Traditional Christians vs. Progressive Christians: Reaction with Angel Wilson

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Welcome to Wise Disciple. We're all about living effectively as Christians in today's culture, and so we provide information, we provide training and materials, whether it's on our website, our podcast, or on our new

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YouTube channel, so that you can live boldly for Christ and effectively share your faith in today's culture.

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My name's Nate, I'm very glad you're with us. So on the episode I'm sitting down with Angel Wilson. Angel was a participant in the recent

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Jubilee video that pitted conservative Christians versus what they called liberal Christians. I'd call them progressive

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Christians, and we get into it with the behind -the -scenes, what are some of the things that we didn't see that were cut.

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We talk about Angel's take on the arguments that he heard from the progressive

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Christian side, and we also get his desire for the church to take a different approach when it comes to the issue of homosexuality.

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So I hope you enjoy this interview. Real quick, don't forget if you're not a subscriber to our YouTube channel, you're missing out on fresh videos every single week, particularly right now in the area of sharing your faith, talking to anybody anywhere at any time.

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This next video that's dropping is going to be all about the proper order of persuasion, so if you are not a subscriber to our

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YouTube channel, definitely get into it. You're not going to regret it. But for now, let me get out of the way and let you enjoy my interview with Angel Wilson.

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With me today is someone who I was immediately impressed with a couple weeks ago. We discussed a

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Jubilee video that pitted what they called conservative Christians against liberal Christians, and today we have one of the participants in that video,

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Angel Wilson. Angel, thanks so much for joining me today. Yeah, man, thanks for having me. It's such a pleasure to have you on.

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I was really rooting for you in the video, and I know a lot of our listeners were too. We got a lot of feedback about you specifically from our viewers and our listeners, and just really super impressed with you and your knowledge and your ability to represent all the rest of us, your brothers and sisters, really well.

02:32

Yeah, man. Thank you. Thank you for having me, man. It was fun. It was fun. Glad to bless people. I hope to talk about this a bit later, but also, you're an amazing musical artist, and so we're gonna have to talk about that too.

02:48

But first, why don't we do this? Let's talk about you a bit, because I know some people are curious. What was life like before you became a

02:56

Christian? Man, watching cartoons went in the bed, dude. I'm serious. I've been a believer since I was very, very young, so grew up in church, grew up in a

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Christian household. I'd say that my relationship with Christ really became more intentional in middle school, but I've known the

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Lord all my life, and I'm really grateful for that. So your parents then were also saved, and you basically went with them to church and did that kind of thing?

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Yep. Yeah, man. Been in church all my life, and my mother was very adamant about me being intentional about my relationship with Christ and being intentional about living for Him.

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So now I'm gonna need to get some insight. So I have two small boys, one's nine, one's five, and man,

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I just want to do it right. What would you say, so now I'm veering already, but what would you say was something that your mother did that really resonated with you that made you want to go, oh,

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I'm gonna make this faith my own, would you say? Yeah, she helped me to recognize

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God outside of church. I know a lot of friends that would kind of see church as where God dwells, where God is, and where God stays.

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But my mom, she did a very great job at showing me that God's the one who helps keep the lights on,

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God's the one who puts food on the table, God's the one who helps me remember things on my test, God's the one that wants to know me, and so kind of seeing and experiencing my relationship with Christ extended beyond what happens on Sunday morning really, really helped me to see that God was more involved in my life than just the day a week.

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That's good. There is no sacred -secular divide, as Lecrae says.

04:55

Well then, so my next question was going to be, how did you get saved? I mean, was there a moment where you realized, hey,

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I'm in it a hundred percent, like it's not my parents' faith, now it's mine? Well, you know what, man, though I've been saved for most of my life, and also

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I rededicated my life in 2018, I think there were two significant points, one where I was saved, and then one where I committed my life to Christ.

