some of the most important stuff that I have and I was doing that last evening and I ran across the email address for Francois Bovong.

So I said hey nothing nothing to be lost in contacting the gentleman and asking him and so I wrote to him last evening and introduced myself and I quoted some some texts From the book now, of course, I'm at home.

So I had to VPN in and and get these these files from my from here and then put them into Gmail that I was sending this from and again, the the Technology part is fascinating to me anyways. Especially when you started with a 8088 that didn't have a hard drive.

So anyway, I quoted this section from page 69 of the book. Which says he handed me a folder containing copies of an ancient manuscript penned in Greek along with professor Bovong's Translation. The first page was headed by the words acts of Philip in this text.

Mary Magdalene wasn't a In this text. This is the book speaking in this text Mary Magdalene was an apostle who preached and baptized and performed healing miracles. This Mary was very very different from the Magdalene of church doctrine and not a fallen woman at all.

Did you notice the Greek version of her name Simca asked according to the Apostle Philip who identifies himself as Mary's brother. She is not known as Magdalene the woman from Magdala rather She is known by her given name, but the same word inscribed on the side of I a a 8500 which is Mary Omni.

Then on page 96 we read in June 2000 Bovong and Bouvier published the first complete translation into French of the Mount Athos version of the acts of Philip with its identification of Mary with its identification of Mary Magdalene as Mary Omni the sister of the Apostle Philip the acts of Philip provides us with a much more complete version of Mary Magdalene Than the Gospels and quote that's page 96.

The earliest was 69. Now I quoted those to Professor Bovong and then I asked these questions the book makes the statement that the acts of Philip specifically Clearly identifies Mary Omni as Mary Magdalene.

May I inquire number one. Does the term Magdalene Magdala appear anywhere anywhere in the Greek of the acts of Philip? Number two does the text the acts of Philip make the specific identification of Mary Omni as Mary Magdalene.

Number three if the answer to number two is no is it your position that this? Identification is found upon certain is founded upon certain parallels to Thomas and other Gnostic literature. Along with the origin citation, which is contrast all some 5 .62 using Mariam a.

Finally sir, do you feel your position in your words have has been accurately represented in both the documentary and the published book? Thank you for your attention. Now. I did not know if I would get a response or not.

But this morning I did get the following response from Francois Bovong. Dear, dr. White. I thank you for your message. I am pleased to answer your questions. First the name Magdala does not appear in the acts of Philip.

Second no, and let me go back and so, you know, what he's saying No to the question I ask is does the text of the acts of Philip make these specific? Identification of Mary Omni as Mary Magdalene which the book directly without qualification or equivocation asserts.

Which Cameron asserted on the today show which Simca asserted on the Larry King show? Bavone's response that question is no since the woman called is Since the woman Apostles called during the whole text Mary Omni.

Mary Omni is a possible Greek for the Semitic name Miriam. And the woman acts in the apocryphal book as Mary Magdalene in non canonical stories. Then when I asked him, all right, is. It's your identification of Mary Omni as Mary Magdalene.

Is that based upon? Parallels to Thomas the single reference in origin. He says third. I believe yes, but. But but but but but but but which is not repeated that many times. I wasn't quoting. I just emphasizing for everyone I place myself on the level of literary traditions and not on the level of history, I Believe that the acts of Philip carry old traditions concerning a strong woman disciple of Jesus.

Here is what I sent to another colleague. It may interest you and here's a whole separate paragraph. In these interviews, this is the these the interviews that are used in the film in the book. In these interviews I said that I was not convinced.

Okay back up. These the interviews he did after it came out in these interviews. I said that I was not convinced by the program. I thought that the filmmaker had two speeches on the one hand. He expresses his wish to open a scholarly discussion on the other.

He realizes his personal agenda. I said also that the final part with Jesus marriage and having a child is just science fiction. I added that the film should deal with a very old tradition of the Holy Sepulchre.

Which remains for me the best location for Jesus tomb since the Emperor Constantine built this monument in the spot where the Emperor? Hadrian erected a statue of himself and another for Jupiter in the 2nd century to humiliate the Christians who venerated Jesus tomb at this place.

I said finally concerning Mary Omni that this name is a possible equivalent to the Semitic name Miriam besides Mary Maria and Miriam. I did not say that this was the real name of Mary of Magdala and that the traditions concerning Mary Omni and the acts of Philip Coincide with what we learned from this woman in the New Testament and non-canonical texts.

