Should Christians Apologize for Supporting Trump?

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01:29

Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the work of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

01:35

We're your hosts, Harrison Kerrig and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we'll answer the age -old question, should

01:41

Christians apologize for supporting Trump? Now Tim, as we kick this episode off, what Bible verse do you have related to the topic at hand?

01:49

Does the Bible mention Trump specifically? Were you able to find anything related to him? There's some verses about the last

01:56

Trump, you know, in the King James, but I don't think those count. Yeah, Romans 13, 7 says,

02:06

Pay to all what is owed to them taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, and honor to whom honor is owed.

02:17

So that may have some relevance to what we're talking about. So, yeah, so it seems like it's essentially saying, the reason you bring that up is because it's specifically saying, hey, pay honor to those who are due honor, right?

02:33

And, you know, political leaders would be one of those, one of those offices that are due honor.

02:41

Yeah, I mean certainly there is a type of respect that is owed to Trump in that way because he is in a position of authority.

02:49

So, I mean, there's certainly that. And then I think certainly it's difficult not,

02:57

I mean, it's difficult to avoid rejoicing in some of the recent decisions he's made as well.

03:03

Meaning, I mean, you put him in comparison to all of your, you know, limp -wristed conservative types that we've gotten for the past, you know, since I've been born kind of thing.

03:15

I mean it's certainly, they certainly seem to be encouraging signs in particular in this last term for sure.

03:25

So there's things that are worthy of respect in the decisions that have been made for sure.

03:32

Yeah, it does feel nice to feel like things are actually getting done. Right.

03:38

And so soon. Unbelievable things. What do you mean, what do you mean, unbelievable things?

03:43

It's just unbelievable. Yeah, a lot of what you see happening right now have been on conservatives list of things to do for years with almost zero expectation that any conservative leader would ever do it.

03:59

I mean, going into office and first day signing an executive order that undoes the past four years of executive orders that were done by the previous administration, that's just smart.

04:13

Right. I mean, it's just the kind of thing that you would, I'm not, it's the kind of thing that, you know, if we're going to be writing all these executive orders anyways, it seems like, yeah, why haven't they done this for years?

04:28

I don't know. I don't know why they haven't done this for years if we're now in this mode. Now, I mean, obviously you're setting a precedent for the next guy who comes into office with a magical pen, wave aside all of your executive orders that you've signed too.

04:45

So there's that. But, I mean, certainly, yeah. A lot of the things that you're seeing right now are things that you, like Sirius talks about abolishing the federal income tax, things like that.

04:57

Yeah, I saw that. You know, it's funny because when he was, when they were, you know, he and Biden were, or he and Kamala Harris, I already forgot about her.

05:11

When they were running, one of the things that he had mentioned. That nightmare is over. Yeah, thankfully.

05:18

I remember it was bad, but I can't remember quite what, like how bad it was. I've already wiped it from my memory.

05:26

But, you know, one of the things he mentioned was the income tax. And my response to that was essentially, yeah, okay.

05:34

You know, sure, sure thing. I bet, you know. And kind of like a pipe, you know, that's a pipe dream.

05:41

Even if you do mean it. It would be borderline impossible to actually get people on board with.

05:48

And then even if you do there, they'll probably find another way to, you know, get theirs basically.

05:54

But I saw, I saw that mentioned, I think I saw it today mentioned. And I was, I was a little, you know, obviously that doesn't mean it.

06:02

It's far from a done deal or a certainty, but then to even see it mentioned so quickly after taking office was definitely an encouraging sign.

06:16

Yeah, I mean, signing all the pardons, pardons for all the J6 people, for the pro -life abortion people, yeah.

06:24

Yeah. I think I saw something about him reassigning 80 ,000 IRS agents to other responsible,

06:32

I mean, just things like that. I mean, yeah, it's hard not to. A return to normalcy, it feels like, doesn't it?

