SRR #49 | Answering Questions Christians Have For Other Christians

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June 29, 2017

00:02: I do a podcast. I'm not interested in your podcast. These are these are wolves
00:11: Truth be told that I oftentimes Lay awake at night trying to figure out how I can get rid of wolves in the church
00:23: We are unabashedly Unashamedly Clarkian and so the next few statements that I'm going to make
00:29: I'm probably going to step on all of the Vantillian toes at the same time and This is what we do at simple riff around the radio.
00:35: You know, we are polemical and polarizing Jesus style I would first say that to characterize
00:50: What we do as fashion is itself Fashion, it's not hate its history.
00:57: It's not fashion. It's the Bible Jesus said woe to you and men speak well of you for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way
01:11: As opposed to blessed are you when you have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness? It is on we're taking the gloves off.
01:23: It's time to battle All right, welcome back everybody this is
01:32: Tim with Semper Ephraim on the radio and I have with me our other co -host
01:38: Joseph Rios and Very glad to be with you guys. We're very glad that you're tuning into our podcasts.
01:45: We are part of the Bible thumping wingnet Network and What I believe a wrath and grace radio has stated that they're going to leave but there's a
01:56: I think there's nine other podcasts I'm not sure if we've kept the number to ten because I think we added a podcast.
02:03: Well, actually it wasn't a podcast It's a it's a sermon. I think it's uh, do you know what it is?
02:09: Joseph is it Christ the rock? I don't I have no clue. I Feel like I feel like we should know this though, right?
02:16: Yeah. Yeah, we should keep up with everything that All right, so it is
02:23: Christ the rock church sermons I've been listening to it I think They have some pretty good stuff
02:29: I He quoted the Westminster Confession of Faith. I believe that they're reformed I don't
02:34: I'm not sure if they're Presbyterian or Baptist, but I've enjoyed the last couple of Episodes that I've heard from them.
02:42: So it looks like you know, I know that Tim is always looking for good quality content.
02:48: So You know, I know that we're losing wrath and grace radio But hopefully we'll be getting some some other good stuff coming our way so With that.
02:59: I also wanted to mention that the the series that we did on Mother Mary Tim Kaufman is actually doing a blog series and This is really really good because As we were recording those episodes.
03:17: I had access to Tim Kaufman's notes and And all of that stuff he's putting in a blog so that goes
03:25: Perfectly with the episode you can you can listen to the episode follow along. It's great stuff
03:31: Yeah, you have the resources right there. It's a knockout for the
03:36: Roman Catholic position on Mother Mary, so I definitely want to recommend that to you.
03:42: I just Published I just republished an old article from our old blog
03:48: Site I wrote the article like two years ago, I believe or maybe a year ago, but it's it's titled rejecting logic
03:56: So we're going to be we're going to be trying to transfer some of that content over to the
04:02: Semper Reformanda radio blog page As as we as we go along So just if you want make a make a profile join our group so that way you can get updates on everything that we do and And so that's that's pretty much it for the way of announcements.
04:22: Um today what we're going to be doing is We've been planning to talk about this for what has it been now just of a month two months three months
04:31: And it just keeps getting pushed back Yeah, no, it's it's it's been a little while now. I remember
04:36: Writing up the questions for this and then we realized there were more questions than then who had originally thought that uh
04:42: I think that you know it's interesting. I don't think that that when this came out matters I think these are these are things that we deal with Regularly, I don't get it going away anytime soon as far as uh as far as the content
04:54: So I'm looking forward to talking about it. Yeah, and I remember so I canceled on you twice
05:01: And then you canceled on me, and we've just been hitting the ball back and forth and so finally we're going to record this
05:08: We're going to we're going to talk about a video. That's on YouTube It's a pretty popular video, and we're going to go ahead and play it and it's titled questions
05:18: Christians have for other Christians and I guess the reason I wanted to do this was because there's a character in there that seems to be pretty well liked by the the
05:30: Christian community his name is John Crist and He's a he's a
05:35: Christian comedian And I'm sure that a lot of people have a lot of Christians have seen his stuff because I've seen them like it and post it
05:44: But he does the the church hunters YouTube Thing where it's a little spoof of house hunters
05:52: He does a number of a couple of other you know comedy videos from like a
05:58: Christian perspective I believe that he's a Christian comedian, and he's he's part of this video and I You know it just it kind of raises a lot of concern about where he's at theologically
06:11: I know a lot of people are liking his stuff and promoting his stuff but I I think that we just got to be careful with you know what we promote and and who we promote and you know
06:25: I Don't know where this guy stands as far as his his faith or his Christian walk
06:31: But I would not be caught dead in a video like this so I mean it raises concerns
06:40: You know I don't I don't see anything blasphemous in and some of the videos that he's done
06:46: Outside of this you know I know that Joseph you said you had a kind of an issue with the church hunters deal
06:52: You want to tell me why again? Yeah, no problem so so the
06:59: Like I was saying to you earlier the the part of it that I like is it's Paul. It's kind of calling out
07:05: What I would say professors of faith, but not Possessors of it the way they look for for church body.
07:14: It's about pleasing them It's about making themselves happy and and it fitting them and needing to fit
07:20: Everything they want need and if it doesn't if it's not perfect, then they'll look for another one so I appreciate the
07:27: The I mean that that kind of needs to be pointed out That's how that's helpful in a way, but the problem is is that he presents it as if that those are
07:35: Christians and and so I think the scripture makes clear the priorities of somebody who's of faith
07:45: And and these people don't have those priorities according to the way he does his comedy
07:51: It doesn't seem he has them either and so and so I don't see how it edifies the body
07:57: I don't see that how that how that shows love and care for Your brothers and sisters in Christ and and so I think that I don't know they're not blasphemous against God, but But I think we need to we and I think it's actually a good reminder for all of us that we need to be very careful how we talk about Christ's bride whether it be the individual or the group
08:24: Well, let me ask you do you think that the video could be taken as What is it like hyperbole is that the word
08:33: I'm looking for Where it's sort of an exaggeration where you know Christians are looking for that perfect church
08:39: And then and then it's like you know they don't have a bookstore. They don't have a coffee shop or a man
08:45: I can't stand the worship here, and I always find that one funny because you know it's like what
08:51: When you look at the the churches that Paul was writing to it's like what what did they have as far as music
08:58: You know I really want to Know what possibly the
09:03: Psalms. Yeah, no I know right, but they didn't have this band They didn't I mean they were meeting in houses.
09:09: They didn't have all this stuff, and so I'm just wondering if maybe it could just be hyperbole
09:15: There's another video that I caught part of I might have watched the whole thing and it's where you know he's he's acting as if somebody that has the
09:23: Bible verse for every occasion and so everything I've seen from him really is just about making fun of certain types of Christians and so the
09:37: I It seems like to be that that's his form of comedy is to is to make fun
09:43: I guess it's one thing if you were to make fun of yourself, right? But but it, but I don't see the
09:49: I don't see the benefit. I don't see the the good side of your the source of amusement that you show the world is how you how you think all these
10:00: Christians are messed up and got it wrong and and They take themselves too seriously or however you want to put it
10:07: I Haven't seen any of his comedy that doesn't make fun of the body, so it's I it seems to be his modus operandi
10:15: Yeah, yeah, okay, I can I mean I have to think a little bit more about that because I think
10:21: I'd need to go back And watch the videos again But let me uh let me do this let me step away real fast
10:28: We're gonna do a time -lapse here because I need to charge my phone and the chargers downstairs
10:35: So I'm gonna get myself some water real quick to all right Time out everybody or you know what
10:40: I'll just go ahead and play the commercial right now all right We'll be back in a minute Striving for eternity and the
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13:20: Um, just let me ask you when you go out and do evangelism. Do you use tracks? Yes, I do no, so It's I mean it depends on which one
13:31: I'm doing But I usually have them with me. I always have tracks on me Yeah, one of the one of the
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13:47: So if we're talking to Roman Catholics, like dude, we could totally put on like like check out
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13:59: Going to I'm gonna put that in motion. Okay. I don't know when I've got like a million things
14:06: I'm doing right now this week And this week was so busy because we had the classical conversations practicum
14:15: But you know, that's that's just been really busy. But what were we gonna say? No, I say
14:21: There's a two of the people that I do evangelism evangelism with with my you know on Sundays with with the men that I worship with We're both raised a
14:32: Roman Catholic and so and both of them speak Spanish And so I'm sure one of them if not, both of them one of them wants to do tracks for our own church
14:41: So then that way we're handing out our own stuff And then the other one who has written out something for himself that I haven't read yet That would be helpful because I know that between the
14:52: Between the the the Italians the Hispanic population and the in the Irish.
14:58: We've got almost all Roman Catholics on the earth Covered and so Spanish might be helpful. Also Yeah, I think it would be you should get with those guys man and maybe get some tracks
15:09: All right. So look we're gonna go ahead and play this video It's titled questions Christians have for other
15:16: Christians now some of the things that the people in here say I think
15:22: Probably as an indication that they may not be a Christian and I can't make that statement definitive
15:28: I don't know, but I would say that it's very alarming and I would say that this is very much representative of where Cultural Christianity is and It reveals a serious lack of wisdom discernment and knowledge and so I wanted to read this from an article written by John Robbins and the article is titled the church irrational and it says the lack of discernment is the lack of wisdom and Knowledge it is an intellectual deficiency professed churches and professed
16:09: Christians Lack discernment today because they do not know or believe the truth they profess to but they do not those who decry
16:19: The lack of discernment in today's churches usually fail to attribute the lack of its first cause the purpose plan and providence of God Further they fail to indicate how
16:31: God carries out his plan how he darkens minds how he withholds his light and his face
16:39: Objectively this darkening is the dearth of preaching and the publication of the word subjectively
16:48: It is the rejection of revealed truth including at the present time the revealed truth about logical thought and so So if these if these people are
17:01: Christian They have they have no discernment and I think that it's because they lack wisdom.
