Children's Church or Children in Church?

Welcome to the Laborer's Podcast. Thank you for watching tonight. We're going to be talking about children in church or children's church.

Which should we do? Stick with us. Welcome to the Laborer's Podcast which is a part of the

Truth in Love Network. Join us as together we strive to grow up together in all things into Christ.

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Now let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast. What's up guys?

How you doing? I'm doing good. The comment lines for you guys who are watching are open.

Ask a question. Let us know you're there. Say hello. We'd love to hear from you. Let's get three things out of the way first and try to do them quickly so we can get into the topic at hand.

First of all, we want to welcome our newest laborer, Randy McCoy. Randy, welcome to the

Laborer's Podcast. Welcome to the Truth in Love Network. We're glad to have you. Thank you.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Happy to be here. Briefly tell us about yourself. I am the associate pastor of a church here in Florida.

Church in the glades, not by the glades. Church in the glades. I also have a podcast or YouTube channel called

The Truth Seekers with Randy McCoy. I just go into scriptures. Sometimes I call out false teachers.

I share my sermons on there as well. I'm married for going on 14 years.

I have a seven -year -old that is going on 17. So yeah.

Beautiful. The second thing that I wanted to tackle before we get into tonight's topic is any thoughts on the conference that we just got back from?

From you guys that watched at home, you can leave a comment. Or you guys that spoke and were there.

I'm glad I got through it. That's all I'm going to say. But I enjoyed it. Good deal.

It was great. He's the token cessationist in the room with all the

Muppets around him singing and dancing. Pretty great meme,

I'm not gonna lie. It made me chuckle a good bit when I found that. I was like, that is perfect.

But yeah, it was an interesting picture of unity to have different shades, different groups, different preferred isms, if you will, all under one roof, worshiping the same

God, preaching the same gospel. It was very edifying for me to see that displayed.

I also know that just like last year, we can expect that coming back from the conference, we're gonna hit the ground running.

Both with things we want to do with the network and also with spiritual warfare. That we're gonna come back, and it's gonna get challenging in a lot of ways.

I can imagine you guys are probably in the same boat. But I know that coming back, it's been a rough transition back into regular life, if you will.

But it was a very refreshing time, and so I feel like I'm not necessarily able, but equipped for it.

I was just gonna say, it was just really cool to meet you guys in person. Because, you know,

I'm used to just seeing you on a screen. I mean, except Randy. Randy lives here in Florida, so we've seen each other.

He's taller than he looks online. Yeah, he is tall.

He is tall. Yeah, he's tall. Well, we've got one guy that might be taller than me, right?

What's his name? Dwayne. He is, what, was he 6 '8", right?

Or 6 '6"? I don't remember. I can't remember. I'm 6 '5", so I've been downgraded to second tallest in the group.

I tell everybody I'm 5 '10". That's what my license say. I just want to echo what

Tyler just said about preaching and the unity between everybody and the unity of preaching.

We were all preaching the same Holy Spirit, both cessationist and continuationist.

Some people, I believe, think that can't happen, but that happened, and I thought it was a beautiful thing.

Yeah, agreed. I felt like it was over with really fast. Didn't anybody else feel like it was a whirlwind?

Well, you and Tyler preached 30 -minute sermons, man. Of course it was fast for you. I'll tell you what, though.

It was like a blast from a fire hose, and then you got to digest it during the downtime.

It was good stuff. I enjoyed the short ones, because you got hit in the face, and then you got to just breathe with it for a little bit.

It was good stuff. Well, here's the thing, and I like this about it, and I said something about it at the roundtable after one of the days.

Might have been Saturday. I like how nobody tried to compete.

That's the word I'm going to use. Probably not supposed to use that word, but let's be real. You've been to conferences.

I've been to conferences online, and there's this. I'm a competitive coach, and there's a part of me that feels like...

Hey, John, you're muffled. Oh, I apologize. Yeah, I can't hear you. Is that better?

That's better. Much better. All right, so there's a part of me that feels like as competitive as I am in some areas that I want to try to,

I don't know, put my best foot forward and try to make sure that I don't look like a complete nincompoop in front of everybody, and you have to kind of...

Something you said that morning, I believe it was you said it, Brother Robin. If it wasn't you, then

I apologize, but you said something to the effect of making sure that what you say is not trying to just sound like a good sermon, but is legitimately led of the

Holy Spirit. And I know that I sort of botched that up, but that's what I heard you saying, whatever the words you said may not have been.

And I was thinking as I was there, I've got all these notes on this computer, and I wanted to try to tie some things together that I thought would be really good, helpful points for everybody.

But then I said, you know what? That might just be me trying to just preach the house down.

Why don't I just give them the point, the only point that I really want to make and step away from it?

And then Brother Tyler and it was Brother Dan, I believe, wound up actually preaching part of the points that I wanted.

I said, how about that? So I think it was great. So I left the pulpit thinking that I had not really accomplished what

I wanted to accomplish, but my brothers picked up my slack, and I think that's what the church looks like sometimes. I think you're exactly right because what happens is that the

Holy Spirit does what he wants to do by using us to do what he's called us to do. So even if we drop something, others pick it up.

And if, say, something happens weird, it's because the

Holy Spirit has directed it to happen that way so that everyone would be edified the way that they're supposed to be edified.

I think it worked out just great. I think you did, too, in hindsight. I wouldn't have wanted to do it with anybody else.

I really enjoyed it. I think that the topic was a good topic. I'm glad that...

And I don't know who I was responsible for it, Rob. I don't know if you planned it, planned the sermon series.

And I know we picked our own topics, but I don't know if you planned who would go where. I don't know how that was orchestrated, but it was well done.

And I know that you had a lot of work involved in it, and I appreciate you letting me come and be a part of it.

And he's not on here, but Brother Claude and Refra Mata really did an excellent job of showing hospitality.

And they were very kind to us in more ways than I'm sure they would care for us to say online.

If I know Brother Claude the way that I think I do, he wouldn't want any kind of praise, and that's usually what good men are like.

But to the whole Refra Mata family, I felt like I was at home. Amen. Absolutely.

They were so kind and so welcoming. Absolutely. See, Refra Mata is a church that we have prayed for in the past.

I think I talked about this a little bit at one point, that we all kind of know what's going on in each other's churches, that we know how we can be praying for each other's congregations.

But it was different towards the tail end of the conference because now there were faces.

Yeah. Now when we pray for Refra Mata, there are faces that come to mind. And I'm going to be thinking of people like Kenny.

