Canadian Supreme Court

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line

The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence

Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed

Baptist Church This is a live program and we invite your participation if you'd like to talk with dr.

White call now at 602 973 4602 or toll -free across the

United States. It's 1 877 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 And now with today's topic here is

James white And welcome to the dividing line, you know It says webcasting all around the world and I'm not sure if rich had his tongue in his cheek when he first recorded that which

Was what about 1954 when we recorded that I'm trying to remember But You know, it's true

Everywhere I go. I was just in Dublin yesterday flew back home yesterday 31 hour day yesterday when you had the seven hours back, you know, so what

My arms are very tired. Yes. It was a very long lot of flapping but Every place

I go It doesn't matter whether it's there or Germany or Peru or Sydney London and Scotland Always people come out of the sand.

I listen to the dividing line all the time and I just it's amazing me I mean what what what is our our advertising budget for the for the for the year again?

Yeah that that's what I thought nothing zip zero nada We have no advertising budget.

We we are the world's worst Networkers and marketers and everything else and yet Man, this thing just gets we do have a budget.

Yes, it's called free Wherever free advertising is available. I go after it.

Oh, that's I don't actually I don't even think you do that No, no you see No, we don't

Facebook. Yeah, okay. I that's it. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, okay Anyway, it is worldwide.

There is no two ways about that Start off with This was a very quickly put together trip we were working with students at universities and students universities have other things to be doing and Trying to get them to make commitments ahead of time.

It's very very difficult and yet the opportunity very very much

Appreciated the first I flew over on I left Sunday afternoon

And arrived Monday morning in in Dublin wasn't really a it's not really that bad a trip.

I I find going out I find going east Much higher than going

West. I think most people do Because you lose the time seven hours going over you gain it coming back and But I don't know why but you know,

I just slept horribly that first night and Part of us because I'm in downtown

Dublin. I mean I'm staying literally in downtown Dublin. We're talking cobblestone streets and lots of pubs and I I was having trouble figuring out how to turn off the radiator thing because that's how you you

Warm the room. There's no such thing as an air conditioner, obviously You warm the room by these these hot water radiators and It was warmer than I wanted in my room

And so I had the window but it might have gotten up to 43 as a high while I was there It didn't rain has never rained.

I mean no actually I'll take that back I just realized there was a couple rainy days and I first went to Dublin two years ago

But anyway, so I have the window open Well, I discovered pretty quickly why they actually have two sets of windows in this hotel because first of all

Once the pubs let out heard some interesting behavior in the streets outside shall we say and Then once those folks stumbled home

You've got all these people making the deliveries and so trucks are going by and and You know the trash pickup and it was just you it didn't take long

So I had the outer windows closed and then found out why they had the inner windows in so that you could actually

Try to sleep but anyways got there on Monday had a chance to go over to Trinity and I bought

Clementine a a shirt that has Trinity College Dublin on it and then it says under undergraduate

It's for three to six month olds, so she'll never appreciate that obviously But I've discovered that when you're a grandparent you just buy clothes the grandkids for you.

It's not really for them It's for you because they they could care less at that age, you know, there's they throw up on it or do whatever

They don't it doesn't really matter to them very much. But anyway, so I had a chance to go over to to Trinity again and just sort of And also

I got a chance to go to the world's greatest Irish tweed shop.

Ah Don't even get me started on that it's right across the street from It's the

Kevin and Howland tweed shop in in Dublin, it's it's wonderful. So Anyways, I wandered around downtown

Dublin a little bit, but obviously I had work to do I needed to get my presentations put together for UCD and for Trinity and the first debate was in this

We had to drive to it. And so I just I do want to thank Joe Riley and his wife and Little daughter who went to both debates including little daughter

For picking me up at the airport taking me to the airport and driving me to UCD Joe has been our our

Dublin contact there and so if you enjoyed the debates then thank thank

Joe for for his hard work and fellowship in the defense of the gospel and so he picked me up on this would have been

Tuesday and we headed to UCD and Rush hour traffic in Dublin is not overly

Fun, but we managed to get there and it's in one of these Lecture theaters and you've you've seen them if you've watched the video you've already seen this man.

That lecture theater was steep I mean it was The the one in Trinity was much much easier to go up and down the stairs.

It was more natural So it made for a bigger room, but wow, it was really steep I'm just really surprised people don't fall down those things and break their necks almost weekly in in those places

But anyway, we we had a good debate on the subject of the

Bible of the Quran which way forward What's the answer to our problem? And I knew I you know, there'll be some people

I told him before debate even start I told him exactly where Adnan would go I knew where I'd go and I knew it was gonna be trying to undercut the

Bible and and then once you've tried to sow seeds of doubt into the into the text of the

Bible then you Then you promote the Quran You don't use of course the same standards

In attacking the Bible that you use in defending the Quran Because Islam could not survive that that's why there is no such thing as a consistent

Islamic apologist because You'd cease being a Islamic apologist if you became consistent.

