More Responses to the Brothers at Native Speaks

All right, I thought we'd continue looking at this video from Native Speaks with KB and Amin I'm. I think I'm supposed to talk to these two brothers Tomorrow night. I don't think it's confirmed completely yet, but hopefully that does happen.

So I am looking forward to that. Yeah, but let's just jump right in. I mean, I like this video. I thought that the first half of it was pretty good. So let's dive right back into it and and hear what these brothers have to say.

Oh. This is a kale and lemon juice smoothie doesn't taste very good, but it's good for the blood pressure.

The Problem of Borrowed Language in Social Justice

Yeah, different terms that all mean different things. But can we just deal with language. The concern is that we're hearing Christians use language that are that are Typically found in the mouths of liberals.

That is true.

That is one of the concerns and it's but it's not only the language though it's it's actually what the meaning behind the language is because I Think of it what they're about to say if I remember correctly what they're about to say is that social justice what they mean is a biblical form of social justice not really what the world means.

And so we shouldn't shy away from the term. And On the one hand I can understand that viewpoint. Because we don't want to let the world steal terms from from us and change the meaning of them. But on the other hand, I don't because I've demonstrated on this channel many many times that it's it's really not just the term that's being borrowed it's also the standards like Wealth inequalities income inequalities these are viewed as injustices in the world according to worldly philosophies.

But the Bible doesn't know anything about that. Income inequalities are not viewed as an injustice in the Bible. And so when you borrow the term and also the methodology and also the philosophy, I mean, that's a serious concern there.

Yeah, then those who don't want nothing to do with with the gospel those who have forgotten the gospel forgotten eternity. And when when. Christians Who are largely conservative and evangelical? Hear you talking that way.

They they feel as though you're selling the gospel that you you're essentially becoming a a echo chamber to the left.

To the far left for that matter, right? Yeah, not only that but but most people don't want to have this conversation, too and so it's a serious echo chamber people just preaching to the choir and I appreciate the fact that KB and Amin here are willing to talk to people they disagree with.

That is very rare on your side. I commend you brothers for and that's the only way we're gonna move forward in unity. That's the only way it's gonna happen.

How do how do you sort of grapple with that? You know critique with the language? Yes. Yeah. I thought well, I just think that again. We have to. One of the things that have to be done that has to be done by people's they actually have to listen to what people are.

Saying yeah. Because a lot of the times what happens is that? You hear somebody saying the word oppress or you hear the somebody saying the word oppression or you hear somebody saying the word systemic racism and injustice and then what you have is you have people take what people.

They take people on the left and they and they and they kind of conflate what they're saying with what we're saying and they say. You guys are all the same. Yeah, right and and I think that a lot of that comes from them not listening to what we're actually saying or what we actually.

Mean, I don't know if that's actually true I mean, that's probably true in some instances but I think a lot of the times it's it's actually people that are listening and see the very the Extreme similarities to what you're saying and what the world is saying.

I mean, there's a perfect example of this. There was a there's a book I'm reading and it's a great book. By David Chilton and in it. He talks about how there was a liberal socialist of the time a Christian.

Who who basically said that slavery is equal to oppression? It's like the prime example of oppression and that's actually not the case. Biblically speaking now slavery as it was practiced in the United States was very much oppression.

I mean the slaves that were taken to the United States, they were stolen. They were kidnapped according to the law of God kidnapping is this crime punishment punishable by death? So that was completely oppression but slavery in and of itself is not oppression.

The Bible does not present that at all in fact The Bible is is a document that that says that slavery is absolutely allowable in certain circumstances. It's never allowable when you kidnap somebody but it's allowable in certain circumstances.

And so if if someone were to say well all slavery is oppression. Well, that's an unbiblical statement. That's a worldly philosophy. That's not a godly philosophy. Um, I think that the way trigger warning.

The term Marxism is thrown around a lot that we are neo-marxist that were cultural Marxist.

Yes, and and that's true that term is I keep interrupting them and I'm sorry but but that that is used a lot and the reason why it's used a lot is because a lot of the ideas sound very Similar to neo-marxist ideas.