06:38

Yeah. I mean, I saw, yeah, an executive order he signed to put a halt on, or I saw something on X about him putting a halt on all the

06:46

SNAP payments or whatever, which is, you know, food subsidies for people on lower incomes.

06:55

So, yeah, I think that's a broad -reaching kind of thing.

07:02

You have all the immigration stuff that is happening as well, which is unexpected, to say the least.

07:09

So there's just a lot of things that are going on, the changes that are being made at this point.

07:15

Yeah. Yeah, definitely seems very encouraging. But then, you know, obviously

07:20

I think whenever you have someone like Trump who is very, you know, he does seem to get things done, especially right now.

07:31

Man on a mission. Yeah, it seems that way. Like there's just thing after thing after thing, and you can't even keep up with everything that they're getting done right now or that they're at least, like, you know, starting to kick off, and hopefully

07:47

Lord willing will, you know, profit the nation over the next four years. It's hard to keep up with everything.

07:53

But then when you have someone like that, obviously, they're going to be people who strongly disagree with a lot of the work that he's doing.

08:05

They strongly disagree with the attitude that he might have as he's going about doing those things.

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They might, you know, really, really just dislike him as a person. I mean, there's a reason. You know, there's a reason that we have the acronym

08:19

TDS. TDS, yeah. And it seems like it's a legit thing. A legit psychological disorder.

08:28

Yeah, I mean, I heard that they're going to add it into the DSM pretty soon. Might as well be about as real as the rest of this stuff in there.

08:38

But, you know, you do have people that, I mean, rabidly oppose

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Trump at every turn. They utterly hate everything about him, and thus they hate everyone who supports him because they can't stand him so much.

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And so, you know, as a Christian, you look at that and you have to ask yourself, well, why is it that people dislike him?

09:05

Are they legitimate reasons or are they illegitimate reasons? So I guess why don't we start there, and why don't we just talk about why is it that people dislike

09:15

Trump so much? I mean, is it moral failings?

09:21

Is it just they hate what he represents? What is it that they cannot stand about Trump?

09:28

And should we view those as legitimate reasons? Legitimate reasons to have to apologize?

09:38

Yeah, meaning like, hey, they don't like Trump, and those are legitimate reasons that we need to agree with.

09:50

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's interesting because all the evangelicals on the left, they certainly don't feel the need to make all those qualifications and follow over themselves to make those kind of clarifications when they're praising

10:06

Obama or even praising Joe Biden. I mean, it's hard to praise

10:11

Joe Biden because he's not even there. Whoever was ruling in his place, probably

10:18

Obama. Probably Obama. At that point.

10:24

But I mean, yeah, on the left, certainly they don't feel that impulse to follow over themselves and apologize every time they say something nice about the politician of their choice.

10:38

And that just shows that there's something else going on here for sure. But yeah, but I think the thing that really set people off,

10:49

I mean, there's a couple of things, but the thing that really set people off about Trump was that he wasn't nice.

10:59

Yeah. The mean tweets. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So, I mean, he basically ran roughshod over all of their fundamental allegiance to the principles of niceness essentially.

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I mean, that really is what it is. I mean, he certainly comes across as crass and uncouth and he is violating all the current standards of bullying behavior.

11:33

Political correctness. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. As you're living in a society that really is dominated by feminine sensibilities in a lot of ways,

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I mean, Trump is the worst kind of violator of all of those areas of feminine sensibilities.

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I mean, he speaks the language of generalities. He's rude. He's brash.

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He called Rosie O'Donnell a fat idiot. They demanded that he apologize about it.

12:06

Yeah. So, I think he certainly is triggering to the left.

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So, one of the things the left was doing for so many years, they were playing this game where they would essentially accuse conservatives of being racist and sexist and bigots and homophobes and all this kind of misogynist and you have someone like Trump coming along and basically just not caring.

12:33

And they call him that and he calls them fake news back. So, the thing is on the left, they're leveling pejorative after pejorative after pejorative.

12:42

And then on the right, you have a bunch of conservative politicians who make it their ambition to be above the fray, right?

