May 12, 2017 Show with Catherine L. Morgan on “Thirty Thousand Days: The Journey Home to God”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host, Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City,.

Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnsen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Friday.

On this Friday, the 12th of May 2017, the Friday before Mother's Day,

and let me take this opportunity to wish all you moms and expecting moms out

there a very happy Mother's Day, and may the Lord bless you richly and surround you with people

who you love and also who, in return, demonstrate how much they love you and value

your role in their lives.

And I want to give a particular happy Mother's Day shout out to the woman who

led me to Christ back in the 1980s, Susan from Newville,

Pennsylvania.

I want to give her a happy Mother's Day wish, and also I'd like to give a happy Mother's Day wish to her

daughter, Katie, and who is in Orlando, Florida, and I hope

the both of you are listening or at least will listen later on the archive recording, and you both have

been a very special part in my life, and I thank God for you.

Well, today we are going to be interviewing for the very first time on Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio Catherine L. Morgan.

She is a Christ follower, the wife of Pastor Michael Morgan at Calvary

Wellspring of Aurora, Colorado.

She's a mother of three, an author, a conference speaker, and blogger at CatherinesLetters

.com, and today we are discussing one of her books, 30 ,000 Days,

The Journey Home to God, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron for the very first time,

Catherine L. Morgan.

Thank you, Chris.

It's an honor to be here.

And before I go into the subject of your book, I'd

like you to give a little explanation of Calvary Wellspring of Aurora, Colorado,

where you are a member and where your husband is on the pastoral team there,

and I'm wondering with the name Calvary Wellspring, do people ever wander in by mistake thinking that they're entering

into a day spa or anything like that?

We get a lot of people who think they're coming into Calvary Chapel, which we are not.

Okay.

But I've never heard the day spa thing.

Well, tell us something about Calvary Wellspring of Aurora.

Yeah, my husband and I actually were on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ for a

number of years, and we left staff with crew to plant a church,

which is sort of a long story, but we ended up coming back to the Denver

area where we had served previously in the inner city with Campus Crusade.

We did inner city ministry, and then we moved away and did prison ministry, and then we returned back to start this church.

So it was just initially the two of us, and we quickly recruited two other couples

that we were friends with, and it was the six of us adults and our three little children who were all toddlers.

And we started in our living room about 12 years ago, and the Lord has been really

gracious to sustain us through a lot of difficult years and slow

growth, and he's just been awesome.

And today we are still small compared to a lot of churches, but really thriving

and just a really joyful congregation.

We just joined a network.

We originally just called Wellspring Community Church, but we joined the Calvary Family of Churches this year

and linked arms with some like -minded churches in the area.

So now we're part of a bigger network, which has been really encouraging.

Can you tell us something about that.

Calvary network of churches, because I don't believe I'm familiar with it.

Yeah, so they.

Partner with the Southern Baptist Convention and with Acts 29,

so it's sort of a Reformed Baptist circle of churches.

The initial church in that network, I believe the story is, was a

replant.

It was a church that asked a new pastor to come in and kind of give them a kickstart because they were dwindling,

and that went smashingly.

And Pastor Mark Hallock really just did a wonderful thing, and pretty soon

other churches started asking for help with replanting.

So initially, I think all of the churches that joined up were replants of older, kind of dying

congregations.

We were the first church that was not a replant, we just were, they call us an adoption.

They adopted us in because we had so much in common with them.

So it's been a real privilege and an honor to partner, and it sure makes you feel less alone in the

world when you're doing.

This thing together with other churches.

Amen.

Well, I'm even happier now that I'm doing the interview because I happen to be a Reformed Baptist.

I had a feeling there must be some kind of a connection with the Reformed faith due to Christian Focus

Publications' connection to.

Your book.

Yeah.

And, go ahead, I'm sorry.

No, no, I was just gonna say it's such a blessing to me that that company is so committed to

strong theology, and you just don't really have to wonder too much what you're getting when you pick up one of their books.

Yeah, amen, I agree with.

You, and we interview many of their authors on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and

in fact we will be more than happy to interview any author that has an interest

in coming on the program because I am so confident in the missional

statement or theological commitment that a Christian Focus Publication

has, so I never have to be biting my nails or anything like that.

But, well, before we even enter into the discussion of

30 ,000 Days, I'd like to get a little bit more of

an explanation of your own personal background, the religion of your youth, if any, that

you were raised in, and how, in the Lord's sovereign grace and providence, He drew you to

Himself and saved you.

Yeah, I love.

That question.

I love to hear people's stories.

So exciting to hear how God works in so many different ways.

My story is not especially, well, I tend to say it's

not exciting, but it is exciting.

It's exciting that God is faithful and that God drew me to Himself, but my story is not

particularly momentous in the sense of, like, a

grand conversion story.

I always kind of start my testimony with my dad's testimony.

To me, it kind of makes sense of my upbringing.

I was raised in a home with my parents.

My mom was a believer and my dad was not when I was born, and that was a huge point of

contention, and their marriage had kind of almost fallen apart.

But mom was taking me to church from infancy on, which made my dad roll his eyes a

lot.

My earliest, one of my earliest memories, honestly, in life is stealing the crackers from the Sunday

school teacher.

I ate them under a table.

I was going to eat them all.

So I've been in church as long as I can remember, and honestly, I know it

sounds far -fetched to some people when I say this, but I just loved Jesus from as early as I can

remember.

My memories of Sunday school were of grace and of love, and even though my theology was

pretty ill -formed at that point, I knew that just Jesus loved

me in spite of my stealing tendencies.

He forgave me, and why would you not love him?

So he really drew me in from kind of toddlerhood.

My mom swears I was like two -and -a -half when I prayed to receive Christ, and my memories of that are pretty

fuzzy.

I remember praying with my mom on my bed, but like I said, as long as I can remember, I just loved Jesus.

And then within a couple of years, you know, I was sharing Christ with my dad all the time,

and my poor dad, I mean, he was agnostic, and here's this little upstart kid

who's telling him that Jesus loves him, and why doesn't he want to go to church, and what is Easter all about that?

And so he became a Christian, too, by the time I was about four, and from that point on, my

parents were fully in, fully committed.

They were very excited about things like apologetics, and we had a lot of vigorous conversations

around the kitchen table every night at supper about God and theology, and

so I was really, I just consider myself really, really blessed to have grown up in that, and when I was little,

I wanted to be a missionary more than anything, and God, He just, He's been

faithful to me.

There's definitely been, I'm still definitely a sinner, and there's definitely been points in my journey where I have

not represented Him well, or I have wandered, or I have, what tends to happen to me more in

my adulthood is struggling with sadness, which is really probably traced back to a lack

of faith, but all in all, God has been so, so

faithful to me,.

And has really, it's just been a joy.

Well, praise God.

You know, you said that that was not going to be a spectacular or remarkable

testimony, but I'll tell you what, when I hear about a person being

preserved from overt, scandalous rebellion since the time that they can even

remember having a brain, that to me is a miracle.

I mean, that is a glowingly remarkable and

wonderful and glorious testimony, and I can, I know I've said this on my program before, but I still remember

when I was a fairly new Christian myself, I had unfortunately

been quite a rebellious person before I came to Christ.

I was seriously addicted to alcohol, and smoking pot was a

daily habit, and things like that, and worse, and I can remember

after coming to Christ, this woman who was raised in the church, the daughter of

a church pianist, she said to me, you know, I wish I had a testimony like yours,

because I think that if it was more remarkable and exciting and

sensational, perhaps I could lead more people to Christ, and I said to her, are you out of your mind?

I said, your testimony of having been spared all that, that's its own

miracle.

That is, in fact, that kind of thing, I think, is also,

gives great hope to parents, especially if they are raising

toddlers and so on, or they're just expecting children, that they don't have to

necessarily go through a season of having children that are

going through a serious and scandalous rebellion in the family, and of course that may happen too, but

it's not a given that that will happen.

Yeah, our testimonies are.

Supposed to be boring, especially our children's testimonies, I should say.

Yeah, that's absolutely.

The kind of testimony I pray my kids will have.

Yeah, well that would be something certainly to pray for.

And this book that you have written, oh well, before I even go into the book again,

tell me how you wound up meeting, by God's providence, Michael, and

the circumstances.

Involved in that.

Well, that was a great day.

I met my best friend and just the most godly, wise man I could even

imagine when I met him.

So yeah, as I said, I had desired to be a missionary and I wasn't sure

what form that would take, but when I was in college, kind of trying to figure out what direction

to go, I really began to be burdened for the inner city, and I thought, you know what, I don't have

to go to another country to be a missionary.

I can just head to the inner city and that is a really, really needy people group.

So I decided to join staff with Campus Crusade for Christ and moved to Denver, Colorado.

After spending a summer out here, I fell in love with it.

I'm from North Carolina.

This is a big transition to me to move out west to cowboy country.

And honestly, I didn't even know before I came out here for the summer, I didn't know that Denver had an inner city.

I thought Denver was just, I don't know, a mountain town.

Anyway, I came out here to do inner city ministry with Campus Crusade, and the first year that I was working here,

my husband was a student on a summer project that came out here with Campus Crusade.

