April 12, 2022 Show with Matthew J. Trewhella & Matt Kenitzer on “A Proper Resistance to Tyranny”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century Gospel Minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors, Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the Church and the world today.

Proverbs 27, verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 12th day of April, 2022.

Matthew J. Trewhella and the Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates

And I'm thrilled to have a first-time guest by popular demand. His name is Matthew J. Trujillo. He is pastor of Mercy Seat Christian Church, founded in 1989 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and he is the founder of the pro-life organization Missionaries to the Preborn.

He is author of the book The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates, A Proper Resistance to Tyranny, and A Repudiation of Unlimited Obedience to Civil Government. He is my guest for the first hour, and for the second hour, we will be joined by a friend of his, Matt Kennitzer.

He is pastor of St. John's Reform Church of Freidensburg, Pennsylvania, and he is going to be hosting a conference where my first guest will be speaking, the Freidensburg Biblical Institute's Conference on Pressing Issues of Today and Interposition, and that's going to be held this June.

But first of all, let me warmly welcome, for the very first time ever to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, my first guest today, Matthew J. Trujillo.

Hey, great to be here with you, Chris. Thank you.

Oh, the pleasure is all mine, brother. So, tell our listeners about Mercy Seat Christian Church.

Yeah, I pastor Mercy.

How would you describe the theological makeup of Mercy Seat Christian Church?

Well, if people are interested in seeing what our beliefs are...

That's right, from the Westminster Shorter Catechism.

Yes, exactly. In their catechism, some instruct them in the faith, something to do, and we...

Oh, great. Great. Well, I think, being a Reformed Baptist myself, Reformed Christians can never be reminded too often that we are supposed to be enjoying God forever, and sometimes, unfortunately, we who are Reformed live up to the stereotype of being frighteningly sour and down...

What's the word I'm looking for? Depressing in our character and our behavior. So, when I latch on to somebody who's Reformed and has a good sense of humor, I'm always very happy about that. And, once again, that website, which I'm sure we'll repeat later on in the program, is mercyseat .net.

Before we get into the content of our discussion today, which is the content of your book, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates, A Proper Resistance to Tyranny, and A Repudiation of Unlimited Obedience to Civil Government, before we get into that discussion, I would like you to carry on the tradition of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio whenever we have a first-time guest.

We have that guest give a summary of their salvation testimony, which would include the religious upbringing, if any, that they had, and the providential circumstances that our Sovereign Lord raised up in their lives that drew them to himself and saved them, and that would include you.

So, let's hear an abbreviation of your story.

Sure, yeah, well, I was raised in a Roman Catholic home. Went to Mass every Sunday. Actually had family prayers when I was little. That all diminished, though. And then my parents. And I quit going to church because of, you know, my dad.

So once he was gone, I quit going. Grew up on the east side of Detroit where I grew up. I was a minority. Got involved at a young age, age 14, in gang activity. They threw me out of the house at age 14.

I went to live with my dad, and then he threw me out. So I went back to see my mom. Had knocked on the door, and she opened up about Jesus.

Praise God.

Yeah, amen, amen. And so a while after that, I came to Christ. I was actually put into Teen Challenge, that program.

Very familiar with it.

Yep, I was tried for arson before I came to Christ. Transformation, we went to church on a Sunday morning. I walked in. We went into the sanctuary. Came out, started playing the piano, and began to worship.

Wow.

They gave an altar. I knew Christ had already transformed my life. And little cards that I give out. Because what I've noticed over my lifetime, I do a lot of ministry at universities. And regardless of how hot, when I, and I think at the end, and they get to see, no, He transformed my life.

Praise God. And I understand that your testimony was actually turned into one of the radio plays on Unshackled.

That is correct.

Yep.

And at that website, I have my testimony written out, probably about 25 pages.

Great. And once again, that is HowJesusChangedMyLife .com. Well, we are going to be discussing today something very controversial, which is your book. And the book, once again, is titled The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates, A Proper Resistance to Tyranny and a Repudiation of Unlimited Obedience to Civil Government.