12:49

So, they're above the fray to be perfect models of gentlemen who are nice and respectable in every way possible as they're flinging their food fight on you the whole entire time.

13:04

So, you see the left having no constraint whatsoever following none of these rules that they're setting up as the chief rules.

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And so, they're slinging all their accusations. You're a sexist. You're a homophobe.

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You're a bigot. You're misogynist, whatever. You're racist over and over and over. He calls them fake news and comes up with like silly names to call them.

13:28

Yeah. Like Ron the sanctimonious and all that. But he is an equal opportunity offender with all that.

13:37

But yeah, he certainly violated their standards of political correctness at almost every single point.

13:46

He didn't play by the typical conservative playbook of basically just being insufferably nice.

13:55

And then I think the worst thing he did was he – this isn't actually a bad thing, but in their minds is that when they made all their accusations, he was supposed to apologize and perform the struggle session.

14:07

He showed the country that you don't have to grovel and bow down that way and treat all these things seriously.

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You can just ignore them, and they can just keep on going, and you can just say whatever. So, I think a lot of people were emboldened by that for sure.

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But I think in the minds of many evangelicals, they've adopted that kind of posture where the

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Jesus in their mind is nice, like insufferably nice. Yeah. They really haven't read the

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Gospels at all. So, they haven't read the Gospels like they should. Or when they read them,

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I think they so depersonalize them to the point where you can never actually apply anything that Jesus said to all of his adversaries, to anyone else.

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But yeah, I think evangelicals on a whole, they've lost the notion that there is such a thing as an enemy.

14:59

So, they've taken all these passages like love your enemy as proof that there is no such thing as an enemy.

15:06

And they have a one -size -fits -all approach to communication where the standard of communication that is acceptable for adult men is essentially the standard of communication that's acceptable for five -year -old girls or something like that.

15:20

Yeah. So, he violated all those things. I think that's the primary thing that's triggering them. He's just not playing by the polite rules that he's supposed to play by.

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And so, they feel deeply embarrassed and ashamed to be associated with him at all because he's more like a

15:40

John the Baptist type in that way. And if I say that, I mean, the TDS people will lose their minds because they're unable to understand how analogies work.

15:52

They'll think that what I just said was that he was actually like a prophet, a spiritual leader or something like that.

15:58

Yeah. I'm just describing his manner of communication. That's all I'm saying. He came with rough language and rough mannerisms and I think a lot of that.

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So, it's offensive to them. Now, I would say that leaving all that aside, I think that's the primary nature of the offense they're having.

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But leaving all that aside, yeah, I mean, he's a prideful, arrogant man.

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Yeah, yeah. Look at this great tower that I built for myself.

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He certainly is very prideful. I mean, I think legitimate, sanctified Christians should be off -put, to say the least, by the amount of boasting that he does.

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He speaks the language of boasting. It comes off his lips. He's very familiar with this manner of communication.

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So, yeah, I certainly find that repelling. Yeah, I think people should find that repelling.

16:58

What about his political stances that he's taken?

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Because I feel like I've seen, from people who do not agree with Trump, I feel like I've seen two different reactions to his platform.

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One being you have the sort of Big Eva types who just, for whatever reason, seem to utterly loathe any sort of true conservative stance on an issue, politically.

17:41

It seems like they utterly loathe those things more and more. I mean, you see guys like Russell Moore, and I think it's

17:50

Russell Moore, maybe, that was pushing for mosques being built.

17:57

You're putting money towards things like that. You see the church consistently getting softer and softer and softer on issues like abortion,

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LGBTQ stuff, IVF, and egalitarianism, getting just softer and softer on these issues.

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And now immigration. Immigration is a really big one. It seems like at every single turn, they are constantly opposing whatever

18:36

Trump thinks should be done. But then at the same time, you also have true, legitimately conservative

18:44

Christians who we would probably agree with on most issues that are also taking issues with Trump because they feel like he's not going hard enough on them, specifically abortion.

