April 23, 2019 Show with Jeff Kingswood on “The Person & Work of the Holy Spirit”

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April 23, 2019: JEFF KINGSWOOD, Pastor @ Grace Presbyterian Church of Woodstock, Ontario, Canada, who will address: “The PERSON & WORK of The HOLY SPIRIT” (& announcing Banner of Truth’s East Coast Ministers’ Conference: “I Believe in the Holy Spirit”)

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown
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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,
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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
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Matthew Henry said that in this passage we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.
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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours and we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.
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And now here's your host Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon
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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.
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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 23rd day of April 2019.
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And it just occurred to me that today I have my first Canadian guest since we had our new
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Iron Sharpens Iron Radio introduction recorded and the musicians and the announcer in our opening intro are
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Canadian. As many of you who know a Canadian accent might be able to tell, the announcer pronounces iron, iron.
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And I first noticed that with my friend Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary when he was pronouncing the name of my program
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Iron Sharpens Iron. So perhaps my guest picked up on that as well. My guest today for the very first time ever is
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Jeff Kingswood, pastor at Grace Presbyterian Church of Woodstock, Ontario, Canada, which is a congregation within the
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Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church of Canada denomination. And we are going to be addressing today the theme, the person and work of the
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Holy Spirit. We're also going to be talking about an upcoming Bible conference, the
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Banner of Truths East Coast Ministers Conference on the theme, I Believe in the Holy Spirit, where our guest today,
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Jeff Kingswood, will be on the roster of speakers. But it is my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Pastor Jeff Kingswood.
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Thank you, Chris. Good to be with you today. Well, let's start off, Jeff, by having you tell our listeners something about Grace Presbyterian Church of Woodstock, Ontario, Canada, not only the congregation but also the denomination to which you belong.
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All right. We have existed as a congregation here in Woodstock, Ontario, for the past 18 years, and the core membership of our congregation came out of mainline denominations, dissatisfied with the liberal tendencies within those denominations.
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They called me to be their pastor, and we've grown from that initial group of maybe a dozen families to—we have, on a
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Sunday morning, somewhere around 250 folks worshipping with us. And the
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Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, as some of your listeners might know, is predominantly a southern
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Presbyterian denomination. But there have been some connections and growth here in Canada, and we have 10 congregations at the moment here forming a
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Canadian presbytery. And so it's a Reformed, Conservative, Evangelical Presbyterian denomination.
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And that's something that a lot of Canadians are not familiar with.
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When they think Presbyterian, they think of the mainline liberal denomination. As do many in the
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United States. Yes. Yeah, it's a common misconception. So we often have to begin by explaining our name.
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And the history of it in the Associate Presbytery, and then the Reformed Presbytery in the 1700s in Scotland.
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Yeah, you might also have to explain your name regarding Woodstock, because not only is that a town in upstate
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New York, but also a legendary rock festival. Yes, that's correct. Well, we have nothing to do with that.
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That's a New York State phenomenon that's south of the border. We're Woodstock in Oxford County.
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So very much settled by British settlers, English and Scottish, but the original settlers modeled it on the
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Woodstock in Oxfordshire in the UK. In fact, our town hall is a direct copy of the town hall in Woodstock, UK.
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So that's the origins of the name and of the community here. So it's a very loyalist, a lot of loyalists after the
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American Rebellion in 1776. Came north and settled in this area.
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Well, if anybody listening lives in that area of Canada, or if you are visiting there, or you have family, friends, and loved ones in that area or nearby, the website for Grace Presbyterian Church there in Woodstock, Ontario, Canada is
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GracePresbyterian .ca. GracePresbyterian .ca. I can attest firsthand that our guest today,
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Jeff Kingswood, is a faithful and gifted and powerful preacher. He has preached at the church where I am a member,
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Grace Baptist Church of Carlisle, Pennsylvania. And he has also preached at the
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Banner of Truth conference where I have been in attendance and heard him firsthand preach.
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So I really highly recommend that you take every opportunity not only to hear my guest preach and speak when he is traveling, but also if you happen to be visiting
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Canada, and perhaps you might even want to make plans to visit Canada for the very purpose of hearing
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Pastor Jeff Kingswood preach. Well, let's move on to something.
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Well, actually, before I have you give your personal testimony, which is an Iron Sherpa and Zion Radio tradition, where when we have a first -time guest, we typically have them give a summary of their salvation story, what kind of religion or religious atmosphere, if any, they were raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances our sovereign
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Lord raised up in their lives to draw them to himself and save them. Before we do that,
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I want you to tell our listeners about Banner of Truth, because this is a very important ministry, a publishing ministry and a conference ministry, and everybody should know about the
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Banner of Truth, whether you are Reformed or not. And it's amazing to me, actually, how many people
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I have met that are not even Calvinists, that are outside of the Reformed faith, who have grown to love
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Banner of Truth, even Charismatic and Pentecostal Brethren and Arminian Brethren.
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It's truly extraordinary to learn of this. But if you could tell our listeners about Banner of Truth.
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Banner of Truth is, as you said, primarily a book publishing ministry that began in the mid -1950s, 1955, when
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Ian H. Murray, the founding trustee of the organization, was an associate of Dr.
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Martin Lloyd -Jones in Westminster Chapel in London, and he was teaching a church history course, and he was quoting from the
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Puritans and their successors. And some of the people in the class started asking, where can we get these books?
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Where are they available? And Mr. Murray said to them, well, they're not, they're very hard to find.
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You have to comb through the used bookstores in London and Hay -on -Wye and Edinburgh and see if you can find them there.
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They're not readily available. And so he was encouraged by some of the members of the church there, and Dr.
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Lloyd -Jones himself, to consider republishing some of these. So with a couple of well -to -do members of the fellowship there bankrolling the operation, they published a couple of Puritan reprints, and that was the beginning of the work, and it blossomed and flourished.
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They added a magazine, and that magazine has been in continuous publication ever since.
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The conferences began in the 60s when Mr. Murray and others saw a need for like -minded pastors to be able to gather together.
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And so those conferences began at Leicester in the UK, University of Leicester, that's where the conferences were held.
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And they continue, although now they're in Yarnfield near Stoke -on -Trent in the UK. And then in the 70s, the conferences began in the
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United States, and now they're held at Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, PA.
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So that's a short history of the work we publish. We're most well -known for publishing
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Puritan reprints. A lot of people say you publish dead people.
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We don't only publish dead people. They're easier to deal with than living authors sometimes.
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But we do publish living authors. Many of your listeners will know the names of Sinclair Ferguson, and Ian Hamilton perhaps, or others.
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And these men are active contributors to the catalog of books that we publish.
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Well, I also recently found out that Pat Daly, who is an elder here locally in Carlisle at the
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Carlisle Reform Presbyterian Church, not only is he the manager of sales and marketing, and operations over at the
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Banner of Truth's United States headquarters, but he's your son -in -law. He is, yes. My daughter was blessed to marry
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Pat, and we're very thankful to heaven as our son -in -law, as well as heaven as the... And he wants people to know that he was hired as manager before I became a trustee.
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And I think when I was just about to say, when I just started to say that information about Pat, I think
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I interrupted you. You sound like you were just about to say something. I don't remember what it was,
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Chris. It's nothing that important. That's all right. Well, if anybody would like to attend this upcoming conference that I mentioned before, that is run by the
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Banner of Truth, it's the East Coast Ministers Conference being held at the Elizabethtown College, as our guest just mentioned,
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Jeff Kingswood. Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania. It's going to be held from May 28th through the 30th.
