August 14, 2017 Show with Joseph LoSardo on “A Local Church’s Mission to Rescue Unborn Children from Infanticide”

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Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

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Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Monday on this 14th day of August 2017 and I am so delighted to have back on the program an old friend of mine who hasn't been on Iron Sharpens Iron radio for quite some time.

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His name is Dr. Joseph Losardo and he's a former elder in a very large charismatic messianic congregation in New Jersey who earned his

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PhD in molecular biology of cancer at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the

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Bronx, New York, where he remained as a researcher until answering the call to ministry and planting a

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Reformed Baptist congregation known as Bread of Life Fellowship of Wayne, New Jersey and today

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Dr. Losardo is going to be addressing with us a local church's mission to rescue unborn children from infanticide and it's my honor and privilege to welcome back to Iron Sharpens Iron radio

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Dr. Joseph Losardo. It's great to have you on the program again, Joe. Oh, it's great to be here,

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Chris. It's been too long and it's good to be back. Yes, it's been much too long and in studio with me is my co -host the

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Reverend Buzz Taylor. Hello, it's good to be here again. And I'm going to give our listeners our email address right away in the event that they have any questions for Dr.

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Joe Losardo. It is chrisarnzen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

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Please give us at least your first name, your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA and please only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter.

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I can see this topic easily lending itself to people having personal and private questions such as those perhaps who are considering having an abortion or those who have already had an abortion or more than one abortions and are totally riddled with guilt over it or there could be a host of issues that are involved in this.

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Perhaps your church is involved in a pro -life outreach and you have to remain silent for the time being about it publicly because of the fact that you are being sued or something like that.

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We understand that those would be reasons to remain anonymous but if it's not a personal and private matter please give us at least your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Well first of all Joe before we even get into the main subject at hand

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I want you to tell our listeners something about your own personal conversion to Christ, the religion of your youth if any and what circumstances our

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Lord providentially brought about in your life that drew you to himself and then how you went from being an elder in a very prominent charismatic messianic congregation in New Jersey to becoming a

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Reformed Baptist which is quite a leap and then planting the

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Bread of Life Fellowship of Wayne, New Jersey. So start off with a summary if you could of your testimony of salvation.

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Sure sure I'd love to Chris. Well I was raised a nominal Catholic in an

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Italian American home in New York and we went to church pretty much twice a year.

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Religion was not really an important part of my upbringing. After I got out of college my brother shared the gospel with me.

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He had received the Lord while I was away at college.

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Is this Chris? Yes that's Chris, yes yes. He's two years younger and I saw the change in his life.

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I saw the reality of what Christ had done in his life and he shared me and the

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Lord worked on my heart, showed me my need for him, for repentance and faith and I didn't know it at the time but I responded to an alter call but that was

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I didn't know that God was doing the work and drawing me but he used that at a local charismatic

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Pentecostal church and I started to grow there.

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It wasn't a wild crazy church you know they had a good sound teacher who taught the word, went through the word systematically, preached the word.

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I grew in that church and then when I graduated from graduate school after I got out of grad, after I finished my

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PhD, I started working at the

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Hoffman LaRoche which is a pharmaceutical company in New Jersey. Needing to move to New Jersey, I started looking for a congregation here and started attending a large

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Messianic congregation that had a radio ministry. I had learned about church through the radio ministry and ended up joining that church and was called into ministry in that church.

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It was a Messianic congregation, the pastor is Jewish, a portion of the congregation is

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Jewish and kind of focused on some of the aspects of Messianic Judaism you know some of the

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Jewish traditions and things like that. And the pastor who is still there to my knowledge is a published author and has even been interviewed on major television networks involving his published works.

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Yes, exactly. This all happened after I left.

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At that time that was not the case. This goes back about 1993 -94, somewhere around there.

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Yeah, they had a program on the station that I worked for back then, WMCA and WWDJ. Yes, exactly.

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So, the Lord certainly used that in my life. I learned a tremendous amount just being on the job about ministry and learned from mistakes as well.

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Also, thankful that I met my wife there as well.

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And shortly, let's see, around 2000, right, 1999 -2000,

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I was starting to see things in the Scripture that I was not seeing taught in the church.

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I started to see particularly issues of God's sovereign grace.

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One day I read Ephesians. It's funny, I was on a little bit of a break, a sabbatical from my ministry, and I was studying

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Ephesians chapter 1, and I read it, and it was like I read it for the first time.

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I sat back and said, what did I believe about this test for all my life as a

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Christian? It was like my eyes were opened to the meaning of God's electing grace and what it means to be called to the foundation of the world.

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So, having that, having God opened up my eyes through the dark, at that time I realized that the church that I was in and the teaching of God's sovereign grace were kind of different, but yet at the same time

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I didn't necessarily want to leave for that reason.

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But there were a lot of other things too, a lot of different reasons for our leaving that congregation, and that's when we planted

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Bread of Life Fellowship in 2003. Now, can you tell us how you became introduced to the doctrines of sovereign grace?

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Yeah, there was an elder at the church, at the

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Messianic congregation, and he was known as Bill the

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Calvinist. You know there's hardly any

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Calvinists in the church when he's called Bill the Calvinist. Are you there,

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Joe? Yes, I'm here. Okay, sorry if my laughter deafened you. Yeah, no, no, that's okay.

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Yeah, so it was funny, yes, exactly. But he was accepted there, and just we knew that he believed a little differently.

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But he was not forceful, he just shared certain things here and there with me.

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I think it was two books in particular, The Sovereignty of God by A. W.

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King, and Chosen by God by R. T.

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Sproul. Excellent books. Yeah, and these two books really were the convincers for me.

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But prior to that, it was basically books on ecclesiology, it was books on the church. I read books from J.

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Adams, and also John MacArthur, and I realized that there was something different in what they were presenting compared to what we were using as our model for ministry.

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Books like Rick Warren's Purpose -Driven Church, or Bill Hunt's.

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This was a church that had a megachurch, although it wasn't a megachurch itself, the ideas were certainly similar to megachurch ideology.

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And I just saw differences, and that really was what started to lead me in the direction of realizing that the differences that I was seeing with my eyes in the church had a doctrinal basis to them.

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Yeah, and one thing that I remember from the radio program hosted by that congregation when

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I was working for WMCA and 970 DJ in New Jersey, was that they believed in new extra -biblical revelation.

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Yeah. Yeah, divine revelation outside of the scripture. So I'm sure when you became convinced of the church in that regard, that got you somewhat uncomfortable, to say the least, remaining there.

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Well, yeah, and the direction that the church that I was in was going was more and more of an emphasis on signs and wonders and extra -biblical revelation.

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So that was involved as well, yes. And one thing

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I think we should make it clear, because people listening might think that there's some kind of polar opposite phenomenon with Calvinism and a love for the

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Jews and a passion to reach out to them with the gospel. People might even be surprised that Chosen People Ministries, a major messianic ministry in New York City, was actually founded through the outreach of Presbyterian evangelists in the 19th century.

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And even Mitch Glaser, their current president, is a five -point Calvinist, although he is a dispensationalist.

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He is a thoroughgoing Calvinist, and I don't know if he still is, but he was, for many years, a member of a

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Presbyterian church. Oh, that's interesting. So these things are not polar opposite.

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In fact, every church that loves the doctrines of sovereign grace should also have a love and a passion to be bringing the gospel to the

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Jewish people, because they know that God has an elect from out of every tribe and people and nation.