I said that the acts of Philip sends her to the Jordan Valley. But the filmmaker concludes that this means Jerusalem. Did I not make the exact same point? I certainly did. I have published sufficiently in New Testament studies in 1984 in the book which Mary edited by F. Stanley Jones.

Which is the one that I'm I ordered just a couple days ago and supposed to be here no later than Monday. And the fast trip for Elizabeth Schussler Florenza as well as in the Aussteig und Niedergang der Römischen Welt in 1988 plus the critical edition of the acts of Philip in the series apocryphal forum of the corpus Christianorum.

Which is what I was just having faxed not faxed to me. Why do I keep saying faxed? That's PDF scam sent to me in order for my position to be known by Scholars and quote, so I wrote back to dr. Bavon and I asked when When the English translation of the acts of Philip is due out I had found that source you can buy that source.

We if we want to wait 25 days we could buy that source for a mere about $378 that's that's how much the book us $378 is. Is how we would get that anyways the English translation he said will appear in 2008 so next year the English translation of the acts of Philip will will be out and available for all of you who are just chomping at the bit Waiting for waiting for that to come out.

So there is your Current and up-to-date information in regards to things we now have a direct contact With the cardi Matheson the DNA specialist now with Francois Bavon and honestly with what those two have said and demonstrate by their own documentation the selective spin of their Opinions their findings in the case of DNA their conclusions in the case of Bavon and the acts of Philip the selective spin grabbing just a Portion of what they said and then sending it out there with a certain spin on it should be more than enough for anybody to dismiss the Jesus family tomb for what it is a very errant attempt to create a story out of out of nothing, but anyway, we will be Obviously expanding upon that in the book and Making the those those direct emails available and expanding even more so upon.

Well as much as we can expand upon in a period of time that we have that's that's the way to put it. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one is the phone number that? Johnny has called with a topic right on this subject.

Hi John. Hi, Johnny. How are you doing good good good?

I was calling because I've actually paid attention to the to the press-conference that I listened to from them when before the book well, I think the book had just come out but um. One of the things that professor Tabor had done is that he had explained that he had a I don't know.

What was the other gentleman? I forget better green I believe it was yes. Who had said that he had spoken with a Jehovah's Witness into a Roman Catholic and then mr. Tabor has mentioned that he had spoken with John Dominic Ross and then they had said that The resurrection is a spiritual resurrection and that there was no need as it was said by the gentleman that for there to be Jesus having the Spleen and all of this stuff.

And as as the there's a discussion went on a professor Charlesworth Was echoing the same idea about a spiritual resurrection rather than a physical one and really the other side wasn't heard and I heard Some of the same idea repeated by mr. Tabor on the show with Ted Koppel and Being that there was very limited time I remember professor Daryl Bach wasn't able to really interact with the holy idea of first ranking 15.

Which I believe is taking real center stage at the bottom of the debate. And I was wondering what your thoughts were on that and if you're going to include anything in your in your book on the on.

The subject of first ranking 15 well, yeah, I mean I Actually am going to probably include either as an appendix or as the substance of the chapter. My opening comments from the debate that took place on on the mercury in 2005 where Jim Renahan and I debated John Dominic Ross and Marcus Borg.

Some people may wonder why we haven't made that debate available yet. We're we're going to be doing that. Unfortunately, what happened is The beginning of the debate the the audio was just all wrong. I mean it was worse than The audio that we had for the Barry Lynn debate.

And so in essence what we're gonna have to do what I'm gonna have to do is since I still have the exact notes that I read For my opening statement. I'm gonna have to somehow try to read those notes again and rerecord it and And Dub that over the the video now, obviously, it's next to impossible to pace yourself in such a way.

Maybe I can actually record the video and have it running in front of me. And and you know, but you can imagine what that's that would be like trying to figure out. You know trying to read something and inflect it properly while at the same time watching a video of yourself.

Having done it before and trying to lip-sync it, you know, it's just. It's almost a milly-vanilla thing, but that may be before your time Johnny, so don't worry about but anyway. So that's the reason we haven't put it out.

But the information is still there. And in fact just today I recorded the section from Jim Renahan and his opening statement and I sent that off to one of the folks. Well, I didn't send it off, but I actually youtubed it.

And if any of you have been watching my youtube stuff, you know how to get hold of anything I've put up there so you can watch for yourself Jim Renahan's about six and a half minutes of Jim Renahan's opening statement where he likewise is focusing upon the book of Acts and and the Apostolic proclamation of what resurrection meant and the things along those lines so I would probably like to take the transcript of both of those and and use it because I Do want to address this subject the the very first chapter after the introduction is called why does it really matter and Obviously what I have to address is this whole idea that well, you know spiritual resurrection physical resurrection, you know.