That's the point. It's it's built into the system and I'll have to admit I can imagine some of you

Sit back and you watch those debates and you go Haven't you answered all of that a thousand times before and in a sense?

Yes, and in a sense, yes If I were a person given to Frustration in Having to repeat myself and I'm a human being so I am given to frustration having to repeat myself over and over and over again on a certain level, but I recognize that each one of these opportunities is

Another opportunity with another group of Muslims. I in general the vast majority of Muslims do not invest

The kind of time or effort in Listening to our side that we invest in listening to their side and Even Muslim apologists generally don't take don't bother to listen to this program listen to my reviews their debates listen to my debates against other

Muslims, they just they don't tend to do that at all and So as a result

When I had the opportunity to stand there and some of you that watched it

Ironically in both debates Almost the same question was asked in both debates by different people and it was very question.

I wanted asked the first night This guy at the very top of the of the theater

Asks about Jesus's statement Eloy Eloy Lama sabbath in a room and I remember last week or the week before I reviewed the

Outrageous statements of dr. Lawrence Brown Scholar extraordinaire

On the Dean show where he said the Jesus that the the New Testament ascribing those words Jesus blasphemous now in the process

He sort of like forgot to mention if he even knew That What Jesus is doing was quoting

Psalm 22 1 and he said it was blasphemous that the New Testament says it but he doesn't tell the people the whole story because it doesn't really know it and By the way, he's been responding to my emails and Has informed me that I'm a coward and and things like that.

Of course, he's the one who won't debate me But I'm I'm he can can judge my spirituality long -distance and that that I'm all bluster

But I'm but I'm a coward and I said, let me see if I understand this I'm the guy that was debating in the

East London mosque four days after Benghazi and you're the guy that will only make your Statements on the Dean show.

Okay. I got you. I I I see I see how this works Anyways, I have my challenge to Lawrence Brown stands.

He'll never take it up because he knows he absolutely knows He could never defend the things he says on the Dean show against any knowledgeable opponent he knows it and When you when

I know that, you know Then that means you're dishonest. You're you're deceptive. You're just making money off the

Muslims and it's just a disgusting thing. But anyways the vast majority of the Muslims Who attend these debates?

Have never heard an answer to that question They've heard people like Lawrence Brown call it blasphemy, but they've never heard a knowledgeable Christian explaining

What's going on when Jesus says Eloy Eloy Lama sabachthani so I get three minutes at the

UCD debate to basically preach that text Preach that text.

That's what I did. I explained what the background was and The messianic prophecies of Psalm 22 and I challenged all the

Muslims to read the 22nd Psalm listen to what is said there and all the fulfillments and all these things and Then to briefly explain the issue of the

Trinity and this is the father speaking to the son It's that son speaking of the father the father did not become flesh and you know I went through all that and as best you can in three minutes anyways so the next night we're at Trinity and I thought the

Trinity debate was a little bit better Adnan and I had had lunch together and only a few hours earlier and I think that sort of helped

The debate some to get to know each other a little bit better and Here again a

Muslim in the back most of Muslims were down front at Trinity but there were some that came in and sat in the back and Here's a young guy and he puts up his hand and he asks not the same question

That the first guy was going. How can Jesus? Say these things

How can Jesus make this kind of a statement? The second guy is just going who's

Jesus talking to? Who is it? Who is it Jesus talking to if you say he's

God then is this like a ventriloquist thing? So it's almost a Mormon level argument. And so I have the opportunity to go.

Hey You don't understand the doctrine of the Trinity and I lay it out for him.

And then I said, I'll tell you what You come down here after the debates over you give me your email address

I'll get in contact with you and I will send you a copy of the Forgotten Trinity and that's exactly what he did and That's exactly what we're gonna do and You just have to remember

That there are people who come to these things that this is the only one they may ever hear And so yeah,

I have to repeat the same things over and over again But you know what every time you present the gospel aren't you repeating the same things over and over again?

So, yeah, I'm I'm willing to do that and that's that's what we were we were doing.

Yes, sir I was gonna say last night. I got a chance finally to breathe and take at least take in I believe it was the

UCD Debate the have a bowtie on or my new really pretty blue tweed jacket.