18:58

Throughout the election season, you saw a bunch of people who were saying, Hey, I'm not voting for Trump because he is not taking a strong stance against abortion.

19:09

And to be fair, based off the statements he was making, he wasn't coming out and saying,

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Hey, I'm going to make it illegal. The most he was doing was saying,

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I'm going to turn it over to the states. And so you did have people who are legitimately on the right who are also upset with him over these things.

19:32

And so do you view either of those as legitimate reasons to apologize for supporting him?

19:42

Certainly on the left, you're leftward -leaning Christians, so to speak.

19:51

I mean, certainly with them, yeah, I'm not suggesting it's all tone, no substance, but I would think that tone is primary.

20:01

So they're looking at tone issues primary. And then, I mean, I think, yeah, they're real issues.

20:09

The game of conservatives for so many years was basically just to be liberals in disguise.

20:16

Yeah, or liberals five years ago. Liberals five years ago, yeah. They're trying to slow the, as the train is falling off the cliff, they're trying to slow the speed down slightly.

20:32

They're not really principled conservatives in any respect whatsoever. So, I mean,

20:38

I think that's been the playbook that most conservatives have painted themselves in to where they're not principled in any way.

20:45

So then when the left sees someone who has a real backbone and has real oppositions and who is really going to take some of these conservative issues and do something with them,

20:54

I think, yeah, there's a meltdown at that point. So, I mean, they called him a

21:00

Nazi for years. I mean, I think a lot of it centers around his agenda, which is the

21:08

America First agenda. And because we've been trained from an early age in the language of multiculturalism, we basically treat, like multiculturalism, globalism, we treat that agenda as if it's the definition of being a

21:26

Nazi, right? Yeah, yeah. So at that point, I do think that there are many people on the left who recognize in him a very real threat to their existence and their way of life and all of their priorities.

21:42

So I think at first it was a tone thing where they're screaming and screaming about tone.

21:50

I mean, there was some substance to it for sure. But I mean, yeah, I mean, one of the best things he did in his early term, and I've been saying this for years, but one of the best things he did was he shined a spotlight on the diversity, equity, inclusion stuff.

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So DEI, man, he shined a spotlight on that. The soccer moms stormed the school boards.

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The evangelical snake oil salesman, you know, like Tabeti. Before that moment, they were pretending like it didn't exist, like it was a boogeyman that conservatives were inventing, that social justice wasn't really a thing, that no one really thought that way.

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And then after that, you know, he very quickly had to defend it because the battle lines were drawn. And I mean, now in his executive order and the first day of office, he's signing an executive order basically removing it from all of the government employment issues and everything else.

22:54

So I mean, certainly he's right now making some pretty bold stands as it relates to DEI.

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He's making some pretty bold stands as it relates to immigration. So yeah, I mean, I think that there's a lot of the stuff he's done related to transgenders, quote, unquote.

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Not as if that's real, obviously, but just to use the word. Yeah, a lot of the things he's done related to that have been very good.

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So yeah, I think people are sick of those things and he's making changes along those lines.

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So he's putting his finger on a lot of the current idols of the ages, of the current age, and he's doing so in an unapologetic way with a brash tone.

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And so all of that combines to really force people to polarize in certain ways.

23:48

And I mean, I think it's good because I think the country is very polarized. Yeah. And a lot of the politicians' impulses in the past has been to try to get unity, but you have two radically different countries here.

24:03

Yeah, I saw a video today of a lady who was upset. I mean, legitimately, visibly angry and frankly disgusted.

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She was sick at seeing someone fly an American flag from their car.

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So it's like if that's the kind of person who disagrees with you politically, they are angry when they see the flag of the country that they live in being flown with joy and pride.

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They just happened to sign the executive order saying that there will be no other flags besides the flag of the United States being flown on federal buildings.

24:48

So I mean, no more rainbow flags, LGBTQ flags and all that. I mean, it's crazy.

