Academic Discontentment with Truth

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 973 460 to or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Cruise Announcement and Ministry Update

Well, good afternoon and welcome to the dividing line today we have hopefully an interesting program. I certainly think there are some folks are listening with a lot of interest. We're gonna be looking at 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 Verse 21 and what I call academic discontent with truth 2nd Corinthians 5 21, but before we look at this very very important subject, I would like to Mention yet once again the fact that right on our website you will find a Advertisement for our upcoming apologetics cruise and Right now it is my understanding that we have on the line waiting to talk to us someone who is going to get to enjoy the next number of days On the very same ship, I believe that we're going to be going on In December of this year and I hear in the background.

They're already making announcements about It's supposed to be doing there on the ship and Michael Fallon is on the line with me Mike. Are you actually on the Zondam right now?

Yes, I'm on the Zondam and they are giving directions right now for our life jacket drill. Oh great. Timing that we plan this out and I've also just gone deaf because it's horn.

So.

Doing well, but yes, absolutely. Dr. White you had me as a guest on your phone, which is allowing us to pass dollar discount America's on top which From first-hand testimony right now is an app the buffet restaurant a few minutes ago, and I can hardly move.

Oh Well, I'm on it then we're there and right now it's amazing from where I'm looking right now. I can look across and see The Disney Magic but then also right behind it there is the space and the launch pads for the space shuttle.

So you're at Cape Canaveral then? Excellent, and we're right next to NASA and you all are just about to take off and when will you be. When will you be back?

That the Alpha and Omega crews will be on in approximately ten and a half months.

So you're going to be you're going to be our our cruise guide in more than one way because you'll actually know exactly Where to go and what to do and so we'll have someone who is absolutely omniscient about everything we need to ask, right?

Okay sufficient knowledge over against infallible knowledge, how's that? That's correct.

But the conference rooms that we'll be using they're gonna be fantastic. Once again, we will have a system that we can plug your PowerPoint up into use of the Erasmus library. No. Do you think we'll be the only people on the boat that will know what his first name was?

I'm sure I'm sure but no, it's gonna be a fantastic time folks. And if you have not Cruised before this is a wonderful opportunity to take take part in the savings. Secondly, if you have not actually been with dr. White and some of the stations live and being able to ask.

Okay, Mike now have has has your wife put you on any limitations as to how many entrees you can do in the evening. Did you hear that. I just got a new Cybex incline bench in my gym at home.

Oh, that's what I forgot to talk about Jim. The gym has all Cybex equipment in it.

Oh, and it has free weights up to 70 pounds much much better than the plastic stuff that we ran into someplace else, huh?

No shot at the other boat. The other boat we were on was beautiful. This will be an Alpha and Omega throw around the way party.

We will have fun. Well, you throw around the weight or put on the weight one of the two. Amen, all right. Well you you and the wife have a wonderful time and I'm looking forward to next and you know, who knows maybe you'll be close enough next Saturday to let us know how it went.

Absolutely. We'll try to give you a buzzer. Okay. Thanks a lot, man. Have a good time. All right. God bless. Bye. Bye. That's Michael Fallon. He he does all the work and putting together these cruises for us and does so as a as a ministry loves the Lord and loves his truth and that's why he's doing what he's doing and of course right now he's going on a cruise and I was obviously would enjoy being with him, but they're off on their own and I suppose I Imagine they probably to do at least one of those for every one of the others.

He works so hard during the time we're on the boat that He needs a vacation after doing I would imagine so I've heard from a bunch of folks who are very interested in going folks. Whatever you do if you've had any interest in it all contact Mike.

Obviously, he's not going to be answering your emails for a week, even though you can get your email While you're on the boat as well but anyways Contact Mike do it now. I mean it just be silly to miss the hundred and fifty dollar Savings because you waited for five days or something like that.

It just doesn't this doesn't make any sense. So now's the time to get in touch with Mike. There's a link on our website Go there. I saw a thing about you know, I'm just picking on one particular group Catholic answers Cruise recently and I think we cost like a third.

