WWUTT 2305 Q&A Taking the Lord's Name in Vain, Jordan Peterson's Teaching, Calling Someone a Fool

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How can we challenge an unbeliever who takes the Lord's name in vain? What do we make of Jordan Peterson, who's teaching the

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Bible now? And is it okay to call a person a fool? The answer to these questions and others when we understand the text.

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This is When We Understand the Text, a daily Bible commentary that God's word may be a lamp unto our feet and a light unto our path.

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Be sure to tell your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is

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Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. That was from Proverbs 3 right there.

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Let me read from Proverbs 6, beginning of verse 16. There are six things the

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Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him. Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies and one who sows discord among brothers.

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That's the seventh thing. So that being the seventh that is an abomination to him.

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All of those things are awful and address matters of the heart, a heart that devises wicked plans.

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Maybe you don't even carry out those wicked plans, but you're scheming them. You desire to cause harm to somebody or to have your own way.

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The Lord knows the thoughts and intentions of man. May we be humble before him and desire to have the mind of Christ in all things.

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Amen. Welcome to the Friday edition of the broadcast when we take questions from the listeners and you can submit those questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com

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or you can go to www .utt .com, click on that voicemail tab on the top right corner of the page and record us a voicemail.

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Yeah. And we'll play your voicemail right here on the broadcast. I think it's like 90 seconds or something like that.

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Yeah, something. So you can either ask a question or leave an encouraging word. Yeah.

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We take those too. We do. Those are nice. This email comes from Jason.

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He says, greetings, Pastor Gabe and Becky, but if she's not there, let her sleep. She deserves it.

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Oh, you're so sweet. Thank you. It's great to have you on this time around.

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Yeah, we're early enough. You caught me before I hit my lull for the night.

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She asked me before we recorded, can I go rest first? And I said, no. You'll never get up.

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I'll never see you again. Not true. Not until tomorrow morning.

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Exactly. So anyway, Jason asked this question.

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I hope you and your family had a wonderful Thanksgiving and are looking forward to celebrating the birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

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Amen. Yes, in fact, we just did. We just finished our Advent devotional together before getting together and recording this.

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I have a work -related question concerning my boss with whom I have a good working relationship.

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We collaborate well, and I find him to be very intelligent, and he knows that I am a believer.

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However, he is an unbeliever and often takes our Lord's name in vain in casual conversation.

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This is deeply offensive to me, and each time I hear it, it makes me wince. I recognize this could be an opportunity to witness to him, but I also understand that I'm being paid to fulfill my job responsibilities, which, in my line of work, limits opportunities to share the gospel.

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I've told him a few times that using Jesus' name in vain is sinful, but I'm mindful that my goal isn't merely moralism.

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I don't want my efforts akin to simply trimming dead leaves off a cursed fig tree. Do you have any advice on how

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I can approach this situation with grace, wisdom, and effectiveness? In his grace,

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Jason." Well, here would be kind of like my immediate response, or whenever I've faced this before, when

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I know somebody who will say Jesus Christ, but they use it as a swear, and obviously not in worship or not in reverence in any way.

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So if they take his name in vain like that, I will ask, now, why did you say that?

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And that immediately catches them off guard. Yeah, I'd bet. Every single time

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I've asked that question, it catches them off guard, because now you're putting them in a position to have to think about their words, and why do

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I use words in that way, which they've probably not given any thought to that. And you could probably even strike the conversation up in the direction of, like, why would you say

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Jesus Christ and not Mahatma Gandhi? Oh, yeah, uh -huh.

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Or Buddha. Yeah. Or Ibn Battuta, or something, whatever name comes to mind that might have some sort of religious significance.

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Instead, you use Jesus Christ. Why do you do that? Yeah. That would simply be the first place

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I would start, not necessarily coming at it from, hey, listen, man, that offends me. You could.

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You could. Yeah, say that to your boss. That's offensive to me. I'm a Christian. Yeah. And as a boss, then he surely will want to create a work environment that's friendly for all of his employees.

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He doesn't want to come across as discriminating, because if he's using Jesus' name in vain, which is the

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God that Christians worship, then it's gonna seem like he's picking on Christians. And maybe as an employer, he doesn't want it to come across that way.

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So that might be enough to get him to stop. But is that really, are you just trying to get him to stop because it offends you?

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Or as you had asked, are you trying to approach this situation with wisdom and effectiveness?

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Right. So is it something that's gonna put him in the position to have to think about what it is that he's saying and why he's using that name, and then take the conversation from there?

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So talking about this is not just a name that has historical significance.