17:06: They lack knowledge And they do not believe the word which you know
17:12: Everybody's at a different point in their sanctification and you know, I'd hope that they are Christians I'm not going to affirm that because of what they say but what
17:23: John Robbins also points out is the first cause of this is basically the the purpose of God that God withholds knowledge and I Believe that in light of Romans chapter 1
17:37: I Believe that we are that we are currently experiencing the outpouring of God's wrath on this nation which you know, the first thing that happens is he darkens their minds he he removes knowledge wisdom and understanding and I believe that that is the outworking of God pouring out his wrath on on A people the first thing that he does is he makes them foolish.
18:01: He removes Wisdom from them truth from them and He hands them over to a debased mind.
18:09: He hands them over to a reprobate mind and you know, it's it's alarming where where we're at in our society because Man, I remember growing up as a kid and I never heard anything about homosexuality on TV So we've gone from Homosexuality being okay to now they're pushing transgenderism and They're not only doing this in the mainstream, but they're doing this they're targeting kids and we've talked about that before so this is this is another example of people who are professing to be
18:48: Christian and Who are there? It's very subtle, but I believe that they're pushing an
18:54: Antichrist agenda and Unfortunately this comedian that everybody likes
19:00: John Crist He's in this video. He asks a couple of questions and and so we're gonna we're gonna play this video
19:07: And then we're gonna go through and we're going to try to tackle some of these questions now
19:12: Some of these questions are stupid. They're just superficial and it's like well, okay You're just making a cute little video.
19:18: Like we're not really gonna take much time to answer that because it's dumb So let's go ahead and play the video and then and then we'll take it from there, okay
19:29: Do you really think he's freaking out because his name is not on a cup that you could hold for 10 minutes while you drink? a pumpkin spice latte
19:39: Why does Christian music always sound like a mixture of like Nickelback and third -eye blind?
19:45: Did your devotions actually happen if you didn't post about it on Instagram? How come we all love Tim Tebow? I mean,
19:51: I do love him. I just don't know why why can't you just pray? Why does it have to be a prayer and then like someone in the background being like?
19:58: Yeah, how come everyone's still supporting Donald Trump? Why are we so afraid to talk about sex?
20:04: Sex is good Have you read Song of Sullivan? How come we all love Chick -fil -a? Why do you think Facebook is an appropriate place to discuss theology?
20:12: Why when Paul said that we all have our own individual gifts that we feel the need to fit into this absolutely perfect mold
20:20: That's impossible. Why are we as Christians more known by the things we hate? Than by our acts of love.
20:26: Why do you think Christianity and science are incompatible if anything science makes God look a lot cooler
20:31: Why are you so adamant about exercising your religious freedoms? But then get so offended when people of other faith exercise their religious freedoms
20:38: Why do you feel like I have to constantly be preaching in order to be a good Christian? It's showing my friends love and grace not allowed to just speak for itself.
20:46: Sometimes How come there's a church on every block but for some reason we can't figure out a way to work together Why is there so much racism sexism and homophobia in the church?
20:55: Galatians 3 28 says there's neither junior Greek neither slave nor free nor male nor female for all one in Christ Jesus So doesn't that pretty much tell you that none of that stuff matters?
21:06: Why when the main message of the Bible is to love one another that we choose to do the opposite?
21:12: How come when we talk about men having several wives in the Old Testament we say cultural context? But then when we talk about marriage today, it's strictly one man and one woman
21:20: Why does having a diverse group of friends make me less Christian? Why does the church consider LGBT Christians as less than?
21:27: I don't remember there being a demographic of people that Jesus saw as less than You know all that grace and forgiveness and love we've all received
21:33: How come we can't find a way that extend that to other people? Why do you feel like love the sinner and hate the sin is an okay thing to say?
21:40: You realize that's condescending and still separating them as an other, right? Why do you think you can judge my relationship with God off of a handful of statements?
21:48: You get mad at me for not being able to back up what I have to say But you end up taking scripture out of context so many times
21:56: What makes you decide what makes me a good Christian? Last I checked, everyone's relationship with God is personal
22:03: In the end, the grand message here is that you're supposed to love one another And I'm sorry if I sound like a hallmark after school special But it's the truth
22:13: All right, that was the horrible antichrist agenda
22:22: Or commercial or whatever you want to call it So Joseph, first thoughts man, how awful was that?
22:31: So when you first sent me the video, my response was
22:39: The questions non -Christians have for Christians And I think that says how
22:45: I feel about it Nothing about that was Christian Nothing about the questions were
22:52: I mean, I can understand the error or the tone which was used
22:59: I had an error of, I don't know, arrogance might be the right word
23:05: Condescension They were as if it was absurd that they had to ask the question in the first place
23:13: And I would agree it would be absurd to ask those questions If you knew what the scripture taught on those things
23:21: Yeah, and so the last question I think applies to you What makes you decide what makes me a good
23:27: Christian? Last I checked, everybody's relationship with God is personal So that's for you
23:33: Joseph Because you just questioned And then, yeah,
23:40: I think you hit the nail on the head with The description of condescension
23:45: Which is kind of funny Because the one girl that was accusing Christians of being condescending
23:52: I thought she was being condescending But so this was an awful hot mess
24:00: What do you say we just go through these questions and tackle them And we will try to answer some of these stupid questions
24:09: That these professing Christians have for Christians What do you say, man?
24:15: That sounds good Okay, so the first question is Do you really think he is freaking out because his name is not on a cup
24:23: That you have to hold for 10 minutes while drinking a pumpkin spice latte? So obviously they're going after the whole
24:32: Red Cup, Starbucks debacle I really don't have much to say on this
24:38: It doesn't look like you typed out many notes on this Because I think this is dumb And I think that, and so It sets the tone, right?
24:48: It sets the tone for the whole thing It sets the tone to make all of the questions seem as if they're absurd
24:55: To be asked in the first place Well, you're right But here's the other thing This is what's really interesting
25:01: It's like as a Christian, I would agree As a Bible -believing Christian who takes my faith very seriously
25:08: I would agree that like that whole Like let's protest Starbucks because they have a Red Cup And they're not putting like Santa Claus and Christmas stuff on it
25:16: I think that was really absurd I think that was really dumb And so they're presenting themselves as the rational, the intellectual
25:25: Christian It's like, look guys, this is absurd Let's not get carried away with protesting a company because they have a
25:34: Red Cup Or because his name isn't written on the cup
25:40: And so it's kind of interesting that this is the first question
25:47: It's almost like a gateway drug You know, it's like, okay, yeah, you got me Like, yeah,
25:53: I agree with you And that sounds reasonable And therefore you're reasonable And so, you know,
25:59: I'm with you And then from there, they take that And then they just jump into Well, let's continue with this idea that we're rational
26:10: That we're intellectual That we're not the Fundy Mundies, you know, of the
26:16: Christian world We're not the weirdos and the lunatics And so, yeah,
26:22: I mean, I agree with them on that Like, to a point But I think maybe there's a better way to ask that question and deal with that issue
26:32: But anything else on that one? Oh, unfortunately, I think from the liberal side of things I can't comment on that Because I don't have any personal experience with a pumpkin spice latte
26:42: So I'll have to withhold my opinion since I don't understand Yeah, you're going to have to explain that That went over my head
26:49: All right, no, if you haven't gone through the experience Then you can't talk about it If you're not one of these people, you can't talk about it in terms of overall arguments
26:58: And so, yeah, I'm excluded from being able to have a valuable opinion on this
27:04: It's a stupid question Yeah, you know, it's really funny Side track, side note The article that I recently just wrote,
27:11: I criticized Stephen Hawking And with something that he says about the universe creating itself
27:18: And one of the guys at work said, well, you know, you're not a physicist So you have no basis for criticizing
27:25: Stephen Hawking Because you're not a physicist And so, man, I took that to the bank
27:31: I was like, okay, well, he's not a Christian And you're not a Christian So you have no, you can't criticize
27:37: Christianity I mean, he just cut himself down with an ax It was beautiful, man
27:43: Because like everything he said, I was like, well, you're not a Christian You can't answer that Convert to Christ and then you can criticize
27:49: Christianity But it's like, once you do that, you're not going to be criticizing it once you do that So anyways, yeah, so I liked your little comment right now
28:01: All right, so why does Christian music sound like a mixture of Nickelback and Third Eye Blind? I don't really know
28:08: I really don't know I really don't remember who Nickelback was or who Third Eye Blind was
28:15: So, I mean, it was back in, I think, the 90s or early 2000s
28:20: I don't know, I don't care Did you want, I saw that you wrote something on that Did you want to say anything about it?
