Acts 29 Recorded Phone Call - Terrible, Manipulative, Effeminate Leadership Exposed - Part 2

All right, everybody, welcome back to the channel. I had intended on talking about this yesterday because I had a great weekend. I hope you had a great weekend, too, by the way. Good Lord's Day, good everything.

I had a great weekend in general. Good Lord's Day, of course. You know, Lord's Day is almost always good. But then on Saturday, all my sons, actually, except for the brand new one, they all had Little League opening day.

There is nothing so pure and wholesome and just nostalgic and wonderful. Even the smells that you smell, the sounds that you hear, even the little cheers. I remember when I was a kid cheering for my friends.

You know, when they would be up to bat, we'd have different cheers, you know, and it was the same thing. Nothing has changed. It's just Little League is just, it's like stuck in the 50s. It's just amazing.

It was so much fun. My oldest son, this was his first year in like real Little League, like after T-Ball, you know, and he gets up to bat. I'll play the video at the end of this one. He gets up to bat and his very first at bat.

And the way they do it is the coaches pitch the first two innings and then the kids pitch the second two innings, the last two innings. And so he gets up to bat and his very first at bat, he gets an RBI.

He gets on base. He's so excited. And then he scores a run and it's just amazing. And then the second at bat versus a kid, again, he makes good contact, you know, he's not, you know, he's, he's still gaining his confidence.

So he's still learning how to swing harder and stuff like that. But to make contact on both at bats, especially one with a kid pitcher, he got thrown out and, you know, we're still working on attitude.

Of course, he got thrown out. He was very disappointed. And I, apparently my mom tells me that when I used to get thrown out, I would get very disappointed as well. So he's definitely my son. We're working on it though.

But just, just a wonderful thing. It's just, it's very satisfying as a father to see your child kind of grow and improve and things like that. A year ago, this kid was afraid of the ball. Like he was just scared of the ball, definitely afraid.

And this year he's up there and he's batting and he's doing well. He got plunked in the head, actually, in the helmet by a kid pitcher in practice the other day. And a year ago, he would have fallen apart.

This year, he shook it off right away and got right back in the batter's box. I mean, it's just, it was just, it's just so satisfying. Being a father is just so wonderful. I'll play the video of his first hit at the end of this one, but we are going to get right back into this.

Manipulative Leadership and the Acts 29 Call

This is so remarkable. You know, if you watched the video yesterday, obviously I had a lot of commentary based on my own experience and stuff like that. I've had at least three conversations that were just like the conversation that these two pastors had with Acts 29.

In fact, I've had a conversation with someone from Acts 29 before about this. It was like a low level guy, a regional kind of New England guy that was dispatched my way. And, you know, to be honest, I'm not exactly even sure why he was dispatched my way, but he was.

And we met and we had a conversation that was just like this conversation. I was never involved with Acts 29, but clearly I was having some kind of an impact on people that were involved in Acts 29. There'd be really no reason for him to be dispatched my way to try to get me to shut my mouth, which is what the call was about or the meeting was about.

He wanted me to shut up. And I think they do this. Like at the time I was very tame. I had very mild criticisms and stuff like that. I was very winsome and reasonable in my opinion, just like these two guys are.

They're reasonable. I think what they do is they try to make you feel like you're like an evil person when you're reasonable, but making critiques because they don't want you to turn into me. They don't want you to turn into what I turned into, someone that's actually, you know, got some oomph behind their criticisms.

And it works. This kind of thing, this kind of strategy to make you feel like you're some kind of evil sinner for daring to question them, to even question them. That's something that they do all the time.

So if you're involved in one of these big Eva groups or networks or ministries, you've got to be ready for this. This call will happen to you at some point if you don't toe the line. If you do toe the line, then there's really no hope for you.

You're just a sycophant. But if you don't toe the line, you're going to be on the receiving end of a phone call like this. And that's why this content is important because you need to be prepared for the kinds of manipulations that they're going to throw your way.

Because this call, these two guys here, Brandon and I think it's Brian is the other guy. This is a master class in how to manipulate people. They're manipulators. They're not leaders. They're manipulators.

All right, let's continue on that note.

I mean, I guess that's the way it works. Let me ask a pragmatic question just because, one...

Before we get into it, let me just say this. If you have the ability to get your hands on this flavor, Toasted Coconut by Polar Seltzer, this is hands down the best seltzer water I've ever had. It's like every time you drink it, you feel like you're on vacation.