And obviously, that book probably caused quite a stir amongst the body of Christ, as during the whole COVID crisis, we all scratched our heads as we saw close friends and allies becoming, I don't want to exaggerate the opposition, but almost enemies, when we were disagreeing with one another on how we are to respond to the government when they are making unreasonable demands upon our lives and even the activities of our church.

And it's so phenomenal to have a resource like this book. So tell us exactly what you mean by The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates and also what prompted you to finally put pen to paper and write this book.

Sure.

Well, the doctrine simply is that when the higher-ranking civil authority makes unjust or immoral law, policy, or court opinion, the lower or lesser rankings of the God-given right and duty not to obey, and if necessary, Christianity, and limits us.

So this is something that the magistrates need to be taught and the people. And for the pre-born, Chris, is that, you know, we're talking about murder, and we didn't see one governor, one mayor, and that one city council anywhere in the country simply say, no, no murder is going to...

And then the Lord used prisons out at the death camps everywhere. So, but what we saw was a slide downward into decadence law. In 2007, we just, we get together every two...

I love that line, I've never heard of spiritual tank tops before, nothing up our sleeves.

Yes.

I was really impressed to publish a website where we teach the magistrates of our nation and the people, The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrate, and he's impressed upon me. I need to write it. So I started in 2007.

And if you could get into a little bit of detail about the Magdeburg Confession.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, and by the way, this is very timely that I'm on your show, because tomorrow, April 13th, 1550, was when it was published.

Wow, this is totally providential. I did not know that.

Yes, so 472 years ago tomorrow, actually formalized. It was formalized in Magdeburg, Germany by Lutheran ministers, others who expanded much more scripture. I think the foremost treatise ever written on the Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrate was by John Knox in his Appellation to the Nobles of Scotland, written in 1558.

And he cited the Magdeburg. What had happened was Luther died in 1547. To make his move in order to re-Romanize. The vast majority all went along with it, even Melanchthon. There was this one lone citizen, a man named Nicholas von Amstorf, and he is the first signer of the Magdeburg Confession.

And understand, Nicholas von Amstorf, Philip Melanchthon, and Martin Luther were all good. Nicholas von Amstorf was when he pounded his 95 theses on the church door in Wittenberg, when he went to Worms to be tried as a heretic.

He was with Luther when Nicholas von Amstorf was magistrate, way back in 1521. Because the emperor had ordered seven electors to feign his abduction and hid him in the Vorpers' alive or dead for nearly a year.

The Germanic people, their first unified language ever. From the word of God it came. Because before that there were literally 1524. Magdeburg Reformation. 30 ,000 people. Magdeburg had the biggest city of any city.

Phi, the emperor, regarding his Augsburgian. We now call the Magdeburg Confession. Magistrates here won. It was actually a 13 month siege. The Magdeburgers were killed. But in the end, in the end, they...

Charles capitulated. And the Magdeburgers won. So understand this, Chris. If it had not been for the interposition of Magdeburg...

Wow.

By the way, I thought I should mention that our guest today has been identified by one of my most frequently interviewed guests, Dr. Joseph C. Moorcraft III, who was my guest both Friday of last week and yesterday.

Dr. Moorcraft, a brilliant historian and scholar and theologian and teacher, pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church in Cumming, Georgia. He has nicknamed my guest today, Matthew J. Trujillo, as the 21st century John Knox.

And that's something to really be honored by because especially when somebody of the high caliber of Dr. Moorcraft makes such a statement.

Absolutely.

No, I couldn't agree more. And John Knox is a hero. And by the way, Dr. Moorcraft, I met Francis Schaeffer back in 1983, shortly before he died, and he had a huge impact on my life. I met Rush Dooney in 1996, not too long before he died.

He had a huge impact. I was then able to meet later. So hearing those kind of words, yeah.

Yes, and Knox is probably the reformer most known for his defying tyranny, would you say?

Oh, absolutely.