Yeah. Yeah. Which, by the way, you know what he did.

Even after the conference, he had to help us out one last time because Keith's car was broken down.

So Kenny had to go and fix it. Yeah. Praise the Lord. Jump into tonight's topic.

We're going to be talking about Children's Church. Oh, the third thing. I'm jumping in too quick.

The third thing, and I want to do it quickly. We've not really officially announced it.

I would like to have Paul's rendering of the announcement video. But this is going to be next year's theme for the conference.

We're going to have it in Newton, North Carolina again next year. And here's the little video for next year's conference.

Cling to the cross. Then. Put both arms around it.

Hold to the crucified. And never let him go. Come afresh to the cross at this moment.

And rest there now and forever. Then. With the power of God resting upon you.

Go forth. And preach the cross. You guys down with that?

Yeah. We can just preach the whole chapter of Luke 9.

And just break it up. And run on with it. It would be great. Now that's an interesting idea.

I have one text for the whole conference. Luke 9. And just break it up and run with it.

It's crazy. You've got the feeding of the 5 ,000. You've got the ascending out of the 70. Coming out on Luke 10.

You've got take up your cross. You've got all sorts of stuff. It's fantastic. The end of Luke 9 talks about don't put your hand to the plow.

Unless you're willing to follow through with it. The whole text is. The whole Bible is great.

But Luke 9 is like. It just hits. And we've got Claude that just spent four years preaching through the

Gospel of Luke. Oh. I spent four years. It'd be cool.

I just finished Matthew a month ago. Four years. Matthew.

Praise the Lord. Pastor Jonathan. I think he went through Luke and just finished.

If I'm not mistaken. That's sweet. He did. That's right. Speaking of church and preaching.

Children's church versus children in church. We want to come at this with grace.

Because there's tradition involved. There are things that. Ways people do things.

So let's tackle some of these questions. Thankful to Jay for putting these questions together. To help us out.

In guiding the conversation. What are some of the advantages. And disadvantages.

Of having children's church. During the service. Let's start with advantages.

Of having children's church. Having children's church. Explain children's church. So people understand what you're asking.

So this is my understanding. And I guess it's coming from my experience. What children's church is.

And again. I'm just basing it on my experience. You'll go through the part.

Part of the service that. Most of the children. Can handle. The singing.

The beginning of the service. And then sometimes. There will be a song played.

Or a certain time during the service. That the kids will go out. And they will. They will have volunteers.

Who lead them in lessons. Or whatever they do. Outside of the sanctuary.

Sometimes there will be. A children's sermon. Down front. For the children.

And then they will be taken out. Or they can go back to their seats. So children's church.

Is just. The concept of taking children. Outside of the service.

Mainly during. Most commonly during. The preaching time. So that they can.

Do their own thing. Outside of the sanctuary. Learn in their own way. Have you guys.

Do you feel that there are. Any advantages to. I'll say it like this. Biblical advantages.

We want to look at this from a biblical perspective. Having children's church. Taking children out.

There are some advantages. That's typically the way that. When I was associate pastor.

At Real Life. We did do that. With some exceptions. Obviously there were some times. That children stayed.

Throughout the entire service. And I will say that. The advantages that I saw.

Were that in the case. Where we had a. Husband and wife.

That did what was called splash. They taught the kids. They both worked.

At one point I think for a school. And did a really good job. With teaching.

First and foremost. The kids that are in. Splash. Whenever I was going to Real Life.

Were far and above. Kids that were. Going to different children's churches.

And other churches that I've been to. In terms of their knowledge base. Of scripture. But now

I will say. That it might be different. Than some people's children's church. In that there wasn't a huge.

Push towards making things. Childish. Or quote unquote.

Fun time. There was a legitimate push. Towards teaching them.

The gospel. And the splash room. Was a.

Totally separate sanctuary. They had a time of worship. That was led by the adults.

That were in there. And the kids that were in there together. That were older. Before they would leave. I think that.

My girls went through it. And. They can tell you. The names of all the books.

Of the bible in order. From Genesis to Revelation. They can tell you. The doctrines of faith.

Inside the church of God. More than probably they could. Any other denomination. But in terms of what we taught.

And why we taught it. They're well versed in that. So that would be an advantage.

I think. That you could slow down. Some of the theology. To a little bit slower pace.

So that a child could. Maybe grasp it better. Or maybe a kid could ask questions. Which is. A totally separate issue for me.

But the way that I do. Say Wednesday night services. For instance.

If there's a question you have. About a portion of text. That I'm teaching from.

I want you to ask it. You don't have to stop me. In the middle of reading. But before you leave.

I want you to ask it to the whole church. You might not be the only person who has a question. But it gives me an opportunity to answer it.

What's the purpose of teaching somebody. If you're talking over their head. They don't learn anything. That's an advantage.

I'm not a huge fan of children's church. So I'm just going to. Stay out of this one.

Until we get to the disadvantages. I was going to say. Based on the silence.

After the question. It seems like most of you guys. May lean the other direction.

Imagine that. Yeah. I'm at a church right now. I came into the church.

That I'm at right now. Where they have children's church. I agree with. Big John.

That there is some advantages. As far as. You can communicate truth.

To their level. And talk to them. Where they are. On a

Sunday morning. I know also. This might not be a biblical advantage.

I think that's what you were asking. But also. Parents can kind of.

Focus a little bit more. Depending on the age of the child. Sometimes it's hard for a parent.

To focus on a child. And focus on a sermon. Especially if they're not used to it.

There's a lot of churches. That have children's church. If you're not used to. Having your child separate from you.

It can be a little bit annoying. For the parent. I think there are some advantages.

In that. That brings up a question. That I wanted to tag on to.

Those who. Lean more towards. Not liking children's church.

And leaning the other direction. It's interesting that. The Sword and the Trowel. The Founders Ministry podcast.

Also did their podcast this week. On children in church. And children's church.

I can't remember the exact title. In listening to that. I was thinking. If a child is.

Loud or disruptive. Or has a need. I don't think anybody.

Has a. Sees anything wrong with a parent. Taking that child out. Or taking an infant out.

I had to do it. Many times. You had that happen. At the conference even. I do think.

The sound of children. In the worship service. Is a blessing. It's a blessing because.

It's a sound of God's faithfulness. To the next generation. I don't want to press that too far.

We're not to that point yet. I just want to bring that up. The question. I'm trying to get to.

How does that parent. Who's consistently. Where church doesn't have a.

Volunteered staff nursery. Or children's church. How does that parent. Who's constantly.