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I think those were two very different, but equally as significant events, because I think there's a lot of believers, and one of them was myself included, where my name was written in the

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Lamb's Book of Life, you know, and I believed in the Lord, but it's a whole nother thing to say, I'm here, and I'm gonna lay down my agenda, lay down my plans, and I'm gonna do whatever you call me to do.

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And so, that's kind of where my commitment to Christ really started to solidify, was when not only am

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I saved, but when I chose to commit my life to Christ, when I chose to take up my cross and follow Him and die to Him daily, you know.

05:58

Right. Would you mind maybe delving a little deeper into the circumstances that surrounded your rededication?

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Was it an event you felt the Spirit's leading, like around a significant event in your life, or what was that like?

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Yeah, so, growing up, man, I had a lot of different issues that I had to deal with.

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One of them is kind of the obvious one, or the most popularized one, with like my orientation and whatnot, but I also dealt with a lot of, you know, family issues, and just a lot of things all throughout high school.

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Nevertheless, my senior year in 2017, when I graduated and got into college, man, just was doing a lot.

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I was taking 21 units at the time. I was working 70 hours a week between two jobs, just chugging away.

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And somewhere in the busyness, man, just got into sin, and I had to step down from ministry, which was really, really challenging.

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It was challenging for me, challenging for my family, just because everything in my life broke.

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And it was during that time, for the first season in my life, that life was still, you know.

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It was almost as if the earth was calm. And when everything stripped away, kind of, and you find your identity in work, and in school, and in ministry, when all of those things are taken away, you kind of see what's left.

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And I realized that I didn't have much left once all of that was gone. And so early in 2018,

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I really, really fell in love with God's Word in a way that I hadn't before.

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I went through Genesis, the Old Testament, and man, it just really, really blessed me a lot.

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The Lord just opened my eyes to experience Him through His Word. And so I'm grateful that all that happened, because I had to see that my identity was in knowing

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Him, and who He says that I am, and not in all the extra stuff that we're called to do. Amen.

07:56

Boy, I can tell you some similar experiences myself, but it really does reinforce the notion that, you know, unless you are put into the ground, what does

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Jesus say? Unless a seed is planted in the ground and dies, it cannot then thus bear fruit.

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And you know, that, boy, that is something that I keep having to learn myself, which is, you know, the way that the

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Lord works is He wants us to be totally dependent on Him, and that means stripping everything else away in order for us to realize that.

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It's for our good. So well, I am so, again, so pleased to be talking with you and would like to actually talk a little bit about the video.

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So hopefully our listeners and our viewers have seen the Jubilee video. If not, definitely check it out.

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It's on YouTube. We'll put a link to all of that stuff in our notes. But I was just curious about your general reaction, about your experience with the

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Jubilee video. Like, what was it like sitting on the camera, and you get, you know, in front of the camera, and it's like dark, you know, and then you have these spotlights.

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Like, what's that like? Man, it was, it was fun. It was my second time.

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But even, even though I was just as excited, there's just, there's just something about when you see what you saw on the internet, and it's right in front of you.

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I remember walking in the room, and they had chairs there. And I was like, Whoa, this is it. I mean, I had that, you know, even just in the green room, a couple of minutes ago, just seemed like,

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Oh, snap, this isn't, this isn't a video. Like, we're, I'm with him right now. You know, it's really, really exciting.

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And, and though we, we had to go through some tense conversation. It was just, it was a great experience.

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Everyone was, everyone was friendly, you know, off camera, and we all prayed together after. So it was a nice, really nice experience.

09:50

No hard feelings at all. Okay, so because you know, I mean, and we all suspect that essentially, the video is edited a certain way so that it provides drama and you know, you want to keep watching.

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But what I'm curious about is like the formatting. So like, how does

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Jubilee, do they just put out a general invite, if you want to be a part of a video, you know, just come here, email us or something like that?

10:14

Uh huh. Well, they have a newsletter. So they have this newsletter. And then from the emails in the newsletter, they'll kind of put out a casting call.

