August 6, 2013

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 973 4602 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic here is James White.

Cultural Pressure to Redefine Marriage and Force Christian Compliance

And welcome to the dividing line on a Tuesday morning and If you've got a Quran anyone anywhere near you you might want to grab it today. I've got some interesting things to share with you a little bit later on.

Do a little Quran study. Some of you might have one if you don't there it's very easy to get hold of them online if you have access to like Quran browser calm. There's the Corpus Chronicum project is online too.

So just look up Corpus Chronicum and It's a very very useful website. Use it all the time. So you might want to grab those things but first and foremost just wanted to Note in passing before we completely change gears and subjects.

What we've all said would be the result of these things Dr. Moeller was mentioning this morning. My mornings have gone back to normal and and fulfilled and happy now because it's August and the briefing is back, so if July is just just I don't know.

I just lose touch with reality because Dr. Mueller's the briefing isn't around so he was mentioning this morning some of the immediate impact as Justice Scalia predicted of the Supreme Court decisions the radical nature of the Supreme Court and the decisions that it's making and redefinition of marriage and so on and so forth.

He was making note of it and Certainly one example of that outside the United States. I had seen on August 1st, and I've seen a couple versions of this story and This one from The 1st of August says wealthy gay dad Barry drew it.

Barlow Says he and his civil partner Tony will go to court to force churches to host gay weddings. He told the Essex Chronicle that he will take legal action because listen to this folks quote now, I'm gonna I'm gonna read this in.

The voice that we should hear it in not of. You know, you know you have to provide voices when you're reading stuff, right? But this is this is the voice that we should have it in. He told the Essex Chronicle that he will take legal action because quote I am still not getting what I want and quote a a government bill legalizing gay marriage passed Parliament recently, but and I hope probably now be banned from England forever.

A government bill legalizing gay marriage passed Parliament recently. But it included measures to protect churches from being forced to perform same-sex weddings. Mr. Drew it Barlow said. The only way forward for us now is to make a challenge in the courts against the church.

Listen this it is a shame that we are forced to take Christians into a court. To get them to to get them to recognize us and quote. Wow, I mean Does he even realize how obvious that is. We're gonna make the secular courts force you To recognize us.

To celebrate us. We are going to force you to compromise. You're gonna have to deny What your Bible says what your history says what God's law says. Will force you to do it. Will force you to do it. Farm 12 -8.

The wicked strut about when that which is vile was honored amongst men. Listen to it listen to it he added quote it obsessed me because I want it so much. A Big lavish ceremony the whole works. I just don't think it's gonna happen straight away.

This is as much as people are saying. This is a good thing. I am still not getting what I want end quote. I remember hearing those words when my kids were like three four years old. But here you have an adult man a very rich adult man and yet the self-centeredness of The attitude the immaturity the childishness of it.

Shocking. Absolutely shocking. I'm gonna force you to say I'm a good person. Exactly what's going on? It's exactly what's going on. It's amazing. Absolutely amazing. The gay couple shot to fame in 1999 when they became the first British same-sex couple to be named on their children's birth certificates, okay.

Which one labored and had the child is what I want. Hmm, which one? Neither of them obviously. They entered a civil partnership in 2006 and Barry drew it Barlow as report they donated around 500 ,000 pounds.

It's a lot of money. Two groups lobbying for same-sex marriage. Last year the Church of England warned that the government's plans to redefine marriage. Could trigger legal problems and end the 500-year link between church and state.

Well for the Church of England. I'm not really sure that would be all that bad of a thing to be perfectly honest with you. That church state thing has not been going real well. For the Church of England as far as remaining Christian or anything like like that, so it might be Time in January this year a leading lawyer Cautioned that the plans left the Church of England opened a legal challenge.

The Prime Minister was sent a copy of legal opinion by Lord Kerry a former Archbishop of Canterbury in June 2012. Crispin blunt MP Who was then a justice minister minister admitted that the government's plans could lead to legal issues.

He said the government is seeking to protect indeed prescribe religious organizations from offering gay marriage, but he continued that may be problematic legally. Yeah, you think. But I Again, we're gonna we're gonna force you we are gonna make you say we're good.

Can you hear it? Can you see it? Oh My my my my my. Looking at Isaiah 5 a whole lot more these days. Woe to those who call good evil and evil good. It's right there in front of us.

I I can hear people listening to you right now saying that but that'll never happen here.

