Scott Farrar Interview

Interviewing Scott Farrar and the Purpose of the Sunday School Conversation

Welcome to No Compromise Radio Ministry. My name is Mike Apendraw, and today we have a special show for you. I was teaching adult Sunday school here at Bethlehem Bible Church for Pastor Steve. Steve was doing some elder training, and I thought I would interview a man named Scott Farah, who's been an elder here a couple times.

He's a deacon now and a dear friend of mine. And so today I'm going to interview Scott Farah with the purpose of trying to encourage the congregation and talk about the Lord's work in the lives of people here at Bethlehem Bible Church.

So enjoy the interview with Scott Farah. Well, it's 859 and so we will get going. That shows 901, that shows 859, and the iPad shows nine o 'clock, so we go with that.

I.

Remember the old days with daylight savings time. Had to make sure all the clocks were changed before you went to bed, and now with the iPhone you just trust it. You walk by faith and not by sight.

It's sad.

Well, Pastor Steve is teaching in my office a group of men, elder training, and I said I'd love to fill in for him. I thought, what am I going to do for Sunday school? Back in the day when I got here in 1997, we had elder prayer at 8 o 'clock, and then 9 o 'clock I taught Sunday school, 10 o 'clock I preached, 6 o 'clock I preached, and then I went home and went to bed.

I thought to myself, this is gonna be so great. I could read theological books at night after I preach, and I would just sit there and watch VHS formatted Ken Burns Civil War series. That's all I could get.

Get done.

And so I thought, well, what should we do today for Sunday school? And I thought, you know what? I'm gonna interview Scott Farah. Kind of like if you were sitting in on a no-compromise radio interview in my studio.

I've interviewed lots of folks at the church from probably Bruce Binney to John Makarovsky. Have you been on the radio? I have not asked you. You have.

But.

Okay, and what would you say?

Maybe.

Well, welcome to No Compromised Radio Ministry. My name is Mike Haven, you're on your own today. I thought I'd ask him some questions to maybe encourage you, talk about ministry, longevity in ministry, stuff like that, get to know Scott a little bit better, and praise the Lord for some of his gifts, including people, as Ephesians 4 would talk about.

So I'm gonna pray, and we'll get going. Father, I thank you for this day, and your mercies are certainly new every morning. We need sleep, and we get tired, and we get sick, but you never change. Always strong, always faithful, and making sure that your kingdom will come, and that the Lord Jesus return is certain and secure.

We look forward to that day. In the meantime, I pray that you would use this Sunday school to encourage the folks, and let them get to know Scott a little bit better. For Christ's sake, amen. Well, if you don't know Scott Farah, welcome.

Thank you. This is Scott Farah. You know what, maybe we should start off this way. Can you give us your testimony, how you got saved? Sure, not exciting.

Whoop, this chair's a little.

Rocky. That's why you got that one. I got this one.

All right, so anyway, here's my story. I was just starting off by saying this. I came out of the womb with a fear of human beings that was irrational. I was afraid of everybody, and.

I.

Lived in a religious home, and I noticed I said religious and not Christian home. My dad was a bivocational pastor. Went to two bad seminaries, two liberal seminaries. He was a Baptist and Methodist pastor, bivocational, like I said.

So I really grew up thinking I was in, just because I just ride those coattails. But the funny thing is, or the odd thing was, at age seven my parents got divorced, and that depression that I had about just being really irrationally fearful of human beings just ratcheted up.

And I just went through a lot of struggles my, all my years, right into teen years, just really not fitting in quite honestly with folks. And I lived with my mom, and six weeks before I graduated from high school, my mother died.

And it was a real shock, and I don't believe I'll see her in heaven, quite honestly. We didn't know the gospel. Never had it articulated to us, to my knowledge and all that. So, but the one, it was a watershed moment in my life where it was time to grow up, Scott.

And so I just, you know, started to mature a bit and converse with people. And about a year later, Billy Graham crusade came to Boston. And we can debate the merits of Billy Graham, but I will just say this.

My dad, who still wasn't a believer, who thought he was, went to the counseling sessions and got saved. And he met a guy named Bob Bowman, Pastor Bob Bowman. Anyway, I went forward at the Billy Graham crusade one night just to please my dad.

But it was really my first introduction to, I got the gospel, I mean the, the book of John, and I started reading the Bible for the first time in my life. And then shortly after that, we started going to Bethlehem Baptist Church with Bob Bowman.