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So there should be a burden there. And it is odd, isn't it, Joe, that a

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Jew could come to Christ and reject unconditional election because of the fact that even in the

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Old Covenant, God had a peculiar people that he chose from out of the masses of humanity, not because of anything good within them, not because of any foreseen actions or decisions on their part, but just purely out of his love for a unique group of people that were unlovely, that did nothing and had nothing within them to deserve or warrant his love.

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They demonstrated disobedience throughout the entirety of the Old Testament and wound up crying out for the death of God's only son.

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But he still at that time, in that dispensation of time,

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God had chosen the nation of Israel out from among the other pagan nations.

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And yet when a Jew comes to Christ, there are a minority who are believers in the doctrines of sovereign grace, but it's just that, it's a minority.

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It seems like the overwhelming majority reject the doctrines of sovereign grace, and some of them are vehemently anti -reformed or anti -Calvinist.

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It really is odd, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It is. It's very ironic that here are a people that their scriptures, if there's one thing that the

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Old Testament teaches, it's God's election, and how they can understand that God passed over,

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God elected a people and passed over a people for centuries, but somehow worked differently,

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I guess. Maybe that's part of it. Part of the problem is dispensationalism, the idea, you know, that God worked differently in the

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New Covenant. But if we just see him working the same way, it ought to be very easy for a

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Jewish person to understand unconditional election. And just out of curiosity,

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I mean no disrespect to my charismatic and Pentecostal friends listening. I have many brothers in Christ who are charismatic and Pentecostal, but I am not myself.

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And I believe you also, when you became Reformed, you did abandon the concept of modern -day sign gifts and the charismatic movement attached to that.

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Well, certainly some of it, for sure. Being a

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Pentecostal, we believed, you know, that you had to speak another tongue as an evidence of being filled with the

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Holy Spirit, you know, things like that. So you actually, your church then took it that far, because not all charismatics take the sign gifts as a necessary sign of the indwelling of the

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Holy Spirit. The mainline Pentecostal denominations do, but your church actually agreed with the mainline

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Pentecostals on that. The first church that I attended, yes. Okay.

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Yeah, not the Messianic church. The Messianic church was more into sign, leading by sign, you know, looking for something, opening up the

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Bible, pointing and finding the verse, you know, and then, you know, that means something.

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That kind of sign -seeking. And that, yeah, all of that I certainly reject.

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How God birthed and His distribution of gifts, I'm not going to, I can't say.

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You know, He's sovereign, He can do whatever He wills.

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But as far as these items of man, yes, I certainly reject them.

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Well, you have come to a place where you and your congregation over there at Bread of Life Fellowship of Wayne, New Jersey, started this work.

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Tell our listeners something specifically about Bread of Life Fellowship. We are located in Wayne, New Jersey.

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We started out in 2003 as a home church. We met in homes for approximately two years, two and a half years, outgrew it, and since then have just been meeting in different locations.

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We were meeting at a hotel for a while, we had a building for a little while, and now we're meeting in another church building, which is very good for us because we're not really looking to have our own church building necessarily.

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It works very well, we're helping out another church by our presence being there, and we have a great relationship with them.

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The Lord has blessed the church with growth. We are presently at about 80 members and approximately 100 to 110 on a

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Sunday morning, and we love the Word of God. It's a great group of people, an elder -led congregation with a plurality of elders who love the

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Word of God. We utilize the London Baptist Confession of 1689 as our guide for understanding the

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Scriptures, and we're preaching through. I'm presently in a series preaching through the

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Gospel of Matthew. We go through books of the Bible, all of our elders are preaching through books of the

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Bible, and the Lord's been blessing. Adding to our number, baptisms, many marriages over the last few years, a lot of new babies in the church, so God's certainly been blessing us with many signs of life in our midst.

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Yeah, I just had the privilege to preach on text in Matthew when

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I was asked by the congregation where I'm a member to preach again. This was,

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I believe, my third time. I preached at the local

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Bethesda Mission in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which is basically a

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Christian homeless shelter for men and a ministry for addicts of all kinds and so on, men who have hit rock bottom and that kind of a thing.

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I have a heart for that because I had gone through not only a long period of time before my conversion, enslaved to drunkenness, but then a period of tragic backsliding that I was rescued out of and went to a ministry very similar to that in North Carolina, Hebron Colony Ministries, so I have a heart for that.

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But I preached on the parable of the wedding banquet, and that is quite a remarkable passage of Scripture because of the fact that it really is a summary of the entire history of redemption from the

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Old Testament to the New, and how Christ's enemies or those that claim to be the children of God persecuted not only the

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Old Testament saints and prophets, but all the way up through the New Testament with not only the persecution of the apostles,

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John the Baptist and the apostles, but obviously the persecution and crucifixion of Christ himself.

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But quite a remarkable passage, and I'm sure you're going to enjoy, if you haven't already hit that one in your series,

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I'm sure you're going to enjoy preaching through that. I haven't hit it yet, we just finished the parables in chapter 13.

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The parable of the sower, which is obviously the classic parable, the parable of the wheat and the tares, the parable of the seed and the leaven, and the dragnet, so they're great.

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I mean, they are really a wonderful opportunity to show what

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God is doing in the Church, even in the world and in the Church, and how He is saving and elects people.

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Yeah, well, that passage of the sower and the seed is so clearly revealing that when we evangelize, there is something different about the soils that makes those seeds take root and flourish and grow or wither and die.

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And it's such a clear example and demonstration of how not all humanity are equal.

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They're not on the same playing field. They're not all identical in their regard to a receptivity to the gospel.

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Amen. Absolutely. Well, when we come back from the break, we're going to go to our first break right now, we're going to get more into the exact subject that we had scheduled for today, and that is a local church's mission to rescue unborn children from infanticide.

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If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question regarding that topic, and we already have several people waiting to have their questions asked and answered by you,

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Joe. But if anybody would like to get in line and ask a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Please remember to give us your first name, city and state and country of residence if you live outside of the

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USA. And you may remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter that you're asking.

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Don't go away. We'll be right back with Dr. Joe Losardo, God willing, after these messages from our sponsors.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Arnsin. If you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours with about 90 minutes to go is

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Dr. Joseph LoSardo, who is a pastor, the senior pastor at Bread of Life Fellowship of Wayne, New Jersey.

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We are discussing a local church's mission to unborn children from infanticide.

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If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, our email address is chrisarnsin at gmail .com.

29:51

That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Joe, before I go to any of the questions that are waiting to be answered by you, tell us how the

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Bread of Life Fellowship got involved in outreach ministry to abortion clinics.

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Well, in New Jersey, we have a couple of clinics, or if you call them clinics.

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Yeah, that's really a horrible way to describe them. They're infanticide mills. Yeah, exactly.

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They're hardly clinics. They're hardly medical facilities. But there are a couple that do late -term abortions, abortions all the way up to,

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I believe, in Englewood, up to six months. So this is not far from me.

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It's in my neighborhood, about 15 -20 minutes away from our church.

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And the Lord sent a couple of men who had a burden for this in our church.

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We initially did not have a ministry to the abortion clinics, but there were a couple of men in the church who had that burden, which we came alongside of them and supported them.

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And we've been doing this, I think, about five years now, going out on Saturday mornings to preach the

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Gospel, to hold up signs, to try to plead with the men and women who were going in there to murder their children, to reconsider.

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And God's given us a real burden to be there, and to be a light, to be salt in the midst of a world that needs preserving, and be light in the midst of this darkness.