Of course, they have a five point five million dollar budget, but our trip costs like one third of what theirs does so It's just a wonderful time of fellowship, so if you get a chance Now it's the time to now it's time to do that.

Thanks again to Michael Fallon for calling. You can hear the wind I don't know what it is. Why it's so windy on boats even when they're not moving. I mean they haven't left their berth yet and I remember the last cruise.

I was up on on deck before he left. It was just And it's gorgeous and stuff, but it's still interesting. Yeah, a omen is asking if UPS will pick up from the boat. Because he has orders to fill. Well, we're just gonna have to make sure we're all caught up before we leave and then just let folks know.

Hey for a week or so. Not gonna be filling orders. That's just all there is to it. So Anyways that that's going to be a lot of fun. All right, let's shift gears and move. Move away from that particular subject at the moment though.

The Problem of Academic Discontent with Truth

That is the purpose why we go on such such trips is to Study the Word of God and things like that. That's going to be on the subject of Islam will be our discussions, of course answering Islamic objections Salvation and things like that.

So it's all very much related to what we what we do regularly anyways but a Much more difficult subject to address now a subject that unfortunately is sowing a tremendous amount of discord in the body of Christ.

I I went to for my first master's degree. I went to Fuller Theological Seminary's extension here in Phoenix and Obviously Fuller is way off to my left Theologically even though back in the 1980s. It was not as far off to the left as it is now and The assigned readings in the various classes studies of Paul studies of various sundry theological issues Required the reading of a lot of material that from my perspective at the time was somewhat of a waste of time what I mean by that was it it came from a Perspective that lacked one particular element That rendered many of the conclusions of the writers that I was reading Irrelevant as far as truth was concerned and that is Fuller had already abandoned a belief in inerrancy a Belief that the scriptures as they were written are the say on eustace revelation of God and Therefore are consistent with themselves now if you Have never studied the writings of theologians who do not believe in inerrancy.

Let me tell you that inerrancy is sort of the bugaboo subject. If you're a conservative you affirm it and yet there are many many many in the academy That is in Christian academia Who while they may in a one way or another affirm belief in inerrancy?

They don't want to do so Overly openly because the Christian Academy the formal Academy of Christian scholarship Has embraced one particular perspective that unfortunately has made it ashamed of truth.

And what I mean by that is that? The Christian Academy wants to be accepted by their peers in secular scholarship and therefore there are certain beliefs that Are inconsistent with that acceptance and as a result?

There is there is Embarrassment on the part of many. Because they want to find that acceptance with those outside of Christ in essence Fuller had abandoned a belief in inerrancy and and I often had discussions about that with various seminary professors in the classes and Even once remember very clearly expressing during a New Testament class the fact that I felt like from Fuller's perspective.

I was the token fundamentalist the individual who The individual who is just you know out of the backwoods not really up to speed. And I I really felt talked down to looked on as being somewhat of an artifact of history certain of a dinosaur shall we say and I certainly learned during my seminary experience the tremendous impact of denying inerrancy upon one's theology and upon one's exegesis.

When you look at how you handle Biblical passages and biblical texts if you believe that.

The.

Text of Scripture is God breathe that it is God speaking through the words of men without.

Error.

Then.

The range of possibilities as to the meanings of passages is limited. By the concept of consistency you cannot interpret the scriptures so as to be inconsistent with themselves. If you do not believe that then you can interpret the scriptures in all sorts of other ways and in fact you must begin looking for external parameters whereby you can make heads or tails out of what scripture is actually saying and Of course it is always the desire of quote-unquote scholarship to come up with External parameters come up with new ways of looking at things because you see the fundamental idea in scholarship is for example to do a doctoral dissertation you must come up with a a a new way of adding to scholarly knowledge and That can be good or bad it can be good in the sense of there's all sorts of things that have not yet been That have not yet been Really unpacked and and examined to the depth they need to be examined to.

But that newness can also Involve coming up with. Well, you know we just can't view things the way that we've traditionally viewed them. We need to come up with something new and when you're talking about the deliverance of divine truth Newness is frequently a denial of that truth.