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Right. This is the name that is above every name. Right. So the first approach would put the focus back on him.

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Yes. Whereas the second approach puts it back on Jason. Right. Puts all the attention towards Jason, like Jason has a problem with this.

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It's how you feel about it. Right, right. So the other is, well, why do I do that?

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So it's back on the boss. And you don't have to make it, in asking that question, you don't have to make it about you.

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You don't have to bring it back to you. Right. It's like, that offends me, so I'd rather you not. But putting his mind in a place to have to think about why

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I use that name, what the significance of that name is, why is it that the Western culture seems to be more accepting of taking

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Jesus' name in vain, but we don't reference any of these other false gods? That's kind of interesting.

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Yeah. Might get his wheels turning. Right. And produce some other gospel conversations as well.

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Yeah. I work with a lot of children, and so anytime that they come close to it,

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I'm like, eh, let's not. That's all I have to do. So it's not really a, it doesn't really develop into a conversation.

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I think it's more of a, what they pick up at home or in the world. Friends or something, yeah.

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Watching TV. Watching TV, yeah. That's what I always go in the next. And when she says working with kids, that's not ours.

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Nope. Not our children. No. This next one is from Brian. Hi, Pastor Gabe and Becky.

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In light of Jordan Peterson releasing his new book titled, We Who Wrestle With God, and his new series on Daily Wire Plus on the gospels, how should

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Christians proceed with these unbelievers' thoughts on Christian teachings? In his book, he talks about the

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Abrahamic story and how the sacrifice of Isaac can be viewed as parents sacrificing their children's present desires and hedonic pleasures.

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Hedonic, I think that's how you pronounce that. In doing so, the child matures and becomes a responsible adult, like to Abraham getting

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Isaac back, Hebrews 11, 19. In some ways, that parenting principle makes sense.

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Is that an appropriate application to that text? It's funny that when I read, you were kind of in my peripheral vision, but when

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I said the Abrahamic story of how the sacrifice of Isaac can be viewed as parents sacrificing their children's present desires, when

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I read parents sacrificing their children, your head went right up. I was like, what? I was like, what? I was like, what?

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Yep. I could hear it in your brain, even though you didn't say it. It was loud and clear. That's right. That's where this podcast would benefit from being a video stream on YouTube.

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That would probably end up being a gif. Somebody would turn it into a meme,

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Becky's big eyes, but I said, sacrificing their children. What?

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What are you talking about there? So Brian goes on, as you mentioned before, there can be many applications, but only one interpretation to scripture.

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Also the gospel series consists of Peterson and a round table of men consisting of a

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Roman Catholic bishop, a Christian mystic, a Jew, a nun, N -O -N -E, so somebody who has no religious affiliation, and other scholars, which gives diversity in the discussion, but are there dangers in Christians listening to these kinds of talks?

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P .S. If you could ask Jordan Peterson a question, maybe challenge his beliefs or ideas about God, what would it be?

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Well, thank you, Brian, for your question. Let me come to that P .S. here in just a moment. So nobody should be getting their theology from Jordan Peterson.

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I don't even know who that is. Well, he's a Jungian psychologist and scholar.

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So Jungian being that Carl Jung is the one who has influenced his psychology.

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Like somebody might be Freudian, or they might be Jungian. So that's...

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I thought you were just talking about a Jungian. Yes. I'm a little confused.

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No, his psychology, kind of his branch of study, so to speak. I'm with you. He's from Canada.

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So you hear the Canadian in his voice a lot. But he's since come to the United States and he works with Daily Wire.

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Okay. So he's kind of joined forces with them, and he's their philosopher du jour, so to speak.

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So a lot of the philosophical teaching and things like that comes from Daily Wire will probably be spearheaded by Peterson.

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He's been on Joe Rogan. He's in numerous TV interviews and so on and so forth.

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I mean, this guy is all over the place. Really one of the most popular people in America right now, though he himself is not

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American. That's hilarious that I have no idea who he is yet. I mean, you know,

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I'm not exactly with it. We were still living in Kansas. That's why I have you. Yeah, that's right.

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You asked me this stuff. I don't know if you guys have seen the Wife Jack meme, and it will always be the picture of the wife asking a question or just saying something.

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She'll say something implying a question, but never asking the actual question. My wife is the

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Wife Jack. Yes. So that's... Yes. Every time I see one of those, I laugh because I'm like, that's

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Becky. Yep. Becky would do that. We should go get some hot chocolate and go look at Christmas lights.

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That would be a Wife Jack meme. Okay. Yeah. Anyway. Now I'm really lost.