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They'll kind of mention all the prompts that they're going to film within the next couple of months. And so you just sign up, you kind of put why you would be good for it and just tell your story a little bit.

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And then if they see that you fit for it, that you get a callback, callback goes well, then you're casted.

10:38

Wow. So you knew going in what the topics were going to be discussed beforehand. I knew,

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I knew that it was conservative and progressive Christianity. It's all I got.

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So you didn't know exactly what the questions were that they were going to ask before they they're blind.

10:55

Yeah. Yeah, that's a boy. That's interesting. And you said everybody maintained good relationship.

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It seemed like some of the there was there was some tension between now

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I'm trying to remember Jason and perhaps some of the other. So Jason was one of the conservative

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Christians who at one point was really adamant about, you know, yeah,

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Bible is God's word. And and then the progressive Christians were really pushing back on that. But you're saying it was still very cordial.

11:25

Yeah, yeah, it was it was cordial. They, um, when we got there, they kind of separated us into different rooms.

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So I didn't see them, they didn't see us. And they mentioned that we don't talk about anything that we're going to talk about on screen.

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So once we got in the room and started talking, you know, things were tense. But after we got off, we we all are adamant to say, you know, we love you.

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And no, we don't share similar beliefs. Everything's cool. So yeah, and you said this is the second one that you've been a part of.

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Yeah, this is this is the second one. I did another one in March of last year. Yeah. Was it similar topic or different?

12:03

Totally different? No, it was totally different. It was fathers and sons.

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Oh, so it was just Yeah, so it was just the experience of being on the sun side of that relationship.

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So it wasn't nearly as controversial wasn't nearly as tense. It was a breeze compared to compared to this one.

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So we had somebody else reach out to us. I believe it's Sierra, who who was also a participant in the video.

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And she mentioned something that I want to ask you about. She said that the producers, the filmmakers, whoever were there, encouraged you not to quote from the scripture or to use the scripture as part of your conversation.

12:43

It was how does that how did that go? Um, so they I've, I do remember them mentioning them wanting them putting more of an emphasis on personal stories.

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And and just I think what they were getting at is they didn't want us just going so hard on scripture that it's just that's like, all we say, you know, just because like you mentioned, they do want an element of like, drama.

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And I think personal stories like they have a way of bringing empathy out of the audience. So I understood why they didn't want a whole lot of scripture.

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But I mean, well, and that kind of leads into my next question here, which is, and again,

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Sierra offered, I think this detail, which by the way, Sierra, thank you for that, you know, getting some insight into some of these things.

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But she said that the full experience was closer to like five hours or something like that. Six hours, the whole thing.

13:35

Yeah, so it was, it was long, we got there at two. And I know it was long, because it was much longer than the one

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I did in March. We got there at two. And then I think for about 30 to 45 minutes or so we kind of just hung out, they mic this up.

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And we filmed we started filming, I believe it was around three. And I think it was only supposed to last maybe like, an hour and a half, two hours.

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But I remember, I think we didn't get out of there till like six. So that long video was really like a two or three hour conversation.

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So so that was being five hours, but it was pretty, pretty long. So but that was due to the nature of the discussion that you were having.

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And Jason and Sierra were having with the progressive Christians on the other side.

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So this was not anticipated. No, no, no, we were over like we were we were running late.

14:30

Wow, they had they had another group that was supposed to do a different episode after us. So we were cutting into their time still filming.

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Yeah, right. Well, praise God, because what came out of it, I thought was some great discussion. You know?

14:44

Yeah. Well, okay. So then, however long of a stretch that was, the finished product was a 26 minute video.

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And so I guess the next question, and I know this was coming from our listeners as well was, how accurately were those edits?

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To bring it down to 26 minutes? How accurately did that represent you and your beliefs? And everybody else's?

15:06

Um, I think they did. I don't think it was perfect.

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But I do think they did a great job for condensing a three hour conversation in a 30 minute video.