Having to take children out. How do they get fed? I'm not asking that in a negative way.

Just in a positive way. My family and I. My wife and I.

We are those parents. You know what I mean? You got four too right? I got four.

I got four too. For us. For us.

I think what we do. Is that. This is not something that most people.

Think of this anymore. I would agree that. There's an advantage to.

Having the children away. In the sense that you can. Listen to the sermon. I think that.

People need to think of. Training up their children. To sit in church and listen to the pastor.

As part of their worship. As part of their worship to God. I think a lot of people think.

I'm here to hear a sermon. That is definitely primarily. Why you're in church.

You are in church to worship God. Part of your worship to God. Is raising up your children.

Training them up in the way. That they should go. One of the things that children. Today nowadays expect.

Is that if something is not fun. It's not worthwhile. I'm not saying that.

Children's churches. I even feel uncomfortable calling it. Children's churches. I feel more comfortable calling it.

A children's group. Children's church. The term itself implies.

There's a church within the church. Right. That is something.

That I'm not comfortable with. Church is a place. Where pastors are.

Administering the word of God. There's a congregation. Worshiping God. Congregationally.

Not divided. Not separated. When we teach children.

I'm not saying. All children's churches are bad. Or children's groups are bad. But. You can teach your children.

Everything. I teach my children. I catechize them. I ask them questions. I have them answer.

So they can learn answers from the Bible. But that's not church. Church is the corporate adoration.

Of our triune God. And that's what. I ultimately want our children to see.

Most of all. Again. There are advantages to children's church. I used to go to Randy's church.

I've changed a lot over the years. With different things. I've had to learn.

That part of my worship to God. Is to train up my children. When they're throwing a tantrum. And I'm missing part of the sermon.

I have to take them out. This is now what we do. And have a talk with them.

Depending on their age. I'm not going to have a full on conversation. With my two year old. Mostly because she doesn't really listen.

But. You have to. Perceive.

What you're doing. As service unto the Lord. Just like we work for the Lord. When we're at work.

Or when we. If you're a stay at home mom. When you're taking care of the children at home.

And doing everything. Do it unto the Lord for the glory of God. I'll be quiet now.

Another thing. Just from a guy. I preach fairly regularly.

Just to add on to what you're saying. One of the things. I've learned. Is that I need to recognize.

I need to preach to the kids too. There needs to be something. The church that I'm.

I don't even know how to describe it. The church that I've been working with a lot lately. That's not my home church. That may be my home church.

I really don't know. We'll see how that works out. They have a time for a children sermon.

Where the children come up front. We go over something that's children related. But we also. I try to in my regular preaching.

Draw the kids in. Say phrases that I know they will know. Try to make the doctrine.

At their level. Because sometimes. You have folks who are older. 20, 30, 40 years old.

Who are understanding things at a level. Of a 5, 6, 7, 8 year old. Because they're just new in the faith. So you try to preach to the kids.

And in the process. You're going to preach to the adults as well. Preach to the kids. Preach to the kids. Preach to the adults. Preach to the whole council of God.

Across the whole thing. Just kind of keep in mind. That you've got a varied audience.

Go deep. Go shallow. Go in the middle. Hit them all. And glorify

Christ in all of it. So I'll say this. The advantages that I see.

In children's church. And I didn't pull any scripture up. To try to come at it from a biblical point of view.

Truthfully. I was thinking about it. In terms of what I've seen. I don't currently have a children's church.

At my church. They all currently. If a child comes to my church. Sunday morning.

I have no children's church to send them to. We're rebuilding things. In a lot of ways.

And what I have found. And this is something that. I've heard several. Pentecostals say over the years.

Is that whenever. When the Holy Spirit is present. In the teaching. In the worship.

I've noticed even children surrender to that. That they know instinctively. That now is the time to listen.

And I've seen that. Time and time again. As I said there are exceptions. To when we would not have children's church.

Whenever there was revival meetings. Or even during the year. At regular times.

After vacation Bible school. Our children's church pastors. Would take a break.

Vacation Bible school would wear them down. And they would take a break. They would come into the worship service.

I think one of the advantages. Of having children out of the room.

Sometimes as a pastor. Is that there are some things. That whenever you talk about them. I don't know.

Who's sitting under me. That's saved and not saved. I truly don't know.

I have good ideas. Right. And. There's a strong possibility.

Actually I know there's not just a possibility. I know I have preached against things. That their parents.

Were actively doing at home. Behind closed doors. That I was absolutely unaware of at the time. And I think that.

Sometimes one of the advantages. Of the children being out of the room. Is that the parents are more realistic with you. Whenever they don't feel like.

They have to put a front up in front of their kids. Right. And say what you want to.

Everyone on here is a man. It takes. It takes the Holy Spirit working in you.

To keep you from fleshing up. And getting mad. Whenever somebody says something. And calls you out. Right. And you have to humble yourself.

In that area. So I think there's times. That I've seen men come to the front.

And ask me. To help them pray through a situation. Or come to me and tell me.

That they just realize that they're lost. And they've been leading their family astray. And I don't know that they would have felt comfortable.

Enough to do that in front of their kids. Maybe they should. Or maybe they would. Maybe they wouldn't. I know they should feel comfortable enough.

To do that in front of their kids. But there's that point of view. Throwing that out there. I know there's a pile of things.

You can pick apart about it. Because it's not the most sound.

Or whatever. I'll say this. And I promise I won't take long.

But when I see the scriptures. We're talking about scriptural basis. Sure. What I typically see.

And I'm thinking of. Is it Ephesians 6? Children obey your parents in the Lord.

For it is right. So. Paul is addressing a congregation.

So his expectation. Is that children are right there. With the parents in the assembly.

That's true. So. If we're looking for. What was normal.

During biblical times. I think what was normal in the Old and New Testament. Is that children were part of the assembly.

So. If you think about that. In terms of that being a letter. Written to the Ephesian church.

I would dare say. That we would have a hard time. Drawing direct parallels.

Between what the church. And Ephesus looked like. And what the church. And. LinkedIn looked like.

Not because of. Of anything other than the fact that. These people were meeting in houses.

Day by day. Right. And this wasn't as organized.

As what you know church to be today. In the sense that there was. Set times.

Set dress codes. A set of order of operations. If you will. Of how the service is supposed to be laid out.

And everything. And I'll be just as real as I can be with you. I absolutely love order.

And structure. I despise. Just things thrown in left and right.

It eats me from one end to the other. So I'm not saying that. I'm an advocate for just chaotic.

