2024 09 22 Apologetics RCC 3 Part 2

This will be our last one for Catholicism. I think we've covered some of the main topics that are very important when defending the faith against Catholicism. This one is on Mary. And I knew of this Presbyterian pastor.

And he would jokingly say, Mary is the fourth person of the Trinity. Well, I'll show you why, because how the Catholic Church considers Mary can be quite shocking, both in images and their doctrines. So, one book I used a lot was this book called Roman Catholicism by Lorraine Baitner.

I don't know if I'm saying it right, B-O-E-T-T-N-E-R. Maybe Baitner, Bootner, German. It's an old book. So, not everything's up to date. But really, for any formal doctrines, the last council was Vatican II, and that's contained here.

So, I think it is still helpful. And I have it, because I wanted to read a passage from it at the end. I'll pray for us, and then we'll get started. Father, we're grateful that you are good. Thank you that we can only experience your presence and love and salvation through Jesus Christ alone.

And Father, we're grateful that he is the most compassionate, human being that's ever walked this planet. And there's no one else who can even compare. Help us to go to him, nobody else. In Jesus' name, amen.

All right. So, this is the last one. And again, if you want any of the previous PowerPoint slides, please let me know. I will email it to you. These are not secret, hidden documents. They're all available to you.

So, Mary. Mariology has not been formally defined until 1854 and 1950. And the reason being, remember what I've said, the Catholic Church, their doctrines, it's like a tree, it grows and grows, and then you find out later more about something that they may never have really thought about or have not officially accepted as the Church's doctrine.

That's what happens. I will show you some of the artworks that you can see if you visit the Vatican City. Maybe you might have seen it too, right? As some of our congregants just came back from a trip.

So, Mary Fresco, this is, she's seated. She's actually standing, but seated next to her are Jesus and God the Father. And if you know any art, I'm not an art major, the one in the center gets more prominence, right?

And also the song Ave Maria, Hail Mary, that's a song dedicated to her. There are a lot of shrines dedicated to her. I will show you two artworks that you can find when you visit the Vatican City. So, here's the first one.

You can see this is Jesus, right, depiction of Jesus, and this is supposed to be God the Father. At the center of it is Mary. And that is, that's quite odd, if you ask me, because if you read scripture, at the center of it is Jesus.

At the center of it is God. Mary shows up a couple of times. You know, she is, she's an honorable lady in terms of how she responded to God's redemptive work. And we, you know, we don't condemn her. She is in heaven, just the soul, right?

She's also awaiting the resurrection of the body, just like the other saints. But if you read scripture, Mary is not the center. Yet this artwork would say otherwise, right? And I assume these are the apostles, right?

So, that's kind of odd. At the same level of the two of the, I guess, I guess that's the Holy Spirit. So, the Godhead, the triune Godhead is Mary, right? That's kind of shocking. Here's this. You might have remembered this.

This is like at the center of their, the room. This is Mary and there's Jesus who's just been crucified and killed. What stands out to you? Yeah, it's that this is not found in scripture. Mary never held Jesus' body.

Not only that, look at the size. Who's bigger? Yes. Yeah, right. The artist is trying to tell us something. There's someone that's much more important than our crucified Messiah, bigger. I mean, obviously, biologically, that's not even possible, right?

Mary wasn't a giantess, right? So, again, there's, even through artwork, you can see there are, there's some troubling, unsaid view of Mary, right? Again, pictures speak a thousand words and you can see that here.

In private Catholic lives, you would have been able to see a statue in the garden or a yard that's dedicated, devoted to Mary. Publicly, there would have been pilgrimages that people make to earn satisfaction, like think indulgences, right?

They're not buying indulgences, they're earning it, right, by visiting these big cathedrals. Some of the famous ones are Our Lady of Fatima. This is in Portugal in 1917. Allegedly, Mary appeared to three shepherds in Fatima, Portugal, and they have a huge devotion to Mary, even to this day.

