October 3, 2016 Show with Tony Miano on “Cross Encounters: A Decade of Gospel Conversations”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors

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Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour

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And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions

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Now here's our host Chris Arnton Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming

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This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron Wishing you all a happy Monday on this third day of October 2016 our first broadcast in October and I'm delighted to have back on the program

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Tony Miano of cross encounters and We are going to be discussing his book which is hot off the press cross encounters a decade of gospel conversations

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron Tony Miano And you know we've done this before But there are always

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People discovering iron sharpens iron for the first time in fact almost daily now

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I get emails from all over the world from people I never heard from before so I'd like to have I'd like to have our listeners here a little bit about yourself again about your own

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Testimony of salvation and your background in law enforcement and so on With my wife of 31 years

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Maria, we have three adult daughters Michelle Marissa who is married and Amanda we're actually in the process of uprooting ourselves from a lifetime in in Southern California to head out to Eastern Iowa to the

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Quad Cities area to be part of Grace Fellowship Church there in Davenport Which has been one of our supporting churches for a couple of years and they've invited us to come out there and make that church

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So we're seeking to do that I've been a follower of Jesus Christ now for oh about 28 years.

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I was Actually grew up in Pennsylvania just outside of Pittsburgh Yeah, my nephew one of my nephews is a professor of American literature at Seton Hill College, which is not far from Okay, yeah,

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I lived there for about 10 years Butler was a at time was a steel mill town but sadly as Our steel industry was sent abroad many of the steel mills there in Pennsylvania have closed up shop long ago

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I was raised Roman Catholic I was taught the

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The fundamentals of who God is and who Jesus Christ is I I believe those things believe those tenets believe that That he was born of the

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Virgin that he is the sinless Son of God that he lived a perfect life that he died on the cross and that three days later

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He rose from the grave. I believe those things as a young boy But for no other reason than I was told to I was raised to believe that all

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Italians go to heaven. So with my name ending in a The Roman Catholic Church was very segregated segregated by nationality and so if you were

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Italian you went to For instance in Butler you went to st. Michael's If you were

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Czechoslovakian or German or Polish or or another Eastern or Western European?

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nationality you would go to the parish of your people and The reason

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I bring that up is that's a one day when I was about eight or nine years old my mom dressed by one of my little sisters up in her

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Sunday dress and and Ordered me to walk her down to the parish closest to the house

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So that she could have her first confession heard My sister had been sick.

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She missed her first confession with her catechism class and In order to have her first communion.

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She had to have her first confession So I begrudgingly walked my sister down to this local parish some

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European nationality and and Set my sister up the stairs she knocked on the door about a 200 year old priest opened the door and and my sister looks up at him and says

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I'm here for my first confession and he looked down at her and said and I'll never forget these words

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Your kind is not welcome here, and he closed the door on her Wow And so that was

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I share that because that's one of my earliest Impressions about who God was

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I believe that he existed I didn't I didn't believe that he particularly loved us or cared about he feared and You know why

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I wouldn't use the term bribe 40 some years ago I believed you know, I'd do good works and be a good kid in order to keep from getting hammered

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The guy represented by the Roman Catholic Church, so we moved out to Southern, California when

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I was about 10 years old and We never again entered the doors of a

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Catholic Church But we but we held on to this notion that we were quote -unquote good

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Catholic and I I Grew up through my teenage years basically unscathed

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I wasn't you know, I wasn't a Hellraiser or anything like that.

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I was you know, quote -unquote a good kid. I got good grades. I played sports I you know sang in the school choir

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I was wicked to the core. I was just better at not getting caught Than some others, but I believe that was a good kid and I got out of high school my first day of community college

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I Met Maria who would later be my wife. She was a churchgoing girl.

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She went to what it's called a Methodist Church I I used it to term that way because I had no idea what

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Methodist meant And I thought well if I'm gonna get the girl

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I better go to church with her and so that's what I did I started going to the Methodist Church to get the girl they

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They found out I have a pretty low voice can sing bass baritone They needed voices in the choir.

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So they sprinkled me into their denomination You know, no need for testimony or anything like that I could think and they had a rope my side with a cross on the front and so they sprinkled me into the church and I started to sing in the choir

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Not long after that Maria and I got married I got hired by the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department where I spent 20 years my life

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We soon started making babies, which is what all good Italians are supposed to do

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So I thought well, I'm the full package. What is there not to love about me? Why why would

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God not, you know, welcome me in the heaven My name is

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Navarro. I'm making babies. I sing in the choir and I've got a gun in the badge and I'm saving the world.

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So what's there not to like so one night? I'm early in my you know, my first year my career.

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I'm working in the LA County Jail system Largest County Jail system in the country and I overhear one of my sergeants someone

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I looked up to professionally somebody was mentoring me Early in my career and I overheard him talking

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To a couple other deputies about his Christian faith so I thought well, I'll impress the sergeant with this and But at the end of the conversation

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I said, hey, I'm a Christian. I sing in the choir and And The sergeant looked at me and he smiled that wasn't condescending wasn't flippant wasn't sarcastic

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Mildly said two words. He said that's nice and And I immediately

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I remember immediately turning around walking away Knowing at that moment what another hypocrite

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I was Wow. I I knew I knew I wasn't a Christian I had no idea what it meant to be one

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But I knew that I was just I was lying to myself and that the and the sergeant saw right through that and and So that started this

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This Self -imposed journey of trying to figure out what what a Christian is and so I thought well, you know maybe

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I'll find it in the Bible and I wasn't much of a reader at the time and those pages are real fit

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And so I just went to the back of the book like I did in high school for the cliff notes and I read the book.

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I started reading the book of Revelation And I read about Beasts coming out of the water and bowls of judgment and it reminded me

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I'm pretty you know 40 some years ago, and I thought I don't want anything to do with that But thankfully it was that it was that sergeant

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Who would ultimately share the gospel with me? In no uncertain terms making it clear to me that I thought

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I wasn't a good person. I wasn't the full package There was nothing that committed me to God that if God gave me what

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I deserve For my sins against him, it would be eternity in hell He wasn't going to weigh the good against the bad because there was no good in me

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And then he shared with me the truth about the cross That God the

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Father sent his son to earth and the person of Jesus Christ fully God fully man without sin

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Lived a life of perfection for some 33 years that I couldn't live for 33 seconds

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Voluntarily went to the cross suffered and died a death He didn't deserve and forever defeated sin and death when he rose from the grave

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And my only hope wasn't Jesus plus Tony or Jesus plus church or Jesus plus anything but faith in Christ alone

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That I could have any hope my only hope for forgiveness has been and so on September 4th 1988

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I Cried out to the Lord. I can't remember What I prayed what I said,

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I cried out to him asked for his forgiveness Asked him to save me and and And I believe at that moment

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Moment he did and praise God. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I shared this with you before Chris, but that sergeant who shared the gospel with me and would be my spiritual mentor not as well as my professional mentor he would

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He would leave I would go to his Bible study in his home he was one of the elders and the first church

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Maria and I ever attended together as believers and Within a year of me coming to faith in Christ.

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He proved to be a false convert Wow leaving his wife committing adultery leaving the department and Leaving his family and and the church and and that was really a

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Devastating time for me because I had put so much stock in What Christianity and what

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Christians are Who they are based on what I saw in this man's life that when it all proved to be a lie

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It really caught me to question the validity of my own faith but I thank

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God for a pastor and other men at the time who rallied around me and and And taught me that regardless of what

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I see in man It doesn't change God or what his expectations are for us and that is to repent believe the gospel

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Amen, isn't it amazing how God will even use? The pagan at times when they profess to be

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Christian to lead us to salvation In fact, I even know I know people who became

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Christians as the result of Jehovah's Witnesses coming to their doorstep Wow Because they got them to read their

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Bible. It got them To start to dig into the scriptures and so on No, I don't you mentioned before that at the time

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You didn't know what a Methodist was I don't this is just a quick segue here.

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Did you ever see? the river runs through it the movie a River runs through it

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Yeah, well the if you recall the Presbyterian pastor who was a father of two boys

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One of the boys asked his father what's a Methodist and he said that's a

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Baptist who can read And of course, it's

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I am a Reformed Baptist and it's sad that many of our Presbyterian brothers still think that way But But it's interesting that this this fellow police officer who was professing to be a

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Christian who Turned out to be a false convert and I'll ask you for an update on him in a little bit

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But what did he see in you that made him immediately recognize that you were not a

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Christian? Yeah, I I really I I can't remember that conversation now that long ago.