So I was technically his boss, which I think started things out on a good note.

But he was a student, and he just, I had decided at that point, you know, if I

don't meet a man who points me to Jesus, who's running just as diligently toward Christ as I am, then

there's just no point in getting married.

And I had this list in my head of qualifications, like I'm not even going to consider dating somebody unless they have all these

things.

Wow, that's.

Refreshing to hear, and I think it's unfortunately rare even amongst Christian.

Young ladies in this day and age.

Oh, it is, and it's such a shame because, you know, in Corinthians, it talks about a single person living in an undivided

devotion to the Lord, and there's so much joy to be had as an undivided, devoted,

single person if you really are on fire for Jesus.

So I'm not going to forfeit that to get into a bad marriage.

But yeah, so Michael was amazing, and he was obviously a

leader, and he was committed to the same things I was, and he also wanted to do inner city ministry.

So we began dating and got married about a year and a half.

Later, so.

Oh, praise God.

And for anybody who wants to investigate more about Wellspring,

or should I say Calvary Wellspring in Aurora, Colorado, which is in the Denver, Colorado area, that's

WellspringDenver .org, WellspringDenver .org, and I have a very

fond memory of my one trip to Denver with my late wife.

We were visiting a lifelong friend of my wife's in

Colorado Springs, and we went out to Denver to an amusement park one day, and I understand, I don't

know if they still have it there, but at the time, I believe that Denver Amusement Park had the largest

completely wooden roller coaster on the planet Earth, which is one of the

reasons my wife refused to get on it, and being entirely made out of

wood, and I believe that is why,

I think I used the excuse that I didn't get on it because my wife wouldn't, but that was, I remember having

just a very wonderful time though in Denver that one time, and God willing, I'll be returning.

And where in North Carolina are you from?

I'm from Greensboro, North Carolina.

Okay, I spent a couple of months in Boone, North Carolina.

That's a beautiful place, I would love to live in Boone.

Yeah, Boone was a wonderful place, that's actually where I went to a Christian

alcohol and drug rehabilitation ministry, and Hebron

Colony Ministries, I take advantage of every opportunity I can to announce Hebron Colony Ministries in Boone,

North Carolina, because without them, I might not be sitting here speaking through a microphone right

now.

But now I will enter into the subject of our book,

and anybody who would like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is

chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and the book

we are discussing, as I said earlier, is 30 ,000 Days, The Journey Home to God,

and for those of you who are unfamiliar with the lifespan of the average

human being, that's why this title is being used

to describe our journey to God, that is the lifespan in days of the average human, am I

right?

Yes, that's right, that's right, give or take.

Right, and obviously it varies according to God's will on when He wants to call

individuals home.

What does that amount to in years, is that 70?

It's about 82.

82, okay.

Yeah, and actually, you know, the life expectancy numbers are always changing, and that's a little higher than it

used to be, but that's the average lifespan in a lot of places in the world.

So what was the catalyst behind you writing this book, 30 ,000 Days?

Yeah, good question.

So I think, you know, when it really started to gel, eternal perspective has always been

important to me, and something I've meditated on for years, but we,

my husband and I, after we planted our church, it was hard, man,

planting a church is not for the faint -hearted, and there was a season where we just

were feeling really depleted, exhausted and worn out, and we

went, we're blessed, God was just so, so gracious.

We got to go on a sabbatical, and we spent about five months out of the

city, which was really refreshing.

I think the city can be kind of, we went up to a cabin, spent the first half in the

cabin in the mountains here in Colorado, and then we went to Massachusetts because Michael was working on his doctorate

ministry at Gordon -Conwell, so we spent some time over there, and

during that time, God was so, He just was refreshing us and meeting with us in

really vivid ways, and this book really just started to come together.

Things that He had been teaching me and working on in me began to

really come to life, and I just, at that point, I was thinking, life

is too short to live under the pile the way I've been

living.

Life is too short to not experience the joy that God has given us.

I already had decided years before that life is too short not to be purposeful about how you spend your life,

and life is too short not to serve God, but now all of a sudden, He was kind of impressing on me, hey,

life is too short to linger in sorrow when

there's so much to be thankful for.

He just kind of turned my whole perspective around, and the book kind.

Of came together.

Let's see, we do have a listener already.

We have CJ in Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York, and

he says, I know this might be off topic, but I'm asking this question because of something your guest said earlier

in regard to her own relationship with her husband and how they met.

Do you believe that Christian parents should allow their children to date, or

do you believe in a strict courtship model of getting to know somebody of the opposite gender with the

exclusive intention of being married?

Matzah ball right there.

My oldest son is actually 16, so we're just kind of wading into these waters right now,

and you know, our philosophy thus far has been to try

to just let everybody take a deep breath and go really slow, and we haven't

put real strict parameters on what that has to look like.

You know, one of the things I talk about in this book is, it's my conviction that as parents,

there's a big difference between teaching your children to obey God and teaching your children

to enjoy God, and if you teach your kids, if our bullseye with our kids

is obedience, and we are telling them all the time, listen, this is what you do, this is what you don't do,

here's the rules, here's the parameters, this is how to please God.

Sometimes that works splendidly, and your kids grow up and they really want to please God, and obviously

obeying God keeps them out of a lot of trouble, but sometimes that dry duty, I think, can

backfire, and I've known a lot of people who were very strictly raised

to rebel a lot because they didn't love God for themselves, they didn't enjoy

Him for who He is.

So in the dating thing, as in all the things that we try to do with our kids,

we're trying to show our kids, hey, you can enjoy God.

In fact, God made relationships for your joy, and those should point you toward Him and

make you closer to Him, and anytime you think you have this little secret thing that you need to do

outside of His awareness, well, first of all, He already knows about it, but secondly,

in withdrawing from God to pursue something else that you think is better, you're just setting yourself up for heartbreak.

So I guess that's kind of loosey -goosey, but our strategy has been more to try to emphasize that

whatever you do, whether it's dating or school or anything in life,

it needs to come out of this overflow.

And I'm assuming, from what you said about your own life, you would never, well, I know

you'd never be happy with this, I don't know whether or not you would never permit it, but I'm assuming that you would not

want your children to even develop any kind of romantic relationship, even

in an initial stage, with somebody who is not a born -again believer.

Absolutely.

I remember as a teenager trying to just follow the rules, and

you wanted to get as close as you could to breaking the rule without actually breaking it, and

I remember having a conversation with a lady who discipled me in high school and saying, but why can't I date somebody who's not a Christian?

I'm not going to marry him, I just want to go on a date, why not?

And I just remember her wisdom in saying, it's not, you're not trying to get away with

something here, you're trying to guard your heart and you're trying to develop relationships that draw you closer to

Jesus, not push you away from him.

And you're going to be miserable, miserable, in an unequally yoked kind of.

Marriage, I believe.

Somebody's bound to get hurt, too, in a relationship like that.

Absolutely.

One or the other, yeah.

Yeah, I heard Kathy Keller recently, or read an article by her, where she was saying either you're

going to draw close to that spouse at the expense of your relationship with

God, or you're going to draw close to God at the expense of the relationship with your spouse.

So it's going to be one or the other.

Well, thank you, CJ and Lindenhurst, Long Island, and guess what?

You have won a free copy of 30 ,000 Days.

No, that is not about my recent visit to the Department of Motor Vehicles.

This is about the Journey Home to God by Catherine L. Morgan, our guest today.

And so make sure we have your full mailing address and that will be shipped out to you, compliments of our friends at Christian Focus

Publications, but also compliments of our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service,

cvbbs .com, cv for Cumberland Valley, bbs for BibleBookService .com,

who ship out all of our winners in the Iron Trip and Zion audience, their free Bible

book CDs, DVDs, and anything else they win by submitting questions to our guests.

So thank you, CJ, and keep spreading the word about Iron Trip and Zion Radio in Lindenhurst,

Long Island, and beyond.

I have a listener all the way in Slovenia who has a question for you, and

I'm going to read it, and then I'm going to actually email it to you.

Actually, I can't email it to you because I don't have your email address, but

I'll just read it to you slowly and then I'll repeat it when we come back from the break, because I want you to answer it when

we come back from the break, since we're entering right about that time when we are having

our first station break of the day.

So Joe in Slovenia says, As I read biographies and historical

accounts of saints of 150 years ago and beyond, it seems that a recurring

theme is that it was quite common for them to write about their regular thinking

about and savoring the reality of heaven, of finally going home.

I'm wondering what it is, or should I say, I'm wondering about what is the difference

about our lives today that we are rarely deep in contemplation about the joys of being rid

of this cursed world and being with Christ in glory forever?

Is this another one of our first world problems?

Do we have it so comparatively easy that we are lulled

into thinking that heaven isn't really going to be that spectacular and great in

comparison to our modern luxurious lives?

Thank you for sharing and sharpening our focus on eternity when we will truly have

life abundantly.

Wow, that's a really great question and we all have you answer that when we return from the break.

If anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

.com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

If you're asking about a personal and private matter that compels you to remain anonymous,

you may feel free to do so.

But otherwise, please at least give us your first name, city and state and country of residence.

We're going to be right back, God willing, right after these messages with Katherine L. Morgan.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my

advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively

use Battery Depot .com for all your battery needs.