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That's Tuesday, May 28th through Thursday, May 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania.
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And not only will Jeff Kingswood be preaching there, but Terry Johnston... Johnson, I'm sorry. David Vaughn, who's a
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Reformed Baptist missionary in France. Steve Nichols, who is the president of Reformation Bible College, the college founded by the late
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R .C. Sproul and Ligonier Ministries. Michael Morales and Chad Vegas. We just had a wonderful interview on Iron Trip and Zion Radio very recently with Chad Vegas and look forward to him returning often to the program.
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I hope to interview all of the speakers before the event itself occurs.
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Now, I'm assuming that since this is called the East Coast Ministers Conference, that at least primarily ministers are invited.
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Is it exclusively ministers who may attend? It's ministers, elders, Christian workers, missionaries, teachers,
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Christian Bible colleges and seminaries. That's the chief target audience.
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It's meant to minister to men who are in ministry, and it is a conference that is exclusively open to men.
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It is meant to be ministering to ministers. And that's our primary focus.
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There are some theological students who attend and others who maybe are not directly in ministry, but the chief focus of the conference is to minister to ministers.
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Yes, that's exactly how I run my Iron Trip and Zion Radio pastors' luncheons, which my next luncheon is going to be held the week before the
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East Coast Ministers Conference, and I'll be telling our listeners more about that luncheon. A fellow Canadian, whose name
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I just mentioned earlier, is going to be my keynote speaker at the Iron Trip and Zion pastors' luncheon. That's my dear friend,
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Dr. Tony Costa, professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary. And I hope as many men in leadership, whether they are pastors or elders, and I consider those the same office, by the way, deacons, parachurch leaders, seminarians, etc.,
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just basically the same list of people that Pastor Kingswood said are invited to the
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East Coast Ministers Conference. I have the same policy for my pastors' luncheons. I'll be giving you more details about that before the last half hour of the program, or before the last hour of the program,
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I should say. Well, now it's time to have our tradition of having you give a summary of your salvation testimony, what kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in, and what kind of providential circumstances our
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Lord raised up in your life to draw you to himself and save you. Chris, I was blessed to grow up in a
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Christian home. Both my parents are believers, and I had a very godly and faithful pastor growing up for the majority of my growing up years, the same man who was a marvelous expositor of the
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Word of God and a very competent theologian. He took a real interest in all of his congregation, but in me especially, and was feeding me books at a very young age.
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In our home, we had family worship after the evening meals. We were catechized, and we grew up understanding
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Christianity as the norm, and that the promises of God in Christ Jesus were for us, and that when we sinned, as we did, we were directed to Christ to seek forgiveness there.
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And I don't remember a day or an hour in which
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I committed my life to Christ. I remember seasons of growth in high school, being challenged to defend my faith, and really finding that a challenge.
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And then going on to university, a couple of books on thinking
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Christianly and approaching an entire worldview from a
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Christian perspective. Those were times of real growth, but in terms of a relationship with Christ, that was emphasized and taught and encouraged from day one.
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And so I have a marvelous blessing, I guess, of having a fairly dull testimony. You know,
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I've had guests frequently say that on my show, who were raised in a Christian home.
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And you know something? I don't find it dull at all, because when
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I think about the hellish life that I lived before coming to Christ, I am just filled with awe, really, when
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I think of the fact that God, on many occasions, preserves children and protects them from ever having to experience overtly wicked behavior.
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And of course, we have to always remember that every sin, no matter how miniscule we think it is, without the covering of Christ's blood, that sin will send you to hell, even if you think it's trivial.
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But I am always praising God when I hear the stories of adults who were preserved from ever having to go down those dark paths, and were likely saved at very, very early ages.
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And who knows, perhaps even in miraculous ways as infants. But of course,
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I'm assuming you would agree with me. I know that Presbyterians agree with Baptists that we do not believe in baptismal regeneration, but at the same time,
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God saves whom he chooses, and sometimes those are very tiny children that he calls to him.
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Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. No, we reject baptismal regeneration explicitly in our teachings.
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And yeah, we're thankful that the Lord works through means. One of those means is
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Christian families. And I agree with you, I've been tremendously blessed, and it is a blessing to see young people grow up in those contexts in our congregations and see them come to the
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Lord. That's even more of an amazing story in the 21st century.
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Yes, that is so true. It is so true as the distinctions between families that are faithfully following the
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Lord and the world grow more and more stark. It's becoming a more and more glorious testimony, actually, to see families operating in this way, according to the
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Word of God. Well, our theme today, as you know, which is related to the theme of the
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Banner of Truth, East Coast Ministers Conference theme, I believe in the Holy Spirit. Our theme today is the person and work of the
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Holy Spirit. And if you could begin our discussion on that with giving us some key facts about this person of the
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Triune Godhead that must be included in an adequate and biblical description of the
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Holy Spirit. And while you are thinking about that right now, let me remind our listeners of our email address if you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own for Pastor Jeff Kingswood.
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It is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.
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Please give us your first name at least, your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside the
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USA. Please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Perhaps you disagree with your pastor or your congregation where you are a member over what we are saying about the
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Holy Spirit today. And not only would I encourage you to remain anonymous, if that is the case,
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I would insist that you remain anonymous because we don't want to publicly discredit churches that we know nothing about.
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So that might be a reason that you might want to remain anonymous. Perhaps you are a pastor and you disagree with your own denomination.
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Perhaps you've grown in your understanding of the scriptures and you have learned something new that you believe is truly biblical about the
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Holy Spirit and you've renounced or are in the process of renouncing a former flawed view or even heretical view.
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Well, I can understand you wanting to remain anonymous, but if it's not a personal private matter, please at least give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the
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USA. So if you could, what are some of the very important, the primary things that we need to believe about the
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Holy Spirit in order for it to be viewed as a biblically orthodox understanding of this person of the
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Godhead? Right, I think the first thing that we need to emphasize is that the
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Holy Spirit is God. We often focus in Christianity on the great
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Christological controversies of the third, fourth, fifth centuries and the codification of the doctrine of the
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Trinity that took place in those ecumenical councils. But equally important, of course, is the fact that the
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Holy Spirit is a divine person. He is God, fully
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God, and shares in all of the substance and characteristics of the
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Godhead and cannot be separated. And I think sometimes Christians are tempted to think of the
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Holy Spirit not so much as a person but as perhaps the soul of God or the mind of God, or the force of God, and to use
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Star Wars kind of language. But you know, that's a wrong way of thinking of who the
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Spirit is. The Spirit is a person. He speaks, he bears witness, he guides and teaches and sends and forbids actions.
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We see the Apostle Paul speaking in that way about the work of the Spirit. He loves and helps.
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He's a comforter. And we can grieve the Spirit. We can lie to the Spirit. We can insult or resist the
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Holy Spirit. And so we see clearly in Scripture, in Jesus' words, in those very important chapters in John's Gospel, chapters 14, 15, 16, speaking of the work of the
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Spirit and in the book of Acts, we see very clearly that the Holy Spirit is personal and that as the third member of the
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Godhead, he needs to be understood and regarded in this way and not as some sort of ancillary aspect of God's deity, but fundamental to the
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Christian understanding of God as triune. And I think that's probably the biggest area of error.
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And in the sects and cults, you often see that as well. And the other area of controversy probably that is most prevalent is the whole question of cessationism and what we mean by that.
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And I think sometimes when Reformed Christians say that they're cessationists, that our brothers and sisters in other parts of the
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Church might think that, well, we don't believe in the supernatural or that we don't believe in miracles.