Oh, yeah, right. And because really is anyone really still that naive you know the Constitution won't allow it. But yeah the Constitution that piece of paper. It has to be interpreted by those nine people who have no connection anymore to reality.

Well.

Here's a question for him to think about in the United States when a pastor marries someone at the end of the ceremony He says by the power vested in me by who? By the state that he's. Oh wait a minute.

There's a licensing factor here. When the state comes along and says oh, you know what we're gonna yank your license and when we yank your license guess what? You don't get anymore you you don't get any of the benefits the tax deductions and all the other things that go along with being a.

Licensed minister we all know that's all disappearing very quickly anyways, and they're gonna go after that stuff. We're gonna have to we're gonna have to be. Taking trips overseas and visiting other countries to find out how they've been doing this all along in anti-christian Societies so we can learn some lessons because the.

The days the day is is right around the corner. Just real quickly I saw this one as well. I'll throw it in here since we are doing a jumbo edition today. In one of the feeds I follow is uncommon descent calm.

It's basically intelligent design discussion and things like that and. Here is a August 5th, so yesterday this was posted. Mark Armitage possibly the latest victim of the Darwinist Inquisition. What happens when you publish a peer-reviewed paper?

That states inconvenient facts against Darwinism. Better yet photos that cast doubt on prevailing paradigms. You get fired at least as what a researcher is alleging. We are very quote. We are very saddened and disturbed to report that Mark Armitage was fired from his position at California State University.

Just days after his paper was published online. They the. Interestingly enough, what was his paper about. Was it I think Moses wrote Genesis, and we should force our children to read Genesis and not it's not what he said.

Instead he's in the Department of Biology Calvary State University. Of course you're in California. It is a I Don't know how should we put it socialist dictatorship anyways? When I was over there, I even said when I was speaking in Southern, California.

Less than two weeks ago. I said, I'm at least thankful that we're a long ways away from Sacramento. So the madness does not infect us here but but. The abstract of his his paper was quite interesting.

Soft fibrillar bone tissues were obtained from a supraorbital horn of triceratops horridus. Collected at the Hell Creek Formation, Montana, USA. Soft material was present in pre and post decalcified bone.

Horn material yielded numerous small sheets of lamellar bone matrix. This matrix possessed visible microstructures consistent with lamellar bone Osteocytes. Some sheets of soft tissue had multiple layers of intact tissues with osteocyte like structures featuring filipodial like interconnections and secondary branching both oblate and stellate types of Osteocyte like cells were present in sheets of soft tissues and exhibited organelle like microstructures.

SEM analysis yielded osteocyte like cells featuring featuring filipodial extensions of 18 to 20 Millimeters in length micrometers. I'm sorry micrometers in length. Filipodial extensions were delicate and showed no evidence of any pre mineralization or crystallization artifact and therefore were interpreted to be soft.

This is the first report of sheets of soft tissues from triceratops horn bearing layers of Osteocytes and extends the range and type of dinosaur specimens known to contain non fossilized material in bone matrix.

Well, that sounds just that's gonna overthrow the entire It's gonna overthrow the entire scientific community you get fired. Well now, of course they point out maybe this isn't why he was fired, but it just happened to have happened right after this and anyone who has seen ah Certain certain films like expelled might have an idea and it's all it's all for the same reason that's it's so that people can say well all scholars say that you people are wrong and Anyways, I thought I would mention that in in passing.

Um, I Just look over in channel Carla came in. Do we remember Carla? I It's very difficult for me, I think I think she's from Canada. But that's about all I remember is I think I think that Carla is from Canada.

That's about all I know and then unfortunately mutato is is Crying or something. I'm not really sure what's what's wrong with that. Yeah, he weeps great tears. Oh I see someone went through Bismarck and did not stop to see him.

So I would like to I would like to get to meet Milo Hudson Bueller aka mutato someday. But he's starting to make it he's starting to make it sound like I'm trying to avoid him and I'm just like well You know if if a church You would invite me up.

I'd be happy to come really and I'm not difficult to you know okay, my Culinary tastes are somewhat limited. We'll probably end up at Olive Garden or Denny's or something, you know, nothing really fancy but You know, it's not my fault that there's nobody anywhere Near you Tato that seems to like me other than him.

He's the only person up there that likes me. So if we could find somebody up there that would you know, invite me up there? I'd be I'd be happy to to do so anyhow as I mentioned You might want to have your your Quran out Again I hope You know, I got a very very encouraging note really encouraging, you know, I wish I had it in front of me.