Church by no means right. But when I think about what's being said here. This is advice.

That you're to live by every day. Not just at church. Right. You're always supposed to honor your father and mother.

That's a commandment for one. But I mean. So to be well with you. And that you may live long on the earth.

Fathers do not provoke your children to wrath. But to bring them up in discipline and instruction in the Lord. I mean if we were to use that.

Those verses. Which we should use those verses in how to raise our children. But if we use those verses in the way that church is supposed to be laid out.

Then it would look like. Church is supposed to be. Fathers instructing their children. And that's really it.

As opposed to coming together. And being led by. Whoever God had to put over.

The church of Exodus. Well I don't think it's saying. I'm not using those texts to say. Well the children have to honor their parents in that very moment.

Or the fathers have to like. Do something. I think the point that I'm trying to make is. Paul is addressing a congregation.

Where he expects fathers and children. In the same room. Where this is being read.

And if we're talking about order. And how to order the church. Well Paul laid out.

How church should be. Right? I think it was 1 Corinthians that he talks about.

How church should be organized. What I read. Doesn't say anything about children's church.

Or children's rites. Or anything like that. So. That's what

I'm saying. I'm not necessarily saying that. Hey. You have a nursery in your church.

It's understandable. Young mothers have to. Take care of the babies. So maybe a separate space for them.

Just out of practicality. Sure. Nice change of diaper in private. Kids are wild.

Right. Sometimes you have to take them out. And discipline them. But the overall trend.

That I'm seeing in scripture. Is congregational families. I mean.

One thing that makes me uncomfortable. About children. Being separated from their parents.

There's no familial worship. As in. They might be learning one thing over there.

And I'm learning something else. Over here. Maybe the parents can come.

And talk about it at home. But it's not the same. As when you hear from the pastor.

You know what I mean? For example. I completely understand. My children are not going to understand.

Everything that the pastor says. But they're going to remember enough. That when I bring them home. And I talk to them.

What did we learn in church today? They're going to know what I'm talking about. Because they have a shared experience with me.

That's right. And what you're doing is. You're supplementing what they're learning.

And it takes that. And it takes that. Whether they're at children's church. Or whether they're sitting in the congregation with everybody.

If you put your children in children's church. And that's the bulk of their teaching. Is done by somebody in children's church.

As a father. You are failing. You're an utter failure. Because your job is to continually be teaching them.

Not just let Sunday be the time. That they learn about Jesus. But about every day. And this is interesting.

I never actually. I haven't spent a pile of time. Thinking about it this way. But it's something that.

I had an opportunity twice. To take a youth pastor position. Over the last 10 years.

Actually more than twice. And I turned it down both times. And I'll tell you why brother Jay. My children were in youth.

At that time. Or still are in youth. And I told both men.

Who offered me the job. I said truthfully. I teach my children at home.

All the time. We talk about the Bible on the radio. There's something biblical going on in this house all the time.

That should be the case in every home. But I can't be at your house or anybody else's. I can be in mine. That's all

I can be in charge of. I want my children to hear.

Someone else. From time to time. Open God's word. And expound on it.

And maybe teach them more than I can teach them. There's a lot I don't know. And sometimes I hear. From another person's perspective.

If they're hearing me behind the pulpit on Sunday. And then every day of the week. And then hear me in youth meeting.

On Wednesday night. They're never hearing an altering opinion. At all.

Ever. Unless they look somewhere on the internet. And one of the things I've noticed. In working inside the church.

For the last 15 years. Is that whenever someone has been raised up. The way my kids have been.

Which has been in church. Since they were in diapers. When their dad passes away.

It's like the anchor. That they had with Christ. They just lost that.

And I've watched. Life long church members. Just scatter all over the place. Whenever their dad was their pastor.

And then he passed away. And it's one of those things. That I want my children.

Whenever. When God calls me home. I want them to know. That dad wasn't the only person who was praying.

And reading his bible. That they can sit under another man somewhere. And be taught. And they would be able to tell the difference.

Between somebody who is preaching God's word. In the best way they know how.

Versus somebody. Who is trying to twist scripture. To their own selfish ends. Right?

That's part of my job. I feel like as a dad. In teaching my children. Is also teaching them what to look out for.

In terms of dangers. Just like I teach them to look both ways. Before they cross the road. They need to understand.

There's going to be somebody out there. Who will try to take advantage of you. And use this same bible that I'm teaching you from. As their ammunition.

You need to know how to disarm them. Not as an opposing view at all.

But as maybe a different angle. Of the same view that you're looking at. Yeah. You know that we disagree sometimes.

Sure. But I think it's iron sharpens iron. But I believe that children should be in the house of God.

Whenever corporate worship is happening. Children need to see grown men. Praising and worshiping

God. Amen. Because the idea that worship. Is something that women and children do.

And not grown men. Has caused an entire generation of men. To think that serving

Christ is unmanly. Yep. The most God honoring thing. You can do with your life.

Is to submit and worship Jesus Christ. And to do it in spirit and in truth. And if you get emotional during the time.

That's fine. Manly men. Worship God. Because that's what God's called them to do.

And children need to see their dads. And their grandpas and their uncles. On their knees before a holy

God. Worshipping him. The church I'm at. We do children's church.

I'm not. I don't share in that conviction. I'm probably a bit more with Jay on this one.

But we kind of leave that concession open. For children's church. But one thing that we do do.

Is that on communion Sundays. There isn't children's church. And the way we do communion.

Is that the heads of household. Are beckoned to the table. And they take the elements.

And they go back to the pew. And they serve the elements. Of their entire family. And it's little things like that.

That I think are important to. Regardless of where we land on this. To reinforce the idea that it's.

One church. One danger that I see. With some.

What's the word I'm looking for? Integrated? For some attempts at children's church.

Is that it becomes. A church within a church. There are some churches I've been at.

Where somebody who grows up in the church. Does not hear from their pastor at all.

Until they're 16, 17 years old. Yeah. And so you get this idea that.

Their pastor is the youth pastor. Or the children's pastor. And then that's the old person pastor over there.

Yeah I see what you're saying. I see a potential. To hinder unity.

When we're segregating. The church by age. That's not to say that we. We should say that everybody.

Who does this is sinning. I'm not saying that at all. But there are caveats. There are things that I think we need to.

Give some thought to. How can this help? And how can this hurt? I see we've got a couple comments.

On the feed here. That this person says. That they sent their kids to a children's church once.

And they taught them modalism. That's my wife. That's my kids.

Oh of course. Your kids probably set the teacher straight. But it's.

