Biblical Wives

Welcome to the Laborer's Podcast. Tonight is a special edition. What is a

Biblical wife with the Laborer's Wives? Stay tuned. Welcome to the

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Now, let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast. Welcome again to the

Laborer's Podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for watching. If you would share this so that it may be encouragement to other couples.

We hope you will enjoy the show. We are very grateful for our wives being here and their willingness to participate and give us some great information tonight.

Tyler Noe, our eligible bachelor, is going to be our host tonight. Go ahead and turn it over to him.

The comment line is open. Let us know that you're watching. Leave us a comment or question. We'd be glad to address it.

Tyler, take it away, brother. All right. So, question one brings us to the subject of encouragement.

And I've gotten to see some of that dynamic from a mother -son relationship of how easy it is to either encourage or discourage.

But you've also got that tone of I put you in this world and I can take you out. So, from a husband -wife dynamic, how does your husband encourage you the most?

And how is he discouraging? I would say definitely one of the ways that I feel encouraged is random moments of verbal affirmation.

And it kind of catches me off guard, but it's also very affirming, letting me know what

I'm doing or what he's been seeing, whatever fruit I've been showing can be seen.

You know, I'm living out the theology that we believe. All right.

So, go ahead. I was just going to add, I love what you said there, Liz. I was going to add that I appreciate that.

Claude is very encouraging to me, especially as we've gone the reformed theology pathway.

There's been a lot for me to unlearn and relearn. And it's been a wonderful experience for me.

But he's been a great encourager. And the conversations that we've had, we've oftentimes had disagreeing thoughts.

But it's been like a coaching session where he's coached me in the ways of Scripture and encouraged me to continue to learn and to grow.

And he's just a wonderful encourager for me in all aspects, especially in just not just my

Christian walk, but in my daily life as well as a mother and as an employee of the company that I work for.

He's always looking for ways to encourage me. And I really appreciate that. It means a lot. Can I jump on?

With what you said, that's the way I feel most encouraged, a lot with what you said, April. Keith encourages me in my role as a homemaker.

He encourages me with our children, as well as at the church with different ministries going on at church or different relationships with people.

Yeah, I feel very... We talk about like being a safe space for one another.

And I think ministry life can be so lonely and isolating. But I know I try to encourage him.

And he encourages me. We really have each other's back. And you have to be that way, I think, in order for it to work.

Agree. I would say with Robert, he's very much the same.

He encourages me at home. He encourages me with the ministries that we're involved in at church.

He encourages me in all of the aspects of whatever it is that I'm doing.

I'm sure all of you know that we are foster parents. And we don't have shared biological children.

So to parent with him and know that he's there through all of it is just in itself a big encouragement to me.

Yeah, I agree with everything y 'all said. My husband, John, he encourages me every day, too.

Especially, you know, we have four teenage girls. And he's very outnumbered.

But he still sticks in there. He's a good girl dad. So I have to give him props on that. I like embarrassing my kids.

Me, too. Amen. That's your right. That is your right as a dad is to always embarrass them.

My younger brother's got that lesson last Saturday at a vow renewal. My mom went out on the dance floor with them.

So that was fun to sit back and witness. I'm sorry,

Tyler. You can go ahead. I remember the days when my mom would come pick us up from school with like an animal mask on or something.

I wanted to say just one thing. It sounds like we're perfect husbands.

Guys, did anybody notice that these wives did not mention one discouraging thing that husbands can do?

Well, that's part two. Tyler already put it out there.

And nobody jumped in. So I'm just saying. It sounds like we do no wrong here. Love keeps no record of wrongs.

It shouldn't. And Robert's going to probably remind me of that. It's not been that long ago that he had his hearing tested.

And the result of that, the lady who tested his hearing said that she had not tested anyone who scored that well or could hear that well in a long time.

And she instantly asked who sent him. And he told her, his wife.

And then your problem is not your ability to hear, it's selective hearing. Hold on a second.

Was that a medical diagnosis? That's what it sounds like to me.

I told you. So if we're talking about discouraging, it's the times that I don't feel heard.

And so I'm poking a sore spot with him. And I know that. But it is something that we are both working on.

I'm working on speaking up so that maybe if I'm not talking loud enough, he can hear me.

And he's also working on listening and hearing. After 30 years of marriage, there's not much these days that he does to discourage me.

I mean, we're in a really great spot relationship -wise with the Lord, with each other, with our families.

So we're pretty content. But I would say early in our marriage, there were times where, you know, he's been a pastor or at least a preacher ever since we've started dating.

And there would be times where I would just want to vent to him and for him to just listen sometimes.

But, you know, the preacher in him wanted to preach a sermon as a response to whatever concerns that I had.

Can I get an amen? Sometimes it was discouraging only because that wasn't the response

I was looking for. I just needed a hug, a listening ear. I really wasn't looking for a solution, per se.

He always had wonderful, godly things to say to encourage me. And that wasn't a discouragement.

It was just kind of like what you said, that it was the selective hearing or understanding what it was that I needed.

And over time, we've learned how to communicate that better to one another. Maybe let it rip.

He's like, just get it over with. No, I mean,

I just agree. It just depends. We're in a good spot, I think, relationally right now.

But the discouragements come not as much from within our relationship, it seems like. But we just have a congregation and we have stresses that kind of come from the outside.

