Saturday Special: Q&A Cessationism, Marriage Advice, and Anointing with Oil

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What is cessationism and what are some biblical passages that support it? What sort of marriage books would

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Becky and I recommend? And if you get anointed with oil, will that heal you of your diseases?

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The answers to these questions, when we understand the text. Welcome to a

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Saturday special edition of when we understand the text. Looking at the world through the lens of God's word.

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That we may love what is good and abhor what is evil. Please tell others about our ministry at www .utt

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.com. Here once again is Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. Kind of flipping things around this week.

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A little juggling. Yeah. We're going from the Q &A on Friday, we've stuck it on Saturday instead.

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Yeah, surprise. Because that's when I can get Becky in here. Yes. And a couple of these emails we're looking at today specifically mention you.

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Oh, okay. So I couldn't leave you out. Aw. Had to have you in here on this. Awesome. So yeah, so the stuff that I would have done for a

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Saturday special, that was on Friday instead. Uh -huh. And now we're doing the Q &A a little late on a Saturday.

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And you know, when we were on the broadcast and we were saying, hey, bring on the Texas heat, which was a little slow to get to us this year.

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It was. There were people that were making fun of us and saying, you don't want that. Yeah. You don't want to call on that early for the

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Texas heat to come on you. They're like, you're going to regret it. Well, the Texas heat is here. It is.

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But it can stay outside. Yeah, well. It's in this room. It is. It's very warm.

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I'm all right with it being outdoors. Yeah. But this is a hot room. This is a very hot room.

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In our room. We got our personal sauna. We're both kind of glistening.

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I sparkle. Becky sparkles. I sweat. So in our little closet at the church where we've been doing this broadcast, the air is just not running in here right now.

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No. So we are quite warm. Another reason to keep this at a half an hour.

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Yes, definitely. Won't go past our usual half hour here. So on the

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Friday edition, typically the Friday edition, we take questions from the listeners, and you can send those questions to when we understand the text at gmail .com.

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The Friday is on Saturday right now. This first question comes from Michael. He says, hey,

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Pastor Gabe, my name is Mike. And I have recently gotten into a discussion with a couple of Christian friends regarding cessationism.

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My question is, what are some biblical evidences for cessationism?

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I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Well, cessationism is the idea. It's the understanding that the apostolic miraculous spiritual gifts came to an end at the conclusion of the apostolic era, which would have been with the death of the

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Apostle John at the end of the first century. Right, because he was the last one who passed away. That's right.

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So he didn't die. He didn't die a martyr, but he died of old age, had spent some of his life as an exile.

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So it wasn't like his life was a picnic, but died of old age in what is modern day

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Turkey, likely Ephesus is what church history holds. So when John died, the miraculous gifts that we saw exercise through the apostles, particularly in the book of Acts, came to an end.

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Now, some say it was even earlier than that, but rather it was just in that 40 year period between Jesus ascension into heaven and the destruction of the temple.

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Some even go that far. Then there are what are called practical cessationists.

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And Paul Washer, I know, is one of those who calls himself a practical cessationist. And that is that the regularity of the miraculous apostolic gifts, like we see in the

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New Testament, came to a conclusion with the death of the Apostle John. But the Holy Spirit may still do those miracles in the world today, perhaps like a group of people in a very primitive part of the world who have not yet heard the gospel.

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Nobody even knows their language, but a missionary is able to get there and the Holy Spirit blesses that missionary with an ability to speak in that people group's tongue so that they may hear the gospel.

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Or working through those missionaries to do miraculous signs, affirming that the message that is coming to them is truly from God.

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And that was the purpose of the miraculous signs, so that it would be known that this message that the apostles were preaching came not from man, but from God.

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Once the gospel had gone out into the world, then there wasn't a need for the regularity of those miraculous spiritual gifts.

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Now, I'm a cessationist. Whether or not I'm a practical cessationist or an ardent cessationist,

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I really don't know. It would kind of be like catch me in the season. I know that Tom is an absolute cessationist in the sense that he doesn't think that the miraculous spiritual giftings are continuing after that first century at all.

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Pastor Tom Buck? Yeah, Pastor Tom Buck. He's the guy. Now I've just gotten to the point where I just think anytime

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I mention Tom, everybody automatically knows who I'm talking about. We might have a new listener. That's true.