From Nick in the Ukraine, I'm gonna be seeing Nick again in February Lord willing I told you all about Nick when I was teaching in Berlin. I was gonna start today's program in German and then fake Realizing that I was speaking the wrong language, but I forgot when I got started cuz I was busy doing something else so I apologize, but When when I was in Berlin, we had a group of Ukrainian students and I had no idea that Nick was gonna do this.

No idea I just got their papers Nick had to translate their papers. So he I mean he's translate. So he was the guy that I'm sitting there and I'm teaching on textual criticism. That is not that's that's about as easy a Range of vocabulary to translate as the abstract of the biology paper.

I just read to you. Okay a lot of technical terms and He's in another room. He's off to the right there. It's a it's a room has a window so he can see in and I'm wearing a microphone so he can hear me I can sort of just barely You know just sort of hear his voice a little bit and then the Ukrainian students are wearing these headsets that they have to keep A sort of pointed toward this infrared transmitter type thing.

And everyone's well, they'd have to stop and change the batteries and stuff like that. It's a neat setup. And what it allows for is live translation. Instead of stop start stop start. It would have been impossible to to do live that kind of live translation stop start stop start just For all day long on a subject like that I would have I would have been brain-dead after two days, but anyway, so I was just incredibly impressed this young man For him to be able to be listening to me and then live translating it like they have at the UN, you know in such a technical area and Then find out Translates their papers and sends me these papers and I'm like wow.

Well Nick Nick wrote to me when he sent the papers and he said he's been listening to the dividing line ever since I was over there and that he really found my continued review of The Calvinist Colin show with Michael Brown to be extremely useful.

Because that's a big discussion over there. So I think because Nick said that I think what I need to do is I think I have it. I'm gonna have to look for it I think I have it on my on my Mac at home. I'm just gonna have to get that Video that has been making the rounds from Jerry.

He's the Armenian guy why I'm not a Calvinist that video has been sent to me but half a dozen times. And I just I just haven't bothered with it because it's just not a lot overly exciting but since it's really popular out there I'm just gonna have to we're gonna have to do some radio free Geneva's here and and respond to that and and do some more Of that because Nick said it was helpful.

So if Nick said it was helpful. We'll do some more. Looking forward to seeing all those guys again in in February in in Kiev. Wow, even even LaShawn Barber showed up in channel today. That's that's amazing.

But Carla fell asleep. That's interesting. Watching things and channels are strange. Anyways, what I was telling you what I started to tell you was I'm reading through the Quran again. I've lost track of how many times this would be but given that it's Something that is just it's part of my job I mean literally it's part of my job to have familiarity with this text and therefore constant exposure to it and stuff and Yesterday morning I was doing a 64 mile ride and Recently, it's not been all that hot here in Phoenix.

I mean the high days be like 94. Which is really unusual for us in August. I mean, it's raining right now. Well, some of you would not call this rain. I think if you lived in Seattle you would go. No.

No, that's that's no. Is there is it collecting anywhere? Is there water rain the streets? No. Okay, that's not rain. That's just a moist sky. Basically, but yeah, yeah, right well here in Phoenix what we call You know an inch of rain.

It means there's an inch between the drops. That's how we measure rain. We got an inch of rain. There is only an inch between the drops. As I'm looking outside right now, there is a small puddle forming Over out there in the in the parking lot.

There is a small puddle now there's still dry spots on the on the on the sidewalk, but there there is a Small puddle forming where the stuff's coming off the roof. No, that's not the sprinkler. No. No, this is what's coming off the roof.

This is there actually is a small puddle there. So that's that's better than nothing the little the little Starving plants are their little mouths are up toward heaven more more. Anyway, I'm wondering about a little bit here.

Mm-hmm. So I was out before dawn Yesterday morning and actually I was I was over halfway through I was on my my way back so I was descending and hence, the speeds are going up and you're starting to feel better at at 24 miles per hour than you were at 17 and.

But I'm listening and I am listening very carefully and I caught something. I I caught something and I made a strong mental note. Because sometimes I make mental notes and the sweat washes. Before I get back actually even carry I haven't bought a little teeny-tiny super light.

Well, it could actually even have on it the German most of the German Bible, but I can record stuff on it and every once in a while I will Stop and I will record something for myself so I can remember.