They make pilgrimages there. People even witnessed the sun dancing in the sky, apparently, and apparently, there were miraculous cures. My job is not to argue these things didn't happen or not. Who knows, but my job here is to say that there's a huge focus on Mary, even to this day, because of these alleged events, right?

And they feel it, really. Same thing, here's some sort of miraculous thing. A mysterious woman who called herself the Immaculate Conception showed up to a teenage girl in 1858, and then what's odd is in 1854, Pope Pius IX pushed the doctrine of Immaculate Conception, so it's like, again, that is kind of odd that a teenage girl would claim that, too.

Either way, of the 19th century and the 20th century, a heavy focus on Mary developed, and a lot of focus on miraculous or supposed appearances of Mary, and extremely hard is to prove that, and extremely hard is to prove that if something did show up that it was actually Mary.

Like, how can you prove that if angels, if demons show up as angels of light? So how can you discern that, right? After all, a lot of false religions started because of an angelic visitation. Right? The reason why I can confidently say this is false is because nowhere in scripture do dead people who are not resurrected show up without witchcraft, right?

The one of the few examples would be when Samuel shows up because of the necromancer, right? So either way, the context is not good. This is the Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the prayer. It's one of the rosary prayers, right?

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen.

That's the prayer that they pray. Hail Mary is one of the most famous prayers that they pray. I've highlighted in green what you could actually see in scripture. Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.

Blessed are you among women, and that's what the angel announced, right? Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. The angel announced that. So that's from Luke 1, right? So that's not too problematic.

It's the red portion that is not from scripture and treats Mary more than as just a human being, right? So let's go over the meaning. Hail Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.

This comes from the church council in church history, the term theotokos. That's a Greek word for God-bearer. And this was formulated in council at Ephesus and then confirmed in Chalcedon, 431, 451, respectively.

We have to remember why these councils occurred. It was not for the doctrine of Mary. So when it says God-bearer, the emphasis originally was the fact that Jesus is God from conception. The moment Jesus became an incarnate single self being on earth, he was God.

He never became God, he was God. That's the point of the word God-bearer or Mother of God, theotokos, right? That was the point. These early Christians were concerned with the deity of Christ. And it makes sense because they just followed the Council of Nicaea which had to nail in place that Jesus is of the same essence as God the Father.

He's not a lesser God, he's not a human that's superb, he is fully God, right? So the Council of Ephesus in Chalcedon, their goal was Jesus has been God. He didn't just become God at baptism or birth.

No, he's been God and Mary was the vessel really to carry the Messiah. And it's always been the case that Mary was the earthly mother, right? She wasn't some sort of being who brings divinity to Christ, right?

So that's the historical meaning to Mother of God or God-bearer. However, how the Catholics use it in this context is not that. It's all of a sudden the Catholics use it to have for Mary to have an intercessory role, right?

So the problem is that Mary intercedes for us because she's the mother of God, right? And all of a sudden it's as if God needs a mother figure to tell his son, her son, right, what to do, right? Kind of like treating Jesus as less than, right?

It's kind of like, I mean, hopefully our adult moms here, moms of adult children don't really tell their kids what to do anymore, right? Because they're grown up and yeah, they're white. They're usually independent, right?

That's the goal, right? But for some reason, Jesus needs his mother to tell him what to answer in prayer, right? That's crazy. According to scripture, who intercedes on behalf of the church or Christians?

Christians. Yeah, one is Christ and the other is Holy Spirit, right? In fact, I'm gonna turn to 1 Timothy 2 .5 and read it out for us, because there's like no, you can't get clearer than that. For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Jesus, Christ Jesus.

Oh, okay, so how many mediators are there? One, okay. So if we add Mary, that would make it, yeah, so that doesn't work. That would directly go against the Bible, right? Not only that, Hebrews 9 .15 also calls Jesus the mediator on our behalf.