28:26: Yeah, sure, okay So I'd say for, so I'm just not a fan of contemporary
28:34: Christian music to a degree It seems, it's almost like as far as quality of music, the standard in general is lower
28:43: And that might be why it sounds that way But I would say it doesn't I wouldn't, and to that effect,
28:50: I wouldn't qualify all music that's called Christian as Christian I mean, there's a couple of groups out there that come out of a different, and I hate,
29:03: I don't know, I'm trying to find another word for churches But that aren't, they're not
29:10: Christians You've got, you've got Beth, this is in my notes, I'm almost reading it verbatim You've got Bethel and Hillsong, neither one of them are
29:18: Christian churches But people think they are, and so they call it
29:24: Christian music And the worst part is, is I've listened to one of the songs that I like And I would never point somebody to that band or to that song
29:37: Because I don't want to point them in the direction of any of those places
29:43: And so even if a broken clock's right twice a day You don't use it to tell time
29:51: Yeah But let's go on to the third question Did your devotions actually happen if you did not post about it on Instagram?
30:00: Does Twitter count? Oh man, you know, they didn't ask that question, I don't know
30:05: Maybe we could do devotions on YouTube and record them Or we could do it like this, and we'll do our devotions
30:12: Yeah, or Facebook Yeah, so there's Twitter, there's Facebook, there's...
30:18: I think you could do Snapchat too Oh, Snapchat, that's a good one, yeah If you have a group going in Marco Polo, you can do it that way
30:24: Marco Polo's actually super useful, but... I have no idea what you're talking about I have something my wife and I use
30:30: Okay But okay, so I think that the main...
30:37: That's a good question, interestingly enough I think that there's two reasons why people do that One of them is to, you know, point to God, give him glory
30:50: You know, the scripture says, do your good works before men So that they may give glory to your father who's in heaven
30:56: And you've got the contrast to it, which is, you know, beware of the warning of practicing your righteousness before others to be noticed by them
31:07: Otherwise, you have no reward from your father who's in heaven So you've got those two contrasts And it really just, I think it just depends on what your goal is, right?
31:15: I think that a lot of people put that kind of stuff up This sense of piety of, you know,
31:23: I have my coffee, my Bible And I've posted those kinds of pictures in there And they do it so that people can see them do it
31:32: And then there's people who post that stuff just to be an encouragement to others That this is what they're studying This is what they're working through So they can be encouraged by that And so the bad part about it is some people do it for the wrong reasons
31:46: And even though some people do it for the right ones Yeah, that's good I'm glad you said that Okay, so the next question is by John Crist And he says, how can we all love
32:01: Tim Tebow? And then he says, I mean, I love him, but why? Or something like that But yeah, you know,
32:09: I really don't care that much I don't, I really,
32:15: I mean, it's kind of like If I saw Tim Tebow, I'd probably just shake his hand and say hi
32:21: Like, I wouldn't really care to I mean, the people that I would be more excited about seeing would be, you know, somebody like John MacArthur Or, you know,
32:33: Votie Baucom Or, you know, Paul Washer Or somebody like that, like R .C.
32:40: Sproul I'd be more excited about seeing some of those people
32:45: And I think the reason why is because I feel like, man I would have so much more to talk to them about with Tim Tebow Like, I don't really watch football that much, you know
32:56: It's like, I just don't care And, you know, it's like, hey,
33:01: I heard he saved somebody on a plane Or he did something like that, like gave somebody I don't know what he did
33:07: He did something on a plane And I might be able to ask him about that But like, hey, if I meet
33:13: John MacArthur, I want to talk about some things If I meet R .C. Sproul, like,
33:18: I want to talk about his eschatology Like, I want to talk about, like, what he thinks about Clark Like, I could spend a lot of time with these guys talking to them
33:28: And so, yeah, I mean, I like Tim I love Tim Tebow as a brother in Christ But I get what he's saying
33:35: It's like, why do we all look up to him? He's awesome I don't really have much more to say about that Yeah, and my thoughts
33:45: I think people have a lot of, they put a lot of hope in popular Christianity Or popular
33:50: Christians They see, and I think some of this stuff actually can be really encouraging
33:56: They see somebody who is in what is typically a very, like, you know, worldly position
34:02: Whether, you know, they're influenced either by their fame or by their money And they seem to be consistently faithful And I think that's why a lot of people like him or are encouraged by him
34:15: But I also think that, you know, people jump on the whole, you know, celebrity Christian thing
34:21: And just are so, you know, encouraged But perhaps just because of their status that they're doing that But they're speaking their faith in that public forum
34:35: My question to that just ends up returning to How encouraged are you by somebody who stands outside that you don't know proclaiming the gospel?
34:43: And why would you be one more than the other? Yeah, that's a good contrast And this is not to knock
34:49: Tim Tebow Because I think the guy's cool I, you know, I like him I just,
34:54: I don't know what I would talk to him about So, I mean, but I mean,
34:59: I could talk to him about Maybe he knows Clarkian apologetics better than you And we just don't know that I doubt it
35:08: Not because, oh man, I hope that I'm not accused of being pious I just,
35:13: I really, Clark is very, he's not very well known But yeah, okay, good job there
35:19: All right, so number five Why can't you just pray? Why does there have to be someone in the background playing music?
35:27: A good point, you know I saw that you wrote something But can we just move on?
35:33: Yeah, that's fine Okay Uh, how come everyone is still supporting Donald Trump?
35:40: Uh, so I don't know I don't know when this was, uh, when this was put out Did you, did you check when this was put out?
35:47: Was this during the, um, the, when he was a candidate? Or do you know? I'm not sure
35:53: Um, you were just playing it a second ago Can you, can you Yeah, let me look, let me look Um My mouse is being funny
35:59: So let me search your faces Uh, I actually don't see the date that it was posted Oh yeah, November 8th
36:05: Oh wow, okay So wait a minute Um, I believe the date was
36:12: November 28th, 2015 That's, that's interesting So I guess, um, you know
36:19: I would hope that they would support him as their president Uh, and I know that it's difficult to support, uh, people who you disagree with But, um,
36:30: I hope that they would support him as a president And pray for him And, uh, want him to succeed
36:37: And want him to, to do, to make the right decisions To make the right choices, uh, you know
36:43: As Christians, I, I very much disagreed with, uh, Barack Obama And I, I, but I very much disagree with a lot of what the
36:53: Republicans are doing as well And I think, you know, supporting them in, in the, the way that we, we can pray about We can pray for them
37:03: We can pray for, for these, uh, these representatives I think, uh, you know, that's what
37:10: I would hope I, you know, I don't, I don't know You know, the thing is, like, they're asking This is a, a video where, you know, they're asking questions
37:18: And it's like, well, to really get to the heart of the matter We would have to ask you, what do you mean by support?
37:23: Like, you don't want us to vote for him Or you don't, uh, you don't want us to, uh, say nice things about him
37:31: Or, you know, what, what kind of support are you against? And, um, you know, who do you support?
37:40: I mean, are you supporting Hillary? Or are you supporting Bernie Sanders? Socialism is anti -Christian
37:48: And maybe we can do a, a piece on that in the future But, uh, you know, yeah, that's, those are my thoughts on that Yeah, so, so the,
37:59: I mean, there's, there's the, you know I would go to Romans 13, 1 through 7 I'm not gonna,
38:04: I'm not gonna read them all right now But, um, um, you know, the, Paul, Paul references, um, you know
38:12: He made the mistake of accidentally speaking against the high priest And when corrected on it, he, he realized it
38:17: And, um, even though the high priest was obviously corrupt I think some Christians, um, think that because, uh, an authority is corrupt
38:27: They can ignore, um, the, the position of authority But when, when the scriptures, whether it be
38:32: Roman, you know Paul in Romans or Peter in 1 Peter are, are writing about, um Submitting yourself to, to human institutions or authorities or governments or emperor
38:42: Um, that they were corrupt then Um, and, and so, um,
38:47: I, I, the, the, one of the, the Paul referenced, uh, Exodus 22, 28 You should not curse God nor, um, curse the ruler of your people
38:55: Um, we're, we're told to pray for him Um, we're, we're told to submit to him, give honor to whom honor is due
39:00: So I, I think that the, the right thing to do is, um, is support him, um, as president
39:06: Um, it doesn't say agree with him, right? Um, and I think, uh, John the Baptist is a wonderful example of, of, um,
39:14: Of calling somebody out for their sin, um, their, their sin that they're committing Um, but, uh, but it's, uh, you know, it's
39:24: I think people take, uh, take a little bit more freedom here Um, they're, they're comfortable with slander and with, uh, with accusations without evidence
39:33: Um, because somebody on the screen in front of them told them that they were true Um, and, and they, and they completely disregard the, the explicit teaching, um, of Paul and Peter in regards to how we should, uh, to deal with, uh, or, or consider, deal with, uh, behave about, uh, people in authority
39:54: Um, I, at the same time, I just want to be very clear, you know, in regards to the election and Trump, I'm not super political, um, but I believe it was choosing the lesser of two evils, which
40:04: I don't think you can And, and so, um, I by no means think he's, uh, he's a believer
40:11: I don't think he's a Christian I think some people took him as he was, right? And they were supporting him because they were, he, he made a profession of faith, even though he said he didn't have anything to ask
40:19: God for forgiveness for, which obviously makes him, uh, not a Christian by biblical standards
40:25: And I guess we're going to get to that question later also Um, but, uh, we talked about it briefly But it's, uh, we're supposed to That's the simple answer
40:34: We're supposed to because the scripture says so Right, yeah, I, I don't think he's a Christian either
40:40: And, um, you know, it's, it's very clear It's like, just because somebody professes to be a
40:47: Christian, doesn't make them a Christian And when somebody says that they don't have anything to, like you said, like he, he said he has nothing to ask for forgiveness for, um, he, he does not exhibit
40:58: Christian character Um, and it, what's funny is like the, the patriotic
41:03: Christians, they get really upset if you say this and it's like, dude, the guy just, he, he does not exhibit anything that is
41:13: Christian I've not seen him profess that Christ is a savior He, to me, it seems like he doesn't think that he needs a savior
41:21: Um, so I would say pray for that man, support him, pray for him He needs
41:27: Christ and he needs wisdom And, you know, I pray for, I pray for this country
41:33: Uh, pray for the, the church in this country as well So, alright, number seven, um, so this is, this is interesting
41:41: Why are we so afraid to talk about sex? Sex is good Have you read the
41:47: Song of Solomon? So, um, here's the thing, there's, I mean, there's, there's a time and a place to talk about sex, um, and if you're not mature enough to recognize that, now, like, what is she talking about?
