November 28, 2018 Show with Dr. Barry J. York on “Hitting the Marks: Restoring the Essential Identity of the Church”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear

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Now here's our host Chris Arntzen.

Good afternoon.

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania,.

Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at

ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday,.

I'm sorry, Wednesday on this 28th day of November 2018

and I'm so delighted to have for the very first time ever on the program Dr. Barry J

York.

He is president and professor of pastoral theology at the Reformed Presbyterian

Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and that seminary

should not be unfamiliar to those who listen regularly to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio because we have interviewed a number of

faculty members and also former students of Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary.

Today we're going to be addressing Dr. York's book, Hitting the Marks, Restoring the Essential Identity

of the Church and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron.

Radio, Dr. Barry J York.

Well thank you Chris, it's a pleasure and a privilege to be on your show.

Great, well it's a great honor and privilege and pleasure for me and I'm sure for my listeners

as well.

Why don't you tell our listeners first of all something about Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary even though

we've explained this seminary many times on the show.

We do have new listeners that seem to be joining the audience of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

every day so please for the especially for the sake of those who have not yet heard about Reformed Presbyterian.

Theological Seminary.

Tell us our listeners about that.

Well Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary or RPTS as we like to call it is actually the fifth

oldest seminary in the United States.

We also

want you on my heart

training.

The website is rpts .edu

for those of you

who want to explore.

Further into the Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary in Pittsburgh,

Pennsylvania.

One thing that is quite a fascinating fact of

history, I know that the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America who is the primary

denomination running the seminary, they were the first evangelical

Christian denomination in the south to oppose slavery.

And that's something that a lot of people are unaware of.

Yes, if you look on our website and

a year ago I think it was in the

spring 2017 issue.

Well another

thing that

we normally do.

On Iron Trip and Zion Radio when we have a first -time guest is we have that guest.

Give a summary of the account of your salvation what kind of religious atmosphere if

any you were raised in and what providential circumstances our sovereign lord brought about in your

life that drew you to.

Himself and saved you.

I appreciate

that opportunity

almost every week.

And about about nine years of age

here that that

was just

as I got into my

high school.

Good

on the outside in

some way.

At other times that

happened to me too believe it or not

really that's something we

have in common.

Yeah two four two former crooks here.

I had a meal

hung out with

me and

then

eventually

asked me

if

I'd like

to attend a Bible study

and Saturday nights I was running wild.

But then I started going to this Bible study in the book of John.

So the

gospel in

grad

school.

Well

praise God.

Well

I'm

going to

give

our

listeners

our

email.

Address if they would like to join us on the air with questions of their own the email address is chrisarnsen at gmail

.com.

C -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside

of the USA.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

I want to read a few of the endorsements for this book that you've written

Hitting the Marks Restoring the Essential Identity of the Church because they are quite

impressive.

Two of these men have been on Iron Trip and Zion Radio as guests and one of

them is involved with one of our sponsors World Magazine.

But Ligon Duncan a chancellor and CEO of Reform Theological Seminary says.

This book is clear helpful biblical pastoral and Presbyterian exposition and counsel

for pastors elders and congregations alike on understanding and applying the marks and characteristics

of the church in order to have healthy churches.

Also Derek Thomas senior minister at the First Presbyterian Church in Columbia South Carolina and

Chancellor's Professor at Reform Theological Seminary says.

A much needed resource on the meaning and identity of the church in a compromised age.

Invaluable and timely.

Clear concise a clarion call for reformation.

Thoroughly recommended.

And finally Russ Pulliam who is with the Indianapolis Star

and World Magazine.

Uh he says Barry York offers an experienced voice of practical application of scripture.

God has used him as a pastor a disciple maker and a church planner.

He's not offering just theory about church.

Barry gives the real deal.

Well those are quite impressive commendations.

Especially because of the men who wrote those commendations.

And if you could uh Dr York there are a number of books as you know

that have intended or attempted to challenge

Christians in general and especially Christians in leadership to steer the church

back to the original purpose and intention and identity

that Christ had in his mind and his perfect and

inerrant and holy and righteous mind when the church was established.

Why did you think.

That another volume

was

needed

on a

subject

like this.

Yeah I uh

when

you ask them what things that

I

really core

issues

see.

But

then

it's the

church training the

people.

Uh if

you

could

uh

give

us

a.

Definition of what the church is.

That may sound like a silly question to many people listening who think oh I know what the church is.

Everybody knows what the church is but there are uh different definitions.

Obviously there's only one true definition but there are many who have a misunderstanding of what the church is.

I know that the root uh word uh ecclesia refers to

those who are called out but if you could give us uh a definition to work with in the beginning of our.

Discussion here.

Well the church would be those who follow Jesus.

