WWUTT 1425 Q&A Music, Movies, and Moabites

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When it comes to pleasing the Lord or not causing others to stumble with the music we listen to or the movies we watch, where do we draw the line?

00:09

And what does Deuteronomy 23 mean by the assembly of the Lord? The answer is when we understand the text.

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This is When We Understand The Text, a daily Bible study in the word of Christ that we may be made in the image of Christ.

00:31

Tell your friends about our ministry at www .utt .com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe.

00:37

Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Do you like popcorn? I do. We've got lots of popcorn. Woo -hoo. Tell me about it.

00:43

We had a listener that gifted us with bags of Amish popcorn.

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What? Yes. Like the kernels? Yeah, kernels. Awesome. Not like the microwave bag. Right. But the real...

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Because it wouldn't be Amish, right? Yeah. Awesome. Right. Amish don't have many microwaves to...

01:00

I don't think they do. ...microwave their popcorn. That is so cool. I'm excited.

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He sent a lot of them, and so I gave one to Pastor Tom. He was standing in my office when

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I was opening it, and I said, hang on, some of this might be for you. He's like, what are you talking about? What is this? So I opened it up, and there's like rainbow popcorn.

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There's blue. I think it's called blue popcorn. And then there's regular yellow kernels of popcorn.

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But it's Amish popcorn. That's great. I can't wait to taste it. Do you know what Amish popcorn is? Not a clue. Neither do

01:34

I. I'm excited to find out. So we're going to find out. Do the Amish do their popcorn a little differently than others?

01:40

Well, I mean, rainbow. We don't usually get rainbow or blue. Right. So the kernels are different colors.

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Is the popcorn going to come out different colors? If I remember right, yes, but it's been a long time since I've seen colored popcorn, so I can't remember...

01:57

We might have to do it tonight. ...how colorful it was. So I've made this little fire pit out in the backyard.

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Or if it was something added to, you know, like frosting type of stuff, frosted. Oh, no, no.

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It's a... No, no. To the kernels. I mean, the popcorn that I saw when I was little. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. I can't remember because it was so long ago.

02:15

Okay. So I don't know. We'll find out. I built a fire pit in the backyard. Uh -huh. Isn't there like some sort of pan you hold it out over the fire and it'll pop that way?

02:24

Yeah. There is. There's campfire popcorn. Ah, there we go. I'll have to see if I can grab one of those.

02:30

Yeah, that'd be awesome. Make it an outside deal. We'll do it like the Amish. It'd be perfect right now because it's so chilly.

02:36

It is. What is this? It's a little chilly for Texas. It is. I can't say super chilly because there's people that still have snow on the ground.

02:42

So... Oh, yeah. I saw a picture of that today. Our friends back in Kansas had some snow on the ground.

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Yep. Poor guys. I don't enjoy snow. Yeah, it didn't even get above 70

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Thursday in Texas, which is weird. We're almost done with April. Yeah. Where's this cold snap coming from?

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Yeah, well, I've been told that it happens right before Easter, but this year it's a little late. Well, yeah, because Easter was right at the beginning of the month.

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Right. So, I don't know. I'm ready for this Texas heat. Everybody keeps hyping it up.

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I don't know. I don't know. I'm kind of skeptical at this point. Everybody's been saying, you want to hold off on it as long as possible.

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I'm going, bring it on. Let's do this. It's what we moved down to Texas for. I know.

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The kids are not wanting all the bugs that go with the heat, though. Oh, yeah. Our kids do not do bugs.

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They don't. I grew up in the South, and so it's like, you just got to live with the bugs. Kansas has bugs.

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Yeah. We have a lot of bugs. We had a lot of bugs in Kansas. A lot. Right. And big ones.

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Yeah. They were creepy. They're bugs. But apparently they don't, they didn't hit that age of fearfulness of bugs until we moved to Texas.

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I don't know. And then it was like, everything was new, so bugs were new. Yeah. Right. I think it was just different.

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Yeah. It's a bug in a different place. I don't know what it does. I know what it did in Kansas.

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Right. Well, we also didn't have them in February, and here we do have them in February.

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That is true. That was a little strange. Bugs year -round in Texas. The ones we called mayflies came out in June in Kansas, and here they come out in February, so apparently mayfly has nothing to do with may.