9 .15, and for this reason, he is the mediator of the new covenant by means of death for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

There's only one mediator for the covenant to end, that's Jesus Christ. And Romans 8 .26, the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. There's no problem with that, because the Holy Spirit is divine. There's no question about that, right?

So for God to hear our prayer, only God can intercede. That's important. God does not need another human to intercede for us, because in order for you to get to God, have access to God, you need God. That's it, not another human, not another angel, not another prophet.

In order to get to God, you need God, and scripture makes that clear. Yep, yeah, they would actually say, what about John 2? Like the wedding feast, right? It's like, so their hermeneutics is so wrong that they're using that as to, this is how Mary intercedes.

First of all, when you read John 2, Jesus actually questions Mary, like what does this have to do with me, woman, right? Not that Jesus is being rude, it's just that the point is, it's not his wedding to provide the wine.

And what that means is he's thinking about his own wedding. What does he need to do in order to provide celebration for his wedding, which is with the church? And he knows it has to be through the death on the cross.

Yet, Jesus graciously provides for not his wedding, someone else's wedding, because that's who he is, God who provides. But it's not because Mary asked, it's because Jesus is gracious. But the first response seemed like Jesus wasn't going to do it, and it wasn't even his job to begin with.

He wasn't the bridegroom for that wedding. The culture was that the bridegroom had the job to provide for the wedding to continue. Now let's go over the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception. The Immaculate Conception was declared in a papal encyclical which is a papal document in 1854.

What that means is it becomes the doctrine of the church. Mary's conception, they would argue, that Mary was born without original sin and she lived a sinless life. Now, what is the problem with that?

Yeah, well, sin gets passed on, doesn't it? Well, if sin gets passed on, and the only person who's born without sin is Jesus Christ because of the work of the Holy Spirit, not a man, not a human man. So if Jesus Christ is the only one born without sin because he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, then you have to question, how was Mary conceived?

If she also wasn't born with original sin, was she also conceived of the Holy Spirit too, right? There's no record of that. And then you have to keep questioning, what about her parents? Obviously, they can't pass down original sin either.

So is there a sinless line? Right, nowhere in scripture do we get that. Another thing is, what does this mean about Mary if she is actually sinless and remains so? What can we infer about that? Yeah, right, it's like, why couldn't she redeem the world?

Right, if she's the sinless one, there's another option here, God. When Jesus prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, take this cup of judgment, right, away from me, but not my will, but thy will be done, right?

If there's no other way. Well, there was another way if Mary had been sinless. God the Father could have told the Son, there's another person who can be on the cross for you. You don't have to do it. Why not?

Yeah, why do we need Jesus if, right? So because of that, disputed is in the Roman Catholic churches that maybe Mary's a co-redemptrix. It's just blasphemous to even say that. But you can see the logical reasoning behind that, right?

That you can see why a lot of the Roman Catholics could believe that Mary is a co-redemptrix if she is sinless. Why not, right? There's one Catholic doctor who would agree with us and this is Thomas Aquinas.

Thomas Aquinas is actually a famous theologian in the church. Very logical man and if you study philosophy, Thomas Aquinas is one of the main ones you will study, even if you're not a Christian. His mind was so brilliant, although he never performed any miracles after death, that's the process of the canonization to become a Catholic saint.

The Pope said, every word that came out of Catholic, not Catholic, Thomas Aquinas was a miracle. So that's how much they regard Thomas Aquinas, right? Medieval theologian. He disagreed with Mary's sinlessness.

In fact, he quotes scripture. How refreshing is that? Magnificat, Mary's own word when she sings about the fact that God is going to deliver his people, because she knows now that the Messiah will be born through her.

My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit has rejoiced in my God, my Savior. Which part shows that Mary was a sinner, precisely? What is she gonna be saved from, if not sin? That's Thomas Aquinas' argument.

Obviously, she needed a Savior if she's gonna call God her Savior. The Catholics have other arguments for that, which is, I think it's shoddy, which is, well, she's being saved from something else. But it's just like, in the context of the gospel, according to Luke, the main reason why Christ came is sin.