42:03: I don't know what beef she has, but, um, you know, it's sort of, it's sort of, um, like, how, um, if, if people saw the, the
42:14: Bill Nye saves the world, um, skits that everybody was upset about, where he has like different flavors of ice cream and vanilla is the
42:25: Christian and he's like real, he's a prude, he's just real, you know, bland and boring and then all these other flavors come in and, you know, they're all, you know, trying to get him to open up a little bit about, uh, his, his views or whatever and, like, if that's what, if that's what she's after, then
42:48: I'm repulsed by it because it's wicked The Bible does talk about sex, there's an appropriate time, an appropriate place, an appropriate audience,
42:57: I, you know, certain things I wouldn't say to, like, if you're struggling with pornography, do not go and just openly talk about that with, you know, other, you know, if you're a guy doing that, like, don't go and confide in women, like, be smart about it, be, but then again, uh,
43:18: Joseph, this goes back to what I read about, uh, with, with John Robbins, you know, it's like, a lack of discernment is a lack of knowledge and wisdom and understanding and so somebody like this might, you know, might want to have those conversations in an inappropriate context and, you know,
43:40: I think that could be, be very problematic Well, like, you know, I'm not the tone police,
43:45: I don't, I don't, um, I don't usually take that, that side of things, but it was, uh, the way it was asked wasn't, um, wasn't, like, a genuine question, right?
43:55: It wasn't, uh, you know, I really want to understand why a lot of times it isn't spoken about. Right. It was rhetorical.
44:02: Yes. And so it was, so the, the, the, they don't want an answer as to why, um, it, that, that why it's not spoken about much.
44:11: It's interesting because even the scripture, um, doesn't speak on it, um, for the most part directly.
44:17: It, they, they talk about you being, and he knew Eve, um, you know, so, so if we don't understand the expression there, we're going to assume that they sat and, uh, and had, and had coffee with each other, um, and then posted it on Instagram because, you know, you have to do that.
44:33: And, uh, and then they got to know each other really well. Right. But that's not what it's talking about. It's not even saying, um, that they, uh, explicitly,
44:40: I mean, you see the by -product of it, right. But, but man, it's a, it's even the scripture is, um, it's good about being modest in, in regards to those things, unless, um, unless it has to do with, uh, with show exposing sin.
44:56: And then it'll say he defiled Dinah, um, or it'll, it'll, you know, say, you know, the, with lot, uh, that, uh, that his daughters laid, uh, with him, um, which is, which is an abomination to God in so much as incest.
45:12: Um, the, it, it, but when it's talking about, you know, the intimacy between a man and a wife for the most part, um, or everything remember is usually along the lines of, uh, something of modest, even song of Solomon isn't, um, graphic, uh, so much.
45:28: Um, it's not, uh, it's, it's, it's tasteful for lack of a better way of putting it. Um, but, but the question doesn't seem to be like, even the way it's being asked, it's not looking for tasteful conversation in regards to sex.
45:39: It's like, why don't we just talk about sex? Like we talk about baseball. Yeah. You know, you were saying that you're not the tone police, but, uh, to me, it seemed like the tone was almost perverse.
45:50: That's, that's what I got out of that. So, um, but you know, whatever.
45:55: Uh, so, all right, number eight, um, how can we all love Chick -fil -A?
46:02: This, I have to laugh at this because, uh, it's kind of funny, uh, first of all, because it's delicious.
46:08: Uh, second of all, not everybody loves Chick -fil -A. Uh, Carlos, our other co -host is actually one who does not love
46:16: Chick -fil -A because he, his gripe is that they put MSG into everything and they don't tell their customers about it.
46:24: And he, he, he basically says like, just because they're, they're Christian doesn't mean that they get a free pass.
46:31: And, uh, we get into everything. Yeah, they do. Yeah. And, they don't, they don't tell people about it.
46:38: And, and that's Carlos's big, uh, but, you know, um, Carlos has shared this before.
46:43: He's a diabetic and he really takes his, he takes that stuff seriously.
46:49: And, uh, so he doesn't like Chick -fil -A. I like it. Um, I probably shouldn't like it as much as I do because I don't think it's all that healthy, but, uh, yeah,
47:01: I mean, that's all I have to say about that. What about you, man? Um, I've eaten in there a couple of times.
47:07: I don't really see what's so what's what the big deal about it is. I feel the same way about Whataburger as far as Texas is concerned.
47:12: I don't see what the big deal about it is. All right. Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute. What, what is your beef with Whataburger?
47:20: I don't know. I don't dislike it. Um, specifically. First of all, first of all, Whataburger is the best hamburger in a fast food joint that you could ever possibly get.
47:30: And Texas is the greatest country on earth. So, yeah.
47:36: And I did say country. Okay. Because I am, Hey, if we need to secede, we're happy to do it.
47:43: Yeah. Hey, you live in California. My daughter's Texan. My daughter is Texan. Uh, I lived in Texas for three years.
47:49: I prefer it to California. Um, so, so I, I agree with you. It is the best country. But, but, but, um,
47:59: I remember, so, so the total, total side note, having nothing to do with what we're really talking about, uh, went there one time, had a avocado and bacon burger thing.
48:07: And, and it wasn't great. And I'm just like, how do you have, uh, have these two things on a burger?
48:13: And it's not great. And I was really underwhelmed. So, uh, so that was my first experience with that. My, my nine -year -old, uh, who was then, uh,
48:20: I think, uh, seven, um, thinks it's fantastic. So, so you guys agree on that, but, um, but yeah.
48:30: Yeah. Sorry for, for getting Texan and defensive there. All right. Anyways.
48:35: All right. Number nine. Uh, why do you think Facebook is an appropriate place to discuss theology?
48:41: Well, we we've griped about Facebook before, and I actually do think that it's an appropriate place to, uh, discuss theology, but I think that the way that people go about it is unhelpful and, and the person needs to be discerning, uh, with how much time to give to these discussions.
49:02: And so, um, I think, I think that's our, our big gripe is that there's a lot of, there's a lot of people out there who are trying to attack others and, and, uh, just misrepresent people and argue and just love to argue.
49:18: And if you're one of those people, I think that you should probably just take a step back a little bit, breathe and, and not, not allow
49:26: Facebook to consume your time. And so for us, the reason I hate Facebook, I say
49:32: I hate Facebook, but I really don't. But the reason I hate it is because, um, I used to have a big problem with just letting people suck me into debates.
49:43: And I would, I mean, I remember arguing with atheists till, I mean, to no end.
49:51: And, you know, going back over some of these arguments, looking back at them,
49:58: I realized, man, people just, they don't care. They, they're, they're intellectually dishonest.
50:04: They, they just, I mean, they're little trolls and they, they want to tear you down.
50:10: They, they're not seeking the truth. And so, you know, the Bible says, uh, like Jesus said, not to cast your pearls before swine.
50:18: And at some point you have to just be discerning and say, look, I'm not,
50:23: I'm just not going to deal with certain people on Facebook. But I do think it's an appropriate, like there, there are really good groups to be a part of.
50:32: And then there are some groups that just absolutely suck. Um, the Gordon Clark discussions group, man,
50:39: I've learned so much from those guys. Uh, you know, I really, really have, uh, and I'm very grateful to all of the guys in that group that I've talked to over the years.
50:52: Um, you know, that's where we met Doug Dalma. That's where we met, uh, uh, you know, Jason Peterson, that's where I met, uh,
50:59: Luke Miner and CJ Engel and all these, all these great guys, you know, and, and it's the same thing for the
51:06: Bible thumping wing nut page. I, I've really benefited from a lot of those relationships, but I think that you just have to use wisdom and discernment there.
51:15: Um, but I do think it's an appropriate place to talk about theology. What about you, Joseph? Uh, well, you know, um, you know, we're supposed to proclaim or preach the gospel, um, at the appointed time and not at the appointed time.
51:27: Um, and so if we're going to use Facebook as a medium in which to communicate with the, with the world and, and each other,
51:32: I think that it's not excluded for, from discussing theology. Um, I think it's, you know, it is an appropriate place to discuss theology if it's done appropriately.
51:43: Um, which I think you were, you were talking about, you know, it's, uh, we, uh, we, I think we, we need to remember that, uh, that, you know, do you use the whole counsel of scripture, not in just how we defend ourselves, but in how we go about doing it.
51:56: So, you know, answer according to their folly, um, lest they be wise in their own eyes. I think we need to remember that, but also, uh, to be, uh, as much as possible, uh, graceful.