15:18

Like I mean, for instance, Olivia, the the Asian lady on the other side, she spoke like little to anything in that conversation, but they put her first, and they made sure her voice was heard.

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So I think, you know, I think they they they did a great job with making sure everyone was heard.

15:34

There were certain cuts that kind of made it seem like I was saying one thing or came off as one thing when

15:40

I that wasn't really my intention. But I don't think I don't think it was bad, per se.

15:47

I wish I would have been more intentional about my resting faces just because I can look at them like thinking.

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And I noticed we had a lot of cut shots to like my face where I'm kind of just like down. But overall,

16:00

I think they I think they did a reasonable job at trying to trying to get everyone's voice heard and trying to get everyone's voice understood.

16:08

Yeah. So what so you bring that up and it makes me so my co host normally who

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I kicked off the show because I wanted you on I was like, Get out of here. I made I made that up.

16:18

That's a joke. But um, he was no, it's totally fine. But he, he was noticing,

16:25

I think specifically, Jason was going on and on, and they cut to you. And you're like, you look perplexed.

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And so I guess for him, he was wondering, like, what was going on in your mind, as you were kind of staring off into space there?

16:41

Yeah, well, a lot of things. But I think I, from what

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I remember from the video that happened where he was talking about, you know, homosexual, homosexuals, people that like sin or whatever, people that break the speed limit, all these things, and I kind of just, they won't be that way when they get into heaven or things like that.

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And I kind of was just like, just trying to take it in, you know? Yeah, sometimes

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I make weird faces when I'm just trying to understand what's being said, what I need to say next, just figuring it out.

17:16

well, you're in good company, or maybe bad company. I don't know. But so you know, I used to be a public high school teacher, stepped out of it to go 100 % into apologetics ministry.

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And I have angry resting face. So I'm Samoan. I'm part and I'm mixed with something else.

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But Samoans are, they just have angry resting face. So I remember my first year teaching, and I was thinking about,

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I remember thinking, trying to problem solve. And I do this when I, when I do that, when

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I problem solve. And this this girl who legit was in a gang, I was in the worst school in the district,

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I'm over here in Vegas. She comes up to me and she goes, Mr. Why is your face so evil? And I'm like,

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I have angry resting face. So I feel your I feel your pain, you, you know, it is what it is.

18:05

But, but that's really, that's really good. Because at least you're thoughtful. And at least your responses are extremely thoughtful.

18:12

And that's actually where I wanted to go next is, in terms of your thought process, when you were hearing from the other side, especially on the issue of like homosexuality, for example, what part of the discussion was on homosexuality, the

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Greek word, really referring to men and little boys, as opposed to men and men sleeping together.

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And so I'm just curious what your thoughts were and how you how you process those kinds of arguments from the other side.

18:49

Well, in the moment, I will say it did throw me off, I'll be the first to tell you, you know, I don't, there's a lot about scripture that I don't know.

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And so after it, I made a react video as well to the video. And I kind of looked into that comment.

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And I saw that one of the definitions for the word that she was referring to refers to pedophilia.

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But there's also another definition for that exact same word that talks about in natural relationships between men.

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And so I do think, personally, there's a quote by an author named

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Bob Goff, and he says, you're going to see what you spend most of your time looking for. And so going into that,

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I really wanted to be open minded about what I was going to hear. And kind of just speaking with anyone that doesn't share the same beliefs as I do,

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I really wanted to be open minded about what I'm going to hear, because there's a lot of things that bring you to believe what you believe, you know.

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And so I think a lot of their arguments come off of just a lot of feelings based things.

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And I'm not saying that, you know, that God doesn't account for how we feel about things. But there's a lot of things in scripture, there's a lot of aspects of scripture that that I don't understand.

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But I don't make it, it just seems at point that they were making their, they were making the

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Bible fit their agenda. And I just, I wasn't for that, you know.

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And so I don't know, I don't know if I come off as a stickler is that I just, yeah. Well, I, your handling of it, because it seemed like your response was immediate.