So in other words If you have that if you present this idea that income inequality equals oppression or or equals an injustice That's a neo-marxist kind of idea because income inequality is not evil income inequality or wealth inequality is not an injustice According to the scripture.

In fact, the scripture assumes it. In fact, the scripture assumes that it will continue basically forever. And so it's not an injustice. So when you say that it is an injustice That is an idea that comes from neo-marxism.

Now, you might not be a self-conscious neo-marxist and I'm okay with that but you have to understand that Promoting economic equality or wealth equality or income equality. That is a neo-marxist idea and.

We hear that all the time, but we the fact the matter is number one. We're not neo-marxist and we're not cultural Marxist and I think that that is a whole different discussion for a different day. But I think that there are a lot of people that are throwing around buzzwords for a cultural war and to label somebody as Marxist is.

Is to label somebody for a cultural war? To be able to put them on one side and then put you on another side and be able to battle.

I guess that's true and and I if you look at my videos, I very rarely call someone a Marxist or a cultural cultural Marxist or Critical race theorist. I may have done it once or twice. I actually don't think I have even ever done it.

I think there was one time I said if I was gonna call anyone a cultural Marxist, it would be this guy. But but yeah, so if you're I mean I can understand that criticism but but but but please brother.

You got to use the equal standards because you know, and I'm not saying that you guys do this. I haven't watched enough of your stuff, but you know that people on your side call all sorts of people white supremacists white Racists like millions and millions of people white supremacists and you don't think those are fighting words for some reason.

That's not a culture war word. That is the ultimate cultural culture war kind of word and and actually that comes from Critical race theory neo-marxism, you know that kind of thing. So I'm not saying it's if it's you do it's okay for us to do it.

I'm not saying that but what I am saying is let's use equal scales here. Um and.

What Biblical Justice Requires

Fundamentally, I'm gonna get right over here and it fundamentally allows you a scapegoat. From dealing with the actual issues, right? We're fighting while we're throwing, you know grenades at each other.

People are dying. Yeah, and and and and dying from the at the hands of state-sponsored violence, right? They're dying at the hands of being of hunger and being under resourced, right? And the most important thing about their death is not even the circumstance in which they died.

But they're not actually being engaged with the gospel because we're not we're we're busy fighting in the locker room that we're not even on The field doing the work, right? Right? I Don't really think that's true.

Honestly don't really think that's true. I think that there are plenty of people in the mission field plenty of people spreading the gospel. I mean are there as many as there should be. Probably not but it's a little bit of a hyperbole there.

And I and and and I think that what a lot of opponents would say to you is that whoa. That's what we're talking about is that you need to just preach the gospel to them instead of fighting about These social justice issues and right right right dad.

And if you were just preaching the gospel, then that wouldn't be the case. And and the people who aren't actually out preaching the gospel. Yeah I mean the thing is that most people that that that come to yeah.

No, I think that's a little blow and I don't think it's true at all. I'd like to see the statistics about that.

The social justice argument. I think that John MacArthur has done this. John MacArthur has come to the social like again.

Like they mentioned John MacArthur right there. I mean, I mean, he's one of the ones criticizing. In that way, I'm not one of the ones that's saying just preach the gospel. But but you know. Some people are and John MacArthur and his followers are and you can't really say that he's not Preaching the gospel to people like you can't really say that.

You know, you know what I mean? That's that's not really a true criticism so justice argument. And said.

You guys didn't just preach the gospel, right? There's a quote and I'm gonna I'm gonna quote John MacArthur here if I can. Is when they were asking John MacArthur about how he feels about this was there was a black brother I forget his name.

The interview John MacArthur a while ago was asking him how he feels about racial justice and about police brutality and All these things that are happening. This is what John MacArthur said. He said Christ has already predetermined before the foundation of the world the racial mix of his church.

So all I want to do is preach the gospel. With the same love that God has already determined to shed on every tribe and tongue and people and nation on the planet. So there's a sense in which this is a non-issue and what John MacArthur was saying that there's a sense in which this is.