Any of the gospels were the matter. So, yeah, we're standing with the giants of the past, even Thomas Aquinas. Now, I did that to make the reference. God, my Savior, right? All right. 1950, we get to this.

I munificentesimus Deus, that's Latin. The most bountiful God. And in it, Pope Pius XII, different guy from the ninth, he says, the doctrine of the bodily assumption of marrying to heaven. What that means is, there are two people in heaven who has a physical body.

And it's Mary and Jesus. Physical, resurrected body. That is alarming, right? Because the Christian doctrine is, until Christ comes back and calls those who have been asleep dead to rise up from the grave, we're all waiting for our souls to reunite with the body.

Nowhere in scripture does it say that Mary was resurrected or her body became glorified. In fact, scripture doesn't really focus on Mary. Mary doesn't really show up in the Acts of the Apostles. She doesn't have a role.

So this, I don't know where this pope got that, but it's a troubling thing. She's becoming more and more like her son, right? And then we get to Ad Caeli Reginam, which the title Queen of Heaven gets used, and it's an encyclical in 1954.

The feast queenship of Mary, which means Mary reigns as Queen of Heaven alongside her son, Jesus. When we place Mary in a ruling role alongside Jesus, who's getting the spotlight? Mary, right? And I'll go over more Catholic writings that do that, unfortunately.

But the point of Jesus ruling in heaven is precisely because he's unique. He's one and only. There's no one like him. But if you say that Mary's the Queen of Heaven, you kind of take the spotlight away from God, right?

Unfortunately, too, this title Queen of Heaven's only used in the Bible for idolatry. Yeah, I know. The Bible actually has the title. So I don't know why this pope decided to use the title Queen of Heaven, because when you turn to Jeremiah 7, 18, here's what it says.

The children gather wood, the fathers kindle the fire, the women knead dough to make cakes for the Queen of Heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods that they may provoke me to anger. Man, so when Judah made offerings to a figure called the Queen of Heaven, God got angry, right?

I'm not saying the Queen of Heaven, whatever they sacrificed to is the same as Mary, but why would you even want to use the same title, right? It's just like, oh yeah, I'm going to name my son Satan. You know, it's just like there is a name for that, right?

That name's used elsewhere, and it's not a good connotation whatsoever, right? Queen of Heaven is not used well in the Bible. Mentioned again, Jeremiah 44, 17 through 19. But we will certainly do whatever has gone out of our own mouth to burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and pour out drink offerings to her.

As we have done, we and our fathers, our kings and our princes, in the cities of Judah, in the streets of Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, were well off, and saw no trouble. Their argument for why they're suffering is, ah, we've been just too lazy with offering to the Queen of Heaven.

So they're like, let's go back to idolatry. Maybe that's why we're suffering. Yikes, right? That's very problematic, mainly because nowhere in the Bible do we see that there's a queen. In fact, we have a king in heaven, and that's Christ, right?

We don't have a queen in heaven. Yeah, the fact that they believe that Mary is ruling beside Jesus is a troubling thing, as if Jesus can't rule by himself. Here's this one. In 1943, Pope Pius XII wrote, Mystici Corporis Christi, The Mystical Body of Christ, and he talks about Virgin Mary.

May the virgin mother of God hear the prayers of our paternal heart, which are yours also, and obtain for all a true love of the church. She whose sinless soul was filled with the divine spirit of Jesus Christ above all other created souls.

Right? The question is, can Mary truly hear the prayers of millions of saints? No, because omniscience is a trait that is incommunicable, which means it cannot be given to us. Omniscience is solely a divine trait.

What that means is, out of nearly a billion Catholics out there, and many millions who are praying to Mary even right now as we speak, well, if Mary indeed does hear the prayer, she's hearing one. Sorry for 999 ,999 of you.