What I love about Knox and why he's, is because he's so wanted and worked for seeing God's law. And when you read about his life, we're tremendous. You read his debates before the magistrates. It's tremendous.

And I wanted to give our e-mail address to our listeners. If you have a question for Matthew J. Trujillo on the doctrine of the lesser magistrates, a proper resistance to tyranny and a repudiation of unlimited obedience to civil government, our e-mail address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C-H-R-I-S-A-R-N-Z-E-N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Let's say you are uncomfortable about the way your own church has been responding to some of these mandates and things going on in our nation or lack of response. And obviously we wouldn't want you to be mentioning your church by name or your pastors by name.

Or you might even be the pastor and you're disappointed by your own congregation or your denomination. We would understand that that kind of a question would require you to remain anonymous, but if it's just a general question, please give us your first name, your city and state, and country of residence.

We already have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania with a question. How does your book and the doctrine of the lesser magistrates apply to the mandates involving masks and vaccines?

Sure. Well, first let me direct you to our website, which is defy tyrant. Many stories. That's one of them, one of the beauty, unleashing of the tyrants, if you will, all their mandates. And we've actually had so many examples, living examples in our time of the magistrates.

And I could, we documented over five. And, of course, by any means, in fact, it didn't come from any state governments either. Virtually none. Most states, they love to play the bill. But where we did see all these hundreds of at the county and local level.

And I'm talking about sheriffs, county boards, mayors, city councils, even school boards. Let me just share one story with you if I could, because I think it crystallizes what's been going on here. I remember back in May of 2020, when these governors were giving new draconian decrees like every 72 hours.

So just south of me where I live, I'm in Wisconsin, it's Illinois. Governor Pritzker is the governor of Illinois. He loves to play the tyrant. In May of 2020, he came out with his latest decree. And it was this.

If any businessman opens their business, you will now be arrested.

Wow.

So the very next day, in a state of 102 counties, only one, Madison County, which they gathered their county board together, and they issued their own, that our businessmen are, and that we will use, and then they cautioned the governor, and cautioned the next day, he had to pay money, and he had a whole list of passports, and they didn't get in line.

In fact, he did that for the next three, the men at the county, and then seven days after his decree, before Governor Pritzker decided to stand with Madison County.

Wow.

And the very next day after that, he rescinded his order.

Wow.

So understand, if it had not been for the interposition, that one county in all of Illinois would have remained under that draconian decree. That's how important interposition is. And just to note, the man who heads up that county board is a Christian brother, and he had read my book on the doctrine of lesser magistrates two years earlier, had taught it to the rest of the board.

They knew exactly what kind of evil, and so they did their duty and committed an act of interposition. So that's so many, where we see the lesser authorities standing in interposition against the tyranny or evil of the superior.

Well, thank you, Arnie and Perry County. By the way, I don't think I saw you at the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon in Perry County, in Loisville, to be more specific. So try to make it to the next one on September 22nd, featuring Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

But please provide your mailing address, Arnie, because you have won a free copy of the Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates by Matthew J. Trujillo, and it's also autographed by him. So make sure we get your shipping address, and we will have that shipped out to you by our friends at Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, CVBBS .com.

They will ship it out to you, and we thank Matt Trujillo for providing us with a limited number of giveaway copies. We have Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, who says, How do you respond to people who say, Why are you whining and complaining like a baby every time someone insists you wear a mask at a public place?

It seems to be a minor inconvenience, they will say. How should we respond to such people?

Sure. Yeah, the way I respond at the beginning, you have to understand that tyranny is built plank by plank. And I often use the example of the Jews during World War II, because it's a well-known, you know, it didn't start with the Jews being called down to the railroad, but it actually started eight years before that.

And the very first little war, and the Jews thought of, you know, kind of like accommodated themselves to that law, and then there was another one passed, and they accommodated themselves to that, and another, and they accommodated themselves.

Tyranny is built plank by plank. You have to understand that. And this matter of the mask isn't just, you know, whether you're going to wear a mask or not, it's tied to an evil narrative. It's tied to the tyrants on the peoples of the entire planet, it's their design.