It's just wonderful. A lot of coconut flavored seltzers, they taste like suntan lotion smells. This one doesn't really have that. I think the toasted part, it kind of smooths that out. It's really good,.

Really good. Next level. I'm really mad and I'm afraid to talk because I'm afraid I'm going to say something because right now I want to burn it down. That's where I'm at right now. Just so you know, I feel like this is wrong.

It's unfounded and it's just mean. And it sounds like he's not.

Kidding, man. It sounds like he's not kidding. You hear what that brother said? He said that he's almost afraid to talk because he doesn't want to say something that he will regret because right now he feels like he wants to burn it down.

And let me say this, Axe 29 needs to be burned to the ground. Metaphorically speaking, of course. Axe 29, the little club that they've got together, you know, they're all vibing. Oh yeah, you know, this thing is irrelevant to the operations of the church.

It's really just a thing that you send money to so that the leadership can stroke their own freaking egos. They don't let you see the bylaws. They don't want you to know how they operate. They want to operate in secrecy.

You ask, you want to know where the money's going? Get in line, shut your mouth. That's what they think. You want to know how we operate? You want to know what you want to see? You want to read the bylaws?

Like you don't even need to be in leadership. You just want to read the bylaws, get out of here and get back in line. That's how they operate. This is the kind of thing that was allegedly Mark Driscoll's huge sin that they had to get rid of him for.

It's this kind of thing. This is the thing. And you know, it's just like he's, this guy's obviously emotional right now. He's angry and he should be because this is ridiculous. Now, of course, he's never seen the bylaws.

So I guess he doesn't, I mean, at least as far as I know, they can operate this way if they just want to kick you out because they don't like your face, they can kick you out. But is this how Christians behave?

No, this is not how Christians behave. This is not how it's supposed to be. You could, you should at least tell them something. Remember, there's no evidence at this point. None. There's no evidence that they've got this pattern of whatever it was.

I'll get my notes in a second. Constant public criticism and all that. And then they asked for evidence. He's like, no, no, no, we're not there. We're not there. We don't got no evidence. He's mad. He's furious.

He thinks this is not right. And it isn't right.

And you guys have to live with that. Not me. But I've got men in my cohort that I love and I've invested a lot of time into. So pragmatically, am I on the hook just to pay for this upcoming trip.

I have in two weeks? No, not at all. Not at all. And Matt, I totally understand why you feel the.

Way you do. I mean, I don't think you do. I don't think you do. That's fine. You can say that.

Matt, perhaps I don't. Perhaps I don't. Yeah, you don't. You absolutely do not understand. Because if you did understand, you would have been ready with evidence. You would have been ready with an example.

And again, nobody's saying you need to show me an example of the pattern, you know, the constant nature of the criticism. Just show me one. It's constant. So it should be quite easy to find one. Just show me one.

And you can't. So you don't understand. This is a power play for you. He said, oh, well, look, you know, you're not on the hook for that money. Oh, well, thank you. Thank you, my lord. I'm not on the hook for the money.

You're very generous. You are a kind master. You're a kind master.

I don't mean to. Yeah. Yeah, I don't. I don't. But let me say this. Let me say this if I may. No, you're not on the hook for that financially. And I'm sure you can have a conversation with Justin Anderson as to how, like what next, what happens next practically with that cohort.

I'm sure you can have that conversation with him. Okay. You know, you know, and the fact you want to burn things down, I get that. That's between you and the Lord. What do you do with that?

Not only should Acts 29 be burned metaphorically to the ground, but these people need to be exposed for what they are and how they operate. These people operate like pagan women, not even godly women, like pagan women.

That's how they operate. And they operate. And again, like, like, this is not like a an isolated incident. It's not just like two losers that are just operating like losers. No, this is standard fair Big Eva operations.

Your favorite Big Eva institution operates this way, most likely. Big Eva needs to be destroyed. Acts 29 needs to be destroyed. It needs to become an ash heap, a stench. That's what it needs to become.

Does that mean that if your church is involved with Acts 29 that they're evil? No, it does not mean that. It does not mean that. What it does mean, though, is that Acts 29 is more a force for evil than it is for good.

Acts 29 is more a force for evil than it is for good. I don't care about your missional orientation if you treat your brothers and sisters in the Lord like this. I don't care if your theology is pretty good if you treat your brothers and sisters in the Lord like this.