At Battery Depot .com, they're changing the status quo.

They're flipping the script.

They're sticking it to the man.

In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top of the line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable and affordable.

Ordering from Battery Depot .com ensures you'll always get fresh out of the box batteries

you can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs,

laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card

readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, GPSs, MP3 players,

watches, or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries.

Go to Battery Depot .com.

Next day shipping available.

All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties.

Call 866 -403 -3768.

That's 866 -403 -3768.

Or go to BatteryDepot .com.

That's BatteryDepot .com.

Charles Hedens Pershing once said, give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at Solid -Ground -Books .com.

That's Solid -Ground -Books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books.

Is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Every day at thousands of community.

Centers, high schools, middle schools, juvenile institutions, coffee shops, and local hangouts,

Long Island Youth for Christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to

youths in need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future.

Volunteer, donate, pray, or all of the above.

For details, call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385

-8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit.

Liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

Hi, I'm Chris Arnsen, host of

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio,.

Here to tell you about an exciting offer from World Magazine, my trusted source for news from a Christian

perspective.

Try World at no charge for 90 days and get a free copy of R .C. Sproul's book,

Relationship Between Church and State.

I rely on World because I trust the reporting, I gain insight from the analysis, and World provides

clarity to the news stories that really matter.

I believe you'll also find World to be an invaluable resource to better understand critical topics with a depth that's

simply not found in other media outlets.

Armed with this coverage, World can help you to be a voice of wisdom in your family and your community.

This trial includes bi -weekly issues of World Magazine, on -scene reporting from World Radio,

and the fully shareable content of World Digital.

Simply visit wmg .org forward slash Iron Sharpens

to get your World trial and Dr. Sproul's book all free, no obligation with no credit

card required.

Visit World News Group at wmg .org forward

slash Iron Sharpens today.

Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

There are four ways you can help.

First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio?

Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise,

and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at

ironsharpensironradio .com and click support at the top of the page.

But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses.

You for many years to come.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into a visit to the.

Pastor's study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on

WLIE Radio, www .wlie540am

.com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study, because everyone.

Needs a pastor.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Arnzen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is Catherine L. Morgan.

She is a Christ follower, wife of Pastor Michael Morgan at Calvary Wellspring of Aurora,

Colorado, which is a suburb, or it's actually the urban area near Denver, Colorado,

and she's the mother of three, author, conference speaker, and blogger at www

.catherinsletters .com.

That's www .catherinsletters .com with a C.

You would spell that.

And today we are discussing 30 ,000 Days, the Journey Home to God, and before I go back to

our listener in Slovenia who had a question, I want to read a publisher's description of this book.

Christ came so that we could have life to the full, but what does this really

mean for everyday life?

It is so easy to become disheartened by the sadness or just bogged down by the

monotony of life.

We have a constant ache reminding us that we don't belong in this fallen world.

30 ,000 Days offers an opportunity to think about and savor the reality of heaven,

of finally going home.

This special book draws our mind irresistibly to Christ and invites you to revel

with a childlike excitement in the salvation he has secured for us.

And that is a description, as I said, of 30 ,000 Days, the Journey Home to God, a book

I am addressing today with my guest Catherine L. Morgan, the author of that book, and it just struck

me how remarkable it is that a young lady like you even wrote on this theme.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm assuming you're quite young.

Are you in your 20s or early.

30s?

I'm celebrating my 29th, my anniversary of my 29th birthday.

Wow.

I've been celebrating that for a while now, but I'm really, I'll be 43 this summer.

You're kidding me.

No.

Wow.

I would never.

Have guessed that from your voice or from your photograph on your blog there.

Well, thank you.

Wow.

And I'm going back now to Joe in Slovenia's

question, and let's see here.

I somehow lost it.

Well, Joe in Slovenia says, as I read biographies and historical accounts of

saints of 150 years ago and beyond, it seems that a recurring theme is that

it was quite common for them to write about their regular thinking about and savoring the reality of heaven,

of finally going home.

I'm wondering about what is the difference about our lives today that we are rarely deep in

contemplation about the joys of being rid of this cursed world and being with Christ in glory

forever?

Is this another one of our first world problems?

Do we have to, do we have it so comparatively easy that we are lulled into

thinking that heaven isn't really going to be that spectacular or great in comparison to our

modern luxurious lives?

Well, that was a great question, and I'm really grateful to Joe in Slovenia that he asked it in English and not in

Slovenian.

He really asked a great question there.

You know, I collect quotes about homesickness for heaven.

I have for a while, and I just, I find that so poignant that we are not home yet.

We're waiting for home, and I think he's totally on to something.

I think it is a first world problem.

I didn't know Slovenia had first world problems, so that's a good thing, I guess.

But when I find these quotes, he's right.

They're often from people from long, long ago, or the other category that I see a

lot of reflection from is missionaries.

I mean, I have quotes from people like David Brainerd or Nate Saint or people who have really counted the cost

and laid down their lives for Christ.

Those are the people who spend the most time, I think, meditating on heaven, because I

think it's because they've given up so much comfort here, and when you have, and

whether you're suffering, because I think people who suffer from illness probably spend a lot of time thinking about heaven.

People who have really sacrificed for Christ as well, like I said.

Because we had a break there, I had an opportunity to look up a quote.

I've been doing a lot of study of Ecclesiastes lately.

It kind of wove through my book, and then as a follow -up, I put together a Bible study on it with a friend from

church, and I read a commentary by Derek Kidner called The Message of

Ecclesiastes, and he just had this great summary, I thought.

He said, the book of Ecclesiastes has good news for us once we can stop

pretending that what is mortal is enough for us who have been given a

capacity for the eternal.

And I just think we often do think what is mortal is enough.

We try to find satisfaction here, and we're so desperately looking for satisfaction here

that it doesn't always cross our minds that we're dissatisfied.

We're just restless.

We keep looking from one place to the next.

When there's a deep well of satisfaction for us in Christ, that extends to eternity.

But I think the only way for us to really lift our eyes off of earth and lift our eyes up to.

Heaven is to realize how far earth is.

Yes, and for those of our listeners who are unfamiliar with those two Christians

from the past, one further back in the past and one from the 20th century,

David Brainerd was most well known for being an evangelist or a missionary to the Native Americans, and

Nate Saint was one of the missionaries who perished along with

Elizabeth Elliot's first husband, Jim Elliot, who

Nate Saint and Jim Elliot were both murdered by

Alka Indians in South America and or Ecuador.

Am I correct?

It was Ecuador, right?

And Elizabeth Elliot remarkably went back.

She returned to the very tribe that murdered her husband and Nate Saint

to evangelize that very tribe, and the Lord did bring about great fruit in saving souls.

In fact, saved the soul of the very man who killed Nate and Jim Elliot, right?

Nate Saint and Jim Elliot.

It's an amazing story.

Yeah, and well, thank you, Joe, in Slovenia, and thank you also for

providing an American address where your daughter lives in Georgia because we're shipping

out the book 30 ,000 Days, The Journey Home to God by Katherine Morgan

to you at your daughter's address, and you should call or write your daughter and tell her to read

it before you get your hands on it because she'll probably be blessed by it immensely as well.

And keep listening to Iron, Sharp, and Zion, and keep spreading the word about the program in Slovenia and beyond.

We have a fellow Christian woman author

who's asking a question.

Katherine?

Latane C. Scott from Albuquerque, New Mexico, who has been a guest on Iron, Sharp, and Zion

a number of times.

She is a former Mormon who came to Christ by his grace and mercy,

and she wrote a classic book on the cult of Mormonism called The Mormon Mirage,

and she is quite a brilliant woman, and she says or asks, is your

guest familiar with the theory that time is perceived as passing faster as we age

to such an extent that by the time we are 18, one half of our perceived life

has passed?

I don't even know if it's a theory that time is perceived as passing faster as we age because I think it's a fact, isn't it?

I mean, I know that's a fact with me.

It's perceived as passing faster as I grow older.

And then her actual question or another question that she adds to that is, for

those of us toward the end of our 70 years, what is your best advice for

making the most of that remaining time since it feels like just a sliver of what's

left?

Wow.

I think one of the key things, probably the key

thing in my mind is, and I say that because Jesus kind of

said it was the key thing, is that we were made to love God with all our heart and soul and mind

and strength.

So the best way we can savor the days we've been given

is to devote them to loving God with our heart and soul and mind and strength and to loving our neighbor as

ourselves.

And, you know, I think a lot about the poor and the

oppressed because of doing inner ministry.

And I think we can learn more about Jesus and who he was

in the face of a person who has nothing than we can learn

in a cathedral oftentimes.

And to spend your days loving Jesus and then loving people around you

as to love Jesus.

Like when I give a homeless person a cup of cold water, I can either do it just for that guy or

I can give that to Jesus.

And he's just, you know, the hands are going to receive it are here in this homeless person.

But I think if you really want to savor your days, looking

for opportunities to love on people, particularly the poor and the

downtrodden and those who have nothing, that's going to sweeten your relationship with Jesus like

very few things can, and therefore sweeten your days.

Well, thank you, Latayne.