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But I understand we're supposed to get a bunch of fireflies in our backyard. So once that happens, the kids will totally be...

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If you mow. If I... Well, no. See, I'm letting the grass grow high so we get more fireflies.

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Oh, okay. That's right. There's strategy to it. Yes. I'm growing a firefly garden out back.

04:47

As long as you have a plan. This is the Friday edition of the broadcast.

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We take questions from the listeners when we understand the text at gmail .com. You know, we used to banter like this at the very beginning when we were doing an hour -long show.

05:01

We do. Yeah. We used to. And now we don't do it that long anymore. No, because I'm usually tired. You're tired.

05:06

We're in borrowed space. We are. We're not doing this at home. The kids aren't in bed. No. So... The kids are actually not...

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They're in the next room. Right. So at any moment, they're going to come knock on the door. Yes. That's what... Yeah. So we got to hustle through.

05:20

Hustle, hustle, hustle. Make sure... Yeah. Checking our watches. How long are they preoccupied? Yes. Are we at the warning light yet?

05:28

So anyway, we want to mention before getting to the first email, once again, the Wokeness in the

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Gospel Conference coming up June 11th and 12th. What was it? I thought

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I could do this off the top of my head now by this point, and I can't. I can't recall. I think it is 11th and 12th, though.

05:44

The Wokeness in the Gospel Conference is going to be at Denton Bible Church in Denton, Texas.

05:52

That's Tommy Nelson's church. June 11th and 12th. Yeah, I got that right. Yes. And you can register by going to wokenessandgospel .org.

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Great speakers, including Tommy Nelson, our own Pastor Tom Buck. Daryl Harrison is going to be there.

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Yes. Owen Strand's going to be there. Super exciting. And you can find out all the details online.

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One of the What videos that I put out a couple of weeks ago has the ad on there, too. Oh, yeah. So if you're looking for the video that mentions critical race theory and intersectionality and how the

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Bible responds to that, you've also got the Wokeness ad on there. The Wokeness in the Gospel ad.

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Wokeness ad. Don't buy into Wokeness, but do register for the

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Wokeness in the Gospel Conference. All that stuff will be online, too, by the way. If you can't make it, the videos will get on there eventually, but we'd love to see you there because we'll be there in person.

06:46

Yes. We'd love to meet you. Becky's trying. I am going to try to be there. She's going to try to be there.

06:52

We'll see. You've got seven weeks now, I think it is, to pep yourself up. Yeah, and I'm 20 weeks pregnant right now.

06:59

Yeah. So it should be interesting. First email, let's see, this comes from Luis.

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He says, good afternoon, Pastor Hughes, whatever time of day it is, you are listening. I hope you and your family are doing well.

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I have learned a lot from ministries like yours and others, and I wanted to say how grateful

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I am for what you do. Thank you, Luis. Yeah. Appreciate that. I heard you mention on one of your podcast episodes that you watch movies, but you don't like to say which ones for the sake of other brothers or sisters so that they won't stumble.

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I hope that I've quoted you right. Is that about what I've said? Yeah. I think it's about right. I don't think so. Yeah. So Becky and I enjoy, you know, sitting down, kids go to bed.

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We'll watch a movie or a TV show. If I can stay up that late anymore. If Becky can, yeah, stay awake for that. It's kind of a thing of the past at the moment.

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You've always been more tired when you're pregnant with boys, too. Yes, I sleep a lot. Yes, she does sleep a lot more.

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There's a certain sense in which she actually has more energy than when she was pregnant with the girls.

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I think it was just less grumpy. That could be it. Less estrogen.

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Yeah, I was less grumpy. Less estrogen with the boys.

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With the girls, yeah, there was a little more moodiness there. I can say that safely, right? Yeah, totally.

08:20

Okay, good. That's being very mild, in my opinion. Got it.

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She does have a little more spring in her step being pregnant with a boy, but she sleeps more.

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I do. So when she's awake, more pep, but then she has to sleep more. So we're not doing as much

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TV watching in the evening when the kids go to bed. We pretty much have half an hour, and then Becky's gone.

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But yeah, otherwise, we're good with watching TV. All that to say, our tolerance for what we know we can handle and not indulge in, like feel like we need to indulge in that sin if there's something sinful on that show.

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We're not investing ourselves in stuff that we know we shouldn't be setting before our eyes.