A lot of people out there that

would

claim

to follow

between

the

true believers.

Heaven

now her

at the

end this

religion.

What

are those distinct that

are needed.

Yes

uh.

And it is a

tragedy that

uh for quite a long

time uh the.

Uh evangelical church at large let alone other churches that are even more

uh towards the realm of apostasy or even explicitly apostate

uh that all three of those have been uh poorly uh manifested

very often in even churches that would consider themselves to be bible believing and even

conservative.

Um one of the things um before we go into specifically those

three that churches disagree on even good biblically faithful churches uh

seem to have on occasion disagreements over the.

Offices

of

christ

if you could

uh let our listeners

know about that.

Christ we

now uh one of

the

reasons.

I say that some christians disagree.

Is that as you may know there are folks who we would consider our brothers in christ

even though we strongly disagree with them on certain issues and one of them involves the kingship of

jesus.

Uh some are saying that jesus is not now king he will be

when he is reigning and uh what they would call the uh the millennium period which

they they typically view in a different way than than most reformed christians.

Uh view that uh and they would say even they would even dare to say that that satan is the

lord or the king of this earth.

But uh how do you answer the person that says how can jesus be king.

When we see uh the majority of people on this globe acting in a wicked fashion who were

rebelling against christ and his word.

Uh when it seems that evil is getting worse and worse and manifesting itself in

all kinds of uh grotesque and horrific ways that

many of us for most of our lives haven't witnessed uh until recently.

So how would you say.

How is.

How do you respond to the folks that say how is jesus king.

Well

first of

any

man that he

was

the

king

and

when

he lord

authority

and

heaven.

It's mine.

It has been given

to me

so

just

a little he's

done a

great

thing.

We're not

done yet.

We

who

are

reformed.

Also would typically say that the devil is god's devil and that he

cannot do anything without being granted permission by god himself to do it.

Just as we see in the book of job all the things that fell upon job and his family

the devil couldn't do any of those things.

In fact he specifically asked god for permission to do those things.

Uh so uh people should be reminded.

Um i think you would agree that no matter what evil we see in the world around us god has a sovereign

purpose for us.

He does not bless evil and those who are guilty of

evil acts who do not repent before they depart from this earth they will be punished in hell.

But at the same time god has a sovereign purpose for all of this.

And the devil is on a leash uh that god is holding tightly onto.

Am i right.

Amen.

Yes yes uh even the legion of demons had to go

into her to the sea and drown.

So right.

Yes the demons are under his.

Well going back to those three main things uh that identify.

The true church i'm going to ask you about uh the faithful

preaching of the word of god and i'm going to have you answer it when we return from our first break.

Because we're going to our first break right now.

But if you could uh tell us what you think or ways that you

think.

The modern church even the church that professes to be biblically faithful has in many ways

failed at that mission for its ministers to be faithful preachers of the word and how they have

drifted from the gospel and focused on the things that are not the gospel or even have twisted the gospel itself.

But if anybody would like to join us on the air uh you can email us at chris arnson at gmail .com chris

arnson at gmail .com and give us your first name your city and state of residence in your country of residence.

If you live outside the usa and remember to please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

If you're going to be criticizing a particular church or congregation uh we would

obviously prefer that you remain anonymous and keep that church anonymous.

Uh so we could understand.

If you uh are going to be saying something critical of perhaps even the church where you are a member we would we would

insist that you remain anonymous.

But other than that if it's just a general question please give us your first name city and state and country of residence and don't go away.

We'll be right back.

After these messages with dr barry j york and more on hitting the marks.

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Hi i'm stefan limblad assistant professor of systematic theology

at irbs.

Theological seminary in mansfield texas.

I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because i'm firmly convinced that the people of

god in the churches of our lord jesus christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth

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My name is steve lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for ligonier

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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in los angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students andy woodard serves as the pastor.

It's called new covenant church nyc.

They are a reformed baptist church that meets in midtown manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign god who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching which is simply biblical preaching

in new york city i'd like to recommend that you visit new covenant church nyc

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Their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

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Welcome back.

This is chris arnzen if you just tuned us in.

Our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is dr barry j york

and he has written a book hitting the marks restoring the essential identity

of the church.

And the forward was written by one of my favorite preachers edward donnelly or as many people

call him ted donnelly.

What a phenomenal preacher.

If anybody listening wants to discover the preaching of ted donnelly

you can find it at sermon audio and other places on the internet i'm sure.

But what a remarkable.

Preacher and gifted man of god.

Uh how is brother donnelly doing these days.

Dr york.

Uh he actually.

Congregation that.

Praise god.

That's very good to hear.

Yes i can still remember vividly when i first.