And you are also getting a free copy of Catherine's book, 30 ,000 Days,

The Journey Home to God.

And make sure that I have an updated mailing address for you.

And then that will be shipped out to you.

Compliments of Christian -focused publications and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book

Service CV or Cumberland Valley BBS for BibleBookService .com.

CV, BBS .com.

And we thank Todd and Patty Jennings, owners of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service for

being faithful supporters of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

We have another question from Jerry in Charlestown, New Hampshire.

And I have to enlarge the tiny font on Jerry's email.

And he says, thank you for dealing with the important topic of the brevity of life and living in

light of eternity.

One scripture that has always stood out to me is the end of 1 Corinthians 15.

In that chapter, Paul is explaining the manifold glories of the resurrection.

And then in the very last verse, he gives this practical application of that doctrine.

Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work

of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

My question is, how does living in light of eternity motivate and spur one on to

fruitful labor for the Lord, to be abounding in the work of the Lord?

How can our hope of a future resurrection encourage us as we walk

in what is often mundane acts of obedience from day to day?

That's kind of related to what you just said.

You turned what might be thought of as a mundane act of obedience or even

kindness, giving a homeless person a glass of water, to actually serving Christ.

Mm -hmm.

Yeah, I think that's what it's all about.

So let me just rephrase Jerry's question and be sure I understood it correctly.

But he's saying, how does living in light of eternity help.

Us to serve Christ here and now?

Is that correct?

Yes, and live fruitful lives filled with good.

Works and so on.

Yeah, I think that's so key.

I think if life is really short, it

changes your perspective on everything to kind of step back and realize that.

If you realize that God created you with this certain bundle of personality and gifts and

passions, He created you very specifically in a particular unique

way to reflect part of Him that nobody else can.

And I kind of think that.

We make this mosaic, but none of us on our own can reflect more than just a teeny piece of who He is.

So He puts each of us with this unique little imprint of Him.

And then He sets us down here and He says, okay, I want you to be ambassadors for me here

on this earth.

I think it charges your whole life with purpose.

I know this is kind of a lame example, but I always think about this.

In Star Wars, in the trilogy, one of the first movies that came out,

there's this scene where Han Solo and Princess Leia get set down on this planet, and it's the one with all the Ewoks,

you know what I'm talking about?

It's been such a long time since I've seen that.

I know that my co -host, Reverend Buzz Taylor, who's like a groupie or whatever you call them when it comes to

Star Wars.

I just saw that the other day, as a matter of fact.

So what about the Ewoks now?

Here's Han Solo and Princess Leia, and they have this save the world mission to accomplish, and they're supposed to

go down this planet and do something, I don't know what, important.

But if they had forgotten what was the purpose for their being there, and they had

just decided, you know, these Ewoks are really cute, and we're just going to go live in a tree house and hang out with the Ewoks

forever, that would be a tragedy.

That would be the end of the movie, and the whole movie would end differently, and they wouldn't save the planet or whatever.

But I kind of feel like that is the state of any Christian who has forgotten why we're here,

that we've been sent to this place where we really are aliens and strangers.

This is not our home.

And yet so many people kind of forget that, and they think, well, I'm going to set up shop here.

This is going to be my home now.

And heaven's like a later thing that I'm putting off on the back burner, and I'm not going to think about that.

But if really your citizenship is in heaven, and that's more real and more significant than

this place where we are just for a moment, I think it changes how we live, because we're doing

everything for that ultimate mission or that ultimate purpose that we were created for.

Yeah, and like you were saying before, when you're giving a glass of water to a homeless

person, viewing that as giving that glass of water to Christ, even as he said when he

was giving the example of the sheep and the goats, that those

that were doing these acts of kindness to the least of their brethren,

they were doing it unconsciously unto Christ.

And that will, I'm sure you would agree, would give us more perseverance and patience to

continue in those good works, because those good works are very often not even appreciated at all.

I mean, giving the homeless person example, I can remember as a new Christian going out into the

subways of New York City with New Hyde Park Baptist Church, and we were giving out on Christmas Eve

blankets and food, sandwiches that were pre -wrapped and so on, and this homeless person was so

grateful to receive the sandwich, he opened up the wrapper and he said, I don't eat pork products, man, get me a slice

of pizza.

So even that homeless person was not grateful for that food that I was giving him.

But if we are viewing that as serving Christ, it really doesn't matter how

the people on this planet are reacting to it.

Absolutely, and that is so freeing.

I mean, just a shout out to any of your listeners who are in full -time ministry, that can be

exhausting, and I think that exhaustion is exacerbated when we are doing it for the benefit of

the recipient, as opposed to doing it for Jesus.

I think there's a fine line between thinking, okay, I'm going to save the world, I'm

going to change the world, or saying, no, I'm not going to save anybody, Jesus is doing

that, I'm just loving him.

But when you kind of, Bill Bright, as a former staff person with Campus Crusade for Christ, we heard this

quote a million times.

He said, success in witnessing is taking the initiative and the power of the Holy Spirit to

share Christ, and then leaving the results to God.

And I think success in ministry, success in life, all of it is taking the initiative and the power of the Holy Spirit

to obey, in whatever way that looks, and then leaving the results to God.

It's not my responsibility to make the homeless person go out and get a job.

It's my responsibility to love, to love extravagantly and to love joyfully.

I think that grace, when we give that grace, it's just a fresh retelling of the gospel

every time, because my goodness, I didn't deserve it.

Grace is unearned, and Jesus gave it to me not because I was good, but because he is good.

And so every time we give grace, we're just getting to retell.

That gospel story.

Oh, by the way, in case anybody's wondering, I did buy that homeless person a slice of pizza.

Good job.

But anyway, the Reverend Buzz Taylor, my co -host, has a question or comment, but we'll have to wait until we

return from the break, so don't forget it, Buzz.

And if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail

.com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

Tired of bop store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

And how about the preaching?

Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

Well, there's good news.

Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience,

featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you.

Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service

times, 631 -929 -3512, or check out their website at wrbc

.us.

That's wrbc .us.

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries.

The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASV is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable Bible

translation.

The NASV offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the NASV is known for.

The NASV is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible.

Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics

relevant to today's issues.

From compact to giant print Bibles, find an NASV that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible

.com.

Whichever edition you choose, trust, discover, and enjoy the NASV for yourself today.

Go to nasbible .com. That's nasbible .com.

Iron Sharpens Iron welcomes Solid Rock Remodeling to.

Our family of sponsors.

Serving South Central Pennsylvania, Solid Rock Remodeling is focused on discovering,

understanding, and exceeding your expectations.

They deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results.

Solid Rock Remodeling offers a full range of home renovations including kitchen and bath

remodeling, decks, porches, windows and doors, roof and siding, and

more.

For a clear detailed professional estimate, call this trustworthy team of problem solvers

who provide superior results that stand the test of time.

Call Solid Rock Remodeling at 717 -697 -1981.

717 -697 -1981 or visit

solidrockremodeling .com.

That's solidrockremodeling .com.

Solid Rock Remodeling, bringing new life to your home.

Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

There are four ways you can help.

First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio?

Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise

and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at

ironsharpensironradio .com and click support at the top of the page.

But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses.

You for many years to come.

Driven Financial is not your typical financial services provider.

As a membership organization, we help Christians be wise with money and live generously every day.

And for the fourth year in a row, we were named one of the world's most ethical companies by the Ethisphere

Institute, a leading international think tank dedicated to the creation, advancement, and sharing of best

practices in business ethics.

Contact me, Mike Gallagher, financial consultant

at 717 -254 -6433.

Again, 717 -254 -6433 to learn more about the thriving.

Difference.

Faith, finances, and generosity.

That's the thriving story.

Chef Exclusive Catering is in South Central Pennsylvania.

Chef Exclusive's goal is to provide a dining experience that is sure to please any palate.

Chef Damian White of Chef Exclusive is a graduate of the renowned Johnson and Wales University with a degree in

culinary arts and applied science.

Chef Exclusive Catering's event center is newly designed with elegance and style and is available for

small office gatherings, bridal showers, engagement parties, and rehearsal dinners.

Critics and guests alike acknowledge Chef Exclusive's commitment to exceeding even the highest

expectations.

I know of their quality firsthand since Chef Exclusive catered by most recent Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

Pastors Luncheon.

For details, call 717 -388 -3000.

That's 717 -388 -3000.

Or visit.

Chefexclusive .com.

That's chefexclusive .com.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia,.

For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts.

We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity, but since that wasn't the Apostle's priority, it must not be ours either.

We believe, by God's grace, that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man, and to be

vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us, and to build up the body of Christ in truth and

love.

If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts, or plan to visit our area, please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750.

That's 508 -528 -5750.

Or go to our website to email us, listen to past sermons, worship songs, or watch our TV program entitled

Resting in Grace.

You can find us at providencebaptistchurchma .org.

That's providencebaptistchurchma .org.

Or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune in to A Visit to the Pastor's Study every Saturday

from 12 noon to 1 pm Eastern Time on WLIE Radio,

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for a visit to the pastor's study,.

Because everyone needs a pastor.

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio is sponsored by Harvey Cedars,.

A year -round Bible conference and retreat center nestled on the Jersey Shore.