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We could. I'm just catching him up. It's all good. So you don't know who I'm talking about. He's never been on the program before. No. But yeah,

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I just talk about him like he's a thing, like he's here. He's not. He's on vacation right now.

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He is. So anyway, so there's kind of the thing of cessationism. Now, when I started, when we understand the text,

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I was not a cessationist. And it was something I ended up walking back about a year or two after I began the podcast.

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I went back to a question that I got in the first year and answered it in my second year because I answered it two different ways.

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In the first year, I spoke positively toward what's called continuationism. And that's the idea that the miraculous spiritual gifts are still occurring even to this day in just about every charismatic and Pentecostal church that's out there.

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Right. Now, I was not a charismatic in any practical sense. I did not ever try speaking in tongues.

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I didn't believe that I had a miraculous gift to heal anybody. But I also couldn't discount it.

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I didn't think that people that did those things were. Well, I believe that the large majority of it was certainly fake.

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Oh, yeah. But I didn't think that, you know, it wasn't happening at all. Right. If that makes sense. You couldn't prove that there weren't miracles happening.

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Right. But particularly in the argument regarding speaking in tongues. Right. Like even like, you know, the gibberish thing, which

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I don't even consider to be speaking in tongues anymore. But when a person prays in that sort of jibjab sort of a language, nonsensical, that it is the

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Holy Spirit giving them an utterance. And there's not anything for me to be able to say that what they're doing is not speaking in tongues, did not come from the

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Holy Spirit. So what made you change your mind? Well, there was a friend who walked me through the scriptures. It was actually a friend who helped us come up with the name when we understand the text.

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So he was part of this ministry in the very beginning. We got into a discussion one night, and I'm starting with the argument from 1

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Corinthians 14, specifically regarding speaking in tongues. But he said, no, you can't start there. You got to go earlier than that.

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He took me back to the Old Testament. We went through Acts. Right. I think the thing that really turned me around, though, more than anything,

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I think this was the most persuasive argument, is that you never see Jesus do this. All the prayers that Jesus prayed were clear prayers.

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And oftentimes we talk about speaking in tongues where we talk about it in the context of, like, a private prayer language.

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Right. Between you and God is what I was told. Right. So for me, reading the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6 or looking at the other places where Jesus prayed, he prayed clear, discernible prayers.

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And if we're supposed to pray like Jesus, there's not anything that you can come back to and say.

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Right. Nothing that you can come back to and say, well, here Jesus was speaking gibberish, so it's my private prayer language.

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With the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6, right before that, Jesus says, don't heap up empty phrases as the

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Gentiles do. Right. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. That's true. So we're not supposed to pray in empty phrases.

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We're supposed to pray clear, discernible prayers, as Jesus taught us to pray. So anyway, he walked me through the scriptures and showed me an understanding of speaking in tongues.

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And then it was really that eventually kind of trickled out into all the other areas that these miraculous spiritual gifts had a time and a purpose.

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And they are not seen, witnessed, exercised with any kind of regularity in the world today.

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No one can claim to be a faith healer. Right. No one can claim to be speaking a language that is, unless it's some actual discernible language.

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Right. Human language. And there's somebody else that comes along and can interpret it based on the disciplines that Paul gives in 1

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Corinthians. So anyway, it's an understanding of what the scripture says. Michael is asking for some biblical evidences that affirm cessationism.

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Well, first let me give you the one that I don't think works. Okay. This is the one that I heard the most often when

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I was a continuist, a continuationist. And this argument was just not convincing to me.

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So I don't use it whenever somebody is asking for evidence that the miraculous spiritual gifts have come to an end.

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In 1 Corinthians 13, 8, it says, love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away.

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As for tongues, they will cease. As for knowledge, it will pass away.

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For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.

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There are many cessationists that will use this verse to say, see, Paul is talking about here. Tongues will cease.

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Prophecy will cease. It doesn't say anything about miraculous spiritual gifts, which you'll see that tied into that as well.

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Miracles will cease. I just don't find that argument convincing out of 1 Corinthians 13. That looks to me like when

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Christ returns, those things will cease. That's how I saw it too.