You don't really need it doesn't really matter. I don't have as much time as I would like what I would normally do in a situation like this as I would pull together various creedal statements from Roman Catholicism Eastern Orthodoxy The major Protestant creeds and you could make it very very plain.

That no one held to a merely spiritual resurrection up until the last century or so and That's certainly on a creedal statement that that is not representative of of the historical Christian position and that's to find Jesus bones in an ossuary is to deny the Christian faith and Toto and You know, they just these folks just may be so politically Correct that they're they're trying to find a way around having to say that Christianity is false but in essence the conclusions of their quote-unquote research are that Christianity is false and and people need to Need to be aware of that fact and I will obviously be emphasizing that as best I can in the time frame that I have.

First Corinthians 15 and the Bodily Resurrection

Hello. Yes, sir. I can I'm trying to listen to. What you were saying is just that you're really cutting out but. The one of the emphasis Imprecation and is that their misunderstanding and I think I remember you playing a clip from NT right on the issue of because they like emphasizing the the physical and the spiritual first Corinthians 15 right on a misunderstanding of Suka God.

Now I can hear you better good and I was hoping that. Well, I was wondering if you you're going to expand on the the nature of the meaning of the word.

Or soulish bodies who could cross in first Corinthians 15, I don't I don't know if I'm gonna have time to do that or not. I There's so much stuff to put in here. And that's that's not the central aspect of the argument.

There they don't get to that level at all in in the discussion in in the book they they all I do is just quote a Roman Catholic prelate that says that wouldn't affect me and They're not getting into that level of stuff and so I probably will not have the opportunity of doing so in in only two weeks.

No, but that did come up in the discussion with John Dominic crossin in the debate On on the ship and he he admitted when I brought that up. He said, you know what? I've changed my viewpoints on that.

I think NT right is is correct. And so he changed his viewpoint at that point not the change at that point. But he had had changed his viewpoint since he had last published on the subject. So. But I I sort of doubt it's gonna get to that level In in the time period that we have no, okay.

Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you. All right guys. Bye. Bye. I believe we have fixed our Volume issue there. I think it's just because we've been trying to go back and forth with doing iron sharpens iron and not blowing their 1957 vintage amplifiers up with.

We're sending out so. That's probably why that was the case. So if other folks call in you probably should be able to hear a little better. All right, eight seven seven seven five three three, three, four one.

George Bryson on Limited Atonement and Divine Sovereignty

I had said on Tuesday that we would Look at some George Bryson and Shabir Ali and all we ended up doing was listening to Shabir Ali and so I'm sort of sure George Bryson and all of his legions of fans Who are here, you know listening at all times to the program.

We're a little bit Unhappy about that. And you know what we here we go. How's that oh good. That's called plugging in the laptop to the soundboard so that you can hear that's our version of plug-and-play.

That's Except for us. It's plug-and-play.

I.

Just don't think there's something wrong with my output that's just all there is to it on this laptop. There's there's something wrong with that output and we got a three-year warranty on it. We ought to just have them out and replace a dumb thing.

What do you think? I Think they'll laugh at us. I don't think they'll laugh at us. No, I don't that we paid good money for that. So and the guy who came out was pretty nice guy. So I you know first time so anyway.

Those the greats all the fans of George Bryson. Yes that guy right there he we did that we my book we read his book and. Now we are not just reading his book my book yes, we are now listening to his lecture and We have gotten about six minutes into the second half of it here.

So we'll do some of this first then move on to George Bryson and your church. Bryson should be early and your phone calls as.

Well perish.

I.

Want to give you another translation of the exact same quote from Calvin. The word hardened when applied to God in Scripture implies not only Permission as some weak exegetes would interpret it But also the action of divine wrath.

All External external circumstances which contribute to the building of the reprobate are the instruments of his wrath. Satan himself works inwardly with compelling power. It's God's minister in such a way that he only acts by his command.

Paul does not inform us that the ruin of the ungodly is foreseen by the Lord But that it is ordained by his counsel and will no one was the destruction of the ungodly foreknown. But the ungodly themselves have been created for the very specific purpose of perishing.

Are you with that?

Now of course for those of you who may not have been listening over the past couple of months. We've been playing for quite some time now in a slow and Fashion This this mp3 recording of a pastor's conference that took place back in I would estimate somewhere around October November of 2003 where George Bryson is lecturing holding forth to a whole group of Calvary Chapel pastors on the subject of Calvinism because he is their Calvinism expert and we know the date on this not because there's anything on the mp3.