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My initial thought of all of that was that you had heard this before and you were ready for it.

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But what you're saying is this, this was kind of new for you. Yeah, it was completely new. I never heard that now.

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Well, you, you think really well on your feet, because that's exactly how I would have responded, which is, well, what about, you know, the actual descriptions, you know, that not the word homosexuality, but the actual descriptions of men with men.

20:50

That was, I think, a really great response. Are you, so if I can zoom out for a second, like, progressive

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Christianity is definitely something that has been on the rise in the last couple of years.

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In apologetic circles, I mean, we were initially concerned maybe 10, 15 years ago about what was called the emergent church, but it is now morphed into what we now refer to as progressive

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Christianity. Are you at all familiar with the movement and the thought processes behind the movement?

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Or is that also relatively new for you? It was relatively new when I got casted.

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I didn't know what the idea, I didn't know if there was a thing as progressive and conservative Christianity. But I've noticed the distinct differences.

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One of the biggest things is just the inerrancy of Scripture. And we even talked about that in the video, you know.

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And when she said that, I was kind of like, we're just, we're, we're probably not going to find middle ground there, because they don't think that, like, writing of Paul was

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God, you know, or, and so I've heard a little bit, I know a little bit about kind of just their standpoint on specific things like homosexuality, or like abortion, prevalent topics, but I don't fully know everything about progressive

22:06

Christianity, a little bit. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's definitely intricate, if I could use that word.

22:17

Because, and I'm not sure if this was one of those things that was edited out. I mean, maybe they explained a little bit further.

22:23

I'm trying to remember the, there was a senior pastor there on the progressive side, and I can't remember his name. Kurt, thank you.

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But so Kurt started to say, when Jason was saying, well, it's the Word of God, the Bible was written by God.

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Kurt was saying, well, no, it was written by Paul. And so I understand being more familiar with that, what that means, because people like progressive

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Christian leaders, like Brian McLaren, has basically said that, when the Bible was written, it was, it was basically people in ancient times, experiencing

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God, but then filtering it through their flawed human experience. And so they're trying to make the best sense of it, but they don't have a fuller understanding.

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And so we're the reader today in the 21st century, we're supposed to read between the lines, and figure out what we should take literally, and then what we should dismiss as just ancient ignorance.

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And so what did Kurt explain any of that? Or was it just one of those comments that were left hanging? Like, what happened there?

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Yeah, it was, it was one of those comments left hanging just because we said we honored the

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Bible, but they also said they honored the Bible. Right. And I was kind of, I was like, well, how?

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I just, all scripture is breathed by God, and it's profitable for teaching, for correction, and for training and righteousness.

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And just to take parts of the Bible, and to not take parts completely contradicts that verse.

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It completely contradicts God being the word in the beginning. Because if God is the word in the beginning, then taking parts of him and leaving parts out, it's just,

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I can't get with it, you know? Right. The upside to, you know, the other side, folks on the other end of the aisle, so to speak, the upside for them was they had very gracious tone.

24:15

They were very magnanimous, and it came across really well. The content of what they're saying,

24:21

I would disagree with, but that part was really great. And I'm wondering if afterwards, after it was all over, was this a thing where you were like, hey, let's stay in touch?

24:31

You know, we email each other or something, or go for coffee sometime, or how'd that go? Not on my end.

24:40

I know Brenda, the other lady on the progressive side, her and Kurt filmed an episode on her page, so maybe they stayed in contact.

24:49

I know Jason, the other gentleman on our side, he reached out to me and offered prayer.

24:56

But other than that, I haven't seen any of them again. Well, just super interesting stuff.

25:02

Now, there was a moment, and probably the most powerful, in my opinion, where you mentioned that now you started talking from your personal experience, and you mentioned that you were actually nervous to talk about your personal story, but that you also said that the church is kind of in the dark when it comes to the topic of homosexuality, and approaching the topic of homosexuality, and you really desire to move forward with a different approach.

25:31

And so I was wondering if you could talk about, if you feel comfortable talking a little bit about your personal story, but also how you think the church could just be much more effective, much more gracious in this area.

25:43

Yeah, I'll be the first to tell you,

25:49

I don't know what approach would be best.

25:54

But what I do know is that we are moving forward in our generation with culture and with society.

26:03

And so what worked in previous decades may not work now, because whereas homosexuality,

26:10

I seem, when I think about it, I believe it was more swept under the rug in a lot of years past.

26:16

But in today's day and age, it's in films, it's in TV, and it's a lot more culturally accepted.

26:21

And so what may have worked in the past, I just don't think works now.

26:27

And in my own personal story, I didn't get open about that until I got much older with my one of my very close pastors at my church.

26:36

And he did an excellent job, an excellent job at balancing loving me and answering really hard questions that I had.

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It reminds me of when Kurt shared his story about how he dealt with church abuse because he opened up about his struggles.

26:55

And as sad as his story was, it's not uncommon at all. And I've heard many stories also where people struggle with the exact same things and they go into church looking to find love and looking to find acceptance.

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And they get not even a calm reaction, but the extreme opposites get completely isolated.

27:17

And I'm just grateful that I saw John 8, that example of the woman caught in the act of adultery with my pastors.

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I think my pastor did an awesome job at balancing love for me with making me aware of why that sin.

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And I think one of the biggest divides we have with progressive and conservative

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Christianity is I think conservative Christianity, when Christ says, when Christ says in John 8,

27:52

I don't condemn you, go and sin no more. I think conservative Christians do a great job with a go and sin no more part.

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And I think progressive Christians do great with a I don't condemn you part. That's good. The problem is, is that Christ said both.

28:04

And until we find a balance with that, I think there's just going to be this huge divide, because I do agree with you.

28:10

I think the video did a great, accurate job of conveying the compassion that the progressive side feels for those that have been abused by extremists that have used the scriptures to bully people.

28:24

And I just think balance is what's needed. And I one big takeaway that I wish, walking in there,

28:33

I wish I would have done a better job showing Christ, instead of being more adamant about defending scripture, because when

28:40

I went in there, that's all I was thinking about was, was scripture being inerrant, and they're going to come against that.

28:46

But I think if I would have been more intentional about showing the love of Christ, I do think a lot more people that revolve with the progressive side of things in the video and just outside people that deal with all kinds of sin would be more open to accepting scripture as inerrant.

29:03

But I just believe a lot of people have used it to bully people. And so that's what I think.

29:08

But I'm not God. I don't know what we need. Well, I think it's a fair assessment.

29:16

And I think I'm with you. And here I am trying to figure this stuff out, too.

29:24

Like I said, before, I was a public high school teacher. And so every year, I would see more and more students, increasingly so over the years, come up and pull me out of the room on the very first day of school, telling me they're transitioning, and I should use a new name and, and pronouns.

29:39

And I think initially, I refused. But the more

29:45

I thought about it, the more I think I agree with you that there is a longer game to play than simply just being the moral sin police and saying,

29:56

I draw this line right here. I just met you 10 seconds ago, but here I'm going to draw this moral line and totally dismiss any relationship building in order to just stand on scripture.

30:07

And so I like how you say that to show Christ, instead of just simply defend scripture.

30:13

There is a balance. And I'm seeking it myself. Would you say this?

30:18

So this is where kind of my thoughts are going. I'm wondering what you think. Do you think tribalism within the church is a problem?

30:26

And what I mean by that is, from my vantage point, so I'm a leader at my local church here in Las Vegas. I see a lot of my brothers and sisters at my local church hanging out with each other, but not really going across the street, figuratively speaking, and hanging out with people who are non -believers.

30:45

And so when a non -believer walks up, you know, to the circle, I guess, they start immediately drawing distinctions instead of making relationship.

30:57

And that's tribalism. What do you think about that? It's something that I'm working through personally.

31:05

I've really, really had the privilege of going through high school having all sorts of friends, but I noticed a lot of my

31:13

Christian friends had Christian friends, and that was it. And when they would engage with people that had different beliefs, it wasn't even just a spiritual divide.

31:25

It just, they spoke different. Different things were funny. They just didn't connect, you know?

31:30

And so you have a lot of people where all they know is church, all they know is

31:36

Christian culture, all they know is Christian community, and then they go and try to evangelize to people that know nothing about any of that, and then wonder why it's not receptive.

31:47

And so I think, going back to balance, I think it's just a matter of understanding why people think the way that they do, because everyone comes, everyone has their perspective of life framed by many different things.

32:05

Many different things. And so you have to be really empathetic and really more intentional about understanding the world that we're in.

32:15

I think so, personally. And that's something that I'm still working through. Yeah. And I also see this immediate urge to categorize and dismiss.

32:27

And that's on all sides. It's coming from all sides. That is to categorize somebody as, well, you're conservative, you're liberal, you're straight, you're gay, and then immediately just dismiss, instead of seeking to understand.

32:41

I mean, I grew up with, I'm a little bit older, but back then, the virtues of engaging others that are not like you, they were still taught to me in school.

32:57

I don't see that so much now, that we're just a product of the culture.

33:03

We try to make things make sense in 30 seconds or less, and if it doesn't, then we don't really think about it, and it affects the way we share the gospel or we share our faith.

33:16

Yeah, I agree. I think that's something that even

33:22

I did. Even with people in the church, I think, I can't remember where I saw it, but when we see people, we gauge a lot of their personality.

33:34

Our minds are always making predictions. And so the moment that we see people, we try to gauge everything about them based off of how they identify, what they identify with, and just the things that come out of their mouths.

33:47

But I don't know the full content of what someone's heart is. You don't know what you don't know.

33:54

And I think that's something that we just have to be more passionate about keeping, keeping in mind when we're talking with anybody.

34:02

Yeah. We have a method here at, so just a few more questions, and then we're already almost over.

34:09

I can't believe it, but we have a method here at this ministry, and we call it the way to communicate your faith, the way to share the gospel.

34:16

We call it first date evangelism, and basically it trades on the philosophy of treating your interactions with somebody, especially your initial interactions, as if you were on a first date, because when you're on a first date with somebody, that could potentially be a really important person for the rest of your life.

34:34

And so you end up putting the focus on the person you're talking to. You don't talk about yourself on a first date.

34:40

These are the unspoken rules of a first date, Angel. I don't know if it, you know, my cousin sat me down when I was 19 on my first date.

34:47

And he's like, look, here's what you got to understand. Don't talk about yourself all that much. Put the focus on the other person, make them feel special, ask them questions about their life, get to know them.

34:57

And as they reveal more and more, if you hear something that you're interested in, ask them about it.

35:03

That's how we advocate communicating with non -believers as Christians. Is that something that you think is possibly a way forward on this issue, especially with like homosexuality, or what do you think about that?

35:16

I think so. I think when you have two parties seeking to understand each other, it's a selfless endeavor, and I personally think communication works better that way.

35:29

Everyone, everyone is a hero in their own story. And the problem is when you go and you speak to people under your understanding and only under your perspective, you can speak a language to them that just does not hit because you don't understand the role that you play in their story.

35:47

And so when dealing with people, when talking to people, making more of your prerogative to understand the other person,

35:58

I think communication, I think connection would work a lot better. But what do

36:03

I know, man? I'm just 21. Well, anyway, so we have just a couple questions left.

36:13

And again, thank you so much for sitting with me. I know our listeners, thank you. Is there anything that you would want them to know specifically that maybe did not come across like in the

36:24

Jubilee video that you wanted to make sure walking away you wanted them to understand? Yeah.

36:35

Don't take everything from the video and just assume that's exactly how we are off camera.

36:43

There's a lot of different things that were running through all of our heads, mine especially, just being on camera because I knew that a lot of people were going to see what

36:52

I had to say. And so nerves and a lot of other things can come into play.

36:59

And I personally think if we, myself, the progressive side, if we did a better job at balancing love for one another and love for Christ, love for his sovereignty, for his character,

37:13

I think it would work out. But overall, I think what's most important is

37:18

God. The Bible isn't about us. It's about God. And I think if we just do a better job, myself included, about being intentional, about making

37:27

God first, making God the priority and representing God, I think we'd be all right. Amen, man.

37:34

Amen. Well, so at the beginning, I talked about your musical talents.

37:41

Now, everybody, if you go to Angel Wilson's YouTube channel, you'll see what I'm talking about. He's got a number of music videos out there.

37:49

Your voice is, it's not the norm.

37:56

It's super, it's super special. You got something really, really special. God is really giving you a lot of talent.

38:03

And so I was wondering if you could just tell us, what's next for you? Is there an album coming? What's all coming down the pike for Angel Wilson?

38:13

Man, well, okay. So as of right now, for the past couple of months,

38:18

I've been putting together just songs for an album. I do have a single coming out in about two weeks.

38:25

So I'm pretty really excited for that. But I just, man, over the past couple of years, the

38:31

Lord has really, really been putting some songs on my heart. And I just want to make sure that whatever

38:38

I do put out is honoring to the Lord. And it's excellent unto the Lord.

38:44

And so I've been hesitant, really been keeping it and really been working on it. But it may take a while.

38:50

It may take, man, maybe a year and a half, two years for that puppy to come out. But until then, releasing singles, leading worship at my church.

38:59

And I really, really think when you hear it, I really think it's going to bless you, man. And here's the thing. I know,

39:05

I know everybody that releases music says that. I know. And I know it's just, it sounds super cliche, and I probably sound like everybody else.

39:13

But literally, man, I just, when I hear these songs, I just,

39:19

I can't help but honor the Lord. I can't help but glorify God. And so I really, really think you're going to enjoy it.

39:25

Really do. I already do. The stuff that you've put out, the stuff that you put out is really good.

39:31

And I'm not just saying that. You get a real special gift. So I'm looking forward to it. And I know that we'll be keeping track of what you're up to.

39:38

Was there, so you mentioned your local church. I mean, do you want to plug your local church? Any other websites or anything?

39:45

My home church is Wildwood Calvary Chapel in Yucaipa. But however, while I'm at school,

39:51

I'm about an hour away. So I've been going to Calvary Chapel Joshua Springs out here by Joshua Tree in Palm Springs.

39:57

So yeah, I've been out here. Joshua Springs, or Joshua Tree? Calvary Chapel, Joshua Springs.

40:05

Joshua Springs. It's a really pretty area out there, right? Desert. If you like desert.

40:14

Yeah. If you like Yucca trees, man. Yeah. I'm from Vegas. It's probably like the cover of a

40:20

U2 album, right? All the desert and the trees. Those trees are all over out here. Yeah, man.

40:26

And that's cool. You're on Vegas, man. My parents, they own some property out there. So yeah. Oh, okay. Well, look,

40:33

I would love to do this again. If I could find any opportunity or excuse to bring you back or work with you again,

40:39

I'd love to do that. If we can help you in any way, feel free to let me know. But definitely stay in touch with Angel and see what he's up to.

40:47

So his website is angelwilson .com. You can also find him on Spotify, on iTunes, and of course,

40:52

YouTube for his latest videos. Angel, man, such a pleasure. Thanks so much for joining me today.

40:58

Yeah. Thank you for having me, man. Thank you. Thanks so much for watching this episode. I hope there was something in there that really helps you to be able to communicate your faith well in today's culture.

41:08

We're going to take a break and return more with more theology, apologetics, and engaging the culture for Christ. In the meantime, we'll say bye for now.