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I really don't know what it was I think it was I don't I don't know if he

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I don't know if he knew at that moment But I knew at that moment and the way he answered me, you know, he you know, we we had

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There was a saying out on the streets when I worked patrol Chris because you know it we we dealt with so many people that lied to us all the time and It was and the thing was

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I know you're lying because your lips are moving And he and he just had that look on his face and again with the condescending or flipping or anything

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He just had that look on his face and the way he said, that's nice. I walked away thinking.

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Well, I know I'm lost He must know I'm lost. We both know I'm lost. What does it mean to be lost? And And you know again he would communicate the gospel to me

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I remember coming out I remember the night The night after the Lord saved me coming to work that next night and And one of the things

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I had developed as a young deputy sheriff was a language that would make a sailor blush and I was told by the older deputies that if you want to get through to these inmates

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You've got to be able to talk like them and you know You got to be able to outsmart them be smarter than them be tougher than them

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And so my language my vocabulary so Deteriorated that I think the f -word was my only adverb adjective

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Pronoun conjunction. I mean that that seemed to be all I would ever say and I got to work that next night

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Chris And and I tried to talk the way I usually did But I couldn't and it wasn't that I wasn't

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Physically able but the thought of those words coming out of my mouth all of a sudden Repulsed me

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Wow, and I mean I immediately thought That that there was something wrong with me.

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I I didn't attribute it to the Holy Spirit. I didn't attribute it to to God saving my life because I had no idea what any of that really meant and then later that night

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Chris we had a tradition of practice all those years ago in the county jail that we called court and And You know, we had we had maybe a dozen deputies

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Controlling or at least thinking that we were controlling an open medium security compound with some 1 ,200 inmates so about a hundred inmates for every deputy and we had a we had a key block and a flashlight and that was our protection and and so we couldn't allow inmates to Bully us to get out of line to make them think that they ran the place even though at any moment they could totally overrun the place and there was nothing we could do to stop them and So we had this practice called court

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Where at the end of the night after the evening count if there were inmates who had given us trouble during the day

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We would pull them out of their dorms and we would re -educate them

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Going stepping right on that fine line between discipline or abuse and and It was it was almost like sport at times

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And so that night Chris after I came to faith in Christ, I'm sitting in the the open compound there while the other deputies were doing the count and a couple of them came out to me and said hey

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Tony it's time for court and and I got up to join them and I found myself sitting back down on my chair and I'm asking myself

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What are you doing? Why are you sitting down and a moment or two later? They noticed I wasn't walking with them.

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They turned around said hey Tony. Come on. Let's go We've got a couple of guys we have to deal with and and I'm fighting it

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Chris. I'm saying don't don't Do you ever see the movie The Sandlot? No, I did not

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Okay Well, some of our listeners might know

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Okay, all right well if you for those who've seen The Sandlot Scotty's Falls the the the kid who

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Got a plastic glove and a giant trout, you know giant fishing hat with a bill four times too long and Just a little nerdy kid new to the neighborhood loves baseball can't play it

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He's walking out into the outfield and he's telling himself. Don't be a doofus. Don't be a doofus.

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Don't be a doofus And it that that While I'm sitting there outside the compound of the jumping don't say it don't say it, you know, don't say it and There's and the deputies said well, come on Tony.

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Let's go and I said now guys. I became a Christian last night I don't think God wants me to do those things anymore and And I can't

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I couldn't believe that those words were coming out of my mouth And they started to laugh.

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They thought it was funny. You know that that Tony Miano would become a Christian And they said, okay, that's funny.

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Let's go and I said no, you know, if you guys get into a fight or something like that I'm not gonna let you get hurt.

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You need help. I'm gonna come help you but yeah, I don't I don't think God wants me doing stuff like that anymore and Almost immediately.

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I lost just about every friend I had that worked there at the jails with me and Notes like Jesus freak written on the chalkboard in the briefing room

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Wow notes notes in my mailbox and and And it was a very difficult time, but it was that same sergeant and a few other

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Deputies who were Christians there that that rallied around me and helped me through those

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Those first few months. I remember Chris before I went to work that night, you know my wife Who wasn't yet saved although she had been a church -going girl her whole life

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You know, I I told her I thought I had become a Christian and she looked at me and said well How much is that gonna cost?

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Thinking that this was going to be another hobby or something and I thought well,

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I don't think it's going to cost me anything and I was only thinking monetarily I had no idea, you know that there was a truly a cost for following Christ, but that first night

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Back to work after after I believe the Lord saved me. There was almost an immediate cost for Saying that I was a

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Christian hmm, and It is interesting that you know, you like just like your fellow police officers and even many

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Christians Which is even more disturbing when people who should know better have this attitude there is some kind of this

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Mindset that to be a Christian Means you will be less courageous

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That you will be Less Protective of others and so on that you will be somehow more of a coward.

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You'll be weak. You'll be effeminate or whatever the adjectives could be and I don't mean to step on your toes if you're

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Voting for Donald Trump. I don't know if you are or not But but it disturbs me when I've heard even a pastor a very well -known pastor in,

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Texas say I'm not voting for Sunday school teacher.

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I'm voting for president of the United States Now, why is it that a man?

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Who knows his Bible at least enough? To teach children and to guide children in the faith

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Why is that looked upon as some kind of an ineffective? Man that is lacking courage and lacking conviction lacking strength

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Lanking lacking power and so on in my opinion Why are you rallying behind somebody so excitedly in public?

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To be the leader of the free world if they don't even have the qualifications to teach children in a Sunday school but In the presidential election, right,

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I don't I don't buy the The idea of voting for a lesser of two evils both of the presumptive candidates are as wicked as the day is long and When I hear

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Christians say, you know, we're we're not electing a pastor. We're electing a president All they're saying to me how

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I translate that is is that the world sets the standards for character not the Bible, right and Why on earth would you not want the the character set out?

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The guidelines for character required for an overseer in the church that Paul lays out in his letter to Timothy Obviously, there are certain things that involve theology and doctrine that we would not insist upon But why would you not want the character qualifications of a leader that God?

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Divinely inspired why wouldn't you insist that those be the character qualifications of the leader of your country?

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Especially if you are out in public rallying behind them there's a difference between that and going into the privacy of your

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Voting booth taking a deep breath. And if you are convicted that the lesser of two evils is the

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The better way to go in your conviction before God then I understand that but when you're a publicly enthusiastically

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Supporting somebody you don't even want them to have the the basic core minimum requirements of a character and morality that that God himself requires of a pastor

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Evangelism I think you'd be surprised at how many open -air preachers Don't want to apply that standard to open -air preachers

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Really the only the only standard we have for leadership and character that is

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God given is what we see in the pastoral epistles and Whether or not a man aspires to be an elder

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He should certainly aspire to have the character of an elder and if we're going to pick leaders for our

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Country or for a church or for a parachurch ministry or for a man heralding the gospel on the street ought he not

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Be a man that lives up to those character principles that we see in Scripture Amen Amen We are going to be going to a break right now

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And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question for Tony Miano Our email address is

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Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. In fact, some of you may be wondering why

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Tony brought up street preaching Well that happens to be right now one of his major callings in life for a number of years

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He has been known as an open -air or street preacher or a street evangelist

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And in fact, I first met him in Florida at a conference Organized primarily by those involved in open -air evangelism

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So we're going to be hearing more about that and we're going to be also hearing about his book

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That I mentioned at the outset of the program cross encounters a decade of gospel conversations

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But if you'd like to join us, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

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Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA and If it makes you feel more comfortable to remain anonymous, we will honor that request

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But if you can we would appreciate at least getting your first name city state and country

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If you live outside the USA, so don't go away. We're gonna be right back after these messages I'm Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio

27:33

And here's one of my favorite guests Todd Friel to tell you about a conference. He and I are going to hello, this is

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Todd Friel host of wretched radio and a wretched a TV and Occasional guest on Chris's show

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Think I think that's what it's called Hoping that you can join Chris and me at the g3 conference in Atlanta My new hometown it is going to be a bang -up conference called the g3 conference celebrating the 500th anniversary of the

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Protestant Reformation with Paul Washer Steve Lawson da Carson Vodie. Welcome Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson James White and a bunch of other people

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We hope to see you there learn more at g3 conference .com g3 conference .com

28:23

Hahaha, thanks Todd, I think see you at the iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth

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That's wrbc .us. Welcome back.

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This is Chris Arnzen. And if you just tuned us in, our guest today is Tony Miano.

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We are going to be discussing his new book, Cross Encounters, A Decade of Gospel Conversations.

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And we are actually coming to the point in the discussion on why he wrote this book to begin with.

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And there is something that came about in your life, Tony, where you believed you had a calling to be an open -air evangelist or street preacher.

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How did those circumstances come about? Well, my story is going to be pretty familiar to many people, at least those who are aware of Ray Comfort and his ministry at Living Water.

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There are literally thousands of people around the world with stories similar to mine as to how they were introduced to biblical evangelism and, for some of us, open -air preaching.