Yeah, I'm quoting John MacArthur directly. He says I can't fix racial injustices. My responsibility is to realize that in Christ. There's neither male nor female Jew nor Greek bond nor free were all one in Christ.

The object of life is no longer to fix past injustices. So the object of life now is to proclaim Christ to whomever and I just will not give up on that agenda. Once you come to Christ all other issues disappear and the gospel takes promise, right?

So so so.

Um, let me say this I think there's a legitimate criticism here. Not completely. You can see KB. He's about to he's about to I Don't know what he's about to say, but I actually this is where I stopped watching roughly I think so.

I'm not sure what he's about to say, but but anyway I think there's a legitimate criticism here. I think One of my biggest pet peeves is when is when somebody says we'll just preach the gospel and that will solve it and on the one Hand, I want to agree with that because yeah God the power of God unto salvation is through the preaching of his word.

That's something that that's that's the that's the means that he's ordained in order to convert souls and once you convert souls the Holy Spirit does its work and. And and he will he will transform that person from the inside out will sanctify that person.

Every single day to hopefully be more like Christ than that person was the day before and so as you get that You know, you start to walk in good works and and things like that. This is this is core doctrine of Christianity.

So on the one hand people, let's say just preach the gospel. All right. But the Great Commission is is twofold, right? So in other words you you preach the gospel and you baptize People as they convert to Christ so that's the first part of the of the God of the Great Commission and then the second part of the Great Commission is to Teach them to obey all of Christ's commands.

And what are Christ's commands and love God love neighbor. Essentially the the moral law of God and the civil law of God. Those are Christ's commands. And so You can't just say well, here's the gospel now.

Good luck. And I think I don't think John MacArthur saying that. But you but you but you have to be able to speak to these issues. Well, what does God say about this situation? So in other words it like like recently there was a there was a police officer who was this is just yesterday.

Who was convicted of killing an unarmed teenager an unarmed black teenager I don't know if it was racially motivated I have no idea but the point is he was convicted of murdering him. And so that's that's you know, that was justice being done.

And so the question is what does God say the punishment for that should be right? Because if that cop gets one year in prison or one year probation or or Find a hundred bucks. I Would say well, that's unjust and I think everyone would say that's unjust.

Well, what if the cop got 20 years? Is that just I think you'd have some people that say yeah, some people would say no. The question is what does God say? What is the standard? That's what we need to find out.

That's what the scriptures we need to you know, we're preaching the gospel. We're also preaching people to obey everything that the Lord commands and the Lord commands. If you apply the general equity of the law of God if somebody murders somebody the penalty is death.

That's what Just restitution is that's what justice is. So if this cop does not get the death penalty that is not justice, right? So That's what we need to we need to find out. And so there is of course preaching the gospel will lead to you know teaching people to obey everything that God commands and John McArthur MacArthur teaches that because lots of his preaching is focused on Obeying what God commands now might there be an inconsistency in MacArthur's focus?

Well, I don't know enough about MacArthur to know but it's possible. And so so I think we need to make sure that we understand that there's two parts of the Great Commission. There's the conversion. There's the preaching of the gospel of the Lord and then there's the teaching to obey everything that Christ says command making disciples making Students of the Word of God so we can know and like like we talked about last time with these two.

They're talking about restitution. That's the right that's the right conversation, but we need to find out What does the Bible say is restitution? We can't just say well restitution and whatever I say is restitution.

That's what it is. No, the Bible gives us clear parameters on what biblical restitution is now. Let's see what KB has to say. It looks like he's about to say something really good. Let's find out.

The Limits of “Just Preach the Gospel”

So one of the things that I will say about that is that there's a lot it's triggered triggered. He said about that and that kind of underpins John MacArthur's article on social justice that we're talking about and all of the subsequent Articles that are gonna follow the article that he put that he published.

So um, and I how do you know that? I think that the fact that you can say that Once you come to Christ all other issues disappear and the gospel takes prominence.

I don't I don't think that's what he's saying though. And I don't want to speak for John MacArthur because he's more than capable of speaking for himself but I've heard a lot of MacArthur servants where he talks about what you should do now that you're a Christian and.