Heard him preach at the orthodox presbyterian church of franklin square long island new york

probably back in the 1980s maybe the 1990s when my friend uh

dear friend of many years pastor bill shishko was still pastoring there so i can hardly

recommend uh the ted donnelly's preaching.

Um so as you remember uh before the break i asked you to highlight some

of the ways that you think perhaps the evangelical church at large may have

departed in some areas in regarding to the faithful.

Preaching of the word of god one of the things that i

point out we have these offices of jesus

he is

a

process

identity

is

directly

connected

to jesus

he is

the

head

priest and he's

showing

and

demonstrate

his son.

And

the

way

that

that

primarily

happens

is we're

telling

the

people

of god what it really means to be a disciple of jesus christ at the heart of that is the gospel.

He died.

So

i think preaching

although i'm i'm

on a large scale

way as

we look across the

preaching of god's please them to tickle

their ears to make now do you think that

that is a.

Direct result of preachers or pastors failing to

preach and teach the whole counsel of god.

If i have said before when i've seen joel olsteen preaching on television

where he has this permanent beaming smile on his face i've never

seen him preach or teach with a frown uh or with a look of

urgency and um seriousness uh now i'm not a i'm not somebody

who has watched every moment of his preaching.

But i have said that you cannot remain with a smile on your face all the time if

you are preaching the whole council of god.

Uh so do you think that that's at root.

Yes um

own

blood

right.

Uh

we

do

have uh

christopher

in

suffolk

county long island

new

york.

Who has a question.

I often hear reform people using different phrases for

the lord's supper and baptism.

Some interchangeably use ordinances and sacraments.

Some refuse to use the phrase sacraments and solely use the

word ordinances because they think sacraments is on in as an improper way

of defining what those elements are in the worship of christ.

Why does your guest use the word sacraments and does he differentiate

that word from the way.

Rome

has

misused

it.

Yes

and

uh

not

all

baptists

especially

reformed

baptists

are

leery

of

using.

The phrase in fact one of the greatest heroes earthly heroes of the majority

of reformed baptists charles haddon spurgeon he used the term sacraments.

Uh by the way thank you christopher.

And if you give us your mailing address in suffolk county long island new york you are going to be receiving absolutely free of

charge the book hitting the marks restoring the essential identity of the church by our

guest dr barry j york.

And that is compliments of our friends at crown and covenant publications who are always faithful to provide us

with wonderful books when we interview their authors.

Also compliments of our friends at cvbbs .com cumberland valley bible book service actually

be shipping the book out to you at no charge to you or to our interpreters on radio.

So uh please look out for that in the mail and please make sure we have your mailing address so we can have that shipped out

as soon as possible.

Uh now if the administration the proper administration of the

sacraments or ordinances is a hallmark of a true

church uh do you think that some churches

uh perhaps far more than we care to mention who are even within the reformed faith seem to

uh not want to highlight them too frequently in the gathering

of the body of christ and in the worship of christ uh where you have you know you may have some

churches that have the lord's supper once a year twice a year and

prolonged baptisms for many months perhaps a year or more.

And you know there are some churches that only baptize people on easter sunday for instance and things like

that or when it's warm enough to go to the beach and do it.

Uh do you think that uh that that kind of detracts from the sacraments ordinances

being such a.

A

major

element

within

the

true

church's

identity yes

i

look

around the

block so that

we go

out to

the church and

when

the

elements

are

and sometimes churches really need

to be

read the

blood of jesus christ because that's what the sacraments are really representing

to us is to

assure you which

is

a way

the

dirt

from

the bush

should

never

rise

that never

be a

self

-reflection.

We are going to our midway break right now and i just forwarded you an email dr york

uh from someone that you may know uh he has been a guest on this program at least

twice.

Uh my new friend mitch tepper who is the new missionary for a christian witness

to israel.

He is a graduate of reformed presbyterian theological seminary.

And uh yes i know that very well.

Yeah.

And he sent in a question and i'm going to read it to you now and then you can answer it when we return.

And you can also look over the question uh during the break.

Uh because of the fact that it's a it's an elongated break uh because of the fact that grace life radio 90

.1 fm in lake city florida requires of us a long break because they localize

iron trip and zion radio to lake city florida with commercials and public service announcements.

But mitch tepper uh who is as i said the missionary for

christian witness to israel's north american division he says without mentioning names.

I have heard many feel -good messages self -help messages.

Messages even as lloyd jones was quoted in your book as messages about the

gospel.

I think he wanted to emphasize about the gospel.

But i have heard very few pastors preach gospel messages on a weekly basis.

I appreciate you taught us well in homiletics classes.

Well obviously he's revealed.

He knows you that we must preach the gospel to our congregations every week.