Okay, you need to look this up back up, whatever. Oh great the fake Dawkins on Twitter says I guess he wants me to jump into the whole brouhaha about the strange fire conference and my daughter does to my daughter wants me to cover the the whole gifts thing and all that kind of stuff and I'm just like I'll tell you what.

When it's when it actually happens. And I get a chance. I think I could probably talk Phil Johnson into a freebie set of recordings. Or access to the mp3s or whatever and I can you know Throw it on the iPod and actually listen to what people said then maybe but I just I just sort of get the feeling that that all this pre stuff and The the chatter going back and forth especially between Michael Brown and and any number of bloggers.

I'm just sort of like shouldn't we have the conference first? See what's said before everybody starts piling on and arguing about stuff. I mean Certainly on on some things like some of the just wild-eyed Radically wrong stuff.

That's just so clearly obvious. I mean obviously I would I would love to have a discussion with Michael sometime about his role in the Brownsville revival. Because I've watched some videos of that and I'm just how how do you defend that?

How do you not see that that is? Miles and miles and miles away from anything even Remotely like what we have in New Testament Christianity. But I want to I want to hear what the speakers have to say.

I want to hear what kind of criticisms a level and I just get the real feeling that. There's more communication it may not be overly friendly at the moment, but there's more communication with Michael Brown and More reform folks because of our debate people listen to that the other debate that he did after that on Long Island and because they've heard him and I Debating Unitarians and it's like wow that guy's really great on these areas.

But then they're like all these other areas. Wow you know and I just have a feeling there's more of this pre-conference chatter because of that so I think when is that conference is that in? September I think it is somebody in channel will probably tell me eventually I think it's I think it's in in in September I'm looking forward to hearing it.

I'm not gonna be there but I'm looking forward to getting the recordings fairly quickly and We'll certainly try To listen to them that's gonna be if it's later in September right before I head for London in South Africa well, I can't guarantee much there, but Well there's a there's a link lady Smith in Channel put that up, so I click on it.

Oh October 16th or 18th, so we've got two months. This will be actually after I get back from From South Africa actually so yeah, we'll definitely we'll definitely take a look at it and So that's interesting I I'll be interested in see what's that, but anyhow, so we'll get to that.

But I'd like to do so once we have something to discuss the specific assertions that are being That are being made anyhow as I said I Was out and I I caught something and I only heard it once I remember exactly where I was on I think it's called Norterra Parkway up there if I recall correctly but I Made a mental note, and I said you know I really need to check that out and then last evening I had the opportunity and it really was very very Exciting for me anyways to Get to sit down once again with my Arabic tutor.

It has been a long long time and one of the things that I did is that I really want to Look at Some of these texts and ask you some questions to make sure that my looking at the text is appropriate. So what I want to do is I want to look at some text in the Quran I'll read them for if you don't have one obviously But I want to sort of make an argument, and I know some of you.

I know some of you Calvinists Have even slipped and said yeah, I really enjoy the program up until you start talking about Islam And then I just sort of you know wander off. Especially today, maybe not so much.

Well. Yeah, I think this this discussion is really important. I'd encourage you to stick with me and Even when I move on to Bashir Vania's comments, I would really recommend you stick with me because a number of the issues that he raises is an opening statement today are very very common arguments against the inspiration of the New Testament and While at times we have to deal with very specifically Islamic slants to things Sometimes what we're talking about is applicable to a much wider Range of application so Be disciplined Be strong.

Stick with me here. I Think you'll find it to be to be useful Here is what I heard I Think right now. I think by the end of the ride. I was through I was into surah 24 But this was in surah 18 ayah 27 surah 18 ayah 27 and This is a now.

I'm what I'm listening to right now right now is the abdul haleem Translation the reason I'm listening to it is Because Shabir Ali has chosen to use that as his default translation in the book that we are working on and So I thought well, that'd be a good one I've listened to read through Yusuf Ali and Sahih International and and some of these others Maududi etc.

But let's do this one this time and as long as I can get it in PDF format or something like that then it's fairly easy to create an audio version and Here was the the ayah that just somehow caught my attention and Turretin fan already knows what what it is and Recite o Muhammad what has been revealed to you of the book of your Lord?

There is no changer of his words and Never will you find in other than him a refuge? Now The phrase that caught my attention obviously it was there is no changer of his words. Now if you look at other translations they will not be as Literal as this and they'll say things like none can change his words or something like that, but the translation Use this sort of awkward phraseology that communicated to me that what we're looking at here is a Participle in the original language very similar to what we would have in Romans chapter 1.