52:07: Um, and so I, we have to be really careful how we present ourselves to the world in that way. And, and, you know,
52:13: I agree with you about, um, letting it suck, um, our time. I know I've been caught up doing that.
52:19: I've actually dialed back a lot recently in regards to my discussions, uh, on Facebook for, for exactly the same reasons that you're pointing them out.
52:26: I wanted to, to, to not, I wanted to spend my time with people in real life for lack of a better way of putting it. And I do, but I wanted that to be more of my focus.
52:33: I don't want to be staring at my phone. Um, and so, uh, and so I think that's a, I think we can all be reminded to do that.
52:40: I think that a lot of well -intentioned Christians, uh, use it as a means to show that they're right, uh, not to, uh, not to defend
52:49: Christ. And so they, it's, uh, I think that they maybe intend to do that, but, um, but I don't think that, uh,
52:56: I don't think, I think that the way that they go about doing it kind of exposes their motive, um, in regards to,
53:03: I think that the, the way they approach the conversation, the way they approach the person, the way they dialogue with that person, um, can, can kind of tell a lot about what their motives are, uh, whether it's, they're, they're speaking, uh, for themselves or they're speaking for their father who sent them.
53:19: Um, and I think we need to pay attention to that, but man, it's a, it's a wonderful place to do that, uh, to, to make
53:25: Christ known. I think, um, I've started conversations with people that I knew back in high school, very liberal leaning people who
53:31: I've never would have talked to about a, had I not posted something theological. Yeah.
53:36: Those are good points, man. Uh, because you can, you can touch base with people that you knew from your past.
53:42: And, um, and here's the thing, like I, when, when people go to my Facebook, I want them to know that I'm a
53:49: Christian. So, um, but yeah, so the next question, number 10, this one,
53:55: I don't really understand, and I think it's dumb. It says, why when Paul said that we all have our own gifts that we, maybe there's a typo here, or this is really how the person said it, but, uh, why when
54:10: Paul said that we all have our own gifts that we feel the need to fit in it, this absolutely perfect mold, which is impossible.
54:18: I don't really know what the gripe is here. Um, because there are certain standards that I think
54:28: Christians should strive to live up to, and it sounds like the complaint is, you know, these people aren't living up to these standards, but then, um, the complaint is against gifts.
54:42: I don't think that she's talking about spiritual gifts. I, um, thinking maybe, so, so this is, this is what
54:51: I'm thinking, that the person probably has an artistic bend, uh, or, uh, you know, bend towards something that's musical, and likes certain music, or likes certain forms of art, or something like that, and that may not necessarily reflect
55:10: Christ in the best way, and that's, that's what I'm getting from that question.
55:15: I don't know. I need to ask the person, like, what are you talking about? What gifts are you talking about?
55:22: You know, what, what do you think it looks like to, to fit into this perfectly Christian mold?
55:29: Um, because here's the thing, like, either you're glorifying Christ, or you're not, um, and either what you're doing is a distraction, or, uh, or it's, it's building people up, and there's a lot of people out there, man, that they are just, they're like an undertow, and they just suck people under, and it's like, man, you need to really think about what you're doing, because this is not, this isn't
55:57: Christian, and you're, you're influencing other people, or you're, you're, you know, dragging people into something that I would say is, is a holiness issue.
56:09: Um, so, yeah, if you have any thoughts on that one, otherwise, I think it's too ambiguous to really nail down.
56:16: Well, I would say that there's a Bible verse for that, um, uh, Romans 8 29, for whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his son, who's perfect, um, that, that was mine, um, that he may be firstborn among many brethren, we're, we're actually, uh, prescribed by scripture to be conformed, uh, to a perfect mold.
56:42: So, that's one. Yeah, amen, amen, there you go, all right, uh, okay, next question. Why are we as Christians more known by the things we hate than by the, by the acts of love?
56:56: Um, I would say because the world hates us. The things we hate are our acts of love.
57:03: Um. Yeah, that's true, we love you enough to tell you that you are going to die in your sins and go to hell if you don't receive
57:14: Jesus Christ as your, as your Lord and Savior. Well, I mean, here's the other part, I mean, they might be referencing, and we can give it, we can try to do our best to give them the benefit of doubt as often as they give us allowance to, but, um, the, the,
57:28: I mean, there's people out there like Westboro Baptist, uh, um, who aren't Christian, um, and they represent, um, they, they represent themselves as Christians, and they're very hateful, right?
57:39: Uh, but I, I don't think that, that, that's what this question is asking. I think this question is, you know, talking about why, you know, and it's going to get to this in a, in a few, it's, it's, uh, you know, talking, talks about homosexuality.
57:52: Um, we, we, we, we're known by what we hate, uh, because we're supposed to love what
57:58: God loved and hate what God hates, um, and, and people want permission to hate, to love what
58:03: God hates, and, and we as Christians shouldn't, um, shouldn't even give, uh, you know, uh, the least bit, uh, of leeway on that, um, and, and what we consider acts of love isn't necessarily what the world considers acts of love.
58:18: In fact, um, like you just said, proclaiming the gospel is hate speech. So, um, it's, uh,
58:25: I, I think that, um, I think that this is, uh, the, the question, uh, presupposes, uh, its own version of love and not what the
58:33: Scripture teaches is love. Yeah, um, I agree with everything you said.
58:39: Um, you know, the, the problem is, is that the other problem that, that we have to recognize is that a lot of times people equate disagreement with hatred, and, um, we don't hate homosexuals.
58:55: We, we care about them. Um, but, you know, we, we, uh, do,
59:02: I mean, like you said it perfectly, um, we need to love what God loves and hate what
59:08: God hates, and, and God does, God does hate, um, you know, Paul Washer, I think, did a great job of pointing this out by saying, you know, if God, if God loves, uh, babies, then
59:19: He hates abortion. So, um, all right, so the next question, okay, uh, number 12.
59:27: Why do you think Christianity and science are incompatible? If anything, science makes
59:33: God look a lot cooler. Okay, so, oh man. Let's get into presuppositional apologetics right now.
59:40: Yeah, this is a loaded question. So, here, well, here's the problem.
59:46: Science is the, is, is one of the, it is under the banner of science that I think modern day people attack
59:56: Christianity. And so, for a lot of Christians, I think that this is a legitimate concern, and not understanding how to address science from a biblical perspective, and not understanding how to, how to think about science, and what are its, its epistemological limitations, what are some of the logical difficulties that, that are presented within science,
01:00:25: I think really can give Christians a, sort of a, an unsettled, uh, you, you know, they, they do have this knee -jerk reaction towards science because of the fact that scientism is so prevalent in today's culture.
01:00:46: And so, I, I, I certainly want to sympathize with those Christians out there who, who do, you know, have, have a struggle with reconciling science with Christianity.
01:00:58: But, you know, I don't, I don't know, because I wouldn't say that, you know, scientism is incompatible with Christianity.
01:01:08: A lot of presuppositions that scientists hold are incompatible with Christianity.
01:01:15: And so, this is, I think, a loaded question. Yeah, science makes
01:01:21: God look a lot cooler. What's really interesting is, I would want to know if this person holds to theistic evolution.
01:01:28: I would want to know, you know, do you think the Earth is billions of years old, or thousands of years old?
01:01:34: I know that there are people who hold to a framework theory, and they'll say, well, that's not, that's not really what the
01:01:40: Bible's addressing. And we can have those discussions. But, I, I seriously doubt that this person has a biblical perspective of what science is, and what its limitations are.
01:01:53: And that would be interesting to find out. But, we did do an episode on this, talking about science, and what are some of the problems that, that we face in science, concerning logic.
01:02:09: So, I'd recommend everybody go and check that out. Um, did you have anything else to add to that?
01:02:15: Just briefly, um, the, so, so science is only true, I mean, I'm just going to say some, maybe some things that we should, that are already in that, in that episode.
01:02:23: But science is only as true as it comports with the Word of God first. What's your authority? And they have to start from there, and presuppose that truth as you, as you measure evidence.
01:02:33: And people forget those things. So, I, I actually think, um, first off, let me, let me dial back for a second.
01:02:39: God doesn't need to look any cooler. I mean, the heavens declare the glory of God, the firmament, the work of His hands.
01:02:47: His glory is streamed out by creation. I don't think that, uh, the, our ability to comprehend that, um, and categorize it, makes
01:02:56: God look cooler. I think God looks plenty cool on His own. I don't even, I think it's a, it's a right word to use toward God.
01:03:02: He is awesome, in the truest sense of the word, not in the overused sense of it. Um, but, but I think we would do well to remember, uh, where our presuppositions start, uh, which is in Scripture.
01:03:13: Yeah. You know, one of the things that I always hear from people who would say that science is compatible with the
01:03:22: Bible is that they'll oftentimes say things like, well, science confirms the Bible. Well, no, it doesn't.
01:03:29: Science can't confirm the Bible is true. Uh, and when you do that, you're actually placing science above the
01:03:35: Bible. Uh, what you need to be doing is asking, does the Bible confirm my science?
01:03:42: You know, how do we know that the earth isn't billions of years old? Uh, well, because the Bible doesn't lead us to believe that and actually leads us, you can deduce from the scriptures that it's not billions of years old.
01:03:55: So, um, anyways, that's, uh, that's, there's a lot more questions on that.
01:04:01: Maybe we can talk about the framework theory. Carlos has been wanting to talk about Genesis a lot more.