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And I've heard a variety of accusations against cessationists to those ends.
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And they say, don't you believe that God can still heal? Well, yes, I do believe that God can still heal.
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Our confession, the Westminster Confession says that God can even work against the normal means to bring about his purposes.
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However, that's not the norm. And certainly individuals are not, in our day and age, spirit -empowered as the apostles were to perform miracles.
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We don't believe that there is ongoing revelation, spirit -given revelation to any individual or group, but that the
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Holy Spirit speaks through the word that he inspired and does that by quickening hearts and minds and not giving us understanding of those words.
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So I think those are probably the two largest areas of error when we start thinking about the
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Spirit, or things that we need to have properly laid down if we're going to have a healthy and profitable, spiritually profitable understanding of the
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Spirit's work. You know, you said something that reminds me of when
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I have visited churches specifically or especially independent
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Bible churches. They're not a part of any fellowship. They're not confessional or creedal.
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They are, you know, very autonomous. Now, I as a Baptist, a
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Reformed Baptist, I believe very strongly in congregational autonomy and the polity of the autonomous church where the elders of a local congregation are only under Christ in their authority, and the
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Scriptures, of course. But the other side of that coin is that there are churches that basically disregard history, they disregard the great creeds and confessions of the church, and sometimes
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I'll look in their bulletin and it will say when they are discussing the
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Holy Spirit or describing the Holy Spirit, they will refer to the Holy Spirit as an it rather than a who or as he.
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Now, should this be a red flag to somebody visiting a church? Oh, absolutely. If a congregation...
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Now, hopefully it's just a failure to be consistent. Right. Sloppy vocabulary.
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That's right. And, you know, I would try to be charitable in granting that, but it's an important thing and we need to emphasize it because we see, as I said in those chapters in John 14, 15, 16, that Jesus sends and the
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Father sends the Spirit and that he will bear witness, he will guide and he will hear and he will declare, he will comfort and teach.
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And Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as he. It's very, very clear.
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And then we see again, as I mentioned, the apostles, the Book of Acts and in the various letters, also using that language that the
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Holy Spirit is mentioned as a person. Jesus says in John 16, 14, that he shall glorify me.
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So if the me of Jesus is to be taken literally, then the he who shall glorify
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Jesus should also be taken literally. It's very obvious.
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I think we really begin to think about it. We're going to go to our first break right now when we return,
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I would like you to list some ways that the Holy Spirit is different from the
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Father and the Son. And if anybody is listening, you could join us on the air with your own questions at chrisarnsen at gmail .com
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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com And as I said earlier, please give us at least your first name, your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the
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USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away.
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We'll be right back with Pastor Jeff Kingswood and the person and work of the Holy Spirit right after these messages from our sponsors.
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This is Chris Arnzen. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is
37:57
Pastor Jeff Kingswood of Grace Presbyterian Church of Woodstock, Ontario, Canada, which is a congregation within the
38:05
Associate Reform Presbyterian Church of Canada denomination, and we are discussing the person and work of the
38:12
Holy Spirit in preparation of the upcoming Banner of Truth East Coast Ministers Conference on the theme,
38:19
I Believe in the Holy Spirit. If you have a question, our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com
38:24
and please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the USA and only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal or private matter.
38:33
As you may remember, Pastor Kingswood, before the break, I asked you to come up with a list of ways in which the
38:42
Holy Spirit is different from the Father and the Son. Right. Well, when we consider the
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Trinity, it's challenging because, of course, it's something that is so much greater than our intellect can fully comprehend, that we're somewhat limited, and even in the direction and teaching we're given in Scripture, it sometimes boggles the mind.
39:12
But as we look at the person and work of the Holy Spirit, we see that the
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Holy Spirit, and I want to be careful in how I phrase this, but in a sense is content to be the mysterious person of the
39:30
Godhead. The Holy Spirit does not draw attention to Himself.
39:36
It's proper to worship and give glory to Him as we do to Father and Son and then
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Holy Spirit. But Jesus says of Him in John 16, in verse 13,
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He says, He will take what is mine and declare it to you. And so we see that the
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Spirit does not want to draw attention to Himself, but He wishes to teach us what
40:06
Christ has taught. And so in the inscripturation of the
40:13
Bible, both in the Old and in the New Testaments, the Spirit is, as we see in Peter testifies to this, and all
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Scripture is God -breathed in 2 Timothy 3 .16, but that word Spirit there, that the
40:28
Scriptures are given by the clear work of the Holy Spirit carrying men, prophets, and apostles along and inspiring them to give the word, and now the
40:40
Spirit speaks through the word. So the Spirit is the revelatory person, if you like, of the
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Godhead. Also, the Spirit sustains and comforts believers, upholds us by pointing us to Christ, but also by ministering to us.
40:59
And we, of course, think of a passage in Romans 8 where we're told that the
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Spirit intercedes for us and when we don't even know what, we ought to be praying. So the
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Spirit in the role of comforter there, parakletos, is the person of the
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Godhead who indwells us and sustains and strengthens us, brings us into mind of the things that Christ has taught by the
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Scriptures, giving the Scriptures and then enabling us to read and understand the Scriptures. So in those ways, the work of the
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Holy Spirit is different from that of the Father or the Son. We have a listener,
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Grady in Asheboro, North Carolina, faithful listener of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and also a faithful financial supporter, and we thank you so much,
41:55
Grady, for your continued generosity to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Grady says,
42:00
Great show, Chris. A lot of times I will end my prayers in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
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Is there anything wrong with this? I believe since they are one and a part of the Godhead, this is appropriate.
42:15
Thanks for your comments. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all, Grady. I think that's fine.
42:22
We are told that the Father hears prayer that is offered in the name of Christ.
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We're explicitly taught that. And we're taught in Hebrews that Jesus lives to make continual intercession for his church.
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So Jesus is the intercessor, the mediator of our prayers. And so it is through Christ that our prayers are heard and received.
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Nevertheless, we are told, as I mentioned earlier in Romans 8, that the
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Spirit has a role in enabling us to pray. And so I think it's appropriate to end our prayers in that triune way and in that formula that we're so familiar with from the
43:12
Great Commission in Matthew 28, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. So I don't think there's anything wrong with that practice.
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And in fact, as long as we're mindful of the fact of the mediation of Christ, that there's nothing wrong with ending our prayers in that way.
43:31
Well, that actually reminds me of a question that people have asked me in regard to the
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Holy Spirit. Is it correct to pray directly to the third person of the
43:45
Trinity, apart from bringing up the other members of the Trinity or other members of the
43:50
Godhead, just to pray directly to the Holy Spirit? Is there anything wrong with that? I think it depends on the context and what it is you're praying for.
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I think if you're praying... Let's begin by looking at, in Matthew, this
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Gospel and the Sermon on the Mount and Luke 11, where Jesus gives the pattern for prayer, the preeminent pattern for prayer, the
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Lord's Prayer, he begins by saying, Our Father, who art in heaven... And so prayer, clearly, is to be, first and foremost, directed to the
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Father. It is made possible by the intercession of the Son and the
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Spirit enables us in our praying. So all three persons have a role to play in our prayer.
44:42
So if we are praying, Spirit, help me pray, or Spirit, enable me to understand the
44:49
Word. I think those are appropriate prayers, as long as they're offered in the context of the fullness of the
44:56
Trinity and understanding that it is the Father and the Son who have sent the Spirit to us.