I Don't recall. I was listening. I'm really watching. Sorry But anyway, this is really cool bowtie, too and I found that obviously, like you're saying the the odd nuns initial opening remarks were

Pretty much the same things we've heard before What I found unique is as you're looking up to the screen above you trying to get

I did see that part Trying to get that is set up. Was that you see that was you CD? Okay well, the screen is above me at both of the the fellow that videoed it panned back and caught that in and he

It's like We have the hundred verse memorization system for Mormons And it was like you're you're presenting the hundred verse or the verse memorization system

For Islam, it's just one verse after the other verse after the other verse after the other verse and to me that just had so much impact in Comparison to his opening remarks in his opening statement

Well in the one you were listening to did he go first or did I go for he went first? Okay, so you're watching the Trinity one. Okay, and it just I was going through mark

Yeah, the mark passages and you kept saying and no, we're still a mark. We're just a mark.

We're still a mark and I don't know if you When you're presenting this have a feeling of how much impact that has but for me

It was a huge enormous contrast. It was just pounding at home. Well, there's a

I You know, I've I've often wondered why it is that all of my opponents whatever

Perspective it is that they're defending Don't recognize that you are speaking to an audience.

Okay. Okay. You're in a debate. You only have a certain amount of time fine. I try sometimes

I fail sometimes I have a timer issue or I Designed the presentation for 25 minutes.

I get there and everyone got 20. Okay. I'm not perfect at it, but I Think I'm I'm not quite there yet, but I'm pushing a hundred and thirty debates down and If you do something that many times you better get better at it over time because you get worse over time you might want to stop doing that but What I try to do obviously is

Have a consistent Presentation have an opening have the argumentation and have a closing tie it up make it something memorable to the audience

So many of my opponents from Mormons to Jehovah's Witnesses to Roman Catholics to Muslims to atheists

They just start talking and when they run out of time Okay. Well Continue this on the other side or something like that.

And and it's it's just it's just like it's it just dies. Yeah The timing is vital.

The other thing that just occurred to me the the one thing that I'm I was left with about Adnan's Introduction was

Okay We believe the got well, we don't believe the Gospels, but we believe some parts of the got no

Paul. He's out He's right out. He's right. I know and and Like money pile on right out

There are particular things in the Gospels that are true as long as they look like they came from the

Quran or something like that but I'm not gonna tell you which ones they are right and I'm not gonna list any of them and But we got this triangle thing here and marks on top and right but we don't really well

You know and then you come in and okay, let's start with Mark boom verse 1 boom verse keep walking through the gospel

Yep. Yep, and that's what I said to people I said look I can sit here and I can go with these Gospels and I can start from the beginning and go through the end and I can give you a consistent interpretation of each one of these texts and I can do it on the basis the original languages and Basis the original context and I don't have to do what the liberals do and bring in these external

Contexts and do all the rest of stuff I can actually let it speak for itself. And the scary thing for you is

I can get with the Quran, too and It still amazes me

I think one of the most amazing Parts of the debates have done the Muslims is is the debate with the Psalms of Wadi where I was the one actually arguing

That you could interpret surah 5 in a consistent way and it was the Muslim saying we don't really know

I mean, we can't really tell and and You know, so on and so forth and it's it's it's an amazing amazing thing to observe.

So Anyway the first night The at the end the the student

Association that the Christian student Christian and Muslim Students Association got together and they got

Adnan and I a little box of Irish chocolates. Let me tell you something Those were some of the best chocolates

I have ever eaten I forget what they was it or I forget what the name of them were But they were their handmade

Irish chocolates and oh my goodness Those were good. And then the

Christian Student Union had it had set up a Reception afterwards and so I quickly packed my stuff up grabbed

Adnan and We got out of there because if we stand there no one's ever gonna go to the reception So we got out of there went to the reception.

I think we were in there for about an hour and I'm standing over there and I'm pretty much

I did have a couple conversations a lone fellow from Albania I think one other

Muslim, but they were brief and You know They just had a question and I answered the questions like oh

I never thought of that and I was it most of the rest of my conversations were with Christians listeners of the dividing line

Where these two wonderful young men who were studying there who are going back to Brazil They had not expected to do this, but they're going back to Brazil as missionaries and they wanted information on presuppositional apologetics to use in Brazil and I got a chance to pray with them and try to encourage them and it was just wonderful To get a chance to to talk with all these folks and and they want to take pictures a few people had some books

They wanted to have signed and so yeah, well pretty just a few feet away from me is a much louder conversation where Adnan has sat down and The pastor of the

Reformed Baptist Church he and him I mean, I don't think anybody else got to even talk to Adnan the entire hour and Adnan was very gracious.

He he sat there and he It didn't get mean or nasty or like that He just sat there and with a smile on his face and engaged in the conversation that's what we did for basically an hour until they've kicked us all out of the place in essence closing it closing it down and So we we had to had to get out of there but it was

It was a great debate. And again, I could just when

I see these young Muslims and They're listening this I can just tell they've never heard anything like this in their lives they've and and I'm telling you something.