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That went somewhere else entirely. But Jordan Peterson has dabbled in religious thought.

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That really was kind of the thing that made him popular in the beginning, too. He wasn't just sharing psychology or philosophy.

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He was even tying it into religious thoughts. I wish I could find an early video and mention something about it.

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I've mentioned him. I have referenced his expertise before in one of my blogs.

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But the purpose of that was responding to some of the wokeness stuff that's going on. And Peterson had great insight into that, even talking about how that stuff works behind the scenes with psychology and diversity, equity and inclusion and some of that.

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The wokeness practices that were being implemented, especially in schools and institutions. Like I said,

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I've referenced his expertise before. But he is not a theologian. Well, he's a theologian in the sense that everybody's a theologian.

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Everybody's a theologian. Yes. As soon as you open your mouth and you talk about God, you're being theological.

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Right. But he is not a Christian. And even to this day is not a Christian, though he might call himself one in a cultural sense.

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Okay. I'm a cultural Christian. I believe that Christian influence is good for a culture.

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Oh, okay. Might be something like that. Which is why he's dabbling into Bible teaching. Okay. He's got this book and this series on Daily Wire Plus, which

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I've not read the book and I've not watched any of the series. I have seen several talks that he's done sharing his thoughts about God.

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It's still quite off. So he's not somebody that you should be taking this theological instruction from.

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Now, with regard to the question about these roundtable discussions that he has with a

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Catholic bishop, a mystic, a Jew, somebody who's not religious affiliated in other scholars,

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I would be interested in that, but I have a completely different reason for watching it. Okay.

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To critique it? Yeah. I'm not going to learn about God. Yeah. I'm not going to learn about Jesus or his word by watching it, but it would be to hear where these guys are going with their thought and some of the stuff that's, of course, going to be driving public discourse because Jordan Peterson is such an influential person.

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Daily Wire is such an influential organization. Right. So the fact that they're putting these kinds of things on Daily Wire Plus, it's not going to be

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John MacArthur or R .C. Sproul caliber. Yeah. Go to Ligonier for that.

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Right. He has grabbed the ears of young men and has made them more interested in Christianity.

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Doesn't mean he's made converts out of them because he doesn't preach the gospel. Right. Hopefully he kind of helps point them in that direction, and then they hear the gospel eventually.

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Like challenging an atheist? Yeah. Because Peterson is definitely not an atheist.

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Okay. Fair enough. So challenging those ideas to open an atheist mind to how contradictory their worldview is, how empty their worldview is.

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Right. So Peterson might at least plant a seed in that way. God can certainly use that kind of discussion to open a door.

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Oh, for sure. But yeah, like I said, he doesn't believe the gospel. He's not sharing the gospel, so he's not making converts out of the stuff that he teaches.

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And I would go as far as saying that most of the stuff he's talking about is going to lead people astray rather than to Christ.

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More people are going to go astray than go the right way. Then Brian, in your PS question, if you could ask

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Jordan Peterson a question, maybe challenge his belief or ideas about God, what would it be? I would ask one of two questions.

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I would say, what is the gospel? Because again, just like going back to the question of why do you say that with using the

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Lord's name in vain? So putting it on him to explain to me what the gospel is, what do you think it is?

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So that can open the door to us discussing what the gospel is, and then I've got scripture that I can use to tell you what the gospel is.

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Starting with perhaps Romans 1 16, I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God for salvation to all who believe.

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So why are we even having this discussion? Because this is literally a matter of a person's eternal existence.

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Believing in Jesus Christ is the only way to have resurrection after death. That's what it means for the gospel to be salvation to all who believe.

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It's to have your sins forgiven so that you don't perish under the wrath of God, but instead will live with God forever in glory.

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And then there's many other places we can go. We can keep on in Romans, continue that Romans road approach,

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Isaiah 53, John 3, different areas that we could go to. Ephesians 2 is another one

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I like to use, Titus 3. So beginning with that question, explain to me the gospel.

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That might be the first question I start with, or a second option would be to say, explain to me the deity of Christ.

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So that puts him in the position of having to say whether he believes that Jesus is God or not.

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And if he does believe that he is God, okay, then we're talking about someone more than just a philosopher, more than just a historical figure.

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He's the most influential, most important man in history. Why? That would be one of two questions that I would ask him, either of those.

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Yeah, those are good questions. Just waiting to see if you had one. Nope. Because you're just learning about the guy for the first time.

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That's exactly why. I'm like, well, I really don't know. Sounds good to me. This is from Erin.