Right? Just as I can only hear one person talking to me at a time, even then sometimes I have hard time focusing. Right? So, this is important. If this pope is claiming that Mary can hear anyone's prayer, that's even a big jump, because we don't see that in the Bible that dead saints hear prayers that we pray.

How can she hear the church's prayer, multiple people's prayer? And the answer is, she can't. Unless you have to elevate her to a level that she's not supposed to be in, the divine status. Right? Did you have a question, Wayne?

Yeah, they use, they say in Greek, there was no term for cousin. So, it's brothers of Jesus, it's actually cousins of Jesus. The problem is actually Paul does use a term for cousin. I wanna say, I gotta look, I think it's, if I can't find it, I think it was like Colossians 4.

If I can't find it, I'll let you know next week. There was a word for cousin. Here, 410, Aristarchus, my fellow prisoner, greet you with Mark, the cousin of Barnabas. So, there is a word for cousin, and if you check the Greek text, it's not Adelphos, which is brother.

It's another word that doesn't, it's a different word. So, let's not pretend that the ancient Greeks were so behind that they couldn't find a word to describe your mother's sister or brother, or father's sister, or brother's offspring, right?

Let's not go there, right? Linguistically, it's false. Scripturally, there is a word that's used for cousin. So, it's, I think it's just wrong, and I feel bad for James. James does say, I'm brother of Jesus.

It's like, that's what he claims, and we believe that, it's in the Bible. Now, next, same document here. It was she, the second Eve, who free from all sin, original or personal, and always most intimately united with her son, offered him on Golgotha to the eternal father for all the children of Adam.

Offered? Right, that's a very cultic word to use, especially in the context of Christ offering himself. So, it's odd that Mary is used in this case, when she didn't really have much to do with it, and this has a huge theological implication, as if Mary was a priestess.

She wasn't, and to call her second Eve is also bizarre, if Jesus is the second Adam. That's a bizarre relationship for mother and son. Right? There is a second Adam, that's Christ, who obeys God, perfectly unlike the first Adam, and dies so that we may live, which the first Adam, he tried to, he disobeyed God so that we died.

That's it, right? It's the opposite, the reversal happens with the second Adam, Jesus Christ. But to call Mary the second Eve is, unscriptural, in fact, the bride of Christ is the church, right, it's the people of God.

So, this is also a bizarre statement from the Pope, and of course, accepted as their doctrine, because of papal infallibility, right, from last week. Same document. She, it was, who through her powerful prayers obtained that the spirit of our divine Redeemer already given on the cross should be bestowed, accompanied by miraculous gifts on the newly founded church at Pentecost.

Okay, so according to scripture, who actually sent the spirit? Jesus and the Father. According to this text, the Catholic text, who sent the spirit? Do you see why that Presbyterian pastor whom I talked to, he jokingly did say Mary is the fourth person of the Trinity.

It's like, she's doing something that only God has done. And, right, Father sent the spirit, John 14, 26, we went over that last week, and Jesus sent the spirit, John 16, 7. But, according to this Pope, Pius XII, it was her prayers that instigated.

Right, so that is really bizarre. Next. May she never cease to beg from him that copious streams of grace may flow from its exalted head into all the members of the mystical body. Okay, so how does that frame Jesus Christ?

If she never, if she has to beg that copious streams of grace may flow from him, what does that tell us about Jesus? Right, you're telling me Jesus' compassion has to be coerced by another human being?

Could anyone be more compassionate than God himself? That's a troubling thought. Even we wouldn't say that Jesus coerces the Father to pour out his grace because the Father and Son had agreed in the eternity past.

That the hope of eternal life, right, from Titus, would be given to his people, to the believers. So you're telling me that Mary has to do this? Mary has to continue begging? That's a troubling thought in multiple ways because it questions God's character of mercy, which is his divine character and has been.

And not only that, then it also elevates Mary as if she's higher than God. Mary's more compassionate than God? I would not even say any one of us begs for, right, for mercy for another being, right? God's mercy and grace flow naturally because that's who he is.