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Yeah. You can easily interpret it that way. Okay. So for me, something that would be a little bit more convincing would be, first of all, the example that Jesus gives in Matthew 6.

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Don't heap up empty phrases. Pray then like this. But in Hebrews chapter 1, verse 1, it says, long ago, at many times and in many ways,

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God spoke to our fathers by the prophets. But in these last days, he has spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

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And then in chapter 2, it says, for since I'm starting in verse 2, for since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation?

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It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the

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Holy Spirit, distributed according to his will. So this is very clearly stating something that's in the past tense, even.

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Right, definitely. That the gospel has gone out, and God bore witness by signs, wonders, and various miracles, and by gifts of the

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Holy Spirit, and how do those giftings of the Holy Spirit get distributed? According to his will.

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So it is the Spirit's will that you would have a spiritual gift. Right. And that you would exercise it for his glory.

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For the apostles, it was to do this spiritual gifting to show that what I have to share with you comes from God.

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It is not from man, for what man can do this? And there are other places in the scriptures where we see that Paul, though we know that he did miraculous signs, you have the account of him in Ephesus, the napkins that he used to wipe sweat off of his face would be taken to the sick, and they would be healed by it.

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Right. And then, of course, we have him raising Eutychus from the dead, or we have any of the miracles that Peter or the other apostles performed, any of those things.

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We see that in Acts, but Paul was not able to do this whenever he wanted. Right. Yeah, it's true.

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There were occasions when Paul could not heal. For example, 1 Timothy 5 .23, No longer drink any water, or only water.

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Don't drink water anymore, Timothy. No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.

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Why didn't Paul just drop one of those napkins in the letter, you know, here, wipe your face with this, or rub it on your tummy.

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Yeah. Here's the easy medicine. That's right. Your stomach ailments will be gone. You're all healed.

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And then we know that it was because of an ailment that Paul had to stop in Galatia, and he preaches the gospel to them for the first time.

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So he says in Galatians 4 .13, you know it was because of a bodily ailment that I preached the gospel to you at first.

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Right. So his getting sick forced him to have to stop there in Galatia. Yeah. And he shares the gospel with them.

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There are other occasions where Paul talks about a tormentor of Satan, a thorn that was given to his flesh that would keep him from becoming conceited, as he talks about in 2

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Corinthians 12. Yeah. Three times he pleads with the Lord to take it away from him. We don't know what it is.

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Well, we do know what it is. It was the trouble that he was receiving from false teachers that were speaking ill about him.

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That's if you look at it in context from chapter 11. But anyway, all that to say that Paul three times pleads with the

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Lord to take it away from him, and God's response to him is, my grace is sufficient for you.

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Yes. For my power is made perfect in your weakness. And then Paul says, I'll go on to boast all the more of my weaknesses.

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Right. So just because a person doesn't get healed doesn't mean that they lack faith.

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Just because a person does not receive relief in this lifetime doesn't mean that God is neglecting them because they don't believe hard enough.

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Right. Just use that time to lean on him all the more. Right. Learn to lean on him. God could be giving you a bodily ailment to teach you to rely all the more on him.

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Yeah. Who raises the dead. There's nothing as humbling as being chronically ill. Becky's knowing the experience of all kinds of aches and pains right now.

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Yeah. So we're in what, month seven of pregnancy, right? And as we've been sitting here doing this, she's becoming progressively more red.

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Yes. I'm quite warm at the moment. Like we said, it's hot in this room. So we got to continue on.

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We got to move on here. Yes. Anyway, I hope that that was enough for you, Michael. I hope that kind of gave you some good answers regarding this.

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But even in scripture, we don't see that miraculous spiritual signs are being put into regular practice.

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It's for a reason, a particular time, and a place to affirm that the message is being spoken truly comes from God.

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And we definitely know that there are no more present day apostles. Correct. Paul said in 1

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Corinthians 15, 8, that he's the last apostle appointed. He goes through a succession of those whom

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Christ appeared to and says, last of all, last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me.

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And it was also to the Corinthians that he said in 2 Corinthians 12, 12, the signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works.

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These were to affirm apostleship. Right. And that the message, you could argue, well, hang on, weren't there people that did miraculous signs that weren't themselves apostles?