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I mean, this is a matter that's facing the church and the world today, and if the church doesn't stand up and be a light, and shine a light on this intense darkness, no one else will.

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This is something that is accepted, it's legal, and more and more we saw society being turned over, but it's through the preaching of truth and through the light that this darkness is exposed, and that's our burden.

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We want to shine a light on this dark area. And what have been the reactions from women going into the abortion centers, and also the reaction of those that are employed there?

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Well, at first when we started going, there was just one security guard that was posted at the front door.

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This is a clinic that is right on the street, so we have public sidewalks there.

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There was just one security guard, but as a result of our being there, we were going not with a lot people,

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I would say maybe five or six people from our church going regularly. What they did is they started to get these clinic, what they call clinic escorts, these volunteers that were there to kind of shield the ladies who are going in, the young girls who are going into the clinic, to keep them from hearing and seeing our signs or hearing us preach.

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So from the moment that someone drops them off near the clinic, from the moment they get out of the car, these escorts surround them and try to keep them from hearing the gospel.

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So that's been a challenge for us. As far as the reactions, certainly the people inside, the doctors, the nurses, the volunteers, they wish we were not there, obviously.

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We're, in a sense, we're getting in the way of their business and we're getting in the way of their politics.

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So that's their reaction. As far as the ladies going in, most try to ignore us, but we have had individuals turn around, come out, reconsider, choose life.

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Praise God. Oh yeah, absolutely. It's an amazing thing when something like that happens, and I've always said if it happens once, it's worth the years of ministry.

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But we've certainly seen it happen more than once. And then in addition to that, it's on a major road.

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So we're holding up signs, we're showing what is exactly going on in that building.

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So that anyone going, driving up that road, anyone walking by, hundreds, thousands of people drive by there and they know as a result of these signs that this is not just a medical center for women, as it says on the front, but that indeed innocent blood is being shed inside of those walls and babies are being murdered there.

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Yeah, isn't it interesting how those that are in favor of infanticide, either those that are the doctors murdering these unborn babies, or the women who are either having their babies murdered, or the feminists and liberals and leftists who are in favor of their alleged freedom to do that, isn't it interesting how they very rarely will use terms like abortion.

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They will say, I believe in a woman's right to choose. Well, choose what? Well, why don't you finish the sentence?

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And they don't call, typically, those trying to rescue those unborn babies, they typically don't refer to them as pro -life, they refer to them as anti -abortion or anti -choice even more frequently, because it obviously will make it look like you are a prehistoric

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Neanderthal chauvinist who are trying to rob women of making personal choices in their lives, but there's a difference between a woman having choices that she has the freedom to make and her taking it upon herself to remove the freedom of choice from a child within her womb by having it murdered.

37:04

Yeah, exactly. And also, ironically, while they're trying to basically shut us up or close us down or put up buffer zones that we're not allowed to speak in or walk through, you start to wonder who really is the one that's anti -choice here.

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To silence our voices, we're up here trying to plead with these women to say, hey, there is another way.

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There are ministries that will help you. A lot of times they don't realize. They go online, they

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Google abortion, they find them, they're caught off guard, they find themselves pregnant, often as a result of fornication, and the convenient decision is to kill the child.

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And they don't really even realize, in some cases, what they're doing. And we're up there pleading with them, this is life, and if God has entrusted you with a child in your womb, he will take care of you.

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We plead with them that there's a church that desires to help them, that will come alongside of them, and not to believe all the lies that the world believes about children, oh, they're expensive, or oh, they're a burden, or oh, your body is going to look this way for nine months, and all these things, these reasons that these young women have for making the selfish choice to murder their child, which is really a wretched choice.

38:49

Amen. And, well, I'm going to take a question from a first -time questioner,

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Christina in Asante, Minnesota, I'm assuming that's how you pronounce that city,

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I've never even heard of it before. It's either Asante or Asante, I'm assuming. Christina says, my question for Dr.

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Losardo is, do you think abortion is still legal in our country, because the majority of churches in our nation do not actually believe that abortion is murder?

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Since women having these abortions are not murderers, quote, quote, according to most churches, and these churches are training and teaching the flock, what is at the forefront, which is at the forefront of pro -life, of the pro -life movement?

39:36

The pro -life movement is not seeking to criminalize abortion, so how can we expect to end abortion if it is not actually a crime?

39:45

Very good question, and that is, as I said, Christina in Asante, Minnesota. Yeah, very good question.

39:53

Yeah, the question, can we lay the blame for the sins of society at the doorstep of the

40:00

Church? Well, not the real Church, not the

40:06

Church of the Firstborn, the invisible Church. Yeah, the visible Church has neglected this issue, has not spoken up, has not stood up, and for whatever reasons.

40:22

I mean, when we were faced with a challenge at Englewood, they were putting up a eight -foot buffer zone around the door, and we went to court, and we appealed to the churches in Englewood, saying, this is a law that's coming in your town, and will you come out to the meetings at the courthouse and raise your voice?

40:49

And sadly, not one church in the town of Englewood responded. One church responded that they would be praying for us, and that did.

40:58

No one showed up of all the churches we reached out to. So there is a negligence on the part of the visible

41:06

Church. But ultimately, this is a sin of society. The reality of the reason why abortion exists is because of sin.

41:17

Is the visible Church failing? Yes, but there are also God's people within the visible

41:24

Church that are standing up and are speaking the truth, and are instructing their people in the right way of defining life from the

41:38

Scripture. Psalm 139 verses 13 to 16 are being the classic verse.

41:45

Let me just read that here. Where David says, you formed me in my inward part, you knitted me together in my mother's womb.

41:53

I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works, my soul knows it well.

41:59

My frame was not hidden from you when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depth of the earth.

42:07

Your eyes saw my unformed substance. In your book were every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there were none of them.

42:18

We see time and again in the Scripture how God is the one who is forming you in your womb,

42:25

Isaiah 44, Jeremiah 1, verses 4 and 5. Psalm 22, 9 and 10 says, from my mother's womb you are my

42:33

God. So there is, even in the New Testament, we see John the

42:39

Baptist leaping in Elizabeth's womb. So it's very clear.

42:48

People say, well, this Bible doesn't address abortion specifically. No, it doesn't. Abortion is a wicked sin invented by man.

42:58

The Bible assumes from the beginning that a child is a child, that just because its location is a mother's womb where it's supposed to be protected, where it grows to the point where it becomes viable on its own, that that's a child.

43:16

And the Bible just assumes that that's a child. And does the Church need to talk more about this?

43:23

Absolutely. And we need to not turn our backs on this horrible sin of society.

43:33

And isn't the primary duty of the Church, although when we are providentially given rights to vote and we have politicians rise up in our midst, we should use every avenue of legality available to us to bring an end to abortion.

43:58

But isn't the primary goal, the primary function of the Church, to evangelize so that hearts are changed and that those that are new creations in Christ would then help us to basically transform the society.

44:15

I know that there are many Christians that are opposed to that notion that we are here to present the gospel to individuals, that they may be saved.

44:26

But at the same time, it is a natural by -product if a society is more and more heavily populated by new creatures in Christ, there will certainly be less babies being murdered in abortion mills and other things going on.

44:43

Absolutely. And that's really why we're out there. We often will say that. We try to make it clear, particularly to those escort volunteers, that this is not a political movement.

45:02

We're not here because we're Republicans. We're not here because we're pro -Trump. We don't put our hope in politics.