I am Gonna be doubling down on finishing Sahih Muslim and then

I'm gonna do the Muwatta of Malik and Malik's Muwatta after that Because when you look at a

Muslim you say look not only have I read the Quran numerous times But I've read all of Sahih al -Bukhari

I've read Sahih Muslim I've read them when you start going through these things and you can narrate hadith to them

They're like What planet did you come from? I?

Mean they just don't encounter Christians that are going to invest that kind of time and effort

Into knowing their faith and this is something I talked with Adnan about it. You know, it seems like the most effort comes from our side and I can guarantee you one thing the most effort at being fair Without any question comes from our side because I'm reading some books and people who've spent a lot of time

Rummaging through sources whether they're actually Christian sources or not is another issue But I'm specifically referring to it's our al -haq the 1864 work and then the modern incarnation of it's our al -haq

And that's by Sami Ahmadi called a hunting for God's Word or the Word of God.

No other to anyway At least we try to be fair and very few of my

Muslim opponents seek to do that and I challenged Adnan on the fairness of and I'm gonna keep challenging him on it because he's quoting folks that he just shouldn't be quoting and People who listen carefully will hear that I stood up I said

There is not a single person that Adnan Rashid just quoted in his attacks on a

New Testament That would accept what Adnan Rashid said about the Quran about his historicity about you know

That it's not changed somehow somehow make everything right and historical There's not a one of those people that he quoted

That would back him up on his positive statements about Islam not a one of them

I Just caused someone who's on a diet and channel to Stumble by the reference to chocolate,

I'm sorry about that, but that's just the way it is anyway Not a one of them would do it and he never responded any of that he never just just had to let that stuff go because it's transparently true and So the one thing it was really unusual about these debates

Was the audience stuff which normally I'll be honest with you. They're like Do we really have to do this?

A lot of the audience stuff Really had much more value this time now when the

Christians asked questions I Think if you asked Almost any one of the

Christians who asked questions did Adnan Answer your question to your satisfaction they would have said no in Fact they they try to come back and say but that's not the question

I asked You know one of them asked how can Allah be personal if Allah is

Unitarian and in eternity past before he created there was No one for him to have relationship with how can he be personal and and I've non's answer just did not address it now

It's possible non just doesn't understand the question and not knowing not understanding the doctrine the trade doesn't seen its relevance but you know, he just you know

Didn't really answer the question I could tell that the person asking the question sort of like well, I was sort of disappointing

But there was a real contrast because I can guarantee you When the

Muslims asked me a question they got an answer It may not been what they were expecting but many a time.

It wasn't them coming back at me It was them sort of going. Oh and like for example

It's sort of like And I have Bart Ehrman actually queued up here if we get around to it And by the way, if you were there and I know it's what?

Getting into the evening over in the Dublin if you were there and you would like to Call in and comment on the debates or whatever else

We will we will take your phone calls 877 -753 -3341 not even 100 % certain

What what that number would be from from Dublin but And probably yeah the area code 602 973 -4602 it would be the number to call not the 800 number or the 877 number from over there.

Anyway, I Do want to comment on the Canadian Supreme Court decision before we get to calls too

But if you'd like to if like to comment or if you've watched the debates and you'd like comment on the debates that that'd be fine as well, but Just watching the

Muslims and one of the things that I did was Adnan During our cross our crossfire thing, which went really well.

This is the first time that Adnan and I had actually done crossfire I think now that we know each other

We can do it better Adnan is now in the list of Muslim apologists that I can have that I can trust to have a back and forth with and that he's not gonna

You know blow his stack or or dominate the conversation to where it's, you know, make it unfair things like that So so Adnan Shabir Ali Abdullah Kunda Basam Zawadi Abdullah Al -Andalusi

These are all folks that I can do meaningful cross -examination with and it's and they're gonna have enough respect for me and for the audience to To do that, right and that's that's a good that's a good a good thing anyway

So we were we were doing this and it's only for five minutes So it really wasn't a long period of time, but it was the free flow regular cross -examination type thing

You know, we can call it crossfire call normally crossfire is one person talking to other person talking This is more of a cross -examination because it was asking questions and and giving answers stuff that went really well

But at one point he's like so do you admit do you confess? And he specifically

I think made reference to the Percocet adultery in John's 753 311 well You know, there's a part of me.

It's a little frustrated by that people have known about that section for From the start and it's the earliest manuscripts is found in our 500 years after after the time of Christ and Every modern

Bible has a footnote in it and I don't know what let me see here.

I wonder what page Let's see here John Yeah, 753 811 192 and 328

I'm looking at the King James line controversy, so Yeah page 192 okay, the two largest

New Testament extra variants mark 16 9 through 20 and John 733 are addressed in part 2 so you go to part 2 and you will find an entire discussion of of this particular text and It's it's like what do you mean?

