August 15, 2023 Show with Virgil Walker on “A Biblical Theology of Public School Education”

Live from historic downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, home of founding father James Wilson,

19th century hymn writer George Duffield, 19th century gospel minister George Norcross, and sports

legend Jim Thorpe, it's Iron Sharpens Iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning

issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens

another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener,

with your own questions.

And now here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 15th

day of August 2023.

And the G3 Conference is rapidly approaching.

The G3 Conference, if you're not aware of it, you must not listen to this program until today

because I've been announcing it multiple times every day for quite a while.

The G3 Conference is my, by far, favorite conference to attend where I have been

manning an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio for quite a number of years.

And this year, the National Conference is being held from September 21st through the 23rd in

Atlanta, Georgia, on the theme, The Sovereignty of God.

And we have today an individual who is the Executive Director of Operations for

G3 Ministries.

He's a returning guest, one of my favorite guests to interview.

He's also an author and co -host of the Just Thinking podcast along with Daryl Bernard

Harrison.

And today, we're not only going to be discussing the G3 Conference and promoting it.

We're also going to be discussing a theme that Virgil has burdening his heart and

mind, a biblical theology of public school education.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Virgil Walker.

Hey, brother.

Can you hear me all right?

I hear you perfectly fine.

Good.

Listen, it's a joy to be with you.

I'm so glad to be back and having the opportunity to speak with you, with your folks who listen

and looking forward to what we have in store for the G3 Conference.

That's for sure.

And why don't you tell our listeners who may be unfamiliar with G3, like I said, if they are, this

must be their first time listening today to the show.

But why don't you tell them about the conference?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

G3, the G3 Conference, the G, the number three, stands for gospel, grace, and glory.

G3 has for years, nearly a decade, been primarily a conference -based

ministry, all begun in 2013 with

the idea of bringing just a solid theology conference with fantastic

expository preaching to a local church, which is my local church here in Douglasville,

Georgia, at Praise Mill Baptist Church, under the leadership of Dr. Josh Bice, who

kind of had this brainchild and wanted to just bring solid biblical teaching, solid

expositional preaching to the pulpit here at Praise Mill.

That grew over the course of some time.

And by 2017, they hosted the first major event at a

convention center there in Atlanta, Georgia, with about 2 ,300, 2 ,400 people

in attendance at that first conference, again, away from the local church.

I was there at that one.

Chris, I think you were there at that one, were you not?

Yes, I was.

Yeah.

And so that was my first in -person experience.

Of course, I'd been watching since 2013 online as the videos began to post

from the local church conference here.

Of course, it grew.

And over the last few years, we've just seen explosive, explosive growth.

In 2020, Josh Bice reached out to me and had been watching me from afar.

I was in Omaha, Nebraska.

And he had asked me to begin doing some writing for G3.

The ministry was taking a pivotal turn, not away from conferences, but

more trying to kind of put a flag in the ground as it relates to providing

sound biblical teaching in content form.

So G3 Press was formed.

Blogs were formed.

The ministry began to kind of have its own banner of a 501c3.

I was hired as the Executive Director of Operations to provide oversight for the conferences, as well

as workshops that we do.

So we have a biennial conference, a national biennial conference, so every other year.

And then in the off years, we have regional conferences around the country.

And so we kind of do that at least twice, two times during the course of the off years.

It has grown.

In 2021, our national conference had about 6 ,500 people in attendance.

And currently, as I speak to you right now, Chris, we've got a little over 7 ,500 people

that are registered for the conference for 2023.

We're still about 40, a little under 40 days remaining before the conference actually

hits.

And so as you can imagine, I've got a ton of work to do.

But at the same time, we're extremely excited about the fact that we really feel confident that we'll actually

sell out, we'll get to the 8 ,500 capacity that the venue

allows us to have.

The conferences are amazing.

There's so much that can be said about them.

The resources that are provided in the bookstore, we'll have 12 to 13 different publishers, more

than 7 ,000 titles that will be available at amazingly discounted prices.

You'll definitely want to load up on those.

And then again, in our exhibitors hall, there'll be more than 100 different vendors

with all different kinds of ministries.

I know you'll be, as a podcast, as Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio, you will be there as well.

Actually, this year we have a podcast row, if you can believe that, with all our media and our

podcasters kind of all in the same space and place so that as speakers want to be interviewed and

they come through, they'll be able to kind of go one booth after the next after the next and be able to engage different media outlets

that are there and available.

So we're looking forward to that process.

And again, all of that is just the excitement around brothers experiencing the conference

together, kind of having an atmosphere of really family reunion

that you experience when you come to these things, especially if this is not your first time.

In addition, we have some of the absolute best preaching happening in the world.

It will be the men who will be preaching will be speaking on the doctrine of the sovereignty of God.

Just amazing speakers, you know, from Josh Bice to Votie Bauckham to Stephen

Lawson to Paul Washer to Phil Johnson to James White to Mike Riccardi, Justin Peters,

Ken Ham, Owen Strand.

The list goes on and on and on.

We have somewhere in the neighborhood of about 30 speakers and all of them are

just absolute rock stars as far as I'm concerned and are lights out as it pertains to just

powerful expositional preaching and teaching.

Even the even the the breakout sessions have some of the absolute best of the best who are going to be

doing their thing.

Myself, I'll be there.

Daryl Harrison, my partner, will be there as well.

We have a breakout session where we will be doing a live experience of

the Just Thinking podcast.

A lot of great things that are happening during the conference.

We've got things happening during the pre -conference.

We've got things happening during the conference.

We have things happening after hours.

So there's all kinds of things going on around the clock beginning on September

21st.

Our pre -conference, of course, starts on the 20th.

And if you're interested in that, you'll definitely want to go to g3min .org

to learn more information about all of that.

But you can set this conference up in a way that is very specific to the issues, the challenges,

the ideas that you're wanting to learn about from just some of the best preachers in the world.

Now, I want you to find out from Voti Baucom exactly how much I have to pay him to do an

interview with him while he is there at the G3 conference.

I hope he gives me the first shot on interview row or podcast row, as you call it.

Yes, yes, yes.

Well, he'll definitely be there.

I know he also has a booth for his ministry that's there and available.

And so, yeah, it'll be awesome.

It'll be a great opportunity for folks to come and meet him and engage him and the like.

And when he's in those contexts, it's rare to find him doing many interviews.

But I've seen him do a few from time to time.

The only interview I ever did with Voti was at a G3 conference about five years ago or so.

Yeah, yeah.