45:10

We're here for one reason, to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, because that's what changes hearts and changes lives.

45:17

So we praise God when women turn around, but we praise

45:23

God all the more if we know that that individual is turning around and turning to Christ.

45:30

Because if they just turn around and praise God they saved their baby, and we pray that God is working in their heart.

45:40

But ultimately, it's a changed heart that's going to truly have that child grow up in Christ.

45:51

And then you're absolutely right, Chris. It's through the changed hearts of individuals that brings a change to society.

46:02

We don't want to see that place closed down.

46:10

Yeah, in fact, there is hope for that occurring. I mean, this was quite a number of years ago.

46:15

This was in the 1980s, I believe it was. But in Lindenhurst, Long Island, I'm sure you're familiar with that,

46:24

Joe, since you're a native Long Islander. Yeah. There was an abortion clinic right on the corner of South Wellwood Avenue, and I can't remember the corner street right now.

46:39

It's the same corner street that the Evangelical Church of God is on. But anyway, it's escaped my mind.

46:48

I think it might be West High Street or something like that. I can't remember. But there was an abortion clinic there, and because of the fact of numerous pro -life activists picketing that place, it eventually shut down.

47:05

Praise God. So that was back in the 1980s. I say that just to give hope to those who think that they are involved in a hopeless cause.

47:21

Amen. Look, if people would get a hold of that, if churches would get a hold of that and realize that just the fact that the sheer numbers of people have an effect, if someone driving up, driving by, sees 30, 40, 50 people in front of a building, there's going to be an effect.

47:41

We know the ladies who go in and then come out, but we don't know how many people just drive by and say, you know what,

47:52

I'm not going in, just because of our presence. We have a listener in San Jose, California, Daniel, who says,

48:05

Thank you for discussing this very important and tragic topic.

48:11

Can you explain the severity of the abortion rate within the United States of America in order for the church to know how large of an opponent the church is facing?

48:22

Also, can you explain some of the steps that individual Christians as well as local churches could take so we can stand up against those in favor of abortion while still lovingly declaring the gospel?

48:36

Amen. Yeah, absolutely. It is statistics, just looking at statistics.

48:45

Here is the irony of this whole thing. Here's the tragedy of it. God creates the womb of the mother to be the place of the protection of the most innocent, the most needy, the most stressed, the most vulnerable of human beings, to be this place of protection for nine months.

49:13

What should be the safest place, what was created by God to be the safest place for the most vulnerable human being, has become the most dangerous.

49:28

Over 600 ,000 babies die every year in this country.

49:34

Since 1973, when abortion became illegal as a result of the

49:39

Roe v. Wade, where nine individuals, nine unelected individuals in our country, made a decision that has yet to be challenged by the most conservative of presidents, but nine unelected individuals made this decision to legalize infanticide.

50:01

Over 50 million, I believe the number is 55 or 56 million babies have been murdered.

50:09

The rate of death, the death rate of abortion is higher than the death rate of cancer or the death rate of heart disease.

50:17

Wow. One abortion, there's one abortion in every five live births, so 20 % of, if I have my numbers right, one abortion in every five live births.

50:33

So you're talking about a huge number. You're talking about wiping out a population of people.

50:40

And also, abortion tends to be more of a sin among the lower class, the needy, the less privileged.

50:54

So you're really removing a whole class of society. Think of the millions of people that would be with us today that are not as a result of this sin.

51:06

Yeah. In fact, I want to pick up right where we left off there, because that's a very interesting point, because a lot of people may be unaware of how

51:16

Planned Parenthood even began and what ideology was inherent to the founder,

51:26

Margaret Sanger. A lot of people, when I tell them these things, they are utterly shocked, because they had no idea.

51:36

And they look at me very often with a great measure of skepticism. They can't believe what I'm saying is true. But what we're going to return when we come back from our next break for our sponsors, we are going to return right where Joe left off.

51:54

And we still have a couple of you waiting to have your questions asked and answered. If you'd like to join those already waiting to have their questions asked and answered, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

52:05

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And by the way, Christina, I forgot to mention,

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We'll be shipping that out to you free of charge, but we need your full mailing address. Right now we just have your city and state,

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ship that new Bible out to you as soon as possible. Don't go away, God willing, we are going to be coming back right after these messages from our sponsors with more of Dr.

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Welcome back. This is Chris Zarnes. And if you just tuned us in, our guest today for the full two hours is

58:09

Dr. Joseph Lissardo, the pastor at Bread of Life Fellowship of Wayne, New Jersey.

58:15

And we are discussing a local church's mission to rescue unborn children from infanticide. If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

58:26

That's chrisarnsen at gmail .com. And please give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

58:33

USA. If it's about a personal and private matter that you are asking about, then you can remain anonymous if you wish.

58:41

But other than that, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence. Before I return to my discussion with Dr.

58:47

Lissardo, I would like to give you some important announcements from some of our sponsors.

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The Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, in cooperation with Long Island Spurgeon Fellowship, present the

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Dr. Tony Costa, who I just mentioned, is going to be also speaking at the Sunday morning service at 11 at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Medford, Long Island, New York.

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And for more details and directions to Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Medford, New York, call 631 -696 -5711, 631 -696 -5711.

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And you can also go to hopereformedli .net, hopereformedli, standing for longisland .net.

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Then coming up in November from the 17th through the 18th, the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals is conducting their annual

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Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town, Pennsylvania.

01:00:49

The speakers include Kent Hughes, Peter Jones, Tom Nettles, Dennis Cahill, and Scott Oliphant.

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The theme is For Still Our Ancient Foe, a reference to Satan from Martin Luther's classic

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Reformation hymn, A Mighty Fortress. If you would like to join me at this conference where I intend to have an

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Iron Sharpens Iron exhibitors booth, please go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org,

01:01:15

click on events, and then click on Quaker Town Conference on Reformed Theology. And again, that's from November 17th through the 18th.

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Then following that, in January from the 17th through the 20th of 2018, the

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G3 Conference returns to Atlanta, Georgia on the theme, Knowing God, a

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Biblical Understanding of Discipleship. On the 17th of January, that will be an exclusively

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Spanish -speaking edition of the conference, and from the 18th to the 20th will be an

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English -speaking edition of the conference, featuring Stephen Lawson, Votie Baucom, Phil Johnson, Keith Getty, H .B.

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Charles Jr., Tim Challies, Josh Bice, James White, Tom Askell, Anthony Methenia, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Paul Tripp, Todd Friel, Derek Thomas, and Martha Peace.

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01:02:27

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01:02:42

Last but not least, this is a very important announcement that is important but very uncomfortable for me to make.

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01:06:05

Now, we are returning to our discussion with Dr. Joseph Lissardo, former elder in a large charismatic messianic congregation in New Jersey who earned his

01:06:15

PhD in molecular biology of cancer at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the

01:06:20

Bronx, New York. And currently he is the pastor at Bread of Life Fellowship of Wayne, New Jersey, which is a

01:06:27

Reformed Baptist congregation. And we are discussing a local church's mission to rescue unborn children from infanticide.

01:06:36

And our email address if you have a question is chrisarnsen at gmail .com. C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

01:06:43

And Dr. Lissardo, before we go on to any other questions from our listeners, just before the break, we're talking about how the majority of women having their unborn babies murdered are those within, those most stricken with poverty, those who are of the

01:07:07

African American race primarily. I mean, I hate using that term because of the fact that I believe we have only one race, the human race, but so people understand what

01:07:16

I'm talking about in our common day vernacular. Those that are black are more prone to have abortions.