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And so being careful, I think it's appropriate. I can see, however, how it would possibly be a point of departure theologically from Orthodoxy, where if we make that a practical norm and offer prayer to the
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Spirit, apart from the other persons of the Trinity, that we would begin to have a distorted understanding of the work of the
45:30
Spirit. So with caution, I would say it's possible. However, we need to pray whenever we pray in an understanding of the fullness of the
45:48
Trinitarian personhood of God to whom we are praying. Well, we have a fellow
45:56
Canadian with a question, and he's not only a fellow Canadian, he is a blood relation to my guest today, my dear friend
46:04
Sy Ten Bruggenkate. Did I pronounce that correctly? You did, actually, yes. That's challenging.
46:11
Yes, and I love fellowshipping with this dear brother and interviewing him, and hopefully my webmaster will have
46:19
Sy's interview from the recent G3 conference. Well, it wasn't that recent, it was last
46:24
January. I interviewed Sy right on site there, among other folks, and I have to get those interviews posted on our website as soon as possible.
46:35
But Sy, he's doing you a big favor here because he wants to advertise one of your books.
46:41
He says, ask my cousin about From the Lips of Little Ones, a study in the catechism for very little people.
46:52
Right. In the 1800s, there were a flurry of catechisms that were produced, but there was one that came to be known as the children's catechism in the middle of the 19th century, and it was based on the shorter catechism, and there are a couple of versions of it out there now.
47:13
Great Commission Publications has a version of it. But I took the 1840s version and wrote a series of devotionals that took a couple of the questions at a time and gave parents a
47:31
Monday to Friday pattern for family worship where they would catechize the kids in the questions, where they would look at scriptures that clarified the questions, gave context for the questions, and then enabled the kids to have a couple of scripture verses to hang those questions on so that the catechism hopefully was driving them back to scripture.
47:58
And so this was an exercise I did for our Sunday school, and at the end of it,
48:05
I had a complete set of studies. I think it'll last you a couple of years if you work through it.
48:14
And so when grandkids were born, my daughter came to me and said,
48:20
Dad, do you still have those Sunday school lessons? And I said, yeah, I do. It was on some archaic computer format, but we found someone who could retrieve it for us.
48:29
And she did some editing work with me on it and Crown and Covenant Publications graciously agreed to publish that.
48:40
And so it's a Monday to Friday devotional help for parents. It works through all the major doctrines of the scriptures and enables children to have a framework in their minds.
48:55
We offer Bible prizes for children who memorize the whole of it in our congregation.
49:03
And we have had kids as young as four go through and recite all 145 questions of the catechism.
49:12
And so it's been a very rewarding and blessed tool in our own family and in the life of the congregations here.
49:23
And I've heard from many people who have dropped me notes or spoken to me at conferences that it's been used aboard.
49:31
So I'm very thankful for that. Well, we have to have you come back on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to discuss that book.
49:38
And when we go off the air today, I will send you a calendar of other dates where you can return if you are so desirous.
49:45
And we can focus on that book. The folks at Crown and Covenant Publications have been very generous to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, providing us free giveaway books for our listeners.
49:57
So we are always very grateful to them and always willing to help promote them whenever we can.
50:04
And Cy, thank you so much for the question. And Cy did not ask me to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway.
50:11
His website is proofthatgodexists .org, proofthatgodexists .org.
50:19
He is, for those who are really died -in -the -wool, die -hard presuppositionalists,
50:28
Cy is one of the greatest living thinkers out there defending that form of apologetics.
50:36
And he is a brilliant brother and really fascinating to hear him debate and to hear him explain how we can know that God exists, how we can know this word is true.
50:50
So look that up, proofthatgodexists .org. Thank you very much, Cy. And I look forward to, hopefully,
50:56
God willing, seeing you in January at the G3 conference as I normally do. We have to go to our midway break right now.
51:05
Our midway break is longer than the normal break because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1
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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of our show because they air
51:16
Iron Trip and Zion Radio twice a day in a pre -recorded format and they have to localize our show to Lake City, Florida, with local public service announcements and local commercials.
51:27
So while they air their announcements, we air our global announcements.
51:33
And so during this break, please use this time wisely. Write down questions, of course, for our guest Jeff Kingswood to chrisarnson at gmail .com.
51:41
But also write down the information provided by our advertisers because the more you know about our advertisers and are able to quickly and regularly contact them, the more likely you will frequently patronize them.
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And that's going to further ensure that our advertisers remain our advertisers because we will not exist without the financial support of our advertisers.
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So please try to patronize them as often as you can if, indeed, you want Iron Trip and Zion Radio to remain on the air.
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So also, as I said, send us an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com
52:23
if you have a question for Jeff Kingswood on the person and work of the Holy Spirit. Don't go away,
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God willing. We're going to be right back after these messages from our sponsors. Tired of bop store
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Hi, I'm Stephan Limbled, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.
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I accepted this call to teach at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God in the churches of our
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Lord Jesus Christ need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. I'm excited to be teaching such subjects as the nature of theology and the doctrine of Scripture, and even the doctrine of the person and work of Jesus Christ.
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Our churches and our people need to be well grounded in these truths. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths in order to proclaim them to all of God's people.
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If you want to learn more about our program, visit us online at irbsseminary .org.
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Hi, I'm Stephan Limbled, Assistant Professor of Systematic Theology at IRBS Theological Seminary in Mansfield, Texas.
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I'm excited to be teaching at the seminary because I'm firmly convinced that the people of God need to be firmly grounded in the truth of Holy Scripture. in order to proclaim them to all of God's people. Indeed, future ministers of the gospel need to understand these truths
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That's chrisarnson at gmail .com. Did you know that all believers are priests?
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In 1 Peter chapter 2 verse 9, the Apostle Peter describes Christ's church as comprising a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
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Visit CitizenPriest .com today. James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.
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I serve as professor of preaching and oversee the doctor of ministry program at the Master's Seminary in Los Angeles.
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I would like to recommend the church where one of my preaching students, Andy Woodard, serves as the pastor.
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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown
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Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc
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.nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.
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If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit
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New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc
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Welcome back. This is Chris Arns. And if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with about an hour to go is
01:03:28
Pastor Jeff Kingswood. And we are discussing the person and work of the
01:03:34
Holy Spirit. Before we return to our discussion, I just have some important announcements to make in regard to special events that I hope that you who are listening can take advantage of.
01:03:46
Mark your calendars for tomorrow. We have a returning visit to a man that I've only interviewed once, and I really enjoyed every second of my interview with him.
01:03:58
And I've heard him preach on a number of occasions, and I also was thoroughly blessed at each and every one of those occasions.
01:04:04
I'm speaking of Jeff Thomas. Jeff Thomas retired from the pastoral ministry in Wales and now committed full -time to itinerant evangelism and writing.
01:04:15
Jeff Thomas is going to be discussing the life and ministry of Dr.
01:04:21
Martin Lloyd -Jones tomorrow, 4 to 6 p .m., here on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio.
01:04:27
That's 4 to 6 p .m. Eastern Time. And he's also going to be speaking at an upcoming conference, which
01:04:33
I'm going to be mentioning in just a moment. Then, after that, this weekend,
01:04:39
I am going to be manning an Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio exhibitor's booth, once again, at the
01:04:45
Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology. The theme this weekend for this very wonderful conference is
01:04:52
Redemption Accomplished and Applied. And the speakers include D .A. Carson, Kevin D.