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Yes, that's true. But it revealed that what they spoke was the ministry of apostleship that Christ had given to his apostles to go out and proclaim.

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It begins with the Lord. There's testimony of angels. There is the apostles who preached sent out by Christ.

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So they are the foundation of the church. Christ Jesus himself is the cornerstone.

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Right. Talked about in Ephesians 3 and some other places, 1 Peter 2. So here you have Paul saying that the miraculous signs were performed among you that you may know my apostleship,

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Paul speaking of himself, and the message of the gospel that has gone forth. So that's what the miraculous signs were for.

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Right. They're not parlor tricks for us to use today. Oh, my goodness. And it's not like the

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Holy Spirit only shows up at church at 11 o 'clock on a Sunday morning. And then, yeah, and only in those.

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Only in certain churches. That's right. But certain people. That's right. It's like, no. And it's every time, too.

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It never fails. Giving you a few tools to use there, Michael. I encourage you in that conversation with your friends and hope you were able to walk them through scripture on those things.

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Yeah. This next question comes from Jen. This was a handwritten letter. Oh, yeah.

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That was sent to us. Dear Pastor Gabriel Hughes and Mrs. Becky Hughes. My name is

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Jennifer. Most people call me Jen. I am 15 years old and I am from Manitoba, Canada.

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Since the start of COVID -19, I have been enjoying your podcast, especially your Friday Q &A with Becky.

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Your podcast has been such an encouragement to me and all of your listeners. I love to see the true gospel.

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I'm sorry. She loves to see the true gospel, too, I'm sure. I love to see the true godly

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Christian lights that you both shine through your podcast. Being a young lady in this fallen world,

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I get lots of relationship advice, some good and some bad. But to see a true model of Christian marriage brings me great joy and hope.

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I pray that one day I will have a marriage that is 100 % based on the Lord like yours.

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Aww. Well, since I am mailing you guys, I think I will ask two questions for your podcast.

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I know that you guys do Bible reading and prayer as a couple. So, what does this look like? Do you go through a book or do you go through Bible verses?

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And is there a marriage book that you suggest reading before getting married? So, I hope that this letter finds you and your family well.

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I hope that you are encouraged by this letter and that you both continue to stand strong in the faith, even when we are going through hard times and the enemy is hard at work.

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Always keep your eyes pointed at Christ and not the storm about you. From a sister in Christ, Jen.

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So sweet. Now, I didn't include this on this page, but she also had a PS on here that said that she apologized for her spelling mistakes, even though her penmanship was delightful.

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It was, yes. Beautiful handwriting, Jen. But she said that her spelling errors was because she was dyslexic.

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I am, too. I was going to say, hey, Becky can relate to that. Yes, very much. So, what's a good book to read prior to getting married?

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Well, I would recommend R .C. Sproul's book, The Intimate Marriage. I would also recommend

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Elizabeth Elliott's book for you, Jen, entitled Passion and Purity. Okay. That's a good one to read as well.

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Becky and I didn't really read a lot of marriage books before we got married. No, we went through counseling, though, with our pastor.

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Two pastors. Two pastors, yeah. And we went through to a couple of premarital things.

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I don't know if I'd recommend them anymore, though, because look them up first and verify that they're going to be sound.

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Because that was. . . I think they're still okay. It was the Weekend to Remember Marriage Conference. Oh, yeah, that's what it was called.

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Yeah, that's what it was. That was put on by Family Life Today. I mean, they've had Votie Bauckham at those things and everything else.

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Right. But she's in Canada. That's why I was saying verify before you go.

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Make sure it's going to be sound advice. Right. And that is for couples as well. So Becky and I went as pre -weds.

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Right. It was when we were engaged. And then we got married and we went back again. We did. Because there were different classes that you take.

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When you're married. Right. Than when you were single. So we went back so we could go, okay, what did we miss?

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Yeah, okay, now what? What were the classes we missed? It was very, very helpful though.

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It was. We actually, by some accounts, we overdid it.

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Eh, maybe. I don't think we did at all. I think everything we did was great. I don't think we overdid it. I think we were cautious.

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Yeah. We also come from different circumstances too. So that background coming into a marriage, we wanted it to be all on the right foot from the get -go and not have the struggles that most newly -weds go through.