Some of them I agree with some of them I don't agree with but I don't think he's just the kind of guy that says Okay, you're saved. Good luck. You know, that's all that matters. I don't think that's the kind of guy he is and I know that many of his followers are not like that.

And so you might not think he goes far enough. You might not think that He's applying it correctly, but the way are applying the lesson the law of God or whatever correctly. But that that's where the argument has to be it has to be okay.

Well, here's why I think you're not going far enough or not applying the law of God correctly. That's where this argument has to be because I'm not I'm not sure that John MacArthur is the kind of guy that's just like Oh, you're saved now.

Good luck. Because I've seen I haven't seen too much but I've seen enough to know that he does preach on what to do now that you're.

A Christian I don't think that that's what the gospel does. I mean I. The gospel is not this mystical panacea that just fixes everything. Because if that was the case that we went we the church would be fine.

There would be no infighting. We wouldn't even be having this this conversation of discussion. But the the the main thing is is that you would not have have had. People who believed in the gospel who claim to be preaching the gospel.

Yeah, who claimed to be about gospel fidelity that were complicit in perpetuating racism and slavery. Yeah, so so so we can we can say that the gospel just fix every fixes everything, right? But it doesn't it doesn't necessarily really fix everything when you have people that believe in the gospel.

That were that were that were complicit in perpetuating racism. Yes. Yes. Yeah again.

He has a decent point here. So I think that there's a legitimate criticism here. Yes, we want to say that that you know guys like John Edwards and in some of these reformers and things that that were Active at a time of slavery whatever they had a real gospel.

Like I don't think too many people want to say that they were unsaved some people do say they were unsaved. I don't think that that makes any sense at all. But so they had the real gospel but yet they were still sinning and it's like well.

Why is that and I don't think that that's that confusing because these guys talked about their sins. You know what? I mean? They talked about why that was and so there's an inconsistency there. So we can we can look back and say well John Edwards or whoever it was.

I'm not gonna even say John Edwards because I don't really know about his specific views but Whoever it was they were wrong in this area. Even though they had the real gospel because they weren't faithfully applying this scripture or whatever it was and and it could be even the scripture.

Against man-stealing, you know kidnapping or whatever it is and you can point to that. So that's what we need to do now if we don't want to be inconsistent like they were. Then we need to make sure that what we're saying is biblical.

It has biblical warrant. And so when you guys say well Biblical restitution would mean that the government should give a payment to those who were stolen from. We need to look in the scripture and say well does the Bible allow the government to do that?

Is that biblical that's what we need to do. We need to look to the scripture look to the general equity of the law of God and say well. Is that can we visit the sins of the fathers onto the sons? And if you look at the law of God, you very clearly cannot do that.

You know what? I mean. And so if you don't want to be inconsistent like, you know, like all the reformers were and not all of them. You didn't say all of them. But but some of the reformers were in the United States.

Then you need to make sure that your state sticking with what the Bible says. That's all I'm calling people to. I'm not calling people to ignore justice issues. I'm not calling people to say I'll just preach the gospel.

All I'm calling people to is a biblical fidelity making sure that you're being Students of the scripture the law of God what justice actually is in specific detail. That's what I'm calling people to.

The Great Commission, Civil Law, and Biblical Restitution

And can I just qualify? No, you say I think what I mean is saying is I Think what he's saying is that you? Just solely Sharing the death barrier and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Just sharing it. Yeah is not sufficient to Sort of engage all that God is requiring of this world and of his people.

Yes, so like so so like if you were to if you were to go to a Foreign country where they didn't speak English. Yeah. And because it's so what I'm about to say is something that folks believing in manifest destiny many of them being reformed in their thought would show up at mainly Catholic but but they would show up in In You know frontier places just they show up in in in in different different countries and they would take out a a you know scroll and They would share the gospel.

They were they would get up get on the beach.

Pull out this scroll right and they were Catholic. Were they really sharing the gospel? Say listen you Uncivilized lost broken people we were uncivilized they were lost and they were broken. And they were pagans and I would say and but before we hear KB out here I would say that the fact that their land was taken and that their populations were decimated was a move of God.