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Exactly. Right. Yes. So there's movies that we'll even fast forward through parts where it's awkward or whatever, or we'll get up and go to the kitchen and get stuff, and then we'll come back.

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That's been a long time, though. I can't remember the last... There was a period of time Becky and I were grabbing 80s movies that we watched.

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That's what I'm referring to. Yeah, right. A lot of those movies. Maybe we watched the TBS version or something.

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I swear we did, because I'm like, I don't recall this part at all. I don't remember that being in there. At all.

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So anyway, all that to say, we don't say what we watch because somebody else might be more sensitive to it, like if there's drinking or smoking or whatever, and they're hanging on by a thread, and then they see it, and then they want it.

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Yeah, right. They're like, well, Gabe and Becky said this was okay. Right. Right. So we don't want to endorse anything like that just in case somebody is struggling.

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Right. There was one time I mentioned a certain opera that I really liked. I was a music major.

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I loved theater. Still love theater. I would rather go to the theater than a movie, in fact.

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That would be fun. Yeah. We just don't live in the kind of place where you can go do that. And it's more expensive. Plus COVID.

10:22

Yeah, COVID. Nobody's even really doing anything anymore right now. But when I said that there was a certain opera

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I liked, and somebody emailed in after that was like, you like this opera? Do you realize there's all this spiritualism stuff that's in there?

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Yes. I'm like, see, this is why I don't talk about this. Those things that entertain me are so frivolous.

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It just doesn't matter. There's not a reason for me to. You don't cling to that. Yeah. Right. I'd rather talk about Christ than this movie that I watched and liked.

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Anyway, so Louise goes on to say, with that said, we're talking way more than he does in this email.

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Yes. With that said, I've been thinking about doing the same thing with the music I listen to for the same reasons.

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My question is this. I listen to a lot of metal that has Christian lyrics played by professing

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Christians. I'm very careful with the Christian music, though, because a lot of it is just plain bad, theologically speaking.

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Yeah. Yeah. I was in Christian radio a long time. Yeah. I could certainly give you examples. Granted, these bands

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I listen to are far from mainstream and mostly underground, so their influence to the public is almost non -existent.

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For example, after reading an interview with the lead singer from one of these groups, I learned that he is Eastern Orthodox, which is not true

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Christianity. And another vocalist in the interview from a different group said that the apocryphal books should have been left in the

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Bible, which I strongly disagree with. Yet there are other bands of the same genre that are spot on, biblically speaking.

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Where do we draw the line, so to speak, with regard to movies that we watch and music that we listen to?

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Is our decision not only based on our convictions and our conscience, but it's conscience is the word that he wants there, but on our level of Christian maturity as well.

12:14

I would appreciate any insight on this. Thank you and God bless. Well, what we've taught on this when we've talked about it is it's really like a

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Romans 14 sort of a thing where Paul says, let everyone be convinced in his own mind.

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I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean.

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That's Romans 14, 15. And of course, Paul is talking about food here or days of the week.

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As he talked about, one person esteems one day is better than another, while another esteems all days alike.

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That was another example he used earlier in verse five. But if a person is convinced that this food is clean, then eat it to the glory of God.

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If somebody is convinced that it's unclean, then don't eat to the glory of God. But be fully convinced in your own mind, for as it says in verse 23, whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats because the eating is not from faith.

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For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin. If we know it is right because God has declared it right, then we've not sinned if we partake in it.

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I mean, you've got to understand that is being said within reason. We're talking about things that are not specific in the law.

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So it's not like you can go, well, I believe sex outside of marriage is clean, so I'm going to go do it because...

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When it clearly states in the Bible that's not. Right. Yeah. Extramarital sex is sexual immorality.

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But when it comes to things that the law does not specify, and again, we're talking about conscience issues then at that point, things that pertain to Christian liberty, then what you partake in, if you are convinced that it is right, then it is good.

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And don't let anybody tell you that it's evil when you are doing it unto the glory of God. But if you partake in it and it causes somebody else to stumble,

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Paul talks about this further with the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 8, for example, if you partake in this thing and it causes someone else to stumble and they fall into sin, then you've sinned with them.

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Right. Because you have disregarded your brother, and we need to, as part of the body of Christ, to put others' needs ahead of our own,

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Philippians 2. And as Becky and I often share from Romans 15, 1 and 2, we who are strong have an obligation to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves, but for our neighbor, for his good, to build him up.