It's some way of coming up with some interesting way of inculcating heresy amongst the people in essence is what ends up being and when I was that fuller I I you know Bart was Was almost divine Schleiermacher Schweitzer I had to take of course the The obligatory classes on the search for the historical Jesus and and all the other things that go along with that Cranfield was was seen to be Almost too conservative.

In fact fuller was seen to be too conservative by by many if for example You know I had Methodist seminaries and things like that It was an interesting world to to do my studies. And there's no two ways about that and I I hasten to say that I certainly did Get to learn all sorts of neat things and it's turned out to be good for me.

I mean when I had to study Gerhard von Roth that certainly helped to prepare me for such groups as the Jesus seminar and Things things like that, but what prompts me to mention all of this is Is our study today, and that is academic discontent with truth and what I mean by that is there seems to be and I've mentioned this before a Discontentment amongst many people within what is broadly called Protestantism and in fact I will limit my My comments today to conservative Protestant groups there seems to be a discontent with truth.

There seems to be a an overwhelming desire to Come up with something new something better something fresh. And of course I am NOT one for sticky tradition I am NOT one to be bogged down in the traditions of men but there obviously is a line that must be marked walked between the traditions of men and The clear conclusions of the scriptures for example, I would not I Would not to say that a belief in one true God is a tradition of man it is the clear conclusion of the teaching of Scripture and while we may Restate that belief in a number of different ways when we may in fact have to Explain that belief in light of new challenges all the time the fact is that Those truths are true and we do not need to come up with new ways of saying them we do not need to come up with start questioning the foundations of for example biblical monotheism and so when we Talk about this discontent with truth in academia I want to use as illustration today An examination of 2nd Corinthians 521 as it is being treated by NT Wright's now.

NT Wright is an Anglican scholar. He of course is very popular he appeared as the one semi-conservative person in the Jesus seminar materials back on ABC a while back and Obviously he's become very central to the movement called new perspectivism and New perspectivism was certainly something I was exposed to not so much with those words back in seminary I had to read Sanders, and I had to read the James Dunn, and I'll be honest with you as as a conservative I I read those things went.

Oh, that's interesting, okay? I understand what they're saying, but these men do not believe in inerrancy they they start from a flawed foundation and It didn't seem overly relevant to me any more relevant than anything from Bultmann or or Bart or any of the others outside of okay?

This is this is what people to my left thinks very important. This is how they're thinking but as far as dealing with Conservative reformed individuals it struck me that this was stuff that was really outside of that area.

But over the past number of years It is very obvious that Wright especially has been making great inroads amongst individuals that I never expected that he would as far as his perspectives and beliefs are concerned and.

So this.

Concept of new perspectivism the new perspective on Paul. Has become something that has been very much discussed. And I'd like to just summarize some of the some of the aspects of it from Wright himself.

I have his book in my hand Entitled what st. Paul really said was Paul of Tarsus the real founder of Christianity. This is from from Erdman's. And what I'd like to do is to just read briefly his summary.

His own summary statements what he summarizes in regards to Paul's doctrine of justification. Just to give you an idea of where he's going. And then I want to look specifically at the exegesis of 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 and contrast My dinosaur way of doing things my exegesis of 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 With what N .T. Wright says about it and then take your phone calls as so on and so forth.

I think this is very important. Because let me just explain to you why this is so important. Even before I read his summaries there is a. And I knew I needed to stick a little note on it here. I was going to lose it.

There is a little section here in the book.

On.

Justification as the ecumenical doctrine. Justification as the ecumenical doctrine. This just gives you an idea of why you know. Why are you discussing about why are you talking about this the ecumenical task?

This is on pages 158 and 159 from Wright's book. This will give you an idea of why we're discussing this, okay? I'm reading from page 158 of N .T. Wright the ecumenical task. Paul's doctrine of justification by faith Impels the churches in their current fragmented state into the ecumenical task.