Now that's just the papal encyclicals. Now we're gonna go over a famous book on Mary by Bishop Alfonso de Liguori. And it's one of the more famous Catholic devotionals for Mary. In fact, the editor's note says it's a summary of Catholic tradition.

So it's like, it has this good rubber stamp here. And a bishop wrote it. So it's not like some unknown priest wrote it. A bishop wrote it. He's high up there. One may say the prince of the Catholic Church, right?

Bishops are princes. This is the first one. Mary is called the gate of heaven because no one can enter that blessed kingdom without passing through her. Oh, does that sound familiar? Right? John 10, if we all turn to that.

Because someone else called himself the gate too, that no one else, right? John 10, one. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs up some other way, the same is a thief.

And Jesus says in verse seven, then Jesus said to you again, Jesus said to them again, most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. Okay, so who, if, who's the door? Jesus, right? If you wanna get to the sheep, you gotta go through Jesus.

John 14, six, right? I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one gets to the Father except through me. That's John 14, six. Well, but according to this devotional, the way of salvation is open to none otherwise than through Mary, right?

Do you see how Mary starts to chip away at Jesus' superiority and prominence, right? Jesus claims that he's the only way to God, the Father, but all of a sudden, we have to go through Mary too, right?

Oh, yes. Yeah, I would say it, like, it tries to replace God. Oh, in various ways, either compassion, mediatory role, salvation, even, right? That's what we just saw. So it is, that's, that's just troubling.

It's, I think it's both God, bring God down, but bring Mary up. Next, on authority. Many things are asked from God and are not granted. They are asked from Mary and are obtained. Oh, wow, right? It's just, if we listen to that, it's, it's troubling, right?

Who is actually more accessible here? Mary, right? More, it's more so, she is even queen of hell and sovereign mistress of the devils. I don't even know if you wanna be called a royalty of hell in any form, but, I mean, it's just trying to say that Mary's authority goes beyond heaven, right?

Which is troubling because the Bible only speaks of Jesus' authority going beyond heaven, right? Ephesians 121, far above all principality and power and might and dominion. And every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come.

There, Jesus' authority is not limited by space nor time, right? But here, we seem to be giving more authority to Mary. And then we have advocacy. Mary is also the advocate of the whole human race, for she can do what she wills with God.

That's troubling because in 1 John, that is, when you turn to 1 John, you won't see Mary's name. 1 John 2, verse one. My little children, these things I write to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous, right?

If you sin, you have someone who will prove that your sin has been paid, right? And he himself is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. Oh, okay, it's right there.

But it seems like this Bishop Alfonso de Liguori took what the Bible talked about Jesus and then plugged in Mary's name. Again, I do believe Mary's in heaven, but if we say more about Mary than she is and can do, we are deifying her.

And it's not Mary's fault, right? I would say leave the poor woman alone, right? She's worshiping Christ. She's busy enjoying Christ's presence. She doesn't have time for your prayer, nor the capacity to hear him.

Next, compassion again. If God is angry with the sinner and Mary takes him under her protection, she withholds the avenging arm of her son and saves him. Oh, I don't know about you, but it's just like, Mary's the good parent, right?

Mary's the kind one. And then you go, it's like, mom, save me, right? Mom, help me. Dad's angry, right? It's that picture. First of all, for anyone who's in Christ, there's no avenging arm of her son.

That's been paid for on the cross. Oh, immaculate Mary, prevent thy beloved son who is irritated by our sins from abandoning us to the power of the devil. Oh man, it just, Jesus gets irritated by his people?

That's nowhere in scripture. In fact, right, if you read the book, Gentle and Lowly, it's just, it's all bought, right? Dane Ortlund wrote a great book, it's called Gentle and Lowly, Jesus' heart towards sinners and those who are wounded.