All of the theology in the world, all of the teaching, all of the missional mindsets accounts for nothing if you don't have the basic, like, the baseline love to treat your brothers with any kind of semblance of Christianity.

You've demonstrated that you do not here. I encourage you to listen to this entire podcast because these two guys explain some of the context here and some of the reasons why they were so surprised by this because, like, one day everything's fine, like, you know, we understand there's tension, but we love you, we're in the network, we don't have to agree on things, and then literally the next day they get this phone call.

He's like, uh, yeah, you know, it's like a.

Pattern of, you know, uh, yeah. When was this decision made? This decision was, it's been in process for a little while, a couple of weeks, but it was, our senior leaders met in Los Angeles two weeks ago and had the conversation.

Our board met last week and finalized the decision,.

Approved the decision. And just to be, like, so if I were to communicate to the cohort I'm in, I'm not coming because Acts 29 kicked us out. And they go, why? What happened? What do you want me.

To tell them? So these guys are, like, asking every which way they can think of, like, like, can you give me some detail? You've given me nothing. You've given me absolutely nothing. And they're asking every which way they can think of how this happens.

And I hope you caught what was just asked, too, and asked and answered. When was this decision made? Well, this decision has been in process for a couple of weeks, he said, and we finalized the decision, you know, whenever he said, like yesterday or whatever.

At no point in this decision making process did they reach out to them and say, hey, you know, we're concerned with your tone, we're concerned with this, and we're just not sure we can continue in the network.

If you continue this, what say you? And then these guys could have been like, yeah, you know, we value being in the network more than criticizing you, you know, in private calls, so we're going to stop.

Or, you know, we value the network more than we value our ability to be online. Or they could say, okay, well, we'll just, that's okay, we could have a nice friendly partnering of ways. I don't think it makes sense for us to continue in a network where any kind of disagreement is viewed as tension and a pattern of combative behavior.

That's the line, a combative behavior pattern. And like, we're not, we don't want to be in that network. And then it could have been like a respectful, that could have truly been a Paul and Barnabas moment.

That's what a Paul and Barnabas moment is. You talk it out, you say philosophically, this is not worth it for me to continue. And you say, you know what, I agree, it's not worth it for us to continue.

Let's part ways. That's an actual Paul and Barnabas moment. This loser over here, because he's a slimy manipulator, he says, oh, it's a Paul and Barnabas moment. Meanwhile, they haven't told you even once that there's a potential for this split.

They've just been talking about it amongst themselves, like a bunch of girls, pagan girls at the cafeteria table in high school. That's what X -29 is. It's the in crowd at the cafeteria, and they're all wearing their little dresses.

And they all talk like women, and they all manipulate the way a pagan woman would manipulate. You know what you did. Everyone in the comments section instantly recognized that. When you're arguing with a woman who's kind of in her emotional state, she won't tell you what you did.

You know what you did. And the fact that you might not know,.

That's actually further proof that you're guilty. Tell them what you like, but what I wrote down.

With my lawyer is the pattern of, you know, it reminds me, you remember in the office where Jan and Michael go to that deposition? And, you know, on the way there, you know, Michael is practicing the what to say.

Like Jan gave him the statement. It's like a pattern of disrespectful behavior. It's like, you know, that kind of thing. And then when they get to the deposition, he says it exactly the same way. And the lawyer says, well put.

The lawyer wrote that statement. It's the same thing here. You tell them whatever you want, but tell them that what we said is the pattern of combative, disrespectful behavior. And it's just like, man, like you can't even do me the courtesy of telling me in your own freaking words, you had to write it down in verbiage.

And it's probably very carefully selected verbiage. Let's just be honest about that. It's just so weaselly and slimy and it's just not how you treat brothers. It's not. There's nothing more disrespectful when you're talking to someone who's allegedly your brother, who's allegedly your friend, and he lawyers you to death.

It's just so disrespectful. So did you catch that? He added something. He added something. So we've got more window into this. The way you've communicated theological things, both inside and outside Acts 29.

So now not only is it a regular public critique and an overall posture of it, not only is it the tension that just exists, you know, kind of the ambiguous tension and the private conversations that have been had, not only is it subtle critiques of Acts 29, whatever the freaking world that means, not only is it a pattern of combative behavior, but now it's also the way that you present theological things, both inside and outside Acts 29.