24:54

I mean, to live in a country that is filled with so much guilt, so much self -hatred where they hate themselves, their way of life, despite the fact that,

25:02

I mean, the West has been a blessing to the world. America has been a blessing to the entire world.

25:08

Yeah. But there's so much self -loathing, so much self -hatred. We are actively hostile to our heritage, to our country, to anything that would result in us celebrating our identity as a nation or even claiming it as an identity.

25:28

So you certainly have him stepping on a lot of the idols of the age and forcing the issue.

25:35

And I think those are all things that are good, things that are needed. But, yeah,

25:41

I mean, I think at this point, yeah, you do have some very deep divisions related to the substance and not just the tone too, for sure, that are coming out now.

25:53

And there are a lot more clear battle lines, for sure, along those lines.

25:59

So a lot of people are reacting to the issues themselves. But then they are also reacting to the tone, things like that.

26:09

Now what about, like I mentioned earlier, those truly conservative people who are saying, hey, how can you support a guy like this?

26:18

You're talking about the abolitionists. Yeah, specifically the abolitionists. I mean, yeah, certainly the abortion holocaust must end.

26:31

So certainly the abortion holocaust must end. So I think that's a very narrow subset of Christians in the broad scheme of things.

26:42

And I'm not saying that to trivialize the concerns they have. I'm just suggesting that it's a very narrow subset of Christians who are pushing at him in that direction.

26:51

A lot of those Christians are in our circles, I would say, online. Yeah. All it takes is for us to do a post that goes viral to realize how small you are in the world.

27:05

Yeah. You can get in your conservative echo chamber.

27:14

I think a lot of the post -millennial guys, they get trapped in their Twitter echo chamber or whatever where everyone thinks somewhat like them and they fail to realize how small they are in the world and how little their efforts at cultural transformation are really doing.

27:32

But yeah, I think there's certainly some Christians on the right who are legitimately not compromised in pushing at him from the right.

27:46

So I don't think the abolitionist type are never

27:52

Trumpers. They're just kind of principled, prioritizing the abortion issue and saying enough is enough and it's time to make some changes.

28:01

And we refuse to compromise on that end. But that's different than most people who are on the right who are refusing to vote for him.

28:10

But should we apologize for that? Because I have seen a lot of guys online who are, whether they're being contentious or not, they're pointing to the fact that I guess

28:23

Trump has done it. Well, for example, he pardoned the abortion clinic protesters, for example.

28:32

And a lot of people who, a lot of Christians who voted for Trump were pointing to that as a, see, he's doing things in favor of our values.

28:50

And they're looking to the, and there might have been a couple other executive orders or something that I'm not remembering right now.

28:58

I can't remember. But they're looking at some of these examples and then they're saying to the abolitionists, can you just admit that this is a win?

29:11

And so it seems like there's a bit of contention there. And so the question is, hey, for the conservatives who did support him, do we have to, every time we celebrate the win, do we have to treat it as like a yes,

29:27

I know he's not going to abolish it. Yes, I know he's not going to stop it, but at least we got this win.

29:33

Is that the approach we should have? Yeah. Certainly the

29:39

Christians on the left do not engage in this kind of thinking. What do you mean?

29:47

I mean, Thabiti will just praise Obama. If you see what

29:52

I mean, he doesn't feel the need to point out all the obvious areas of disagreement. But, you know,

29:57

Christians have been kowtowed into doing this kind of thing and it's because we love the praise of men more than we love the praise of God in certain ways.

30:06

Meaning the left is so adamant. I need to explain that. People jump to the wrong conclusion.

30:14

But the thing is the left is demanding that we apologize and rake ourselves over the coals for all of Trump's uncouth mannerisms, bad behavior, policies, whatever else.

30:29

I mean, they're doing that nonstop. They've trained certain impulses to where there's an expectation that if you're going to support

30:36

Trump in any way, you're just deeply compromised. But I would say that they don't apply that standard to themselves on the left, is all

30:44

I'm saying. So you have to question the nature of how that standard works. Is that really how any of this is supposed to work?