We have six children. We have adults ranging, we have a one -year -old up to 25.

So at that time, we have a stretch. So, I mean, we have things outside.

Wouldn't you say that, Keith? Yeah, I think a lot of our stress comes from without. Yeah, I was going to say for me, same.

I agree. Maybe a discouragement would be not being heard in the sense of, like some of you have said, maybe he's not understanding what

I'm needing. But I would say in general, things have been a lot better. He's definitely very uplifting.

He definitely always goes back to the word, right? What does the Bible say?

What does Jesus say? And that centers me and it makes me focus on Christ instead of, well, what do

I need from my husband, who's just a man, who's a sinner himself? And definitely giving him his space to, yeah, like verbally encourage me in his own way as the leader of our family, of the household.

So I don't know that besides that, I feel too discouraged, I would say. So I don't need to get my hearing checked then.

I didn't say that, but yeah. All right,

Ashley. You up? I don't really have a whole lot of discouraging either.

The only thing I'd have to say is

I don't take any kind of criticism very well, even if it is constructive criticism.

We sometimes it might not be what I want to hear, even if he is right. And that's yes,

I admitted it. So that's something I have to work on. But just, I mean, you know, he uplifts me, so I don't have to say really discouraging, but I just don't take well to criticism.

And that's something that I would have to work on personally. One thing that I think about is there's a lot of times

I'm like, like you saw my brother Claude, don't bring me a problem if you don't want me to try to fix it.

If you just want to tell me about it. My man. I'm not your guy, but I need to learn how to just shut up and listen.

I mean, you got to think about it. I've been a mechanic and machinist and a dad since I was almost a teenager.

And I've been in the business of fixing stuff my whole life. You bring me a problem, I don't want to just hear a problem.

I want to see a solution. And so that's that's character flaw on my part. We always say you're not a mind reader, but maybe you should be.

Just saying. Leave it to Claude to bring in the organ right there.

Say it, Ashley. I mean, I could give you a list of the ways that I can discourage my mom.

I'm not even married to her. That's probably a good thing,

Tyler. I think that's illegal in this state. Are you in Tennessee?

Oh, wait, Claude's in Tennessee. I'm sorry. Down in South Carolina. I don't think that applies. That's an ally maybe, but not

South Carolina. Welcome to the Book and Your Squadcast, where we are interested in theology and political incorrectness.

You're a one -stop shop for everything biblical and offensive. So question two is placed right after question one by design.

It's the question of submission. Last week when we were discussing the husband aspect of submission, we brought up a lot of the caricatures.

Like when you've got the Baptist guys from the 1970s that were always talking about just dominating their wives and women should be seen and not heard.

I've come across people in my circles that use phrases like, take dominion over your wife, and go back to Genesis 2 to back that up.

But what is the biblical definition of a wife submitting to her husband, and what does that look like?

There's a theory component to that, I'm sure, but let's also maybe consider the practical aspects of that.

I'll jump in and be very transparent on this one. This was a challenge for me coming into our marriage.

I was the oldest child, and we were latchkey kids, so we came home by ourselves, and it was my responsibility to make sure my sister and I got the chores done that mom and dad had decided.

I was a very A -type personality, always looking to be the boss of everybody else.

Especially in our culture where women are encouraged to be feminist, where it's all about me and what

I want to do. That was very prevalent in my makeup, not because of anything that my parents were wonderful examples, my mother was a wonderful example of a godly mother.

But just outside external influences. Coming into the marriage, it was a real challenge for us, for me to submit to him, because I wanted to do things my way.

It's not something I'm proud of at all, and I wish if there were things I could go back and change in our marriage.

That would be the number one thing, is realizing very early on the importance of submitting to him.

By submitting to him, I'm not talking about what you guys were mentioning, where it's be seen and not heard.

Claude was never ever like that, but it's a partnership where I'm his helpmate, and it's my responsibility to be what

God has designed me to be, which is a support and a help. Sometimes that means being a background player, and there's nothing wrong with that.

That's God's design, and when you are acting in the function that God has designed you to be as a godly wife, there is joy and happiness in that.

It's not a trial to submit to your husband, because it's a joy to submit to him, especially when he is a godly man and trying to follow the

Lord in all ways and lead our family in all ways after the truth of God's word.

There's a joy in submitting to him and to his leadership of our home in all aspects, and that is not something that came easy to me.

I would say probably the first seven to ten years, it was a challenge for us, unfortunately.

I thank the Lord for repentance, for that gift to be able to repent of that and to step into what he's designed, because there is, like I said, it's such a beautiful thing, and it transformed our relationship.

Because there was just a caring and a respect there that was not really there in the right way beforehand.

So submission was tough, and a lot of it was cultural pressures to fall in line with what culture said

I should be. But being what God says for me to be was so much better, and it really made a difference in our marriage.

Great answer. Yeah, I did not grow up in a Christian home, so I feel very much, just to piggyback off of you again,

I mean going into our marriage, yeah, I didn't have that,

I didn't understand submission, I mean anything like that I was just opposed to that.

Because our culture also, it's like we're going to be partners, we're going to be, even just the language is just so opposed to it.

But there's such a joy, I mean I look at it like, you said it perfectly, like the background player.