01:04:58
Young, Liam Golliger, who was just my guest on Monday on this program, and David Murray, who's been a guest a number of times on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, a professor at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
01:05:13
The conference is being held this Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, that's the 26th, 27th, and 28th of April, at the
01:05:22
Proclamation Presbyterian Church in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. If you would like to register for this event, or there,
01:05:31
I should say, a website is alliancenet .org. That's the website of the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals.
01:05:38
Alliancenet .org, click on events, and then scroll down to the Philadelphia Conference on Reformed Theology 2019.
01:05:46
And by the way, the workshops also include my friend Joe Thorne, who's been a guest a number of times on Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, and Ian Hamilton as well.
01:05:57
Looking forward to meeting them both face -to -face for the first time. Uh, then coming up after that, uh, the
01:06:06
Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio, oh, actually, I'm sorry, before that, before that, uh, the, uh,
01:06:14
Protestant Reformed Seminary is running their conference celebrating the 400th anniversary of the
01:06:22
Synod of Dort. That is called Dort 400, Safeguarding the Reformed Tradition.
01:06:28
That's this week as well, April 25th through the 27th, that's Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, at the
01:06:35
Trinity Protestant Reformed Church in Hudsonville, Michigan. And the speakers include, uh,
01:06:43
Ronald Kaminga, uh, Professor Barrett Gritters, uh, Reverend Brian Huizinga, Professor Doug Kuyper, Reverend Bill Langerak, and, uh,
01:06:56
Reverend Mark Shand, and also Reverend Angus Stewart. That is in celebration of the 400th anniversary of the
01:07:04
Canons of Dort at the Trinity Protestant Reformed Church of Hudsonville, Michigan.
01:07:10
If you want more details on how to register for that, and this is absolutely free of charge, by the way, uh, go to Dort400 .org,
01:07:17
and there's two D's in Dort, so don't forget that, D as in David, O -R, D as in David, T as in Thomas, 400 .org,
01:07:25
Dort400 .org, and I hope that if you live in that area, you can make it to that conference.
01:07:31
Then after that, uh, on Thursday, May 23rd, I'm going to be having, as I mentioned earlier in the program, my spring
01:07:40
Iron Sherpins Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon, featuring Dr. Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary, where he serves as the professor of apologetics in Islam, and he is going to be speaking on how the
01:07:53
Dead Sea Scrolls vindicate the reliability of the holy scriptures. That's Dr.
01:07:59
Tony Costa at the free Iron Sherpins Iron Radio Pastors Luncheon, Thursday, May 23rd, 11 a .m.
01:08:04
to 2 p .m. at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.
01:08:10
All men in ministry leadership are invited, uh, just as we were saying earlier, the same criteria for those who may attend the
01:08:20
East Coast Ministers Conference of the Banner of Truth. I have those same qualifications that were actually laid down by my precious late wife,
01:08:28
Julie, in the 1990s, who started my Pastors Luncheons, and they continue on in her memory after she has gone home to be with the
01:08:36
Lord for eternity, and she made it clear that she only wanted men in ministry leadership to be there, and whether you are a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, and also there is nothing for sale there.
01:08:54
There's all the books that we have on display there are gifts to the pastors that have been donated by nearly every single major Christian publisher in the
01:09:04
United States and the United Kingdom. Each man leaves that event with a heavy sack of at least two dozen books, typically.
01:09:13
These books have been personally selected by me from each publisher. Each publisher donates a hundred books, a hundred copies of the title
01:09:21
I select so that every man in attendance can leave a copy of that title that I select.
01:09:28
So there's quite a lot of books there for our guests to leave with in a sack, and we hope that you are able to attend.
01:09:40
It's absolutely free of charge. No hidden agenda or ulterior motive. If you would like to attend the
01:09:47
Iron Sharpens Iron Radio free minister's luncheon, go to, or should
01:09:52
I say, email me at chrisarnsen at gmail .com chrisarnsen at gmail .com
01:09:58
and put pastor's luncheon in the subject line. Then after that, the aforementioned
01:10:04
East Coast Ministers Conference of the Banner of Truth is being held from the 28th of May through the 30th.
01:10:11
That's Tuesday through Thursday, May 28th through the 30th in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania at the
01:10:17
Elizabethtown College. The theme is I believe in the Holy Spirit and our guest today on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Jeff Kingswood is one of the speakers and he will be joined by Terry Johnson, David Vaughn, Steve Nichols, Michael Morales, and Chad Vegas.
01:10:33
If you would like to register for the East Coast Ministers Conference, go to banneroftruth .org, banneroftruth .org.
01:10:40
Click on events and then scroll down to East Coast Ministers Conference. Then after that, the
01:10:47
Foundations Conference is being held in New York City on December 19th and 20th.
01:10:52
I intend to be there as well. I love this conference and I love the fact that it is in New York City, a place that needs biblically sound
01:11:03
Bible conferences more than any other location I can think of in the world. They have a wonderful roster.
01:11:10
Dr. Stephen J. Lawson will be speaking there, God willing, a founder of One Passion Ministries. You heard him earlier advertising
01:11:17
New Covenant Church NYC, one of our sponsors here on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. He is one of the finest preachers alive today.
01:11:24
Another one of the finest preachers alive today is Paul Washer. He is on the roster. The aforementioned
01:11:31
Reverend Jeff Thomas, who is my guest tomorrow on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio to discuss Martin Lloyd Jones.
01:11:36
Jeff Thomas will be speaking at this conference. A really bright light in the
01:11:43
Reformed faith, a young man named Reverend Armand Tomassian is on the roster.
01:11:49
I predict that within the next decade, he's going to be a household name amongst Reformed Christians because he is just extraordinary.
01:11:57
He has gifts and abilities and wisdom far beyond his youth.
01:12:03
Reverend Armand Tomassian, I can't sing enough praises about this dear brother.
01:12:08
In fact, he rebuked me once for going overboard on Facebook, describing how much I was blessed by him.
01:12:13
He thought that I was dabbling in inflating his ego.
01:12:19
He rebuked me for going overboard. Richard Caldwell Jr., I have not yet heard preach.
01:12:25
And Andrew Quigley, I have not yet heard preach. They are also on the roster. But Sermon Audio is very discerning and very particular.
01:12:34
They are running this conference, sermonaudio .com. So if they are on the roster, they must be very gifted men indeed.
01:12:42
So if you would like to attend this conference, go to thefoundationsconference .com, thefoundationsconference .com,
01:12:49
and you'll have all the details that you need. I would do so as quickly as possible. I would register, I should say, as quickly as possible if you plan to attend, because this venue can only hold a little less than 200 people.
01:13:02
So I would strongly urge you to register as soon as possible, if you intend to go.
01:13:09
Then coming up in January, I am once again going to be packing my bags and heading down south to Atlanta, Georgia, to attend the
01:13:19
G3 conference being held once again at the Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, which is a suburb of Atlanta.
01:13:29
The theme this January at the G3 conference is worship. And the speakers include
01:13:35
Kosti Hinn, that's H -I -N -N. And if that name sounds familiar, and in a bad way, you're right.
01:13:45
He is related, believe it or not, to Benny Hinn, the notorious charlatan televangelist and so -called faith healer.
01:13:56
Kosti Hinn is Benny Hinn's nephew and has repented of the Word of Faith movement and is a
01:14:01
Reformed Baptist pastor now in California. And he's a Sassationist as well. And he has become a friend of mine.
01:14:08
I've had him on this program. And I'm actually the one who told Josh Bice of the G3 conference about Kosti and urged him to invite him to speak.
