Biblical Wives

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Now, let's join our laborers for tonight's broadcast.

Welcome again to the labors podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for watching. If you would share this so that it may be encouragement to other couples. We hope you will enjoy the show. We are very grateful for our wives being here and their willingness to participate and.

Give us some great information tonight. Tyler. Noe our eligible bachelor is going to be our host tonight. Go ahead and turn it over to him. The comment line is open. Let us know that you're watching. Leave us a comment or question.

We'd be glad to address it Tyler. Take it away, brother. All right, so.

Encouragement in Marriage and the Ways Husbands Can Discourage Wives

So question one Brings us to the subject of Encouragements and I've gotten to see some of that dynamic from a mother-son relationship. Of how easy it is to either encourage or discourage. But you've also got that tone of I put you in this world and I can take you out.

So from a husband-wife dynamic How does your husband encourage you the most and how is he discouraging.

I Would say definitely one of the ways that I feel encouraged is random moments of verbal affirmation and It kind of catches me off guard, but it's also very affirming letting me know What I'm doing or what he's been seeing whatever fruit I've been showing Can be seen, you know, I'm living out the theology that that we believe.

All right. So go ahead. I was just gonna add I love what you said there Liz. I was gonna add that I appreciate that Claude is very Encouraging to me, especially as we've gone the reformed theology pathway.

There's been a lot for me to unlearn and relearn and it's been a wonderful experience for me. But he's been a great encourager and the conversations that we've had we've Oftentimes had disagreeing thoughts, but it's been like a coaching session where we've he's coached me in the ways of Scripture and Encouraged me to continue to learn and to grow and he's just a wonderful Encourager for me and in all aspects, especially in just not just my Christian walk but in my daily life as well as a mother and as an employee of The company that I work for he's always looking for ways to encourage me and I really appreciate that.

It means a lot.

Can I jump on? With what you said, that's the way I feel most encouraged a lot with what you said April. He Keith encourages me in my role as a homemaker, you know, he encourages me with our children.

As well as at the church with different ministries going on at church or a different relationships with people. Yeah, I feel very. We talk about like being a safe space for one another and I think ministry life can be so lonely and isolating.

But I know I try to encourage him and he encourages me. We really have each other's back and you have to be that way. I Think in order to be for it to work.

Agree I would say with Robert he he's very much the same. He encourages me at home encourages me With the ministries that we're involved in at church. He encourages me in all of the aspects of Whatever whatever it is that I'm doing.

He I'm sure all of you know that we are foster parents and We we don't have shared biological children. So to Parent with him and Know that he's there through all of it is is just in itself a big encouragement to me.

Yeah, I agree with everything y 'all said. My husband John. He encourages me every day to. Especially we. You know, we have four girls teenage girls, and he's very outnumbered. He still sticks in there.

He's a good girl dad, so I think even props on that. I like embarrassing my kids.

That's your right that is your right as a.

My younger brothers got that lesson last Saturday at a vow renewal. My mom went out on the dance floor with them so It's fun to sit back and witness. Can I remember now. I'm sorry Tyler you can go. I remember the days when my mom would come pick us up from school with like an animal mask on or something.

I.

Wanted to say just one thing. It sounds like we're perfect husbands guys. Did anybody notice that these wives did not mention one discouraging thing that husbands can do.

Love keeps no record of wrongs.

For a minute It's not been that long ago that he had his hearing tested and The result of that The lady who tested his hearing said Said that she had not tested anyone. Who? Scored that well or could hear that well in a long time and Who sent him and he told her his wife Then your problem is not your ability to hear it's selective hearing.

So. Was that a medical diagnosis?

So if we're talking about discouraging it's the times that I don't feel hurt. And so I'm poking us. I'm poking a sore spot with him and I know that. But it is something that we are both working on. I'm working on speaking up so that.

Maybe if I'm not talking loud enough, he can hear me. And he's also working on listening and hearing. After 30 years of marriage there. There's not much these days that he does to discourage me. I mean, we're in a really great spot relationship wise.

With the Lord with each other with our families, so we're pretty content, but I would say early in our marriage there were times where you know, he's been a pastor or at least a preacher ever since we've been we've started dating and there would be times where I would just want to vent to him and For him to just listen sometimes but you know the the preacher in him wanted to preach a sermon As a response to whatever concerns that I had.