And he was walking by.

I had to hit him with a tranquilizer dart and guide him to a chair.

He woke up staring into a microphone.

But anyway, I'm looking forward to it with bated breath.

And I'm always thrilled.

I feel like a kid at Christmas when I go to the G3 conference.

I'm not even exaggerating.

It's something that I look forward to all year long.

And I look forward to being there and I no doubt will be just as

blessed, if not more, than I always am attending and manning my booth at the G3 conference.

Don't forget, folks, the 30 discount code is

G3ISIR.

That's G3ISIR for Iron Troupe and Zion Radio.

And so if you're registering at G3men .org, make sure you use the discount code G3ISIR.

We are discussing, as I mentioned earlier, the A -Biblical theology of public

school education.

And some people might immediately misunderstand that title and think, are they

trying to give biblical proof to support sending your child to the public school system

or, as it is probably more accurately called, the government school system?

Why don't you clarify that?

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt, I appreciate you taking my kind of topic switch as you did.

I've been here as of late.

Chris, I've been really burdened as school has begun in session and swing in most

areas of the country.

As I watch kids get geared up for the fall, get ready to head back to school,

as I look at the landscape of education, as well as I think about

the culture in which we live in, a culture that really embraces

everything that's contrary to a biblical worldview.

There's just great concern.

I had the wonderful opportunity this past summer.

It was in late July to go to a Christian school in West Virginia.

And the name of the school was Emmanuel Christian School.

And they had been doing Christian education to the best of their ability since

1973.

And when you have a school that is 50 years old at

this time, you begin to examine how do they do.

Many Christian schools maybe started out very orthodox in their view, very

connected to Scripture, took very seriously the idea

that education is indeed discipleship, and tried their best to maintain that stand.

But what they found and what many schools like theirs would find themselves wrestling with

is not very different from what we've witnessed happen in seminaries across the country.

There's always this tug and pull as it relates to whether or

not the school is going to maintain a foothold on a

biblical worldview, or if the school is going to capitulate on a number of

different issues in an effort to remain relevant to culture, in an effort to

embrace some of the ideologies that are found in the culture.

So again, as I went to this school and examined what they did, they somehow were

able to hold on to very strict ideas around orthodoxy.

And I was very, very glad to hear that.

They asked me to come in particular because they knew about my history with Just Thinking.

They had heard me talk about issues related to critical race theory and the like.

And they wanted to kind of reemphasize the importance to

maintain the vigilance as it pertains to holding the Scripture and

Scripture being sufficient.

They wanted to maintain their vigilance in that regard and encourage their teachers, many of whom had been with them for

decades, to stay the course.

They're in an area where there's an onslaught of pushback with regard to simple issues,

simple issues like a man is a man and a woman is a woman and a man can't be a woman and a

woman can't be a man.

The ideas around gender fluidity, ideas around critical race

theory.

There's this constant pushback for them to embrace social justice, and

they really care about biblical justice.

They really care about what the Bible has to say about these issues.

As a result, I spent some time in preparation for the talk there looking at

issues around education, thinking about parents who were sending their kids to public schools

and thinking about how should we think about that.

Are we to think biblically about that or do we just do the absolute knee -jerk thing and send our kid

into a public school?

I think Votie does a fantastic job with this as he really challenges us to think about

sending our kids off to Caesar.

And by that he means to government schools.

If we do that, we should not be shocked when they come back, not as Christians but as Romans.

If that's the case, then I think it begs the question that it's imperative that we do

begin as parents, regardless of the decision that you make, think about how you

navigate that from a biblical perspective.

Again, a parent at this event had asked me a question that I thought was germane to this conversation.

It got me to thinking, and as a result, I began writing about this particular subject.

I've got an article that I'm working on getting out.

I thought this would be a great opportunity to talk with you about it and to get some feedback, even from guests who

are rather free.

Are you there, Virgil?

For some reason, I can't hear you.

Okay.

Can you hear me now?

Yes, I hear you perfectly well now.

Good.

I wanted to make sure that I wanted to have the opportunity to kind of flesh this out with you, Chris, and

perhaps some of your audience and talk about these issues as I begin to put pen to paper and

begin writing an article as it relates to this as school begins back in session.

Sure.

In fact, let me give our email address to our listeners right now.

It's ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail

.com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the USA, and only

remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

In fact, what I'm going to do is I'm going to go to our first commercial break right now to prevent me from having to

interrupt you mid -sentence.

And so you already have the email address, folks.

If you want to submit a question so you can join the conversation, it's ChrisArnzen at gmail

.com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Virgil Walker right after these messages from our sponsors.

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On a theme that I've been preaching, teaching, writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the

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I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott

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We're now back with my guest today, Virgil Walker, and we are discussing a biblical theology

of the public school system.

If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

Well, if you could begin with your first element of your discussion today.

Yeah, I would be glad to do that.

I got a really interesting question while I was out giving a particular

lecture, and the question was from a teacher, and the teacher had just kind of

asked, you know, as it relates to education, as a

teacher, as a parent of students, you know, what do I do?

How do I navigate culture, what we're dealing with as it, you know, as it pertains

to education?

My talk, as I kind of laid it out for her, kind of went back to a time period in

1933, and this was a time when, you know, the

turn of the century had already taken place.

We're beginning to feel the impact of the Depression.

Government is beginning to increase in size and scope for very necessary reasons as the

economy takes a downturn, but also some very unnecessary reasons as government begins to kind of

stretch its tentacles into the public sphere in a deeper way.

During that time period, churches primarily were the ones who were responsible for education.

Parents were the ones who were dictating where, you know, where children went to school and

how school was given to them.

It would be a man by the name of J. Gresham Machen who would give

a talk in 1933 at the Educational Convention in Chicago.

Here's what he said, Chris.

I found this very interesting.

He says this, quote, Christian education is to be favored for two reasons.

In the first place, it is important for American liberty.

In the second place, it is important for the propagation of the Christian religion.

These two reasons are not equally important.

Indeed, the latter includes the former as it includes every other legitimate human

interest.

Machen would continue by saying this.

He said we are witnessing in our day a worldwide attack upon the fundamental principles

of civil and religious freedom in some countries.

And he mentions Italy.

He mentions Mussolini's Italy.

He mentions Germany.

He mentions Russia.

He says those countries have actually crushed the system of freedom by

really being completely tyrannical in their approach to a variety of things, not the least of which

being education.