01:07:26

And those babies, those unborn babies who are black are much more prone to be the victims of those abortions.

01:07:34

And that's largely due to the brainwashing of society by white liberals primarily.

01:07:41

And I was just about to mention before the break that there is a

01:07:48

DVD that I think everyone listening, or I know everyone listening should have a copy of.

01:07:53

It's called MAFA 21. M is in Michael, A, A, F is in Frank, A, 21.

01:07:59

You can go to mafa21 .com to find out more about it. That's M is in Michael, A, A, F is in Frank, A, 21 .com.

01:08:07

And that documents the rise of Planned Parenthood, which was founded by Margaret Sanger, a racist whose agenda it was to basically rid the earth of, well, especially the

01:08:26

United States, of those within the black race and other minorities, which she viewed as nothing more than a burden upon society and a drain on our resources rather than contributors to our society.

01:08:41

She had Nazis writing for her magazine prior to World War II, I mean literal members of the

01:08:47

Third Reich. She spoke at Ku Klux Klan rallies.

01:08:54

People are jumping up and down screaming about Donald Trump not making a clear denunciation of the

01:09:04

Klan and other white supremacist groups. But Margaret Sanger was openly in favor of this ideology.

01:09:14

And yet liberals today view her as a hero of women's rights. Hillary Clinton was thrilled and honored to receive the

01:09:22

Margaret Sanger Award from Planned Parenthood. And it's amazing, utterly amazing, that more is not said on this issue, especially by conservatives.

01:09:35

Wouldn't you agree that this is utterly amazing that you don't hear this drumbeat every day on Fox News and other places?

01:09:40

Because many people are still totally unaware of these facts. Yeah, yeah, it's terribly tragic and ironic, isn't it, that liberals are not, you know, to be a liberal,

01:09:59

I mean, listen to the verse, Proverbs 31 verses 8 and 9. I think this would, this is true liberalism, okay, or what it ought to be.

01:10:12

Proverbs 31, 8, 9, open your mouth for the mute, for the rights of all who are destitute.

01:10:19

Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

01:10:26

Well, who are the most poor and who are the most needy? Who are the ones who are most destitute, who are being called to open up our mouths, to be a voice for the voiceless?

01:10:38

I mean, a true liberal ought to be pro -life. That's the real irony of it.

01:10:47

And that's really what I try to do, is challenge liberals in opening up their mind to what they're doing.

01:10:53

Are they standing up for the weakest in society? Yes, and I think the most despicable people out there who are radically in favor of the murder of unborn children in the womb are those that say,

01:11:14

I am personally opposed to abortion because of my religious convictions or any other reason, but I do not believe that I have the right to impose my personal views upon women in regard to this.

01:11:35

This is a matter between her, her doctor, and her God. Now, I think that is the most wretched position that you could have.

01:11:44

It makes my skin crawl when I hear people say it, because in that specific instance, you have people who know it is murder, and yet they're saying, but I'm not going to impose my views against the murder of unborn children on pregnant women.

01:12:00

If they want to murder the babies, the humans that they're carrying within their womb, that should be their right to murder those children.

01:12:09

Of course, they'd never say it that way, but that's what they are, in fact, stating in other words.

01:12:15

Am I right? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, so when you hear politicians make that claim, they're really just trying to appease people on both sides of the issue, which makes it more despicable.

01:12:28

Exactly. That's all it is. It's a cop -out. When you break it down, you realize how foolish it is.

01:12:36

It's basically the way you just said it. Oh, I personally don't believe in murder, but it's okay for someone else to kill, which is ridiculous.

01:12:47

Yeah, I mean, the liberals would not give a pass to anyone saying in the 19th century, well,

01:12:55

I might be personally opposed to slavery, but I'm not going to make a problem for my neighbor who has 500 slaves on his plantation.

01:13:04

That's his right to do that. That's his personal choice. I personally don't like it, but I'm not going to put an end to his freedom to have those slaves.

01:13:17

I mean, there's no difference. In fact, you cannot help but draw the conclusion, if you believe that babies in the womb are actual human beings, that the murder of those babies is even far worse a crime against humanity than even slavery was, as evil as slavery was.

01:13:34

Amen. Absolutely. And I believe it was Pearl F.

01:13:40

Buck said, the test of a civilization is the way it cares for its helpless members.

01:13:46

So who is, let's define the most helpless in our society? Is it not the infant?

01:13:53

Is it not the unborn? And our civilization is gravely failing in this sense.

01:14:01

We have a listener from, let's see,

01:14:07

White Plains, New York, RJ in White Plains, New York, who says, I'm not asking this question out of fear of the ramifications, but just for educational purposes, what legal risks do churches and Christian individuals face when they are picketing abortion clinics or trying to rescue those babies from being murdered when they approach women entering and exiting those institutions?

01:14:37

Now, that reminds me, RJ's question reminds me also, and perhaps you could combine answering his question with a case that you're aware of, we will remain as anonymous as you believe that we need to in this regard, or I should say, we will allow the participants to remain anonymous is what

01:14:56

I mean, as much as you think is necessary. But there is a church facing legal persecution for their work that is really identical to what you're doing.

01:15:11

If you could answer RJ's question and then follow up with what I was just speaking about.

01:15:17

Yeah, there is, actually in RJ State of New York, the

01:15:23

Attorney General has recently, I believe it was in June of 2017, brought up this case against 14 defendants.

01:15:38

There are 110 alleged infractions of certain ordinances, some of which are illegal ordinances, others of them are.

01:15:51

There may be some genuine concern. It's not against a church, but it is against individuals from various churches, although some churches are named in this case.

01:16:08

Basically, one particular abortion clinic in Jamaica, Choices in Jamaica, has filed this complaint of what they call extremely aggressive behavior.

01:16:23

Now, I can't specifically speak to anything that goes on there, because I personally have never been there, and is it possible that there's some inappropriate activity going on, blocking, using your body to block people?

01:16:41

You know, this kind of thing has historically gone on at abortion clinics around the country in the past, and I do think

01:16:50

Christians have some realm of accountability to do things rightly, to preach the gospel, to love the people that we're preaching to.

01:17:04

We're not there for political purposes, we're not there to in any way threaten, although I think some of these charges are ridiculous.

01:17:21

Like, for example, one of the examples is an example of a threat is saying to the individual coming in, let me see here, where is it?

01:17:40

While you're looking, I'm going to announce our email address again. It's chrisarnsen at gmail .com, c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com.

01:17:49

If you have another question for Dr. Joe Lasardo, particularly about his own congregation's mission to rescue unborn children from slaughter in infanticide mills, and if you have a personal and private question that you'd like to ask about, you may remain anonymous, but if it's a general question on this subject, please give us your first name, city and state, and country of residence if you live outside the

01:18:18

USA. Dr. Lasardo, did you find it? Yeah, yeah, this is it. So the case says they make a death threat to the escorts, and then this is an example of a death threat saying you can die at any moment.

01:18:34

Now that talks about something taken out of context. Yeah, that's like an evangelism slogan, like, where will you spend eternity if you die, don't you realize?

01:18:43

Anyone can die at any moment. You can go out, you can be hit by a car. I mean, those are the kinds of things we say all the time, yet they're taking it as a threat.

01:18:52

One time I held up a sign that said something along the lines of, sin deserves judgment.