Sometimes it was it was discouraging only because that wasn't the response I was looking for. I just needed a hug a listening ear. I really wasn't looking for a solution per se. He always had wonderful Godly things to say to encourage me and that that wasn't a discouragement.

It was just kind of like what you said that it was. The selective hearing or understanding what it wasn't that I needed and over time we've learned how to communicate that better to one another. Maybe let it rip.

I Mean I just agree it it just depends like we're in a good spot I think relationally right now, but the discouragements come not as much from within our relationship. It seems like but we just Have a congregation and we have stresses that kind of come from the outside.

We have six children. We have adults ranging we have a one-year-old up to 25. So at that time we have a stretch. So I mean we have things with out Outside wouldn't you say that Keith? No. Yeah, I think Yeah.

Yeah, I was gonna say for me same, you know, I agree. Maybe a discouragement would be not being heard in the sense of like some of you have said maybe he's not Understanding what I'm needing but I would say in general Things have been a lot better.

He's definitely very uplifting. He definitely Remind it always goes back to the word, right? What does the Bible say? What does Jesus say and that centers me and it makes me focus on Christ instead of well What do I need from my husband?

Who's just a man who's a sinner himself? And definitely giving him his space to Yeah, like verbally encourage me in his own way as the leader, you know of our family of the household. So, I don't know that besides that I feel too discouraged.

I would say so I don't need to get my hair in check. I didn't say that but Don't really have a whole lot of discouraging either. Only thing I'd have to say is I don't take any kind of criticism very well, even if it is constructive criticism we Sometimes this might not be what I want to hear even if he is, right and that's yes, I admitted it Something I have to work on but just I mean You know, he uplifts me so I don't have to say really discouraging.

But I just don't take well to criticism and that's something that I would have to work on personally. One thing that I think would.

That I think about is there's a lot of times. I'm like, but like you saw my brother Claude. Don't don't bring me a problem. If you don't want me to try to fix it I'm not your guy, but I need to learn how to just shut up.

I've been a mechanic and machinist and a dad since I was almost a teenager and Been the business of fixing stuff my whole life. You bring me a problem. I don't want to just hear a problem. I want to see a solution and.

So that's that's character flaw on my part. We always say you're not a mind reader, but maybe you should be.

Actually, I Mean I could give you a list of the ways that I can discourage my mom and I'm not even married to her. Are you in Tennessee?

I Swear we are interested in theology and political incorrectness.

Your one-stop shop. Everything biblical and offensive.

Biblical Submission, Headship, and the Joy of Being a Helpmeet

The question two is placed right after question one by design. It's the question of submission. Last week when we were discussing the husband aspect of submission. We brought up a lot of the a lot of the.

The the caricatures like when you've got the like the Baptist Guys from the 1970s that were always talking about just dominating their their wives and women should be seen and not heard. I've heard I've come across people in my circles that use phrases like take dominion over your wife and go back to Genesis 2 to back that up.

But what is the biblical definition of a wife submitting to her husband? And what does that look like? There's a theory component to that. I'm sure but let's also maybe consider the practical aspects of that.

I'll jump in and be very transparent on this one. This was a challenge for me coming into our marriage. I was the oldest child and we were latchkey kids so we came home by ourselves and it was my Responsibility to make sure my sister and I got the chores done that mom and dad had decided.

So, you know, I was a very a type personality always, you know looking to be the boss of everybody else and especially in our culture where women are encouraged to be Feminists, you know where it's all about me and what I want to do that was very prevalent in my Makeup not because of anything that my my parents were wonderful examples.

My mother was a wonderful example of a godly mother, but just outside external influences. And so coming into the marriage that was a real challenge for us. For me to submit to him because I wanted to do things my way and it's not something I'm proud of at all and I wish you know, if there were things I could go back and change in our marriage.

That would be the number one thing is realizing very early on the importance of submitting to him and by submitting to him. I'm not talking about what what you guys were mentioning where it's be seen and not heard.

Claude was never ever like that. But it's a it's a partnership where I'm his helpmate and it's my responsibility to be what God has designed me to be which is a support and a help and Sometimes that means being a background player and there's nothing wrong with that.

That's God's design and when you are acting and the function that God has designed you to be as a godly wife. There is joy and happiness in that it's not a trial to submit to your husband. Because it's a joy to submit to him.

Especially when he is a godly man and trying to follow The Lord and always and lead our family in all ways after the truth of God's Word. There's a joy in submitting to him and to his leadership of our home.

In all aspects and that that is not something that came easy to me. And I would say probably the first seven to ten years. It was a challenge for us. Unfortunately, you know and I thank the Lord for repentance for that gift to be able to repent of that and to Step into what he's designed because there is like I said, it's such a beautiful thing and it it transformed our relationship because there was just a Caring and a respect there that was not really there in in a in the right way beforehand.

So submission was tough and a lot of it was cultural you know pressures to fall in line with what culture said I should be and But being what God says for me to be Was so much better and it really made a difference in our marriage.

Yeah, I Did not grow up in a Christian home. So I feel very much just to piggyback off of you again I mean going into our marriage. Yeah, I didn't have that I didn't understand Submission. I mean anything like that.

I was just opposed to that like Because our culture also it's like we're gonna be partners. We're going to be the even just the language is just so Opposed to it, but there's such a joy. I mean, I look at it like Like what you said it perfectly like the background player.

I mean, I'm Responsible. I I'm the household manager. I make sure that the meals are on the table I make sure I mean I manage our home, but I also I mean I'm his right right hand woman. You manage our life.

I mean really I mean, you know, this is. Could not do it without you. So absolutely.

I'm so thankful that God I'm so thankful for my marriage to him and that I'm thankful that God has called me to the position of being a pastor's wife being his wife being his help and It's a joy Joy to submit and when my sinful self gets in the way and I don't and I want to buck him I'm thankful that we serve a God that we can come to him in repentance and Ask for forgiveness and he makes all things new.

Yeah, I would say For me as well. I grew up basically in a single mom home. My parents divorced when I was very young around five years old and You know, she came from Cuba at a young age had to work really hard.

We have a family business. I guess you could say and there were a lot a lot of hours spent working. So aside from the fact that I saw her struggle To put food on the table and the fact that there was no man around in the house I would say definitely looking back that definitely affected me.

And I did feel that like I have to be type a I can do it on my own. You know, I don't need no man, even though I do need a man, but but really like, you know, I'm okay. That definitely Colors a lot of your thinking a lot of your behavior and I would definitely say that unfortunately until two years ago Where I I personally feel like that's where I was truly saved where I truly understood the gospel.

And I came to the Reformed faith. That was when my you know, my Desires changed where my convictions started to come and It was definitely a process. I feel like we are both pretty strong in our personalities, you know, like I Was right, you know, I was right and just learning to it's okay to not always have the last say.

It was definitely a learning curve, but definitely feel blessed. I don't think I do it perfectly. But I would like to think that I am definitely Learning to let him lead that it's okay. Like like we've said right like he serves God who is the highest who loves my You know.

Yeah, I'm super. I'm I'm just gonna. I know it's this is the ladies thing, but I just got to say this one thing like She. She like she was saying she says that she feels like she was born again two years ago.

We have a slight disagreement on that. But but it doesn't matter. I mean the point is that by the grace of God we are where we are and she's done a lot of growth over the last two years and You know, she has absolutely let me lead, you know, and she absolutely takes care of the home.

And lets me go off and do wacky, you know things like doing YouTube channel or whatever, you know, not not saying I'm sorry, Keith. I'm not. I'm not disrespectful.

We are all actually on YouTube right now, I know.

But I know what I'm about so thank you. All I'm trying to say is just like, you know, the the way that the Holy Spirit has worked in our lives in particular in her life. You you can't do it without him, you know.

And and all of us have similar stories I'm sure of. Like, you know, I used to be this way. I used to be that way and maybe there's a component of me that definitely still struggles with that. You know, there are things in my life as well.

But the changes that I've seen God make in my wife's life. I Mean knowing how she used to be. Like, I know that's the Holy Spirit. I know that's God working in her life. He really has made her new and So I'm I would just say for any lady that might be listening, you know.

Don't try to just do it on your own. Ask God for help because he's the only one that can truly change that heart.

Man. Amen amen. Yeah, so so I was saying no, it's okay. But see this is one of those encouraging moments I was talking about earlier. Yeah. But yeah, you know definitely just learning that it's okay to not have the last word and You know.

Realizing that the helper role is just as important and if we serve, you know a holy God perfect father. Which I know that he definitely is then. I know that I'm in good hands. Yeah, kind of with what y 'all ladies have already said and being the helpmate that's our role.

And being behind the scenes I guess as you would say it's fine by me because I don't need a spotlight, you know, all glory goes to God and so if You know, I'll do whatever the Lord leads me to do. And what.

John's our ministry we go and do. That's that's where I want to be. And you know when we first got married we wasn't saved so it's taken a long Time to get where we're at.

Did you get. Um, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to. Did you get saved first or did. Did John. Did he get saved. Is it John. John? Yeah. In our living room.

Really? Absolutely. Race the Lord I was uh, I was looking at television and It become abundantly clear that That I was gonna die And I was gonna go to hell. I can't put it any clearer than that I I can't say that I had ever once cared about that ever in my entire life and There's no way I was getting around that and It was in March of 2010 and I told her I said, uh, I said I have got to make things right with the Lord right now and I said and I'm gonna have to have your help.

I remember those words. And she prayed with me right then and I don't believe she was born again until sometime a little bit later but even though She wasn't she was still a help to me. For our whole our whole marriage she's always been my biggest fan.

And my strongest critic. Yeah, and And I need a strong critic because I'm aggravating.

I mean, I just want to know what she was watching on TV. I can tell you exactly what I was watching. If you want to know. Well, I was thinking maybe it's Benny Hinn, but I was watching Obamacare.

I was watching Obamacare be voted in I mean the night it got voted in I said here's it I said here's a country that has become the most powerful thing in the entire world and they're gonna ask me to do things that I refuse to do and They're gonna enforce with a rifle and I'm gonna die because of it and when I die, I'm gonna go to hell.

Because I don't know who Jesus is and I Believe it was the convicting power of the Holy Spirit at work in me and I had had influences. From a from a friend of mine at work who was a believer who was continually pouring into me so I believe that that he was laying the groundwork, but Obviously, it was the Holy Spirit leading me to salvation in that moment.

And I was a I was a an alcoholic and That night I poured the the booze out and I've never wanted a drink since.

So we know you didn't become a Presbyterian. We drink Welch's grape juice and we like.

Let's you go to Apologia Church. Yeah, let's you go to Apologia. We visited there and just say the grape.

It was not grape juice. We took communion at Apologia Church, and we were not prepared for that. You were being so sweet and I had to make.

Well, my wife my wife comes from The Primitive Baptist Churches where that's they. Actually, you know, they got folks in a congregation that make the wine specifically for Communion. Yeah. Strong stuff Kelly.

What were you gonna say? Um, I I feel like I'm.

Probably the worst at Submission And I don't know that that's me being hard on myself. I come from a Roman Catholic background and I didn't have good models of Biblical submission as I grew up and then My dad was Very much outnumbered in our household.

Also there were three of us girls and my mom and About the time my older sister and I hit middle school. He went on the road to be a truck driver And that probably was wise for him that he he missed a lot of things but it also Had it also my mom had to then step up and take on a lot of roles so I don't know that I had good a good model for that growing up and then I Was a single mother for many many years and Then Robert and I got married and I had already been saved before we got married, but It I had always done things my way because it was always just me and then I Still struggle with submission and And I mess it up far more than I get it, right.

And I would say I'd give it my best but I don't know that I always give it my best it's it's a work in progress and I'm thankful for his Roberts grace, and I'm thankful for the Lord's grace. For how often I've just get it wrong.

Yeah, and I was just gonna say that considering whatever background like whether you're type a or you found yourself in a situation where you kind of had to handle things for a while and So you become accustomed to that?

I sometimes think to myself Like I'm glad I'm not the leader because it sounds like a lot of pressure you know it I Think but it because I think about it that way then that gives me the ability to be softer on him to give him more grace to again allow him to do his role because I can't imagine the responsibility of Having to be the leader, you know when you read in the Bible all the things that are Required of you as a man.

I don't think I could ever. And I obviously I know we have a gracious father. But yeah, I think that that also helps me to kind of put myself in his shoes and You know realize that that that he needs help, you know that that we each want to glorify God in our role.

One of the things that I heard everybody talk about being like a Behind-the-scenes thing and I don't know if Everybody feels the same way. I mean probably don't but I can tell you for me that No matter where we go no matter what capacity I'm ministering in I see my wife wherever I'm at and I find her and Knowing that she's there and knowing that I can as I'm preaching.

I'm just talking to her most of the time and and She's affirming with her presence if that makes any sense whatsoever at all because I Ain't by myself. I know the Lord is with me and I know that he's there every step of the way, but I'm also Even though I'm I'm a big bearded dude.

I'm also extremely terrified whenever I take the pulpit and And I know that if I say something That comes out of my mouth different than it went through my ears. I can look at her face and I was like what I say Just knowing that that We might visit a church where I'm preaching the gospel that is very gospel hardened or gospel ignorant or whatever Which doesn't happen very very often, but it has happened before and she's right there and Everybody in that building might be mad at me when I leave.

But but besides Christ the person that I care that thinks what they think about me the most is okay with me and I can walk out and Take one on the chin if I have to and it's okay and you can't do that Without help you can't do that without help.

It's not a background player. It's not a it's not a behind-the-scenes role Pivotal it is it. It may not be said as much as it should be said I guarantee it's probably not as much as it should be said, but that that helper role you can't do this by yourself.

It's impossible. That's right. And and you ain't got it. No, you ain't got a ride home with with all the rest of the people you're preaching to.

Yeah, how many of you guys ask on the way home. Hey, how did I do and you don't mean it in like a performance way? That's exactly what you're asking. Did it make sense? Said I preached the gospel. Was I clear?

Did you know. Because you know, she's gonna say. If it weren't truth, you know, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, our conversation about every Sunday coming home. And I just want to tag on to what Kelly said, you know, I even though we've been married 30 years I am and I'm still not perfected the submission aspect.

So I don't want anybody to think that I have. I'm not trying to represent that at all because it's a struggle. I mean, we're still faced as women with the cultural Pressures and the cultural messages every day bombarded with it and I work in a job that's very corporate.

America, which you know, obviously has some expectations for how women lead and it can be. Almost like you feel like you're stepping into one role from eight to five and a whole nother role. After five and it's a it's a challenge.

So it is not something I've perfected yet. But the Lord has been gracious enough to show me the blessings that come from Submission and when this flesh rises up and wants to be the boss and and and lead instead of being His helpmate the Holy Spirit does correct me and I'm thankful for that.

Living Out God-Given Gender Roles in a Confused Culture

Well, I think we just encapsulated three questions. Right there. So I guess moving on to a question number five. Living in a world that is confused about these gender roles as we've alluded to a couple times.

I read a really interesting book Earlier this year called the rise and triumph of the modern self trying to flesher. How did we get here? And it was very philosophically dense. But the concept that the author was trying to establish is that these their symptoms of a bigger issue.

That's many years in the making. And so as we have this this ideology that's sometimes very well constructed it seems very sound to a lot of people. How important is it to live out what God has said? In regards to the differences in gender.

I Don't know I'm trying to think of this as a pastor's wife, but I mean more like Because of what the Bible says I mean that there are two. I mean it seems so obvious to me like when I talk to my kids when I talk.

But I know the world at large like just turning on the television or just looking online. It's so.

Well, I had seen a meme this week that it it had two panels and one was rebellion in the 1970s and somebody was like Sleeveless shirt and tattoos out the yin-yang and piercings and all this and it's rebels in 2023.

It's a wife and kids. That's kind of where we are sometimes isn't it clown world? Yeah.

Everything's backwards. Yeah, I mean I definitely think The whole gender Transgender it's just more sin selfishness coveting, you know wanting what somebody else has. Like we mentioned before definitely the messaging that we receive through television and advertising.

So it's definitely important to look at Scripture and Realize that we are loved in our individual roles that there's a purpose for our individual roles. That we both have our strengths and our weaknesses which is why we need each other and there's nothing wrong with being different and being who God designed us to be and Knowing that he's all we need like he's the one that's going to satisfy Every need and that we don't have to feel pressured by what the culture society says especially knowing that it's a fallen world and just people are looking for something and.

Yeah, I Agree with what both of you said, you know, I think it's You know this again. It's the cultural pressures of You can be as good as any man at anything that they are as good at and I mean That's the message that is prevalent to our school girl age.

You know the children in schools, which there's nothing wrong with promoting strong women but it is something that I you know, I really value in our Complementarian perspective where we really God designed it this way for marriage to be between a man and a woman.

For they're very specific reasons that we complement one another where he is weak I am strong and where I am weak. He is strong and You know I don't want to leave this comp or leave this podcast to make everybody think we have the perfect marriage because we don't but we have a perfect God who works on perfecting us and Taking us to more More truth as to who we are in Christ and who he designed us to be and he made me a woman For a specific reason to complement my husband who is a man.

There are things he can do that. I can't do there are things he does that I wouldn't want to do and I'm sure it's The same for him. There are things that he would not want to do and you know the the gender roles as assigned by God if there's If we just follow God's plan, there's joy.

There's unity. There's peace and I don't want to make it sound like life is perfect because it is not but it is certainly Easier when we're following God's plan because he blesses that. And I appreciate you know, the women in my life that have been examples to me as far as what being a Godly wife looks like and being proud of being a godly woman looks like In all aspects of my life, but I'm even more thankful for the scriptures that even if I didn't have those godly women and sometimes, you know, those godly women are.

They're not necessarily Following scripture. It's their heart that they're following which is good in some cases. But scripture is the best way to know if you're doing things, right? And I appreciate the way that the Lord has designed our roles as a man and a woman in this union together It's pretty beautiful.

Where's that organ cloud? I think the answer to the question is in the question itself. They are God-given roles and therein lies the importance and the the need for those roles. I don't have any ability that's not given to me by the Lord and I Sure couldn't figure this life without that and So I'm thankful that the roles are there and they're there in scripture.

So I don't have to figure that part out. It's just right there and.

What else is there? Amen. Well, I can definitely relate to the the contentment component there not from a wife standpoint, but as a 20-something with autism. Because part of what that looks like for me is I'm gonna be 25 in a few months and I don't currently drive and You know, I've I've been told this I've been given this formula that you know.

You turn 16 and you you take your freedom and you grab life by the horns and that's just not where God has me. And at the end of the day, I have to be okay with that.

And anything else I've been waiting to use this drop. So if we go outside of God's design for marriage and gender roles, this is what happens. You all come on. That was the hatchet. Molly hatchet.

I'm saying Molly hatchet. She's got me. Oh You whippersnappers. They're older than me and it was not before my time.

But you're from North Carolina, you know about that music that's fact. So.

Complementarianism, Patriarchy, and the Limits of Heavy-Handed Authority

Before we I'm not looking at the list so Tyler forgive me if I'm jumping ahead, but I do have a question. I want to just. If that's okay, can I tack a question on to the to the last question because we asked about The understanding godly gender roles.

And and I know that I can imagine that. Many of us guys are probably More active and like Twitter and things like that seeing some of things you ladies maybe I don't know. I know Jennifer's not on Twitter.

So I may only be speaking for her but there there has been a huge Argument going on about you know, whether you know. We know egalitarianism is the idea that there is no distinction between the men and women role and then there's complementarianism which is what You guys just mentioned.

Claude, you know, you guys believe and we do as well but then there's this this more aggressive form the the patriarchy movement, which is is out there and and and. Have have you ladies experienced anything in your own churches where you have seen maybe a hyper?

Patriarchy where women are being mistreated and you've had to minister to that and I'm not saying I'm not. I'm not putting anybody on the spot and certainly don't want to be using names. But how do you deal with that with someone who is over?

You know, somebody mentioned earlier about guys who are heavy-handed. You know. Have you experienced that have you seen it because I see it I see a lot of people talking about it online. But I don't know if I'm I don't know if I'm seeing it in real life.

And so. And maybe this is just maybe I'm off base here. I just said I just is in my mind thinking about this. I.

Experienced that I'm growing up in the primitive Baptist. Some people think by the terminology primitive that you may have situations like that. But to my knowledge and experience No, all I ever saw was godly men loving their wives and honoring their wives.