Harvey Cedars offers a wide range of accommodations to suit groups up to 400.

For generations, Christians have enjoyed gathering and growing at Harvey Cedars.

Each year, thousands of high school and college students come and learn more about God's Word.

An additional 9 ,000 come annually to Harvey Cedars as families, couples,

singles, men, women, pastors, seniors, and missionaries.

Ninety miles from New York City, 70 miles from Philly, and 95 miles from Wilmington,

and easily accessible, scores of notable Christian groups frequently plan conferences at

Harvey Cedars, like The Navigators, InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, Campus

Crusade, and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.

Find Harvey Cedars on Facebook or at hcbible .org,

hcbible .org.

Call 609 -494 -5689, 609 -494 -5689.

Harvey Cedars, where Christ finds people and changes lives.

And I hope that many of you join the Reverend Buzz Taylor and me at the Faithful Shepherd

Pastors Retreat at Harvey Cedars Bible Conference Center on Long Beach Island

in New Jersey, this coming Monday through Wednesday, May 15th through the 17th.

The Faithful Shepherd Retreat will feature such speakers as Carl Truman, Todd

Pruitt, John Nielsen, and Amy Bird.

And if you'd like more details about registering for the Faithful Shepherd Pastors Retreat in Harvey

Cedars, New Jersey, go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org,

click on events, and then click on the Faithful Shepherd.

You'll have all the details that you need.

Following that, God willing, I will be at the 2017 U .S. Ministers'

Conference in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, at Elizabethtown College,

hosted by Banner of Truth.

The theme of Banner of Truth's Ministers' Conference this year is The Living and Enduring Word,

and the speakers include such notable names as Joel Beeky, Jeff

Thomas, William Vanderwaard, Mark Johnston, Jonathan Master, Carlton

Winn, and Ian Hamilton.

And if you would like to attend this conference, go to banneroftruth .org,

banneroftruth .org, click on events, and then click on U .S. Ministers' Conference.

And that conference is Tuesday, May 30th through Thursday, June 1st, and I

hope to see as many of you there as possible as well.

And then following that, June 22nd and June 23rd, Sermon

Audio is conducting the Foundations Conference in New York City on 350

West 26th Street in Manhattan, in the Chelsea area of New York City.

The featured speakers at that event are, once again, Dr. Joel Beeky, Dr.

Stephen J. Lawson, Phil Johnson, who is the Executive Director of John MacArthur's ministry, grace to you,

Todd Friel, the host of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, and a number of other speakers.

And if you would like to join me at the Foundations Conference to register, go to

thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com,

and you'll have all the details that you need there as well.

August 3rd through the 5th, Fellowship Conference New England is being held in

Reverend Buzz Taylor's old stomping grounds in Portland, Maine, at the Deering Center

Community Church.

And speakers at Fellowship Conference New England include Don Curran of Don Curran

Ministries, who will be my guest in a number of weeks on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

He is also the East European Coordinator with HeartCry Missionary Society in

Radford, Virginia, which is the ministry founded by Paul Washer.

Also speaking at this event are my friend Pastor Mac Tomlinson of Providence Chapel in

Denton, Texas, Pastor Jesse Barrington of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas, and

Pastor Nate Pickowitz of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmantown, Ironworks,

New Hampshire.

For more details on this conference, go to fellowshipconferencenewengland .com,

fellowshipconferencenewengland .com.

Last but not least, I just heard recently from Pastor Josh Bice of

Praise Mill Baptist Church in the Atlanta, Georgia area that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio will

have an exhibitors booth for the G3 Conference 2018.

I look forward to seeing many of you that I met for the first time last

January at the G3 Conference, and I hope to meet many new faces that I've never had the

privilege of meeting before at the G3 Conference January 18th

through the 20th, 2018.

Speakers at the G3 Conference in 2018 include Paul Washer, Stephen

Lawson, Voti Baucom, H .B. Charles Jr., Tim Challies, Josh Bice,

my dear friend of many years, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries, Tom Askell,

who is the President of Founders Ministries, and Michael Kruger, who is

the President of Reform Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina,

and Paul Tripp, who is a well -known author, and also Todd

Friel, as who I mentioned earlier, the host of Wretched TV and Wretched Radio, Derek

Thomas, another prolific writer who I've had on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, and there will be other speakers

as well.

If you would like to register for the G3 Conference, go to g3conference .com,

g3conference .com, and I need to remind the Iron Sharpens

Iron audience that we are in urgent need of new donors and benefactors and

advertisers.

If you love this program, if it means anything to you, and you wish that it remains on the

air, well, please, if you can, go to ironsharpensironradio .com and click on

support, and that will give you an address where you can make a check or mail a check made out to Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio for any amount that you wish, and I always want to remind you

that I never want to siphon money out of the collection plate of your own local church.

Do not take out of the regular giving that you are accustomed to with your church,

and also if you're a struggling family having a hard time making ends meet and

putting food on the table, I obviously don't want you to take food off your own family's table.

If you are blessed above and beyond your ability to give as always to your church and to provide for your family,

please go to ironsharpensironradio .com, click on support, and mail us a check of any amount that you

feel comfortable mailing us, and I thank all of you from the bottom of my heart who have already

mailed us checks, and some of you have done so on a number of occasions, and some have

pledged to do so regularly, and I don't have the ability to convey to

you in the English language how grateful I am to you and for you.

Those of you who want to advertise your special event, your business, corporation, your church, your

parachurch ministry, or anything else that you'd like to promote to the listening audience of Iron

Sharpens Iron Radio, as long as this does not conflict with the theological

makeup of our program, I would love to hear from you at chrisarnson at gmail .com,

chrisarnson at gmail .com, and just puts advertising in the subject line.

And that is also our email address for anyone who has a question for Catherine

Morgan on her book 30 ,000 Days, The Journey Home to God.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com, and before we went to the

break, Reverend Buzz Taylor, my co -host, you had either a comment or a question.

Yes, and of.

Course the last thing you said before the break was, remember what you were going to say.

Now, okay, where am I now?

But really though, by the way, I also am looking forward to meeting as many of our listeners as

possible at Harvey Cedars, and you know, it's kind of interesting to watch people

when they see you for the first time after hearing you, when they see what you actually look like, you know, they're in shock, you know.

That's an understatement when they meet you, Buzz.

Horrified, disappointed.

Go ahead, you might as well say it right now, everybody else does.

I have a face for radio because I used to be in radio.

Anyway, Kate, about your book now, I do remember what I was going to say.

I wrote a composition during the break, but you know, as you're speaking, of course, I kind of listen

between the lines and I catch little nuances of things that almost got said and didn't quite make it to the surface,

you know, and you had mentioned about we've been given certain giftings and so forth, and you know, I think

that if we were to grasp what you're saying in this book, it would really help a lot because

I remember what it was like going into ministry.

I never really felt like I was ready to do it, you know, and I'm always thinking, well, you know, after I grow a little bit in this

area, in this area, then I'll be more ready, and then all of a sudden it's like, wait a minute,

now I'm 60.

You know, now I'm not going to say that, you know, God didn't use me.

I did pastor three churches, but, you know, but I finally came to a realization that what I

was was already used, and I really didn't change that much, but God used me in spite of who I

was.

It wasn't so much that I had to change my whole personality as what I had to let God use that personality that I

have.

And now here we are, you know, it makes me want to, when I get home today, of course, I'm going to, you know, grab my calculator and I got to

figure out which day I'm in.

Really, you know, I don't know if I'm going to get 30 ,000, but, you know, I'd like to know at least where I am because really,

since you did mention that you, you know, have passed that magical summit of the big

four zero, every year, and everybody attests to this, it's so

much faster than the year before.

And that 30 ,000, the second half of them, I'm sure is going to go much

faster.

Than the first half, you know?

Yeah, you know, I did something the other day that I was prepping for this Ecclesiastes Bible study, and I was

thinking about that very thing, and I drew a little graph.

So like, if you, if you graphed your life and your spiritual journey, and, you know, where

you're closer to God and where you're farther away from God, and then, you know, you stop the graph at the day

you were at now, or the year you're at now, and then you flip forward, or you look forward on that graph to where do you

want to be when you're in 30 ,000 days.

When your time is up, where do you want to be with God?

And is that trajectory of your life right now heading in the right direction to get you

where you want to be with the Lord when He takes you home?

And if it's not, if you're drifting, if your life is pulling you away from Jesus, where would you end up

at that end of lifetime?

And where do you kind of need to make a course correction?

I just thought that was an interesting kind of way to think about the rest of the days I have.

And, Catherine, you indicate that A. W.

Tozer is some kind of inspiration or hero to you.

A. W. Tozer, one of the great voices of the past, now in glory with Christ for eternity.

And although he was not in lockstep with we who profess to be Calvinists,

it seems that he is probably the most often quoted Arminian by

Calvinists that I'm aware of.

So how has A. W.

Tozer been a blessing to you?

Oh, you know, I just loved The Pursuit of God.

I think I read it when I was in college, and so many of the quotes from that book have stuck with

me.

One of the things, I actually don't know if he said this in that book or I read this somewhere else, but he said

that the secret of successful Christians has always been that they've had a sweet madness of Jesus about them.