Where I'm sorry Romans chapter 3 when it says there is no God seeker Bukha eggs a tone Tom Theon there is no There is none seeking after God. It's it's a Participle that is being used as a substantive.

There is no God seeker and here it's there there is no word changer there is no changer of his words and so as I said, I met with my my Arabic tutor and got caught up and had a lot to talk about because he's Syrian and his family's Syrian and Things are a mess in Syria and most of us over here are not getting much of meaningful act meaningfully accurate information about What's going on in Syria, but some and he it was it was rather Sobering for me for him to say it's gonna take 10 years 10 years to resolve this it'll be another decade and I'm like wow and it could end up being three different countries, too.

Which is amazing, but anyhow. But we finally had the opportunity of clearing the food off the table and looking at at the Quran and so I brought this text up and and we looked at it fairly carefully and This participle phrase there is no changer of his words is accurately translated here.

So a number of you have been asking me by the way, and I think they probably write in and ask you too rich. What are the best? Apps or programs for studying the Quran on my Mac. I have a program called zekir zekir is about The only thing I've found For the Quran the online website I mentioned earlier the corpus quranicum project is probably the best thing I've found there very very useful.

But the single best app I've found anywhere. It's not like I've done an exhaustive search or something, but I've probably run across most of them. It's for my iPad and it's not available on my Mac. If I want the the best app for studying the Quran, it's it's on my iPad.

I've actually got to use my pen and it's called my Quran. It's called my Quran and so what I did is I used you can you can highlight any word and then Ask for its root and then it'll give you an exhaustive Concordance of All the places where that root is used in the Quran now I have That huge Massive concordance paper concordance, which is what I used earlier now I don't have to use that because I have it all in in my Quran very very very very useful.

And so I I looked at this this root. Because I asked my tutor, you know, what does it mean to change alter, you know. And he would say he says yeah, like, you know tarifa nas the the actual changing altering of the text itself.

And so I looked and that particular Participial form is used two other times in the Quran and so I went looking for them and The first is surah 6 34. Surah 6 34 and Notice the consistency here. Here is surah 6 34 and certainly were messengers denied before you but they were patient over the effects of denial and they were harmed until our victory came to them and none can alter the words of Allah and There has certainly come to you some information about the previous messengers.

Well exact same Assertion and None can alter the words of Allah surah 6 34 and The last reference of the three so you've got 18 27 6 34 is also in surah 6 and it's surah 6 1 15. Surah 6 1 15 and the word of your Lord has been fulfilled in truth and injustice.

None can alter his words and he is the hearing the knowing. So whenever this root is used in the Quran it is used of the exact same context and That is no one can alter the words of Allah. Can't be done now modern Muslims.

For I believe reasons outside of the text of the Quran. Modern Muslims will Interpret this very narrowly and They will interpret it as only in reference to the Quran itself. The question I have is is that a teaching of the Quran is that a teaching the Quran is is the Quran saying?

Well only only The the Quran cannot be changed because obviously The vast majority of Muslims today believe that the the Bible has been corrupted that the Torah has been incorrupted has been corrupted the Injil has been corrupted and Why do they believe that they believe that because they have have looked so carefully at what the Quran and the hadith says.

No. No. That's not why for example. I also had had noted this on an earlier ride. It had really stuck with me and I wanted to make reference to it and that's why I'm bringing it in here. Listen to this in surah 3 Ayah 3 he has sent down upon you o Muhammad the book in truth confirming what was before it and he revealed the Torah and the gospel before as guidance for the people and He revealed the Quran.

Indeed those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment and Allah is exalted in might the owner of retribution now notice the terminology that is Utilized here, and it doesn't necessarily come real clearly in this translation, but when you actually look at the at the Arabic, it's a little bit clearer and He has sent down upon you to send down upon you the book in truth so the term is nuts all to send down and So here the Quran the book in truth is sent down to Muhammad and It confirms what was before it the same language.

It's used in surah 5. Where Jesus comes he confirms what was before him. Muhammad comes he confirms what was before him. It's this chain again of Torah in Jill Quran. This is this is really problematic for my Muslim friends and As soon as he says he sent down the book in truth confirming What was before it then it says and he revealed the Torah and the gospel.

But I checked the Arabic the roots the same root sent down. He sent down the Torah and the gospel before as guidance for the people. This is just one of many many texts in the Quran where the Torah and the Injil are said to have been sent down they contain light and guidance the very same language of inspiration that's being claimed for the Quran is Ascribed to the Torah and the Injil so if you're just reading the Quran What would force you to think That if there's no changer of the words of Allah What would force you to think that that means the words of Torah and the words of the Injil have been changed.