While at the time, he said, Machen said that he believed that Italy, Germany, and Russia were the greatest

foes of freedom, particularly in education, he was also concerned about the

monopolistic government intrusion into American education, end quote.

Now, keep in mind that this this time period was 1933, right?

This is during the fundamentalist modernist controversy.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And so he's looking at culture.

He's noticing the encroaching powers that are that are around the world as it relates to

oppression, as it relates to tyranny.

And the and the first place is that these tyrannical governments and regimes begin to kind of stretch

their influence or express their influences in the area of education.

He would say this.

And I'll stop here.

He says this, quote, The attack upon liberty is nothing new.

He says always there have been tyrants in the world.

Almost always tyranny has begun by being superficially beneficent and

always it is ended by being both superficially and radically cruel.

But while tyranny itself is nothing new, the technique of tyranny has been enormously improved in our

day by the tyranny of the scientific experts.

And that is most crushing.

That is the most crushing tyranny of all.

That tyranny is being exercised most effectively in the field of education.

A monopolistic system of education controlled by the state is far more efficient and

crushing our liberty than the cruder weapons of fire and sword,

end quote.

And so he he recognized that if you want to take down a country, you want to you

want to upend a system of governance that provides

independence and freedom, that the best way to do that would be for government to take

over the control of the education within a certain populace.

And the reason for that is because oftentimes well -intentioned, though government systems might be,

the end result is tyranny.

The end result is control.

The end result is is the erasure of the of the individual of ideas

of thought and more of a conformity for the purpose of making young people in

particular into mindless machines that can be controlled by the powers that be.

Now, I know that that that language, even in using it, sounds as if it's

conspiratorial.

But if we examine what's happening in our culture today with our young people and we look at their

at the fact that the vast majority of them think that socialism is something to be

admired today, the very fact that many of them are are very ambivalent about issues related

to some very basics, gender, sexuality and the like, issues around

race and ethnicity.

We see the lockstep direction that they're taking.

We can look we can point the finger directly at government and government systems and structures and see what's

happening in those spaces.

Now, when we see polls reflecting

the great popularity of socialism amongst young people,

aren't these young people and I will be as clean as possible, full of baloney

because the young people of today are the most materialistic bunch of

idiots that the country has seen.

I don't believe for a minute that these these kids really are socialist.

It's just a way to be hip.

It's a way to rebel against their parents.

It's a way to, you know, just be against

conservatism or what have you.

But these kids would never want to give up the especially if they are in middle

class and upper middle class and wealthy homes, they would never want to give up their financial

freedom and and so on.

Am I right?

Right.

No, you're absolutely right.

It's it's one of those things where, you know, they've received the benefits that

capitalism and freedom have provided.

And as a result, the bubble that they live in, they believe that the rest of the world has the same

experience.

So it's easy to believe that, you know, if we just spread the wealth around and gave everybody an equal

share, that all of us would be equally independently wealthy, or at least or at least

satisfied to the degree that that that we wouldn't have to work anymore.

That we wouldn't have to you know, we wouldn't have to get up and be active in any kind of way

anymore.

And they don't really have any idea that the rest of the world does not live to the degree that

that we do here in America, that many experience here in America.

And that those regimes that have embraced socialism have been some of the most

desperate places in the world by which to live and that people

have endured great harm, great, great tragedy as a

result of living in an environment where socialism was proliferated.

I mean, you don't have to go far.

You can look at Venezuela and see what's happening in that part of the world and other

areas where, again, the condom refrain is, well, that kind of socialism, the kind of socialism

that they want to embrace, that democratic socialism, as AOC would tell you,

is a different kind of socialism.

It's the kind that people vote for, right?

My thought about that is if you embrace poverty at any level, even if you vote for it, it's still poverty

at the end of the day.

But as it pertains to education, you know this because we've witnessed what's happened

in woke circles.

There's been an absolute decline of an

appreciation for America and for American exceptionalism and for what we've

experienced in the way of freedom.

We're told constantly that our forefathers of this country were simply slave owners who cared nothing for

black people, that they never provided a system that had any intention of benefiting anyone who didn't

look like them.

That the ideals that are founded in the Constitution of the United States are simply those

of an oppressor class that would never see fit to

believe that blacks were any more than two -thirds

of a human being.

When you have education that constantly bombards young people with that kind of narrative and those kinds

of ideas, it's easy for them to reject the very economic system that

brought them the freedom to experience those things, which is capitalism, and then for them to embrace an idea that's

actually foreign to them, which is socialism.

Yeah, it was disgusting to not long ago see the leftist outrage

over a school curriculum being introduced in Florida, I believe, where

a part of the curriculum was brought to light how certain

slaves used the gifts that they had to

progress in their status and so on.

Whether it be carpentry or anything else that they were gifted at, and

the left outlashed

against this because anything positive that would dare to be mentioned

about something occurring in the life of a slave or during the slavery period was an abomination to them.

That's just absolutely insane.

Absolutely, it is.

In fact, it was a slave himself, Booker T. Washington, who was the one who said,

cast down your bucket where you are.

That famous quote from Booker T. Washington, if anyone ever has the opportunity to read his book,

Up from Slavery, I personally think it should be required reading for every

American young person.

But you have the story of Booker T. Washington, a man who did not know what his name was,

had grown up under slavery, and had made something of himself to the point

where he would eventually be a consultant to presidents of the United

States.

How did he do that?

Well, he did that because he recognized that there was absolute value from

what he learned as a slave as it pertained to hard work and doing

a full day's work in the time that he was in

after slavery, before wage.

He saw great benefit in that.

He mentioned in his book that many slaves, as soon as slavery was over, they

really wanted to separate themselves from any kind of labor, any kind of hard work

or labor.

And so they began to gravitate toward areas of jobs and the like, whether it

was preaching at a predominantly black church or teaching in some way, shape, or form

as many of the slaves began to learn to read.

The idea was, as long as I don't have to work with my hands, that's a better job.

That was looked upon as the better job.

Whereas Booker T. Washington said, hey, I'm going to cast my bucket down where I am.

I'm going to figure out what I have, the skill sets I have, and use those to the greatest advantage so that I can

advance forward.

That's good teaching.

It's irrelevant where it comes from.

It doesn't matter if the curriculum in the Florida schools is promoting those ideas or

if it's the all black Booker T. Washington High School that I was next to there

in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Who it comes from is irrelevant.

The message is still a great message.

And his message in particular is one that all students should pick up a book and begin reading about.

But those are the kinds of things that I think about as it pertains to education.

We've got to think about what's being taught.

We've got to think about what would Scripture tell us?