But because of the fact that so he's mentioning the fact that he was going to be debating me on the Bible Answer Man broadcast which took place in the early December of 2003 so that's sort of why we figure we know where this was it had to have been before that and shortly before that so.

That's what we're listening to and what he's doing here is what he did in our debate. He honestly believes that merely citing John Calvin is enough to defeat Calvinism. Of course what Calvin's talking about first and foremost here is the sovereignty of God over all all his creatures and everything He does in time and space and he doesn't seem to realize that.

Even during our debate and he should have recognized this I mean I could tell what was going on when he would quote Calvin the he he would do this this pause and I know what he's expecting. He's expecting the Calvary Chapel crowd to go.

Like that see but the Calvary Chapel crowd didn't show up we were at the Anaheim Vineyard and the Anaheim Vineyard folks didn't show up and and most of Calvary Chapel folks didn't show up and it was about three-quarters of reformed folks and When he would give this pregnant pause To get the gasp effect all the Calvinists are sitting to go on.

Yep. Uh-huh. Just just didn't help his argument at all, you know to have these folks sitting there nodding up and down going, uh-huh yeah, okay, and your problem with that is you know, and He I don't know if he just didn't hear it.

See it didn't recognize what's going on I don't know, but he's still he's still going on with it and Still thinking that's that's the best way to handle these things. How are we on our tape here? Oh.

We're doing well. I'll have a couple more quotes and we'll open it up. The third point of Calvinism. That's the first point. Third point. All right, excuse me. That was the second point. This is the third point.

Whatever point is there a point of Calvinism or limited atonement in mind the Senate of Dort said this. This was the Sovereign Council and most gracious will and purpose of God the Father That the quickening and saving efficacy of the most precious death of his son should extend to all the elect.

For bestowing upon them alone the gift of justifying to pay thereby to bring them infallibly to salvation. Godfrey who is a professor right over here at Westminster Theological Seminary said this. Those that hold that the atonement is limited or definite in extent teach that Christ died to save only Those whom the father had predestined to eternal life.

Therefore the atoning work of Christ is applied in due time to all for whom it was accomplished. Amen if the father has elected Some sinners to eternal life and the Holy Spirit applies the saving work of Christ only to the elect.

Then Christ is in harmony with the purpose of the father in the spirit. Amen, so Christ died on the cross for the elect alone. Amen. The question Sproul says is this for home was the atonement design.

Some argue that all the elect limited atonement.

Hey, give him give him credit. He said Sproul. He didn't say Sproul. That's why he's at the elite level and certain other people who will not be mentioned. Are still well, wherever they are.

Is that the benefits of the atonement are limited to believers who meet the necessary condition of faith? That is through Christ atonement was sufficient to cover the sins of all men and to satisfy God's justice against all sin.

It only affects salvation for believers. The formula you guys have all heard this the formula reads sufficient for all efficient for the elect only. This doctrine of limited atonement goes further than that.

It is concerned with the deeper question of the father's and the son's intention in the cross. It declares that the mission and death of Christ was restricted to a limited number.

You know, I at least at this point. I'm awful glad that someone's just speaking this To go to the intention of God so often this conversation never mentions that now whether now obviously he's Trying to disagree with this but you know I have to remember I have met people who became reformed as a result of my encounter with George Bryson on the Bible Answer Man broadcast and When they first heard it they were angry By what I was saying and they were angry that I wasn't being refuted and they were angry that I was the only one using the Bible and everybody else was running off to philosophy and things like that and you know, I Understand all that but they heard the truth they were challenged by it they understood it and over time came to see how it fit with with the proper biblical exegesis things like that, so I He's reading it so fast.

I'm not sure how anybody can actually follow along overly. Well, but still it's being heard and and to at least get this out there where Sproul is Accurately and properly talking about the what was the intention of God?

What did God want to do their whole side of course is God? Did not have either did not have a specific intention. He's just sort of doing the the peanut butter atonement thing here. You know where you just sort of spread it all over the place or it was God's intention to save everybody.

Or.

It was it was. Well, he's trying and his intention isn't actually going to be fulfilled see. That's that's the issue. We're gonna take a break today. We can take a break. All right, we're gonna take a break.

We've got one caller online. We'll continue on with George and Shabir and your calls here on the dividing line right after this.

It's not an easy way it's a journey.

To the Sun.

Following Jesus. What is dr. Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book. Chosen, but free. A new cult. Secularism. False prophecy scenarios. No, dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called Calvinism he insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent Philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant.