It cannot be right that the very doctrine which declares that all who believe in Jesus belong at the same table Galatians 2 Should be used as a way of saying that some who define the doctrine of justification differently belong to a different table.

The doctrine of justification in other words is not merely a doctrine which Catholic and Protestant might just be able to agree on as a result of hard ecumenical endeavor it is itself the ecumenical doctrine the doctrine that rebukes all our petty and often culture bound church groupings and Which declares that all who believe in Jesus belong together in the one family, of course, there will still be difficulties.

Of course, we must still have doctrinal debates. But until Christians grasp the message of Galatians 2 not to mention Romans 14 through 15 Ephesians 1 through 3 and sundry the passages They will still be at first base as far as true earthing of Paul's theology is concerned the doctrine of justification Is in fact the great ecumenical doctrine after all Galatians 2 offers the first great exposition of justification.

And Paul in that chapter the nub of the issue was the question who are Christians allowed to sit down and eat with? For Paul that was the question of whether Jewish Christians were allowed to eat with Gentile Christians.

Many Christians both in the Reformation and in the counter-reformation traditions have done themselves and the church a great disservice by treating the doctrine of justification as Central to their debates and by supposing that it is that it described the system by which people attain salvation.

They have turned the doctrine into its opposite. Justification declares that all who believe in Jesus belong at the same table no matter what their cultural or racial differences and let's face it a Good many denominational distinctions and indeed distinctions within a single denomination boiled down more to culture than to doctrine.

Because what matters is believing in Jesus. Detailed agreement on justification itself properly conceived isn't the thing which should determine Eucharistic fellowship. If Christians could only get this right they would find that not only would they be believing the gospel they would be practicing it and that is the base best basis for proclaiming it, so You may be going What what what what was just said there?

Well, you need to understand that for NT right the gospel and justification are two different things. And if you read a historic Protestant Understanding of justification or for that matter a historic Roman Catholic Idea of justification into what right is saying you won't understand a word that he's talking about.

So let me give you the the summary that he himself gives in regards to the meaning of justification. And then you'll have an idea of where he's coming from and then you can see why all this is very very important from pages 131 132 of Wright's work here.

Let me sum up Paul's doctrine of justification. We had better take this carefully step-by-step According to the three key categories. I mentioned earlier namely the covenant law court in eschatology number one covenant Justification is the covenant declaration which will be issued on the last day.

Please notice that's future in Which the true people of God will be vindicated and those who insist on worshiping false gods will be shown to be in the wrong. Let me just note Stopping the quotation at that point that in essence the emphasis one of the key emphases of New perspectivism is a removal of the emphasis of historic Protestant orthodoxy.

And that is justification is something that we look back upon Romans 5 1 for therefore having been justified by faith We have peace with God our peace with God is based upon the present existence of the declaration of Justification on the basis of faith that is the historic Protestant position new perspectivists deny this.

And that is part and parcel of the emphasis. Now one thing to recognize is that most of these writers will always say well You can still have what you believed before. But the emphasis will always be on this and one of the things that's very frustrating is I'm talking to many people in channel.

Who will say oh, but but you can still have that and I want to go okay? But if Romans is gone and Galatians is gone a second Corinthians is gone and Philippians is gone and all those passages actually have to do With eschatology exactly how would you establish that to someone who denies it?

How would you establish that in a debate with Roberts and Genes? How would you establish that in a debate with a Mormon or with Jehovah's Witness or anybody else? You're left with no passages upon which to do that.

And I just I believe last night was asking one particular individual who I know is listening right now. Okay, if you're going to affirm a present justification give me a text. I have not received an answer.

Because no answers are forthcoming. Even in reading right so I go back to page 131 number two law court. Justification functions like the verdict in the law court by quitting someone it confers that person the status righteous.

This is the forensic dimension of the future covenantal vindication. Now if that's somewhat confusing to you. That's. Because again, this is this involves a complete redefinition of what you're accustomed to hearing in regards to justification but one thing that this should not be understood as stating is that there has been an imputation of An alien righteousness the righteousness of Christ that is definitely not what he is referring to number three eschatology.