And it's that you get to go to Jesus because you are a sinner, you need him. And that's why when Jesus says, come all ye who are weary and tired, exhausted, for my heart is gentle and lowly, it's lowly and humble.

He won't cast away anyone who comes to him. That's what that means. But here we get the son getting irritated. But it has to be Mary who steps in to make it right. And really, I mean, can anyone be more compassionate than God himself?

And the answer is, of course not, right? I got a new bumper sticker, it's from John six. And the beautiful thing is, 37, all that the father gives me will come to me. So if you go to Jesus, you belong to him.

And the one who comes to me, I will by no means cast out. So I don't see any irritation there. I don't see any sense of abandonment there. In fact, if Jesus were to abandon any of the sinners who came to him, would make him a liar, right?

Any sinner who goes to Christ for mercy will receive it because he is the uttermost, most merciful, compassionate being there is. He does not need anyone to coerce him to show mercy. Next one, the great name.

The whole trinity, O Mary, gave thee a name above every other name, that at thy name every knee should bow, of things in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. Again, if you know your Bible well, this seems very much like a paraphrase of Philippians, right, Philippians two, nine through 10.

Therefore, God also has highly exalted him, notice it's not her, and given him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven and of those on earth and of those under the earth.

Nearly verbatim here, except they have just substituted Mary instead of Jesus. And we have to ask this question because if you tell the Catholics what you're doing with Mary, it seems like it's a form of worship, and they'll deny it.

No, no, no, no, it's respect, it's veneration. But if you consider these documents, Catholic documents, some of which are papal decrees, which means they are, if you don't agree with them, you are committing a mortal sin if you're Catholic.

Can this be just veneration of Mary, right? If you consider all of this, is Mary just being respected for faithfully carrying Jesus to term and raising him up? Or is she someone more than that? And in our case, a lot of these, she actually not only shares the spotlight but rather takes the spotlight.

Well, she doesn't, the Catholic church makes her do it, right? That's the troubling part. And with that, I wanna read this. This is like a dialogue that a former Catholic has with a bishop in Montreal, Canada.

His name is Charles Chiniquoy. I don't know if I'm saying it right, but this is what he says. So he approaches the bishop and says, my Lord, who has saved you and me upon the cross? He answered, Jesus Christ.

And who paid your debt and mine by shedding his blood? Was it Mary or Jesus? He said, Jesus Christ. Now, my Lord, when Jesus and Mary were on earth, who loved the sinner more? Was it Mary or Jesus? Again, he answered that it was Jesus.

Did any sinner come to Mary on earth to be saved? No. Do you remember that any sinner has gone to Jesus to be saved? Yes, many. Have they been rebuked? Never. Do you remember that Jesus said to sinners, come to Mary and she will save you?

No, he said. Do you remember that Jesus has said to poor sinners, come to me? Yes, he has said it. Has he ever retracted those words? No. And who was then the more powerful to save sinners, I asked. Oh, it was Jesus.

Now, my Lord, since Jesus and Mary are in heaven, can you show me in the scriptures that Jesus has lost anything of his desire and power to save sinners? Or that he has delegated this power to Mary? The bishop answered, no.

Then, my Lord, I asked, why do we not go to him and to him alone? Why do we invite poor sinners to come to Mary when by your own confession, she is nothing compared with Jesus in power, in mercy, in love, and in compassion for the sinner?

To that, the bishop could give no answer. This is from 50 Years in the Church of Rome, page 262. I mean, powerful dialogue. For true followers of Christ, my exhortation to you is, only follow Christ. He is the only way.

And his mercy cannot be even compared to anyone. Even the kindest person who's ever lived would be a tyrant and compared to Christ's compassionate heart. Let us pray. Father, we're grateful that Jesus alone is sufficient and more than sufficient to save us from our sin.

And not only after salvation, but all throughout our life, in the process of sanctification, when there are trials and temptations, that Jesus alone is compassionate and capable of delivering us. Help us to focus on no one else but Christ.

In his name we pray, amen.