And I just love that idea.

But I love thinking about him whipping out that classic,

An Overnight Trip on a Train.

I mean, I wrote about this in the preface of the book, but here he is riding the train, and he's under

no illusion that he's arrived at his destination.

He knows that he's in this short little journey, and he didn't waste that time.

He took that time, and he trained his thoughts and his heart on Jesus during that time, and he whipped out

a classic.

And I think that's kind of analogous to our lives.

It's like we're on a flight to Hawaii, and we haven't gotten to Hawaii yet.

We're just on the flight, and nobody thinks when they're on the airplane, like, this is it.

I'm hunkering down.

No, you're waiting for that destination, and I think that's kind of how I like to live, living for

that destination.

Yes, and worship is also an important aspect of your book.

I just had, two days ago, a fascinating interview with

Jonathan Master, who's one of the speakers at the Banner of Truth United States Ministers Conference

coming up.

He wrote a book, The God We Worship, and it was quite a fascinating discussion.

How does the idea of living with eternity in mind, how, in your

opinion, should.

That affect our worship?

Oh gosh, it affects it so much, because we know the Creator of the universe.

We know the One who is above, you know, Ecclesiastes talks about how we're under the sun.

We know the One who's above the sun.

We know the One who planned all of this and made us who we are and has this

perfect, you know, end of the story that He's bringing us

to.

We know Him, and so to not spend your life just adoring Him would be

such a loss, such a waste.

I think He, something I've said before is,

it's like a little kid who plays peek -a -boo, and there's this moment in

infant's development where they attain a sense of object permanence, and that person steps out of the room, and they think

the person's just gone.

That's why peek -a -boo startles them so much, but once they hit that milestone, they realize, oh, He's still there.

He just stepped out of the corner of the room, but He's coming back, and I think that's how, you know, Jesus is, He's there.

He's right behind the veil, and so just living with an eternal perspective means realizing

He's not gone.

He's right here with me right now, so I constantly have an opportunity to be in conversation with Him and

abiding in Him and drawing close to Him, and Tozer again said, I want

to want Thee.

I long to be filled with longing, and so even when we're falling short in that worship, to have that

desire to worship, then God, you know, praying out of that lack, like, Lord, I want to worship,

but I'm not feeling it.

He'll supply that.

Yeah, you talk about worshiping wholeheartedly, and I don't know what the worship services are

like at Calvary Wellspring, but very often I can recall inviting

my Charismatic or Pentecostal friends to worship services at the Reformed Baptist churches that I've been

a member of over the years, and they have walked out saying, wow, I didn't like that at all.

You guys were not excited about worship and so forth, and I had to

remind them that, well, somebody can have just as much passion and

love for the Lord who sings without leaping into the aisle

and doing a dance as someone who is dancing, but having said that, I am the first to admit

that we Calvinists can live up to the stereotype of being passionless, and we,

above all people who believe that every single thing that we are blessed with in this

life comes directly through a sovereign, decreed act of God that has been

ordained before the foundation of the world, and we would not have anything that is good and lovely

and precious without Him.

We should be more thankful and exuberant in our praise than anybody, but what do you have to say about this.

Wholehearted worship?

Oh, man, I agree.

I just, you know, I'm not Charismatic, but I fall toward

over -exuberance, I guess, because I just, man, I just love Him, and I think

if you really get a glimpse of Him, if you understand who He is, that's got to

just charge your life with meaning, and I think even just

in nature, now I'm blessed, I live in Colorado, so we have more 14 ,000 -foot mountains in

Colorado than I think any other state in the country, I think even more than Alaska, which is weird, but

you go up there to the mountains, and it takes your breath away to see the scope of

creation, and I think sometimes we forget that you can see

that scope of God's creation, even if you live in a big, bustling city, if you

stand on a street corner, because creation isn't just mountains and oceans, creation is every single

person who walks by you, and just to be blown away by the imagination

and the detail of this creator, like it really ought to take our breath away and

amaze us all the time, and I think if we're not living in wonder, we're not paying attention,

because there's so much to be astounded by

if you have eyes to see.

Amen, and we have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who says,

don't we have to be careful about not crossing the line when we

are worshiping in a way that we think is wholehearted and enthusiastic, but

unconsciously, perhaps, we delve into superficial entertainment and

fleshly excitement.

Yeah, you know, I think we do.

There's much more to worship than just singing or any other kind of thing

that typically comes to mind.

Worship with your whole heart is worship with your whole life.

It's surrender and it's obedience, but that also reminds me of that quote, and I don't

have the details of this, I'm not sure if this is authentic or not, but William Carey, when he gave

what they call his Deathless Sermon, and he stood up and said, expect great things for God, attempt great

things for God, that sermon, there was reportedly an old Cross City preacher who said,

sit down, young man, you are an enthusiast, and of course was trying to put

a damper on Carey's zeal, but I think that zeal, sometimes it makes us

uncomfortable, often is very childlike, that childlike tendency to be

just caught up in worship, I think is a very Christ -honoring kind of thing, even if it does make us a little

nervous sometimes.

And by the way, Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, you have also won a free copy of 30 ,000

Days, The Journey Home to God by our guest, Catherine L. Morgan.

Please make sure that we have your full mailing address before the program is over, so

we can get that address off to Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, cv for

Cumberland Valley, bbs for biblebookservice .com.

So look for a package in the mail from cvbbs .com, and we thank also, of course,

Christian -focused publications for providing these books today that we have been giving away.

One of the other chapters that you have in the book is walk purposefully.

Tell us about that.

I know that sometimes people, they get caught up in,

even when they pray, their prayers are too general and non -specific, and

I think that we have to have more specificity and purpose in the things that we do in this life

when it comes to following Christ and adoring Him.

But what do you mean.

Specifically by that?

You know, I think what comes to my mind when I think about this is

college students.

And they have this whole life set ahead of them, and they can choose how they're going to spend that

life.

And sometimes when you listen to a college student's thought process of what they're going to do with their life,

they kind of say, well, you know, I think I'm going to go into business.

And you say, well, what does that mean?

What kind of business?

I don't know, some kind of business.

Well, are you passionate about something?

Is there something that you're excited to create and produce and sell?

No, I just, you know, I think I have a good head for numbers.

And I think about those kind of conversations I've had with college students over the years, and I think, man, I wish I

could grab every college student or every, you know, young adult who's looking at a lifetime and trying to spend,

trying to decide how to spend it and just say, all right, let's think about who you are.

What did God put in you?

How are you uniquely wired?

And then think about this whole big world we're in and areas of need in the world where your

gifts and talents intersect with the great need of the world.

Now, is there a way that you could employ who you are in a vocation

that meets that need of someone somewhere in the world and then do that with your whole heart and with excellence

for Jesus?

I don't think you have to be a missionary to serve God's vocation.

I think, you know, accountants can serve God wholeheartedly, every bit as much as,

you know, a pastor in that field if they have really surrendered and given that to the Lord and

said, okay, God, here I am, now work through me and help me to love people here and help me to do what I do

to your glory.

But I think it's that daily asking, like, am I doing this for me or am I doing this for the glory of God?

And living soli deo gloria, for the glory of God every day, changes the way you spend

your day.

And we're going to be going to our final.

Break right now.

If you would like to ask Katherine Morgan a question about her book, 30 ,000

Days, The Journey Home to God, please send the email as soon as possible because we are running

out of time.

Our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E

-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And I understand that you might be asking about a private or personal matter that compels you to remain anonymous.

Well, you may feel free to do so if that is the case.

Otherwise, please at least give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence.

And don't go away.

We will be right back, God willing, right after.

These messages.

Linbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Linbrook, Long Island, is teaching God's timeless truths in

the 21st century.

Our church is far more than a Sunday.

Worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages, enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ in fellowship, play, and

together.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman, and I invite you to come and join us here at Linbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can

be.

Call Linbrook Baptist.

At 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599

-9402.

Or visit linbrookbaptist .org. That's linbrookbaptist .org.

Have you been blessed by Iron Sharpens Iron Radio?

We remain on the air because of our faithful sponsors and because of listeners like you.

There are four ways you can help.

First, do you know potential sponsors who may wish to advertise their goods or services on Iron Sharpens

Iron Radio?

Second, whenever possible, purchase the products or use the services that our sponsors advertise,

and then let them know that you heard about them on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Thirdly, you can also donate to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio by going to our website at

ironsharpensironradio .com and click support at the top of the page.

But most importantly, keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio in your prayers.

We hope that Iron Sharpens Iron Radio blesses you.

For many years to come.

Hi, I'm Pastor Bill Shishko, inviting you to tune into A Visit to.

The Pastor's Study every Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. Eastern Time on

WLIE Radio, www

.wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you, and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in

with your questions.

Our time will be lively, useful, and I assure you, never dull.

Join us this Saturday at 12 noon Eastern Time for A Visit to the Pastor's Study because everyone needs

a pastor.

One sure way all Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners.

Can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers.

I know you all use batteries every day, so I'm urging you all from now on to exclusively

use batterydepot .com for all your battery needs.

At batterydepot .com, they're changing the status quo.

They're flipping the script.

They're sticking it to the man.