And so, you know, now we're, 20 minutes into the call. We're starting to get a picture of this. This is basically, this is what it boils down to. We're sick of your faces. We're sick of what you do. And now you're out.

That's it. And we're not going to give you any evidence. We're not going to give you any examples because if we did give you examples, it would be way too easy to find people that we aren't sick of that do the same things that you do, but we want to keep them in the club.

That's why there's no examples coming, because it'd be all too easy to say, oh, Matt Chandler does that. And it will, they want to keep Matt Chandler in the club. We're not sick of him. We're sick of you.

Pattern of combative and critical. Okay.

Hey, Chase, you tell me what you want. I wouldn't, please don't feel like I'm imposing upon you what you need to say. I appreciate the question.

Right. I trust you to say what you want. You're such a nice guy. Please don't feel like I'm imposing on you. You're very generous. He's a kind master. Generous master.

No, I know. We have a responsibility as pastors to represent things as truthfully as possible. And I'm failing to be able to find words. And I'm going to trust the Holy Spirit to give me words,.

Which wouldn't impugn your network. You know, one of the, one of these guys didn't know that this recording was even happening. The other one did, the other one didn't. And again, God bless you two brothers, man.

You're acting like men, because I would imagine, and this is just, I don't know this. I didn't talk to these guys. I would imagine that nothing would feel better than to just let these two have it, hang up the call and move on.

But what they're thinking of, instead of thinking of feeding their flesh, which would be all too easy to do, they're actually thinking about their responsibility before other people. And they're like, and they're just, they're just at a loss because they haven't been given anything concrete.

And so they want to go back. And he, you could tell he's probably writing it down, a pattern of combative behavior. He's probably writing it down because he wants to get it right, because he wants to present the situation to his church and to the people that he's accountable to, the way he was told, because he can't put it into his own words because he hasn't been given anything besides the lawyer speak that this guy has presented him and the fake crocodile tears from the black guy.

I love you, bro. I ain't got.

No evidence, but I love you. I believe it. I ain't come to you where I don't believe it.

So instead of feeding his flesh, instead of, you know, flying off the handle, you know, what he does instead is he's like, okay, so can you tell me again so that I can write this down, so that I could tell them what you said?

And this guy, like, he almost hesitates to tell him again, because I think he knows he's writing it down now. And he wants to make sure that he's got the right exact thing. So he's probably flipping through his, you know, his note from his lawyer to, what do I say again?

I can't put it into my own words. Like it's a pattern of,.

You know, it's just, it's the Michael Scott thing. Because at this point you've given me no evidence other than that, if you don't like the posture we're taking, that's a legitimate thing. I don't like the posture you guys take, not you personally, the network.

We get it. We get it. So like that's.

That is legitimate. And again, like, I have a feeling, and you know, these guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I have a feeling if they just say, yeah, I just don't like getting operate. Sick of you.

Sick of your posture. And just not a fit for the external network. And so you're kicked out. I feel like they would have still been mad, but at least they could understand. At least it would make somewhat sense to them.

That's fine. But like, I've never viewed that.

As a reason. That's why we haven't broken fellowship. Like, we're trying to walk the high road here. We're trying to be as faithful as we can with the money we've invested, the relationships we've built.

And then unilaterally, in some meeting of people that we don't know, somebody doesn't like either me personally or Matt personally, somebody's suspicion is reached a threshold where it's irrecoverable and irreconcilable between brothers.

It was never brought to my attention or Matt's attention before this meeting was never brought.

To my attention. But unilaterally, we get summoned. Okay, let me stop there. You could,.

Again, you can kind of hear him lay it all out here. And this reminds me of something that I said, too. It's like, you know, I never consider, he goes, I don't like your posture. You don't like my posture.

I can understand that. You don't want to be in my, you don't want me to be in your club anymore because you don't like my posture. I can understand that. I don't like your posture. But the difference is, I never thought that that difference in posture was a big deal.

I never thought it was something we need to part ways. We need to break fellowship about. And as far as I'm concerned, this is what he says, as far as I'm concerned, you never thought that either because we talked about this before, but you've never brought any problems to my attention.

This is news to me that this was even being talked about, even being discussed. It's like, sure, I knew that there were some tension, but I never, no one ever told me that it was a problem. You know what I mean?

No one ever told me that this was an issue because this is completely new to me. And, and, and again, these guys are the adults in the room because they, they didn't bring that, like they, they never broke fellowship with these guys over this.