And Bob articulated the gospel, and was such a wonderful, sweet man and all that. And the Lord saved me.

So that's the story. That's wonderful. How long have you been attending then, Bethlehem Bible Church?

I'm thinking about 1982, 1983. So about 40 years, I guess we've been here. I had hair back then, and it wasn't gray.

Staying at One Church for Decades

Well, I'm jumping ahead, but I think it's apropos. So many people are church hoppers these days, right? When I meet someone and they visited the, they're visiting BBC, oh, how'd you find out about the church?

Oh, we used to go to such-and-such church, and that's no good, and they do this, that, and the other. Sometimes it's legit. But in my mind, I'm thinking, they're gonna leave here in three years, too.

And hop from one to another, another kind of consumer-like. How have you been able to stay at one church for so long?

Easy. You.

Well, I mean, in all seriousness, I met Mike when he came here and candidated in February of 1997.

Valentine's weekend. It was. Yes. I remember I preached a really bad Valentine's sweetheart banquet message.

I will say one thing. He had big hair. And Kim, you had bigger hair.

Anyway, I knew the moment I met you, shook your hand for the first time, introduced myself, I knew right then and there that you were gonna be a friend of mine and a friend for life. I just knew it instinctively then.

And so quite honestly, the transformation of my life in terms of my faith and my thought process and what I believe and my friendship with you and how you've challenged me, where else would I go?

Well, maybe we should just pray right now.

And I believe anybody that's here with longevity would say the same thing. And they love Pastor Mike. I love Pastor Mike. It's easy.

We should do this more often.

I.

Remember meeting you. I think we were right over by that door. And of course at the time there was no carpet. And I think the ceiling was unfinished as well. No air conditioning or anything like that.

No upstairs. And you said to me something like if you become the pastor, what should I call you? And what was my response?

Like, Hi Holy Father.

Hi Holy Father. So for years, God has called me Hi Holy Father behind the scenes. I appreciate that. I think you said to me, if you become the pastor, how long will you stay? And if memory serves, I think I said, I think I'll guarantee you ten years.

Yeah, that sounds right. I'm so glad it's 27 and counting. Let's go for another 27. I hate to correct you, but it's 28.

Is it?

97,.

2024. Andrew, where are you?

Maybe I'm wrong. Okay. It doesn't matter. I'll stick to preaching the Bible. I won't be the mathematician. But back to staying at a church. There have been trials in the last 40 years and ups and downs and everything else.

What's your mindset as you think about things biblically? Walking by faith, thinking long-term, grass is greener down the street at other churches. Just kind of what's your biblical mindset through that?

Well, first of all, I don't believe the grass is greener anywhere else. That's the first thing I would say. Bible teaching churches are hard to find. They may claim that they are, but true Bible teaching churches are hard to find.

The thing that's so wonderful to me to watch you and watch the elders over the years that I have is the firmness of your belief in the Word of God, and it's unshaking. And no matter the circumstance or the trial, I've never seen an elder in this church balled up in the corner of a room concerned about what's going to happen tomorrow.

I have supreme confidence in the Word, and you guys just preach the Word, and you live it out. And so it's easy, I believe, as a layman in the church, it's easy to say those men are easy to follow. And so whether it was year one, 1997, or 2024, my mindset in that regard hasn't changed.

So I don't know if I really answered your question.

No, that's good. Scott, I think you were one of the first folks to pull me aside one day, and I thought it was gonna be a nice conversation, and you kind of got after me. And in love, you don't remember, but I do.

I think I remember. Yeah, and you were just trying to help me not overcommit, and if I say one thing about meeting with people, I should, and everything else.

Talk to me. Yeah, well.

You're a little bit older than me, but we're about, you know, similar ages. I am your high holy father. That's right. That's, that's correct. But you know, we have, our kids are run this, you know, same ages and all that, and you know this as a leader in the church, and I think, folks, you probably don't realize this, I would say, as all of us as lay people.

We think that what the elders do is just what you see here on Sundays, and it's a lot harder than you think, and when you have a church this size, people have issues. You just don't know about it. I don't know about it, and it's hard work, and what was the question now?

I was leading to a point. When you rebuke me. Oh. In love, yes.

I know, because what I was gonna say is, we were young dads at the same time, and ministry can gobble you up 168 hours a week, and there was a time, you may not talk about it, but there was a time in the life of this church where we were consumed by what was going on in the church, and man, it can own you, and so I was just trying to say to you, watch it.