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Right. Sorry. Yeah, go ahead. I've chatted long enough here. I would just be cautious.

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Like, even though watching movies and listening to music can be a solo, like something you do by yourself, if you have other people around you, just make sure that they understand what it is in the song or in the movie that's not okay.

15:07

Right. So that way they have an understanding of, you know, this is ridiculous. Don't listen to that.

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I just like the beat. You know, just point out the obvious. So that way, like, little children is what

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I'm thinking of, or people that live in the home with you, or even a neighbor, you know, it depends on how loud your music is, because usually with metal you have it up a little bit louder, so just make sure that people understand around you that can hear it often, that whenever they start singing it, it's not going to be, oh yeah, this is what

15:41

God is, you know? This is what God's all about. Right. This is okay. You're asking where the line is, and the answer to that question really isn't, it's not, well, the line's here.

15:51

Right. Everybody's different. Yeah. Every situation is going to be different. You just have to, you have to consider these things in your own heart, and evaluate it according to, well,

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I think this might cause somebody to stumble, but this is okay. I mean, when it comes to the music I listen to, it's really a private thing.

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I listen to it in my car, I listen to it at home. I'm not fishing stuff out to people and saying, hey, listen to this.

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No, but the kids are usually around whenever you do listen. Definitely. But I'm listening to wholesome

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Christian stuff most of the time. They don't like my classical music because it doesn't have words. Yes.

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They can't sing to it. Or I'll listen to movie scores or something. Yeah. They want something that has words to it that they can sing along with.

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That's what they want. So yeah, those things that we listen to, and Becky and I have evaluated all of that, and we've even considered the lifestyle of the artist that we're playing.

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Yes, definitely. Because we don't want our kids, they know who the artists are. We don't want them latching onto that artist and then finding out something really terrible about that.

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Right. Well, sometimes on their covers. Covers are the videos that they make with the music.

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Have we had bad covers? I'm trying to think. No. I don't think we've done that. But that's because we're cautious with who we play.

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Well, true. Because, I mean, there's songs that I love to listen to still, but I don't listen to it just because I know where they are now.

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Yeah, that's true. Even some Christian artists that I played back then. Now I mentioned that I was in Christian radio, and I was playing a lot of these songs.

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Sometimes I would talk about entertainment stuff, like movies that are out there, be careful about this film, whatever.

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And so how did I reconcile it back then, 15 years ago or something? I was a host of a program that was called

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The Rock Show. It just played Christian rock music. I won some awards from that as well.

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And yet I wouldn't talk about those things that I listened to. Even those same songs that I was playing on The Rock Show, I don't talk about that as much now.

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Why not? Well, it's because I have a completely different job. At the time, I was a Christian radio DJ. That was my world.

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And you would have people that would call in and say, don't you know where rock music came from? It's the devil's music.

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Yeah, we got those callers all the time. And I would reason with them on the phone, and I would take them through scripture and help them to understand certain things.

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Because we'd never come to an agreement anytime I fielded those calls, because they're just convinced that rock music is of Satan.

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So I'm trying to say, you can redeem it. You can have Christian lyrics in this.

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No, because it's still so angry and it doesn't honor God. And that would be kind of the general argument.

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So when I was working in that field, there was a different approach to that. But now

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I'm a pastor. So as a pastor, people look at a pastor different than they look at a Christian radio

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DJ. Yes, they do. So I am mindful of the kinds of messages that I'm sending when

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I talk about stuff like that, or even in the clothing that I wear. Because I've mentioned before how

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I won't wear brands. You won't see me wearing a shirt with a brand name on it.

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Even the logos are tough to buy for you. I'm like, this is cheap. And you're like, no.

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No, I can't. I can't wear that. Even if it has the little logo there on the breast pocket on the left.

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That's what I'm talking about. Right, yeah. I don't want any brands on the clothing at all. We're not just talking about soda brands or hipster brands from back in the 80s, and now we're going retro with it or something.

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I won't wear any brands at all. Because I don't want somebody to see that and think that I'm advertising or marketing something.

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Like, for example, you hear right now about these different companies are supporting LGBTQ causes. Right. What if somebody sees me wearing a brand and thinks that's what they pick up from that?