How would it inform us about these issues?

How should we proceed as we see culture absolutely doing the opposite,

doing everything counter antithetical to a biblical worldview?

We have a question from an anonymous listener who asks, don't we have to be very careful

about not vilifying parents who send their children to public schools,

surely because of the fact that they cannot afford private Christian

education?

They cannot provide homeschooling for one reason or another, and there might not even be Christian schools

anywhere near where they live.

Yeah, I think that's a great, great question.

I think we have the tendency to think of things in a

zero sum way in that if I'm promoting Christian education, if I'm

promoting classical Christian education, if I'm promoting a

departure from a public school system that's absolutely degraded anything known

to be education, that then the person who is the villain in that

is the person who can't afford.

Whereas my encouragement would be, let's figure out ways for

more people to take full advantage of the best education that they can.

Let's have parents who are in that position figure out ways to be

active at school board meetings, to be active in a church, to

figure out ways that the church can provide additional help, resources, and they themselves,

as poor parents, figure out a way to open up the Word of God.

That would be the simplest thing that they could do.

Open up the Word of God at home and begin properly educating their children on a biblical

worldview.

That would be step one in that process.

And we also have a question from Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania.

Is it ever appropriate for a Christian to teach in a public school setting?

I think that's a fantastic question.

And my response, because I get asked that often, my response to that is

it really depends.

And as much as I like to have clear lines about specific issues, I really

think that's a fair response in this way.

I do believe that every Christian teaching in a public school is going to be in a position to

have to, at one point or another, make a decision.

There's going to have to be a line in the sand that's drawn to say, I will go no further.

And by that, I mean I, as a Christian teacher in a public school, will not teach

that there are more than two genders.

I, as a Christian in a public school, will not teach the idea

that two men getting together and calling themselves married

is indeed marriage.

I, as a Christian, will not violate my conscience and my Christian belief to say that young

boys can become young girls or that young girls can become young boys.

I do believe that there will come a point in every area of

education in our country where Christians who find themselves in public schools are going to

have to take a stand.

Many of them had to do this as it related to COVID and the taking of vaccines.

Again, I think there's some instances where some people can justify taking the vaccine, some could not, and

others were willing to lose their jobs.

I think that any Christian who finds themselves in a public education system are going to

have to come to the point where they're willing to make the decision and then trust God for the outcome.

In other words, at the point that the line is crossed, they will have to make a decision to remove themselves and then look for

employment in a variety of other ways.

Again, I think that really provides a wonderful opportunity for them in the same way

that churches that were open during the pandemic provided a wonderful opportunity for them.

Many churches who early on followed the government rule and said, okay, I'm going to find out what

this thing is, much like our dear friends out in California did at Grace Community Church with

Dr. John MacArthur.

Initially, they closed the doors and said, we'll abide by what the government tells us about this issue.

Then after some time, as they did their research and they realized they're not being told the whole truth,

they decided to open their doors and deal with the consequences and repercussions.

What ended up taking place was that it benefited them.

In other words, there were other believers, other Christians who made the decision that they wanted to obey

God rather than government.

They made their way to a church willing to deal with the consequences.

Many churches around the country who did that actually grew in size.

They saw that, A, the pastors, the elders of that church took very seriously what

God's word said, that Jesus Christ is the Lord of the church.

Jesus Christ is the groom who has a

bride, which is the church, and he is in charge.

God himself is in charge and is indeed sovereign.

We have to believe that too in the area of education, that it is God who is the one, who

is the way, the truth, and the life, that we are indeed going to follow him, that we are going to indeed

stand upon the truth of Scripture and deal with the consequences as they come.

My charge would be, I think we too, if we follow God's way, God's word,

that we'll find great benefit in ways that we had never really known were available to

us before.

That would be what I would share with any teacher who's a Christian who finds themselves in a

public education system.

Excellent.

We have an anonymous listener again who says, Don't you think

the burden is often upon, I think that the person meant to say

should be upon, the Christian schools themselves to offer

education to children at an affordable price?

That's a question for each school to deal with.

One of the things that I believe that parents are

able to do, parents are able to open up the word of

God and begin sharing Scripture with those that they love at

home.

I'm a big firm believer in having a time of Scripture reading,

of prayer, of singing of songs there in the home for parents.

Before we push the button too quickly on requiring others to

do something for us, Christian schools should do this for us.

We should have churches do this for us.

Before we begin to push the ball forward in those areas, we have to begin asking ourselves, what can we

do for ourselves that would help us to properly disciple our

family?

I think the very beginning of that is indeed family worship.

I think that's an important place to start, to begin.

Allow God to open doors for you that advance that cause,

that put your children in places and spaces that make sense.

Begin having conversations with schools that you think would be beneficial for your child to attend.

Look for ways, not always for the free, but look for ways that you can contribute because education

does cost.

I think, in fact, where I was this past summer in West Virginia, they had made

it a law that the money attached to the child paid in

taxes actually goes with the child.

Parents, rather than simply sending a big check to the government and paying for

education at a public school, there's a portion of their money that they could take with them and invest

in a private Christian school of their choice.

I think things like that, governmental policy programs like that, could be a solution for

many other spaces and places.

I'm fully aware, as I deal in the conference space and church

spaces and other places, that all the things that we believe need to be free

do cost someone something.

We all have to take that into great consideration and figure out what are the best ways that we could take advantage of

unique opportunities that provide value to each and every one of us.

And, of course, scholarship funds are a perfect answer,

especially when you may have congregants in a particular church

that are of a wide spectrum of financial brackets, income

brackets.

So, you have some very wealthy people or upper middle class that may want to contribute to

a fund where the poor families can send their kids to the Christian school.

Absolutely, absolutely.

I think those are unique opportunities.

And again, I want to place the burden of education

where it belongs, and that's squarely on the parents.

It really does.

And as difficult as that sounds, that's the truth.

And we are going to our midway break right now.

If you would like to submit a question to Virgil Walker, send it to ChrisArnson at gmail .com, C -H -R

-I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least, city and state and country of residence.

Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

I remind you folks, please be patient with us because the middle break is longer than the other breaks because Grace Life Radio,

90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because the FCC

requires of them to localize this program geographically to Lake City,

Florida, where they're located.

So they do so with their own public service announcements and other local things in the middle of the show while we

simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So use this time wisely.

Please write down as much of the contact information as you can for as many of our advertisers as you can so

that you can more frequently and successfully respond to our advertisers.

And we hope that means you will, on occasion at least, buy their products, use their services and visit their

churches.