30:53

I mean, imagine you're under Roman rule. All of your brothers and sisters are being turned into Roman candles on a nightly basis.

31:08

Constantine comes along and signs the Edict of Milan, and now there's no more official persecution of Christians in the empire.

31:18

I think you could just say, yeah, that's good. I don't think you have to at that point say, you could just say, hey,

31:27

I support that, you know, win. I don't think you have to say grovel and do all the, well, you know, he's still doing the

31:34

Sol Invictus coins in everything else. I mean, I'm glad we're not dying anymore.

31:43

I think it's good. I think it's good. Yeah, certainly everything at some level is very complicated.

31:54

Yeah, everything at some level is very complicated, but I don't really think the expectation that any time you support something, you have to make a list of all of your quibbles, it's really unreasonable in a lot of ways.

32:09

Now, I mean, if the quibbles are so significant in people's minds, I mean,

32:16

I guess that's a lot of how you view Trump depends on how significant those quibbles are, right?

32:25

So because they painted him as like essentially a David Duke type or a Hitler type, then a lot of Christians are responding to him like that.

32:35

So they feel like, it's like, well, man, I'm really glad David Duke stopped the DEI stuff, but man,

32:41

I'm really against all that, all the lynching, man. Yeah. But then you have to step back and ask yourself, is there really any of that that's current?

32:52

What are the real, keep it all in perspective. Is the narrative on the left actually right?

32:59

Is it a right narrative at the moment? Is he like a David Duke type? Is he a

33:05

Hitler type? Well, I mean, certainly not. Certainly he's nothing like that in that way.

33:10

Most of the things that are really getting under their skin that are of substance and not of tone are normally the good stuff.

33:19

So, I mean, I'm struggling to think of all the wicked policies that he is shoving down our throat at the moment.

33:27

Yeah. If that makes sense. Now, I mean, I think during his first term, there was a lot of stuff, pro -LGBTQ stuff that should be really repelling too.

33:47

He's certainly not a perfect candidate. So, I mean, I'm mentioning some of those things right now because you're asking me should

33:54

I apologize for all that. Certainly, there's things like that. At the moment, what you see happening looks like a big win list.

34:04

So, I don't know at the moment what all the deeply flawed, compromised things that we're supposed to be deeply ashamed about that are happening at the moment.

34:13

At the moment, it just seems like a big win list. So, I think it's fine to treat it like a big win list.

34:19

Yeah. Right now, it just feels like a, man, win. Christmas. Another win. Another win. It's like Christmas.

34:25

Is this going to keep on going? That's what it feels like. I'm sure he'll do pretty stupid stuff.

34:32

Yeah, I'm sure that there'll be plenty of stuff to lament, but at the moment, it feels like a slur.

34:39

So, you're Christmas morning and opening one present after another. So, I guess, are you allowed to be excited about it?

34:48

Or do you have to say, well, there's going to be some bad stuff eventually, huh? That's funny.

34:56

What about the people who, I don't know that I've seen a lot of this as of late, but that doesn't mean that it's not happening.

35:04

It's probably just I haven't seen it, but I do remember a lot, especially in Trump's first term, there was this sort of group of conservatives that viewed

35:16

Trump as a chosen one or a savior type, or maybe even going so far as to call

35:24

Trump God's anointed. The pictures of him with Jesus and all that?

35:30

Yeah, where he's sitting down, and Jesus is standing there next to him or something.

35:38

I think there's one where Hillary Clinton looks like a demon, and then he's running with the babies in his arm, and Jesus is behind him, shining brightly.

35:53

Basically, painting Trump as a sort of Messiah type person.

36:03

Obviously, the left has critiqued that heavily. Like I said, I haven't seen it as much, but that has been a thing that has happened in the past.

36:11

Honestly, the better he does with this term, the more likely it is that there will be

36:17

Christians tempted to ignorantly portray him as essentially a second coming of Christ almost.