01:04:08: Um, so we're going to have to make some episodes on that. Uh, number 13, why are you so adamant about exercising your religious freedoms, but then get offended when people of other faiths exercise their religious freedoms?
01:04:24: Can I start this one real quick? Go for it. Yeah. Okay. So, um, so the, the scripture, um, if we're looking at, uh, at God's people under his rule, um, didn't teach religious, religious freedom.
01:04:36: Um, I'm not a fan of religious freedom personally. I don't think it's an important thing for us. I think we would proclaim the gospel regardless of whether or not we're told we're allowed to.
01:04:44: Um, so, so for me personally, um, I would say that, um, that I'm not adamant about, uh, religious freedom.
01:04:53: I will, I am adamant about exercising my faith, uh, but it's, uh, without regard to whether or not, um, the, the civil authority is giving me the freedom to do it.
01:05:04: Um, and I am offended when other people, um, of, of false faith exercise their, their demonic doctrines in opposition to God because, um, for those reasons.
01:05:16: So, so I think, um, just to be super blunt, um, as, as to, to how
01:05:22: I respond to that question is because, uh, their, their doctrines are anti -Christ, uh, their, their lies, they deceive people, they, people believe them and suffer for eternity.
01:05:34: And because I care about them, I oppose them. Um, and, and I will, but, but exercising my religious freedoms,
01:05:40: I don't, I don't see why, uh, Christians think that that's a, that's the, that's the solution, or that's a good thing, or that helps us, uh, uh, proclaim the gospel because, um, because historically we seem to do better when we don't have them.
01:05:53: Yeah. So, okay. So I see that Carlos just jumped in. Uh, Carlos, uh, is our other co -host to Semper Firmanda Radio.
01:06:03: Carlos, did you hear the question? Hey, everyone. Uh, I didn't quite follow.
01:06:09: Okay. So let me, let me ask the question again. So we're tackling these questions. I know you saw the video, we, we, uh, from the show notes, but we're on question number 14.
01:06:19: Uh, Carlos, the question reads, why do you feel I, no, no, sorry, sorry. 13. Um, why are you so adamant about exercising your religious freedoms, but then get so offended when people of other faiths exercise their religious freedoms?
01:06:33: Uh, that's an interesting question. I think that really ties into how free we should be in our exercise of religion.
01:06:41: And it's an important question because this is something that if you look at it historically, when, when the
01:06:46: Puritans came over and they, you know, the first kind of Puritans and the pilgrims who came over here to, uh, because they wanted to practice a religion freely.
01:06:59: Uh, but there's some kind of evidence there that they ended up sort of becoming in some ways what the very thing that they were leaving by not allowing people, uh, to practice anything that was not their own religion.
01:07:13: And so, uh, it's a, it's a very, that's actually a very complicated question, but I would say, you know, at least in this country,
01:07:22: I think the proper way to go about things is to allow people to, uh, you know, have a freedom of religion, but also have the freedom, of course, to propagate the gospel because the gospel cannot be compelled by force.
01:07:37: You know, that's, that's the error that the Catholic church made and that false religions always make.
01:07:42: They always compel by force. Uh, but the gospel is not that, and Christ's kingdom at the same time is not of this world.
01:07:49: So we, um, it's, it's of little, I mean, of course there's a consequence to the fact that whether or not
01:07:55: Christianity is outlawed in a nation, but God's church will still stand regardless. And so I think it's, it's, it's, it may be, it may be an inconsistency in some ways to, to, to be, you know, as Christians to be condemning false religions.
01:08:11: And then at the same time, uh, not wanting anybody else to practice theirs, but having the freedom to practice ours, you know,
01:08:18: I would say that maybe, maybe that is a valid, uh, point, but at the same time, that very often, very often that, that really is not the case.
01:08:29: Uh, you often see that Christian, Christianity very much gets alienated and suppressed and oppressed.
01:08:35: And so, um, there's always that problem, uh, politically with, and, you know, how religion and politics mix and whatnot.
01:08:45: But yeah, I would say that we should be, we should have the freedom to propagate the gospel. Yeah. So I, I like what
01:08:52: Joseph said, uh, basically that whether you have the freedom to do it or not, you're going to do it.
01:08:58: Um, and I, I like what you, I like what you said too, Carlos, because, you know, we can, um, but let me, let me just ask you guys this, because this, this is sort of what
01:09:09: I'm getting out of this question is that this person is very subtly promoting a form of relativism, which is intended to silence the
01:09:21: Christian from speaking out against other religions, because the, the accusation, which
01:09:28: I think is unfounded is that you get offended when other people exercise their religious freedoms.
01:09:35: So the idea is live and let live. And, uh, Carlos, if you, so you didn't get to hear the, the, the video, but it is a liberal antichrist, uh, propaganda video where they're asking questions that are, that are meant to, they present themselves as the, the rational intellectual sophisticated
01:09:59: Christians. And they're asking these questions, I think really to, to, uh, sort of push an agenda.
01:10:09: And that's what I'm getting from this question. I don't get offended when other people, uh, exercise their, their religious freedom.
01:10:17: I mean, sometimes I do because some of it is just blasphemous. Uh, you know, some of the, um, the satanic stuff, you know, some of the, what about Roman Catholic mass?
01:10:30: Yeah. Well, I don't look at that. I don't get offended. I don't know.
01:10:36: That's difficult. It's all offensive to me. Yeah. I mean, it's offensive, but not in the sense in which they're implying that I'm, I'm offended for myself or I'm offended for, you know, because the way that the question is, why are you adamant about exercising your religious freedom?
01:10:55: So the, the person is implying that this is a personal offense and I don't,
01:11:01: I don't get offended for myself. I get offended for the, for the sake of Christ. Um, but because it's false because it's false and that's what
01:11:10: Joseph pointed out. Um, but I really think that there's an implicit accusation here and, and a drive towards relativism that's meant to silence the
01:11:20: Christian. Uh, like, Hey, stop being offended, live and let live. What do you guys think?
01:11:26: Well, that that's specifically contrary to the, to the scripture. You know, we're, we're supposed to always be prepared to give a defense, right?
01:11:33: For the hope or the truth that's within us. I mean, it's a, it's the scripture.
01:11:38: The scripture doesn't say live and let live. Uh, the scripture says, be willing to die for the truth. Um, so, um, that's, you know, it's a, it's a worldly philosophy, uh, that you don't find in scripture.
01:11:50: Now we, we love our enemies. Um, we pray for those who persecute us. We, we, you know, if they're, they're hungry, we feed them.
01:11:57: Um, if they need clothes, we give it to them. Um, but, um, but, but if somebody is teaching lies about, um,
01:12:05: God, which is any other religion, um, I think that we do a disservice to them by not speaking up against it.
01:12:13: Um, you know, I don't, I don't, you know, I'm not, I'm not a theonomist, so I don't, I don't know about making it illegal to have other religions.
01:12:20: I agree with Carlos and I'm sure with you, we can't compel people to believe, but, um, but it,
01:12:27: I, it's, it's hateful to not correct somebody's wrong view of God.
01:12:33: Yeah. Okay. All right. Number 14, why do you feel like I have to constantly be preaching to be a good
01:12:40: Christian? Is showing my friends love and grace, not allowed to speak for itself sometimes?
01:12:47: Well, I'll, I'll, I'll start real quick. Um, the, so first off, uh, Paul said to, I mean, so that's simple.
01:12:53: Um, and I have already quoted that. Um, now, but I think for the rest of it, um, uh, we need a definition of terms.
01:13:01: Uh, uh, what, how does the Bible describe love? And is that what you're talking about? And how does the
01:13:06: Bible describe grace? And is that what you're talking about? Um, because often, um, if you're showing love and grace, um, you will end up proclaiming the truth.
01:13:18: But, uh, but this almost seems really similar to, you know, uh, that there's a quote that is, that is anti -gospel, which is, uh, always be, um, you know, uh,
01:13:28: I can't remember the exact, always be preaching the gospel and if necessary use words, uh, which is very similar to saying, you know, always, always feed the starving and if necessary use food, uh, well, you know, it's, it's proclamation.
01:13:39: So, um, it's, it's because the scripture says to, I mean, that's a simple answer. Well, to add a little bit to that,
01:13:46: I think some of these questions stem from a lack of balance.
01:13:51: Uh, there's, you know, Christianity is all about balance and it's very important to balance out the natural and the spiritual, you know, the physical, the spiritual, and there's wisdom with when and how you say things.
01:14:06: Um, of course we should always be salt and light to our, to our neighbors. We should always, uh, be kind and, and loving and caring and display
01:14:15: Christ -like, uh, behavior at all times, but, and, and there's wisdom, uh, as to when exactly we should preach the gospel.
01:14:24: We should wait for the opportunity to come to us when we're in certain situations, like at work, like you can't just rebuke your boss and send them to hell, uh, because he'll probably fire you.
01:14:33: I mean, you, there's wisdom with how and when you do things. And so there's a balance.
01:14:39: Of course, we, um, as a civilized nation, which America is rapidly, uh, not becoming that anymore.
01:14:48: It's, it's becoming more of a tyrannical communistic, uh, you know, uh, the antichrist society, but in a civilized nation, you have a, the definition of a civilized society is somebody who can come together, disagree, and iron out or discuss your disagreements respectfully.
01:15:09: And that is how you allow Christianity to, to propagate and to allow the truth to be worn out.