01:18:57

And it was an evangelistic comment, sin deserves judgment. And an immediate person came up to me and said, are you suggesting that violence, you know, are you advocating violence against those who participate in the sin of abortion?

01:19:18

And of course, you know, I have to explain. So things are certainly taken out of context. But to answer the question, we can't be intimidated.

01:19:27

This case in the state of New York is, as far as I'm, as far as I know, the first one, and I'm sure we're going to see many cases like this all over the country, we can't be intimidated.

01:19:42

This is something that is clearly near the heart of God. God is a stronghold for the needy and distressed.

01:19:51

God is not indifferent to this sin. The blood of the innocent is crying out.

01:19:58

And if the Church does not stand up, who will? Who's going to be, who's going to raise their voice, who's going to be a voice to the voiceless if the

01:20:07

Church becomes intimidated? So, you know, yes, is there a risk? Yes. There are attorneys that are giving their, of themselves, to take these kinds of cases on, to preserve the freedom of speech that we have, to speak up.

01:20:28

We can't be intimidated. This is how the enemy, the enemy is at work in this. And we need to make that stand.

01:20:37

We need to stand up. We need to call it what it is. We need to say that it's murder. And we need to go.

01:20:44

We need to not be cowering when it comes to these kinds of things. Find a,

01:20:50

I would encourage pastors and elders of churches, or perhaps if you have a burden for this and you're a member of a local church, to go to your pastor, go to your elder, and see, look for a

01:21:05

Planned Parenthood in your neighborhood, or an abortion mill in your neighborhood. And say,

01:21:11

I just want to go, I want to hang out, I'd like to take a few people from the Church. And even if you don't preach, even if you're not comfortable preaching, hold up signs.

01:21:19

This is something we tell our people all the time. Anyone, everyone can do something. If you stand there, ladies, if you go, you'll have opportunity to speak one -on -one with someone, with another lady going in, to try to appeal to them, to share the gospel with them.

01:21:39

Others can just hold up signs. You're raising an awareness of what is going on. You're calling it what it is.

01:21:46

Innocent blood. I hold up a sign. It's very simple. It says, innocent blood shed here, in big block letters, so that everyone driving by can see what's happening.

01:21:56

This is something that everyone can do. Anyone and everyone can be involved. And we need, we can't back down out of fear of legal ramification.

01:22:06

If we do, then we're going to find this right taken away from us. Now, where in the legal procedure is this church right now in regard to this lawsuit they're facing?

01:22:21

I don't know the details. Right now, I believe the case is open, and the individuals who are named in the case are not permitted to speak about it.

01:22:35

There are the actual cases against 14 defendants, but it names dozens of other individuals and churches, including actually,

01:22:47

Chris, a former church that you were a member at. You would know what I'm speaking about.

01:22:53

Including your former pastor. I believe you were there when the present pastor was.

01:23:00

Yes, I know exactly what. Well, I mean, everybody knows who listens to my program that the congregation is

01:23:07

Grace Reform Baptist Church of Long Island. And I've had my former pastor there on my show, in fact, even not long ago, speaking about one of the books that he has written.

01:23:21

In fact, the last book was on the theodicy, the defense of the goodness of God in light of an evil world filled with suffering.

01:23:32

But that wasn't the title. That was the theme of the book. But yeah, I'm sure that he would not mind me mentioning that, since everybody who listens regularly to my show knows that church.

01:23:43

Knows that, yeah. Yeah, so the existing pastors named, I mean, there's a number of different people.

01:23:49

There are some members from our church named in this as well. Where it is at right now,

01:23:55

I don't know. I'm sure that someone is defending them and standing up for truth.

01:24:05

If it's available online for those that might be interested, you could find it right on the

01:24:11

Attorney General. It's the Attorney General Eric T. Schneiderman. Eric T.

01:24:19

Schneiderman, the Attorney General of New York State. And I'm sure if you just put in lawsuits, it's called the

01:24:28

Lawsuit to End the Persistent Harassment of Women Entering the Women's Health Clinic in Queens.

01:24:35

And that's all available online if they want to read more about it. Yes, using tactics no different than those used by liberals throughout history, at times who were involved in noble causes like the equality of all men and women regardless of race.

01:24:54

But these are tactics that the liberals championed in decades past.

01:25:03

And yet now, when those involved in those using those same tactics are pro -life, they have become villains and monsters.

01:25:11

Isn't that interesting? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's funny too, because you can actually click on, they have a place where you can see a protest where supposedly this kind of aggressive behavior is going on.

01:25:25

And if that's the best they have, I don't know. I don't know what to say. I saw at least one of those videos.

01:25:33

Absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, exactly. And that's the bottom line. They want to shut us up.

01:25:40

Most likely, they know in these kinds of situations, these things are going to be struck down. Sometimes what happens is at the local level, the law is upheld.

01:25:52

But then upon appeal to a higher court, the higher court recognizes this is an issue of freedom of speech.

01:25:59

This is an issue of the Constitution, which gives personal right, and the lower court's decision is overturned.

01:26:06

That happens quite a bit as well. Just out of curiosity, has the ACLU actually ever come to the defense of pro -life groups, to your knowledge?

01:26:16

Because they have, they'll come to the defense, even though they're liberals and leftists, they'll come to the defense of Klansmen and Nazis.

01:26:24

But for some reason, conservative Christians are usually not their clients. Yeah, I don't know.

01:26:30

I don't know. That would be a good question to know if that's happened. I'm not sure. Well, we have to go to our final break right now, and we'll pick up where we left off when we return,

01:26:39

God willing. If anybody else would like to join the others who have had questions for Dr.

01:26:45

Joe Losarto, if you want to get online, there's just a couple of people waiting right now. Our email address is chrizarnsen at gmail .com,

01:26:52

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01:27:01

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01:33:39

This is Chris Arnzen, if you just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. Our guest today for the full two hours, with about 25 minutes to go, is

01:33:48

Dr. Joseph LoSardo, Pastor of Bread of Life Fellowship of Wayne, New Jersey. We are addressing a local church's mission to rescue unborn children from infanticide.

01:33:57

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question of your own, now is the time to do it, because we're rapidly running out of time, and our email address is chrisarnzen at gmail .com.

01:34:06

c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com. And we have a listener in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Bibi, who asks, can you give our listeners your estimation of the extreme value of visual aids in the fight against abortion?

01:34:25

Very good question, and I assume Bibi is referring to vivid, graphic, full -color photographs of babies that have been murdered in the womb, and have been dismembered.

01:34:38

Things that are shocking for all of us, who we very often might see even our brothers and sisters in Christ recoil in disgust, and some of them even get angry with us, even though they might be pro -life, because they'll say, oh, that's not necessary, is it?

01:34:56

But when I think about how the world was convinced of the Holocaust, the way that the world primarily was convinced that Hitler did indeed have

01:35:07

Jews and others round up in consecration camps,

01:35:13

I can't even say the word, where they were horribly mistreated, starved, and thrown into enormous pits, their corpses thrown into enormous pits by the thousands, and just treated in inhuman ways.

01:35:32

The way that they discovered that this was a reality was through film, seeing it with your own eyes. But if you could comment on that.

01:35:40

Yeah, absolutely. The photographs and the depictions of the doctors who formally performed abortions, these kinds of things are very helpful as far as convincing people of the reality of the horror of it.

01:36:01

Like you said, a picture really does have a tremendous effect in that way.

01:36:08

I do know some Christians who would prefer not to use that.