But when you can't do any of that, please do one thing that every Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener can definitely

do.

Contact our advertisers and simply say thank you for sponsoring Iron Sharpens Iron

Radio.

That should go a long way to convince our advertisers that their money is not being spent in vain

and that their sharing of their wealth with us has been a good investment, even if it just

means the nourishing of souls.

So please thank our sponsors for advertising on our program and funding us with

this urgently needed source of income.

And as I said, send your questions to Virgil Walker, to chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

We'll be right back.

Please do not go away.

The Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society presents The Future of Christendom 2023, The Gospel at

War, September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, featuring Dr. James

White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian,

A Personal Journey of Faith and Sexual Identity, the debate topic.

Is gay Christian a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's Church?

So come join us for the 6th Future of Christendom Conference.

The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day Saturday,

with an invitation to the Sunday morning worship service of the Independence Reform Bible Church.

This will be a weekend packed with practical teaching, with a theme of the Gospel at War in many areas of our culture, including

government schools, the Supreme Court, missions, feminism, and even the church pulpits.

Head to futureofchristendom .org.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I

are heading down to Atlanta, Georgia again for the G3 National Conference.

That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd, on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching,

writing about, and defending in live public debates for most of my life, the sovereignty of God.

I'll be joined on the speaking roster by Steve Lawson, Voti Baucom, Paul Washer, Virgil Walker, Scott

Anuel, and Josh Bice, founder of G3 Ministries.

And there's more great news.

Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio can get you a 30 discount off the registration

fee.

Go to g3min .org, that's g3min .org, and enter promo

code G3ISIR.

That's G3ISIR for the 30 % discount.

Chris Arnzen, I look forward to seeing you all Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd at the G3

National Conference in Atlanta, Georgia on the sovereignty of God.

Make sure you stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while

you're there.

Go to g3min .org and enter promo code G3ISIR for your

30 discount off the registration fee.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa of Grace Church at Franklin here in the

beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ.

And, of course, the end for which we strive is the glory of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes,

or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will

join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org.

That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing is

Daniel P. Patafuco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society.

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Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio on the air.

I'm Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love,

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It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reform Baptist Church

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I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing

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Tell the folks at Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa

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Getting a driver's license, running a cash register, flipping burgers, passing sixth grade.

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But do you know what requires no training at all?

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My name is A .M. Brewster.

I'm the president of Truth, Love, Parent, and host of its award -winning podcast.

I've been a biblical family counselor since the early 2000s.

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their homes.

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We serve God by equipping dads and moms to be the ambassador parents God called and created them to be.

We produce free parenting resources, train church leaders, and offer biblical counseling so that the next generation of

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Hi, this is John Sampson, pastor of King's Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnzen and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise, and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

Knowing this, it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry in prayer and

in finances.

I'm pleased to do so, and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron financially.

Would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at ironsharpensironradio .com, where you can click support.

That's ironsharpensironradio .com.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been

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Every day at thousands of community centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions,

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We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ

at 631 -385 -8333.

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Or visit liyfc .org.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

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The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

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We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

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Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And please don't forget, folks, solid -ground -books .com, as I've been saying the last few

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And if you have ordered from them before, if you're able to financially, please order the

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And this is going to help Iron Sharpens Iron Radio as well because, obviously,

solid -ground -books .com depends on finances coming in in

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They are a primary, a premier, a vital sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

So, by helping them, you're going to be helping us.

And keep in mind, you're not just going to be doing solid -ground -books .com a favor by

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.com an enormous favor of incalculable value because they bring back into print and also publish

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So, please go to solid -ground -books .com today, purchase generously, and

mention Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Before I return to Virgil Walker, we have some very important announcements that we have to make.

If you really love this show, folks, and you don't want it to disappear from the airwaves, please go to

ironsharpensironradio .com, click support, and then click to donate now.

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion.

And if you prefer snail mail, sending in a physical check to a physical address the old -fashioned way, there will be a

physical address that also appears on your screen when you click support at ironsharpensironradio

.com, where you can mail your checks made payable to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

If you want to advertise with us, whether it's your church, parachurch organization, business,

special event you want to promote, whatever it is, as long it is compatible with what I believe, we would

love to help you launch an ad campaign as quickly as possible because we're just as much in urgent need of your

advertising dollars as we are in your donations.

So go to, if you're going to advertise with us, send us an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

chrisarnsen at gmail .com, and put advertising in the subject line.

And always remember that I don't want my listeners cutting into the finances that you have set aside

to give to your church on the Lord's Day, the church where you remember.

Please don't give your own church less money than you normally do because you want to give us a gift.

And also, if you're really struggling to survive and make ends meet, please wait until you're back on your feet and more financially

stable before you send us a financial gift.

As desperate as we are to receive your financial help, as urgent

as we need that help, I never want anybody giving their own church less money than they normally do or

falling way behind in your own bills and taking food off of your dinner table as a result of giving us

a gift.

The two things that are clear about our finances in the Bible is that we are to provide for our church and our family,

and providing for this radio show is obviously not a command.

But if you love the show and you do have extra funds above and beyond your ability to provide for church and family, you

have extra money collecting interest in the bank, extra money for benevolent, recreational, and trivial purposes, if you

really love the show and don't want it to disappear, please give to us.

I know that there are people who have been listening to this program going back to 2005 who claim to love it and have

never given.

And I'm just wondering why.

So please help us if you can.

Iantrepiddesignradio .com, click Support, and then click Click to Donate Now.

Also, I want to remind you about the three -day conference coming up here in Pennsylvania, in Lancaster, to be more

specific, and even more specifically, Mannheim, Pennsylvania.

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries is going to be conducting a three -day conference on the theme,

The Gospel at War.

This is a conference of the Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society.

I helped arrange this conference for them.

The actual conference is called The Future of Christendom.

And on top of the conference, they are going to be having a

debate between Dr. James R. White and a Christian who identifies as a gay

Christian.

That's Dr. Gregory Coles.

And the theme of that debate will be, Is Gay Christian a Biblically Acceptable

Identity for a Member of Christ's Church?

The conference is Friday through Sunday, the 15th through the 17th of September.

The debate itself is on Saturday, September 16th, 3 .30 to 6 .30 p .m.

If you want to register and get the best price possible, I urge you to do so quickly at futureofchristendom

.org, futureofchristendom .org.

And by the way, on Saturday, free refreshments and a free lunch will be provided to

you.