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And that was through Ray's ministry. I had served as a church planter for a couple of years and then moved into full -time missionary ministry to the law enforcement community.

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And as I did that, I picked up and read one of Ray's books. I think it was an earlier version of The Way of the

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Master, and at the time it was called Militant Evangelism. And it looked like it was printed in someone's garage.

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And I think at the time, Ray was printing his books in his garage. And the cover had what looked like a

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Russian general with a mustache similar to mine, a picture of a tank with the gun exploding, firing off around.

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So that resonated with me, and so I opened up the book and started reading it. And he talked about using the law in evangelism and the importance of being out on the streets proclaiming the gospel, either in conversation or through the distribution of tracts, or open -air preaching was something completely foreign to me.

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And I had first been given the book somewhere around 1994.

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A friend of mine who was also on the department went to the same church that Ray was going to at the time, and he gave me three of Ray's books,

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Militant Evangelism, All My Friends Are Dying, and The Ultimate Deception were the three books.

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And I had no idea who Ray Comfort was at the time, knew nothing about him, but he had taken the time to sign the books.

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And so whether I read them or not, I was going to keep them just in case this guy was famous or something. And the first time

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I opened the book, back in the early 90s, my church was going through a purpose -driven church by Rick Warren.

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And so when I first started to read that book, Militant Evangelism, I didn't see anything about friendship evangelism, or service evangelism, or no -strings -attached barbecues, or anything like that.

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And reading about the law and open -air preaching, I thought, nah, this could never work. And so I closed the book, but I held onto it because it was fine.

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Ten years later, in 2004, I picked up the book again and started to read it.

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And as the Lord would have it, my eyes, the scales as far as evangelism fell from my eyes.

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I saw that what Ray was putting forth was a biblical approach to evangelism.

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And so I noticed at the end of the book there was a website, and I wondered if this guy who wrote the book was still alive.

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And so I went to the website, and sure enough, he was still alive.

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His ministry was still going, and now he was working with this guy named Kirk Cameron. Now, I couldn't stand

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Kirk Cameron. Now, this is long before I met him, but I mean the character.

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You know, his character on the show Growing Tangerine. Right, I never even watched the program, although I was aware of its existence,

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I never watched it. Yeah, well, I did. I watched it with my family, and I couldn't stand the guy.

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You know, he's just a guy on the high school campus that if you're a jock or something like that, you just want to stick the guy in a trash can.

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You know, he's kind of weaselly, but he's got all the girls around him, and I thought, yeah, this guy needs to be pumped.

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And so I see that Kirk Cameron's working with him, and I thought, oh, that's kind of interesting to know that Kirk Cameron was a

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Christian. And at the time, one of Rick's new books was What Hollywood Believes.

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And so I got that, got my first pack of gospel tracts, read the book, started handing out some tracts.

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And at the time, I was working on my first book, Take Up the

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Shield, which is a devotional commentary on Ephesians 6 and the armor of God, and comparing that to law enforcement equipment and what have you.

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And so as the Lord would have it, one of the ladies who publishes a lot of Rick Cufford's work agreed to publish my book.

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And so that led to me actually going down to Living Waters, getting a chance to meet

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Ray face -to -face. And over the next few years,

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I became friends with him and the brothers and sisters who served with him down at that wonderful ministry.

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And so I'm handing out more tracts, and I'm starting to engage people in conversation.

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But something's gnawing at me, and I keep watching all these videos of Ray preaching. And I knew that that was probably something

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I should at least try to do. And I kept bugging him and Scotty about where I should go, how

36:41

I should do it. And eventually, it was Scotty who, during one phone call, said, Would you just swallow your fear and go do it?

36:49

And I said, Well, if you're going to be that way, okay. So I picked a spot 60 miles from home, because I was still serving as a chaplain with the

36:59

Sheriff's Department. And the last thing I wanted is for a call of a crazy guy howling on the street corner, and for a couple of my deputies to show up and find their chaplain on the street corner.

37:12

So I picked a spot 60 miles away. I took my wife and my youngest daughter, who was about 10 at the time, and dragged them along with me.

37:22

We took an EasyUp, put up a table with Bibles and tracts. That took about an hour. And then

37:28

I mustered the courage to tell my wife to take our daughter and to walk over to the beach.

37:35

I picked a park near the beach. And go tell people I'm giving away money if they answer trivia questions.

37:45

And Maria looked at me and said, Oh, no, no, no, no. We came to support you, but not to actually support you.

37:51

We're not here to do anything. We're just here. And, you know, being the mature, biblical, godly leader of my home,

38:03

I said, Look, honey, if you don't go do this, we're going to drive home, and we wasted 120 miles of gas.

38:10

So I see Maria literally dragging Amanda toward the sunset, toward the beach.

38:17

They go over a rise onto the beach, and they're out of sight. And I have this very spiritual conversation with the

38:25

Lord. Lord, you have 10 minutes. If there's not a crowd here within 10 minutes,

38:30

I'm going to take that as a sign that I should never do this again. And within a couple of minutes, like ants to a picnic, come 30 to 40 teenagers almost in a run from the beach to where I'm standing.

38:47

And what I would find out later is that Maria interrupted a sweet 16 party on the beach.

38:56

And she didn't say, My husband's over here giving away money for trivia. She said,

39:03

Some guy in the park is giving away money. So you take the offer of free money and a group of teenagers, and you have this big crowd.

39:19

And so they gather around me. At that moment, I would have rather have been in the darkened alley with armed gangbangers down at the other end than what

39:29

I was about to do. And I got up on that box and asked some trivia questions as Ray taught me.

39:39

And it was time to take someone through what Ray calls the good person test. And so I looked through the crowd, and I picked the wimpiest looking kid

39:47

I could find. So if it went bad, I knew I could fake it. And I take him through the good person test, and I share the gospel.

39:56

It must have been all of 10 minutes that all of this took place with the questions and what have you.

40:02

And when I was done, the kids just kind of stood there looking at me. And I literally started to shoo them away like,

40:09

Look, I've given you all I've got. That's it. I'm done. I'm going home. But some of them

40:16

Chris had questions, like real questions. Sincere questions, not argumentative.

40:22

Some of them wanted Bibles and tracts. And I remember driving home that day, literally crying tears of repentance for the year or two it took for me to get the courage up to actually do it.

40:38

And I knew at that moment, Chris, that somehow, someway, I was going to spend the rest of my life preaching the gospel.

40:44

Amen. Amen. And I'm assuming that you would not encourage people to follow your wife's example in order to bring people to church or to hear people at a street preaching or anything like that.

41:00

Yes. And we already have some listeners waiting to have their questions asked.

41:10

Okay. We have Larry in Columbus, Wisconsin, who's a first -time questioner.

41:17

I don't know if he's a first -time listener, but he's a first -time questioner. And his question is,

41:22

What are your thoughts on women open -air preaching the gospel? Well, let's get the big one out of the way first,

41:29

I guess. I actually wrote, it's called,

41:44

Should She Preach? Biblical Evangelism for Women. And that's available through Amazon.

41:51

And I had the help of eight different pastors with that book.

41:56

The first eight chapters are my own study and argument against women preaching in the open air.

42:03

And then the last eight chapters are, each pastor has a chapter, basically affirming and adding to the argument

42:14

I put forward in the first eight. And that includes men like Phil Johnson, Steve Lawson, and Jeff Kirkland, and a number of other godly men that I respect.

42:29

And my argument in the book is that women should not open -air preach for three reasons.

42:39

One, it goes against God's design for men and women.

42:45

Two, women should not be exercising spiritual authority over men, not merely in the context of a

42:55

Sunday morning gathering, but in any context. God has not given women the authority to exercise spiritual authority over men.

43:09

And then thirdly, it goes against God's design for Christian women to have a gentle and quiet spirit.

43:20

And, you know, I'm not going to put forth the 280 pages on your show for the book.

43:29

Well, we can have you back to do that. Sure. But, you know, Chris, for the purpose of full disclosure, and I say so in the book, but, you know, part of the reason why

43:40

I wrote the book was an act of repentance.

43:46

Because for many, many years I encouraged women to open -air preach.

43:52

I probably taught upward of 200 women to open -air preach.

43:58

And I was at a large -scale outreach event where we had a number of different teams and men and women were preaching.

44:10

And I remember watching this one lady, a dear lady, I don't question her salvation for a second, love her as a sister, but I watched her interact with a male heckler, and it looked like she was about ready to get into a bar fight.

44:28

Wow. And it immediately struck me that that is not how

44:37

Christian women ought to be acting. And I'm watching Christian men, godly men, good, solid men, along with me, standing around watching this take place, as opposed to protecting our sister and pulling her out of that situation.