I mean I'm responsible, I'm the household manager. I make sure that the meals are on the table,

I make sure, I mean I manage our home, but I also, I mean I'm his right hand woman.

You manage our life. I manage our life. That's right. I mean really,

I mean, you know, this is, could not do it without you, so, absolutely.

I'm so thankful that God, I'm so thankful for my marriage to him, and that I'm thankful that God has called me to the position of being a pastor's wife, being his wife, being his help, and it's a joy, joy to submit.

And when my sinful self gets in the way, and I don't, and I want to buck him, I'm thankful that we serve a

God that we can come to him in repentance, and ask for forgiveness, and he makes all things new.

Amen. Sounds good. Yeah, I would say for me as well,

I grew up basically in a single mom home. My parents divorced when I was very young, around five years old, and you know, she came from Cuba at a young age, had to work really hard.

We have a family business, I guess you could say, and there were a lot of hours spent working.

So aside from the fact that I saw her struggle to put food on the table, and the fact that there was no man around in the house,

I would say definitely looking back, that definitely affected me. And I did feel that like,

I have to be type A, I can do it on my own, you know, I don't need no man, even though I do need a man, but really like, you know,

I'm okay. That definitely colors a lot of your thinking, a lot of your behavior.

And I would definitely say that unfortunately, until two years ago, where I personally feel like that's where I was truly saved, where I truly understood the gospel, and I came to the

Reformed faith. That was when my, you know, my desires changed, where my convictions started to come.

And it was definitely a process. I feel like we are both pretty strong in our personalities, you know, like,

I was right, you know, I was right, and just learning to, it's okay to not always have the last say.

It was definitely a learning curve, but definitely feel blessed. I don't think

I do it perfectly. But I would like to think that I am definitely learning to let him lead, that it's okay.

Like we've said, right, like he serves God, who is the highest, who loves my, you know.

He definitely let me lead. Yeah. So I'm super, I'm just gonna,

I know this is the ladies thing, but I just got to say this one thing. Like she was saying, she says that she feels like she was born again two years ago.

We have a slight disagreement on that. But it doesn't matter. I mean, the point is that by the grace of God, we are where we are.

And she's done a lot of growth over the last two years. And, you know, she has absolutely let me lead, you know, and she absolutely takes care of the home and lets me go off and do wacky, you know, things like doing

YouTube channel or whatever, you know, not saying it's a wacky thing. I'm sorry. I'm sorry,

Keith. I'm not being disrespectful to you. But I didn't say nothing. You do the funny thing.

We are all actually on YouTube right now. I know this is true, but I know what

I'm about. So thank you. All I'm trying to say is just like, you know, the way that the

Holy Spirit has worked in our lives, in particular in her life, you can't do it without him.

And all of us have similar stories, I'm sure, of like, you know, I used to be this way or I used to be that way.

And maybe there's a component of me that definitely still struggles with that. You know, there are things in my life as well.

But the changes that I've seen God make in my wife's life, me knowing how she used to be like,

I know that's the Holy Spirit. I know that's God working in her life. He really has made her new.

And so I would just say for any lady that might be listening, you know, don't try to just do it on your own.

Ask God for help because he's the only one that can truly change that heart. Amen. Yeah.

So I was saying. No, it's OK. But see, this is one of those encouraging moments

I was talking about earlier. Oh, yeah. But yeah, you know, definitely just learning that it's

OK to not have the last word and, you know, realizing that the helper role is just as important.

And if we serve, you know, a holy God, perfect father, which I know that he definitely is, then

I know that I'm in good hands. Amen. Yeah, kind of with what y 'all ladies have already said, being the helpmate, that's our role and being behind the scenes,

I guess, as you would say, is fine by me because I don't need a spotlight. You know, all glory goes to God.

So if, you know, I'll do whatever the Lord leads me to do and what

John's our ministry, we go and do. That's that's where I want to be. And, you know, when we first got married, we wasn't saved.

So it's taken a long time to get where we're at. But praise the Lord. Yeah. Did you get.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to. Did you get saved first or did did

John did he get saved? Is it John? John? Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

In our living room. Really? Absolutely. Praise the

Lord. I was I was looking at television and it become abundantly clear that that I was going to die and I was going to go to hell.

I can't put it any clearer than that. I, I can't say that I had ever once cared about that ever in my entire life.

And there's no way I was getting around that. And it was in March of 2010.

And I told her, I said, I said, I have got to make things right with the

Lord right now. And I said, and I'm going to have to have your help. I remember those words.

And she prayed with me right then. And I don't believe she was born again until sometime a little bit later.

But even though she wasn't, she was still a help to me for our whole our whole marriage.

She's always been my my biggest fan and my strongest critic.

And and I need a strong critic because I'm aggravating. I mean,

I just want to know what she was watching on TV. I can tell you exactly what I was watching on television.

If you want to know. Well, I was thinking maybe it was Benny Hinn, but I was watching Obamacare. I was watching

Obamacare be voted in. And I said, yep, that'll do it. It's a true story.

I mean, the night it got voted in, I said, here's it. I said, here's a country that has become the most powerful thing in the entire world.

And they're going to ask me to do things that I refuse to do. And they're going to enforce with a rifle.

And I'm going to die because of it. And when I die, I'm going to go to hell because I don't know who Jesus is.

