November 28, 2018 Show with Dr. Barry J. York on “Hitting the Marks: Restoring the Essential Identity of the Church”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions. Now here's our host Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon. Cumberland County, Pennsylvania,.

Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com. This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday,.

I'm sorry, Wednesday on this 28th day of November 2018 and I'm so delighted to have for the very first time ever on the program Dr. Barry J York. He is president and professor of pastoral theology at the Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and that seminary should not be unfamiliar to those who listen regularly to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio because we have interviewed a number of faculty members and also former students of Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Today we're going to be addressing Dr. York's book, Hitting the Marks, Restoring the Essential Identity of the Church and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron.

Radio, Dr. Barry J York. Well thank you Chris, it's a pleasure and a privilege to be on your show.

Great, well it's a great honor and privilege and pleasure for me and I'm sure for my listeners as well. Why don't you tell our listeners first of all something about Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary even though we've explained this seminary many times on the show.

We do have new listeners that seem to be joining the audience of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio every day so please for the especially for the sake of those who have not yet heard about Reformed Presbyterian.

Theological Seminary. Tell us our listeners about that. Well Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary or RPTS as we like to call it is actually the fifth oldest seminary in the United States. We also want you on my heart training.

The website is rpts .edu for those of you who want to explore.

Further into the Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. One thing that is quite a fascinating fact of history, I know that the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America who is the primary denomination running the seminary, they were the first evangelical Christian denomination in the south to oppose slavery.

And that's something that a lot of people are unaware of. Yes, if you look on our website and a year ago I think it was in the spring 2017 issue. Well another thing that we normally do.

On Iron Trip and Zion Radio when we have a first-time guest is we have that guest. Give a summary of the account of your salvation what kind of religious atmosphere if any you were raised in and what providential circumstances our sovereign lord brought about in your life that drew you to.

Himself and saved you. I appreciate that opportunity almost every week. And about about nine years of age here that that was just as I got into my high school. Good on the outside in some way. At other times that happened to me too believe it or not really that's something we have in common.

Yeah two four two former crooks here. I had a meal hung out with me and then eventually asked me if I'd like to attend a Bible study and Saturday nights I was running wild. But then I started going to this Bible study in the book of John.

So the gospel in grad school. Well praise God. Well I'm going to give our listeners our email.

Address if they would like to join us on the air with questions of their own the email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C-h-r-i-s-a-r-n-z-e-n gmail .com. Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside of the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. I want to read a few of the endorsements for this book that you've written Hitting the Marks Restoring the Essential Identity of the Church because they are quite impressive.

Two of these men have been on Iron Trip and Zion Radio as guests and one of them is involved with one of our sponsors World Magazine. But Ligon Duncan a chancellor and CEO of Reform Theological Seminary says.

This book is clear helpful biblical pastoral and Presbyterian exposition and counsel for pastors elders and congregations alike on understanding and applying the marks and characteristics of the church in order to have healthy churches.

Also Derek Thomas senior minister at the First Presbyterian Church in Columbia South Carolina and Chancellor's Professor at Reform Theological Seminary says. A much needed resource on the meaning and identity of the church in a compromised age.

Invaluable and timely. Clear concise a clarion call for reformation. Thoroughly recommended. And finally Russ Pulliam who is with the Indianapolis Star and World Magazine. Uh he says Barry York offers an experienced voice of practical application of scripture.

God has used him as a pastor a disciple maker and a church planner. He's not offering just theory about church. Barry gives the real deal. Well those are quite impressive commendations. Especially because of the men who wrote those commendations.

And if you could uh Dr York there are a number of books as you know that have intended or attempted to challenge Christians in general and especially Christians in leadership to steer the church back to the original purpose and intention and identity that Christ had in his mind and his perfect and inerrant and holy and righteous mind when the church was established.

Why did you think.

That another volume was needed on a subject like this. Yeah I uh when you ask them what things that I really core issues see. But then it's the church training the people. Uh if you could uh give us a.

Definition of what the church is. That may sound like a silly question to many people listening who think oh I know what the church is. Everybody knows what the church is but there are uh different definitions.

Obviously there's only one true definition but there are many who have a misunderstanding of what the church is. I know that the root uh word uh ecclesia refers to those who are called out but if you could give us uh a definition to work with in the beginning of our.

Discussion here. Well the church would be those who follow Jesus. A lot of people out there that would claim to follow between the true believers. Heaven now her at the end this religion. What are those distinct that are needed.

Yes uh. And it is a tragedy that uh for quite a long time uh the.

Uh evangelical church at large let alone other churches that are even more uh towards the realm of apostasy or even explicitly apostate uh that all three of those have been uh poorly uh manifested very often in even churches that would consider themselves to be bible believing and even conservative.