In other words, they'd like to change the battery industry for good by providing an extensive inventory

of top -of -the -line batteries that are uniformly new, dependable, and affordable.

Ordering from batterydepot .com ensures you'll always get fresh, out -of -the -box batteries you

can count on to work properly at competitive prices.

Whether you need batteries for cordless phones, cell phones, radios, PCs,

laptops, tablets, baby monitors, hearing aids, smoke detectors, credit card

readers, digital cameras, electronic cigarettes, GPSs, MP3 players,

watches, or nearly anything else you own that needs batteries, go to batterydepot

.com.

Next day shipping available.

All products protected by 30 -day guarantees and six -month warranties.

Call 866 -403 -3768.

That's 866 -403 -3768.

Or go to batterydepot .com.

That's.

Batterydepot .com.

Charles Haddon's version once said, give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid Ground Christian Books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of Solid Ground Christian Books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future, and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001, Solid Ground has been committed to publish God -centered, Christ -exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com, and see what priceless literary gems from the past to

present you can unearth from Solid Ground.

Solid Ground Christian Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

And I am honored to have the ads for.

Solid Ground Christian Books airing on this program.

And although it's too late to purchase anything from Solid Ground Christian Books for

Mother's Day, at least for Mother's Day 2017, you can order now

for Father's Day, which is right around the corner.

I can't think of a better place to order a book or gift for Father's

Day than from Solid Ground Christian Books.

And I'm not just saying that because they're sponsors of mine.

I really mean that, because they are truly a treasure trove of excellent

Christian literature from the past and present.

And even for those wanting to spend a little bit more money, they have gorgeous

hardback and leather -bound editions of certain items that would make a wonderful gift.

But any book from Solid Ground Christian Books is assured to be a

special gift because they, just like I was saying earlier about Christian -focused publications, when you order from

Solid Ground Christian Books you can be assured you're not getting fluff, you're not getting a heresy, you're not going to get anything that

steers a reader in a wrong direction.

Nothing but the finest theologically sound authors from the past or present

are brought into print by Solid Ground Christian Books.

And their website again is Solid -Ground -Books .com.

Solid -Ground -Books .com.

And I thank Mike Gaydosh, the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, for being such a faithful supporter

of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

Without folks like him we would not be on the air.

And welcome back to our discussion of 30 ,000 Days, the Journey Home to God, with our guest

Catherine L. Morgan, who wrote the book of that title.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com.

And one of the chapters, Catherine, in your book is, care passionately, I should say.

Tell us about that.

Sometimes we might seek to honor God by obeying him and doing

wonderful deeds, kind deeds, gracious deeds to our fellow men and women and children,

but we might not really be doing that from a genuine heart

of compassion or passionate care.

If you could explain what you mean by that a little bit more deeply.

Sure.

You know, I think we've already touched on it earlier in the interview, but

when we see Jesus in raggedy clothes, whether we see a homeless person

or a starving person in another country or just a battered

wife or whatever that is, when we see Jesus through the eyes of that person, what we do or don't do with

that knowledge is indicative of our heart.

It's a picture of the state of our own

worship.

It's a portrait of how we view ourselves, too, because if we view ourselves as sinners

desperately in need of a savior who's been saved by grace alone, that's going to spill out

because we realize we are not worthy and the grace that we've received from God is something that he's given us

to pass on.

So I just talk a lot about caring for the poor and the least of these in that particular chapter.

How do you respond when you see or meet someone who is really

hurting, I think is a really important question to Jesus.

And I think it was you mentioned Matthew 25 where Jesus, or maybe it was your co -host, who said

that Jesus at some point in scripture says, hey, what you do when you do to other people,.

You've done them to me.

That was me, I'm taking credit.

It was a good word.

Jesus said, I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, and I was a stranger and you welcomed me.

I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.

And I think how we care for those around us is a really critical issue to

him, which we would like to squirm out of a lot of times, but it does,

it's just a fact, it's important to him.

Yeah, in fact, it reveals that the sheep that he is referring to, that Jesus is referring

to, were not acting in a robotic sense of

duty and obedience alone.

They were truly caring about these people because they were unconscious, as it were, that they were doing it

for Christ.

That's why he was telling, and they were saying, when did we do this?

So it was obvious that they were not, and of course I'm not trying to remove the importance of doing things out of

a sense of obedience and duty, but it was not done in a robotic way.

It was obviously done from genuine.

Care and compassion.

Yeah, that's very true.

And I think, too, another point to make about that is that when we care passionately for

whoever's around us, particularly for the poor, I think that's really key to living an abundant

life.

I mean, you know, the prosperity gospel folks like to throw around that word abundance and blessing as though it's

just a wealth or health thing that God pours on us, but I think abundant

living partly is just experiencing the love of Christ welling up in you

and through you, and sometimes there's a lot of brokenness associated with that, a lot of hurt, and a lot, like you

said, of people going, hey, I don't want this kind of sandwich, I want pizza.

But I think when we're willing to face that and let Jesus just

start to pour.

Through us, we meet him in a really incredible way.

And you have a section on give generously.

I know that you have been involved in parachurch organizations like Campus Crusade for Christ,

I believe that may have involved fundraising duties and things like that.

Tell us.

Something about giving generously.

Yeah, I always joke that everybody should spend a season raising support.

It's good for your soul.

And maybe you experience this with the radio program, too, support through that.

It's a tenuous thing when your living depends on the generosity of others.

But the funny thing about it is that I think what we tend to not realize is that even if

your paycheck comes from a corporation, it really ultimately comes from God.

God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, and God decides what pennies you're going to get because he's sovereign over

that.

So living on financial support, which we still do, my husband and I, at least partly still live on

wonderful, generous support from people across the country, it's taught me so

much about God.

Because if our supporters choose not to give, we don't get

paid.

And through that, we've learned God is the supplier of every good thing in our life.

That when you give a gift, you really need to let it go,

which I think we've touched on with the homeless people issue.

Sorry, I think it's beeping.

We don't give a gift because the person deserves it.

We give a gift because it's worship.

And so when you give a gift, you have to let go of it.

Michael and I, we have to decide how we spend our money

knowing it's God's money.

And so that involves a lot of tough decision making that maybe you don't have to make if you get a paycheck from a company.

But maybe we should be making those kind of decisions, asking those kind of questions.

This is God's money, how am I going to spend it?

You have another chapter,.

Hold Loosely.

And I don't know if I should be admitting this or not, you might be too young to

remember the rock band 38 Special, but probably their most famous song was

Hold On Loosely.

And that immediately popped into my head because I used to hear it so often on the radio back in the 80s when I was a

rebellious young man.

But Hold On Loosely, or Hold Loosely as you.

Phrase it.

Yeah, yeah.

This is one of the hardest ones for me.

This is personally the chapter that probably affected me the most writing it.

Because the idea is that we can hold on really tight to our dreams

at the expense of holding on to God, or we can let go of our dreams or whatever's important to us and

hold on to the giver.

And I talk about that, the story, primo story in my mind of

this is Abraham and Isaac.

And here Isaac was this prayed for child, had been prayed for for so

long and waited for, and he finally is there.

And then God says, Okay, Abraham, I want you to sacrifice your child, which is

shocking, deeply shocking.

And that story to read that as though you've never heard it before, and just watch it unfold.

It is still startling to me to read that story.

But Abraham, as opposed to holding on tight to Isaac,

he lets go of Isaac, and he clings to God.

And he trusts that even though God has taken away the most precious thing in his life, that

God is good, and that he's good even in the middle of that, what would have been such a loss and such a

heartbreak.

And if he hadn't, if he had, if he had even obeyed, but with a tight

fisted heart, I think he would have been really bitter toward God.

Even if God had given Isaac back, I think he could easily have come away from that thinking, I'm

never going to trust this God again.

What kind of God does that?

But obviously Abraham's heart is this heart of faith, even in the middle of this

crazy request that God gives him.

And he lets go of that gift.

So for me, letting go of things that I just deeply desire, and saying,

God, you may never give this to me, but you're still good.

And even though you're able, if you choose not to give it to me, you're still good.

I think.

That's a lesson that I just have to keep learning over and over again.

Yes, something we all need to learn over and over again.

In fact, something more profound than the Rock Band 38 special also came to mind.

I don't know if you're familiar with the quotes by the Christian Holocaust survivor,

Corey Ten Boom, whose family was imprisoned in the camps by

the Nazis because they were harboring Jews in their attic, hiding

them to keep them safe from the Nazis.

And unfortunately, the Nazis found out about that and arrested the whole family.

But Corey Ten Boom, who survived the Holocaust in Holland,

she said, hold everything in your hands lightly, otherwise it hurts when God

pries open your fingers.

And that is something that is very true, because if we

don't view ourselves as merely pilgrims passing through this foreign land,

awaiting our ultimate home in heaven, and we begin to hold on to these things of the earth too tightly,

God may very well teach us a lesson by taking those things away to

remind us of what.

Is truly important and what is eternally important.

So true, he does.

And it's so hard, isn't it, to...

I think for me the hardest thing is not...

I don't have a hard time believing that God is able.

His power is pretty evident to me, just looking around the world.

But it's hard sometimes.