You have young kids, right, and my kids are all grown up and gone, and now I'm a grandpa, and so are you, and time marches on, and we know it, and I was just trying to say to you, like I would say to anybody, embrace these days that your kids are there, and you can have influence on them, because in the blink of an eye, they're gonna be gone, so if that was a rebuke, that was really an encouragement.

That's all it was meant to be.

Anytime, I'll take that advice from you. Speaking of which, being a dad and a grandpa, I watch you as a dad, and I watch you as a grandfather. Any wisdom that you can give to the folks here, maybe young, young parents, young grandparents of things that you've done the hard way, learned the hard way, excelled in, failed at, wish you could go back to do, glad that by God's grace you did such and such.

Yeah, I mean, I think, unfortunately, most of us that have kids, our first child was our guinea pig, and I feel, you know, I think, maybe we feel bad for those guinea pigs, because in my case, I was exuberant to train and discipline my oldest son, Doug, and it was all wrong.

He would do something wrong, and I would, in anger, discipline him, and so one of my biggest regrets is just the way I disciplined him in particular, and just for the, for the tape, for the purposes of the tape, I didn't beat my kids, but I'm just saying, really was harsh, very quick, anger, and so the one thing I would say to any parent, especially a dad, is to balance being hard and soft at the same time, and what I mean by that is, hard, when your kids are disobeying, you need to take care of it.

You need to root out that childish disobedience as quickly as possible, and as consistently as possible, and so I always say, don't let it go, you see it, you need to address it immediately. On the other hand, this, when I would discipline my kids, as I got a little bit more mature, and the way I disciplined my kids was, dad needs a timeout before we do any discipline, because I wanted to reflect, I wanted to pray, I wanted to get myself in the right mindset, so that when I disciplined my child, there was no anger, first of all, and actually, it allowed me, I actually got emotional about it, and was actually most times in tears, but I knew I was still going to inflict the punishment on the child, and while the child is crying, I'm crying too, and I think it really created a bond, and I, and, and, and the reason why I think that really helped, is my, the child would realize, in my case, my kids would say, I don't want to disappoint dad, and so I think it bonded us together in a lot of ways, and helped them turn, in terms of future disobedient times, because they knew that they were going to get it, in some ways, but at the same time, that it really kind of hurt me to want to do that, I, because I didn't want to do it, but to, to need to do it, so I'm just saying, I just think you need to be consistent, and loving through the process, and never harsh, and I started off being way too harsh.

Sorry, I'm really, it bothers me sometimes to this day, but yeah, that's one thing that I've learned.

Serving in the Church with Your Gifts

Well, thanks for being open and honest. Scott, I'm looking at 1st Peter chapter 4, and it's interesting, because it says, the end of all things is at hand, therefore, right, the world's going to end, the Lord could come back any time, what, what do we do?

Be self-controlled, sober-minded, for the sake of your prayers, keep loving one another earnestly, since love covers a multitude of sins, show hospitality to one another without grumbling, and then this is what I want to talk about now, as each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God's buried grace.

Over the years, I don't know if you know this, Scott has been everything from a chair setter-upper, that's a technical term, to an elder, and what's your philosophy of ministry here, because sometimes in churches, it's the 80 -20 rule, right, 20 of the people do 80 of the work, there are some people that, to this day, they attend Bethlehem Bible Church, and they leave, and they don't have any ministry behind the scenes, and so what's your philosophy of serving and ministry?

I've actually been an elder here twice, believe it or not. Oh, I forgot, we kicked you out that first time.

Kicked me out the second time.

No, it was before you were here. I mean, I had really no business, I was in my late 20s as an elder here, and, but we were a congregational rule, and very weak in terms of leadership and all that, including me, but I probably shouldn't have been one.

Here's this thing I'll say about me. I was an elder, and I was very, I may say this, proud to be an elder, really pleased to work with you folks for the time that I did, but I'll just say this, in my particular case, you know, know your lane, and when I was an elder in the early 2000s, we had Mike Abendroth, Steve Cooley, Lewis Brown, Dave Jeffries, like Mount Rushmore, and.

Me, and maybe a couple other guys. They want to tear down Mount Rushmore now. I know,.