And it wasn't a big enough deal for them to even bring it to them. And these guys, this whole time had been harboring this like secret animosity and it's just been under the surface. And they've been smiling in their faces while boiling on the inside about their posture as, as, as, as effeminate as that sounds.

That's really what's going on here. And, and, and now they're just kicking him out with no, no, not a word, not anything, not no conversation. I remember myself saying like, look, you don't agree with me on social justice.

That's fine. I don't agree with you on social justice either. I think we can still be friends. Like why do we have to part ways now? Like, like, like even my co-elders, like, okay, you don't agree with some of the stuff that I do.

But, and, and so that's very clear. You think that, but I can still work with you. Why can't you work with me? There's no answer coming to that. There's no answer, obviously. But that's what he said here.

He's kind of laid it all out here. And again, these two are the adults in the room. These guys.

Are acting like children, female children. There's been conversations in meetings. Um, Dave and Donnie have had conversations. There's been conversations about seeking to understand, but I want, but I'm hearing you.

I'm hearing you guys say you're upset and frustrated. Well, there's a lot of people that are frustrated as well with the combative public critique of the.

You keep saying public, but it's not public. This is the, see, this is the thing. This is the thing about this. This guy's over here. He's back on his talking point, obviously. And this guy called him out on the talking points, not public.

What are you talking about? And he said, you guys are obviously upset and frustrated. That's very clear on this call. They're upset and frustrated. And then he goes, but there's a lot of people, y 'all, they'd be people behind the scenes.

Yup. And they'd be frustrated too, dog. And it's like, Oh, okay. Okay. I'm sure. I'm sure there are BC. The difference is we're frustrated and we're telling you to your face. We're frustrated. You guys have been frustrated behind the scenes for nobody knows how long, because nobody said anything about it.

That's the difference. Again, this guy's not the sharpest tool in the shed. So he reveals too much here. He reveals too much. This has been an ongoing thing, according to this guy and people have been frustrated behind the scenes, but nobody had the courage.

Nobody had the love. Nobody had the audacity or the balls to tell them about it. These guys are frustrated. And they told you, you guys have been frustrated for how long talking behind their backs about all their combative public behavior.

And nobody said word one to them about it. What's that about?

What's that about? Right? I mean, like your social media stuff is what, when I say public, that's what I'm talking about. The open critique constantly of the network, but that's not there.

You don't have any receipts of that because it's not there. I'm concerned about the open.

Public critique constantly. That's what he said. Constantly. Again, he's a little bit off talking point now, but he's, he's still saying he's harping on the same thing. And this guy directly challenges him.

I know you've said that, but it's not there. And that's why you can't show me any receipts. Now, what is the obvious thing to do here? The obvious thing to do is to have receipts number one, but, but he's directly challenging the truthfulness of your statement.

He's saying, you are lying. You say it's there. It's not there. If it was there, here's what you should do. You know, Chase, I will get you the receipts. I will show you what I'm talking about. I will show it to you because I love you and I care about you.

Give me a few days, give me a week, give me whatever time you need. I will show it to you. That way you will know what I'm talking about. We might not agree, but at least you'll know that I'm not lying.

That's not what's going to happen though. Obviously.

Okay. No, I'm serious. I'm like, that's what I'm like. I'm happy to concede that point. If you, if it were there and I'm, I'm racking my conscience in my memory to try to go through what I've done and what I've said, and these are the consequences of my actions, I suppose.

I'm just, I'm really baffled by the public critique part of it.

It's just like, so instead of saying, you know, I'll, I'll get them for you, you know, and maybe we just disagree on what's a critique. Maybe we disagree on what's the word public. I mean, after all, what depends on what the definition of is, is instead of that, it goes, okay, he's beaten.

He knows he's beaten. He knows he's got nothing because he knows the minute he shows him what he's talking about. It's going to be so petty. It's going to be so petty and so easy to show when Matt Chandler did the same thing, or maybe even he himself did the same thing.

It's going to be too easy to do that. He can't show him receipts because then he could be held to account. You see, that's the point of this. This is a rebuke that you can't be held to account about. This is something that Big Eva does all the time.

This is why Big Eva never names names. You notice that they'll, they'll put out their critique, but they rarely named names. But you know who it's about, but they don't name him because they don't want to be held to account.

It's impossible to tell if they're bearing false witness. If they don't give you the specific example. See, when I tell you Russell Moore is a slimy little lying snake, or that Brandon here is a slimy little snake, or that this guy's lying, I'll tell you their name.