01:36:14

They might see it as sensationalizing or whatever, and that's certainly up to them.

01:36:20

We try to encourage freedom in our outreaches. We want to have as many

01:36:25

Christians with their own personal convictions going out.

01:36:31

Some just hold up verses of scripture, so it varies. But certainly that's helpful as far as opening up people's eyes to the reality of what's going on there.

01:36:43

Yeah, well it's hard to imagine how you can sensationalize the murder of unborn children in the millions, because sensationalizing usually means that you're exaggerating the importance of something.

01:36:56

You could hardly exaggerate the importance of this. Right, exactly. Maybe that's a poor word, but I understand

01:37:05

Christians with that conviction, and like I said, Christians will vary.

01:37:12

I believe they're useful and helpful, yeah. Yeah, well I think for the very reasons that I stated, that the most effective way that humanity became aware of the truth of the

01:37:25

Holocaust was through seeing it with their own eyes. And it's interesting, a very good friend of mine who led me to Christ 30 years ago, she went to a t -shirt company to have t -shirts made that had a beautiful picture of an unborn baby in the womb on the front of the t -shirt, and it said life in her design.

01:37:53

And on the back of the t -shirt it had a murdered child, a photograph that she wanted to put on there, an actual photograph of a murdered unborn baby, and murder on the back.

01:38:07

And the t -shirt company that she first went to, she's still on a mission to get this done, the t -shirt company would refuse to do it because the graphic artist could not even look at the pictures.

01:38:19

Now I don't know if this was for or against abortion, but if she is against abortion, you have to wonder why.

01:38:27

Why can't you look at that? Because this is most often referred to as a routine surgery or operation, and if this was just the removal of a kidney or something like that, or I wouldn't recoil in horror seeing a picture of a kidney or a tumor or whatever else might be removed from someone's body in a surgery.

01:38:57

And I know that my listeners may get tired of me saying this because I've repeated it many times, but I don't understand why television networks like Fox News, who are claiming to be conservative and pro -life in the majority, why aren't they airing films of abortions at least once a month, or especially during an election cycle, like during a primary race or even any other election race.

01:39:31

If you want people to vote intelligently with an education, why not show a film of an abortion?

01:39:39

You could show them at different stages. You could show them in the earlier stages, all the way up through the late -term abortions.

01:39:46

Why don't people show these? And the liberals have no excuse at all because they are saying that this is not a murder.

01:39:55

This is not anything that is anything other than a surgery or a medical procedure.

01:40:05

I can remember when Pat Buchanan was running for president on the

01:40:12

Reform Party ticket back in the 90s. He was a guest on a program, and I called in the radio program, and I asked

01:40:20

Pat Buchanan the very thing that I am wondering about now.

01:40:25

I said, Pat, why aren't there more conservatives showing films of abortions or demanding that they be shown on television, on major networks, when there is an election going on?

01:40:37

And Pat Buchanan, the poster boy for conservativism and poster boy allegedly for pro -life, he said, oh, we wouldn't want to do that.

01:40:45

And I said, why? Well, that would be like televising a gruesome execution. I said, that's my point.

01:40:53

But thank you, BB, for providing that excellent question.

01:41:01

In fact, we didn't really, now that I'm looking back at Daniel's question from San Jose, California, his last question that I don't think that we fully addressed, he said, can you explain some of the steps that individual

01:41:15

Christians as well as local churches could take so we could stand up against those in favor of abortion?

01:41:23

Can you give a summary of a guide on how you and the

01:41:28

Bread of Life Fellowship did this? Yeah, it's really very simple. Like I said earlier, just go to your pastor, or if you are a pastor, look around in your neighborhood.

01:41:45

There's going to be something. There's going to be a Planned Parenthood. There's going to be some kind of clinic or something where this is going on.

01:41:56

You want to generally look for something that's on public property as opposed to private property, because if there's a big private parking lot, then you can't really, you have to kind of stay outside.

01:42:10

But even if that's the case, you can find places where you can go, very simply, make up some signs, or you can buy signs from various ministries online, or have some signs made up, printed for you, you know, on your own, and just go out.

01:42:34

That's really it. There's really no, you know, it's like anything. It's like going out and preaching the

01:42:39

Gospel. You have an evangelism ministry, you go out, you hand out tracts, right?

01:42:45

Well, it's the same thing, but you do this in front of the abortion clinic. Not a difficult thing at all to get started.

01:42:53

We have CJ from Lyndon Hearst, Long Island, New York, who says, Do you have any words of comfort to women who have had abortions and have come to repentance over the issue, but are haunted by the sin that they have committed, perhaps multiple times, meaning the murder of their unborn child or children?

01:43:13

Yes, amen. And by the grace of God, we have in our church a number of ladies who've gone through this in the past, and some who come out regularly to minister, to intercede, and to sound the alarm to these young ladies who are making the same choice that they made years ago, just to warn them.

01:43:44

Yeah, the only comfort we have for any sin is the

01:43:50

Lord Jesus Christ and the forgiveness that He offers at the cross. And that forgiveness is complete.

01:43:56

When Jesus bowed His head and said, It is finished, the sin of every single sin of every single individual who believed in Him was born, and the wrath for that sin, received the guilt of that sin, paid for, and we can rest in absolute, utter forgiveness, and know that this sin, as well as all of our sins, are completely forgiven, and we can rest in that.

01:44:27

And I know of no other comfort. That's the blessing of our faith, Chris, you know, is that no matter how wicked we might have been, and we're all wicked, we're all wicked in our own ways, to know that our sin is forgiven, and Christ is the only one who has, who guarantees that.

01:44:51

You know, the other world won't tell you nothing you gotta do to be saved. Christ gives

01:44:57

His forgiveness freely to all who believe in Him. So I would just encourage anyone who has gone through this sin to recognize it as such, confess it as such, but don't end there.

01:45:10

Receive the Lord Jesus Christ, receive the forgiveness that He offers at the cross, in His death, in His burial, and receive the freedom that He offers in the resurrection, and know that that's for you.

01:45:31

Amen. And I remember as a teenager, are you there,

01:45:37

Joe? Yeah. Okay, I heard something that sounded like a disconnect there. I remember as a teenager, one of my friends had impregnated a young lady on several occasions, and she had abortions on all of the initial occasions, the initial of several pregnancies.

01:46:00

She had those babies murdered. Of course, in her mind, that's not what she was doing, but even through pressure of my friend, who was the biological father of those babies, and the reason that she had the child during the last pregnancy that she had while still seeing this young man, who was my friend, she had it because the doctor said, if you have another abortion, you may never be able to conceive a child again in your life.

01:46:37

Now, it's interesting that this kind of thing isn't well known to women, that you're not only murdering a child in the womb, but women are being put at great risk regarding their own capacity to reproduce, to procreate, and it's ironic that the pro -abortion or pro -infanticide movement goes under the guise of women's reproductive rights.

01:47:11

Many of these women are being robbed of their reproductive abilities through abortion. Have you heard anything about those statistics at all?

01:47:21

No, no, I don't know specifics on that, but certainly it is something that we often need to raise our voices about.

01:47:31

I'll tell you, they're not letting the ladies that go in there know these things.

01:47:36

They're not showing them a sonogram, because they know.

01:47:42

They know once the mother sees that child that there's going to be an immediate emotion of attachment that builds in, that God builds into us.

01:47:54

God builds into mothers to love their children, to protect their children. The problem is there's a disconnect.