So many preachers i know do not see seeker friendly churches as being a bad thing.

I learned from you that preaching should cut to the quick with that being

uh with that being said is the politically correct seeker

friendly.

Is the politically correct seeker friendly preaching hurting the true growth and revival of the church.

So we'll have you answer that uh when we come back.

And thank you very much mitch.

And if anybody else would like to join us our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be back after this elongated break with our guest dr barry j york and our subject at

hand hitting the marks.

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Hello.

My name is james renahan and i'm the president of irbs theological seminary in mansfield texas.

The word of god says if a man desires the office of an overseer he desires a.

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James white here co -founder of alvin omega ministries and occasional guest on iron sharpens iron radio.

I'm so delighted my friend chris arnson will be heading down to atlanta for the next g3 conference.

From january 17th to the 19th 2019 we'll all be joining a very impressive lineup of speakers

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My name is steve lawson founder and president of one passion ministries as well as teaching fellow for ligonier

ministries.

I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the master's seminary in los angeles.

I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students andy woodard serves as the pastor.

It's called new covenant church nyc.

They are a reformed baptist church that meets in midtown manhattan.

You can find their service times and location on their website which is www

.ncc .nyc.

They believe in a sovereign god who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.

If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching which is simply biblical preaching

in new york city i'd like to recommend that you visit new covenant church nyc

again.

Their information can be found at www .ncc .nyc.

Have a great day.

Chris sorenson host of iron sharpens.

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His case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal.

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call dan.

Consultations are free there is no fee unless you win.

Dan buttafuco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800

-669 -4878 or email me for dan's contact information

at chris arnzen at.

Gmail .com that's chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Charles heddon spurgeon once said give yourself unto.

Reading the man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own.

You need to.

Read.

Solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart.

The mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com that's

solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or

present you can unearth from solid ground.

Solid ground christian.

Books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio.

Hi i'm buzz taylor frequent.

Co -host with chris arnson on iron sharpens iron radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends todd and patty jennings at cvbbs which stands for cumberland valley

bible book service.

Todd and patty specialize in supplying reformed and puritan books and bibles at discount prices that make them

affordable to everyone.

Since 1987 the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available christian books

and bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly much of what

is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic heretical and

otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors.

Their website is cvbbs .com.

Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence as todd and patty work

in service to you the church and to christ.

That's cumberland valley bible book service at cvbbs .com.

That's cvbbs .com.

Let todd and patty know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio and you could also call

cvbbs .com at.

Toll -free number 800 -656 -0231 800 -656

-0231.

And remember that you can only call that phone line or at least you can only call it and have somebody answer

it monday through friday from 10 a .m eastern time to 4 30 p .m eastern time.

And uh if you mention chris arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio and you purchase a minimum of fifty dollars worth of

merchandise you will receive absolutely free of charge the book always reforming by

david engelsma.

And also uh cvbbs .com is having their christmas sale where they are taking 10

off everything in their inventory.

So that's cvbbs .com.

Cvbbs .com.

And uh i just have a few special announcements to make about special events

coming up that i hope that everybody uh who is capable of traveling to these

events uh will take advantage of.

And i hope to see you there because i will be personally there at all of these events.

Manning and iron sharpens iron exhibitors booth.

First of all iron sharpens iron radio is having their annual.

Actually we've increased it to at least a biannual event um but

we're having our winter pastor's luncheon uh coming up on

thursday january 3rd from 11 a .m to 2 p .m at the carlisle fire and rescue

banquet hall in carlisle pennsylvania.

My guest speaker once again is dr tony costa who is professor of apologetics and islam at

toronto baptist seminary.

He is quite a brilliant uh man of god and quite a powerful speaker and preacher.

And this is an uh open invitation to all men in leadership whether

you are a pastor an elder a deacon or a leader in a parachurch organization

uh you are welcome to attend.

And we are only opening this invitation as i said to men who are in ministry leadership

and it is absolutely free of charge.

Nothing is for sale there.

In fact um every man that attends will be leaving with

one and perhaps even two heavy sacks of brand new books.

Every year the majority of christian publishers of major christian publishers

in the united states in the united kingdom uh each donate 100 copies

of a book that i select of a title i select from each of those publishers so that every man who

attends can get that book.

And uh crown and covenant publications has been one of those faithful publishers who

year after year has been generous to all who attend the iron chirping's iron pastor's luncheon

uh and you'll also eat for free.

There is no gimmick there is no ulterior motive.

It's just intended to bless all those who attend.

And this uh annual or biannual pastor's luncheon uh started with my late

wife julie having a dream.

I don't mean literally a dream but uh she requested that uh since i have so many

pastors who are friends that we have an annual luncheon near christmas time to bless these men.