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Hi, Pastor Gabe. I'm very confused. Me too. That's, yeah. Sorry.

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That's a way to start a question sent to a Q &A program. Perfect. I'm very confused.

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Love it. I am taking courses at the Master's University. Well, no wonder you're confused. I'm just kidding.

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That's a joke. That is a joke. I was going to say, really? Yeah, no. Wait. Wasn't Master's?

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Yeah. Yeah. That's John MacArthur's. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I was right. Yay. I'm just joking.

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Just giving friends out there a hard time. And I have been in the New Testament survey courses for about 14 weeks.

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Because of this, I recently read Jesus say in Matthew 5 .22 that whoever is angry with his brother and says, you fool, shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

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That is clear as a bell to me. My confusion comes from 1 Corinthians 15, 35 to 36, where Paul is refuting the misconception that there is no resurrection.

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And he says, but someone will say, how are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?

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You fool, that which you sow does not come to life until it dies.

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How can Paul write this to the Corinthian believers, calling his brothers in Christ fools as inspired by the

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Holy Spirit? I know the Bible is inerrant and infallible. So I know the problem lies with my understanding.

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Please help. That's a great approach. Yes. I mean, that's a lesson that you've surely received at Master's.

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If you have a problem with the Bible, the problem is you, not the Bible. Yes. Well, let's go first to Matthew 5 and read in context that statement that Jesus makes there about calling someone a fool.

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This is with regards to someone's anger. So you might think that you are righteous because you've never killed anybody.

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But if you even have evil thoughts in your heart toward a person, it's as if you've murdered them in your heart.

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Right. So this is Matthew 5, starting in verse 21. You have heard that it was said to those of old, you shall not murder.

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And whoever murders will be liable to judgment. But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.

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Whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council. And whoever says, you fool, or literally raka, that's the verse in or the word in the original language, will be liable to the hell of fire.

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So what are we talking about here with regard to calling somebody a fool? Whoever says you fool will be liable to the hell of fire.

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This is after he has said everyone who is angry with his brother is liable to judgment. Now does the

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Bible say that we cannot be angry ever with anybody for whatever reason? No.

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No, it doesn't say that. In fact, it says there's a righteous anger. Exactly. Yeah. It says be angry and do not sin.

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So you can be angry in such a way that is not sinful. So Jesus says here, I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.

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Well, do we have a contradiction there? What would the anger toward his brother be?

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Like anger is in you want to murder them. Yeah. Right. You want to cause him harm. Yeah. You have disdain for him.

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Yeah. You hate him. It's really the nature of the anger there. Whoever insults his brother.

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So you're tearing somebody down. Right. You want to make them feel low. Yeah. You're treating them as less than you.

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The person who insults his brother in this way is liable to the council. And whoever says you fool will be liable to the hell of fire.

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So this is said in an angry disparaging way in which to tear a person apart with your words.

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Yeah. That's the intention there. Right. Whereas the way that Paul uses it in 1

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Corinthians 15, is that what he intends? No. Does he want to tear the Corinthians down and make them feel like idiots?

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Soon as I come to you guys. He wants to bring it to their attention. Yeah. Like you guys are not thinking with the entire part of your head.

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So in 1 Corinthians 15, 35, someone will ask, how are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?

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You foolish person. What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain.

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But God gives it a body as he has chosen and to each kind of seed its own body.

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So he's challenging the Corinthians who in their error have dismissed the concept of life after death.

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And they're even questioning it. Well, maybe there isn't life after death. I mean, if somebody is going to come back to life after they've died, what kind of body are they going to come with?

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Right. And Paul is saying, you're a fool. You can see from nature evidence of this, that a seed even takes on another body when it grows out of the ground.

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And so you, likewise, when you die, you're going to have another body when you enter into glory.

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Right. It's an imperishable body. Whereas the body that we live in now is perishable. Obviously.

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The body that we are going to have in eternity is going to be imperishable. So he's pointing to natural revelation.

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There's even things in the general revelation of things that you can look at and point to and see evidence of life after death.

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Right. Though nobody has experienced life after death and then come back to talk about it.

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Right. So Paul's pointing them toward, here's things that you can look at for yourself.

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You can see. That's right. You have evidence of that. So is he therefore violating

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Jesus' instruction in Matthew 5 by calling the Corinthians fools? He's saying that they're ignorant.

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Yes. And they should know better. Right. Proverbs, over and over again, tells us not to be foolish.

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Right. But instead, we are to be wise. We are to know the instruction of the

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Lord. And Paul even says to the Ephesians, do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the

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Lord is. So there as well to the Ephesians, though he doesn't directly say you fools.