Also, if you are not a member of a Christ -honoring, biblically faithful,

theologically sound, doctrinally solid church like Praise Mill Baptist Church in

Douglasville, Georgia, well, I'm urging you to send me an email to chrisarnson at

gmail .com.

But I need a church in the subject line.

I have extensive lists spanning the globe of biblically faithful churches.

And I've helped many people in our audience in all parts of the planet Earth find churches, sometimes even

within just a couple of minutes from where they live.

And that may be possibly you too.

So send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you can send in a question to Virgil Walker on a biblical theology of

public school education.

That's chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

And we have a questioner.

We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who says, if a

Christian schoolteacher does not need to compromise anything he believes, wouldn't his

use at a public school be even more needed as far as being a witness for Christ and

using his gifts there?

Yeah, I think.

Can you hear me all right?

Oh, yeah, I hear you perfectly.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great question.

And again, I go back to the same answer and say it really depends.

I think there's some context where a Christian could be a light and, you

know, add value, promote their worldview, their Christian worldview in

those spaces and places.

Primarily, though, what we see in most instances is that there's such darkness

in those places and spaces that a Christian really finds themselves

needing to compromise.

I think one of the things that really brought this to light, Chris, was the, you know, unfortunately, I spend

quite a bit of time on Twitter and seeing, you know, Twitter channels

like Libs for TikTok on Twitter and watching some of the

really crazy things that teachers are trying to express to children,

prepubescent children about their own sexuality and their own gender identity.

And when you see that to the degree that you do, the wonder is, would

we not be better off as Christians if we simply left those spaces altogether

and created spaces where true believers could really stand to be the light

that they need to be, could truly be honest about what they feel, what they believe and

promote a Christian worldview?

Could they stay in those places and spaces and be a light?

Absolutely.

Light definitely conquers darkness, but I think each individual has

got to determine, A, the line, like I mentioned early on, that they'll have to draw in an

effort to stay sane in those places.

And B, I think it behooves us to ask the question whether or not we would be better off

separating altogether and figuring out ways to educate children, because what we're talking about here is not a

person who's made the decision to go be a missionary in a foreign country.

We're talking about a person who, for the most part, is not theologically trained and educated, but

simply has a desire to teach students, not fight battles.

And if that's their primary goal rather than fighting the powers that be, it may be, again, may be

in their interest to find a place where they could do that in a way that's God -honoring.

We have Pamela in Brewster, New York, who asks, have you and or

Daryl written specifically on the subject of education?

Yeah, you know, I, both of us talk often with one another about

the topic, about the subject.

I have just, I think this past summer has really kind of opened my eyes as

graduations began to happen.

We have been getting more and more calls to go into those spaces and to speak,

preach, and teach.

I got a call the other day from the University of Georgia here in my home

state and was asked to answer questions about issues related to climate change and

biblical worldview.

That is really going against the current tide of colleges and universities to

actually invite a conservative onto the campus to counteract the lies

of liberalism and leftism.

Yeah, and so, you know, I'm now in conversations that I haven't been in before

because of, you know, God has truly blessed our platforms, platforms like Just Thinking, Chris,

your platform at Iron Sharpens Iron.

And so, you know, because of that, people who have not heard are beginning to hear and are

asking questions and they reached out email and we've since had conversations.

I've actually invited some of the professors to the G3 conference.

I'm hopeful that they'll attend and with the hope that we'll continue an ongoing dialogue

about education and about the need to get back to truth.

Some of those teachers who are our Christian are just absolutely frustrated, but they've been beaten down

for so long and have capitulated on so many issues.

And again, not knowingly, not in a big way, you know, they didn't wake up yesterday and

go from zero to 100.

It's been a very slow process and they realize as they begin to hear maybe Daryl

and me on a podcast or us on another platform, they realize how

far they've gone.

It's kind of like the frog in the boiling water, right?

Doesn't really know that the heat is turning up and slowly and slowly and slowly as each degree turns.

You know, he didn't know that he's actually actually being cooked.

It's very similar in that in that sense with a lot of these educators.

And so we're getting opportunities to speak into those those spaces and places that we look

forward to that.

And, you know, I'm hopeful in many instances that that will begin to see a change.

By the way, I have guest recommendations for you for just thinking

a couple of guys that are Christians and thorough experts in the whole area of climate

change.

The first is Calvin Beisner.

I don't know if that name rings a bell with you.

He's been a Calvin has been a Christian apologist for decades.

He used to be fairly regularly featured on the John Ankerberg show in the 80s and 90s.

Oh, yeah.

And today he is the national spokesman for the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of

Creation.

And he does a lot of excellent work, work debunking the climate change

hysteria.

And also Gregory Wright Stone, who's been a guest on this program as well.

He has written a book called Inconvenient Facts, the science that Al Gore doesn't want you to know.

And they've both been guests on my show, if anybody wants to look up those names in my archive.

So and in regard to education in general, another very dear friend of

mine, Dr. Ernest J. Zara.

He has written an excellent book.

Actually, he's written more than one book on this issue.

And the the book in particular that's sticking out in my mind

that he has written is titled From Character to Color, the impact of critical race theory on

American education.

I strongly recommend that book.

And also for our listeners to listen to those interviews with Ernest Zara, Z as in Zebra, A -R -R

-A.

So I just thought I'd throw that out there.

And those are great.

I'm looking forward to checking some some of that out.

I do recognize, again, as people are beginning to reach out that there is that there is

a hunger, especially with believers, to stand on biblical truth.

And again, some of them just need the encouragement of hearing someone stand on truth

to do so.

And so that that that's definitely my encouragement.

I'm hopeful that more opportunities like this will present themselves.

The person who asked the initial question asked if Daryl and me, if Daryl and I had

written on on the topic on the subject of education.

I mentioned that because, again, after the summer kind of tour, so to speak, I

again, this has been on my radar screen.

I've been reading extensively about the subject, reading a variety of different books in a

number of different spaces and places.

And so I'll begin that process as the fall kind of continues to commence

when opportunities about about specifics in culture, be

it a particular news newsworthy issue begins to rear its head.

I'll have some things in queue and be ready to connect the dots with that and and the like.

But for me at this point, it's a lot of blog articles.

I'm actually submitting those to some of the professors that I mentioned here in Georgia with

the hope that that they'll provide some feedback and that will begin.

What will hopefully be a productive and ongoing dialogue about these issues.

OK, before I go to any listener question, would you like to go to another step in your discussion?

No, I think I think I think I think that'll do it for now.

Yeah.