And it grew so huge that i had to get corporate sponsors involved after a number

of years.

So this will be once again an honor of my late wife julie whose

vision this uh pastor's luncheon was and i'm thankful that she knew that it

came to fruition for quite a number of years while she was still with us.

And if you have uh interest in attending my pastor's luncheon send me an email to chris arnson at gmail .com

chris arnson at gmail .com.

Also immediately following that from friday january 4th through sunday january 6th

dr tony costa who i just mentioned from toronto baptist seminary he will be preaching at a three -day conference that

i have organized at the enola first church of god in enola pennsylvania.

This is also a free conference and dr costa will be speaking on the most dangerous threats to the christian

church in north america in the 21st century.

If you would like to attend this event at the enola first church of god you can call

the enola first church of god at 717 -732 -4253 717 -732

-4253.

And you can also go to enolacog .com that's e and as a nancy o

l a c o g which stands for church of god .com enola c o g .com.

Or you can also email me chris arnson at chris arnson at gmail .com.

And i want to thank my dear friend pastor george jensen of the enola first church of god for

cooperating with me on this event.

Then uh coming up later on in january i am returning once again to

the g3 conference in college park georgia a suburb of atlanta.

The g3 conference stands for gospel grace and glory and the theme this january is the mission of god

a biblical understanding of missions.

And as always they have an enormous impressive lineup of speakers that i

hope that you will take advantage of and come to hear speak.

Uh these speakers include vody baucom steven lawson james r

white john piper mark dever stephen j nichols conrad and bayway

who is the pastor of cubata baptist church in lusaka zambia africa phil johnson of john macarthur's

grace to you ministries uh we have many more on this lineup

uh a list too long to mention.

And the conference will be held from thursday january 17th through saturday

january 19th.

There is a an exclusively spanish speaking edition on wednesday january 16th as well if you want to tell

your spanish speaking and bilingual friends about that.

For more details go to g3 conference .com g3 conference .com.

And i would strongly urge you to register also for an exhibitor's booth just like i will be manning there god willing

because they are expecting four to five thousand people there.

So if you have a business a professional practice a parachurch organization a church or

a special event that you want to promote to a crowd of between four and five thousand people register for

your exhibitors booth at g3 conference .com g3 conference .com.

Then finally uh later on in that same month january from the 24th through 26th

i will be for the very first time uh in the state of mississippi.

I've never been in mississippi before and i'll be manning at booth for iron trip and zion radio at the deep south

founders conference at the bethlehem baptist church of laurel mississippi.

The theme this january at the deep south founders conference is sanctification and the

speakers include rusty reed gerald henderson jason goodwin bobby

crenshaw.

And the keynote speaker again is dr conrad mbaywe of lusaka

of kabwatha baptist church in lusaka zambia africa and chancellor of african christian university.

So delighted that i have those two opportunities to hear my dear friend conrad mbaywe preach my friend

that i've known since 1995 and he is i think the most powerful preacher alive on the planet earth.

For more details on the deep south founders conference go to deep south founders .com deep south founders

.com.

Last but not least if you love iron trip and zion radio you don't want it to disappear.

You benefit greatly from the guests and topics that we have featured on iron trip and zion radio often

guests and topics that are never heard anywhere else.

Please go to iron trip and zion radio .com click support.

Then click click to donate.

Now you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card and you can also mail in a check the old -fashioned way to the address that

you will see appearing on the screen when you click support at iron trip and zion radio .com.

As i try to remember to warn you every day never siphon money away from your regular giving

that you're accustomed to to your local church where you are a member in order to give to iron trip and zion radio.

Never do that.

Never put your family in financial jeopardy by giving to iron trip and zion radio those two things are commands of god.

Supporting my radio show obviously is not a command of god.

But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands and you love the show and you don't

want it to disappear please consider going to iron trip and zion radio .com click support.

Then click click to donate and donate as heavily as you can and as frequently as you can if you love the show

if you want to advertise with us send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line because we could surely

use your advertising dollars.

And if you do not have a church home i have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world.

So please send me an email to chrisarnsen at gmail .com and put in the subject line i need a church home or something similar.

I have already helped a number of iron trip and zion radio listeners find good solid biblically faithful church

homes near them in all parts of the world in the united states.

So please don't hesitate to send me an email.

That's also the email address where you could send in a question to our guest today dr barry j york

on hitting the marks restoring the essential identity of the church.

It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the usa and only remain anonymous

if your question involves a personal and private matter.

And as you uh have in front of you dr york we had our listener

our friend mitch tepper uh who has written in a question.