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Right. They think, Gabe just doesn't know. He doesn't get that this is supporting that cause and he's actually supporting this by wearing it or telling people it's okay.

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So I don't wear brands at all. Now that doesn't mean I look at other people wearing brands. Right. And I'm going, well, yeah, those people are sinners.

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They need to know better. It's different for me because of the position that I have. And that's a personal conviction too.

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Right. That's what I was going to say. Yeah. And I'm not looking at my fellow pastors who are wearing brands and going, they shouldn't be doing that.

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For me, it's a personal thing. I want to be as honoring of God, even with what

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I wear and what I communicate with, what I say and do. I want to be as submissive unto the

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Lord in that as I possibly can be. And online, you are more public than a lot of pastors too.

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Yes. So you do have a lot more eyes that are judging without talking with you personally.

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Right. So. Anyway, again, all of that to say, Louise, is you're going to have to decide where that line is on your own.

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But continue to meditate on it and be with the Lord in prayer. And you can ask your pastor. Right.

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Talk to others. Receive good counsel from others. Guidance. On those kinds of things. Yeah. Definitely. Next one comes from Jason in North Carolina.

20:53

Hi, Gabe and Becky. Love the show. And I've asked questions before. I have another one. What exactly is the assembly of the

21:02

Lord mentioned in Deuteronomy 23? In verse three, it says no

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Moabite may enter the assembly of the Lord first, even to the 10th generation and later forever.

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David was only a few generations from Ruth, a Moabite woman. And so wouldn't

21:21

Jesus also be in that line? Thanks again. Jason. All right. Let me go to Deuteronomy 23 here.

21:30

Didn't have this set up. Oh, hey, I turned right to it. Look at there. Yay. Deuteronomy 23, beginning in verse one.

21:36

Sorry. Let me skip to verse two. You can go read verse one yourself to find out why

21:42

I skipped that. Okay. Deuteronomy 23. One. No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the

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Lord, even to the 10th generation. None of his descendants may enter the assembly of the

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Lord. No Ammonite or Moabite may enter the assembly of the

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Lord, even to the 10th generation. None of them may enter the assembly of the

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Lord forever. Exactly what Jason was quoting there, because they did not meet you with bread and with water on the way when you came out of Egypt.

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And because they hired against you, Balaam, the son of Beor, from Pether of Mesopotamia, to curse you.

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The story of Balaam and his donkey talk to him. Oh, yeah. That's the Balaam we're talking about here.

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So he came out to curse Israel. This is in Numbers. I want to say chapters 22 to 24.

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I'm pretty sure it's this section. He came out on behalf of the king of the Moabites to curse

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Israel so that the Moabites would be able to conquer the Israelites. But when Balaam did that, he ended up blessing them three times.

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And said to the king, when the king was horrified, what are you doing? And Balaam says,

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I can only say what God puts in my mouth to say. Balaam was a wicked man, but he could only do what

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God put in his mouth for him to do. And while the king of the Moabites intended for him to curse the

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Israelites, he instead blessed them. But Balaam was hired to curse the Israelites. He was hired by the

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Moabites to do that. But the Lord your God would not listen to Balaam. Instead, the

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Lord your God turned the curse into a blessing for you because the Lord your

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God loved you. You shall not seek their peace or their prosperity all your days forever.

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You shall not abhor an Edomite, for he is your brother. Those are the descendants of Esau. You shall not abhor an

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Egyptian, because you are a sojourner in his land. This is talking back to Joseph, Jacob and his sons, when they came into the land of Egypt and were sojourners there before they were enslaved by them.

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Verse eight, children born to them in the third generation may enter the assembly of the

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Lord. So what about the Moabites here? It says that the Moabites cannot enter the assembly of the

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Lord to the 10th generation. None of his descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord even forever.

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Yet you have Ruth, who is a Moabite. So what about there? Well there are exceptions to this.

24:19

I was going to say. Now, what were you going to say? No, I was just going to say she's an exception because she's considered holy.

24:26

Yeah, that's right. Well, not holy as in God, but like favored. Yeah, she was redeemed.

24:32

She had a kinsman redeemer and that was Boaz. So she was married to either

24:39

Mallon or Chilian. Who was she married to first? Mallon. Mallon. Where do you get that? I looked it up.