I think Satan comes after me and says, yeah, but is he good?

Because what kind of a good God would do X, Y, Z?

And so reminding, preaching that truth to myself, he is good, and here's why I know.

And of course, the number one reason I know why God is good is because of what Jesus did for us on the cross.

And you can't spend too much time looking at Jesus and not be overwhelmed.

By the goodness of...

We have a listener in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, Ronald, who says,

would you recommend this book for bedside reading at the

sickbed of someone seriously ill, or perhaps someone who is on their deathbed awaiting eternity?

You know, I had a real privilege last month.

One of our supporters, one of our financial supporters called me up and said he had bought this book,

and he was reading it out loud to his wife, and she wasn't feeling well, but I prayed for her.

Well, she, the next day, I think, after I spoke to him, was diagnosed with cancer, and

it was in the last stages, and she only lived another three weeks.

Wow.

And went to be with Jesus, and it really overwhelmed me that God had

used this in some way in her life, and he just talked about reading this out loud to her, and I thought, you know, I

hope it did encourage her, because the last, particularly the last couple chapters, I talk a lot about heaven

and what we have to look forward to, and I think there's such a joy

to meditate on what awaits us.

It is unbelievable how good that's going to be, and

although, you know, we haven't been there, we haven't seen it, and we can't really speak to it from an

eyewitness perspective, it flows out of his character, and we know

him, so we know that he is love, so his

dwelling place was designed out of love, and there's no tiny little detail that he's forgotten.

It's a gift to us, and so he is grace, and so home is this

place of grace and abundance and feasting and celebration, and so

I think, I hope that meditating on that would be a great encouragement and a solace to

someone who's about to go there, because what a joy.

I mean, man, I don't take lightly the suffering of people who are struggling with

a mortal illness, but, you know, there's a part of me that's kind of

envious, because heaven is so, our home is so far beyond

comprehension better than this earth, that going home is only

a cause for celebration, really.

Amen.

Well, thank you, Ronald, for the question, and if you know of someone who is in the

condition that you are speaking of, you're going to be getting a copy of this book to read to them, and perhaps

give to them.

30 ,000 Days, The Journey Home to God by Catherine Morgan.

Please make sure we have your full mailing address, and we'll ship that out to you through our friends at

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com.

Compliments of our friends at Christian Focus Publications, who donated these books for

giveaways today, and you have another chapter, Love Deeply.

Tell us more about that.

That may sound like a no -brainer.

Of course, we're supposed to love more deeply, but what do you mean by that?

Yeah, well, you know, I.

Differentiated it from the Care Passionately chapter.

It's two kinds of love I was trying to hit on in this chapter.

One is one that we sometimes just forget about, or neglect, I guess

is a better word, and that is the love for the people who are closest to us, and I think when we

really live like we're not going to have people around much longer, it changes the quality of that

relationship.

Then the second group that I focus on in this chapter is Loving the Bride of Christ, the Church,

and that kind of love is sometimes just really difficult.

I don't know if you're listeners, if you hear this a lot, but my

husband and I meet a lot of millennials who talk about anger at the Church,

and they hear a lot of complaints, well, I'm hurt and I'm wounded because of the Church, and

I hear that as a kind of constant theme, and so people who have been hurt, like

Michael calls them sheep bites, been bit by other sheep, that there's this

tendency to say, well, you know what? God and I, we're good, so it doesn't matter if I'm really

involved in the Church or committed to the local Church.

I can go this alone, me and God.

I'll read my Bible on my own and pray on my own, but I don't need to be part of a Church, and I just feel like that is a grievous

error, because there is so much that we gain from being part of

the Body of Christ, and so much God can teach us there that He can't teach us any other way,

and honestly, when we get to Heaven, I think it's going to be kind of a big deal to Jesus how we treated His bride.

I mean, if you go to a wedding and you do something horrible to the bride, the groom is going to be pretty ticked off at

you.

And so I think when we try to withdraw from the Bride of Christ, that's an insult to Him.

He died for that bride.

So even though the Church is made up of a lot of sinners, we always say ministry would be really easy if there

weren't any people involved.

There's a lot of sinners in the Church.

There's people who are going to hurt you or let you down, but we don't get

involved because we expect perfection from them.

We get involved because.

It's loving to Christ.

Yeah, you also reminded me of Paul's warning to the Church in

Galatia, Galatians 5 .15, if you bite and devour each other, watch

out, or you will be destroyed by each other.

He's talking about Christians here.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's a tragic thing when people are hurt by the very people who should love best, and I

really think that is the number one thing that has put the witness of the Church

in a sorry state in the world.

In our city, we only have five percent of the city, at the

top end, five percent of the city who are believers in Christ, and

the other 95 percent have a lot of ugly things to say about Christ because of what they see in the Church,

which is tragic.

I think if we really, really love each other well, that witness is amazing,

and that really does point people to Jesus.

What do you mean in your chapter by, Stand Firm?

That one is about spiritual battle, and that is something that I think people in ministry,

particularly in really difficult places, probably bump into a lot.

And so, that's kind of a meditation on Ephesians 6, and the armor of God, and what does it

mean to put on the helmet of salvation, and the breastplate of righteousness, and what does that accomplish?

And I love that story.

There's this little teeny kind of parentheses in 2 Samuel chapter 5,

where David's army is getting ready to go into battle, and it says, David

inquired of the Lord, and God responds to him.

He says, Go around to the rear and come against them opposite the balsam trees, and when

you hear the sound of marching in the tops of the balsam trees, then rouse yourself, for then the Lord has gone out

before you to strike down the army of the Philistines.

And there's this picture of God going to battle for us, and I think, you know, in addition to

seeing eternally, like, on the timeline of a short life, there's also this eternal perspective

thing of, what is going on in the spiritual realm right here and now that we just don't see, that we're not aware of?

And I think there's a big battle taking place, that, of course, Christ has already won, but Satan

is still after us.

So being alert, and being suited up in your armor to deal with that, and then realizing that God has

already won, the victory is his, and the battle belongs to the Lord.

Yeah, a stand firm is something that is like the antithesis, in

many ways, of the modern evangelical church.

It seems like the watchword of modern evangelicalism is, bend as much as

possible, and not standing firm.

And that is quite a tragedy when there are many things that we

need to stand firm on, or things that are becoming regulated or

lowered to the level of either tertiary

importance or no importance at all, and sparing people's feelings

seems to be the height of what we are to be concerned with.

In our day and age.

Which is tragic, because Jesus is the truth, and Satan is the father of lies.

So we can't capitulate to lies.

We have to stand up for truth if we're going to stand up for Jesus.

And finally, you have a chapter, Choose Light, not that that's the last chapter in your book, but it's the last

chapter we have time to address.

What do you mean by choose light?

You know, I think we are kind of like those little creatures that live in caves that just

prefer darkness a lot of time.

And I'm thinking a lot about struggling with depression and sadness, that one of the best things

we can do is choose to meditate on that which is good and pure and beautiful and true.

As Paul says in Philippians 4, 8, that we have to set before our hearts

what is eternal and not what is temporary.

And we have to choose to dwell in light.

We have to choose to turn away from anything less than God, anything

that's dark, and meditate on him.

And I really think there's a choice involved with that, not to say that depression is solely reduced to

a sin issue, because I don't believe that, but I think that the

best remedy God has given us when we're really struggling with weariness or sadness

is to choose to be thankful.

Well, I'd like you to basically, in about two minutes time, summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our

listeners today in regard to this.

Book.

Life is short.

Eternity is really, really long.

And the light and momentary troubles that are afflicting us right now are nothing compared

with the beauty and the wonder and the joy that is in Christ.

And if we choose to give it all to him and to surrender everything and lay down our life for him,

he will imbue it with such purpose and joy that

it will completely change the way that we live and give us what I think Jesus meant

when he said he has come to give us life abundantly.

Well, I want to make sure that our listeners have all the websites and contact information

they need.

First of all, don't forget about Katherine's blog, Katherine's Letters,

and that's easy to remember, katherinesletters .com, katherinesletters .com, and of course there's no

apostrophe in that, it's just katherinesletters .com.

And the church website for Calvary Wellspring in Aurora,

Colorado, that website is wellspringdenver .org,

wellspringdenver .org.

The publisher that provided us with the free books today that we were giving away, 30 ,000

Days, The Journey Home to God, that publisher is Christian Focus Publications,

and especially if you live in the UK, if you want to order that book, go to christianfocus

.com, christianfocus .com.

But one of the major U .S. sources of Christian Focus Publications

books is one of our sponsors, and that is the sponsor I've been repeating throughout the broadcast, Cumberland

Valley Bible Book Service, cvbbs .com, cv for Cumberland Valley,

bbs .com.

Do you have any more contact information that you care to give?

People can find me on Facebook if they want, but it's under Kate Morgan.

My parents, I don't know why, they called me Kate and they spelled it with a K.

But yeah, they can find me there, or they could even shoot me an email.

My email is katherineslettersatgmail .com.

Katherineslettersatgmail .com, and that's with a C.

Yep, that's right.

Katherineslettersatgmail .com.

Thank you so much for being on the program, and I want everybody to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far

greater Savior than you are a sinner.