They were kind of like. Why is this candy corn. Supposed to represent the trinity.

Candy corn. Yeah. Three colors of candy corn. Three persons.

And I was like whoa whoa whoa. My eight year old was. He was like this doesn't seem right dad.

And often times. With lessons on the trinity. Just as an example. It's very easy to.

Oversimplify. And kind of step beyond the bounds. Oversimplify. That's not because you've got this little lady in the children's church.

That's just malevolent. In their teaching. It's just an honest mistake.

And here's the thing. On the trinity. If you go that direction. Analogies are helpful.

But only because they have a true aspect. And a false aspect. And you can say here's what it means positively.

And here's where it goes off the rails. Don't do that. But that was not what my kids received.

At children's church. And so that's an example. Of how things can be done.

In a way that's less than ideal. Yeah. There is a cautiousness. With teaching in children's church.

In the spirit of James. Not many should become teachers. There is weight to this.

Even if they're children. There is weight to teaching the bible. There's more weight. When you're teaching children.

Whenever Jesus talks about teaching people. The ones that he warns the most about. Is teaching children incorrectly.

For it be better that you have a millstone. Tied around your neck. And thrown into the seed. And lead one of these young ones astray. So you had best.

One of the deepest convictions I have. And one of the reasons why I don't have. A children's minister.

Or a children's leader. Like this is the youth leader every Sunday. Or Wednesday.

Is because there's a push. To get a young hip kid.

Who maybe knows how to play guitar. Or something. To be the youth leader. And I don't want that.

I want somebody. Who is old enough. And is wise enough.

To teach children. As if they were his own children. To have the sobriety.

Necessary. To set children down. And talk to them about things. And I want the children to be able to respect him.

As they would respect. Any one of their elders. And not see a friend. And not see somebody who's just a bud.

That they text on the regular. Or whatever the language is of the day. It's not text. It's snap.

I got a young one here on the couch. Listen to me. You don't text anymore.

You just snap. It's not that kind of snap. It's something different.

It took me forever to figure out how to keep my messages. Every time I'd open it up. It'd go away. And I had to have them resend it over and over.

And finally I give them the phone. And I said make it so it don't go away no more. So I can keep. Anyway.

I'm going to jump in for my boy Randy. Randy I've seen you try to say a couple things.

But you're going to read this real quick brother. Yes. Several times. I want to hear what you got going on in your head. You got to just jump in.

And if somebody takes a breath. Interrupt them. Your brother here. Say your words. My church.

The church that I'm in now. Like I said. I came into this church where there is children church. It's actually very segregated.

It's very segregated. I made a lot of changes. And I can't make any more changes. So I grew. In my ministry.

I've been in ministry for maybe 17, 18 years. And so I know children church.

Right. And me and brother Jay spoke one day. And every time we speak.

We're talking for like hours. But we were talking on the same topic. And he kind of convinced me.

Of what his position. I was hearing him out. And so I kind of lean a little bit more.

I don't think having children church is bad. Or wrong. Maybe not as strongly as Jay does.

But I lean towards his position. In a sense of. Like big

John says. Not only is it a good thing. The singing part worship. But the preaching.

And the hearing of God's word. Is also worship. And the children should be part of that.

As well. And so. He kind of convinced me.

In that direction. And I kind of like it. Just that. I'm in a situation where.

I can't really make that much. I made too many changes already. Can you believe guys.

That I'm able to convince him of all these things. But I still can't get him to be a Calvinist. I'm just saying. Wait a minute.

Brother Randy. You're not a Calvinist either? I'm not no. Praise God. Yes.

I'm not anti -Calvinist. But I'm not. Well that's a relief.

Hallelujah. I knew there was something I liked about you. Our diversity comes out.

So I wanted to tackle that last part of question one. We're still on question one. Hit question four in a unique way.

Because we've already talked about it. And then I think number ten. But for you guys.

Who are not for. Children's church. So. I'm going out here on a limb.

To say that you guys. That would not have children's church. In your fellowship.

You're not one of these parents. Who are searching for a church.

And your first questions are. I have children. I'm looking for a strong youth.

And children's ministry. You're not those parents are you? No. I didn't think you were.

However I would ask. I would ask the elders of the church.

What they're going to do. In order to support me. In the raising of my children.

That's a good question. That's good. We've talked about the advantages.

The positives of both sides. What I wanted to get to. Was give you guys a chance. To give folks something to chew on.

So. From your perspective. The disadvantages of having children's church.

Just to give folks. Something to chew on. To think about both sides. Since we've looked at the positives. If I could start.

One of the things. As I was talking. I'm thinking about.

The way the church is structured. It makes me ask the question. If. During the preaching of the word.

The children are separated. The question is. Is the pastor of the church.

Their pastor. Right. That hit me.

When I was talking. If I'm preaching on Sunday. The teens are here.

We even separate the teens. At my church. We have the teens here. We have the children here.

We have this group here. I'm preaching to 21 and over.

Am I pastoring. The other group of people. That are quote unquote.

Members of the church. I think that would be. A disadvantage.

That the pastor. Is not exercising. His pastoral role.

Over the children. That's a big negative. That's one thing. Even though.

I think the children's church is a good idea. Done correctly. If you're not careful.

A huge disadvantage. Is one. The segregation of the church.

They don't feel like they have a place to be. Whenever they graduate out of it. How many children. Once they're 18 years old.

Now they're grown. An 18 year old. In a church of God. Is a humongous day.

When they graduate high school. Provided they turn 18. If they turn 18. The day they graduate high school.

They're no longer qualified to be in youth. That's the last time. They can go to a youth service. Last time they can go to youth camp.

Last time they can go to. We don't have a youth service during. Worship service.

Our youth stay in. Always will stay in the worship service.

Only the children from the ages of. Eight and down. I think it is.

Maybe it's 10 and down. They can go to children's church anyway. Regardless once they turn 18. Now they're thrust into a church.

Where they have a new pastor. It seems like. They have to talk to adults now.

They haven't talked to adults. If you're completely separate. I think. It is a disadvantage.

If you're not careful. How you pastor. There's a huge difference.

Between preaching and pastoring. Pastoring is not done. On Sunday morning.

Between 8 and 12. Pastoring is done on Sunday. From 12 p .m. Until the following Sunday at 6 a .m.

That's the pastoring part. The preaching part is just on Sunday. Wednesdays. Truthfully to pastor.

The children. You ought to be available to them. And their parents.

Their parents and them together. Nine times out of 10. Should be that way anyway. The children ought to be comfortable.