36:29

As people who have supported Trump as Christians, how should we respond to that sort of view of Trump?

36:40

Is that something that we need to apologize for? Every time you say something positive about Trump, does there need to be a qualification for, now

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I don't view Trump as a Savior figure. I don't view him as a perfect person, but he did do good with this.

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Is that something that Christians need to consider? Do we need to consistently condemn those types of images and whatnot that might get shared online?

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I mean, certainly I think there's a lot of blasphemy that happens on the right.

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But there is a kind of person who can see that Trump has done no wrong. And some conservatives have an impulse, particularly at this point, to distance himself from those kind of conservatives.

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And then they make a habit of basically saying everything they possibly can to agree with him so that they can distance themselves from that kind of person.

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I don't feel compelled in that way because I'm not really too concerned about the left.

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I don't care what the left thinks about me. I'm not looking to climb the ladder of the left's institutions.

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I'm not interested in whatever benefits they can give to me. It doesn't matter.

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I could care less what they think. So in that way, I don't have the same kind of impulses to distinguish myself from those on the right.

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I think a lot of that is what's driving that kind of thing.

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I don't think it's just a pure reaction to idolatry on the members of the right. I think it is posturing.

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You're trying to posture yourself as the reasonable one. And I think a lot of conservatives have that impulse to posture themselves as not on the extreme right but the reasonable ones.

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It's some kind of misguided hope that the left will throw them to the lion's last kind of thing.

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That really is what a lot of it's about. It's just this misguided hope of maybe if we'd be nice to them, show ourselves to be reasonable, we could be winsome or whatever, they'll like us.

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But I mean, the religion on the left is a totalitarian religion that seeks world conquest.

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I mean, they're absolutely trying to dominate you and make you submit to their religious principles at every single point.

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So I don't really have an impulse. I don't think we should have an impulse to constantly distance ourselves from those on the right, constantly trying to show that we're different, we're more reasonable.

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But I mean, at the same time, the stuff you're mentioning is real, and there are plenty of people like that who have never seen anything.

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They're going to whitewash anything that Trump does, put it in the best possible light, always defend him, always get his back.

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And at times, at blasphemous ways, describing him as almost a

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Jesus type in certain ways. And yeah, I think that should be repelling. I think that that's fair game for criticism.

39:56

That kind of thing should be thrown under the bus for sure. So should we denounce it every time we see it to make ourselves look as reasonable as possible?

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Yeah, a lot of this is a no enemy to the right kind of discussion in that way to where how much attention do you want to bring to that?

40:20

Is that the most significant danger right now? What are you trying to do with that?

40:27

Yeah, I'm not of the mindset that there should never be enemies to the right. I'm of the mindset that a lot of that stuff should just be avoided and ignored and it moves the

40:37

Overton window so it serves your purpose. I'm not of the mindset that it should never be criticized because it advances the cause.

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But at the same time, I don't feel uniquely burdened to make it my life mission to call that out.

40:54

I think the greater dangers are on the other side at the moment. So for sure,

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I'm not going out of my way. I mean, I typically don't see a lot of that because it's not really happening in my purview.

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And I don't really go out of my way to seek it out and try to confront it. But yeah,

41:15

I think it's gross. I'm not above commenting on how gross and idolatrous it is either.

41:23

So there's that. Okay. Well, I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the episode on.

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So thank you, Tim, for answering all my questions related to that.

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And I think it is a good conversation to have to step back and ask ourselves what exactly.

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I mean, there are plenty of people who would endlessly apologize over their support of Trump.

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And you do have to step back and ask yourself why. Why is that the case?

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And what's the impulse behind that? And is it a good biblical God -honoring impulse or not?

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So it's good to sort of work through those questions and figure out what's going on here and are these legitimate critiques that need to be considered or not.

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So thank you for walking us through that. We want to thank all you guys for supporting the podcast, for listening to us week in and week out, for supporting us financially.

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