And so there's no way... I never wore a mask once here in Wisconsin, ever. And often, me or my wife would be the only ones in the store, in that regard, up here in Wisconsin.

We got them over here, too.

Yeah, I walked in there with my 15-year-old daughter last May, and that was the last one I was thrown out of. Two young guys were standing there, and they're like, oh, sir, you have to have a mask. And he said, oh.

And he points down, and a face shield sitting on this card table. And I looked at that, and I looked up at the young man, and I said, if you think I'm going to put that on my face and walk around your store like JoJo the Circus Monkey, you're living in a fantasy land.

I look on his face, interesting five-minute conversation, which ended with me letting him know, yeah, make sure you tell your manager that Matchwell will never shop in your store. Like, they care, right?

He'll never shop in your store again. Not just when you get rid of your dopey masking thing, ever. He'll never shop in your store again because you're aiding and abetting evil. And what's sad is when you watch the churchmen, and I use what influence I could do, you know, we should not be going along with this.

You should not be closing.

You look at the history of the church, they would often bar the door of the church to keep the state out. Here you are in the midst of that. Not only did they play the traitor to Christ, many, many of them also played the prostitute because we're teaching the tyrants and their evil.

It was 20 years before. To see what it would take, estimate that about 15 of people, which is a goodness to see, because many of the churches they left weren't good churches to begin with. And it was kind of the final straw for them.

And, I mean, they went there 8 years, they told me, 10 years, 20 years, and they couldn't believe how these people were behaving,.

How they were going along with all this.

Right.

And so we've seen a lot of those who've other together in other churches. So it's been encouraging to see that.

By the way, I came up with a line early on when the mask mandates were being imposed in stores and restaurants. When someone would say, Do you have a mask?

I would reply,.

No, this is my real face.

No, that is not true.

But we have to go to our first break right now. If you have a question for Matt Trujillo, send it in immediately, because we are rapidly running out of time with his segment. We will be joined by Matt Kinnitzer, who will be hosting a conference this June featuring Matt Trujillo in the second hour.

But Matt Trujillo will only be on for about 25 more minutes or so. So if you have a question, send it to ChrisArnson at gmail .com. ChrisArnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence.

And by the way, Bobby in Hartsdale, New York, you have also won a free copy of The Doctrine of the Lesser Magistrates, autographed by Matt Trujillo. So make sure we have your full mailing address in Hartsdale, New York.

We'll be right back. Don't go away. When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.

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To advance the cause of the Gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 King James Bible. This 17th century hand-engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full-size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe.

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Why Christians Should Not Bow to Mask and Vaccine Mandates

Matt Trujillo, one of the things that came to mind when we were discussing the masks and the response you gave to a listener in Hartsdale, New York, about how to respond to somebody who says, what's the big deal about masks?

Well, even as a Christian, if you even remove the political aspect from the scenario and bowing to tyranny and all that, even as a Christian to maintain integrity, since when is it a virtue of a Christian to perpetuate a myth and a superstition like the wearing of masks to prevent the spread of a virus?

My doctor, Dr. Joel Yeager, who is the lead physician along with his wife at Heritage Family Health in Newmanstown, Pennsylvania, he says every medical student knows that a mask is absolutely worthless, especially the mask that people are wearing in public, to prevent the spread of a virus and it is really laughably ridiculous to continue to perpetuate this superstition.

And in fact, I am just so outraged every time I see a so-called medical expert on even conservative, quote-unquote, Fox News. I don't know of a single medical expert on Fox News that says that masks are worthless and I am very convinced that they are by the scientists and the physicians that I have had conversations with.

So if you want to reply to what I just said.

Sure.

No, I agree with you fully on that, Chris. And, you know, I preach sermons dealing with this, you know, because people ask what they were doing was, I mean, they were going against this quarantine laws.

You don't quarantine the whole of society. You quarantine the sick and you also have a means for them to sing or not, whereas this is just nuts what they did. Guarding. That's an attack upon the very creator of God for man.