God was judging the pagan people that were engaging in all kinds of pagan Sacrifices and Human sacrifices and painting each other with the blood of their enemies and stuff like that. By the way, Europeans were doing that before the gospel came, you know what I mean?

So like this is not like just you know People that have more melanin in their in their skin that we're doing these kinds of things. No, no. No, no Europeans were or engaging in human sacrifice and eating each other's hearts and stuff like that.

I don't know if they were really doing that but but this this is this is all this is the state of all people before the gospel comes and so I think even if even if you want to say well We shouldn't have done that that wasn't just for us to steal their land.

I might agree with you there I have no problem with that. But what I would say is that that was a move of God. God was judging them and he jug. Nobody owns their land. God owns the land. He gives it to whoever he wants and so and and when we look we can look to the Old Testament for many Examples of this kind of thing God judges Israel with Assyria and Babylon and he says well I'm gonna come in with Assyria.

That's the rod of my anger and and we're and I'm gonna judge you. We're gonna take your land. We're gonna do this kind of stuff. Oh, and by the way, Assyria because of the condition of your hearts because your heart is not right.

You're not doing this for a godly reason. I'm gonna judge you after that. How do you like that? And I think that's what's that's what's going on with some of this stuff. Let's see what he has to say about this.

Here on the behalf of the Lord Jesus Christ To show you his good way and his good news You need to believe on him to inherit eternal life. If not, you will perish if you do not respond to what we are saying.

We take it as your rejection of the gospel and therefore your rejection of our peaceful means to enter your country. And we will be left with no other No other option but to take you into captivity and occupy your land and In many of your life lives.

That was a regular practice and they would say right and I would say that that was wrong.

At the same time it was still a move of God judging the pagans. So in other words, they're sort of right that God was was judging their lands. And so they were taking them to captivity. They were killing them.

They were you know, whatever. I think that was a move of the Holy Spirit. In other words God was judging the pagans for their pagan ways. But that doesn't make what they were doing, right? Because we're not supposed to spread the gospel like that.

However the gospel did spread like that and so we can we can sit now in the future and say well Thank God for for coming here and spreading the gospel here. We want we don't want to emulate that but that is how you did it.

What we shared the gospel we wouldn't share. They didn't get it. But don't you realize that making a good point here? I like it for the gospel to be shared. It has to be understood, right? You're not sharing the gospel if you're just announcing things.

Unaware of the context and the language and the experience the things that are going on. I'm a missions major. We spent a long we spent a lot of our time trying to figure out How do you translate the Bible into a culture where they have no concept of sheep goats, right?

Here's tears wheat or bread, right?

Contextualization Without Compromising the Gospel

He's making a good point. I think he's gonna go too far, but but we'll see what he does. But but he makes a good point. I mean, yeah, we have to spread share the gospel. That is very true. We have to strive to be understood in that gospel.

That's also very true and we have to also live according to the Word of God. That's where he's making a good criticism because if you share the gospel and say, okay Well, here's the gospel and even if they understand you right like even if somebody speaks English and you're sharing the gospel them.

Then you say alright. Well, do you accept it? And the person says no you're like, alright well, I'm gonna steal your house and And beat you up like obviously you're sharing the gospel, but you're not like living according to the Word of God.

So you have to do all of it.

Let's see what he says. Bible translation that we looked at. We had to translate the the Bible had to be translated to the yams. Yeah of God. Because they had no concept that the yam of life right? They had no concept of bread.

There's all these miss Matt. Yeah, but you shouldn't do that though. You know what I mean because you shouldn't do that I think there's other ways to sort of Contextualize things that's me talking about.

Contextual ization. It wouldn't be okay to Take communion with potato chips just because someone doesn't know what bread is. You know what? I mean like it wouldn't be okay to take communion with coca-cola just because somebody doesn't know what grapes are.

So so I see what he's saying, but he's contextualization. There's everything's good about contextualization, but I see a lot especially with this crowd the social justice crowds over contextualization to the point where you're having a hard time even.