I do I admit I've written this book has been out since 1995 for crying out loud.

I wrote in 94 What do you mean admit The only meaningful way of Making that statement is to assume that the your audience that's in the audience

Has not read my stuff and so it's like ooh, I got him to admit something. Oh Yeah So I decided to go overboard

I said, all right Maybe you just won't do this again in the future because I did this

But he but he says so are you willing to admit right here and now? That John 753 through 811 is a major textual variant and not found near this man

I said, where's the camera? I knew where the camera was and so I sort of Didn't push him out of the side by we were sort of standing at an angle to each other behind the the podium

So I sort of took the center of the podium. I looked right at the camera and I said

John if I were preaching through the gospel of John, I would not preach John 753 through 811

I would explain to people is that it's a textual variant that the earliest manuscripts that come from are from 500 years after the time of Christ and that I do not believe it as a part of the canon of scripture and I would explain why that is and I have already done this in books that I've written that were published almost 20 years ago

So it's not a matter of admitting anything let's get past this I think he was sort of like whoa, okay didn't expect that and So I just I'm just like come on guys.

You got it. You got to step up the game here You know at least read the stuff that I've that I've done, you know and and realize that that that's

We've been talking about this stuff and you're not even engaged in the conversation And if you and if you're trying to get us just to admit there's a text we're very there how can you even understand the interaction that I've done with Bart Ehrman and here on the program playing the

Ehrman Wallace debates and going point by point by point and they're they're not even listening to that and they need to they need to if they're going to actually be making meaningful a commentary on this this particular this particular subject, so The questions from the audience this time were really in general quite good and With only a few exceptions and I'll be honest primarily on the

Christian side no one tried to just start preaching the Now I could tell the

Islamic questions are meant to be objections. It's it really wasn't somebody going Well, I really don't understand.

It was it was meant to be an objection. That's fine. I understand that but We really did have a good time of the of the question -and -answer

Period in in both debates and it actually added to the debates for once normally

That's really not how it works. But this time it it really did and I got to walk to the debate at Trinity because I was right across the street from Trinity's where my hotel was and Even though it was on the other side of the campus of Trinity.

It was it wasn't a short walk, but I got to to walk to it and so There wasn't any kind of basically,

I was told that it was pretty much just the Muslims that arranged the the the Trinity one that the The Christian groups just weren't really all that interested which is unfortunate but we still had about a 50 -50 turnout as far as Christians and Muslims went so it wasn't all that bad and the

Christians were all excited had great conversations with the with the Muslims that were there and just a wonderful wonderful opportunity and Interestingly enough my last two trips now, so well

Yeah, Charlotte and now Dublin and may I thank everyone who who gave to make this trip a possibility just Don't know how important these things are and what kind of eternal impact they can have

My contact at Southern Evangelical was a South African And we were talking about South Africa and the fact that there is a rather major Islamic Personage in South Africa that I would very much like to engage

I've done a couple YouTube videos on him. Not as many as as I could have it's just a matter of time or anything else but he's

Ahmed D dots successor there in South Africa and Yusuf Ismail is his name and and I expressed to My contact at Southern Evangelical seminary that I would very much like to debate him and Would in fact be willing to travel to South Africa to do that.

Well lo and behold talking with a non He'd like to do the same thing. He'd like to debate in South Africa against me

And of course we'd arranged debate I'd debate more than one person. It's a long ways to go but he's literally talking about later this year and so Keep an eye out because all of a sudden you may see a blog article saying with instead of One of Micah's instead of me frowning with my finger out hitchhiking to the the beautiful green mountains of Ireland We'll need to what does

South Africa look like I have no idea so we'll have to find some appropriate background image for Micah to Photoshop me into as we seek to raise funds to to go to South Africa and so we'll we'll we'll see but Anyhow, that would that would prove to be very very very very interesting and so This could be my biggest traveling year ever, which is not what we expected

I should have as many miles flown by June as I did all of last year because I will be teaching in Berlin in June I could be teaching textual criticism in Berlin in June for a week and then

Speaking at at a graduation there and things like that really looking forward to that opportunity as well.

And so I Something tells me I've got a good shot at going past my current

Preferred flyer status to the next level of preferred flyer status Which is basically the same thing as that Tom Hanks movie living in the airport

You sort of have to be there that much But it does give you more free upgrades

I guess if you if you do that because I I don't even know how you get to South South Africa from here

I mean my assumption is fly across the United States fly to London from London all the way to South Africa though That must be one

Incredible flight you wanna go with rich. I hear you really like like flying for 17 20 hours at a time.

Not really. Okay Huh? I don't either but evidently of the two of us.