And mitch's question again uh is and i have to enlarge it again

because he has written in a microscopic font that my 56 year old eyes

have difficulty reading uh and now while i'm enlarging this font our email

address again is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

And here is the question again without mentioning names.

I have heard many feel -good messages self -help messages messages even as dr lloyd

jones was quoted in your book as messages about the gospel but i have

heard very few pastors preach gospel messages on a weekly basis.

I appreciate you taught us well in homiletics classes that we must preach the gospel to our

congregations every week.

So many preachers i know do not see seeker friendly churches as being a bad thing.

I learned from you that preaching should cut to the quick with that being said is the politically

correct seeker friendly preaching hurting the true church growth and revival of.

The church.

Well i've had some time

to think

about.

Yes the political i think

one of the places yes.

And then yeah

in that uh

declaration

it

starts

increasingly

true righteousness.

So

the

worship

of god

spirit of god

is

residing

in the church

at

that

how he

can

meet

the reach

that

gospel.

And mitch added in a follow -up email i also believe it dilutes the

gospel even though many of my pastor friends think not i'm assuming he means the seeker

sensitive approach dilutes the.

Gospel yeah because you're trying to make if you're trying to we

know men really so deep that men really don't

see.

Amen amen.

And i've also

heard it said

that

you cannot

lure

sheep into

the

house.

Of god with goat food.

And uh our friend mitch tepper says.

By the way i love the book.

In fact i'm studying it in sunday school class

starting after the new year.

And he says also.

Miss you barry and chris.

Well miss you too brother.

And looking forward to having you come back on the program.

Uh one thing that uh you said in fact that uh mitch quoted you as

saying from your book is that uh christians should hear the gospel every week

now.

It's interesting.

Uh amazingly.

And of course i know that you are presbyterian and you're obviously not in this certain camp of

presbyterianism judging by what you said.

But i have known presbyterians who will say things like i don't need to preach the

gospel to covenant children.

Or that preaching the gospel in the confines of the gathered body uh

is not the essential thing it's instructing the saints and so on because of the perhaps

even a hyper covenantal view of the covenant.

How do you.

Respond to people who say things like that well anytime you begin to

instruct without a gospel

man's walk in love

you could even

take a

command like walk in

what you see christ

walked in love and gave himself so we got to keep our so

we need to be preached

amen.

In fact

another.

Thing uh about the need to regularly weekly preach

the gospel to even christians in attendance is that we don't

know the hearts of men and there may be false believers in our midst.

That's right that's

right.

Yeah we never know what

came in but i did

not know.

They're leading worship.

I started really thinking in my message is it clear in

it.

Amen.

We're going to

our final.

Break right now.

Uh it's briefer than the last one.

Uh if you'd like to send in a question we do have a couple of people still waiting and we hope that you're waiting patiently

but if you'd like to join us do so now or forever.

Hold your peace because we're rapidly running out of time.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com c -h -r -i -s -a -r

-n -z -e -n gmail .com.

Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence if you live outside the usa and only remain anonymous if your

question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing we will be right back with dr barry j york after this final station break today.

God bless you.

We hope to hear from you with your questions.

Gotta tell you for my money.

Chris arnzen's radio program is just the best iron

criticizing.

I think that's what it's called.

This is todd friel of wretched radio and tv with phil johnson.

Of grace to you inviting everybody to come to the g3 conference which has almost instantly

become one of the best conferences in the country.

And it is.

It's a great conference i love it.

And chris arnzen was there last year.

He's been there i think every year.

It's great to see him there.

You and i actually did some recordings in the.

Lobby at that place which is a highlight.

Tons of stuff going on tons of great speakers and no matter where you are in the building you will hear chris arnzen's

laugh and that's worth the price of admission alone if you would like to join.

Phil me chris and a cavalcade of great preachers.

So it should be a cavalcade of great preachers and me.

G3 conference .com g3 conference .com.

Paul wrote to the church at galatia for am i now seeking the approval of man or of god or am i trying

to please man.

If i were still trying to please man i would not be a servant of christ.

Hi.

I'm mark lukens pastor of providence baptist church.

We are reformed baptist church and we hold to the london baptist confession of faith of 1689.

We are in nofolk massachusetts.

We strive to reflect paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how god views what we say and what we do

than how men view these things.

That's not the best recipe for popularity.

But since that wasn't the apostle's priority it must not be ours either.

We believe by god's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be

vessels of christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of christ in truth and

love.

If you live near norfolk massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship.

You can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528

-5750 or go to our website to email us.

Listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our tv program entitled resting in grace you can find us

at providence baptist church ma .org.

That's providence baptist church ma .org or even on sermonaudio .com.

Providence baptist church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio.

Every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions

coffee shops and local hangouts long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people

who need jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island new york by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following christ.

Long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to

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Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer.