OK, well, we have Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania,

and Susan Margaret says, what advice do you have to

grandparents when they are trying to make sure their children send

their own children to public?

I'm sorry, to private Christian schools.

Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's challenging.

You know, I wish I had the answer for that.

You know, primary role and responsibility of children is definitely parents.

Grandparents are just such a wonderful addition to to the life of the entirety of

the family.

And I think every opportunity that presents itself where where grandparents can can participate and be a

part of that educational process is incredibly important and greatly beneficial.

At the end of the day, you know, the decision of a primary education would be that of the parents.

But my thought would be I don't know many children, you know, who have who have who

have children of their own, who wouldn't want to take advantage of a grandparent who says,

listen, you know, if you if you if you go, if you make the decision to to send our

grandchild to X, Y, Z Christian school, we'll pay for it.

You know, it would be a rare situation where where I would think that that that that

that young young people wouldn't take full advantage of an opportunity like that.

Anyone pushing back against that?

There are probably other issues at play.

Maybe maybe, you know, the children of the of the grandparents haven't, you know, haven't accepted

Christ.

Maybe they don't have a relationship or walk with the Lord.

In that instance, it's of primary importance to begin praying for the entirety of the family and with the hope that they'll

come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

I think that would be that would be primary for sure.

We have Thurmond in Port St. Lucy, Florida, who asks, have you done

much investigation about classical Christian education?

I know that Chris Arnson of Iron Trip and Zion has had several programs promoting it.

Yes, I have.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I absolutely think that is the best.

You know, that's the best education.

The great I mean, in fact, I quoted earlier from from from Jay Gresham Machen.

And again, you're talking about someone who who received a classical Christian education and promoted

that at Princeton Theological Seminary.

Of course, they are far from Princeton is far from those days where they

embraced a richly biblical worldview.

But at the end of the day, I think that is the absolute best form of education.

What it does is it encourages the idea of thinking, right,

thinking for oneself.

It doesn't tell you exactly what to think, but it definitely shows you how to think, how to think logically about things, how to

how to make proper deductions of things, how to reason, how to argue, how to

properly debate, how to properly engage in all of the ideas that

that that are that are part of our world.

And so, yeah, I'm a big proponent of classical Christian education wherever you can find it.

We are here at G3 are working toward putting something together in the way of of of a

classical education with with regard to college.

And so we've got a number of things in the works that we're looking down the down the down the lines with and

that we're working on here.

But that's what we advocate.

And so, yeah, it's the best.

I think it's the best way to educate a young person.

Yes, and I'm going to be very careful here not to identify the school until it is

100 percent established.

But I've heard very promising news that a Christian school, a classical

Christian school that I'm very familiar with, may very likely at this point, it's not

100 percent, but may very likely in 2025 have Votie Baucom as their fundraising

banquet speaker.

So I will keep you all updated on that and I will let you know the exact name of this school

if and when that is 100 percent confirmed.

Let's see here.

We have R .J. in White

Plains, New York and R .J. in White Plains asks, Should

you ever pollute another school with

your child if your child is out of control, unrepentant and a problem maker?

Shouldn't these kinds of children be homeschooled without disrupting the lives of other

children?

I think that's a great question to think through.

I do believe that most schools have some kind of

disciplinary process by which to manage these young people, these children.

But yeah, at the end of the day, it's the primary responsibility of parents to

ensure that their kids are not unruly or not

disruptive, actually are able to engage in education.

But again, I'll go back to this, Chris.

And I think that the primary nature of the setup of education as it's

currently designed is not conducive for young boys in particular.

It works for young girls who are a little bit more demure, who are a little bit more kind of

willing to kind of sit and engage and think and listen.

We're young boys who are hyperactive and are antsy and ready to kind of rip and run.

The current system set up is one that's not designed in a favorable way for them.

At the same time, that doesn't negate the need for parents to properly train

their children.

I think every Lord's Day is an opportunity for us to do so.

I'd even argue that a lot of what we see in the way of Sunday school education, the way that

we put kids in kind of a Sunday school environment where they're not required to sit for

any lengthy period of time, that they're always standing, jumping, running, bumping, doesn't properly train them, even

boys, to develop the discipline of sitting down and listening and gaining

and learning information.

And so I do think there's a give and take there.

And that's something that at the end of the day ultimately resides with

parents.

Yes, and I don't know if you're talking about yourself, a

listener, or another parent or

another set of parents, but I will make it a point to pray for those parents and their child,

whoever that may be.

Now, let me ask a question of my own as far as, you know, we hear these

nightmarish things going on in the government school system when it comes to

not only teaching the equality of

homosexuality with biblical sexuality that is only between

one man and one woman in the bonds of marriage, but you

even have pornography, homosexual pornography.

Now, when we see these things on the news, especially in the conservative outlets,

because normally your mainstream media doesn't want to inform the general public about

this stuff.

But is this an evidence that this stuff

is really permeating the entire system?

Are these rare exceptions?

Is there hysteria in the conservative community over these things that are not as widespread as we think?

You know, what do you know about all of that?

Yeah, you know, I think those are great questions.

And whether it's the LGBTQIA agenda, whether it's critical race theory, which is now

termed social emotional learning, that's kind of the new nomenclature for what

was CRT.

There's a different way that they're addressing it.

What we're seeing in culture is just reflective of the devastating impact of what I and others, in fact, James Lindsay coined

the term the Marxification of education.

The Marxification of education.

He has a book by the same title.

What he does is he examines all of education, the

process of pedagogy, what they're teaching, how they're teaching, and that framework.

And what's happening in schools, whether it's the overt teaching of

the gender wars of the LGBTQ, or if it's something muted, all of it is designed

to create the oppressed and oppressor groups.

So, for example, if you're in a classroom, a math class, and perhaps

you're looking at maybe a word picture that challenges

you to think about math.

Remember, you would have these stories that would say, OK, Sally has five apples, right?

Mark has six apples.

And then Joey, who's an African -American, has three apples.

The question then becomes not how many apples do they all have combined?

The question then becomes why does Joey, the African -American, have fewer apples than the other two?

And so now it's never about mathematics.

The idea with the Marxification of education is the whole thought process of creating victim

classes so that whatever the subject, whether it's mathematics, whether it's economics, whether

it's social studies, whether it's geography, whatever science you can think of, all

of it is designed for the purpose of pointing you to oppressed and oppressor groups.

And so, again, you ask the question, you know, is this everywhere?

Are we seeing this everywhere or is this kind of in some big places and maybe some

smaller rule settings where that's not the case?