Unfortunately. But anyway, I felt honestly like I didn't live up to the standard to be an elder, in terms of really when it came down to the biblical standard, 1st Timothy 3, and Titus 1, preaching and teaching, while I've done it, I just feel like it's not my spot.

I thought at one time it would be, but the point is this, I've just, I know my lane. I'm happy to serve. I'm a deacon now in this church, and it sort of fits me, because I like to serve, and I like to serve in ministries that are kind of behind the scenes, and so everyone needs to serve.

I'm sometimes surprised that we don't have folks that serve more, and I know you just said the 80 -20 rule, folks come and all that, but I'd encourage everybody, if you don't have a ministry in this church, we need help in various places.

We need help stacking chairs on Sundays. If anything happened to the few guys that we have that stack these chairs routinely, we'd be in serious trouble, and so something as simple as that. But anyway, the point is I love to serve, and I actually like to be kind of that behind-the-scenes guy, truthfully, and so it fits me perfectly, and because I just really feel like I don't, I'm not in the class theologically with, you know, those four guys.

Two of them are gone, of course, but I just don't belong.

Well, that's so interesting to me, Scott, because you're in public, kind of quiet, and behind the scenes, you'd like to serve in the background, and then you open your mouth here, and you just begin teaching and leading, and I know you've preached in the pulpit here before, and I think Scott Ferris should teach more often, don't you?

What's going on?

Maybe if they heard me, they, again, they may think otherwise.

Maybe, Scott, some people don't serve because they don't think they're great at serving, or that they have sin in their life still, and they don't want to serve. Certainly, if that was the case, no one could serve, so what would you say to people who maybe don't think they can serve as well as they should?

How would you encourage them to dip their toe in the lake of serving?

Well,.

There's so many things that folks can do in terms, like I just mentioned the chair ministry. That really wasn't an advertisement, although if you're interested, come and see me, but I'm saying, I imagine everybody in this room is probably physically capable, especially if you're male, and again, this is not an advertisement.

I'm saying it's simple as stacking and unstacking chairs. It takes some sacrifice. Are you willing to sacrifice, first of all? Are you willing to come here on Saturday nights, oftentimes? That's when these guys stack the chairs, Sunday nights, when church is over.

Are you willing to do that little extra work? And so, some of the tasks that are vital to this church aren't difficult in nature, and are things that you do in everyday life, and so, in terms of what you have to do, not very difficult, and then you can aspire to do more and more things, and serve in manners that you thought were never possible, so,.

I don't know, probably not a great answer. No, I think it's a perfect answer, and don't you think, in addition, you're not really stacking chairs, you're serving the Lord Jesus. That's right. Right? It's the ultimate goal.

It's not, we're changing diapers in the nursery, we're serving the Lord out of gratitude for our salvation. Well, and go back to the chair ministry, right?

I mean, these chairs aren't here on Sunday morning, and we have a problem. The chairs aren't gone for co-op on Monday, or Wednesday night for Iwana, or the chairs aren't set up for the men's breakfast and tables yesterday.

There's a problem. So, for the, just the function, proper function of this church, things need to be done, and a lot of things need to be done that people don't know about, and so, anyway, grateful for the guys that we have, and but if you want a place to serve, let us know.

Well, you know, we had a Harvest Festival, I think it was last fall, and we had a little booth up, opportunities to serve in the church. We got one response, and only one response with all the folks there, so maybe we need to do a better job in terms of the church leaders identifying things, and put it in the bulletin, or send out a BBC announces of places where we need folks to serve.

Suffering Well and Leading Through Trials

Scott, years ago, my mother, who you knew, was dying of cancer, yeah, I think it was 15 years ago, 18 years ago now, and you pulled me to the side, and you remember the conversation? What'd you say to me, and why'd you say it?

Because it's affected me, and impacted me to a large degree, and I say it to people now all the time, and I'll talk about that after you. Yeah.

Your mother was a dear lady, Carla, and she would come and visit here a number of times, and just a sweet, sweet lady. Speaking of big hair, yeah, that's right. I wish I had hair.

I'll take any kind. Anyway,.

So when we heard the news that your mother was dying, and all that, you know, leaders need to lead, and they need to be examples, and so my simple purpose in telling you that, or encouraging you in that regard, is there's a resolve in this ministry, right?

You're going through a health issue right now. It doesn't deter you from the ministry of this church. It may have an impact on you personally, and wear you down, and all that, but you're faithfully in the pulpit ministry, and faithfully serving in this church.