Because they've been that's all they've been sent down and if there is no changer of the words of Allah And these are the words of Allah they contain light and guidance. They're sent down by Allah, then how can they be changed?

How can they be changed? That's the question. Now I've mentioned before There's two streams of thought. Pretty much from the beginning. I I think I could probably argue successfully that one is earlier than the other but they're both fairly primitive.

Two streams of thought within Islam and only since the late 1800s has one stream pretty much predominated the other two streams of thought tarif al-mana and tarif al-nas that is One stream asserts that what has been altered or changed in The Torah and the Injil is the Interpretation not the words because there is none who can change the words of Allah.

But what's been changed and distorted? Is is the meaning and so for example there is a reference I'll have in front of me. I'd have to look it up. It's somewhere Before 24 because I heard it recently where it talks about hiding things and Accuses the Jews of of hiding certain portions.

That means they possessed it, but they're hiding it. They don't want you to know about it and of course the famous story of when Muhammad inquired about what was in the Torah and and The Jewish person put his hand over the portion.

They didn't want to read and then Muhammad says move your hand read that and that's the portion about stoning and so on so forth. There's a famous story told about about that's found in the Hadith and historical sources and so you have a Long stream of Islamic thought and scholars who Have taken very seriously this assertion that there's none that can change Allah's words and The Torah and the Injil are the are God's words and therefore it's the interpretation.

But today the vast majority of Muslims vast majority of Muslims. Primarily because of a book I've mentioned to you before it's our al-haq a book written in India in the late 1800s. Which is basically a really really really really bad compilation of Every kind of liberal argument against the Bible you could ever find primarily drawn from German criticism without the slightest bit slightest bit of fairness balance or scholarship but it continues to influence large numbers of Islamic apologists to this day Despite its being really really bad on so many levels.

Anyhow since it's our al-haq the vast majority of Of Muslims Even if they don't know why believe that the Bible has been altered that the Tarif the changing the corruption has to do with the very words and We've heard that how many times in this program.

We'll we'll hear it again today listening to Bashir Vania obviously, he would believe in the utter corruption of the text of of the Bible. Now one of the primary texts that they utilize and if we could queue up a break it to a quarter till you got it Ready to go.

Okay. One of the primary texts that they will refer to and I I should have brought the book in here. I apologize I do Refer to it in my book. So, let me see if very very quickly I can just happen to Scan through it here Fast enough.

My bibliography is a little bit too long to do that. Very very quickly. Oh Did he did he did he there it is? Excellent book not cheap. It's a Brill book. Sorry, but Gordon Nichols book narratives of tampering in the earliest commentaries on the Quran from Brill from 2011.

Excellent work. Very very important. I would love to see in fact, I know that my Muslim friends are listening I hope Yusuf Ismail and Bashir Vania and and Abdullah Al-Andalusi and and my other friends will will listen into this program.

I would love to see a Really scholarly fair interaction With Nichols work from the Islamic side. I really really would I Would challenge you all to do that I think you would I think you would have to grow by doing so I would really very much challenge y 'all to look at excellent material in there where he goes through all of the passages where corruption could possibly be mentioned and uses some of the earliest Tafsir literature to To flesh out what the early Muslims thought about this.

Well the one text it's pretty much in all the lists Is Surah 279. Surah 279 and this is actually going to fit in with Bashir Vania when we get to him because he's going to make a similar allegation based upon Jeremiah and so we have to look at that.

So it's a really good a sort of dovetail here and. But in Surah 2 Here is the the text from Surah 279 woe then To those who write out the scriptures with their own hands and then in order to make a trifling gain claim.

This is from Allah. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they thus earn and so the common interpretation of this is that see People were writing scriptures and they're just writing their own words and saying this is from God.

And that's where you get your Torah. That's where you get your Old Testament. That's where you get your New Testament from us from these people who are writing out scriptures their own hands. Now is that what the text says?

Well I would just refer you to the preceding context. Starting Just a few verses earlier and when they meet those who believe in Muhammad. They say we to believe in him, but in their intimate meetings.

They say to one other how foolish why should you? Intimate to them what Allah has revealed to you for they will use it as an argument against you before your Lord. Are they unaware that Allah knows all that they hide and all that they disclose.