Understanding that it's how it's still Christian this work that is done to help to Apply the gospel right to a person's heart. And then What are we've been talking about for the last 10 years? The gospel is you believe on the gospel, but that's not you don't stop there.

Then the gospel is to permeate permeate your whole life go into all the world and preach the gospel.

Gospel Fidelity, the Law of God, and the Limits of Reparations

That's what I'm saying, though. That's why we can't let these these Marxist type of categories of oppressor oppressed white supremacy Income equality, you know things like that. We can't let that permeate our message because that's not from the Bible.

That's not from the scripture. That's my whole point. That's why the only reason I have a YouTube channel is because yes, you get in the gospel, right? You guys are getting the gospel, right? That's true.

And you're understanding that the gospel permeates every area of life. That's a good thing. But the problem is we have to derive our view of justice from the scripture it has to be Distinctly Christian from the Old Testament moral law from the Old Testament.

This is the general equity of the law of God and and you guys do do that from time to time. But but I with respect I think you treat it like a buffet you take what you like. I like restitution. That's cool.

I'll take that and I'm gonna apply it over here. But what you don't do is you don't actually look at how the Bible applies restitution, right? So you like the idea of restitution? You'll take that from the buffet, but you won't take the limitations on restitution.

In other words, do you see what I'm saying? So that's what I think you guys do a lot. I mean, I see lots of social justice people quote the Old Testament, but they're never actually applying the case law of God.

They're never actually applying the general equity of the law of God. Yeah, do you see what I'm saying? So so I would apply the general equity and things like well kidnapping. That's a crime punishable by death.

If we don't if we just give you a slap on the wrist for a kidnapping. Well, that's not just I would say well restitution is limited to the people who actually stole so you can't Visit the sins of the fathers on to the children you guys want to do that because I know you don't you're not going.

You know door-to-door looking for reparations. But you want the government to do it and the government's gonna extract it from people like me who had nothing to do with it. In fact, I was I guess supposedly oppressed back then.

And so that's the point like like we can't treat the Old Testament Moral law and the general equity of the law of God. We can't treat it like a buffet and take what we like and reject what we don't like.

God's not gonna be pleased with that kind of justice.

We can't stop right there. What else Jesus right. Teach them to obey all that I have Commanded to for for convenience sake. I'm I'm I'm assuming a motive but it seems like convenience. We want to in when we get to race and social engagement.

We want to simplify it and say just just preach it and then you don't worry about anything else. All right.

Maybe we'll come back to this some other time. But but first of all race has nothing to do with justice by the by the way I mean, there's no different justice for different races. God says there's one law for the stranger or for the native born so I don't know what that has to do with it.

Whatever, but again, that's an example of kind of picking and choosing. The kind of laws you want to take but I'll tell you right now KB's dead on. That's what that's why I agree with them in some ways.

Yes, you got to teach them to obey everything that God commands. If I I mean here's something Jesus said. This is Matthew chapter 5. This is actually the reason I came to take the law of God seriously.

There was an atheist who would shame me on this verse constantly when I would say, oh, well, yeah, you know Death penalty doesn't apply anymore and he'd take me to this this passage and he was right. This is Jesus Christ.

He says do not think that I've come to abolish the law of the prophets. I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Greg Bonson does some really good work about what does this fulfill mean? And you know, he's here to confirm the law of God.

Jesus confirms the law of God. For truly I say to you until heaven and earth pass away not an iota. Not a dot will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Therefore. This is this is something that we need to hear in the church today.

Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same Will be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This is why we need to have a laser focus on. Speaking about the moral law of God. Applying the general equity of the civil law of God to define what justice is when I speak to these brothers tomorrow.

That's what I hope the conversation will be about. What is the general equity of the law of God? How do we apply it today? Because that is the only standard for justice if you're taking anything else and saying well, you know we have.

We need to have racial justice and income inequality or income equality and economic justice and things like that. And you're not deriving those definitions from Scripture. Well, we have a really serious problem.

Anyway, I hope this was helpful. God bless.