Um one of the things um before we go into specifically those three that churches disagree on even good biblically faithful churches uh seem to have on occasion disagreements over the.

Offices of christ if you could uh let our listeners know about that. Christ we now uh one of the reasons.

I say that some christians disagree. Is that as you may know there are folks who we would consider our brothers in christ even though we strongly disagree with them on certain issues and one of them involves the kingship of jesus.

Uh some are saying that jesus is not now king he will be when he is reigning and uh what they would call the uh the millennium period which they they typically view in a different way than than most reformed christians.

Uh view that uh and they would say even they would even dare to say that that satan is the lord or the king of this earth. But uh how do you answer the person that says how can jesus be king. When we see uh the majority of people on this globe acting in a wicked fashion who were rebelling against christ and his word.

Uh when it seems that evil is getting worse and worse and manifesting itself in all kinds of uh grotesque and horrific ways that many of us for most of our lives haven't witnessed uh until recently. So how would you say.

How is. How do you respond to the folks that say how is jesus king.

Well first of any man that he was the king and when he lord authority and heaven. It's mine. It has been given to me so just a little he's done a great thing. We're not done yet. We who are reformed.

Also would typically say that the devil is god's devil and that he cannot do anything without being granted permission by god himself to do it. Just as we see in the book of job all the things that fell upon job and his family the devil couldn't do any of those things.

In fact he specifically asked god for permission to do those things. Uh so uh people should be reminded. Um i think you would agree that no matter what evil we see in the world around us god has a sovereign purpose for us.

He does not bless evil and those who are guilty of evil acts who do not repent before they depart from this earth they will be punished in hell. But at the same time god has a sovereign purpose for all of this.

And the devil is on a leash uh that god is holding tightly onto.

Am i right. Amen. Yes yes uh even the legion of demons had to go into her to the sea and drown. So right. Yes the demons are under his. Well going back to those three main things uh that identify.

The true church i'm going to ask you about uh the faithful preaching of the word of god and i'm going to have you answer it when we return from our first break. Because we're going to our first break right now.

But if you could uh tell us what you think or ways that you think. The modern church even the church that professes to be biblically faithful has in many ways failed at that mission for its ministers to be faithful preachers of the word and how they have drifted from the gospel and focused on the things that are not the gospel or even have twisted the gospel itself.

But if anybody would like to join us on the air uh you can email us at chris arnson at gmail .com chris arnson at gmail .com and give us your first name your city and state of residence in your country of residence.

If you live outside the usa and remember to please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. If you're going to be criticizing a particular church or congregation uh we would obviously prefer that you remain anonymous and keep that church anonymous.

Uh so we could understand. If you uh are going to be saying something critical of perhaps even the church where you are a member we would we would insist that you remain anonymous. But other than that if it's just a general question please give us your first name city and state and country of residence and don't go away.

We'll be right back. After these messages with dr barry j york and more on hitting the marks. Chris arnson host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world magazine my trusted source for news from a christian perspective try world now at no charge for 90 days by going to get world now .com that's get world now .com.

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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students andy woodard serves as the pastor. It's called new covenant church nyc. They are a reformed baptist church that meets in midtown manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website which is www .ncc .nyc. They believe in a sovereign god who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel. If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching which is simply biblical preaching in new york city i'd like to recommend that you visit new covenant church nyc again.

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Our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is dr barry j york and he has written a book hitting the marks restoring the essential identity of the church. And the forward was written by one of my favorite preachers edward donnelly or as many people call him ted donnelly.

What a phenomenal preacher. If anybody listening wants to discover the preaching of ted donnelly you can find it at sermon audio and other places on the internet i'm sure. But what a remarkable.

Preacher and gifted man of god. Uh how is brother donnelly doing these days. Dr york. Uh he actually. Congregation that. Praise god. That's very good to hear. Yes i can still remember vividly when i first.

Heard him preach at the orthodox presbyterian church of franklin square long island new york probably back in the 1980s maybe the 1990s when my friend uh dear friend of many years pastor bill shishko was still pastoring there so i can hardly recommend uh the ted donnelly's preaching.

Um so as you remember uh before the break i asked you to highlight some of the ways that you think perhaps the evangelical church at large may have departed in some areas in regarding to the faithful.

Preaching of the word of god one of the things that i point out we have these offices of jesus he is a process identity is directly connected to jesus he is the head priest and he's showing and demonstrate his son.

And the way that that primarily happens is we're telling the people of god what it really means to be a disciple of jesus christ at the heart of that is the gospel. He died. So i think preaching although i'm i'm on a large scale way as we look across the preaching of god's please them to tickle their ears to make now do you think that that is a.