Enough to come to you. I have a question. I'm reading scripture. That ought to be something normal to them.

Pastor Randy. I was praying about something. Somebody at school says something.

I would like your opinion. What do you think scripture means on this? You should be able to sit down.

With them. Respond to them. It's a text. Whatever. That was just an example.

For anybody watching. I'm not a pastor. Just putting it out there. I'm just clarifying.

To that point. A couple of months ago. We had a youth fellowship at my house. The youth was saying.

They wanted a Bible study. Cater to them.

I told them no. We have Bible study already. At this church. You don't need.

A separate Bible study. You guys are old enough to understand. You guys are in college.

You can understand theology. That's right. They wanted a separate. It's just those things.

If we don't be careful. We can continue to create segregation. Everybody has a separate thing going on.

Leaders are burnt out. They got to minister to all these different. That's right. You're 100 % right.

I agree wholeheartedly with that. I don't have a problem with. Separate Bible studies.

For separate age groups. As long as. There's a concerted effort.

For a unified whole. As a church. Throughout the week. It's helpful.

It's helpful for. High school age. College age kids. To hear good things.

For their age group. Proper application of text. For their age group.

During certain times. As long as they're not segregated. From the church. The pastors are looking at.

Everyone. Who's within their church. As people that need to be shepherded.

There needs to be a unity. Even if there is some more. Specific shepherding going on.

In some smaller groups. Throughout different times. Whatever that looks like.

I think that looks like on Sunday morning. When you get together for worship. Everyone's together. Then you shepherd them differently.

Maybe throughout the week. If this one has a need here. You address that. If that one has a need there. You address that.

You have a cohesive unit. Then address specific needs. As they arise.

All while leading up people. To do the work of the ministry. Fathers to shepherd their families.

Single folks. To live life as godly Christian folks. So on and so forth.

I think all that kind of works together. If you take it all as a unit.

If you take it all as a unit. One of the things I witnessed in my age group. Growing up in youth group. Things that I saw.

There was a sense. There actually was a reality of. Rebellion.

From youth age kids. When the adult church.

The grown up church. Wouldn't make changes. Or adapt to. Their felt needs.

I'll give an example. The changing of the music. Participation.

Things of that nature. They wouldn't. They didn't like the fact. The adult church wouldn't adapt.

To them and their felt needs. For music. Style of worship. Style of service.

There was this sense and reality of rebellion. Where they went to go find.

These secret sensitive churches. Or left church period. I witnessed this myself.

In my life experience. Then there's many. Who leave church.

As youth. Don't graduate to grown up church. Then. Do not show an interest in church again.

Until they have kids. And have the mindset. Maybe I need to have my children.

Back in church. There's that sense of needing to go back. Because of their children. That's what

I was talking about earlier. When people are 18. They're like I'm done. Everything for me is here. I want to push against that.

Something I've noticed. That is a universal problem. I don't know.

How to play hymns on the guitar. I don't know how to read sheet music. I'm Pentecostal.

I've got two ears. That's all I've got. To play music by. I don't know how to do nothing else. That's right.

Our reformed Presbyterians. Don't even use instruments. That's true. We'll make it together.

My point here. I'm trying to say. Brother Robert. When I first came to.

Pastor this church. There was this push. They sang traditional songs. Which I think are great.

Hymnals are great. I got no problem with them whatsoever. A lot of them are theologically rich. Beautiful songs.

I can't play them. I don't know how to play them.

I can't sing. I can physically sing. You just don't want to hear it. The lady who was playing piano.

She's not in the best of health. She's out a lot. When they wanted to have worship. Time and music.

I can only play what I can play. I got a lot of flack. Not like I'm leaving the church.

Because you're playing contemporary music. Every Sunday. Won't you play this song? Don't know that song.

I can't help you. I can only do what I can do. If you know how to play it. Jump on the piano.

Hammer down. We'll do it. I think there's this. It might be a western problem.

Western culture problem. We view church as something that should be catered to us.

It may be a problem that is learned in children's church and youth. This is catered to them. They bring that with them as adults.

They want it to be their way or the highway whenever they come into church. I wasn't raised in a youth group like that.

I don't have nothing to compare it to. I suppose that would be a disadvantage that I have seen.

If that's what caused this mindset of play my music or else. That is a huge disadvantage to this diversified form of worship that we have.

I know when I was younger going to teen groups and things like that for me it was a social club.

You know what I mean? It was about that guy plays guitar this guy's rapping

It's the music I like. There's pretty girls. You would look for that kind of stuff.

I wasn't going because of Jesus. I can tell you that much. That was the cover.

I'm going because I'm a Christian and because of Jesus. Realistically if you had good hard preaching but you took away all those things that kept me around I probably would have kept going.

Even if it was biblical which exposes where I was at at that point in time. 16, 17 years old.

It was just superficial stuff. I used to be a teen group leader over in Church in the

Glades. I can tell you all the teens that I saw pass through that teen group most of them are not believers today.

In retrospect if I had been wiser I should have known because there were warning signs.

I wasn't here by the way. Randy wasn't there. Randy wasn't there. I'm not trying to throw

Randy or anybody under the bus. I'm not saying that the other pastor or anybody is at fault.

I think that there wasn't and again

I didn't know any better. It was my fault. I shouldn't have been a leader at that time either because I'm not saying that I did anything heretical per se but I didn't teach.

You weren't mature enough. I was not ready for it. I was not mature and I should have been in that position.

In retrospect there were warning signs but I was sort of naive and I just took everybody at the word and if they say they're a

Christian I was like, okay, great. You're a Christian. Maybe this person needs discipleship.

That brings me to my last point, I promise. Matt said that people underestimate what children can actually learn from the corporate worship service.

That's absolutely correct. A lot of people say, oh no, this is too high level for them.

Man, no it is not. I can attest to that fact with my children because even if it's using language that they won't understand when we talk about it, it clicks.

Maybe I have to bring it down a notch but it's just a little bit and they get it. It clicks.

So, anyway. I think Dan said it Brother Dan said it earlier it challenges the pastor as well.

If the children so right now the children are not there so I'm going to preach knowing that the children are not there but if I'm consistently having the children there then

I'm going to have to challenge my preaching that I'm going to preach to the children preach to the adults, preach to the believer the unbeliever, etc.

It helps the preacher preach better when you have that diversity in the audience.

It helps the pastor pastor better too because if you're thinking about preaching to them during the Sunday you're thinking about pastoring to them during the week.