01:48:01

They really don't believe this is a baby. That's why these ministries that offer free sonograms for women who change their minds or who are at least considering an abortion, one of the greatest things they can do is show them a picture of their baby so that they know, hey, this is a baby.

01:48:20

There's a heart, there are fingers, there are hands, there are arms and legs that move, and there's a head and there are eyes and all of these things.

01:48:30

And once they see it a lot of times, I don't know the specific statistics, but I do know that many change their mind about having an abortion when they see, but they're not going to do that in the clinic.

01:48:42

If you ask them, they're not going to do it. They don't offer those services because their mission is to murder.

01:48:50

You know, one of the areas where even some in the pro -life movement or in the periphery of the pro -life movement cave in to the so -called pro -choicers is that they will say, well,

01:49:07

I'm against abortion unless it involves rape, incest, or the jeopardy of the life of the

01:49:15

If you could, as a Christian, and as a Christian minister, respond to that or those arguments.

01:49:23

Yeah, well, once you allow it for anything, then you're caving in on the idea that this is not a human being, that this is not a child.

01:49:35

Since when in any other situation, say a born my daughter, okay, or I don't know, since when could someone else, another human being outside of Christ who took on himself the sin of the world, how can one human being, why should one human being pay for the sin of another human being?

01:50:06

So really at the end of the day, rape and abortion are wrong for the very same reason. You know, so it's actually hurts our argument when these politicians say, well, for rape and incest,

01:50:21

I believe it should be allowed because it makes our case inconsistent.

01:50:28

If this is a human being, then it has a right life. And that's really where it needs to be argued at.

01:50:35

Even politically, laws, I believe, there are no laws on the book that define the beginning of life.

01:50:44

And I believe that there are some politicians that are working on some legislation to define life, to define the beginning of life as conception.

01:50:54

If we could do that, then life is protected. Life is protected by the 14th Amendment. So that's why it's very important that this whole rape and incest thing, while we could certainly feel for the individual and minister to that person, why would it be even considered that we take the life of an innocent for the sake of the guilty who committed the crime?

01:51:21

It just doesn't make any sense. Now, in regard to a woman's life being at risk, it's interesting how they used to say that.

01:51:31

Now they have devolved into making it merely the health of the woman.

01:51:39

Now, that could mean almost anything. That could mean that she's depressed post -delivery, or she gains too much weight, or she whatever.

01:51:55

They have made the word meaningless in regard to the risk. But if you're talking about conservative

01:52:02

Christians talking to each other, when it comes to a woman's life really being at risk, how do you as a minister respond to that?

01:52:12

Because I have heard that an abortion will not do anything to further enhance the safety of a pregnant woman, and that there are ways, even if the odds of the child surviving are very minimal to none, to at least evoke a premature delivery or something, which where the intention is not to murder the baby.

01:52:45

That's not the intention. The intention is to save the woman's life, because there is truly a medical problem that may cause the mother's death.

01:52:56

But the butchering of a baby in her womb is not any kind of a procedure that would ensure or even improve the risks of her surviving.

01:53:11

Exactly, exactly. So this is a reality. In fact, this happened with two families in our church where the mothers were diagnosed with gestational diabetes, and their life was in danger, and the baby was carried to about 28 or 30 weeks or something along those lines.

01:53:33

And you're right, at that point the baby is induced, the baby is born, and everything medically possible is done.

01:53:42

And in both cases, there are two young ladies now in this world.

01:53:50

And we thank God for technology, because who knows years ago what would have happened in such cases.

01:53:58

But we thank God that technology now can save the babies and the mothers as well.

01:54:06

Yeah, that's all I really have to say about that. Well, I'd like you to have about three minutes to summarize what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today regarding our subject.

01:54:18

Okay, sure. Proverbs 24, verses 11 and 12, says this.

01:54:23

It says, Rescue those who are being taken away to death. Hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter.

01:54:32

If you say, Behold, we did not know this, does not he who weighs the heart perceive it?

01:54:38

Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it? And will you not repay man according to his work?

01:54:47

This is a challenge that we have as God's people, to step out, to be a voice for the voiceless, to raise our voice for the mute, to stand up for those who are in distress and those that are needy.

01:55:04

The neediest individuals in our society need us.

01:55:11

They need us to go. They need us to be out on the street. They need us to raise our voices, to rescue those who are being taken away to death, to stand in the way.

01:55:24

We can't say, Behold, I didn't know this, because we're gonna, God's gonna, God weighs our heart, and He knows that the excuse of,

01:55:33

Well, I didn't know, is not going to work at the end, at the judgment. So let's be who we're called to be.

01:55:41

Let's be the Church. Step out. Go out. Be a light in the darkness.

01:55:47

Where sin abounds, there much more does grace abound. We know that that's true. Why is that not true in front of every abortion clinic in our country?

01:55:57

Why is sin abounding? I know of no darker place in our country than the abortion mills, if you think about it.

01:56:07

These drug houses, whatever you want to say, one of the darkest places, if not the darkest place that exists in our society, are these abortion mills.

01:56:20

Why is not grace abounding? Why is not the light shining at these dark places?

01:56:26

And I realize it's uncomfortable. I realize, you know, there are realities. We have Church members who've had abortion.

01:56:34

But the point is, we need to stand up, we need to speak the truth, we need to step out, we need to be salt, we need to be light, and we need to go.

01:56:44

Because the test of a civilization is the way it cares for its most helpless members, and the test of a

01:56:50

Church is how are we caring for the most helpless members in our community?

01:56:56

Are we loving our neighbor? The babies in the womb are our neighbor, and we need to love our neighbor, and speak up and stand up and do whatever we can to strongly support life.

01:57:13

And I would encourage pastors, and I would encourage Christians to do what they can to do so.

01:57:20

Well, I know that your website is BOLFellowship .org. That's B -O -L, which stands for Bread of Life.

01:57:28

B -O -L -Fellowship .org. Any other contact information that you care to give? Sure, yes.

01:57:35

Our toll -free number is 1 -866 -38 -BREAD.

01:57:40

That's 1 -866 -38 -B -R -E -A -D. And yeah, the website has our information.

01:57:51

If you're in the New Jersey, New York area, we'd love to see you come out and visit us at our church.

01:57:57

If you'd like some help, maybe with your local congregation, as far as starting up an abortion ministry or a gospel preaching ministry at the abortion mill in your area, we'll be happy to help you do that.

01:58:13

So please feel free to contact us, send us an email through our website, or give us a call.

01:58:20

We'll be happy to help with any of that. Well, thank you, Dr. Joe Losarto. If you could hold on the line, because I want to schedule you for another interview in the future.

01:58:28

So if you could hold on for a minute. Sure. And I want everybody, I want to thank everybody who listened today, especially those who wrote in.

01:58:36

Those of you who are still too intimidated to ask a question of Dr. Losarto, I hope that you reach out to him on your own time through email or by phone.

01:58:48

And I thank especially those who took the time to write in questions today. And I thank

01:58:53

Dr. Losarto, obviously, for being my guest, and also Reverend Buzz Taylor for being my co -host, who had to leave early.

01:59:00

But I hope that you all always remember, that includes all of you who have been involved in abortions, whether it is your own child, or perhaps the child of, or the children of others that you helped encourage women to murder, or perhaps you are an abortionist yourself.

01:59:22

Perhaps you're a doctor that has performed this horrible crime. Well, I want you to always remember for the rest of your lives, that Jesus Christ is a far greater