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I mean, doesn't Jesus call the disciples like thickheaded or something like that? Right. What is that?

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Well, he said to Peter, get behind me, Satan. Right. So, I mean, that's kind of the biggest one. Yeah. That's true.

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When the disciples were unable to cast out the demon that was in the boy that was having seizures or it was making a mute in Mark 9, he said, oh, faithless generation, how long am

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I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? And then he did call the Pharisees fools.

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That's in Matthew 23. He calls them blind fools. And I think it's Luke 11 40.

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He directly says, you fools. Yeah. So it's the what is the heart behind the address?

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You fool. That's what Jesus is challenging in Matthew five. Right. You have a heart that's hateful.

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So it's the same as if you've murdered someone in your heart. Whereas if Jesus is going to call somebody a fool, it's not out of hatred.

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He loves that person and wants them to be corrected. Right. And to come to the truth. Calling it to their attention.

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Yeah. He's calling out their ignorance. Well, in Paul's case, he's calling out. Yeah. Yeah. In Paul's case, he's calling out their ignorance.

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When Jesus calls the Pharisees fools, he's calling them hypocrites. It's synonymous with calling them hypocrites there.

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True. But. But anyway. Hey, good to ask these things, Aaron. And I hope that was helpful to you.

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Yeah. Let's do one last one. I think I can fit one more in here. OK. This is from Jenna. Hi, Pastor Gabe.

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My husband and I have always had a dislike for churches that are seeker sensitive. I know some people who are involved in churches like this, and it really disappoints me.

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We believe worship to God should be elevated and not meant to appear like a concert or a show in regard to churches that appear hip or seeker sensitive.

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Is this necessarily always wrong? Are these people who attend and preach there saved and maybe just have a different viewpoint on this?

25:34

I guess my question boils down to how big a deal is it to attend or be a part of churches such as these.

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The church that made me think of this is one that I'd like you to take a look at. Their website is blank, and I'm going to look at the website here in a minute.

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You'll notice that all the wives are referred to as pastors as well. Not all seeker sensitive churches have this huge error specifically, but it calls into question again whether or not real

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Christians can be a part of a church like this. Well, if you're in a church where the pastors include women, then leave.

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Go find another church. That's not just seeker sensitive. That's just flat out doctrinal error.

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Where they're wrong there, they're going to be wrong in many other places as well. With regard to a lot of these seeker sensitive churches, are they automatically disqualified?

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Are they automatically unchristian? No. The majority of them are probably really messy on their doctrine, but this always starts with good intentions.

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We want to draw people in. We want to hear them hear the gospel. What kind of gimmick can we do that's going to get their attention and bring them to church so that we can preach the gospel to them?

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It starts with good intentions, but it's very pragmatic, and then it takes that same sort of ideology or methodology in order to keep them there.

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What you win them with is what you win them to. If it takes pragmatism to get them in the door, then it's going to take pragmatism to keep them there.

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Many churches from that point... Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is why a lot of pastors experience burnout.

27:10

Yeah, for sure. Because they were probably doing this. That's not in 100 % of the cases, but that's,

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I think, a great deal to do with it. They have to do all this stuff to try to stay relevant and attract people and be entertaining to folks.

27:24

That can wear you out. You can't keep doing that. Just preach the word. Right. So, it certainly leads to a lot of doctrinal error, but I don't know that we just automatically dismiss a church as the

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Holy Spirit is not there, just because we might also label them as seeker -sensitive.

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And Jenna, with regard to that link, I'll take a look at it and give you a more private response. Yeah. When I respond to the email.

27:49

Anything else, babe? I don't think so. Okay. This is the first Friday in December.

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Yes. So, we're less than three weeks away from Christmas. So crazy to think that.

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How fast this month is going. Yes. So, we'd love to hear some Christmas questions from you and maybe put together a

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Christmas program. Once again, the email address is whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com or send us a voicemail to wwutt .com

28:19

and click on that voicemail tab there on the top of the page. Record your voicemail from your phone or your computer, and we would love to hear from you.

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Yes. All right. Let's pray. Yes, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for the time that we have together reading your

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Word, responding to these questions, being challenged by things. And I pray that we would be wise and not foolish, that we would know your

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Word and how to apply it and even how we might share it with others so that they too may have their thinking challenged and have their hearts open to hear the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

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He who died on the cross rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God, is coming back again to judge the world in righteousness.

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All those who believe in him will not perish but have eternal life. May this gospel be our great love each and every day, and we learn how to communicate it more each day.