Donate pray or all of the above.

For details call long island youth for

christ at 631 -385 -8333 that's 631 -385 -8333 or

visit liyfc .org that's

liyfc .org.

Hello.

I'm dr kerry kimbrell senior pastor at.

Bethlehem baptist church in laurel mississippi and i'm hoping that many of you who listen to chris arnson's iron

sharpens iron radio program will join chris and me at the deep south founders conference thursday

january 24th through saturday january 26th here in laurel.

If you love god's word and love to hear it powerfully preached i can assure you that you will not be disappointed.

Our speakers at the deep south founders conference this year include rusty reed gerald henderson jason

goodwin bobby crenshaw and our keynote speaker all the way from zambia dr conrad

mbaywe who has received the nickname the spurgeon of africa.

And i for one believe it's a very accurate description of brother conrad.

For more details go to deep south founders .com.

That's deep south founders .com.

I look forward to giving a big mississippi welcome to many iron sharpens iron radio listeners

january 24th through january 26th.

Thank you.

Linbrook baptist.

Church on 225 earl avenue in linbrook long island is teaching god's timeless truths in the 21st

century.

Our church is far more than a sunday worship service.

It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement.

It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people in healing.

We're a diverse family of all ages enthusiastically serving our lord jesus christ in fellowship play and

together.

Hi.

I'm pastor bob waldeman and i invite you to come and join us here at linbrook baptist church and see all that a church can be.

Call linbrook baptist at 516 -599 -9402 that's 516 -599

-9402 or visit linbrookbaptist .org that's linbrookbaptist .org.

Listening to christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually.

Even many of the major christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup

sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics.

If you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to

firstloveradio .org.

They feature christ -centered programming from reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological

soundness and biblical faithfulness such as dr wr downing dr peter masters

pastor joe jackowitz pastor robert gifford al martin edward delcour and

more.

Firstloveradio .org also live streams my iron sharpens iron radio program daily.

Please stick around on firstloveradio .org after iron sharpens iron radio is over to continue

being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the.

Gospel of sovereign grace.

Spread the word about firstloveradio .org.

Charles haddon spurgeon once.

Said give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his.

Own you need to read.

Solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart.

The mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and

future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since it's beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com that's solid

-ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present you

can unearth from solid ground.

Solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio and.

Remember that my dear friend and my very first pastor mike gadosh the founder of solid ground

christian books has experienced a very serious financial setback due to the

fact that he underwent a very dangerous and serious and complicated open heart surgery and

during his time being laid up in the hospital solid ground christian books had

some quite devastating financial losses so please help replenish that which was lost

by ordering as many books as you can from solid -ground -books .com.

Solid -ground -books .com.

Especially with the holidays coming up why not give everybody on your christmas shopping list a book from

solid ground christian books.

In fact even if you want to order from my other sponsor cvbbs

.com carmel and valley bible book service they carry all the solid ground christian books titles.

So if you want go to solid ground christian books website first solid -ground -books

.com make a long list of books that they publish and then go to cvbbs .com and

order those books.

That way you help both of our sponsors solid ground christian books and cvbbs .com.

So please do that and always tell all of our advertisers when you are patronizing them that you heard

about them from chris arnzen at iron sharpens iron radio we are now in our last 20 minutes

of the interview today with dr barry j york of reform presbyterian theological seminary in

pittsburgh pennsylvania we are discussing hitting the marks restoring the essential identity of the church.

If you want to ask a question please do so quickly as we are rapidly running out of time chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com we have an anonymous listener who says.

I have been disappointed in the church where i am a member because of the fact that they only have the

lord's supper once a month and i think it should be more frequently practiced in fact every week

the excuse that is often given has something to do with you.

What you said earlier they will claim that to have it frequently or

weekly makes it lose its specialness.

I don't buy that argument because if we were truly going to carry that argument through logically we would only go to

church once a month and only have once a month worship services to make them more

special.

How.

Do you

respond to this

well

frequency of communion

when i you know jesus

tend to the position that

weekly communion um i don't quite see that in scripture but

i don't seem to do so i think.

Irrigation that's gathered there.

If i was in a setting where i wasn't happy with the frequency of communion help

me to see and

understand study it's

against them.

I definitely

don't think we

should

devalue it by right.

And even though you said that uh it is best not to complain about.

Your elders.

I guess that would all depend upon the manner with which you are disagreeing.

Obviously there's nothing wrong with approaching your elders and with a spirit of humility

sharing your grievances with them recognizing that they are ordained over

the members of the congregation.

And of course they shouldn't be just gossiping or stabbing their elders in the back in

nasty conversation with others that would be sin but there's nothing wrong with bringing these.