24:47

See, I'm trying to get it from my Bible. You cheated by going to Google. I did. I totally went to Google.

24:54

I don't understand the text, folks. It says Ruth 410. Ruth 410. Oh. Yeah, you're not far enough.

25:00

Oh. So I would have had to go on to the last chapter to figure this out. Apparently. Okay. Ruth 410.

25:06

Also Ruth the Moabite, the widow of Mallon. Okay, that's where that comes from. Got it. I'm trying to find it in the first chapter and it wasn't in there.

25:13

It just says Mallon and Chilian and they were married to two women. One was Ruth and the other was Orpah. Yeah, sorry.

25:19

I cheated. Yeah. Thanks. You're welcome. Showing me up, babe. Now, see, that's complementarianism because where I was weak, you were strong.

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That's how that goes. Oh, please. So anyway, Ruth was first married to Mallon and then he got sick and died.

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But she united herself with Mallon's mother, of course, who was Naomi. And they returned to Naomi's land.

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Ruth, long story short, it's not that long. It's just four chapters. But she falls in love with Boaz.

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They get married. And because of the relationship to families, Boaz becomes her kinsman redeemer.

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And so there you go. Yeah. He's the kinsman in the connection with that particular family.

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She is redeemed by means of the law. But we have

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Christ, who is the fulfillment of the law, who, of course, is born in the line of Boaz and Ruth.

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David comes from this line. And that's the way Ruth closes. Now, these are the generations of Perez.

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Perez fathered Hezron. Hezron fathered Ram. Ram fathered Aminadab. Aminadab fathered

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Nashon. Nashon fathered Salmon. Salmon fathered Boaz. Boaz fathered Obed. Obed fathered

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Jesse. And Jesse fathered David. So David's born in the line here.

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And here we have Ruth having been redeemed. Yes. So she's no longer unqualified as one who could be in the assembly of the

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Lord. Right. And then back up to his first question, which was, what is the...

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What is the assembly of the Lord? So the assembly of the Lord in this case is gathered

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Israel. And it's gathered Israel for the intent and the purpose of worship at Mount Sinai, and then what would be the tabernacle, and then what would eventually be the temple.

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And this goes back to verse one, which I did not read. But it says that he cannot enter the assembly of the

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Lord. So it's Israel gathered together for worship. So there were people kicked out of church?

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You got to go back to verse one. It'll explain everything. It had to do with ceremonial cleanliness in this particular case.

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And the Moabites are always ceremonially unclean. But God in his mercy and his grace redeems and cleanses

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Ruth. Amen. And so that even from her line would come David, and from that line would come

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Christ. Which means you can clean anybody. Anybody, right. There is no one who is unqualified from coming to the assembly of God in Christ Jesus.

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That is our access to God. Yes. You don't get access to the Lord any other way. There used to be a time where in the tabernacle, in the temple,

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Gentiles could only go so far. Even a Gentile couldn't go to this particular place.

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But that dividing wall of hostility, as it says in Ephesians 3, has been broken down by the precious blood of Christ.

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So now all of us can come into the presence of God. We are all in the assembly of God. Yes. Through Jesus Christ, our

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Lord. Amen. That's our show for today. That was very short. Any other questions you have, you can email them to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

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Hope you enjoyed our chatting for most of that. There's another one that I have on here, but it's going to take a little bit longer.

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And I think it works better as a blog anyway. Oh, okay. So if you want to check out my blog, go to pastorgabe .com.

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This question that I'm not responding to, which is actually a criticism. Oh, okay. And you know, I don't often respond to criticisms. No, you don't.

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But this one, it was just too, I couldn't resist. Even if somebody's baiting me here,

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I'm taking it because I wanted to respond to this one. All right. It'll come up maybe this weekend, maybe next week.

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You'll just have to check it out at pastorgabe .com. Let's close with prayer. Yes, let's. Heavenly Father, we thank you for our time together.

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We thank you for your word that gives us everything that we need for life and godliness and walking in a way that is pleasing unto the

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Lord. We've come to know the gospel through your word that Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, rose again from the grave so that all who believe in him will not perish, but we will have everlasting life.

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Help us to understand what this means to live according to the good news of this message of the gospel and give us courage and boldness to share it with others that they may know the good news of Christ, be forgiven their sins and live, escaping the judgment of God that is to come against this wicked and perverse generation.