01:14:17
And Kosti Hinn is on the roster. David Miller is on the roster. Derek Thomas, every lover of Banner of Truth, is likely familiar with that name.
01:14:28
My friend, Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries. Joel Beakey, who is the president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary in Grand Rapids, who is also a dear friend of mine going back to the 1990s.
01:14:45
Josh Bice, who is the founder of the G3 conference. Paul Washer, who
01:14:51
I mentioned earlier, who's going to be preaching in New York City. He's also at the G3 conference this
01:14:56
January. And so is Stephen J. Lawson. Tom Askall, the president or the executive director, perhaps, of the
01:15:04
Founders Ministries. And Vodie Baucom, who is now serving in Africa alongside of Conrad Mbewe at African Christian University.
01:15:17
Vodie Baucom, what an extraordinary preacher he is. If you would like to register and be able to attend this wonderful conference, that over 5 ,000 people typically attend the
01:15:28
G3 conference, go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com.
01:15:34
And the event is actually, the dates are Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 19th.
01:15:43
I'm sorry, January 18th. So that's Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th at the
01:15:50
Georgia International Convention Center in College Park, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta. Go to g3conference .com,
01:15:56
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01:18:33
We are now back with our guest and this has been such a wonderful interview.
01:18:39
I'm looking forward to having our guest back on again, not only in the near future, but many times.
01:18:47
Jeff Kingswood, pastor at Grace Presbyterian Church of Woodstock, Ontario, Canada. We are discussing the person and work of the
01:18:53
Holy Spirit. And if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:19:00
chrisarnson at gmail .com. And Pastor Jeff, you and I are Reformed. You're a
01:19:06
Presbyterian. I'm a Reformed Baptist. Can you think of ways which the theologically
01:19:11
Reformed community has had a superior approach to the subject of the Holy Spirit to those outside of our
01:19:18
Calvinistic circles? Hmm, superior approach. That's an interesting...
01:19:24
Um, more biblically faithful, perhaps. Yeah, I know what you're getting at there.
01:19:32
It's interesting. Sometimes people caricaturize us as Reformed Christians as sort of being cold and unfeeling and rationalistic.
01:19:43
And, you know, if you go to the roots of the Reformation and you look at the men who were used by God in the 16th century to transform the church life of that age, they were scholars and students of the
01:20:04
Holy Spirit. It's been said of John Calvin that he is the preeminent scholar of the
01:20:11
Holy Spirit. And if you read the Institutes and his commentaries, you see again and again and again his adoration for God, the
01:20:22
Holy Spirit, and his desire to see the work of the
01:20:27
Holy Spirit in the church, to see the church quickened by the work of the
01:20:34
Spirit. And that is true of his successors as well.
01:20:40
As you go through the confessional history, some people have criticized the Westminster and, of course, then the
01:20:46
London Baptist confessions for not having clear statements, you know, a separate paragraph, if you like, or chapter, dealing with the
01:20:55
Holy Spirit as a person. And yet, if you read those confessions, you see again and again, just as you do with Calvin, that the work of the
01:21:04
Spirit, the person of the Spirit, is found throughout those documents. They understand the totality of systematic theology and the
01:21:16
Christian life and God's revelation to us as utterly dependent upon the
01:21:23
Holy Spirit and that the Spirit's work is so absolutely necessary in our conversion that that regenerating work of the
01:21:34
Spirit enables us to believe. Without the Spirit, we can't believe. And so, our
01:21:39
Reformed understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit is really a
01:21:45
God -glorifying, Spirit -centered understanding of his work.
01:21:52
And you can't understand Reformed soteriology or sanctification, any of it, without understanding that the
01:22:03
Spirit's work is central to that. Yes, we believe that a lost person, or even anybody, whether they're lost or saved, we as humans are even more dependent upon this person of the
01:22:20
Godhead than those that put the Holy Spirit in the forefront, at least in their vocabulary very often, who are
01:22:29
Pentecostal and charismatic, who tend to be Arminian, not all of those folks, especially in the 21st century, are
01:22:36
Arminian, but predominantly they are. And yet, when they say that we are devoid of the
01:22:43
Spirit and spiritually dead and there's no Spirit there, etc., we are more dependent upon the
01:22:48
Holy Spirit than they are, aren't we? Absolutely, absolutely. If you want to read a really good treatment of this,
01:22:55
I would recommend to you a book by E .H. Murray, Man of Truth publication, called
01:23:01
Revival and Revivalism. And it's a study, actually, of revivalism, true revival in a
01:23:11
Biblical sense and a historical sense, and then compare and contrast it with a revivalism that pays lip service to the
01:23:18
Holy Spirit, but which actually corrupts and undermines a
01:23:24
Biblical doctrine of renewal and revival. Yes, I believe Brother E .H.
01:23:30
Murray focused on the lives of two very different people. You had Asahel Middleton, who was a
01:23:35
Biblically faithful evangelist, and you had Charles Finney, who was a very heretical one, and he compared and contrasted their ministries and the results of the fruits of their ministries side by side.
01:23:48
Yeah, absolutely. And so if you want to see an understanding of, you know, a classical
01:23:54
Biblical understanding of the work of the Spirit and regeneration and building the Church, and then the corrupted one, it's a tremendous contrast.
01:24:03
And I think it should be required reading for all theological students, if not all serious
01:24:09
Christians. Amen. Well, you know, you mentioned before, and we both mentioned, that those outside of the
01:24:18
Reformed faith, perhaps even especially those who are not cessationists, Charismatics and Pentecostals, have ridiculed and mocked
01:24:27
Reformed folk for appearing any way to, at the very least, to being devoid of the
01:24:33
Spirit. But I don't think that we could honestly say and maintain our integrity that we are never guilty of appearing that way.
01:24:42
I mean, can you mention some ways in which Reformed Christians have unfortunately fallen into in regard to our approach to the
01:24:52
Holy Spirit deficiencies that sometimes we unfortunately deserve the ridicule that we receive?
01:25:02
Yeah, we're famously described as God's frozen chosen. You know, that sadly sometimes is true.
01:25:10
I think there are a couple of reasons for that. I think the cerebral aspect of the
01:25:18
Reformed faith, that it can be an intellectual experience, and there is certainly a segment of the
01:25:30
Reformed church that is rationalistic and devoid of a
01:25:38
Spirit -bred, Spirit -filled faith, and it just becomes a cold and sterile academic exercise.
01:25:50
And that, of course, is not Biblical Christianity. We talk about dead orthodoxy, but it is dead and it's not orthodox.
01:26:01
That's one caricature. And the other thing is, I think, in the 60s and 70s, you had these
01:26:09
Charismatic renewals and revivals in a number of denominations. And I think
01:26:14
Reformed Christians were rightly skeptical and perhaps even a little intimidated by these things, and so reacted against them and got their back up, and anything that even hinted of it was quickly quashed and pushed aside.
01:26:30
And, you know, we can err in both directions. I think what we need to do is recover a
01:26:40
Biblical understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit and a thoroughgoing acquaintance with this person of the
01:26:50
Trinity that we often lack, because it's not explicit.
01:26:55
It's not explicit in our confessions, but it's implicit throughout. So as we begin to really appreciate the nature of our conversion, our dependence upon the
01:27:12
Spirit, we will become more vibrant believers. And I think that's something that, as Reformed Christians, we need to be striving after.
01:27:23
We can't be content with either a cerebral knowledge or a dead orthodoxy.