It doesn't slow you down, so the elders in the church have this resolve. Again, we talked about it a minute ago. They're not balled up in the corner. They're faithful to the text. They live it out, and all I was trying to say to you is, you know, we're all a bunch of sheep here, and we scatter very easily, and but you're the shepherd, and you're the leader, and all that, and I was just trying to encourage you to lead in a way that you know that in spite of this, you have great faith.

God hasn't fallen off the throne because your mother has cancer. The word is still sure, and faithful, and live it out. So that was really simply all it was. Live it. Be an example to folks so that we can all learn.

I remember when Scott said that to me, and I think his words were something like, suffer well. People are watching.

Yeah, that's right.

And I thought, you know, that was so important for me to hear, and even for all of you when you go through trials, other Christians are watching, and I'll take all the motivation I can to obey. Right?

I'd like to obey the Lord. Of course, not to be saved, or to stay saved, but just out of gratitude, and I want to have fruit and evidence, and live a holy life, and a godly life. So whatever help I can get to do that is encouraged.

And so when you said people are watching, that really helped me to not just have a pity party at home, or just like you said, be balled up in the corner. It was okay. We still have to serve with a tear in our eye, and many times I've said to people, even at this church, oh, you're going through this health trial.

You have cancer. You have this. You have that. Going through a difficult time with your mother, with Alzheimer's, or whatever it might be, people are watching. And so with Christians attitudes, we still could have joy.

Right? There can be sadness. There can be pain. There can be grief. I think of the word to be bereaved. It means to be ripped. Our hearts can be ripped in half, but we still can have joy, and real joy.

So I thank you for that. And what Abendroth does is he gets advice from other people. Abendroth eyeses it and tells other people. So I've said that to so many people in the last 10 years. People are watching, so suffer well.

Marriage, Friendship, and Serving a Wife Well

All right. Let's see. What else do I have? Secrets of staying married for so long. I watch you, and I watch Cindy. What a great lady Cindy is. I mean, I kind of knew her. But when she was out helping for Haley's wedding, I just thought, Cindy Ferret is a great lady.

Just the way she acts, and she's not ruffled. And I guess the secret is marry somebody like her. But any other thoughts? I mean, and one of the reasons I say this is because there are some marriages here at the church that, you know, struggle behind the scenes.

And maybe there's some encouragement you could give them.

Cindy's a wonderful person. We're human. I guess we've had struggles, too. But she's a great encouragement to me because, as I told you, what my personality, pre-salvation, even in post-salvation in terms of being a little bit shy around folks, she just has this like quiet confidence.

And even after, I'm trying to think how long.

I'm the one supposed to be bad with math.

37 years of marriage.

I'm still learning from her. And she's not afraid to do anything, quite honestly. She's, we have a shed out in the backyard, and her dad, when he was still alive, they're out there, two of them, hammering, building the shed and all that.

And so she's not afraid to do anything where I'm a little bit timid about stuff. I do stuff, but a little bit timid and all that.

But I.

Try to compliment her in areas where I think I have some strengths, and maybe she has some weaknesses. She doesn't have very many. I have quite a few. But I just try to compliment her, quite honestly, in areas that maybe I see that I can help her to be successful.

Because I feel like if I can, you know, in areas where our spouses are deficient, we don't have to point it out. We just do it, kind of thing. It just, it continues to allow them to flourish in things that they are truly gifted in.

And so, I don't tell her I love her enough.

We pray.

Somewhat routinely, but not routinely enough. I'm just being completely honest. But I try to serve her as much as possible. I mean, I know Steve Cooley does this in an extraordinary fashion. I try to open the car doors for her, and house doors for her.

I can't say it's 100 of the time, but I try to do it nearly 100 of the time. I want to honor her, and because she's worthy of it. And I think all of you guys that have spouses, your wives are worthy of it.

And I don't know if that's an encouragement at all. You're probably all doing that. But I'm just saying, look for ways, step back, and look for ways where your wife could really use some help. And don't necessarily verbalize it.

Just do it.

So.

Wonderful. How do you think BBC has changed over the years since you've been here? Forty years? Anything that kind of sticks out?

Well, Bob Bowman, as I said, was the pastor here when we first got here. A wonderful man. We were congregational ruled, preached out of the NIV. Bob had kind of, you know, a more of an Arminian approach, Arminian approach.