True enough. Back to this thing about children understanding stuff my children have blurted stuff out during sermons that is profound and I don't even know where they got it.

My 8 year old blurted something out on the 28th we left early to go back and visit some folks in Charlotte from the

Blabor's Conference we visited an Orthodox Presbyterian church the pastor was speaking about returning to your sin and how it was foolish and he said something about returning to their sin and my 4 year old yelled out why would you do that?

and he said that's a good question and he responded to her and he let everyone know that it's foolishness to return to your sin he was preaching out of Romans and it was just glorious to watch him preaching the word of God to hear my 4 year old she makes me wonder sometimes she is crazy but she just blurted something out that was so precious and he just preached right back to her and everyone else that was there and that's crazy children are understanding a lot more than what we give them credit for I think that's backed up by science

I think if you teach a child a second language they learn it so much faster than they do I can't speak

Spanish to save my life and I got Rosetta Stone and it didn't help me none I could add some nuance as we start winding down a little bit because there are people in this group that their churches do have children's church and are trying to make the best of a need because we're in a weird spot culturally right now where often times families aren't getting that daily instruction that Dan is used to with daily family worship this used to be a staple in the

Christian home and it's not or even parents who are new believers or even parents who are new believers they don't know themselves right, and so often times,

I know my church looks at it this way right now there's a pressing need for instruction for kids that are used to getting this during the week and I think this is something that we can work to correct this

Joel Beeke is very adamant that the main thing preventing revival from coming to America is the lack of family worship and that he would go as far as to say until Christian families start doing that again, revival won't come to America that's good

I would look at children's church as a necessity maybe in some context for the time being sure one of the things

I would say to add to this Brother Tyler, from a pastor's point of view keeping your children in the congregation is totally fine but it doesn't benefit them if they've got a coloring book or a tablet or your cell phone in their hand playing

Angry Birds during the service and I see some people say that they won't send their kids to children's church but their kids are in the back with a coloring book during the service to keep them quiet and to keep them appeased

I ask you this question, what is the difference between that and just sending them out because they're not engaged at that point either are they?

well I agree with you on the Angry Birds thing I just used that as an example

I don't know what the kids are playing the Angry Birds thing, you're engaged that's a fun game you're going to want to knock them pigs over and crush the buildings but we did a thing it was my children's literature class we listened to a story and then took a test afterwards where we just listened sat there, fully attentive took the test and then we listened to a different story while we were coloring when we were able to occupy our physical bodies with something while letting our minds pay attention to the story, we scored better on the test so there is something to coloring and bringing kids paying attention but we've got to know where to stop it like Angry Birds, way too far them kids are locked into that screen they're not paying attention to nothing sure but there are certain things that can occupy the hands and get that fidgetiness out of the way where their minds can engage but that also goes back to you training them to listen so there's give and take and I don't think you're wrong with what you're saying we don't need to just distract them to keep them quiet but we have to train them to listen however that looks in our context whatever works to make them listen while we're making them understand that this is

God's word being spoken to you and whatever you're able to understand in your context understand it, grasp it, pull it in while also encouraging

I agree with you but you know what I'm saying while also encouraging the rest of the congregation to show grace to that one noisy kid in the back and not just give them the dang face his name is

Logan, that's my kid well that's one of the things that Tom Askell talks about and I 100 % agree hey if you hear that kid crying in the back don't stare you focus on just listening to the sermon let the parents handle it if the kid is just crying uncontrollably and the parents are not taking him or her out maybe step in and say hey do you need help depending on the level of comfort if they're a stranger they'll say hey do you want me to take your kid but if you're a brother or sister and they've known you for a while hey do you want me to take care of him for you do you want me to take him in the back because at the same time it is true we don't want to be overly disruptive to other people but at the same time let that parent have the time without feeling like they're being judged to teach their children this is not how we behave in church you're not going to escape because for example my two year old she knows very well that if she cries long enough we might take her to the back and sadly

I'm not trying to criticize everybody in my church but sadly some people just hang out in the back and they never bring their kids back in because it's just easier it's just easier but they're not training up their children to stay in church and so what do they do?

the kids get all there together they start playing with the toys and they're not listening and then the parents can't even hear because the kids are being loud so my two year old she knows that and she wants us to get her out of there but we don't if we have to get her out of there we get her out of there to talk to her tell her this is not how we behave and then we go right back inside John and Dan I incorporated two of the things that you guys were talking about you were talking about coloring

Dan you were talking about listening I attempted one time to incorporate both of those things so I had paper and I had crayons and so my request was something that you hear my wife actually takes notes like that even as an adult that's how she takes she draws pictures she'll write little words she'll draw pictures that's how she takes notes another thing to Jay's point our kids will make noise from time to time and people will actually enjoy it when we were at the conference we had one of our fellow speakers had his kids come in and they were making some noise and it made me feel wonderful it made me feel at home

I'm not used to hearing preaching without some noise from kids he apologized for the noise

I'm like man it made me feel at home I love hearing the noise of kids in church because it lets me know that God is being faithful to the next generation and that you are working with your kids to listen and kids are going to be kids they're going to be loud they're going to be disruptive from time to time but there are kids there and God is doing his work among them so it was all good it was great stuff that's good and we are a church family they came in and started making noise

I turned around and smiled I've learned not to turn around whenever I turn around I hear kids behind me and it's not because it's disturbing me at all it's because I found that if you do that sometimes kids are actually looking for attention yes and when you turn you're sort of feeding the machine right now and when you play music in a band brother

Jay you know this if somebody makes a mistake if you respect them you don't look at them whenever they hit the wrong note you act like it didn't happen

I was usually the guy hitting the wrong notes nobody looked at me either but if you hit them all then you've hit the right ones too that's my excuse if I just hit them all

I've got the right ones and I've got the wrong ones that's funny because I'm tone deaf for the most part and at one point at the conference

Big John, Jonathan and myself were having a bit of an impromptu jam session Jonathan was on the keys and Big John was on the guitar and Jay said you were singing the

Psalms Psalm 3 good stuff and what was it

Jay made a comment something needs to be tuned and I was like really to be truthful it was me that was out of line

I don't play bass and it was a 5 string bass and I kept instinctually thinking that the top string was where I was wanting to go and if you know anything about a bass a 5 string bass is a

B not an E and I was like damn but I don't have enough natural rhythm to play bass you know what

I mean see that's why I've got an instrument that you can literally hold it upside down and still play it there you go anyway let me tweak the last question and just have one or two of you guys answer it

I would venture to say that all of us would agree that from scripture ultimately it's the parent's job to train up their children in the ways of the