01:27:30
We need to cry to the Lord that we would be vibrant living
01:27:37
Christians and that our lives would be lives of doxology, of praise to God, because we see that He has ministered to us in this way by the
01:27:50
Spirit, both in regeneration and sustaining and eventually glory. But that all of that, we emphasize union with Christ.
01:27:59
You've mentioned redemption accomplished and applied at the title of a conference. I was thinking of John Murray's great work and his emphasis on union with Christ.
01:28:09
Well, that union with Christ is absolutely fundamental, but so is, because of that, the indwelling work of the
01:28:16
Holy Spirit and believers, and the two can't be separated. And we need to emphasize that both in our preaching and in our living as Reformed Christians.
01:28:26
We have Arnie in Perry County, Pennsylvania, who asks,
01:28:33
Is there a difference between being baptized by the Holy Spirit and being filled with the
01:28:39
Holy Spirit? And are the Pentecostals right that Christians can not have either one of those, or do all truly born -again, truly regenerate brothers and sisters in Christ have both of these?
01:28:57
All Christians have both of those things. The Ephesians 1, the
01:29:04
Apostle begins the doctrinal portion of that letter, begins the whole letter with this sustained praise for the glory of God's grace.
01:29:15
And he talks about a beginning from before eternity in verse 4, and then just traces it out in God's plan and purpose.
01:29:23
And in verses 13 and 14 there, he talks about the Spirit enabling us to hear and to believe, and that the moment that we hear and believe, we are sealed by the
01:29:34
Holy Spirit. The Spirit marks us, sets us apart, indwells us. And so this idea that there is a separation in between regeneration and the subsequent work of the
01:29:48
Spirit is false. We don't have a second blessing or a
01:29:54
Catholic theology or what some of the Charismatic groups talk about, a baptism in the
01:30:00
Spirit. Every Christian who is regenerate, his regeneration is the result of the
01:30:07
Spirit's work, and the Spirit sealing and indwelling. And then, as we're told by the
01:30:13
Apostle Paul in the Corinthian letter, that we become the dwelling place of the
01:30:19
Holy Spirit, the building blocks of the temple of God, the spiritual stones.
01:30:28
It's inseparable. And so to make those distinctions, those are unbiblical distinctions.
01:30:35
And there are a number of reasons they've arisen in Pentecostalism, mostly a reaction against the deadness that they see in institutional
01:30:44
Christianity. But it's a wrong, wrong understanding of the work of the
01:30:50
Holy Spirit. We have John in Bangor, Maine, who says, you mentioned
01:30:56
Dr. Martin Lloyd -Jones earlier. Dr. Martin Lloyd -Jones has been adopted by our
01:31:02
Charismatic and Pentecostal brethren as being one of their own. Is this true?
01:31:08
And if not, did anything Jones believed about a second blessing lead to this misconception?
01:31:17
Yeah, I may get kicked out of the Banner of Truth for this, but I think that Lloyd -Jones did have some sympathies with the
01:31:34
Keswick movement and sort of a second blessing feeling.
01:31:39
Now, if you'd pushed him, I'm sure he would have clarified. He said, no, no, of course not. But unfortunately, he wrote some things that are at least ambiguous and Charismatic that seized upon some of these writings and his work on the
01:31:55
Holy Spirit and made them their own. Whether or not the doctor would have gone along with that is up for debate.
01:32:05
But I would urge Christians to be cautious. Lloyd -Jones in his exposition of the biblical books,
01:32:17
Ephesians and Romans, very sound, very clear on the work of the Holy Spirit.
01:32:22
But there is one book on the work of the Holy Spirit that leaves some things, as I said, at least ambiguous.
01:32:31
And so I would urge caution there. But he certainly was no
01:32:36
Charismatic. Do you think the fact that, from what I understand, Dr.
01:32:42
Jones was a Calvinist Methodist, could his Methodism have anything to do with this understanding that he had of a second blessing?
01:32:48
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the case, Chris. I think you've nailed that.
01:32:57
And revivalism, the Welsh revivals, certainly left their mark on his thinking, his understanding of the work of the
01:33:07
Spirit. And all of that, you know, those things are contributing factors, absolutely.
01:33:15
Well, we have to go to our last break. This is much more brief than our previous break.
01:33:21
So if you have a question that you'd like to ask of our guest, Jeff Kingswood, please email it to us as quickly as possible at chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:33:31
chrisarnson at gmail .com. We are running out of time, and we would love to have your question if you intend to ask one.
01:33:39
We do have some folks waiting in line to ask questions, as it were.
01:33:44
So please be patient with us, and we will try to get to as many of your questions as time will permit.
01:33:51
But our email address, again, is chrisarnson at gmail .com. chrisarnson at gmail .com.
01:33:57
As always, give us your first name, at least, your city and state, and your country of residence, if you live outside the USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.
01:34:05
Don't go away. We'll be right back with Pastor Jeff Kingswood and more on the person and work of the
01:34:10
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It's called New Covenant Church, NYC. They are a Reformed Baptist church that meets in midtown
01:43:58
Manhattan. You can find their service times and location on their website, which is www .ncc
01:44:06
.nyc. They believe in a sovereign God who commands all men everywhere to repent and believe the gospel.
01:44:13
If you're looking for a church that believes in expository preaching, which is simply biblical preaching, in New York City, I'd like to recommend that you visit
01:44:23
New Covenant Church, NYC. Again, their information can be found at www .ncc
01:44:30
.nyc. Have a great day. They feature
01:45:11
Christ -centered programming from Reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness, such as Dr.
01:45:20
W .R. Downing, Dr. Peter Masters, Pastor Joe Jackowitz, Pastor Robert Gifford, Al Martin, Edward Delpore, and more.
01:45:30
Firstloveradio .org also live streams my Iron Sharpens Iron radio program daily.
01:45:35
Please stick around on firstloveradio .org after Iron Sharpens Iron radio is over to continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace.
01:45:46
Spread the word about firstloveradio .org. The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference
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Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues.
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From compact giant print Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com.
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Whichever edition you choose, trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. Go to nasbible .com.
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That's nasbible .com. And please, folks, don't forget if you are in a position of authority in your congregation where you can make decisions regarding the purchase of pew
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01:47:03
Iron Sharpens Iron radio remain on the air, go to those people, whether they be your elders or deacons, and ask them or discuss with them the possibility of replacing your pew
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Bibles that are falling apart, pages are falling out every time they're opened, they're filled with children's graffiti very often, or sometimes a congregation outgrows a particular translation.
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Perhaps you want a modern translation that is more faithful to original languages.
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Please consider replacing all of your pew Bibles in your church with a new American Standard Bible, and by doing so you also help
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Iron Sharpens Iron radio remain on the air, because they have been faithful supporters of this program financially ever since we first launched the program in 2005, and they have been supporting all the major events that I have personally orchestrated even before I had my own radio program going back to the 1990s.
01:48:04
So please go to nasbible .com, nasbible .com, and go to your elders, your deacons, sit down with them and discuss the possibility of replacing your pew
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Bibles with brand new, new American Standard Bibles. That's nasbible .com. We are now back with our guest
01:48:21
Jeff Kingswood, pastor of Grace Presbyterian Church of Woodstock, Ontario, Canada, a congregation in the
01:48:28
Associate Reform Presbyterian Church of Canada denomination, and we are discussing the person and work of the
01:48:34
Holy Spirit as a prelude to the upcoming Banner of Truth East Coast Ministers Conference on the theme,
01:48:41
I Believe in the Holy Spirit. If you'd like to join us with a question, do so now or forever hold your peace, because we're rapidly running out of time.