I handle it a little bit better than you do so We'll be really looking looking at as a possibility. So once again something about the being in the tube or Extended period of time

I start getting a little stir -crazy Have to pace up and down the aisle. Let's do that.

Just sit here. Yeah, that's just in New York. Oh, please anything Anything in in the u .s.

For me anymore is a snoozer as I yeah, whatever I mean now the flight back yesterday from Philadelphia was long because I was

Against the window and there's a big guy in the middle seat and I was trying to type on my computer And so it's sort of like this type of a thing

But that could that can get a little boring but look after you've flown to Sydney or something like that It's it's no it's no big deal anyhow

That's my quick report on the doings in Dublin next week

Actually, the very not this not tomorrow obviously, but next weekend I'm going to be down in Tucson at Faith Community Church speaking there

Saturday night and and Sunday morning and then The next thing that's really public

I am I am gonna be in Southern, California The week after that, but it's more of just for a particular church same thing

I will actually be in New York City the week after that. But again, it's primarily just for a particular church the next thing on the calendar really that is public will be speaking in Honolulu, Hawaii on the 12th 13th and 14th of April getting a chance to go back to Visit with Pastor Shane who had hosted me and my wife last year there in Hawaii And if you see on the website he's

Sort of funny the the topics that are lined up here all branches of the same tree

So you've got same gospel same God same sex go back to previous

Same book and same questions. So Shane came up with same a

Number of times there, but there's one of those the one on Saturday on on homosexuality

I'm not sure that I could do that in in Canada, and I'm not sure how long

I'll be able to do that here in The United States to be perfectly honest with you Not without bringing the wrath of the governmental authorities down upon our heads

But before I go into that and then at the beginning of May you folks up in,

Omaha I'll be up there May 3rd 4th and 5th

I believe yep In Omaha, Nebraska, and I'm doing a bunch of northern stuff in May because then on the 17th 18th and I think

I actually come back on the 18th But I'm not sure how far the crop dusters could be able to fly because squirrel says the crop duster has to find gas stations to be able to you know you just bounce down the road fill it back up with petrol and Drone back again until we get to a big enough place as jet planes so I'm really not sure if I'm gonna be able to make make back by the 19th, but May 17th and 18th

Reformation, Montana, which will include a dialogue with Justin Lee the author of torn on the subject of homosexuality and Christianity and that will be in May and Then Boston on the 14th and 15th of June and then

Germany immediately after that and We go on from there. Oh and looking at we haven't absolutely nailed this down, but it's 90 % for those of you in Santa Fe July 8th through the 11th

I will be back with my good friends there in Santa Fe New Mexico as well, so lots and lots and lots and lots of stuff going on and I actually am scheduled into Canada in in October and I Not sure how that's gonna work be perfectly honest with you.

I just wonder how long that's gonna be That's gonna be available and you say what what am

I referring to I'm referring to a Supreme Court decision I'm reading this from Christian news .net

The Supreme Court of Canada and the date on this is yesterday, so this is brand -new

The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that biblical speech opposing homosexual behavior including in written form is essentially a hate crime

On Wednesday the court upheld the conviction of activist William Watcott or what cot

Not sure how you pronounce that who found himself in hot water after stripping flyers regarding the Bible's prohibitions against homosexuality throughout the

Saskatoon and Regina neighborhoods in 2001 in 2002 The Bible is clear homosexuality is an abomination one flyer stayed setting first Corinthians 6 9

The behavior in Canada's gay parades is no different than what happened thousands of years ago Whether it is ancient

Rome or Sodom and Gomorrah Scripture records the Sodom and Gomorrah was given over completely to homosexual perversion and as a result

Destroyed by God's wrath it continued Rome also crumbled and many scholars attribute its moral decadence and lack of discipline is playing a role in her demise

Another flyer was a printout of the classified section of a local publication in which what cot had handwritten atop

Saskatchewan's largest gay magazine allows ads for men seeking boys He had distributed the flyers to raise awareness of his concerns about both the homosexual parades in Canada as well as the vulnerability of children

In a culture that promotes homosexuality. However, when Canada's Human Rights Commission Oh, yes, those good leftist communists found out about the matter.

They took him to court citing him with a hate crime I agree that sexual orientation and sexual behavior can be differentiated for certain purposes the panel of judges wrote on Wednesday However in instances where hate speech is directed toward behavior in an effort to mask the true target the vulnerable group

This distinction should not serve to avoid the hate crime clause of the code

Courts have recognized a strong connection between sexual orientation and sexual conduct and where the conduct

Targeted by speech is a crucial aspect of the identity of a vulnerable group

Attacks on this conduct stand as proxy for attacks on the group itself it added now think about it those words are undifferentiated

From being applied to those who have sex with animals those who have sex with children those who have incestuous sex

They are all groups who claim That that aspect is a is that that behavior is a crucial aspect of the identity of a vulnerable group

Now of course Christians aren't a vulnerable group and of course I would say to these people

Who have come up with this idea? That speaking the truth about God's moral law is a part of the identity of the vulnerable

Christian group Which you just trampled on in? your rush to give homosexuals the uber rights that they demand and that is no one is allowed to say

My behavior is wrong silence them Silence them and that's exactly

What the? leftists in Canada Evidently are are succeeding in doing so I I Don't even know

It does not seem that I would have the freedom in the

Socialist Republic of Canada to Even comment on Certain biblical passages in an appropriate and contextual way how long will it be before government agents start?