All of education has taken on this perspective, this point of view.

And so you're seeing it everywhere.

It's, again, shrouded under the language of social, emotional learning.

Public school systems have absolutely just exchanged the whole idea of education

in favor of just social deconstructionism.

And their aim is just reengineering, the reengineering, rather, of a progressivist

utopia created in their own image rather than one that's subject to God's natural order and design.

So you see it everywhere.

Now, in your observations, have you ever come to a

conclusion or even an educated guess as to why this

field of employment, meaning the education system,

school teachers and so on, why is this such a magnet to leftists?

Yeah, that's a great question.

I think the issue there is the left years ago and the late 30s,

early 60s saw the opportunity that is indeed education.

They knew that leftist ideology would not be something that the general public,

especially one that's steeped in a Judeo -Christian biblical worldview, would

embrace.

They knew that the only way forward for them would be to invade the

institutions, right, to invade education, to invade

the justice arena, which is why now what you hear with the leftist

agenda is, you know, we've got to get into the judiciary.

We've got to stack the Supreme Court.

Why?

Because they know that the average citizen is not going to vote in favor of that which negatively

impacts them as an individual for the purpose of the collective growing stronger.

We are too individualistic here in America, even still, though the collective is gaining ground.

But what's taken place is the halls of education were the primary means by which the

left saw the opportunity.

So if you look at any of our post -secondary educational institutions, you look at any of the

colleges and universities across the United States, the predominant

ideological framework is leftist ideology.

And so it's no wonder that students fall in line with that, with those ideas as a result.

By the way, I found out something really shocking and alarming when I interviewed Pete

Hegseth of Fox News.

I had him on the program last year to discuss his book, Battle for

the American Mind, Uprooting a Century of Miseducation.

The origins of the Pledge of Allegiance, most patriotic,

conservative Americans love that pledge and want that pledge to remain in the schools

and so on.

It actually it actually began as a Marxist tool to

replace God with the flag.

And in the original pledge, one nation under God was not included in the pledge.

And I can't remember.

I can't remember if it was Thomas Dewey specifically, but it was definitely that era.

Yeah.

If it were if it were Dewey, I would not be surprised.

Yeah.

And if anybody wants to listen to that program, just type in Hegseth, H -E -G -S -E

-T -H into the search engine at Iron Trip and Zion Radio dot com.

And that interview will come up.

You'll find it quite fascinating.

We're going to our final break right now.

And if anybody has any questions, I would suggest strongly that you send them immediately because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com.

Chris Arnzen at Gmail dot com.

We'll be right back with Virgil Walker.

Don't go away.

The Mid -Atlantic Reformation Society presents the future of Christendom 2023.

The Gospel at War, September 15th to the 16th in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, featuring

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

We are excited to be including a formal debate in this year's conference.

Dr. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries will be debating Dr. Gregory Coles, author of Single Gay Christian,

a personal journey of faith and sexual identity.

The debate topic is gay Christian, a biblically acceptable identity for a member of Christ's church.

So come join us for the sixth future of Christendom conference.

The event will take place at Spooky Nook Sports in Mannheim, Pennsylvania, and will run from Friday evening through all day Saturday,

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James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

I'm very excited to announce that my longtime friend, Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and I

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That's Thursday, September 21st through Saturday the 23rd, on a theme that I have been preaching, teaching,

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Well, Virgil, I would like you to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about

this very important theme of the public school education system.

Yeah, I think it's imperative that as believers in Christ, we

don't automatically assume that the best thing for our children is indeed

public education, and that we think about how we're going to

educate our children and think about it through the lens of a biblical worldview.

Many people are in situations and circumstances and financial situations where a

high -level Christian education is not a possibility.

And it's with that in mind that we need to think, what are our alternatives?

What can we do?

We know that this secular school system, this humanistic school system that

we see in every area of the country is promoting that which is

antithetical to a biblical worldview.

And as believers in Christ, we have got to think about what it means to educate, equip, train,

and encourage the young people given under our care.

I think churches also have to think through these issues with great care

about how to help believers that are in their care

navigate this process.

At the same time, at the end of the day, the total

responsibility relies on parents, and I think we just need to do a better job.

We have to recognize that we are indeed in a battle, and that the battle that we're in is a battle for truth,

and that as a result, we have to declare that truth in the public square, and it begins with our

children.

And that's kind of the message I believe that's incredibly important for us to think through, to

think about, and to be prepared to give an answer for how we're choosing to properly

educate our kids.

And I think a good way to think about this is for parents who right now

might be thinking it is relatively harmless to send their kids to public

schools.

Just imagine you have neighbors, and the couple who have their own kids,

they are 180 degrees opposite from you or to you

in regards to their religious ideas.

They were ideology, and they were to say to you, when your

children are in our home, we are going to act as if we are their parents and you are not.

We are going to teach them things that contradict your beliefs.

We're going to mock your beliefs, and we're going to be

involving your children in things that we are going to do without your permission or knowledge.

And we're going to tell them it is not necessary for you to ask their permission involving

certain things that we are going to involve your children in.

You'd say, are you out of your mind?

I would never let my kids go over to that person's house.

Well, that's exactly what the public school system is doing.

Right, right.

And they've got plenty of time to do it.

They've got eight hours a day, six to eight hours a day, depending upon where you are in the country, to

indoctrinate your children in that belief system.

And so, man, we've got to think about these things.

These are incredibly important things to think through.

Amen.

Well, I want to remind our listeners, please register for the G3 conference, if you haven't already, at g3men

.org.

G3men .org.

Use promo code G3ISIR to get a 30 percent discount off the registration

fee.

That's the Iron Trip and Zion Radio promo code G3ISIR.

And I want to remind you also, if you live in Douglasville,

Georgia, or if you are traveling through there, or if you have family, friends and loved ones who live in or near there, go to

PraiseMill .com.

PraiseMill .com, the website for Praise Mill Baptist Church of Douglasville, Georgia.

And also, I want to remind you about the website to register for the upcoming

three -day conference and debate featuring Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries in Lancaster,

Pennsylvania.

That is a conference and a debate on the theme, Is Gay Christian a

Biblically Acceptable Identity for a Member of Christ's Church?

The conference is Friday through Sunday, September 15th through the 17th.

The debate itself is on Saturday, September 16th, 3 .30 p .m. to 6 .30 p .m.

Go to futureofchristendom .org, futureofchristendom .org.

Thank you so much, Virgil, for doing such an outstanding job as you always do.

I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

than you are a sinner.