This declaration this verdict is ultimately to be made at the end of history. Through Jesus. However, God has done in the middle of history what he had been expected to do and indeed will still do at the end.

So that the declaration the verdict can be issued already in the present in Anticipation the events of the last days were Anticipated when Jesus died on the cross as the representative Messiah of Israel and rose again.

This was Paul's own theological starting point. The verdict of the last day is therefore now also Anticipated in the present whenever someone believes in the gospel message about Jesus. Therefore and this is the vital thrust of the argument of Galatians in particular.

But it plays a central role in Philippians and Romans as well all who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ are already demarcated as Members of the true family of Abraham with their sins being forgiven.

There is the allegedly present element. That is you're in the family of God. You're in the true family of Abraham. Your sins have been forgiven. That's what it means to be Justified and before we take our break Let me just give you a little further analysis of that from pages 132 133.

I must stress again. This is right that the dot this is W. R. I. G. H. T. It's not R. I. G. H. T. Quoting I must stress again that the doctrine of justification by faith is not what Paul means by the gospel.

It is implied by the gospel. When the gospel is proclaimed people come to faith and so are regarded by member by God as members of his people. That's justification for him by the way, I go back to the quotation, but the gospel is not an account of how people get saved.

It is as we saw in an earlier chapter the proclamation of the lordship of Jesus Christ.

If.

We can only get that clear in current debates. A lot of other false Antitheses not least in thinking about the mission of the church would quietly unravel before our eyes. Let us be quite clear. The gospel is the announcement of Jesus's lordship Which works with power to bring people into the family of Abraham now redefined around Jesus Christ and characterized solely by faith in him.

Justifications. The doctrine which insists that all those who have this faith Belong as full members of this family on this basis and no other end. Quote. So that's where that's where NT Wright is coming from.

That's his view of justification. We come back. Let me sort of start with what got me thinking about what he was saying again in the current context. We'll be back right after this this break.

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The God who justifies by dr. James White. Get your copy today at a omen org. More than any time in the past Roman Catholics and evangelicals are working together. They are standing shoulder-to-shoulder against social evils they are joining across denominational boundaries in renewal movements and Many evangelicals are finding the history tradition and grandeur of the Roman Catholic Church appealing.

This newfound rapport has caused many evangelical leaders and laypeople to question the age-old disagreements that have divided Protestants and Catholics. Aren't we all saying the same thing in a different language?

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They cannot be ignored. Order your copy of the Roman Catholic controversy by going to our website at a omen Org. This portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.

The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God. The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church. The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day.

The morning Bible study begins at 930 a .m. And the worship service is at 1045. Evening services are at 630 p .m. On Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix.

You can call for further information at 602 to 6 grace. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at PR Bc .org where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available 24 hours a day.

Justification, the Gospel, and the New Perspective on Paul

And welcome back. I guess Steve ran out of breath there for a second. He rarely does that we are talking a little bit about 2nd Corinthians 521 and what got me thinking about this was a An article. An interview with NT right in Reformation Revival Journal.

This is volume 11 number one winter 2002 and what I'm going to do is I'm going to read you some of Wright's comments and then I'm going to in essence read you my own exegesis of 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 verses 17 through 21 and then look at Wright's comments in the same passage as a means of contrast.

In methodologies and in conclusions as well. This is what caught my eye the person who was interviewing NT Wright says well, I think there is the practical question of people who are in subscription to confessional standards.

The new perspective comes in and makes you ask is that a denial of the imputation of Christ's righteousness? That's practical. I think maybe even behind this idea and arrogance is probably too strong a word to use here.

It's the question again that we have all of a sudden been able to decode the code 2 ,000 years later to which NT Wright responds. But you see the joke is this that is precise to the question Martin Luther faced in his time.

It was the big question throughout the 1517 to 1530 period. Where have you been for the last 1 ,500 years if that's what Paul meant? Why didn't the church notice it before now? Luther was saying God's Word God's Word here.