And I think later in life, as we saw him his last few years at BBC, he just embraced the ministry of BBC. So I think we were just really kind of a weak church, quite honestly. But no disrespect to Bob and his preaching style or anything like that.

He's just a wonderful, wonderful man. But, you know, I loved when you came here in 1997. I hope you don't mind me saying this. You said, I'm gonna give this one year. We're gonna teach, we're gonna preach out of the NIV for one year, and then we're changing.

And he goes, and the next thing we're changing, and I so love this, is we're getting away from congregational rule, and this is gonna be an older ruled church. And so, and we embraced like doctrines of grace and, you know, kind of the sovereignty of God in this church.

And that's the focal point. And we have such a high view of God. And I think those are the kind of the things that kind of leap out at me, where we were and where we are now. And so for 27 years, that's the way it's been here.

There's been no change because the canon's complete. There's no new discovery here. And so it's been 27 years of that kind of fidelity. It's been wonderful.

I forgot when I got here, it was NIV in the pulpit, in the pew. And so I was taught in seminary that you're not supposed to make a lot of changes the first year. And I think I obeyed that advice somewhat, but we kept the NIV for the first year.

So we were NIV positive for a year. Actually, the NIV 78 -84 is pretty good. I mean the new NIV, the 2011, I think is atrocious. But when I find an old NIV, which they don't make anymore, I think that wasn't too bad.

But I thought the NAS, and I still think the NAS is better for expositional preaching. I mean if you want to read the NIV at home or something, fine. One of the main reasons why the New American Standard sells less than the New International Version is because many countries that speak English don't think the Americans set the standard in anything.

And so even the name New American Standard. I did remember though, Scott, that Lenita Schaefer was the secretary, and it was my first Sunday here. Remember the first day I got here was April 2nd with Kim, Haley, and little Luke, and it had snowed 30 inches on April 1st.

I.

Thought that might have been an omen not to move to New England. And we were staying with the Tebow's and Lenita said to me, you know, we're putting in these focus on the family brochures in the bulletin, little inserts every week.

And of course they have some good advice. But just overall, I was in that mode of psychology and integration and the Bible sufficient. And she said, why don't I just take them out and see what happens?

I said, okay, I'll blame you. And so she took that out. And nobody said a word until three years later when we're having the big split, and it was the first day you were here, you took those things out.

Speaking of church splits, I don't know if the congregation knows this, but it was 1999 -2000-ish, and there were two elders, myself and another man, and we were having some problems, and there was, you know, a big church split.

Everything was happening. You said to me, I'm going to talk to the people who are involved, and then I'll decide what to do. Okay, maybe it wasn't that crass, but you just didn't want to say, well, I'm Mike's friend, so I'm going to side with Mike.

Right? That was essentially it. Is that true? You're looking up. Maybe you've got a different story to this. But all that to say, afterward, this is what I was trying to get to, afterward, I thought to myself, humanly speaking, if it wasn't for Scott Farah, I would not be at Bethlehem Bible Church.

Because I needed encouragement. I needed a friend. I needed somebody else to go out and investigate, take the hits, do things, encourage behind the scenes. And so, if you are glad I'm here, you can thank the Lord for Scott Farah.

If you are not, well, that's another story.

Maybe I said it. I surely, I mean, I always instinctively knew that, because I knew some of those folks, I just instinctively knew that Mike Abendroth, that I know, wouldn't have done anything that would have been disqualifying or anything like that.

So, when you made that comment that said, I wanted to find out, it was more, if you want to know the truth, it was on a mission to really root those people out, quite honestly. You know what I thought, you know, when I look back at that, that this, to me, is just like so great to me.

We had opposition in this church, and that was just trying to rile things up, and I just remember our response. It's like Christ, you know, the prophecy about Him in Isaiah 53, you know, like a lamb before the shearer is silent, so he uttered not a word.

We just, the thing that I loved about this church is, while we were dealing with stuff on the side, the purpose and the focus of ministry never changed, and to me, that was like, when I think of that verse and all that, to me, that was like the ultimate mic drop.

Boom. Because we did not deter from the truth, and again, didn't cower. You didn't cower. Preach the word faithfully every week, and I just feel so vindicated, and even, you know, all these years later, just vindicated that an angry mob of a small faction of people, and you know, gossip is a bad thing, and when you start doing that kind of thing, and you start getting people together, and all of a sudden, you get in mass, just bad, bad, bad.