Things to the

elders right.

And of course i'm

assuming you didn't

find fault with our

listener because he did remain anonymous.

He didn't.

Yes it seems that that's what he's trying to do.

Well.

Anonymous if you give me obviously off the air and in private your full name and your mailing address

you have also won a free copy of the book hitting the marks by dr barry j york

restoring the essential identity of the church and cvbbs .com will ship that out to you.

And once again we thank our dear friends at crown and covenant publications for their generosity in

providing copies of this book.

Uh well let's move on to one of the least popular topics within

discussions on the church especially since it is a main element in restoring the essential identity of the

church.

It's church discipline which is something that i have heard many people whose

opinions i respect uh have said that it is vanishing and

in many areas has vanished completely from the practice of even churches that claim

to believe in biblical inerrancy and are even conservative.

In many ways there is such a fear of losing people fear of

numerically shrinking that people do not practice church discipline.

But this is not loving to do that.

And by the way dr york you may not be aware of this but i owe my life i believe to

church discipline.

I before i was a christian uh was a very serious drunk

drunkard uh.

And after 18 years of sobriety i fell back into that sinful practice of

over imbibing to put it mildly uh drinking extremely heavily to a very life threatening

level and if it were not for gracious and loving under shepherds in the congregation

where i was a member my pastors who enacted church discipline upon me i

believe i might not be sitting here with a beating heart and oxygen in my lungs.

So uh tell us about church discipline what exactly it is and why

christians should not be so terrified of it that they.

They flee from association with the local body of christ.

Just hear that phrase.

Our minds immediately run to things.

Certainly that's a when the

reformers were looking at what the true church is rome identified the

true church using the qualities of nicene creed oneness holiness apostolicity

catholicity.

And they were they were um tracing all of

those things

following not

the

pope.

So they

uh

vehicle

congregation

is.

We

have

another

anonymous

listener

who

says.

When we speak of the true church how do you deal with differences amongst

brothers in christ that although would not separate them from the body of christ are

still serious.

For instance the host of the show chris arnzen is a reformed baptist his guest is

a reformed presbyterian and they do disagree on issues like baptism.

Does that make one a member of a false church and one a true church etc.

How do we deal with these kinds of issues when trying to discuss the true church.

And

for our

listeners who don't know al meller he is the president of the southern baptist.

Theological seminary in louisville kentucky.

So he is a calvinistic baptist that's right.

That's

right.

And he

talks

about

how

for

instance amen.

And

there there

is at

least

one

denomination.

I know of that does have both pedo baptist and uh credo baptists in leadership.

That's the free presbyterian church of north america free pre -presbyterian church of ulster the

mother church if you will.

In northern ireland they have both men who are credo baptist

or believer only baptists in leadership and pedo baptist.

And if somebody in the congregation for instance wants to baptize their baby they are convicted that that is

biblically faithful practice.

The the the baptistic pastor would be required to call in uh one of

his colleagues that believes in infant baptism to perform the uh the sacrament.

But that is an interesting congregation that seems to manage with both uh.

Well i'd like you now to at least have three minutes where you can

summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today.

In regarding to.

Hitting the marks his disciples

who do people say that i am and they were given a variety of

and

he

gives

to

people

what you bind on earth

to

those

who

remain

under it so

believe

in the gospel or those who have

been in the church.

But then there's overtures that

the tried the

door to

handle

those

men.

We have time

for one more

listener arnie

in perry county pennsylvania.

Who says how do we maintain harmony with brothers and sisters in christ.

Who disagree on how to interpret the regulative principle.

Can a person such as yourself who believes in exclusive psalmody and acapella worship

actually worship with a congregation that uses hymns and

also musical instruments.

How do we settle these kinds of issues.

Answer that in.

A couple of

minutes

but i

try to you

get into a lot of trouble when you begin to get

that engages full.

Well i want

to thank you

so much dr

york

for being

my guest

today.

I really.

Thoroughly enjoyed it.

I look forward to your frequent return as a guest to iron trip and zion radio if you also share that opinion

of your experience.

Glad to come back sometime.

Chris.

Great.

Well i am very much.

Uh would enjoy that.

Uh i want to let our listeners know.

I want to remind our listeners that if you want to learn more about the reformed presbyterian theological seminary in pittsburgh

pennsylvania you can go to rpts .edu rp for reformed

presbyterian ts for theological seminary .edu and if you want to learn more about

crown and covenant publications you can go to crown and covenant .com crown

and covenant .com and of course all of crown and covenants titles are available at cvbbs

.com cvbbs .com which stands for cumberland valley bible books service.

I want to thank everybody who listened today especially those who wrote in

questions and i hope that you all always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ

is a far far greater savior than you are a sinner.