01:15:16: Um, we have the freedom, you know, the, the freedoms are very fast deteriorating in this nation, but, um, there's always a balance of course, you don't, you know, you have to keep a balance with everything.
01:15:28: And, and preaching the gospel is just one of those balances that you, there's a time and a place and there's a proper way to do it.
01:15:34: And that requires wisdom. Let me, uh, let me, let me take this. Um, so I kind of see a false dilemma here, um, because it's not an either or proposition.
01:15:44: You should do both. You should be able to show your friends love and grace, uh, and also constantly preach the gospel.
01:15:51: And so what I mean by constantly preach the gospel is like, you should be constantly preaching the gospel in some area of your life.
01:15:59: Like Carlos was saying, you know, use wisdom and discernment. If you, if you can't preach it to your boss, well, that doesn't mean that you just don't preach the gospel to somebody else, you know?
01:16:11: So you should, you should be constantly preaching the gospel. And I wouldn't say that that necessarily makes you a good
01:16:18: Christian. I don't know what this person means by, uh, you know, quote unquote, good
01:16:23: Christian, because, um, the goodness that we have is, is found in us because of Christ.
01:16:29: Christ imputed righteousness to us. But maybe, maybe I would say, uh, a faithful Christian.
01:16:37: Um, because if you're not preaching the gospel, I don't know if you're being faithful, uh, to, to Christ.
01:16:44: And I mean, if you think about it, like, just think about how absurd this question is. Think about like what
01:16:49: Christ actually did for you, you know, and you go to Romans, uh, 1 16, uh, for where it says, uh, you know,
01:16:57: I'm not ashamed of the gospel as a matter of fact, let me just go ahead and pull it up. But you think about what
01:17:03: Christ did for you. It's like, why would you not be shouting this from the mountains?
01:17:11: Why would you not be like telling everybody that you know about this? Because, you know, it's like, you know, okay.
01:17:19: So Romans, uh, 1 16 for, I'm not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes to the
01:17:27: Jew first and also to the Greek. Um, you know, I would want to know like,
01:17:32: Hey, why, why are you not sharing the gospel? And, and, you know, you're, you're using the, the, the, the words constantly like, okay, so when are you not sharing the gospel, um, with your friends?
01:17:47: Like, isn't, isn't, uh, the fact that you show them love and grace, uh, allowed to speak for itself? Well, if you haven't shared the gospel with them, no,
01:17:55: I would say it's not like you should probably share the gospel. And I would want to know, like, are you, are you not sharing it because you're ashamed and you're hiding behind a false piety of, of showing love and grace to your friends?
01:18:08: Because listen, you can show them love and grace all you want, but if they don't know and understand the gospel and they don't receive
01:18:15: Christ as their savior, then you are not showing them love. And you are not, uh, you know, they, they do not have grace, but they, they, if they're not saved, they're, they're children of wrath.
01:18:29: So that's, that's what I would say about that question. That's how I'd answer it. Uh, do you guys have anything to add to that before we move on?
01:18:35: Yeah, hopefully this is real quick. Um, so, um, the, uh, the, the way the question is asked is typically by somebody who doesn't share their faith.
01:18:44: Um, and they're looking for, for a way to attack somebody who says it's important to, um, the, the,
01:18:50: I've heard, I've heard this kind of question before. Um, and so that, that, that seems to be like, you know, um, you know, you, you say
01:18:57: I should be sharing the gospel. Well, can't I do these things? Um, but they, but they say, well, you know, constantly, um, as opposed to at all.
01:19:06: Um, but, um, but besides that, I guess, I guess, um, I'm, I wanna, I'm kind of curious.
01:19:12: So I, I don't, uh, I don't entirely agree with, uh, with Carlos in regards to, uh, uh, the type of balance, um, perhaps,
01:19:20: I mean, maybe, maybe we do, and we just describe it differently. Um, and with like the, the boss situation, if my boss and I get into a conversation about God, I'm gonna,
01:19:28: I'm gonna give him the full counsel of scripture. Um, I, I'm not, I'm not, I don't think that, uh, and I don't think this is what you're saying.
01:19:34: So, so don't, don't, don't, don't hear what I'm not saying. Um, the, uh, the amount that the consequences don't determine, um, whether or not
01:19:43: I will, I will share my faith, uh, in so much as I might lose my job, but that's a secondary to this person's salvation.
01:19:50: Um, the, I know, I know you believe that too. I'm not saying you don't. Um, the, the,
01:19:56: I, I can't, um, I can't put that, that kind of priority for it.
01:20:03: I would almost say that, um, I think, I think to, I think a lot of times people talk about balance and discernment and sharing their faith, um, that they would say that Paul, when he started a riot, sharing his faith, if we were to do that today, would be lacking balance and discernment.
01:20:20: Um, or, or Paul's up here, uh, appeal to Caesar so that he could share his faith there might've, you know, he might've been able to go about doing it a better way.
01:20:28: Um, I think that, uh, that we're not to be as concerned with the outcome as to being obedient in the moment. And so I think that there's a right way maybe to do that and a wrong way to do it.
01:20:37: But when, uh, when Paul said, preach the gospel in season and out of season, the word there, um, means, also means at the appointed time and not at the appointed time.
01:20:47: So when are you, should you be preaching the gospel when it's time to, and when it's not time to, and that's what
01:20:53: Paul saying, always be doing this. Um, and so I can't say that there's a wrong time to do it.
01:20:58: Um, uh, I think that, uh, that unless you're going to talk to casting his or which probably means you've already started on it.
01:21:07: You've already done it. Um, but, um, I don't see, um, this, um, this, uh, argument for balance and whether or not you share it, um, whether or not you share it at a time.
01:21:19: Uh, I don't see the argument for that in scripture. Um, and so, and so I, I'm, I guess
01:21:25: I'm just kind of rambling on at this point, but, but what are your, what are your thoughts on what I said? Uh, yeah,
01:21:31: I think, I mean, I still think it would require wisdom as to how it's approached. I mean, obviously if you strike up a conversation with your boss about spiritual things and that's a perfect opportunity, but you know, there's it,
01:21:44: I do think it requires wisdom because, um, and it just, jobs are different in the way things operating the job are, are also different.
01:21:54: Like you're not getting paid to preach the gospel to everybody you, you come across at work. I mean, it's, there, there's, you, it does require wisdom in how you do it because if you're working, that's what you should be doing.
01:22:05: And so if, if you're starting, if you're trying to proselytize everybody while you're on pay, on pay time, then that's, that's an issue.
01:22:14: That also affects your Christian witness because it makes you look bad, um, because you're supposed to be working and you're not, you know?
01:22:21: So it's, uh, I think it, it just requires a lot of wisdom in that sense. And also I think we do have to make a distinction between Paul's exhortation, uh, to Timothy to preach the gospel in season and out of season, because he's talking, he's referring to pastors.
01:22:34: He's referring to full -time ministers, in other words, or basically people who are doing, uh, Christian ministry in that sense.
01:22:40: And I'm not saying... I don't think there's a distinction in the passage though. I think that, I think that's for all Christians. I don't think that's especially for pastors and he's definitely not talking about a pulpit because most of the time when the apostles in Christ were preaching, there wasn't a pulpit.
01:22:52: So... Well, I think he was talking... Well, maybe I would disagree there because I think it's a pastoral epistle. That's what it's known as.
01:22:58: Did Paul say it was or is that, are we, are we going to agree that to the delineation that people have agreed to on it?
01:23:05: So... Well, he's talking to Timothy and he's giving qualifications for pastors, so I don't, I think it's fairly clear from the context, but, um...
01:23:12: So that's only for pastors? I think he's specifically applying that to pastors by way of implication.
01:23:18: Sure, we can apply that to lay people in some way, but I just think there's wisdom with how you do it.
01:23:25: There's no lay people in the New Testament. We're all the nation of priests. Lay people was a distinction from the priesthood. Yeah, but you have to make a distinction between pastors and non -pastors.
01:23:33: Not everybody's a pastor. Yeah. Right. That's what I'm saying. But... Not everybody's...
01:23:38: Does that passage only apply to pastors? And if it doesn't, we can't treat it that way.
01:23:45: If it does, then absolutely, only pastors are expected to preach the gospel and see this in and out of season. But that would probably go against what
01:23:52: Ezekiel 33 talks about, where if you see the sword coming and don't blow your horn, their blood's on your head.
01:23:59: But... So I can't... We're all the watchmen in that scenario. There's no pastor watchmen and non -pastor watchmen.
01:24:07: We're all expected to do that. So I think that we... I don't think we can make the explicit argument that he's only talking about pastors doing that, especially if you put it in the context of the rest of Scripture.
01:24:21: Yeah. I mean, I just think you have to apply it in a slightly different sense when it's...
01:24:27: Because I do think he's talking about specifically pastors. And the pastor should be equipping the church or the lay people to be able to be self -enlightened, to share their faith and their context.
01:24:40: I mean, everybody has a different context. Everybody does different things or whatever, and everybody needs to exercise a certain amount of wisdom and discernment when they are doing that.
01:24:50: Because when you do things the wrong way, it could also affect your Christian witness negatively, even if you're trying to share your faith.
01:24:57: So, I mean, that's what I'm saying. There's a time and a place for... I mean, we can...
01:25:03: That's also what Ezekiel says. There's a time for everything. There's a time and a place for things, and it requires wisdom, I think, to do it in a proper way.