Direct result of preachers or pastors failing to preach and teach the whole counsel of god. If i have said before when i've seen joel olsteen preaching on television where he has this permanent beaming smile on his face i've never seen him preach or teach with a frown uh or with a look of urgency and um seriousness uh now i'm not a i'm not somebody who has watched every moment of his preaching.

But i have said that you cannot remain with a smile on your face all the time if you are preaching the whole council of god. Uh so do you think that that's at root.

Yes um own blood right. Uh we do have uh christopher in suffolk county long island new york.

Who has a question. I often hear reform people using different phrases for the lord's supper and baptism. Some interchangeably use ordinances and sacraments. Some refuse to use the phrase sacraments and solely use the word ordinances because they think sacraments is on in as an improper way of defining what those elements are in the worship of christ.

Why does your guest use the word sacraments and does he differentiate that word from the way.

Rome has misused it. Yes and uh not all baptists especially reformed baptists are leery of using.

The phrase in fact one of the greatest heroes earthly heroes of the majority of reformed baptists charles haddon spurgeon he used the term sacraments. Uh by the way thank you christopher. And if you give us your mailing address in suffolk county long island new york you are going to be receiving absolutely free of charge the book hitting the marks restoring the essential identity of the church by our guest dr barry j york.

And that is compliments of our friends at crown and covenant publications who are always faithful to provide us with wonderful books when we interview their authors. Also compliments of our friends at cvbbs .com cumberland valley bible book service actually be shipping the book out to you at no charge to you or to our interpreters on radio.

So uh please look out for that in the mail and please make sure we have your mailing address so we can have that shipped out as soon as possible. Uh now if the administration the proper administration of the sacraments or ordinances is a hallmark of a true church uh do you think that some churches uh perhaps far more than we care to mention who are even within the reformed faith seem to uh not want to highlight them too frequently in the gathering of the body of christ and in the worship of christ uh where you have you know you may have some churches that have the lord's supper once a year twice a year and prolonged baptisms for many months perhaps a year or more.

And you know there are some churches that only baptize people on easter sunday for instance and things like that or when it's warm enough to go to the beach and do it. Uh do you think that uh that that kind of detracts from the sacraments ordinances being such a.

A major element within the true church's identity yes i look around the block so that we go out to the church and when the elements are and sometimes churches really need to be read the blood of jesus christ because that's what the sacraments are really representing to us is to assure you which is a way the dirt from the bush should never rise that never be a self-reflection.

We are going to our midway break right now and i just forwarded you an email dr york uh from someone that you may know uh he has been a guest on this program at least twice. Uh my new friend mitch tepper who is the new missionary for a christian witness to israel.

He is a graduate of reformed presbyterian theological seminary. And uh yes i know that very well. Yeah. And he sent in a question and i'm going to read it to you now and then you can answer it when we return.

And you can also look over the question uh during the break. Uh because of the fact that it's a it's an elongated break uh because of the fact that grace life radio 90 .1 fm in lake city florida requires of us a long break because they localize iron trip and zion radio to lake city florida with commercials and public service announcements.

But mitch tepper uh who is as i said the missionary for christian witness to israel's north american division he says without mentioning names. I have heard many feel-good messages self-help messages.

Messages even as lloyd jones was quoted in your book as messages about the gospel. I think he wanted to emphasize about the gospel. But i have heard very few pastors preach gospel messages on a weekly basis.

I appreciate you taught us well in homiletics classes. Well obviously he's revealed. He knows you that we must preach the gospel to our congregations every week. So many preachers i know do not see seeker friendly churches as being a bad thing.

I learned from you that preaching should cut to the quick with that being uh with that being said is the politically correct seeker friendly. Is the politically correct seeker friendly preaching hurting the true growth and revival of the church.

So we'll have you answer that uh when we come back. And thank you very much mitch. And if anybody else would like to join us our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com. Chrisarnson at gmail .com. Don't go away.

We'll be back after this elongated break with our guest dr barry j york and our subject at hand hitting the marks. Don't go away. Tired of box store christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert.

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From january 17th to the 19th 2019 we'll all be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers on the theme a biblical understanding of missions. Speakers include john piper steve lawson vody balcom mark dever conrad mbewe phil johnson josh bice yours truly and many more.

I hope you all join chris and me for this phenomenal event. For more details go to g3conference .com.

That's g3conference .com. My name is steve lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for ligonier ministries. I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in los angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students andy woodard serves as the pastor. It's called new covenant church nyc. They are a reformed baptist church that meets in midtown manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website which is www .ncc .nyc. They believe in a sovereign god who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel. If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching which is simply biblical preaching in new york city i'd like to recommend that you visit new covenant church nyc again.

Their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc. Have a great day. Chris sorenson host of iron sharpens.

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