Pulpits R Us

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth.

Welcome to No Compromise Radio ministry. Pastor Steve Cooley is here. We just got done recording the show, and those 24 and one-half minutes go by pretty quickly, don�t you think?

Super fast. In fact, what we�ve done to just kind of help our listeners out is we now record at half speed so that it�s now 49 minutes long.

Well, and then when they listen to the 1 .5 speed, like I like to listen to a certain podcast, then it all balances out. It sounds super fast.

I mean, think about it. Then you�re getting 49 and a half minutes or 49 minutes, and you can do it in like about five minutes.

Steve, do you listen to podcasts? Let�s ask that first. No. No? Why not? I don�t know.

It�s just not something I think about doing. So... When you�re at the gym, what do you do? I listen to... Well, that�s not really a podcast. I listen to Grace T .U. When I go to, you know, usually, or I listen to, what�s-his-name, S. Lewis Johnson.

So... Okay. But I don�t podcast podcasts. I just go to their app and pull up whatever sermon I want to listen to and listen to it.

All right. So it�s not like you listen to week after week and certain things.

I got you. Yeah. But I�ve been steadily working my way through the Gospel of John, although with MacArthur now I�ve been listening to... I just started his Isaiah 53 thing, so... Excuse me. I�m yawning.

I have that book of his. What�s it called? The Gospel According to God. Yeah. Which I would have to say that God�s a pretty good source for that, for the Gospel. Yeah. From God of God. Yeah. To God�s glory.

That�s right. Anything else happening in your life? What are you teaching in Sunday school? Shabbat Shalom. No. We�re done with Shabbat Shalom. I mean, I had to do a little tap dancing, but now we�re on to Oaths and Loaves or Oaths and Promises or whatever.

Christian Oaths and Conscience

Oaths. Christian Oath. Should a Christian ever take an oath? Well, I mean, you know, so many... Here�s the funny thing. Like with the Sabbath or with taking an oath, I think there�s a lot of freedom there according to what your conscience would let you do.

You know, if they asked me to take an oath that violated my conscience, the answer would be no, I�m not going to do that, right? Because I am with Luther. I think it�s unwise to violate your conscience, right, because it�s the Holy Spirit through the Word of God that is working to refine your conscience.

So why would you want to do something that, you know, would be a violation of your conscience? The answer is you wouldn�t. Would you? I mean, would you violate? I mean, I�m trying to think of an oath.

Well, let�s say, you know, for example, you know, during World War II in Nazi Germany, if you had to take an oath, you know, that somehow put the state above God, could you do that? Or like if you�re in China right now and they want you to take a loyalty oath to President Xi, would you do that or would you be like this Chinese pastor that I watched the other day the amazing video where he�s just, you know, saying, �We honor President Xi.

We pray for him. We do this and that and the other thing, but, you know, we have to preach the gospel. And I was like, �Whew, pretty good stuff.

Well, I don�t think you should go against your conscience. Regarding oaths, I don�t really have any problems with oaths if they�re a biblical oath, right?

Yeah, if it�s a biblical oath. I�m just saying, you know, if something, anytime the state or anyone wants you to take an oath that would somehow kind of preclude being faithful to Christ, you can�t do that.

Well, today on No Compromise Radio, we�ll talk about all kinds of things. And Steve, I think I want to try to make an oath right now that I promise that I�m not going to respond to anything you say with a smoker�s laugh.

So what I want to talk about today is pulpits. Pulpits. At least to start, pulpits. Physical pulpits. How do you say pulpit if you�re from the South? Pul-pit. Pul-pit. It sounds like pulled pork or something like that, right?

You got your pul-pit. Uh-huh, your pul-pit. It sounds like a hole in the ground, right, where, you know, where you put your pulls.

Well, that�s what you put in the center of the competing tug of war. Excuse me, I�m not politically correct. Tug of peace competition. Remember in the old days, you tried to pull each other into the water or through the mud or something?

Yeah, what do they do with those things now? You know, you pull until somebody�s starting to lose, then you let go of the rope because.

Seriously, I just watched the Prager thing about what do we do with boys and how to make you know, there�s not enough recess anymore because boys like to do that, and you know, boys make bad girls, essentially, is what this lady was saying.