And I believe it was the convicting power of the Holy Spirit at work in me. And I had had influences from a from a friend of mine at work who was a believer who was continually pouring into me.

So I believe that that he was laying the groundwork. But obviously, it was the Holy Spirit leading me to salvation in that moment.

And I was a I was an alcoholic. And that night

I poured the booze out and I've never wanted to drink since. So we know you didn't become a

Presbyterian. Indeed, I'm not a Presbyterian.

I'm not a Northern Reformed Baptist. We drink

Welch's grape juice and we like it. That's exactly right. Unless you go to Apologia Church.

Yeah, unless you go to Apologia Church. We visited there and just say the grape. It was not grape juice.

We took communion at Apologia Church and we were not prepared for that. I didn't know they were using the real stuff.

Oh, man. Knock you over. Sorry. I'm sorry. No, no.

So sweet. You were being so sweet and I had to make. Well, my wife, my wife comes from the primitive

Baptist churches where that's they actually, you know, they got folks in a congregation that make the wine specifically for communion.

Yeah. Yeah. Strong stuff. Kelly, what were you going to say?

Um, I, I feel like I'm probably the worst at submission and I don't know that that's me being hard on myself.

I come from a Roman Catholic background and I didn't have good models of biblical submission as I grew up.

And then my dad was very much outnumbered in our household.

Also, there were three of us girls and my mom. And about the time my older sister and I hit middle school, he went on the road to be a truck driver.

And that probably was wise for him that he he missed a lot of things. But it also had it also my mom had to then step up and take on a lot of roles.

So I don't know that I had good a good model for that growing up. And then I was a single mother for many, many years.

And then Robert and I got married and I had already been saved before we got married.

But I had always done things my way because it was always just me.

And then I still struggle with submission and and I mess it up far more than I get it right.

And I would say I give it my best, but I don't know that I always give it my best. It's it's a work in progress.

And I'm thankful for his for Robert's grace.

And I'm thankful for the Lord's grace for how often I just get it wrong. Yeah. And I was just going to say that considering whatever background, like whether you're type

A or you found yourself in a situation where you kind of had to handle things for a while. And so you become accustomed to that.

I sometimes think to myself, like, I'm glad I'm not the leader because it sounds like a lot of pressure.

You know, I think but because I think about it that way, then that gives me the ability to be softer on him, to give him more grace to, again, allow him to do his role.

Because I can't imagine the responsibility of having to be the leader. You know, when you read in the

Bible, all the things that are required of you as a man, I don't think

I could ever. And obviously, I know we have a gracious father.

But, yeah, I think that that also helps me to kind of put myself in his shoes and, you know, realize that that that he needs help, you know, that that we each want to glorify

God in our roles. One of the things that I heard everybody talk about being like a behind the scenes thing, and I don't know if everybody feels the same way.

I mean, probably don't. But I can tell you for me that no matter where we go, no matter what capacity

I'm ministering in. I see my wife wherever I'm at and I find her and knowing that she's there and knowing that I can, as I'm preaching,

I'm just talking to her most of the time. And and she's affirming with her presence, if that makes any sense whatsoever at all, because I ain't by myself.

I know the Lord is with me and I know that he's there every step of the way. But I'm also, you know,

I'm I'm a big bearded dude. I'm also extremely terrified whenever I take the pulpit.

And and I know that if I say something that comes out of my mouth different than it went through my ears,

I can look at her face and I was like, what I say. And and just knowing that that we might visit a church where I'm preaching the gospel that is very gospel hardened or gospel ignorant or whatever, which doesn't happen very, very often.

But it has happened before. And she's right there. And everybody in that building might be mad at me when

I leave. But but besides Christ, the person that I care thinks what they think about me the most is

OK with me and I can walk out and take one on the chin if I have to.

And it's OK. And you can't do that without help. You can't do that without help.

It's not a background player. It's not a it's not a behind the scenes role. It is pivotal. It is it.

It may not be said as much as it should be said. I guarantee it's probably not as much as it should be said. But that that helper role, you can't do this by yourself.

It's impossible. That's right. And and you ain't got it. You ain't got to ride home with with all the rest of the people you're preaching to.

Yeah. How many of you guys ask on the way home?

Hey, how did I do? And you don't mean it in like a performance way. That's exactly right.

You're asking, did it make sense that I preached the gospel?

Was I clear that, you know, because, you know, she's going to say if it weren't truth.

Yeah, absolutely. And our conversation about every Sunday coming home.

And I just want to tag on to what Kelly said. You know, even though we've been married 30 years,

I am and I'm still not perfected the submission aspect. So I don't want anybody to think that I have.

I'm not trying to represent that at all because it's a struggle. I mean, we're still faced as women with the cultural pressures and the cultural messages every day bombarded with it.

And I work in a job that's very corporate America, which, you know, obviously has some expectations for how women lead.

And it can be almost like you feel like you're stepping into one role from eight to five and a whole nother role after five.

And it's a challenge. So it is not something I've perfected yet. But the Lord has been gracious enough to show me the blessings that come from submission.

And when this flesh rises up and wants to be the boss and lead instead of being his helpmate, the

Holy Spirit does correct me. And I'm thankful for that. Well, I think we just encapsulated three questions right there.

So I guess moving on to question number five. Living in a world that is confused about these gender roles, as we've alluded to a couple times,

I read a really interesting book earlier this year called The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self, trying to flesh out how did we get here.