I stand and thousands of people were saying yes. Yes. Yes, so this is always the puzzle then it's back to this methodological issue. I do think that God has new light to break out of Holy Scripture. But it's not new light in the sense of throwing away all that's good in the past.

People are always frightened that a reformation or a proposal for a new way of doing things will go this way. My aim here is freshness something even better than what we've got now. Let me stop for just a moment.

This is page 129 by the way of that particular issue of Reformation Revival Revival Journal. I want you to hear what he's saying. My aim here is freshness something even better than what we've got. You need to understand NT Wright is talking about something better something Different than what we've got and what we've got folks is the historical doctrine of justification by grace through faith alone in Jesus Christ or what we've got is the imputation of Christ's righteousness the imputation of my Sins to Christ and his righteousness to me.

This is what is is we need something better than this and If you stop and think for a moment That raises the whole issue that I've been discussing with a number of folks. How can something be better than that?

I? Mean people are asking how can folk why is it so many folks even even conservative folks are buying into this stuff and.

One of the.

Responses I've had is a heart that Has truly Beaten with passion. For the truth that I stand before God clothed in the righteousness of another is not going to be looking for this stuff. So those that are grabbing on this must not have ever had that passion.

For how could that be exchanged for something else? I? Don't know but I continue on with Wright's comments. Listen to this very carefully. The imputation of Christ's righteousness is one of the big sticking points for sure.

Well, I'd hope so. I think I know exactly what the doctrine is about and I believe you don't lose anything by the route. I propose the force of what the force of What people have believed when they have used.

The idea of imputation is completely retained in what I have tried to do.

Why?

Because in Christ we have all the treasures not only of wisdom and knowledge Colossians 1 and also 1st Corinthians 1. But in whom we have the entire package meaning Sanctification and wisdom as well as righteousness.

So Paul's theology of being in Christ gives you all of that. But the fact that it gives you more than that does rock you back on your heels a bit and prompt you to ask listen carefully. Have we made too much of this one thing called righteousness?

The key text which is 2nd Corinthians 5 21 has been read for generations ever since Luther at least as an isolated detached statement of the wondrous exchange. When we do this we forget that the entire passage for the three chapters that led up to it and the chapter and a half That follow chapter 6 in the beginning of 7 are about apostleship.

These are all about the strange way in which the suffering of the Apostle somehow is Transmuted into the revelation of God's glory. In the middle of this the statement occurs that God Made him to be sin who knew no sin so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

After this I started to read The kaya soon a say you the righteousness of God is covenant faithfulness in Romans. I then suddenly thought wait a minute. What about 2nd Corinthians 5 21 and then I realized that the whole thing here in 2nd Corinthians 3 the new covenant God has made us ministers the new covenant.

We are embodying the covenant faithfulness of God. I can see how frustrating it is for a preacher who has preached his favorite sermon all these years on the imputation of Christ's Righteousness from 2nd Corinthians 5 21 to hear that this is not the right way to understand it.

But I actually think that there is an even better sermon waiting to be preached. You can always preach one on 1st Corinthians 130 as long as you do wisdom sanctification redemption all three.

Well, I.

Started listening. I started listening about that and going so is. He's saying that what's going on in 2nd Corinthians chapter 5 is.

That.

The Apostles Demonstrate the covenant faithfulness of God is that what's in Corinthians 5 21 is about because if it is then Protestants have been Completely off track for a long time and see right doesn't right doesn't present his position In such a way that you see how radical it truly is this isn't fresh.

I mean this is the this is like saying Indulgences are a fresh way of looking at the cross to a Protestant. I mean we're talking about a radical difference here, but he doesn't present it in that way.

He says oh you can still have all of that. If you if you want to have all that you can have all of that. But there's but there's this new perspective see and you need to understand righteousness is really God's covenant faithfulness.

It's not this idea of the the the Great exchange that Luther was talking about. Luther was wrong. Okay, and you also need to understand it from Wright's perspective. He thinks he's the conservative here he's actually saying that done and Sanders and the others who really are the the ones that stand all others who Started the new perspective pers new perspective movement.