Dominion through our work. And so when it came to the mask, I was aiding and abetting a lie. You shall not bear. There's no way that we should be wearing a mask. And I know most of the church. Oh, no, this is how we show love.

You know, we don't, as Christians, show love to our neighbor by spreading lies, by joining in a lie. Rather, we show love. What they need to hear. Love rejoices in the truth. And so when I heard the churchmen hiding behind this idea of that, then it turned out there or they can go to Sermon Audio dot com.

YouTube, by the way. I'm at Sermon Audio dot com.

Well, we only have seven minutes left for you. Before we switch over to Pastor Matt Kinnitzer. If you could burden your heart and summarize for us what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today before your segment is up.

You know, to live faithful to Christ, I think, is massively important for us to do in a life and also in the community. I'll tell you one thing I've noticed. A lot of young people, some kind of act. I'm talking about Christians.

You know, when they see evil. And they're bothered by that. And they think, sin in your own life. And I'm always thinking to myself, then again, it might simply be that we see evil being done. You know, and the word of God, we should want to.

Unfortunately, very little of it's being done. And that's why I found that in all my efforts with the magistrates over the last several years, most Christian magistrates think and govern no differently.

We're in the midst of a state out in the marketplace. Massively important to do, as well as being faithful in your home. Conducting family worship with your children. When your grandchildren are over with them.

Many of the early years of my oldest children. Many of my older children, you know, I was remiss. And in your home, you figure they know what you know. They don't come in the face. And what a difference it makes in the home.

When you sit down just for 15 minutes. You know, do it three or four times a week. In the sense of, you know, sometimes you can't do it. If you go more than a week, you notice the difference in the tone of the home.

It's so important with families. And talk about the things of God. So we go through a book at a time. Might cover one verse. Of course, when you have kids scattered from ages, you know, three up to 18.

You know, it gives interest and goodness to them, too. With our kids, that's massively important. It's under attack. And done through. That in order to strengthen the state, you have to weaken.

Amen. And once again, the website for Pastor Matt Trujillo's church is mercyseat .net. Mercyseat .net. And you also have that Defy Tyrants website. What is that again?

Defytyrants .com.

Defytyrants .com. Thank you so much, Pastor Matt Trujillo, for being such an extraordinary guest. And the next time, let's try to do a two-hour discussion. I know that your own schedule prohibited that today.

But we look forward to having you back on the program.

Thank you so much. God bless you, Chris.

God bless you, brother.

And don't go away, folks, because, as I said earlier, we are going to be entering into the second hour of the program with Pastor Matt Kennitzer, pastor of St. John's Reformed Church of Freidensburg, Pennsylvania, who will be hosting a conference with Matthew J. Trujillo this June.

And you don't want to miss all of that information. If you have a question, submit it to ChrisArnsen at gmail .com, ChrisArnsen at gmail .com. Please remember this is the longer than normal break in the middle of the show because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break because the FCC requires of them to localize this program geographically to Lake City, Florida, and therefore they have to air their own public service announcements while we air our globally heard commercials simultaneously.

So, please, use this time wisely. Write questions to Matt Kennitzer and also write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully respond to them. Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Matt Kennitzer right after these messages. We are excited to announce another new member of the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio advertising family, Banu Gadi, owner of three New York pharmacies, Lee's Drugs of Floral Park, Long Beach Chemists, and Prescription Center of Long Island in Hempstead.

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If you love Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, one of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers. One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing is Daniel P. Buttafuoco, serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the Historical Bible Society. Their mission? To foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God. They go to various churches, schools, and institutions to publicly display a rare collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by Mr. Buttafuoco demonstrating the reliability of Scripture.

To advance the cause of the Gospel, they created a beautiful, perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 King James Bible. This 17th century hand-engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full-size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of Babel and an explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the public in a large book form before. You can have your own copy of this 44-page genealogy book for a donation of $35 or more.

Visit historicalbiblesociety .org. That's historicalbiblesociety .org. Thanks for helping to keep Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air.

When Iron Sharpens Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors. It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the NASB.