And it was very philosophically dense. But the concept that the author was trying to establish is that there are symptoms of a bigger issue that's many years in the making.

And so as we have this ideology that's sometimes very well constructed, seems very sound to a lot of people, how important is it to live out what

God has said in regards to the differences in gender?

I don't know. Very important. I don't know, because I'm trying to think of this as a pastor's wife.

But I mean, more like, because of what the Bible says. I mean, it seems so obvious to me, like when

I talk to my kids, when I talk, but I know the world at large, like just turning on the television or just looking online.

Well, I had seen a meme this week that it had two panels and one was rebellion in the 1970s and somebody was like, sleeveless shirt and tattoos out the yin yang and piercings and all this and it's rebels in 2023.

It's a wife and kids. Oh, man.

That's kind of where we are sometimes, isn't it? Clown world. Yeah.

Clown world, everything's backwards. Yeah, I mean, I definitely think the whole gender, transgender, it's just more sin, selfishness, coveting, you know, wanting what somebody else has.

And like we mentioned before, definitely the messaging that we receive through television and advertising. So it's definitely important to look at Scripture and realize that we are loved in our individual roles, that there's a purpose for individual roles, that we both have our strengths and our weaknesses, which is why we need each other.

And there's nothing wrong with being different and being who God designed us to be.

And knowing that he's all we need, like he's the one that's going to satisfy every need and that we don't have to feel pressured by what the culture society says, especially knowing that it's a fallen world and just people are looking for something.

And yeah. I agree with what both of you said. You know,

I think it's, you know, this again, it's the cultural pressures of you can be as good as any man at anything that they are as good at.

And I mean, that's the message that is prevalent to our school girl age, you know, the children in schools, which there's nothing wrong with promoting strong women.

But it is something that, you know, I really value in our complementarian perspective where we really,

God designed it this way for marriage to be between a man and a woman for the very specific reasons that we complement one another.

Where he is weak, I am strong and where I am weak, he is strong. And, you know,

I don't want to leave this or leave this podcast to make everybody think we have the perfect marriage because we don't.

But we have a perfect God who works on perfecting us and taking us to more truth as to who we are in Christ and who he designed us to be.

And he made me a woman for a specific reason to complement my husband, who is a man.

There are things he can do that I can't do. There are things he does that I wouldn't want to do. And I'm sure it's the same for him.

There are things that he would not want to do. And, you know, the gender roles as assigned by God, if we just follow

God's plan, there's joy, there's unity, there's peace. And I don't want to make it sound like life is perfect because it is not.

But it is certainly easier when we're following God's plan because he blesses that.

And I appreciate, you know, the women in my life that have been examples to me as far as what being a godly wife looks like and being proud of being a godly woman looks like in all aspects of my life.

But I'm even more thankful for the Scriptures that even if I didn't have those godly women, and sometimes, you know, those godly women, they're not necessarily following Scripture.

It's their heart that they're following, which is good in some cases. But Scripture is the best way to know if you're doing things right.

And I appreciate the way that the Lord has designed our roles as a man and a woman in this union together.

It's pretty beautiful. Where's that organ, Claude? I was going to say,

I think the answer to the question is in the question itself. They are God -given roles, and therein lies the importance and the need for those roles.

I don't have any ability that's not given to me by the

Lord, and I sure couldn't figure this life without that. And so I'm thankful that the roles are there, and they're there in Scripture, so I don't have to figure that part out.

It's just right there, and what else is there? Amen.

Well, I can definitely relate to the contentment component there, not from a wife's standpoint, but as a 20 -something with autism.

Because part of what that looks like for me is I'm going to be 25 in a few months, and I don't currently drive.

And, you know, I've been given this formula that, you know, you turn 16, and you take your freedom, and you grab life by the horns.

And that's just not where God has me. And at the end of the day, I have to be okay with that.

And anything else, I've been waiting to use this drop. So if we go outside of God's design for marriage and gender roles, this is what happens.

All right, who's that? You all, come on.

That was the hatchet. Molly Hatchet. Worked with disaster. I'm saying

Molly Hatchet. She's got me. That might have been before my time a little bit.

That was before your time, Tyler. That was before my time. Yeah. Oh, you whippersnappers.

They're older than me, and it was not before my time. That's right. I know all about flirting with disaster. But you're from North Carolina.

You know about that music. That's a fact. Chair of a North Carolina. So before we—I'm not looking at the list, so Tyler, forgive me if I'm jumping ahead, but I do have a question

I want to just—if that's okay. Can I tack a question on to the last question?

Because we asked about the understanding godly gender roles.

And I know that—I can imagine that many of us guys are probably more active in, like,

Twitter and things like that, seeing some of things. You ladies, maybe. I don't know. I know Jennifer's not on Twitter, so I may only be speaking for her.

But there has been a huge argument going on about whether—we know egalitarianism is the idea that there is no distinction between the men and women role.

And then there's complementarianism, which is what you guys just mentioned. Claude, you know, you guys believe, and we do as well.

But then there's this more aggressive form, the patriarchy movement, which is out there.

And have you ladies experienced anything in your own churches where you have seen maybe a hyper -patriarchy where women are being mistreated and you've had to minister to that?

And I'm not saying—I hope I'm not putting anybody on the spot. I certainly don't want to be using names. But how do you deal with that?

With someone who is over—somebody mentioned earlier about guys who are heavy -handed. Have you experienced that?

Have you seen it? Because I see a lot of people talking about it online, but I don't know if I'm seeing it in real life.

And so—and maybe this is just—maybe I'm off base here. I just had—this is in my mind thinking about this.

I have not personally seen that or experienced that. Growing up in the primitive Baptist, some people think by the terminology primitive that you may have situations like that.

But to my knowledge and experience, no. All I ever saw was godly men loving their wives and honoring their wives.

I mean, just—we never experienced any of that in any of the churches that we've been in.

So I'm thankful that I've not seen that. Amen. And Keith, to that,

I mean, last week on the husband episode, that's one of the things like what Tyler alluded to.

That's one of the things that we talked about that I was referring to when

I brought it up. Because it—I mean, it makes me just—this is super spiritual.

When I bust somebody in the mouth, when I see them act— In Jesus' name.

Yes. When I see them act that way, because that is—the patriarchy movement,

I'll say it, I don't like it. I don't like it because I think it belittles and demeans the relationship between a husband and a wife to a—again, to a dominionist mindset.

Want to offer that right hand a fellowship? Yeah. Sorry. And I'm a little dude.

It wouldn't be much, but— Oh, you're squirrely. I've seen guys like you.

Little is much when the Lord is in it. I heard you got those gnome chucks in the back pocket, don't you?

That's right. He has some Bo Staff skills. Yeah. Yeah.

By the way, on a side note, not—again, not spiritual. I'll be the not spiritual one tonight.

But if you all get a chance, look up the dry bar comedy Shane Smith. Does karate.

Yes, does karate. That is fantastic. Oh, the dry bar is great.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Jennifer. Go ahead. Oh, just to tack on just about also the husbands and wives in the patriarchy movement, but how husbands and their daughters and sons,

I mean, just the whole dynamic, the whole family is—I don't know if we've experienced that. I think we—I see things eking in.

I see thoughts eking in. That's what I'm concerned about. It's not necessarily a practice, but just people using a language that wasn't even—I didn't hear it 10 years ago.

I didn't hear it 20 years ago, but I'm hearing language today of, you know, language of authority and it being all about authority and having this authority.

And obviously we understand there is a positional authority with the husband and a positional submission with the wife, but emphasizing that authority with a heavy -handedness that is so robust and so unhealthy, and that's what

I'm concerned about. And again, I'm sorry I missed last week. I was playing

Harbor Freight Doug Wilson with Doug Wilson last week. Well, and then you've got like the

Gen Z crowd, Keith. They're rebranding it as the trad wife movement because traditional was too long.

Yeah, I— It's very much the same thing. I've seen that, yeah. How have we missed all of this? I think it's because it's mostly in the reformed camp that it kind of happens.

Yeah. So I'll tell you, you know, I'm not—am

I heavy -handed? I don't know. I would say that we don't use the term complementarian because even that has become, not for everybody, but some people, it's kind of like one step before egalitarianism for some people, but there's a broad spectrum.

And then I would say, well, yeah, we can have patriarchy in the sense that the man leads, right?

And so in that sense, I could say, yeah, I can agree with the terminology biblical patriarchy, but what

I would ask is what do you mean by that, right? Because two people, like I could embrace that term, right?

But I'm like—but I'm defining it in a certain way. And what I don't mean, right?

I guess what I would have to say is what I don't mean is that I'm constantly on top of my wife. Hey, are you getting the chores done?

Are you cooking? Are the kids ready? You know, like you need to serve me, that kind of thing.

That's not what I mean by that. What I mean by that is, you know, you are my helper and I lead, and I don't need to tell you because we're on the same page.

Does that make sense? And so I do see that danger that has been just this kind of like not biblical form of patriarchy sort of seeping into Christianity.

And so I think we have to be careful when people are saying things like that, not because it's necessarily incorrect, but because maybe they're not defining it the way that we are, if that makes any sense.

Yeah, one of the big issues, you know, because I know you're on, you're out there in the world of,

Jay is the whole who gets to tell who what they can read question.

Remember that? Who gets to tell who what? I'm sorry. I remember that controversy.

Yeah, there was a big debate a few months ago about whether or not. Women can read without.

Yes. Are we supposed to tell our wives what they can read and can't read?

And that's what created the sort of the controversy within the patriarchy argument. And I understand there's also a negative.

There has been created a negative argument against complementarianism. I know what you're talking about where it's one step away from egalitarianism.

But I think what's happened is we've created this new category, this patriarchy category, and it's sort of put the poopoo down on complementarianism when that was what we were for 30 years.

But now it's not good enough. And I'm not saying that's what you're saying, but I'm saying that's what you're talking about. What happened with Joe?

He's talked about it. And yes, I agree. Like the way that he worded that, you know, and I like Joe.

I'm not saying that Joe and I are friends. Yeah, right. Yeah. So he's a great guy. But I was not a fan of how he worded that.

I was like, and, you know, later on, he explained what he meant and all that. That was fine. But you remember we were talking. I was like, yeah,

I didn't. I just didn't love how he said that. Because like, yeah, that was just poor choice of words, you know.

And so it's that kind of thing that I'm saying, like, you know, that can creep in little by little. And it's like, guys, let's tone it down a bit.

You know, we get it. It's good to be a man. But like, you don't need to like constantly be talking about how great it is to be a man.

Just be a man. Like if you're talking about it all the time. We're just outright attacking

Owen Strachan today, aren't we? Oh, man. Leave Owen alone.

We are here to talk about wives. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And Tyler, it's pronounced

Strand. Is it? Strand, yeah. It shouldn't be when it's spelled like that.

And I'll tell him to his face. If you're going to spell it that way, say it that way, man. Take out the C and the H. If you want me to say

Strand, spell it right. You don't call me Williams because it ain't spelled that way.

Sorry. What was the question again? Let's start over.

We're up to question number six. I'm going to mute myself. Well, I think we might have to hurry this along a little bit.

It's been great, but we are going really slow. So let's jump down to question eight because I think these last two are great.

I would love to carve out time for these. What are a few things that you would like to go back and teach your 20 -year -old self about being a biblical wife?

We asked the husband equivalent of that last week. Is there any, quote, top -shelf information you would like to share?

I would have to go back, you know, and everything that I know now, because at 20, I wasn't saved.

So it would be, I would have to just say, you know, hey, your husband's going to be a pastor one day, and I'd probably just pass out because I'd be like, really?

You know, I would have never thought that. So everything that I know to this point, which is still not a lot,

I would tell myself then, hey, get ready. God's got something in store for you. 20 years old.

I would have to tell myself to wait on the Lord's timing, because I've tried to rush things along and think, well,

I think that I know best, and I don't. But waiting on the Lord's timing is well worth it, because he brought, and I don't know how much you know of our background, but Robert and I were friends from middle school on.

We've known each other for a long time. But. And you still married him?

Yeah. Happily. But waiting on his timing has been so worth it, because I could not,

I could not have gone and found myself a better husband, a better, a better leader for our family.

I just couldn't have done better looking on my own. Amen. I would tell 20 year old me to get more into the word, not just as a, you know,

Sunday, Wednesday night kind of thing is to get grounded in the word myself.

You know, that's something that I was not as disciplined and someday still not as disciplined as I need to be.

But get in the word, because, again, going back to the one thing, the number one thing

I regret most in our marriage is my reluctance and rebellion to submit to my husband and to encourage him as the leader of our home, rather than, you know, fight him on things or want things my way.

So I would definitely encourage myself to get in the word, understand what my role is as a wife, because we had been married two years at that point, to understand what my role is as a wife, as a mother, as a pastor's wife, and really be in prayer more for my husband, encouraging him through prayer and through the scriptures rather than constantly battling him.

You know, that's one thing I certainly regret in the early years of our marriage. I agree with it, what all of you have said.

And just to add something kind of funny in, I would probably 20 years ago would have bought stock in Google.

I'm sorry. Got to get a back to the future answer in there. Some different financial moves.

That didn't pan out. So anyway. They say money doesn't buy happiness, but I'd always like to try.

It can't buy you happiness, but it does get guitars. I've never seen anybody frowning on a wave runner.

I've never seen that meme with Woody Harrelson, where he's like crying, and then he like, you know, he like wipes his tears away with money.

Maybe we're in the wrong denomination. Maybe we're like Big Eva or something. Start us a healing ministry.

Yeah, I don't know. This question's kind of tough. I don't know if it's because like, on the spot, but definitely a lot more being in the word, not totally relying on, oh, what the pastor said is fine.

You know, he's a pastor, so he knows what he's saying. I don't have to check. I don't have to look. Whatever little snippet

I got that Sunday. I'll try to apply, which never really panned out because I wasn't praying, and I wasn't reading my word.

I do like the comment about praying for your husband or future husband. You know, you don't have to be in control all the time.

I would definitely tell myself, and even now, it's a good thing to tell myself. Yeah, I don't know.

I would say those are the big ones. Yeah. And if you're listening to this and you're a woman, pastor's wife, woman, whoever, just get in the word today and just start reading.

Because times in my life, when I look back 20 years ago, I failed in so many ways, but I've seen my sanctification has grown.

Like the more time that I spend in the word, the more directly correlates to that.

Amen. Amen. I wish

I could go back to my younger self and tell her to do that. But now the Lord has been gracious to me with my children.

I'm like, please listen to me. Yes, that's a good point.

Yes. All right.

Tower? You want to take this home? All right, so final question. I can't wait to hear this.

Honestly, I would say same answer. Making sure that he stays in his word.

Yeah, that's good. And prayer, because without that, you know, how does he lead?

How does he encourage? How does he do anything he does, not just for himself, but for his family?

You know, the head of the home. When I'm slacking, if you can't tell, she does call me out.

That's good. That's a blessing. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. I would say the same for Claude, is that he definitely is a student of the word.

Always listening to some preaching, some debate, reading some book. Lots of things going on.

I think the only thing, and we've had many conversations around this, is just balancing that with the family life.

And not neglecting spending time with myself and our son. And just spending time together.

Sometimes just sitting in the living room together is a good thing, instead of in the study. So that would be the only thing

I would say, because I'm very blessed. He is a wonderful husband, a wonderful supporter.

He spools me rotten, and I love it, and I'm thankful for it. That would be the only thing

I would say. Like I said, we've had many conversations around that. Go ahead.

Go ahead. I don't know where to start.

Yeah. It could be good or bad. It's just bad.

You know, as I said before, I don't take criticism well. But I do like digging in the word with him.

Like if I have a question, it's kind of counterintuitive on that, because if I don't understand something,

I will go to him. And he does explain it to me to where I do understand it. And I like digging in the word with him.

And I think that grows us stronger. And then, of course, it gets us stronger in the

Lord. Because I'm not as biblical knowledge as him. I don't remember stuff as good as him.

But if I ever have a question about something, I go to him. And he does explain it to me well. And I think that is helpful to me in my walk with the

Lord. I think

I'm only – well, I shouldn't phrase it that way. I think I've been – if I remember back right,

I've been saved now for 13 years. And I still feel like there's so much that I don't know.

And I'm thankful that – like Ashley said, I'm thankful that when

I have questions, Robert is someone that I can go to. Because he is far more knowledgeable than I in the word.

And that's – I'm thankful for that. Because that has – that's a big help.

And I don't even know if he realizes how much of a help that is. Yeah, I mean, spending – making time for God is definitely the foundation.

You know, if – even for simple things. Like I need advice. I have a problem. You know, us as women, we're like, oh, this happened.

And I need to vent. And what about – and they give you – they're able to give you a biblical point of view, which, like I was saying earlier, kind of grounds you, you know, brings you back to what's truly important.

And the more time he spends in the word as well, obviously it shows in his actions and his behavior, which is inspiring.

It's a reminder of his love for God, which makes me love him more, which makes me love

God more for giving me a godly husband, you know, for giving me an example to follow at home.

So, yeah. I guess just me.

I guess I'm the last one on this. I don't know.

I think that is the most difficult part is because our lives are so – we're so busy, especially at home, is finding time.

We have – like we read the same scripture usually, or we read the Bible separate, but we talk about what we've read together, which is good, so we kind of – but I think if we could find more time to just be more intentional with that,

I think we need that. What she's talking about, we're doing a – right now we're reading through the

Bible in a year, and we both have the same app, so wherever we're reading, we're both in the same place on the same day.

That's what she meant when she said we read separate, but we're reading the same thing. It's because the app brings us together.

I'll come to him sometimes. I'm like, I don't understand. And I say, I don't either. I mean,

I'm thankful because I – That's Habakkuk. I haven't read that in years. I'm just kidding. Time together is – and again, not to want to add my own voice, but time together is the thing that we struggle with the most, just trying to make that happen with a lot of kids and a lot of responsibilities.

Well, it's one of six. I get that. All right, so in closing today,

Rob, if you would give us the gospel, and Kelly, if you could pray us out.

Let me share this real quick. Thank you, Brother Darrell. Thank you for the comments. I appreciate it.

So, yeah, marriage is a perfect place to see how we need the gospel, how we need forgiveness, because if we examine ourselves in light of how we treat our spouses, we can see how much we need

Jesus. And there's no way for us to live that out without him, to love our spouse, to fulfill these roles, to do anything in this life without the gift of the

Holy Spirit in our lives and the saving life and work of our

Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And so there's no hope.

As the ladies have talked about tonight, the world paints this picture, and we often get swallowed up in the images that we see and the portraits that's portrayed of who men are supposed to be and who women are supposed to be.

But if we're honest with ourselves and we look at reality and listen to creation as God speaks through what he has made, it cries out that there's a

God, and it cries out that... And we look at our lives and our lives cry out that we have sinned against the

Holy God. And praise the Lord. We have Scripture that has been passed down to us that shares with us the good news of the gospel, that we can be forgiven, that we can be saved, and that we can then portray that through an earthly relationship with someone else.

And what a blessing. And so we would just encourage anybody that's listening that you may be discouraged.

You may be in a marriage, and you may be discouraged. Jesus is all you need.

Apart from him, we can do nothing. So we would encourage you to, first and foremost, examine your heart, examine yourself, see your sin, and see that God loved us enough to send his one and only son, who lived a sinless life, who died on the cross, to take that sin upon himself, to take the wrath of God upon himself, so that he may save those who will believe in him.

And we would call out to you to repent of your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ so that you can live as God intended and find joy in that.

And that's the only way to find true joy in this life is to surrender yourself to Christ.

So we would encourage you with that today. Heavenly Father, thank you for this time this evening that we have had this conversation, wives with husbands, to talk about biblical marriage.

I pray that you would use each of us to work out your will and live in your glory, that we may reflect you to others, both separately and in our marriages.

I ask that you would help us as wives to respect and communicate well with our husbands and submit, show us the areas where you would have us improve.

And I pray that our husbands will love us well in return.

And we ask all these things in your holy name. Amen. Amen. Thank you, everybody, for watching the

Labors Podcast. We really appreciate it. And I think I can speak on behalf of all men here.

Ladies, we adore you. We thank you. Amen. If you would share this podcast on your social media,

I think it would be an encouragement to anybody who watches. Thank you again, wives and ladies.

We appreciate you. Thank you for watching the Labors Podcast. We hope to see you next time. Let me find the outro video.

There we go. Thank you for joining the Laborers Podcast.

Remember, Jesus is King. Live in the victory of Christ. Speak with the authority of Christ.

And go share the gospel of Christ. Be sure to tune in next time for the Laborers Podcast.