And instead of tug of war, now they have tug of peace. What does that mean? I say you get the one side to pull really hard and simultaneously the other side lets go and then they all fall backwards, laying in the spirit of peace.

Boys are just different.

You know, I�m just thinking back, I�m flashing back to like this is the fourth grade. It�s raining. I grew up in Southern California. It�s raining one day at school, and there�s four of us, including me, that are willing to go out there and play football even though it�s rainy and everything else.

We just go out there and do it. Everybody else is, you know, under the eve watching us and just thinking those guys are crazy and yes, we were, but that�s just what boys do. Well, Nebraska, it wasn�t raining.

It was freezing, and we took turns sticking our tongues to the doorknob of the garage door. Nebraska. I know. Go Big Red. And then we went inside for our special vegetables, i .e. Fritos. They�re made of corn.

Hey, if you drizzle some Velveeta on some Fritos, we�re talking. We�re talking. That�s pretty good stuff. Uh-huh. I know. Anyway, in the little booklet, Pastoral Resources, they sell pulpits. And the two that they�re showing here, one�s called a foundation pulpit, and it�s clear.

It�s got like a dove there, your name here. I don�t know. Would I put Mike Ebendroth there? I don�t know. Maybe the name of the church.

I don�t know. It says your name. Mike Ebendroth. Just think about that. Hey, Pastor Mike, we�ve got a guest preacher in this week. Who�s pulpit do you want him to use?

What we do, the updated one, Steve, they can change it. It�s like a banner, a news ticker. And so when I walk up, it recognizes me, and it says Mike Ebendroth. And when you, it says Steve Cooley.

And when we have somebody in, you�re in. Example, John MacArthur, Phil Johnson, Steve Lawson. Or, you know, we have the one missionary.

We don�t want his name to be known. So we, you know, it says Joseph Smith because that�s what I call him when he�s here.

Well, I like this one because it�s almost like hexagonal, and I, of course, you know. What is that, though?

It�s like a leaf on there. I don�t, what is that? Yeah. So we�ve got two pulpits here, a foundation pulpit. It says wood top and vertical trim optional. And they�re pretty much glass, except for the bottom and the top and some supports.

The one Steve�s just referring to, it says it�s a winged pulpit, wood topped and vertical trim optional. And it�s got like a big leaf there. It�s a Trinitarian, tritheistic, Sosinian, your name here. And it�s got like a little special doodad on the bottom.

I don�t know. You could just put me down as not a fan. I mean, it looks like about one-third of a marijuana leaf. I just don�t.

That�s the cop coming through. I do not like that at all. Now, let me just read a little bit from Nehemiah 8, because we need some leadership, you know. Skills. Yeah, sure. �And all the people gathered as one man into the square before the water gate.

And they told Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses that the Lord had commanded Israel. So Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly, both men and women, and all who could understand what they had heard, on the first day of the seventh month.

And he read from it, facing the square before the water gate, from early morning until midday, in the presence of the men and the women and those who could understand. And the ears of all the people were attentive to the book of the law.

And Ezra the scribe stood on a wooden platform that they had made for the purpose. So anyway, that�s why these are out. We can't have a third of the marijuana thing. That's not even a dove coming down.

That's some kind of eagle. Yeah, it really is. Soaring like eagles. Yeah, maybe it is like an Isaiah 40, 31 thing, you know.

Maybe. Now, I think seminary told me maybe that's not an eagle there, that's a vulture. So how does he want to soar like a vulture? I don't hear many sermons. Maybe Stephen M. should get some vulture stuff, flaco vultures.

Yeah.

And you know what? We could switch like one Tuesday show to our theme song should be like, �Fly like a vulture. I want to fly like a vulture. Wouldn't that be perfect?

You know the old Steve Miller song? NoCo Radio, feasting on the carry-on of false teachers.

Oh, that doesn't sound very loving, Pastor.

I know. Why do you think people are so offended when, you know, you say something that somebody said that they shouldn't say? Why are they offended?

Why are they offended? I don't know. But I think the overall problem is that people come to radio shows, a podcast like this, and they somehow think that what they hear in the podcast should be what they hear from the pulpit, you know, and the two are not analogous.

This is not, you know, we didn't just listen to, before we came in here, we weren't listening to special music. You know, we have not had an opening prayer, nor... No worship. Yeah. Nor have we had, you know, a Scripture reading or anything like that.

And by the way, this is not an expository sermon.

Right. Because if they want that, there are other places to go. Like church. Yeah. And we try to provide a sermon on Mondays on NoCo Radio, just to make sure you realize we're not that crazy.

No. And, you know, I mean, part of this, would you say, I mean, is it fair to say, I think part of a podcast is you get to know the people who are doing the podcast. And I mean, you don't, it's not like, you know, we're in your living room and you get to hang out with us, but it's kind of like, okay, we're in your kitchen and you get to hang out with us.

Hey, you know what? Our slogan around here at Heavy-Handed Leadership Church is, we're going to get in your kitchen.

I like that. And while you're in my kitchen, would you make me some bread and maybe some iced tea?

Last night, my daughter Haley made a coconut curried chicken in the kitchen. Wow. Right. She got in your kitchen. So, you know, with the old fortune cookies or any fortune cookie that you get at a restaurant, you open it up.

And if you're, well, first of all, if you're a new Christian like I was, you can't even open it up because that would be, you know, sacrilegious, right? Because it's a fortune. So I refused to look at them for, I don't know how many years.

For about the same amount of years that I didn't let the kids go trick-or-treating or I didn't let my wife, you know, put wine in the vermouth soup or whatever it's called. But anyway, then after a while, you read the fortune in a fortune cookie, and then you give a pause and say, in the bathroom.

So whatever it says, you know, you'll have great success. Pause in the bathroom. And then everybody laughs their heads off. Well, we have a new thing for heavy-handed church leadership folks, for a little fun.

You read the thing. You know what? Bright, sunny days tomorrow in the kitchen.

Heavy-handed Bible church. That would be a really good name for a church. I know. Well, here we are at HHBC.

Tell me back to the pulpit issue. There's not a verse that says you have to have a pulpit, right? But there are things to be said for having a pulpit and placing a pulpit at certain spots of the church.

What's your take and strategy on that? Not as a must, but as a preference. Okay.

Well, I mean, let's just think about it. If you put it in the middle of the congregation, right, you're going to do preaching in the round.

Oh, now that's... Yeah, but especially when it's got my name on it. A new building design. You're kind of liking that, aren't you?

Yeah, yeah. I could be in the center with my name on it. Instead of like having maybe 120 degrees or 135 maybe of vision, now you've got a 360 vision.

Dude. What would you do if you went into a church, the person wasn't in the pulpit, but it was in the center and it was glowing, and then the pulpit name underneath the eagle vulture said Edgar Winters?

What would you do? Would you stay? I'd wait for the guitar solo. How about having no pulpit? Let's start there. Let's start with kind of the trendy, kind of cool, hipster Matt Chandler, Andy Stanley, where it's just kind of a music stand.

It's the music stand kind of off to the side, not even really in front of you. It's just there kind of for notes. Do you like that idea?

No. I mean, mostly because it's inevitable, especially with me, you know, not so much with you because you're well known for your fastidiousness and coordination and all these kind of things. I guarantee you at some point, I would knock that thing over.

Okay, knocking over.

How about, well, you know, we want to be nice to people. They're at a community center, this church, they're renting it. I've known churches that have rented mortuaries because they've got the little service sanctuary there.

And if you only have that, fine. Then that's all you have. Yeah. Right. But if you purposely say, I'm going to, you know, I think probably Matt Chandler's got enough money to buy a pulpit. Do you think Village has?

I don't know. I've seen their numbers lately. It's pretty slim. I think you could probably get a pulpit built by people who are not in unions and have never been policemen. They could probably find that.

You think? What about people that don't want to have any kind of barrier, any kind of sacred desk, as Spurgeon might say? They just stand up with their notes or an iPad, and then that's it. We're talking Sunday morning.

We're not talking about outreach concerts. Well, I think it's a sin, but other than that. No.

Oh, venial sin. What does the pulpit in the center of the church convey? So when people go to their worship services this Sunday and they look around and they say, oh, the communion tables on the floor, we're all equal.

You know, there's certain things that they can see, nonverbal cues. What does the pulpit placement show?

I think it says, you know, like if you go back to the older churches, the Reformation era churches, where the pulpit is elevated, what that says to me is the Word of God, the respect for it, you know, the respect for what's coming forward from it is elevated, that we should expect to hear something, as it were, from on high.

We should expect to hear, as it were, the voice of the Lord, not the audible voice of the Lord, but the Holy Spirit working through a man, you know, who has studied and prepared a sermon from the holy text.

Okay.

I like that. So let's think about those Reformation pulpits. And a lot of the Reformation pulpits kind of took over the Catholic church. And so if you imagine there's a cross standing upright and then you'd lay that cross down, that would be the blueprint of the flooring.

And therefore, the pulpit couldn't be in the center because that was the open area. So they'd have to put it to the side a little bit. And I think they probably would have rearranged it, but they're just inheriting these architectural structures.

But I like it that it was lifted up. And many churches would have, even if you think of R .C. Sproul at St. Andrews and Burke Parsons there. You've got kind of like a little reading area, and that would be for maybe announcements or leading songs.

I don't think they have a song leader, I think it's just driven by the organ. Then there's a Scripture reading pulpit, and then you have to go through the special door and the winding staircase to get in the preaching pulpit.

I kind of like that.

Well, I mean, I think it's all symbolic, but it does kind of make us think, okay, like he's having to go through these stairs or he's having to ascend or whatever. Well, it's kind of symbolic of the fact that he had to do some work, some preparation, you know, to get this message.

It wasn't just like spur of the moment, what's that? You know?

Well, Steve, don't you think that, let's just say you have the resources and the space and the money for a wooden pulpit, you know, or a glass or whatever it is in the center of the church, but you decide to go with a music stand.

Don't you think that it's because people are trying to establish a very casual, I'm approachable, I'm one of you? Don't you think that's what they're after?

And should that be the goal? Well, I think that is what they're after. It's kind of the whole casual thing, you know, I just show up looking like I just rolled out of bed, you know? I look like you. Yeah.

I threw a little gel in my hair and threw on the clothes I had on last night, just like you guys did, you know? And by the way, I didn't really do that much preparation. I'm just going to talk to you about, you know, it's going to be stream of consciousness.

Oh, it'll have some Bible in there by accident.

One of my worst styles, this has not much to do with the pulpit, but they've got the music stand a little bit to their left and they're just up there kind of talking. Think Andy Stanley. And then they've got a little screen to the side of them that they look toward, right?

Instead of looking out and maybe over where they could see the screen, they look over and kind of point to the three points.

I really don't like that. We advance to the next bullet point, please. Thank you.

I like the pulpit in the center of a church. That's my preference because that says the center of everything here is God's Word.

That's what I like. And that's, I mean, because it says a lot, right, about the church. What do we focus on, you know, on being casual?

No, we focus on the Word of God. Maybe you inherit a church from a mainline church or something. You've got a pulpit on one side and a lectern on the other. And let's say you can't move that right away.

I probably would even say as a pastor, as I'm standing to the side, to the left side, you know, please open your Bibles to such and such. And then I would explain why it's to the side, because I'd be too afraid that somebody like you might walk in and say, why is this thing to the left?

It puts a crick in my neck. I know, I know. Elevated, center, that says something. And if it's there saying something with symbolism, but then there's no Bible preaching proclaimed, it doesn't do any good.

And on the flip side, if your pastor is faithful and he's really preaching the gospel and he's doing verse-by-verse messages about the Lord Jesus and His Word, and he doesn't use a pulpit and he just stands there, I mean, why would I complain?

Right. I'm with you 100%. All right. So, pulpits. Oh, before we transfer to the next subject. Do you like wooden pulpits, opaque pulpits, transparent pulpits, plexiglass pulpits, glass pulpits, Kevlar lined pulpits?

I'm not so much keen on the transparent ones, but, you know, I saw something the other day, Janet and I are looking at quartz countertops, you know, for a new bathroom vanity. And this place we went into, they had like this, it's like a glass partition that water runs through.

And that's where I'm going. I'm going, now, that would be a cool look. I could deal with that. Whoa, kind of rushing waters? Yeah. You know, where it would obscure the view, but it would also be like really, really cool.

Okay, so Steve, we need to have these multifunctional ones. So you walk up and it's the Genesis account of chapter six and the flood. And then I push the button and it starts having all this rumbling water and everything.

And it just keeps rising and up, oh yeah, good.

And then I push the next button and it talks about the rainbow, and it's got these super cool rainbow colors. I bet your rainbow pulpits are pretty cheap these days. You know what? This is innovative.

You know what? I don't think we should be recording this right now because we're giving like somebody a really great strategy.

This could be page 42 of pastor's resources for helping pastors grow a big hair church.

This is cutting edge, cutting edge stuff.

I don't prefer plexiglass pulpits. I mean, if they're in the center and, you know, they, they're, they're the super proof. Yeah. I Kevlar, he can't, he can't hide the Kevlar so much there. But anyway, part of that is just, I, you know, I'm, I moved my foot to the left or, you know, you're going to adjust your belt buckle or something when you're not thinking.

It's just like, you know, I just don't need to be seen. I agree.

It would just be a distraction or somebody is like all of a sudden they're going, does he have blue jeans on? You know, it's just, you know, just not, just, it is a distraction.

Well, what if you were like Daryl Dawkins and he was the first guy who would play basketball for the NBA, Daryl Double D Dawkins. And he would wear two different types of shoes. So he'd have a Reebok on one shoe on one foot and some type of a Dante Hightower on the other.

See again, just a, just a distraction. It would just be unnecessary. I know.

Yeah. One time when I was preaching, I took my, my loafer off. It was a Sunday night. We were out playing hockey earlier on the Shabbat. And uh, I took my shoe off cause my foot hurt. And uh, then I put, try to put my foot back into my shoe while I was preaching on Sunday night and my foot moved the shoe too far behind me.

And so then I'm trying to extend my leg out way behind me to try to locate my shoe without looking down.

That was bad. And so then what if you couldn't get back on it? And you just kind of like hopped down, unevenly walked down.

Well, my friend has a one foot is size 13, the other foot size 14 because of some surgery. And what if I'm standing there listening, preaching and I'm like, wait a second, that's a size 14 and that's a size 13.

Could I see that? For the record, he should shine his shoes. 13 and 14. Those aren't shoes.

Those are, those are flat tops, man. Those are, those are aircraft carriers.

I guess we don't have time to go to the next subject, but overall, if you're at a church and the pastor preaches the word, we don't care what kind of pulpit he really has. We're just talking about, these are our kind of like our Piccadillo preferences, right?

Yeah. Total preferences. Uh huh. But, but we personally wouldn't attend nor join a church that did not have a wooden pulpit in the center of the church, high and lifted up with many stairs, 12 to be exact for the number of tribes of Israel.

I do think the idea of, you know, preaching the round does kind of have some appeal to me, right?

Okay. So do we have the center person preacher? Does that slowly turn like a Mick Jagger thing? How cool would that be? Or we have that stay the same and the people, they move. Even better. Uh huh.

Slowly, imperceptibly. So they thought they were sitting in the back and now all of a sudden they wind up, you know, being totally in a different part of the facility.

Steve, I've been to restaurants at the, you know, the, the highest floor of the, of the building and it slowly moves. You wouldn't know until you, you look up from your appetizer and then there you go.

And you know what?

I'm just taking this a step further because we have some people who always like to sit in the same seats. What if like it just kind of moved everybody around? It was like tectonic plates. Yes. It's like Tetris.

Yeah. So they all moved around during the service, you know, slowly and perceptively and they look over and they go, I thought I was sitting next to my wife and you know, you're.

How about put me in one of those tilt-a-whirl things and I just spin around real fast and then spew out forth Bible truth.

I hope that's what you're spewing out.

No Compromise Radio with Pastor Mike Abendroth is a production of Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. Bethlehem Bible Church is a Bible teaching church firmly committed to unleashing the life transforming power of God's Word through verse by verse exposition of the sacred text.

Please come and join us. Our service times are Sunday morning at 1015 and in the evening at 6. We're right on Route 110 in West Boylston. You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.