Lord and so one or two of you encourage parents how they can do that in both settings where they're in a church where there's not children's church encourage them to keep on keeping on if they're in a church where there is children's church how can they be faithful in being that parent that God's called them to be to train them up ultimately it's not it's not up to your church to teach your children about God it's up to you and that's why

I'm like hey family worship at home is not just beneficial it's essential it's essential because you are trying as much as humanly possible even though it's ultimately up to God but you are humanly from a human perspective trying to save those children now again salvation is of the

Lord's and the Lord only but the Lord works through what we do that's why we preach the gospel otherwise we wouldn't preach it we'd just say well

God will save whoever's gonna save no we have a responsibility to train up our children and it starts at home first and it doesn't have to be hard it can be one little passage of scripture one verse a small devotional and then you just ask a couple of questions to your kids what do you guys think about this why shouldn't we sin when whatever it might be it just depends on the context of what you're talking about and then sing one song maybe pick a song

Dan will pick a psalm sing a psalm psalms are beautiful psalms

I'm not exclusively a psalmist but we can talk about that later we will

I know that Jay likes Heelsong there's at least one song the point is every day 15 minutes a day whatever you can do spend some time with your kids and teach them about the

Lord that has saved you and that you love and that is the God of all

Amen if your church has a children's church where they're being taught at a different time than you're being taught exactly what

Jay said still applies when your children come home ask them what they learned and use the opportunity to discuss what their children's church leaders are teaching them and then you can tell them what you learned in the normal adult

Sunday service and spend some time over that topic and supplement what the teacher is teaching your children and give them an opportunity to ask you questions about what you're learning in adult service or whatever and train up your children during this time one more thing

I'm going to give a shameless plug to us psalm singers just in your family time with your kids if you can get a hold of a psalter and sing with them you knock out singing and preaching in one step you can look at the psalm you can explain it to them teach them from it and then sing it with them pray about it and that's your whole family worship one nutshell his little psalter is a great tool

I just want to say one quick thing mothers it's great that you teach your children fathers it is absolutely your responsibility

Amen it has to be father led it cannot be just the women making all the effort so men step up act like men and if you're a single mother if single mothers obviously that's one of the things your job is to teach them you have no alternative and pastors should be sensitive to single mothers too to help in that respect the church is supposed to be sensitive the whole church absolutely there's supposed to be men in the church who step up and fill in that gap where they can obviously where it's done decently and in order we're a family that's what we are so children screaming in the back shouldn't be nerve wracking to you because you should be treating them like they're your children those are all your nieces and nephews that's right and be sensitive to your brothers and sisters who are raising children at times when it's more difficult than it is other

I've got four kids and I had four under the age of three at one time in my life and I know what it's like to have literally two children screaming and one in each hand trying to get them out of church you know and if I was a little bit smaller

I couldn't even have held them both at the same time because whatever they were fighting about so it's one of those things during that time don't roll your eyes at the children who are screaming and hollering

I usually take an opportunity whenever something like that's happening and I start to pray

I got accused of sleeping in the conference my brother Rob I think it was or maybe it was

Sister Kelly I know my wife accused me of it one time because she elbowed me mid -prayer and hurt a little bit she got me in that sweet meat on the side

I can't remember who was preaching and there was a man with a disability that was there and he was clearly having some trouble breathing during one of the services and it broke my heart

I started praying for him so I closed my eyes in respect to the prayer and I'm giving him the business by that time

I get gouged real hard by my wife in the elbow and then I started having trouble breathing but when you see

I know that's funny but when you see people who are in this moment of distress and you're not actively preaching or teaching say a prayer for the mother's nerves for the father's nerves that's totally within order of the church is to pray for one another 100 % 100 %

Dan what's the name of the app that you guys use for your psalms we use the Book of Psalms for Worship app it's about $10 it has all 150 psalms in about say about 300 different settings it breaks up the psalms and it gives you some music some familiar hymn tunes some that you may not know but each one also gives you a meter so if you know common meter and you see

CM next to a hymn you can sing it to the tune of Amazing Grace and you'll be just fine in fact the one

I've got which is great they've got QR codes for each song so you can go it'll take you to a website where they have recordings of different tunes that's pretty cool that one right there it's not the one we use in our churches but that one he's got is fantastic it seems like today in Christian culture at least in our circles documentaries are a big thing becoming a big thing how many of you saw several years ago the documentary

Divided the Movie have any of you seen that? Divided the

Movie can you remind me because I feel like I've heard of it I want it to be a surprise so my challenge is to you guys and anybody watching

I just saw that it's actually finally on YouTube the full length movie

Divided the Movie on YouTube watch it and come back and we'll discuss and you can let me know what you think about that movie so with that being said

I appreciate you guys so much I appreciate your insight I've been encouraged and I hope everybody that was watching will be encouraged too we always like to end our programs with the

Gospel of Jesus Christ so Brother Randy do you mind to share the Gospel with us tonight and Tyler when he's finished will you pray absolutely first I want to share the bad news the bad news is that there is a holy

God who is just and righteous in all of his ways who is sovereign who created the whole earth and mankind has sinned against that holy

God and because of that every person on earth deserve his judgment deserve his wrath deserve to be eternally separated from him that is the bad news but the good news is because of his abundant love he sent his only begotten son

God in the flesh came to earth lived a perfect life a life of righteousness and full obedience to the

Father and he died taking on the sins of the world and if anyone put their trust in him depend on him as the only hope of salvation call on his name they shall be saved if you repent of your sins and put your faith in him you will be saved you will receive the gift of the

Holy Spirit who will sanctify you cleanse you and make you part of the family of Christ make you part of the church and you will live eternally with him first on earth and then into glory that is the gospel

Father God I thank you for the men that you brought together tonight to discuss something that can be very controversial sometimes when we talk about how the family should function in comparison with how it has functioned for a lot of people when we're talking about a way of doing things in the church that some of us have never seen we don't know this it seems strange and foreign or even upside down sometimes but Lord would you give us the grace and the humility to talk through these things together to be unified to be one just as the

Father and the Son are one even when we talk about children in the church that the prayer of Christ in the garden that we would be one would be made manifest in Christ's precious name we pray amen thank you for watching the labors podcast we appreciate it so much we appreciate your support first and foremost through prayer we're not perfect and we need your prayer we would also appreciate it if you would like share, part, whatever you do on social media and join us join our family in reaching out to our world with the message of Jesus Christ we hope to see you real soon on the next labors podcast thank you for joining the labors podcast remember