Holding positions or standing positions inside churches. I like we used to hear about the

USSR Oh, it's not gonna the first people you see see the way that the homosexuals are doing it is they they go in because they are the victims and So they will go into churches just to see if they can hear something that would offend them and then on the basis of that File the the offensive file the the complaint that I was offended didn't have to be there

But since I was there then I was offended by what was said But isn't the next logical step to basically we must regulate and therefore set up a department to regulate and then

Think of lots of people in our government that would love to tax people to spend to set up another another department

One of the things that the folks in Germany have offered to do I'm gonna stay an extra day and They're going to take me over to the building that used to the complex of buildings that used to house the

East German secret police the Stasi and I watched a film on the

Stasi just recently and The the worship of the socialist scheme in that was

Striking Especially in light of how many people there are clearly in the West today Who are continuing to promote the very things the wall fell all that means is those people

Left there and went other places and they're still promoting the same type of statism And it's still just as opposed to Christianity as as it ever ever was

Obviously there's You know What does this what does this mean?

I don't know I actually However, the

Supreme Court of Canada declared Wednesday that oftentimes it is impossible to say that one loves the sinner and hates the sin

It asserted that the hatred of the act was inseparable from hating the person or person group while speech opposing homosexuality remains legal

United States some note that the nation is heading the same direction as Canada as Discrimination laws are being enforced by state human rights commissions across the country.

Well, yeah, we we well know exactly where things are going here It's gonna take a little more effort to get rid of the

First Amendment, but you folks you just need to understand All these these people on left who are talking about what we need to do it for the children.

This has all happened before One of the reasons that the the leftists have taken over the educational institutions is so you don't teach young people history

You don't teach young people How nations have been infected with this stuff in the past so they don't know the bigger the government the smaller the individual bigger the government the smaller the life of the individual and Yet so many in our society like oh,

I think I've got plenty of Liberty. I can give up a little bit more I can give a little bit more here and look

It wasn't just the isn't just the Democrats who should be called socialists because they are it's the

Republicans do It's just this idea of big government and see as Christians We have one really important insight into government government is a conglomeration of people and what are people they are sinners and that's why in the

United States of America when the nation was founded there were all these restraints on the government because well people actually believe something called total depravity and that when you concentrate a bunch of power in the hands of an

Individual or a group of individuals they're going to abuse that power They're gonna abuse it like I do is go look at the

East German secret police go look at the KGB Go look at what these people did and there are people who will put up With a small salary and a small place to live as long as they have power over others.

That's they'll do and yet it just seems that there's absolute blindness and Yeah, you know that First Amendment's are important, but you know it's not my

I'm not my rights You're being taken away. It's somebody else's. I'm not really concerned about that and It just goes on and on and you know the government keeps coming up with a crisis.

I mean, I mean, it's big crisis right now I'm sorry, but the facts are this sequester thing all it means is

Even with a sequester. We're still spending more money this year than last All it is is a is a slight slowdown in the growth of the national deficit, that's all it is and What what was but the one congresswoman say said yesterday that a hundred and seventy million people are gonna lose their job and there's only a hundred and fifty million people employed at the

United States it just like these are our leaders and There you go

There is a biblical principle that when you have unrighteous leaders It is a part of God's judgment upon your people and when you get leaders 170 million people who lose their jobs really

Wow That's just absolutely Amazing eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

I don't even know what to say evidently No one wants to talk about the

The the debates no one wants to talk about the debates, I guess they were just so clear and and compelling and actually the fact matter is that we don't have quite as large a

Live audience today for an obvious reason. It's not the normal day. We do it even though I did say

I Did say last week that if I felt up to it? we'd try to sneak a dividing line in on Friday and Lo and behold we have done so and don't have much time.

Let's go ahead and talk to Jeff in New York City. Hi Jeff Have riots broken out in New York City yet I actually

I've called you much in the past. It's been a while. I actually live near Philly I just got a job in New York. Oh, well, you just like to live in places with really lousy traffic

Well, yeah, I just take the Greyhound and go to sleep and wake up in the Port Authority Which is a lovely place to wake up in the morning.