01:48:49
Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Pastor Jeff Kingswood, do you think an unfortunate tendency exists among some
01:49:01
Reform believers in which due to a paranoia over appearing to be Pentecostal or charismatic, they de -emphasize the person and work of the
01:49:10
Holy Spirit? I think that's true. I don't know if it's a conscious thing, but certainly
01:49:16
I think it exists. You know, we have the injunction in Scripture to lift holy hands in prayer, but I think in a lot of our congregations if someone were to raise their hands in prayer they would perhaps be regarded with suspicion.
01:49:34
So I do think that is something that is a real tendency and something that we need to probably just deal with and confront when we have questions about it.
01:49:50
But I think it is something that Reform churches struggle with. Yeah, I think that sometimes
01:49:59
Reform Christians do the same thing with biblical truths that perhaps look in their minds too much like Arminian things, as if they were written outside of the context of the
01:50:14
God -breathed pages of Scripture. And sometimes, just like many Arminians do, where they will avoid texts that are clearly teaching things like unconditional election or particular redemption or things like that.
01:50:29
Sometimes I think that we who are Reformed, or at least some of those among us, may avoid either texts that focus on the responsibility of man or whatever.
01:50:46
I mean, I can even remember a funny story when a dear brother who is a friend today and who has grown and matured a lot theologically, but I can remember when he first became
01:51:03
Reformed, he came out of Pentecostal Arminianism, and when he became Reformed he was, as many of us are at some point, in the cage stage of Calvinism.
01:51:14
And I can remember him after a service, a worship service, at the church where I was a member before moving to Pennsylvania.
01:51:22
I remember him being very angry after our pastor said, choose whom you will serve.
01:51:32
And I said to him, do you realize that's from the Bible? It's from Joshua? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right.
01:51:40
We all have that tendency. We pray for maturity, as you say, as we grow in grace, that we're able to deal with those texts in the context of the greater whole of Scripture without fear, and understand that God doesn't contradict
01:51:59
Himself. We have a question from Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, who asks, at times it sounds like my brothers and sisters in Christ are saying, even if unconsciously, that the members of the
01:52:18
Godhead are sometimes in some kind of a disagreement with each other when it comes to the salvation of the lost or other matters.
01:52:26
Are not all three members of the Godhead always in harmony with purpose? Yeah, absolutely.
01:52:33
We see that covenantal determination from before time to redeem a church for the glory of the
01:52:44
Father, the Son, and the Spirit. And all of the actions of God, of all three persons of God, are coordinated and carried out in concert to bring that to completion.
01:53:03
And so we see God ordaining election, among other things, but ordaining who shall be saved, that Christ comes to purchase that redemption, the
01:53:15
Spirit applies it to us. There is no action of any one person of the
01:53:22
Trinity that would stand in opposition to or frustrate any action or desire of any of the other persons of the
01:53:31
Trinity. They are one and must act in concert. So yeah, absolutely, you can't imagine a situation where Jesus and the
01:53:43
Spirit or the Father and the Son might be at loggerheads with one another. Yeah, I don't know if this is specifically what
01:53:50
Susan was referring to, but when I'm having conversations with some of my non -Reformed
01:53:57
Christian brothers and sisters, they will act as if the
01:54:02
Holy Spirit is trying his best to convince and convict lost sinners to believe in him, and their will triumphs over the efforts of the
01:54:17
Holy Spirit, and therefore the other persons of the Godhead, the Father and the
01:54:23
Son, perhaps even more specifically the Father who is sometimes viewed as the bad cop and the
01:54:30
Son as the good cop, when people compare and contrast the Old and New Covenants. But as if the
01:54:37
Father and the Son are in some kind of disagreement with the Holy Spirit, he is really trying to work on these people, and they're digging their heels in the sand, and therefore the
01:54:49
Father is saying, nope, Holy Spirit, as much as you want them saved, we don't want them. You know, that kind of a thing.
01:54:55
I may have clumsily worded that. Yeah, it's an absurd distortion, and if anyone thinks biblically about it for any length of time, they're going to see certainly that it's erroneous.
01:55:09
It just can't be. Well, I would like you now, before we run out of time, to have several minutes uninterrupted so that you can summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today about the
01:55:23
Holy Spirit before we go off the air. Oh, wow. Okay, I suppose that I would like people to have a full biblical understanding of the work of the
01:55:36
Spirit, that we see God the Spirit at work in Genesis 1 in creation, and that throughout the scriptures there is an increasing awareness and understanding of the work of the
01:55:51
Holy Spirit, but that certainly we're not modalists. I think sometimes we tend to think that, you know, in a modalistic way of the
01:56:01
Old Testament being God the Father, the New Testament God the Son, and now we live in the Spirit Age, and you hear that kind of modalistic talk, and it's nonsensical, it's non -biblical.
01:56:12
We need to understand that God the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit together are working throughout the entirety of the biblical record to show us
01:56:23
God's dealings with his people and to record for us that dealing so that we will have a proper appreciation of and understanding of the work of God in his dealings with his people, that the
01:56:39
Holy Spirit is absolutely necessary to our regeneration, that the
01:56:49
Spirit regenerates, quickens, enables us to hear Ephesians 1, 13 and 14, that without the work of the
01:56:56
Spirit none of us would be believers, and that the Spirit's work in the life of the regenerate believer is so necessary for it to make any progress in grace, if we are to make any progress in being more
01:57:12
Christ -like, that the Spirit of God must work in us, and that we neglect his person to our detriment and to the detriment of the witness of the
01:57:24
Church, that our witness is absolutely powerless if it is not the witness of the
01:57:30
Spirit working in and through us and through his word. And so we have an impoverished understanding of the
01:57:39
Christian life if we have a wrong understanding of the work of the Holy Spirit. So I'd encourage your listeners to to read a couple of excellent books, one by Banner of Truth, George Smeaton's on the
01:57:53
Holy Spirit, it's just called The Holy Spirit, excellent, excellent work. And a more contemporary handling of the same subject material is
01:58:01
Sinclair Ferguson's work on the Holy Spirit in the InterVarsity Press Contours of Theology series.
01:58:09
So that's Sinclair Ferguson, again it's just called The Holy Spirit, but it's in the Contours of Theology series by IVP, both of which are superb in answering all of your questions.
01:58:21
I don't imagine that you'd be able to come up with a question about the Holy Spirit that is not answered in those works.
01:58:27
Well you can get those books from our sponsor CVBBS .com, CV for Cumberland Valley, BBS for BibleBookService .com.
01:58:36
You can also get them, or at least one of them, from BannerOfTruth .org, BannerOfTruth .org. And remember, the
01:58:42
East Coast Ministers Conference is going to be held from Tuesday the 28th of May through Thursday the 30th of May at the
01:58:49
Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, where Jeff Kingswood is on the roster on the theme,
01:58:54
I Believe in the Holy Spirit. Go to BannerOfTruth .org, BannerOfTruth .org, click on events and scroll down to East Coast Ministers Conference.
01:59:02
Don't forget about the Grace Presbyterian Church in Woodstock, Ontario, Canada. Their website is
01:59:08
GracePresbyterian .ca, GracePresbyterian .ca. Pastor Jeff Kingswood, I can't wait to have you back on the program, perhaps to discuss your book that involves the
01:59:19
Catechism for Children and many more times in the future. I look forward to seeing you also at the
01:59:24
Banner of Truth East Coast Ministers Conference. I want to thank everybody who wrote in today and everybody who listened, and I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater