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Elizabeth Prata joins Andrew to talk about women's ministry and women discussing theology.
Can you show me, because we're going to use some hermeneutics, can you show me anywhere in the Old Testament where that word perpetual is not perpetual? Because, again, I understand you're appealing, again, sure, you're talking about God's laws, where any of God's laws, hold on, hold on, wait a minute, I thought I was going to get to have a talk here, you asked a question, hang on a second, sir, be quiet now, well, there you go, I will mute.
You because it's not your show, you asked a question, I'm going to give you the answer, Genesis 6 -4, the word olam is used referring to those who are of old, Deuteronomy, I'll just rattle off all the ones where it's used not referring to perpetual, Genesis 6 -4, Deuteronomy 32 -7, Joshua 24 -2, 1 Samuel 27 -8, Job 22 -15, Psalm 24 -7, 24 -9, 25 -6, 41 -13, 77 -9, 90 -2, 103 -17, 106 -48, 119 -52, 43 -3, Proverbs 8 -23, Proverbs 22 -28, Proverbs 23 -10, and Ecclesiastes 1 -10, should I go on for more?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. One, two, three.
Welcome to Apologetics Live. We're here to answer your questions and challenges about God and the Bible. Meet your hosts from Striving for Eternity Ministries, Andrew Rappaport, Dr. Anthony Silvestro, and Pastor Justin Pierce.
Well, we are live, Apologetics Live, here to answer your questions, and I always love that one. That is one of the funnier clips that we have gotten over the years. Someone that goes, just give me one example.
Well, we gave him plenty of examples, and his hermeneutical response was, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That was, I forget what his, Batman. He went by son Batman. He was a Sunday school teacher.
I forget. But welcome to Apologetics Live. We are here to answer any of your apologetics questions, any questions you have, challenges, whatever they may be about God and the Bible. As we say here, we can answer any question that you have about God and the Bible.
You doubt that, come on in and give us the challenge. Just remember, I don't know is actually an answer. I'm just saying. So if you give me a really tough one and I say, I don't know, I think that's a perfectly good answer.
And so let me bring in, who hasn't been here for a while, been traveling, Dr. Anthony Silvestro. How are you, sir? Hello, how are you? Good, good. You've been doing a bit of traveling, but do you remember.
What your house looks like? I'm slowly getting accustomed to it again. Hotel rooms just aren't the same, you know? Yeah. So fortunately, a lot of the travels we've had, we've had host families. And so that's been, that's been a huge blessing in a lot of ways.
So yeah, so we we've enjoyed it, but time to settle back down at home for a little while and get our son back into his homeschooling groove. Which he just loves, I'm sure. You know what? He actually prefers doing homeschooling over his, over his, over regular schooling.
So well, yeah, we're freedom.
That is, yeah, some, some kids do, do prefer that. That is true. So what I would have before we get started, we're going to have, and I'm going to explain, we had a changing guest. I'll explain that in a bit.
But I also just want to let folks know who, who we have coming on. And, but before we get to that, there is a new film coming out. One of our podcasters at the Christian Podcast Community has asked if we would be able to promote this a bit.
And so what I wanted to do to start off, I would like to play their trailer to the new film. And we're going to, I'll introduce the film. The film is going to be coming out November 12th. And so that's something that we're going to want you to, to go check out.
And he gave me some instructions with this. So let me, let us just start by sharing that real quick. Of course I got to find it. There it is. All right. So here's,.
Here is the trailer. You're not inadequate. You are perfectly capable. I mean, what is it about a parent that when their child turns five, all of a sudden the parent's no longer a liable option? Like, Oh, you're done.
Now it's your turn. I think the quality of education has steadily deteriorated in America. There is an agenda to steal our children. You feel inadequate because you've been taught by our school system that you're inadequate.
We had no frame of reference for.
Homeschooling other than it just seemed like torture. Like why would a sane woman choose to be locked up with her kids for 18 years in a row when a school bus would come and take them away and give you like a nine hour break every day.
No one knows your child better than you do. And no one loves your child more than you do. And homeschooling changes the game on everything. Homeschooling allows us to say to the child, what sort of life do you want?
What sort of God-given dreams, talents, and abilities is he speaking into you? When we think about classroom education and we ask what makes for good education, almost every professional educator will say low student teacher ratio, teachers who care, good methods, good curriculum.
When homeschooling, you get the best of all of those things. What we discovered is that it's very efficient to homeschool. You have the person who knows the student the best. You have the ability to customize the curriculum around the student.
You have a great student teacher ratio. And I realized I am accomplishing with Sierra in 25 minutes to an hour every day, what is taking the school system eight hours a day, five days a week to accomplish with my older daughter.
I loved watching the light bulb come on and watching her want to sit down and read with me. And I loved spending time with her. There's just so many benefits, including being able to have a relationship with your own.
Children. Continue doing what you're doing. Don't give up because I do believe that. Homeschool moms.
Are America's greatest heroes. So there it says, join the revolution. Schoolhouse rocked. November 12th, 2021. Schoolhouse rocked dot com. Looking for a new heating or cooling. You don't need the commercial.
All right, let me.
Well, the commercial wants you, though. Yeah, I can't seem to go away. Yeah, I could. I couldn't.
Stop the screen. All right. So so some information that he gave me on that. So let me let me just give you some info that is. So this film is going to be coming out. It's to be released November 12th.
So give me some information said, please let folks know that the film is releasing November 12th. They could bring it to their church through faith film network. And that is that faith content can sorry, faith content network.
Dot com slash host dash schoolhouse dash rocked. He said super important for the movies to be in churches to show to their members. Pre-sale virtual theater ticket sales for homes viewing will be available on October 27th.
And you can get those at schoolhouse rocked dot com. But they they can go there today. To sign up to be notified. So you want to do that. I've actually seen the pre-release of the film. It was actually excellent.
I think this is a necessary film at a necessary time when we have so many parents who are getting upset with what's being taught in schools. If you've seen the news, the I think it was Virginia, a man who was arrested.
And I don't know if you've heard this, Anthony, yet, but a father arrested when he went to a school board meeting to voice complaint about a policy that they have of allowing boys to use the girl's bathroom if they identify as transgender.
Now, he was arrested supposedly for being disruptive and they threw the book at him. The the the district attorney himself decided to come in and make the case. So it got high profile. But what they didn't announce in the news was the reason he was against it, because his ninth grade daughter, freshman high school, went into the girl's bathroom and a young man that happened to be wearing a skirt had sexually assaulted her.
And so and he was he was told that they have to stay quiet for the court case. And he was doing that. And they found out that this student was supposed to be at home with an ankle bracelet being monitored until the court case.
If they found out that no, they just moved him to another school system. And he did the same thing there. And so there are a lot of people. I mean, I think I think that everyone being home during covid helped a lot of parents realize, you know what, we can homeschool.
And this film is one that really, if you are on the fence with homeschooling, if you're like, I don't know that I can do that. This film will convince you that you can do that. It will encourage you that, yes, parents, you have your best, the best interest of your children at heart.
You know what's best for them better than some teacher at a school. And there are ways that you can do that. This film will encourage you for that. So I want to encourage you to go check out homeschoolrocked .com.
They also have a podcast on the Christian Podcast Community. So if you go to christianpodcastcommunity .org, you can check out the podcast and learn more about homeschooling from them. So with that, we want to get to the topic tonight.
And I want to before I bring in our guest, Elizabeth Prada, we set this up a few weeks ago where I was talking to someone online and, you know, a woman that likes talking theology. I heard her on another on some other podcasts and thought, you know, she sounded well spoken on the podcast.
I didn't know much about her. And we got into discussing online and said, maybe you want to come on. That actually created a firestorm. People tell me you shouldn't have her on people going after her.
And so what ended up happening was I had a phone call with her, decided that, you know, we both mutually had come to conclusion. It wouldn't be best at this time. And so what we ended up doing was, we still had the topic, but we were, it was looking at going to do an open Q &A, was what we might have to do as a backup.
And I was talking with Justin Peters about it, and he suggested Elizabeth Prada. Now, Elizabeth and I, I'm going to bring Elizabeth in. Welcome to Apologetics Live. Thank you. Thank you. Now, you know, full disclosure, you and I have met a couple of times at G3.
I think the first time was probably two or three years ago, maybe, but we didn't really talk. We just, I think someone snapped a picture with a couple of us. But this year we got to sit down and talk and got to know each other a little better.
And you have been blogging, you said since 2009? 2009. Yes. Every day you've written an article since 2009. That's diligence. Okay. And so let me, let me.
First let folks know. You said it backwards, Andrew. It's actually schoolhouserocked .com because I just looked it up. Okay. Schoolhouse. I want to make sure people see that because I think it's a, this is the first time I'm hearing of it and I'm drawn in by the trailer, but of course I'm sold completely for homeschooling.
So yeah. Yeah. And you know, the two of the people.
That you heard on there have been on their podcast, Sam Sorbo, which we interviewed her husband on the rap report recently, Kevin Sorbo. Many people know of them as from their acting careers. But then also Heidi St. John, who I got a chance to meet.
She is a fabulous speaker. She's really good. I met her at Answers in Genesis and man, she just, she knows her stuff. She was very.
Impressive. Yeah. And she knows how to engage culture with it too, which is, which is really unique about her. We heard her for the first time when my wife was down at the women's Answers in Women's Conference back in April.
And so my son and I kind of snuck in and hung out in the back and she was a really good speaker. Yeah. So let me put up a little bit. Elizabeth's website is.
The-end-time .org. And so over 5 ,500 blog posts, just a few, just a few. And as you and I were talking, you seem to have a lot of similarities with someone who I started this show with, Matt Slick.
Matt is known, he has one of the things that makes him so good at doing discernment. Is the fact that he is, he has Asperger's and the Asperger's really helps him to be able to, to do the study and, and to, to research things and makes him really see things clearly.
So with that little bit of a background, let me, let me let you introduce yourself to folks. As Anthony's probably checking out your website to make sure I got that right, but I checked it.
Beforehand. So welcome Elizabeth. Thank you very much for having me on. I really appreciate it. I'm not sure what to say. I have a blog. It recently turned into a podcast too, when Anchor came along and partnered with WordPress and made it easy.
It's just me reading what I wrote is, that's all it is. I don't know. What else did you want me to say? Well, we should, we should.
Definitely talk about your podcast and talk about the Christian podcast community offline. That, that might be good. But you know, one of the things we, we were talking about is women doing theology. Obviously you've been blogging and writing about theology and discernment for a very long time.
I think that one of the things that often is a problem with women doing theology is, well, some of the drama that we had just having, you know, inviting someone on, you know, there is, there is one thing that I, you know, I do notice with women's ministries in churches is, it just seems like women's ministries are usually where problems start for a lot of churches.
I just, it just seems that way. It's not an absolute thing. Do you notice that? And if you do, why do you think that is? What do you attribute that to?
I do notice that quite a bit. I remember it was sometime back around maybe eight years ago, a pastor up in Johnson City, New York named Jim Murphy did an amazing sermon about discernment and the tentacles of Satan that grabbed his congregation.
And it was essentially him repenting and him talking about how to untangle those things. And he named several areas of the church in which he had been inattentive, where Satan's tentacles had come in and grabbed people and tried to bring them away through false doctrine.
And one of those was the church library. One was Sunday school curriculum. They weren't careful to vet it. And the other was women's ministry. And at the time he said that he had killed the Beth Moore trip, and that caused quite a firestorm in his church because this was very back along when people were, had a Beth Moore in higher regard.
And she was emblematic of all that was supposed to be good about women's ministry. That was a very powerful sermon, but I was glad he named the different places where false doctrine tends to come in. A pastor can be as diligent as he wants to be at the pulpit and as he needs to be.
But unless he and his elders or deacons are also attentive to every area of education, and even fellowship in the church, then the false doctrine will come in. And women's ministry is one of those. I think it's because, you said, why does it happen?
I think it's because it's so emotionally driven. Women are emotional creatures, me not so much, being Asperger's. So it's a little easier for me to withstand the emotional appeals. But that's what happens, is the emotional appeals, the appeals to self-esteem, the appeals to wanting to be cherished, all the emotional things.
And women tend to gravitate to that. They're also not diligent with study, sadly, many women. And I think it was a few years ago, John MacArthur said, what's asked, was asked, what's one of the biggest problems in the church?
And he said, biblical illiteracy. And so for every one man that's biblically illiterate, I think there are 10 women who are also biblically illiterate. So I'm curious about something. Do you think this is.
One of the things we read about in scripture with women being a weaker vessel, that they're more prone or apt to fall into these types of false doctrines and whatnot? Do you think that's what it is? I mean, because there are guys who have talked about this as women being more emotional and because of that, able to fall into false doctrines more.
So that would be one question I'd have for you. And then the second one would be, do you believe that every women's ministry should be under a male elder, male teacher within the church that is overseeing the women's ministry?
As to your second question, yes, I do. I believe every ministry should have oversight within the church from the men, especially teaching ministries, because the biblical charge is for the men to teach.
And if women are teaching women, that's wonderful. That's biblical. But what is being taught is still under the responsibility of overseers and elders. And as for your loaded question about whether women are more prone to false doctrine because they're women, I haven't thought this through, but I would tend to say yes.
I think the model for that was Eve. I think we see quite a bit of that in the Bible. I think biblical illiteracy leads to that. And women, if they're following a biblical mandate to be a helpmate and to upkeep the home, then sometimes, especially if the husband is inattentive, she will not be studying as much as she needs to be.
So yes, I do think that women tend to fall into false doctrine a little more easily than men. But once again, the word of God is the antidote for that trap.
Yeah, that's right. And of course, you said a key right there is that it might be because men are being inattentive of their wives. And I think that is really the linchpin of it all, right? Are we doing the job we're supposed to be doing in protecting our wives from the false doctrine?
Maybe us as well, overseeing our wives and some of the teaching that they're doing and that kind of stuff. So yeah, great answer. Thank you for that.
Yeah, and let me just put, KT was saying as well, the woman was deceived, Eve. But then Marcy gives a shout out to you here, Elizabeth. She says, Elizabeth, thank you so much for your research and publishing your findings and helping us to spot those who are doctrinally off.
Thank you, Marcy. And Marcy also had said, I hate to admit this, but women's ministries scare me. To be honest, I would rather listen to a man teach. My wife, I remember in one church where I asked her if she wanted to go to the women's Bible study, and she was like, no.
The studies that they end up looking at, she didn't like, Beth Moore and the others, that just are bad theology. She always felt like she had to be correcting it. And then I remember her once asking her if the women were going to go to a women's conference.
And she goes, I'd rather go to a pastor's conference where I'm going to learn things than go to a women's conference and just have fluff. And I don't know, Elizabeth, if you're familiar with this person, but we have a new podcast on the Christian Podcast Community called Thoroughly Equipped with Melissa Lex.
Now, I got to admit, all of us that when we got the, and I told this to Melissa, when we got her inquiry in, we looked at it and it was like, she's like, it said, a podcast designed for women comparing the popular American evangelicals, women ministries, books, videos, and podcasts, et cetera, to scripture with the intent to show how to thoroughly equip them for every good work.
And just when I heard about that, like dealing with the women's, all the materials for women's ministries, I cringed. And then I started listening and she actually comes out of that and is doing really good discernment.
And she's basically going through these different books and going through the books, explain them, explain the authors, what's wrong with them. And she's relatively new out there. She's a homeschool mom and she's doing some really good stuff.
If you're not, are you familiar with her at all? I am not. This is new to me. So thank you.
All right. I actually, I'll put in the comments here for folks, a podcast where you can find her podcast, at least on the, on YouTube and on the striving fraternity ministry. It'll put that, I'll put it up here.
You could, if you could just go to Christianpodcastcommunity .org and look up shows and find it.
I did find one error on your website, just so you know. It was a great going through all these, all these people who you, all the under the blog role, all the people you reference that are really good teachers.
But I don't see Andrew Rappaport and striving fraternity on here. So.
It must've just been an oversight. It was, it fell off earlier. It's over there in the.
Kitchen floor. Make sure you sweep it up really good. I'm just teasing you of course. I actually, I love your website so far. So as you guys are talking, I'm listening and kind of.
Going through it. So, okay, good. Thank you. So let me, we, we did have a question earlier.
That probably is not for you. And we, when I told you this, we answer any questions that come in. So people that if you're on a fee, the Facebook watching or, or YouTube unfortunately, those of you who may be watching on Odyssey, some of you are going, what's Odyssey.
Okay. Odyssey is the platform that we're all going to be moving to when YouTube kicks us off. So start getting your accounts set up there that uses blockchain so that they can't remove it. So it uses the blockchain technology.
So we are, we're starting to make our move over there. As some of you know, the last time we recorded, well, YouTube took us down. Now that we know the explanation, I can explain. So YouTube took us down for one week because I took a video from Kenneth Copeland.
Now, mind you, Kenneth Copeland's original videos are all still up. I took videos from Kenneth Copeland in March of 2020, where he blew COVID away. He announced the end of it. The vaccine was coming immediately, all of that in March of 2022.
And then when I was at his conference in August and yes, Justin and I went there for research. So it wasn't like we were, we paid to be there, but we, we ended up going there. And I, I heard him say some things.
One of the things he said in August of 2021 is that he has a lot of respect for COVID. It's killing a lot of people today. So all it was, was clips, those two clips, like from March and August. And it was about him.
Well, we got shut down for a week because we were giving medical misinformation. So we're going to, we're going to be starting to make that move because they basically told us if they strike us again, they may just remove us.
So here was a question that came up earlier. This is a two-part question. So the person says, sorry to bring up a question so early, but it's regarding to, regards to Romans 1 .8, when Paul says, I thank our Lord through Jesus Christ.
My footnote says the Christian must go through Christ, not only for request, but also to give thanks. I don't really understand that. I would like to hear what y 'all think. Now, I guess the first question I'd have for you Lama is what, what Bible are you using?
What study Bible has that? So let me read the passage that we have here. It basically says, verse 8, Romans 1 .8, for I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.
Now, one thing I don't know, I saw that the way he put it in his translation says Lord, the word in Greek is theos. So it's, I thank my God through Jesus Christ. I think that's nothing more than he's thanking God for them, for the proclamation of the gospel throughout the whole world.
But where do we have that? How do we have that ability to proclaim that? It's through Christ. So I don't think that that's saying, and I don't know if the person is trying to get to the question of where some people say you have to pray to the Holy spirit or to, you know, specifically to Christ.
There's some people that try to make that delineation. I don't think there's anything in the Bible says you have to pray only to the father, only to the son or only to the spirit. That is my quick thinking of this, having just looked at it, but I don't know if.
Either of you have a comment on this. I like your answer. Okay. All right. Elizabeth, I do have this question. So why, what caused you to get into ministry and start blogging? Right?
I mean, you have a lot of stuff on here. I'm amazed. I, um, the Lord in his grace gave me a talent of writing and that's basically how I process things. So after I came to faith very late in life, age 42 or so, um, I had been a writer all my life.
I'd been a journalist. I've been a grant writer and an educator and academic. And so writing is natural to me. And one way that I enjoyed processing what I was learning in church and in my own studies was writing it.
And I had a personal blog, which I still have. I started in 2006 and I noticed my writing was getting more and more theological. So I started the second blog, the end time .org, to focus solely on what I was thinking about and wondering about, um, as I studied through writing.
And it just kind of grew from there. Um, people seem to gravitate to it. They mentioned that it's clear, um, that it's easily understandable. And so I just keep writing because that's how I, one of the ways that I like to process what I learn and to communicate back to myself, what I've been taught through the illumination of the Holy spirit.
So let's, let me put this, Robin Self says, uh, this was a little bit earlier, but agree, Elizabeth, many women are led by their feelings rather than scripture and the women's conference circuit depends on that.
You know, let's talk about the, the, the women's conference circuit.
That, that is a big moneymaker. Is it not? It's an enormous, enormous moneymaker. And it's actually very tragic. My very first introduction to the women's ministry circuit was very early on after I started coming to church after my salvation.
And I was brought to a women's ministry weekend, um, for a Beth Moore DVD study. It was a women's retreat and the focus was watching all the segments on the purchase DVD from Beth Moore. And that was my first introduction to her.
And I was immediately, um, perplexed and a little turned off by her emotionalism. And I was very saddened by one thing that one of the women said, which was after watching the hairbrush story, which is a famous story that Beth Moore tells, um, about how the Lord spoke to her to minister to this particular man in a airport.
She sighed when the video went off and said, I wish that I had what Beth Moore has. And to me, that's very tragic. And it's, it's the, the two-part culture that the women's ministry circuit imposes upon women.
And that is, they all have something that we don't. They have a closer relationship, um, a more balanced emotional life, a healthier marriage. And the women's ministry circuit makes money by appealing to women to deliver these materials that are going to clear up all these problems, these life problems for them.
Um, when it actually does very little teaching about God as sovereign for himself, rather than a means to an unearthly end, but it makes lots of money, lots and lots of money. And, um, after that, I was taken by the same group at the same church to a Beth Moore, um, uh, living proof live event at a large arena in North, uh, North Carolina.
And that was a two and a half day event also. And it was also tragic. Um, that's where I learned that there is a lot of money to be made by these materials, um, with women who successively or obsessively even go to one after another, after another.
And they do this because I think their hope they're grasping at something that's ephemeral. It's not real because Jesus is not central at these, um, on the conference circuit for women. And so they don't get anything solid and they continue to search for something that's not going to fill them.
Yeah. That, and, and that really, it's the emotionalism that I think my wife pointed out, what she notices with it so much is all of the emotionalism that's in there. And you know, it's, it's not theologically rich.
Um, we have some comments that came in, uh, Melissa, who, uh, this, this is just so you know, this is a, she's a missionary, was a missionary to the Philippines for many years. That's where I actually met her, was in the Philippines.
Uh, she's stateside now, but she says, wow, to me, uh, me too, so glad I'm not the only one that feels this way about women's ministries. Um, and then, uh, Melinda said, I'm a pastor, I'm a pastor's wife.
The only women's Bible study I'll go to is the one I teach, LOL. I absolutely love, uh, Melissa Daugherty's satire video about women's Bible studies. And I don't know that video. So are you familiar with what she's referring to?
I think I am. If it's the one I'm thinking of, and yes, it's, it's very funny. Um, it's very funny at all. Most of her videos, satirical videos are pretty funny. I think it's the one that she put one out recently that has a modern woman talking with a first century biblical woman, um, about their different struggles.
Um, so you can imagine how that conversation went. But I agree. It's it's, I'm, I caution women about women's ministries very much. Please talk with your husband, talk with your pastor about who is solid.
And I wish women didn't think that they only, or should go only to women's ministries. I prefer actually listening to a man, a pastor. Um, if I, I have a limited amount of time, so I want to listen to sermons or ministries that have a long track record ministries where people are quoted that are, have passed on.
So they can't shipwreck their faith, you know, like Matthew Henry or Charles Spurgeon, um, or very, very long track ministries that have, um, no blot like John MacArthur's ministry, et cetera, and others like his.
So women don't have to gravitate only to women's ministries. And I wish they would be more cautious and would gravitate towards male ministries more,.
Or at least first. Yeah, I think, uh, one of the things that we end up seeing is that, and you're saying male ministries. I don't think that it's, I think it's in my opinion, you know, and so I'm going to ask this as a question, if you, if you think this is more accurate, I think it's really the publishing industry that seems to focus people.
If you're a woman, they focus things on more of the emotionalism rather than theology. And I, so do you, do you think that it's like the publishing industry we've already established, they make a lot of money from this?
Uh, I mean, I, I think that Beth Moore was untouchable for so many years in the Southern Baptist movement because she was making a ton of money for her life way, you know? And so do you think that it's, it's, I guess this is a question of which is the, the, the carton, which is the horse.
Is it the publishing companies that market fluff to women, or do you think it's the women who are actually gravitating toward the emotionalism that the.
Publishers are then just satisfying that? I think it's a symbiotic relationship. I think what the verse that says that the times will come where they will not endure sound doctrine. Um, they will heap up teachers to fulfill their passions.
And so it's, and the, the false teachers are doing what they're doing, not only because they have an audience, but because they make money from it. So without one, you wouldn't have the other, but both together create this, this firestorm of falsity.
And I think it's both, um, people, women who gravitate toward this sort of material, who it's theological, theologically light, it's emotionally driven. It's rife with error. Hermeneutics are terrible.
Um, they wouldn't be doing this if the false teachers didn't put it out, but the false teachers wouldn't put it out if the audience didn't keep them up and keep going.
Back for more. Yeah. There's definitely a lot of money to be made on both sides of that issue, right? Both the ministries and the publishers. It reminds me of the story of, um, Alex Malarkey, right. Who wrote, uh, right.
He, he claimed he went to heaven. He recanted and Lifeway knew he recanted and yet they kept publishing the book. Well, he never actually is his dad who wrote it.
Well, yeah, that's right. And so he said, Hey, none of this was true. It didn't happen.
And they, they kept, they didn't want to get rid of it. Yep. It was a cash cow for them. Yeah.
And so that's, that's one of the things that, you know, you end up seeing a lot with it. It's, the money seems to drive a lot of this now. Um, here's a, you know, Robin Self has a good point here and she says, this is why it's so important for pastors to know what conferences their women are attending as well as the studies being approved.
I think that's a really good point. Um, you know, there's so much of this that I ended up seeing Elizabeth. I, he see so many of the, women's Bible studies in different churches where no one's really overseeing it or approving the, it's just a, they started up like, Oh, here's a book we can go through.
Do you, do you seem to, cause I know you speak to a lot of women, especially the ones that have start finding your blogs and coming out of this stuff. Do you, does that seem to be a trend that you, that you've noticed of, of having where, where you have just women starting studies where there's really no oversight.
There's no, where the churches don't have someone who's reviewing the materials that women are women, but the women's Bible studies are using.
Yes. I look for that. And I think as more and more of these pop up, you have para-church ministries that are almost devoid of any male oversight whatsoever, any theological oversight or input. And I don't know if you're familiar with the, if gathering was started by Jenny Allen, maybe 10 years ago, it's absolutely huge.
But the danger with the, if gathering is that it's mainly a para-church para-church or an extra church ministry where women gather at homes. And the way they gather is almost so totally from social media.
It's, you don't see flyers. You don't see many things that are public about it. But if you look at the, if gathering map, you'll see these gatherings happening. The pins almost completely cover the United States.
And now they're in many other countries too. And it's sort of, it's sort of subterranean. But as I said, Jenny Allen started it. She claims her husband gives a little bit of input, but if you look at their tax records, it's very few hours and it's mainly women writing these curricula that other women gravitate to.
So it's a problem. A Walk to Emmaus is another one. It's sort of subterranean. It's sort of a little bit secret. It's hard to find. But yet they draw these women away, fill them with emotional fluff, charismania, visions, and then send them back to their churches to get more women to come to their other gatherings.
And so it's a multiplying problem, but in the wrong direction. Yeah. So just a comment that came up here,.
And this name keeps coming up. So I'm going to actually ask a couple of questions about this, but Beth Moore. So Mercy says, I was led to Beth Moore early in my Christian beginnings and am so thankful to people that call out these false teachers and to the pastors who shepherd the flocks carefully.
So Beth Moore seems to be a popular one within conservative circles. I mean, there's a lot of women's ministries, but Joyce Meyer, most of the churches that would be more conservative are not going to be looking to her for material, but they do a lot look to Beth Moore.
And she's come out of the SBC now. She's no longer SBC. She's no longer complementarianism, though many of us knew she wasn't complementarianism long before. She finally came out and admitted it. We have an episode here on Apologetics Live from a couple of years ago.
I think Jim Osmond and Justin Peters and I talking about her defending that she's a complementarian, but everything she was saying was proving she didn't really believe that. What are your thoughts about Beth Moore?
Why do you think, or do you think she's dangerous,.
And if so, dangerous, and if so, why? I think she's completely dangerous. I think the danger is embedded now. I think it's gone to the second and even the third generation of women that have followed her, because she's been around for a long, long time.
She's been around since, I think, 1994 was when Living Proof was founded, and she's been very popular most of the time. I don't think her influence is waning. She's got over a million followers on various social media.
So why do I think she's so dangerous? Well, first, because of her terrible hermeneutics, the way that she cobbles together a lesson or a speech, I can't even call them sermons, at her Living Proof Live.
For example, the one I went to, she said that she prays, she waits for the Spirit to deliver a word directly to her mind, and then she uses that as an acrostic and finds all the verses that are about that word in the Bible and then puts it together, which, as we know, is not the way to go about putting together a speech or a sermon or a lesson that you're going to be teaching.
I think that the basic problem is not only her hermeneutics, but the way that she says that she receives direct revelation, and she's been saying that for years upon years upon years, since the very beginning.
And that, for so many years without correction, has become normal for the next generation of women to believe that this is how you have a relationship with Jesus. It's based on feelings and impressions and waiting to hear from him personally.
So she's destroyed the notion of sufficiency of scripture. Scripture is the more sure word. Peter had visions, but he said even those, you know, there's a more sure word than the word that I have received as an apostle.
And how about us now that the canon is closed? Beth Moore opened it, and without correction for decades, now women think that's how you have a relationship with Christ, is you cobble together words, and you go on your feelings, and you receive direct revelation, and you live a very forward life.
I did a blog on her some years ago about how she says that she's home every weekend, and she's a helpmeet, and she's a dutiful wife, etc., which was not true, because I looked at her schedule, and she was gone almost all the time, and her children were young then.
It came out in the Atlantic just a couple years ago, now that her daughters are grown. They said, yes indeed, mom was gone a lot, and we ate a lot of takeout. So she's dangerous by her life, and she's dangerous because of her doctrine, and she's dangerous because other men have not corrected her, or addressed these issues with what I think are obvious issues with her ministry.
Okay, so Connie, who's in the.
Backstage, Connie, do you want to make your comment on camera? Just nod your head if you do, and I'll, or I'll just read it if not. You want me to read it? Okay. She said, the waving of the hand like this, I'm taking as a no, you do it.
She said to you, Elizabeth, she said, I had done Beth Moore studies when I realized a lot through Elizabeth's sight, there was so much error, I called a halt to all her studies. Trying to tell other women about Beth Moore problems has been a disaster.
Many women do not want to know, they want to follow blindly, and this is really a good follow-up into the question that I was going to have for you. I have noticed that the Beth Moore's followers seem to be some of the most ardent and hateful people if you try to criticize her.
Do you notice that as well, and if so, what do you attribute that to?
Yes, I've not only noticed the vitriol and the very harsh words coming from a lot of her followers, but I've been the recipient of a lot of that anger. When I write some things that seem to resonate, not all the things that I write about Beth Moore have resonated over the years, but some have, including the infamous open letter to Beth Moore that I and several other ladies had posted asking her directly at her stance on homosexuality.
That seemed to garner quite a bit of anger, let's say, shocking anger, and although others in discernment, quite a few people do not appreciate when you tell them that a favorite teacher or someone that they have followed is indeed a false teacher, no matter how lovingly you might say it, they don't appreciate it, but with Beth Moore, it goes to a different level, and it's a very troubling level of her followers, and Beth seems to either enjoy it, or at least, at the very least, doesn't correct her followers at all.
You would think she seems to like them defending her, and it doesn't matter to her, obviously, I say, how they do it, because she never addresses the anger that comes from her followers, and the issue with her is her longevity, and now the second generation of women and other younger women who are coming up and teaching in the same way that she does are doing the same things that she did, because why not?
Yeah, and I think that one of the things.
That we see with it is, you know, the only other person I could think of that has that same victorolic following would be Joya Mica, and she uses it, though, like she will actually use her audience to go and defend her and, you know, to go after the people, so she doesn't have to, and I think that's actually a ploy that she makes, because I've seen her with me, she'll put something out saying, does anyone agree with him, right, and then all her followers just start piling on, and that's something that I end up seeing when you guys put out that open letter to Beth Moore, I actually used that in a podcast on The Rap Report about Al Muller, because he did a podcast about, you know, a Roman Catholic Canadian politician, and he said when that politician was asked about homosexuality, he was like, well, you know, you claim to be a Christian, you have to answer this question, and I went, wait a minute, like this was literally just, I think, months after you guys put that letter out, and it was like, okay, Beth Moore's not Catholic, she's not a politician, she's, you know, she's not Canadian, she's an American, SBC, same as Al Muller, and not a politician, but a Christian speaker, how much more should he be putting pressure on her to answer?
Exactly. And, like, here's the, you know, here was this letter put out, and I think, I don't know if it happened before or after that letter was out, that she removed part of her, in one of her books about homosexuality, she had some saying it was wrong, removed it, and so, you know, how much more should these people who are saying that politicians have to answer this, and that are Catholic, how much more should Beth Moore have to?
Well, I think there's a thing called, you know, deception by investment, and I didn't make up that phrase, but a lot of times in discernment, when you share with somebody that there are problems with a certain ministry that they're following, or you see them carrying around a certain book, and you want to raise the topic with them, it's difficult, because when they bristle, it's because they are, they have invested themselves, they've invested their, perhaps their time, perhaps their money, perhaps their reputation, with this teacher that's turning out to be false, and it's very difficult to untangle that prideful feeling that they have invested in the false teacher, to get them to back away from it, but the Lord calls us to humility.
I will say for myself, the first year to year and a half or so of my walk in with Christ, my favorite teacher was Joel Osteen, and I can't tell you how I felt when I found out that he was a false teacher, and then I had wasted those years, or those months following him, when I could have been following somebody more solid, so I've been there, and I understand how it feels when you discover your favorite teacher is a false teacher, but the primary consideration for every Christian is the word of God, the honor of Christ, so we must slay our pride and say, I made a mistake, I'm going to back away, and I'm going to follow somebody more solid or better for my spiritual health.
What was the term again that you used? Deception by investment, or is it investment by deception? It's deception by investment, it's like the more that you have invested in, and the longer you go with this person, the harder it is to back away, because you've invested your time, your money, your reputation, and so what people want to do is get defensive and double down, and say, no, no, this person is really good, but if your primary consideration in life is to honor and glorify the Lord, and to worship him rightly, you will listen, and you will cut through that, even if you have to humble yourself.
That really answers.
What I've been putting out lately, is this thing of truth doesn't matter, theology doesn't matter, the narrative matters, and that seems to be really what you're saying, people invest in a narrative so much that they don't care that it's not true anymore, because they want it to be true.
You had a question? Yeah, so for our listeners, what females do you think are good teachers.
Still out there? What are the ones that you would recommend? Let's see, I recommend Susan Heck, her ministry is With the Master. Brooke Bartz and Erin Coates, Erin Coates is the wife of James Coates, the pastor who was arrested in Canada and jailed for a period of time last year.
Brooke Bartz and Erin Coates have an Open Hearts podcast, and they also have an Open Hearts in a Closed World online conference for women that's annual, and it's free. Amy Spreeman and Michelle Leslie have a podcast called A Word Fitly Spoken.
They each have blogs and writings online too, separately. I love Dr. Shelby Cullen and Kimberly Cummings, the Women's Hope podcast. They're out of the Master's University, and so you know the oversight there is very good.
And I like Lauren Hereford, Tulips and Honey Hub, and Robin Self, as she's commented here, she's a pastor's wife. Robin Self has a blog called A Worthy Walk. And I know there are other women that are good.
I mean, I'm cautious about most women's ministries, but there are good ones out there, and those are some of the really good ones. Are you a fan of Martha Peace as well? Oh yes, yes, yes. I knew I'd leave off some really wonderful women.
My wife enjoys her stuff a lot, so one of the few on my approved list for her.
If you could get me the list of those, I'll make sure I get all those into the show notes too. Oh, thank you.
That'd be great. We do have a question.
Yeah, there was a different question before that, but yeah, we'll go to this one now.
Okay. Marcy says, what is the best way to start a conversation with our friends who are longtime followers of these false women teachers?
That's really hard. I like to ask questions. What is it? Like the verse says, and I wish I could remember the address of the verse, but the one that says they will not endure sound doctrine and they will heap up teachers to suit their passions.
If somebody's following somebody who you have, for sure, identified as false, ask them what they like about that person, because there's something that that false teacher is giving them that they're craving in their flesh.
And once you can kind of drill down to what it is that they're getting out of this false teacher, then you can start leading them towards scriptures that address that particular issue. Sometimes just questioning will start them questioning, and then you can leave it.
You don't have to resolve everything in the first and only conversation. You can just kind of come alongside that person successively, and you don't have to make that person a project, your friend a project about it, but just gently offer them some good, incredible materials that they might not be aware of, some of the ones I've named and other ones that are around.
So, those are two ways to try to start a conversation. Ask questions and share materials that you're using and that you've enjoyed. Okay. So, we had a question that came in a.
Little earlier. Give me a sec while I find it, because it was just on my screen. And then it was about a Lisa, I probably can't pronounce it. Turturst. Turturst. And I became familiar with her through the Thoroughly Equipped podcast that I mentioned that Melissa Leks does.
She did a review of Lisa's book, Is God Speaking to Me? That was the first I became familiar with her. But I'm looking for the question that we had in here about her. I see where some people are saying it was bad news.
I'm trying to get to the question. It was on my screen, and then the screen scrolled. All right. Well, while I look for that one, let me put this one up, because I found this one earlier. And folks on Facebook, if you go to apologeticslive .com, there's a way to give permission for us to see your name.
But a Facebook user said, what do you all think of the Blaze Ali Bestaki? My wife is quite the fan of hers. From what I've seen of her, she seems very solid, not prone to emotionalism. So, what do you think of Ali Bestaki?
Are you familiar with her? I am familiar with her. I like her. I think she's brilliant. She speaks quite a bit about culture and politics. And I haven't listened to her a lot, a lot in terms of vetting whether she's theologically solid.
But I do like her.
All right. I'm still trying to find that.
Lisa Terkhurst, I believe, is still a member of Stephen Furtick's church, right?
Yes. That's one of the concerns that I would have, is sitting under Stephen Furtick's preaching. I mean, he's pretty cool, though, right? No, no, he's not even cool. Okay, look, here's the thing. When you got these guys that want to be hip, right, and they're doing things that are nostalgic to people who lived in the 80s, that's not hip.
It's just nostalgic to you, right? But they all seem to want to be claiming they're hip, and yet they're doing stuff from the 80s. Let me just ask, because I think the question was about Lisa. What do you know about her?
What are your thoughts on Lisa Turk? I mean, I see a lot of people are saying she's bad news,.
But I can't find the question. Well, I would say no. I wrote about her on my blog. I don't remember all the specifics about what I wrote, but it was a not recommended. Just still continuing to be a member of Stephen Furtick's church is a big red flag right there.
He's one of the top false teachers that there are going at this point. So, if she's still connected with that church, that's bad news. I think she's just another one of the women's ministry ladies that come along and say they have poor hermeneutics and errant curricula, and I would say not recommended.
If you look on my blog, I do have one or two articles about her with specifics and with.
Scriptures. We had another, and here's Robin Self gave another name. Here, is Alisha Chandler's, I'm not pronouncing that. Alisa Childers. Childers. My only knowledge of her is from the film, I'm drawing a complete blank on it.
Anthony, the film that they have with you would do in open air.
Why am I drawing a blank on it? American Gospel. American Gospel, wow.
So, yeah, she was in that. That's my only knowledge of her, but what do you know about her? She's solid, I guess.
Yeah, from what I remember, yes. I listened to her videos a few times, and I read several of her essays, and yes, I enjoyed her work. Yeah, I'm saying being in American Gospel doesn't necessarily mean someone's solid anymore.
It happens quickly, doesn't it?
We've had several of them that have gone bad. So recently, within the last two years, I re-watched American Gospel, and it was funny because there were so many of the people that were in there that I'm like, oh, they were in that?
Did they not know what they were saying back then? And one of them someone asked about here is Priscilla Schreier. KT says she's another one a lot of people are using. What do you know about Priscilla Schreier?
Are you asking me,.
Andrew? Yep. She's not recommended. There are a lot of issues with her ministry. I particularly get really upset with the hypocrisy of women in ministry that claim to be wifely, humble, meek, help-meets, but are actually living a functionally feminist life.
And Priscilla Schreier is one of those, claiming to be, you know, I'm just a mom, I love my kids, this ministry thing, you know, it grew before I knew it. No. Effectively CEO, leaving the kids behind, doing lots of ministry that in any other sphere of cultural life would be called career.
So I believe that she is a hypocrite with her life and that her teachings.
Are extremely problematic. Yeah. And one of the things that I had gotten from Michelle Leslie's site, because someone had asked me about her, and folks, if you haven't been to Michelle's site, I mean, she does detail things and source all her stuff like you do, which is good, so that you can go there and go back to original source.
But one of the things that with Priscilla Schreier is she is teaching compliment of prayer. And that is problematic. You know, that's like an Eastern mysticism thing where people are emptying their minds.
And, you know, so that that is that is dangerous. You know, but now, you know, halfway through, I think now might be a really good time to kind of get a word from our sponsor, because we at this point, you might be thinking, you're ready to put your head on a pillow and cry yourself to sleep.
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How far the mighty have fallen. He used to do gospel transitions, and now he do MyPillow transitions. I can do gospel transitions. Actually, you're quite amazing, and I'm bold.
But we're we're we are sponsored here by MyPillow. You can if you have a pit to cry into a pillow, MyPillow one's going to be a great one to do because mine is like 10 years old and still just as fluffy now as when I first got it.
These are great pillows. Actually, I love all their products. They have a lot more products than just pillows. If you haven't been out to the site, I've recently got the mattress topper that you've heard me talk about here.
Absolutely love the three inch mattress topper. I've recently got their pajamas. That's my latest thing that I've been trying out, and I haven't found a product yet that I don't like from MyPillow. Next one's going to be the MyPillow slippers are actually they're called MySlippers.
I think they're running a special on those now. Anthony went to get himself his pillow, so he's he's got his MyPillow right there. Nice and comfy is great. You know, for a fact,.
I travel with mine everywhere. Yeah, I'm going to buy another one to travel with because I just.
Yeah, it's good. Do use the promo code SFE to save on the on that and and also at the same time be supporting striving fraternity or you can call 1 -800 -873 -0176. That's a number that they gave for us.
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They're made here in the United States. So if you go to MyPillow .com, use promo code SFE for striving for eternity, you will not only get some great products, but at the same time be supporting Striving for Eternity and these shows.
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I did that because the page they gave us is much longer. But bit .ly slash SFE Logos. You get five free books from us if you're new to them or you upgrade to the packages. And then we'll have from that, we'll, you know, we get some from that.
Humble Clay says, just recently made a rather large purchase from MyPillow for myself and for Christmas. Thanks at Striving for Eternity. So Humble Clay, what you need to do is send us a picture and we will put that on here when we get those pictures.
And if for folks, I haven't announced that for a long time. So if you want to get that, just go to send the picture to info at Striving for Eternity dot O-R-G. Info at Striving for Eternity dot O-R-G.
And we will.
Get that picture from there and put it up. So she must be a good teacher. She says the sheets are fantastic. Rob himself. Yeah, I have not tried the sheets yet, so I'm going to have to take her word for it.
OK, enough about MyPillow now. OK, Elizabeth, I do have this one. Let's get into some topics. You recently wrote one October 9th on modesty. And, you know, there's certain topics that are just are not brought up at the pulpit anymore.
Right. We don't we don't hear anything about about eating too much. We don't hear of anything about well, modesty is another one. So would you like to speak a little bit more about this? I kind of scanned through.
You had a lot of information on here. It really seems to be a well-written article. Thank you. Thank you. Yes,.
I'd be delighted to speak on the modesty issue. If you gentlemen would allow me to go back to Priscilla Schreier for just a minute. Yep. Would that be all right? Please. Yeah, I found I mentioned that her lifestyle was part of the issue of women's ministry have had for many years models of women who live a functionally feminist life, as I mentioned.
And I'm going to give you a specific example of that with Priscilla Schreier. I'm going to quote a short excerpt from a New York Times article that was written about her. And here we go. New York Times article, quote, her husband Jerry quit his job to run his wife's ministry.
Priscilla now accepts about 20 out of some 300 speaking engagements each year. She publishes a stream of Bible studies, workbooks and DVDs intended for women to read and watch with their girlfriends from church.
Jerry does his share of the housework and child care so that Priscilla can study and write. He travels with his wife and wherever possible, they take their sons along, but they often deposit the boys with Jerry's mother.
So that's what I mean by women's ministry, quite often having poor role models, not only in hermeneutics and doctrine, but in lifestyle. And women have a want to usurp. You know, you asked me earlier about, are women more prone to false doctrine?
And part of it is an innate desire to usurp our place, which has been defined biblically as mainly not always 100%, but mainly in the home as a help me to the husband, if the Lord has graced the woman with a husband.
So if you remove the word ministry from many of these women's life and replace it with career, what you have are women who have usurped the place that the Lord had for them. And it's a shame because it's quite often the children who suffer.
Now, as far as modesty goes, I haven't really done a lot on that topic because, you know, I'm old, I'm fairly much just at home, you know, an old lady at home, but there are young women that I work with that church and they don't have modesty issues, but I'm watching them come up as beautiful flowers in the Lord's garden.
And I realized I'd been remiss in touching on some of these Christian life issues. I focus so much on theology and also on discernment that I need to write encouragement articles also for the younger women that I work with who are coming up and might need to know these important topics too.
So what did you want to know about the modesty thing?
Well, I mean, I'm glad you wrote about this. So, okay, let's take it up a step, see if you're we'll start with the wife first. What does a wife do if a husband wants her to dress more.
Provocatively? At home? Have a blast. How about in public? And I agree with you. In public? Well, then the husband is sinning. And I don't think that a woman is covered by her husband's sin. I don't think she can be complicit in it.
I mean, look what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. So I think it's incumbent upon the woman to remember that her glory is her husband, but her main glory is her Lord. And that's who she needs to obey.
So just like we don't obey the government when it asks us to stop preaching the gospel, we don't obey the husband when he's asking us to do something that the Bible has outlined as an.
Admonishment not to. Yeah. And so resources like your blog would be a great one for her to share.
With her husband. Let me just stay with that one for a moment because there's something more in that, that I think that there is a thing, like I dealt with this in many, many years ago, probably about 20 years ago in church.
We had a young lady who, Anthony, she used the exact line that you said. She said that she dresses this way because her husband likes it. This is how her husband wants her to dress. And some of the women talk to her at church.
I ended up having to talk to the husband because she was telling the women, this is what my husband wants. And what was interesting was she used to work at the pregnancy center and they ended up having her ask her to leave.
But what was interesting was she said the same thing there at the pregnancy center. My husband wants me to dress this way. And the director told me, because they were having problems with her and she was in my church, it was a thing where she ends up going, well, your husband doesn't work here.
You're not dressing that way for your husband here. He's not here. I do think, and I'll ask this to you, Elizabeth, when you hear people that use that argument, I believe that this was a way she dressed.
But if she says, I'm dressing this way for my husband, it sounds spiritual. It sounds like you can't condemn her because it's not for herself. She's doing it for her husband, which is a good thing, is the way it's laid out.
Do you find that some women might use the way they dress to gather attention for themselves and use an excuse like this to protect them from being.
Judged by it? Absolutely. It sounds like a rationalization. I mean, if he asked her to quit going to church, if he asked her to, I don't know, leave the children outside all night or some other kind of sinful things, would she follow along with those too?
I think she uses that as an excuse because she herself enjoys it. So let's flip the question.
Around now. What if the wife buys something new, wants to walk out of the house with something that the husband finds to be too provocative and what he believes to be too provocative for public?
How does that conversation get handled? The husband would say, hopefully in a kind way, that he feels that the outfit would bring undue attention to her in a sensuous way, and that he would prefer she did not wear that out of the house.
Hopefully, she would be happy enough to comply because she doesn't want to cause a division or.
Usurp her husband. I ask these because I've heard these things come up in churches. These are very real issues that happen, especially today with all of the hot yoga pants stuff that women wear. It is unbelievable to me.
Every time you walk outside, you've got these skin-tight things that females are wearing. I'm like, there is no way my wife would ever walk out of this house.
But here's the thing. The argument for that thing people say is, but it's comfortable. Now, it's comfortable. Guess what? You can wear something over it too,.
Right? That's right. You can put a dress over it, skirt over it, whatever.
You're still comfortable, but nobody is seeing the skin tight. Look, you know, Anthony, I used to do jujitsu. You'd have guys that would wear what's called a rash guard just to keep from chafing when you're moving around.
There are some guys that.
They just wear a rash guard. Yeah, that's border transgenderism right there.
I remember someone you and I both know, Brian, who came down to the gym and he was just like, dude, that's so inappropriate. That's like wearing underwear. Like, no, put your pants on. So even for the guys, I mean, I wear that, but I also wear shorts over it.
If we're doing no gi, otherwise I have a gi on. But yeah, I can understand it being comfortable. I run and I'd have those on, but I have shorts over it. So Elizabeth, you have someone that's saying that they want to wear these leggings, yet they're not covering that up.
Do you think that, you know, just saying it's comfortable for them, do you think that's a viable excuse?
No, no, I don't. I mean, our comfort, where did that become the primary consideration in presenting ourselves to the Lord, either in daily life or in worship? It's dignity, it's modesty, it's submission, it's a heart attitude.
I work in an elementary school, a public elementary school, and we have dress standards and leggings are not part of the dress standards. If you wear leggings, you need to wear something that comes down to the knee over it.
So I don't understand why a woman would want to display herself in a way that is of the world when modesty is counter-cultural and will shine even brighter, especially if her countenance, and I wrote about that a lot in my article on modesty, her inner beauty will come out, her love for the Lord, if she dresses modestly and has a true worshipful attitude.
Why do you want to show skin when everybody else shows skin? You've got to show a lot more skin to get noticed, and that's the wrong direction to go. Yes. It just seems obvious to me, but I guess it's not because,.
As you gentlemen are saying, it's an issue in church. Yeah, even good churches, it's astounding.
Melissa asked this question of you, Elizabeth. What do you think of Jen Wilkins?
I think back along, she was solid. Her book, Something About the Word, was good. I did two or three essays on her recently, and I do not recommend her anymore. I think she's an egalitarian. I think she is a usurper.
She has taught and preached to men, and then she had that terrible sermon where she was talking about the female monthly menstruation and how that blood is akin to Jesus's shed blood, some other foolishness.
So I do not recommend Jen Wilkins any further, and it's just a sad testament to the fact that people who once were solid need to be vetted and checked every so often. Check your bookshelves, ladies, because the books you bought 10 years ago from authors might not any longer be credible, and you don't want younger ladies to be drawn away by something that you have failed to see is no longer good food for the soul.
And if I'm not mistaken, doesn't she go to the church of the pirate ship dream guy, Matt Chandler?
Yes. Yes. I thought so.
Yep, that's her, all right. So she must have sailed along with that pirate ship.
So let me ask you with that. I mean, we're mentioning different people who, like, even people that were in American gospel that now are not so solid, both men and women. What's the importance of keeping up with them to see what they're currently teaching?
And then how do we keep up with them? I mean, like, so you're saying that, you know, like, you used to recommend Jen, but not anymore, right? And we're mentioning different people that, you know, were solid at one time and you could have endorsed them, but it is so hard to keep up with all these people.
Yes. So are there resources out there that you would know that where we could go? I mean, how do we, how does someone keep up, especially for someone who's not so solid? Someone like me who doesn't follow women's ministries at all.
You know, someone's name comes up, where could we go?
Well, as the list that I mentioned earlier verbally, and the one that I'll give you in writing later, some of these ladies had done very good work with discernment. What I'd like to do is, first of all, I write down the names of the people that my pastors, my elders mentioned during sermons that they consulted themselves.
And I figure who they're reading is pretty safe. And then you go from there in a concentric circle, you know, so like, if you like John MacArthur, he sometimes mentions S. Lewis Johnson in the Believers Chapel.
And S. Lewis Johnson was succeeded by Dan Duncan. And Dan Duncan sometimes mentions Don Green. And so those circles that overlap, starting from a one really good solid one, and you go outward from there, and keep your circle small of people that you read and follow.
And thirdly, I'd say read the dead guys, read the Puritans, read the people in the past who have gone on. And that's for two reasons. First, because they can no longer slide into apostasy and shipwreck their faith.
And secondly, because when we read people from far back, we can see their blind spots. We can't see our own blind spots. And we can't see, put our nose above the culture that we're in, because we're in it.
But we can see theirs. And so it's often a lot easier to be discerning about someone from the past.
So as I want to continue to press you, because, you know, we don't often get a female discernment blogger on a show, what are some women's issues? And by the way, I'm sure my wife will listen to this tomorrow morning, so this will be good for her too.
But what are some women's issues today that don't get addressed very often? You know, I know in the counseling world, I've got a lot of friends that are in ACBC counseling, and I get some lay level training from them as we talk.
But women in pornography seems to be a really growing segment. And we all know about men in pornography, right? 72 of men, depending on the study you read, Christian men, professing Christian men are in pornography once a week.
We see some, I mean, they're staggering statistics, but half of the pastors are in porn once a week. Oh, that's terrible. Yeah, I mean, they're horrible statistics, right? But women, from what I understand, are really growing in terms of pornography, whether it's hardcore porn, magazines, or even things like heavy romance novels.
Well, so it's 48 was the last I heard of women that are watching pornography. If you go into the romance novels, and this is just Christian, non-Christian that I saw, when you get into romance novels, it was up to like 76%.
So it is grown.
That's an area that I know very little about. I know that there's, well, I'm 61, or about to be 61. And my first memory was at age three. And I remember the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. That was my first memory.
So I have a long history of seeing how the culture has gone. You know, the 60s was terrible, and then the 70s with the short shorts, and then the 80s and with feminism and so on. So I have seen that culture has really told women that the more that you bear on your body, the more powerful you are.
You're a strong woman. I noticed on my trending line on Twitter, it said that was go without a bra day or something. So when the frog is in the water boiling long enough, you begin to see certain things as normal.
And so this generation we're in now doesn't really see anything wrong with a lot of skin. They see it all the time. And so it's no surprise that Christian women are succumbing to that fallacy, that falsity, that bearing skin and watching other people with bare skin is okay, but it's not.
It's just not. The body is designed to be private, to be shared with a spouse, to be a temple of the Holy Spirit, and to be treated with dignity by others and by oneself. So I think Game of Thrones is a culprit here, as Robin Self is saying on her comment, 50 Shades of Grey.
I think that's a terrible statistic, and I'm really sorry to hear that pornography is a problem for women in the church.
Yeah, because again, we're hearing about these things right now. So what other topics do you think are pertinent to women that maybe don't get spoken of a lot right now, things that you've had the heart to write on and whatnot?
I don't know. I really wish I could answer that more articulately. Andrew said before we began that I don't know is an answer. I'm really not sure of some of the different things that women are facing.
I didn't know about the pornography, but I know that culture is strangling Christian women and that they are facing a tidal wave from all directions. I know the young ladies that I work with, as a Titus II older woman to the younger, many of them are unmarried.
They're finding it difficult at work. There's sexual harassment that's prevalent in a lot of places. I think that's one of the issues. Other than that, I really can't say. I'm not sure. I'll probably think of it the minute that we click off here.
It always works.
Yep. Well, here's a question. What about women and all the tattoos they get?
Yeah, that has been a new phenomenon. I've used to seeing men with that, but women with tattoos.
I'm going to probably get in trouble here, but I am not a fan of tattoos. I think tattoos are ugly. I think they look like dirt. I think they look messy. I don't like them on men. And I think on women, it makes them look not good.
I think it's not a good look for women to have tattoos. But I guess in Christian liberty, if somebody wants to get a tattoo, especially if it's under where clothes would be, that's their business. I don't know particularly that there's a verse, other than the one in the Old Testament that says not to mark your body.
But again, if you're remembering that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and that you want to honor and glorify Jesus, which is our chief end on earth, is to honor and glorify the Lord. I don't know.
Injecting ink under your skin seems a strange way to honor and glorify him. But I guess some people feel that it does.
Well, I happen to agree with you. So if the ship goes down, I'll be there with you. Thank you for that. So, okay, what are some of your most popular topics that you've had recently you've blogged about?
Let's see. Well, Beth Moore always gets some kind of response, no matter what, to this day. The modesty issue, that got quite a few views. And I posted about a one-world government, one-world religion complex being built in the United Arab Emirates now, and it's going to be open in a few months in 2022, that honors Judaism, Islam and Christianity with three different buildings, a place for all three to come worship.
That seemed pretty significant to me, especially since in the UAE, Christianity, converting to Christianity is illegal and having a cross on a building is illegal. So they're going for a tolerance and brotherhood.
So I don't know how tolerant they'll be if someone actually converts, but that got a lot of views. Yeah, I saw that same...
I didn't see your article on it. As I was flipping through, I saw that you had written on that. Do you know who's behind that? I mean, is this a Rick Warren thing? Because he seems to be one of those guys behind it, at least the talk of it several years ago.
In the essay there, I posted a link to the source of the people that are building it. I know the Vatican is involved at the highest levels, and I know that it was part of the accords that one of the peace treaties that were done when President Trump was president, the Abraham Accords.
So other than that, the organization that's actually doing the architecture and the construction and the engineering is listed in the blog.
Yeah. Well, and they are right. I mean, Jews, Islam, and Catholics all serve the same God, Satan himself. So I guess they'll have one temple towards him.
So before you go with that, let me just give some shout outs here. We got a $10 super chat from Chris, though he didn't have any comments, or she. Give a comment. Yeah, get a comment, and we announce that.
But a super chat is something you could do on YouTube. We do have a new member, One Eternal Perspective, just joined the YouTube as a YouTube member. You can go to the YouTube channel and join membership.
That's another way of supporting us here. Super chats are when you put a comment in and you hit the dollar sign, and that gives a way that you can support the show. So we always try to announce that for those who are supporting us.
So all right. So some other questions that I had there. Did you have some more, Anthony? No, go on. One of the things that I notice a lot with discernment bloggers, all right, because you're doing discernment.
Yes. So this becomes one thing that always concerns me when you talk discernment ministries. So many of the discernment ministries, they get a fame for exposing somebody. And then it's like what they want to do is when they've milked it for all they can, they go like, okay, who do we go after next?
Okay, there are some who do discernment very well. Todd Friel, you hear him and he will say, okay, we don't know this. We're not going to speak on that. He knows where the line is. And he's very careful not to cross over it.
Except for vaccines and COVID stuff. He just gave different views. He didn't say what to do. He didn't give his perspective. Oh, he pushed that a little more than he should have. In your opinion. They're not in God's.
It's okay.
No, but here's the thing. When we have someone that does discernment well, for example, as we said in the beginning of the show, having Justin Peters tell me to have you on, knowing how careful he is with discernment, that becomes on where if he says someone is good, I trust them.
Because I know how careful he is. How do you keep doing discernment and knowing, you know, not to get baited in or get pulled into where you're just looking to expose people. Because there is a difference between the discernment bloggers that are just looking to expose people and someone like yourself.
And as some people you've mentioned to me, Michelle, Leslie, Amy, you know, that know where the line is. That don't cross over and do discernment well. How do we encourage people to first do discernment well, if they're going to get into discernment ministries?
But then second, how can you encourage people that may be looking to do discernment? How can we tell them what to look for in a good discernment ministry?
Well, I think first and foremost, if you are going to do discernment, be sure in yourself and from your pastors and elders that it is a gift that the spirit has given you. Because like if a pastor doesn't have, is not able to teach, and yet he's a pastor, things are going to go wrong very quickly.
And the same thing with any gift. If you try to push into it and you don't have the gift, and yet you try to use that as a gift, it's going to go wrong. So if you've been identified, or if you feel deeply that you are someone that has been given the gift of discernment, that's first.
Then secondly, I hope that that person would be a member and an active member of a local church, submitted to their elders or their pastor, and fellowshipping and learning and active within it with oversight.
Because all of, no matter how many gifts we have, no matter what we do online, our primary interest and goal is to honor and glorify the Lord through our local worship and our local lives in that sphere.
So do you have the gift of discernment? Has that been affirmed by others in your local church? Are you a member of the local church? And then going forward from there, if you're going to do discernment, don't let that be the only thing you do.
Because that's where people tend to get crazy. It's sort of like the people who only ever focus on the end times. They tend to go wacky after a while. You're unbalanced. You need to have a well-rounded spiritual life, a well-rounded prayer life.
And so I don't only write on discernment. I write on encouragement. I write on theology. I write on creation. I like creation. So now you're talking. I knew I liked you. You're talking my language now.
Yeah, well, I came to the Lord from the pagan perspective of Romans 1. Anyway, don't only focus on discernment. I was a newspaper woman for a while. I was a journalist and I did some side stuff like the Babylon Bee does with sarcasm.
It's very difficult to maintain that line of sarcasm and not go over into anger. And it's the same with discernment. It's very hard to maintain that line and remain gentle and remain loving, but remain firm and not go over into anger or to try to protect your sphere by getting more hits.
If you're more concerned about hits and likes, then that's going to be a problem too.
Yeah, and Humble Clay says church family is essential. And it is. I think you're right with what you said. I think the real spot is the people who are focused on the clicks. That becomes an issue. So we always like to announce when Chris Han holds us in the house.
So he had a comment here.
Here we go. I think he's only allowed to give comments if he's dressed up in his Captain America suit for us. Well, we'll go away while I was gone or something.
Well, yeah. What happened was he can't fit into it anymore. And so he got on a bike and the weather wasn't good for it. But he says it was great meeting Elizabeth at G3. Yes, it was. And I'm sure he got a picture with you because he gets a picture with everybody.
He did, but it was great to meet Chris. I've seen him online and it was great to meet people in real life. So Chris is a good one.
We tried to get him dressed as Captain America at that, but there was no way he was going to do that. So he says, yeah, just try to enforce that. A different Chris gave another super chat with $10. And so his comment now is the mind of the discerning acquires knowledge and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.
Proverbs 18, 15. So that is a good word.
And it will say to Elizabeth, you guys talk about discernment. You do have a five article or five blog post series from just a couple of months ago. So if people want to learn more about what you think about discernment, you did this back in August, right?
Five straight. What I tried to do is not only to point out who is false. Let me, my battery's running low. I'm going to slide over here to plug it in. Not only to point out who is to be avoided, but to teach ladies how to figure that out for themselves as a lesson.
There we go. Sorry about that. As a lesson for themselves on, you know, don't always have to rely on me. Ultimately, you rely on your knowledge in the word from having been studied prayer and the people in your local church, but you don't always want to have to rely on somebody online.
So that's what that series was about. Was just trying to teach people through example, what to do and how I think about it.
And so, you know, one of the things, so here's a one eternal perspective says great info. Would love to know where to get more info on experiencing God. Saw an article on Elizabeth's site. Haven't read yet.
I would like to talk to my pastor who approved a woman's study last year. So Elizabeth, before you get into that, I will say, I know Justin Peters has a lot on that, on that book, because he is, he has made the point that that's, that's really where a lot of this stuff started with people.
Elizabeth, we will probably never, we won't have time to get to the clip, but you and I were talking beforehand. The clip from Todd Friel had a Witnessing Wednesday clip that we, if we had time, we were going to chalk talk.
But one of the ones is a pastor, a pastor who is at, on a seminary campus. And he was, he, Todd asked him, why, why are you a pastor? Because the guy admits he's a universalist. He doesn't know his theology.
And he said, I just want to help people experience God. And you cringed when, when you, when you talked about that. What are your thoughts about the book, Experiencing God, and what resources do you have available for that?
All right.
Experiencing God. And when, just after I was saved by the grace of my Lord Jesus Christ, I was at a church that was all very excited to do the Experiencing God curriculum. And it was going to change our lives.
It was going to change everything. It was going to be monumental. I mean, the, the, the hype around that book was incredible. And I went through the curriculum and I was kind of troubled by it. It was very, very early in my discernment days, but I didn't like the part that talked about hearing from God.
Because as you and I talked before the show, Andrew, I am thrilled to know that there's a manual for life and that it's as solid as a brick and it's the Bible. So hearing from him, you know, out part from God or relying on impressions just seemed to be the wrong way to go.
I don't recommend that book. I think it's ground zero for the charismania that has by now overtaken the SBC with people hearing or having impressions or having visions of him. And I think Beth Moore took it.
She really took that to heart and mentions it early on in her, her ministry as something that impacted her greatly. And we're off and running. And so now we have two, three generations of people that are used to experiencing God rather than knowing God.
Yeah. And that's, that's the big, that right there is the big difference, right? And this, this is what we were talking about earlier, the difference between the theology and the feeling, the emotion.
And that's really what so much of this ends up being a distinction of. And I think that, I think what it seems to be with so many is a desire to avoid theology. You know, theology, that's divisive. That's for, you know, people who study in the Ivy League towers and things like this.
How important is theology to our daily life?
It is our life because theology is simply means learning about Jesus. That's all theology is. It's learning about the God who saved us, the God who sees, the God who created, learning about him, what his expectations are for us, you know, who he is, informs our life.
And we live our lives knowing who he is. I mean, we have, yes, we experience him, but we experience him by getting to know him more. And the only way to do that is through scripture, whether it's hearing the preaching or studying yourself.
It's the only way to get to know him because that is where he has revealed himself to Christians in his specific revelation. So theology is life. If you're not reading the Bible, how do you know you're God?
Yep. And that's the important thing of it. And people don't, I think that people think theology is something that we just, some people can do instead of, if you love God, you want to study him? You want to know him more?
That should be. But for some people that doesn't seem to be the case.
Well, it's lazy. It's easy. I mean, when they see all these women running around in women's ministry saying, I heard from God, I closed my eyes and I prayed and he told me X, Y, Z. Well, you can circumvent all that hard work of digging into the Bible when you can just put your hands together and it will plop down into your mind.
So that's what lures a lot of women, especially women that are tired and that are busy and that have children. So I understand that it's difficult to set aside time, but even five minutes, even reading half of a chapter for a few minutes will really help women in ground themselves in more solidity rather than less.
Because the times ahead, we're going to need it. It looks like you're going to need to have it in your mind and in your heart to withstand the buffets that are going to come to us from the culture.
So with the future that I think all of us agree is coming, the persecution and the government is not being friendly toward Christians. We just had another pastor arrested in Canada today and they're chain locked.
And so this is, you know, more and more common. Do you think that the people who are looking to the Beth Moores and some of these others, do you think they're offering anything to these women that will prepare them for a future persecution?
Absolutely not.
What has been offered through Beth Moores type of ministries and others is going to be wet paper towels that will shred immediately. They need the solid word of God. They need good teaching. They need the rock.
And many of these women's ministries do not focus on Jesus. They focus on our emotions, our life, our needs, our wants, our self-esteem. All those things are temporal. They're ephemeral and they will fade away the minute that trials come.
And what will they be left with? They probably don't even know where their Bible is. I don't mean to be harsh, but that's the way it is for a lot of women these days.
I don't think it's harsh. I actually like hearing straight and direct. I'm not great at beating around the bush.
And let's blame husbands for that too, right? For not helping to train their wives.
They will have a lot to answer for. The husbands, the fathers, they need to protect their daughters, their wives. Every minute of every day, they need to know what they're reading, who they're meeting with, what their ministries they're following online, what their women's ministry is like over there in the other building that they go to.
And I'm not a huge fan of segregated by sex ministries either. I think men and women studying together in a Sunday school class or in a home group is a very healthy thing. I remember years ago, I was at a church.
We had a small Sunday school class and there was a husband and a wife who came to church every week. I'm going to write about this tomorrow, actually. She spoke volumes to me and she never spoke. So many women these days think that you have to have a speaking ministry in order to count for anything, that you're not doing anything, you're not worth anything unless you have a speaking ministry and you're up there and you're strong and you're proclaiming stuff.
Well, this woman, I was thinking about her yesterday. She made a huge impression on me because she came dressed for church every week, modestly, not lavishly, but you could tell it was a church outfit.
She sat silently next to her husband, but was totally attentive to everything that was going on, took notes, occasionally touched his elbow, rarely, if ever, spoke. And yet she made the biggest impression on me as if she had talked every week.
Her modesty, her submissiveness, her demeanor spoke more volumes to me through all these 10 past years that I've been thinking of her than any loud proclaiming woman strutting around the stage. And I think that is what God's plan is for the genders.
And that is what makes the impression. And these days, that's really countercultural. That will speak even more volumes and with a bigger light and more salt than any kind of visions that people have that they strut around saying.
You know, with that, let me plug another resource kind of along those lines. At my church, I'm teaching through First Peter. And so on the Striving Fraternity YouTube channel is the teaching from this week on Wives in Submission from First Peter 3 .1.
That'll also be next Wednesday. That's if you follow the Rap Report podcast. And that's rap with two Ps, Andrew Rap Report's Rap Report. Elizabeth, doesn't that sound like a corny name for a podcast, by the way?
Andrew Rap Report's Rap Report. No comment. I can't even get her. The history behind that, Elizabeth, is Anthony came up with the name for that podcast. And I thought it sounded so corny. And we went to Shepard's Conference.
And I'm asking everyone, thinking everyone's going to agree with me that this sounds corny. And everyone's like, that's great. And so Anthony just smiled. And I'm like, I am stuck with this podcast name.
Well, it harkens back to the 60s when you used to rap. But on the other hand, it's really catchy. And you don't forget it.
Yeah, that's right. Well, I and I have to say rap with two Ps because the very first episode I put out, someone sent a comment saying, this has nothing to do with rap music. Oh, yeah. No, it's two Ps.
Like, OK, but but I'm going to I'm going to on my rap report podcast, I will be dropping that same episode, that same teaching from on from first Peter three, one on wives and submission. I've gotten a lot of good feedback from that.
And Melissa says, yeah, I like it. Thank you. It was I'll let you read that one that you put up there. Chris Anholds.
I still like the name my son gave him years ago. Andrew Burrito Rap.
So so but that's that's some things where a lot of people don't you know, they don't have a good biblical understanding of some terminology and of what you know, the way they think. It's like, oh, well, why submit to husbands?
And they ignore all the context around it. And so I go into that. And that's been helpful for folks. Let me just read this from Chris Anholds real quick. Back to the Beth Moore. He says the Beth Moore type ministries will utterly compromise to avoid persecution and will even even point to the persecution of solid churches as proof that they are, quote, mean unquote Christians.
As usual, Chris Anholds nails it. Yep. So Anthony, looks like you're going to say something. We do have about seven minutes left in the show.
I was just going to add on our our show friend, John Wilkinson. And then as soon as I was about to add him, he just got up and walked. Oh, there he's back. Any chickens today for us?
Well, he's muted. So no, technically, I'm at work. So I'm just hello. Just be mine. All right. Well, with that, Elizabeth, is there anything else, anything that you want to promote while on here, anything that either any resources you already told us what you're going to be blogging about tomorrow?
So anything you want to before we tune out, we do want to thank you for coming on. It's been a wealth of knowledge, and I hope that folks will be going to your blog site and checking it out.
I've been checking it. I'll show. There's a lot of great articles on here. I know.
I know. I know what your wife is going to be looking at tomorrow, you know, and it was funny that I got a message from your wife that said she listened to the first Peter Bible study last night at like four in the morning.
She's like, yeah, four in the morning. I'm like, what were you doing up at four in the morning?
Some days she wakes up like, seriously, why are you getting up? She wakes up, she wakes up and she uses that time to clean and to listen to scripture. I can't argue with either one of those.
All right, before we go, Chris gave another $5 super sticker, which I can't see what the super sticker is until I go over to YouTube. So Elizabeth, your website again is the-end-time .org, and anything that you want to say in closing?
Well, thank you both for having me on. It has been delightful. I want to say to women who are listening to please do not abandon holy scripture, even if it's five minutes a day. Five minutes a day adds up at the end of the month to quite a bit of a wonderful walk with the Lord.
So don't give it up. Don't give up your prayer life. Pray, stay in the word. And that's it. That's my life's mantra. Pray, stay in the word and honor our savior.
Well, that's some good stuff. And Robin Self says here, this might be a good closing comment. It says, I'm a total underachiever compared to Elizabeth. I don't know how she does it, but I am thankful she does.
Thank you. Chris Honhold says, it was a blessing to see you, Elizabeth. Sorry I was late. He'll go back and re-listen. And then Carol J1 says, thank you for introducing Elizabeth Pratt to us. We'll surely check her out.
And Marcy is saying thank you again, Elizabeth, Andrew, and Anthony. So we're glad to have you on. Next week, folks, the plan is, if technology and all things work, this will be the third attempt to do this, but we are actually going to have Justin Peters responding to the Sam Storms article.
Now, if you don't know what that is, Sam Storms wrote an article basically saying that you should be playing Bethel music and Hillsong music in your church. Like, you can do that, and basically critiquing what Justin's point of view is against having Bethel music in your church.
So we're going to have Justin respond to that, and that will be a very good show, I'm sure. Now, we know we've tried this several times. First time we had technical issues, the second time he had a conference he had to be at, and we had to change it.
So we've cleared everything. He's like, no, we're going to make this happen this time. So that's something to look forward to next week. That will be good to enjoy. And I'm just trying to look. We will be, as far as some speaking events going on, I will be out in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
We're going to be going out there. Basically, what we're doing is I'm going to be helping. Justin Peters will be filming. Hopefully, the plan is to film Clouds Without Water 3. So if you happen to be in that area, you're in the Colorado Springs area, this is going to be the 29th and 30th.
So if you're in the Colorado Springs area, the church is Hope Chapel of Colorado Springs. So check them out. And if you want to be there in attendance, that would be good. So that is, I don't know of much else that we got on the speaking for the rest of the year.
Anthony, are you doing any? I don't know if you have any events that I don't know about.
Yeah, a new one came up. I'll be doing the basic creation training course at a church in South Carolina. So I'll get that up on the website at some point here. That's November, Saturday, November 6th.
And you're going to be down at Josiah's Church.
That's at Josiah's Church, right? I'll be at his place the following weekend, actually, doing the same course. Okay. That'll be just a really small gathering, although anyone that wants to attend can be there.
Yes, he's got a small church. We're just going to help build up the church there.
All right. So those are some events just to keep you mindful of. Encourage you to go to strivingforattorney .org. You can go there to check out the resources there. You can go to christianpodcastcommunity .org to see the many podcasts we have.
If you want to support us, we would gladly enjoy that. We could use support. Go to strivingforattorney .org. And that's where you can go to find out how to support us. Elizabeth, thanks for coming on.
I think a lot of people are going to be checking out your website and some of the articles out there. Anthony, I think, is going to be glued to it. And we're going to probably have to have you back on sometime.
I would love that. And it was nice seeing you. Thank you very much for having me. All right. Well, folks, that is the show for tonight. Remember to strive to make today an eternal day for the glory of God.
And we'll see you next time.