What if you wake up someplace else sometime? What do you do then? I don't know. I'm away.

I have a subway pass Okay So I was really interested that you started touching on the

NT right stuff again I knew you're kind of based off your dividing lines kind of thrown into that and it was kind of interesting to me because I was studying that a lot in the past and then

I Kind of hadn't thought about in a while since until you you had the thing unbelievable, right and I had a quote because I haven't studied and keep right too much in depth, but I kind of in the past My questions with new perspective.

It's kind of very difficult because they start playing word definition games

Where it's like, oh justification doesn't mean that it means this and this doesn't mean this and that. Yep, and one of the way

I kind of Try to think about it was I try to take text and and plug their definitions in and try to read it and See if it makes sense based on the context and I was wondering what a

Key right if anything it does with the anticipated objection in Romans 6

Where if you if you plug his definitions in Romans 1 through 5, would you come up with So can we send all we want?

in Romans 6 wondering if he Addresses that well, you know the last thing

I listened to is right before I headed over to Dublin I listened to the dialogue that took place and If it hadn't been someone in my chat channel that actually already had it

I could not have tracked it down, but it was dialogue that took place at the Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society last

November With Tom Schreiner and another fellow those actually ended up being

Very useful his his participation was was very good too. And I apologize for just off the top of my head having forgotten his name but And actually

Romans 6 was Discussed I would have to direct you to that to hear what

Wright's response was because I I've only heard it once and it was in the midst of hours and hours of presentations

And so I wouldn't want to try to repeat it and I was just sent last night

Another series of things I need to listen to So I I would really hesitate to answer that I one of the things that was said

By both shrine Tom Schreiner and the other fellow was and a lot of people have said this and that is

Wright's position Is just too narrow his his demand to define

The Dickeye a word group as narrowly as he demands it to be defined

Just doesn't do justice to the New Testament and it's it's an issue that I certainly have raised in other contexts of people who will not allow the

New Testament fulfillment of Old Testament language to be bigger than anything that the New Testament the Old Testament could have possibly

Seen I mean, it's sort of like Adnan Rashid Quoted a

New Testament scholar that said that Matthew 28 19 20 has to be a later edition because no

Jew would ever say that Well what that's what that's meaning is that Jewish expectations for the

Messiah are the limitations as to how big or great? The Messiah could be and the same way.

It's sort of like Wright's saying my definition of the kaiosu nath a you

Since it comes straight out of the Hebrew law court limits the range of application in the

New Testament And I simply say well, I think you know the problem there is it's not the

Hebrew law court that Paul uses in Romans 8 That's sort of the background but he adds something much more to it in the intercessor in the the the the one who is the mediator and that's where the concept of justice and righteousness gets so much bigger and there's just so much it's much more multifaceted than he's allowing it to be and Shriner definitely brought that out.

So obviously you can read Shriner's article from from Jets and But the interaction part was was was very interesting

I mean right dominated it because Wright's just such a very good speaker you you know most scholars that can take right on are

Not nearly as confident in their proclamations in their speaking as as Tom Wright is so he's uh

He's a very difficult person to to debate not because he interrupts you or anything like that He's he's a gentleman, but he speaks with great pace and clarity and communication

You know that that's he's just a good speaker It's all there is to it and that can be very impressive to folks, especially if the people that are debating him

Aren't quite up to that level unfortunately, we're human beings and so we will allow that to impact our interpretation of things, but I'll be listening to those again and I'll pay special attention to that particular sections because that is a that is a good question to ask is

I think the spirit and his wisdom and So the anticipated objections in Romans 9 for predestination and for Romans 6 with justification

It's kind of like if I if my if my interpretation is Correct.

I should naturally flow into hey, what about why can't I've been all

I want right or Why does God still blame us and if your interpretation before that doesn't

Naturally flow into that question. I mean we get that all the time when we're just Presenting the gospel even for people who haven't read, you know

Yeah, but if it's just covenant covenant membership that really wouldn't lead to that Well, I suppose he would actually say well, you know

God has made the statement that you're part of the covenant people and therefore you don't have to worry about your behavior And he does emphasize that the behavior is very much a part of what we need to be concerned about But he gets that as he would say as he always says

I get there from another perspective I do know that that came up in the Romans 6 stuff. But hey, Jeff. Thank you for a phone call today

We're out of time on the program. I will definitely keep an eye out for that To try to be of assistance with that in the future.

Thanks for your phone call Thanks for listening to a special dividing line today wanted to Sneak it in certainly felt good enough after the trip back once again thanks to everyone who helped in making that trip available and Possibility and pray for those that heard the message that the

Lord would Reveal the Lord Jesus Christ to them and they might come to a saving faith in him should have a regular schedule this week

So Lord will it see on Tuesday? We need a new

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