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We didn't want the struggles we had been through in our previous relationships. Well, there's that. I wasn't going to go there. Yeah. Yeah.

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That's essentially it. Just making sure that we were starting a marriage on Christ. Yes, exactly.

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That He was the foundation of our marriage. And I had no idea what that looked like. So, I mean, not to say that my parents weren't a good example.

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I'm just like, I was so self -absorbed. Yeah. Oh, sure. Right. That I could not fathom how

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I would do this correctly to glorify the Lord. Yeah. And I still fall.

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I still fall short every day. And whereas I was raised on focus on the family and family life today, listening to those almost every day.

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Mm -hmm. So there was plenty of marriage advice I had been getting my entire life. Even when

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Becky and I met and I would do certain things, she would just go, where did you learn to do that? Yep. It was either one of those programs or watching my parents do it.

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So. Yeah. Whenever I became a Christian, I thought that there was no humor in Christianity.

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I can't laugh anymore. I can't go out and have fun. I can't. You know, it's going to be very dull because we're just going to worship

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God. And I realized that that's not right. Play harps on a cloud with a little. You know.

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Little paper wings. I was just trying to get a grip on what it was like. And then to go through those classes, it really helped prep me on, you know, you do have fun.

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Oh, we had lots of fun. We do laugh. We laugh every day. Becky and I laugh all the time. We do. She's the most hilarious person in the world.

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No, you are. And then our kids crack us both up.

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Oh, yes. They're so funny. Yeah. So we didn't read a lot of books before we got married. We had a lot of help.

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We didn't read a lot of marriage books. Let me clarify that. There were a lot of Christian books we did read.

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And we did read those things together. And that's really what we do now. But I will say this,

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Jen, when we first got your letter, we were both a little convicted because we've not been doing this regularly. Not regularly.

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Often. But not regularly. We still pray together. We haven't been going through a book together except for the family devotions we have.

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We've been going through Exodus. And we still do catechism with the kids. And we still ask questions. I still ask him questions almost every day about things that the

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Bible says and clarifying and this and that and the other. And we'll go through it. So it's not like we don't. We talk about it.

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Yeah. We talk about it on a pretty regular basis. There's just not anything guiding us. Yes. Except for me being a husband and guiding the way that I should.

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Yeah. Dyslexia pours into that a little bit, too, because I'm hesitant to pick up a book.

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I can't – paying attention to one book for any length of time is – that's something

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I've got to get over. But – I've been wanting to go through – But I have you read it.

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That's right. And then I have you explain it to me sometimes. So we'll go through a chapter or something. I'll read it out loud.

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It takes 10 to 20 minutes. And then we'll talk about it. Yeah. I've been wanting to go through Fault Lines from Bode Bachum with you.

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I really want to do that. But that's another one of those that I'm like, I'm going to just put it down and probably never pick it up again.

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I've been through it. I just haven't gone through it with Becky. That's why whenever I do get a book that I'm like, okay,

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I've got to finish reading this. Like, don't bug me. Leave me alone for five hours. I need to finish this book.

24:38

Oh, yeah. And that's the only time. And that's very rare. When Becky starts a book, she just kind of plows right through it. I do.

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Sorry that I threw you the mic. But I do. I really do plow through it.

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That's a good way of describing it. There's one I just picked up on the Lord's Prayer, and I got it because I'm actually preaching on the

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Lord's Prayer tomorrow. That was the reason why I picked up the book. But it's written like a devotional book. Oh, cool.

25:02

So that would be a good one to go through. I don't like regularly scheduled devotional books, though, because we don't keep a regular schedule.

25:09

No, no. Our schedule is different every day and week to week. Sometimes I find that to be a little discouraging.

25:15

Yeah. Because if you're going through one of those books that has like day one, day two, it has it sectioned out like that, and you miss one, then you're like, well,

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I failed. Yeah. That's it. We can't do it now. I totally messed all this up.

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And Gabe's totally that personality of if he does not have even from the beginning, it just won't work.

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I won't come in the middle of something. Yes. No. It's just no. I'm like, okay, let's skip around, whatever.

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She starts a movie or a TV show. She's five minutes into it. I'm like, hey, do you want to sit down and watch this with you?

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Nope. You already started it. I'm like, I'll start it over. Nope. That's okay. That's it. It's already ruined.

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He's like, I saw three seconds of it. That was too much. It was not at the beginning. My dad was like this, too.

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I mean, when I read through the Bible, I started at the beginning. You did. It wasn't like, oh, I like John. We'll read through John.

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Nope. I started at the beginning. Yep. I love it. Yeah. Anyway.

26:18

Yeah. So what I'd recommend is just starting with the books that Gabe recommended in the beginning, and then if you happen to find that special someone, make sure they're saved first.

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They're tried and true before you start crushing on them. Yeah. As it says in Song of Solomon, do not awaken love until the proper time.

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Yes. I had that conversation with my 13 -year -old a few days ago. Yes. It is very wise to – that's like the best advice that I can give is without knowing you personally, is just make sure that they're saved before you get into a – not even a committed relationship, just even starting any sort of feelings because it's just a lot – it's messy after that happens.

27:18

Yeah. It gets just really messy, and it's hard. We've seen so many people that they're like, well,

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I'm just in love with them, and I can't help it. Yeah. And then they get married, and their walk with the

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Lord is a struggle. Right. Well, like it says in Revelation 2, you have to make

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Christ your first love. Mm -hmm. Yes. And that's one of the things that Elizabeth Elliot establishes in her book, the one that I recommended for you.

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Books to read at this age, just focus on Christ. Yes. Just pick up books that elevate

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Christ and the gospel. No other gospel by John MacArthur. You know, something like that would be really good.

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Mm -hmm. Yeah, I mentioned fault lines. That has to do with critical race theory and the wokeness stuff that's going on right now.

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But you're still talking about Votie Bauckham writing this book to elevate Christ. Mm -hmm.

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Christ is our reconciliation. Christ is supposed to be our focus. So any book on any particular subject, as long as it's elevating

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Christ and pointing you to him, these things are training you for when you are going to share your life with somebody else someday.

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Mm -hmm. Because you're already focused on Christ. He should already be focused on Christ. Yeah. And when you're both building your lives to God together, then it just draws you closer and closer to one another.

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Yeah. The closer you get to God, the closer you're going to get to one another. Right. I agree. There you go.

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I think I got time for one more here. All right. Hello. Is there any room – that's just how the email begins.

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Hello. Hello. Hello. Hi. Is there any room for anointing with oil in the church today?

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If there is, what are the parameters for its use? If not, is it heretical to do so? Is it a

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Christian liberty practice? I don't see it as a condemned practice, but I have seen it misused by various sects, expecting that the oil was somehow blessed by God and would impart healing to the person, taking passages from James, et al.

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But I don't believe in us having the same power to heal, the same capabilities for miracles that the apostles had.

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We're really going back to the cessationism question now with this one. I don't believe that God calls

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Christians to do miracles anymore. So when a church that is not charismatic and has solid teaching regarding the elect,

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Christology, soteriology, and is at almost every other point, they are open to pedo -baptism and I am not –

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I'm probably reading that sentence wrong. I apologize. But anyway, should I be uneasy with the use of oil and the pastor laying a hand on the person in need of prayer while the congregation prays for them?

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Thanks, Jessica. So, yeah, that sentence that was in there I kind of misread, but it was talking about the church

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I attend is not charismatic. They have solid teaching regarding the elect, Christology, soteriology, and they're right on with almost every other point.

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Where she's confused about is the use of anointing with oil and the laying on of hands.

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Now, she mentioned James. Where we get this from is in James 5, and here is what we read, beginning in verse 13.

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Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise.

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Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the

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Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick and the

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Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed.

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The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. So, as we've read this here in James 5,

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I will say that as a pastor, I have done exactly this. Even as a cessationist pastor,

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I have done this. So, we have gone to somebody who was sick and they called for the elders of the church and said, can you come and lay hands on me and anoint me with oil and pray for me?

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And it was somebody from our church. We would not just go out and do this with anybody that was not from our church because we're their elders, we're their shepherds, and so we have the responsibility to care for and oversee their souls, preparing them to be able to stand before the

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Lord one day in glory. So, a person who is sick, we come to them, we've anointed a head with oil, we've laid hands on them, and we have prayed.

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Now, it appears, I'm going to say this, but I believe in the context of what

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James is talking about here in James 5. He's talking about specifically somebody who believes that they are sick because of a sin that they've done.

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Right. I can see that, yeah. So, this isn't necessarily calling for a regular common practice of anointing with oil anytime somebody feels sick.

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This is somebody who thinks that I have transgressed against the

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Lord. I think that I'm ill because of a sin that I've committed against God. I'm confessing that sin.

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Now, please come and anoint me with oil that I may confess my sin to the elders, and then the

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Lord may have mercy and compassion on me and heal me of that. Right. And forgive my sin. And forgive my sin, right.

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And I can say from firsthand experience that I've been there before, I have been sick in my body, and I know the reason why

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I feel this way is because of guilt that is overwhelming me over sin that I've committed.

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Yeah. I've been there before. So, unfortunately, I was attending a church at that time that was really not good.

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So, they did not do well with me even as I was convicted of that sin and wanting to be forgiven.

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They did not shepherd me well in that at all. That's a story for another time. But anyway, so coming back to this where James says, the one who is sick, the

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Lord will raise him up. If he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Mm -hmm. First John 1 .9, if we confess our sins,

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God is faithful and just to cleanse us, forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

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Amen. Going on here in James 5 to verse 16, therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another that you may be healed.

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The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain.

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And for three years and six months, it did not rain on the earth. Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore its fruit.

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My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death, and will cover over a multitude of sins.

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Mm -hmm. So it appears here that in context, we're talking about a person who has sinned and is feeling sick or ill in their body because of sin that they've done against God.

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Mm -hmm. And they are confessing that to their elders. They're being anointed with oil to symbolize being consecrated because that's what the anointing of oil was supposed to demonstrate.

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So explain consecrated. Being made holy, set apart. That's what I thought.

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You know, even the walls of Jerusalem, when they were being rebuilt by Nehemiah, they were being prayed over and consecrated the whole time that they were being rebuilt.

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Huh. So these are walls around the city of our God. Mm -hmm. You know, the city that God had given to the

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Israelites. So therefore, these walls were being consecrated that God would be among them and would truly be the one protecting them.

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Mm -hmm. So anointing with oil is to ask that God would protect the one who is being anointed, that he would be set apart, he would be consecrated to the

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Lord as holy, which is a blessing that is given to us by the Holy Spirit of God. So this person would be forgiven their sins.

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They're confessing their sins, they're forgiven their sins, and then they would walk in holiness and righteousness and no longer in that sin anymore.

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This is not a passage that guarantees healing. Right. By the anointing of oil.

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By the anointing of oil. And Jessica, if that's what's going on in your church, then I would just encourage you to talk with your elders about that. If this is a practice that we are doing, why are we doing this?

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Do we really think that anointing with oil is supposed to guarantee a person's healing? Right. Is that what we think is happening?

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That'd be a good thing to sit down with them. Yeah. So specifically ask your elders why they do that, what's the purpose of this.

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You mentioned James. They take passages from James, but how are they applying that? So just ask the question, let them talk that through with you and explain the reason and the meaning of why they're doing this.

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But that's what... But obviously it's not heretical unless they have the wrong approach, right? It seems like the church is solid on every other teaching, at least that's the way she describes it.

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But yeah, I mean, just between you and your elders may just need to ask for some clarifications on things. Yeah.

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What their motivation is behind this particular practice. All right, that's it.

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All right. It is hot in this room. Let's get out of here. It is very warm. Okay, let's pray. All right, let's.

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Heavenly Father, we thank you for our time together. We thank you for these letters that we have received and I pray that the answers that have been given come from scripture, that they are edifying to the hearer, that we are building one another up in our faith and holding fast to Jesus Christ, our

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Savior. May he be our hope and our peace in these days. We find no hope in this world, which is passing away and coming into judgment.

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We find our hope only in Christ who is coming soon and will deliver us from this present evil age.

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Help us to walk as holy, as consecrated, as set apart in this world, holding fast to the gospel of Christ and sharing that gospel with others, that they too may hear the good news of Jesus Christ, turn from their sin to Christ our