45:02

And so that really got me to thinking about my position on women open -air preaching as a whole.

45:12

And so I began to study all of the texts that I would use to defend women open -air preaching, and I found that I was mishandling those texts.

45:26

For instance, one common argument in favor of women open -air preaching is the woman at the well.

45:34

That after Christ proclaimed the truth to her and identified himself as the

45:40

Messiah, she ran to the village and said, come and see the man who told me everything that I ever did.

45:47

There's no indication in the text whatsoever that she preached. No indication in the text whatsoever that she communicated the gospel to her village.

45:57

None whatsoever. The word preach is not found anywhere in the text. There's no indication from the context that she preached, and so that can't be used to support women open -air preaching.

46:09

Another text that is misused today, one that I misuse, is the idea of the women who went to the tomb.

46:18

The women were first to see the empty tomb, to see the resurrected Lord. They went back to the disciples and declared him to be risen from the grave.

46:30

That wasn't open -air preaching. There wasn't any indication that they preached to the disciples.

46:37

The disciples at the time were cowering inside a house. They certainly weren't doing it in the open air, but again, there's no indication in the text that the women who were at the tomb engaged in any form of open -air preaching.

46:56

We don't have an example in Scripture of a woman open -air preaching. While we have many examples throughout the

47:04

Old and the New Testament of men heralding the gospel. So no, my position is that women should not open -air preach, but that is not to say that women ought not be engaged in evangelism.

47:22

They most certainly should be. In the book I also lay out biblical ways that women can be involved in evangelism, including one -to -one conversations, distribution of tracts, communicating with people online, and a host of other ways.

47:41

But open -air preaching, like preaching from a pulpit, is and should be limited to men.

47:48

Now, when you had this egalitarian view of open -air preachers, before you came to a different understanding, did you also have an egalitarian view of the role of women in the church and in the home?

48:04

Or was this specifically only for open -air preachers, that you had the view that women had the liberty to do that?

48:14

Great question, Chris. My view, I've always held a complementarian view regarding the home and the church, but I made allowances for egalitarianism in open -air preaching.

48:27

And I used all the same arguments everyone else did, that women are only to be quiet in the church on Sunday morning, women are men's equals, spiritually speaking.

48:43

And after studying the Scriptures, I found all the arguments

48:48

I used to be wrong, to be baseless according to Scripture. Now, men and women are equal, spiritually speaking.

48:57

Men and women, Christian men and women, have the same spiritual dignity, but Scripture makes it clear that we have different roles.

49:08

And the fact that we have different roles doesn't make men better than women, or women subjugated to men.

49:16

God has created us differently, and he's created us for different roles. In fact, a woman is not biblically permitted to assume the leadership role in the home, even if her husband is lost.

49:30

That's right. That's right. Absolutely right. Yeah, there's no, Scripture gives no caveat for the structure of the home if the husband is lost, or if the wife is lost, because these roles go back to creation itself.

49:52

When the Fall took place, part of Eve, part of the curse that Eve received was that she would desire for her husband.

50:01

And that wasn't a sexual desire, it was a desire to usurp his authority. And we have seen that played out in cultures throughout the world ever since the days of the

50:15

Fall. We have the women's liberation movement, we have the feminist movement, which sadly has made great inroads into the visible church, but all of that is a product of the

50:30

Fall. It's not a good thing, it's not man evolving forward, it's mankind continuing to be denigrated by the curse of the

50:42

Fall. What is your view, because I may have a different opinion than yours, since I haven't heard it yet, but I believe that it is completely acceptable and right and good for a woman to give her testimony of salvation publicly, like for instance, the

51:05

G3 conference features Rosaria Butterfield, she is not preaching, she is going to be giving her testimony, and I have benefited greatly from reading her two books, and I have other sisters in Christ who are dear friends, who are very gifted writers, and even speakers, but in fact the majority, if not all of these women who are close friends of mine, are very strong in their complementarian position, they very much oppose egalitarianism, and they believe in male headship in the church and the home, but at the same time believe they have the liberty to use their gifts publicly in a speaking engagement without preaching.

51:48

Yeah, I agree with you, and the first woman that comes to mind for me is

51:53

Johnny Erickson Tata. Yeah, and John McArthur and his congregation. Right, exactly, yeah, and she has shared her testimony, she has shared words of encouragement at the

52:06

Shepherds Conference before, and I've been very blessed by her ministry.

52:13

So yeah, and again, I'm not trying to, as I know you're not,

52:19

I'm not trying to simply split hairs to make room for ladies I like, who I want to hear speak, but there is certainly a difference between standing in a pulpit, or standing on a box on the street, opening up the word of God, teaching it, and commanding people to repent and believe.

52:42

You know, it is an exercise of authority, there's no ifs, ands, or buts about it, there is an exercise of authority in the preaching of God's word, and the public proclamation of the gospel, that God simply has not given to women to exercise.

53:02

That does not mean women can never speak, that does not mean there isn't a place for the Rosaria Butterfields, or the

53:11

Johnny Erickson Tatas, or other fine, godly women like that.

53:18

I greatly appreciate their ministries. By the way, Larry, you are receiving a free

53:25

New American Standard Bible, beautiful edition of the New American Standard Bible, that is not quite pocket -sized, but it could fit in a coat pocket, easily be carried in a briefcase, and so on.

53:39

A really beautiful edition of it, with an embossed cross on the cover, and we just need your full mailing address, and we will get that out to you in Columbus, Wisconsin, as soon as possible.

53:52

It will be shipped to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com,

53:58

that's CV for Cumberland Valley, BBS for BibleBookService .com, who ship out all of our free

54:04

Bibles and books to listeners who win them by submitting questions, and of course we also want to thank the publishers of the

54:11

New American Standard Bible for supplying that. We have another listener in Lyndonhurst, Long Island, New York, CJ, who asks,

54:21

What is your opinion on women preaching to exclusively female audiences? Yeah, I don't have any problem with that whatsoever.

54:35

I'm uncomfortable with some of these women conferences due to the fact that there are so many women being drawn to bad teachers.

54:48

Women like Beth Moore and Joyce Meyer and others.

54:55

And so I'm concerned about these mega conferences for women that are drawing a lot of Christian women to be influenced by some of the worst false teachers out there right now.

55:14

That being said, I've certainly seen no biblical mandate against women teaching women.

55:26

In fact, we see it in Titus 2, that the older women ought to be teaching the younger women.

55:33

You know, women leading women's Bible studies, teaching the

55:40

Bible to other women, completely acceptable, completely biblical. I don't have a problem with that whatsoever.

55:46

Well, the listener, CJ, specifically asked about preaching. I'm assuming he means full -throated evangelism in a preaching style, perhaps raising the voice and all that in an exclusively female setting.

56:02

Well, yeah, I don't think there would be any problem with that. Now, again,

56:09

I'm not talking about open -air preaching. It's a women's conference, and a woman stands up and says,

56:15

Open up your Bible to John 3, and she's going to teach verse by verse out of John 3 to a group of women.

56:22

I don't have any problem with that whatsoever. Okay, we have Harrison in Mechanicsburg, Long Island, New York, who asks,

56:33

I've heard about the word -of -faith leanings of one of the ladies that you mentioned as far as being a false teacher, but what is the problem with Beth Moore?

56:48

I have not heard about her aberrant tendencies. Well, Beth Moore began to slip off the rail several years ago when she started to practice and endorse contemplative prayer, which was really popular a number of years ago.

57:09

Basically, it's mysticism. But she's now taken on partnership and friendship with Joyce Meyer, who preaches a different gospel outright, who believes that Jesus had to go— and again, this is

57:28

Joyce Meyer. I haven't heard Beth Moore say this yet, but Joyce Meyer, like so many word -of -faith heretics, believes that Jesus had to go to hell to suffer for three days, and his atoning work wasn't accomplished on the cross.

57:43

Joyce Meyer, another word -of -faith heretic, believes that our words are a force, that we have the power to create by uttering words.

57:54

Last time I checked, the word of God gives room for only one creator, and that is

58:00

God. And so she's aligning herself with these heretics.

58:05

She's also now cozying up with TBN, the

58:13

Trinity Broadcast Network, which is basically a harbinger for just about every form of bad teaching you can think of.

58:20

And Beth Moore has now also taken up prophecy, where she is now giving her audience extra -biblical revelation that she believes she's receiving directly from God.

58:36

And I believe the word of God, the canon, is closed, that if you want to hear

58:43

God speak, read the Bible. If you want to hear him speak audibly, read the

58:49

Bible aloud. Beth Moore is not getting new revelation from God, because new revelation has to be added to Scripture.

59:02

If it's the word of God, we have to declare it in Scripture. And Beth Moore is not receiving new

59:10

Scripture from the Lord. And so this is making her wildly popular, and she's filling even more seats in her conferences and performances.

59:24

But I would urge any sister in Christ to stay as far away from Beth Moore as possible.

59:33

Right, and as it is with many false teachers, you may hear a segment of some of them speaking where they may be profound and biblically accurate and right on the money, but you have to take into consideration the whole ministry and where they go astray, because obviously even the devil occasionally speaks the truth.

59:56

That's right. And we have to go to another break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air, we still have some of you waiting to have your questions asked, and I thank you for your patience.

01:00:05

We'll get to you as soon as possible. But if you'd like to join them and have your own question asked and answered on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:00:17

chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We're going to be right back with Tony Miano. Chris Arnson here, and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta, Georgia.

01:00:31

And here's my friend Dr. James White to tell you why. Hi, I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

01:00:36

I hope you join me at the G3 Conference hosted by Pastor Josh Bice and Praise Mill Baptist Church at the

01:00:43

Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta, January 19th through the 21st, in celebration of the 500th anniversary of the

01:00:51

Protestant Reformation. I'll be joined by Paul Washer, Steve Lawson, D .A. Carson, Vody Balcom, Conrad Mbewe, Phil Johnson, Rosaria Butterfield, Todd Friel, and a host of other speakers who are dedicated to the pillars of what

01:01:06

G3 stands for, gospel, grace, and glory. For more details, go to g3conference .com.

01:01:13

That's g3conference .com. Thanks, James. Make sure you greet me at the

01:01:18

Iron Sharpens Iron exhibit booth while you're there. Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

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01:01:36

He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

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01:03:40

Lindbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lindbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

01:03:47

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

01:03:54

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

01:04:02

We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.

01:04:08

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lindbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

01:04:15

Call Lindbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit

01:04:23

LindbrookBaptist .org. That's LindbrookBaptist .org. Welcome back and I want to personally thank

01:04:28

Lindbrook Baptist Church in Lindbrook, Long Island for actually sending me down to Atlanta, Georgia for the upcoming

01:04:35

G3 Conference. They're actually paying for my flight down there and I'm so happy and grateful that they are doing that because I was excited to hear about this conference and I'm delighted that they have helped make that a reality.

01:04:52

So just keep in mind if you're ever visiting the Nassau County, Long Island area, you might want to visit

01:05:00

Lindbrook Baptist Church in Lindbrook, Long Island if you're there on a Sunday. We have as our guest today, as many of you already know who have been listening, if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is

01:05:13

Tony Miano of Cross Encounters and we are discussing his new book, Cross Encounters, A Decade of Gospel Conversations.

01:05:21

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com

01:05:30

and we have someone using an alias, Lam Lam, interesting nickname she has emailed us in the past.

01:05:39

Lam Lam from Valley Stream, Long Island, New York and she asks, In terms of one -on -one encounters and conversations during evangelism, should it be limited to same -gender one -on -one initiation and should we go two -by -two as Jesus sent out the disciples and the beneficial reasons to that in comparison to just going single?

01:06:07

Yeah, good question. And again, that's another question

01:06:13

I answer in the book, Should She Preach? Yeah, I think it's good that we go out in pairs or small groups for the sake of accountability, for the sake of physical protection.

01:06:32

We do live in a world that hates Jesus Christ. If they do not know

01:06:40

Jesus Christ as their Lord and their Savior, they do not love God. They are not children of God and they are enemies of God and that can put you into harm's way as you're trying to communicate truth to lost people, whether you're in one of the safest communities in the country or in one of the most dangerous communities in the country.

01:07:06

There are people who hate God, people who don't want to hear the message, people who will physically try to hurt those who are communicating the gospel.

01:07:16

So certainly it is a benefit to have other people with you when you're out on the streets sharing the gospel.

01:07:27

At the same time, I don't see anywhere in Scripture where we are told,

01:07:33

Go and make disciples of every nation so long as you can go with other people. While certainly for pragmatic reasons it would be best to go out with the group, if you can't find anyone to go out with you, that doesn't mean we should just stay at home and not communicate the gospel.

01:07:54

That doesn't mean a lady should be going into a bad part of town all by herself. The Lord has told us to be ready to lay down our lives, but nowhere in Scripture does

01:08:04

He tell us to throw them away. So we should be practical, we should exercise the common sense

01:08:12

God has given us. But there are times when you simply can't have anyone else go out with you, and we need to go out there and communicate the gospel.

01:08:25

Chris, much of my evangelism, at least when I'm at home, because I travel about 100 days a year, but when

01:08:33

I'm at home, much of my evangelism I do alone. I'm committed to not doing evangelism at night when

01:08:41

I'm at home, because that is my time for my wife and my daughters. And so because I do much of my evangelism locally during the day, most people can't go out with me because they're either in school or they're at work or what have you.

01:08:57

So I spend quite a bit of time out on the streets by myself. I can't stay at home and wait for other people's schedules to open up.

01:09:08

So some things I do for my own protection, now granted, just like body armor, there's no such thing as a bulletproof vest.

01:09:18

They are all bullet resistant. And so the things I'm going to suggest do not make you bulletproof in any way, but I always make sure to have either a digital recorder with me or a video camera with me.

01:09:35

I use a GoPro and harnesses so that I can have hands -free operation or what have you.

01:09:42

I do that not only to capture moments that I can share with others, but for my own protection.

01:09:49

People are less likely to do anything stupid or illegal or both on camera.

01:09:58

Not that that's always the case. And particularly if I'm having conversations with a female,

01:10:08

I don't want her to be able to make any accusations of any kind of wrongdoing or be propositioning her or saying something inappropriate or something like that.

01:10:19

And so I always try to have those conversations recorded. As far as talking to members of the opposite sex,

01:10:30

I think it's good that we have accountability there with us. But again, you may not always be able to.

01:10:38

And I firmly believe that everybody needs to hear the gospel.

01:10:45

Men, women, young, old, whatever the case may be. And if I have an opportunity to share the gospel with a woman and there's no one with me,

01:10:57

I'm going to make sure to do it in an appropriate way, in a public place, to do everything

01:11:04

I can to remain above reproach. But I'm not going to keep the gospel from a woman simply because she's a member of the opposite sex.

01:11:13

So all of that to say, I think we need to exercise wisdom and discernment. I think we need to be careful, use a great deal of common sense.

01:11:23

Certainly if a Christian man or Christian woman struggles with lust or anything like that, it would be best for them not to be engaging members of the opposite sex, certainly not alone, or if they don't have accountability there with them.

01:11:42

So you're just basically saying a man shouldn't do that, then? What's that? So you're basically just saying a man shouldn't do that, then?

01:11:51

In other words, we all struggle with lust to some degree or another. Yeah, right.

01:11:57

But for instance, Chris, if a man is a quote -unquote recovering alcoholic, it's probably not a good idea for him to be doing ministry in bars at 2 in the morning.

01:12:09

Right. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. And so again, we should use the wisdom and discernment

01:12:19

God has given us as redeemed people, but we ought not fear communicating

01:12:27

Christ to members of the opposite sex, because everybody needs to hear the gospel.

01:12:34

Amen. And that would probably be a good idea also to keep the— especially if you're with a member of the opposite sex— to keep the conversation exclusively driven towards that to prevent other things coming up in conversation.

01:12:50

Yeah, absolutely. Because you're probably not going to have a more intimate conversation with someone than a conversation about their soul.

01:12:59

Right. And so yeah, you want to safeguard your own heart, you want to safeguard the heart of the other person.

01:13:08

And so yes, you want to make sure that those conversations remain focused on the law and the gospel and do everything you can to guard yourself from even the hint of impropriety.

01:13:25

Yeah. I have a friend, you may even know him, Jim Eliff of Christian Communicators Worldwide.

01:13:32

Uh -huh. But he's a remarkable brother, and he preached at the church where I was a member, where I actually got saved and baptized and married back in the 1980s.

01:13:46

Calvary Baptist Church of Amityville, which is now Grace Reform Baptist Church of Merrick, Long Island.

01:13:52

But he—and I'm not saying something that he intended to remain private— he actually includes this story in his public ministry where he preaches and teaches.

01:14:04

But his father was a counselor at a major Southern Baptist congregation.

01:14:11

It was one of the largest in the United States. And his father made the fatal flaw of beginning to counsel women alone, and his own dad wound up falling in love, quote -unquote, with a married woman who was having marital problems, and she reciprocated.

01:14:31

The two had an affair. He was dismissed from the church, and they wound up getting divorced from their spouses, including

01:14:41

Jim's mom, obviously. And they ran off, got married, and thankfully, before Jim's mom died, on her deathbed, her ex -husband,

01:14:59

Jim's dad, had begged her for forgiveness, and she granted that, and he was restored to a

01:15:09

Christian church, and he is apparently a faithful man of God today, and so is his wife, and so on.

01:15:16

And Jim was being very adamant about teaching that, or bringing that up,

01:15:21

I should say, a very personal issue, because he was just basically addressing the danger of men being alone with women when they are involved in counseling or evangelism.

01:15:35

He obviously agreed with you that we're not supposed to be frightened of evangelizing people of the opposite sex, but he was just talking about the privacy of it, the danger of being alone.

01:15:46

And he was even giving pointers, not only should you have someone else in the room, perhaps even preferably a woman, but always give the woman a box of Kleenex so she isn't reaching over to you or anything like that.

01:16:03

If she starts to cry, she'll immediately have something in her own hand. But anyway, I just thought

01:16:08

I'd bring that up because of the real danger. And I know, personally, pastors who fell because of these private counseling issues.

01:16:17

Yeah, I think every reasonable safeguard should be taken.

01:16:25

You know, pastors, Acts 20, 28, Paul told the elders of Ephesus that they are to minister to the entire flock, not just the men of the

01:16:37

Church, not just the women of the Church, not just the children of the Church, but the whole Church. And so pastors are obligated to take whatever safeguards are necessary to protect not only their ministry, but to protect their flock as well.

01:16:54

Amen. And we have Erin in Indianapolis, Indiana, who says,

01:17:01

Praise God for your faithful view of women's roles and poor influences of many current women speakers.

01:17:08

Have you seen any shift in the tide of the reception to the Gospel message as you preach it on the street, either more receptive or more hostile to it as of late?

01:17:23

Yeah, great question. I don't think people have changed since the days of Noah.

01:17:33

And I'm sure Erin would agree, too. And I also think that what

01:17:40

Paul experienced in Athens is what

01:17:45

I and other street evangelists experience today, is that some will mock, some will want to hear more, and some will repent and believe.

01:18:00

And unlike in charismatic circles, it seems primarily where millions of people are declared saved, it's rare.

01:18:13

It's rare out on the street when we see someone actually come to repentance and faith in Christ.

01:18:19

And even then, we can't have 100 % certainty because we don't know their heart. Only God does.

01:18:26

That's why when I'm on the street, if someone seems to be repenting and believing,

01:18:34

I never declare them born again. I don't do what some well -known evangelists in stadiums do and put on the jumbotron,

01:18:47

Welcome to the Family of God, because you pray the prayer and ask Jesus into your heart. That's just a great way to create false converts.

01:18:59

But it's rare to see people come to genuine repentance and faith in Christ out on the street.

01:19:05

It always has been, because the way is narrow that leads to light, and few will find it, and it will continue to be.

01:19:13

As far as the reception of the Gospel, it really depends what part of the world

01:19:22

I'm in. And even here locally, Chris, it really depends what community

01:19:28

I'm in. For instance, Third Street Promenade here in Southern California, it's one of the most popular tourist attractions.

01:19:40

The Santa Monica Pier and Third Street Promenade and Santa Monica. And up on the promenade, it's very difficult to get people to lower their noses, to even make eye contact with you, let alone take a

01:19:56

Gospel track from you. But then you go 10 -15 minutes east to one of my favorite fishing holes, the

01:20:05

North Hollywood Metro Station, and I can be in genuine, meaningful

01:20:13

Gospel conversations with people all day long. And so it really depends where you're at.

01:20:22

As far as the reception in general, it seems that there is a growing indifference to the

01:20:33

Gospel. There's a growing indifference to preaching. There's more people today than I would say 10 -12 years ago when

01:20:44

I started preaching. There are more people today walking by as if they can't hear you or don't see you.

01:20:55

I think part of that is the advent of the smartphone. And I'm surprised there's not more pedestrian deaths all over the world because people got their faces buried in their phones all the time.

01:21:09

So I think that has something to do with it. But I think there's a power over mankind.

01:21:21

The spiritual darkness is growing. And I think one way that that's manifesting itself is indifference.

01:21:30

I wouldn't say that I'm experiencing more physical attacks than I have in years past.

01:21:38

Those are still only occasional. So I don't see an increase in that per se.

01:21:47

Now, again, I'm speaking from the context of a preacher from the

01:21:53

United States. It could be an entirely different ballgame in other parts of the world.

01:22:01

I think as far as the different places I've preached, I think London is a good example in the city.

01:22:11

I think there's a great deal of indifference and ambivalence towards the gospel. But as you move out of London proper and you get into the smaller communities, the smaller neighborhoods, neighborhoods that have a significant

01:22:27

Muslim population, Bobby McCurry and I and others who have been in some of those neighborhoods preaching, we have found very meaningful interaction with Muslims and non -Muslims.

01:22:41

It always seems to be, Chris, that in affluential areas, it's far more difficult to get people to stop and listen than in areas that are more depressed economically.

01:22:58

Yeah, I have found in my life, especially when I was a younger Christian and I was single and I was doing a lot more of passing out of tracts and things like that,

01:23:13

African Americans were always a lot more approachable with tracts.

01:23:21

And they would actually thank you for them and look like they were going to read them.

01:23:26

They'd put them in their purse or pocket or whatever, whereas white people just look like you're nuts and they just don't even want to be near you.

01:23:36

You know, Chris, I experienced the same thing out here at the North Hollywood Metro Station in particular, that people of color seem to be more ready to accept the gift of a

01:23:49

Bible, to accept the gift of a gospel tract, to be willing to stop and talk than white people.

01:23:57

Yeah, I found that to be true myself and throughout the United States. You stole a little bit of the thunder from our next listener, but perhaps you could expand on it anyway.

01:24:12

Jason in Lindley, Texas, who is another first -time questioner, says,

01:24:18

Tony has made a few trips to Europe and Great Britain, some of which included him being arrested for preaching the truth of Scripture.

01:24:25

Does Tony see similarities of what he has experienced in Europe and Great Britain coming to the

01:24:31

United States? Yeah, that's a great question. And yes, certainly culturally and in other ways, it always seems that the

01:24:42

United States is maybe a decade behind Western Europe as far as cultural changes, whether we consider them advances or steps back.

01:24:54

It seems like it goes from Great Britain to Canada to the United States.

01:25:00

It seems, though, now that the hatred for Christ, the hatred for the

01:25:09

Church, the hatred for the truth is rushing forward at a breakneck speed.

01:25:14

And things that are happening politically, socially in Great Britain seem to be getting here to the

01:25:24

United States even quicker. And I certainly am not a prophet. I don't play one on TV.

01:25:30

But I believe it won't be long before street preachers are going to go to jail for content and not simply silly charges of disturbing the peace or using amplification or something like that.

01:25:46

Now that we have these quote -unquote safe zones or safe spaces on college campus where you go to college to learn ideas and they have to be protected from ideas on college campuses now.

01:26:02

Things like that that are being acceptable, being accepted culturally, this idea of being tolerant of everything but the truth, which is now the norm in the

01:26:13

United States. Yeah, I fully expect that myself and others, even if we're not looking for it and good street preachers don't look to get arrested, they want to stay on the streets to preach.

01:26:27

But the time is coming when good street preachers are going to go to jail in the United States for the content of their message, not simply where or how loud they're preaching.

01:26:38

Now tell us something about that arrest. I believe it was at Wimbledon, wasn't it?

01:26:45

Yeah, in July of 2013 I was out with a few brothers from Sports Fan Outreach International.

01:26:55

We were out in Wimbledon for the tennis championships and we were staying in Wimbledon.

01:27:03

And so we did a lot of preaching on the streets of Wimbledon and I preached a message similar to messages

01:27:11

I preach all the time. And I mentioned homosexuality as a sin as a lesbian woman was walking by.

01:27:19

She cussed me out, took offense, called the police, and they arrested me for breach of peace and homophobic hate speech.

01:27:31

I spent seven hours in jail and was subsequently released without any charges pressed.

01:27:39

And then in January of 2014 in Scotland, I was arrested for the same thing under almost identical circumstances.

01:27:52

But that time I was held in custody for about 30 hours. Charges were filed against me.

01:27:59

And six months later, after they finally figured out how to work my video camera, they watched the video and dropped the charges and realized that the things for which

01:28:12

I was accused wasn't actually what I had said. So yeah, I was arrested a couple of times.

01:28:20

Did the police officers treat you with any additional respect knowing that you were also at one time a police officer?

01:28:30

I would say certainly I wasn't shown any favors of any kind. Certainly in London, in Wimbledon, I found the officers to be far more respectful and courteous than I found in Scotland.

01:28:48

When I was arrested in Wimbledon, the young arresting officer and I literally walked together to the police station.

01:28:57

No handcuffs, nothing. We just had a nice stroll and I asked him about his career and how long he'd been on.

01:29:04

But with that arrest though, during my interrogation, and in England you do not have the right to remain silent.

01:29:14

If you don't answer questions, they'll be held against you. And so the officer who interrogated me really didn't ask me anything about the circumstances surrounding my arrest.

01:29:33

The questioning focused almost entirely on my thoughts on homosexuality.

01:29:39

But I had the opportunity to share the gospel with him during the interrogation, so that was a good thing. In Scotland, however, the officers were not as friendly.

01:29:52

Handcuffs, paddy wagon, asked for toilet paper, got a piece, a square.

01:30:05

But you know what, Chris, all kidding aside, and for those who are listening, having been a deputy sheriff for 20 years, the last thing a law enforcement professional wants is to be on the opposite side of the bars.

01:30:22

And so when I started free preaching, I always had that in the back of my mind.

01:30:27

What would it be like to be arrested and in a cell when I spent the better part of my adult life arresting people and putting them in a cell?

01:30:37

And in both instances, in London and in Scotland, I could say with all honesty that I've never experienced so much peace in Christ than when

01:30:54

I was sitting in a cell. You know, reading God's word, singing hymns, praying for the officers, communicating

01:31:04

Christ to whoever I could, spending time alone in worship.

01:31:11

I certainly don't want to go to jail ever again, but I loved the peace and the intimacy with Christ I experienced during those times.

01:31:22

Praise God. Well, Jason, in Lindley, Texas, since you're a first -time questioner, you are also getting a free, beautiful edition of the

01:31:32

New American Standard Bible if you give us your full mailing address. And we'll have Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship that out to you as soon as possible, cvbbs .com,

01:31:44

cvbbs .com. That's cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs .com. They're going to send it to you within a few days,

01:31:51

God willing. And we thank you for joining us on today's program and keep spreading the word about Iron Sharpens Iron in Lindley, Texas.

01:31:59

We're going to our final break right now, and if you'd like to join those who have already asked questions by asking your own of Tony, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:32:11

I know that there are a couple who are still waiting, and I will get to you, God willing, before the end of the program.

01:32:17

So thank you for your patience. But if others would like to join in, in case we do have time to get all of you, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

01:32:27

And now would be the time to do it since we only have about 25 minutes left or so. Don't go away.

01:32:32

We are going to be right back after these messages with Tony Miano of Cross Encounters.

01:32:42

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01:36:30

Welcome back. This is Chris Arnsen. If you just tuned us in for the last 90 minutes, the next half hour to go, our guest today has been, and will continue to be,

01:36:39

Tony Miano. He has a ministry known as Cross Encounters, and that's also the name of a new book that he has written,

01:36:49

Cross Encounters. Tony, if you could, let our listeners know what brought you to the point where you said, hey,

01:36:58

I've got to compile these experiences of evangelism into a book.

01:37:05

Yeah, a couple of things happened. One, friends and people who have read my blogs over the years, a number of times have said, hey, you ought to collect these stories and put them in a book.

01:37:19

And so that's been on my mind for some time, but ministry and other writing projects kind of kept me from doing that.

01:37:28

But I think the biggest push for me to write this book was a book that I was introduced to called

01:37:37

A Pastor's Sketches by Ichabod Spencer. Oh yeah, those solid, grand Christian books.

01:37:43

Yep, amen. Who also published Cross Encounters.

01:37:49

Yes. But if people have not, most people probably haven't heard of Ichabod Spencer, and most people probably haven't read this book.

01:38:03

But I would encourage any Christian to pick up this book, A Pastor's Sketches, because basically

01:38:09

Ichabod Spencer was a well -known pastor in Brooklyn, New York, in the mid to late 19th century.

01:38:19

And what he would do is he would spend his day, if he wasn't in sermon prep, he would be going door to door throughout his community, or he'd be out on the streets, or he would be answering calls to come and minister to either his parishioners or people in the community.

01:38:40

And then he would spend two, three, four hours at the end of the day writing down, with as much detail as he could, the encounters he had with people throughout the day.

01:38:54

And so eventually this would become A Pastor's Sketches, and each chapter is a stand -alone story complete with dialogue, explanation, of encounters, conversations that he had with saved and unsaved people alike.

01:39:14

And it is just a wonderful treatise on one -to -one gospel communication.

01:39:22

Just a fantastic book. And so when I got a hold of that book and I started reading it, it brought to mind again the times when people have said, hey, why don't you put together some stories and put them in a book?

01:39:38

And so that's what I did. I went through my blog articles,

01:39:44

I went through audios, went through videos of one -to -one conversations, and put them together in this book called

01:39:52

Cross Encounters, a Decade of Gospel Conversations. Now, each chapter, again, is like with Spencer's book.

01:40:04

Each chapter is its own story, and along the way I've interspersed a number of how -to chapters on everything from interacting with law enforcement out on the streets to ministry outside of abortion clinics and what have you.

01:40:23

And the stories vary from conversations with Muslims, atheists, Roman Catholics, professing

01:40:30

Christians, you name it. College campuses, airplanes, outside of abortion clinics and malls.

01:40:39

And it was really a joy to put that book together because it just was such a wonderful reminder of some of the opportunities the

01:40:49

Lord has given me over the years to interact with people through the gospel. And by the way, our listener in Lyndale, Texas, said that his autocorrect actually misspelled the city in Texas where he lives.

01:41:06

That's Jason in Lyndale, Texas, not Lindley, Texas. But we thank you for your first -time question for our guest,

01:41:15

Tony Piano. And we do have Tyler in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, who is asking a question that may be hard for you to narrow down to one thing, but he says, what is your most memorable encounter when engaging in street evangelism?

01:41:34

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's tough. Taking 10, 12 years of full -time experience, it's really hard to narrow it down.

01:41:47

I think, wow. How would I do that? I could ask you if you ever felt like your life was in danger while doing it.

01:41:58

Oh, well, yeah. Well, yeah, a number of times, certainly. There was one situation when

01:42:03

I was up in Calgary. I was up there with my good friend, Kevin St.

01:42:09

John, and we were doing an outreach during the Calgary Stampede, which is the largest sporting event in Canada, annual sporting event in Canada.

01:42:21

And we were downtown. We were preaching in a corner where we usually preach.

01:42:27

And as I'm preaching, this young man, who I wasn't addressing, wasn't communicating with, just came completely unglued and was very threatening posturing.

01:42:40

I made a mistake in that I kept calling him back. I wouldn't just let him go, not because I wanted a fight or an argument, but because I wanted this kid to hear the gospel.

01:42:52

Well, at one point, I referred to him as a murderer at heart because of all of the hatred and what have you that he was showing towards me.

01:43:01

And he said, oh, I'm a murderer? I'll show you a murderer. And came with fists ablaze and knocked me off the box, punching me about the head.

01:43:11

And took a couple guys to pull him off me. And then he ran away.

01:43:21

And needless to say, this drew a crowd. And for the record,

01:43:26

I do not recommend this as a method for drawing crowds. Do not put yourself in a position where you get beaten about the head in order to draw a crowd.

01:43:38

I'm not recommending it. It's just what happens. But a crowd gathered, and I was able to preach the gospel using that something

01:43:49

I just took as an explanation of how

01:43:55

Christ died for sinners and how what I just experienced was nothing, nothing compared to what

01:44:02

Christ experienced on the cross. And that Christ went to the cross for people like Michael, who was the young man who beat on me.

01:44:14

We're just like Michael without Christ. And so it was a neat opportunity under some pretty tough conditions to communicate the gospel to a crowd there in Calgary.

01:44:34

In fact, I think it's chronicled in the book. There's a conversation I had with a young woman.

01:44:42

It was when I was with Living Waters, and one of the ladies at the ministry came out with me to Trinity College, only a mile or so away from Living Waters headquarters.

01:44:57

And we struck up a conversation with the young lady, and I got to the point of the conversation.

01:45:05

I had communicated the gospel with her, and I got to the point of the conversation where I asked her if there's any sin in her life that she loves so much that she's willing to die and go to hell so that she could enjoy that sin.

01:45:23

And she said, yes, adultery. And she didn't say it proudly at all.

01:45:30

In fact, she broke down. And that young lady would make a profession of faith in Christ there on a bench on that college campus.

01:45:42

So that was very moving. But yet, you know, it's really hard to pin down one.

01:45:54

Chris, some of the best conversations I've ever had didn't result in the person coming to repentance and faith in Christ.

01:46:04

Certainly, we wish every conversation went that way. But for me, being able to communicate

01:46:11

Christ to people, whether standing on a box or in one -to -one conversation, which is what this new book is entirely about.