01:25:12: Not to say that you should keep your mouth shut all the time, but I just... There's a right and a wrong way to do it.
01:25:19: Yeah. Well, I agree with that there's a right and a wrong way to do it. But what we're talking about is timing, whether or not you should do it in the first place.
01:25:27: And I think you should always do it if possible. I don't think there's a wrong person to do it with.
01:25:33: I agree that you shouldn't be spending all your time at work not working. So, absolutely.
01:25:40: I think that that would be horrible for the Christian witness. I agree with that. Okay. So you would also agree then that there's an improper time then?
01:25:51: Well, I think the opportunity is when you're talking about it. And I think you can create that opportunity whenever you want.
01:25:57: I don't think that there's some magical like... But specifically, if you are at work, and you need to be working, maybe having an hour -long conversation with somebody needs to be cut short because, hey, look,
01:26:13: I've got to get back to work. I've got a deadline. The bosses need me to finish this or whatever.
01:26:20: Okay, for instance, check this out. I am a firefighter and a paramedic. As soon as those tones go off, now is not the time for me to talk about this.
01:26:30: I've got to go put out that fire or I've got to go do CPR or go to the car accident or whatever it is.
01:26:40: Actual lives at risk. Well, yeah, in a temporal sense.
01:26:46: So I think, I'm listening to both of you guys and I'm kind of thinking that you guys are pretty much on the same page, but just not liking the way that the other person is saying it.
01:26:58: Joseph, you said that you don't agree that the Bible would talk about balances, like there's a person, like Carlos said, that we should be balanced.
01:27:12: And earlier you referenced the Westboro Baptist group.
01:27:23: They're not balanced. They're just not Christian. Well, okay. But even a Christian can be imbalanced and, hey, you know what?
01:27:34: I'm a noisy gong right now because I'm imbalanced and I'm not showing this person love.
01:27:41: And so I think that's what Carlos is driving at. I get what you're driving at. I kind of agree with both of you.
01:27:47: I think that you guys are pretty much on the same page, maybe just not agreeing with the way that the other person is saying it.
01:27:54: Yeah, and I could give a few examples because I think sometimes it just depends on the context with how you go about it.
01:28:03: And I work with, in my job, I tend to work a lot in the computer and I work, we use
01:28:11: Skype a lot. We chat a lot and we use
01:28:17: Skype a lot. I don't really interact with people in person that much when I'm working because my team is all over the country.
01:28:24: And so there was a situation where one of my technical leads who
01:28:31: I was working with, his wife passed away. And so people kind of said like, hey, he really wants some encouragement.
01:28:39: If you could send him your best wishes or whatever, your thoughts and your prayers or whatever. So I sent him an email and I said, oh,
01:28:45: I'm really sorry to hear about this. And I sent him some scripture. But I never really got the opportunity to really talk to him because it's a very busy, work gets very busy.
01:28:57: But after he left, he ended up retiring not too long after that.
01:29:04: And so what I ended up doing was actually sent him a book, a book about a
01:29:10: Christian view of death and dying. And I kind of made it personal, told him like, hey, this book really helped me when my wife died.
01:29:18: And I hope you're doing well, things like that. So I mean, I was able to do it.
01:29:24: I was trying to find the opportunity to do it. And I think that's how kind of the Lord led me to figure out a way to do things like that.
01:29:33: And so there's always opportunities wherever you are. There's always windows that you can take advantage of without getting into trouble or without looking bad or without staining your witness in the process.
01:29:45: And another example, of course, you know, this happens to a lot of people when they barely get converted.
01:29:50: They get so excited and on fire. It's like a cage stage. And you just start talking to everybody about it.
01:29:56: And then people start getting fed up with you because it got to a point where I was like basically telling my dad that he's going to hell and like nobody wanted to talk to me.
01:30:05: Like everybody was just getting fed up with me because I was just too out of hand. You know,
01:30:10: I needed to temper it and use some wisdom and some discernment with how I approach people and how, you know, finding a better opportunity of when and how to say things.
01:30:22: So just to the last point, just briefly. So the scripture talks about making enemies out of household.
01:30:27: So I don't think you're out of bounds there. And I think the warning that you're... I love my dad.
01:30:33: He knows that I am firmly hold to that he's going to hell if he doesn't repent and believe. And we still talk and we still communicate.
01:30:40: So maybe the how to go about doing it and whether or not you do it, like I said, you know, and we agree those are different things.
01:30:47: And I'm not going to, you know, I work at a place where I have permission from the owner that I can... and it was encouraged that, you know, hey, it's a good opportunity for evangelism, right?
01:30:55: So I basically have... I can't get in trouble for sharing my faith at work. That being said...
01:31:01: Yeah, that's great. I mean, that's great. You know, but even that being said, I don't spend all of my time doing that.
01:31:08: I am helping them improve a program for sorting stuff. And so I spend time working on that.
01:31:14: But if I have the chance to have a conversation with somebody while I'm doing that, I will do it. And if I don't have to do that,
01:31:20: I'm usually on the floor, starting conversations and having that as a couple of people at this point that I'm walking through the book of John, because of those conversations, which is really, really fun.
01:31:32: And in some ways encouraging. I would be just as happy to be Jeremiah as Peter.
01:31:41: So I'm not spending 100 % of my time doing that. I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is that a lot of people use what you're saying, and maybe this is why
01:31:51: I'm reacting to it the way that I am. A lot of people use what you're saying as an excuse not to do it, or as a way to satisfy their conscience when they don't.
01:32:03: And I don't want to give there. And so I don't think you're that, right?
01:32:09: But the arguments that you make for it, although they can be done right, are typically done for the wrong reasons.
01:32:17: And that might just be why I'm so sensitive to it. So I apologize if I came across the wrong way with it.
01:32:23: But it's something that I see so much and so little emphasis on the need to tell these people, to warn these people about the eternal consequences, and the placation of the conscience in that, well, you have to use wisdom and discernment, so it's okay if you don't.
01:32:42: And so that's the way I see it used. And so, again, I'm sorry if it came out. I don't think you took it the wrong way, but I want to make sure that I'm very clear that I wasn't.
01:32:50: No, yeah. There's no... Right. No, I know what you mean. There's no offense taken. I know. And this is a very important discussion to have.
01:32:57: It's important to make sure that we have a solid understanding of this biblically, because this affects everybody.
01:33:05: And I know what you mean. And I can sometimes fall into that trap myself, where I get a little bit too comfortable.
01:33:14: And I try to find opportunities. I'm always concerned about it.
01:33:21: I do try to find opportunities somehow to be able to minister to people at work when the opportunity presents itself.
01:33:28: And I try to... What's it called?
01:33:35: We do evangelism at our church every now and then, so I try to participate in those things as well.
01:33:42: And I think this also ties into the discussion about whether we should do the open -air preaching, open -air preaching versus just kind of doing a sort of lifestyle or friendship evangelism.
01:33:58: I think there's a time and place for both. And at one point, I started thinking that open -air preaching really wasn't...
01:34:06: It probably wasn't a good idea, especially when there's already been a church established.
01:34:12: Oh, yeah. I see where you're going with that. Yeah. And I know what you mean, and I commend you for that.
01:34:18: I commend you for having a very evangelistic fervor and spirit. I think that's very much needed in the church.
01:34:24: We have a brother who, Ryan Denton, he came to our church, and he's really blessed the church.
01:34:29: Let's talk with him on here at some point. Yeah. Hopefully, we'll have him on soon. Yeah, we do plan to have him on soon and talk about his ministry and what's going on with them.
01:34:38: But he's really blessed the church because he's encouraged evangelism and us to be more active in our faith and sharing our faith.
01:34:48: And I have done open -air preaching with them a few times already, so I think there's a time and a place for that too.
01:34:58: But I actually do think that it is more important in some sense to be able to be salt and light in the context that you're in and find good opportunities at work or wherever you are with your neighbor to share your faith or to be able to minister to them in some way.
01:35:15: That way, people will know. As long as people know that you are the Christian, they will know who to turn to when they have problems or where they have certain issues with their problems at home or whatever.
01:35:28: When you establish yourself as that salt and light, people will know who to turn to as well.
01:35:35: So it's a fine balance. There's a balance to it, I think. And going back to the whole thing about family, there does come a point,
01:35:44: I think, where it just comes off really badly. Like with the example
01:35:51: I gave with my dad and telling me he was going to hell, it got to a point where I was getting on everybody's nerves and it just looked bad.
01:35:57: You have to still be respectful and recognize, hey, you are my dad. And we came to an understanding and he knows what
01:36:04: I believe. My family knows what I believe. They know what I believe. They know where I stand. And I just try to be more careful when we enter into discussions that way, because I can get a little bit animated sometimes, especially when
01:36:19: I first got saved. I would get very animated and just kind of a bull in a china shop and just sort of not season my speech with grace or with salt or however it says in the
01:36:31: Bible. You lack temperance. Yeah, basically. Love is gentle and what it means is restrained, right?
01:36:42: Yeah. I agree. Yeah, okay. All right. Well, you guys have,
01:36:48: I think that we're taking enough time on this. So what I'm suggesting or what
01:36:54: I'd like to do is let's just go ahead and make this into a two -part series. We're a little bit more than halfway through some of the questions.
01:37:02: I'm very glad that Carlos is able to join us now. So we're going to do a little time lapse here and we're going to go ahead and record part two for this for the next week.