So you can go check the receipts on it. You can go check and see, make sure that A .D. is telling the right thing. That's the, that's the difference between an adult and a child.

Patch 29 doesn't like being questioned or critiqued in private conversations. Well, and y 'all decided to kick us out because of that.

Well, I hope I've communicated that your questions don't equal critique and your questions can be valid. Everything you ask is not that, of course not.

Yes. Again, this guy's not the sharpest tool in the shed. He's off message here because he was just provided an opportunity to take that and run with it and say, yeah, well, you know, yeah, you know, it is a critique.

You know, we're sick of it. We're sick of it. That's the tension I'm talking about y 'all. No, but instead he goes, no, no, that's not what it is. So he's told you what it told you, what it isn't. He hasn't told you what it is though.

He's told you what it isn't,.

But he hasn't told you what it is. You guys aren't evil. Right. Nobody's calling evil here. However, this is a, this is a Mark, John Mark moment. I don't see us going together any further in Newark. Does actually not in terms of leadership.

And from the posture and this guy, I mean, he can't put a sentence together. Who is this guy? He sounds like he has a 30 IQ. He can't put a sentence together. That is what he just said. Makes no sense.

My understanding is it's emotional. And I get that when you're emotional, it's hard to put sentences together. But the thing is like these guys were pre-prepared. That was part of the reason why they gave this surprise meeting because when you're given a surprise meeting, you have the advantage of preparing ahead of time, what you're going to say and what you want to get across.

And these guys just have to shoot from the hip. And that's, it's a tactical advantage. That's why they did that because they're slimy. But these guys are putting coherent sentences together. Yeah, sure.

They're stumbling over their words a little bit, but that's, that's how it is. This, this guy has prepared for this conversation and he sounds like an idiot because he like in terms of leadership, you know, um, yeah, like it's, it's a John Paul moment, John Mark, John Mark Paul moment.

And like,.

This is just, it's not, we're not saying you're evil, but like criticisms and things that you say aren't public criticisms, but I would collectively say, oh, oh, oh, from social media to anything, but don't hear an evil call.

Don't hear some, you guys are demonic call. What is this guy talking about? And this is, it, it doesn't, we don't, we're no, we're not compatible with, in terms of how you guys have criticized and said those things.

But you're not, but there's no specific, there's like, that's what's baffling. It's like, let's say, let's use the word missional. That's a big word that Action 29 uses and we use. And I've obviously been, we've been trying to figure out how to do missional better.

So I started a podcast to try to talk with people about how to think more clearly about missional. Ask questions. Hey, is this what missional means? I critiqued Russell Moore and Dave French publicly.

I do that. They're not part of the network. So, you know, like, I just, I didn't, I, my efforts to try to gain clarity and articulate a vision for the church has led to somebody not liking what I say.

I mean, Dave, it was, whether, whether you were right or wrong when he messaged me, it revealed a lot. It revealed a heck of a lot. When I'm getting a message on Facebook at midnight from a VP of a global network, because I critique Russell Moore, who's not a pastor in our network.

He's just a thought leader. And, and the fact that you took that so personally, that, that told me a lot.

And I found it really disappointing because I, I remember feeling this exact same way. I was completely baffled. That's a great word. When Jared C. Wilson took personal offense to my criticism of Russell Moore.

And again, at the time, my criticism of Russell Moore was tame. And I was very clear to me that, that, that he took personal offense to my criticism of Russell Moore. And I asked him, I said, I don't get this.

Like, I understand he's your friend, but I thought we were friends too. And so I don't agree with him. And, and you take it like, like, like as if I attacked your daughter or something like, like your dog or like your, your wife, like, I didn't do anything to you.

I didn't even criticize you. There was lots of things to criticize about Jared C. Wilson, but I was of the opinion that he was a friend, not an enemy. So I didn't critique him. But I critique Russell Moore and you, and you, you jump out of bed to like, like, like just reprimand me.

And I was so baffled by that. It made no sense, but it was very revealing. It was very revealing on where I really stood with, with Jared Wilson. I stood, I was his friend so long as I didn't, you know, compromise or disagree with some of the things he believed.

I mean, that's just that, that it was just that simple. I remember feeling this way, man. Like this was, this is exactly how I feel. I felt. And he's bringing that up because he thinks that that's really what this is about.