In his book the potter's freedom James White replies to dr. Geisler, but the potter's freedom is much more than just a reply. It is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded.

Indeed it is a defense of the very gospel itself in a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate. James White masterfully counters the evidence against so-called Extreme Calvinism defines what the Reformed faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the Reformers is the very one taught in the pages of Scripture.

The potter's freedom a Defense of the Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's chosen. But free you'll find it in the Reformed theology section of our bookstore at a omen org. Public crimes the criminal mishandling of God's Word may be James White's most provocative book yet White sets out to examine numerous crimes being committed in pulpits throughout our land every week as he seeks to leave no stone unturned.

Based firmly upon the bedrock of Scripture one crime after another is laid bare for all to see. The pulpit is to be a place where God speaks from his word. What has happened to this sacred duty in our day?

The charges are as follows. Prostitution using the gospel for financial gain pandering to pluralism cowardice under fire felonious eisegesis entertainment without a license and Cross-dressing ignoring God's ordinance regarding the roles of men and women is a public crime occurring in your town.

Get pulpit crimes in the bookstore at a omen org. The history of the Christian Church pivots on the doctrine of justification by faith. Once the core of the Reformation the church today often ignores or misunderstands this foundational doctrine.

In his book The God Who Justifies theologian James White calls believers to a fresh appreciation of understanding of and dedication to the great doctrine of justification and then provides an exegesis of the key scripture texts on this theme.

Justification is the heart of the gospel in today's culture where tolerance is the new absolute. James White proclaims with passion the truth and centrality of the doctrine of justification by faith. Dr. Jay Adams says I lost sleep over this book.

I simply couldn't put it down. James White writes the way an exegetically and theologically oriented pastor appreciates. This is no book for casual reading. There is solid meat throughout an outstanding contribution in every sense of the words The God Who Justifies by dr. James White.

Get your copy today at a omen org.

That's what I call sleepy time bumper music, man. That ain't good at 430 in the afternoon. Man, you're gonna you're good someday you look up and I'm just gonna be.

I.

Do do that's that's that's smooth. Yeah, you know who that is. That's right. It's John Tesh. That's right. Well, I doubt that's John Tesh. But it's it's John. Yeah, it's some some guy. Oh see now here's Where that appears to be to Greek text on opposite pages.

I'm I'm talking to my special secret agent at Gordon Conwell Seminary. We don't all need to pray for him that he will not be struck by the same spirit that attacked Jerry Medetich's and Scott Hahn. And Oh, did you know that that that wacky guy on the the the God who wasn't there?

Also is a graduate of Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. Steve would I mean the list of? apostates is long.

I.

Don't it's sort of hard for me to keep up with what he was asking. But I was assuming that there was going to be another Scan that had 130 in it, but maybe that's on the the other page. Maybe I just forgot to look at that I don't know.

I will I will see if that's if that's where it is. Cool. Great if it's already there. No problem, and all is well. Okay. Hey, you just got to hear some live inside research taking place right now on the upcoming book and I'm sure you're all.

Very.

Excited about that. Okay. We have a call from a not just across the pond. This is this is from the other side of the earth actually and from Australia. This is a Peter. Hi Peter. How you doing?

Great. Good to hear from you again. Yes, sir. What's up? We were listening to George Bryson there and you know. We know he's tactics about give me the the faith Christians before they come in contact with Reformed teaching and I'll make sure they never come near it, right?

I Just want to discuss another tactic that they've used in our local area. Okay, it was similarly as bad and just as effective.

Yes, sir.

What they did was they they started trying to argue with the pastor that was teaching in the church and the reformed doctrine. Well, there were two pastors there, which is a good thing and. They couldn't win that way.

So what they did was they made threatening phone calls to his wife and family. And eventually caused him to leave the situation because it was causing too much stress for them. Well now I'm a little confused here.

Who what was this a? This must been over me and.

People in the church didn't like the reformed teaching. I see. Okay, so they. They chose to attack the family. Yeah, well allegations and things like that, well, unfortunately.

When when politics crops up in local churches, whether it's theologically motivated or What its motivation is sometimes it's it's not theologically motivated. It's always an ugly thing, unfortunately, and I have heard many a many a Horror story about how pastors have been treated within the context of churches and they go back a long ways sadly.

So I don't. I would not want to lay that at the feet of our minions in general Because I know many in our minion who would define that to be a reprehensible thing. I.

Think we all would. The problem is now this happened five years ago. And now this pastor has moved on to another church, of course and with friends of mine and. Now he feels he has to step down as a pastor because he still bears a grudge against these people.

That attacked his family in that way. Hmm.