01:46:18

It's not about open -air preaching. It's about having conversations with people. For me, it's an opportunity to worship

01:46:26

Christ. When I get up on a box to preach the gospel in the open air, I'm worshiping my

01:46:32

Savior by telling others about Him. Or when I'm sitting in a Starbucks or on a college campus or standing outside an abortion clinic and I have an opportunity to communicate the gospel to someone, it's an opportunity for me to worship

01:46:47

Christ. And so I cherish every conversation, good, bad, or ugly, because it's an opportunity to worship.

01:46:59

Praise God. Praise God for that. I want to read a couple of endorsements for your book.

01:47:08

I don't know how many of our listeners are familiar with Justin Peters, but he is a very powerful evangelist, preacher, and teacher who was born with cerebral palsy.

01:47:18

And he has a mission to expose especially the word of faith, name it and claim it, prosperity gospel as being a false gospel.

01:47:29

He recently was a part of John MacArthur's conference titled

01:47:35

Strange Fire. But Justin Peters, who's been on this program at least a couple of times, he says,

01:47:43

It is an incomprehensible tragedy and an act of stunning disobedience that the vast majority of professing believers are so apathetic in regards to evangelizing the lost.

01:47:55

By God's grace, however, he does have servants heralding his glorious gospel.

01:48:01

In detailing real -life evangelistic exchanges with everyday people, Cross Encounters by Tony Miano offers both a gentle yet unmistakable rebuke to the apathetic as well as great encouragement to God's people to verbally proclaim the saving gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost world.

01:48:21

Also, Pastor Josh Bice, who is the pastor of Praise Mill Baptist Church in Georgia, who is the director of the

01:48:30

G3 conference you've been hearing me talk about and hearing advertised on the program. Pastor Bice says,

01:48:37

In our confused evangelical church culture, the gospel remains veiled due to an improper commitment to friendship evangelism and an unhealthy focus on positivity that refuses to deal with the negative reality of sin.

01:48:52

Tony Miano does an excellent job of employing both heat and light in a balanced and fruitful way of fulfilling the

01:49:00

Great Commission while providing a valuable resource that's both readable and relevant. And last but not least,

01:49:07

Lance Quinn, senior pastor of Thousand Oaks Bible Church in Thousand Oaks, California.

01:49:14

Tony Miano's book, Cross Encounters, is a gripping account of actual conversations between a gospel -pleading evangelist and those who desperately need to hear the good news that Jesus saves.

01:49:25

I implore you to embark upon a careful reading of this book's many personal experiences of Tony's witnessing to others, and I earnestly pray that you may stake your own eternal destiny solely on the

01:49:38

Lord Jesus Christ personally encountering His glorious cross. Some really powerful endorsements for this book, and anybody who is interested in picking it up, go to solid -ground -books .com.

01:49:54

solid -ground -books .com. That's one of our sponsors of this program. Solid Ground Christian Books happens to be founded and operated by my very first pastor as a born -again believer,

01:50:07

Michael Gaydosh, who... Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. He's the one that actually immersed me in the waters of baptism back in about 1985 or something like that.

01:50:18

Oh, that's great. Mike and I have been good friends for many years.

01:50:23

In fact, he was just on the program again recently, last week, in fact. Also, you can get it through Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service that I keep mentioning, who ship out all of our winners'

01:50:36

Bibles and books. Their website is cvbbs .com. C -V for Cumberland Valley.

01:50:43

B -B -S for BibleBookService .com. There was a phrase that you mentioned earlier,

01:50:49

I believe, if I'm not mistaken, and also Lance Quinn mentioned it in his endorsement, or one of the endorsers mentioned friendship evangelism.

01:51:01

That actually was Josh Bice who brought up friendship evangelism in his commendation of your book.

01:51:08

That, perhaps, that understanding of evangelism, wouldn't you say, it may have come out of good motives that the intention was not to be just a talker, but a doer as well, but then it's morphed into a thing where it's just all about friendship and letting the love and light of Jesus Christ shine through your life and your activities without putting your neck on the line and actually proclaiming the gospel, which is the thing that really is going to turn your friends away on occasion, and maybe even your own family, and perhaps even get you fired from a job.

01:51:50

But that's where the problem comes, is when people solely use their life as an effort to bring the lost to salvation.

01:52:01

Wouldn't that be correct in saying it that way? Yeah, absolutely. There is not a

01:52:07

Christian alive today that is the power of God for salvation. God does not need our help.

01:52:13

We do not improve upon the gospel. How we live our lives and how good we are at making friends does not make the gospel more palatable, does not make the gospel more powerful.

01:52:25

Romans 1 16 says, For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to all who believe, to the

01:52:33

Jew first and also to the Greek. The gospel alone is the power of God for salvation, and that is a communicated message, communicated with words.

01:52:44

You living your life a certain way, you being able to befriend people, will not win a single soul to Christ, because your personality is not the power of God for salvation.

01:53:01

The gospel is. And sadly what has happened is that American evangelicalism has taught a generation or two of professing

01:53:12

Christians that no one is going to care what you believe until they believe that you care.

01:53:19

That is not in the Bible anywhere. Should we clothe the indigent?

01:53:24

Yes. Should we house the homeless? Yes. Should we feed the hungry? Yes. But if we clothe and house and feed people and meet their physical needs, and we do not communicate the gospel to them with words, we're only making them more comfortable on their way to hell.

01:53:44

And this idea of friendship evangelism, if people will take a moment and think who are the hardest people to reach with the gospel, they're going to say they're friends and they're family.

01:53:54

So what friendship evangelism does, as it's commonly practiced, is it sets Christians up not to communicate the gospel, because Christians will work hard to develop relationships with people, and if and when they get around to thinking about communicating the gospel with them, they won't because they don't want to do anything to damage the relationship that they've worked so hard to build.

01:54:18

So in the end, the friendship evangelism is all about them and not their friend. They care more about the friendship than the soul of their friend.

01:54:26

So friendship evangelism, the way it's most commonly practiced, is a tool of faith, because it keeps

01:54:33

Christians from communicating Christ. And when I'm down in the area of Skid Row, Chris, I don't see friendship evangelists down there.

01:54:42

When I'm at the North Hollywood Metro Station, I don't see friendship evangelists. In fact, friendship evangelism,

01:54:50

Chris, has become a way for Christians to justify and practice discrimination.

01:54:57

Because who do they make friends with? People that look like them. Yeah. People that they would be comfortable with having in their home.

01:55:06

People they'd be comfortable bringing to the front row of the church. And so friendship evangelism has become a way for Christians to discriminate against people who aren't like them.

01:55:20

Yeah, that's a very good point. And I was just reminded of when you were talking about friendship evangelism,

01:55:30

I was reminded of an experience in my early Christian life that God used to really chastise me and rebuke me.

01:55:39

I can remember Unbeliever, who was a friend of mine, when I told him that I was a born -again

01:55:47

Christian. He said, Well, you know, I have a lot of respect for you, man, because, you know,

01:55:54

I've met people who are born -again Christians who always got to talk about the

01:56:00

Bible and about Jesus and Jesus this and Jesus that. But, man, you know, I'm so glad that you're a

01:56:07

Christian, but I didn't even know about it until just now. And he was thinking he was complimenting me.

01:56:14

And the Lord really made me realize that I was guilty of being more concerned with the praise of men than with the wrath of God.

01:56:26

And that I was more concerned about pleasing men and keeping friends than pleasing

01:56:31

God. And that is a rut that many of us, unfortunately, fall into far more often than we care to admit.

01:56:38

Amen. Well, my hope, Chris, is that, you know, if folks will, you know, humbly submit to them that if they'll pick up this book,

01:56:47

Cross Encounters, and read about these actual encounters with lost people, my hope is that they will be encouraged to go out and do the same.

01:56:56

You know, you don't have to have a degree. You don't have to be a full -time evangelist. You don't have to have any kind of special training.

01:57:03

You simply need to love God and love people as we're commanded in the two greatest commandments. You know, and if you are a follower of Jesus Christ, you know the gospel.

01:57:13

You don't need more training. You simply need to get over your self -love that would keep you from loving people more than you love yourselves.

01:57:21

Go out there and communicate the gospel to them. And I also want to let our listeners know that Tony's own website for his ministry is

01:57:30

CrossEncountersMin .com CrossEncountersMin, at my end, which is an abbreviation for ministry, obviously, dot com.

01:57:41

I want to thank you so much, Tony Miano, for being a guest today. You always are an excellent guest, and I look forward to having you back soon and often.

01:57:49

Always a privilege, Chris, and I thank you so much, brother, for your support and encouragement.

01:57:54

Thank you. My pleasure, and I want to thank everybody who took the time for writing in questions, and I want all of you listening to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater

01:58:08

Savior than you are a sinner. We look forward to hearing from you and your questions tomorrow for our guest on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.